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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/4/19/legend-of-the-five-rings-the-card-game/

IT IS HERE!
>>
>>52786164
No one cares, we only play the autistic rpg and pray for the day someone who isn't a retarded soft racist weaboo narcissist writes the sourcebooks
>>
>>52786164
The entire game has fading...
When you pay for a character, you may place any additional amount of fate on it from your supply. At the end of a game round, characters with no fate on them are discarded. Then, you remove one fate from every character on the battlefield. Every turn then sees your warriors time running out; as the number of remaining conflicts both on the battlefield and in the courts begins to diminish, will they have enough time to achieve victory for their clan?
>>
>>52786164
I see FFG is still doing the core set bullshit, but I know a lot of people are going to be super hype for this.

Hope FFG doesn't have ALL their best LCG people on this - I know it'll be popular, but their other games are good too
>>
>>52786236
>The number of cards they draw is not static, and depends entirely upon how much of their precious honor they might bid. Players will use a unique honor dial to specify how many cards they want to draw (between one and five) from the conflict deck during the draw phase in secret. Players then reveal their dials to each other, with the player who bid more honor paying the difference to their opponent before both players draw an amount of cards equal to their honor bid.

???
>>
>>52786287
This is a really neat idea IMO. Puts pressure to big high but not too high.
I think this will be one of the hard points to master.
>>
>>52786164
Spider has gone the way of the kebab.
Story is reset.
Mechanics look interesting.

I am happy.
>>
>>52786262
I imagine that this game will get a ton of support. FFG spent a good chunk on this and they want to recoup that cost.
>>
>>52786572
Yeah, probably - I was saying that as a netrunner player, it's been noticed that things are getting a little sloppy lately (though Damon doesn't appear to have left on amazing terms), so it's basically just a hope that L5R doesn't take all the playtesters and designers and whatnot.

Though I wonder how the costs stack up compared to 40k, and note that they didn't have both at the same time
>>
>>52786512

Makes sense with the story reset. This puts them about 50-60 years before the spider were formed and about 10-20 before the mantis
>>
REBOOT TO PRE SCORPION CLAN COUP. BUGPOSTERS ON SUICIDE WATCH.
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>>52786809
GW used to be pretty casual with their licensing. I doubt it cost FFG anything for them to acquire it.
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>>52786164
>tfw fem!Hoturi
>>
https://discord.gg/qWt2YVp in case there isn't a discord already.
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>>52787204
I know right, the jokes write themselves. Though honestly I get why they changed that name. Toturi and Hoturi to me seems like they had a faggot that couldn't think up a name and rhymed to be a dork.

As an aside, Hotaru means Firefly in Japanese.
>>
>>52787204
Unicorn Clan champ also got replaced with a female.
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>>52786164
>Important Note: Three copies of the Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game Core Set are needed to have a complete playset of cards.

Oh for fuck sakes. At least the SW LCG only needed two. Netrunner technically requires three but let's be real - two is really all you need.

I was getting excited for this - but classic grubby tactics like this just turn me off.
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>>52787510
just play online on whatever client ends up coming out.
>>
>>52787431
>her name is Shinjo Altansarnai

I guess we all know where this is going.
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>>52787510
It has been said you only really need 2 for competitive.
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>>52787518
You're not wrong...

But let's be real - sitting opposite a mate and actually holding the cards is a far greater experience.
>>
I've tried to get into L5R during the Emperor edition, but i think i was too dumb so it was a real struggle.

I'll try with this one.
>>
Who are the designers, do we know?
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>>52788040

The same guys who did Warhammer 40k: Conquest.
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>>52786210
Shut up you fooking moron and die
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>>52787944
>Emperor Edition was too hard to learn
>so I'll try with this

Stick to MTG night buddyboy. They might have removed enlightenment but they made it much more complicated
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>>52788847
Maybe it was my bad english at the time.

I dunno i it was Emperor edition, but i got War of Honor and to be honest, i thought it was a massive struggle to learn. The lack of good video tutorials, which is what i generally go for when i don't understand the rules also made it difficult for me.

But reading the site now, i can understand more or less what is going on.
>>
I've never played Lot5R but this has cool at so I'm interested in it.
>>
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More info!
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/legend-five-rings-showcase/

Look good so far. Heard some playtesters coming out and saying they did not enjoy it so we will see if it is salt or truth.
>>
>>52789561
Wonder how those province cards will work
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>>52789623
They are face down in each province and your stronghold. When the other player attacks your province you flip the card up and it becomes active.

The Str is the number they have to beat to break the province and it is boosted by your stronghold (the two we have seen so far give +2 Str)
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>>52789561
Shamefur Dispray!
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>>52789661
I wonder what the elemental symbols in the bottom right mean. Maybe you can only have one of each element?
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>>52789706
That is a strong possibility, being that you have five provinces and thus 5 region slots. It would make sense thematically as well.
>>
As an RPGfag I just want to say that I'm super on board with the pre-Coup era.
>>
>>52790068
we also probably won't see a coup at all, for what it's worth. There's no telling if Tutori is going to exist either.
>>
>setting is a hard reset to the pre-Scorpion Coup era with a few changes like grill Hoturi
>Phoenix IMMEDIATELY back to their favorite hobby of fucking things up with forbidden magic with the interesting new plot thread they were handed

The Isawa have a problem. Its like watching addicts or a couple in an abusive co-dependent relationship. The Shiba are the battered half of the couple in this instance.
>>
>>52790092
He definitely exists. He was directly mentioned in the write-up and his big bro is the current Lion Champion. Hopefully he'll bang his hot Matsu wife enough to knock her up and we get a different Lion Champ instead of Toturi after he bites it.

>No army can withstand the ferocity and tenacity of the Lion’s warriors or the stratagems of the clan’s brilliant new general, Akodo Toturi.
>>
>>52790159
It is funny, I have a Shiba that became a Shugenja in my game and I dangled a Maho-y Treat for her. She resisted temptation for awhile but I could see I was wearing her down. She finally bit last session, justifying by saying she's trying to figure out Isawa's old pure blood magic. I think it is something inherent to Phoenix mentality, they must do the maho when given the chance.
>>
>tfw I started playing nezumi till Tomorrow came
>then I played Spider

what now
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>>52791259
Mantis, since Yoritomo's going to be back eventually. Claw your way to power again
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>>52791259
You were just a full on cancer player. Nezumi were only good as a joke faction. I am glad the fucked-fucked off.
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>>52791259
Play a real mans clan like crab desu
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>>52791585
This so much.

I'm sick to death of people who identify with Mantis and Spider bitching and moaning about their shitty clans getting dropped. Guess what? Mantis and Spider are fucking counter to the setting. They don't belong as protagonists. It creates narrative and thematic dissonance that they even exist in any capacity. The tone of L5R is restraint. Bushido is a strict code of conduct. Samurai Drama refers specifically to the conundrum of compromising Bushido to get a desired (typically "good for society") outcome. No, it isn't historically accurate to real life samurai. No, I don't give a shit. Rokugan is a romanticized ideal, much like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Faerun is. Mantis and Spider, at their core, are bastardizations of that romantic ideal. They espouse individualism. Strength of the low. The upsetting of order. The disrespect of the caste system. WHY ARE YOU PLAYING L5R IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ROMANTICIZED IDEAL IT'S CENTERED AROUND?

GO! GO AND STAY GO!
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>>52792142
Nooo but mantis! Muh waifu!!!! :((((
>>
Dragon clan colours have changed to green. Consider me triggered. Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-san
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>>52792811
Dragon colors were always Green and Gold.
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>>52792142
But that makes sense, you need a black sheep, somebody to point fingers.
You need the bastardization as counterpoint of the rest.
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>>52793474
>Scorpion
>Not specifically founded to be Hantei's Villians
>Dishonorable gits that everyone points fingers at
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>>52793535
The Scorpion started out as one of the bad guy clans but lost a lot when the "doing it for the Empire" bit became more and more prominent.
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>>52793631
Was never really a fan of how blatant that became but, "DO IT FOR THE EMPEROR" as a response to anything was hilarious to my teenage friends and I.
So I guess being a Scorpionfag worked out ok.
>>
>>52793631
They've been that way since Way of the Scorpion was printed way back in either 98 or 99
>>
>In the secluded mountains of the far north, the Dragon Clan—beset by a failing birthrate and the surging popularity of a potentially dangerous and heretical sect of Shinseism—looks to the guidance of its enigmatic champion, Togashi Yokuni, to restore the clan’s enlightened way of life.

Gotta say, the amount of fucks I give about the clan's birth rate is not high enough for that to be a notable plot point for the new era.
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>>52793803
Its more the fact that the in character justification for being skeezy was turned into an out of game justification for why they were the "good guys" and should be treated as such by the player base.
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>>52794167
Especially since the fucking Togashi aren't even a real family, but a monastic order.

