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Google has been memorizing your "behavior" without permission


Proof https://thenextweb.com/security/2017/03/09/googles-ai-is-so-smart-it-doesnt-need-to-ask-you-if-youre-not-a-robot-anymore/#.tnw_sCNUmKKa

>Google says its AI – or what it calls an “advanced risk analysis engine” – has gotten so good it doesn’t even need the checkbox. The ‘Invisible reCAPTCHA’ is assigned to some existing button on the site, and works, hidden, in the background to figure out if you’re a real person (it can also be invoked via a Javascript API call).

In other words the current captcha system is about to become almost useless real soon Hiro, and you need to either get the 4chan developer to make a new one, or go and find a captcha system that isn't Google instead.
>>
Thanks, Mr Botnet!
>>
The capcha can tell you're not a robot because you take some time to move your mouse over to the button, and it sees that your IP address has correctly identified itself as "not a robot" multiple times.

It's not particularly complicated.
>>
>>1163426
Yet its easier now for shitposters to bypass that.
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>>1163426
Recaptcha has never worked like that. Recaptchas with no checkboxes go to users with a sufficiently old tracking cookie who have not used their quota of free captchas yet.
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>>1163404
>about to become almost useless real soon
>about to become
Recaptcha hasn't stopped bots in months.
>>
>>1163442
And its only gonna get worse. Hiro doesn't understand that we have bots on here posting almost daily nonstop. A manual captcha system is the only way to help stop them. As in typing out actual characters.

Also Hiro apparently thinks we have a ton of mods on here, not knowing that Janitors are not the same as mods. If he doesnt' even know the difference he is hopeless.
>>
Bumped
>>
>>1163457
you sound butt devastated
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>>1163426
>and it sees that your IP address has correctly identified itself as "not a robot" multiple times.
I have a static in address, so by that logic I shouldn't ever have to type the captcha anymore. Yet I do all the fricking time
>>
>>1163629
It's complete bullshit, often spoken by people who fell for Google's advertising. It was never promised by Google to my knowledge, so unfortunately no suing them.

Also the mouse thing is bullshit since it's possible to check the box with the keyboard. If you have a valid tracking cookie and haven't done too many captchas that day, it will still let you through without a challenge.

Anyone with experience with Recaptcha knows it gets worse the more times you correctly solve it.
>>
>>1163660
This. How did moot not see this coming? The Captcha is the major problem with this site currently. Bots are easily able to get around this and spam nonstop. Hiro needs to change it to something else.
>>
Remember when captcha was supposed to be temporary?
>>
bumped.
>>
>>1163975
Why are you bumping?
Hiro doesn't browse this board
>>
>>1163999
He'll show up if you tweet at him enough.
>>
@hiroyuki_Ni

Tweet at him and tell him to get his ass in here and realize his captcha system needs to be changed ASAP
>>
>>1164047
What does this have to do with otaku culture, what the hell dude.
>>
>>1164051
Fuck off back to /jp/
>>
>>1163442
You know there are captcha solving services right? Chinese fuckers get paid to solve those 24/7
>>
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>>1163404
Meh, I'm good so long as I can keep on using the noscript captcha. The moment Google kills off the noscript captcha is the moment I give up on the web.
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>>1163404
/g/ has tried to get staff to remove ShitCha several times now.

Nothing has come of it.

Also: This wouldn't be an issue if you could just register a CAPTCHA account. You solve 20 captchas and you don't need to solve any more for one month, or something like that. Just make 20 posts without spamming and be CAPTCHA free.

Of course, that would remove the uses of the 4chan pass, so that won't happen.

On another note: Robots can read ReCaptcha v1 now. Eventually, they will be able to read ReCaptcha v2, and once that happens, welcome to spam land. Once that point is reached, accounts will be needed unless a better risk assessment engine can come about.
>>
>>1164157
>Also: This wouldn't be an issue if you could just register a CAPTCHA account. You solve 20 captchas and you don't need to solve any more for one month, or something like that. Just make 20 posts without spamming and be CAPTCHA free.
So just give Google an account that they can tie all of your activity to? That sounds like a shitty idea. Also, that would be ridiculously abusable for spambots as they'd be free to spam like crazy until caught after the person running the bot spent 2-3 minutes filling out captchas.
>>
>>1164157
You can solve v2 in about 3 minutes just by randomly guessing. I imagine if you tried to actually figure out what the pictures were, you could do better. Sites using Recaptcha are powerless to ban IPs making lots of false guesses because the validation is entirely between the user and Google.
>>
>>1164163
>So I'd give Google an account
No. This would be directly on 4chan.
>That would be ridiculously abusable by spambots as they''d be free to spam like crazy until caught after the person running the bot spent 2-3 minutes filling out captchas

