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Hoping "Imperial Agents and SOB" team is good edition
Last thread:
>>52799772

>Shadow War: Armageddon Free Faction Rules:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf

>Rules Archive:
https://mega.nz/#F!mUtQAAxS!1fjZcUJ94veAvCRBREeifw

>[removed]77 pages of rules: some pages missing bottom part, check archive.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xvgryrNiMFoLYiaX8o6Y-Q0q1GLRvwWnvbrSL7omZXo/edit?usp=sharing
>>
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>>52814166

1st for Da Boyz
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Anyone play with the Nid warrior list? Debating on starting them or genestealers.
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>>52814449
Warriors are fucking retarded powerful, cults is mid teir
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>>52814449
Genestealers all the way you get the most guys minus Orks, 3 specialists, and Webbers!
My Neophyte Leader has a Bolt pistol and chainsword, 3A +1CS on the charge, Parry, and once he gets his first 2/3 advancements he is a fucker to deal with, killed a Troupe Master and a Mime before the Virtuoso took him out.
>>
Any recommendations on centering the drill for pewter gun barrels? And should lasguns be drilled, or just have the little nub painted red like a light bulb?
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>>52814656
light bulb is what I do
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>>52814656
>>52814716
either is a good option imo, when "primed" lasguns have the glow, when they're just chilling they're just a normal gun barrel
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>>52814656

I use the pointy end of a round file to leave a center mark for the drill bit to catch in.
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>>52814656
A needle pin to make a guide mark for the drill bit is what I do. Much easier to center a needle point. Then you let the drill "find" the pin hole.
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>>52814811
Just eyeball the center? I also have a lot of bolters to do.
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>>52814656
Don't drill las. Do lightbulb.
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>>52814772
You got a picture of the muzzle of an inactive lasgun?
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>>52814904

Yeah, just drag the pin/whatever until it looks centered, double check, then press to make the mark, then remove the pin and triple check. If you are off a bit just do it again and press harder to make the second guide hole deeper.
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>>52815000
This. Make the mark just slight at first and once you're satisfied with its placement you can make the mark slightly deeper.
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>>52814449
Warriors are definitely on the upper end of the power curve, but a single really bad game can end it for them quickly. Like, a Scavenge mission and they keep getting taken by the mutant.
Nothing you can do about bad dice, but something like that can put them behind tremendously on points.
>>
What units can I take for a Tau list ?
I'm fairly new to SW:A and the 40k TT so please don't bully if I ask stupid question
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>>52816021
Pathfinders, Drones
Sometimes a stealthsuit
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>>52816105
Okay thank you
I downloaded the PDF
What Tier are Tau ?
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>>52816150
The game is like a week old, just chill out and play if you want
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>>52816158
okay !!
What are you playing ?
>>
How far would I get with one box of Tyranid warriors? I'm considering getting them as my second team, but I'd have to start from scratch since I don't own Tyranids. Is a box of warriors going to last me a while? Those of you who have played Tyranids in swag games, what's your take?
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>>52816194
Not that anon, but I play guard, and considering I've read through every thread about SWA here I'd say every faction is being played and players of each faction have commented that they're having fun and that it's fairly balanced. Most people complaining about balance haven't played enough games, use faulty tactics, have a bad terrain setup, or are just theory crafters. So you should pick whatever team you like, visually and gameplaywise. If you learn the game, and play enough you'll find that it's a good game.
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>>52816262
>visually and gameplaywise
Dont forget fluff, anon! Best reason to pick an army.
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>>52816262
Okay then
I'll just my Tau because I already have miniature painted for them
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>>52816299
Agreed. If you like the fluff you might even have fun losing with your preferred team.
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>>52816332
That's a good plan. And if you later feel like an other team looks fun it's pretty easy to expand into that since you only need a box to get started.
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>>52816332
I witnessed a game of Tau vs Chaos Space Marines yesterday, and it was really tight. A lot of fun things happened as well. A Tau sniper fell two levels from a structure, took a S10 hit and ended up pinned with a fleshwound.

>"I'm ok! I'm ok! Just scraped my knee a bit!"
>>
>>52814393
How would it work just taking Shadow War's rules and using them for the equal of a 1,000 point game and not giving a damn about its special reinforcement and shit rules?

Or would I just be better off printing off copies of 2e.
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>>52816421

It would be tedious.

It would be extra tedious if you actually used the amount of terrain you need to make Necro rules fun.
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>>52812137
seems decent , i'dd scrounge up some extra points to get your mining laser a photovisor though
just turn one of those hybrids into a recruit et voila
alternatively turn two into recruits and you can buy a clip harness to which is even more usefull for genestealers since you can deploy in hiding and thus take the high ground without getting alpha striked off turn 1
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>>52816215
You'll want minimum 2 boxes. 3 total Warriors from 1 box is not enough Scything Talons nor enough bodies once you get past your first game. Additionally, if you get more than 1 Gun Beast and want them both to have Venom Cannons, you'd need that second box.
If you want to go full WYSIWYG then you'll need a lot more weapons as well.
>>
>>52816652
>If you want to go full WYSIWYG

Quick reminder that the WYSIWYG is in the ruleboook as a rule. So not a guideline, it's an actual rule.

You can always house rule it, just saying that the default position on the subject is WYSIWYG
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>>52816700
Does that only go for weapons, or does it extend to armor and gadgets like photovisors and red dot sights and stuff? GW don't even have any bits for a lot of that stuff.
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>>52816652
But according to the webpage the box contains enough scything talons and everything I need to make three warriors. How do you mean there's not enough scything talons? There are six scything talons in the box as far as I can tell. Also six boneswords and so on.


>>52816700
Yeah, the wysiwyg rule is one of the things that I like about Necromunda/Swag. It encourages you to put more love into your miniatures.
>>
>>52816700
I'm usually a wysiwyg fag when it comes to skirmishes, but damn. Warriors are just too fucking expensive for that.
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>>52816752
I think only grenades are exempt but I don't the rulebook on hand to check that.

Upgrades are faily easy to do, and I noticed that factions without scoped rifles/guns don't have access to scopes for instance.

Although I'm building Skittles, which is super easy for upgrades since I'll just paint the lenses of the guys with the visors in a different colour or something like that.
>>
>>52816752
It's mostly weapons (apart from knives and grenades that the miniature can have stuffed down pockets or boots). But it depends on how anal your local group is. One could argue that camo gear is always a chameleon cloak for example. Personally I think it's fun to try and get all the stuff that I can on my miniatures. Does it have a scope on the weapon? I'll put a scope on the mini then. Red dot? Sure. I'll glue a small thing under the weapon and paint the end red. You can do a lot with greenstuff or greystuff, depending on your patience. Most things are fairly easy to do.
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>>52816753
Your melee bugs are going to want double talons. That's four per bug.
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>>52816756
Just duplicate the bits you need with oyumaru and putty.
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>>52816777
Yeah ok. So there's basically one pair too few of the talons. I get it.
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Are the hiveguard and warrior boxes compatible? Using a hiveguard for the gunbeasts might be cool imo.
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>>52816777
Ok, trying to figure out if I can still make a good team from just one box.

Why do I want four talons on one nid rather than two talons and two boneswords?
>>
So now do I have a reason to start using my kasrkin models since guard lasguns can be upgraded to hot shot?
>>
My bits came in today so I built my Chaos warband. Really happy with these dudes.
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>>52816851
Well, you'll want two boxes because you'll end up with five warriors in the end.

Scything talons are great when paired, but weak as a second weapon. You get an extra attack die but the trade off of having half your attacks come in at their inferior profile isn't where you want to end up. Honestly, if you're swinging bone swords you're going to murder anything short of a solitaire anyway. I'm running 3 swords and a lash and it's absurd overkill. I'll never use all my parries thanks to the whip. Weapon skill 5 makes it very unlikely to lose melee, especially since not much can get the charge off on you.

My alpha has t5 and a 4++ in melee. If he gets there, you lose.

If you're kitting out someone for less points, double talons is pro. Skill 6 is very hard to beat but you're more susceptible to bad dice.
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>>52816901

you used, Z, right?
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>>52816864
yes
but hot shot lasguns are hot shit
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Other than needing an extra coat of matte I think my dudes are ready for their debut on Saturday.
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>>52817013
Probably should have posted my picture.
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>>52817022
and now the correct way up and smaller.
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>>52817052
Getting tyranids to look the correct amount of moist is hard.
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>>52817074
Glossy varnish. If I ever get Tyranids for this I'll be painting them in a dark greenish scheme and fucking dip them in gloss varnish. Aliens-style.
>>
>>52816700
Not every campaign/league is going to enforce WYSIWYG. That would put off newcomers super hard. Maybe veterans of 40k will do it, but someone brand new wanting to dip their toes in might get blindsided by not having enough specifically shaped plastic to represent what their toys do.

>>52816789
Three pairs of Talons too few. You get 3 pairs in a box.

