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/r9k/ - ROBOT9001

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Hi everyone! I apologize for missing Sunday, I spent more time than I planned on a lonely dirt-road trip down the valley and then spent some time at the gym.

After years of atheism followed by a return to the church, I feel like I experience religion several levels higher. It's as if I just starting reading about history again, for the first time since I was ten. I understood what all the words meant individually, but I didn't have the life experiences and philosophical development necessary to understand the depth behind them.
I'd often ask that age-old question, "If God loves me then why do I get sad?" I never understood that through sadness and depression I learned how to appreciate and create joy. I went through life like a child, not understanding why he had to do chores like brushing his teeth or washing his bedsheets and believing that a "cool" parent would allow him to stay up until midnight every night and eat cake and ice cream for every meal. But through the tragedies, hardships, and suicidal depression in my life I learned how to love it. I learned how to see light in everything, and appreciate people I once found intolerable, as people once found me intolerable - and often still do!
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The sacrifice of the Christ was to bear all of the hardships, sins, and sorrows of the world, to understand so He might set free. His sacrifice was not just removing our responsibility for our sins, but understanding through experience the pain and anguish that this life brings so many of us. He not only forgave us but felt each stab and every sorrow, personally, as though it was His own mother dying or His own brother killed in front of His eyes. Christ also fundamentally changed our relationship with the Lord, and brought us forever closer to Him.
He reminds us that this life is temporary, but brings us peace and love throughout its hardest times. He promises an eternity of happiness and salvation, which is often misinterpreted as His explicitly promising a fairy-tale retirement village in the sky or some kind of Borg assimilation into an extradimensional entity. However, His promises of an eternity of bliss is tremendously philosophical, and hinges upon your acceptance of His salvation as well. The freedom He brings is greater than earthly wealth or treasures, and we see this in the multitude of blissfully content faithful living in poverty but inside the Church - which we must remember was one of His greatest gifts to mankind, not an optional thing we could attend if we felt like it - against those countless wealthy individuals of the world who hoard millions or even billions and live a life of indulgence but still fall to depression and suicide.
I hear you anon, and I want to listen to what you're saying, but I just found out that Islam's 72 virgins are also 90 foot tall giantesses, and that's kind of my fetish, so I'm a little tempted to switch over to the dark side here.
God bless you, OP, and amen.
Are you that protestant robot with a discord server?
If yes, I miss you.
Hah this thread is ironic right? Heh I get it
>I hear you anon, and I want to listen to what you're saying, but I just found out that Islam's 72 virgins are also 90 foot tall giantesses
Source on that?
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>Islam's 72 virgins
Even if the promises of false, goat-fucking prophets carried any weight, imagine being trapped in a room with 72 Tumblrinas - who were so ugly even a betacuck wouldn't take their virginities - for all eternity.

I'm not a protestant, I'm a [nondenominational/baptist(lowercase 'b')/etc.) Christian. I believe in the Lord God, the Savior Christ, and the Holy Spirit and I believe that He gave us the Church, not the Southern Baptist Conference or the Roman C*tholic Papal Authority or anything else.

And I do not use discord, unfortunately. I'm considering getting on it, though.

It's ok to study Christianity ironically, anon. Although I believe fully that the Lord Christ's salvation has bettered my life and that His future rewards are beyond my comprehension, I also believe that any discussion of Christianity for any reason is good - ironic or no. After all, I believe in its truth and its inherent value, so I believe that any discussion of any kind will allow knowledge of Him and His love to spread.
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>Transparent to the marrow of their bones
> [nondenominational/baptist(lowercase 'b')/etc.) Christian
Isn't it a kind of protestantism?
> He gave us the Church, not the Southern Baptist Conference or the Roman C*tholic Papal Authority or anything else
What's the Church then?

Does free will exist?
Is the Scripture infallible?
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I'll admit that's a bit creepy.
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>Isn't it a kind of protestantism?
Well, 'protestantism' - right in its name - formed as a response to the Catholic Church's heresies (at least publicly - as with any major movement, there was regional politics at play as well.) The Protestant movement was undoubtedly incredibly important to modern and Biblical Christianity, but defining my views with a movement which started a millennium and a half after the ascendance of Christ and directly as a return from the heresies of the Catholic Church just seems very strange.
While the generally-recognized and vague "Baptist" denomination is a relatively recent church, at least in its recognition as a distinct and loose organization, it derives its name from the original practice of baptist and John the Baptist, whose prophecies of the Christ actually predated the Christ Himself.
I can't speak for all baptist churches as (and this is why I love it, and believe it to be primarily a denomination of true and faithful followers) they are very independent and even various Baptist associations are strictly gatherings of independent churches rather than anyone following a central earthly authority. However, the ones I attend are almost entirely based out of the Gospels, and use other books generally as history or philosophy rather than divine commands - which I believe is right. Most particularly, the letters of the Apostles are just words of men, not to be taken as strictly or divinely as the Red Letters.
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>What's the Church
Metaphorically, the Bride of Christ and along with the Holy Spirit one of his greatest gifts to Mankind. Literally, the Church is a gathering of fellow faithful, a community and family of love, and an aid to each individual follower to stay true and great in his life and his path towards Christ. The Church is not just a social club, but could be compared to both a college and a support group. The church continually grows as it allows its followers to expand their knowledge and understanding of the Scripture, while helping its faithful stay true and reminding them of the greatness of the Lord and the traps and errors of the World.
Just like anything else, the Church helps its members in all walks of life, both spiritual and worldly.

>Does free will exist
Yes, absolutely. This has been explicitly stated throughout Scripture, from Adam to the Apostles. The Lord can at times predict and even influence peoples' decisions, but neither of these things means it doesn't exist. However, something as little as the promise of free food can predict and influence peoples' behavior, but that doesn't mean the existence of free food means free will doesn't exist.
>Is the Scripture infallible
This is one of the greatest mysteries I have with my faith. After all, there are so many different translations even of the same text, and even the bible itself was assembled by a council of mortal men time after time. I do believe, as I previously stated, that the Gospels are true. I believe for a deep understanding of their message, however, it's necessary to study the original text and learn more about the translations. All books outside the Gospels, I believe, should be treated as supplementary reading.
Many disagree with me, and I make no claim to divine Truth in that statement. However, in all churches that I feel are faithful and true, I note that whether or not they explicitly state it they seem to share my philosophies.
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Well my friends I have a brief professional obligation to meet, so I'll be away. At the current rate it seems likely that my thread will be dead by the time I return, but I wish you all well and pray that the Lord can make positive changes in your lives as He has in mine.
god bless everynyan
> Literally, the Church is a gathering of fellow faithful, a community and family of love, and an aid to each individual follower to stay true and great in his life and his path towards Christ. The Church is not just a social club, but could be compared to both a college and a support group. The church continually grows as it allows its followers to expand their knowledge and understanding of the Scripture, while helping its faithful stay true and reminding them of the greatness of the Lord and the traps and errors of the World.
Well yes, sure, I guess all (at least major) denominations will tell the same.
I mean, what is the Church IRL, and why the Catholic Church and wahtever Baptist thing you mentioned are wrong and what is actually right.
> Yes, absolutely. This has been explicitly stated throughout Scripture, from Adam to the Apostles.
I disagree. That protestant discord anon I took you for have proven me that it does not exist based on the Scripture. And so, God makes you either good or evil, a believer or a sinner, it's never your choice.
> The Lord can at times predict
That sounds heretical as fuck. What do you mean 'can sometimes predict'? He's omniscient.
> I do believe, as I previously stated, that the Gospels are true.
What is the basis for you belief? Why do you call a part of the Scripture true and another - optional or whatever?
I always like these threads, thanks OP
>tfw no pure qt Christian gf to have 3 kids with
Okay, I've been recently thinking about becoming Christian again but I don't like the idea of "sin". What do I do with sin? How does it work?

