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I came home early after a bad day in lab and started reading this book Chemistry today, and about 20 pages in she mentions a lab in Boston where there's a PI that's not allowed to take grad students because so many off them an heroed. Anyone know what lab she's talking about? I know EJ Corey had at least 3 since 1998 but I can't find a good scoreboard.
Also if shit like that happens, why is it okay for PIs to still treat their students like shit?
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>>9860598
>why is it okay for PIs to still treat their students like shit?

Because college is an academic hazing period to see if you are smart enough to be in the club.
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>>9860598
>I know EJ Corey had at least 3 since 1998
It was EJ Corey she was talking about, I realized after I finished reading about the suicide note
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>>9860602
it has all the makings of an abusive relationship with the extreme being a student's absolute submission to an advisor otherwise they will never graduate and the advisor can ruin their lives

Most phd students just want the piece of paper and some are willing to accept short term abuse to get it

the 'dreaming scientist' phd student who works to discover something new or push the boundaries of science is slowly disappearing now (at least in the us) its like orcs working/being sacrificed for Sauron (sauroman is the postdoc lel)

its like a huge machine, and a game of odds, out of every 1000 phd, one may be of some worth, and all will work their balls off to get published for their advisor or else
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>>9860928
random person but yep, nailed it. i realized the PI is the most important factor in determining one's happiness and willingness to go to work more than the actual work the lab does, and picked accordingly. So far it has been a good move.
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how r u holding up bros?
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>>9861146
I punched a hole in my wall because my advisor said I can't write a paper because my first fucking draft wasn't good enough.
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>>9861179
keep at it bro, don't give up
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>>9860656
The comments in this article have a pretty eye-opening discussion of it.

>consider also [Corey's] behavior around the issue of publishing Jason Altom’s work. He wrote the paper posthumously with Jason as last author. When the paper was circulated to the group (as is practice in that group), Jason’s former roommate (the one who found him who is not, by the way, Brian Stolz) noted that Jason should be the first non-EJ author. EJ responded by calling this student into his office and berating him. EJ then called in two other students; they offered the same opinion and were berated as well, and then EJ lied to others in the group and said they had supported him. The following people requested that EJ change the ordering of authors on this one paper out of his gazillions, not only out of respect to Jason but to reflect accurately the relative conributions of those involved: his department chair, one of the deans of the graduate school, Jason’s parents (through the chair). EJ refused. He finally agreed, only after much pressure, to add a footnote dedicating the paper to Jason. How do you think Jason’s parents felt about this? And why was it so important to EJ to deny them this one tiny piece of consolation?

Fraud accusations aside, if even half of what's written about this guy is true, he's a fucking evil cunt.
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>>9861245
Forgot link:

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2006/04/16/dont_know_dont_care
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>>9861245
damn
the game is strong with that fag
hope he gets his
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>>9861245
In the book in OP, the author says this guy would ask grad students what they'd been working on, and if what they listed didn't add up to 14 hours a day - not including bathroom breaks or eating - he would give them more work. I would've fucking gouged the guy's eyes out.
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i'm becoming a prof in a month, how do i not become an asshole advisor lads?
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>>9861298
It really shouldn't be that hard. Just act like you've fucking been there man. Don't actively demoralize your students
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>>9861316
>It really shouldn't be that hard
I realize in retrospect that I sound like my advisor with this sentence.
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>>9861441
the more i think about it, the more i realize how easy it is to slip, its an institutional thing

have to be on your toes to avoid being abusive without realizing
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>>9861441
>>9861686
>It really shouldn't be that hard
it shouldn't desu
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Europoor here doing a research masters. One paper published, 3 conferences attended (2 speaking one poster). May have a journal before I finish though I might just put it in my thesis. Have had a few job offers from said conferences.

Still on the fence about PhD. Institute has offered me a full ride but I'm still on the fence. If I roll my work into a PhD how much more do I need? My main gripe is that it would take 4 years. If I roll my Msc work into it how much can I shorten it? I know I have to teach and do modules, but can I realistically shrink it to 2-3 years? I'm afraid I'll also suffer burnout at that point.

Meanwhile I also have some decent offers on the table that are 5 times what I'd earn while doing my PhD per year. Not even sure if I prefer industry or academia since I have no industry experience really.