>>52794268
Scorpion done badly (so nearly all of them) are some smug cockjugglers who can't even intrigue right. Just a bunch of "nyeh heh heh I kill ju xD lawl teh sekrit nonjaz!"

Fucking last time I tell someone about the Shosuro.
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>>52794393
The Kitsuki, Morimoto and Agasha need babies though too, and this does say the whole clan. They're probably not even cursed or anything, just learning what happens when too many people take vows of celibacy.
>>
>>52794393
>Scorpion done badly (so nearly all of them) are some smug cockjugglers who can't even intrigue right. Just a bunch of "nyeh heh heh I kill ju xD lawl teh sekrit nonjaz!"

Assemble a list of good Scorpion characters to use to highlight points when you tell people about them
>>
>>52794419
Yeah I'm blind, I totally just went Dragon=Togashi in my head. Also the "worldy monks" tend to wander all the hell over Rokugan, so any bastards they have are probably going to be exactly that, and simply be ronin. Although I always thought it'd be neat to have a group of fatherless ronin take the hard path up, then kneel before some former worldly monk and declare they're all his children. Never had a Togashi player who lasted long enough though.

>>52794430
Do you think those teenage faggots did that? Nah. This teenage faggot just talked about cool stuff and people's eyes glazed over because I just go on and on about stuff. Good call though.
Gonna do that for near all the families. If I ever get that game wrangled up.
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So when and wehre might we get the new card art as individual images? The first wave we've seen them preview is gorgeous and look like the work of one consistent artist. Does the artist post them on a personal website or something? Because I am ready for new waves of good shit to add to my L5R folder
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>>52794747
AFAIK the art that was shown in today's preview was all art from the last couple of arcs for L5R CCG
>>
One thing I liked that seemed to be implied in todays posts is that all "named" personalities are unique and non-uniques are things like "Eager Scout." I always hated having multiple copies of the same personality on the board.
>>
>>52794594
>Also the "worldy monks" tend to wander all the hell over Rokugan
At this point in the timeline, unless FFG alter things, the Togashi aren't particularly worldly - of the few hundred that exist at any time, only a few venture out to make their continued existence known.
>>
>>52795344
I keep forgetting how late a whole bunch of things are that I just take for granted. Gonna take some getting used to.
Still, kinda glad they rolled it back.
>>
>>52795447
I was always partial in the RPG to the 4e approach of making the 'now' roughly line up with the card game canon but having thorough options to play in different eras even before Imperial Histories was a thing.

But that is RPG talk not LCG relevant obviously.
>>
>>52795513
That is horrible as it means every book has wasted page count on the cancers that the CCG promoted, most prominently the Spider and their Sooper Sekrit Sith Samurai Kode.
>>
>>52795513
>>52795550
I agree with both of these statements.
Spider should be in their own book, relegated to the back of the highest bookshelves.
4e's take on setting is the best option though, since it's what most Referees do anyway.
>>
>>52795550
Its better than locking it into the CCG plot like the old editions. I actually use a (radically altered) version of the Spider in my game, since we took canon and went off the rails after the Destroyer War for fun in an old campaign and are playing a century later sequel game now.

But again, I appreciate the option. I don't ever intend to use half of the shit from Imperial Histories but appreciate it existing for people who want it, and some people with poor taste like the Spider as they were.
>>
>>52795550
Not everyone hates the Spider, and just because mechanics exist, that does not mean they always exist for the players' benefit and use.

>There are a great many individuals and organizations who hope to rival the Great Clans, and, if the Game Master desires, it is possible to use these as foils for the player characters, or even as player character options.

>>52795608
>Spider should be in their own book
No one wants to write a book that won't sell to more than a portion of the fan base. Why else do you think they haven't repeated the 'one clan, one book' format since 2e?
>>
>>52795664
I really like the "Way of"s, but you're right, they're not really the best sales format.
I was mostly being facetious though.
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>>52794747

Crane-san, where do you/did you get your L5R art?
>>
I just hope they done fuck too much with the RPG. IMO (aside from the questionable meta plots) one of the best games out there. Could use some balancing (badger with ono pls go).
>>
>>52796913
>badger with ono pls go
You understand that Testubo is objectively superior than an Ono at pretty much every point in the game, right?
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>>52795344

Don't take that for granted; the Dragon are explicitly good at both courtly and military conflicts, a 'balance' theme. They're changin stuff.
>>
>>52797142
>the Dragon are explicitly good at both courtly and military conflicts, a 'balance' theme.
That's nothing new, senpai.
>>
Already asked in Crab-Anon's story thread, but I haven't had a response yet. Figured I'd ask here.
Has anyone got a link to the City of Lies pdf or pdfs? I had a mediafire but it was taken down a couple weeks ago.
>>
I'm pretty damn excited.

The rules look interesting with enough complexity to not make it feel dumbed down, and I like the bidding with card draws thing they got going.

I just hope they introduce some sort of multi-player format at some point. Warhammer Invasion was always more fun with more than two people, but they waited way too long to add that officially.

I also look forward to Mantis at some point.
>>
>>52787204
Will Hotaru still have a fling with Kachiko? Inquiring minds wish to know.
>>
>>52798036
My guess is she'll bang Toturi or maybe Himtomi.
>>
>>52798134
>Himtomi
Is this a thing?
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>>52798858
Not yet, but I'm sure we can make it happen.
>>
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>>52798992
I kinda like Hitomi as she was before the HDM / would have been without it.
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>>52798134
Toturi has too much love for his games of strategy to fuck a Scorpion for fun
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>>52786164
>Spider BTFO'd
>AEG's shit storyline BTOF'd

BASED FFG.
>>
>>52800031
I think they meant fem-Hoturi.
>>
>>52786164
Did l5r setting has ratman in it?
>>
>>52800812
They were called Nezumi and they were fucking weird
>>
>>52800266
>lesbian affair between the Scorpion champion's wife and their ancestral political and cultural rival's clan leader

Just like in my Japanese animes!
>>
>>52800858
Ok ... Imagine a triangle between the three. Toturi, Hotaru, Scorp champ wife ... now take out the Scorp. That's the one.
>>
>>52797014
You're right, got my heavy weapons mixed up.

Though I will say crit fishing with a dai tsuchi is almost as fun.
>>
>>52796913
>>52797014
Large weapons is as much of a Badger schtick as it is a Crab schtick. Even more so, considering they leave their katana at home.
>>
>>52802418
Incidentally, I'd still rather see damage dice taken away from weapons to some degree, with insight rank taking up the slack.
>>
>>
from today's AMA
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>>52801071
>Ok ... Imagine a triangle between the three. Toturi, Hotaru, Scorp champ wife ...
>>
>>52802450
Honestly the bulk of your damage dice come from Strength and Raises, especially later in the game. Your kept dice are entirely decided by your weapon and are generally very hard to raise, and getting more kept dice is VERY difficult.
>>
>>52803775
Wait wait wait...winning a duel will likely cost you honor. That is a huge break in fluff, winning a duel proves beyond a shadow of doubt that your position is the correct and honorable one.
>>
>>52803911
Thats not what's being expressed. First of all, you only lose honor if you overbid. If both players bid 3, no change in honor is made. Second, the bid is weighted by the stats of the duelist.
>>
>>52793535
>>52793631
>>52793749
Scorpion will always be the worst Clan.
>Muh I'm edgy and evil but secretly uber loyal
They always were waaaay more Fedora-core than even the Spider.
>>
>>52804065
Just because they're loyal and doing their job doesn't mean they don't go too far. The Lion's job is to make sure people keep standing armies. The Crane's job is to promote culture. The Crab's job is to keep the shadowlands at bay. All of these clans can go too far in their job and lose sight of their true duty.