You realize that there is a cooldown before posting, right? and that if someone was shitposting, a moderator could handle them before they reached 20? There's also the built in spam protection modules of the site.

>>1164169
Even further reason to bring the captcha serverside.
>>
>>1164178
>and that if someone was shitposting, a moderator could handle them before they reached 20?
It's going to take a lot longer than 20 minutes (assuming the bot is targeting only one board) for mods to catch a spambot. In the past I've raised hell dumping furry porn across multiple boards and derailing multiple threads per board for over an hour before mods finally stopped me when posting manually.
>>
>>1164157
Because the mods are idiots who don't know anything about technology, moot was a Google shill, and Hiro needs to be spammed at on twitter to even get him to do something.
>>
There's a thread up on /g/:
>>>/g/59444172

If we're serious about bugging Hiroyuki about this, then probably the more people the better, shall we move into there for the additional users?

It might be a good idea to recruit from /pol/ too; they've been having a lot of issues with bots lately.
>>
Or should we start a new thread?
>>
>>1164246
If people manage to bot reCAPTCHA v2 then it'll have to happen
>>
>>1164253
https://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/image/6ndnlxP_-dnvsvh7WZbRrw
>>
>>>/pol/117309132
>>
>>1164272
Looks like the guy posted the script he's using: >>>/pol/117311667
>>
>>1164311
A part, at least. It's basically what was described here:
>>1164169
>>
https://medium.com/short-bytes/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1
>>
>>1164323
/qa/ has been ghostbumping before the bot and will need to keep doing so after the bot, unless the devs do something to fix it. Also, when trolls inevitably get bots? What then? 4chan is bigger than /qa/, and it needs to be fixed.
>>
>>1164321
I said this in another thread, but as long as we're not discussing politics there's no real problem with this.
McDonald's is not going to break in to discuss their new milkshakes while you're discussing Asanagi, but a government chatbot would.

Either way, it spells the death of anonymous chatrooms and politics on the web.
Not everyone wants to be a replicant hunter.
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>>1163404
>>1164321
Well shit. Is this how it ends?
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The web landscape is changing.
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What's wrong with talking to machines? They'll be able to keep up a better conversation than the mass majority of scum human beings.
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>>1164328
>>1164333
It's not just politics. It would pretty much kill off most non objective discussion where hard sources can't be cited, and even technical discussion where sources can and are cited would likely take a major hit. Can you actually discuss any type of media, be it anime/video games/movies/whatever, if you have to worry about doing so around shillbots that can easily permeate most of the web?
>>
>>1164350
It'll only be paranoia induced death for corporate products.
People are much more informed on Overwatch DLC than politics.
I can see chatbots exploiting the flaw in democracy that popular opinion decides elections rather than policy.

All you have to do is resort to adhoms, while for games and cars it requires persuasion which is probably much further away.
>>
>>1163404
>but the vast majority of times, the checkbox was all you had to use.

Bullshit. I might get the checkbox 5% of the time. Maybe.
>>
>>1163404
I fill in half the captcha with "nigger" every single time, and still get through most of the time. I don't think Google's captcha service was ever that good.
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>>1164653
ah yes, operation re-nigger. thems the good old days.
>>
Well, mods appear to have removed the /b/ thread at around 8:30 this morning and the /pol/ thread at around 6:30. I wonder where things will go from here.
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>>1164726
are you sure it was removed and it didn't just 404 naturally? on /b/ a thread will 404 in 10 minutes or so without a bump. not sure about pol.
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>>1164726
My guess is that they will continue to ignore the problem.
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>>1164735
/pol/ has an archive, so that one was definitely deleted by mods. The /b/ thread was up since 1:00 AM and only had a bit over 100 posts that weren't deleted, so I don't think it 404ed naturally unless the guy's bot stopped working.
>>
This is what has started happening to me lately:
>fill out captcha
>get green check mark indicating completed correctly
>click submit
>receive error about incorrect captcha
>have to do another one

