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prog·ress
noun
noun: progress
/ˈpräɡres/

1.
a series of convenient mistakes.
"the darkness did not stop my progress"

Trove (etc.): http://pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd
Looking For Group: https://discord.gg/qaku8y9
Blogosphere: http://pastebin.com/ZwUBVq8L
In-browser tools: http://pastebin.com/KKeE3etp

Prior: >>53241648

>Discussion:
What makes for good food-for-thought?
>>
>>53282542
>What makes for good food-for-thought?
Fish.
>>
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https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-session-4.html

Session 4 is up. The PCs spent approximately 20 minutes in the dungeon. They got next to no XP. They all nearly died enacting a stupid, stupid plan. But at least they learned a very valuable lesson; potions are temporary.
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>>53282542
>What makes for good food-for-thought?
Brains?

What if an insane drow/dwarf/human became a "mind flayer"-flayer who went around killing illithids and eating their brains?
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>>53282542

The Fey children of the wilds, lost boys and girls who playful fairies dress up in animal costumes, are ageless beings of imagination. The best way to eat thoughts is to have a fake meal, pretending to eat food, which slowly becomes more and more real the more you believe that it's real.

Sticklers, the mundane, geomantic wizards, and crotchety old assholes will probably starve in the company of the lost boys. If they didn't get kicked out first, since obviously in the topsie turvey world of the fae wilds the kids are in charge and grown ups do what they are told.

>food for thought
Oh, I read thought for food, my bad.
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>>53282652
Probably die of prion diseases?
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>>53282708
>What if an insane drow/dwarf/human became a "mind flayer"-flayer who went around killing illithids and eating their brains?

>>53282708
>Probably die of prion diseases?

This. But IN THE MEANTIME

Dungeon Meat Part 3: Illithid Brains

Taste like horrible noodles spiced with vanilla, sulphur, and tallow. No texture at all, really. You could drink them with a straw.

Roll - Result

1-2: Prion Disease. Lose 2 points of Intelligence. If your Intelligence ever drops below 4, you have a 50% chance of becoming enraged until you die. Otherwise, you twitch and drool. You twitch and drool no matter what. Bring napkins.

3-4: Slimy. Save vs Con or lose any benefit from the meal, and spend the rest of the day queasy and gassy.

5. Memory Burst. Save vs Int or take 2 damage as an extremely vivid memory bursts into your brain. It might be one of the Illithid's. It might be a victim's. It might be both.

6-7: Mind Blast. As per the Illithid's power, fired in a random direction.

8. It's Eating Me! Save or slowly mutate into a Mind Flayer over the next 1d10+1 days. You retain all memories but your motivations become alien and cruel.

9. Mind Powers! Gain the Mind Blast ability once per day, permanently.

10. So Wise! Gain +1 Intelligence and Wisdom. If your Intelligence goes over 18, your brain plops out of your body and flies away. Your body still operates normally (the brain made a backup of your original personality, with Int 12, out of your liver and gallbladder), but your brain is off to explore strange new dimensions and experiences.
>>
>>53282652
> What if an insane drow/dwarf/human became a "mind flayer"
But this doesn't address the issue of class. Have you forgotten that the core classes of Fighter, Mage, Thief are the quintessential classes of common culture in regards to fantasy? Ultimately, the game is all about everyone being able to do everything. There can be no healing if everybody can't heal.
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>>53283166
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>>53283166

Haha look at how triggered this faggot is.
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>>53283166
The quintessential classes of common culture are the proletariat, the bourgeoisie, and the philosopher-kings.
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>>53283166
But this doesn't address the issue of class. Have you forgotten that the core classes of Fighter, Mage, Cleric are the quintessential classes of common culture in regards to fantasy? Ultimately, the game is all about everyone being able to do everything. There can be no thieving if everybody can't thieve.
>>
>>53283166
>Thief
r e e
>>
What are the most important, core spells you feel should be in every retroclone or game?

Or do you think they should be a bit more unique to the game/setting?
>>
>>53283653
magic missile

NOT
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>>53283653
Cure light wounds, sleep, charm person/monster, light, fire ball.
>>
>>53283653
If your shitty homebrew doesn't diverge too far to use the TSR spells, you should just use the TSR spells verbatim.
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I haven't finished adding all the odds and ends, but does this seem too complex for a 1st level dungeon for a bunch of RPG newbies?
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>>53284134
No. But the map is just one part of the game. The most important part is your refereeing abilities.
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>>53284134
What kind of place is the dungeon?
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Do you use dinosaurs in your game?
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>>53282541
1+STR if you're human
2+STR if you have claws (but not monstrous claws that deal dices of damage)
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>>53285269
Of course!
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>>53282647
>Blue guy descends from the heavens
>"Thoooommaaaaas", the flying wizard bellowed as he ran towards camp. "Your Wizard Student Loans are past due!"