Just the whole thing that "God" is something I should "praise and worship" is unsettling to me. But maybe I just need to change my perspective on what God is.
>After all, there are so many different translations even of the same text, and even the bible itself was assembled by a council of mortal men time after time

King James Version my guy, they went and collected manuscripts from all over the world (something like 16000) and compared them with the Textus Receptus(Greek original NT which was almost burned in a trash pile at the Vatican) and the Masoretic text(Hebrew OT). The Alexandrian codex was written by a cult and found to have inconsistencies with the thousands of other manuscripts. Same with Codex Vaticanus. The KJV is an offspring of the Tyndale Bible, the first english translation of the scriptures which was born specifically because William Tyndale saw right through the Church's heresies thanks to studying the scripture, and desired to make them understandable by everyone because the clergy, using Latin bibles that nobody could read, twisted scripture to keep the people under the papal authority. Tyndale was burned at the stake by the catholic church for translating the bible into english. Every company that produces "new" translations has ties to the vatican in some way.


>"you're just anti-catholic!"
If your church didn't murder people for having bibles, molest kids, worship idols, and teach completely unbiblical doctrines then you would have a valid argument to stand on
God is the self-existent all-powerful creator of the universe. As He is in heaven, His thoughts are higher than ours, so we as mere humans will never fully understand God's wisdom, but He reveals things to us as we are able to understand it.

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

1 Corinthians 2
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
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Thank you for these threads.

Here are some verses that indicate that salvation is by grace through faith. I welcome you to read the precedent and subsequent verses if you think I am taking these out of context.

4:14(John 6:35)

7:21-23(John 6:38-40)


3:3(Acts 19:4)

19:4(Luke 3:3)


1 Corinthians

2 Corinthians
As for sin, Jesus already died and took the punishment we were supposed to receive for it. What you have to do to be saved from that punishment is have faith that Jesus did that for you, and make an honest effort to refrain from it going forward.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
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Here are the other verses.

1 Thessalonians

2 Thessalonians





1 Timothy

2 Timothy


1 Peter
3:21(Colossians 2:12)

1 John

You know how your parents love you but they probably also don't want you to run naked in the street or touch a hot stove and will tell you not to do those things? God also has stuff doesn't want you to do that is for your own and other people's safety. Your parents will still love you even if you disobey them and get hit with a truck after willfully running naked in the street but those rules are for your benefit even if it seems really fun to go streaking.
There is a bearded man living in the clouds, that has a personal relationship with with each and one of the several billion people on the planet.

He also tell you not to judge other people, except he is allowed to judge everyone, and he also sort of killed but not really his one and only sort of rape baby for you because that would help people somehow.

He will come down from the same altitude people fly planes over one day and take with him those that he subjectively considers worthy.

That is literally how retarded you religiousfags are. We have been in space already, you should have adapted at least a little and made him an inter dimensional being or at least alien that created life on Earth. But no, you chose to live in the past centuries.

I truly the rapture DOES come one day and takes each and one of you retards so humanity can finally progress in piece.
>an all powerful creator is held to the same standard as the people it created

lol this is what Gnostics believe
>Jesus already died
No he didn't because you believe he's fully divine and eternally so, thus never dying and certainly not dying for your sins.
But my parents didn't die for my sins. If God died for your sins and is unconditionally all-loving, as christians believe, then it shouldn't matter what you do.
> lol this is what Gnostics believe
That's so wrong it's not even funny.
This is now a Tim Minchin thread.

Jesus dying and descending into hell is part of the Apostle's Creed though.

Jesus is God in the physical flesh form. He died in the sense that his physical body was beaten and crucified until there was no more life(the Spirit) left in it. He then was raised from the dead by the same spirit that inhabited his physical body, which is the spirit of God.

Romans 8:1
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Fuck off christcuck, your "god" died long ago, i think you should join him, kill yourself faggot
If Jesus is fully and eternally God then he did not die. At most you can say like half of Jesus died ie just his human nature which is created and finite.

>appears for the first time in a letter, probably written by Ambrose, from a Council in Milan to Pope Siricius in about AD 390
>first time in AD 390
Cool, so only four centuries after Jesus preached. Let me guess, it was "divinely inspired" so it doesn't matter?
I have hope for universal salvation so I'm really hoping Hitler, Eric, and Dylan somehow made it to heaven even if the odds don't seem in their favor but Jesus also wants us to live our lives the best we can while we're still alive on Earth, and he graciously gave us a guide on how to do that.
Literally went to other planets and edited genes ourselves.

>can get superior than this
You are either mentally challenged or cannot comprehend why the traditional being of God cannot exist.

AT MOST it would be one guy creating everything then fucking off. But even the laws of universe dictate nothing exists forever.
Stop following traditions of men
>I believe in the catholic church
So his human nature, body, died. I know that's what you say. But you also say Jesus is fully divine and eternal, hence the statement
>Jesus died for your sins
is false. Jesus did not die.
I think you're a heretic by christian standards then, since they believe even babies that die without getting baptized are doomed, let alone adults with mental understanding that have sinned.
What are you even talking about, it has nothing to do with my post.

> Literally went to other planets and edited genes ourselves.
>can get superior than this
That's weak and low-energy even for fedora atheists. At least believe that man can go further than this, if not God.
Tim 6:9
Let there be no bullshit.

Literally every verse about Jesus's death says otherwise.
Jesus died and was raised from the dead. This is the most basic fundamental theme of Christianity.
Yup catholics worship Mary and Jesus (plus 1000 "saints"). Thus God said
>And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
>Literally every verse about Jesus's death says otherwise.
None of the verses say anything about Jesus' two natures. The NT says Jesus died because the authors knew nothing about Jesus supposed eternal divine nature.
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Christian qt discord
Also atheists are gay. Get a life.
Gabriel was Satan in disguise


The Gospels are all very clear that Jesus died and was resurrected man, I don't know why you can't understand that.
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Why have you anon not embraced Jesus yet?

>it's ok to fuck kids as long as you marry them or if you're a priest
>if they complain, god is just testing them

>get wife
>beat wife with no consequences
>if not virgin, dump wife
>it's only rape if she screams
>just have to chat with Daddy every once in a while

>tragedy strikes
>thoughts and prayers

>do bad thing
>sorry Jesus
>it's ok

>be poor
>get sweet riches after your dead
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Colossians 2
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
>9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Catholics are not Christian.
Saul was the actual devil in disguise. You and your church of boy-raping money hoarders are all false prophets that invent creed centuries after Jesus left the earth. You have literally no authority. You're the most morally corrupt people on earth yet we're supposed to accept that your 1000s of church fathers were all "divinely inspired". More like inspired by satan given your track record.

>The Gospels are all very clear that Jesus died and was resurrected man, I don't know why you can't understand that.
Yes because the authors of the gospels knew nothing of Jesus supposed eternal divine nature, that was something your false prophets made up afterwards.
Prove to me that christianity is not just fanfiction of judaism.
Bullshit 4:20
It's not just people trying to control the masses by manipulating and reinterpreting the word of god as they deem fit. It's GOD'S WILL BEING MADE.

