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/pol/ - Politically Incorrect



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I used to buy the anti-smoking 'science', and thought only an idiot would smoke! Why would someone inhale burning plant matter? It just seemed stupid. How ignorant was I! I never realized that maybe they smoked it because it had benefits, only deduced it was because they were "addicted". Never having tried it myself, that was that.
Then, to cut a long story short, a series of events unfolded that challenged this perception in graduate school.

I found out that ALL anti-tobacco science rested on (weak) epidemiological studies. The further I dug, the more I was amazed. I found the works of William Whitby, an actual medical doctor, that knew of this years ago and railed against the anti-tobacco science of his day.
I was STILL convinced that tobacco was bad for you though. However, what pushed me into the event horizon was seeing the experimental studies (hard science), to that very day (and this very day still!) that showed that scientists were incapable of inducing cancer with tobacco smoke!
Now, I was amazed and I did further research into the pharmalogical properties of the tobacco smoke, and realized it wasn't just "plant matter" after all, this plant matter contained hundreds of bioactive compounds that were beneficial, and even life-extending (note, 75% of all supercentarians were smokers).

Once you see the case for yourself, you will realize that the emperor of anti-smoking "science" has no clothes! It is an invented pseudoscience much like man-made climate change.
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Anti-tobacco "science" began as a moral crusade where people were trying to demonize it through dishonesty under the guise of science. The first "hard" study, did involve dogs, however, it was proved to be patently falsified, as admitted under oath by researchers involved.
After the anti-tobacco crusaders realized the hard science was not on their side, they switched to soft epidemiological studies, that intentionally would provide a result they were looking for.

The government gains control, a pretense for further taxation.
Moreover, the enhanced cognition yielded by tobacco use is despised by those with power.
Scientists gain funding.
Smoke-haters gain a world filled with less smoking.

Eventually, even well meaning scientists bought the lie, simply because of the "overwhelming" amount of evidence, without realizing that this mountain of evidence was all baseless and not predicated on any hard science (there is so much of it, they took for granted that there had to be something behind it), eventually carrying on the flawed non-randomized epidemiological work of their dishonest predecessors.
Also, their funding is largely dependent on vehement anti-smoking organizations like the American Lung Association, which will cease funding them generous grants if they provide epidemiological evidence to the contrary (as was the case with the Japanese Paradox).
>>
Now for the science.
Examine it for yourself.
Again, to this very date scientists have been UNABLE to induce cancer in rodents using tobacco! This is not cherry-picking, all experimental studies show the same result!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9608635

>No statistically significant increase in the incidence of malignant lung tumors was seen in either species as a result of smoke exposure, a finding that does not agree with the results of epidemiological studies in humans. Possible reasons for this lack of correlation are given.

To extended it even further, tobacco smoke has anti-carcinogenic properties and protects against cancer.

http://journals.lww.com/health-physics/Abstract/1982/01000/Carcinogenic_Effects_of_Radon_Daughters,_Uranium.4.aspx

The light tobacco 'smoking' dogs in this study lived longer than control when exposed to radon.
37% of the control group (NO SMOKE) dogs developed cancer.
Only 5% of the smoking dogs developed cancer!

Do you want to go even further down the rabbit hole? Most smokers who go on to get cancer, only got cancer after stopping!

>Are lung cancers triggered by stopping smoking?
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(06)00780-8/fulltext

This shouldn't even come as a surprise to those with a background in medicine after seeing the radon dog study because this makes sense! Tobacco suppresses various cancer growth (eg: IGF-1) factors and the body will upregulate them in response! You can liken this to taking the best medicine for stopping cancer for years on end and you suddenly quit
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>>144393847
For the beginner, looking for arguments in layman's terms, I would wholeheartedly recommend the man that revealed the truth about tobacco to me, Dr. William Whitby.

William Whitby, M.D. shows that anti-tobacco "science" isn't science at all!

>The Smoking Scare Debunked
http://wispofsmoke.net/PDFs/Whitby.pdf

>Smoking is Good For You
https://www.scribd.com/document/44685607/Smoking-is-Good-for-You-William-T-Whitby

Another excellent resource:

Collection of studies showing the health benefits of smoking tobacco:
http://wispofsmoke.net/goodforyou.html
>>
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I would never advocate that ANYONE smoke cheap, mass produced cigarettes laden with fire-safe chemicals like polyvinyl acetate [a neutoxic glue] with (known defective) and filters on them.

The filters deposit fine strands of cellulose acetate fibers directly into the lung (which themselves are often in fire retardants), eventually resulting inflaming and irreversibly damaging lung tissue.
Worse, the filters aeorsolize the smoke (not so dissimilar to nanoparticle toxicity), allowing it to penetrate much more deeply into the lung than it otherwise would (filters strands included).

https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article-abstract/109/12/djx075/3836090/Cigarette-Filter-Ventilation-and-its-Relationship

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i51

In fact, I would advocate rolling your own cigarettes which in the USA costs under $1 per pack (that is 20 cigarettes for $1). The benefits will easily exceed the cost.
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Tobacco is the most potent cognition enhancer known to man and it helped fuel the technological and industrial development of Western Civilization.
In the past 500 years, all great scientists, musicians and persons of note were tobacco smokers.

>nicotine boosted IQ scores in a small sample of smokers, specifically scores on the RAPM12 (possibly related to its increasing global connectivity since IQ is being increasingly reified as measuring the global connectivity of multiple brain subsystems)
>reaction time is improved, as is inspection time and visual search (but perhaps due solely to faster motor reaction?)
>pilots’ performance enhanced 4/5 as much as donepezil does; improves late-day piloting
>overnight performance on various memory & attention13 tasks ("These data suggest that when performance is being measured overnight, smokers show little or no impairment, whilst the performance of non-smokers showed performance decrements.") faster performance on Stroop and word classification.
>acute nicotine administration may exert direct beneficial effects on novelty detection and subsequent memory recognition
>in smokers, improved prospective memory (things one intends to do); Rusted et al 2005

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
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Bump
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>>144393727
>>144393775
>>144393847
>>144393921
A solid case, consider me convinced.
>>
Laughing at this addicted weak minded peasant that needs to feel better cause he can't quit smoking.
>>
you need better bait
>>
I've lost five grandparents (including a great grandparent), and an uncle to lung cancer. Both my parents have COPD. All from smoking. All my other relatives who never smoked are fine. There is a clear link. Please don't condone smoking.
>>
wtf i love giving myself cancer, smelling like shit, rotting my teeth and paying out the arse for the privilege now
>>
>smoked 10 years 2 packs aday at the end
>stop smoking
>feel better then I have ever felt before
>>
>>144393727
>Everybody should be forced by law to hold at least one firearm at all times. If you don't agree you are a fucking pussyass faggot.
>>
why not E cigs?

What about issues like emphysema? Are there any olympic athletes who win cardio intesive events and smoke?
>>
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>>144395224
I smoke on average 5 unfiltered cigarettes per day and have ceased without issue.
I continue to because the benefits clearly exceed the dollar cost. The benefits I experience acutely are enhanced mental abilities (memorization is much easier). Go ahead and look around you for something that has this many medicinal benefits (IGF-1 supression, monoamine oxidase b inhibition; rich plentiful, highly bioavailable unique polyphenols and CoEnzyme Q10; increased DHEA and testosterone; increased KLOTHO expression and longer telomeres).
>>144395368
>All from smoking
>basically pic related
Confirmation bias. You do not know that and are looking for results that conform to your erroneous belief that smoking causes cancer, it doesn't. May I remind you that to date, scientists are unable to induce cancer in any animal using tobacco smoke and all evidence that tobacco causes cancer arise from fatally flawed epidemiological studies.

If anything, smoking bought them a few extra years of life considering that tobacco suppresses various cancer growth factors.
>>144395603
You smoked commercial filtered cigarettes which contain toxic glues (FSC) and defective filters which are responsible for most if not all side effects (especially coughing) that smokers report.
>>
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I still don't regret stopping.
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>>144395603
Did you roll your own?
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>it's the daily tobacco paid shill thread
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>>144393727
Fucking stop this nonsense right now. You guys are not better than the antivaxxer. Smoking increases the chance of you getting COPD. We don't need lots of chronic patients clogging up our healthcare system. We are fucking full every day. Fuck you guys.
>>
Is this some leftypol attempt to get "nazis" to have lung cancer and die?
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>>144396334
Even smoking a hand rolled cigar without inhaling makes my mouth feel dry and ashy. Any type of smoke in your body is gonna be bad for you, cmon OP
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>>144393727
Does inducing lung tissue tumors count?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12151628
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>>144397406
>>144396334
But ironically enough, when I used to smoke marijuana a lot, the smoke did nothing to me like tobacco does
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I vape.
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Everyone knows the real culprit for the increased rates of cancer is the detonation of nuclear devices, of which, there have been in excess of 500 atmospheric nuclear weapons test, irreversibly depositing lethal radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere, the lifetime
>>144396315
E-cigarettes contain only nicotine and lack the hundreds of other beneficial compounds found in tobacco smoke (Coenzyme Q10, MAOB inhibitors, plentiful polyphenols, et cetera) . Moreover, tobacco increases serum levels of nitric oxide, a vasodilator, which offsets the vasoconstrictive effect of nicotine.