Gib advice, post stories about your own journey plz.
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>>9862090
I though European PhDs were only 2-3 years if you do it after a master's.
Full ride is status quo, they're not doing you any favors, it's not an advantage.
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>>9862090
where in Europe
in the Netherlands and Germany a PhD seems like a good life (if you're good)
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no fuck off generals are shit
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>>9862277
hide the thread instead of getting mad at people having a discussion brainlet
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Anyone hear about grad student unions?
Is it useful? People have been passing flyers about it at my Uni
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does it really matter where you do your undergrad degree? like if I had a slightly higher gpa and qualifications at a state school compared to someone at a better ranked school, would I be accepted over them in most cases?
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>>9862323
It depends on the department you work for. My department in STEM gave us decent yearly raises. The humanities departments weren't getting raises, so they wanted to unionize and the result is my department doesn't get raises anymore because the graduate school bargains as a whole now.
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Defended my diss yesterday. passed. lack of sleep and too much caffeine and while answering a question during the public part and said 'released a shi-.. sorry. a high quantitty of .."
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>>9862334
where you did your undergrad doesn't matter, unless you went to MIT or Harvard or some brand name school, then it matters positively.

What you do during your undergrad matters more desu, grades, research, interesting activities, connections, internships etc.
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>>9862341
doesn't matter as long as you passed
congrats ;)
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>>9862225
Ah a typical research masters lasts 2 years but mine is only taking 1 because I could take some work from my final year project.

I know a full ride is the status quo.

>>9862267
Potato land. Life is pretty easy right now alright, but a PhD will be tougher and a job would be too. I feel if I did a PhD the expectation is that you'll stay in academia. Also shite pay.
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>>9862352
thanks man. Still feel dead. Got a post-doc lined in the UK, so spending now till then getting ready. is this what 'making it' feels like?
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>>9862384
my recommendation, take a few weeks off, travel somewhere
will really help avoid post-defense depression
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>>9862383
what's your field? are you willing to leave ireland after you're done, to maybe the middle east?
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>>9861281
Why are smart kids so dumb?

Dont work stupid hours. You're not actually more productive. It's dangerous to your life and those around you.

>your surgeon works a 14 hour shift regularly, disregarding long operations.

Fucking christ.

Do you know the cable company takes more care with a fiber optic cable and their technicians than your instructors take with human patients and you?
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>>9862441
CompSci. I am willing to move country, though the middle east wasn't on my radar.
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>>9862474
universities in the middle east, particularly in oil countries, tend to recruit a lot of UK grads to work various academic jobs
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>>9862334
It doesn't matter if you aren't going to somewhere very prestigious like MIT or Berkeley.

I went to a kind of crappy school and it actually had a lot of benefits for me. My GPA is sky-high without really trying and I was constantly getting offered unsolicited opportunities (research assistantships, unposted TA positions where I made thousands of dollars editing documents for an hour a week, sending my name out to employers as recommendations) from professors because I was the best student there by a mile just by not being awful.
I wouldn't have got so much of that at a middle of the road school.
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>>9862501
Same here, went to a shitty christian college that just offered me a full ride, was constantly getting high 90s on everything, but then again i was the only non-premed biochem major, no one actually cared about theory, just GPA. Still really funny seeing those kids scramble on tests while i did better than most because of pure interest. Opportunities as well just came to me, upper level professors quickly saw my interest and just offered me shit, while we laughed at the pre-med drones
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>>9862432
Have so many corrections to make, due date in two weeks. Spending weekend with entire family, so depression will be postponed due to hyper amounts of stress and shit.
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>>9862501
>>9862508
Easier to be a big fish in a small pond. But I agree, for undergrad, having a broad talented resume and an REU will help. Grad school depends more on the PI instead of the school.
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>>9860602
>hazing period to see if you are smart enough to be in the club.
This is what's dumb about hazing though, by going through the process you are inherently down to the groveling standards of pathetic-ness, you can't just "become cool" after that, you are always weak shit from then on. Unless the hazed members are just a red herring for the true, unhazed elite, the "club" cannot be described as being made of "cool people", it can, however, be described accurately as a club of losers
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>>9862911
> hazing club

nothing worse than an old man taunting you with your future, when you can literally punch his face in
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask about this (if it isn't please someone point me in the right direction), but:

