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/r9k/ - ROBOT9001


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Every few months I drop by to do one of these threads and they're usually pretty popular. I am a Jungian mystic of eclectic paradigms and traditions, and I will be here for the next couple of hours to answer any (serious) questions you may have.

First, I'll explain what mysticism is for those who haven't participated before. In the Aristotlian model, there are three ways of obtaining knowledge: empiricism, rationalism, and revelation. The application of pure empiricism is science, the application of pure rationalism is philosophy, and the application of pure revelation is mysticism. Mysticism, then, is the use of internal, non-logical, unconscious processes to obtain knowledge. This can be in the form of dreams, hunches, intuition, imagination, and so on. It does NOT necessarily mean anything supernatural or paranormal, so please don't say "/x/ is that way" and so on -- although I'm sure someone will, because someone always does.
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>>39035368
>namefag
fucking dropped
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>>39035368
How do you cure severe depression with "mysticism"?
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>>39035380
Do you see a tripcode? I'm only using a name to make it easier to see responses to questions, something I found makes these threads easier to parse for people.
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I have a hunch that OP is being fake news.
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So why do you do this?

Why come here knowing whats going to happen?

Are you relative to gypsies?

How do you go about being a mystic and how do you discern whatever it is youre discerning?
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>>39035396
Are you sure you want a "cure"? Depression is something of a dark gift. The theory of depressive realism holds that depression is actually the removal of a filter which makes the world seem irrationally pleasant to everyone else. For example, psych studies show that people who are depressed have markedly superior judgement when doing tasks like estimating whether a given shape will fit a given hole; non-depressed people err constantly on the side of optimism.

One of the hypotheses about the cause of depression is that it's triggered by feelings of being trapped or helpless, and it that it's there to give you the most accurate, objective information possible to allow you to escape whatever circumstances you're in which you may not otherwise be able to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
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>>39035448
Yes, I'd rather be happy and stupid than smart and depressed. Ignorance is bliss. If I keep going on like this it's only a matter of time before I'll be an hero.
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>>39035436
I do this for the (increasingly small number of) intelligent, thoughtful robots who understand that there is more to the world than what appears on the surface, and who are not well-served by the ruling paradigm of naive materialism.

No, I am not Roma, but my mother was also a mystic -- although I didn't know this until near her death, since she'd promised my father that she would never discuss it with me. I had no idea that my intuitive abilities were probably inherited.

One "becomes" a mystic by adopting mysticism as the primary mode of understanding oneself and the world, the same way one becomes a scientist by adopting primarily science or a philosopher by adopting primarily philosophy. I've spent many, many years learning many different shamanic, magickal, and mystic traditions, which allows me to follow Jung's path and use comparison to sort out which rites and rituals have a practical use and which are just showmanship.
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>>39035488
The idea is that depression is the result of feeling trapped, and that the function of the depression is to give you the means to escape that trap. If you're feeling unrelenting depression, then you have failed to recognize the necessary knowledge you need.

The world is a workbook, and the Universe gives you a series of problems to solve, the answers to which produce knowledge and wisdom. If you fail to solve one of the problems, it is given to you again in a different form. And if you fail to solve that one, it is served up to you again and again and again, each time in a slightly different form, until you're able to solve it... at which time you're given whole new problems.

My suspicion is that you've failed to be quiet and patient enough to wait for the answer to the problem. Mysticism is about harnessing the machinery of the unconscious and putting it to work for your benefit. If you're constantly making noise and reaching for things and moaning about how terrible life is, you won't recognize the solution when it offers itself. You need to learn how to sit quietly and wait for what the Bible refers to as the "still, small voice of the Holy Spirit," that inner dialogue which suggests solutions to you.

My suggestion is to learn stillness, and then to learn how to meditate to take yourself out of yourself when necessary. Most major cities have a meditation centre which can teach you have to meditate, and if money is an issue, most roshis (teaching masters) will accept a respect offering of something like a bowl of oranges rather than turning someone away for lack of funds.
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>>39035368
When will the biggest mistake of my life occur and why? Also please describe the mistake, its causes, and effects in as much detail as possible.
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>>39035650
I'm not psychic, and I don't have magic powers. I'm a mystic. That means I have trained myself to trust my subconscious, and to use my subconscious to solve problems through the use of pattern recognition -- somtimes referred to as intuition.

But to answer your question, my intuition tells me from the tone of your question that you are contemptuous and bitter. It doesn't take Nostradamus to see that your biggest problems will be caused by your own self-loathing projected at the world. Spend more time with yourself, swim in your inner sea and become comfortable with your own nature. Learn to see beneath the illusion of your conscious identity and gain respect for your many selves hidden below the surface.

My suggestion to you is to take the heroic dose and visit with the self-transforming machine elves. It is a transformative experience, and those who have experienced it are never the same. It will help you to see beyond the wall you've erected in heart, the one which you believe keeps the world out, but in fact imprisons you inside.
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>>39035736
ay I thought this bread was kinda interesting and then you dropped the D-bomb.
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>>39035784
I have no idea what the "d-bomb" is.
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Does astral projection exist? If so, could you direct me to a video or site to learn it? I'm very interested in learning it as I have had a few experiences that were very similar to it when I was younger. The ability to gain that power would be amazing.
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>>39035800
DMT duh. anyways, the DMT world is quite strange in that it seems to be a spiritual place or is it just your brain hallucinating. of course once you do it again you realize the infinite "truth" or what fucking ever. you claim that it transforms you, but if you take a long break, the experience and epiphanies kind of fade and the daily grind of life just takes over...any thoughts? I guess I could use some advice as well, since I am not really satisfied with life and have a lot of anxiety regarding career and romance.
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>>39035834
not OP, but it's real if you believe it's real.
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>>39035834
Astral projection does exist, is very easy to do, but isn't what you think it is. Scientists are now able to consistently induce astral projection in the lab, and it turns out all you need to do is put VR goggles on someone, then send them a feed from a camera located above and behind one of their shoulders. Poof, instant out-of-body experience.

It turns out that placing our sense of self inside our heads is just a cultural prejudice. The Egyptians, for example, put their sense of self inside their hearts, since they saw their brain as merely a heat-dissipating organ. With practice you can move your sense of self anywhere you like inside or outside your body.

However, there's a good reason we generally place our sense of self close to our heads; it's where we have the most data for assembling a symbolic image of the world. The brain is very good as making guesses about missing data and wallpapering over the gaps, but the farther away you place your point of view, the less data you have to manufacture it. This is why, when you start putting your point of view really far away, you start seeing fantastical and dream-like imagery: the same part of your brain which creates dreams is wallpapering over the missing data -- which is nearly everything.
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>>39035368
Are the king/warrior/magician/lover categories legit?
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>>39035916
how the heck is that a legit out of body experience? sure, you are viewing things in the room from a different point of view, but you can't move around and do all the shit you can usually do when astral projecting.
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>>39035972
you can move and stuff in VR
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>>39035848
It is inside you. And it is a spiritual place. These are not mutually exclusive. In fact, neurobiologists have been studying the machine elves phenomenon because it is so remarkably consistent from person to person. They hypothesize that it represents direct experience of the part of the brain responsible for manufacturing representational reality from sense perceptions. The machine elves typically sing the world into existence in people's experiences, something which also occurs in a lot of aboriginal myth cycles and folklore.

In order to do this, it's necessary to destroy the illusion of self, to experience ego-death. There are many ways to get there, although the heroic dose is easiest and fastest. Meditation masters who achieve satori -- which is what they call ego-death -- usually begin spontaneously laughing, although they can't explain why when they return. It's probably related to the machine elves, as people who meet the machine elves describe that same sense of well-being.

In any case, people who pass through the golden chrysanthemum and visit the machine elves are nearly always transformed by the experience. Once you've experienced ego-death, you have begun to see beneath the surface of the world and have taken your first steps into mysticism, that dark internal sea with no bottom.
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>>39035924
First I'd have to know what you consider to be "legit." There are many different paradigms for understanding, and none are more perfect than any other. That is, they're all false simply because a map isn't the thing it's mapping. The very first line of the Tao Te Ching reads, "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao." It's a warning that the Tao can be experienced, but it can't be described. The attempt to describe a thing puts you at a remove from it, making all descriptions inaccurate.

That doesn't mean paradigms are useless, just that they're all inaccurate to greater or lesser degree, and that your acceptance of them should be based on their usefulness to you.
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>>39035972
The world you're experiencing *right now* is a symbolic representation. It's not real. It's an image constructed by your brain with symbolic imagery used to help you understand your sense perceptions. Much of what you're experiencing right now is false. For example, the place where your optic nerve connects to your eyeball has no rods or cones; you are blind in a spot in the middle of your vision. Your brain simply wallpapers over your blind spot. Likewise, the colour purple does not exist. The logistics of the way rods and cones work means that the colour where purple is, is already being used by another colour. Our brains manufacture purple as a "placeholder" to represent this colour we can't directly perceive.
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>>39036003
Thanks for the response. I do recall a sense of finally understanding some cosmic secret / joke on one particular trip. However, I have never experienced a chrysanthemum tunnel or machine elves. The thing is the sense of cosmic deja vu / well being isn't guaranteed and sometimes for me it's sheer terror at being in La La land for "eternity" and having to let go. Holy shit, just typing this brought the feeling of being in eternity back. Also, I didn't get any advice regarding my "problems", the other guy got a pretty good "psychic" / mystic reading and I'd like one too if it isn't too much trouble.
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>>39035601
>bowl of oranges
>Harashi-kun, I-i-i don't have any money
>P-p-p-please take these oranges.
>I put them in a bowl
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Spreading superstitious bullshit like this is why you should go kill yourself.
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You say a mystic is someone who depends upon their subconscious--the Jungian word would actually be unconscious, but we will let it slide--preferring personal revelation to empiricism or rationalism, and yet in almost every response you refer to scientific studies. I know your answer--I am mystic too, you see--and it will be you are just using all data available for pattern recognition, to incite a revelation, but what you are actually doing is just making premature conclusions based on other people's work pretending you are wise and all-knowing. It's an ego-trip. --Here, look at this study showing people who talk out of their arseholes are sublimating emotional dysfunction into lunacy! --It's errant fucking nonsense. Do a magic trick or fuck off. Yes I know I am arrogant, overly aggressive, etc, and I already know why.
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>>39036081
I think you're hitting what I call the "reset button." Often when I talk with people about this stuff, I can actually witness it happening; their eyes go sort of foggy and you can see their minds retreating into themselves and they're no longer really listening to you. This usually happens when you've brought them to a place where they start questioning the existential verities like self, identity, purpose, morality, and so on. It seems to trigger a very primal, instictive need to shut down the acceptance of new information, a kind of spiritual fight-or-flight reflex.

The Bible says that to achieve salvation we must become dead to the world and be reborn. What it means is that before it's possible to accept what your experiences are teaching you, you need to able to accept your own death. Death feels terrifying for those who haven't experienced it. But contrariwise, for those who have experienced ego-death many times, the visceral acceptance of impermanency and mortality is very matter-of-fact.

Chapter 50 of the Tao Te Ching puts it this way:

>The Master gives himself up
>to whatever the moment brings.
>He knows that he is going to die,
>and he has nothing left to hold on to:
>no illusions in his mind,
>no resistances in his body.
>He doesn't think about his actions;
>they flow from the core of his being.
>He holds nothing back from life;
>therefore he is ready for death,
>as a man is ready for sleep
>after a good day's work.

As long as you keep pressing the reset button out of fear, you're going to lose the benefits which come from understanding the illusion of self.
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>>39035368
Actually, philosophy is a science. "Pure empiricism is science", this is a deep bullshit, it doesn't mean anything.
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>>39036130
And there's the "go back to /x/" I predicted in my original post. Voila!

>>39036170
I use subconscious and unconscious interchangably (although you're right that I probably shouldn't) simply because I came to Jung, Campbell, Reich, Jaynes, et al. through Freud and the alienists originally, and I still use much of the Freudian and Adlerian models.