>>144396713
>You guys are not better than the antivaxxer
Anti-vaxxers do not cite peer-reviewed studies affirming their evidence. They invent it.
I have cited actual science and laid out a coherent argument against existing anti-tobacco science (ie, the case rests entirely upon epidemiological studies). You have presented nothing but an emotionally charged argument.
>Smoking increases the chance of you getting COPD.
Smoking filtered cigarettes increases the chance of COPD but unfiltered cigarettes do not have any relation to the development of COPD.
The fine strands of cellulose acetate fibers deposited into a filtered cigarette smoker's lungs are not metabolized and with years of collective use, will accumulate, and chronically inflame the lung.
>>144397208
The average lifespan of a tobacco smoker, even according to the baked statistics, is more than long enough to live into old age.
You state as though it is an absolute fact that tobacco causes cancer, it isn't.

Tobacco, even the anti-tobacco scientists will admit, produces cognitive effects that enhance cognition and motivation. Why would a leftist want their opponents to have an edge on them? If we look back in the past 500 years, most history makers have been tobacco smokers. Who is to say that the most significant people of this generation won't also be tobacco smokers.
>>
What do you think about dip OP?
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>>144393727
Just looking at the study you cited in the OP

>No statistically significant increase in the incidence of malignant lung tumors was seen in either species as a result of smoke exposure, a finding that does not agree with the results of epidemiological studies in humans. Possible reasons for this lack of correlation are given.

Doesnt this imply that it does cause this in humans but not mice not that the human studies are wrong?
>>
O hell yea, I'm smoking till the end then. Smokers are oppressed in America almost stigmatized.
Comp my sushi or gtfo.
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>>144397418
This is evidence that proves my case once again.

>although statistical significance was only observed with lung tumor multiplicity in the SWR mice.
The much more healthy, Balb/c , mice in the study had rates of cancer that were similar to control, which proves my case that tobacco does not induce cancer in any hard study using genetically healthy subjects.

SWR mice are inbred and highly susceptible to infections and cancer. That's like giving me a study testing the effects of a performance enhancing drug on runners with broken legs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC187294/
>>
Smoking cigarettes is stupid but smoking cigars and pipe tobacco is based.
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>>144395603
This. OP is a fag
>>
>current year
> thinking smoking doesn’t cause cancer

Kill yourself faggot big tobacco shill
>>
>>144398194
It implies that the epidemiological studies do not align with the hard studies which is paradoxical and unexpected.
It implies the researchers found the results surprising.
>>
Look at all the anti-smoking fags get butt hurt.
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>>144398766
>implying big tobacco is allowed to shill anymore
They’re not allowed to advertise and have to fund anti tobacco ads. All because the government cares about your health.
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>>144394282
almost all chinese people smoke and have high iqs right?
holy fug
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>>144398877
But what of the epidemiological studies in humans? If they say they cause cancer then should we not value them over the ones in mice?
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>>144393727
>Post sponsored by phillip Morris

DONT START SMOKING
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>>144398766
>current year
>thinking that man made climate change isn't real
You realize, that you just made the same fallacious argument that retarded followers of "man made climate change" levy against any criticism? It does not make any sense and you ignored to even consider claims because you are convinced without a doubt that the information you were spoon-fed at face value your entire life is real. You never even bothered to critically evaluate it.
>>
If smoking is so good for you, why is it every long term smoker looks like they're about ready to keel over and die?
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>>144393727
Bump
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>>144399339
What tobacco do you/should I smoke? Can I get a link?
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>>144399423
because they are old?
>>
Definetly not a shill thread.
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>>144399617

Bullshit.

If you want to see how smoking effects someone, have a long time smoker and non smoker walk up a flight of stairs.

The difference is staggering.
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>>144393727
all the doctors back then smoked... tobacco has many benefits
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>>144393727
and how many of you faggots actually grow tobacco and use rice paper for rolling instead of buying mass produced cancer-in-a-box cigarettes?
I fucking hope you die of cancer
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>>144393727
Then why is my energy gone and my breathing harder
>>
is there any long term studies for vaping? i used to smoke back in college stopped and now recently got into vaping using mainly menthol flavor.
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>>144393727
I fell for the tobacco jew again, tldr it destrys your teeth, robs you of your energy and income.
Plus even in this shithole you can't smoke like an adult in bars anymore,you have to stand outside like a fucking homeless crack whore
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>>144393727
Since you're going to make this thread again, I'm going to give you the same response.

Smoking tobacco is not the same as smoking cigarettes, cigars, etc. Everyone knows there's nothing wrong with smoking tobacco. The issue is the garbage that's put into tobacco products.
>>
>>144399080
>epidemiological mice studies.
All mice studies are controlled experimental studies where nearly all variables are controlled (ie, enviroment, food, et cetera) and there is a control group. Such a study is impossible to ethically run in a human group with tobacco (at least, it now is given the false a priroi assumed harm of it) all information relies on weak, statistical evidence from participants who self-select or merely happen to have written on a paper at one point in time that they smoked a single cigarette, and the cause of death will be (mis)attributed to smoking. These studies then erroneously not just imply but assert causation from a nearly baked correlation.
There are thousands of variables and the enviroment and lifestyles of the subjects varies to such an extreme extent that the researchers cannot possibly isolate it. Even if they could introduce variables for every single possible lifestyle factor. These studies themselves vary significantly with places like Japan not even having a statistically significant epidemiological link between smoking and lung cancer. To assume these worthless epidemiological studies carry the same weight as hard experimental studies is insane.
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>>144393847
>Are lung cancers triggered by stopping smoking?

So if you start smoking, you sign your own death warrant anyway, unless you intend to NEVER stop.
>>
I started growing tobacco about ten years ago as a hobby. 40 or 50 plants per year. I learned a lot about the history of it. One thing I learned was that Diatomaceous Earth was used for aphid control in the 30s and 40s (aphids are rampant on tobacco). No wonder there was an epidemic of lung cancer in the 60s.

Also many colon and prostate cancers (as well as breast) metastasize quickly to the lung and in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s and probably still today many “lung cancers” are not really lung cancer.

Epidemiologically, “did patient smoke?” And cancer in lung is pretty crude science. Especially when literally EVRY adult male in the 40s and 50s smoked.

I doubt Med Schools do anatomy like we did. We did Gross Anatomy where we did dissections and had a lab with a room full of specimens. Literally EVERY ONE had a mediastinum full of black, calcified nodes. We were told “urban life”. Who knows. I imagine the thousand year old “ice man” had the same from “cooking fires”.

Smoking may be a risk factor for COPD (as well as therosclerosis and lung cancer) but asthma seems more likely to me.

TLDR who knows?
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>>144393727
Those studies are for tobacco. So smoke AMERICAN SPIRITS. All other cigarettes are filled with poison. So it's not the same thing at all OP.
I do believe that you can smoke a lot of tobacco with no negative effects.

I went from Reds to Spirits and it was a life changer. Now I barely smoke as tobacco isn't really addictive, only the stuff they add to it. So the switch lead me to smoking less. But even now, I can smoke an entire pack of AMERICAN SPIRITS and feel great the next day. If I have a single Marlboro or other I feel like death for a week.
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>>144399769
I laugh when I see them all getting off the train.

They INSTANTLY stop, right outside of the doors (blocking everyone else, fuckwits). Frantically searching their pockets, hands shaking as they hurredly light their lil puff stick to help them get by.

Can't even wait 10 seconds later till they're clear of the doors and outside of the station, noop. Have to do it RIGHT THERE, because they NEED it, now!

How fucking weak is that lol, relying on such an external substance to get through the day, and having such a frantic reaction from not being able to puff on their lil deathstick for just 30 mins. Coughing and spitting everywhere as they walk out, looking like death already.

That's without even going into any of the other drawbacks.
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>>144399423
>>144399769
Confirmation bias (and the sample of smokers most of us see on a daily basis are people who disregard their health in general as most healthwise people were mistakenly convinced that smoking is bad for them).
Most supercentarians (75%) were overwhelmingly smokers.
>>144400017
We are of the same opinion.
The "cigarettes" that I advocate people smoke are of roll your own tobacco, preferably using additive free organic tobacco.
I would never advocate smoking commercial boxed cigarettes that contain defective filters.
>>
I thought that what caused cancer from smoking tobacco was not the tobacco itself but all the chemicals that are added to cigarettes?

And I thought this was well known too?

Tobacco itself is okay, the problem is all the shit they put in cigarettes, that's what gives you cancer.
Right?
>>
>>144400814
you're probably a weak nerd with a weird face and voice
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>>144399827
As I said, I actually did this for about 5 years.

One other thing, I discovered that there are small aphids that actually live IN the leaf. When I harvested I would gently spray each leaf with water and force the insects out before drying and even then you had to take precautions to keep the damn bugs from coming back in.

When you heat Virginia tobacco to cure it the nitrosamines in the product come from the BUGS, not the tobacco. I doubt the tobacco companies put in the effort I did to keep the damn bugs out.
>>
Smoking anything, at all, ever, increases lung and throat inflammations, and carcinogen intake. Any smoke. Ever. Tobacco, wacky tobacky, ciggies, cigars... All dogshit

Inb4 the 4pk/day smoker never gets cancerbut i picked up 1 ciggy and got rekt
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>>144400954
As opposed to a fat, cancerous, coughing and wheezing mess who can't do an once of physical activity to save their life, or even sit for 30 mins without a lil puff, else they get all antsy?