>>52816804
Not really, no. The hiveguard are a little too wide to make it work.
>>
>>52817102
These dudes are (as pictured) one layer of gloss and two layers of matte. Gloss by itself is ridiculously shiny (this was mr super clear gloss, so it's the real fucking deal, very glossy and no loss of color vibrance)
>>
So can I buy one box of nid warriors and then get another later? I mean is it possible to build a good enough team from just one box?
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>>52817150
Yeah, I'd want mine to look slimy and wet though.
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>>52817165
Yes, but obviously you'll be limited to 3 dudesand you may end up with a slightly odd weapon arrangement.
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>>52817181
Alright. But they would be playable still? That's what matters to me really. I just feel like getting into a second team, but I don't want them to be completely gimped. :)
>>
>>52816851
A team I just threw together with only 3 Warriors is:

Alpha (250)
-Chitin Carapace
-Pair of Boneswords (125)
-Pair of Scything Talons

Warrior (200)
-Chitin Carapce
-Pair of Rending Claws (25)
-Scything Talons

Gun Beast (225)
-Adrenal Glands (10)
-Chitin Carapace
-Scything Talons
-Venom Cannon(165)
1000/1000

Very first amount of points should go into Biomorphs such as Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks.
Put Adrenal Glands on the Gun Beast so it can more quickly get into position for shooting, and if it's Venom Cannon every fails an ammo check, it can catch up to the other two.
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>>52817187
No less playable than guard limited by the special weapons in their box.
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>>52817198
Sounds good. Thanks for the advice.

>>52817194
But you're not putting a lot of biomorphs on them?
>>
>>52817206
The main way I look at it you have a few reasonable options for Warriors.

You either take fewer of them and give them nice weapons but few Biomorphs, or give them a lot of Biomorphs, but then your higher end weapon pool is reduced.

This is the list I started the league I'm in with:
Tyranid Alpha - (250) 300
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)

Tyranid New Spawn - (175) 225
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)

Tyranid New Spawn - (175) 225
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)

Tyranid Gun-Beast - (225) 250
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)

I went the more boys less toys route so I could equip them after the first couple of games.
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>>52817245
So basically all melee? Did that work?
>>
Just almost took a sip of my painting water instead of my beer. Again...
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>>52817275
not as bad as cleaning your brushes in your tea mate
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>>52817264
Tyranids are pretty horrifying opponents for "normal" kill teams just on their base stats alone, I imagine they did just fine.
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>>52817275
>not drinking your paint water to imbibe the essence of painting
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>>52817299

>Tyranids are pretty horrifying opponents for "normal" kill teams

Yep, all the WAACers and powergamers are gravitating to them, pretty sad to see it already.

But if you absolutely HAVE to win then, I guess...
>>
>>52817264
I've lost one Gun Beast but was able to buy it back. After a total of 4 (2 against Orkz and 2 against Harlequins) games, here's how my list is looking:

Tyranid Alpha - (250) 400
-Scything Talons (0)
-Lashwhip and Bonesword (100)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)
-Toxin Sacs - (10)
Skills - Evade, Ambush

Tyranid Warrior - (200) 250
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)

Tyranid New Spawn - (175) 225
-Scything Talons (0)
-Scything Talons (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)
Skills - Frenzy

Tyranid New Spawn - (175) 295
-Deathspitter (45)
-Rending Claws (25)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)
-Toxin Sacs - (10)

Tyranid Gun-Beast - (225) 340
-Scything Talons (0)
-Deathspitter (45)
-Acid Blood - (20)
-Adrenal Glands - (10)
-Flesh Hooks - (15)
-Toxin Sacs - (10)
-Extended Chitin Carapce (15)
Skills - Marksman

The first Gun Beast had Crack Shot before it died. The Frenzy New Spawn would have been a Warrior by now if it didn't have to miss a game. The Gun Beast is tooled out with a ton of Biomorphs because it's impossible to buy a Gun Beast and a Venom Cannon for it at the same time during a Recruit/Resupply. I'll be replacing it's Deathspitter after the next game. I gave it Acid Blood because it keeps going down/dying to melee.
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>>52817480
I already had Warriors because Tyranids is my main faction in 40k. Starting in 7th. Yup, I sure am a WAAC faggot for playing what I already have. Guess I'll just go kill myself after I'm done clubbing all the baby seals.

Warriors are trashpiles in 7th and die to anything that WOULD be considered top tier. In SWA, admittedly, they are really strong. So next time I'll probably just try to work with my GSC stuff that I got as an allied army anyway.
>>
>>52817524
>have been playing tyranids since I was 11 years old
>it's the only army I play in any GW game
>play them in SW:A
>OMG WAACFAG
>>
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>>52817489
You just made me imagine a poor IG player facing both Harlies and 'Nids on a regular basis.
>May Imperial justice account in all balance.
>The Emperor protects
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>>52817052
God I hate old tyranid models...
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>>52818200
To be honest the new ones aren't very good either imo. If you're creating an alien race, why the heck do you make them humanoid? Sounds like lack of imagination to me. And why do they have external animal weapons in symbiosis so it looks like they're carrying guns? Why can't they vomit, shit and piss stuff on their enemies instead? Walking on two legs? Why not give them more? The whole Tyranid race seems poorly imagined imo.
>>
>>52817524
>>52817819
>playing nids
>have lots of stuff
>still play the strongest option
>>
How viable is chainswords and bolt pistols for GSC?
Been trying to write a list and was thinking about taking shotguns but I noticed boltpistols are just as good
>>
>>52818266
You have way poorer imagination if you think a bugs swarm with fully organic tech having numerous legs and non external biomorphs is somehow more original or interesting
>>
>>52818266
Using tropes and established genre conventions to create something new is key characteristic of 40k. The rest of your critique is bullshit since it entails: Why is it not X? without giving motivation why that would fit the theme of the faction more.

Furthermore, in creating 'products' it's accepted as a good practice to combine 'points of parity (the familiar) with points of difference (the new) to make something that is compelling for your audience.
>>
>>52817052
Using the claws as scy talons? Its what I should probably just do (Im thinking of doing some hackjobs with modern scy talons)
>>
>>52817052
Nice work, but like the other anon said, the orignal Tyranids are aweful/not my taste.
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>>52818416
I'd have used 2e hormagaunt talons but I only have like 2 sets. Of those and they are hard to come by.
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>>52818277
Funny story. I play Orks, the only team I've lost to so far was an IG team making their best Tau impression. Neither Harlies nor 'nids have put so much as a dent in the green tide.

I've since come to the conclusion that just because something is good on paper, doesn't mean it's good on the table-top. Harlies, for example, are pitifully easy to overwhelm and annihilate simply through sheer numbers. Sure, I can't take any of the 1v1, even with my nob, but that doesn't matter when my Nob +3 yoofs are the ones doing the smacking.

'nids were more difficult, I'll admit. Something to do with 3 sodding wounds one each model and a 5+ save as well as godly CC. That said, they have a relatively low model count, too. Overwhelmed them with a fuckton of shoota and slugga attacks.

They were the reason I bought grenades, though.
>>
I spent some time playing around with the new terrain today and I think you definitely need an extra of one of the big kits to make something interesting.

Also it feels like 4 leg supports is not enough if you want to make modular terrain without relying on the clips.
>>
>>52818380
>>52818318
>>52818266
Just wanna take this moment to say this model is a fucking awesome example of what the Tyranids are all about (and why some are humanoid) they ate a fucking ork and turned his mass into a fucking cannon! Look at that smug bastard, even in dead his body fights and he literally became the dakka
>>
>>52818463
even before the game was out, anons in this thread had already decided that Harlequins were 'broken'

It's a whole lot o f conjecture and not that often backed up with facts.
>>
>>52818318
There's nothing wrong with my imagination. I can imagine crazy, over the top stuff too. But considering what Tyranids are it would've been more believable if they had evolved differently. Then again, that would've made them less suitable for a wargame.
>>
>>52818483
That said, the fact they have rules which basically say "You can't shoot me, ever" is pretty annoying.
>>
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>>52818482
>even in dead
Damn autocorrect
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>>52818380
It's just my opinion. I think they could've done them differently and better. But it's a wargame, and they need to keep things within certain limits or it would just be a bunch of exceptions to the core rules, and unnecessarily hard to create and balance rules for them.

And while we're talking about bullshit, there are plenty of familiar otherworldly stuff in pop culture. I'm not saying they need to come up with something completely new. Just saying antropomorphic insects are kinda lazy.
>>
>>52818482
He wouldn't be so smug if he were able to see the ballsack dangling above his head. :)
>>
>>52818506
I'm not saying it's perfect or that Harlequins have design flaws. But some anons in this thread over exaggerate.

>>52818482
I think the tyranids have plenty of weird models without losing their Xenomorph Dinosaur look.

>>52818543
But you're just arguing weird, for weirdness sake. I know it's the hip thing to do when talking about aliens. The tyranids have plenty of weird models at the moment. Flying poison octopi, Psychic worms, giant burrowing mawbeasts, tentacle grape cannon beasts, chameleon squidfaced predator, walking breeder monsters, etc.
>>
>>52818624
Sure, I was mainly talking about the warriors and other bipedal variants. The fundamental idea of an alien lifeform is cool, and it's something that's been tickling the human imagination for many years. To fit that concept into a wargame requires staying within certain limits. Both for playability reasons and miniature creation reasons. But in some of the cases I think they could've made them cooler.
>>
>>52818658
>But in some of the cases I think they could've made them cooler.

