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File: WotR Title 01.png (1.58 MB, 938x1219)
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The voice of Duke Harold of York comes through over the radio, strong and clear, broadcasting to every home in England.

"The May family, the supporters of the man sitting upon the English throne, have shown themselves to be little more than carrion birds feeding on the carcass of our once great nation. I hold here with me-" the microphone barely picks up the crinkle of paper "Documents proving that the man on the throne, Charles May, is nothing more than a pretender to the crown. These documents include testimony sworn by some of the highest peers of this country, sworn before God, that Charles and the May family conspired to murder our king. Not only that, but they plotted to prevent the throne from passing to the next male heir in line, my grandfather, the late Thomas of York." There is a pause to let the gravity of these charges settle with the audience. "These testimonies have been reviewed by the Archbishop of Canterbury who attests to their validity. Therefore, I have no choice but to myself claim inheritance to the throne. I ask all true Englishmen stand beside me in these trying times. Together, we can march to victory and glory. England will once again stand as a great nation, and we will be the envy of Europe. God bless you, and good night."
>>
Important Links:

>What's the deal with War of the Roses: 1932?
https://pastebin.com/ectbmcZq

>Europe Political Map 1932
https://imgur.com/xuayKEe

>Family Tree
https://i.imgur.com/iPZZuiZ.jpg

>Archive
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=War%20of%20the%20Roses

I normally allow between ten and twenty minutes for voting depending on the importance of the issue and how divided the vote is. If the vote is tied up, I usually allow an extra five minutes for a tie breaker, and if no one votes, I may roll for the tie breaker.

I always try to incorporate (and encourage!) write ins if they don't violate the spirit of voted decisions, though I may edit or tweak them to fit better.
>>
File: Harold of York.jpg (188 KB, 1024x1441)
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The Yorkist war machine stands poised on the border of Devonshire, ready to visit death upon the Royalist forces standing opposed to them. As Duke William of Somerset, you are their commander in chief and the sole architect of their destruction. Unfortunately, as it is early December, the war against Devonshire, Cornwall, and the other Royalist forces isn't the only matter of concern. You also have to content with planning Christmas dinner for your family, an event your youngest sister Kate will be traveling from America for. You likewise have to coordinate your other sister Violet's wedding, set to take place on New Year's Eve, 1932.

As for the Christmas dinner, you'd recently invited Duke Harold of York, your cousin, leader of the Yorkist forces, and now claimant to the English throne. An invitation Harold has now responded to. The letter delivered by boat into the port at Bridgwater, brought to you personally by your bodyguard and servant, Morris.

Duke Somerset,

I would be delighted to accept your family's invitation to share Christmas dinner. I'm afraid that York isn't very pleasant around this time of year, and I would welcome even a small opportunity for a change in scenery. I shall have plans made to travel to Bridgwater by the 24th. I was not sure what sort of dinner you planned to have exactly. That is to say, if it were just my person invited, or if you wanted to perhaps make an event of it and bring in all who support us. I understand full well in either case. It is wartime after all, and sacrifices have to be made.

I eagerly await your response.

Your close friend and Cousin,
Duke York



A personal get together with Harold would give you closer access to him of course, but you also have the opportunity to make your capital a center of the Yorkist faction, even if only briefly. There is also the middle ground of merely inviting Harold and his court. You would have access to a few others close to Harold, but would miss out on many of the other powerful policy makers in the cause.


>Invite Harold alone, it will be a private visit
>Invite Harold and his court
>All the leaders of the Yorkist faction are invited
>Write in
>>
Oh finally a good quest. It's a shame that I forgot all the history I learned in high school and haven't read any of the old threads
>>
>>2221511
History doesn't even matter with this quest, TK has no idea who the Yorkists and Lancashirians even were.

>>2221509
>All the leaders of the Yorkist faction are invited
Hey, let's kill/capture them and present them to the King, then during the victory feast we do the same thing to the Royalists.
>>
>>2221509
>>All the leaders of the Yorkist faction are invited

Go big, or go home
>>
>>2221533
>Hey, let's kill/capture them and present them to the King, then during the victory feast we do the same thing to the Royalists.

Are you mad?

>>2221511

You're welcome all the same lad
>>
>>2221509
>>Invite Harold alone, it will be a private visit
>>
>>2221548
Mad... or genius?
>>
>Invite Harold alone, it will be a private visit

Probably not a wise idea for it to be known he's wandering the country side, wouldn't want to run the risk of him getting assassinated right?
>>
>>2221556
Kinda thinking that inviting Harold alone might make some of the others feel like we're playing at intrigue, and in turn make them paranoid against us.

Of course, bringing everyone around might invite the royalists to try and assassinate us.

