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Constitution Edition

Previous Thread >>52237351

A thread for discussing the Star Trek franchise and its various tabletop iterations.

Possible topics include Star Trek Adventures - the new rpg being produced by Modiphius - and WizKids’ Star Trek: Attack Wing miniatures game, as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and Star Trek in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures, Modiphius’ 2d20 RPG
-Official Modiphius Page
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
Playtest Materials (via Biff Tannen)
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/36m6c22co6y5m/Modiphius%20Star%20Trek%20Adventures
Reverse Engineered Character Creation.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g2ofDX0-7tgHojjk7sKcp7uVFSK3M52eVP45gKNJhgY/edit?usp=sharing

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

WizKids’ Star Trek: Attack Wing Miniatures Game
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/


Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html


/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP
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>>52277331
First for 'sploding stuff.
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>>52277545
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>>52277566
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>>52277615
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>>52277497
Cardassian Naval doctrine clearly doesn't involve any sort of maneuvering.
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>>52277663
Or firing, for that matter.
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>>52277663
>>52277813

The High Command is really fond of their moral victories.
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>>52277663
Everybody knows that Federation vision is based on movement.
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>>52277813
Nah their doctrine is everyone fires at the same time, so what we're seeing here is a momentary pause whilst everyone charges back up.

They like to keep it nice and organised like that.
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Players of Star Trek RPGs whatever they may be: What new uses have YOU invented for the deflector dish?
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>>52278905
Our GM wanted to teach us a lesson, so when we tried to disable a cargo ship with a tachyon beam we accidentally created a subspace tear. Turns out the entire deflector array had magically become misaligned.

So naturally we kept it as it was and went around destroying klingon cruisers by letting subspace devour them. We eventually went full pirate and decided to demandtribute from all worlds that we passed.

The lesson is, you can take the players out of Rogue Trader but you can't take the rogue trader out of the players.
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>>52279105
>The lesson is, you can take the players out of Rogue Trader but you can't take the rogue trader out of the players.

I wonder what faction in Star Trek would be best for a legit Rogue Trader-esque experience. My gut instinct is to say Ferengi but I feel like the relentless quest for profit is only half the package.
>>
>>52279137
The extensive Mudd family/clan
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>>52279137
A Romulan Senator's personal retinue and his Merchant Cutter.
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>>52279137
Federation free trader.
>be human
>comfy life transporting goods inside the federation
>Starfleet doesn't scan you because you're human and humans that aren't admirals/gunning for admiral aren't naughty :^)
>buy weapons from Ferengi for your ship/crew
>go outside Federation borders with your new dakka
>blow up faggets
>get rekt by faggets
>cry to Starfleet when rekt so they take out your enemies
>i dindu nuffin i swears
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>>52279137
>Relentless quest for profit
Remember Daimon Bok? The guy who must have spent a considerable amount of time, money and effort to recover the Stargazer, clean it up, and set an elaborate trap so he could take revenge on Picard for killing his son?
Tell me that isn't a Rogue Trader revenge plot. Why track down and shoot your enemy when you can drive him insane and make him attack his own crew?
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>>52279137
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>>52279507
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>>52279434
That is a pretty good revenge plot. I suppose the thing is that in addition to grandiose schemes and profiteering, Rogue Traders are also high-ranking government officials with particularly enormous powers once outside of their home realm. Which I suppose could work for Ferengi too, but I don't think that fits your average Daimon.
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>>52271862
>>52271966
>>52272397
>>371203650
>>computer, simulate Counselor Troi and increase her bowel elasticity by 300%
>>insert 4 Romulan death lobsters into her anus
>>safety protocols off
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>>52278905
Torpedo Tennis
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>>52279715
Orions, then? They seem like the right type for the occasional psychopathic romp through a star system.
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>>52279527
>>52279507
this guy makes it sound like the federation doesnt give a crap about keeping law and order within its space
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>>52280883
Ooh, that's an idea.
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>>52279715
>>52280883
Klingons. Go on raiding parties. Fuck shit up. Bring back the spoils for the glory of the Empire. Semi-autonomous nature of the House system means hey can operate with impunity as long as they don't bring dishonor to their House, or more accurately, as long as nobody knows about it. Blood feuds and vendettas are all over the place and not only tolerated, but encouraged. And Klingons for all their talk about honor have been know to deal with sneakiness and treachery plenty of times.

Sure Klingons aren't supposed to fight for "profit" but they can definitely fight for "honor" while enjoying the spoils of war.
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>>52279430
Unless you're supplying the Maquis. In which case they'll imprison you in New Zealand for a few years.
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>>52278413
Would there be any tactical merit to volley fire over a continuous stream?
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>>52281471
Well you're more likely to beat down a target's shields and cause hull damage. They might move and change shield facing or get time to get the shield back up otherwise. But you risk not doing any damage due to missing/evasion/whatever. It's an all-or-nothing approach rather than staggering out opportunities.
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>>52281471
I suppose if you want to target one ship at a time, that one ship would be hard-pressed to resist that much firepower all at once.
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why did rodenberry hate the jews so much
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>>52282083
They ran Hollywood and kept canceling his shows.
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>>52282125
Is that why the Ferengi were originally supposed to be the TNG big bads?
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Something that has bothered me for awhile, but who was Odo's contact in "Improbable Cause"?
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>>52282396
Some high ranking officer in either the Obsidian Order or Central Command. My personal theory is Gul Madred.
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>>52282396
>>52282711
The informant was Ruskin's only Cardassian role, so it wasn't anyone previously seen. Not even soft canon says who it is. A possibility is Gul Russol, who was one of Odo's contacts, who was never seen on screen.
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>>52282835
This makes the most sense. I can live with that.
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>>52281279
That's only if you're an admiral's son. Otherwise they just hand you over to the spoons and wish you luck.
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Is it true that Voyager had a race of aliens so stupid that they managed to blow themselves up trying to figure out a replicator?
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>>52277956
Is there anything in the world who's vision is actually based on movement?
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>>52284099
The Kazon. Although it didn't wipe all of them out.
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>>52284623
Fair, but that's still absolutely amazing.
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>>52284623
>Kazon

How were Space Somalia supposed to be a threat?

Voyager, if captained by somebody sane, could have maintained a steady speed till out of their territory.
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>>52286086
>Space Somalia

Oh man that gives me ideas.
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>>52286086
Most of their tech was stolen from the Traje. So they could use weapons just fine, but actually learning about new tech was fairly hit and miss.
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>>52283659
Or you're fugging the Captain responsible for patroling the border.
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>>52282396
Not everything needs an explanation or would benefit from one.

It's like Q freaking the fuck out first time he sees Guinan.
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>>52286374
TNG did that. It's one of the Season 1 episodes that the writers and actors disavow
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>>52287911
Which episode was that?
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>>52287969
S1E4 - "Code of Honor"

AKA "The one with the Ooga-Booga race that look and dress like Africans"
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>>52288026
Seriously?

That one wasn't that bad. Don't get me wrong, it was fairly shit, but it wasn't as bad as a lot of others.

And I wouldn't have called them Ooga-Booga just because all the ones we saw were black and the fashion of the capital was sort of North African in technicolour tinfoil.

They had independently developed teleporter technology, were presumably a warp capable people, had developed at least one medical breakthrough that the UFP hadn't and seemed to be bound in a complex and not entirely unequalitarian set of laws to which they seemed to adhere to faithfully.

If we are going for shit spisodes that we need to for get about then Warp 10 Lizards, Wesley gets death row for breaking a window, O'Brian kills the bogeyman by shouting a fairy tale at it, psychic apple juice, Worf does pain sticks and Riker gets wizard powers all rank way, way higher on the scale of shit.
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>>52288176
I know they definitely de-canonised "Threshold". They even have Paris state that no one has ever breached the warp 10 barrier in a later episode.
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>>52288176
>And I wouldn't have called them Ooga-Booga just because all the ones we saw were black and the fashion of the capital was sort of North African in technicolour tinfoil.