So you may as well bitch about the Lion being "MUH LAWFUL STUPID HONORABU PALADIN RUTHLESSLY KILLS ALL OPPONENTS BUT IS SECRETLY UBER LOYAL TO EMPIRE AS A WHOLE"
>>
>>52803911
The different rewards for winning the duel could influence bidding a lot.
>>
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First SJW MRP and and Ban.
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>>52804602
How the thread looks now.
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>>52804602
the fuck is an MRP?
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>>52804628
Most recent printing/posting
>>
>>52803911
The fluff is you are bidding honour to fight dirty. Say if you had two duelists of equal skill and in the duel you bid 5 and the opponent bids 1. That pretty much represents your guy kicking his in the nuts and then shooting him with a fucking gun out of nowhere
>>
>>52804628
Most Recent Printing. The L5R CCG had a tendency to reprint cards with new text, most notably the titular Five Rings. The joke being that since FFG edited their initial response it was an MRP.
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>>52804614
Embarrassing. How dare people have dumb fun! Typical fucking reddit, no eyes would move if it was two males oil wrestling or some shit
>>
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>>52804602
>>52804614
>can't take literal joke
It's not even their most devoted playerbase. They get all their money from those white-ass, male Star Wars game players.
>>
>>52804815
vocal minority.
>>
>>52804602
No fun allowed?
I am getting that playmat made and going to all my events with it.
>>
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>>52804845
Is there anything more pointless than attempting to promote diversity and gaming to a sub-population that isn't interested in it? I ask this as a token POC who regularly shows up to LCG nights as one of the very few, if not only, minorities present.
>>
>>52804894
Don't be the guy with anime sleeves.
>>
>>52804895
inb4 black samurai.

Wait, wasn't there one actual black samurai? That might be cool.
>>
>>52804939
My wife bought me these anime sleeves and I'm going to goddamn use them.
>>
>3-6 turn game
>45-90 mins

no just no
>>
>>52804895
To answer your hypothetical: trying to compete with bigger games by only clinging to one demographic.

>>52804954
Yasuke
>>
>>52804962
It's most certainly a 2 out of 3 format by default.
>>
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>>52804939
>Not having your Waifu protecting your deck.

>>52804962
turns are shared so 3 turns is up to 12 conflits, easy to see that taking awhile.
>>
>>52804962
I mean that's how long my games went typically in Ivory. Turns sound low but it seems like they're cutting out one or two turns worth of building before action
>>
>>52786164
>Cards look worse than before, don't like the no Borders and the !notasian! font.
>Fucking pretentious, ugly cherry blossom theme
>Fading Units and FFG betting gimmick
>Crab Border Guard has 3 Politics stat?

Waited almost 2 years for this but thanks but no thanks. I'm out.
>>
>>52805117
>Hates everything good about the preview

Is this bait?
>>
>>52804987

Shit taste desu senpai
>>
>>52805133
I'm asking the same question.
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>>52804895
I wonder (((who))) would do such a thing myself.
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>>52805168

Shoo.
>>
>>52805133
Not really. Just disappointed as a long time CCG player. I started with Jade Edition but I'm honestly sad about what they have done, The pink cherry blossom scheme really turns me off.
Also doing the Day of Thunder again sounds kinda lame. At least we will get good art out of this.
>>
>>52805205
1) The sakura design is tight as shit so you can get out of my face you uncultured fuck.

2) We're not sure they're even doing the second day of thunder. It's implied that they might make an entirely new series of plot-lines.
>>
Taking a step back from the hype and my excitement for the game and mechanics, and bearing in mind I have no connection to or nostalgia for the setting, one thing that does give me pause is the theme. It's pretty Orientalist, and unless I missed something, being headed up by a bunch of white dudes makes this more problematic.

Obviously none of us knows what direction FFG is going to take the game and theme, and they've shown they can be fairly inclusive and sensitive in Netrunner, and from what I've read of both old and new L5R, it's low on the sexism scale. That said, as much as I really want to be on-board with the theme, it makes me uneasy.

More specifically, I wouldn't want a casual observer walking by a game to look at it and feel extremely uncomfortable/alienated/objectified/othered because of the theme, because that sucks and excludes people in what should be a safe, comfortable social setting. This is a long-standing problem in boardgaming in general, and I think we've come a long way (and have much longer to go), but I can't shake the feeling that reviving L5R is, at best, maintaining the status quo, or at worst, taking a step backwards.

I don't really know how to approach it, but I know a good metric for this sort of thing is, "if you feel the need to ask, then you probably shouldn't go through with it."
>>
>>52805292
Why would someone do this? Just go into a thread they don't like and post bait?
>>
>>52805292
Bad bait

Unless you actually saw this somwhere
>>
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>>52805292
Here's your (You)
>>
>>52805205
>Not really. Just disappointed as a long time CCG player. I started with Jade Edition but I'm honestly sad about what they have done, The pink cherry blossom scheme really turns me off.

...You do realize that the cherry blossom theme is a very major part of Samurai fiction and media? A lot of stuff compares the life of a Samurai to the Sakura (cherry blossom) season. It was short and ephemeral.

>Also doing the Day of Thunder again sounds kinda lame. At least we will get good art out of this.

While the setting has been reset back to before the Scorpion Clan Coupe, it has had a fair number of significant changes and we don't even know if the same basic plotline will be even followed.
>>
>>52790217

There was a Moshi I played once who ended up with like 5 different forbidden lores (Blood Magic, Gaijin Magic, Unicorn Spell Codes, Kolat are the ones I can recall without dragging up her sheet) at once.

The other players joked that she clearly owed a lot to the fact the Moshi are an offshoot of the Isawa family.

Oddly enough, she never ended up with any actual corruption over the course of the game. She learned about such things but never actually used any of it. She just felt a compulsion to learn and explore.
>>
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>>52805410
>While the setting has been reset back to before the Scorpion Clan Coupe

Pictured, the Scorpion Clan Coupe
>>
>>52805494
Woops.
>>
>>52805292
So where are you reposting this from?
>>
Since they're reusing art, do you think we're going to get Genzoman back again?

>>52805494
Is that a Decepticon?
>>
>>52805570
>Since they're reusing art, do you think we're going to get Genzoman back again?

Unlikely. They seem to be going for a different aesthetic.
>>
>>52805319
>>52805327
>>52805360
Original L5R was ostensibly created by a group of white men who thought the theme was cool. It's a made-up setting for sure, but it pulls directly from East Asian history and culture, of which the creators were not a part, nor to which they had any real connection. They took the parts they thought were neat and incorporated them into their creation, which is straight up cultural appropriation.

The general problem with boardgaming's history is that it involves lots of themes of colonialism, racism, colorism, sexism, and cultural appropriation. It was (and still is) pretty exclusive to anyone but cisgendered white males. As the industry has grown, it's worked on shedding that notion to become more inclusive, but it's far from perfect.

Drawing an analog to another FFG product and another LCG, Netrunner was a step in the right direction, by featuring a diverse cast of characters with fewer stereotypes (I say fewer because I don't well enough know how the Mumbad Cycle portrays folks from the Indian Subcontinent) than you might expect from the industry, which makes it more inclusive and gets further way from the aforementioned problems.

Reviving L5R appears to be maintaining the status quo or stepping backwards into the habit of objectifying cultures seen as "exotic" to Westerners and reinforcing stereotypes, instead of moving away from those things.
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>>52805673
How much time did you spend on this?
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>>52805688
If you do not see the issues I am pointing out then you are the kind of people we need to ban from the gaming community.
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>>52805714
I would take your bait seriously like you want me to if it didn't contain such ridiculous claims that are commonly known to be false.
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>>52805714
If no one is playing because banned them all do you win?
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>>52805714
Actually you are. White Guilt tends to be much more harmful to racial and cultural equality and integration than what is often claimed falsely to be attempts at cultural appropriation.
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>>52805673
>colorism
Fuck you the Cyans had it coming, day of the Magenta rope when?
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>>52805892
FUSHIA NATION STRONG
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>>52805892
>, day of the Magenta rope when?
Now, brother
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>>52805908
Indigo represent!

Truly we are blessed to live in the Warmo-sphere with the only other civilised colours.

>inb4 Orange shitposters
You're not a warm colour no matter how hard you push it you sub-shades.
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>>52805928

Gas the blues, hue war now!
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>>52805886
Let's not pretend that original L5R wasn't really, really stereotypical to an insulting degree. That isn't to say there's immediate cause for concern with the reboot, but if it's all "honoribu samurai" and "sexy dragon lady geisha" it can become real problematic real fast.

That all said, I think FFG has a solid grasp on disentangling properties from their more problematic issues. Arkham Horror has plenty of diversity, in spite of its origin. The art style of L5R isn't anime or caricature, and yes while the "mono no aware" line was a bit cringy if that's the worst it'll be fine.
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>>52806003
>but if it's all "honoribu samurai" and "sexy dragon lady geisha" it can become real problematic real fast.
There would be literally nothing wrong with that, get fucked this is a colour thread now.
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>>52806003
t. yellowposter
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>>52805673
>>52805292
>>
A dude wrote a blog post a couple years back about the cultural appropriation and Orientalism in L5R, it's a decent enough read that should outline the problems for anyone that doesn't get what he's talking about, https://shutupinternet.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/the-problematic-nature-of-l5r-part-i/

My problem is that it puts the responsibility of education about the topic on the shoulders of the artist or creator and forgives the consumer for their ignorance and inaction into actually learning about the true history or culture of a place. Like if you decided to give me a lesson on piracy based on your having watched all the Pirates of the Carribbean movies I'd think you were an idiot. Similarly, I don't think anyone should be acting like they know Asian culture having played L5R.