>anything bad happening is a test from god
>be rich, god wanted me like that
>be poor, it's god's way of showing me to be humble

You sad fucks need a better coping mechanism, like suicide or doing drugs.
>1 Timothy 3:16
Still nothing about two natures.
>Catholics are not Christian.
Did they go astray before or after they decided upon the trinity and bible canon?
>You and your church of boy-raping money hoarders
>church "fathers"
lol I'm not catholic bro, the pope is the actual antichrist
>the pope is the actual antichrist
I doubt it since the jews aren't following him.
Tommy Wiseau 101
It's bullshit, I did not hit her. I did nooot. Oh hi, Mark1
That's not true though, unless it's some fringe cult sect Christians have hope for God giving the gift of salvation to infants. We don't know for sure how anyone is judged when they die, all we can do is hope for the best outcome.
Daily reminder that saul's seeing jesus was actually mirages and heatstroke.
oh, look at the time
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Fuck yeah, let's do this. Oreganalo spidermooon.
>It's not just people trying to control the masses by manipulating and reinterpreting the word of god as they deem fit. It's GOD'S WILL BEING MADE.
Again, this is the catholic church who does this, which is why they used Latin bibles and banned english translations of the scriptures, even killing people for having them. Because the scripture actually warns very heavily against them in several instances. People's main problem with Christianity is due to the actions of a Roman sun-worshipping cult pretending to be Christian.

They went astray the moment they decided to worship a man and call him holy father
Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Everything the catholic church teaches is unbiblical. SO everything connected to the catholic church/vatican is also heretical. Peter was not the first "pope", the term "pope" goes directly against scripture so there's no way an Apostle who walked with Jesus would take that title.
So are you a unitarian christian?
Peter 69:2
The spider cometh
>The Gospels are all very clear that Jesus died and was resurrected man, I don't know why you can't understand that.

You understand the process of death, yeah? Your dynamic processes cease being dynamic, organs start decomposing and brain is starved of oxygen, losing it's integrity.

So which is it anon, was Jesus a robot or he did resurrect as a brain dead vegetable while being kept alive by modern day life support?
I believe what the scriptures say, because the bible is the word of God, I'm not any denomination or group.
God wrote it himself, right?
But the bible canon was decided upon with people from a denomination and group. How can you believe it's divinely inspired but reject the trinity(if you do) or the church which still claim it's divinely inspired? Because it isn't exactly a small issue the church got wrong...
My pastor encourages the decline of the West and the faith by preaching about tolerance towards Muslims. Why should I go to church every week to hear this man?
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*poof* y'all red now
Look at me everyone, i'm such a good Christian. God loves everyone and stuff. Unless they're not white...or got born in a different part of the world.
It's not strange that they're racist fucks when they spend hours every day literally worshipping the picture of a white scandinavian dude.
>be Jesus
>born in the middle east
>blue eyes and white
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Mark 16:6
And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

Luk 24:39
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Yes God authored the bible,
men merely penned the words.
2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This is the only thing I'm not sure on, and I'm very careful because I don't want to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Hebrew LORD is translated from Elohim, which denotes a plurality. In Genesis God says "let US make man in OUR image". John 1:1 explains this further. And only one verse actually says anything about 3 entities bearing witness in heaven. So my position on trinity vs non-trinity isn't settled yet. However, we do know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life(John 14 6).
Hey guys, what if Jesus was actually female? and the whole blood of Jesus thing is just menstruation and the impaling of pike was just an euphemism to getting dick?
>men merely penned the words.
yes and then men chose which penned words were canon and which weren't. And then men chose which statements of creed were valid and which weren't.

So you see where I'm going with this. You've already opened the door for more revelation so why are you denying the church?

>This is the only thing I'm not sure on
Think about it this way. If Jesus really preached the trinity, and God told you it in words, which you have read, would you really be be unsure of something this important??! It should be the first thing you learn!
Also I reject any man or group and any teachings of a "church". The scriptures say not to call anyone your father, teacher, or master, and to be careful of people who attempt spiritual authority over you
>handle me, and see;
No thanks, my mom told me not to talk to middle eastern strangers.

>Yes God authored the bible
So it was written by men who heard the voices? If you'd do that nowadays they would lock you up in the loony bin but apparently it was totally legit word of god about some thousand years ago.

Did they also heard correctly about the parts in the bible where you have to carry the shovel and bury your poop? Or it also has some hidden religious meaning? Or that it's fine to drown animals or beat women?
I do see where you're going, but I don't believe the bible because of people, I believe the bible because I believe in God. God said His words would be preserved, I couldn't care less what council of men in funny hats decided what, God is the one in control, this has been proven because the Alexandrians tried to change the bible, but the KJV translators found that it had many discrepancies with the 16000 other manuscripts.
>God authored the bible,
men merely penned the words.
>All scripture is given by inspiration of God

So they were either talking to god (hearing voices, thus mentally ill) or they were writing fiction.

By that logic we should also worship Talos, the Seven Gods form game of thrones or Sauron. at least those francises have better world building.
Then what about the Quran which says that the only one worthy of worship is God and that this is what Jesus taught and every other Prophet? Doesn't this make more sense than church teachings?
Praise Talos. Those dirty elves will lever take him away from us.

I believe that God preserved His words which is the Quran, recited as is to the Prophet as opposed to being a collection of writings after the Prophet passed away in a different language even...
So, do you lads believe in hell? and if you do, do you also think it is a place of torture?
what about people who like torture? is hell for them only vanilla stuff?
You're trying to apply man's logic to how God works, and trying to interpret the bible in your own way, which is not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to read the bible for what it says, not what you think it should mean.

2 Timothy
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

>in modern times they would be put away for hearing voices
Proverbs 1
20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

I don't care about the quran I'm not muslim and Mohammed was deceived by Satan.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 2
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Corinthians 11:4 - For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
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What's your proof that the scribes of the authors who are anonymous and whose writing was transmitted by unknown people and then gathered by "divinely inspired" men were not deceived by the devil?

And if you already believe that christians got corrupted(trinity, worshipping a man, idolatry etc) then would it not make sense that God would send another message? The message of the Quran is that of monotheism as taught by all the Prophets. Why would the devil make that up?
>You're trying to apply man's logic to how God works, and trying to interpret the bible in your own way, which is not what you're supposed to do

Aren't you interpreting the bible too in your own way though? And since it was written by dirty sand men, then why should it not be open for interpretation?

>You're supposed to read the bible for what it says, not what you think it should mean.
So believe, never question. Gotcha. You realize that is a tactic to control the masses and keep them at bay, right?

bullshit 9-11
You know, you should really stop pasting crap and start making arguments or I'll fucking spam you with The Room quotes since Tommy Wiseau is MY god. Then tell you you cannot possibly understand his way and what he wrote.
Sounds like your average family gathering.
seems like it can be interpreted in a few different ways. some verses infer that hell means you simply die and cease to exist. some you could argue mean everlasting torture, but you could also argue that ceasing to exist is everlasting torture.

pretty interesting. i am on the fence about Christianity.
>What's your proof
Faith in God. (How I came to understand how real God is is a conversation for another thread)The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. And God cannot lie.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Anyone who changes the bible is cursed by God
Revelation Chapter 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

You should quesion everything, and the bible literally answers any questions you have, but if you don't even understand that the bible is the word of God you're just reading another book.
>Tommy Wiseau is my god
Have fun then. I hope the Lord opens your eyes and you be saved from eternal damnation.
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Whatever you do don't fall for the catholic meme. Scripture alone and only scripture.
>God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man
I personally agree but christians don't. I mean, you say the Quran was from the devil but then you agree that it's more correct than christians so...what exactly in the Quran is wrong?

>Anyone who changes the bible is cursed by God
>Revelation Chapter 22
Yes but your faith in God, how does it apply specifically to the bible and not the Quran? Or even the church fathers??
>The message of the Quran is that of monotheism as taught by all the Prophets. Why would the devil make that up?

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan used the scripture to tempt Jesus

Matthew 4
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God

The bible is the only true word of God, not the Quran or anything else.
So you should question everything except the bible, right? How convenient for god right? that way he's making sure he's always right.

Have you actually read it btw? And I'm not talking about the child version with illustrations. Or are you talking out of your ass?