>>2221566

Simply mad my man
>>
>>2221570
So we assassinated them instead, then the Royalists think we're on their side, but we're really on the French side.
>>
>All the leaders of the Yorkist faction are invited
>>2221533
>>2221545

>Invite Harold alone, it will be a private visit
>>2221556
>>2221569

Delaying 3 mins for tie breaker
>>
Rolled 1 (1d2)

>>2221587

>1 Private
>2 Yorkist party
>>
>Invite Harold alone, it will be a private visit|

>Writing
>>
There is no sense taxing your own facilities, or those of the Yorkist cause in general, to bring too many prominent Yorkists to Bridgwater. Maybe you would invite your friend Buckingham or your uncle Albert but you would otherwise keep it a private invitation. You send as much in your reply to Harold, also informing him of your intentions to have a child with Vivienne.

A day later, you receive a telegram from your brother John 'on the eve of the attack on Devonshire. Outside, the winter night is surprisingly mild, really more like mid fall than true winter. It's almost a shame because you were looking forward to a roaring fire in every room in your estate, but it simply isn't needed at present.

Still, you sit on your library couch, careful of your bum leg and read.


WILL,

FORCES STAND ARRAYED FOR ATTACK. SPIRITS HIGH, WILL COMMENCE ATTACK TOMORROW MORNING. GOD GOES WITH US.

JOHN.


The plan of attack is for the army to separate into three wings. The Left Wing under Lord Park will attack Honiton and attempt to circle the enemy's right flank.

The Center, under Lord Osbourne will conduct a series of feints and probing attacks on the Tiverton-Cullumpton Line with intent to fix the enemy in place.

The Right Wing, under Lord John Seymour, will break through the enemy's picket forces and circle the Royalists' left flank.

Once completed successfully, the Army of Devonshire should be trapped in Tiverton-Cullumpton and destroyed in detail.


Order of Battle:

>Right Wing: Lord John Seymour

1st Somerset Yeoman Cavalry. Colonel: Sir Abernathy
Somerset Retinue. Colonel: Sir Delamare
Ap Gwynedd's Welsh Regiment
Llewellyn's Welsh Regiment

>Center: Lord Osbourne

3rd Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Walker
4th Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Donaldson
5th Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Farrow
6th Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Lovelace

>Left Wing : Lord Park

1st Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Phelan
2nd Somerset Regiment. Colonel: Sir Murray
1st Normandie Regiment. Colonel: Sir de Vymont
2nd Normandie Regiment. Colonel: Sir Theroulde


Are there any changes that should be made to this plan or extra details?


>Yes (Write in)
>No, proceed
>>
Cool that I'm catching this live, I'd vote small gathering too
>>
>>2221616
>No, proceed
Too bad we can't gas our countrymen without looking bad, poison gas is probably pretty cheap.
>>
>No, proceed

>writing
>>
>>2221625
>gas

Proper production facilities for large amounts of effective gas aren't present in Somerset, and the defense gear isn't wide spread enough. Yeah, plus people would totally think you were being a dick
>>
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The attack proceeds in good order on the first day, opened in the morning by a sudden arrival of the Somerset Yeoman Cavalry before the township of Bampton, just north of Tiverton. Stationed in town is a small garrison of Royalist militia who, taken totally off guard by your cavalry, surrender en masse. The way is cleared for the infantry, some borne in trucks, to continue their circling maneuver toward Tiverton.

In the Center, Lord Osbourne's men mount feints and probing attacks to keep the Royalists occupied. The chatter of machine gun fire and boom of canons is intermittent, but constant. The Devonian forces show no signs of withdrawing and mount a determined resistance

To the south, the Left Wing under Park runs into difficulties, Park relays these problems via telegram.

ADVANCE STALLED. FORCES FROM EXETER ENCOUNTERED. ENEMY PRESENT IN FORCE. CASUALTIES MODERATE. WILL DEPLOY BRIGADES AND ATTACK EN MASSE.

LORD PARK.

For a double envelopment to be successful, both wings need to achieve their goals. Your right wing alone may not be strong enough to turn the enemy line and prevent their withdrawal to Exeter. If they proceed alone they may not be enough to prevent a mass withdrawal toward Exeter. It may be possible to order the Right Wing to hold until the Left has broken through, though
>Hold until the southern wing has broken through
>Press on with the Right Wing as the left continues to try to breakthrough
>Attack with the Right Wing and halt the Left Wing.
>Write in
>>
>>2221719
>Hold until the southern wing has broken through
>>
>>2221719
>>Press on with the Right Wing as the left continues to try to breakthrough

When in doubt attack!
>>
>>2221719
>Press on with the Right Wing as the left continues to try to breakthrough
>>
>>2221719
> Press on with the Right Wing as the left continues to try to breakthrough
>>
> Press on with the Right Wing as the left continues to try to breakthrough

>writing
>>
>>2221719
Attack! You can't let the attack stall
>>
The Right Wing is ordered to press on and does so with fire and fury. The bark of rifles and chatter of machine guns splits the tranquil air on the second day of the attack. The Yeoman Cavalry, true to style, drives ahead with their attack, outpacing the Welsh infantry backing them up, reaching a low ridgeline north of Tiverton where hasty defenses are being prepared. The Royalists weren't fast enough. They are overrun by the Yeoman, many dying where they stood, others fleeing haphazardly to the south toward Tiverton abandoning unfinished positions. Lord John Seymour urges haste, driving his men onward, leading from as near the front as possible in one of the new Bristol-manufactured armored cars. Soon enough, the Yeomen reach the outskirts of Tiverton. Because of its placement, the crossroads at Tiverton must be seized in order to continue the advance south and trap the enemy in Cullompton.