The withdrawal is real. Anything that causes that, causes a weakness.
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>>144400837
Did you know you can buy Whole Leaf tobacco TAX FREE. It is a pain in the butt to stem it, brick it, shred it, and blend it but you can make a custom blend to your taste and make the best tasting cigarette you ever had.
>>
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>>144400691
I appreciate the post.
Would you also share the opinion as expounded earlier that filters could contribute to the increased rates of COPD observed in cigarette smokers?
Toxicity discussed in this post: >>144394045
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>>144400506
>So if you start smoking, you sign your own death warrant anyway, unless you intend to NEVER stop
You read that wrong. The smoke is suppressing what cancer already exists. Had you never smoked, you'd have kicked the bucket years ago.
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>>144401066
>Smoking anything, at all, ever, increases lung and throat inflammations, and carcinogen intake. Any smoke. Ever. Tobacco, wacky tobacky, ciggies, cigars... All dogshit
I assume you have a source for you claim.
>>
>>144396456
>>144398766
>>144399003
>>144399284
>>144399639
>people still think """Big Tobacco""" is a real thing

They've been government vassal ever since the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement in 1998, and they were on the defensive before then.
>>
Smoke if you're stupid enough to waste resources smoking. Have fun dying slowly for the rest of your life while upholding other peoples' countercyclic investments. Enjoy being left behind as technology advances around you but lung cancer still kills you.

>>144401066
>wacky tobacky
Go back, grampa.
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>>144401206
Currently, I do not. I have bought whole leaf tobacco from a local green house (and was given their entire harvest one year for free whenever nobody else was buying it) but they stopped growing it two years ago. It was the most heavenly cigarette I have ever smoked.

I have tried growing it myself and have had bad results (plagued by aphids, had to throw the harvest away). Whenever I relocate, I intend to hydroponically grow tobacco in completely controlled conditions. It will be expensive but I think the end result would be worth it.

I mostly smoke American Spirit RYO organic blend. Although, I fear they may have discontinued it (at least the cost-effective tin) so I will be on the lookout for alternatives. It's not the best tasting (other RYO blends are better) but I think it is the healthiest. Although, I have noticed the quality decline since RJR's acquisition.
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How much did you get paid to post all this nonsense?
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Serious question: does pipe smoking give the same benefits as unfiltered cigarettes?
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>>144401221
I think there may have been a brief period where the tobacco companies experimented and marketed with fiberglass filters and dropped them pretty quickly when they realized that was a big whoopsie. Sort of like the Diatomaceious Earth. No one realized it at the time but when they did they sort of quietly changed products.

I washed my tobacco while it was growing with Ivory Soap solution to rinse off the aphids about every two weeks, it would take about half a day and in three days the damn aphids would be back.

As I said, I played with it for about 5 years and gave up. I could never really get they Virginia cure right and I finally realized why all my tobacco tasked like soap.

Through those years I did smoke Whole Leaf with rice papers and it cost about 8 cents a piece and 5 of that was for the paper. But I invested at least a couple days of month processing the tobacco. It really is a lot of effort to get a nice fine cut.

Modern store bought aren’t even made from tobacco. They take the entire plant and make paper (called RCP or reconstituted paper) and then shred that. Which is why cigarette tobacco fro a store bought is all exactly the same thickness. They can tinker with the pH and nicotine levels precisely that way as well as the flavor. No one knows more about flavor than the tobacco companies.
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>>144401961
No. Experiments in tobacco carcinogenisis apply tobacco resins topically to rats. I have participated in these studies and actually made a “cigarette smoking machine” as a Pre Med and published a paper about topical rat applications.

I have seen pipe smokers with oral cancer. All smokers have a “jet” vacuum stream in their mouth when they puff. That jet exposes a single area of the palate to those stream from habit. You can identify that location by looking and see the hyperkeratosis from the irritation (caused by what? Heat, chemicals in smoke, pH? Who knows? Just plain vacuum?).

But I have seen a couple heavy pipe smokers get an Orepharyngeal squamous cell cancer on the faucets of the tonsils.
>>
>>144393727
>Wasting money in an addiction
Smoking may be good in something, but it erodes your finances
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>>144393727
All smokers know they are physically limited because of their smoking. Everyone who has smoked and then quit knows it's a huge difference. Your attempt so dilute a simple known truth is foolish.
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>>144402731
All from taxes.
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>>144403622
Everyone has something they enjoy to pass the time. Lifting, running. Whatever.

There are studies that demonstrate (without getting into the neuroscience) that smoking facilitates motor coordination and Nicotine may help with Alzheimer’s.
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>>144393727
This is just pure bullshit by meme flags, i mean i dont give a fuck about studies i know people that dropped the cig because it fucked them up good you see people ageing and couging up black phlegms.
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>>144393727
>Anti carcinogenic effect
A huge amount of CO2 entering your blood destroys cells and damages them thus causing cancer
>anti flammatory
Nigga you ever smoked a cig,the first puff block your whole lungs.Even chronic smokers wheeze like they are trying to cough up their launchs because theya re that much inflamed.
>Cognitive enhancement
o boi this is top tier bottom of the cesspoool bulshit,ahahahah
ITs a drug a downer drug(nicotine) it makes you slow as fuck and sleepy.
>>
>>144405805
Nicotine is a very complex drug in it’s effects. While it does stimulate pleasure centers, in enhances motor systems and yet it does produce a “relaxing” or mild sedative effect. It is a very complex drug.
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>>144402003
Indeed, and I am doubtful that it is truly whole leaf but American Spirit advertises (or used to) their organic RYO tobacco as being made from 100% whole leaf.
I have my doubts as well but it is miles better than most loose store bought cigarette tobacco I have encountered.
>>144405805
>A huge amount of CO2
>CO2
>this causes cancer
How I know you do not know what you are talking about.
>anti flammatory [sic]
Stimulates the release of nitric oxide and delivers low doses of CO which has an established anti-inflammatory effect and is being investigated right now as a de novo treatment for pulmonary fibrosis (CO that is, not tobacco!).
>ITs a drug a downer drug(nicotine) it makes you slow as fuck and sleepy.
Nicotine is regarded as a stimulant; although it is also known to produce anxiolytic effects. The cognition enhancing effects are clearly documented: >>144394282
>>
start about smokeless?
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>>144393727
>Tobacco myths debunked

tell them about how cesium bonds to tobacco and thats why it causes cancer
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>>144393847
>to this very date scientists have been UNABLE to induce cancer in rodents using tobacco

but a jew named Edward Bernays was able to induce smoking in women even though it was associated with prostitution by correlating the cigarette to a symbol of penis envy

wonderful

stop pretending like irradiated tobacco products are anything other than a way to save money at the VA
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>>144406864
>American Spirit advertises (or used to) their organic RYO tobacco as being made from 100% whole leaf.

that is total bullshit, haven't seen an american spirit box with the certified organic label on it ever

I grew a crop for American spirit, the whole thing was a scam for some Texan to make a million dollars selling the brand to Phillip Morris, he only ever grew one organic crop and he never got licensing to do it either
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>>144398430
All lab mice are inbred to isogenize the strains so all the genes copies are equal between them so you compare genetically identical animals. Fuck off cigarette shill
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>>144406924
The risk is very likely overblown; the correlative associations between oral tobacco use and oral cancer omitted the most important (unknown at the time) variable, and that is STD (particularly HPV) induced oral cancer in males. Male-to-female oral sex became common place, especially among the time where so many young cases of oral cancer were attributed to tobacco use.
>>144407467
Tell me about how cesium 'bonds' , or more accurately, is found as a trace constituent in nearly every plant grown in soil at concentrations measured in the PPB if not PPT and that tobacco is no exception.
This means nothing.
>>
>>144407768
>>
>>144407784
And that specific strain (SWR) was genetically predisposed to pulmonary infections and tumorigenesis, proving again that it was a worthless model for such a study.
>>
>>144393727
Cigarettes and smokers smell terribly. Also, addiction is a sign of weakness.100% of daily smokers are addicted, otherwise they wouldn't tolerate the awful smell and taste which annoys you after you quit smoking/don't smoke at all.
>>
>>144408711
Okay how do you explain this then gunt :
http://courses.washington.edu/gs466/readings/denissenko.pdf
>>
>>144409129
Do you have any idea how small 20-40 ng is (and even smaller considering not all of this will be inhaled?
Benzopyerenes are also found in all cooked foods, especially cooked meats in far greater quantities. Why single out tobacco?
.
I should remind you that smoker's telomers are observed to be longer (with strong significance) than non-smokers. This does not make sense if it was a strong mutagen as mutagens shorten telomeres! Therefore, we can either assume that there are protective compounds within tobacco smoke that offset, or completely block entirely the mutagenic effect of OR that exposure to low doses of it induces a sort of hormesis whereby exposing yourself to this damage at very low dosages, the body is able to upregulate the mechanisms that attenuate it.
>>
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>>144408799

what kind of actual idiot assumes that people who keep doing something don't actually like what it is that they're doing

addiction is a fucking meme anyways. addiction is just another way of saying you really, really like something. people happen to really fucking like cigarettes. they don't want to stop smoking cigarettes because they're just really nice. you know why heroin and cocaine are 'addictive'? because they're fucking great and people fucking love them.