Put up or shut up.
>>
>>52818670
I don't sculpt, sorry.
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>>52818685

If you can't even describe what you are talking about you have no cause to say the design could have been cooler.
>>
>>52818670
>>52818685
Or are you telling me I'm not allowed to criticize their design decisions if I'm not a making wargames or sculpt miniatures myself?
>>
>>52818658
>Sure, I was mainly talking about the warriors and other bipedal variants
So you're moving the goalposts? Since your original post talks about an 'alien race'. I'm not gonna extend your argument to Eldar and Tau, who are also Alien lifeforms, since that would be disingenuous, but saying 'Aliens need to be weirder' without being specific in what you'd hope for while respecting their themes and aesthetic is a bit useless.
>>
>>52818690
Ah so that's what you're on about. I already said what I had issues with. If you can't comprehend what you read then I can't help you.
>>
>>52818693

Yes. "It could have been cooler" if you can't even describe in concrete ways what could have been done better you aren't doing criticism just having a vapid moan.
>>
>>52818696
Ok, let me clarify: Insectoid aliens should be more alien. Or more insectoid.
>>
>>52818709
Dude, I don't have to tell you shit about what I consider cooler design. If you think that's moaning, that's cool with me. I don't owe you anything you muppet.
>>
>>52818713

They aren't insectoid though, they are reptilian. "Space dinosaurs" was the original brief. And the original models with see through ribs were pretty alien.
>>
>>52818713
I don't thing Tyranids are particularly insectoid. They resemble dinosaurs or big reptiles in my opinion. Which fits with their whole 'ultimate predator' vibe.
>>
>>52818724

Then shut up.
>>
>>52818725
Reptilian? Well, that explains quite a bit. Did they retcon that at some point? Because I recall them being distinctly insect inspired when they first came out.
>>
>>52818734
Oh, someone on the internet tells me to shut up. I better obey.
>>
>>52818745

Warriors were always space dinosaurs. Stealers and Gaunts got a bit more buggy with more of a chitinous exoskeleton. Then around 3rd - 4th edition they started to steal design elements from Aliens heavily (eg the crested heads from the queen).

They've never really been insectoid apart from having six limbs. Referring to them as "bugs" was a reference to Starship Troopers.
>>
>>52818463
>Harlies, for example, are pitifully easy to overwhelm and annihilate simply through sheer numbers.

Mind you, Orks are kinda THE numbers force. I'd be much more hesitant about Tau or Marines doing it.
>>
>>52818751
>Oh, someone on the internet tells me to to back up my statement with actual arguments.
>>
>>52818797
You want me to back up my opinion on some of the design choices regarding Tyranids? You can't possibly be that stupid.
>>
>>52818751

Different anon here.

It's boiled down to whinging that some nids have two legs and you don't like it, so maybe time to move on.


How do orks best deal with termies? The best I can think of is throwing 3 slugga+choppa yoofs and a PK nob at them while having enough models to reliably pass my fear tests. Stack on the combat and dice bonus and angle for him to start rolling 6s on 2d6. At about a 45% chance of fail that means mr nob only needs to score 3 wounds to slip one by.
>>
>>52818777
Yeah, those are some of the things that I really can't see being reptilian. Chitinous exoskeletons, hive minds, swarms. So many terms that refer to insects in our world. If they really meant for them to be reptilian they should've used a different terminology imo.
>>
>>52818841
Yeah, I moved on a long time ago. Now I'm being requested to "back up" my opinion. It's not me that needs to move on.
>>
>>52818860

Then ignore it?


>>52818841

I started off thinking rokits where the answer, but now I'm reconsidering. They can semi reliably pin, but really you can't trust them to hit their mark. Even if they do it's only like a 1/10 chance to wound.
>>
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>>52818180
I face Harlies, Nids, and Skitarii mainly. It's super unfun at times, but Harlequins are the only ones I think are blatantly broken.
>>
>>52818829
Well it is kinda ironic that you think that Tyranids are uninspired and that your own 'suggestions' for improvement are even more uninspired since you haven't gotten further than 'cooler' and 'more alien'. And when people criticized your post, you started moving goalposts. And if you don't want people to argue with you, which is fine, then you shouldn't voice your opinion on a website that is famous for being pedantic and rude.

>>52818841
Ignore them? And focus on the rest of the more valuable and squishy assets in the team. To hire a spec-ops you need to spend a cache, which means you have to 'win' in order to make back your losses. If you didn't hire a spec-ops all you have to do is 'not lose'.
>>
>>52818925
I haven't moved goal posts ffs. I said I thought it was lazy design to make bipedal insects. When you create something alien you can go a lot further than to make them humanoid. While there are other types of Tyranids that is beside the point since we were talking about warriors to begin with. It's a fucking opinion and as such it's subjective. I can't argue something that's subjective but I'm still being asked to do just that. That's just too stupid to be discussed. However, the other discussion we had about reptilian vs insectoid was very interesting. I didn't mind that at all. I don't see how you can possibly lump those two together and claim I don't want to discuss it. I don't mind discussing it, as long as the person I'm discussing with isn't being a complete fuckwit.
>>
>>52818180
I have 2x plasmaguns, heavy flamer and plasmapistol. Few krak grenades here and there and sprinkle with red dots (and telescopes on plasmaguns). Add to that almost a fetish for overwatch and the end result is unpinnable buggers either failing their charges on 2+ or not even trying. Because if they fail and survided the guy who shot them goes to overwatch again and fires them again if they even move their finger.
>>
>>52819030
>To be honest the new ones[tyranid models] aren't very good either imo. If you're creating an alien race, why the heck do you make them humanoid?

You originally implied that Tyranids, in general, are unimaginative and lazy. Then you moved it to warriors specifically. Then it became, they need to be more insectoid.

That's moving goalposts in my opinion. Arguing that your opinion doesn't need further motivation because it's subjective is lazy.

When someone writes a review about a movie, we still expect them to motivate that opinion. Not just say; It's a bad movie, it needs to be better. We also expect that when someone starts with a general statement that the reviewer then doesn't change their statement to "I meant that the acting was subpar" when the original review or statement doesn't properly reflect that.

Now you could argue that this is all semantics, but considering the amount of posts we have had to waste on your failing to properly express or motivate your opinion the first time the fault, in my opinion, lies with you not with the people criticizing the way you stated your opinion.
>>
>>52819299

>All that text

Why? why expend the effort?
>>
Any tips for Chaos? Campaign is starting soon, and lots of people are bringing lots of hurt. Lots of Harlequins, Skitarii and Nids
>>
>>52819348
>All that Deflection

Why? Why the intellectual laziness?

>>52819359
Use Marines for melee, and try to get as many cheap cultists in there as fodder?
>>
>>52819299
>You originally implied that Tyranids, in general, are unimaginative and lazy

No that was in reply to a comment on the old warrior models specificly. You'd know that if you had followed the discussion from the start rather than just jump in halfway through.

The fault definitely lies with the socially inept people who sperged at me. Those who actually went into a normal discussion exempted obviously.

And my statement is fairly self explanatory, in that I said I think it's lazy to design an alien race as antropomorphic wielding guns (when the rest of the traits of the made up race opens up so many possibilities. But I shouldn't have to add this because we both know what we're talking about).
>>
>>52819494

You're an autistic fuckwit, no one cares
>>
>>52819494
>Marines for melee
So...MoK?
>>
>>52819527
>wielding guns

Oh fucking please. Tyranid symbiote weapons are far "cooler" than them just vomiting plasma (which Carnifexes used to do).
>>
>>52819567
That does seem to be the most straightforward one. Although Slaanesh might be good if you expect a lot of ties. And Nurgle gives you extra staying power, which isn't bad in itself either against high str opponents.

>>52819527
>Alien race
>Tyranid Models

B-but I was only talking about warriors you guys!
>>
>>52819527
Gun symbiotes are the tyranid thing.
They are similar to zerg, bugs, etc., but the gun symbiotes set them apat.
>>
>>52819629

Is there any previous work which had gun symbiotes? I've never run across it but it is surprising when GW creates something from whole cloth.
>>
>>52819585
Now see.. the carnifex vomiting plasma was cool imo. That's more alien than an antropomorphic creature wielding a gun (no matter if it's grafted onto its body or fused with it or whatever). Apex predator? Shouldn't their whole body be a weapon then? But no, they need symbiotes to help them. Alright then..

>>52819606
I was though. Some of the Tyranid models, current and older, are pretty bad ass imo.

>>52819629
I know. They're still "guns" though. And that's where the limitations of a wargame comes in. In my opinion it would have been cooler if their own bodies were in themselves weapons.
>>
>>52814393
Too bad this game sucks
>>
>>52818307
Been using a bolt pistol on my leader and he's rocking it pretty well. Pretty cheap for what it offers and puts holes in things when needed. Chainswords seem like fun but I haven't used them.
>>
>>52816907
I ordered them from some Hong Kong ebay dude, so who knows.
>>
>>52819819
>Now see.. the carnifex vomiting plasma was cool imo. That's more alien than an antropomorphic creature wielding a gun

It's less alien than a symbiote guns. There are creatures on Earth who vomit/spit acid etc.

Tyranid warriors using "guns" was also to show they aren't just beasts but are sentient.

>Apex predator? Shouldn't their whole body be a weapon then?

It is. Have you not paid attention to all the claws and shit?
>>
>>52819819
>i have no idea what an apex predator is
>>
>>52819962
There are creatures on earth in symbiotic relationships as well.

So they're supposed to be a hive mind but sentient at the same time? Please elaborate.

Sure they have claws, but if they were apex predators they wouldn't need anything else besides their natural weapons. The only thing those symbiotic "guns" signal to me is the delusion that humans are the ultimate apex predator.

>>52820010
Google it then.
>>
>>52820096
>There are creatures on earth in symbiotic relationships as well.

Nothing approaching symbiote guns.

>So they're supposed to be a hive mind but sentient at the same time? Please elaborate.

What's to elaborate? "Hive mind" does not imply that every member is a meat puppet.

