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There's something I don't get about Catalogna independance.

If the population is really on board with it, why does they need the Spanish state to agree or say anything ? They only have to ignore the state.

They just stop paying taxes to the Spanish state and pay the new Catalogna state instead. They just have to remove all civil servants contracts and do new ones making the Catalogna state their only boss.

What could the Spanish state do ? Send the army in every house to make sure people pay their taxes ? Arrest again and again anybody elected by Catalans ? That's not viable.

In truth, this is impossible because too many people DON'T want the independance and the Catalan "state" wants the spanish state to agree with them so they can force everyone to go with it.
>>
The politicians only want to force the state to give them more autonomy, no matter what results came in the referendum, they would still have tried to declare unilateral independence.
Now that the government isn't bending, leftists and separatists are chirping out.
How do you French handle separatists, like Savoy or Corsica?
Do the people from Rousillon give you Amy trouble?
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>>144408829
>Savoy, Rousillon
What ? Those guys don't even know they use to be independant at some point.

Only real independantists in France are Corsicans (France throw money at them), Bretons (France throw jobs at them) and Basques (France throw rocks at them)
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>>144409834
whe should have stayed centralist, like you
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>>144406838
>because too many people DON'T want the independance
What do you mean by this? We need to be 90%+ supporting independence to get it?
That's something I've only heard from Manolos
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>>144413866
If there's not enough people on board to make it obvious by just ignoring the state, then you shouldn't push for independance.

Manifesting is useless, just stop collaborating
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>>144414216
ffs Pierre this is not like changing your phone company, you don't just "stop collaborating". You need a lot of infrastructures and tools to run a state
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>>144414475
>You need a lot of infrastructures and tools to run a state
And how does it relate to whining to the spanish state and the EU ? Are you expecting them to pay for your infrastructures and tools ?
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>>144414701
We can't spend our money on whatever we want, that's not how Spain works. We did all we could underground but nobody really knows what's the state of those infrastructures now.

Stop pretending it's an easy thing to do mate, it's nonsense
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>>144406838
The point of a democracy is to vote for what you want. The side stopping votes with police is not a democracy, so the real question is are they ready to fight a civil war for independence?
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>>144406838
The Spanish state has the monopoly on violence. Catalonian Citizens don't own guns. That's why they need Spain to "agree" because Catalonians are standing around with their limp dicks screaming for freedom.
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>>144415056
>are they ready to fight a civil war for independence?
No
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>>144414971
It's not easy but your falling for the same exact trap all modern independantists fall for: ASK for independance, waiting for someone to GIVE you independance.

It doesn't work like that. You get independance when you show you can fonction independantly.

Soon you'll be like Corsica, askig for gibbs from the State so your population don't complain too much.

>>144415056
That vote wasn't democratic because anti-independantists were trapped either way. If they choosed to think that referundum wasn't legitimate and didn't vote, that would only make seem the vote like a landslide. If they choose to vote no, that would just raise the numbers of people voting, giving legitimacy to the vote.

>>144415160
Then form a Catalonian police and army.
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>>144406838
Where the state ends and the will of the people begins, is a line drawn in blood and ammunition. Catalonians have lots of one, but not the other.

This is why we've been warning you Eurofags about being so happy to be neutered disarmed peasants before the Jewish "spiritual aristocracy" running the EU by decree. Your protests and meme parties mean shit because they can kill you all whenever they want and you can't do anything.
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>>144415405
>Catalonians don't own guns
>they should form a Militia

Francois, I...
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>>144415669
I didn't say a militia. I said an army and a police. If the Catalonian state is a real one, they'll need both anyway.
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>>144415763
Pray, how would they without guns?
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>>144415549
The state is even less likely to use deadly violence, bad press is their worst ennemy.

>>144415819
They buy guns ?
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>>144415881
You want us to be genocided don't you
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>>144415881
To whom? The Catalonian independence movement was coopted by the left while left-leaning regimes in the rest of the world want out of the mess. Fabricating enough weapons to defend against a well-established army in under a month is out of the question.

This will be more of a pop than a bang, it will fizzle out into some talks and bilateral concessions, and Spain will still be one at the end of this mess.
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>>144416556
Do you really think an elected president is willing to commit mass genocide on his own population over independance ? On this day and age ? Policians only think about their career, they would never risk something so drastic.

>>144416822
>to defend against a well-established army
That's not the point, beating Spanish in a war isn't the goal. The goal is too appear as a functionning state and defacto independant.