Trust me - it's a noble thing, you trying to make excuses for the episode, and I do believe that you're doing so with good intentions, i.e., you don't want to believe that the intention was "Ooga-Booga". But it absolutely was, or at least it ended up that way.

The writer for the episode, Kathryn Powers, originally intended the Ligonians to be more reptilian. For budget reasons that wasn't possible, so they were humans. But the director, Russ Mayberry, decided to make them all black, for reasons lost to time and tide (but for which I cannot even possibly imagine a good justification). It's noteworthy that Gene Roddenberry fired Mayberry over this episode. And the entire remaining cast and crew of TNG are just utterly embarrassed by the episode.

Kathryn Powers wrote the Stargate: SG-1 episode "Emancipation", too, which was basically this episode but replacing black folk with East Asian folk (and is equally panned and hated). I guess she just has a thing for white women being kidnapped by non-whites.
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>>52288258
No, turns out that's not true...which is sad.
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>>52288415
I wasn't trying to "make excuses" for the episode. The episode was as shit as the rest of Season 1, props were shit, painted palace and backdrop was shit, costumes were criminally early 70s and therefore shit, writing was lazy and shit. I just didn't think it was Ooga-Booga.

I was fucking wrong, obviously.

Making excuses implies that the particular fault is recognized.
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>>52277331
Relatively new to /stg/. What's up with these funky op pics. I've noticed them on /tg/ for a fair while now and I like them. Is there an anon that does these or are they part of some other thing?
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>>52288918
There is an anon who takes screenshots from star trek online (or accepts screenshots taken by others) and then photoshops them or something to make them look like that.
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>>52288964
Cool. Does he do requests? I'm not really into ST online and I don't really want to sink time and money into it to get screenshots. But if he had shots of the Galaxy class (I'm nearly certain I've seen one of those), the Prometheus or the Voyager-Daedalus I'd be delighted.
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>>52289074
Those three happen to be freebie ships you get while leveling (well in case of galaxy and Voyager, you gotta choose either one or the defiant. The following tier you get your last freebie ship which is either a sovereign, a luna class, a OC star cruiser, OC escort, OC sci ship or the Prometheus class ship).

As for what he does, well, he does both pics he has taken and those other people have taken of their own ships, if he has a pic of galaxy or any other stuff, then you just gotta hang around and hope he comes around.
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>>52289074
Sorry, I mean the Dauntless from Voyager. The mock up alien ship.
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>>52289074
Well here's a Galaxy class
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So how would the Star Trek Universe deal with threats from other franchises? Such as The Replicators from Stargate.
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>>52291147
Phaser set on wide area? I mean a phaser can disintegrate material it's going to do way more than a P90
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>>52289074
Here's the only edit of a Prometheus that I have, I think.
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>>52289137
I actually don't have any of the Dauntless, it's on my to-do list, along with the Defiant and Luna.
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>>52291176
this
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>>52291176
Aren't Replicators immune to energy weapons? That's why the Asgard needed the Human's help in the first place.
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>>52291147
inverted tachyon-pulse through the deflector array.
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>>52291147
Shoot it with SCIENCE!
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>>52291255
I would think it depends on the energy weapon. Do Asgard weapons completely destroy people leaving no trace (Wrath of Khan)?
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>>52288964
>then photoshops them or something to make them look like that
To make them look like what, shit?
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>>52291324
I don't think we ever see Asgard hand weapons only ship weapons. Though there was a off-shoot that used hand weapons but they were always on stun.
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>>52291324
There is a Jaffa weapon that does that and they didn't have any better luck against the Replicators which was being totally BTFO by them. Unless the Feds figure out how to go back to slug thrower they are kind of fucked.
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>>52291806
They do have that rifle.
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>>52291324
They seem to absorb every type of energy weapon used against them. Given that Goa'uld capital weaponry is stated to be in the megaton range and the asgard supposedly surpass them, we can assume that most conventional beam weapons are useless agains them.

They seems to get taken out by some sort of disruption beam. So that falls under the jurisdiction of Sciencey bullshit that spock pulls out of his ass at the last second.
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>>52291806
If we're talking about ships then Starfleet can just use torpedoes all day everyday. If we're taking about on foot then they can dust off those TR-116s.
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>>52291858
>The Enterprise's only hope is Worf running around swinging his Batleth at them
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>>52291905
Worse, their only hope is Wesley Crusher
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>>52291921
Psh, Stupid Adults
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>>52291126
>>52291187
>>52291219
Thanks anon. I'll be around so if you do make any with the Dauntless, I'd be grateful.

>>52289135
That still leaves me with the time drain. How long does it take to grind any of those ships? ill wager it's a long time.
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>>52292003
The free ships you get through leveling up, which is pretty quick for an MMO.

The pay ships are what take a while.
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>>52291878
A slow shooting rifle isn't going to be much good against a swarm of replicators.
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>>52292003
Id say it will probably take you a week to get from 0 to level40 where you get your last free ships, then a short while till 50 and then it takes almost a week to get to 60.
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>>52288258

That's a myth anon.

All Paris says is:

>PARIS: I've never navigated a transwarp conduit. Any problems I should be aware of?

There has been to my knowledge and google-fu when this last came up, no disavowal of Threshold, nor has any writer, producer, or actor said anything more than "Yeah, it's shit." I'm honestly beginning to think that fans hate the episode so much they WISH it was non-canon and have just circulated that it is based on an improperly remembered line.

Neither Memory Alpha nor any amount of digging on the web has turned up evidence that Threshold was decanonized, but if anyone can find something credible, I'll be the first to bookmark it.

>Source: http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/403.htm
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>>52288415
>But it absolutely was, or at least it ended up that way.

Then Mayberry was shit at it, because he apparently wanted Ooga-Booga and ended up with Wakanda.
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>>52292038
Good thing they have plenty of examples of historical firearms in the database that they can easily replicate. Or just lure them into a holodeck and turn the safeties off.
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>>52292511
Yeah, like that time Picard armed his security teams with machineguns instead of sending them back into the borg infested halls with phasers that had already been adapted to. Oh wait.
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>>52292536
I've always believed that the Borg CAN adapt their shields to physical projectiles, and have even used this against an RPG crew who had that "lol stupid borg try adapting to hot lead" mentality.
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>>52292591
It doesn't seem like a hard adaptation, everyone uses force fields to stop physical objects. If a force field can keep a shuttle bay from decompressing with the doors wide open to vacuum it'll sure as hell stop a bullet.
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>>52292067
>>52292034
I'm not exaggerating when I say I just don't have that sort of free time on my hands. Especially for a game that's only appeal for me is pretty ships.
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>>52292206
Thats a genuine shame
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>We are Uncertain of Borg. Will you be assimilated?

>We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

>We are Apathetic of Borg. You will be assimilated, or maybe not. We don't really care.

>We are Dishonest of Borg. You will not be assimilated.
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>>52291147
Lets be honest. Starfleet would turn the Replicators into servants and then bestow sentience on them, forcing everybody to accept them as citizens of the Federation.
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>>52292206
From the perspective of using the setting for an RPG, there is so much 'canon' shit that I would outright discard that Threshold is the fucking least of it. I'd probably make a full page+ list of shit that's retconned to work different or just didn't happen to make it less of a damn headache from a gaming perspective.
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>>52296077

Which is totally fine. Not that you need my approval. But, in general, with RPGs, what is and isn't canon is an agreement between the GM and the players.

In my case, I'd scrap the TNG warp scale and go back to the TOS one. Yes, that means some ships will be traveling at like, warp 20. Don't give a damn.

I'd also scrap using pattern backups from the transporters, because it always made me wonder why they didn't have a special "transporter" that was like a those respawn tubes in System Shock 2.

Red Shirt died? Replace him from the backup. Getting too old? Replace yourself from a backup with transferred memories. I'm sure you can convince a Vulcan to do a mind transfer is necessary.