>but if they were apex predators they wouldn't need anything else besides their natural weapons

You are putting far too much emphasis on some throw away line in a codex. Tyranids are a species that mastered genetic engineering instead of mechanical engineering and so wouldn't just rely on "natural weapons" even if they spat acid instead of having symbiote guns.
>>
>>52820096
The hive mind is the product of billions of individual consciousnesses in continuous psychic communication with each other.

It is not some top-down controlling force that directs all tyranid activity.
>>
>>52820170
Well there are no creatures vomiting plasma either. Stop intentionally misinterpreting what I say.

>"Hive mind" does not imply that every member is a meat puppet.

No of course they're not meat puppets. But a hive mind in itself signals sentience. So what does wielding guns add to that? Not that it takes much sentience to wield a gun. Are you actually trying to say that it is to symbolize a higher level of intelligence? Because sentience doesn't really make sense here.

>Tyranids are a species that mastered genetic engineering

Ok, now I missed that part completely about engineering. I clearly need to reread the later codexes. I was under the impression that they evolved into what they are. Not that they engineered themselves into their current forms. That explains a lot, and is actually a very good explanation. Were they actually presented as genetical engineers when they were first released? I really don't remember them as such. Oh well. I've got some reading to do. :)
>>
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>Mfw my Yoof took 2 plasma shots to the chest, fell 10 inches, got downed, stabilized next turn, then proceeded to ram a boot into said plasma gunning scouts ass
He's a tuff git he is.
>>
>>52821007
>next turn your leader takes one lasgun shot and dies
>>
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>>52821042
>Mfw my leader died to 3 turns of toxic rounds but a downed boy got a 2nd wound so he's the nob now
I have a little d6 table to roll for Klans when I make a Kill team, the new leader is a Mad Flyboy, who's trying to get back into a Dakkajet after he was shot down over Armageddon.
>>
>>52820950
>>someone makes a good argument introducing new knowledge
>>the other guy accepts the new knowledge and is willing to explore a new outlook

What the fuck, I thought this was the internet.
>>
>>52820950
Reminder that tyranid guns themselves are often legitimately sentient and capable of coherent conscious thought which be translated into human language by a psyker.
>>
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Just re-read this and holy shit. I thought it was like +1 BS but charging orks cant fumble and crit on 5+. Damn thats powerful.
>>
Hey! Guard mould lines guy here.

I can't decide if I want transfers on the shoulderpads or not.

The shoulderpads will be olive green. The problem is that the number of my made up regiment is not on the transfer sheet so I'll have to cut up other transfers and that seems like a bit too much work.

How important do you think transfers are?
>>
>>52821385
Isn't a roll of 1 always a fumble though?
>>
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>>52821420
Reading this and how 'Ere We Go! is worded, I'd say that Orks dont roll fumbles on charge.

Kind of big encouragement to get in and charge your opponents as orks.
>>
>>52821522
I understand your perspective, but I would interpret it as rolls of 1 always fumbling and rolls of 6 always critting.
>>
>>52821522
Yeah, a 1 on the die is a fumble, no matter what modifiers you have. Sorry to stifle your fun. :/
>>
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I heard some anons talking about how pistols can be used in melee. Do they just add an extra attack like in regular 40k or can you actually use the stats in combat?
Sorry for the dumb question.
>>
>>52822250
Both.
>>
>>52822250
If you use a pistol (that hasn't failed an ammo roll yet during the game. If it does you can't use it in melee) in melee along with another melee weapon or pistol, you get a bonus attack die for fighting with two weapons. When you resolve hits you cycle between the weapons you're fighting with, so if you for example have a knife and a laspistol you will deal every second hit with the knife and every other hit with the pistol. You use the pistols statline for dealing damage with it.
>>
>>52822429
>>52822431
In that case is there even any point to have say an aspiring champion with a power sword and a plasma pistol?
>>
>>52822484
Why not? They have different uses. The sword can parry and the pistol can shoot at range as well.
>>
How many specialists can I have in my army? Can't find the rule because I guess im retarded
>>
>>52822819
Page 71, 2 specialists per killteam unless otherwise specified.
>>
Am I blind, or where are the rules for space marines, that aren't shit? The only ones I can find, seem to be non-codex Marines, or Space Wolves.

I can't seem to find proper rules for my Dark Angels.
>>
>>52822819
What faction are you playing?
>>
>>52822935
There's only Angels of Redemption in the rulebook.
>>
>>52814393
So I'm going to my second match of this tonight. I was looking for some suggestions on upgrades for my squad. Here's what I currently got:

>Vet Sergant with laspistol, chainsword, hotshot pack, carapace armor, and krak grenade
>Specialist with carapace armor, grenade launcher with both types of grenade, knife.
>Veteran guardsman with carapace, lasgun, hotshot pack, and knife
>5 veteran guardsmen with lasguns, flak armor, and knifes.

I was thinking of trading in the one victory point thing I got for an extra hundred points and get all the guardsmen red dot sights and flak armor, though one unlucky guy doesn't get armor. This sound like a decent idea or completely shit?
>>
>>52823295
Meant to write carapace armor. I never learn to proofread before I hit post.
>>
>>52822981
>Angels of Redemption
Where?

Looking through the main rulebook, and it doesn't seem to be there. And it isn't in the killteams pdf either.
>>
>>52821522
>>52821807
>>52822181
I imagine you'd interpret it as a roll of 1 +1 so you would still fumble on a 1 and crit on a 6.
>>
>>52823441
Well it's not much of rules. It's just their specific skill tables (page 104). The SM factions don't have different rules, apart from space wolves.
>>
>>52823444
The roll is what the die shows. The result is the die roll plus applicable modifiers.
>>
>>52823786
Where does it say that in the rules?
>>
>>52823444
>>52823786
>>52824026
This is one of the things that needs FAQ clarification or just houseruling.

I'm leaning towards +1 to rolls so they cant fumble, they crit on 5 and 6's can be parried. Sounds totally like a berserk charge of an ork.

And since orks have sucked for ~10 years, I want our ork players to enjoy skrappi' in melee.
>>
>>52824091
It probably should be FAQ'd, but almost certainly the other way. Fumbles/crits usually go on the "natural" die roll.
>>
>>52824125
Well they did in oldmunda I do remember that. But like I said, I like its better rule than just "+1WS on charge" and easier way to get parried. And I do not play orks. I'm the guy who spams max plasma as IG.
>>
>>52824026
It doesn't say that explicitly. You can figure that out if you read. It's the terminology they use throughout the rules.

>>52824091
They're still great in swag, even without immunity to fumbles.
>>
>>52824354
>They're still great in swag, even without immunity to fumbles.
Yeah I've noticed but they tend to shoot stuff instead of barging in. Playing the rule like that gives you reasons to go get stuck in and club heads.

I think I'll try to introduce the rule like that to our playgroup. I dont think nobody objects that. Even the skitarii player would probably love getting his cyborgs bashed in melee.
>>
Raptor, terminator, or spawn?
>>
>>52824624
Terminator. Enjoy it all you can that Chaos Terminators are good for once.
>>
>>52824646
>restricted to 1 weapon swap
>still gets oneshot by a plasmagun
>>
>>52824443
Or you can just let them experience how bad ass orks are in melee by setting up a couple of test games. Plenty of batreps tell stories of orks, for some reason "against all odds" (although in reality they have the odds on their side), win the melee.
>>
>>52824722
Well plasma is -3 so thats 6+ save on 2d6. Not exactly instant death.
>>
>>52824624
You know you can have more than one spec op, right? And that you can have more than one of the same kind?
>>
So how good/shit are Grey Knights in this? I'm wary, considering how expensive they are, but they're what I already have.
>>
>>52824806
Powerful but fragile.
>>
>>52824806
They're not bad at all according to those I have spoken to who have actually played them. Depends on how well you play them and how well you understand the nature of the game. But that goes for all factions obviously.
>>
>>52824840
>>52824831
So how bad of an idea would this be?

Justicar: 335
- Frag Grenades
- Force Sword

Grey Knight: 260
- Frag Grenades
- Force Sword

Gunner: 405
- Clip Harness
- Psycannon
- Telescopic Sight
>>
So, apparently Sororitas and Inquisition lists have been available for quite some time.
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf
>>
>>52825267
>https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf
Holy shit you didnt lie!
>>
>>52825267
lul and everyone (myself included) has been wondering when they'll be released.
>>
>>52825267
There was much rejoicing
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>>52824905
bad, save unnecessary upgrades for the rearm phase after battle because you cant ever recruit so take as many knights as possible first
>>
>>52825413
I don't think there's a way to have more than 3 knights and make them worth a damn...
>>
>>52825267
>SoB leader can take special weapons
fug
>>
>>52825457
Yeah but only combi-weapons.

Still. Even oneshot melta/flamer is nasty.
>>
>>52825267
An inquisition team basically looks like a really weird guard team.
I'd have to run mine with guardsmens equipped with lasguns and snipers but then I'd have some crusaders and my inquisitor with... no thunder hammer option so maul?
>>
>>52825267
>that ordo xenos team
nice

Shame there's no way to get heavy weapons, but nice. Posting the shit homebrew I did while waiting for them to release that.
>>
Well, I'm happy for all the SoB players and those who've been waiting for Inq rules as well. Enjoy. The Seraphim seems bad ass.
>>
>>52817052
Awesome. Almost inspires me to dig some of those out.

