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I was raised christian but I lost that faith because I really couldn't convince myself that it was true when I started taking it seriously and started reading the Bible for myself. I still value Christianity as a big part of our western culture and civilization. However, I also see a lot of pagan patterns in western thought, though these thinkers would not themselves admit it. I'm also attracted to neo-paganism because I think it is a truly European religion and way of thinking and I value that.

However, for mostly the same reasons that I could not be a christian, I could not be a neo-pagan. Just like I have a hard time believing the old testament is true and Jesus really existed and did what the gospel says he did, I have a hard time believing the poetic edda and the actual existence of Odin. And I think that's not weird, because it seems to me that the poetic edda, or the stories of paganism in general, are not to be taken literally.

I do however read that neo-pagans really believe in gods like Odin and such. How do you people bring yourself to believe that?
How much of a neo-pagan 'movement' is there outside of the larping that neo-pagans seem so fond of?

I'm trying to find something in paganism that is worthwhile, but I can't seem to find it. I'd love to hear from people who think they have found something there. Especially how literal and serious they take it, how much is it just about ritual for you? Is there anything about it that is truly appealing on an intellectual level?
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It does bother me that pagans denounce Christianity because of their belief in an "invisible bearded sky god" but also claim to believe in Odin, a similarly "invisible bearded sky god."

Varg in particular.

I see how they want to adopt the traditions of their supposed ancestors, including their faith, but religion was created out of a need to explain the natural world.
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>pretending to worship marvel superheroes
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>>144403235
Then be a fucking fedora if you dontbwant to worship the European Gods which are representation of reality.
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>>144403641
I've heard, though I wouldn't know how much of it is true, that literalism is quite a recent thing. The ancient Greeks probably didn't believe that if they climbed mount Olympus they would actually find Zeus sitting there.

I wonder if religions, and paganism in particular, can't exist just as a extension of culture in the form of mythology, sayings, and in some sense the phenotype of our way of thinking and collective unconscious.
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>>144403806
> the European Gods which are representation of reality
In what way do they represent reality though? Just as symbols it seems to me. How does it make sense to speak of Freyja actually doing anything other than as purely metaphorical. Saying that Odin sees all makes about as much sense as saying that one must imagine Sisyphus happy.
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>>144403806
So you believe these gods are real? Can you tell me why? I'm honestly curious, because what about people in Mongolia, Persia, India, or Japan, or Pre-Columbus America that believed in their own pantheon of gods based in *their* reality?

>>144404020
Supposedly the Vikings did see Irminsul, before it was destroyed, as Yggdrasil.
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>>144404618
I don't know a lot about that, I thought an Irminsul was a kind of shrine of which there would've probably been many? In any case, I doubt anyone actually thought that they could for example use (an) Irminsul to actually travel to another world, even though Yggdrasil is said to connect them all. Just like the Greeks believed that a number of gods were on mount Olympus but wouldn't expect to find them were they to actually climb it.
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>>144405123
Oh. My mistake. I thought it was the remains of a tree Charlemagne destroyed in what is now Germany. It was in Deutsche, though, so I guess I misread it.
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>>144405660
Don't take my word for it, I heard that story as well, I don't really know if it was a shrine or a kind of shrine, and looking at Wikipedia I think nobody really knows.
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>>144406061
I think I just mixed it up because it's described as a "tree trunk," but could be a large log affixed as part of a shrine like you said.

Either way, I was curious to hear what >>144403806 had to say in response to us. I'll check back later.
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>>144403235
Paganism is dead and irrelevant and should be banned from /pol/ for being off topic.
Unlike Paganism, Christianity still plays a relevant role in politics.
And actually has a considerable demographic, unlike paganists who are just a handful of internet LARPers and take NO part in official political parties.
Paganism doesn't even create an impact in modern society.
Paganism had some past history worth reading and that's all there is, nobody actually believes in the Pagan Gods.
Paganism in here is just a passing by meme.
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/pol/ is a christian board and we christians have suscessfully BTFO pagans out of this imageboard, anyway pagans are irrelevant and are degenerate. next in line are the fedora commies.
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>>144407481
Just because it has no group united behind a political cause does not mean it can't be an interesting intellectual enterprise to study or otherwise engage with it.
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>>144407481
>>144408526
Tell that to all the National Socialists who disagree with Europeans worshiping a Jewish God?
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>>144408526
If that BTFOs pagans then I could say the same thing about the bunch of degenerates that are the pro-gay christian groups and churches for example.
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>>144408813
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>>144408813
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I think a big part of things for me is that quantum, infinite universes make sense to me, and so all the gods of the world, Abrahamic, pagan, etcetera, logically have to exist in some of those infinite universes.