I'd also put psychics back in, because I like them.
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>>52295902

>We are Lustful of Borg. Your ass will be simulated.
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>>52296790
>>52295902
> we are Schrödinger's Borg...or are we?
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>>52296790
>simulated
Well, good for them I guess.
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>>52291992
SHUT UP WESLEY!!
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>>52292638
I think the implication with kinetic energy and shields is the energy requirement needed to negate the physical damage. A cube or a shuttlebay has the entire power reactors of a ship to pull off of to stop physical pressure, but even the Borg can't generate enough power to entirely negate kinetic effects in a drone. It'd be a waste of resources when you can just swarm them with bodies.
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>>52296077
And this is why every Star Trek RPG I've ever done has been set in the "turn of the century" period. Less stupid "lol technobabble" bullshit.
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So I finally got to see Star Trek: Into Darkness.

Whose idea was it to make Klingons lizardmen wearing recycled Uruk-hai armor?
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>>52296772
I'd agree with pretty much all that.
Psychics I can deal with because it's always had them, but I'd keep them very limited, for instance Vulcans are fine for it since they need to get all touchy-feely.

First thing I'd do, pretty sure I've said before but is change the way warp drive/transporters/artificial gravity works so they're all parts of the same branch of tech in distorting space. Functionally the same except the major change is transporters are a very tight-focused warp-field to create what's effectively a wormhole, not a break-down-and-reassemble machine that should have insane consequences if taken to it's logical extent of simply what's shown. Just keeps it as a thing for going from here to there quickly, as originally intended.

Time Travel gets largely thrown out the window too unless it's something Guardian of Forever tier or above in incomprehensible power.

Federation confirmably has money and trade but it's just largely unimportant to most people, particularly on core planets because the basic standard of living is stupidly good.

Redshirts that get taken planetside are basically marines, not mall-cops. Regular security can be crewmen, not academy trained.
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>>52298316
I usually have the Federation core worlds having a kind of reputation-style economy like what you see in Eclipse Phase, Outside of that, you still see money in the form of credits and accounts and shit. Most commonly used in transactions with merchants from outside the Federation, but sometimes internally as well.

I don't change a whole lot else I also don't mind psychics but that usually feels a bit more natural for me to work with in an RP.
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>>52277545
Can we get this in STO?
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>>52298265
There's really no excuse for it. I'm going to go ahead and say that, at some point the Kelvinverse Klingons tried to fix augments once and for all and ended up just fucking them up even more. Hence why they wear masks now.
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>>52298316

Pic related; you've got a slot on my team to reboot the Trek franchise should CBS ever decide to give their multimillion dollar franchise over to a random person on the internet.

Some thoughts of my own:

>Away teams wear at least some form of body armor, even if it's just the overcoat that they wear in 'The Cage' (I've heard some fan theories that it's made out of an ablative material which would make sense)

>Away teams also have camera feeds, perhaps through their combadges

>Replicators are either one of two things (or both): highly advanced 3D printers that can create fairly complex items like food but still require raw materials and/or machines similar to the existing replicator but that can only create relatively simple things like a block of a single element

>Transporters, in addition to what you mentioned, get nerfed back an era- so Archer-era is what Enterprise should have been to begin with transporters still being in the theoretical stage and certainly not for human use except maybe a highly experimental asspull once or twice in the whole series; Kirk-era is like in ENT where transporters are approved for human use but still somewhat buggy; and Picard-era is like TOS where transporters are finally in regular use but you still need a transporter pad on at least one side of the equation

>Speaking of transporters, the only time that a transporter pad is one just one side of the equation is for transports over relatively short distances with a clear line of site (basically between low orbit and the open ground of a planet's surface like what they were originally used for in TOS); transport between ships, starbases, buildings or open areas far enough to be blocked by the curvature of the planet require pads on both sides
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>>52299422
Don't forget, back in the Kirk era movies, security did in fact have body armor.
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>>52299791
Dem sexy ass movie era phaser pistols.
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>>52299805
Where did it all go wrong
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>>52299820

>TOS
Casual but function uniforms, with a bit of sexy '60s miniskirts thrown in the mix.

>TMP
Pajamas. Onesies. Huge belt buckles.

>WoK->UC
Actual uniforms. Sexy in red, and even a stripe in the pants. Miniskirts for the ladies if they want them.

>TNG->VOY
Pajamas.

>ENT
Jumpsuits/coveralls. Slight improvement over the pajamas, but still not great looking.

>Reboot
Inspired by the originals. Slightly sexier to modern sensibilities.
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>>52300040

>in

I meant "down". A stripe "down" the pants. Stripes IN the pants would be pointless. And reckless?
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>>52300040
I will say that I still favor the late DSP/First Contact era uniforms over basically all others.

>>52299820
I hear that they had to redesign the phasers to be a little more curved after actors literally could not believably aim the things.
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>>52300204

>can't believably aim

This is what happens when you don't put ironsights on things, and don't make them fit the hand the way a reasonable weapon would.
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>>52300239
I think the idea behind TNG phasers is that they wanted them to look less like actual weapons; the problem with this being that weapons tend to look the way they do for a good damn reason.
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>>52300040
>belt buckles
Na m8, those were some sort of bellybutton mounted computer device. Damned if I know what they were for though.
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>>52300276
>dat Indian with the headband and beads
what, they couldn't just find a full feathered headdress?
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>>52298316
>>52298365

The way I see the Federation economy working is that money (or credits, or whatever you want to call it) is used for luxuries. You spend it on things that go beyond the basic standard of living and in turn you work to earn it only if you desire such things.

So, the Federation (or the United Earth government; it's not exactly clear if the economics espoused in Trek is a human thing or the Federation norm) provides its citizens with everything necessary to live a high quality life a la modern Scandinavia (but on a worldwide scale): basic housing (clean and comfortable with no frills; if anons haven't seen it I suggest checking out the 'prison cell' Norway keeps Brevik in which, despite being small and simple, is arguably still nicer than the housing most noncriminal humans have access to) and utilities, simple yet nutritious food, non-elective healthcare and education. So if you want to live the neet life in a comfortable if somewhat bland and sterile fashion you're certainly free to do so.

However, most humans will ultimately want more- either do to the Trek idealism of desire for self-improvement, old-fashioned greed or a little of Column A and a little of Column B. If someone wants to buy a boat (like Scotty mentions doing in one of the movies) or a nice ranch house (Kirk, again in one of the movies) or a handcrafted item or piece of artwork (the lamp Janeway buys on Vulcan; the Tholian Silk Crusher bills to her Enterprise account in an episode of TNG) or an antique or collectible item that's value comes from authenticity rather than raw materials (Sulu's weapon collection; Sisko's baseball memorabilia) or anything else that is for one reason or another going to be of limited availability even in a high tech setting like Trek then naturally then government isn't going to shill out for their personal hobbies and the individual is going to need something extra - money - to acquire it.
>>
>>52300276

>no one is happy in this picture
>this is the future we chose

I guess I spaced on the fact that they aren't wearing belts at all. This is especially egregious because I watched TMP not long ago.

>>52300270

Yep. I know Gene had this whole "Starfleet isn't a military" thing, but honestly, Starfleet is BETTER for being a military that makes constructive use of its members in peace time by making them explorers, rather than throwing them away like modern ones do (granted, we don't have much to explore anymore).
>>
>>52300318
I do like that phaser rifles started looking more like futuristic assault rifles as time marched on, at least. And the early and late 2370s models of Type 2 phaser aren't too terrible looking, either.
>>
>>52300318
>I guess I spaced on the fact that they aren't wearing belts at all.
What was the point of having what looks like a belt buckle on all the uniforms if you don't have a belt? Not really directed at that anon but just a general question. Did they service any function at all?
>>
>>52300404
Maybe the belt is actually an invisible force field projected by the buckle.
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>>52299422
>Away teams also have camera feeds, perhaps through their combadges

This. That is absolutely going on the list. Also good for RPG purposes because it makes the landing party accountable. That damn thing is gonna be constantly recording even if not transmitting. Also handy for mysteries as it can be used to see stuff or mysteriously not see stuff.

Body armour can stay too, preferably not so overt as >>52299791 because much like the choice to take pistols rather than rifles the whole time, not appearing armed for war is a good move generally. So many redshirts could have been saved by a sci-fi stab-vest built into their excursion outfit.