'addiction' as people conceive of it is a non-existent phenomenon. there's no effective disambiguation between addiction, love, like, etc. 'but it's just a physical response' it's correlated to a physical response, so is fucking everything else too. that doesn't actually mean anything. 'but your brain behaves differently around that thing you like so much' yeah that's how reality works, you're aware of it because it affects you physically.

the only way that love of your children and love of tobacco are effectively different (besides the fact that family members and tobacco are two different things) is that we can tell different stories about our relationship to them.
>>
>>144408799
>Cigarettes and smokers smell terribly
Subjective and the smell itself depends on the tobacco blend and curing method.
Many women find the smell of tobacco extremely attractive which is why perfumists and cologne makers like Tom Ford now have tobacco scented colognes for men.

I personally enjoy the smell and flavor of tobacco.
>addiction is a sign of weakness.100% of daily smokers are addicted
Patently untrue.
I smoke on average 5 unfiltered cigarettes per day and have ceased from ever greater amounts without too much issue.
The physical withdrawal symptoms are only slightly worse than caffeine. Low-IQ people who have difficulty quitting struggle because it is strictly behavioral.
>>
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>>144409889
Oh you are 100% wrong on the telomere business and everything else. How much do you get paid to falsely skew shit?
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>>144410808
I can keep going if you'd like??
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>>144411064
What's that, you'd like another?
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>>144411428
>>144411064
>>144410808
Nice cherry picked non-randomized epidemiological studies where the observed decrease among smokers (5bp per PACK) is smaller than the effects of obesity (240bp) even. Moreover, the practical significance of 5bp is laughable and may well be sporadic.

The fact remains that tobacco smoke increases telomerase activity:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16517060

Moreover, this study has debunked most of the ones that you have cited:
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004191
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>>144412025
Not only do you lack understanding of what a mutagen is you also have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Here is your mystical telomere study you fucking stupid nig
>>
>>144414356
>might
The fact that you are getting so upset and now quoting theoretical hypotheses in abstracts is proof that you are the one, not I, who does not know what he is talking about.
>>
>>144414648
>butthurt shill nigger supporting smoking industry
>>
>>144414901

>butthurt shill nigger supporting smoking industry

I've been found out: The Post.
>>
>>144393727
>big tobacco
It was not a Jewish controlled industry so it needed to be destroyed
>>
>>144409889
Telomere length doesn't matter you get a cancerous protein or activate an oncogene.
>>
>>144397805
>Everyone knows the real culprit for the increased rates of cancer is the detonation of nuclear devices, of which, there have been in excess of 500 atmospheric nuclear weapons test, irreversibly depositing lethal radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere, the lifetime

This is my belief as well. I also believe that smoking was given the fall guy for the increase in cancer and that "second hand" smoke was brought up to try to cover for those that had not smoked
>>
Have fun with a hole in your throat, fucking faggot. Smoke up johnny, random anonymous person on the internet knows what he's talking about
>>
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So can someone recommend a place where I can buy the tobacco itself? Also, if you think I should filter them, where to buy the filters.

Thanks
>>
>>144412025
We've got this local pedo-dude who thinks he's fighting "agephobia", and he believes it all boils down to telomerase. Reminds me a bit of chrischan actually.

Worth checking out if you want some dank telomerase memes:
https://www.jewbook.com/olympiaatheist

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/jan/02/lucas-werner-37-ejected-from-spokane-starbucks-aft/#/0
>>
>>144414356
>might

I don't even smoke, but the anti-smoking goys are some of the worst around.
>>
>>144402003
>Diatomaceious Earth
What's wrong with that?
>>
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Good goy-custo... I mean, anon! Keep smoking cigarettes, they're good for you!
>>
>>144402003
>I washed my tobacco while it was growing with Ivory Soap solution to rinse off the aphids about every two weeks, it would take about half a day and in three days the damn aphids would be back.

Use neem oil instead it works great.
>>
>>144393727
The jews started anti-tabacco propaganda because smoking increases testosterone in men and don't want a bunch of aryan alphas kicking their ass.
>>
>>144416684
Hedonist degenerate. There are many such people in the "life-extension" crowd (especially the transhumanists).
>>
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>>144403622
>>144403959

Pic related and a lot of his buddies smoke and surf the biggest waves on earth. Darryl "flea" Virotsko
>>
>>144395368
My almost 100 year old great grandmother has been smoking since she was in her early teens and she has no cancer of any sort.
I was eight when I had a cancerous tumor removed from my leg.

By your logic I should smoke because it doesn't correlate to cancer at all.
>>
>>144416481
Never use filters (see here: >>144394045 )
You can buy roll your own tobacco at most tobacco stores. Search tobacco or cigarettes on google maps and you are bound to find a few. I would suggest the American Spirit organic blend.
>>
>>144394045
You have convinced me however i still have to you a filter when rolling my own darts, how do i avoid the fibers damaging my lungs. Will buying higher end filters reduce the risk of this? Is smoking from a pipe the cleanest way to smoke tobacco? I always knew smoking was not as bad as the majority say, its quite clear, but now you have convinced me. Thanks for doing gods work.
>>
>>144397805
My uncle smoked camel unfiltered and died with copd.

>cigars are the safest Nicotine delivery system in the world.
>>
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>>144415432
>>144416127
>>144417697

These really jog my noggin. The tobacco pill may be the hardest pill yet. Even harder than explaining to a boomer that fascism isnt automatically bad and that the globalists arent actually fascists.
>>
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-- Smoking increases your resting heart rate long-term, which has a whole myriad of health benefits but is especially tied to anxiety
--Smoking decreases lung performances, and you can't win a race war with underperforming lungs

Smoking is fine if you're an intellectual that requires a MASSIVE amount of mental focus, are willing to offset the resting heart rate problem by jogging often, and can keep it down to 3 a day and otherwise have a healthy life

The real problem with the anti-smoking crusade is that it raises the value of physical health over the value of intellectual health. It is literally undoubted science the nicotine is a cognitive stimulant. So by saying you shouldn't smoke because it damages your health, in spite of its cognitive stimulation, you are saying that your body is more important than your mind, which is a value shift unheard of in Western history.

Winston Churchill was and should be considered healthy, because we should only judge people by their mental and spiritual acuity. Everything else should be accidental. You should exercise if it helps you with your acuity and not for any other reason.
>>
>>144416762
Inhaling DE causes lung diseases including cancers.
>>
>>144417614
I did Neem oil, too. It made the tobacco taste like curry.
>>
>>144419488
>>144419488
I also want to add that smoking is commonplace in Japan and yet their mortality rate is much lower than ours. This is due to their cigarettes being cleaner, their lives being more active (cycling), their diet rich in antioxidant tea, and their generally healthier diet filled with more fish and greens
>>
>>144393727
Even the nazis knew smoking was retarded. Stuck in the 1930's, I see.
>>
>>144417697
It occurred to me a few years back that the first anti smoking crusade really began during the FDR era and I wondered if it wasn’t;t really to damage the tobacco industry that was fighting the Rat’s socialist agenda.
>>
>>144419488
>which has a whole myriad of health benefits
I meant to write health DRAWBACKS. A high resting heart rate is BAD.
>>
OP's post is bullshit. The only redpill which matter regarding tabacco is that the risk of cancer and death is MUCH HIGHER if you keep smoking at an older age.
Most people who stop before 30 have very little risk.
However, keep smoking AFTER 50, you will die from smoking guaranteed.

When young, the body repairs its DNA.
>>
>>144393727
Cancer or not, the smoke is unbearable. Has horrible effects on my sinuses and eyes. Don't feel like shit anymore after a night in a smokey bar
>>
>>144393727
Tobacco also helps reduce the effects of xenoestrogens another reason the Jews hate it
>>
when the govt said that second hand smoke was more deadly than smoking I knew they'd lost their minds
>>
>>144395368

Someone who believes the plural of anecdote is data. I hope you don't have a job that involves numbers in any way.
>>
>>144398766

>Ignores scientific studies because 'it is known' and 'current year'.

Burger education.
>>
>>144410004
Meh heroine is pretty damn addicting. Thats about the only thing i can say is though.
>>
>>144410004

caffeine is far more addictive than tobacco.
>>
>>144399769
No one is claiming tar is good for your lungs, the argument is over tobacco being a carcinogen and whether it has beneficial properties
>>
>>144418600
I strongly urge against filters but if you must, my advice for you would be to NOT consume the entire stick. Smoke about 50% of it, and save the rest of the tobacco for another half stick.
The filter begins to disintegrate the closer the tobacco burns to it. The hotter the temperature, the more it will degrade.
>>
WowI'm totally convinced now. I'll just go buy a bunch of tobacco now and smoke it. Thanks guy.
>>
I don't think you cancer shills get what the OP is doing...

I like smoking, i fucking love it because it gets you faggots all pissed off.
>>
>>144421480
and btw I could probably lift more and run more than you faggots every could and I smoke like a fucking chimney on the weekend.
>>
>>144421112
So much this. Coffee is bigger cancer than smokes. I write this drinking my secont black coffee and finishing a pack. Set date to quit at monday, substituting coffee with tea and smokes with running. May God help me.
>>
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>tobacco industry shills in this thread
>niggers saying smoking downregulates IGF-1
>IGF-1 is only really strongly downregulated with intermittent fasting and fasting

Get fucked to death you subhuman mongrels, I will put bullets in each one of your brains for what you pieces of shit did to my father, cancer 3 times, the last thing he did on this earth was pantomime opening a can of dip and putting the dip in his mouth; You all will pay
>>
the main problem is the herbicides, additives and artificial flavors they add to the tobacco. When i smoke tobacco after a week i feel my body is dying. If you want to smoke tobacco better get organic tobacco or ecigarrete
>>
>>144421770

Good luck, the first week you'll want to tear your skin off. Just run through it. And keep running when you think you can't anymore.