The gods are also useful archetypes, bringing focus to natural reverence. Mostly I just like trees.
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>>144404020
I still don't get religion. From what I've gathered...
People can't enjoy it if they can't take it seriously.
Most(?) people can't take fictions seriously.
Therefore, religions must be True, in a manner that accords with how the individual defines Truth.
Some people believe in social reality, and thus have no trouble believing in arbitrary religions.
Other people believe in natural reality, and can only believe in a god as True if that god is True in natural reality.
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Why do you need to believe a god created anything? Why can't you just accept there are some things outside of our knowledge?
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>>144403235
> tfw not neopagan but have real pagan ancestry
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>>144409604
>"All the News That's Fit to Print."
Propaganda then, propaganda now.
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>>144408526
>/pol/ is a christian board
/pol/ is not one person. Stick your kike on a stick into your rectum, christcuck
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>>144403235
Oh sure man. Odin loves you. Just keep digging into it. I promise you you'll find all the things you're looking for.
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>>144410641
>Why do you need to believe a god created anything?
He fears death and is on a christcuckery needle because of this. This is how it works.
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>>144403235
>How much of a neo-pagan 'movement' is there outside of the larping that neo-pagans seem so fond of?
I agree there are a lot of larper/wicca types. (girls who think that their witches and who want likes on their instagram posts). But that doesn't mean that all "pagans' are larping attention whores, just like not all christians are pro race mixing ect.
list of irl asatru kindreds: http://www.irminsul.org/as/aswkind.html
>the poetic edda
I always grew up being taught told that the eddas were written by christians. Traditions are passed down within the community through the elders. (would be great to access the same "non existant documents under the vatican that j.r. tolken got to read though)
>>144403641
>Odin, a similarly "invisible bearded sky god."
Pro tip: It's all about bloodlines. It's why the christians deaus vulted against europeans, it's why tptb are ramping up their anti-white "haha the US will be brown in twenty years GOY" propaganda and filling white lands with brown people.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-blue-eyes-one-thing-common-152811537.html
Tptb are trying to wipe out their greatest threat, the people who share the same bloodline as the mysterious "common ancestor" (aka The allfather aka Wotan)
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>>144403235
I was in the same place a while ago. I got really into norse mythology first, then read about ancient Germanic culture and customs and all that and got kind of sucked into Asatru. I think the problem with neo-paganism is that the more you learn about it, the less you know. You begin to realize that it really was destroyed and what exactly that means when Christians say things like that. It's an empty shell of a religion, a dead corpse of beliefs that can never come back however sad that is to some people.

There's no continued line of belief of paganism. You can't ask a priest questions about Odin or Thor or how to worship them or what any of the hidden meanings are in lore, if there even were any because who knows? So that's one problem, then another is that pagans don't do the things we know ancient pagans did like sacrificing animals and spreading their blood on their faces and shit.

There's no consensus in paganism, one pagan will believe Thor is really in the sky, and another will believe he's an archetype. It's completely spiritually devoid to all but the most serious WNs who turn race into their religion.
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>>144412214
Maybe we should just accept that it is gone then?
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most modern pagans are just edgy larpers, you would be better off having a serious theological talk with a priest
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>>144414244
Yeah. The way I look at things is like paganism was the Old Testament for whites and Jesus Christ came and did away with the old ways like animal and sometimes human sacrifice. If you can't believe in God, then like you said in the OP it's still important to realize the huge cultural and historical impact Christianity has had on Europeans, while you can still respect and maybe learn a few things from our pagan ancestors, but making it into a religion isn't possible.
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>>144407481
It's about looking for spiritual truth not about (((political games))). Go die in a fire you massive kike
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>>144407481
>>144408526
yahweh is not real
jesus died, sure, but he didn't "come back"
christianity is judaism 2: electric boogaloo
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>>144415351
>long thought out posts against paganism ITT
>lol kike on a stick xD is the pagan response

Everytime
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>>144403235
I couldn't make myself believe in christ or odin as well. I really just like the chad aspects of paganism above christianity. At least as a pagan i dont have to feel so cucked worshipping such a pussy whoms only legacy was getting caught trying to inform people about jews and being sentenced to death. Also i believe that the idea of reincarnation was good for the normies because it made them want to leave the earth in a better state because they thought they would be coming back.
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>>144412214
>>144414655
I was in the same place a while ago. I got really into christian mythology first, then read about ancient Semitic culture and customs and all that and got kind of sucked into Catholicism. I think the problem with modern Christianity is that the more you learn about it, the less you know. You begin to realize that it really was destroyed and what exactly that means when Muslims say things like that. It's an empty shell of a religion, a dead corpse of beliefs that can never come back however sad that is to some people.

There's no continued line of belief of christianity. You can't ask a priest questions about the nephilim or the Antediluvian era or the apocrypha or what any of the hidden meanings are in lore, if there even were any because who knows? So that's one problem, then another is that christians don't do the things we know ancient christians did like greeting each other with a kiss when finishing prayers and not engaging in profane acts such as celebrating pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter.