Also, to the haters, those aren't the original warriors. Those are the 2e ones. Also oldschool nids are way better. Hate the dino look.
>>
>>52825267
Noice.
>>
>>52825434
Don't fall into the trap of buying a Psycannon instead of a fourth knight before the first game. A Justicar, Grey Knight, and two Gunners all with warding staves still gives you 75 points of wiggle room to adjust melee weapons and/or hand out a grenade or two. Everyone on your team having a sustained fire bolter isn't the worst thing to deal with for a game.
And >>52825413 is wrong, because as long as you're willing to burn a cache you can still hire a grey knight with a warding stave or a Gunner if you aim for Scavenger as a skill advance. Yeah it sucks to dump your victory condition just to recoup losses, but that's the elite army life for you.
>>
Deathwatch Kill-Team when? This is the EXACT situation they would deploy a kill team in. WTF?
>>
>>52825434
Leader - Pair of Falchions

Trooper - Warding Staff

Gunner - Warding Staff, Clip Harness, Telescopic Sight, Psybolts

Gunner - Warding Staff, Clip Harness

Since you can swap gear around, after the first round you'll buy psycannon, attack telesight to it and give your psybolts to your other gunner. Second round nets you another psycannon with telesight. Psycannon gunners are very scary dudes.
>>
Can i fit red dots to big gunz?
>>
>>52825823
Only basic/pistol/specials
>>
>>52825698
Inquisitor 345
Power armour, power maul, bolt pistol, rad grenades

Acolyte 110
Sniper, camo gear, Bs+1

Acolyte 135
Chainsword, las pistol, melta bombs

Initiate 75
Lasgun

Initiate 75
Lasgun

Initiate 75
Lasgun

Crusader 185
Storm shield, Power sword

Looks weird but decent.
>>
>>52825267

Does anyone else feel that they may have gotten the Celestian and the Seraphim's Hand of the Emperor rules mixed up?
>>
The Inquisition just seems like a flat out better version of Guard. The costs are similar for the stats and they have better special operatives.
>>
>>52826076
guard are shootier
ordo xenos are MUCH fightier
>>
And now I'm confused. Played as GSC, loved it, but wasn't shooty enough for me. Decided to go Chaos. And now Inquisition comes out and looks like what I wanted.
>>
>>52826155
Play all of them. :)
>>
>>52826155
>heavy stubbers, mining lasers and seismic cannons
>can have 3 specialists
>not shooty enough
whaaaaat
>>
>>52826155
inquisition aren't shootier than GSC
>>
>>52826200
Would love to, but there's a campaign starting at FLGS. Gotta be prepared. Guess I'll stick with the chaos.
>>
>>52826209
bs3, no red dot. I suck at rolling.
>>
>>52826251
Stick with what's easiest for you to field on short notice, and then expand into other teams as time permits. That's what I'm doing at least. Right now I'm sticking to my cadians.
>>
>GSC have their own extra arms rule like tyranids
>It's worded differently
>It's still never stated that any model actually has extra arms
>>
>>52826076
They don't have special ranged weapons other than snipers and combi weapons.

I remember the rules for the ogryn being really good.
>>
>>52826312
>other than snipers and combi weapons
That's not really a downside depending on your meta. Facing Harlies a ton most of the special weapons are worthless for me.
>>
>>52826301
Specialist hybrids. You only get the basic plebs for the actual team.
>>
>>52826312
Acolytes can grab storm bolters, technically.
>>
>>52826076
>Guardfags on /tg/ made their "muh dudes" aren't actually special and anything they can do can be done better by others, just like in the actual lore
>>
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These Kommandos turned out pretty good, gonna run them as boys with choppas sluggas and stickbombs tomorrow
>>
>>52826340
S7 is high impact, plasma gunners can knock down harlies, genestealers, terminators and warriors.
>>
>>52826431
That's part of the charm of playing guard imo.
>>
BANE!?
>>
>>52826727
So carapace armour variants are completely superior to the regular guys?
>>
dice+2d7
>>
>>52817105
I would ignore WYSIWYG for first battle.
>>
>>52826434
>(5.63 MB, 3471x1341)
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>>52826843
In general I think WSYSIWYG is a bad rule in general. As long as you can distinguish what each model should be, it doesn't matter. (Outside of a tournament setting.)
>>
>>52826864
>phoneposting
>pepeposting
>>
>>52816150
fucking Tau poster just enjoy the damn game without your powerlevel
yes i'm mad
>>
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>>52814393
Friendly reminder that using more terrain than came in the box is not only wrong, but ruins balance and is probably cheating
That mistake is problably where your Harlie problems come from
>>
>>52827406
But...you posted an image using more! D:

>>52826727
If only the models actually looked that decent. The actual ones are garbage.
>>
>>52814393
>40k is a rules mess that can only be played casual
>SWA is a neat ruleset that is somewhat balanced
>/tg/ plays 40k seriously and swa casually
Why am i not surprised
>>
>>52827472
Yes, i provided an example with way too much terrain, to make the negative impact on the game more obvious.
>>
>>52827472
>The actual ones are garbage.
The plastic ogryn are fuckin' great, though. Only problem is the tank treads, but that's an easy fix.
>>
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>>52826864
>tfw on a 40' led monitor
lel my natural resolution is so yuge I forget to resize my images anymore

here's a more reasonable image
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>>52825966
No? Tabletop Seraphim Act of Faith is shred (Reroll to wound) and Celestians get Furious Charge (+1S on charge represented in SWA as +2 on Charge)
>>
>>52827663
Australian internet. And at work. Dont judge.
>>
>>52825267
Nice, you'd think they'd have alarmed more people via warhammer communtiy and facebook
>>
>>52825267
Not sure about the Inquisition special rules, was more thinking about burning me some heretics though then again there is no official cult list yet except for xenos culitsts
Still, the game is kinda balanced so far and this could screw things up
>>
>>52825267
>All the novitiae homebrew rules are wrong; gw decided they have power armour now
>>
>>52825267

Even with all the responses I still thought you fucks were trolling and checked that link with zero expectations.

Now I NEED MORE BITS FOR CONVERSIONS!
>>
>>52827916
it's all good cunt
>>
>>52825267

...is it just me or does the SOB skills looks kinda fucked up?

Combat is an entirely melee skill list when your basic troops are WS 3, 1 attack and expensive.

The 6++ also seems kinda worthless when Red Dot sights mean they'll likely already HAVE an Inv save.
>>
The Inquisition list is really interesting. I'm disappointed no heavy weapons because I had a cool conversion using GSC in mind but the recruits getting a +1 bonuses to WS or BS on recruitment and then again when they turn into troopers seems pretty powerful.
>>
>>52828313
>recruits getting a +1 bonuses to WS or BS on recruitment
Not how it works. The initial bonus is specifically for Acolytes. The recruits are Initiates.
>>
>>52825267

Is it just me or is the Arco-Flagelent a heap better than the Sister Repentia? Faster, higher WS, Bersker Charge, Feel No Pain. She's got better armour penetration it almost no certainty to get to the battle or even win it.
>>
>>52828349

The Sister Repentia can't actually use the 'Be better at melee' faith power. That's kinda funny.
>>
>>52828337

Fuck you are right.

Also now I want kill teams for the other Ordos so I can get the Condemnor bolter. I was going to use the Greyfax mini with a different head.
>>
>>52828394

The Condemnor seems pretty junk, honestly. You are paying 20 extra points for a rather junk alternate shot type when there are so few psykers in the game.
>>
>>52825267

...Sisters can't get Photovisors? They have power armour. Heck, model-wise they have the ability to model having them or not.

That's just weird.
>>
>>52828420

But it'd be funny to crossbow Grey Knights.
>>
>>52828394
Inquisitor team is also funny. You pay 10pts to get +1 armor and +1I since inquisitor is wearing carapace armour. And if you sport stormshield WHICH YOU REALLY SHOULD then its just +10pts to get +1I.
>>
>>52828602
It's interesting that the acolytes can't buy at least carapace.

Not that carapace is super important in this game, but still.
>>
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>>52828420
Here's hoping that means more psyker units
>>
>>52828602

Huh, I was wondering why the Inquisitors power armor was only 10 pts.
>>
>>52828680

Wouldn't help. Rather than saying 'Psyker' they just listed out what units it hurts. They'd need to errata the weapon each time they introduced one.

They really should have just had a 'Psyker' keyword for those units.
>>
>>52825942
Am I missing something? There's an inquisition faction now?
>>
>>52828941

GW stealth updated the extra killteams PDF.
>>
Plasma Pistols are not Inquisitor only.

So you can have Crusaders with Plasma Pistols and Storm Shields at BS4 as short range/melee tanking gods? (With only 1 Attack but... if they win...)
>>
>>52829019
Crusaders are BS3
>>
>>52828289
Well, that's just the result of the current GW teams not playing them and having no idea where to go with them.
So they just copy/pasted them again, making them a bit out of place in the game where they fit most fluffwise.
Also, we definitly need a chaos cultist list.
>>
>>52829276

>So they just copy/pasted them again, making them a bit out of place in the game where they fit most fluffwise.

Yeah. I think that's my issue with the SOB list. Not that it's bad. Much like the TT, it's hard to argue with the basic pricing of the SOB. More that it feels uninspired and half-hearted. Decent parts that don't quite fit together properly.

My favorite bit there? The Celestian spec ops.

>WS 4, good for melee.
>2 Attacks, I'm liking
>4 init, cool
>+2 charge mod 1/game. Not bad at all.
>No ability to take melee weapons other than the starting knife.