Keep yourself busy, you can stay quit, it's really not hard. Just have to constantly tell yourself to fuck off whenever you have cravings.
>>
lol you've been shilling this hard lately

Another tax hike?
>>
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CornCobPipeAnon here.
There is a study out there saying pipe smokers out live non smokers. Though it was curious.
Some RLP6 in a Missouri Meerschaum ShortStop makes a nice, affordable and relaxing treat.
>>
>>144421790
In men, it is clear that tobacco smoking decreases IGF-1.
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/13/9/1444
>>
>>144393727
I smoked a pack a day for ten years. By the end of it, I couldn't climb a flight of stairs without feeling winded and seeing stars. I felt genuine stress when I didn't smoke for more than an hour. I had trouble thinking clearly because I was always basing my thoughts on when my next smoke would be. I had a significantly increased rate of cavities in my teeth, and I needed a root canal because the smoke was rotting my teeth. I always had nasty brown phlegm in the back of my throat. My sleep was never restful. Your arguments only speak to cancer, but smoking does more to your body than cause or not cause cancer. I feel significantly better since I quit. You're an idiot.
>>
>>144422368
I just ordered a nice peterson billiard for myself
>>
Okay even if tobacco is harmless or has "benefits" I'm still not going to start smoking it just because you say it is a miracle drug. It's the same thing with DUDE WEED people.
>>
>>144416127
Even the mainstream hacks are admitting now that "secondhand smoke" was built on terrible data.
>>
>>144415432
THIS!
>>
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>>144422718
You smoked commercial filtered cigarettes.
You are comparing apples with oranges.

The filters, FSC, and additives of commercial cigarettes are near solely responsible for their ill-effects (especially coughing and phlegm response).
Smoke has anti-microbial effects on mouth flora, so your cavities if anything were caused by your own poor oral health.
Your restless sleep could have been caused by dozens of other things. I sleep like a baby every night.
>>
nigger tier retarded
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>>144422783
Very nice!
I just cleaned up a 60's Dr. Grabbow I got for $6. It's a sweet smoker and looks great in a traditional kinda way. Perfect bowl size for me, too.
>Pic Related
>>
>>144401657
>people still think """Big Tobacco""" is a real thing
>They've been government vassal

That's literally what Big X means you dunce
>>
>>144422718
Close to this myself.
I quit in Feb. after smoking for 18 years.
Took me about 15 years to start getting winded super easy, and everything else the same, without the cavities.
I still sleep like shit, hasn't improved that
Definitely can breathe better, and I coughed up enough shit to fill a bucket, the nastiest shit ever.
Still miss smoking while drinking beer, after a nice meal, stressful situations, and after fucking the old sow.
At $13 pack (smoked just over a pack a day), my wallet is the happiest.
I think the native smokes kill you way faster for $6/pack(premium packs), just my opinion. Although I smoked those for a good 3 years as well.
>>
This is counter programming to overwhelm us with misinformation. Misguide us on important topics. Same with flat earth BS. This is dumb on another level. Learn basic organic chemistry and you'll find this is fake.
>>
>>144393727
Tabacoo is fine cigarettes have more poison than tabacoo.
>>
>>144420186
This they created too many holes in their story like Jews getting gassed 6 million times
>>
>>144423318
I've used some french estate pipe from the 60s and a Molina bent apple for 6 years now, this is my first more expensive pipe
The Molina one has a fuckhuge bowl which is kind of overwhelming because it lasts for almost an hour, that's why I picked up this peterson
>>
This thread is blowing my mind I've smoked for 13 years. Im convinced to change to hand rolled I can't stand rollies though. The ones I tried were in those filtered casings made to look like a real cig; everything was wrong about the way it tasted and smoked.
>>
>>144423630
You're breathing in smoke. No matter what, it can't be good for you. Regardless of what you are smoking, there is a boat load of chemicals in smoke.
Including cyanide.
>>
I've been smoking since I was 13 and I'm healthy af, I don't have the "smoker" look you hear so much about (grey skin n shit) and my lungs are absolutely fine (as confirmed by my GP every year).
Whether or not it gives me cancer in a few decades, I really don't care. What's the point in living old anyway? Have kids, raise em, die before old age fucks you in the ass
>>
>>144397624
you‘re a vapist then?
>>
>>144424193
Same, well not since 13 but 12 yrs I bike and run and shit idk if that counteracts. You work out?
>>
Vaping is the true red pill
High nicotine juice no stinky breath and cheaper its a no brainer you stupid faggots
>>
>>144423275
>cogent arguments offered
>point out that anti-smoking science was built entirely on epidemiology and has no hard evidence to back it up
>LMAO, dis is retarded and wtf, you need to be a flat-earther to believe in this shit!
You failed to provide an argument and dismissed it on the same grounds that global warming alarmists dismiss climate skeptics.
These are all valid scientific criticisms that do not allege some massive ill-founded conspiracy as is the case with the flat earth bullshit.

>>144423514
>hurr durr learn some organic chemistry
You cannot even get the field of science correct.
Toxicology and pharmacology are the sciences you would say if you actually knew what you were talking about.
Either way, you would be mistaken to appeal to these as they vindicate my case, not yours.

Tar is comprised of mostly small organic compounds that are nearly harmless and the body can readily break down. The lung evolved over hundreds of millions of years as an organ and mechanisms exist in it to filter out and handle particulate matter, especially if they are small, easily broken down compounds. Moreover the "tar" contains potent anti-oxidants like Coenzyme Q10 and unique and plentiful polyphenols; the notion that tobacco smoke is toxic and is inherently bad for you shows fundamental ignorance of it's constituents.
>>
>>144424254
Isn't vaping shown to be worse? See "popcorn lung"
>>
>>144421770
just limit all your crazy shit to the weekend as is instructed by the bible, everything in moderation, I mostly vape during the week, with about 10 cigs per day sometimes less, I roll my own.

I found that when I didn't have a job I would smoke way to much, obviously this will cause harm to the lungs, because everything is about balance in the end.
>>
>>144424380
I lift heavy weights and so a small amount of cardio for my heart, been doing it for 5 years but even before that I was mostly healthy.
>>
>>144424455
Popcorn lung was blown out of proportions, you're more likely to get it from smoking cigs.
When's the last time you heard of a smoker with popcorn lung?
>>
>>144424749
Never heard of anyone personally with it from either, but I just heard it's closely tied to e cigs.
>>
>>144416762
Its one of those pesticides that doesnt harm plants, is very poisonous to pests, and is only a little poisonous to humans. Good for flower gardens, not so good on anything meant for human consumption.
>>
Tbh. Im also puzzled by that shit. So far blue pilled on tobacco.
But why they push so hard to end it?
Why the fucking plastic which is toxic and pollutes the entire planet is left alone like it aint nothing? Why not mandatory glass bottles? If they care about planet and peoples health so much...
makes one think.
Also know a lot of 90+ year olds who smoke like crazy.
>>
i know this retard. he‘s a shill for big tobacco preying on the /pol/ dwellers with weak minds.
he sets the premise that metaanalyses is not a valid tool for assesing risks, neglects the negative effects of tocacco on the vasular sytem, claims the filter or some shit causes copd (not the burnt tobacco) and builds his whole argument on the world of science failing to give cancer to hamsters.
>>
>>144424998
It's tied to a chemical that was found, in incredibly small amounts, in some flavourings for e-juice. The media took that information and did the thing they always do.
>>
>>144425193
Still, the truth is somewhere in between big tobacco and the American Lung Association
>>
>>144425108
>rage against tobacco which helps thinking and reduces xenoestrogens
>don't even talk about xenoestrogens in plastics, detergents, medications (and by extension water supply)
>promote homosexuality and transgender shit nonstop even to children

Hmmm I wonder what (((they))) are up to
>>
>>144425344
>here's this smoking cessation technology that's been popular for less than 6 years
>unilaterally declare it just as dangerous as smoking, without even the weakest epidemiology to back it up

That shit was absurd. And people ate it right up.
>>
>>144393727
Oh shit this thread again.
>>
fuck you OP!
>>
>>144425804
Technically that's ad hominem fallacy.
>>
>>144417939
>Sure black commit half of all murders in the US, but look at THIS black, he hasn't killed anyone!
>>
>>144393727
gr8 b8 m8

Don't be a fucking idiot and smoke 2 packs a day. The occasional cigarette isn't going to kill you or anyone else.
>>
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>>144400852
>I thought that what caused cancer from smoking tobacco was not the tobacco itself but all the chemicals that are added to cigarettes?
When you partly combust organic material you get a soup of chemicals that will react with tissue. When you inhale that into your lungs it causes cellular damage.

Some of these partial combustion products are known as volatile organic compounds VOCs. As emissions from industrial sources they are regulated. So you get them from the paper and pulp industry burning scrap wood products, garbage incinerators and from forest fires / grass fires.