And since you've already explained what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for from me. Incidentally, just because I use mysticism as my primary mode of understanding doesn't mean I'm ignorant of science and philosophy; far from it. I believe that all three are necessary for achieving a kind of parallax, and that each compensates for weaknesses in the others.
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>>39036291
One can just as easily argue that science is a philosophy. Ceci n'est pas une pipe, friend. A map is not the thing it's mapping. If you have a different model and you find it useful, then by all means use it. But don't believe that your model is "true," since the very reality of it being model makes it fallacious.
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>>39036316
>Incidentally, just because I use mysticism as my primary mode of understanding doesn't mean I'm ignorant of science and philosophy
Except you aren't using mysticism as your primary mode, you fucking moron--or at the very least you haven't demonstrated any mystical inclination in this thread. A more accurate self-descriptor would be--I've read some religious texts and some scientific studies, let me quote it at you. There's no new, astounding revelations offered in this thread. What I want from you is either a grand revelation--not something scientific or philosophical--or an apology for making such a shitty thread.
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Why don't I have motivation?
Even if I want something I just can't become focused on it and do it.
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>>39036385
Why are you so angry? If I'm not giving you anything useful or true or entertaining, you're free to move on and ignore me. Clearly I don't agree with you, since I've spent the last several decades pursuing my personal understanding of revelation, and I make a small living from tarot readings. (I should add that I explain how tarot works -- apophenia -- to every querent before I do a reading, and that it's useless for telling the future, but very, very good at digging below the surface to read what's going on in the unconscious mind.) What would be an appropriate response from me, in your opinion?
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>>39036439
>Why are you so angry?
>What would be an appropriate response from me, in your opinion?
Not a very good mystic, desu. Otherwise you'd know.
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>>39035736
Lekker mystic boer
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>>39036403
If you're not doing it, it's because you don't actually want to do it. This isn't complicated. There are things you enjoy telling yourself that you want to do, but the fact is you don't really want to do them unless you in fact do them.

Understanding and satisfaction lies not in trying to force yourself to be and do what you aren't, but to learn what it is you DO want to do, and then do that. In Walden, Thoreau put it this way:

>"If one listens to the faintest but constant suggestions of his genius, which are certainly true, he sees not to what extremes, or even insanity, it may lead him; and yet that way, as he grows more resolute and faithful, his road lies. The faintest assured objection which one healthy man feels will at length prevail over the arguments and customs of mankind. No man ever followed his genius till it misled him. Though the results were bodily weakness, yet perhaps no one can say that the consequences were to be regretted, for these were a life in conformity with higher principles."
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>>39036448
I'm very good at reading people, since tarot relies on cold reading, on picking up people's subconscious reactions to the meanings of the cards and contructing a narrative by playing hotter-or-colder and watching for their reactions. When I do a reading, I put myself in a very light trance and connect my subconscious directly to my mouth, since the amount of data I have to pick up and interpret very quickly is well beyond anything my conscious mind could handle.

In person, I pick up eye movements, facial expressions, body language, word choices, breathing rate, and so on. Here, I can only read your words and guess what might be behind them. With such limited data, there's not much for my subconscious to work on.

Furthermore, I am paid to do tarot readings. At the end of the day, I usually feel like I've gone twelve rounds in the ring with Mike Tyson. All that subconscious processing takes a tremendous amount of very tiring effort. Since you're not paying me -- and in fact appear to hold me in complete contempt -- I am not inclined to spend much of my mental strength figuring out why you want to act like an asshole.
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>>39036467
Ouch. You might be right.
I'm basically forced to do the things because I need it for basic shit like work and relationships
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>>39036540
That's nice, my dude. I prick you so you spew self-aggrandizing nonsense about how good you are at reading people. Suppose someone behaved similarly with you--what would your diagnosis be, Mystic? Aye, I know and you know--we know. More, however--suppose someone kept responding to you--exerting energy--but claimed they don't want to spend mental energy? As if, indeed, mental energy is finite--something to be spent and lost--not a muscle exercised. Again, I think we both know the conclusion I am drawing at. Here is my revelation to you--and you will say you knew it already, of course--but it is that everyone uses their unconscious to navigate the world--it is the primary mode of being for everyone, with empiricism and rationalism enabling man to ascend higher. What you are doing is debasing humanity by attempting to equate unconscious intuition with actual rigorous thought. Go back to a dirty cave and die there.
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>>39036355
If you think science is a philosophy, you don't know the meanings of those two words.
All dogs are animals, but this doesn't mean all animals are dogs. If X -> Y, it doesn't absolutely mean that Y -> X.
Yours is a logical mistake, it's a bad argument.
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>>39036633
Chill
Just pretend it's fun LARPing time and go along with it
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>>39035368
Just wanted to know, is being a mystic a complete different lifestyle ? Like do you still hang out and play vidya or do you meditate and read people 24/7 and just come by here to instruct more people ?
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>>39036693
I LARP as an incredibly angry person.
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>>39036628
Have you considered just letting go? The very last words the Gautama Buddha spoke are, "Be a lamp unto thyself." What he meant is that most people spend their lives focusing their light outward, trying to do things and find things and solve things and seeking things. Instead, he suggests we should focus that light on ourselves, looking inward and attempting to manifest ourselves as strongly as possible. Instead of bumbling around hoping we find the things we want, by illuminating ourselves we become a beacon for others to find us. Those who find your light appealing will be drawn to it, and those things the Universe wants us to have will come to us.

If you don't have a job, maybe you'll be homeless. Maybe your genius lies in being a hobo or a bum. If you don't seek relationships, maybe you'll be lonely. Maybe your genius lies in hermitage and isolation. I'm not telling you to punch your boss and lay in a stock of piss bottles, I'm telling you to take a risk by doing those things you actually WANT to do and see where it takes you. Scary, I know, but are the consequences really worse than a life of unfilfilled misery?
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>>39036633
Your negativity is qlippoth. You're trying to draw on my strength as a way of amusing yourself. I think I'm going to end our discussion.
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>>39035368
What makes you a "Jungian" mystic?
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Idk why but i instinctively read mystic's messages in Cephalon Simaris's voice
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>>39036752
Listen up, you dumb motherfucker--I know the Lost Word of Horus--I know the Three Chaldean Calenders--the Gnostic Alphabet--I am an Initiated Priest of the Cult of Horus--and when I see amateur tarot readers bungling shit, my dear Lucifer--you know how my blood boils, kid? Like the boiling rivers of blood of Hell. You used the symbol--the eye and triangle--in the OP without knowledge or understanding. You're a fraud who is passing his guesswork off as revelation. I am sure you do earn a nice living, but I've got more mysticism in my anus, which is, by the way, the most mystical part of the body.
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>>39036697
There's a Zen koan: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."

Sure, I play vidya. I love me some Stardew Valley. I watch movies (I'm a huge cinephile), enjoy a small handful of TV shows, and argue in the comments of YouTube videos when I feel the need to rub my dick on a cheese grater.

But yes, I also live what most people would consider a non-traditional lifestyle. I live a life of voluntary simplicity for example. Everything I own will fit in a backpack. I have no fridge, no stove, no vehicle, no cellphone, no shower, no insurance, no savings, no pets, no close friends, no family, and I don't celebrate holidays or birthdays. I spend a lot of time alone and in quiet contemplation. I do a lot of lucid dreaming and read on average a book day -- as I've done for decades.
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>>39035368
Daylight hours make me feel like absolute shit. It's much worse during the summer. Even night hours make me feel ill. When I have to be up during a summer day, I literally feel like I'm dying. I slept 20 hours today because I had to be up two days in a row, not without sleep between them though.

What's up with this? Anything I can do to fix this? Even if it can't be fixed, I'd still like to know why this is happening.
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>>39036811
All that male energy. You do know the female is stronger, right? The Goetia make strong allies but poor masters. Thrice-Blessed Hermes transforms Will through the blood of the Moon. The wand goes into the cup, is enveloped and drawn in. Be water.
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>>39036815
That sounds interesting. I have a few other questions tho : do you have a job aside from tarrot ? Do you have a home ? Do you travel or stay at the same place ? Are you mostly alone or do you have many friends ? Sorry if these sound silly, i'm just a bit curious
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>>39036897
>I think I'm going to end our discussion.
Wew, kid. How can you expect to read anyone's unconscious? You can't even read your own. You certainly failed to read mine. I am very Female. Last weak my girlfriend gave me a facemask. My skin felt soft and lovely. Then she fucked me in my arsehole with a strap-on while I meowed like a cat. It's the gospel truth. You encounter one side so imagine the other side doesn't exist within me--that I am not in touch with it. Very, very foolish. Your mysticism is guesswork, and you are bad at guessing. Git gud.
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>>39036893
You're probably naturally nocturnal. I was. It makes sense that genes would be preserved within the community which give a small number of people their best energy at night, so as to make sure that the tribe is always protected by having a few people alert while the rest are sleeping.

Interestingly, experiments done with having people live in caves with no clocks or visible sunlight show that people actually have 25 hour internal clocks. Without outside cues, our circadian rhythms default to a 25 hour schedule in which we go to bed one hour later every day and wake up one hour later until we've cycled all the way around back to the starting point.

One thing which may help you, though; sleep cycles occur every 90 minutes. If you don't complete an entire cycle, you will wake up tired. Try to schedule your sleep in 90 minute intervals and that should help.
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>>39036216
Hmmm...the other dude got some straightfoward advice which was smoke some DMT. Mine is a bit more spiritual / philosophical and not really concrete advice. Makes sense coming from a Jungian Mystic...but I'd like some concrete steps please.
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>>39036976
I know I'm nocturnal, but I don't think diurnal people feel like they're dying when they have to be awake at night. I don't wake up to an alarm, so theoretically my natural sleep cycle should already wake me up at a 90 minute interval. Even if I used an alarm, I don't think I could time it right. Sometimes I can go to sleep after only a few minutes of laying down, other times I can lay for hours without falling asleep. It doesn't seem to matter how tired I am. because I could be exhausted to the point where I can't even move while laying down and still be waiting an hour before I actually pass out.
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>>39036762
Carl Jung was originally a child psychiatrist, but began noticing that all the children he worked with began spontaneously drawing mandalas at a certain age. (The simplest form of a mandala is a circle with two "crosshair" lines through it.) In doing research on the mandala, Jung discovered that every culture and every religion throughout history had some form of the mandala, and that it always meant the same thing: spiritual unity. He hypothesized that this symbol emerged from the actual structure of the human brain, and that it marked the point at which a child's identity coalesced into a single sense of self, of I.

This was how Jung started researching archetypes. Over many years, he investigated many different religions, shamanic rituals, paradigms of magick and mysticism, folklore, cultural narratives, and so on, and started to draw out the similarities between them. In this way he was able to figure out which rituals and rites had actual psychological effects and which ones existed just as window-dressing.

The Jungian model was greatly expanded upon by people like the sociologist Julian Jaynes and his bicameral mind theory of consciousness, Joseph Campbell and his work on the Hero cycle, and others. Being a Jungian involves not just the model of the psyche Jung developed in order to understand how the mind works, but using Jung's methods in figuring out which elements from many different cultures and religions and systems of philosophy are useful and can be adapted for personal use.