>Have fun then. I hope the Lord opens your eyes and you be saved from eternal damnation.
And I really hope you give The Room a try and save yourself from eternal ignorance. And just like Jesus, Tommy also has unknown origins!
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>lust after other guys
>tried to pray it away for years
>still a khv but the desire is still there
What am I supposed to do bros?
No, you should question the bible, but when you do it with the intent to "outsmart" God instead of honestly trying to understand it, you'll end up with your own interpretation, which is wrong.
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Now compare to a mosque where people in plain robes are prostrating to God(which Jesus is reported to have done in the bible as opposed to any of those christian church rituals).

Islam could not be from the devil.
Both Islam and Catholicism are of the devil.
>deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
You mean like Saul? Who never even met Jesus but appointed himself as his apostle??

>The bible is the only true word of God, not the Quran or anything else.
You keep saying that but no explanation is given...
you should go tell other gay people they're going to hell

then get a wife and make her feel like shit for not having a penis

That, or you could fucking grow up, accept yourself and realize skydaddy shouldn't be in your pants.
>dude just pick and choose what to follow lmao
So if I draw any conclusions or ask any questions that he doesn't like, they are wrong. Right.

You realize how ignorant this sounds?
You don't have any principles that's the problem. You can't explain your beliefs.
No buddy, it's YOU that cannot explain his beliefs here.

My approach is very scientific and reason based, where's here you are telling me that I don't understand 'JUST BECAUSE'.

The difference between you and me is that you are still lying to yourself.
You clearly don't have a clue about catholicism... You speak like it was 16th century again. I pity you. No guidance is the quickest path to the ignorance.
>And God cannot lie.
Then why do you believe God turned satan into Gabriel?
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>false apostle
>wrote 13 books of the bible
>was struck blind and healed, then converted
If you believeSaul(Paul) is a false apostle then you have no faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Thats not what I said but ok.

I do have solid principles, I'm just not aligned to any religious group, so you can't attack my arguments by "well your group does THIS" or "your group believes THAT".

Catholicism is Roman Sun worship. YOU are the one who is decieved.

Satan turned himself into the appearance of Gabriel. Satan is not God the Father. (unless you're catholic and worship the pope)

1 Peter 5
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
>Thats not what I said but ok.
That's right, you only talk in bible quotes because your brain is too small or your brainwashed head is too deep in your own ass to form a proper argument.

Holy Mother of Wife of God
"I got the results of the test back. I definitely have breast cancer."
Sure guy. God bless you.
>cannot win argument by logic and reason because religion has none of that
Well I guess we believe in different things then! GOD BLESS YOU.

Why do you religious fags always do this?
>thinks I'm religious
>thinks my faith isn't backed by logic and reason
You aren't ready for the truth friend.

>alien seeding
>the occult
>the new world
>satanic world control
Now that's one version I could totally get by!
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Sorry you believe a lie. It's not your fault, unless you don't look into it for yourself, then you are willfully ignorant.
The truth shall MAKE you free anon. Choose wisely.
>unironically believing the world is flat

you cant be serious. Do you think thousands of scientists are larping?
>the NT is from God because it said so

>so you can't attack my arguments
Of course I can't when you don't even have any arguments.

>Satan turned himself into the appearance of Gabriel
Why didn't Satan turn himself into the appearance of Saul?
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>Do you think thousands of scientists are larping?
They sure love their secret clubs
and of course you use the lowest res image of this you could find
I thought we were talking about waking up from the matrix but ok
yeah because celebrity scientists who are obvious going to be friends with other celebrities count for all scientists

do you have the autism?
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me too frend :3
please contain your LARPing to /pol/ thanks
>because you don't have any arguments
The truth stand on its own, whether you believe it or not. The bible is the unbroken infallible word of God, it's up to you to understand that.
2 Corinthians 13:8
For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

All of your famous celebrities are part of the same club, the same club which has a vested interest in hiding the proof of the existence of God. You are being given a real redpill/bluepill moment here, you can keep following the teachings of lying men or understand that an all-powerful creator exists. Choose wisely.
>flat earther christian LARPer
alright have fun
>All of your famous celebrities are part of the same club, the same club which has a vested interest in hiding the proof of the existence of God.

you are being stupid. I am talking about actual academic scientists that are professors, do you think they are all lying and larping about the earth being round?
this pic is funny because you can actually see the curvature inbetween the red line and the planet. kek

I bet you believe the world is only 6000 years old too you fucking fag
>he thinks the education system isn't heavily manipulated

I'm not being stupid, the lies are just that obvious to me because I used to be an occult-loving atheist who trusted popular science like most of the users on this site. There is no absolute proof of the globe, and more proof for the earth being a flat surface. ALl of these things can be tested by yourself.
Why did God make a world where you have to cause pain on others to survive?

Animals and plants scientifically proven to feel pain and scream, why even live?
Have you actually studied physics or did you get your knowledge from youtube videos and memes?
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That's the beauty of the truth, you don't need millions of dollars of equipment or a shiny sheet of paper to prove it. Simple observation and common sense tells you everything you need to know.
And what people call "physics" is actually easy to debunk. Why don't small rocks fly towards big rocks if gravity is the result of mass? Why can a spinning ball hold millions of gallons of water to its surface but birds and planes can fly?
yet another pic where the horizon is clearly curved.
what are you trying? like do you have to find people with legit eye problems to believe this shit?
this image is woke as fuck
Of course you don't have eyes.
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>flat earther
holy shit you can't be serious
Be bad at physics AND math. Honestly I don't know what I expected.

Honestly sometimes I wonder myself. Are they actually this retarded or is my paranoia telling me this is some kinda psyop to discredit christianity or something by having someone pose as a flat earther and christian. I'm not even religious either. I guess it's kinda one of those things where you think to yourself that it's too retarded to be true, but it happens.
>globe earther
holy shit you can'e be serious

Nice non-argument

>gets confronted with solid evidence that debunks everything he's said
>lol he's just retarded

Some people will see and still not believe


>discounts a youtube video just because its a youtube video
>even though its something you can do and prove for yourself

and I'm the stupid one? lol

The Earth being flat proves the bible to be literally true, and proves the existence of a creator, and thats why they don't want you to know it.
God Bless you anon for making this threat.

Just a heads up, anyone in this threat should pay no attention to the protestant posters

The Bible was assembled by Catholics and written to Evangelize others over 50 years after the death of Jesus. It was written down simply to defend the orthodox against the heretics and pagans. The apostles formulated the doctrine for the Bible thus giving their teachings primacy. Jesus never said that the Bible is the end all to be all. Certainly very important but not the entirely of teaching. The rest the apostles passed down orally to their personally picked successors who eventually became the Catholic church as we know it.

Second, the Bible should never be interpreted in-depth by the layman who has no idea about Hebrew, Greek, or Mediterranean culture/history of the time. Trying to translate a 2000 year book into modern English when so many concepts literally don't exist in our culture, have massive grammatical differences, or contain untranslatable literary devices just makes you an idiot using it in English without proper training. Sure, read the Bible, but don't go formulating your own theology if you don't know your stuff. Read commentary with it from as early as possible.

Personal interpretation of the Bible and a lack of tradition has brought upon the abhorrent Pentecostal movement that warps spirituality, liberal Protestantism that ordains women, and the slew of hundreds of other protestant denominations that split off at their will randomly. And keep in mid, this is just the issue with the bible interpretation of Protestantism, never mind its spirituality, political aspect, etc.