There's no consensus in christianity, one christian will believe Jesus is really in the sky, and another will believe women can be ordained. It's completely spiritually devoid to all but the most serious WNs who turn race into their religion.

The way I look at things is like christianity was the Old Testament for the world and Muhammad came and did away with the old ways like gay priests and multiculturalism. If you can't believe in Allah, then like you said in the OP it's still important to realize the huge cultural and historical impact Islam has had on Europeans, while you can still respect and maybe learn a few things from our christian ancestors, but making it into a religion isn't possible.
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>>144417437
>>144417437
>You can't ask a priest questions about the nephilim or the Antediluvian era or the apocrypha or what any of the hidden meanings are in lore, if there even were any because who knows?

You can though.
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>>144416399
> thought out
kek
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>>144416836
So in what sense are you a pagan then, if you don't really believe it. Do you actually do anything because you are pagan or do you just call yourself pagan even though this does not influence your behavior in any way?
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>>144417741
That's why they teach the book of Enoch in Sunday school then isn't it. Most priests don't bother to read or understand the old christian documents because the Vatican deemed it non-canonical.
All your complaints about paganism can be paralleled by Muslims when you complain about the spread of Islam by refugees into the west.
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>>144403235
I don't actually take the stories of our gods literally, more as a human way of making a point about their attributes and shaping their own culture from them. I believe in Odin and his pantheon, but the written material is more of a guideline than something to take literally and live by daily. Paganism feels like a link to my ancestors and my beloved Europe, I think with most people who follow a religion it just feels right, it's hard to put into something as clinical as words. I also respect Christianity for what it has given to European culture, and I'm sometimes tempted to convert to Catholicism, for various reasons.
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>>144418138
>Most priests don't bother to read or understand the old christian documents
That's not the point. Someone out there is an expert on any field of theology you can imagine. There's no pagan equivalent for even the most basic of beliefs. Just because not all Christians are in 100% agreement about everything doesn't make it comparable to paganism in the slightest. Even the most basic of beliefs no two pagans will be the same. You can't even decide if Odin is a real guy for fuck's sake.
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I checked out Celtic reconstructionism to get in touch with my heritage, but apparently gays and queers were celebrated by our ancestors. I'm not sure I can get behind that when it has such clearly detrimental effects. And they also believed in extreme multicultural stuff with no xenophobia. This can all be verified on their site.

apparently they've had outright irrefutable shared visions, so I don't know what to think. Am I a bigot?
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>>144418711
No they're just heretics and degenerates
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>>144418455
>That's not the point. Someone out there is an expert on any field of theology you can imagine.
And? There are experts in paganism as well.
>There's no pagan equivalent for even the most basic of beliefs.
Such as?
>Just because not all Christians are in 100% agreement about everything doesn't make it comparable to paganism in the slightest.
Why not? From an Islamic extremist position pagan and Christians are basically the same.
>Even the most basic of beliefs no two pagans will be the same.
That is the point of paganism, it rises organically from the people. The religious teachings provide a spiritual and philosophical framework for everyday life rather than a top down dogma.
>You can't even decide if Odin is a real guy for fuck's sake.
This level of nitpicking can be applied to any number or Christian stories.
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>>144403235
The thing is not about any of the stories being 100% true & historically accurate, it's about the values. Most of the Bible can be taken as an analogy anyway. Paganism is still better than eithuisme, however I find Christian morals & ideas to be better-suiting for a modern, well-developed society.
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>>144419226
Christianity is degenerate as fuck. Its just nobody follows any of the shit in the new new testament.
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>>144419783
Not turning the other cheek when we came over

Bad, Ireland, bad!
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>>144403235
Paganism is just Christianity for edge lords who shop at Hot Topic past 18.
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>>144419783
It is more of a cultural marxism problem.
If you have a strong volkish group then they will keep out the degenerates, neither Pagans nor Christians put up with modern bullshit if they are serious in their faith.
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>>144420076
Christianity is fairly big into tolerance and not defending yourself while pagans outright practiced homosexuality. Did you miss the whole meek shall inherit deael?
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>>144418711
If you want to get in touch with your roots and fight back against multiculturalism then join the Irish National Party.
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>>144420445
https://www.nationalparty.ie/en/join/ plenty of other anons there you'll get along with.
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>>144420445
Christian tolerance isn't the same as tolerance today and homosexuals can be found everywhere. A more fair interpretation of Christian tolerance would be akin to Evola's ride the tiger. I also suggest to stop reading /pol/'s favorite 'odin drinks cums' pictures, Wicca lesbians are fun to pick up, but homosexuality is shunned by religions for good reason.