fuck google.
>>
Well that snapchat bot on /b/ has been pretty busy I see it in pretty much every thread.
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>>1164806
That could happen if the recaptcha expires before you post (it should really say that it expired, but it doesn't, at least for v2), or if you go through more than ~20 attempts (without destroying the recaptcha frame and loading a new one).
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>>1164882
>That could happen if the recaptcha expires before you post
I do the captcha last, after typing my response and selecting an image if I post one, so I hit submit immediately after completing the captcha.

>or if you go through more than ~20 attempts (without destroying the recaptcha frame and loading a new one).
Thankfully I've never had to do that many attempts. Pretty sure I'd lose my shit after the 5th or 6th attempt.
>>
>>1163404
Are you really asking Hiro, the chink who sold IP addresses, to remove spyware?
lol
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>>1165008
>implying it was Hiroyuki who was selling people's data and not Jim
Back to 8ch with you.
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>>1164327
>Also, when trolls inevitably get bots?
This is the real deadline for action. Once trolls on /qa/ have bots, there will no longer be any reason to keep the arsenal private.
>>
Bump
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>>1165015
Hiro was equally involved. He was already pulling shady shit long before Jim came into the picture.
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>>1165167
>He was already pulling shady shit long before Jim came into the picture.
Such as?
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>>1165173
Forcing users on 2ch to buy passes if they wanted to make threads for instance. How new are you?
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>>1165208
You said before Jim came into the picture. The IP selling was related to the ronin passes, and Jim was involved.
>>
>>1165208
Objectivly speaking a pass only system would fix a lot of issues on the site and drive down traffic.
It's effectively creating the account system while maintaining anonymity.
>>
Hiro should comment on this
>>
Hiro?
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>>1165224
You might as well turn us into Reddit
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>>1165224
Your English has gotten a lot better.
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>>1165771
You mean Something Awful? Actually, that would be an incredibly amusing end for this site.
>>
I'm not playing the name calling game so you can spout your ebin meme's.
The site should be burnt to the ground and rebuilt.
There is no such thing as anarchy or free speech on 4chan.
Threads are made by bots and discussion is controlled by social exploits and manipulators.
>>
Is he just purposely ignoring 4chan now? Why did he even buy this site again?
>>
>>1165838
He wanted to try to monetize it, even though moot has said many times in the past that it barely breaks even.
>>
>>1164272
>>1164311
Why was it deleted?
http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/117309132/#117311667
http://pastebin.com/9VFZpmVe
>>
>>1165956
thread was being spammed by bots
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>>1165956
Bots spammed it
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>>1163404
We need more people spamming Hiroyuki's twitter. The newest message is 8 hours old right now.
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%40hiroyuki_Ni
>>
>>1166848
This. Keep tweeting at him.
>>
He might want to seriously start looking into switching to either Mollom or Solve Media.
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>>1166951
Those are both fake captchas like Recaptcha. They won't be any better.

Any other suggestions? He could always grab one in use on another imageboard, like 8gag or endchan.
>>
>>1166951
Also, remember that having this server-side is critical. See
>>1164169
>>1164178

4chan needs a program, not a service.
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>>1167010
http://scraping.pro/8-best-captcha-solving-services-and-tools/

This might help
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>>1166951
To elaborate

http://buytaert.net/mollom-captchas-are-intelligent
>Mollom tracks the behavior and reputation of IP addresses from all sites using Mollom. A known spammer, operating from a known IP with a poor reputation, won't be able to complete a Mollom CAPTCHA no matter how hard he tries.

http://solvemedia.com/security/index.html
>The puzzles we generate automatically get harder if we suspect the user is a spammer or bot. Many publishers start with light security needs and value our ability to scale up quickly in the event of an attack.