St. Thomas Aquinas has fantastic commentaries on the Bible that are fantastic for understanding doctrine and the basis behind it. https://dhspriory.org/thomas/
The Catholic church is the whore of babylon and Protestants are just undercover Catholics

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Not your church, or any church organizations. Traditions are not what saves you, because you are not saved by works. Everything the Catholic church teaches is wrong.
how is the earth being flat any more sensible than it being a globe
wtf would be on the edges or underside of a flat earth
just baka
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Your own priests don't even know the bible. This is why Tyndale translated into english so that EVERYONE could understand the scripture so they aren't deceived by the "church"

According to Tim Staples, prominent Catholic priest:
"2 Chronicles 6 20: Only God knows the hearts of the children of men"

What it actually says:

2 Chronicles 6
20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place.

It must suck being part of a "church" that gets constantly proven wrong by the very bible it claims to use.
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That position assumes earth is a planet in space. It's not, its a flat plane with an ice ring around it that speads out in every direction forever(or until it meets the base of a giant glass dome).

I'm assuming this is bait with that photo, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised with how Protestantism is so anti-intellectual. I never said tradition saves you, I'm saying tradition lets you know how to interpret the Bible in such a way that you may be saved.

With regard to works, the Catholic Church has never taught one "earns" salvation. It is an inheritance (Galatians 5:21), freely given to anyone who becomes a child of God (1 John 3:1), so long as they remain that way (John 15:1-11). You can't earn it but you can lose the free gift given from the Father (James 1:17).

But if you are unironically protestant, I can only pray you see the light from the echo chamber of modern individualism and begin to actually study the background of church history and patristics.
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water level also proves the earth to be flat
the property of water is to take the shape of its container, and the sea level is not curved
also water cannot stay on a spinning ball, pic related
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>proof of your churches idolatry
>lol its bait

Okay. I pray the Lord opens your eyes and you be not deceived by false religions.

Providing one example doesn't account for the entirety of the church. Regardless, I will fully agree that many priests don't know the bible fully. But there are theologians and then there are parish priests. The first create and uphold doctrine, the second do not. Hate to break it to you, but the Bible is not the entirety of Christian teaching.

And once again, trying to extract doctrine from a (relatively) modern english translation is always a poor choice.
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Study of church history is how I know the Catholic church is the most evil entity on the face of the earth

>Hate to break it to you, but the Bible is not the entirety of Christian teaching.
Yes it is, sola scriptura you papist idolator.

Sorry dude, posting random provocatory images and strawman arguments doesn't do it for me.
Revelation Chapter 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
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>they worship a wife beating pedophile
>they eliminate Christianity as they spread
>"he hates them because they're brown xd

Show me where exactly in the Bible it says that. You clearly have no idea of the historical purpose of the Bible is if you think the teachings of the apostles are null and void. Like I have stated the Bible was meant to defend the church against heresy.

>Study of church history is how I know the Catholic church is the most evil entity on the face of the earth

Again, not an argument if you don't say why. And I'm sure you read very intellectual non-biased books.

And Martin Luther took away books from the Bible. The biblical canon agreed on by the successors the apostles was changed, violating the very verses you quote.
wow youre so smart, of course water cant stay on that ball
Now make that experiment with a ball the size of earth :^)
I can show you every bible verse that proves all of your church traditions to be false

Revelation Chapter 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

>why is the church evil
Lets see:
>idolatry(eucharist, praying to saints, paying to statues and images)
>bone worship
>calling a man "holy father"
>killing christians for owning bibles
>systematic child sexual abuse
>teaching works-based salvation
>teaching that Mary is the mother of God and queen of heaven
>teaching purgatory doctrine

I'm not a Lutheran.
The retards arguing on this thread put me off Christianity. lots of Christians are retarded and regurgitate stuff with out understanding it and i dont want to be part of that crowd
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uh oh...

I never said you are lutheran, but protestants use the bible used by Luther I hope you realize.

Once again, Luther and the bible is protestants use is not the one assembled by the successors of the apostles.

Don't think you understand idolatry since Catholics do not pray to saints, but rather for their intercession. Just as I ask a friend to pray to God for me. Same with Mary, who because she begat Jesus who is God, thus became the mother of God.

Purgatory is completely Biblical and necessary theologically.
>lots of Christians are retarded and regurgitate stuff with out understanding it and i dont want to be part of that crowd
How do you know who understands what when you don't even understand what they're arguing about?
Don't trust what people say, read the bible for yourself, with an honest intent to understand it and it will make sense to you. People lie, God doesn't. If you believe the bible was written by inspiration of God then you will be guided into all truth.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Notice how always when someone speaks about his faith openly a swarm of people is gathering to disprove him, ridicule him and insult him? Really makes you think...

haha yeah dude just read a 2000 year old document from the near east written in Greek with a Hebrew background and you'll get it no problem!
lots of stuff in the bible is left up to interpretation though, such as hell. Hell means multiple things according to scripture.
I'm not protestant either man.

>since Catholics do not pray to saints, but rather for their intercession
You are not supposed to pray to dead people, not can anyone intercede for you besides Jesus.
1 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

>Same with Mary, who because she begat Jesus who is God, thus became the mother of God.
Jeremiah 44:18

But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

Dude the scriptures keep btfo of your traditions. Worshiping anyone else alongside God through Jesus breaks the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20)

>Purgatory is completely Biblical and necessary theologically.
Show me the verses then

>lots of stuff in the bible is left up to interpretation though,
But its not
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
You sure won't get it with that mindset.
>But its not

but it is, peter is wrong. Hell is clearly referred to in different ways in the bible. either the translation is shit, peter is wrong, or the holy ghost was having a laugh.

What the hell are you then if you aren't Catholic, you clearly aren't Orthodox, and you aren't Protestant. Non-Christian? I hope you are aware that if you aren't Catholic or Orthodox, you automatically fall into the Protestant category. I have never heard someone that uses a Catholic bible and wasn't Catholic.
You wouldn't in the first place without proper context.
Hell is translated from Sheol and Gehenna, which are two different "regions" of the same place.

>What the hell are you then
I don't follow any of these heretic man-made religions I believe in the infallibility and literal trueness of the Scriptures given by the living God. ALL manmade religions/named groups are wrong. And Protestants are undercover Catholics you can't fool me.
>Hell is translated from Sheol and Gehenna, which are two different "regions" of the same place.

What does hell mean exactly then?

You are Protestant then. Protestant just means protesting against Catholics. A Bible only Christian is still protestant. You could have just told me that instead of me having to ask you 3 times what sort of doctrines if any you believe in.
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>life starts feeling worse
>but at least I don't jack off anymore
It's just so tiresome..
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
>lowest hell
^From this we can concur that hell has levels

Job 11:8
It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
Proverbs 15:24
The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
Luke 10:15 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
^Hell is deep

Psalms 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
^Hell is a place

Psalms 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
^a place for wicked people

Isaiah 14:15
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
^Hell is(or has)a pit

Matthew 10:28 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
^the soul and body can be destroyed in hell

Habakkuk 2:5
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:

Hell is a place as much as it is an entity, a "state-of-being" if you will. When you die your soul either goes to heaven with God or the pit of Hell, which will be cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
But I'm not a protestant, I don't want to reform the church. You use categories and titles to completely dismiss what someone says anytime you're proven wrong just so you can say "Oh he's one of THOSE so don't listen to him". Not everything fits into a neat little box, and the Truth isn't team sports or politics.

I never said that, I just wanted to understand what your beliefs where regarding denomination, but ok you can strawman me again if you want. You are refuting something that I was not using it as an argument. All you have done is spew strawman arguments about your lack of knowledge of Catholicism with your own personal interpretation of the Bible.