Didn't expect that to be honest
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>>53283711

The TSR skills are fucking trash my dude.

Every single spell is written in an almost trollish way that sucks all the fun out of some spells, while leaving other spells as vague as possible. Fun and interesting spell effects are randomly spread out among different spell levels with seemingly no thought or reason behind them, beyond damage spells, with very little reason to ever prepare your limited number of spells with utility or defense spells when you can and should just be using 1 shot win the game encounter buttons like Sleep and Color Spray.

Honestly I don't care how much OSR sucks gygax/1st edition dick, no designer has the right to put a spell like Ventriloquism in the same list, requiring the same resources, both being potential starting spells, as fucking Sleep. It's unacceptable.
>>
>>53285910
there's a reason I often contemplate having a lot of the Level 1 spells just be 4e style At-Will Cantrips that don't count towards your spells per day limit
>>
>>53285910
Most of the TSR spells' purpose is to exist as scrolls.
>>
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I'll be hosting a B/X game at an upcoming (non-/tg/) convention and wanted to make the character sheet a little more explicit to make it easier. The game will be a dungeon crawl without leveling; the characters will be levels 2 and 3. It's still a few weeks away and this is drafty, but can I get some criticism? I started with the 1980 Record Sheet and tried to spell out some stuff.

Notes:
Since this is going to be a short (2-4 hours) dungeon crawl without leaving to a town, there probably won't be much money/treasure.
I'm leaning towards pre-generating all of the characters.
The spells section is the one section I think needs a bit of work.

Here's the front
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>>53286260
and the back
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Say, is The Hell House Beckons in the trove somewhere? I can't find it.
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>>53285269
My game is set in the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Just about the first thing that happened to the party was nearly being run over by a stampede of dinosaurs chased by a T-rex.

Most of them were 5e-babbies, but no longer.
>>
>>53286260
Looks fine mang. If you are pre-genning, maybe write out the spells beforehand in machine type. Depends on how legible your handwriting is.
>>
>>53285301
>deterministic outcome
Quit breaking kayfabe.
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>>53285910
It is totally acceptable. Your autism should disqualify you from ever writing again
>>
>>53286260
>>53286276
Neat, although I'd recommend making the fonts more consistent.

Look for ITC Souvenir Std Bold, you can find it for free easy enough.
>>
I'm reading the Basic Rulebook #1 and it says that newer players should be discouraged from taking retainers and instead simply be given multiple characters.

Why?
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>>53287565
Probably because retainers add another layer of complexity to dungeon crawling, and new players might get frustrated that some dude they hired decides to flee or do something stupid.
>>
>>53287615
So should I just say "roll up 2 characters each, 8 characters in total", and stock the dungeon with shitloads of treasure?
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>>53285055
Level one is pretty much "generic dungeon", level two is going to be vaults and catacombs, level three is a mix between unfinished manmade rooms and natural caverns like B1. I figure I'd use Table V. F. to stock the whole thing.
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>>53287791
Huh, I'm working on a dungeon and had a vaguely similar idea for mine.
>>
>>53287772
I don't think you should add more treasure to accommodate, just leave it at a level you want it to be. The game gets easier the more character go in the dungeon, so the xp reward should as a result be lower.
>>
Is Basic Fantasy RPG old-school? Is it closer to AD&D 1 or 2?
>>
>>53287958
It's closest to B/X with a few minor tweaks to streamline it.
>>
>>53287958
It's a retroclone, which makes it somewhat old-school. It's most closely related to B/X D&D.
>>
I've been reading Fight On! and Knockspell for inspiration and ideas lately, and they've been pretty great. Any other magazines in the trove that'd be on a similar level of quality, or even greater?
>>
Decided on having 3 F/C/T/MU and 2 D/E/H pre-generated characters. Filling out 18 character sheets took a lot longer than I thought it would.

>>53286747
I decided to hand write it, looks legible. Even if there was a problem I'll have the rulebook with me.