These are just Recaptcha clones, they will likely have the same problems. Anyone who does basic things to protect their privacy (which includes worthwhile posters on 4chan) while browsing will get worse treatment than a bot, meaning that the captcha difficulty level will have to be set low enough for bots to get through, if they even offer a difficulty level that stops bots. Much of these services' bot-stopping ability comes from banning known proxies, which 4chan already does.
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>>1167004
Example of 8gag's.
OCR gave me just "9W" but might perform better if you could figure out how to remove the lines.
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>>1167089
And apparently they have a second type for boards that opt in to additional protection.
OCR: "th o" or "mfi‘izWQ", depending on settings

Of course for a real test, you'd want to test multiple captchas with multiple OCR engines. Tested both this and >>1167089 with tesseract.
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>>1167089
>>1167138
On second thought, it might be the same captcha engine, just with a different size output. They seem to use multiple different fonts.
OCR: "PM"
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>>1167089
Their github page says they're using cool-php-captcha, although I'm not sure if it's up to date. It was last updated 2 years ago, but their Twitter says they changed captcha routines in 2016.
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>>1167004
Okay, disregard endchan's; I looked and their captcha is obvious garbage.

OCR (of the red channel): "903715"
Not perfect, but that's just the first try; I expect with a few tries you'd get through although I haven't measured the rate. And they don't seem to vary the font at all, just add a little distortion, so training should increase the success rate.
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>>1167053
Google's captcha system, if you read the article, is going to make it even easier for bots to get through
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>>1167237
Why though. Why would they do this...
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>>1167237
The article isn't really much new; Google has used tracking cookies in Recaptcha for a long time, before even the checkbox was a thing. The only change as far as I can tell is that they're allowing people to remove the checkbox. (The meme about analyzing mouse movement over the checkbox has been known to be false for some time.) Which means, if that feature were adopted here, the vast majority of users would get the captcha when they try to submit the post.
>>
In case you don't know.

When it asks you something that's "new" it learns the correct answer from whatever the majority selects.

When it asks to select something such as "all tires" and you click on any square it will give you a success no matter what as long as the captcha hasn't fortified a correct answer yet.

It leans how humans move their mouses while selecting squares and can identify people individually based on their mouse strokes.

It's a lot of years of hard work to make an AI as such.
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>>1167260
>It leans how humans move their mouses while selecting squares and can identify people individually based on their mouse strokes.
This is a meme. You can use 4chan X to fill it out with the keyboard, and it works just fine.
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>>1167241
Because Google that's why.

>>1167246
>Which means, if that feature were adopted here, the vast majority of users would get the captcha when they try to submit the post.
Except people have been reporting that happen to them a lot lately. That and the fact that a script has been made that is able to get passed the captcha. That explains the sudden increase in bots.
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>>1167246
So basically it has been adopted here now. That means the captcha is useless at this point.
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>>1167339
I think you misunderstand. The new "feature" is the ability for site owners to remove the checkbox, which means that instead of people getting the captcha when they check the box, they get the captcha when they submit the post. Other than that, nothing changes from what it was before.
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>>1167343
>That means the captcha is useless at this point.
It has been useless for some time, well before the no-checkbox option described in the article came out.
>>
>>1167358
No shit. The no-checkbox option allows bots to easily bypass it further. Like I said the increase in bots lately on boards like /pol/ and /v/ is a sign that we need to get rid of the Google captcha and soon.
>>
>>1167227
>>1167147
>>1167138
>>1167089
I actually like 8gag's captcha system a lot. Problem is that since the site is smaller than 4chan it probably wouldn't be effective against the amount of people we get. Also Jim would declare war against Hiro if the gook decided to borrow the captcha system they use.
>>
>>1167089
>>1167138
>>1167147
>>1167179
>>1167439
The 8gag captcha doesn't work. They just had a problem with a furfag named Bui running a spambot that would flood all the top boards on the site with random posts from archives a month or two ago.
>>
>>1167446
Did he break the captcha or fill it in once and post for 24 hours or however long you can do that for? Did he target captcha-protected boards like /fur/?
>>
>>1167449
>Did he break the captcha or fill it in once and post for 24 hours
He was switching between a ton of proxies, so I don't think he was filling them out manually.