For me, personally, it also assists in cold reading when I'm doing tarot readings. Psychoanalytic techniques like reflection are extremely useful. Likewise, listening for cues like the use of negative language assist in seeing through to a person's Shadow, at which point you can begin understanding what's really going on below the mask they show the world.
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>>39037126
Not that anon but how do i defeat my shadow and anima? I feel like they're influencing me a lot
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>>39035601
I'm not the person you were talking to, but as a naturally quiet and still person, I get the thought that I should kill myself when I meditate. It's not a scary or discouraging thought, it really seems like it could be a legitimate answer. I don't see anything inherently wrong with death, as it's as natural as life itself, and I don't particularly enjoy anything in life. I have no long term goals, nor do I want any, and I have vowed to remain celibate as to not bring another conscious being into this world. So I'm basically already just sitting around waiting to die. I can't think of a single objective reason not to do it and the only thing keeping me alive is my biological imperative to keep living. I'm not looking to get talked into or out of doing it. I just want to be able to examine both sides objectively, which seems impossible to do from my conscious subjective view.
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>>39036940
I've had a lot of different jobs. I play at life. I've owned a marketing firm, hosted two radio talk shows, run for public office, spent a year homeless and living in a tent, been published as an author, run a record store, enumerated people for the reverse directory, organized unions, been to prison, climbed a mountain, and was once hunted through a swamp by a man with a shotgun.

I am and always have been a very solitary person. I've never needed a lot of friends. I enjoy my own company. Sometimes I go months without seeing another human being, but when I do choose to connect with someone, it's never for small talk. I rarely have conversations which last less than four hours, and on one notable occasion I spent more than 30 straight hours talking with someone at a 24 hour restaurant. The waitress who had served us the day before came in and saw us sitting in the same booth, wearing the same clothes, surrounded by coffee mugs and empty plates and asked incredulously if we'd been there all that time. We had.
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>>39035368

Where do I start to learn remote viewing?
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>>39037249
Are you the Canadian anon who organized that homeless union?
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>>39036991
Concrete advice: stillness. Stillness is an exercise one engages in before meditation, as a sort of palate-cleanser, but it has some benefits on its own. Stillness involves allowing yourself to be bored. Go into a room, close all the windows and doors, remove all clocks, watches, phones, radios, televisions, anything which could catch your attention. And just sit comfortably. That's all. Allow yourself to become bored as long as you can stand it, and then a little bit more.

In the beginning, most people can't handle more than two or three minutes of stillness, but over time you can increase it longer and longer. I can do six to eight hours of stillness. Meditation masters can do 24 hours or more. And remember, this isn't meditation, it's just allowing yourself to be bored.

The thing about stillness is it forces your brain to turn inward and cannibalize itself. At first, you will start fantasizing. You'll think about sex and power fantasies, and so on. Then you'll start thinking about the things which went on yesterday and the day before, and about relationships and your hopes and dreams, and so on. Eventually you may even start hallucinating and hearing voices, what they call "prisoner's cinema."

But if you can force yourself to endure the boredom for long enough, your brain will start drilling down, mining your own subconscious for something, anything to occupy itself. And when it does that, extremely alien thoughts will start popping into your head. The line between conscious and subconscious will start to dissolve, and the evasion structures you've been using to protect yourself from acceptance of the existential verities -- like your own mortality -- will collapse.
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>>39037126
>children he worked with began spontaneously drawing mandalas at a certain age
>every culture and every religion throughout history had some form of the mandala
>this symbol emerged from the actual structure of the human brain
Fug, I remember when I was a kid, I'd draw something similar every once in a while. The kicker is that despite mandalas being practically universally circular, mine were always rectangular. As a robot, obviously I'm quite a different person than the majority of society and never really fit in. Could something be deeply wrong with my psyche that made me a "square" ever since childhood while everyone else are "circles"?
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In regards to DMT

Always curious about the nature of drugs affecting the human conscious. Often evoking spiritual experiences, feelings described as divine. Pure? If experience is not the perception of reality but the totality of reality itself then we could say that these are truly divine experiences. Even though I have experienced these myself, I doubt it. It doesn't seem that experience is the whole truth. "Objectively", to ingest a substance and radically alter perception "tricking" the user into some spiritual affair. From my experience, the mundane everyday decisions are how we calibrate ourselves to the good. Good that can be sustained and good that is pure. Fulfilling. But drug use in any capacity is surely toxic. Shortcuts do not exist in this world.
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>>39037042
Do you have a spirit guide or a dream guide yet? Have you tried asking your guide about it? Sleep is... interesting. Dreams are one of the few opportunities you have to interact directly with your many selves. Disruptions of sleep which don't have a physiological source are often caused by conflict among your many conscious and unconscious selves, and your guide may be able to provide some insight into the source of the conflict.

If you don't already have a guide, I can provide some Jungian active imagination exercises which might assist in putting you in contact with a guide.

(As a matter of interest, my guide is Christina Applegate. No joke. It's a bit embarassing, but many years ago when I was trying to break through to the other side, I started noticing Christina Applegate appearing in my dreams over and over again. Eventually I managed to make myself lucid and asked her whom she was and why she was haunting my dreams, and she explained that she was my Anima -- my female-in-the-male -- and that she was there to assist me in getting in touch with my own emotional and spiritual self. It means that my unconscious regards Christina Applegate as the perfect woman, the yardstick against which femininity itself is judged.)
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>>39037462
How do I get a spirit or dream guide? I've been trying to lucid dream for years and have been trying all sorts of different methods, but nothing seems to work. At first I was getting really deep dreams where I would be on the verge of consciously waking up, but now it's just many shallow dreams. I remember at least 2 or 3 dreams every time I wake up (the most dreams I recalled from a single sleep session was 6), but they're like watching a movie I not only don't have control over, but am not even a part of.
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>>39037181
That's like asking how you can defeat your left arm or your pancreas. The Anima and the Shadow are *you*. You can no sooner "defeat" them than you can defeat your legs.

And I have some bad news for you anon. They're absolutely influencing you. In fact, they are controlling what you do, constantly. There's a psych study where they hook people up to brain scans, then show them coloured boxes on a screen and ask them to choose their preferred colour. The parts of the brain involved in visual interpretation and decision-making light up and go dark almost instantly. Then several seconds later, the person makes a conscious decision.

What this suggests is that ALL of our decisions are made almost instantly by our unconscious minds, and that the function of the conscious mind is only to rationalize a reason for that decision we've already made.

What you should be doing is find ways to connect with your Shadow and your Anima, to make peace with your selves. By recognizing the committee of You, you can begin expanding your sense of identity to include more elements of yourself, and you will no longer feel so betrayed by the parts of you that you can't consciously see.
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>>39037550
>What you should be doing is find ways to connect with your Shadow and your Anima, to make peace with your selves
How should i do that? Through dreams or active imagination? Should i imagine them as separate people?
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>>39035368
Define "popular"
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>>39037550
>That's like asking how you can defeat your left arm or your pancreas
You can defeat both by giving yourself diabetes.
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>>39037250
If you go up the thread a bit, you'll see I discussed how to induce out of body experiences.

>>39037301
Among many other things, yes.

>>39037397
That's exactly what psychoactive drugs are: a shortcut. The reason psychoactive drugs are able to alter consciousness is that they mimic chemicals which are either already present in the brain or which the brain is capable of manufacturing. This means there is nothing a drug can do which you can't already do yourself through meditation and biofeedback.

The benefit of getting to a particular floor of consciousness by taking the stairs rather than the express elevator is that, by the time you can reach that floor, you've developed the discipline and spiritual tools necessary to handle it. If you want to see what it looks like when people use drugs to short-cut their way to something they're not prepared to experience, do a search on YouTube for "salvia freak-outs". Salvia divinorum is a drug which has been used by seers, mystics, and shamans for millennia in order to achieve ego-death. If you have never experienced ego-death before, it feels exactly like dying -- because that's exactly what it is. And people's reactions to it are predictably horrified.
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>>39037538
The mistake most people make with lucid dreaming is failing to keep a dream journal. It's actually really easy to induce lucid dreaming, but unless you make dream journalling a habit the INSTANT you wake up, you forget that you ever had the dream within 15 minutes of waking.

As for acquiring a dream guide, all that should take is the desire to have one. If you're consistently keeping a dream journal, once it becomes habitual you'll start becoming more lucid. Eventually a guide should introduce itself to you simply out of you wanting and/or needing one.

And the movie metaphor is actually a really good one to have. I've mentioned I'm a bit of a cinephile, myself. I used to annoy dream characters by asking them what they represented, or asking them to clarify certain things in dreams. Christina Applegate eventually explained to me that I should just let the dream play out, and that she'd assist me afterward if I still needed assistance in interpretation. Now, when a dream is over, if there was something I didn't quite understand, I find myself in an old-fashioned movie theatre, the kind with big bucket seats and lots of crushed velvet and Ionic columns, sitting beside Christina Applegate. The curtains open and my dream begins playing up on the screen. As we share a bucket of popcorn, Christina and I discuss the elements of the dream and what they meant. Sometimes we go for a walk afterward through my dream geography, just chatting and connecting with each other.
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>>39035368
Do you worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
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>>39037740
>If you're consistently keeping a dream journal, once it becomes habitual you'll start becoming more lucid
How come?
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>>39037740
Does a dream journal really make that big of a difference? I always make sure to take a good half hour after waking up to think about my dreams in as much detail as I can and then think about them again later in the day so I don't forget them.

Oh and just so you know, even if I don't reply to every aspect of your posts, I have been reading them in their entirety and am glad you're sharing these details about your personal experiences. I just don't have anything to add to those kinds of aspects of a conversation and am terrible at talking to people in general.
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>>39037580
Lucid dreaming is a good way to do it, but you can use active imagination too. A simple technique I've sometimes used is coin tossing. You can coax simple yes/no answers from yourself with coin tossing. Of course, it's not the heads/tails which is important, but your interpretation of what the heads/tails means. You're projecting your own unconscious onto the coin toss, allowing you to communicate with your various selves.

There are more sophisticated forms of active imagination, however, for more complex and detailed communication.

Get a hat, one you can afford to lose. Say, out loud, "When I put this hat on, I am not me. I become the Anima/the Shadow/whatever part of yourself you are trying to reach. When I take it off, I become myself again."

Then put the hat on and begin babbling. Just make nonsense noises. Don't think about it. Just allow your mouth to make whatever sounds feel good coming out. It may take a while, and it may take more than one try, but eventually what will happen is the nonsense noises will become words, and then the words will start assembling themselves into phrases, and then, eventually, there will be a voice which is not your conscious self coming out of your mouth.

At this point you can begin communicating by taking the hat off and asking questions, then putting the hat back on. The reason you use the hat is as a form of auto-suggestion; if anything goes wrong, or the voice is angry and threatening, or you're feeling freaked out, all you have to do is take the hat off. And if you're really disturbed, you can burn the hat.
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>>39037753
>>39037800
The dream journal is absolutely critical. Trust me on this. Dreams are held in volatile, temporary memory. By writing them down, you're forcing the brain to transfer the dreams to a different part of the brain, one with longer term storage capability. If you do this consistently, the brain will adapt and begin storing dream memories differently. Over time, as you keep doing your dream journaling, the plasticity of the brain causes it to permanently alter the way it handles dreaming. But it has to become so habitual that you write your dreams in the journal without even consciously thinking about it.

Remember, it's easy to become lucid in a dream, and people do it all the time. You're probably already doing it -- possibly even several times a night. The problem is in remembering that you had it.
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>>39037746
Worship? No.

"This is what you shall do: love the earth and sun, and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence towards the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown, or to any man or number of men; go freely with the powerful uneducated persons, and with the young, and mothers, of families: read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life: re-examine all you have been told at school or church, or in any books, and dismiss whatever insults your soul." -- Walt Whitman
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>>39037824
>but your interpretation of what the heads/tails means
Could you explain this?
>Get a hat
Does this method actually works?
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>>39038011
There's a psychological phenomenon called "apophenia," which is the tendency for the brain to find patterns in things which don't actually have patterns. So, for example, if you stare at the snow on a dead channel on a TV for long enough, you'll start seeing geometric shapes in the snow. If you star at wood grain for long enough, you'll start seeing faces. These are both examples of apophenia (seeing faces is specifically referred to as pareidolia) you can try for yourself.