Does anyone know where I can find the book Feedback Control Systems by Charles L. Phillips and Royce Harbor?
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>>9863010
try scihub or gen rus
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>>9863042
Thanks, but no luck.
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>>9863010
>>9863064

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/feedback-control-systems_charles-l-phillips_royce-d-harbor/718320/#isbn=0133716910&idiq=6375551

Thriftbooks is usually a decent site to get really cheap textbooks. I got copies of my undergrad chem textbooks for ridiculously cheap, they were in decent condition as well.
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>>9863089
Nice! I didn't knew about that page, thanks.
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any other book recommendations like OP's
was a good read
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I have a 3.4 GPA total, a 3.6 GPA in applied math (though I also satisfy the pure math concentration), I'm a rising junior.
Classes:
Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, Advanced Calc
Linear Algebra I, Applied Linear Algebra
Scientific Computing (num analysis)
undergrad complex, abstract algebra I, discrete structures

Physics I, II, III with labs

I'm going to take a "break semester" to focus on my mental health and girls with only a high level (albeit undergrad) combinatorics class and statistics, while cleaning up all my gen eds. What classes should I take to be competitive in the spring?
I was thinking analysis and algebra II, which would allow me to take graduate algebra and analysis classes starting senior year.
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>>9864937
also
>start reading nonlinear dynamics and chaos over summer out of curiosity
>learn about qualitative analysis of nonlinear differential equations using phase space in first chapter
>tonight open up qualifying exams for PhD's at my top 100 state uni
>its qualifying nonlinear diffy ques with phase space
can i make it?
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>>9864937
you need a break semester in undergrad?
don't bother applying
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>>9864979
serious responses only please
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>>9864937
where are you doing your undergrad.
I'm a rising math junior at Berkeley, also want to take analysis II and algebra II in the spring so I can take graduate analysis/topology or algebra in the fall of my senior year.

idk where you go to school but there's a bunch of random crap here to fill in like upper div ODE's, PDE's, set theory, mathematical logic, etc. for when you have gaps in your schedule.
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>>9864937
>mental health and girls
wtf do you think the summer is for
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>>9864996
I'm at Umass Amherst. Its the only place I applied to besides MIT. Its 20 minutes from my house and /comfy/.

I've pretty much taken everything that isn't financial math courses & statistics at this point so I really don't have many other choices other than grad courses. Sounds like you have more options. Honestly this combintorics course (which is strangley labeled as graduate but is open to undergrads...) is the last thing I could take besides analysis/algebra II/numerical analysis II
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>>9865000
Yeah but this was serious. A 3 year long bout of depression where i would wake up and just not move. I would be paralyzed. Everything was effort. Took the joy out of math completely. Now it is just coming back this summer, as I am studying on my own. I feel so grateful senpai you don't even know.

Also I'm a virgin so I'm trying to cut my multi-year permabulk and build actual social skills more. I'm coming from a serious hellhole you have to understand.
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>>9865009
>Also I'm a virgin
You don't say.
If you reacted to undergrad that way, you'll end up killing yourself in grad school.
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>>9865017
wasn't in reaction to school at all. School was the least of my problems.
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>>9865009
Don’t listen to the haters. Taking a break is fine. You aren’t on anyone else’s schedule. Enjoy your 20s because no amount of career success or money can buy them back.
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Berkeley fag here. I almost went to Amherst college or Williams actually (admitted to both). I took a whole roadtrip from NY, spent a night at a hotel in Amherst, and then the next night at Williamstown. Really beautiful and cozy area.
>>9865007
maybe look into upper division quantum mechanics or something? do you have an idea what you're interested in yet? what's your applied math concentration?
CS classes may be a meme, but they're somewhat interesting and have le employability. Something like data structures.
Also basing off of this: https://www.math.umass.edu/course-offerings , it seems like you have intro to ODE's offered in the fall?