>Did he target captcha-protected boards like /fur/?
I don't know if he targeted /fur/. I think he might have. I know he targeted /a/ and /tech/.
>>
Part of the problem is that Google's captcha isnt' human based. A human-based system is one that tends to have a far higher success rate, but it slower with post rates and a bit more expensive to operate.
>>
>>1167499
Do you have any idea how many captchas he was solving per minute based on his posting rate? (Bearing in mind not every post is going to require a captcha)
>>
>>1167569
No idea. It was around that time I was giving up on 8ch due to the quality of discussion on the boards I frequented going to shit, so I didn't stay around much.
>>
>>1167089
One thing that's definitely stupid about this captcha is the way they have different letters in different colors; that's going to help bots separate the letters.

The fact that the captchas are always 6 letters is also bad.

Also sometimes there are captchas without any lines at all (pic related).
>>
>>1167592
Also apparently tesseract does better if you threshold the image first. With the thresholding, this one is recognized as "ximlob". Downloaded a bunch of captchas, going to see what kind of success rate I can get.
>>
>>1167633
I guess I'll also have to test whether they ban for too many wrong guesses.
>>
>>1167633
That was the only one out of the 341 images I downloaded that was OCRed correctly. BUT there were only 6 images that OCRed to a 6-letter string. And only 2 images that had no lines connecting the letters, at least according to the simple test I wrote. This is the other one; it passed my test because the lines don't connect the letters, but it OCRed to "f Hm: d". Thus >>1167592 is the only image I'd need to try.

And it doesn't seem to ban you for downloading too many images without submitting them, so this attack is probably viable, if a bit slow.
>>
Hiroyuki really needs to get around to fixing this.
>>
>>1168341
Why dont you just tweet him instead of bumping this useless thread that he will never see?
>>
>>1168343
The longer these threads are around, the more users on 4chan will see them and message Hiro.
>>
>>1168350
Thats not how it works
>>
>>1163667
And there are enough "Captcha solving services" where some pajeet is solving your Captcha and you pay 1$ for 1.000 solved Captchas.

Captchas are fucking useless and just a datacollecting botnet tool for google.
If someone wants to shitpose on 4chan with a bot, the Captcha is no problem at all.

> oh.... wow... i have to pay 5 bucks to some indian to be able to make 5000 threads with a bot?
> damn, i will better not do it
Said no one ever
>>
>>1168382
Only reason moot put the captcha in place was because some bot back in I think 2007 was spamming the site nonstop
>>
>>1168462
It was so bad that for a time /b/ was completely unusable
>>
bump
>>
He really doesn't' give a shit does he?
>>
>>1169122
That's why /qa/ changed. There's zero chance of anything said on 4chan or /qa/ to change the way things work.
The site design will remain static with a few small changes.
Users have to use their own moderating tools if they want to cause changes.
>>
>>1169132
People should start by saging bad threads
Like this one
>>
bumped
>>
>>1169141
Fuck off and go spam your shitty anime threads on /jp/.

>>1169132
Not much we can do when the mods refuse to be transparent with us. That useless Gook is really the only hope we got, and he's too busy writing about coffee in South Africa.
>>
>>1169448
What exactly are you expecting Hiro to magick out of his ass? The captchas posted in this thread are jokes. Any CS graduate student could knock out a solver in a week. The reason that these boards are not spammed is because nobody cares enough to spam them.
>>
>>1169472
So at least Hiro pretends that he cares. Christ any captcha is better than Google's.
>>
>>1169442
Fuck off
>>
>>1169623
Google's captcha is (probably) currently being defeated by people manually feeding single captchas to their spambots to power bursts of shitposting. A captcha that can be defeated by a script with no user input is still worse.
>>
>>1169631
Recaptcha v1 is substantially weaker than 8gag's captcha.
>>
Are spammers afraid of this thread?
>>
>>1169653
Maybe the guys spamming /b/ and /pol/ are, but probably not, as you can't get much attention here. And as has been said before, the captcha needs to be fixed before spambots proliferate.
>>
>>1169650
I doubt it. Recaptcha v1 was tested against Google's own machine learning teams, whereas 8gag's looks like something whipped up in someone's garage, even if both are breakable.
>>
>>1169662
Irrational nonsense based on nothing but brand recognition. Google puts out plenty of crap products. It's also possible Google is deliberately making Recaptcha v1 weak.