...guys? Can we get a power sword or maul up in this? Like you gave the Superior? Literally every change she has over a basic SOB is about melee.
>>
>>
>>52829276
I think they kind of just did, "Oh everyone complains about how their ability types are useless since they can only be used once a game. We'll just add the ability to do it multiple times for a points costs and it'll fix the issue." Which was not the case.
>>
>>52829399
The criminal located one could be interesting if it wasn't for Tau having the same ability with their markerlights.
>>
IN YOUR FACE SORORITAS HOMEBREWER. i kept telling you to use the necromunda outlanders community edition rules for evicerators, and look what GW did. used the necromunda outlanders comminity edition rules for eviscerators.
>>
>>52829075
I meant to say WS4 sorry.
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>>52827406

So if you didn't get a box, then it's just "fuck you kys"?

I know this is bait but for those that may fall for your trap I will commence arguing with your very flawed opinion to save them the heart ache of doing otherwise.

On pg 4 of the Main Rules pdf from the OPit says:
>What Else You Will Need
>The battlefield can be of any size from 2' by 2' upward, but you will rarely need a space larger than 4' by 4'.
Later in that same section:
>In general, we find that the more scenery you set up, the better the game will be. That aside, placing the scenery so as to create an interesting and inspiring looking landscape should be your primary goal.

So take your troll post and go fuck yourself!
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>>52829677

Actually, they didn't. At all. Here is a screenshot right from my community edition PDF.

They used the original necromunda rules for evicerators.
>>
>>52829661

It's not quite the same. It negates hiding as well.

But yeah, both Tau and Skittari have a similar ability.
>>
>>52816901
awesome chosen anon, they look 10/10. Are those all GW bitz or is there some third party in there?
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>>52829723

We usually take a 6' x 4' and run two game simultaneously giving us two 4'x3' boards.
>>
>>52829677

And? I don't have to agree with GW's decisions. Heck, that's a large chunk of the talk about 40k on this board.

What I do find funny? GW and I used the same statline for the warband leader. Said statline...isn't the one from the codex. So we managed to both pick the same non-codex statline.
>>
>>52829682
I'd still probably just run them with a power sword and use them to swing combats/be a buddy with other warband members.
>>
>>52825267
>Sniper Rifle as a basic weapon
:DDDDD
>>
>>52829729
pardon. i fucked up what i was saying. i meant to say the either of the previous versions. As I had urged him to simply use the already statted ones. blugh. in my haste i fucked up my gloating! oh well.
>>
Is it possible to play this without the special dice? I have d6 and a scatter die
>>
>>52830018

You can just map the scatter distance dice or the scatter dice to a D6.
>>
>>52830018
Yes.
use your brain
>>
>>52819494
use cheap cultist with autogun (and maybe red dot eventually) to keep the world pinned, and close in with melee csm.
try not to fight nids.
>>
>>52830042
Are there just 6 options on the jam(?) dice, so I can write out a chart?
>>
>>52830138
so. time to use your brain. the artillery dice has 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and jam results. almost like it has 1-5 doubled on it
>>
>>52830148
i'm an idiot, thanks.
>>
Haha the new SW:A rulebook is $83 on the NZ store.

So glad I managed to order a copy of the boxset on the 3rd due to my fav online retailer being late with putting up pre-orders.
>>
>>52830300

Oh and I just noticed they are selling a bundle with the new rule book, the Galvanic Magnavent kit, and the Ferratonic Furnace kit for $279 when the SW:A box was $220.

GW have no shame lol.
>>
>>52830316
the newer book includes the online factions, I believe
>>
Is there any reason to take the barbed strangler over the venom cannon for nids?
>>
The multiple close combat rule is kinda clunky. Let's see if I got it right:

1 vs 2+
2+ player choses who fights first. First "combat round" is a standard 1 vs 1. Then the 2+ player choses his second fighter that attacks. If his first fighter survived, his second gets +1 WS, 1 A. Then he choses his third fighter. If his first and second fighters survoved, his third gets +2 WS, +2 A. And so on.
-> If his fighters never survive, his subsequent fighters don't get ans bonuses. So swarming huge melee threats is kinda hard to do. You need to let your most survivable models fight first to have a chance to give some boni to your next-in-line fighters.

And how in hell do you resolve 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 when all bases touch at least 2 enemies? Houserule to split fights into multiple 1vs1 ?
>>
Ah fuck. "If the outnumbered fighter survives..." Ok, so the subsequent fighters of the outnumbering (2+) fighter always get their bonuses. Swarming is valid, got it.

3 Guards vs 1 Harlequin: The third Guardsmen gets WS 5 and 3 Attack against the Harlequin, putting him basicly on par.
>>
>>52830951
it's not actually +ws. it's +1 to combat score. while similar it's an important distinction. (some things can fuck up or tank your WS or set it to a level)
>>
>>52827024
Yeah, why even use miniatures. I just take some old chess pieces and let them represent fighters.
>>
>>52830918
You gotta read it carefully "If the Outnumbered fighter survives" as in, the 1, not the 2+.

Second gets +1A +1 result, Third gets +2A +2 result, whether the first or second survived the encounter or not.

The rules don't exactly cover the rules for when you charge into a multiple combat, but I'd switch it to several single combats or whatever makes sense. Rather than 2v2, you have two 1v1 combats. Instead of 2v3, you have a 1v1 and a 1v2 combat.
>>
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I'm in the middle of making a dedicated SWA board. I'm getting four panels from the Sector Imperialis board so I'm going to try to make a layout that works no matter the order or facing of the individual 2x2's. I'm working on walkways until I get my hands on the actual board, I think I'm going to paint hazard stripes on surfaces that models can fall from.
>>
>>52816150

Meh. The game revolves more around CC thne 40k dose.

And if you are playing with a ton of terrain like you should be. and a lot of Z axis elements like you should then there is a lot of LOS blocking stuff to make the "meh" range of 18 inches not that amazing.

From what little i have played its almost required to deck them out with a photo visor and a clip harness. that lets you dip in out and down buildings and laugh at the cover the other guy is using.

There is a drone you can take that has a burst cannon to start with. that has come in handy. however what i have honestly gotten the most use out of is the drone that gives your pulse carbines +6 inches of long range. That lets a handfull of pathfinders sit tight and play like a sinper while your others can act like special forces and repel down a building to shoot the bad guys 2 levels down from them.
>>
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Where in the book does it say how many grots the grot slaver can come with. It says if he only has one its mean, but it does not say how many he can have.
>>
>>52830518
Strangler is large blast, remember that anyone hit is knocked on their arse.
>>
>>52831540
On his profile, he gets D6 grots.
>>
>>52831495
from my fighting against tau, this seems to be the case.

Just don't let anybody with a frag grenade near your accelerator drone nest...
>>
>>52821100
Top fluff
>>
>>52831557
shiiiiit, how did I miss that. Who pays attention to the names.
>>
>>52827479
That's because you shouldn't play seriously something you enjoy. Playing SW:A seriously will turn in into another powerwank fest.
>>
>>52830018
There are apps available for your phone that simulates artillery and scatter dice.
>>
>>52828175
Thanks cunt
>>
>>52830918
It's literally impossible for 2 vs 2 to happen. Try placing four miniatures in a configuration where all bases touch all other bases. Did it work? No.
>>
>>52830064
What's the optimal loadout for a melee CSM troop? Bolt pistol, chainsword, MoK?
>>
>>52831418
It's impossible for multiple combatants on both sides to happen.
>>
>>52831477
Nice work. Make walkways in different lengths as well.
>>
Just been invited to play with some friends and i've been looking at the sets on GW's site.

Leaning towards tau, elder or grey knights at the moment.
>>
>>52831934
Sets are mainly shit. That's kinda the best part of SW, you can buy what you need on model-per-model basis on e-bay or at your local FLGS if they have markets.
Usually you just need one box of troops and a few separate models for special ops.
>>
>>52831477
Is that a cyber mastiff? please show us a closeup if you can!
>>
>>52831855
You don't need that though, as the ones on the same team don't need to touch.
>>
>>52829867
wait, your evis save mod is -13?
good god, how i hate fan dexes
>>
>>52831957
Unfortunately it's not GW, it's from a game called Wild West Exodus. I got it for Dark Heresy, my character is a Cyber Mastiff Handler Techpriest.
>>
>>52831962
Yes you do. If you have two on both sides it's impossible for each model on each side to touch both models on the other side at the same time.
>>
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>>52831977
>>52831957
>>
>>52831973

No, it's a fixed strength weapon. Those don't get the strength mod to damage.

It's why a Chainsword has a -2 save mod.
>>
I've got a question about close combat.
If I attack with someone armed with CCW and pistol, I make every second attack with each.

So let's say i score 5 hits with my ork boy. He attack 3 times with choppa and 2 times with slugga.

Does the slugga attacks needs to make an ammo roll, or i just roll to wound with its S value and armor modifier?

Or pistol weapon counts as just shank where I don't pull the trigger.