With no time to waste, John orders them forward and into a withering rail of machinegun fire from the town. The first few groups of riders who attempt to cross in the open are mowed down like wheat. Successive waves advance dismounted and with the support of a handful of armored cars advancing down the main road.

After the snipers and machine gun posts are cleared out, fighting becomes house to house, with rare reports the cavalrymen's sabers being used in particularly close quarters. After several hours of bloody fighting, John withdraws the Cavalry to be supplanted by the Welsh mercenaries of ap Gwynedd's force that finally caught up. The Yeoman cavalry is horribly bloodied and exhausted from their tireless ride, but they still have miles to go to finish ensnaring the enemy.

(1/2)
>>
File: Action of Day 2.png (1 MB, 1254x879)
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In the center, Lord Osbourne maintains his cautious skirmishing with the enemy, not opting to exhaust his forces on a frontal attack until the two wings have enveloped the Royalists completely.

To the South, the Left Wing under Lord Park manages to break through in Honiton successfully with significant difficulty. Casualties in some units approach 50%, but the enemy must be in worse condition. The fighting around this area was fierce and prolonged as both sides sought to control the town, leaving much of it ruined by shellfire and close range fighting.

Late in the afternoon on the second day, aerial reconnaissance over Exeter snaps photographs of a large body of Royalist forces amassing, preparing to march to the relief of th troops in Cullompton. Conventional wisdom holds that this is the last reserve of the Cornish/Devonian force here.

Your forces are exhausted, both the Left and Right Wings having fought tirelessly, but this appearance of fresh troops threatens to upset your plans by striking the flank of one of your encircling wings if they continue their double envelopment. It might be possible to stall, blunt, or stop this force with a spooling attack by one of your Wings, but both are well worn from their two day slog so far.


>Urge best speed, encircle the enemy before they counter attack (ignore their reinforcements)
>Break off John and the Right Wing to deal with the counter attack
>Break off Park and the Left Wing to deal with the counter attack
>Attack Cullompton with the center to break them (Abandon the encirclement)
>Write in
>>
>>2221825
What are the strengths in the centre? The left wing seems pretty bloodied.

How about the mercs on the right? Could they valiantly be volunteered to try and go ahead to block this counter attack while the rest of the forces carry on?
>>
>>2221837
>Strengths in center
Numerically?

It's estimated you're slightly outnumbered in the center. 4 Yorkist regiments face an estimated 6 Royalist Regiments

The mercs on the right could do it, but there are only 2 regiments of them and they would be outnumbered. They could buy time, by casualties would likely be horrendous.
>>
>>2221868
Well that's why I'm suggesting mercenaries. Better we lose them than some of our own units. The yeomenry seem mauled.

Short of haulting our attacks and digging in it seems we are going to take grievous losses
>>
>>2221899
Is that your vote?

>Delay the Royalist counterattack with Mercenaries

?
>>
Where are they getting these numbers from? I didn't think Devon and Cornwall were that heavily populated.
>>
>>2221928
They're not, but really You're facing like 20-40 thousand people. Not terribly hard to scrounge up.
>>
>Urge best speed, encircle the enemy before they counter attack (ignore their reinforcements)

Can't think of anything else....
>>
>Urge best speed, encircle the enemy before they counter attack (ignore their reinforcements

By virtue of being the only vote

>Writing
>>
>>2221957
It was going to be my vote too
>>
File: Action of Day 3.png (1.1 MB, 1332x834)
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You order John to ignore the advancing enemy forces, they can't possibly be in serious enough numbers to threaten to derail your plans. Mid-morning on the third day, the Yeoman cavalry reach Crediton and push east toward the M5 with the intention of cutting the only route out of Cullompton left open. Shortly afterward, just around the time the Welsh are marching in, the counter attack from Exeter arrives, a few regiments of militia and rear-area troops, hardly front line caliber.

But, given the exhaustion of the Welsh, they are nearly evenly matched and a pitched battle ensues as both forces struggle for control of the town.

In the countryside east of Exeter, the Left Wing is likewise engaged by a ragtag counter attack from Exeter and more or less halted in place, too exhausted to break through. Most of their armor and tanks have been left behind on the field around Honiton due to damage and mechanical failure.


Now, on the evening of Day 3, your army stands poised, albeit only barely, to surrender Cullompton. Your Retinue guard stands ready in Tiverton to fall on the enemy flank, and Osbourne's Center is ready to press forward and smash the enemy. Such an attack will likely be costly in lives, but it is the most surefire way to destroy the enemy army here, leaving only whatever token force they have left in Barnstaple or in the city of Exeter. Of course, doing so may wreck your own army. A frontal assault against a prepared enemy could be murderous, but your flanking forces are also stretched terribly thin and may fall apart trying to apply too much pressure.