The interesting thing is that since there is no pattern in what you're looking at, your own brain will CREATE one by drawing from your own unconscious. So when you flip the coin, it's entirely random whether it comes down heads or tails. But you are attempting to read a meaning into the coin toss, so you're actually projecting your own unconscious onto it -- which is exactly what you're trying to do, induce the unconscious mind to communicate with you.

And yes, the hat method I described works, but why ask? You can try it for yourself and verify it one way or the other.
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>>39038077
>The interesting thing is that since there is no pattern in what you're looking at, your own brain will CREATE one by drawing from your own unconscious
That awfully reminds me when you looks to the big black dot in the middle of white sheet and then you start like hallucinate. Regarding anima and shadow i remember that jung says about treating them as a real people, not a hallucination. I guess the biggest questions is that, how to know whenever they want to help you or make even more damage to you.
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>>39035368
Hello Anon!
I was interested in these things since my early childhood and I had some "serious" (compared to an average human it's serious) experiences with dreaming, such as dreaming about the near future (Never more than 3-7 hours before the thing happens and I could never change it. For a few of these dreams I even have witnesses, because I told them my dream right before the thing happened).

So the real question is: I both believe and not believe in mystic things (rather not believe, even despite to the dreams mentioned above). Is there a way or method to train myself? It's very important for me to have some real success at the beginning, or else I will simply start not believing it at all.
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>>39038136
They ARE you. If anything, they have more right to call themselves you than you, your conscious self, does. You are Legion; you contain multitudes. No single part of you is you. You are the collection of selves you contain. Some of those selves are angry and hostile, some of those selves are self-destructive, and some of those selves hate you. It's simply their nature. The thing is, they're not alone. Whether they like it or not, they're part of a large committee, and decisions are made around a table of you. The angry, hateful parts of you get a voice -- as they should -- but if you're respectfully allowing all parts of yourself to contribute to decision-making, the more destructive elements should be out-voted in most decisions by the kinder and wiser parts of yourself.

>>39037369
Sorry I missed your post the first time around. That's actually a pretty interesting idea, one you could probably write a paper on if you were studying psychology. I'd be interested in seeing research on the subject.
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>>39038223
>they're part of a large committee, and decisions are made around a table of you.
So what causes depression in this context? Being dishonest to yourself?
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>>39038182
Mysticism isn't necessarily about the supernatural, it's about learning how to use the unconscious part of yourself to better understand yourself and the world.

But if you want something practical which can show you the benefits of mysticism, I can oblige you.

Get a straw from a straw broom and a flat tack. Take your shirt off and lie flat on your back on the ground. Stick the straw on the end of the tack such that it sticks up in the air, then balance the tack on your breastbone. Every time your heart beats, the end of the straw should quiver.

Now just lie there and watch the straw. That's it. That's all you have to do.

At the end of 30 minutes, you should now be able to consciously control your heartbeat. Tell your heart to speed up, and it will speed up. Tell your heart to slow down, and it will slow down. This occurs because of the phenomenon of biofeedback; connections in the brain work in both directions. By making yourself aware of which parts of your brain are activating when the autonomic nerve impulses which control your heart activate, you gain conscious control over what was previously completely unconscious.
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>>39038282
There are a lot of different theories about depression, but the one I prefer is the theory of depressive realism which holds that depression is actually the removal of a filter which makes the world seem irrationally pleasant to everyone else. The idea is that depression occurs when you feel trapped, and that its function is to give you the best and most accurate possible data in order to escape.

In the Freudian model, though, depression occurs when someone spends more and more mental effort trying to keep a thought or idea or memory suppressed below the level of conscious awareness. So it could be that one or more entities at that committee table are trying to protect you from something, and are fighting to keep certain thoughts away from your awareness, taking up more and more of your unconscious machinery to do so.
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>>39038370
>and are fighting to keep certain thoughts away from your awareness, taking up more and more of your unconscious machinery to do so.
Hmm, so holding that idea hidden from takes so much energy that you become out of juice in the real life? I guess the only way to find out is talk with the committee personally? And even then there wont be direct answer whats wrong with me.
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>>39038454
>even then there wont be direct answer
Who says? If you want a direct answer, you will get a direct answer. The fact that you're insisting you won't get a direct answer tells me you don't actually WANT a direct answer. That's the real question you should be pondering.

We don't do anything without reason. If you're spending time and energy hiding something from yourself, you should be asking why. The thing you're hiding may be less important than the reason you feel you need to hide it from yourself.
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>>39035368
I've done pic related by accident while studying Revelations.
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>>39038510
>The fact that you're insisting you won't get a direct answer tells me you don't actually WANT a direct answer
I never get direct answer from dreams, so i kinda expect not to get directness from subconsciousness too.
>The thing you're hiding may be less important than the reason you feel you need to hide it from yourself.
That's an interesting perspective. I can describe my situation as i'm seeking something but i dont know how it looks nor where it is but i'm certain that i'm seeking it and without it i feel like incomplete.
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>>39038538
Interesting. Looks like kabala.
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>>39035368
What are my biggest problems? Does anyone has a grudge on me, and if so, who? How can I fix my problems?
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>>39038590
I'm not psychic. But fortunately, mysticism can teach you how to answer these questions yourself. Or rather, it can teach you how to recognize the answers which you already know.
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>>39038606
How do I mysticism?
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Op I want to die but not today or ever it's strange I've always had this in my head
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whats your opinion on psychoactive substances (both legal and illegal) in combination with both philosophy and mysticism?
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>>39038587
only 1/4 kabbala... or just metatron
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>>39038665
Not OP but he somewhat answered it here >>39037646
>That's exactly what psychoactive drugs are: a shortcut. The reason psychoactive drugs are able to alter consciousness is that they mimic chemicals which are either already present in the brain or which the brain is capable of manufacturing. This means there is nothing a drug can do which you can't already do yourself through meditation and biofeedback.
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>>39038626
You can start here: >>39037824

>>39038630
Death and change are archetypally identical in the unconscious mind. It's why Death in tarot represents radical change, the ending of something old to make way for something new. It's why conservatives are so terrified of change; in the unconscious they recognize it as a form of death.

>>39038665
See >>39037646 for my thoughts on this.
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>>39038685
How should i meditate if i want to meet archetypical psyche figures? Is there a technique or i should just think about them?
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>>39038737
Lucid dreaming is what you want for encountering archetypal personality fragments. There are ways of inducing the part of the brain capable of manifesting dream characters to manifest these characters while you're awake, too, but it's a very advanced technique and it can be extremely dangerous. These entities are called "tulpas" and they can grow strong enough to actually supplant your own conscious identity. When this happens, we sometimes refer to it as "demonic possession."

It's probably best to stick to lucid dreaming until you're more adept.
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>>39038780
I dont like lucid dreaming as i cant get past sleep paralysis and it's a thing i'm very afraid of experiencing again (i had it a lot of times).
>Demonic possession
How can something replace you? Is it similar to just observing world through eyes while body does it own because it similar to the derealization i'm experiencing right now.
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>>39038780
From what I read in the thread, you seem like a pretty whacky guy. Do you have a tulpa yourself? Is it Christina Applegate?
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>>39037333
Where do I read books about this sort of thing
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>>39038895
The government would never allow such books to be published.
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>>39038837
What makes your conscious you you is your specific and particular combination of personality traits mixed together in certain ways, along with your collection of memories and the specific schema you have developed for interpreting sensory data.

When you create a tulpa, what you're doing is creating a dream character while awake. Just as in a dream, these dream characters seem pretty real on the surface, but underneath they're very simple and empty. But because you're not sleeping, the tulpa doesn't disappear when you wake up. The longer a tulpa exists, the more complex it becomes. It gathers its own memories and starts evolving its own set of personality traits. Over time it can become as complex as what you recognize as your own consciousness, at which time it may begin gobbling you up and replacing you.

Carl Jung believed that this is in fact what happened to Adolf Hitler. He manifested the Shadow so strongly that he convinced millions to follow him by speaking to them with the voice of their own Shadow, essentially becoming a demi-god. But the cost was madness as he was devoured from within by his own Shadow.
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>>39038933
>these dream characters seem pretty real on the surface, but underneath they're very simple and empty
Sounds like the vast majority of people in real life.
>The longer a tulpa exists, the more complex it becomes. It gathers its own memories and starts evolving its own set of personality traits. Over time it can become as complex as what you recognize as your own consciousness
So what makes it not a conscious entity in and of itself? What makes your consciousness so much more special than this?
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>>39038933
That sounds really scary stuff. I mean it's almost laughable how people advocate creating "tulpas" without thinking through the possible consequences. Is the Shadow essentially the same as projection defense mechanism? I remember that you have to integrate shadow and anima then make peace with Magician archetype that you're not omnipotent and then you're going to find Self?
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>>39038894
No, I don't have a tulpa. I sometimes create servitors for specific tasks, but I always make sure to thank them for their service and then uncreate them. (For example, servitors may be useful for waking you up at a specific time or reminding you to do something.) I nearly created a tulpa many years ago, but recognized my danger in time. I had begun role-playing a certain Trickster personality when I had to deal with bureaucrats and discovered that he was very good at figuring out what they wanted to hear and telling them in a convincing way. He was so useful, in fact, that I found myself drawing on him more and more often until he started escaping my control and manifesting himself without my conscious permission.

Fortunately I caught it in time and had the necessary discipline to wall him off until he lost his power and dwindled back into the unconscious.
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>>39038908
I mean Jung himself probably wrote something.

>>39038933
Basically I'm asking where can I learn more about mysticism. What's a good starting text?
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>>39039118
When I lay down to sleep I will often see 1 - 3 images flash across my imagination. This actually happens almost immediately after I get in bed, not even close to the beginning of the sleep process. They're always grotesque faces, human or animal, disfigured or decaying. What could this mean?

On an unrelated (?) note, one of my lifelong ambitions is to become extremely physically strong. I'll start with being strongest man in the state, then nation, then world. This will be verified in competition. What do you think could cause this drive?
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OP

I feel like I'm losing control and that I'm less real by the day. The world seems more insane with every passing day. I am highly introverted and intuitive, I attach meaning to everything and can't decide if I'm operating on a higher level or simply deluded and mentally ill. I can't express myself properly, its all just intuitive feelings, hence the rambling nature of this post

I have had a couple of brief periods this past 12 months where I have lucid dreams. I have not had one for some time but I learnt how to transition and experienced some very strange things. But the skeptical part of me refuses to believe they are archetypal. In one dream, I said I wanted to look for answers and found an old Red Book (yes) with indecipherable gold embossed symbols on the cover. Around the same time I had various strange dreams. Some months later, I discovered Jungs Red Book and the significance astounded me. I looked through the Red Book and saw some symbols which were very similar to things I saw in dreams. Yet I just attribute this to Confirmation Bias.

I can't express myself at the best of times let alone in a rambling 4chan post on a day when my brain is not running at full capability.

My life is a mess and I seek ultimate meaning but also, worldly success. I have neither. I think I play psychological games with myself due to a disturbed ego. I am waiting for the intervention of a God who doesn't seem to want to know me.

I am desperate and possibly mentally ill. Help me
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>>39039252
>What do you think could cause this drive?
Not OP but that's called compensation. Just like small dudes buy biggest cars. I guess you're going to compensate mental inferiority by becoming physically strong.
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>>39038895
>>39039138
There are many, many models you can use, many different paradigms which will bring you to the same places. What works for me may not work for you. But since you asked, here's a small list of books which I found especially insightful:

Man and his Symbols, by Carl Jung
Interpretation of Dreams, by Sigmund Freud
Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Julian Jaynes
The Emperor's New Mind, by Sir Roger Penrose
Illusions, by Richard Bach
The Fourth Way, by Pyotr Ouspensky
Character Analysis, by Wilhelm Reich
Walden, by Henry David Thoreau
Hero with a Thousand Faces, by Joseph Campbell
Godel, Escher, Bach, by David Hofstadter
The Teachings of Don Juan, by Carlos Castenada
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>>39039273
I am pretty insecure. I guess I'm trying to find out why I'm so insecure. Not sure how to go about that.