Regardless, you are still protestant. That's what scholars define nondenominational under. It doesn't matter at this point since you have avoided it so long, but at least I know now. Would've been helpful to know when we were talking about Bible variations.
>lack of knowledge of Catholicism
I know your church murdered christians for having bibles, I know you teach false doctrines not backed by scripture, I know your priests like kids too much. And I also know that the scripture is very clear about staying away from man-made traditions. The fact that you submit to a "pope" breaks Matthew 23:9 which says call NO MAN YOUR FATHER UPON THE EARTH. Catholicism's most fundamental doctrine is already wrong.
>my personal interpretation
I don't "interpret" the bible, I take it for what it says. No wonder Catholics dont want people reading it.

Ok dude, it's obvious we aren't getting anywhere with this. Every time I reply to you you only respond to parts of it and you refuse to see anything in context beyond the literal at every point of the Bible. Hate to break it to you, but the Bible clearly is not meant to just pick up and get a formulation of all doctrine.

But just to respond to the no man father on earth, by your logic I shouldn't be able to call my dad father which is used frequently in the Bible. The word father is not forbidden in of itself as is shown in Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."

Additionally, If you took the phrase in context you'd see that it is rather a hyperbolic critique of the pharisees and their practices.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Christ says it not because the term father is bad, but rather because he uses it as hyperbole since the pharisees liked it so much and used it as a term of power. Far different than any good Roman Catholic priest would do. Afterall, in Galatians 4:19 the spiritual children are referred to as sons, thus making him the father.
Have a good day. I think we both have better things to do now than debate Christianity on r9k
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>"the houris can be male and female both"
Because they were the actual genetic fathers of the Israelite tribes, thats why. The pope claims to be God on earth, and the church exalts him to that status, which is idolatry, just like praying to dead people and worshiping bones is. The only reason we "aren't getting anywhere" is because you still defend false beliefs even when proven wrong, countless times, by the very bible you claim to believe in.
Catholicism is Roman sun worship, and if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. Some people have eyes and do not see, some ears and do not hear. I pray the Holy Spirit opens your eyes so you don't get dragged to hell with your church.

Exodus 20:4 - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Mark 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
wew, you original lad
>muh invisible church
>keys to the what?
>Baptists predate everyone! (No historical evidence provided except a meme chart)
>bingind and looking? is that some kind of BDSM thing?
>under my own authority!
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The Holy Spirit reveals the truth
Lets get a source.
literally in the pic
Papists really are blind lol
>The pope claims to be God on earth
Wrong. He is the spiritual successor to Peter
>praying to dead people
Asking for their intercession
>we only have one mediator!
No Catholic has ever denied this.
>posts picture
>thinks it is a source
I mean go find the actual document and take a picture of that.
Or alternatively, find the approved translation on the Vatican website and post a link.
>The pope claims to be God on earth
Yet, another place in which you have gone wrong. Just since you respect an authority doesn't make him God lmao. He is simply the successor of Peter that thus makes him able to bind and lose that which is on earth and by extension of the divinely appointed Church, that which is in heaven. Another strawman in a list of many. Catholics don't think the Pope is God

and Good thing Catholicism does not break any of those Exodus verses. I am assuming you are trying to use them to disprove relics since that was what you were talking about before (you didn't specify)

With regards to Relics, such examples include when a woman was cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ's cloak (Matt. 9:20 to 22) and the sick who were healed when Peter's shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14 to 16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11 to 12).

The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20 to 21)

Doesn't take very long to find that you are incorrect. It is easy for you to spew verses, but not to interpret them it so seems.
Dude, the bible clearly says that NOBODY BUT JESUS can intercede for you.
>no catholic has denied this
You literally JUST did in the sentence above
Nobody intercedes or mediates for you between God BUT JESUS ALONE.

Lord PLEASE open their eyes.
>Dude, the bible clearly says that NOBODY BUT JESUS can intercede for you.
Where does it say that? What is the context?
>Nobody intercedes or mediates for you between God BUT JESUS ALONE.
1)mediates and intercedes are two dofferent things.
2) Christ is the only intercessor between the Father and mankind, this does not mean that there can be no intercessor between Christ and mankind. He himself gave us intercessors in the form of the Apostles, who then passed this on with the laying of hands.
Your a pussy if you think god is real
Do you known what a "vicar" is?
They are ambassadors who speak in the name of a king. The Apostles were ambassadors speaking in the name of the King Jesus Christ. They passed this charism on to their descendents.
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The void will consume us all anon.
We love her.
Thoughts on the guys from BBC International on YouTube?

And yet Jesus told the apostles, "If you forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain anyone's sins they are retained" (John 20:22-23).

The Apostles couldn't forgive sins if they were unable to intercede. The Bible can't contradict itself.

Additionally, taken from https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/one-mediator-between-god-and-men

The fact that Jesus is our one mediator does not preclude him from communicating this power by way of participation. The Bible also declares: "But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, (Gr. - didaskolos) and you are all brethren." This text cannot be any clearer, yet James 3:1 and Ephesians 4:11 tell us we have many teachers (Gr. - didaskoloi) in the Church. The key is to understand that the many teachers and mediators in the body of Christ do not take away from Christ as the one teacher and mediator because they are, in a sense, Christ on this earth and they serve to establish his offices of teacher and mediator in him
I looked up your "source"
It is a Protestant magazine.
They oublushed this and then the Pope released the transcript of his speech. His actual words?
>The Pope is the earthly representative of Christ.
So basically you just published a century old disproven lie.
Tell me, what could man ever do to make up for their sins? Only God's love could ever bridge that gap between life and death. Now tell me, what makes a man "more worthy" of receiving that gift, or bearing the ability to give that gift to others? Does God not love all of his children equally? Are the gates to a love more powerful than we can ever comprehend nothing more than a man with a title? Salvation comes directly from God's grace, the difference is not some earthly ritual given by earthly men. It is hubris to believe that mere men, no matter the position in the church, are worthy enough to dole out the gift of God, which we only receive in our unworthiness through his grace, directly from him.

Father God I come before you with a saddened heart that these brothers, when confronted with the truth of Your word still refuse to believe it, and follow after the traditions of men, which You commanded us not to do. Have mercy on them, Lord, guide them and let them see the systematic deception they've been put under. You are One, you are Holy, You are the Alpha and the Omega and there is none beside You. Wake them, Lord, get them out from under the devil's foot, that they be deceived no more, and their souls be not damned to eternal suffering. Please Lord, I beg of You, because I love them just as I love all brethren, in Jesus' name, Amen.

2 Thessalonians 2
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

May Jesus bless you.
>>The Pope is the earthly representative of Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Jesus Christ alone suffered and died for us, a gift we are unworthy of recieving. However, Jesus also explicitly founded a Church and explicitly told his Apostles that they could bind and loose and that Peter would posses the keys to the kingdom. This authority, granted to them by Jesus Christ himself, is carried on through the Catholic Church. Christ himself established rituals, baptism, communion, confession, confirmation, Holy Orders and he blessed others marriage through the wedding at Canna, anointing the dying, etc.

I don't need to read some random guys nothing blog to understand Catholic doctrine and it's biblical support. The catechism already does that.

And so here we see the nondenominational Christian who has been refuted every argument he posed, put up strawmans against every Catholic argument, and ignored that which was argued against him that is now forced to concede with a sanctimonious prayer.

It would do you some good to get out of your echo chamber man. I mean that with love. You or some other protestant literally posted a fake anti-Catholic image and clearly do not understand Catholic doctrine. There is more to the Bible than just your own opinions on it.

The Pope is not called god, not worshiped as God, nor shows himself to be God.