I actually meant to cover replicators since I did link transporters into warp fields not matter-jiggery. But that is basically it except they absolutely should be able to construct very complex devices... if they're built for it. Standard food outlet? Nah. But even the original Enterprise had a small manufacturing section for fabricating extra clothes, phasers, spare parts and so on. Replicators should just be an extension of that rather than energy to matter to energy.
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>>52300464
>Star Trek
>Cool ideas
>Done in the most retarded ways at times
Why is this so often true?
>>
>>52300569
Because some people just can't execute them well.

Mind, different people are going to have different opinions obviously on what was well executed and what wasn't.
>>
why are there no good star trek video games? there's so much potential for the universe
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>>52300627
Bridge Commander wasn't bad. Admittedly Commander Larsen was a cunt and some of the non-combat objectives could be annoying, but the space combat was pretty awesome. Plus your chief of security looked like Dwayne Johnson.

also I hear the Armada games ain't bad, though I'm not the biggest RTS fan.
>>
>>52300318
>no one is happy
Yes because they just got the news that their new XO and an Admiral were just BTFO in a transporter accident. No one's gonna be happy, except Kirk, I guess.

>>52300404
The buckle is a life support thing, apparently. Like SS13's suit sensors, only it makes an emergency forcefield if you get exposed to vaccuum.
>>
>>52300834
>The buckle is a life support thing, apparently. Like SS13's suit sensors, only it makes an emergency forcefield if you get exposed to vaccuum.

This is stupid then for its *absence* from that point forward.
>>
>>52300627

>no good Star Trek vidya

Starfleet Command begs to differ. As does Elite Force and Star Trek 25th Anniversary, and Judgement Rites.

The thing is, they've been so rare, and there hasn't been one recently that it seems like there's never been good ones. I'll admit that adventure games aren't to everyone's taste, and Starfleet Command can be a bit intimidating, but if you can give them a chance, they might grab you.

Elite Force is the best thing to come out of VOY. And probably the easiest Trek game to get into.

>>52300834
>>52300874

I... I actually don't hate this, and why wasn't this a thing from then on out?
>>
>>52300966
Isn't Starfleet Command also based more on the SFB Universe than Star Trek proper?
>>
>>52301010
It's about 50/50

There's also a bunch of good mods for star trek for other games.
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>>52301039
Ah.

(I don't hate SFB as a setting, mind. Though I do hate that the wargame's writing format and book layouts, among other things, are stuck so far back in the late 70s/early 80s that it makes Battletech look bleeding-edge new)
>>
>>52301010

Eh. It uses a real time translation of the SFB rules, set in a sort of translated SFB->WoK/UC universe.

The campaign (in the first one) is a bunch of missions strung together with some random ones in between. If you don't become a member of Special Operations (or whatever the super elite organization is called - it's the Tal Shiar for the Romulans, for the Fleet of the Dead for the KDF, and whatever for the others) you won't even have the single player campaign missions, just randomly generated ones.

It culminates in a fight against a Planet Killer in the Federation campaign.
>>
>>52300464

For the record, this is the type of (possibly) armor I was referencing. Basically a sturdy overcoat that isn't overtly combat wear but is made of (futuristic superscience) materials that can still withstand hazards one might expect if the locals aren't as friendly as hoped. Minor energy weapon resistance, some sort of advanced form of ballistic and piercing protection for more primitive encounters and maybe some good old fashioned weather-proofing as well.

If someone brings a full-blown disrupter rifle to the party you're screwed but then again DS9 seems to suggest that even full blown battle armor can't stand up to military grade weapons. Presumably Trek is similar to Star Wars in the sense that weapons have become so powerful armor is mostly useful against glancing blows and shrapnel while the best defense against a direct hit is simply not taking it in the first place.

And yeah, cameras. I can forgive TOS for not giving them to away teams do to the era it was made (then again, in Forbidden Planet they report back to their ship by camera and that was made a decade prior to TOS) but by TNG and onward it becomes a glaring omission. Handheld cameras and live reporting from combat and disaster zones were already becoming a thing in the real world when TNG was being made so even if the away teams didn't have body cams there should have a least been one dedicated cameraperson among them or their tricorders should have doubled as av receivers/transmitters or something.

Hell, in the episode where Geordi and his old crew are turning into invisible alien monsters they actually look at video footage from their old mission to try and figure out what us happening. So Starfleet apparently understands that a) cameras exist and b) are really damn useful, yet they continue to make it standard procedure that away teams just waste valuable time just describing everything they see back to the bridge.
>>
>>52301106

Fuck. I love TOS. I wish they had that jacket and the suspenders for STO.

I wish they also had the laser pistols.
>>
>>52301106
I asked one of the Trek writers at a con about the camera thing actually, and they said that the main limit on that was that it would have required special effects compositing on the main viewer, which they never managed to make inexpensive.
>>
>>52301106
>And yeah, cameras. I can forgive TOS for not giving them to away teams do to the era it was made (then again, in Forbidden Planet they report back to their ship by camera and that was made a decade prior to TOS) but by TNG and onward it becomes a glaring omission. Handheld cameras and live reporting from combat and disaster zones were already becoming a thing in the real world when TNG was being made so even if the away teams didn't have body cams there should have a least been one dedicated cameraperson among them or their tricorders should have doubled as av receivers/transmitters or something.
They use their tricorders as cameras on some very few occasions. Not nearly as much as they should.
>>
>>52301106

Because I ran out of text I'll also add one more camera related gripe- ships and starbases really need to have security cameras.

I think there was one episode of DS9 where one station had any sort of cameras on board to keep an eye on things and that was it.

>>52300834
>Yes because they just got the news that their new XO and an Admiral were just BTFO in a transporter accident.

But anon, transporters are the safest way to travel! Nevermind the fact that we can't even transport high-ranking personnel onto a docked ship within our own spacedock without them turning to goo. McCoy and Barclay are hilarious, irrational luddites!
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>>52301135

Hell, that's not even TOS. I wish it was TOS but it had been dropped even by then.

Those sweet excursion duds are from the original pilot, 'The Cage'.
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>>52296077
I've been considering running a ST game for a while, and really the only things that would really work are the players being really into the setting with the DM being even more into it so you can stick to canon on everything or, what I'm planning on doing, is just telling the players "this is a Star Trek type game, there are the really well known things like Klingons and warp drives and shit, but forget everything beyond that."

That way you get to pick only the best details and change things where something is stupid or doesn't fit what you're trying to do.
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>>52301364
I tend to take a middle of those two approaches; "things are largely as they are in Star Trek unless I note otherwise ahead of time."
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Enterprise to Reliant, you are ordered to surrender your vessel. Please respond
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Does anyone still play Star Trek Online?
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>>52303353
i think one or two other people here do but i don't think any of us have ever knowingly played together
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>>52300627
As mentioned here already, Bridge Commander, Armada, Starfleet Command and Elite Force are pretty good. And all of them have great mods that improve them further.

I'd also recommend Birth of the Federation, which is an old 4x, TNG-era game that managed to make random encounters scary, encapsulated most of TNG's significant players and made the Borg daunting.
Starfleet/Klingon Academy. Especially Klingon Academy. They were good games that had most of the Undiscovered Country cast play parts in the story.