The designers mention that the game is inspired by The Book of Five Rings, but I don't think it's borrowing enough from it that they need to pay them money for it, or mention it every time their game is mentioned. Basically I think that L5R falls more under cultural 'borrowing' than wholesale 'appropriation' because it's a fantasy story, not a historical one.
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>>52806330
>Basically I think that L5R falls more under cultural 'borrowing' than wholesale 'appropriation' because it's a fantasy story, not a historical one.

So there's no real problem and you're a useless shitstarter, good to know.
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>>52806330
You know what I find funny. Only Westerners give a shit about this. I've lived in Japan and learned a fair amount of the language and culture. Actual Japanese people could not care less about how a fantasy version of themselves made in the West is shown.

Anyway, enjoy your (you).
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>>52806719
Japans culture is too behind on social justice to understand the damage things like this do. It is our jobs as a socially aware nation to protect them.
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>>52806771
Come on, that's not even weak bait. Try harder, Otomo-san.
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Hey, what's going on in this thread? I just recently heard about Legend of the Five Rings through a story thread on here and the new card game looks cool.

>White man's burden

Oooookay then.

So how 'bout them Seven Clans? And the Imperial family? Some real crazy shit there huh?
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>>52806771

>we must protect the ignorant minorities from themselves!

Who is the real racist here?
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>>52806905
>So how 'bout them Seven Clans? And the Imperial family? Some real crazy shit there huh?

I'm still emotionally processing Doji Hoturi being a grill now. I'm sad we'll lose the insane murdered unknown son, broken romance pathos he had with Kachiko before which I rather liked.

We have any official character art?
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>>52806947
I may not know much about the game, but that certainly sounds pretty damn samurai to me.
Maybe it'll still sorta come about or something?
Who knows.
As for character art, I have no clue but I haven't looked too hard yet.
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>>52806905
Idle speculation: In this timeline Bayushi Shoju never finds the prophecies.
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>>52807007
It is. She bore his son secretly and passed him off as Bayushi Shoju's, so Hoturi never knew. He just knew their romance ended abruptly and she went off to marry the Scorpion champion, and then fifteen years later killed some random young warrior in a battle with the Scorpion and suddenly his life goes to hell for mysterious reasons because Kachiko goes on a revenge bender.

Its like inverse Oedipus or something. Father murders his son and gets fucked by the mother
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>>52807057
But if the prophecies are never found.. I think I just went cross-eyed.
Hopefully this doesn't actually happen, but which clan, if any, do you speculate the devs are gonna go full-Mantis on?

>>52807075
Cherry blossoms drift
Dance and careen through the sky
Bushi path is long

I love samurai fiction.
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>>52807259
>Hopefully this doesn't actually happen, but which clan, if any, do you speculate the devs are gonna go full-Mantis on?

Most of the devs seem fond of Scorpion. I might have to switch to Lion or Crab if the Scorpion fanbase gets any worse than it already is.
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>>52806947
>We have any official character art?

Hotaru has been shown by the artist.
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>>52807075
Mark my words. Love triangle between Hotaru, Kachiko, and Toturi. Toturi knocks up Kachiko, she hides it by marrying Shoju and Hotaru kills the kid. Kachiko goes full revenge, eggs Toturi instead and makes Egg-Toturi go and brutally break up with Hotaru. In tears Hotaru kills Egg-Toturi and runs off to become the new Grey Crane instead of Toshimoko.
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>>52807351
I really hope they tone down the mystical bullshit when shugenja aren't directly involved.
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>>52807299
That kinda sucks, I like Scorpion too, but as far as my pitiful knowledge goes, I like all the clans a lot.
Found an old thread by Matsu Shao-Teng which cracked me up and I really like the Lion's bards so I lean a little that way too.

>>52807323
That looks fucking great. Except for the face.
Maybe it's just me and my total lack of visual art skills, but I can't stand
>really nice art style
>Clearly a lot of fine detail work and attention paid to most of the piece

>Fucking photoshop in a person's face

God damn it. I just.. come on. Why's it gotta be like that?

>>52807351
I don't know if that sounds awesome or horrible, but I like it.
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Anyone want to help me protest at Gencon and demand FFG give this game to the hands of Japanese designers who understand the subject matter?
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>>52807667
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>>52807323
I like that they kept the spear aspect there.
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>>52807487
>Clearly a lot of fine detail work and attention paid to most of the piece
>Fucking photoshop in a person's face.

Going off the artist's deviantart account (http://muju.deviantart.com/) it isn't photoshop. They just put a lot of work into faces.
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>>52807323
She looks like someone armed a multicolored cloud. I don't dislike it, but she looks like she's blowing away to nothing in a gust there
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>>52807755
Okay that is impressive as hell.
I still don't think it fits with the picture but that is damn good.
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>>52807783
>>52807801
I think the picture is designed for the card template to go over it. The image is pretty much designed to be a full bleed if you have seen the character template.
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>>52806771
Yeah, that's why Commodore Perry was the Hero They Needed, MacArthur, too.
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>>52807323

I like her design, but she doesn't look Japanese. Granted I'm no L5R expert, so maybe it fits.
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>>52810134
Not all japanese people look the same.
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>>52809561

I'd love to see a Post-Perry Rokugan in the new timeline though. That shit'd actually be cool.
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>>52807323
Holy fuck did they white wash this game...
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>>52810134
No one looks Japanese in L5R art. Some even look like Drow.
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>>52810400

WE WUZ SAMURAI
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>>52810144

And as long as they don't look like white people, that's OK. The less whites involved in all facets of the game (part, production, playing) the better.
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>>52810165
Rokugan Europe got fucked up by a magical plague if i'm not mistaken
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>>52810829

Good, all white people should be killed.
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>>52810859
Rokugan Rome though, is the greatest empire in the world.
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>>52810859

This, desu. Between their colonialism, racism, and greed, they're the source of literally every problem with the modern world.
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>>52810829

Nah man, timeline reboot
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>>52810919
Honestly i find it hard to believe they will ever introduce foreigners that are not just Unicorn freaks.

It's hard enough to balance 7 clans. You put the hypothetical Shadowlands/Spider Faction and Minor Clan/Mantis Faction and they have a mess in their hand.
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>>52805673
>As the industry has grown, it's worked on shedding that notion to become more inclusive, but it's far from perfect.
Yep. The modern effort to become more inclusive has been exceptionally imperfect. Especially when you go back to older materials like 40k Rogue Trader (not the FFG RPG) and see how they *just did it* without the fanfare and self congratulatory backpats.
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>>52810894

>ywn rape crane sluts with your buddies in the legion after you burn their homes and defile their civilization
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>>52810894
Why did Rokugan Rome have ghost armies that were immune to magic anyway?
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>>52810134
Shut the literal fuck up. Not all Japanese people have one facial type you fucking racist.
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>>52811606

Because bullshit. They needed an excuse for why these were a TOTALLY BADASS NEW VILLAIN THAT WAS FO SERIOUS YO.

It didn't really make much sense. Shugenja supported by the same gods throw attack spells at each other all the time and it works. As opposed to for some reason being unable to hurt the romans because their gods are also the roman gods.
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>>52811961
The Roman's Gods are the same as Rokugan's Kami.
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>>52812037

That's what I meant by 'their gods are also the roman gods'. The rokugani gods are also the rokugani gods and rokugani can zap rokugani fine
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>No Mantis
Well I guess its time to commit ritual sudoku.
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>>52812910
see
>>52792142
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>>52812926
Except I don't give a damn about 'muh weeaboo bushido idealism', I liked the lore and the personalities that came out of that clan and I'm dissapointed to see them not included.
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>>52812963
You can pretty much guarantee that they'll be in the first deluxe set after launch. Which is fitting as they didn't show up until the third or fourth expansion in Imperial. Hopefully it will be in the form of a Minor Clan Alliance, which was way cooler than the Mantis were as a Great Clan.
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>>52811606
The Yodotai were not taught magic by their gods. Instead, their ancestor spirits follow Yodotai armies lead by heroes who believe in their afterlife, and they intercept foreign magics.

If it has anything to do with their gods, then it was likely something chosen because the gods taught or saw forms of magic everywhere before they came to Yodotai lands, and decided another type of magic wasn't what they needed.
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>>52812963
>Except I don't give a damn about 'muh weeaboo bushido idealism'

Then fucking leave because that's all the setting is.
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>>52787510
It's important to note this is a game with SEVEN fucking factions. I think they did this so that you can manage to actually fucking play the game worth a shit from any faction in 1 core set. Netrunner did the same thing, it was a fucking 250+ card core set.
>>
So far the major complaints I've seen are thus.