If you're really that irreligious then follow this anon's advice and help your community. Every little bit matter with the ongoing Islamic invasion of Europe. >>144420869
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>>144403235
That picture is dope.
I'd worship that shit.
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For some pagans, it isn't so much as a literal being, but a concept that we honor. Odin is a god of wisdom who will make every sacrifice he can to gain wisdom. Even in his old age and with all his abilities, his sole goal is to gain wisdom. Thor represents honor and strength. The is justice and truthfulness. Some larpers imagine they are literal beings but they are personifications of esoteric concepts.
The jotunns are not spooky demons but powerful forces of nature. The gods represent aspects that we ourselves should strive to find in ourselves. You should read Varg's books and watch Survive the Jive on YouTube. Hinduism has much more in common with European paganism than you'd think. Vajrayana mediation is very similar to worshipping norse gods. Indo-European culture is separate from Abrahamic culture. Those previously mentioned individuals do a great job in explaining ideas that are lost on a Christian thinking mind. Christian mythology requires a specific thought pattern on things like duality. Good and evil, black and white. The world is more complex than that.
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>>144423707
It's small-minded to accuse all Christians of thinking only in black and white. Manichean thinking is more modernly associated with socialist propaganda, anyways. To be opposed to socialism is to be opposed to all progress, supposedly. So it has been claimed for decades, wearyingly, as institutions grow greyer and more worthless in their ruts.
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>>144419646
I guess I'm having a hard time in understanding how one can be a pagan and not believing the stories are true. It becomes very vague what the exact differences are between a pagan and a christian whom are not literalists. But it is exactly that which I want to know more about.
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>>144422390
I believe it is meant to be Surtr, the fire giant that will burn the world to ash at the end of time (Ragnarok) in which all of humanity shall die except one couple who hide from the carnage at Yggdrasil's roots.
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>>144423707
It is responses like this that I was hoping for, thanks. Do you know of any resources that are a bit more professional and learned than Varg though? Like an actual historian in this area or something like that. I know there are some but most don't really write for a neo-pagan audience.
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>>144403235
Spirits exist and some Pagans worship them. If you don't believe, call out to them, meditate upon them and they'll show themselves.

The jews sold their souls to a malevolent kike spirit in the desert and now our Gods are labeled as Demons and largely abandoned.
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>>144403235
Its going back to primitive ways of feeling and thinking,its more that you feel like you have the power of god that you worship, so why not worship an awesome god?
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>>144424979
Thank you! That one is saved for my files.
How do people extract all this from "God"?
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>>144424979
Because he doesn't literally exist. Maybe you can be convinced of it, I cant. So what I'm asking is: What is there to gain from our pagan past and the little pieces of it that are left? How can one seriously engage with neo-paganism?
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>>144425772
>powerful forces of nature
Look for the silhouettes of the gods in the world. Not the gods themselves, but the patterns suggestive of their influence. The things that work in ways similar to how that god would work.
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You could try approaching religion from a Jungian perspective, which would also allow you to return to the Christian faith, if you so choose.
That is, religion is "true" in the purest possible way. It's a manifestation of thoughts and behaviors that generations of people concocted and tested in order to produce a more stable society. A common criticism of Christianity is that so much of it is "common sense." Not so, rather it encompasses rules and attitudes that characterize western civilization as a whole. It's common sense to these people because they were fucking born into Christian thought, whether they're aware of that or not.

The thing is that if you're from a western country, you're from one with cultural roots that are deep, deep in Christianity. Paganism influenced the aesthetic tastes of it (nowhere is this more evident than in Euro cathedrals), but its message of justice weighted against mercy and forgiveness influenced the minds of Europeans. Your attachment to paganism is about as strong as your attachment to genre fantasy. You could pray to Lathander as easily as you could pray to Odin, if you weren't born into that culture.
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>>144403235
If they're actually serious and not just using it as like a fashionable accessory the way the whole diety thing works is you pretty much pick a god/myth figure whose mythology and ideals seem intresting or coincide with yours and incorporate it into your ritual work. You do this to get into the proper mind state and give your shit conviction which is like 90% of doing occult shit right there. I see it really as a way to get over the whole" I can't evoke change I'm not able to do that "thing by adding onto it "I can't evoke change but Thoth so could so I'll pray to Thoth/dance naked while rubbing emerald tablets on myself so he'll do it for me"
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>>144427308
I think the last thing you could call neo-paganism is 'fashionable', unless you are part of a very small group that is into that stuff, which I'm not.
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>>144427003
Thanks for the quality post, this is kinda what I was looking for. Though what I wonder is where I can read more about this way of treating paganism, I don't remember Jung being very much into it. I also wonder how much of the actual religion you actually follow; let's say someone were to become a 'Christian' in the Jungian sense you describe, it would still not make sense to follow the rituals, or would it?




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