The real core of Trek games at the moment is Mods.
Star Trek: Continuum: a mod for Homeworld remastered that allows you to fight across 4 different eras with numerous races, probably the closest modern thing you'll get to the combat shown in the shows.
Star Trek: Armada III: a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire. If you liked the big fleet battles of DS9 then this is the game for you. Probably the closest game you'll get to Birth of the Federation.
Star Trek: New Horizons: let's be honest, stellaris was just made for a Star Trek mod. And this one let's you expand from the Enterprise era, all the way to the end of the TNG era, with customised events and race appropriate starships for nearly every faction. You can build a Federation. You can build an empire. You can annex Bajor as Cardassia and "enlighten" the natives. What's not to like?
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>>52303353
>thread is basically /stog/
No, we're all fakers.
>>52304343
>Star Trek: New Horizons
Did that ever actually get finished?
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>>52304565
I think it's a continuing development, but there was a recent update that improved the core races drastically. There's a shit ton of new events for the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians and all of the Fed-founders. And I think they're currently working on streamlining the Dominion and the wormhole.
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>>52301442
Probably the best way to go about it. I tend towards making executive decisions in the game, both in Trek and other rpgs, as to whether something can be considered "canon" and while that often works, it has led to some serious arguments.
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>>52295902
>We are merchant of the Borg. Your monetary unit will be assimilated.
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>>52303353
Not much anymore, i already got the Gorn butterknife and have been logging in to just refine dilithium and slot doff and admiralty missions.
>>
>>52303353
>giving cats pills
Yeah fucking good luck with that, mate. The clever little shits will make you work for it.

>Question
Not in any meaningful way. Just for ship screenshots. Less than once in a fortnight I'd say.
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>>52303353
I've been playing on console lately because my computer is a potato that crashes every time I try to run it in DX11.
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>>52300293
The full feathered headdress is for chiefs only. That Indian is clearly an officer, and not enlisted scum.
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>>52300293
Bjorans get to wear their jewelry so go fuck yourself.
>>
Let's be honest if we go 'by the book' feds they would be boring as shit in a TT RPG. Are there any rpgs that do the antagonist races well? I think it would be more fun in setting being the dicks that fuck with the UFP than being Star Fleet could ever be in tabletop. Being an Orion smuggler sounds like fun.
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>>52300303
So...the UFP is a freemium game?
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>>52307654

Well, I guess that is a way to look at it.
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>>52300239
Has this ever been explained. So Starfleet personnel all have occular implants or something that allows them to interface with phasers, or do they genuinely issue them weapons that you just have to eyeball every shot with?
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>>52300303
This is my headcanon too.

I can believe a cultural shift would make people want for self-improvement just for the sake of it, even more than wealth accumilation like our current society, social pressures can convince humans to do pretty much anything, but we're still monkeys deep down and will always have at least some urge to have a bigger pile of bananas than those around us.
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>>52308282
Neither. Just some technobullshit about phasers having targeting scanners, to dodge the fact that the SFX had the phaser beams travel in a completely different direction from where they were aimed at - because the handheld hoovers in particular were nigh impossible to aim.

And that's coming from me - I still like them, as a welcome reprieve from future weapons that are either contemporary small arms with junk stuck on, or fishguns painted silver.
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>>52308282
>do they genuinely issue them weapons that you just have to eyeball every shot with?
As we see at the start of an episode of TNG, we see Riker and Picard doing phaser practice and they are just free handing it without any noticeable aids or it is just practice I guess. Still doesn't mean that the design of their hand weapons aren't stupid and unnatural to us.
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>>52308282
We know that the UFP is capable of mid-to-machine interface from Gordie's air filter/viser and Briel's brain surgery.

If the UFP put there mind to it every man, woman and child would see like gods and be as durable and strong as the machine.

But the UFP is as anti-cybernetic as Earth is anti-augment.
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>>52307039
Focusing on the more grimy and non-shiny parts of the ST universe has always interested me. The series spend a lot of time in the very clean, morally considerate areas, but I like seeing the people who are just out to make a spehs-buck and have to avoid those interfering do-gooders.

You see smugglers and pirates occassionally, but considering how accessible FTL-capable spacecraft are to a lot of species, I'd imagine you'd see lots more independant stations and planets with all the dubious elements those would attract.
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>>52308391
>But the UFP is as anti-cybernetic as Earth is anti-augment.

Literally no fun.

cybernetics and augments are entertaining if nothing else.
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>>52307039
>Let's be honest if we go 'by the book' feds they would be boring as shit in a TT RPG

I don't really agree per se, but I have been planning up a campaign for some IRL friends focusing on some shadier bits.
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>>52308354
"Improving oneself" in UFP speak means trying to place yourself on an imagined moral highground so you can out-smug those around you. This is why Picard is captain of the flagship of the Federation even though his service record is spotty as hell. He can belt out a speech to make anyone feel like shit. Riker comes in a close second through his self comparisons to lesser people.
It's all very hipster of them.
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>>52309100
I feel you don't really get Star Trek, or rather are going into it with a rather cynical worldview that demands that you find shit in everything you look at.
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>>52309292
It's possible to criticise logical discrepancies in a thing while also enjoying said-same thing
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>>52309100
>>52309412
The UFP mindsight seems to be wanting to improve oneself without fundamentally altering oneself. Genetic screening for illness and disease is one thing because it's just "normalizing" a person, but genetic manipulation and cybernetics for the purpose of actual improvement is entirely another. It ultimately boils down to the question of how far we can go before we stop being human.
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>>52309412

This, to be frank.

TNG gets a lot more tolerable when the writers ditched Gene's premise of "no conflict between the crew". Coupled with the fact that we don't really get to see the utopia that is the Federation, and what sacrifices had to be made to achieve, leaves the whole thing ringing hollow.

Furthermore, DS9 calls out the Federation's "smugness" with a conversation between Nog and Jake. Jake claims humans seek to improve themselves, and don't need money. Nog counters with "Then you don't need mine."

And yet, Nog is still a good friend to Jake and tries to help him buy the baseball card for his father. There's a lot of issues that crop up in a show where consequences are a thing you have to address, and the baseball card is one of them - a limited quantity item made from before scarcity went the way of the dodo, and has value for its historical significance as well as the pleasure of owning something unique.

>>52309537

Star Trek tends to approach post-humanism with a bit of a bi-polar mindset. On the one had, it's taboo to be more by altering yourself deliberately, but if evolution makes you better, no harm done.

Truthfully, I'd be more afraid of evolution, since evolution doesn't necessarily mean we'll be smarter and stronger in the future. Our environment may put selective pressure for stupidity and weakness instead.
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>>52309655
Your thinking with an actual scientifically valid view on evolution. Stop it. It has no place in Star Trek.

In Star Trek evolution, of both societies and species as a whole, follow a predictable, reliable and consistent set step by step chain form A to B in accordance with the Great Cosmic Plan.
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>>52309655
>Star Trek tends to approach post-humanism with a bit of a bi-polar mindset. On the one had, it's taboo to be more by altering yourself deliberately, but if evolution makes you better, no harm done.
Because it's not just improving one's self that Star Trek likes, it's improving humanity as a whole. You improve yourself not for the sake of improving yourself, but so you can pass on what you've learned to the next generation, so that they can improve themselves even further.

>"Someone invented a hut. Someone invented a bow, who taught others, who taught their children, who built a stronger hut, built a better bow, who taught their children."

Things like cybernetics is seen as "cheating" because it's something that cannot be passed along, it's intrinsically selfish. Genetic modification is something different if the improved genetics can be passed down hereditarily, but I think the main issue with that is that humanity cannot be trusted to actually pull it off without fucking it up. Remember Bashir was the single solitary exception in terms of turning out well-adjusted. Even the clone people in "Up The Long Ladder" just harvested existing genetic material without trying to otherwise mess around with it. Earth went through the Eugenics Wars and they don't particularly want a repeat.
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>>52308453
Kirk, I'm here to bargain.
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>>52300834
...so the lads we see getting spaced aren't necessarily dead?
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>>52309853
This. The Eugenics Wars, which ultimately as we learned in ENT were just a prequel for the far worse World War III, basically mentally scarred humanity. It also doesn't help that World War III and the post-atomic horrors that followed seemed to be rooted in an idea of genetics and eugenics as well.
>>
>>52299422
>>Away teams wear at least some form of body armor, even if it's just the overcoat that they wear in 'The Cage' (I've heard some fan theories that it's made out of an ablative material which would make sense)
Like MACOs?
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>>52309837
>Your thinking with an actual scientifically valid view on evolution. Stop it. It has no place in Star Trek.


Bingo. Wasn't there some profoundly stupid episode in TNG where some "precursor" race had seeded the gas clouds 1000s of stellar systems coalesced from so that bipedal humanoids would somehow evolve?