>It's not exactly like the original!
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the AEG version become such a clusterfuck that it was almost impossible for new people to get into?

>It has dials!
That's FFG's thing, and honestly I don't see why it's such a fucking sore spot for some people.

>They've reset the fluff!
This one has some merit, but weren't people complaining the fluff just got too stupid in the later years?

>You need to buy 3 core sets to get a full playset!
Is this a legit concern? I thought playsets was a CCG thing designed to get people buying more random boosters.
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>>52813925
You can't please everyone. They're certainly appealing to a wider audience by making the changes that they did. I for one would not be playing an identical game, nor would I be happy with the shitshow that was the old lore.
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>>52813925

>Is this a legit concern? I thought playsets was a CCG thing designed to get people buying more random boosters.

For a limited card game it IS a concern. If it was a CCG, less so.

The idea behind a limited card game is you buy the set and you have all you need to play the game. It's why Netrunner got annoyed people with it's core set and then ended up changing it in future ones to give you a full playset rather than requiring multiple $60 dollar boxes to play the game.
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>>52814371

You have enough from one box to play the game, unless you think the game can only be played if you have multiple copies of cards.
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>>52813925
>It's not exactly like the original!
Eh. It's a poor argument when you take legitimate concerns and trivialise them to such an extreme. Strawmanning, even.
Without context, it does look as though they're changing it up just because. That worked so well when Ghostbusters did it.
The lack of Dragon clan consensual fucking in the missionary position for the purposes of procreation really shouldn't be their clan opening number, if anything ever. They're samurai. Part of their duty is to marry and produce two plus children for a stable birth rate. We already saw (repeatedly) how moronic this was when the Emperor and clan daimyo couldn't fuck to save their bloodlines over literal years. Bringing it back for a whole clan is poor form.

I expect similar decisions to be revealed as we go.

>It has dials!
So did the CCG.

>They've reset the fluff!
This is great. The CCG storyline was tremendously fucked when you look not where they stopped, but where the ST said they were going.

>You need to buy 3 core sets to get a full playset!
Vocal minority of complainers.
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>>52814557
>The lack of Dragon clan consensual fucking in the missionary position for the purposes of procreation really shouldn't be their clan opening number, if anything ever.

I got the impression that the lower birth rates with a problem that extended beyond the Samurai of the clan. It was a peasant thing too.
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>>52814371
But is it really a big deal? Is it really so important to have 3 of every card? I'll probably grab two core set just to have more options.

>>52814557
>dragon clan consenual fucking
Maybe a bit weird to bust out early on, but I think people are making it into something more than it really is.
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>>52814499

The issue is that card games...well, designed to work with multiple copies. Especially if it has a competitive scene.

Hence netrunner fixing the issue later on.
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>>52814788
>Maybe a bit weird to bust out early on, but I think people are making it into something more than it really is.
Could be. On the other hand, if I tell you I enjoy long walks on the beach, Starbucks coffee, and light cannibalism, would you feel the same way and gloss over it? Or would you think I probably drink coffee at Starbucks regularly?
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>>52814788
>But is it really a big deal? Is it really so important to have 3 of every card? I'll probably grab two core set just to have more options.

It's not the end of the world but it is poor design for a Limited Card game as it sorta weakens the point of a limited card game.
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>>52804954
Yes, Yasuke, though /pol/ likes to reee and claim he was just a joke the Japs kept around like a pet, he was the real deal. Slave that got left behind. Served under Nobunaga, vanished when he died. Probably died with him. It makes sense because Nobunaga was always a westaboo

Thing is the Rokugani are like, virulently anti foreign. It's one of the reason the just slightly more than and short unicorn are outcasts almost
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>>52814797

In other words, it's not a big deal if it's just casual play, and you have to pay more for competitive play. What a novel concept.
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>>52814942

Even in casual play, card games are generally designed around having playsets.

It's not the deathknell for a game but remember: Limited card games also have a much higher buy in cost and secondary markets are much less of a thing. So to buy an extra copy of one card you want, you need to buy an entire set. So it's something they should likely fix in later sets.
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>>52814867
>limited card game
Fist off. LCG = Living card game. Second. It really doesn't. A trio of core sets is only 120. Little over the cost of a single booster box of MTG. A box which might not have a single playset of cards in it.
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>>52814915
>It's one of the reason the just slightly more than and short unicorn are outcasts almost

I feel like some words are missing there, as I'm not parsing it.
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>>52814984

>Second. It really doesn't.

Then why did Netrunner change it's system to give you full playsets?
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>>52805673
The problem with Wick and his flunkies wasn't the cultural appropriation, it was how Jesus fucking ignorant and WRONG they were, and any one who pointed out how dumb the setting was because of Wicks hamfisting of Japanese culture got shouted down with "ITS NOT ROKUGAN ITS JAPAN"

L5R IS slightly racist, in that it's a collection of ignorant stereotypes cobbled together by a stupid white guy who thought he knew a lot more than what he did, with none of.the context or nuance that explains the cliches in real life. This is why the setting always comes off as stupid, self conflicting, and nonsensical - they took a bunch of ideas that amounted to rule of cool and tried to to build a nuanced setting with political intruige out of it. So you have these Poe faced deadly serious samurai trying to deal dramatically with the most hilariously innacurrate misinterpretation of actual asian culture since Steven Seagall
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>>52814984

>Fist off. LCG = Living card game.

Yeah, sorry. I keep messing that one up as I was first introduced at the club to them as limited card games and it's stuck despite it not being the right term.

Mind you, if someone other than FFG starts using the distribution model we might need a new term. As they actually trademarked it so other companies can't use it.
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>>52815020
What the fuck are you on about?

I've been playing netrunner since core and I legitimately have no idea what you mean by this. In most of the FFG games you need to buy multiple cores, but all of the expansions have been full playsets. Every other game. The reason core sets don't have a full playset is the same reason it's only 40 bucks. Cheap enough to get people interested and also provide a full game for the casual audience.
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>>52815020
It did no such thing. When you buy core set now you still get 1 copy of pawn shop - what are you talkin about sempai ? AGoT did that - FFG started with expansions with no full set and then decided to go max number of cards in each expansions. Are you a buster nigger ?
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>>52814864
Hey man, some people enjoy kale and others enjoy a nice snack of fingers. Who am I to judge?

I just think it's a bit of fluff that people are really clinging to to try and go "See? It's shiiiiiiit!" like they suddenly said "Oh and now the Emperor is a middle aged white tranny who has been playong Rokugan for fools this whole time."
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>>52814915
>Thing is the Rokugani are like, virulently anti foreign.
Officially this is the truth. No one wants to be publicly seen to go against the dictates of any emperor, and there's a long list of emperors.

In practice, it's not really the case. The Phoenix have their village of Yobanjin half-castes, the Crane traded with the Yobanjin when given half a chance, the Dragon and Unicorn had relations with the Naga. The Tortoise and Mantis both had extensive foreign contact. The Dragon set up shop in Medinat al-Salaam. Scorpion and Unicorn likewise maintained some contact with the peoples of the Burning Sands. It just goes on and on and on, with even the Emerald Magistrate Charter - their official writ of law and guidance - saying that any foreigner could speak with their magistrates about official travel papers.

So, like most things Rokugani, if you accept what you read at face value, you get a very different concept than what is actually practised.
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>"Oh and now the Emperor is a middle aged white tranny who has been playong Rokugan for fools this whole time."
Shit! Steve, get them to change that before the big reveal!
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>>52815258
Nezumi and Naga aren't considered foreign by Rokugan. Strange and potentially dangerous, sometimes mistaken for oni or other monsters, but not foreign. If they can prove themselves honorabru (Or at least more convenient to ignore or work with than drive away), they can find a place in Rokugan.
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>>52815311
Same with Kenku/Tengu, although they're guaranteed a remote place in the empire without having to prove themselves individually due to events in the founding years.
The Kitsu would too if they hadn't been wiped/bred out.
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>>52815258

Writing prompt: every hypocrite in Rokugan suddenly dies.
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>>52815345
Isolated middle-of-nowhere peasant farmers inherit the earth.
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>>52815311
>Nezumi and Naga aren't considered foreign by Rokugan
Yeah they are. Outside the Crab, Nezumi have long been considered vermin at best. Naga are literally a foreign civilisation that hasn't been present for most of Rokugani history, and it took Mirumoto Daini getting his Captain Kirk wet to change views when they woke.

>If they can prove themselves honorabru (Or at least more convenient to ignore or work with than drive away), they can find a place in Rokugan.
Same stands for other gaijin. See also; Yoritomo Singh, Ivory Kingdoms Kshatriya and Gurus, etc.