>Press with the center
>Press with just the flanks
>We'll hold and dig in, try to starve them out
>Write in
>>
>>2222031
Very small note, the M5 didn't exist until 1962.

Press with the Center. All's to plan.
>>
>>2222031
>>Press with the center
>>
>>2222031
>>Press with the center

With the retinue falling on their flank I should think it might incite a general route, giving them the false notion that they're entirely encircled.
>>
>>2222031
>>Press with the center
It's likely now that the main enemy force has lost most if not all communications with their reinforcements from Exeter, apply pressure and they'll break.
>>
>>Press with the center

If it fails we're all types of screwed but I can't imagine as worn out as we are the other side is doing any better. I get the feeling this is going to be our last action before we have to stop and regroup. Both sides are on their last legs.
>>
>>2222053
>the M5 didn't exist until 1962.
Fully aware. I'm too lazy to make/find detailed, period-accurate maps. This is my compromise.
>>
>Press with the center

>writing
>>
File: Action of Day 4.png (917 KB, 1096x828)
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The trap is sprung, the deadly machine in motion, it can't be called off. Today, the Army of Devonshire would die on the battlefield. A general attack is signaled by the detonation of artillery shells and the blast of whistles as Lord Osbourne's men leave their defensive entrenchments behind and rush for the enemy, infiltrating forward using any cover they can find in the tangled English countryside. In the open, forces trade rifle fire and in close quarters grenades blast the enemy out.

On the Devonian left, your Retinue falls on their flanks, relatively fresh from seizing Tiverton, wreaking havoc as they begin to roll their line. Initially little progress is made for a high toll in blood, but soon your armored forces come into play, grinding hedgerows and houses to splinters and they advance, cannons barking death.

It is around Cullompton that some of the first reported tank-on-tank combat takes place on English soil.

An aging warhorse, the 'Lady Taunton' armed with two 6-pounder guns engaged and destroyed two smaller tankettes painted in Devonian Livery, carrying only .303 machine guns in a ten minute duel around a dilapidated farm house.

To the south, the militia counter attack has been stopped, albeit barely by the remains of the Left Wing and the Welsh on the right. Among the Welsh there are high reports of desertion as many decide the money isn't worth it and take to foot.

The real damage to enemy morale is done in the rear by several swift actions by the remains of the Yeoman Cavalry. By this, the 4th day, much of their horse-mounted component has been cut down or lost to exhaustion. Instead, much of the action is undertaken by armored cars and lorries carrying infantry. These swift raids devastate the Royalist rear areas. However, it's not enough to completely seal off the roads west and there are numerous reports by your pilots flying over the battlefield of Devonian troops fleeing west in small groups.

By the end of the 4th day, Lord John Seymour telegraphs you.


ORGANIZED RESISTANCE IN CULLOMPTON IS FINISHED. FIGHTING IS NOW HOUSE TO HOUSE. BY THE GRACE OF GOD, COME TOMORROW EVENING CULLOMPTON WILL BE OURS.

JOHN.

The small town has been utterly annihilated in the fighting leaving only splintered timbers and scattered stones surrounded by earthworks and shell holes.

With the Army of Devonshire decimated, the prize of Exeter stands before you. By day after tomorrow, John believes it should be free to advance into, though some resistance will still remain. However, your army is exhausted and bloodied, it may be prudent to rest your forces before advancing into what could become a meat grinder.


>Advance into Exeter first opportunity
>Hold and recuperate before advancing
>We will advance and besiege Exeter
>Write in
>>
>>2222154
>We will advance and besiege Exeter
Damn, gas would be useful right now.
>>
>>2222154
>We will advance and besiege Exeter
We've smashed their army in the field, if we appear still strong and offer terms at this point, they'll likely yield the city.
>>
>We will advance and besiege Exeter
>>
>We will advance and besiege Exeter

>Write in
>>
The Army of Devonshire is in disarray and mostly mopped up over the 5th day. There are repeated reports of large enemy units slipping away, companies and even battalions. They are passing through large, un-closeable gaps in your line, but all-told probably don't equal more than a regiment or two.

Instead of trying to hunt them all done, Exeter is invested, your forces surrounding the city and digging in as the militia units fall back inside, again, not amounting to more than a small handful of regiments.

John has a rider under white flag bring his terms into the city. The city will destroy its defense works, secure its weapon stockpiles and industrial facilities and accept the Army of Somerset. The commoners in the army could go free after their arms were surrendered, but the nobles in arms would be captured and taken to Bridgwater to be dealt with later.

The city leaders demure over this decision while many in the city evacuate by ship. Your airplanes get practice attacking shipping from the air with machine guns and improvised bombs, but aren't enough to totally stem the tide.

After two days of siege and some minor bombardment, the city leaders agree to John's terms and surrender.

The remains of the Army of Devonshire, little more than just a few decimated regiments, withdraws further west toward Cornwall, abandoning Devonshire to the Yorkist armies.