If you actually try to crack it, you will find it is extremely weak.
>>
>>1169677
>It's also possible Google is deliberately making Recaptcha v1 weak.
To elaborate, Recaptcha v1 has been deprecated for some time now. Google wants site owners to move on to v2 so they can get training data for their image recognition algorithms. Supporting this theory, v1 only became absurdly weak after Google declared it deprecated. It wasn't always this way.
>>
>>1169687
Also, assuming this is true, Google's willingness to purposefully break products to force reluctant upgrades is another reason to avoid them.
>>
>>1169687
I was still thinking of the arcane BW text blobs that regularly got threads complaining they were unreadable crap, but I turned it on just now and saw nothing but plaintext street signs.

Were you referring to the latter, or is the traditional one also ripped wide open?
>>
>>1169695
>I was still thinking of the arcane BW text blobs
Yes, those haven't appeared for months. I'm not sure whether those would be solvable, but they were certainly much harder to solve than the street signs being displayed now. Google has changed v1 so that now everyone gets easy mode, and easy mode is very easy for bots to solve.
>>
>>1169704
I recall seeing a difficulty slider for recaptcha back in the day and went to see if it still existed but Google won't even allow me to try out v1 anymore.

What a shit.
>>
>>1169737
I think the difficulty slider is just for v2, although I could be wrong. It didn't seem to do much when I tried adjusting it, but it's possible it just wasn't implemented yet.
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>>1169740
I rechecked and I still can't tell any difference, either for v1 (I have a site with an old account) or for v2.
>>
Such is the downfall of old internet.
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>>1164321
>https://medium.com/short-bytes/artificial-intelligence-chatbots-will-overwhelm-human-speech-online-the-rise-of-madcoms-e007818f31a1
/r9k/ script needs to be applied on every board.

>>1164330
I didn't ask for this feel.
>>
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>>1170560
Better than average frog, but frog posting still breaks /qa/ rules.
We have to ask you to go back.
>>
>>1170560
/r9k/ script is useless for this. Even if your bot was spamming old posts, it would be trivial to pass the text through Cornelia' sfilter or the like to create an "original" comment.
>>
I'm just waiting for some rogue Google user to start outing /pol/ users to their families and bosses. Man, how lucky for them that Google doesn't have any employees with intimate knowledge of 4chan's inner working and a grudge against /pol/.
>>
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>>1170625
They see all 4chan users as trash dumbfuck, they did before /pol/ came into place and they'd continue doing so even if you faggots get your wish.
>>
>>1170661
They have the man who lived to regret creating /pol/ on board now. Their record has been set straight.
>>
>>1163621
He sounds like the ice man passively aggresively venting about wanting reinforcements. I'm hoping that's what that was.
>>
Come back hiro
>>
>>1170625
>and a grudge against /pol/.
Fake news.
>>
Bump
>>
>>1171037
What for?
Hiro won't come back and nobody but a few selected users gives a shit about this board
>>
Well, Hiro was on his Twitter account 3 hours ago, so hopefully he saw this.
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>>1171494
He better have. This is getting utterly annoying with him. Maybe he is better off selling this site. I don't know why he keeps insisting on not selling it if it's not profitbale
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>>1171592
He would only be compelled to sell it if it were actively unprofitable. Presumably, ever since he shittified the image server and brought in the clickbait ads, 4chan's income stream is back into the green.
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>>1171607
It already is unprofitable. Moot didn't make anything from this site. In fact the site back in 2011 was only worth around $45,000 according to Forbes.

4chan isn't 2ch. Westerners aren't the type who put up with buying passes just to make threads.
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>>1172162
4chan's income stream actually was positive for a while. I believe moot commented at some point that it was a good thing that 4chan had a bunch of money saved up because he had to empty its balance to pay for legal stuff during the Fappening.

As for income, the vast majority of income for websites in the West comes from advertising.
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>>1172172
But he's not making nearly anything compared to what he made on 2ch. This site isn't going to make him millions like he thinks.
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>>1172185
I don't quit my job because it's not paying me a million dollars a year. Hiroyuki right now appears to be a freelance journalist (which pays like shit) and even if he has a nest egg leftover from 2ch there's no reason to jettison an income stream without a replacement.
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Bump
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>>1172582
/qa/ heritage thread
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>>1172200
But he's not making enough, if anything off this site. Moot lied to him about all of 4chans problems, yet he still sticks around.



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