That had to be the most ANTI-SCIENTIFIC plot in a sci-fi show I've ever seen.
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Are there any Trek ships that are just a saucer with two nacelles coming from it, other than the NX Enterprise? And if so, are they in STO?

I need to know for reasons.
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>>52310107
The Centaur class, kinda (there's a tiny bit of secondary hull that contains the torpedo launcher).
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>>52310090
They said they seeded the early primordial ooze of a bunch of planets were primitive microbial life had already developed.

It is pretty stupid. But I like it, personally. I don't go to Star Trek for science, so I don't particularly mind when the science is wrong.
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>>52310107
The Pioneer is almost like that, but has a small secondary hull under the saucer.
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>>52310230
Pioneer a cute! CUTE!
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>>52310090
>That had to be the most ANTI-SCIENTIFIC plot in a sci-fi show I've ever seen.

Warp 10 Lizards

Also we are repeatably told that matter energy and thought are all interchangeable in Star Trek with enough effort/concentration but only Wesley was enlightened enough of all humanity to ascend to the higher plane of consciousness.
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>>52310230
Isn't there a semicanon TOS-era federation ship that's like...just a saucer, a connecting strut hanging under the saucer, and a single nacelle on the other end of that strut?
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>>52310107
Let's see, Gemini class has its engineering hull embedded on the main hull, the one above it just has the nacellas strutting off the saucer, so does the Akira class and its T5 and T6 counterparts.
The Federation carrier has nacellascoming off the asucer, although its saucer is just a massive bloated oval shaped thing instead of a saucer so that might not count.
Then there is the Constellation class (Stargazer), Heavy cruiser (Cheyenne class and its 3 other skins) and that should about cover it.
Oh yes and the miranda class, although it has that little engineering area for torpedoes.
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>>52310230
Most comfy ship.

T6 Pioneer is the only thing I would willingly part with money for.
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>>52310264
Technically Wesley was taken away by the equivalent of a Catholic Priest in the Traveler society. To the point they've had to retcon whole loads of shit in to make it less creepy.

>>52310268
Yes, the Saladin.
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>>52310314
>Odd number of nacelles on a non-Kzinti ship

Disgusting.
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>>52310359
I'm generally not a fan of *any* number of nacelles on a Federation ship other than 2. I will however concede that the Constellation class looks okay with its 4.
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>>52310314
I love that thing. It's like the Enterprise's birth defect-deformed baby brother.
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>>52310359
Sorry, is this better?
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>>52310314
Retcon all you want but the 12 year old just got into the back of an inter-dimensional transit van with egg boxes stapled to the inside of it. Sad thing is they were all, even his mother, so sick of his bullshit that they smiled as he left.

By the time he makes a brief cameo in Nemesis(?) at Troi and Riker's wedding his asshole is probably wide enough to accept a dimensional singularity without it touching the sides.
>>
>>52310090
>>52310153
It doesn't make a lick of scientific sense, but it has a nice theme to it (to an emotional and social species facing cosmic extinction, the prospect of another species arising to the same lonely fate might be too grim to accept) and provides the setting an excuse for why genetically compatible hominids popped up every which-where.
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>>52310376
I'm okay with 2 or 4, but never, ever any other number. I also only like Federation starships that have nacelles that can "see" forward, "see" backwards, and "see" each other - Cochrane-style outrigger design, basically (the Phoenix itself doesn't quite meet this since the nacelles can't "see" each other, but it was a first try so that's understandable.

I am NOT a fan of the Defiant...
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>>52310402
If it was canon, the baby Connie would be this.
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>>52310451
>m strshp

Cute. CUTE!
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>>52310451
Someone take this TOS styled Oberth please.
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>>52310451
It would be perfect with a secondary hull just tucked under the saucer section to house the Warp Drive rather than the deflector just hanging there on a few scaffolding poles and duct tape.

Bonus points if the other variant is called the Hake Class.

Although that might be a bit too grim of a reference for Star Trek.
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>>52277497
Which episode is this?
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>>52310486
Got a pre-refit Miranda?
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>>52310520
Sure. This first one is the FASA design for it, assuming that it would have received a somewhat radical overhaul like the Constitution did.
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>>52310520
>>
>>52310405
No, but for reasons unrelated to its nacelle number.

>>52310409
Wesley wasn't 12 when he left, though. For that matter don't think he was 12 in Season 1, even. Season 1 is 2364, and Wesley was born in 2348, so he would have been 14 or 15 (according to Memory Alpha, 15) in Season 1, and 21 or 22 in Season 7.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not disagreeing with your basic point. I just like accuracy.
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>>52310557
Interesting.
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>>52310561
I want it.
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>>52310557
And then this, which is basically just a TOS one, but not as interestingly designed as >>52310561. The latter of which I prefer, because I hate the "deflector dish hanging off a strut" look.

>>52310580
FASA Mirandas were light cruisers for when the absolute soul crushing firepower of a Constitution Refit/Enterprise class wasn't called for, and even then they could hit like a fucking freight train.
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>>52310563
I am aware of that, I was being derogatory in a petty and mildly childish way. Will Wheaten looked 12 till about 17 or 19. So far as I can tell he now looks and acts like a 12 year old with a clip on beard.
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>>52310602
>The latter of which I prefer, because I hate the "deflector dish hanging off a strut" look.

I'm torn. I'm also not a fan of that look, yet I like the overhead torpedo launcher that the refit had.
>>
>>52309837
>>52310090
also, the faster you go, the more lizardy you get.
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>>52310656
The Pioneer really has the most unique hull layout because no one ever thought about doing it. See, according to TOS, the Constitution (and thus presumably most Fed ships), the deflector takes up a huge amount of space, yet the dish on a strut look just does away with it. I'd love to see the Saladin and a couple other designs with something similar.
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Posting best Destroyer.
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>>52311284
Looks like a shit Centaur class, mate.
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>>52311344
That hurts. How about this underpowered torpedo bitch?
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>All this ugly FASA shit

Worse than STO and STO's native designs are almost universally fucking awful.
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>>52310450
The reason why the Jefferies-style design exists is because he rationalized the nacelles having some kind of radiation, so isolating them from the saucer and secondary hull was for the health of the crew, and not for any kind of efficiency reasons. In fact, given that rationalization, it can be further extrapolated that those nacelle rules come with drawbacks to efficiency, speed, stability or something else, which Starfleet considers an acceptable tradeoff in order to prevent the effects of long-term radiation exposure. Following the same logic, a Defiant-style nacelle layout is perfectly acceptable since the Defiant is meant for very short-term missions and permanently attached to a starbase, thus the increased radiation exposure is an acceptable tradeoff because the Defiant's mission profiles demands extra whatever that the Jefferies-style layout sacrifices.
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>>52311384
Say that to my 6 forward torpedo tubes and the Blue Fleet, not hiding behind the Vulcans.
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>>52311360
Actually not as cancerous as the other ones, although I'd like to know what the "wings" are.

>>52311384
Cryptic's designs are universally awful, but FASA's designs are (nigh)universally suffering from foetal alcohol syndrome, xzibit, or more often both. Literal retardation.
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>>52311437
Alright there Shranfan69:

Your designs look like shit. And that there is one of the better looking examples. But the engine placement is full retard.
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>>52311409
>The reason why the Jefferies-style design exists is because he rationalized the nacelles having some kind of radiation, so isolating them from the saucer and secondary hull was for the health of the crew, and not for any kind of efficiency reasons.

I believe that changed over time, however, to instead be rationalized as the outrigger design giving you the all-around best bang for your buck in terms of speed and efficiency.
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>>52311589
I've heard it said that the transition from circular to elliptical saucers was the result of further calculation refinements in that area, too.
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>>52311437
>Andorian ship
>not a Kumari

How obscene
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>>52311589
The in-universe excuses change all the time depending on what rationale they want to make up for any given design, just relaying what the original one was.