And those are just people from somewhere else. Even the Lost, antithetical to the existence of the Empire by way of Jigoku's control, and The Enemy of a thousand years, have been given chance after chance. The Crane literally smuggled anyone who seemed repentant around the Crab and into the empire - that's how the Spider got their break. Daigotsu Soetsu was, if I recall correctly, taken to imperial court. Mirumoto Whatshisname (the one that became a spider, literally) was sent as a diplomat to the City Of The Lost.
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>>52815366
Suzume happy dance time. Five minutes before we go back to dirt farming.
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>>52815458
>Yeah they are. Outside the Crab, Nezumi have long been considered vermin at best.
But not foreign vermin. The Crab let them hang around because they're native. And the Naga were accepted once the Rokugani figured out that they came from within and not from without.
It's literally all about where a thing is from. There are less social hurdles for a native non-human than a foreign human. I would imagine that foreign non-humans would have it even harder.
>>
yall got any more of those playtester spolers
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>>52815630
The same thing happened with the Unicorn. The Crab were all geared up to march north and roflstomp the force that bypassed their defenses to salvage their own honor, until it turned out that said force was actually from Rokugan. They immediately dropped the issue, because being beaten by another clan isn't a huge deal compared to letting officially branded foreigners through. Nothing changed about the fact that they got beat, it just didn't matter anymore.
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>>52815630
>The Crab let them hang around because they're native.
No. The Crab let them hang around because they're useful, impossible to taint, and not naturally hostile.

>And the Naga were accepted once the Rokugani figured out that they came from within and not from without.
Again, nothing to do with it.
>During the Clan War, sometime before the Battle of Beiden Pass in 1127, the awakened Naga were approached by humans. Through the use of their Pearl Magic, the Naga were able to communicate with the samurai. Their leader, Mirumoto Daini, explained that he had been sent by his leader Toturi to ask for aid from the Naga in defeating the Foul and the Crab Clan who had allied with them. The Naga agreed to join forces with Toturi, in exchange for the Black Lion's promise that he would not seek to take the Emerald Throne for himself.

Guess how long that lasted? Rokugan still wasn't on board with Naga love until Doji Shizue (2e ST self-insert) told their story. Nor was there a long wait before the Crab found reason to attack the Naga, Hitomi tattooed one of their kind and caused a war, etc. There's no overarching Rokugani love for snek people who live in the same place they do, because they live in the same place they do.

>>52815708
>The Crab were all geared up to march north and roflstomp the force that bypassed their defenses to salvage their own honor
Nah mate. The Crab couldn't give a fuck about honour; their thing was duty and the possibility they had let a shadowlands army past the wall. Once that was clearly not the case, they were satisfied with returning to their actual duties.
>The Crab, finally satisfied that the Unicorn were not an invading Shadowlands army, merely returned to the Wall.
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>>52815919
>There's no overarching Rokugani love for snek people who live in the same place they do, because they live in the same place they do.
Of course not, because they're still xenophobic.
But if the Naga had come from anywhere outside of Rokugan, they wouldn't have even been considered as potential allies. Something from beyond Rokugan is always looked at worse than something related to Rokugan and within it. Entire non-human races are considered allies to at least some of Rokugan for most of its history. Gaijin have to prove themselves individually and still get a huge amount of suspicion until they go through all the hoops to be considered legally and spiritually part of Rokugan. And even then, they're still looked at funny.
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>>52815919
>Nah mate. The Crab couldn't give a fuck about honour; their thing was duty and the possibility they had let a shadowlands army past the wall. Once that was clearly not the case, they were satisfied with returning to their actual duties.
The actual sources, as in, the actual books and not the wiki, make it pretty clear that the Crab were worried about their honor. Because even the less honorable clans in Rokugan care about their public face. The fact that it was another clan and not an actual invasion gave them an excuse to write it off as nothing important, which was an opportunity they took to save face.
>>
I hope that in new timeline there will be no place for mantis and spider - moron cash grab clans out of stinky hairy ass
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>>52816015
>The actual sources, as in, the actual books and not the wiki, make it pretty clear that the Crab were worried about their honor.
Not in the sense you're applying it. They're not the Lion. Even if individual samurai were shamed by their losses to the point of seppuku, the clan as a whole DGAF. Within two years it's entirely turned around.

>817: With the coming of spring, the Crab and Crane are among the frst to send ambassadors to the Unicorn, and the clans forge friendships which will last for generations.
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>>52815969
>But if the Naga had come from anywhere outside of Rokugan, they wouldn't have even been considered as potential allies.
The problem with saying that is it's not true, given the few relevant examples available - which I've already mentioned. The clans do work with the Yobanjin. Samurai in the colonies do ally with the remnants of the Ivory Kingdoms.
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>>52815065
They did, it's called ECG for AEG.
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>>52815065
Companies can't use LCG but players do because it makes the most sense.
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>>52792142
I like Mantis because they have ships. I like ships.
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>>52816092
As someone who knows nothing about L5R but is seriously considering buying not this reboot, how do Spider and Mantis fit into the picture?
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>>52818221
The Spider were basically a case of "bad guys teaming up with good guys to kill worse guys" that ended up being a clan full of Mary Sues that could due no wrong

Mantis aren't as bad but old school players don't like them. They're basically turbojews that sailed around on ships and stealth archers. Think pirates that had a """"""legitimate"""""" business on the side. They earned the trust of Rokugan by doing some serious shit
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So, you guys aware of this? Designer Preview of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC_IZqqcxxI
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As long as they give us a fixed version of this I'm a happy Unicorn
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>>52818311
The reason why people don't like the Mantis is that it gobbled up a bunch of minor clans when it became a great clan and basically homogenized them into being "Yoritomo, but with [gimmick]". The Tsuruchi are now just Yoritomo, but with good archers. The Kitsune are Yoritomo, but with nature magic. Even the art just makes them all wear Yoritomo green. It's not cool for people who liked those clans as they were before.
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Did people not like the Mantis too because their gimmick is basically pew-pew RA spam?
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>>52819686
In late diamond they had the ridiculous Raid mechanic that gave them a special attack phase that didn't bow pirates. If you dared defend they'd get their naval invasion first action to kill all your shit with actions like Blackened Skies that them do all their ranged attacks in one action. Then they'd get their normal attack to kill your provinces.

I was so glad when that shit went away as it was tied to one stronghold.
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>>52819747
Thanks. I wasn't playing when Diamond was released by the way and only got interested again when Ivory came around.
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>>52814557
You really think the low dragon birth rates have a non mystical reason for it? oh anon
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>>52817889
Crab, Phoenix, and Crane all have sizable navies that are basically worthless because the Lion, Unicorn, Scorp, and Dragon are landlocked so you can't use boats against them.
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>>52819659
The reason *I* don't like the Mantis is because they gained great clan status after Yoritomo threatened to join the Shadowlands if he didn't get his way. AND OF COURSE YORITOMO IS SO IMPORTANT AND SPECIAL OF COURSE, HOW COULD THE EMPEROR SAY NO?

Similarly, everything *else* about the Mantis ignores Bushido, Etiquette, and Bureaucracy - things that are important to the setting.
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My Unicorn dynasty deck wears these sleeves

Sorry I just like the Mongol horde theme too much
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>>52819875
And yet, for some fucking reason, the Mantits were the ones "protecting the Emperor's seas!"
It's just cringey as shit sometimes.
Like>>52819909 points out, and a few others have, but in my opinion haven't gone far enough the Mantis go against the entire way of fucking life all Rokugani non-worthless scum adhere to.
Mercantile operation is filthy. To the point where even the Yasuki, a family who almost solely exists to handle the Crane's market deals, particularly the black market (and then, yes they leave for the Crab, sparking a goddamn war) have a separate class of merchant-heimin to handle the actual money exchanges so they don't stain their honour.
And yet, the Mantis are somehow able to carve out enough of a trade route in between the three groups with navies that half the time just sit around picking their nose and looking for fights that Yoritomo can use trade embargo similar to the fucking Crane.
HWHAT?

Somehow, they're also able to poke at the real Great Clans with Greyjoy-style faggoty-ass raids (that's another bunch of bullshit but wrong thread) which the Great Clans are somehow TOTALLY UNABLE TO RETALIATE FOR because a Great Clan's retaliation would just smush them like the fucking bugs they represent, and so goes against the big 3 ways of life.