The first research into the cancer tobacco link was studies done by Nazi Germany. This is why the hazards were rejected till the mid 60s out of hate for the Germans.
>>
>>144393727
i actually have no quarrels with smokers either it be tobacco or cannabis but blasting your lungs with acidic fumes wasn't the intent of nature.. the body has to compensate so much on the lung wall with alkaline minerals like calcium and you harden up over time - not good.
>>
>>144418120
>American Spirits
Can confirm, all the folks who purchase American Spirits pouches are handsome, finely aged white gentleman in trades.

t. smoke shop owner in a decent neighborhood
>>
>>144425890
and in-group
>>
>>144393727
Before smoking existed, there was almost NO LUNG CANCER.
Why should you smoke anyway, it stinks, makes you cough, addicted and yellow teeth.
>>
>>144419488
higher resting heart rate is bad you idiot

>>144419785
Being fat > smoking in terms of health risks

>>144425108
>Also know a lot of 90+ year olds who smoke like crazy.

Survivorship bias


All of this aside.. Nicotine probably isn't the end of the world for you, but smoking has a strong link to lung cancer.
>>
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If I didn't have my dip for the weekdays and cigars & pipes for the weekends, I'd never be able to get any shit done or relax after getting said shit done. People who say that tobacco has no good affects on the body and it's just a habit have clearly never used it and don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Still not convinced that tobacco is "safe" per se but I admit that roll-your-own cigarettes are much better than commercial cancer sticks. Being around roll-your-own smoke is much more pleasant at least - both in terms of smell and my sinuses.
>>
>>144425890
sorry i lost my cool
>>
>>144393727
You are either a braindead untermensch, or a shill. The very first ban of smoking was implemented by hitler himself
>>
>>144426392

Are there any cases of lung cancer (or symptoms that resemble lung cancer) between when smoking was introduced to the Old World and before the Industrial Revolution?
>>
>>144426392
**Before the detonation of hundreds of atmospheric nuclear weapons tests**
**Before the advent of diagnostic equipment and nation-wide mortality databases**
FTFY
By the way, cases of lung cancers continue to increase to this day in the west despite the sharp decline of smoking.
>>
>>144417697

/thread/
>>
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>>144424431
There has literally been a study on roll-ups, you retarded chimp. In this study they've shown they're MORE LIKELY to give you lung cancer. Take your kike shilling elsewhere. Better yet, post some more disinfo/pseudoscience graphs.

Sauce: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20298398/
>>
>>144393727
Kike wants to discredit other things discussed on /pol/ by presenting a well thought out and obvious lie...
>>
>>144426357
Circumstantial ad hominem
>>
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>>144426679
Hitler himself was a smoker from youth until late 20s.
It cannot be understated the changes to the 'the default mode network' that nicotine and especially tobacco as a whole can trigger. Without these beneficial changes, which are life-lasting, he would have been a different man altogether.
It increased the efficiency of Hitler's brain, causing spontaneity, increasing his ability to put thought to words and increasing the sensitivity of the motivational regions. Without tobacco, Hitler very may have been a nobody!

He stopped smoking because tobacco back then was extremely basic (think like a cigar) and it irritated his lungs (resulting in a chronic cough). Pipe smokers, think tongue burn/bite of the lung!
He continued to tolerate smoking and did not "hate" it as many mistakenly seem to think.
>>
>>144399003
>All because the government cares about your health
I hope that was sarcasm desu
>>
>>144423950
>Im convinced to change to hand rolled
do it
find a decent tobacco and good papers or quality tubes with cotton filters.
you'll need to regulate the moisture level in the tobacco as it's a bit over dried for storage and sale. Once properly conditioned you'll need to make sure you smokes don't dry out.
Cigarettes have so many chemical additives in them to flavor them, make them burn evenly, make them go out etc...
Bulk tobacco is easy to buy, cheap and have far fewer chemicals in it.
>>
>>144426973
Non-randomized (self-selected) epidemiological nonsense trying to imply causation from a nearly baked correlation that fails to adjust for lifestyle factors.
Rolly users are often polydrug users as well, and this is a terrible group that often does not give a damn about their health in general (likewise assume cormorbid rates of obesity and high alcohol intake). Of course people who do not give a damn about their health.
The non-smokers who saw this study, likewise SELF-SELECTED. Most non-smokers who self-select are health-nuts and tend to be healthier than the current stock of overall smokers in recent years.
>>
>>144428420
>Of course people who do not give a damn about their health
(continued)... will have higher rates of mortality and cancer.
>>
Holocaust denial-tier of delusions. To be honest, it would be great if nu/pol/ fell for it just like nu/pol/ fell for holocaust denial. More dead inbreds is always for the best.
>>
>>144428420
>fails to adjust for lifestyle factors.

smoking is the lifestyle factor of interest.
where is your source for rollers beeing druggies? or is it just bias?
>>
>>144410004
this is true of mental addiction but some substances (like heroin, one of the ones you mentioned) cause a physical dependence in the body. same with nicotine
>>
I don't know anyone who got lung cancer without smoking
>>
>>144401665
>Have fun dying slowly for the rest of your life
I got bad news for you, bro
>>
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>>144423318
Comfy
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>>144410801
>Subjective and the smell itself depends on the tobacco blend and curing method.

Doesn't matter how good the leaf smells, it's from the smoke itself. Smokers do indeed smell like total ass.

t. former smoker
>>
>>144393727
Whats your opinion on snus OP ( swedish tobacco)
>>
>>144394045
The best way to partake in tobacco is either pipe smoking or cigar smoking.

Mass produced cigarettes like Marlboros actually aren't even really tobacco. After choice cuts of tobacco leaf are taken to make cigars, pipe tobacco and higher end cigarettes, the leftover crap is mixed into a slurry, which is then sprayed over sheets of paper. The paper is then colored and sliced to ribbons to resemble tobacco, and made into cigarettes.

If you insist on cigarettes, American Spirits are an easy to find brand that use actual, quality tobaccos. That's why they tend to be more finicky and harder to keep lit than the larger brand smokes.
>>
>>144393727
Lung and skin cancer rates shot up due to fallout from nuclear tests. Sun doesn't give you cancer and neither does smoking just tobacco. I smoke mine with a water bong, no shitty paper or filter.
>>
>>144397459
Weed used to give me cotton mouth like crazy. That and the throat discomfort is over of the main reasons I'm not fond of it.
>>
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Big tobacco shills are paid to go to forums like this and post pro tobacco propaganda.

Here are 77,400 published journals, studies, and experiments on the harm of tobacco smoke: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C26&q=carcinogens+from+smoke&btnG=

Not only is tobacco itself carcinogenic, but the act of smoking too, is also carcinogenic.
>>
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>>144433325
>snus
Nearly harmless, not as beneficial as smoked tobacco, and the vasoconstrictor effect is slightly higher too. All claims that it causes oral cancer are drawn from non-randomized epidemiological correlations which did not account for the largest contributor of oral cancer, HPV.
>>
good thread
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Get on my level

I've been dipping since high school and I've experienced some gum recession but mainly because i dip in the same spot all the time
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>>144434197
>Here are 77,400 articles showing climate change is real, the science is SETTLED, who are you to disagree!
You sound just like the global warming alarmists the moment you raise any sort of skepticism on their science.

The science is most certainly not settled,—
—The overwhelming majority of the studies that you cite, are epidemiological studies that imply causation from a correlation. There are numerous errors with this that have already been expounded on by me numerous times in this thread. Moreover, these studies rarely correct for lifestyle factors and are almost entirely self-selected (non-randomized).
To this date, scientists are unable to induce cancer using tobacco smoke in any animal.

>Not only is tobacco itself carcinogenic, but the act of smoking too, is also carcinogenic.
Tobacco itself is not carcinogenic as it has never been demonstrated as such in any experimental study which is why they resort to scare-tactics like pointing to some random carcinogen that occurs in trivially small amounts which is also found in foodstuffs at such low concentrations.
Moreover, the act of smoking has not been shown to be carcinogenic and the tar which tobacco smoke deposits is comprised of mostly low weight organic compounds that are readily broken down. Most of them are harmless and many of them are beneficial (plentiful antioxidants such as polyphenols, Coenzyme Q10, etc).
>>
How do you explain the crusty black lungs smokers have and all the coughing
Theres no way thats good
>>
who the fuck cares about cancer
it completely destroys your lungs, your stamina, you smell like shit and your cardiovascular systems is half dead all the time
this is the price you pay for your unnoticeable cognitive enhancement

ask any fucking person that quit smoking about how their overall functioning improved
you fucking retard
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>>144435899
>crusty black lungs
This is a myth. It is not possible, even for skilled pathologists, to tell the lungs of a smoker and non-smoker apart.
>and all the coughing
The result of smoking filtered cigarettes which deposit fine strands of cellulose acetate fibers into the lungs that irritate and inflame the tissue. Because the body cannot break down these, it a tussive response is eventually incurrent, resulting in phlegm secretion and coughing.