While the taste of victory is sweet, it's tempered by the bitter realization of the cost. Both the Left and Right wings were devastated by the heavy fighting and the Welsh nearly entirely wiped out, down now to a single brigade. Another fresh round of heavy recruitment incentive would prove necessary, or perhaps even forcible conscription from your new territories in Devonshire and Wiltshiure.

Now with Devonshire totally abandoned to you, the task of occupying and pacifying falls to you. All the while, Christmas approaches . . .


***

Thanks for play guys!

I'm out of time today but I plan to continue same time next week. 7 EST (11 UTC) on Thursday. If there are any questions or comments, feel free to let me know.
>>
>>2222219
Thanks for running, always a good read
>>
>>2222219
Thanks for running, could we Red Wedding all of our relatives?
>>
Odd thought, but it seems that general event in this world happen about 500 years later than in our does....does that mean the battle of Hastings was fought with pike and shot?

And the English Civil War will be fought using laser guns? Because that'd be kind of cool.
>>
>>2222259
There will be no Civil War (besides this one) because England will stay Catholic.
>>
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>>2222226
yeah man! My pleasure.

>>2222233
>Kin Slayer
certainly! If it has the votes.

>>2222259
Interesting thought, hadn't looked at it this way. But I'm willing to consider pike and shot Hastings canonical.

>>2222264
>England will stay Catholic.
God be with you, son. Deus Vult.
>>
>>2222219
Thanks for running mate, looks like next time will probably be dedicated to reorganisation and reinforcement, we'll probably have to build up the size of our armies in general to successfully secure both our own territory and Devonshire.
>>
>>2222274

And the Third Crusade was fought with muskets, bayonets, canons and powdered wigs, all the new Inventions of the age. Richard the Lion Heart with a Powdered Wig and a Tricorn Hat along with his glorious Red Beard....
>>
>>2222280
My pleasure! I suspect you're right. Logistics is how wars are won or lost.

>>2222295
Now that's an idea!
>>
>>2222362
Indeed, and as an anon that's been pushing to up our logistical capabilities so far I'm glad to see it starting to pay off. That said, the next couple months could be tricky, we'll be spread out and thin on the ground, trying to manage newly conquered territory, defend our borders and also rebuild our forces.

Interestingly, that might end up giving us a compelling non-meta reason for switching to a battalion rather than regimental system, as with more ground to cover and less troops to do it, smaller and smaller dispositions will likely find responsibilities left upon their shoulders. Additionally, if we run into manpower shortages one way around them is to focus on instead of line combat troops, the force multiplier support around them. At the moment I imagine stuff like crew served MMGs and HMGs, mortars, trucks, and casualty clearance staff are at the regimental level, while artillery, recon, artillery, AA guns, recon, field hospitals and ambulances, armoured support etc. are at the Brigade, whereas increasing their concentration so each of our battalions suddenly has access to the support assets of a regiment, while the Brigade has twice as much as royalist equivalents, we could effectively let far less men punch at a far higher weight class, and with increased mobility due to being smaller units with greater mechanisation. But we'll see how things pan out.

One thing that has been proven without a doubt is that we need to mechanise our cav in full as those armoured cars and lorried infantry kicked serious arse, and also recruit at least another regiment or two of them, perhaps converting our Retinue infantry to lorried rifles as a halfway measure at least.
>>
>>2222460
>One thing that has been proven without a doubt is that we need to mechanise our cav in full as those armoured cars and lorried infantry kicked serious arse, and also recruit at least another regiment or two of them, perhaps converting our Retinue infantry to lorried rifles as a halfway measure at least.
Agreed. Mobility combined with firepower renders them very useful to us.


However I feel we must consider a particular event: the first tank-on-tank combat of our war occurred and we lost. Admittedly to be expected given that it was two of our tankette's fighting a "proper" tank but the fact is this means we are going to see more and more combat between tank crews as this war continues and efforts on both sides intensify.

Which given our mix of either extremely light or outdated tanks, puts us at a disadvantage should the royalists have even a few modern tanks. However I feel we can in turn counter this issue by making use of our airforce to bomb any such assets. Alternatively, we need to consider purchasing some armoured assets specifically to engage and eliminate enemy tanks.
>>
>>2222473
Bro it's the other way round; WE won the tank fight
>>
>>2222473
> "An aging warhorse, the 'Lady Taunton' armed with two 6-pounder guns engaged and destroyed two smaller tankettes painted in Devonian Livery, carrying only .303 machine guns in a ten minute duel around a dilapidated farm house."
We won that duel anon with an old antique 10 years war Mark V-esk tank, the more modern tankettes were Devonian, the enemy.

That said, yeah, picking up more modern tanks is something to plan for in the future, but I don't believe it's immediately pressing. We might also want to consider not bothering and instead filling the gap with oldschool tanks for the infantry and heavy armoured cars for the cav. (Something like the Humbers II-IV or Daimler AC, armed with either a large HMG or AT gun) The former will be slow and the latter worse off-road than tracked vehicles and generally more lightly armoured, but they'll be a lot cheaper alternatives to modern tanks.