(sitting in the temple of god is clearly a metaphor since everyone in church sits in his temple. Thus, sitting in his temple meaning taking his spot in worship is that which the Pope does not do)
>The catechism
Maybe a former catholic can show you why you're wrong


>been refuted
No, scripture refuted you, countless times, you just don't want to believe it because you have itching ears.
That verse is about the anti-Christ, who is one man (not an organization) and sits in the Temple of Jerusalem. St. Robert Bellarmine already proved this centuries ago.
Do you suggest Christ blasphemed when
He himself gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, gave his Apostles authority to bind and loose, and sent the Holy Spirit among them to be his earthly representatives?
Why would I listen to a heretic speak about anything?
>The Pope is not called god, not worshiped as God, nor shows himself to be God.
Look at all these people no worshipping the pope

>idolator calling anyone a heretic

Ah yes, the former Catholic, he has the moral authority to show me the way. Posting random links to clearly nonacademic sites with no credibility whatsoever is not an argument.

You have failed countless times to respond to my arguments and replied with strawmans dude. After my statement on luther with the bible you went silent, after the pope you went silent, after relics you went silent.
>St. Robert Bellarmine
I don't follow what people say, I follow what the bible, the word of God says. The bible says not to do alot of things that the Catholic church does regularly. So if you can't see that you cannot call yourself "Christian" while following unbiblical teachings then I have nothing to say to you.

the term used in the Bible for worship is sebasma which is a religious worship. Literally no one in the picture is religiously worshiping the pope. Liking someone enough to take a picture is not worshiping them.
>You have failed countless times to respond to my arguments
I showed you scripture proving you wrong. You have no rebuttal, as anything outside of scripture is not authoritative. The fact that you think otherwise proves that Catholicism is not Christianity.
Idolatry is idolatry, no matter what colored robe or hat it wears

Why would I listen to a site without any intellectual credibility that looks like it was made in the Mesozoic era? If I want heresy I can at least get it from someone that represents the heretics in a relatively clearly defined somewhat intellectual way rather than just using scare tactics.

yeah I agree. And that isn't idolatry. Again you didn't refute my point.

I provided biblical sources, but you failed to respond. Take a look at the relics passages or that on idolatry.
Please tell me this is bait holy shit the veryfact that they care is why u should care
That isn't actually what christians believe though
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Hi everyone! I was gone much longer than I anticipated, between a bike ride and a fairly involved dinner I decided to make. I'd love to get to a few questions I left too early to answer!

>What is the Church IRL
I tried to lay it out as best I could, the Church is the faithful getting together and studying/growing in their faith.
>why are some wrong and others right
The Catholics, I believe, are absolutely wrong because of the numerous contradictions against the Scripture they seem to claim as true. For example, I do not see any Red Letter commands to confess sins to another mortal, and especially not that some mortal men are somehow more 'holy' than others (the Catholics have a heavy emphasis on greater literal authority and even holy powers granted to clergy members). Most offensive of Catholics, aside from the numerous things the Pope just makes up and says are true (the overwhelming majority of the Catholic Church does not read the Bible regularly, according to most surveys), is that forgiveness of sins hinges heavily upon confessing to a mortal priest, who will then grant forgiveness as if the Lord Christ had not already granted all forgiveness with His sacrifice.
I do not believe independent Baptist churches to be the 'one true' church, however I believe them to be very wholesome and godly for the most part and they follow what I believe in my heart very closely - especially smaller rural ones.
>free will
This may be a game of redefining words. Free will CAN exist WHILE the Lord knows all future events. I know, for instance, that my neighbor walked his dog at 6:28pm last night. That doesn't mean he did not choose to do so out of his own free will, and furthermore if I could go back in time my knowing that my neighbor WILL walk his dog at 6:28 would not make it any less a decision of free will. I don't believe philosophical discussions of this aspect of free will are productive theologically, however.
You are the first Christian I have found online that agrees with me on all of these major points of doctrine. Thank you for doing the Lord's work, anon.
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Again with the words, I should have chosen to say "may disclose the future" or something. What I said was, I agree, heretical.
>"Gospels are true"
>what is the basis
>why do you cann a part of the Scripture true and another - optional
As a Christian, I believe the Gospels to be the record of the time of Christ from the perspective of their respective apostles, in their original language. I believe their various translations may contain inaccuracies and especially lose many points in translation, which is why I believe a true deep study must study the texts in their original Greek.
I call other parts, as I said, "supplemental," because I do not believe them necessary to salvation through the Lord Christ, and I believe many of them to be written by men of great faith but not necessarily divinely inspired. The apostle Paul's letters, for instance, are just that - letters from one mortal man to another. Having known the Lord Christ personally does not mean that every word he says was true - this feeds into my rejection of the Catholic Church, in that I do not see basis in the Scriptures for any human line of succession continuing from the Apostle Peter possessing divine power, and the Catholic Church was founded several hundred years after Peter's death anyway which would seem to render the whole argument even stranger.

I agree, the KJV is generally my first go-to translation. I also believe, however, that any translation is just that - a translation, and things always get lost. I don't believe any versions but the original to be true, and I also know that even the English language has changed slightly in usage of many words since the KJV was written.
I agree with you in your anti-Catholic sentiment. Though I am not sure if faithful Catholics receive salvation through Christ, I absolutely believe the leadership to be heretics.

Thanks for your input! I didn't know several of those things about the KJV Bible!
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>Satan trips
Can't make this up, lads.

>>muh invisible church
Giving mankind the Church is just that; giving unto men the gift of a body of faithful, of equals under God, free in Salvation upon acceptance of His blood without the intervention of a priest class.
Symbolic, of course, but these were given not to the Catholic Church (which again didn't exist until hundreds of years later) but to the Apostle Peter without clear mention of succession. Even had succession been a part of the keys granted to Peter, remember that the Old Testament is full of stories of faithful men granted many earthly authorities and holy status that eventually fell to idolatry and temptation either generations or even mere decades after their rise to greatness through the Lord.
>Baptists predate everyone!
If I sounded like I was saying that the modern Baptist church was anything but, then I misspoke. I merely meant to say that I believe it to be carrying on the same tradition as the very first Christians, in that they follow the Lord Christ faithfully and without inserting any commands of mortal men into His instructions.

It sounds like I've just been choosing my words poorly, because from your criticisms it sounds like we probably agree on many of the issues you bring up.
>a Church that is not actually a Church but just a statement.
Come on...
>I give you the keys was a symbol
For what? What was binding and loosing then?
>Peter doesn't have successors
So the Church dies after one generation? Some church...
>I carry on the same traditions as the earliest Christians
Except confession, communion, Apostolic authority, etc.
>also I practice 4chan inspired numerology
>but I'm totes a Christian
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Never heard of it. If you're talking about British Broadcasting Corporation: International, then I don't have any particular fondness for the BBC over any other bland corporate news source.
If they have any series on the Bible or Christianity, I have absolutely no respect for corporate or mass-media views on Christianity or faith and believe that they are right only by coincidence. One might as well look for divine inspiration in Walmart commercials.