Also, having 2 CCW or CCW and pistol grants extra attack dice (just like in 40k?).
>>
>>52831973

That's the same strength and save mod as a chainfist. They made up other rules for it but that's already done by the devs.
>>
>>52832003
you don't make to hit rolls with the pistols, so you can't trigger ammo rolls...
>>
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>>52831978
Impossible? It's trivial. Centre them on a parallelogram.
>>
>>52832003
You get +1 A for ttacking with two weapons, but cycle through them. If you get an odd number of hits, you choose which weapon deals more hits. Pistols just use their strength and armor mod, even if they are sustained fire/template/blast. I think you skip ammo tests.
>>
>>52831998
>No, it's a fixed strength weapon. Those don't get the strength mod to damage.
Is there a rule for that? I only remember it for shooting weapons.
>>
>>52832035
You're right. I was thinking of the team mates having to touch as well, although you specifically pointed out they don't have to. That's what I get for not listening I guess. :)
>>
>>52829723
I thought /s was only necessary for redditors, bit here it is for you: /s
>>
>>52832040

Armour Modifiers in the Hand to Hand section.
>The chart below is used to determine saving throws when the wielders own strength is used.

It's not using the wielders own strength. Just like pistols.
>>
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>>52832084
>>52832040
made this mistake to guys , melee weapons that modify the wielders strength still get the extra bonus on top
it explicitly states so but not near the armor save modifier bit because that would make to much sense
>>
>>52831784
How could swa even become a powerwank?
>>
>>52832190
Well, I got raped by Harlequinns as GSC. Now I'm bringing a few webbers to the campaign, and I already see that half of participants are bringing Harlequins and Nids.
>>
>>52832201
That's why you play campaigns and not single games. The game is fast enough for that.
>>
Finally, a game where all the chainsword+plasma pistol sister superior models make sense!
Where the daemon's at though?
>>
>>52832187

Yeah. Fixed strength weapons like the Chainsword however have it already built in. So that Evicerator stats is Str 8 with a -2 mod if I'm doing basic math right. Could be wrong at this hour.
>>
>>52825267
>executioner greatblade has a profile but no one can use it since it's not present in the weapons and equipment list
Nice job GW.
>>
>>52832232

Honestly, I'm more interested in the fact they get access to Storm Bolters. That's basically a third special weapons guy.

Still, WS 4 and the ability to declare one turn 'Fuck you, I basically can't fumble' is pretty nice. Honestly a lot better than either of the other faith powers. The repentia one is downright pathetic when it's tied into using it the exact same turn as everyone else.

That and the Repentia isn't really that great at fighting. The Arcoflangelant is so much better in the same role out of the two new lists.
>>
>>52832252
Look again. Death cult assassins can swap their weapons for it.
>>
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Do you think the new book we'll have updated writing or anything? Or do you think GW will take the lazy route and just copy the old book with the online factions posted in?
>>
>>52832252
It's for the death cult assassin
>>
>>52832305
What do you think? It's GW.
>>
>>52832305
They are currently working on a FAQ so I'm guessing the more critical stuff goes in the book, while the rest goes in the FAQ
>>
>>52832250
an eviscerator is st user+3
so it acts as a modifier to the user's strength and thus gets the full bonus of it's innate rend at user strength +3 on top of it's base save modifier of -3
donno where you're getting this strength 8 from

you are correct on the chainsword however , since it's just a flat st 4 weapon
>>
>>52832292

God damn. That makes them fucking terrifying.
>>
>>52832252
At least read before complaining
>>
>>52832335
??? i cant find a rule named rend anywhere
>>
>>52832335

People were talking about >>52829867 as someone said the Evicerator in that had a -13 armour mod.
>>
>>52832292

Man, I really wish my SOB had Death Cultists/Crusaders as Spec Ops. Which is kinda funny when the are ecclessiarchal troops.
>>
>>52832335
What a confusing mess,i assumed the mods would apply to all hand to hand weapons
>>
>>52832305
the book really could do with some restructuring
the leader's 6 inch use my initiative and ld for escape pinning and break tests bubble should be mentioned when break and escaping pinning are explained, the 20 boys and 3 specialists for ig should be mentioned on their faction page and then the whole thing about armor save modifier in melee should be clearly explained on the same page
>>
>>52832354
It's hardly a mess. There are two kinds of close combat weapons: those that modify the user's profile, and those that have their own. It's only confusing because they don't make this distinction clear.
>>
>>52826341
It doesn't say that any of those guys have extra arms.

Which is an issue since acolyte models can have two, three or four arms.
>>
>>52832463
So... it is confusing then, since they do not make the distinction clear
>>
>>52820096
>Driving every single predator closer and closer to extinction
>Have utterly and completely removed major threats to their existence in every continent that isn't africa or tropical asia, and those predators are rapidly declining and couldn't pose any kind of existential threat to anything but isolated communities

Yeah but humans are shit predators my man. Like, jeeze our principal method of predation, guns aren't even good. It's not like you can build them to vaporize a chunk out of whatever meat you shoot with them or to go through tank armour.

oh wait we have entire industries dedicated to doing those things cheaper, faster, more efficiently and requiring less effort that turn in billions every year and are capable of murdering the biosphere of earth if we really wanted too with our other weapons.

it's almost like weapon symbiotes add a tactical flexibility to the tyranids as well as weapons capable of meeting and exceeding their major existential threat: tool making species like us and the eldar or tau, while also being capable of massively protracted engagements just as much as they are prolonged sieges because they only require a single resource

>Food

No bullets, no electricity, no logistics of any kind, only organic chemistry. Compounds found across the universe.

KYS
>>
>>52825267
>https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf

No IG vets killteam?
>>
>>52832617
maybe read the base rules, mate
>>
>>52832617
You're in the core rules and still complaining? IG fags are the worst
>>
>>52814393
>Inquisition
>Base Weapons: Sniper Rifles
Finally i can use this model in my retinue as intended instead of as a proxy
>>
>There is no bayonett option for autoguns
>Not even Sob get sarissas
SAD
>>
>>52832687

Yeah between that and the utterly terrifying inquisitor leader option, going Inquisition seems pretty good.
>>
SWA seems like such a fucking mess. Am I the only who thinks this? I'm having a really hard time FINDING WHERE WHAT RULES SAYS WHAT...

I don't even know where to look how I create my Chaos Space Marine Kill-Team. I have the merged file for all the armies, but it doesn't state how many I can have in my KT, whereas for AM, Scouts and Orks it does say in the "big rulebook".

Anyone care to help me out?
>>
>>52832813
>I don't even know where to look how I create my Chaos Space Marine Kill-Team.
Maybe try the chapter called "creating a kill team"?
You just apply the common rules in the core rulebook except for any exceptions stated in their respective army entries.
IE CSM is 1 Leader, 2 Specialists, has to be a size of 3-10, and cultists don't suddenly turn into csm after 3 games
>>
>>52832687

Mind you, Inquisition gets no access to Shooting until you hit the actual Inquisitor.

Still, 100% access to Guerrilla means you can have all the dosh and medics you could ever want.
>>
>>52832889
As is fitting.
>>
>>52832875
I re-read the entries.
I gotta say, this book is the worst rulebook I've ever read.

Horrible writing and pisspoor quality. I just don't understand why they've chosen to write about AM, scouts and orks in such a way that it seems the main rulebook is only about them and then release the other teams as PDFs.

I started reading "Choosing the kill team" from the main rulebook and I stopped because I thought it was about those three factions.

Glad I didn't invest in this shit
>>
>>52832938
Don't blame the rulebook for you being retarded.
>I started reading "Choosing the kill team" from the main rulebook and I stopped because I thought it was about those three factions.
I can just assume you are trolling with this.

>Horrible writing and pisspoor quality. I just don't understand why they've chosen to write about AM, scouts and orks in such a way that it seems the main rulebook is only about them and then release the other teams as PDFs.
Because that's how it went. It was generally intended as a oneoff game like any other boxed game, and the pdf is just thrown together by what the guys in the studios kinda wanted to play in their own campaigns
>>
>>52825786
Never, because SM have DW specialists.

Same reason Tyranids don't have Genestealers, because GSC have them as Specialists.
>>
>>52832952
>I can just assume you are trolling with this.

Why? The opening lines under "Maximum number of fighters" reads:
>"A Space Marine Scouts or Astra Militarum Veterans kill team can have up to 10 models. An Orks Boyz kill team can have up to 20 models."

WELL, I'm obviously not playing those factions, that doesn't aplpy to me.
It still doesn't say how many guys I can have, whereas if you look at for example the Gerenstealer Cults entry in the merged faction file you can clearly see that they have their own rules.

CSM doesn't have anything written down and I can just assume that there is no cap RAW
>>
>>52832997
>CSM doesn't have anything written down and I can just assume that there is no cap RAW
Oh, you are autistic. Then i can see why this can be a problem for you. Not trying to sound mean, but for most players that isn't really a problem.
>>
>>52832997
>Playing CSM.
>You didn't even think to make the leap of logic that you might want to follow the restriction for basic SM.
>>
>>52833013
I will not play like that, but I'm just saying, if I were to go RAW CSM is unplayable.
I'm a RAI kinda guy, and I will play with max 10 dudes.

Rules are shoddy as fuck still.

>>52833024
I'm giving examples of poorly written fucking rules you idiot
>>
Plasma pistols in close combat. Can I choose the profile? Do I ignore ammo rolls? I want to make a CSM Cypher stand-in.
>>
>>52833034
If you want examples of poorly written shite you should try re-reading your own posts.
Keep it up and GW might even decide to hire you for your outstanding talent.
>>
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>>52833060
And you respond with memes

winning the internet
>>
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>>52833084
Nice damage control there.
>How is that working for you?
>>
>>52833052
>ck and exp
You chose the profile, I don't remember the ammo roll one, don't end up in melee often.
>>
>>52833034
>>52833060
I freely admit they're not written as tightly as they should be, but i don't think there is noting outlandish that can't just be dealt with by common sense.
>>
>>52833084
>>52833125
Can you faggots stop dickwavering and let's just agree that this entire release could have been handled better?