>>39039284
Really appreciate it. Do you know anything about Christian mysticism? I'm beginning my path to become an ordained minister and I'm seeking a deeper connection with both God and myself.
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>>39039091
The Shadow has a special place in Jungian psychology, since it is the negative image cast by the conscious identity. The things we consciously believe about ourselves tend to be denial structures for the purpose of suppressing essential truths. For example, people who are generally dishonest tend to think of themselves as being exceptionally honest people. People who are genuinely honest don't need to think of themselves as being such. This means that the Shadow is actually a much truer expression of our selves than the mask which is our conscious identity.

I used to get annoyed at the way people tried to assist others in creating a tulpa -- as a sort of sex toy no less! -- but over time I saw that most of those people simply didn't have the skill to create a tulpa, much less teach someone else to make one. The thing of it is, generally just wanting a tulpa badly enough is often sufficient to create one, and in the case of some of the genuinely broken and disturbed people making them, it may actually be beneficial to have them supplanted by their tulpa.

>>39039081
Well, that's the tulpas view, isn't it? Why doesn't it have at least as much right to be you as you do? If you can't answer that, maybe it actually does.
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>>39039384
So Shadow is more about suppressed unconscious qualities than being opposite of your character? Are you familiar with Jung cognitive functions? Would it be accurate to say if your leading function is Ti then your unconscious would be Fe?
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>>39039252
These "flashes" are part of what Jung referred to as active imagination. It means you'd probably be diagnosed as schizotypal (and in fact Jung himself is generally considered today to have been a self-treating schizophrenic). I wouldn't worry; it means you are much better at manifesting the unconscious than the general population, and might at one time have had the chops to become a shaman.

As for becoming physically strong, I think you might find it interesting to do some reading on Wilhelm Reich and his theories on muscle armouring as a way of protecting a damaged or sensitive inner emotional core.
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>>39039451
What qualifies a person as a schizotypal one according to you?
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>>39039384
>Why doesn't it have at least as much right to be you as you do? If you can't answer that, maybe it actually does
Then what's your answer to not letting the trickster tulpa you made take over?
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>>39039253
Whenever synchronicity occurs, it's very important to pay attention. It's how your unconscious mind is alerting you to something critically important. If you flip a coin 100 times and it comes up heads 100 times, this is no more significant to the Universe than if it had come up 50 heads and 50 tails. Yet this would be extraordinarily significant to you -- and rightly so. What this shows is that our inner worlds are more important to our reality than the external world of things.

I think some of your problem is attempting to reconcile your intuitive understanding of the nature of reality with the hyper-materialist doctrine you're being fed on a daily basis by everyone and everything around you. It's important to remember two things always:

First, that the sleepers hate and fear those who are awake, and always have. History is littered with those who saw the archetypal world and who were tortured and murdered for it. These understandings you have can be shared, but not with everyone, and not openly. Those who seek will find you, just as you've found others yourself in the past. Learn to hide among the sleepers unless you have a burning desire to get nailed to a cross -- or shot full of Haloperidol and "treated" until they break your mind.

Second, it's important to remember not to fall into your own navel. You're a spiritual entity, but you are also a physical one. There's a reason we manifest an external world: it keeps us from having to carry it all inside us all the time. There's a Buddhist parable I think you'll find instructive:

The Master points at a rock and asks the student, "What's that?"

The student replies, "It's the image of a rock I create in my head, Master."

The Master picks up the rock and hits the student in the head with it. "Poor fool," says the Master, shaking his head sadly, "what a heavy head you must have."
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>>39039321
Have you read any Meister Eckhart? I find his work highly instructive. His writing about the Godhead is in keeping with the views of the Desert Fathers, whose views on the Christ were more in keeping with Jewish mystic traditions. For instance, they believed that when Yeshua said he was the way, the truth, and the light, and that none would come to the father except through him, that he was telling people to do as he had done and manifest the Christ in themselves instead of waiting for Emmanuelle to arrive. Interestingly, while Eckhart was (like the Desert Fathers) declared heretical, he was actually cleared of heresy after he'd had the opportunity to speak to the Pope -- not something which happened very often.
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>>39039432
Yes and no. Like I said, the Shadow is special in Jungian psychology. While part of its function is to act as the negative image of the conscious mind, it also seems to function as the Thanotic counterbalance to creative Erotic urges -- to mix a little Freud into the Jungian psychology. Part of the confusion comes from the use of "archetype" to refer to two very different things. An archetype can be the genral, universal symbol, but archetype can also refer to the *manifestation* of that symbol. So the Shadow is both an archetype and the manifestation of that archetype, which can take a different and even opposite role within your own personal committee of self.
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>>39039451
>>39039634
Thanks for the responses. I'll have to do some research on active imagination, although I assume it's covered in those books you mentioned. I've heard Eckhart's name, but never read him. Sounds right up my alley.

Thanks for doing this thread. I feel like I'm going to learn a lot in the coming weeks.
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>>39039508
It's not me who makes up the definitions. I don't believe that mental illness exists, at least not in the way our culture does. Minds don't malfunction, they function differently for certain functions. Those functions may no longer exist, or they may benefit the individual at the expense of the community (or the community at the expense of the individual) but it's not like a faulty machine. These machines are working perfectly -- it's the *function* of the machines which may be obsolete or counter-productive.

For the record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder
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>>39039554

Thank You

The problem I have with synchronicity is that I seem to find it everywhere, in even the most mundane circumstances. Its as if I am looking for significance too much, hence my wariness of Confirmation Bias. So the skeptical side of me discards these events and I even get angry with myself for being so "deluded" etc. Even this thread I could see as a synchronicity as I desperately need help and guidance in my life and just recently, things are getting worse.

I think I am like a spoilt child that can't get his own way. I want everything I desire but I am too fearful and self-loathing to go out and make it happen so instead I throw a tantrum and wallow in self-pity when God or the Universe will not respond. I turn to God and beg for help and guidance. Then I turn away and rebuke him and think its all nonsense when I see the untold suffering in the world. I want my prayers answered but have no faith. Its absurd. I am not Christian by the way, I consider myself an Agnostic who sees truth in all religious teachings.

My biggest problem has always been psychological. I simply do not like myself and I am full blown Neurotic. Part of me wants to become a Buddhist monk and leave this degenerate society behind. An equal part of me wants to be a millionaire fuck monster who shits on the world. That is a result of insecurity and frustration I think. My shadow gets darker by the day
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>>39039688
How does one integrates shadow? Just be acknowledging you repressed character qualities?
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>>39039724
So for example schizophrenia used to be beneficial for our ancestors?
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>>39039533
Why do anything? My Will. I don't have to be the person I am. I could be someone else if I so choose. But the important word here is: choose. It's my *choice*. True existential choice is always painful. It's about recognizing that wisdom always comes with a price, and that for every door which opens, two more close somewhere else. We live in a dying Universe, and are born astride a grave. The nihilist looks at this lack of meaning and purpose and says, "Why do anything?" The existentialist looks into the same Void and says, "Why not?"

I am because I choose to be, nothing more. And when I stop choosing to be, I will be not.
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>>39039814
How can you have a choice if it's just your subconscious telling you what to do?
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>>39035368
Have you accepted salvation from eternal damnation, my Dalmatian?
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>>39039689
My pleasure. I like to create these threads every few months here. I feel like a lot of the robots in r9k aren't so much broken as dismayed by the banality of the material world they've been told all their lives is the sum total of existence. I like to think I might be able to remind some of them that the world of the sleepers is as false as it is carnivorous, and that as cold and mean as the external world seems, there are vast, warm, infinitely deep and amazing oceans inside us, untouched by the Powers and Principalities who rule the material world.
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OP did you ever read any Fernando Pessoa? I heard he was a mystic too.
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how to i stop feeling like i am being led on and used every time im shown affection?
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>>39039738
From the sound of it, you have the floodgates of perception wide open with no way to switch it off. I think you could really benefit from studying some form of shamanic or magickal tradition. They all have ways of controlling, filtering, or shutting the third eye when you need synchronicity to stop distracting you like a flock of bats.

Whether you choose to do the Pillars or the Seal of Solomon or put on the Armour of Faith or smudge with sage or bargain with the Goetia or even just adopt simple hedge magicks like iron nails over doorways and windows, it all serves the same function of creating auto-suggestion which allows you to leverage your Will to open and close yourself to the symbolic world of archetype.
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>>39039940
Become someone worth giving affection to without ulterior motives.
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>>39039750
I'm not a Buddha or a Christ or any kind of enlightened master. I'm a seeker, just like you, and I don't have all the answers. If I knew how to integrate all my selves into something more cohesive, I'd be hanging out under a bodhi tree with my palms touching the earth, not posting to a Himalayan llama-swapping forum.
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OH BIG TRIANGLE
move to
> small town in a nice shared room apartment where a 2x 4 girl community and i will live with 3 other boys in the same house community ?

or
> own apartment in a big city ?
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>>39039982
It was more about whenever dragging unconscious into conscious relieves the stress. You seem to be much more into those things so i'm seek your advice.
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>>39039451
What does it mean to manifest the unconscious?
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>>39039781
Yes, very much so. For instance, every saint, oracle, visionary, seer, and half the artists and musicians throughout history were what we would now call "schizophrenic." In fact, the sociologist Julian Jaynes believed that everyone used to hear voices and interact with the gods constantly, prior to the rise of the modern concept of consciousness. (If you've watched the Westworld series, it's actually based on Jaynes' bicameral mind theory.)

Carl Jung himself used to take long walks in the woods with a demon, with whom he discussed a lot of his psychological models. His wife tells a story about how Jung began getting more and more paranoid, eventually sleeping with a gun under his pillow, until one day she woke up during the night and he was missing. Fearing the worst, she found him outside half-naked, playing in the mud with stones and bits of wood. She thought he had lost his mind and suffered some kind of breakdown, but he had in fact just invented art therapy.
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>>39040060
Damn, that means if i dont have schizophrenic traits then i'm not going to have alternative/different view as my brain wiring would be the same as majority of people.
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I triggered my kundalini and it fucked with my psyche. How do I take the blue pill again?
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>>39039861
"Just" my subconscious. I *am* my subconscious. You still seem to have this idea that you are your conscious identity. Your conscious identity is a mask, and is one of the less important parts of you. This is why it's so important to do spiritual work and try to integrate your selves. The Will is not manifested through the conscious mind. The decisions you're making around the boardroom table of the unconscious are the result of the interplay of your many selves. If you're treating your unconscious mind like a garbage dump where you shove everything you don't want to think about consciously, then you're expecting your committee of selves to work out complex problems while a shower of old banana peels and dead batteries rains down on them from above.
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How do I make dmt?
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>>39040132
Then what's wrong with letting another part of your subconscious, i.e. a tulpa, take control of your conscious actions? You'll still be the same subconsciously, just with a different driver.
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>>39039935
My entry to mysticism was from a different direction, from Kant through to the German existentialists, then to the alienists, and from the alienists to Jung and Reich.

>>39039940
Spend some time exploring yourself and learning to like your own company. When you stop having artificially degraded self-images of yourself, you'll be less suspicious when people find things they like about you.

>>39039988
I can't answer that, but *you* can. I will teach you a technique for consulting your own unconscious machinery. This method is called bibliomancy.

Get a big, heavy, hardbound book and stand it up on its spine. Ask the question you just asked me out loud, then allow the book to fall open to a random page and point to a random paragraph. It will answer your question directly and succinctly.