Thanks for the encouragement, friend. I think there are many who agree with us, but in much of mainstream Christian culture there's an idea of not really criticizing other churches but just preaching your own doctrine instead. Especially on 4chan, there are so many Catholics that often people will choose not to criticize Catholicism in a Christian thread just to keep it all together. I believe that to be counterproductive, I know my faith has been greatly developed and improved through criticism from people.
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>a Church that is not actually a Church
The Church is absolutely a physical, real-world congregation. It's not a single item, not any particular brick-and-mortar building or a monument. Giving us the Church is similar to giving us the holy union of man and woman in marriage; it's not a physical gift but merely a social construct given holy status through faith. Just like marriage, also, one that is not true in its faith is not a true holy Church.
>keys are symbolic
>For what?
Surely you aren't saying He gave Peter a physical set of keys? I also do not see any Scriptural basis for Peter's authorities being passed on to a successor, most certainly not any successor chosen by a council of mortal men. If the Pope was indeed chosen by the Lord, why would He need a council to meet and have great discussion over it?
>Except confession, communion, Apostolic authority, etc.
Confession is to the Lord, and not to a mortal man. What authority is a mortal man given, to forgive another's sins? Forgiveness is only through the Christ, who took all sins upon his own blameless shoulders. Confession to a priest to achieve forgiveness is a carryover from the Jews, ended by Christ, carried on by the heathen Catholics.
Communion is a symbol, nowhere does the Christ command us to carry on the specific ritual of the last supper. It's done for us, in remembrance, just like Christmas celebrations.
Apostolic authority is, outside those specifically granted to specific Apostles by the Lord Christ such as most famously the powers granted Peter (not his moral-chosen successors), a Catholic myth. The Letters of the Apostles are nothing more than letters from men to fellow men.
Hey Christianon, sorry if this isnt in your scope of.... things.
I've been dealing with some pretty strong tinnitus and bad depression for the last few months... last year really. Like suicidal-tier tinnitus even as I spent time trying to get other people to believe and read the bible with them.
I've asked our pastor to pray for me and many of my friends. But getting through each day is rough. There's hardly a break from this. I must wonder... why? It really doesn't make sense. I struggle to even sit down and be still in his presence because the noise and sadness drives me crazy. How can I stay close to Him in these troubling times?
*suicidal-tier depression sorry
Is that a Christian Tomoko?
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>strong tinnitus and bad depression
You've been given many trials in life. It's often hard for me, as well, to comprehend why the Lord gives us such trials for no visible reason. It took a long time for me to accept my diabetes, my various chronic pain conditions, and the resulting deep depression and suicidal urges (thankfully I've won against the urges and no longer feel suicidal, even when depressed).
I am not a theologian and it's going to be difficult for me to give true, Scripture-based responses to this. But personally, I believe the Lord has given us trials and hardships to better understand happiness and joy. Through my pain and the losses I have suffered in life, I understand and appreciate wonderful things. I feel happiness on levels that, before losing my health, I didn't even realize existed. Before constant suffering my life was bland, no matter how many luxuries I had.
>How can I stay close to Him
I'm happy that you've talked to your pastor about this. I personally recommend talking to church leaders as much as possible if you feel troubled in faith, as well as reading the Bible extensively on your own if you don't already. The greatest thing that's helped me is understanding and learning more about how the world and my own life are His, and that He has a plan and a love for me whether or not I can feel either at the moment. Through Christ alone, I understand that my life and all of the pain in it has a greater and more glorious purpose.
I do not enjoy pain and depression as I experience them, but I understand that I suffer for the glory of Christ and to sculpt myself into a greater follower of Him. I know I'm being vague and I apologize, but when you ask how to stay close in troubling times I would answer that in the darkest times I find it easiest to stay close to Him because I know that I exist and even suffer for His glory.

Maybe! I'd never really thought about it but I see it now.

History is best told in stories through historical facts and creative fictions, in my opinion. For me a bible is as boring as a spread sheet. Watching movies and reading novels for history lessons is a lot more entertaining. I can not see a worth for the moral lessons in those old books past being 10 years old.

You wrote that you returned to the church after a lonely trip down the atheist road. Key word being lonely. I know what that is like and have been for most of my life but i am not returning to being kept at 10 in my adult life as that is what i think of when giving up on self actualization and self determinations building upon history.

I would keep the point of not running amuck and ruining society but i don't think that should include being in a herd.
No, thank you, you've given me another lead. I need to reconnect with the elders in my life. And the Lord.
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>i am not returning to being kept at 10 in my adult life
I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way, anon! I once felt the same way too, I did not realize as a teenager that there was more to religion than just singing a few songs and learning that some carpenter's son 2000 years ago decided to forgive me.

Coming back to the church as an adult, after going through the crucible of atheism and far left politics, I learned many things I never truly understood when I was younger. Maybe they just didn't really talk about it, maybe I was just too busy thinking about girls and video games to listen, who knows. But there's so much more to Christianity than believing the pop-culture idea that "magic skyman doesn't want you to masturbate."
It seems your major criticism is simply not believing that it is true, and that's not unusual. I didn't either when I first started attending church again as an adult. However, I went with an open heart for the first time since I was 13, thinking that even if this sky-man wasn't real at least I could listen to some people talk and maybe learn a few things.
So many things in this world that make little sense and seem unbelievable, from politics to philosophy to history, make perfect sense when looked at through a biblical perspective with an open heart to the Lord. It's also important to realize that although I do not believe any living man knows the Lord's nature, the Bible makes it clear I believe that it is nowhere near as simple as that "skyman who doesn't like porn" meme.
On the topic of the Bible, as I've mentioned earlier, I think it's important to read everything before the Gospels mostly out of interest and all of the Letters of the Apostles as supplementary as they are writings of mortal men who do not even claim to be divinely inspired past the faith in their own hearts. The direct teachings of Christ are hands-down the most important and relevant part.
Don't try to pray away bad thoughts, pray instead for the strength to face them and deal with them.
Thank you for being a beacon of light in the cyber-sewer anon.
Can someone answer these for me? How does God (or Jesus) treat people who are prostitutes, gay, murderers etc? Because from what I've heard the only cardinal sins are suicide and blasphemy. Also what happens if someone is on the fence (or just plain doesn't believe) their entire life and they die and sees God/Jesus, are they given a chance to repent/accept god or are they immediately denied because they didn't believe on Earth?
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>How does God (or Jesus) treat people who are prostitutes, gay, murderers etc?
Those who truly accept His sacrifice are forgiven. However, it's an important note that as a necessary result of truly accepting His sacrifice, while one does not magically become sinless one will absolutely make effort to leave the life of sin.
This is not a magic one-step process in most cases. Turning a life around that has fallen that far into sin and temptation may take a long time, no matter how hard the sinner works and prays. It may also take five minutes, by the grace of God, but it will probably take much longer. The church is full of stories of faithful who had horrible, sinful lives who one day asked forgiveness and completely turned around, leaving overnight their sinful lifestyles and seeking the Lord. It's also full of people who took years to unlearn all the sinful and self-harmful practices they had spent their lifetime learning.
>one the fence and then they die
I don't know the answer to that. I do know that the Church is commanded to go and spread the word of the Lord's forgiveness in this world. I also know that the Lord said through parable that the Samaritan, faithless though he may have been, was the true neighbor to the Jew through good works and brotherhood which implies that it's very possible He does allow this.
My personal hypothesis also allows for this, that perhaps the Lord allows all of us to accept forgiveness at death but knows that if we accept it in life, our lives will be better for it. We also know that forgiveness is through faith, however, and the Lord Christ reminds us time and again that if we need absolute proof to accept His salvation on Earth that we are in a sad state. I also believe, however, that our relationship with Him is altered in the afterlife, and that as we live in glory with Him forever it's certainly implied that in eternity with Him we have proof.
Thank you~ I had been wanting a proper answer to this for ages.
>tfw trying to convert to catholicism but too shy to actually go to church
I'm learning and following Jesus teachings but I can't go to the church because I'm still a sperg, help me bros
Catholicism is actually Christianity + paganism, therefore satanic. Look at the sources in this very thread. Just pick up a bible and read it. You will be saved
I don't go to Church anymore because the other parishioners know about my suicide attempt.
Is that really a good reason to stop going anon? What if they tried it, or a family member did? There is no shame in it, its a lesson for you.
I can't stand it when they look at me or come up to me and say it looks like I'm doing better. They don't know who I am outside of what they heard through others. I don't want to relive it all every Sunday.
Yeah now THAT would be tough. I'm not sure if they are judging you. Perhaps they are of good intentions, or it may just be morbid curiosity. Either way, I don't think that should be something to get between you and God.
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yorokobe, shounen.
your dream will come true.

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