Thank you
>>
>>52833052
You don't make a "To Hit" roll in melee, you make an attack roll. So it can't even come up.
>>
>>52833052
As long as it's not already jammed you can.
>>
>>52833152
That's why I'm asking. Ammo roll is supposed to be stronger profile's drawback. But if I don't make the roll and can still use the stronger profile for my melee hits... Yeah, that would be sweet but a bit too OP.
>>
Inquisitor -225
Storm Bolter 55
Storm Shield 50

Crusader 85
Rad Grenades 35
Bolt Pistol 25

Crusader 85
Rad Grenades 35
Bolt Pistol 25

Inquisitorial Acolyte 65
Sniper Rifle + Toxic Rounds 60

Inquisitorial Initiate 50
Bolter 35

Inquisitorial Initiate 50
Bolter 35

Inquisitorial Initiate 50
Bolter 35

How does this look for an inquisition warband? Bolt Pistols seemed like a decent starting weapon for crusaders as they are both a shooting weapon and a melee weapon only a hair worse than a Chainsword. Getting them storm shields in the future is a top priority.

The inquisitor is the only one that can get shooting but at the same time, they get some nice ranged weapons and I'm hesitant to try to focus on melee for my very human dudes. I'm actually thinking of giving the Inquisitor the job of 'Primary bodyblocker' for my sniper. He's got a 3++ and 3 wounds. They can take a lot of fire before my Acoltyte get risked and the storm bolter has good enough range to tag most things.
>>
>>52833189
Remember to buy your inquisitor your +1I upgrade for 10pts!

..aka Power Armour. Inq has Carapace Armour so thats -1I.
>>
>>52833215

I was tempted but it would require cutting stuff elsewhere.
>>
>>52833189
Why not just play csm or sm
This list lacks flair
>>
>>52833215
I'm not sure if the studio realized that the 10 points get you more than a better armour save
>>
>>52833267

Sadly I didn't have enough to pay for the nature boy.

I'm not really sure how to fix 'lacking flair'.
>>
>>52825267
Does this mean plastic Sisters...?
>>
>>52833189
Looks like waaclist instead of a flufy inquisitorial list
The point of a retinue is that they are unique and interesting, think more like eisenhorn
>>
>>52833309
There is some "Big announcement" coming later today.
>>
>>52833307
Inquisition is about its toyx and unorthdox warfare, spamming bolts is more in line with space marines sororitas
>>
>>52833313

Sadly I can't get a Daemonhost.

Should I go more with Acolytes rather than initiates? Initiates can't really use melee weapons worth a damn and that's where the list actually gets any unusual stuff. The ranged is 'Las/Bolt/Shot/Sniper'.

>>52833325

All the recommendations I've seen in these threads were 'Boys before toys'. I was planning to use my first resupply to get Storm Shields for the Crusaders so they can go Bolt Pistol + Shield (And later adding Mauls) to have some Arbites.
>>
Anyone have any tips on how to build a SM Scout list?
>>
Man the inquisitor list is lack luster. No special weapons to speak of, besides sniper rifles of all things.
Makes creating a fluffy inquisitor warband complete with xeno purging mad flamer more difficult. Instead we can make a list where we get to choose which of the standard faction weapon we want to use instead, great.
>>
>>52833478
Sniper+toxic rounds
Camo gear where you can
>>
>>52833513

I love the Inquisition list. You want them to be redemptionists, which they aren't. It isn't even a Hereticus team.

They are perfectly fluffy. The focus is the Inquisitor and the Crusaders with the acolytes/initiates as goons.
>>
>>52833557

Though, speaking of such things. How do you think Hereticus and Mallus teams would work differently?

Seems like it would be easy to do. A little skill change and you've got half of it done. That and 2-3 special toys for the inquisitor should do it.
>>
>>52833557
I guess I'm just salty cause I broke and couldn't wait any longer for the rules to drop to start building a kitbash inquisitor squad. 90% through a flamer acolyte that i now can't use.
>>
>>52833612

I'd like Malleus to have a psyker and a demonhost special operative. Hereticus I'd make their recruits cheaper and spread around some flamers and eviscerators.

>>52833643

I understand how you feel. I was hoping they'd be able to take a heavy stubber as I had a cool conversion planned with the Genestealer initiate heavy stubber model.

You can always convince people to play Inquisimunda. That is a better long term campaign game.
>>
>>52833612
>>52833662

Also my idea for the demonhost would be that when you use it all other team members but the Inquisitor stay home, similar to the Solitare. If the inquisitor goes down the demonhost is unshackled and gets a stat buff and rampages around, though the INQ team counts as losing the game.
>>
>>52833612
>How do you think Hereticus and Mallus teams would work differently?
Thing is, hereticus and malleus already have their teams. They just decided to delegate shit, while the xenos guys get stuck in.
>>
>>52833662
I don't understand why they don't have choices for the different inquisitor orders.

It seems like more options would always be the better option for the game. Inquisitor's are pretty much the convertor faction of choice since GW has so few models for them and the lore is so fluffy.

I guess maybe they're worried that inquisitors would get too much representation compared to the other factions?
>>
>>52833713
>I don't understand why they don't have choices for the different inquisitor orders.

Because as >>52833708 already said they have the order militants for Malleus and Hereticus. I'd be fine with more kill team lists but they have covered most factions.

If GW have any brains they will bring out Shadow War: Inquisition at some point considering how popular Inquisimunda is among old Necrominda players.
>>
>>52833708

Sisters are not the Hereticus order any more.
>>
>>52833683

That would be kinda cool. If the inquisitor goes down, you auto-lose. Which means a game where both players can lose.
>>
So if you're not going to buy a storm shield for your Crusader is there any reason to get one over a regular Acolyte? Since they can have WS 4 too.
>>
>>52834253
They also start with carapace and get access to the muscle skills. Not sure if that's worth the 20 points or not though.
>>
>>52834253
not particularly, but having 3++ beaters is kinda handy in this game
>>
>>52834344
the 20 points is the cost of upgrading flak to carapace.
>>
>>52833708
>>52833774
Correction, Sisters were never a part of the Ordo Hereticus. They were their own thing.
They do tend to get along pretty well, though.
So, when are they gonna add Custodes and Sisters of Silence to completely unbalance the rape train?
>>
>>52834669
Considering we're way past the bump limit I'm going to remind you that this was a one-of game made to test some aspects to 8th edition rules and to fill a hole in their production line between their actual goalposts.

>This is what we get.
>There is not much more money for GW to make on this game considering the potential gains of their other probable projects.
> I still want my pure admechs and better Cron-rules.
>>
>>52834405

That and you also get better advancement. More toys for melee.

Though I must admit, I'm tempted to go Plasma Pistols with them all eventually. It's a Str 7 melee weapon and a gun!
>>
I'd like to create my own Space Marine chapter for Shadow War but I don't have access to the rules yet. I want to create a decorated team of veterans by mixing the sternguard with normal tactical marines but is this possible with the rules?
>>
>>52834756
There is only scouts, no full marines.
>>
>>52834756
No.
>>
>>52834739
> made to test some aspects to 8th edition rules
man, no

it's just necromunda
>>
>>52834772
Does that mean you can have the most handsome marine scout as your leader?
>>
>>52834772
So veterans are only scouts? How come GW has a bundle for Shadow War including terminators and a command squad with scouts?
>>
>>52834756

The rules are right up there in the opening post.

Also: No.
>>
>>52832708
The ogryn ripper gun has a bayonet. It acts like a knife. I am sure you can use models with bayonets in the same way for other teams than AM. Just tell your group and point to the ripper gun rules.
>>
>>52834833
They can be taken as special operatives. A character that only sticks around for one match before you have to buy him again.
>>
>>52834830
If you wanted to.

>>52834833
They're listed as special operatives, which can't be used every game.
>>
>>52832813
Unless stated otherwise, 3-10 units, max 50% of your team can be new recruits, max 2 specialists and you must have exactly one leader.
>>
>>52834872
>>52834876
Are there any good fan rules for normal marines? I'm not fond of the scout models.
>>
>>52832938
>Horrible writing and pisspoor quality. I just don't understand why they've chosen to write about AM, scouts and orks in such a way that it seems the main rulebook is only about them

Because they are the main forces that fought in this particular war as per the fluff. The other factions are released as an add on for those who want to play other similar conflicts.
>>
>>52833052
Most likely yes. Hopefully this will be clarified in the upcoming FAQ.
>>
>>52833052
You don't make to hit rolls in melee so no ammo rolls either. However, if your pistol has failed an ammo roll in shooting previously in the fight you cannot use it in melee.
>>
>>52834739
Let me remind you that you are fabrication. You don't have any evidence that is the case. I know because I spoke to gw employees about the game several weeks prior to its release and their motivations.
>>
>>52835083
*fabricating even
>>
What is the consensus about Heavy Flamers for Sisters?

+ Can buy one during 1 rearm without spending a cache.
+ Can put one on overwatch in a bottleneck to make sure no one charges through to the other shooty sisters.
+ Good against Solitaires.

- I'd just feel better using my specialist slot for a Heavy Bolter, Multi-Melta or Meltagun w/ Red Dot after the first few games.
- No range or ability to improve the weapon with sights.
- Flamer ammo is always dodgy.




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