All that said, I actually like the Mantis as a minor clan on their island type of deal, I just don't like how ham-fisted stuff was.
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>>52820103
It's kinda funny how the only clan whom they actually could embargo and have a real effect (The Crab) is also the only clan they won't embargo because they're the best business partners they ever had, thanks to the Crab going the sea route every time the Crane get pissy about food trading (Which is all the time). There are multiple eras where the Crab need food and the Mantis set good prices for them, even when the Mantis were a minor clan.
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Sorry if this was already asked:
Does anybody have the pdf for the free edition that AEG released at some point?
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>>52819495
Their comments around 13-14 minutes in make me suspect Enlightenment is gone as a win condition, since they were talking about how the games they found could devolve into two players trying each for a win condition the other can't really reasonably interfere with. I think it might have been cut just to simplify win mechanics and interactions
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>>52820141
You're right, it is pretty funny. It wouldn't ever have happened though, because >lol fuk da Crane, Mantis 4 lyfe yo!
Even though Crane & Crab both ought to have been equally important to the Mantis people. Maybe not equally, since they probably care a bit more for the dudes protecting Rokugan from teh Shadowlands, but Crane politics didn't seem to hurt the Mantis much. Which bugs me, because that tends to be what the Crane do. That, and iajutsu you to dishonour.
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>>52820103
The Mantis naval raids without retaliation I will admit is/was kind of cheesy and silly from a lore perspective.

What I don't accept is the autismo screeching about the game being 100% only about bushido adherence without question and nothing else because it would make the setting boring and dry as fuck as well as leave out the possibility for any other story being told in this setting.
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>>52820352
>What I don't accept is the autismo screeching about the game being 100% only about bushido adherence

No. Shut up. The point of Samurai Drama is that it matters when a Samurai makes a decision that tarnishes his honor. His choice to go against Bushido is a source of conflict in his life. Scorp have the problem where they just don't care about most of Bushido, but at least they put on a public face about it and play the part. Crab, despite their fanbase screaming "muh wall" at the top of their lungs, ALSO cares about Bushido a lot, even if they find it necessary to neglect courtesy in court occasionally.

Mantis... don't give a fuck. That's the problem. There is not a single honorable quality about Yoritomo or his family. They were warriors for hire as a Minor Clan, and they became a Major Clan specifically because they rejected Duty. Then their courtier schools don't give a shit about etiquette (as their gimmick no less), and everything about them screams snowflake bullshit - like their primary weapon being twin kama for some fucking reason? Because it makes them look like a Mantis I guess???
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>>52820431
Where on the doll did Yoritomo touch you anon?
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>>52820462
Not Yoritomo. I'm relatively new to the L5R scene (started when the buyout was announced) and I have been butting heads against the thin-skinned old-guard ever since. I hate them so much.
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>>52820492
A fairly large portion of the old guard feel similarly about the Mantis. In a couple of groups they are outright gleeful that the Mantis and especially the Spider are out.

That said, Clan Partisans gonna Partisan. L5R inspires high loyalty to your clan.
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>>52820492
>I have been butting heads against the thin-skinned old-guard ever since.

Wow, I'm far more used to this kind of anti-ma butthurt from the really old rpgers, not brand new newbs. Tell me anon, were you introduced to the game by the groggiest of grogs to ever roll and keep a d10?
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>>52820567
No. I got into it as a kid by myself but dropped it until the buyout. I just really hate the *era of mortals* bullshit that the Yoritomo are a symptom of.
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>>52820352
I disagree, though not entirely. The setting needs, and indeed has, characters of imperfect standing, code and etiquette, as that forms the basis of samurai drama- the inability of any person to perfectly embody all of those things, and how one must deal with an imperfect world through the lens of Bushido and all that it requires.
>>52820431 sort of makes the point. While other clans may reject or ignore parts of the code, it is often out of necessity or because they truly believe in a divergent path. Whereas the Mantis spit on it.

I don't want to get stupid about it, but I suppose one way to look at it is that the Mantis are Westerners. They care about and use capitalism rather than Bushido. They have no honour, do not respect their duty and their etiquette is non-existent in most cases. They are not samurai. They are heinin in armour they do not deserve, wielding daisho which ought to be taken from them. Which sort of reflects their choice of weaponry too. They don't deserve the twin swords. So they don't use the twin swords.

Again, I still like the Mantis. They can be fun and interesting. Add a lot of nuance to roleplaying. But like the Spider, they were handled atrociously and dishonour us all with their state as a Great Clan.
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>>52820492
I think you might be overselling how little they care about honor. In the RPG their honor is a bit lower than the normal expectation but isn't absolute shit and I think that the clan cares a lot about personal courage and duty, but with a Mantis first attitude inculcated by years of being an underdog.

I am sad they're gone but I'm sure Yoritomo and his sailmurai will be back eventually, but in the meantime it isn't like we don't have a ton of cool other shit to focus on. I've never been into a CCG or LCG before but am definitely thinking about picking one box of this up and trying to goad some friends into playing. If each clan has a full deck in the set it should be pretty easy to get a few people in with just one set, if not on a competitive level.
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>>52820604
I'm planning to do pretty much the same. I've infested enough of my friends with my weebery that they're interested in trying it out. Only problem I see is lack of inherent multiplayer. I know my friends are going to want to somehow attempt a seven player game at some point.

Also calling this now, Rokugan Diplomacy rip-off by 2020. Should be sooner, unless FFG really has their head up their ass/goes full ADHD.
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>>52820604
Just like with Netrunner and aGoT, they probably have a bunch of neutral cards shared among the Clans. The box is likely set for a 2 player game, which means 2 viable decks.
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>>52820603
Curious. How would you do the Spider Clan?
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>>52820660
According to the AMA on reddit a deck is 40-45 cards, the core set is going to have 250+ cards, and each of the seven GC will have a full deck representing them inside.

I think there might be less generic shared cards than you think.
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>>52820649
>Implying Diplomacy has enough fiddly bits for FFG

Naga please, they are gonna go full Twilight Imperium for their board game. That shit will be cash.
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>>52820703
I wouldn't, the Spider just shit all over the underlying metaphysics of the setting too much. Just keep the old Horde. Have themes in it like Undead (Dark Moto and Akutenshi), Oni, Ogres, and Trolls (big guys for you), and goblins and shadowlands madmen (lots of weenies).
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>>52820788
But they don't interact with honor/dishonor victory (logically at least), which shits on the *game* part of things.
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>>52820703
Not him, but I would have continued their early model. A conspiracy, basically, that pretends to be a clan while gathering public support and fresh allies by helping peasants (Usually violently, by removing bandits) and recruiting any ronin who wants to tag along and have a real place to belong. Their end game would still be to gain recognition as a "real" clan, but they'd be much more subtle about it. Why openly taint everything and get caught when you can do a few good deeds (And satisfy your violent urges), maybe drop a little blackmail and assassination, and get the same end results?

This also opens the door for some nice drama when genuinely honorable and good ronin find out that the group they swore fealty to isn't as good as they thought it was. There might also be some tainted guys who are trying their best to come back from the brink. Their success rate would be very, very low, of course.

If I were actually writing them, I'd probably have this go on for a few years and have things start to boil over as some important people decide to back them, while others want to exploit this new faction, and others still just don't trust the supposedly benign otodake that suddenly popped up.
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>>52820717
Maybe, Netrunner is also a 45 card deck, with 252 holding space for 7 factions. aGoT was a bit different, in aGoT you picked a House and then a banner. Which basically meant 2 Houses to form a deck.
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>>52820810
It shouldn't be a normal player faction.

They should do something like the old WoW CCG Raid Decks where the players fight a Shadowlands deck in a coop/competitive game.

A Day of Thunder Deluxe Box set up like that would be pretty cool. The first half of the game would be coop where the Clan players have to defeat enough shadowlands guys to force a confrontation with Fu-Daddy, then the competitive element kicks in over who gets the honor of the killing the Dark Lord of Jigoku.
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>>52820703
Me personally? It depends on card game or roleplaying. I wouldn't ever make them a clan. There already were Bloodspeakers and Kolat and a dozen other sekrit klubz going on.
That said, card game: they either don't exist or are their own full-sized parallel expansion like Hordes is for Warmachine. Follow a lot of what >>52820788 said, there's enough of a divergence for several different decks if you so desire. You could also go with dual faction cards (Scorpion-Horde, Horde-Crab, etc.) sort of extrapolating off of >>52820832, but I think that'll get really messing and stupid unless done really, really well.

Roleplaying wise? They're another zupahh zekrit klub nyeh nyeh nyeh. You can get bonuses and skills and things, but you have to try to hide your Taint from the outside world. Then you can also have stories of samurai born Tainted and searching for redemption, those who succumb to the Taint and must flee Rokugan, Jade Magistrates not far behind, and then even further, it's possible to have a group of Tainted wander the Shadowlands, trying not to die, maybe establish some base, or get to the old Hiruma castle and see what the fuck's up there.