>>9865009
Ok serious advice here focus on yourself before girls, otherwise the results will be extraordinary cringy. I've never been fat/ugly, but apparently losing weight helps with literally everything - not just cardiovascular health, but also your mood, motivation and daily drive. Don't think everyone here is a neckbeard and that you found your family, many of us are perfectly normal people who just come here to shitpost. I'm guessing you're somewhere around my age (20 years old), and yeah I slack off all the fucking time. But girls shouldn't be your goal right now, you need to seriously improve your fitness, and then give yourself time to adjust to a new found order and drive in life before you start trying to fuck girls and come off like a cringy mess. Yeah I'm a fucking normie, but I just don't want you to turn out like the millions of cringy neckbeards I see in my day to day life. Not gonna lie /sig/ over at /pol/ is pretty fucking cringy, but it's better than a whole lot of other stuff you might find if you start looking up pick-up artist street game. Improve yourself, make friends, particularly among girls, then the rest will come naturally. Don't go full Elliot rodger please.
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>>9861245
academia attracts pieces of shit that couldn't hack it in the industry due to their horrible personalities like flies to shit, so none of this is even remotely surprising.

the fact that the adviser insists on having first author is laughable, too.
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>>9865133
Yeah the whole redpill thing seriously sucked everything out of my life. I stopped focusing on things I actually liked and sperged out over psychology research and factor analysis of the g factor to support this redpill worldview. Seriously emotionally taxing.
>Ok serious advice here focus on yourself before girls, otherwise the results will be extraordinary cringy.
I've realized this.
>you need to seriously improve your fitness
Don't worry I'm nowhere near a physical neckbeard. I'm trying to get from 15% bf to 10% or lower. At the risk of humblebraging, I've had large numbers of girls tell me I'm very attractive in almost all social situations I've found myself in so far, they feel my biceps and stuff (they are usually drunk but whatev). Then I freeze up and fuck up everything. It actually makes for really good stories because of how comical and absurd my situation is. Its just torture honestly. Really this is all just evidence of how seriously fucked I am mentally. I have great friends and am the life of the party in a bunch of situations but around girls I just have issues and I don't know why. I think I could tell you at least 6 long STORIES with different girls trying to engage on a romantic/sexual level and me failing.

The fact that you cared enough to write a paragraph is making me tear up a bit right now Ima be honest.

>CS classes may be a meme, but they're somewhat interesting and have le employability.
I'm taking the intro CS course this upcoming semester. Its probably something I could test out of but I want that easy GPA boost.
>it seems like you have intro to ODE's offered in the fall?
lol forgot to mention I already took intro ODE's

>do you have an idea what you're interested in yet? what's your applied math concentration?
I'm pretty interested in nonlinear dynamics and chaos atm. Read the first 70 pages of one text on it this past week.
I have no research/job experience or professor relationships because of depression n shit.
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>>9864980
Not that anon, but that is a serious response
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>>9865009
you better sort out all your depression causing issues before you go anywhere near grad school
also make sure you are not prone into sinking into depression
otherwise you won't make it through grad school
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>>9860602
>>9860656
>>9860598

There was a good article about this in the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/29/magazine/lethal-chemistry-at-harvard.html
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>>9860598
some chemistry labs can be pretty stressful because you always have to be wondering whether you're being slowly poisoned every day. There are definitely safe labs out there, but a decent % of academic labs smell like death and flagrantly violate all standards of safety, and often PIs can pressure you into hideously sketchy projects. I was at a conference the other day where a guy spent 30 pages describing how his
PI had sidetracked him off of performing a methylation step in his original goal project of synthesizing some natural product and had got him to spend 3 years synthesizing TMS-diazomethane multiple times per day, resulting in a new methodology with marginally improved yields. Personally, I can't imagine trading 3 years of daily mortal stress for a PhD
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Has anyone used data science approaches to simplify their lab work? Stuff like machine learning for data analysis? I hear a lot about applications in biology and chemistry but on the other hand people say it's overrated and you waste your time trying to get it working. A lot of my work is repetitive data analysis that a program could probably do better but I don't know if it's worth dedicating the time to it.
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>>9865041
>>9865372
Consider your warnings heeded.
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I have a BS in Biochemistry, never took diff EQ or linear algebra. Any chance I get accepted to a MS program for ChemE/MechE?
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>>9865009
Literally me holy shit
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>>9860598
Reminder to report and ignore shitposting.
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>>9865266

You are never going to be happy, you are far too self-aware normal people are nothing like this.

It sounds like you are highly sensitive I wish someone had told me this when I was your age.

https://hsperson.com
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>>9864980
that was serious, if you need a break, and a whole semester at that, then you're not emotionally and probably mentally equipped to continue and do well

best that you hear it from anons in a basket weaving forum than from a professor
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>>9864937
>rising junior
>that schedule
pathetic




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