On a completely meta note, we should also invent the Universal/Bren Carrier, though someone figuring out 'what if we made those tankettes a little bigger and let people ride on them, that'd be pretty neat' isn't too hard to fathom, hell it may have been done during that battle anyway.
>>
>>2222473
>the first tank-on-tank combat of our war occurred and we lost.

>>2222154
>An aging warhorse, the 'Lady Taunton' armed with two 6-pounder guns engaged and destroyed two smaller tankettes painted in Devonian Livery

didn't our tank kill two enemy tankettes? Or am I retarded?
>>
>>2222483
>>2222485
>>2222486
>Bro it's the other way round; WE won the tank fight
Shit my mistake.


>>2222485
>That said, yeah, picking up more modern tanks is something to plan for in the future, but I don't believe it's immediately pressing.
True, there are ways to deal with the need for resilient mobile firepower but the unreliability of our old model tanks and the "lightness" of the tankette's means we need a replacement in the works before it becomes a problem.

>We might also want to consider not bothering and instead filling the gap with oldschool tanks for the infantry and heavy armoured cars for the cav. (Something like the Humbers II-IV or Daimler AC, armed with either a large HMG or AT gun) The former will be slow and the latter worse off-road than tracked vehicles and generally more lightly armoured, but they'll be a lot cheaper alternatives to modern tanks.
I suppose but the inability to actually slug it out with another tank, as the war goes on and tanks continue to advance, will become a ever greater problem.
>>
>>2222553
I suppose but the inability to actually slug it out with another tank, as the war goes on and tanks continue to advance, will become a ever greater problem.
True, it's more an interim solution to save on the expense of developing true tanks until we've addressed more pressing issues like general mechanisation, modernising our air power, proliferation of radios, so on so forth. And you know, by the time those kind of tanks start showing up those kind of heavy ACs will be approaching their shelf life for frontline combat anyway and can be shuffled into recce roles, converted into command/AA/TD/SPG/Miscelaneous Support roles or so on so forth.
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>>2222553
>>2222561
And I forgot to put your quote in greentext, oops. Have a UC as compensation.
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>>2222553
>>2222561
Also I bet ever other major noble in England is facing the same issues regarding balancing modernizing their armies within economic capabilities so I'm not too worried about anyone having modern tanks yet unless they can afford the cost.
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>>2222565
Speaking of such things, I think at Christmas with the soon to be king (possibly), we should pitch a pair of ideas: A 'Royal' Air Force and a 'Royal' Navy. Recon and CAS planes are fine for local commanders I guess, but as things get more modern with longer ranges, radio communications etc. increasingly the favoured side will be one that can bring the most and coordinate it the best in the air when it comes to fighters and strategic air raids. A centralised air force would help with that immensely and also soften the blow of the huge cost of aviation by letting us all standardise on a relatively narrower set of models of plane, built to standards with matching logistical elements so on so forth. The savings could be immense especially if the war drags on.

A Royal Navy is basically the same pitch except even more. Botes cost a LOT of money and time to design, build and run, and anything destroyer and a powerful, centrally administrated fleet would not only massively boost Harold's prestige, it could also let us potentially strike with near impunity at 'loyalist' holdings by establishing our rulership of the waves.

Of course, this means we would have to give up a bit of control, as would other vassals, and indeed, could bit us in the arse down the line, but overall I think the risk is well worth it, and once other lords do the math I think they will too, especially if/when it starts to pay off in victories.
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>>2222568
Makes sense, but it seems kind of meta-y and I like the anachronistic vassal armies system.
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>>2222569
Not too 'meta-y' really, as the concept of centralised navies wasn't new and I just can't see private duchies and such being able to fund true modern air forces and navies and once they realise they'd be bankrupted trying to run the new planes being designed, or literally just building a single battleship, I think it would pretty swiftly occur to the other lords that maybe pooling resources is the way to go, at least while the war's happening.
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>>2222569
Suppose I should also add that I like the vassal armies stuff too, I'm just not sure if it could conceivably work outside of the armies.
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>>2222473
>>2222483
>>2222485
>Tank fight

Two of Lady Taunton's crew were wounded in the fight by armored spallation in the interior caused by machine gun fire. The crew has been mentioned for meritorious service.

>>2222568
>>2222569
>>2222570
>>2222571
>Boats n' Planes

Yeah, it's horrifically expensive, but to many nobles, the alternative is worse. As it stands, the "Royal" government is pretty decentralized, you, the nobles, are holding many of the cards as it were. If you WERE to propose and implement such a system, it would mean a heavier tax burden for you and your subjects.

It's doable, but there would be a cost, and people would resist.
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Best not rock the boat too much. Acting like an overbearing tyrant and pushing nobles out of power is what caused the first round of fighting in the first place.
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Hmmmm... Ok, guys, some strategy time.