(This functions because of apophenia. The paragraph is question has no context and thus no meaning, so your brain will attempt to find a pattern by drawing from your own unconscious thoughts. By priming yourself by asking the question out loud, you ensure that the material from which you're drawing is related to the question you're pondering.)
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>>39035368
This is a good thread.
It is nice to see something different on this board.
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>>39040223
>then allow the book to fall open to a random page and point to a random paragraph.
what if it lands on a blank page :^)
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>>39040223

Did you ever read any of his stuff though? Idk if he's any good but he seems interesting
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>>39040246
Dare you to draw on it
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>>39040018
In psychoanalytic theory, what you're referring to is catharsis. Keeping strong emotional material suppressed requires a lot of attention from the unconscious machinery, and if you can keep forcing yourself to engage with the emotional energy it releases, it should discharge itself eventually. It can be sudden, but more often than not it's more the result of constant, slow, patient insight and the willingness to endure multiple onslaughts of the built-up emotional trauma associated with whatever it is which has been kept suppressed.
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>>39040271
Is there a way to atleast have an idea what material is being suppressed? I think that i might be blocking something big but it's like trying to hold slippery stone - keeps slipping away from consciousness.
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>>39040296
Ask your mom or older siblings if anything really bad ever happened to you when you were a little kid.
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>>39040042
Most people live in what Kant referred to as the world of representation. That is, they live inside the symbolic images constructed by the mind to represent what the senses have told us, filtered through the schema of our perception and our expectations on the basis of memory of previous events. A small percentage of people either have or develop the power to perceive a deeper level of existence, the level of archetype, of universal symbols. To manifest the unconscious is to access that deeper level of being, the place where art and imagination and madness lie.
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>>39040321
>Ask your mom or older siblings if anything really bad ever happened to you when you were a little kid.
There's nothing. I tried to dig in my past but there was nothing worth mentioning or something big.
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wussup OP, I want to believe.

so, without too much detail: i feel like i'm searching for something. some kind of answer. i feel like if if i could just figure out this one thing everything would start to kinda fall into place for me, or at least id know how to make things start falling into place. but it's like i don't even know the question i'm trying to find the answer to. like trying to solve a math problem without all the needed variable. what do.

think i might try your bibliomancy thing. any book? does it have to be hard bound? what does heavier cardboard do to alter the mystical(?) properties of the book?
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>>39040088
No, you can get there, but it will require a lot more work. On the other hand, it means you'll have a much better chance of passing through the sleepers unseen and being able to navigate through the Powers and Principalities of the material world without getting stepped on.
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>>39040354
Maybe you should do a past life regression. I tried one once, and I had a vision of a Confederate flag. very weird!
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What do you think of the ancient astronauts theory? Why did ancient sumerians make glyphs of humanoid creatures descending from the heavens in strange circular vehicles
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>>39040370
>past life regression
What's that? Some form of meditation?
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>>39039738
I'd also recommend the lectures of Jordan B Peterson; man needs a coherent philosophy of good and evil, and his interpretations are fantastic.
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>>39040145
Your brain can make DMT. Seriously. The reason DMT works is it's mimicking chemicals already in the brain. Meditation and biofeedback can be used to make as much DMT as you want -- all free, legal, and without side effects. And you can turn it off and on at will. All those serene monks you see sitting lotus for hours and hours? They're all stoned out of their gourds on their own brain chemistry.
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>>39040155
Well, there's nothing inherently wrong with it, in a moral sense, but I don't see much point in deliberately making an abrupt change in my identity. After all, your identity does change over time, and you evolve into a different person as different elements of your selves float to the surface and other elements sink lower, down to the bottom. Since that's happening anyway as a natural organic process of simply being alive, I don't see much point in making slap-dash changes simply for the sake of changes.
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>>39040386
It's hypnosis/guided meditation, I think. The guide/hypnotist will help you out in actively exploring your mind. I remember a hallway of doors, and the one that I picked had a giant nose on it.
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>>39040477
Ohh, that i guess it's not for everyone to get (location and money wise).
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>>39040236
Thank you.

>>39040246
>>39040356
The only reason you use a hard-bound book is it makes it easier to let it flop open and stay open to a random page. There's nothing supernatural going on here, you're just using apophenia to allow your subconscious to project itself onto the words. By choosing the paragraph at random, you can be sure that there is no pattern inherent in it, so any meaning you derive from it originates with your unconscious mind.
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>>39035916
>Astral projection does exist, is very easy to do, but isn't what you think it is. Scientists are now able to consistently induce astral projection in the lab, and it turns out all you need to do is put VR goggles on someone, then send them a feed from a camera located above and behind one of their shoulders. Poof, instant out-of-body experience.
Welp. We've got real deal here, folks.
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What's your favorite horror movie?
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>>39040121
I actually met a yoga instructor who complained to me about feeling constantly exhausted. I explained to her that while Hindu and Buddhist meditation look similar, they're actually entirely opposite in intent and effect. Hindu meditation is about transcending the flesh, disconnecting the mind from the illusion of Maya and raising Kundalini to the Crown chakra to manifest the Ataman -- the Godmind. Buddhist meditation is about centring yourself within your flesh, becoming hyper-aware of your body and all its functions and achieving satori through ego-death. She was exhausted because as a yoga instructor she was constantly channelling all of her yogic energy into the Crown. By occasionally shifting to a more Buddhist approach, she would be able to retain more of her physicality.

Don't think of recognizing the material body as "taking the blue pill." It's an element of your reality just as your mind is. A holistic approach to understanding means acknowledging the phenomenological basis of reality.
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>>39040485
Past life regression may not be for you, but I believe that God will heal you in the right way. I think it makes sense that a soul leaving the American Civil War should learn to love being a Yankee, but it also tells me why I feel like things aren't right. When I was a little kid, my grandpa told me that the South is still fighting the Civil War. I truly believe that the American Constitution is a viral document, and that the CSA's existence would have been the first cell division of a world eventually completely run under the protection of the Constitution.
Life is so strange.
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>>39040251
No, I haven't. There are a lot of mystics, and not all of them are going to appeal to everyone. The thing about mysticism is that by definition it can't be explained. It can't be understood. It can't be described. The way the Tao Te Ching puts it is, "How do I know this is true? I look inside myself and see." Mysticism is about the immediate, visceral, and direct experience which occurs *inside* ourselves. So mystics can't teach you anything but how to look for yourself -- and there are many, many ways of doing that.
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>>39040296
Are you sure you're ready to unlock it? There may be a reason you're keeping it suppressed. My personal preference would be for lucid dreaming, if only because so much of it is under your control, and you retain the option of re-burying it by choosing not to remember it into the waking world

.>>39040385
Jung actually wrote a book about UFOs. He points out that from Ezekial to the modern era, UFOs are almost invariably described in the form of great, glowing mandalas in the sky. He also points out that they began appearing in great numbers after the end of the Second World War and the explosion of the atom bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Jung believed that UFOs are archetypal manifestations of the collective terror of the extermination of the human species by war. The mandala is a very powerful and primal symbol of unity, and Jung believed that we were manifesting them collectively.
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>>39040477
>the one that I picked had a giant nose on it
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>>39039958

>>39039738 here

Thanks for your continued input. This must be the most interesting thread on /r9k/ I've seen in years and the only reason I'm posting here today

Forgive me but I don't understand the first part of your response in terms of the rituals you suggest. I'll google them. The most occult thing I've done is create a couple of sigils earlier this year after talking to an Anon about Chaos Magick. That is a subject I am interested in, although I don't really understand it. I did read some Wilson and got into the KLF and some of their antics. Ultimately, it left me both fascinated and confused in equal measure. Maybe thats the point.

In spite of my spiritual yearnings, it all boils down to the fact I hate being a loser in a world where you have to be a winner. I am materialistic and self-centred as fuck, I just want money and to get laid and avoid the rat race. I despise the degeneracy of society but its in part only because I'm unable to play the game. As you said earlier, I'm stuck in a world I don't understand yet still want to be a part of. I need to get back into meditation. I did a couple of retreats but haven't been able to make it a consistent habit.

Interestingly, in response to your 2nd reply, I have been following Peterson diligently for about 6 months now (another "synchronicity" lol) He really is quite the man. I don't have the conscientiousness to fully engage with all his ideas and lectures but I love his practical approach to spiritual ideals and he's a good influence. However, I am still, as of yet, completely unsorted.
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>>39040527
Kubrick's The Shining.
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>>39040496
nice explanation man, thanks, i hoped this'd at least be a step above /x/ shit.

anything else you'd recommend trying?
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>>39040693
Yeah, it was a giant, realistic nose.
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>>39040708
>I am still, as of yet, completely unsorted
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>>39040708
What I'm trying to explain is that nothing works and everything works. That is, there's nothing supernatural about any of it. The purpose of all the showmanship is to help create suggestibility in the unconscious mind. No matter how logical we are consciously, the unconscious is extremely superstitious. In order to close the windows of perception which, in your case, are stuck wide open, you need to be able to convince yourself to *not* see. So what you're searching for is a convincing set of rituals which can increase your suggestibility. If you were into demonolatry, for example, you could sacrifice some of your blood and ask one of the Goetic demons to protect you. If you were into Catholicism you could do your rosary and ask Mary to protect you. If you were a Wiccan you could draw down the Moon and make a circle of protection. Using faerie lore, you could use elf knots and iron nails to shield your home from malign influence. And so on and so forth. Which rituals you decide to use are unimportant as long as you can buy into them. You're using them to leverage your own Will by convincing your superstitious unconscious mind to believe in magic.
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>>39040710
favorite period film?
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>>39040477
I just wanted to note the silly and child-like sense of humour the unconscious mind has. You literally "picked your nose." I had a dream recently where I walked down into a subway and found instead of tracks it had water, and there was a submarine floating there. A SUB-way. That's pretty typical for the kind of humour the unconscious mind likes. It just adores puns.
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>>39040714
Lots of things. Coin tossing. Spirit bottle. I Ching. Runes. Left-handed writing. Tea leaves. Ouija. The actual method doesn't matter. All you're trying to do is create a pseudo-random medium against which you can project your own unconscious, and for that you use whatever feels most comfortable for you, and whatever method induces the most suggestibility in you. A lot of comes down to whatever superstitions we were raised with, as these persist for our entire lives.
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>>39040817

I understand my friend. I am beginning to see more clearly what Wilson was on about.

But when you say there is nothing supernatural, does that mean we cannot bend reality to our will? For instance, casting Sigils for love and money etc? If anything happens, its as a result of us subconsciously striving for those things having partaken in a convincing ritual and not to do with any "law of attraction" type stuff?

So there is no God, there is no meaning. We just have to convince ourselves to believe in something in order to function in accordance with our own particular natures? That would explain why most well adjusted folk are traditional Christians etc and the more out there types believe in all kinds of occultism and new age theories?
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Very interesting thread op. appreciate your work.

my interests hit hard and leave fast. i am a 'leaves projects unfinished' type. whenever asked about my interests/hobbies, i genuinely cannot think of any legitimate ones, beside refreshing 4chan. listening to music, obviously, but i rarely venture from what i know and like-i just don't have the patience/capacity to listen to an album many times to 'get' it.
what you said earlier: maybe i don't do things because i don't actually want to do them? i used to be a voracious reader. now i have a book of chekhov's plays i'd love to get through. but i simply cannot sit still and retain the information into my brain. i'd love to listen to /mu/core and expand my tastes and become well-rounded. i just simply...cannot be bothered to.
if this sounds like ADD i don't doubt it's unrelated at all. but there has to be some other reason/driving force?

seguing into: Whenever someone shows interest in me i tend to view them with dislike, at times even disgust. i think i managed to identify it as: show interest in someone, chase them, get them, lose interest because (above), but they don't, and then i start to view them as 'gross' (lack of better term). this is unfair to those people. what can i do?


unrelated, don't have to address: first and only time DMT, 50 mg. stared at the wall and blasted the fuck off. scared the shit out of me. i was shouting 'help', 'no', etc. didn't really see anything, just level 7 visuals/geometry. because i was so scared i pulled myself out of the realm and spent the rest of the trip trying to stay grounded. what gives?

thank you.
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>>39040685
I actually dont know, majority of my dreams are very simplistic. I mean there is not fantasy stuff just different landscapes (usually city, sometimes nature) which could be in reality. And dreams revolves around searching something. One of my recent dreams was about me being in some sort of church looking building with tons of other unknown people. There i had to drink some sort of drink from cup (which was given by some sort of oracle or priestess, she looked like Bayonetta) to know my magic "level". Another thing is that i'm more of a see problem-find a solution type of person, so maybe i want to resolve this archetype problem with too much directness.
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>>39040836
Raiders of the Lost Ark. I have a weakness for pulp, and Raiders scratched that itch. The sequels don't do anything for me because they aren't self-aware; they were made for an audience which didn't recognize all the pulp tropes in the original. But Raiders was a love-letter to the age of pulp.