I mean, I know the Defiant breaks pretty much every pre-established rule for Starfleet ships, but that's why it works perfectly. It's not supposed to be a standard-issue Starfleet ship that solves problems with words and technobabble, it's supposed to be a set of heavy-duty guns strapped to a pair of overclocked engines so they can blow shit up.
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>>52311715
And yet I still find its potency strains belief a bit due to being so goddamn small. IMHO the Defiant would be more believable as a warship if the Federation made a bunch of them and had them operate in wolfpacks.
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>>52311647
Honestly, that angle's really unflattering - even on closer inspection, they just look like a battlestar with wings.
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>>52311785
I'd have rather it be a little less tough than it was in canon, ablative armour or not. I find the Defiant in the glass cannon DPS role STO gave it a bit more believable than DS9's literal pocket battleship.
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>>52311785
>IMHO the Defiant would be more believable as a warship if the Federation made a bunch of them and had them operate in wolfpacks.
That was actually what they were going to do. The original idea was to build a shit-ton of them and have them swarm the Borg.

Being small is fine because Starfleet ships typically have a bunch of science labs, bigger quarters, recreational facilities, etc. Don't need them if you're a dedicated warship on short-term missions.
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>>52311868
Fair, though I point out that pretty much *every* ship is a glass cannon in STO.
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>>52311819
I'll not have you talking bad of best-ship, you knife-eared whore
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>>52311895
I guess the issue for me is that I don't really buy that you can have that powerful a warp core in that small a space. I mean allegedly it's experimental and had lots of running problems but you hardly ever see this on-screen.
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So the radiation theory would be bunk because the Defiant didn't poison it's crew, then?
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>>52311962
O'brien spent a whole season more or less rebuilding the whole thing so it wouldn't tear itself apart.
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>>52311965
Or because the Federation had massively changed their engine systems by the time the Defiant was built.
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>>52311895
>Don't need them if you're a dedicated warship on short-term missions.

Amusingly, Starfleet actually did manage to find a way for the Defiant to be used on science missions every once in a while.
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>>52311715
>it's supposed to be a set of heavy-duty guns strapped to a pair of overclocked engines so they can blow shit up.

Yeah, but it's fucking ugly, and has a giant penis sticking out of its front making it even uglier.

Cryptic's Gallant-class design is an improvement, but I still would have preferred it if it had outrigger nacelles.
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>>52311962
It's because the warp core has less to worry about. Again, no extraneous features means less power requirements than your standard cruiser, and the smaller profile actually helps with that even more because you need to create a smaller warp bubble, the deflector and shields have less area they need to cover, and there's less mass for the impulse engines to deal with.

Or to put it in different terms: a Ferrari engine is much less powerful than a semi-truck, but faster because it has less shit to deal with.
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>>52312118
>and has a giant penis sticking out of its front

Anon, what do you think penises look like?
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>>52312023
Or because the entire crew is taking rad-away or equivalent drugs whilst on board.
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>>52312030
I like to think that the defiant's "science missions" were Sisko's way of giving the crew a vacation. They're going to throw a shuttlepod into that anomaly and then drink Worf's weight in booze while the pod crew figure out how to unshrink themselves.
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>>52312163
Sometimes I say "schnozz" instead. The point is that I hate the thing sticking out of the front of the Defiant.
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>>52312286
This is much better.
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>>52312309
It's really not.
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>>52312309
It genuinely isn't. And those extra little pods are just bad.
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>>52312647 >>52312368
Yeah, I'll admit I'm not a fan of the little pylons; fortunately you can choose to ditch them. Even if you couldn't, though, I can stand them much more than the giant fucking schnozz. I fucking hate it.
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>>52312923
Whoops, forgot the pic I had intended to include.
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>>52311905
I meant in terms of how the Eng/Tac/Sci was supposed to work in the advertising brochure, rather than the DPS-wank that the endgame has really become.
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>>52312118
>>52312309

The Gallant is cute! CUTE, I tell you!
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>>52312937
Cutting those off does admittedly make it look less stupid.
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>>52312937
Looks too much like the original BoP.
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>>52313533
In what world does that look like a B'rel
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>>52314026
He means the Romulan bird of prey.
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>>52314026
>B'rel
>Original
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>>52312937
Sort of reminds me of Dominion Attack Ships. Must be the curved shape.
>>
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>>52279137
naussicans, go full space pirate.or jaded post dominion war cardassians
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>>52314188
>That name
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>>52314038
Huh, I sort of always assumed that was referred to as a Warbird. But a quick look at Memory Alpha has destroyed everything I know to be true.
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>>52314248
SFB called them Warbirds... though I don't think they ever designated any ship design as a BoP.
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Gagh or racht?
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>>52312212
I doubt that Starfleet would greenlight a ship that literally poisons their crews. And even if, for whatever reason, they did, I really doubt that they would pack one full of the best cadets and send them on a long mission.
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>>52315961
>I really doubt that they would pack one full of the best cadets and send them on a long mission.

I dunno, those Red Squad guys seemed pretty fuckin' irritating.
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>>52279105
Yfw Gul Dukat's merry band of Cardassian privateers were only a few decisions away from going full Rogue Trader.

>Dukat as the self obsessed, self styled hero and general braggad
>Damar as his loyal, hardworking, racist, alcoholic adjutant
>Tora Zeyal as the naive daughter turned zealous soldier
>Kira as a former enemy and supremely skilled terrorist

>A cargo ship
>with a planetary defence cannon strapped to the front
>and a cloaking device salvaged from a BoP
>and a hold full of guns and kanar

>their mission to boldly profiteer off the misfortunes of the Detapa council and Klingon Empire alike
>>
>>52316046
>no really, it's a super important mission
>that we're entrusting to a pack of arrogant shitheads with no field experience
>on this flying death trap
>really, really far away
>near the Cardassian border
>on the brink of war

It holds up.
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>>52312286
What bugs me about the sensor pod is why it's articulated. What possible advantage does being able to dip your sensor array 5 degrees offer the ship?
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>>52316353
Maybe it's meant to detach from the ship.

>in b4 "lol saucer separation mafia strikes again"
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>>52316353
>>52316548

Isn't the Defiant's nose where her bridge is located?
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>>52316715

Nevermind. The MSD I posted shows the bridge up by her ventral surface - which is where the show's MSD puts it.

I must have been thinking of this cutaway, that I assume has no idea how the Defiant's deck layout was actually arranged.
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>>52316548
It is, but not as an auxiliary or escape vehicle. It's packed with warheads. Because it's an emergency fuck you missile.
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>>52316896
Fuck me that'd make it insanely small. Usually the disparity is if the Defiant is a 5 or 7 deck ship, not one. That thing is so amazingly wrong, there's not even space for crew quarters in there. Or features we know it has like the docking port right up front.
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>>52317657

Drexler's MSD shows the Defiant as having four decks, though a fifth is mentioned in dialogue (and is probably an error)
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>>52317455
Pretty sure that's actually the little sticky-out wedge bits either side given the development information. They're certainly not lifeboats as shown >>52316896 as it has standard escape pods.

>>52317657
>>52317758
*3, 5 or 7 decks that should be. Sources vary (tech manual shows 3 but... yeah problems) and the ship in the show varied wildly in size due to how it was filmed as a physical model and composited into shots.

4 seems fine, works well when compared to the smaller but not totally dwarfed tiny klingon bird of prey models. It's kinda funny we saw this ship through years of show and have a ton of information about it but just how big the damn thing is isn't a certain thing. That's Star Trek for you I guess.
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>>52317758
Ah, just like the Sovereign class and its Deck 29.
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>>52317898

Or the Enterprise-A and her 78 decks in Final Frontier.
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>>52312309
If only it looked half as pleasing to the eye as the "Romulan" Warbird.
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>>52317898
That's nothing. Don't forget Deck 78 on the Constitution Refit.
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>>52317989 here
>>52317967
Damn you, sir.
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>>52317968
I always felt it was a missed opportunity that there was no ventral aft torpedo launcher, so the bird of prey could literally shit on its enemies.
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>>52314130
>2.4502 metric tons
The fuck are they built out of, cardboard?
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>>52318070
It's the size of three Winnebagos side by side, and made out of space magic metals.
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>>52317758
>Drexler's MSD shows the Defiant as having four decks, though a fifth is mentioned in dialogue (and is probably an error)
Maybe it's a half-height deck or something, and they just called it "deck five" for convenience since "Deck four and a bit" is too wordy?