Theoretically speaking, operational patterns exist on a sliding scale between "attrition" and "relational maneuver" tactics, where the former relies on mass, the latter on forcing the enemy to fight at a disadvantage in some way (by surprise, flanking, raids, infiltration, stratagem, ambush, etc.). Here's the deal. When attrition tactics fail, they do so GRADUALLY - casualties are taken, but generally the remaining forces can assess and possibly disengage. When relational maneuver tactics fail, they do so CATASTROPHICALLY - meaning all at once, and generally the forces involved take heavy casualties or are nearly wiped out to little profit (consider MacArthurs landings at inchon as an example - it was an insane move because his forces could have EASILY been wiped out at first). HOWEVER, the reason relational maneuver tactics are so cool is because when they work, they can be FANTASTICALLY successful in relation to the size of the forces involved.

So, here we stand, with our forces at a possible disadvantage in terms of attrition tactics. We are overstretched, have taken heavy casualties and are tired. One or two fresh front-line brigades (3-6 regiments) could probably kick our ass relatively cheaply.

I propose a shift.

I propose while we are rebuilding our forces we switch to relational maneuver tactics to enable us to do disproportionate damage with only a small percentage of our overall force. I propose we detail small groups of raiders and infiltrators to fuck up the enemys rear areas, cut communications, ambush patrols, assassinate officers, disrupt marshalling yards, sabotage factories, etc. We could easily equip 1-2 squad teams with armored cars or civilian transport and have them run amok in the enemy's rear. With the firepower and mobility afforded by the transport even 1 squad could likely produce many times its number in casualties. GRANTED, this is high risk for the men we pick. But even at 50% casualties, its likely a battalion will disable at least a regiment and disrupt several more.

We also want to keep our massed forces in being, for now. The threat they pose will keep the royalists from dispatching small forces to hunt our raiders in turn.
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>>2222768
I forget, does England have much of a colonial empire in this timeline?

We might be able to squeeze some money out of them.

Alternatively, we could invade Ireland and levy a war tax on the nobility which is just never lifted - as we need to prepare for the next war with France.
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>>2223709
All of this is feasible, if it gets the votes and supports.

>>2223897
>Colonial Empire
None sadly.
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>>2223709

(Con't)

As an idea for what i have in mind, look up Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck's defense of German East Africa during WWI. Initially when on defense he spread his forces (prussian-trained native riflemen with the odd machinegun) in company sized packets. When enemy forces made contact (usually a lead battalion), the company in contact would hold firm while neighboring companies would concentrate, defend (retreating when necessary, IIRC) and then counterattack. These tactics caused heavily casualties among the british, in part because they attacked dumb, but also because the German "askaris" (native riflemen) were superbly trained, and held their ground when outnumbered.

The part of the conflict most relevant to my idea came from the second phase of the defense, when Lettow-Vorbeck needed to shift to a purely guerilla campaign. By dividing his men into squads and assigning each squad separate targets he was able to negate the typically concentrated Allied defenses, and inflict a great deal of damage. The end result was diverting hundreds of thousands of troops to try and suppress these attacks.
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>>2224562
It also lost him the terrain though. Lettow-Vorbeck was able to confound the British ability to fully secure the terrain, but he also completely sacrificed his own ability to make use of the industry/people/resources beyond to simply supply his existing troops.

It's a wholly different situation and there's no need yet to switch to those kind of tactics. Instead we should just consolidate, reinforce, reorganise and expand over the Winter.
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>>2223956
Well dam.

Any chance you could give us a larger political map of Europe?

Also, how strong is Ireland / Scotland? Are they both also ruled by constitutional monarchies?
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>>2224774
>Any chance you could give us a larger political map of Europe?

It would honestly be really difficult given the fractured nature of some of the other countries out there. It might be easier for me to answer any questions you may have.

>>2224774
>Also, how strong is Ireland / Scotland

Scotland has a traditional monarchy liek England or France, it held its own against England in the Ten Years War, mostly because of the focus on France. It's not as powerful as united England, but is a local power certainly.

Ireland is internally divided. On paper, it has a king, in practice the nobles there are frequently at war with one another for one reason or another.
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Huh, well I was curious about that.

Same guy who suggested Battle of Hastings with Pike and Shot and the Crusades with Muskets and Powdered Wigs.

Last one. Scottish War of Independence. (William Wallace) Napoleonic War tech with the new technological introduction being the rifled musket.
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>>2224714

Your description is accurate, but you misunderstand my proposal. I propose to imitate Lettow-Vorbecks TACTICS, not his STRATEGY, as there is no need to shift that far yet (because we arent losing). My STRATEGY has more to do with Nathaniel Greene, who fought in the southern colonies in the Revolutionary War. He used irregular forces to SUPPORT his regular forces, thus putting General Gage (IIRC) on the horns of a dilemma: does Gage disperse his men in penny-packets to fight Greene's guerilla fighters, which would leave himself vulnerable to Greene's regular forces, or does Gage remain concentrated to counteract Greenes regular forces, and get nutshot by the guerillas? Ultimately, the dilemma was unsolvable (by Gage, no less - the best general the British had at the time) and Gage started attacking vulnerable northern colonies in an effort to force Greene to concentrate his forces so Gage could fight them. In a rather cold move, Greene refused, and Gage ran amok but withdrew from the south, thus allowing a secure base for the continental army and spelling the beginning of the end for the British.