>>39040896
Do you remember at the end of the last Harry Potter movie, when Harry asks Dumbledore whether all of what he was experiencing was real or if it was just in his head, and Dumbledore's answer was, "Of course it's in your head, Harry. And it's real."

You seem to have this idea that because something functions on an unconscious level, that it somehow isn't real. I think it makes it MORE real. I've met and talked to gods. I've fought demons. I share a bucket of popcorn regularly with Christina Applegate. All these things occur in my unconscious -- and all of these things are real. Phenomenologically, "reality" refers to what we experience in a linear narrative fashion, or else what else could it possibly be referring to? I think if you stop trying to apply unnecessary hierarchies to what's "real" you'll feel much less angsty.
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>>39040838
A week or so after my grandpa died, he started visiting me in dreams. In the first dream, he looked much younger, but he still had his limp from WWII. We were standing outside the house, and his wife and baby were there, who had both died as well (my grandmother and aunt). Grandpa and I got into a car parked in the driveway, and started driving north. Neither of us were driving. He was in the front passenger seat, and I was behind the driver.
I told him that I missed him. He told me, "That's such a screwball idea, you could hang it off of a Christmas tree."
In another dream, I was sorting mail. Grandpa was sitting there, and even though he died, he still had things addressed to him. I gave him his mail, he read it, and said, "This is for your mother."
Finally, I had a dream where I was in a very large house. I climbed the staircase to the attic, which had been converted to a bedroom where my grandpa was resting in bed. He looked more like he did at the end of his life. He told me, "I'm going home now. Close the door and don't come back in."
I didn't have any more dreams about him.
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>>39040412
Jordan B Peterson is a meme. His philosophy of good and evil is built on sand, the assumption that we can all innately identify as wrong e.g. the actions of the Nazis or Soviets. Take away that basic premise and his arguments about good and evil collapse.
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>>39040903
To be honest, this sounds like self-sabotage to me. You know, I wasn't always a mystic. There was a time I was a hard-core atheist, an outspoken proponent of science, and I regarded the subconscious as a garbage pit where you shoved all of the emotional baggage you didn't want to deal with.

As time went by, I became increasingly alienated from my own emotional and spiritual self, and my unconscious turned into a toxic and hostile place. I began engaging in patterns of self-destructive behaviour, driven by self-loathing which I could only perceive as attacks by some kind of monster living down inside me. When I started falling down stairs and cutting myself while chopping food and so forth, it reached a point where I either had to deal with the unconscious or die of some kind of "accident."

It took years, but once the Will was present to negotiate a truce with myself, it all just started happening. It was hard work and I am justifiably proud of the spiritual work I did. A lot of what I thought of as "me" had to be cut away and jettisoned, but I was interested to see that a lot more of my conscious identity could be saved than I had originally thought.

My work isn't finished. I still engage in self-destructive behaviour. I suspect there's serious damage I did to my psychic landscape which may never be fully healed. But now I have the tools and the Will to head into my dreams and confront the hostile parts of myself, negotiate settlements, and see whether it's possible to come to a compromise with myself which allows me to still continue being me while giving those angry parts of myself enough to keep them from smothering me in my sleep or pushing me under a bus.
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>>39041018

Never watched Harry Potter lol but I get the point

I can relate to what you are saying. I have had lucid dreams that felt as vivid as waking life, albeit in a surreal, dreamlike world.

I have a somewhat related question. People that are incredibly successful; celebrities, Zuckerberg, Musk etc. Do you think these people have an innate unconscious ability to bend reality to their will? How does a human being become so fucking successful, it has always fascinated me. The same with dictators like Hitler, Stalin etc. How can a single person rise to such power with the same brain and physical body as the rest of us?
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>>39041160
thanks for your reply. however, i'm having trouble understanding what you're trying to say. please elaborate? specifically, i'd like to know what steps i can take to understand why i am like this and how i can fix myself.

also, thinking about it, i'd really like to know what my deal was with DMT, thank you haha.
>>
For as long as i remember, everythong i try and do has failed miserably. I am sure there used to be a time in my life where this wasnt the case. But i just can't get out of this neverending cycle of failure. Pls give me at least a hint to get out of this hell.
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>>39036465
Jys nie nou op Potch nie pel
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>>39040980
>see problem-find a solution type of person
Aha. We've found the problem.

Everyone and everything contains a male and female nature. They're not actually two different things; they're dual ends of the same spectrum, but it helps to think of them as opposites, just as we think of hot and cold as being opposites, even though there's just temperature. Anyway, the male nature is all about logic and directed action. It's about problem-solving and overcoming obstacles. It's very useful when you need something done, but it's single-minded and lacks any kind of perspective. Furthermore, its strength -- that it gets whatever it's aimed at -- is also its weakness, since what you want is not necessarily what you need.

The female nature is the opposite of the male. Where the male is deep and pursues a single-minded goal, the female is shallow but very broad. It makes intuitive connections, a web of interconnected thoughts and concepts which helps to understand the shape and structure of things. Ideally we use both. We use the female in order to understand and provide context, and we use the male in order to achieve and obtain things.

From the sound of it, you are locked into using just the male side of your nature, and this is a serious problem. The way the Tao Te Ching puts it is: "Know the male, yet keep to the female." It's important to know how to get things done, but our own inner natures should remain always and consistently female: spiritual and emotional.

The power of the female is in its flexibility. The Tao Te Ching characterizes the female as water for its ability to flow around obstructions and to slowly, patiently wear away what cannot be avoided. Much of the problems you're experiencing are the result of trying to use just the male. It's like trying to hammer in a screw.
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>>39041258
You understood exactly what I said. Or part of you does. I was pretty clear in what I was saying, but I suspect you're trying to avoid understanding it on a conscious level. If you are to have any hope of smashing through your evasion structures, you're going to have to develop a kind of double-think where think about things by not thinking about it. Sort of... thinking around them. It's hard to describe. There are certain areas which are off-limits to you, so to talk about them you're going to have to construct elaborate metaphorical structures, what Freud referred to as sublimation.
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Can I get my ex back via Occult practices?
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>>39041349
>you are locked into using just the male side of your nature, and this is a serious problem
In what way it's serious. I think i might be dealing with extreme polarization of femininity and masculinity because sometimes i indulge in crossdressing with a subconscious idea that i should express my femininity "becoming" female even for a short time.
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>>39041061
Did you know that in Latin America, it's considered a normal part of the grieving process for people to have a final encounter with someone who has died in order to say good-bye to them? It's actually something they discuss at length in the DSM-4 case book, where they use it as an example of how mental health is based on cultural norms, and that what's considered unhealthy in one culture is actually considered completely ordinary in another.
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>>39041170
Simple. These people are gods. They have sacrificed their humanity in exchange for power over the physical. They're what the Bible refers to as Powers and Principalities. They are very pure manifestations of primal archetypes. Their control over the physical world is close to absolute except where they clash with other gods.

But they pay a terrible price for their power: their souls. They give up all the things which make them human. They develop a curious kind of spiritual blindness which makes them super-aware of their place in the hierarchy of powers, but completely unable to see people who operate on a deeper, spiritual level. To be honest, I pity them. They're monsters and will never be anything but monsters. The Buddhists refer to them as "hungry ghosts," creatures of perpetual appetite, blind to everything but their never-ending, gnawing hunger which can never be satiated.
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>>39041476
Hadn't heard of that. I had a similar experience with a buddy that died earlier this year.
I dreamed that I went to his house, where he was playing video games on his couch. I told him, "You died! Don't ever do that again!"
>DSM-4
Are dreams like these considered a mental disorder by some?
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>>39041266
We generally get what we aim at. If you're getting non-stop failure, then you need to start asking yourself *why* you want failure. Note that I'm not telling you that you need to stop failing, or that there's something wrong with you for wanting failure. Perhaps you enjoy the drama of it. Perhaps you are so spiritually powerful and uplifted that you require constant failure in order to obtain any kind of challenge in your life to expand your potential. Regardless, it could probably help to spend some time trying to determine what it is you actually want, because it's this dichotomy between what you think you want and what you actually want which is creating all your emotional turmoil.
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I'm into Carl young too. Do you want to start a comfy cult? I have red most of his works and they have changed my life.
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Ive got a question Ooop. Some nights when I "sleep" I am suspended in an almost trance lime state. I can literally "feel" my subconscious putting together the answer to a question. Everytime I wake up after one of these nights it feels like I have gained a great insight. But to what I do not know.
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>>39041543

So did they consciously sell their souls then? Or were they born that way as some kind of Karma?
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>>39041439
Sure. I could tell you all kinds of techniques you could use to convince her, all based on various kinds of suggestion of psychological manipulation, from leading to the Honest Abe. But would it really help you? My advice is to spend some time working on the real problem, which is wanting something for which you're not prepared to pay the price. I promise you that the payoff for conquering yourself is far, far greater than it is for conquering her.
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>>39041442
That's interesting. It means on some level you're aware that you are suppressing your Anima and are attempting to address the issue. This really is the heart of your problem, then. You're living entirely in the male, while your Anima struggling desperately to get out from under your thumb. Why are you hurting her? Why are you punishing her? She's *you*, anon. She doesn't want to hurt you. If you let her out, she can make life wonderful for you.
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>>39041543
What, they're just regular people with a lot of money. They were at the right place at the right time and hit the jackpot with inventions that revolutionized society.

>They're monsters and will never be anything but monsters.
I think is a bit harsh and narrow-minded.
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>>39041606
Almost anything is considered a mental disorder by some. "Mental illness" is the "imbalance of humours" of our time. Anything which can't be explained by naive materialism is a "mental illness."

I recall reading in a psych text about police in New York finding a man dressed in white robes talking to a tree. When they asked him what he was doing, he explained that he and the tree were having a discussion. They arrested him on the spot and held him for a psych eval... until twenty more people in white robes showed up at the police station asking for him, all of whom held long discussions with trees. The police had to let him go, because if one person does it he's crazy, but if a whole bunch of people are doing it, it's a religion.
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>>39041798
Oh for fuck's sake.
To live back on the farm again.
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>>39041689
You may not be consciously aware of it, but you know. You're more -- a lot more -- than just your conscious identity. Consider it a gift that your unconscious mind does you the kindness of letting you know when you've gained a level in wisdom.
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>>39041749
>You're living entirely in the male, while your Anima struggling desperately to get out from under your thumb
Yeah, she "gets out" through me physically, buying stuff i dont need or partaking in such activities.
>Why are you hurting her? Why are you punishing her?
The first thought is that she never shows herself or offers any help. I feel like i'm dealing with a child who's only capable of throwing tantrums.
>If you let her out
Just by wishing to meet her? Could she be the key why i'm so passionless and depressed?
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I am 26, I never had friends despite trying to be friendly to people or a gf and I am afraid that once I finish college I won't be able to find a job despite a stem degree.
What mystical thing can I do to fix it?
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>>39041833
To be honest I fear my unconscious. My Identity has been broken so many times I have learn not to get to attached to it. I am not the same person for very long. I do not know who I am. Because I have learnt to look at the behaviour. And it defies any concept I have of myself.
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>>39035368
Thanks for making these threads and helping spread some ideas
>>39035601
> the function of the depression is to give you the means to escape that trap
Your view on the universe presenting problems to you in order to gain knowledge is one that I tend to agree on. Also with how it's important to be in the right state of mind to be open to suggestions presented to you.
It's great to have these sorts of discussions rather than
>so lonely
>so many problems
>i hate stuff
>>39037333 (fuggin checked)
You have an excellent way of explaining things like this. Do you have any recommendations on entry level Jung books? I've already studied quite a lot of daoism.
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>>39041692
Yes, I believe it takes a serious and existential act of Will to burn away your identity and embody a god. They've traded any kind of potential for spiritual growth for mastery over the material. Do you think it's a coincidence that the billionaires and presidents and potentates of the world all belong to esoteric societies which teach the EXACT SAME THINGS I've been explaining to people tonight? Rather than seek deeper wisdom in the internal sea, these people have deliberately blinded their third eye in exchange for mastery over the world.
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>>39037333

Would this explain why someone who has spent many years unemployed or NEET and stuck in the house would begin to lose their mind?