>>53287311
Thanks.
>>
>>53287791
>>53287814
Mine is the same way...
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>>53289400
Black Pudding is pretty decent if some minor tongue-in-cheek furfaggotry doesn't turn you off. Brave the Labyrinth is okay and usually has at least one thing reading per issue. Gygax Magazine has actual production values. Honestly most zines are so lightweight that you can just mass download them all and skim through everything in an afternoon.
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>>53292019
Black Pudding isn't in the trove.
>>
>>53292093
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/199081/Black-Pudding-1
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/202044/Black-Pudding-2

It's Pay What You Want, ie, free.
>>
Is there a low ink version of the Lower Level of In Search of the Unknown? Alternatively, should I just ditch the lower level for a one-shot?
>>
>>53285788
You do not want to get Wizard Student Loans. I'll write a post on them eventually. They're non-dischargeable, even in death, and Wizards will try and find ways of keeping you out of heaven.

Luckily, if you join the King's Army, most of your debt is wiped away. They don't tell you this until you're about to graduate.
>>
Anyone know where I might be able to see a find a PDF of the D30 Sandbox Companion? If it's in the trove I can't find it.
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>>53283342
>The quintessential classes of common culture are the proletariat, the bourgeoisie, and the philosopher-kings.

Fund it.

Sneaky proletariat, doing sneaky underhanded things like organizing and having hundreds of babies. Bourgeoisie, doing important things like fighting each other, the other classes, and their own livers. Philosopher-kings, who sound really powerful in practice but can only do things once or twice a day and need a lot of prep time.

Together, they raid the Less Developed World for loot.
>>
>>53284134
I like the shading to indicate secret areas.

>does this seem too complex for a 1st level dungeon for a bunch of RPG newbies?
No. If anything, I'd make it technically *more* complicated by adding one more stairway to the surface and one or two down (one direct to level 3, a third to level 2).
>>
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>>53294124
>I like the shading to indicate secret areas.

Oh shit, that's a cool idea. Stolen.

>>53284134
Looks good.

>>53287791
That's about as generic as it gets, so congratulations. Not sarcastic, good job. And

>>53287814
>>53291916
Yup. You could call a dungeon like this Plato's Cave because it's ideally formed. And yes, I'm mixing up my two philosophical concepts deliberately to make a joke. Sue me.
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>>53294104
I think I'm gonna offer to run that game to the local communist students organisation, from what I've seen they love boardgames.
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>>53294269
>I think I'm gonna offer to run that game to the local communist students organisation, from what I've seen they love boardgames.

Post your homebrew hack here then. The shittier the better. Even using a find+replace function would be entertaining.
>>
>>53294316
Anyone have the bayou reskin of I6?
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>>53294067
It's not in the trove anymore. The creators of it shut down our trove several times for adding their stuff. Check the sharethread, they might be able to help you there.
>>
>>53292019
>Black Pudding
J. V. West makes a lot of good shit. I bought his Rabbits & Rangers supplement to run Zootopia-styled OSR games.
>>
>>53294931
This thing?
I would've made more but converting the text from PDF to Word back to PDF again is a real pain.
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>>53296314
I hope you get the motivation to do more. It's not only good typing practice, it's a hilarious and useful idea.

And surely, the "Word to PDF" step is pretty trivial. The PDF -> word, yes, especially if the document is badly OCR'd, but that's what rapid transcription typing is for.
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>>53296395
>A nozzle dispenses acid
>C nozzle dispenses cobras

What's the logic behind the harpy? Did he just run into a wandering monster?
>>
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>>53296663
H knob dispenses Harpies. He only turned it a little bit, so only one harpy came out. Normally it's a swarm.
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>>53296718
Oh I actually didn't see him hit that despite watching like 3 times.

thanks
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>>53297051
>Oh I actually didn't see him hit that despite watching like 3 times.

Eh, so it goes.

Also, general question for the thread. What are the High Elves up to in your setting?
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>>53296663
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>>53297095
Most of the high elves were in their capital city as of three sessions ago. Now, about half of that population would be dead. A quarter are working for mind-flayers. The other quarter are trapped in their city that got sucked into the winter court's demiplane.

RIP high elves.
>>
>>53289400
>I've been reading Fight On! and Knockspell for inspiration and ideas lately, and they've been pretty great.