I smoke 5 unfiltered cigarettes per day and have never had a cough from smoking them.
I have smoked a feel filtered tube-style RYO cigarettes and I experienced coughing from them.
>>
>>144426392
>Before smoking existed

You mean before the advent of fire? Which predates Homo sapiens
>>
>>144393727
What are you talking about? I smoked for three years off and on but I noticed shortness of breath in myself. Don't smoke if you can help it anons.
>>
>>144428661
Stfu kike take your holohoax stories elsewhere no one is interested anymore
>>
>>144437094
Anecdote and also you most presumably smoked commercial packs of cigarettes which contain defective filters ( >>144394045 ), FSC, and additives.
Of course you are going to have pulmonary problems if you are inhaling melted strands of cellulose acetate fibers coated in fire retardants that cannot be readily broken down. The end result is irritation, which causes the shortness of breath.
>>
>>144437406
Smoke, goy, it's good for you!
>>
>>144393727
Tobacco doesn't induce cancer immediately, but overtime, and it's with near-certainty that people get addicted to nicotine to make that happen.
>>144436732
Cigarettes are made with tar and hundreds of toxic chemicals not found in a normal fire retard.
>>144437548
>Of course you are going to have pulmonary problems if you are inhaling melted strands of cellulose acetate fibers coated in fire retardants that cannot be readily broken down. The end result is irritation, which causes the shortness of breath.
AKA smoking is not safe, now fuck off shill.
>>
>>144438307
>but overtime
If you were reading what I wrote, it is obvious I meant "over time" rather than acutely.
You are a moron to have thought this entire thread and everything I had written referred to a one-time use of tobacco.
>Cigarettes are made with tar
You don't even know how cigarettes are made. The tar is not added to cigarettes you fool but instead is the product of combustion of the tobacco.
The tar which tobacco smoke deposits is comprised of mostly low weight organic compounds that are readily broken down. Most of them are harmless and many of them are beneficial (plentiful antioxidants such as polyphenols, Coenzyme Q10, etc).
The scare campaign over tar, was pure propaganda which resulted in the adoption of filters.
>AKA smoking is not safe, now fuck off shill.
What was written clearly indicated the harm came from the use of filters and not the tobacco itself.
>>
>>144438307
>>144437985

No one here is advocating smoking of commercial cigarettes you retards and if you think early man didn't smoke shit you're a moron also burning the wrong wood can be toxic as fuck.
>>
Smoking fucks you up retard. I smoked heavy for ten years. Waking up every day and you can't breathe. You have to cough a bunch of shit up before you can, and then your lungs hurt all day.
>>
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Wanna have a foot-race smokefags?
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>>144393727
Why is polly anti-science on the dumbest things?
>>
>>144438850
>The tar is not added to cigarettes you fool but instead is the product of combustion of the tobacco.
Oh sorry, I mean the added chemicals create even more tar when burned than it otherwise would.
>Most of them are harmless and many of them are beneficial (plentiful antioxidants such as polyphenols, Coenzyme Q10, etc).
There's still the addictive nicotine which will cause people to smoke more and more and take in too many antioxidants leaving them malnourished. It's why a lot of heavy smokers I've seen are skelly mode.
>What was written clearly indicated the harm came from the use of filters and not the tobacco itself
The filters don't totally negate the effects. Even if it reduces tar by 50% that won't stop the effects of the tar they do get. It's just a half-assed attempt at marketing to health conscious people.
>>
>>144439177
I know there's a difference between pure tobacco and the commercial shit. OP's posts clearly show him defending big tobacco by talking about filters and the added chemicals.
Read :>>144438850
for example
>>
>>144394282
interesting post
>>
Pipes and cigars you fools.

Do it top shelf though, no gas station shit.
https://www.dallasnews.com/life/life/2017/06/02/age-111-americas-oldest-veteran-still-smoking-cigars-drinking-whiskey-loving-life
>>
>>144439205
Read the thread instead of reacting to it like a woman or good goy
>>
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>>144393727
Yeah smoking is so great:
constant coughing, smelling clothes and house, yellow teeth, little endurance, having to smoke every 1-2 hours to not go nuts, burning money away... SO FUN!

Nice try Philipp Morris
>>
>>144414356
Misinformation to fatten the Jew's pockets. Oy vey, cigarettes are delicious and healthy
>>
>>144439440
>There's still the addictive nicotine which will cause people to smoke more and more and take in too many antioxidants leaving them malnourished.
This does not make coherent sense.
>The filters don't totally negate the effects. Even if it reduces tar by 50% that won't stop the effects of the tar they do get
Imbecile, I said the filters CAUSE that effect and that TAR ITSELF is virtually harmless (even went on to describe in great detail what comprised tar and how the scare over tar led to the the mistaken adoption of filters). Learn how to read.
>>144440838
>constant coughing
Not if you smoke unfiltered.
>smelling clothes and house
Subjective, often low-class people smoke and they do not wash their clothes too often. If you wash your clothes frequently and are not hotboxing, they are not going to reek of smoke.
>yellow teeth
Tea stains teeth more than tobacco. Getting your get your teeth regularly cleaned should be enough to prevent it entirely.
>little endurance
Speak for yourself, tobacco usage never hurt my endurance.
>having to smoke every 1-2 hours to not go nuts
This isn't how it works.
>burning money away
$1 for a RYO pack of 20 cigarettes that confer more health benefits packed into a single package than any other supplement or medicine. Seems like a bargain to me.
>>
>>144397805
>shitting on antivaxxers
Cmon OP I know you’re right about tobacco but the Protocols of Zion specifically identify vaccines as their primary method of controlling the goyim. You blame nukes for cancer when it’s actually vaccines and poison food that cause most of it. Nukes are just another lie and are as fake as the 9-11 hijackers.
>>
>>144395368
How the fuck do you have five grandparents?
>>
>>144442978
There may be good arguments against vaccines but the anti-vaxxer movement itself is run by insane women who are pretend scientists that fail to cite anything to backup their arguement. That is why the anti-vaccine movement sucks because it was subverted by a bunch of inept single mothers who quite frankly have no idea what they are talking about.

Males publishing papers criticizing the efficacy or immunoinvasive effects of vaccines can be found and are valid criticism.
The anti-vaxxer movement itself however, is more or less controlled opposition at this point given that it has degenerated into the hands of unqualified women.
>>
>>144399339
This.

Also, it's ironic that Al Gore is descended from Tobacco planters..
>>
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>>144396338
You shouldn't. OP is a faggot.

Smoking even extends the healing time after a tooth extraction by weeks. There's almost nothing in the body it doesn't harm.

The only positive association is it makes you slightly less likely to contract Parkinson's, but even there you're better off drinking coffee, as the effect is stronger.

>t. Medfag
>>
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>>144446005
>Anti-vaxxers are nuts
>Pro-smoking isn't

Even if you convince the entire country of your bullshit, you're still a degenerate for fucking your body because you haven't the guts to quit.

Congrats, you may have sunk lower than a commie with this awful thread.
>>
>>144393727
OP, cigarettes today have a lot more chemicals in it compared to those of used by the native Americans. Today's cigarettes may induce cancer. Pure tobacco on the other hand may be a completely different story.
>>
>>144393847
>Again, to this very date scientists have been UNABLE to induce cancer in rodents using tobacco! This is not cherry-picking, all experimental studies show the same result!
That's because tobacco takes many years to cause lung cancer and mice die in 3 years, you fucking buffoon.
>>
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>>144400236
Except that mice are not people, you fucking retard. They don't even get the same kind of cancers as we do, we get carcinomas, they get sarcomas, and while humans start getting cancer usually around age 60+, almost all mice get cancer and die before they turn three.

Also, "the epidemiological data is weak"? Are you fucking retarded? LOOK AT IT! Lung cancer went up over TEN TIMES over its normal level, and as the popularity of smoking fell, so has lung cancer, 20 years downstream exactly as predicted.
>>
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>stop people from smoking
>now everyone is fat
Great.
>>
Two months ago I quit cigarettes and went to cigars.
I feel much better and I spend less money.
>>
>>144408469
does not say certified organic on it, it's not organic as in in grown by whatever standard that faggy CA laws says

>>144408262
more cesium in wide leaf tobacco than most other plants, literally sucks the shit out of the ground to deposit it in your lungs

enjoy it cancer fag, more hot women for me, nobody wants to spend time with a smoker, why invest time in somebody who is going to check out by 65 on average?

there are other people who provide much more for my valuable investment of personal time
>>
>>144447971
>Pure tobacco on the other hand may be a completely different story.

there are many varieties of tobacco, I quite enjoy wild short leafed tobacco, because of it's strength and lack of taxation
>>
>>144416127
The increase in background radiation from nuclear weapons is absolutely negligible.

We're talking around 0.15mSv/year of increased exposure at the peak of contamination, in 1963. That's 15% of the background.
People live in places with natural background radiation that's far more than 15% over the average, with no ill effects.
Your argument is therefore null.