I've spent half my life lying around bored out of my mind and I live in a total fantasy world. Wish I could harness it in some way
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Can I just ask OP if you post regularly on any other boards or sites? I'd be interested in learning more from you once this thread 404's
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>>39041429
ok. correct me if i'm wrong
i don't read or listen because something in me doesnt want me to do that, it's sabotaging me. not doing those things is self destructive because it's denying me the knowledge and experience i want.
a Will must be present and i must negotiate with myself.
how did your Will come about?

i thought about sitting down and only listening to an album. i then immediately thought, that sounds boring as shit!! is forcing myself to do this a good start?

>double think around
any material i can read on this to get started?
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>>39041858
Yes. It starts with a genuine and existential decision that you want to meet her. Remember that you've been hurting her for a long time and she may be angry. She may want to hurt you back. She may not trust you. But if you are kind and patient, it's the nature of the Anima to want to embrace you, to show you love and kindness and acceptance. She has the power to make you literally love yourself if you let her.

Just remember that reuniting with the Anima is just the first step. She will make you whole again, and then you will have the strength to begin addressing everything else.
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>>39042023
>She has the power to make you literally love yourself if you let her.
I really want to believe that. So correct method would be lucid dreaming or active imagination?
>first step
I know that the next is Shadow, then Magician and Self in the end. I wish that my journey would look like Jung one in Red Book but at the same time it was only a book about his personal journey and it doesnt mean that i'd get the identical one too.
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>>39041889
Me? Nothing. The very first thing you need to do is start unpacking all the unstated assumptions packed like sardines into your short posting, things like the value of knowledge, what money represents, how we establish meaning, what your purpose or goal is in life, and why you believe it would be easier for someone who isn't you to fix the things you have immediate and unrestricted access to inside yourself.
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>>39042082
What does it have to do with you?
I asked:
>>39041889
>What mystical thing can I do to fix it?
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>>39041903
To fear your unconscious is to be afraid of your own identity. Have you taken the heroic dose? Have you experienced ego-death? I suspect that a lot of your problems will solve themselves if you can release that fear of losing your identity. And the best way to release that fear is by embracing it. Take the heroic dose and let go. Allow your sense of self to slip away and experience just being instead of doing: Be Here Now, as the Buddhists say.
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>>39041911
Just realised you already answered the book question here >>39039284
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>>39042139
>heroic dose
Not that anon but is there another way without drugs?
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>>39041911
Man and his Symbols is an excellent place to start. Jung is a very straightforward writer, and if you have any background at all in psychology or philosophy, you'll have no difficulty digging right in. You might also find Herman Hesse's Siddhartha an interesting read as a fictionalized account of the Gautama Buddha's enlightenment, with some interesting insight into stillness and the importance of having both the patience to wait for a solution and the wisdom to recognize it when it presents itself.
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>>39042227
How do I meet other people who like Carl Jung? I would have conversations more about this topic.
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>>39041944
Yes, isolation has a deforming effect on the psyche of social creatures. Read this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_Despair

But there are also people who have survives years or even decades in complete isolation without going completely insane. It's certainly changed them, but not necessarily for the worse. There's a vast internal sea, a sea which as far as I can tell has no bottom. You can spend your entire life exploring its depths and never grow bored or lonely. I sometimes spend months without any human contact to the point where I sometimes forget how to talk and make bird-like squawking noises as cashiers when I try to say "thank you," but I like to think I'm not completely insane.
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>>39035368
How do I get started with this mysticism? Can you recommend any books or so? PDF links would be highly appreciated.
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>>39040895

What do you mean "left-handed writing"? I am left handed, i do that every time i write
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>>39041972
I used to hang around /b/ sometimes in the old days, when you could refresh the front page and always find two or three interesting yarns by story-tellers whose skills were good enough that trying to guess whether it was true or all bullshit was half the fun. These days I can refresh for hours and find nothing but teenaged penises, furries, and neo-Nazi propaganda.

I spend a lot of time on DALnet IRC in a community I founded about 20 years ago which is still going strong.
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>>39041018
>I've met and talked to gods. I've fought demons.
wheewww lad
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>>39042014
"To point at the moon a finger is needed, but woe to those who take the finger for the moon." -- D.T. Suzuki

The strength of mysticism is that it's about personal and immediate exploration. I can try to point at things, but you have to do the work itself. It sounds like you are starting to understand the nature of your evasion structures, but I think it would be counter-productive for my to start listing specific things you need to think and read and do in order to break through. I'm concerned you may start looking at my finger and not at what I'm pointing at.

When we talk about Will, we're referring to something specific, what the Greeks referred to as thelema. Thelema is the inner force which gives rise to pneuma. Pneuma is the breath life, that which acts upon the world. So thelema is whatever it is inside you which gives you the strength to breathe changes upon reality. I can't be any more clear than that, because we're talking about concepts which must be immediately experienced and can't actually be explained with words.
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>>39042315

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_Despair

Thats pretty fucking sad
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>>39042080
There's no correct method. This is why I was so hesitant about giving any more specific instructions to the anon in the last message I posted. Ritual is there to provide structure, not to strangle your imagination. There's no right way or wrong way. Feel your way. Use your intuition. Learn how to sense what is just right for you, no matter how wrong others tell you it is.

It's vitally important to remember that it's the intention behind the doing which matters, not the doing itself. The manifestation of Will is about intentionality. Once the desire is there, the rest will just naturally flow from your intent. The Chinese refer to this as wei wu wei, or "action no-action." It means to be passive within your own nature; your body may be very active, but your mind is quiet and still inside yourself, watching as your body acts effortlessly.
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>>39042526
>>39042526
I see the complexity of it but sadly it can take a lot of time and there's no progress bar when trying to reunite. I guess the only thing that saddens me is that i'm trying to read psychology on it, ask her to appear in dreams but there's nothing.
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>>39042176
I addressed this here: >>39037646

It is indeed possible to get to exactly the same place without drugs, but it may require hours of meditation and weeks or months of training, discipline, and practice. The drugs are a short-cut.
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>>39042290
There's a Jungian Society in a lot of places. They tend to be a bit... cultish in my experience, but you'll definitely get a big dose of Jungian psychology. You can also find people who understand a lot of this among esotericists, but it's hard to dig out the handful of genuinely awakened individuals from the hordes attracted to the goat skulls and black candles and surface displays used to distract sleepers from the hidden truths.
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>>39042346
I left some suggestions here: >>39039284
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>>39042641
Yea I noticed meanwhile. Which one should I start with? Also do crystals (minerals) have any use in this?
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>>39042614
How do you know which are fake?
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>>39042352
What I meant is opposite-hand writing. Writing with the "wrong" hand forces you to use different parts of your brain than you normally use for writing. This has the odd effect of producing different answers for the same questions depending on which hand is doing the answering. You may find this article interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_hand_syndrome
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>>39042614
Have you ever thought of making a online Jung society? There aren't any Jung societies were I live by.
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>>39042560
Be patient. You've spent a long time punishing her and she will be reluctant to expose herself to more hurt. By being patient and consistent, you will show her that this time you mean it, and that you won't push her back down again. The Anima *wants* to help you. It's her nature.
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>>39042689
>There aren't any Jung societies were I live by.
You have to be psychologist to join them.
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>>39042708
Alright anon, i'll try to contact her and keep my dream journal so see if something changes.
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>>39042657
Start with whichever book your intuition tells you to start with. The whole point of this is to get you in touch with the powerful unconscious machinery which resides below the level of your conscious awareness. *Guess* which book would be best for you.

And minerals are like any of the other trappings associated with mysticism -- tarot cards, astrology charts, robes, black candles, pentagrams, skulls, runes, yarrow sticks, et al. -- their function is to induce suggestibility through superstition. If you think there's a chance they could work, then absolutely, yes, they work.
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>>39042662
Matthew 7:16-20
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>>39042774
What is the fruit of genuinely awakened individuals? Arent they so kept to themselves that you wouldnt know about them being awake?
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>>39042804
Remember what I wrote about the Gautama Buddha's last words: "Be a lamp unto thyself."

Awakened individuals shine with a kind of light which is nearly blinding for those with eyes to see. Trust me when I tell you that it's almost impossible to make a mistake. You can see the light. But be equally cautious; among the awakened there are also predators. Qlippoth, energy thieves who will leave you feeling weak. /x/ is full of them. I encounter them sometimes when I do tarot readings, spending hour after hour just soaking up everything I give them and contributing nothing back.

I've been contributing to this thread for something like 9 hours now. I feel like I've been worked over with a baseball bat because I've given so much of myself here. But I did so willingly here. Qlippoth don't ask for permission, they just take. They stroke your ego and tell you what you want to hear -- then they lap up your light like vampire bats.

Qlippoth are the hollow shell which remains when all purpose and meaning and spirit has gone. They are the flip side of the kabbalistic Tree of Life -- the Tree of Death.
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>>39042883
>I encounter them sometimes when I do tarot readings
Do you still do reading or you need some preparation for this? I'd be very interesting in such reading as you're clearly advanced at interpretation. I'd like to give some energy back for this but it's similar to the burning match.
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>>39041288
Dankie vir jou wyse inset pel, maar ek is
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>>39042948
Tarot is about reading the person, not the cards. The cards have been designed to be archetypally generic, to have so many potential meanings that no matter what cards turn up, they will say something accurate about everyone. So when I do a readings, I'm in a light trance and allowing my subconscious to pick up cues like eye movements, word choices, body language, hand gestures, and so on. I play hotter-or-colder with the narrative as I watch their reaction, narrowing in on what it is their unconscious reactions are telling me.
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>>39043023
Oh, so it means that you're doing readings only in person?
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>>39043046
Yes. There's no way to do an accurate reading unless you're close enough to the person to read even the tinest movements of the eyes and quirk of the lips.
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>>39043075
I see. What's your opinion on stuff like numerology and palmistry?
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>>39043099
They all work exactly the same way: apophenia. They create a random medium against which the unconscious mind projects itself. Nothing supernatural or psychic involved. But you know, I think the mysteries of the unconscious mind are lot more amazing than magic and hokum.
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>>39043226
How can you learn something out of unconsciousness if it's so elusive?
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Well, it's been 10 hours since I started and I'm beat. Thanks to everyone who made another one of these threads successful, and I'll be back for another one in a few months.

And remember:

>"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." -- Albert Einstein
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>>39041349
its strength -- that it gets whatever it's aimed at -- is also its weakness, since what you want is not necessarily what you need
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>>39041543
Bill Gates seems like a good dude
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>>39035368
what is your concept of happiness and of how to obtain it?
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>>39043311

Going out on double 11's. Very fitting.

Thanks for your work, OP. Look forward to your next thread
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I wonder if he/she will pop back to see what's happening with this thread. Was fascinating; I'd love to have them as an online friend :)
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>>39035368
what do you think about bpd?

you have a NEED to love someone, and then when you get it, all you do is things that push that person away which makes you suffer. and then after they leave, you feels so bad you want to kill yourself

it feels like it is made to make you miserable, it is like a punishment



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