You need enough guns to enforce your laws and make sure spanish policemen hesitate before arresting your leaders.
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>>144417007
>beating Spanish in a war isn't the goal
>The goal is too appear as a functionning state and defacto independant
That is precisely the point you faguette, the first and foremost function of the state is defense
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>>144417367
You won't fight any war. What you need is to be able to enforce your laws so Spain can't claim your state is anarchy and use it as an excuse to intervene.

If you appear as a functionning state, Spain would look like a huge bully sending troops to bring you back into Spain.
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>>144417007
You're saying we should arm ourselves.
Just a week ago, EU didn't condemn spanish police violence on people who were just trying to VOTE. They showed how much polarized they are, so if we use any kind of violence the spanish government will have an excuse to use the army (they're desperate to do it) and the EU won't say shit about it.
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>>144417610
I'm telling you to build a state. Have an unarmed police if you think it would be too much bad press to get guns, after all Bongs are doing it (it's pathetic but still).

If the world see Catalonia working on its own without spanish intervention, you'll get more results than just organising fake referundums.
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>>144417610
>You're saying we should arm ourselves.
But that's fashy, my good friend Mr. Goldstein says guns are bad!
>>144417562
>>144417899
>You won't fight any war
Of course I wouldn't, I have the Atlantic in between; were it to spill out, it would be more probable for you to be affected
>be able to enforce your laws
>without guns
>Have an unarmed police [...] after all Bongs are doing it
You're just asking for tolerant muslim acid attacks and Jordis begging Spain to go full-on Reconquista on them again
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>>144417899
We do have a police, Mossos d'Esquadra. They managed perfectly the terrorist attack on Barcelona and Manolos got butthurt about it (yes, they're that stupid) because, as you say, it somehow showed that spanish police is not necessary anymore
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>>144418256
Then do more stuff like that and show it to the world.

And the next time spanish police is beating up catalonians, line up your Esquadra in front of them.
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>>144418383
That also happened (a little bit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTYuY7FN6w

But again, we CAN'T do anything we want, if we could, if we had control about everything in Catalonia we wouldn't be asking for independence
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>>144406838
>absolutely clueless
>he is my opinion
What a waste of everyone's time
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>>144418640
I don't speak unemployed, please explain the video.

Also, if you "can't" do something, do it anyway and wait for spanish reaction. That's how you get independance because at some point, they'll stop reacting.
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>>144418890
>do it anyway and wait for spanish reaction
You mean like doing an independence referendum?

The video is uninteligible, but the manolo police was acting violent with peaceful voters and Mossos went to confront them (probably tell them stop acting like the monkeys they are)
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>>144418890
>Also, if you "can't" do something, do it anyway and wait for spanish reaction
That's how you get Reconquista'd
>I don't speak unemployed
Well I don't speak like I'm gargling on a slug
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>>144419097
>You mean like doing an independence referendum?
no, that's asking something. Independance must be a fact, not an option.

Also why the manolo police didn't stop the spanish police ?
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>>144406838
>Catalonia ignores Spain
>Spain sends in people
>Civil war
>Catalonia ends up poorest Spanish region
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>>144419238
The plan is declaring independence next week, stop saying we should do things we have done/are gonna do reeeeeeeeeeeee
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>>144419245
>>144419215
It's a game of chicken. Spanish state will never send troops and fire on catalonians.
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>>144419322
You aren't, because Puigdemont is a leftie cuck who doesn't want to get his shit pushed back in
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>>144419322
>The plan is declaring independence next week
Then we'll see. The problem is in the eyes of the international community, this would be only words and not very effective in reality.

If your police had manage to stop spanish policemen, the world would realise there IS a catalonian police and therefore a real catalonian state.
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>>144416822
First, it's "From whom" not "to whom". And they can buy weapons from Russia, who'll happily sell Catalonia the arms they need.
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>>144419451
>Puigdemont
He's a conservative, akin to the Tories in the UK.
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>>144420380
>Russia
Putin will stay out and watch the fireworks, there's nothing in there for him
>>144420563
>He's a conservative
He let the ERC steal his cake
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>>144406838
1) The population isnt really on board, at least, we don;t actually know that because (see 2)

2) The vote is illegitimate. No real transparent, legit process, they need to hold a proper referendum with all the works. You can't simply hold any random vote and claim X% people voted.

3) They have no real case against Spain. They are not a remotely controlled puppet colony without representation, they voted for a Spanish government (that has heavy Catalan influence) and they voted and approved a Spanish constitution, which they have which (see 4)

4) The constitution of Spain, as well as European law, provides them with great many civil rights and protections, rendering any argument of mistreatment and oppression moot




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