Same reason Sovvy can have a deck 29 without having 29 decks. (That, or some extended version of the "Don't have a floor 13" logic.)
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>>52319108
>Deck four
Hydrophonics
>Deck four and a half
Womens lingerie
>Deck four and 3/4
Hogwarts express
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>>52321025
>Hydrophonics

Now I'm imagining a starship hovering over the ocean with sensor buoys dangling into the water.
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>>52318070
Given how expepensable those things are,cardboard is a decent guess
>>
will jar jar abrams ever touch tng, ds9, or voyager?
>>
>>52323289
>JJ
>sticking with a franchise he's already run into the ground

Unlikely, friendo
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>>52318051
The comics did that with the T'varo. There's a scene where they're bombing a colony with plasma torpedoes, dropped from a bottom facing port.
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>>52312286
>Hating dicks
Then stay far away from Voth.
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>>52291187
>Mfw thats a screenshot of my ship
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>>52317891
I though the wedge parts were the torpedo launchers.
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>>52327140
>>52317891
No isn't the wedge part where you stick the DVDs into?
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>>52327405
It's actually the back/forward buttons. the top flips up. Fun fact: the Defiant design is actually just an old sony walkman with warp nacelles.
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>>52327576
That's amazing.
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>>52310107
NX is just an upside down Akira.
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>>52311868
It was designed to fight the Borg. They minmaxed the absolute shit out of it. It was very deliberately a game breaker in universe, because that was their only hope of survival against a fleet of cubes. You're basically complaining that a high level character can crush infinite hordes of level 1 monsters.

Now granted this does mean it's a bit overpowered against any of the other alpha quadrant races, but that's not an issue in the shows and movies because nobody else was at war with the Feds.

I do enjoy that my shipfu, the Excelsior class, was given equivalent guns, speed, power, and shields by DS9, like the USS Lakota.
>>
>>52310107
Honestly a couple of the wierd variants for the nova class look a lot like your picture
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>>52329445
>It was very deliberately a game breaker in universe

I wouldn't quite say that, honestly, given the fates of Valiant and the original Defiant.
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>>52318070
>2.4502 metric tons
That's a comma, for some reason placed in an inappropriate spot.

It's actually 24,502 metric tons.
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>>52329682
I thought it might have been a European comma or something.
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>>52316187
Holy shit, I didn't realise I wanted this so fucking hard
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>>52329445
No, they didn't. I would've loved them to minmax the absolute shit out of it, but there were no visible mins other than not having 54 holodecks. Even as an advanced borgkiller prototype, it shouldn't have the sheer level of Sue that it actually does - hell, the DPS glass cannon would actually make sense in an anti-borg philosophy (they can shred your useless, giant, overrated, cruise liner Tanks without breaking stride, so your best hope is to kill them quickly). I'm not complaining about a high level character crushing infinite hordes, I'm complaining about a godmode Breen power mcfuckery notwithstanding.

Seriously. I know I'm getting super autistic over this, but it's (almost) up there with Voyager's Infinite Torpedoes on my gripe list.
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/stg/, what the fuck are the Uuli? I swear to fuck if Cryptic introduce another Donut Steel that ends up like the Deferi...
>>
you guys think weed still exists in Star Trek
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>>52331475

No, the cannabis plant went extinct along with the humpback whales.

Now an alieb probe has shown up and is threatening to destroy the Earth unless they get some dank herb.

Are you a bad enough dude to time-travel back to 20th century San Francisco and get some?
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>>52330233
The Defiant has a ton of problems, but almost all of them are solved by attaching it to a starbase like DS9. Cruisers like the Galaxy, Constitution, Sovereign, etc. are built to survive for longer-term missions, potentially in terms of months or even years, without having to go back to starbase.
>>
>>52330233
To be clear, we are talking about the same ship that got its ass handed to it in its first appearance, failed spectacularly at the job it was initially designed for, and could barely hold its own against a fucking Excelsior, yes?
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>>52331971
On at least 2 of those occasions it was commanded by Worf. The Worf effect might encompass any ship he commands.
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>>52331475
It probably does exist, in the same way that alcohol exists, but the "clean living" ethos of the Federation frowns upon using it in any recurring fashion.
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>>52331843
>Are you a bad enough dude to time-travel back to 20th century San Francisco and get some?
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>>52331843
>Timetravel back to San Fran
>Procure some herb and get in other misadventures
>Return back to your own time
>Find out it's a bag of Oregano
>Have to make 3 more trips before you manage to get some actual weed
>>
>>52330575
Probably just a random ayy lmao for the story. At least they aren't god-like energy beings like usual.
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>>52331971
>and could barely hold its own against a fucking Excelsior
>A significantly upgraded Excelsior
>with the Defiant holding back because they didn't want to kill other star fleet peoples and it's not like it's a Galaxy with a giant science array and tractor beams that can stop a starship at warp.

Woah it's like context matters.
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>>52330575
Judging by how they're described in the fanfic blog, they seem to basically be discount geth, though possibly energy beings since they're described as "coalescing into view"

They're definitely more donut steels though, they don't show up on Memory Beta at all.
>>
>>52331475
Drugs exist, but judging by the conversation between Wesley and Yar they're considered evil and bad and wrong by the Federation and only used by dirty unwashed heathen barbarians in poor unaligned colonies.
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>>52332547
Wow.

It's like they kook everything people objected to about the society in Demolition Man and turned it up till the dial fell off.

UFP, or at least the part of it that is Earth, is dead. It's still moving it and it's people have no reason to.

No drugs, no alcohol, no interpersonal conflicts, no reason to get a job, no reason to engage in a profitable hobby, no reason to make now stories (there's a galaxy to import them from), no sporting events outside of computer games and no reason to do anything at all. It's the dream society of some non-entity like Chris Chan.

Fuck that. FUUUUUUUK that. The more I see it the more I agree with the Luddite Irish in that shit S1 episode.

I can see why the colonists the UFP sold out to the spoonheads were reluctant to go home.

Holy shit. UFP core worlds are a whole new and strange Hell.
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>>52332744
>no sporting events
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>>52332744
People demonstrably still have jobs.

Siskos dad runs a restaurant.
The Picards have a vinyard with numerous employees.
Obviously the Irish and Scottish still make whiskey, owing to numerous appearences of both varieties.
Picards old town mayor wanted to sign him up as a consultant on an atlantic arcology project.
Bashir's dad has apparently gone through dozens of different positons, including architect.
There are a shit ton of references to "so and so's" bar, restaurant or cafe on Earth.

Just because we don't get lengthy descriptions of job fields on the core worlds doesn't mean they're non-existent.
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>>52332744
>no interpersonal conflicts

Honestly, growing up in a shitty home, that would appeal to me greatly.

That said, it's also demonstrably untrue even in the happiest hoppiest bits of TNG. People still have personality conflicts and arguments and other sorts of drama.
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>>52332744
You should probably actually watch Star Trek instead of reading "DAE STAR TREK IS COMMUNIST???" reddit posts because nothing in your post is actually true.
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>>52312309
Looks like a wingless Vas'hatham desu. And those weird things sticking off it just look silly.
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>>52332744

...you either didn't watch the show or are just trying to get people talking.
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New Thread
>>52333740
>>52333740
>>52333740
>>52333740
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>>52317891
I think the "weapons" indicated in that picture are supposed to be the pulse phasers. And I have encountered references to the Defiant's nose being a "detachable warhead".

>>52329682
>>52329706
Actually it's probably supposed to be 2,450 tons. That's what DITL says, and unusualsuspex gets most of their specifications from there. Apparently the pic uses a comma that looks like a decimal point, and a '2' got tacked on the end by accident as well.




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