>>52820876
Just saw this one. Could also be an Archenemy style deck, where it's sort of one player against however many clans made it to Fu Leng/Hurruma/etc.
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>>52820747
They did fuck with Dip for the GoT board game. So I would like to change my prediction to them just changing the board and art for that and making the Wildlings=Horde.
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>>52820717
I'm guessing between 25 and 30 cards per clan, tending to 30, the rest being neutrals in the core set

The math would make sense

with 25 clan cards, you have 75 neutrals to pick from, so you'd even have enough cards for 3 decks

with 30 clan cards, you have 40 neutrals, enough for two decks of 40-45 and some spares

Personally guessing for 28 or 29 per clan
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>>52821576
The other thing to consider is you have 2 decks per player. So really each player needs 80-90 cards. If you were able to use every card you could get three decks with 10 cards left in the box. I'm guessing you'll be able to pull two marginally functional decks together. FFG has said you need three boxes for a full playset of everything but you can be competitive with two.
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>>52820788
I wouldn't even bring Horde back. If you want to play SLH, play corrupt.

>>52820832
Pretending to be a clan is pretty silly, as is getting to be a clan without dropping the villain stuff along the way.
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Aww yeah fluff reboot. Now all the lore turboautists can get fucked and we can get a setting that makes sense.
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>>52821707
Didn't consider that, thought the main deck of 40-45 was to be split into the two board decks

Then again, haven't played a proper card game since the original Pokémon TCG run

Not counting poker and it's derivatives
Or Exploding Kittens, if you can count that
Or Heartstone, if you can count that
Or Gwent, if you can count that

Just realized I've played quite a few, it seems

Probably just not used to this vocabulary
>>
Could someone please explain to me the difference betwen a living card game and a collectable card game? I'm not seeing much difference beside the name
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>>52822569

CCGs usually opereate on random booster packs. LCG releases have full playsets of all the cards in the release.
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>>52822605
So the lcg packs list what's in them and are not random?
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>>52822605
This is the core of it. FFG's starter boxes don't have full playsets, you normally have to buy 2-3 boxes for full playsets. Expansions do have full playsets though. FFG's living games tend to have a faster release schedule than most CCGs but those releases are also much smaller in terms of number of cards.
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>>52822688
Yep, no hunting for chase rares and the like. Though there might be promos in games from cons and organized play.
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>>52822709
Thanks for the explanation anon.
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Hopefully before this falls off the board, what's your favourite clan or clans and why?
I like the Lion because of Matsu Shao-Teng.
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>>52825855
Lion because Toturi and Tacticians
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>>52825917
Hell yeah Lionbro.
I haven't played the game at all, but I'm quite looking forward to the new one.

Would you (or anyone else) mind breaking down what the clans were good at in the old game?
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>>52826052
Not that anon but:
I think there was generally about 2 of the 4 old victory viable for each clan (military, honor, dishonor, enlightenment). But then again, I always theory-crafted and never played because I am and have been poor and without friends who would like the game
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>>52826052
Sure thing...

Crab - Big Beatsticks and Defensive traits. Though they did have a neat period where their schtick was a trait that triggered on their death that potentially let them take opponents down with them.

Crane - Honor running, dueling, and stalling. These were the core playstyles for Crane through much of their history.

Dragon - Enlightment and Dueling. The Dragon had the most consistent Enlightenment decks over the years. They also had a 2 turn win deck that was in Standard Rotation for awhile, but it required like 6 fate cards and a boxable personality to show up in your starting hand, I actually had it pop against me once.

Lion - Tacticians and Followers. The Lion also had a lot of built in force bonuses. Their high median personal honor allowed them to also run good Honor/Military switch decks where they'd blitz early and then sit and honor out.

Mantis - Ranged Attacks and Economic Control. They also had a strong Magistrate theme for much of their history.

Phoenix - Shugenja and magic tricks. I had seen a few Phoenix enlightenment decks but they were way rarer than Dragon ones.

Scorpion - Dishonor and out of battle P-Kill. Ninja tricks and dishonor on you and your cow. It was funny watching high end Honor and Dishonor decks slap fight each other and hover near starting honor.

Shadowlands - Big Beatsticks and Fear. They also had a bit of dead personality manipulation. I did run a funny alt win condition Shadowlands deck back in Jade based around Master of the Five and the Elemental Terrors. I even pulled it off a couple times at kotei. I never made it out of swiss with it though.

Unicorn - Cavalry, Switch, and Tacticians. The ponies were the classic Honor/Military switch hitters. They were my favorite for most the time I played. Their superior economy also let them run more of the better items. Their tacticians weren't as good as Lion ones but were about as numerous.
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>>52825855

Scorpion, because they have the most interesting leaders (Nitoshi aside) and Byronic Heroes are my jam (mildly redundant, admittedly).
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>>52825855
I was a Shadowlands and Unicorn player for most of time in the CCG.

The Shadowlands because I liked fielding the big scary monsters. The 'corn because I liked the mongol theme and cav was fun to mess with.

In the RPG I mostly played Lion and Scorpion.

My longest played character was a Scorpion took advantage of the Junshin stereotype and pretended to be honorable until it actually got in the way of getting shit done. He actually had enough of a reputation that he fooled a significant portion of his own clan on the score. Anyone that worked directly with him was quickly disabused of the notion, but it did lead to some funny interactions where contacts in the clan were like, "Great I have to deal with this idiot."

My Lion never tended to stay around long, mostly because games I'd play them in would disintegrate quickly. Such is the life of trying to play online.
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>>52826243
Been there, it sucks. Hope it changes anon.

>>52826314
Thanks! I wonder if FFG will stick to the same - although there's been speculation about doing away with Enlightenment. Wonder what'll happen to Dragon if they no longer have that as a pursuit. Maybe they'll just go honour victory. Seem less cool though.

I probably would have played Lion or Unicorn had I found the game then. Or I can not lie to myself and you and admit I probably would have tried to play every clan ever.
Scorpion vs Honour decks sound like a cripple fight.

>>52826417
Byronic Heroes make for some excellent stories. Or horrible cringe. Often both at once.


>>52826503
Big monsters and cavalry are both pretty damn awesome.
As does your Scorpion, I was actually theory-crafting a character along those lines For the game I'll never get to play. Fuck, why can't people like what I like more?
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>>52827692
To a degree every Scorpion should act like that outside of the few whose job it is to twirl mustaches and chew up the scenery like a hammy supervillain as a distraction while the real operatives get the job done. It is just the Scorpion, much like the Rogue class in D&D attracts the breed of player that likes to make dick-ass thieves.
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>>52826314
>Dragon - Enlightment and Dueling
I miss Dragon Ring Honour. The only time I was actually competitive.
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>>52828279
Yeah, the (admittedly little) I've read seems to impress on the reader that, whilst the Scorpion are TEH BAD GUIZ they're still, y'know, a group of people able to function alongside the rest of the Empire and not such colossal dicklords that there's no way even Rokugani levels of wilful ignorance could account for their continued existence. But morons are gonna be morons.

>>52828303
Dragon Ring Honour. I have images of tattooed men and women in Luchadore masks. Was it this awesome?
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>>52828303
Pre-Errata FETA was wicked. There was some kiho that you switch rings and before it was errata'd the new ring still counted for Enlightenment so you'd just swap in what you couldn't get in. It was convoluted and required a lot of skill to run well but seeing it run was pretty cool.
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>>52828511

>FETA
>Skill to run

Lel. At least Master of Five made you wait a turn.
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>>52822709
Promos, at least from OP kits, are always just alt art at that
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>>52828397
>Dragon Ring Honour. I have images of tattooed men and women in Luchadore masks. Was it this awesome?
Not exactly, though I never really 'got' the whole Luchadore thing.
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Big question is can L5R avoid the fate of netrunner (turning into spaz nerd game that everyone playing casualy backed from and torunament scean is copy pase jinteki net decks)
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>>52830902
>Can you prevent net decking

The answer is always no
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>>52827692
Thanks for the kind words, anon. Maybe if I get a Pen&Paper group going in my current city, I will get L5R to the table.

>>52830902
What does this sentence even mean? Are you against casuals or against grognards?
Because my problem was that I hate netdecking and that there was really only so few meta-competetive decks, I felt.
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>>52831047
>What does this sentence even mean? Are you against casuals or against grognards?
Why are you trying to reduce what they said? It's not "against" anyone, but the situation where the casual scene fell out and the tournament scene lost its creativity.
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>>52831154
Exactly this - and all this done by this idiot Damon or something like that. Project Temujin insta inc in every deck - gr8 design bro - have a watermelon ...




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