>irreversibly
Nuclear detonations produce very short lived fallout, unlike nuclear reactor waste.
The radioactive isotopes released from all those tests has mostly decayed by now. The increase in exposure today compared to 1944 is 0.005mSv/year.
If you have a stone house you're getting orders of magnitude more exposure from your walls.
>>
>>144451944
>That's 15% of the background.
Sorry, more like 5% actually.
The average background exposure is 3mSv/year.
>>
>>144445274
His grandma got DP'd
>>
apparently drinking hot tea is linked to throat cancer, so maybe the heat of the smoke is solely responsible and the chemicals it contains have nothing to do with it.
>>
Doesn't smoke affect blood pressure and somehow that correlates with penis shrinkage
>>
>>144452572
Temperature could play a role, but the fact that tobacco is burned and inhaled causes the primary culprit of smoking induced lung cancer: highly oxidized organic compounds and free radicals
>>
>>144393727
i can only say for myself but ever since quitting smoking i feel like superman -

i have way more appetite so eat more nutrients

i work out now i've never met a smoker that worksout and if they do their results aren't as good because of less oxygenated blood, metabolize worse, and also shit cardio

i no longer feel sick after a cigarette like i just poisoned myself

i don't have upset stomach issues anymore

i can run miles

i fap 10x mroe then what i used to

i have healthy clear oily skin and hair

fuck cigarettes and fuck the fast food. these two things will destroy your health faster then anything asides from maybe some other bad drugs like meth or heroin.
>>
>>144446005
You mentioned a study about tobacco smoke's anti-carcinogenic properties:

>http://journals.lww.com/health-physics/Abstract/1982/01000/Carcinogenic_Effects_of_Radon_Daughters,_Uranium.4.aspx

I read the abstract out of curiosity, and it contradicts what you're saying. Two sentences after, "exposure to cigarette smoke was found to have a mitigating effect on radon daughter-induced tumors," the abstract goes on to say,

>"However, exposure to 20 cigarettes/d, 7 d/wk resulted in pulmonary emphysema, fibrosis and chronic bronchitis and bronchiolitis."

Looking for other articles on the topic of smoking preventing cancer, I found:

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3416280

This article also talks about smoking and radon gas exposure, saying "Lung cancers develop in smoking miners at lower levels of radon exposure than in nonsmoking miners." This basically means that smoking lowers the threshold of radon gas you can can be exposed to before developing cancer.

I looked up a handful of other scholarly articles and they all pointed to smoking's strong correlation with lung and other cancers. Do you have more articles showing anti-carcinogenic properties?
>>
>>144452643
Shitty blood pressure is associated with atherosclerosis, and atherosclerosis interferes with blood flow and thus results in weaker boners. However, while smoking can cause hypertension, it is by a different mechanism which would not inhibit blood flow, so smoking should not impair sexual health. That being said, it does dramatically impair endurance, which could reduce performance
>>
Edward Bernays began some of the first major anti-smoking campaigns in the US which I always thought strange since he also is responsible for helping break the taboo of women smoking.
>>
>>144419488
If nicotine is a cognitive booster, you can take nicotine and avoid the carcinogenic smoke.


Health and intellect are not an either-or proposition. Your health directly impacts your cognitive function. Exercise is one of the best ways to combat age related mental decline. Your body functioning properly directly affects your brain.
>>
>>144400000
>>
>>144401665
Anti smoking ancap lol
>>
>>144454214
He sad smoking was retarded, not that it should be illegal
>>
>>144410808
This explicitly says that stress is the cause
>>
>>144393727
I've even seen (((anti-tobacco studies))) claim that it makes your dick smaller. Just more propaganda to make people stop.
>>
>>144442042
Only if you pay the tax, there are tax free options in the us of a. There isnt a tobacco monopoly yet
>>
>>144414648
>>144416725
What fucking retards. "Might" as in "won't in ever person" not "may or may not in ANY people". Telomerase reactivation causes cancer, this is well established completely independently of smoking.
>>
>>144424431
You're doing god's work anon. My rookie in college smoked rollies all the time, and he was a fucking beast at Stratego, wonder if there's a correlation, sounds like its possible..
>>
>>144393727
You skipped the fact that you're inhaling a combustion reaction. Doesnt matter what you're burning if you're directly inhaling it.
>>
>>144454342
More proof that the ancap lacks conviction and and while he may not lick the boot he is eager to get under it. Why complain about the freedom?
>>
>>144454845
What do you mean by this?
>>
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>>144422368
How do I get into this and not get raped in costs shipping it to NZ?
>>
>>144393727
If nothing else it's been well documented that the hysteria about second hand smoke is overblown.
>>
how to get tobacco company shill job? do i get paid in smokes?
>>
>>144454850
He wasn't complaining, he was making fun of the dipshits who chose to do it. But I will complain about it, as long as there is any degree of public healthcare spending.
>>
>>144454929
You're inhaling a mini explosion. The amount of heat will damage throat tissue the smoke will further irritate. This damage itself can lead to cancer. Any damage to tissue increases your risk of various cancers.
>>
>>144455120
But of course only complain about it, wouldnt want to risk having to do anything about it!
>>
>>144455318
I thought you had to damage the DNA to cause cancer, cells take damage all the time, do they not? Seriousky curious I didnt think any tissue damage was a cancer risk
>>
>>144455365
Well I consistently vote for the party trying to reduce public healthcare spending. What the fuck do you want me to do, build an underwater meritocratic society?
>>
>>144455588
Obviously I want that my nigga that sounds tight as fuck
>>
>>144455540
Tissue damage has to be repaired by proliferation of surrounding cells, and proliferation is inherently mutagenic. That being said, the principal cause of tobacco induced lung cancer are the various oxidized organic species found in tobacco smoke which directly react with or abduct to DNA and thus act as direct mutagens.
>>
>>144393727
Nobody believes a second of this right?
>>
>>144435250
Can you quickly prove you're one of us buddy? Just lay my paranoia to rest because I have been following these threads for a bit.
>>
>Societies which tend to smoke heavily also tend to be highly patriarchal
>Turns out smoking increases test.

Now I see why the jew wants to shut this down of all vices.
>>
>>144393727
what smoking a lot does do is amplify mouth breathing
>>
>>144393727
Pipe tobacco > cigars > shitmode cigarettes.

Pipe tobacco is the least harmful and actually smoking a bowl every few days increases your lifespan a bit. Always brush after smoking to reduce chance of cavities.
>>
I’ve read all the research and arguments and counterarguments. There’s a lot of misunderstanding about tobacco on all sides of the debate.

I started off with the occasional drunk cigarette my freshman college year. I eventually used one of those fake coupons that were being shilled all over 4chan in ~2012, with the bar codes that scan and give you free shit IRL (like with the xbox and PS4 ones) and I came across one for a pack of Marlboro reds.

It absolutely never seemed worth it to me to get hooked on cigs and drop $6-7 on a pack that’d be gone in a couple weekends, but for free packs, why the hell not?

I actually stopped doing that shortly after (once retail businesses wised up & the coupons stopped working) but junior year my friend gave me a lip of Grizzly Mint, and it was pretty nice, so after some research I found that oral tobacco is in all probability not nearly as bad for you as smoking. Especially since you’re not pyrolyzing the harmful compounds by smoking anything.

I thought I was cool for the next few years since I could have my cake & eat it too, dipping on & off, and usually just packing one nice modest size lip after din din, most every day. And when people saw me dipping and reflexively let me know how OMG GROSS LOL they thought it was, I took pride in telling them there’s research backing the fact that the chance of oral tobacco use causing cancer is less than 2% than that of smoking. Also felt kinda cheeky packing a fat disgusting hammer in front of people lolol.

I was never really happy with my use though. Even at just once per day I still felt guilty for being addicted to any drug, let alone the shittiest one. And although you can actually feel the buzz unlike cigs, lezbehonest, there’s not much there.

Anyway recently I became aware of the fact that snus (real, Swedish, not the camel crap) is basically dip but even healthier because of the steam pasteurization process rather than the american method of fermentation.
>>
>>144393727
wtf I love cigarettes again
>>
>>144457496
Plus you don’t have to spit. General portions are $3 a can at any sheetz in my state, so I decided to pretty much switch to snus permanently. To anyone who’s struggling quitting smoking, or is a big enough cuck to want to try using tobacco on the reg, I HIGHLY recommend using snus instead of the additive laden traditional american crap. It’s milder and healthier and also makes it easier to actually quit when you’re ready.

So that’s what I’m doing rn. My last portion of general wintergreen was last Sunday night and I decided to just forgo snus for as long as I can, the next day. Shit’s gay man. I’m sure tobacco has some kind of crazy spiritual significance, just look at how the native Americans regarded it. But for the everyday cuck average joe who’s kinda unhappy in the first place and just seeks a pathetic daily drug experience to ease the sharp edges of his shitty life, just drop tobacco. No immediate and lasting benefit except for playing roulette with cancer, and a substantial amount of self loathing for not being able to will yourself to quit.

Do LSD instead niggas
>>
>>144418120
Aren’t the non filtered stuff really strong? Like camels? I want a smooth easy to smoke cig. What would you recommend?
>>
>>144417699
>hedonist
>degenerate
Go douse yourself in gasoline and burn yourself alive if you like suffering, faggot
>>
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>>144416684
Relevant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence
>>
>>144393727
I smoked for 15 fucking years (half of my life) and I quit 4 months ago. My lung function has slowly started to increase, my appetite is back, and I can taste and smell things better.

I did however, replace it after 2 months with snus, which I like very much. The Swedish stuff. Not the Camel or Marlboro knock-off versions.
>>
>>144393727

m8 go smoke a pack a day for 40+ years and get back to us if it was all overblown hype and nothing happened to you.
>>
>>144395368
this is quite interesting cause I know many people who smoke and I never heard about anybody having real problems because of it. Don't get me wrong I smoked myself for about 20 years and I really experience breathing and stamina problems after a night with many cigarettes. So it can't be good for you for sure.




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