So there is no misunderstanding, i propose to dispatch a couple battalions of highly mobile raiders with orders to fuck up the enemy to keep them off of us. This will give the enemy three bad choices:

One, go after the guerillas - when that happens, we start attacking their highly dispersed forces with our own (diminished but still effective) concentrated regular forces and score easy victories.

Two, turtle up to keep guerillas off them while they await regular attack - this cedes the initiative to us and lets the raiders operate effectively unopposed in any area the enemy isnt actively standing on, thus making the royalists look like losers and letting us starve them.

Three, the enemy continues to operate as before, putting regular forces in the field against ours - thus leaving themselves vulnerable to our raiders, as they will be too concentrated to hold everywhere at once. While they will hold a few strong points, everything from recruitment to supply is left vulnerable to us.

By continuing to offer battle on our terms with what forces are still effective, we seize and maintain initiative and force the enemy to deal with a hard-to-deal-with threat instead of attacking our regular forces. It will buy us time to recruit and reorganize at the cost of relatively few men.
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>>2224562
The defense of Tanganyika isn't a good example. We can't afford to give up land, and we're not in terribly rough hard to handle terrain. L-V was delaying the British and tying up their resources, his tactics would never have won that conflict.
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>>2226007
That might fly in the provinces, the US and Africa being full of wide open spaces and vast distances between strongpoints, but Britain is a great deal more compact. Further, neither of those two generals ever had to deal with airplanes-- small unit maneuvers without sufficient air coverage is very rapidly becoming suicidal.
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Oioi
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Interesting
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>>2224957
I'm a little curious myself on the state of America. Was there a Revolutionary War fought between Knights charging each other with swords and shields? Did Andrew Jackson launch a Crusade to convert the native americans to Christianity? Is the US still a Republic or something else right now? I know it doesn't matter much for our purposes, but I'm just genuinely curious what that part of the world looks like.

On a more practical note, could you tell us more about the fate of the Welsh mercenaries we hired? Is the rest of Cornwall also under our control in addition to Devonshire?
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>>2226014

I suspect you missed my point. We're not trying to give up land for time, we're dividing raiders into penny packets (1-2 squads, no more than a platoon) and forcing the enemy to choose either to redeploy to fight the raiders, or stay deployed to fight us, either way creating a vulnerability we can exploit.

In any event, delaying, tying up forces, and gaining time is EXACTLY what we need at this moment until we bring our core regiments back up to strength.
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>>2226052

You are correct that Britain is more compact, and that offers advantages and disadvantages. Advantages include the ability to blend in with locals more easily, ease of support from regular units, ease of retreat or supply and reduced transport requirements.

Disadvantages include a higher operational tempo, and difficulty in assuring security for units in uncontrolled territory during operations. That said, I'm wondering how planes of this era will be anything more than a nuisance against dispersed troops, or conduct recon effectively at night or in contested territory. I mean, if we give our guys armored cars, ok, that could be somewhat noticeable during the day if planes were hunting specifically for them in open terrain. However, two squads of cavalry look pretty much like any other two squads of cavalry. We really only need to worry about planes spotting our battalions, not our raiders.
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>>2226721
>America

America is technically a republic, but in actuality more like a "merchant republic" int hat wealthy oligarchs call the shots there. They make money hand over fist funding European wars so they have little incentive to get involved themselves.

As for the distant past, I'd be hesitant to speculate since alternate history can spiral out of control quickly. I can say that America never had anything liek a revolutionary war since the English government didn't colonize it, it was handled by private citizens/companies and grew from there. There was never any Crown interference hence their pre-disposition to business and lack of traditional aristocratic society.

>Devonshire and Cornwall

Devonshire is de facto under your control since the Army of Devonshire is destroyed/scattered to the wind. A small core of forces centered aroudn Barnstaple's defenses, have withdrawn toward Cornwall. It's a safe assumption that they're digging in along a narrow point between Devon and Cornwall or maybe withdrawing to Plymouth to try and escape. Not much details is known.
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>>2226900
The RAF fucked the mad mullah up pretty badly in like the 20's; if not earlier. I'm sure they could do damage in a much denser country like England
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>>2227009
>in actuality more like a "merchant republic" int hat wealthy oligarchs call the shots there
Haha just like real life, am I right fellow redditors?
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>>2227150
Probably like the old Venice Republic. Just Replace Doge with President.
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>>2227883
Doge Frederick of Roosevelt
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>>2228498
Doge Carnegie
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>>2228498
>>2228812
The Patrician Houses of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, Roosevelt, and Morgan.
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Just read through the archives and I'm loving it. Onward to Lands End lads!
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Anyone want to try and shop the Doge hat on Johnny Rockerfeller Jr.?
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>>2231081
i got you senpai
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>>2228867
This is accurate.

>>2231056
Glad you're enjoying! There's still more to come

>>2231112
Well done.
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>>2231112
Well I stepped into that one....




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