>Check out Fight On! on your recommendation
>Dwarf quirk table

I love this already.
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>>53297095
>What are the High Elves up to in your setting?
Mostly trying to get their shit back together after a calamitous meteor impact fucked their shit up. Massive earthquakes, crop failures, and the giant trees they made cities in coming to life and murdering the ever loving fuck out of them unhorsed them pretty good. Worse, it allowed those pesky humans seize power, so now they have worry about wars with them too. It's been a rough last millennium for them.
>>
>>53297095
The goblins have pleateud by forming ties with industry, but the elves as a whole are on the decline. There's just not enough nature to go around anymore.
There are a handful of Elf Barons and a few Elf Princes drawing power from otherwise elf-less forests and mountain ranges; but broadly speaking, elves don't advance that far.
There are two Elf Kings left, but they swore loyalty to Evilwizard MacSettingbackground. And he had them buried alive in his tomb, Chinese-Emperor's-servants style.
>>
>>53297095
>What are the High Elves up to in your setting?

After they collectively botched a culture-wide magical megaproject they pretty much ended up as boogeymen. Now they only exist in places where there are reflections and are only visible in the reflection. If something takes it away they're locked in stasis until something else reflective comes along. They're also conscious the entire time.
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>>53297095
Living in the Faerie Realm or on the Blessed Isles, far away from everyone else.
>>
Do any Anons know of a photograph containing both Arneson and Gygax?

>>53297095
> What are the High Elves up to in your setting?
Well, many perished in the explosion that destroyed the Egg of Coot. The few survivors were eaten by killer frogs, or were used in as pins in a bowling alley for giants.
>>
>>53297095
My setting only has Winged Elves, Amazon Elves, and Drow. But if it did have High Elves they would be Altmer-style assholes.
>>
>>53297836
Do the Winged Elves live higher than the Amazon Elves and Drow?
>>
>>53297857
Well, the Drow live on the Moon so it depends on the orbit.
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>>53298200
>Well, the Drow live on the Moon so it depends on the orbit.

I love the words appearing on my screen right now.
>>
>>53298200
>Winged Elves occasionally fly above the moon
>>
Thread Theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vbugK9N2KU
>>
What's the best way to do starting equipment?
>>
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>>53298528
>>
>>53298528
Haven't gotten a chance to use it yet, but I really like this
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>>53298236
Well, relatively speaking, during on the world's day-time side the Drow are "below" but on the night-time side they're "above". I suppose Winged Elves could fly into space if they really wanted to but it's kind of chilly in space and they like warm/temperate areas.

>>53298231
I've debated posting my woefully incomplete encounter tables here but I'm not sure they'd be inspiring (it's just names).
>>
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>>53297206
>RIP high elves.

Did the PCs do this? Oh wait, why am I even asking?

How did the PCs do this?

>>53297332
Astronomy is a neglected profession.

>>53297369
>There are two Elf Kings left, but they swore loyalty to Evilwizard MacSettingbackground. And he had them buried alive in his tomb, Chinese-Emperor's-servants style.

This, I like.

>>53297437
This is also good.

>>53298231
>Well, the Drow live on the Moon so it depends on the orbit.

Ah, yes.

Wait.

No, no, carry on.
>>
>>53298585
I might just fucking take >>53298541 and add the Set of Potions in Vials to that list.

The Premise: If you take the Set of Potions in Vials, you have no idea which potion is which.
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>>53298528
> What's the best way to do starting equipment?
No idea. Here's how I do it. You get the thing from your career, plus 1d10 copper pieces, 1 torch, and (if the adventure setup makes sense) a tent, backpack, and bedroll.
>>
>>53298627
>The Premise: If you take the Set of Potions in Vials, you have no idea which potion is which.
Why?
>>
>>53298528
Players have two minutes to write down as many items as they'd like.
Then you audit the list and cut everything past where they've run out of money.

Encourage the party to keep a running list of needed items somewhere in the notes.
>>
>>53298640
I'm not gonna lie. I took a quick look at it and saw Potion of the Burning Bowels, Sleeping Drug, Antidote, and just assumed there would be more beneficial potions on the list before I noticed it was all poisons.

I saw that and thought "here's a set of beneficial potions to start you off but one of them is burning bowels and you don't know which one"
>>
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>>53298640
You don't read Russian.
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>>53298680
This reminds me of a half baked idea I had, where I was reminded of that one Adventure Time character who speaks Korean and was tempted to make the ancient lost magical race of my setting speak korean.
>>
Anyway, all this High Elf stuff was helpful to get my brain churning, so I've posted a writeup of the Elf Wizard class for the GLOG system. It's got new spells, some art, and some descriptions of what elves are and what they do in my setting.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-elves-and-elf-wizards.html
>>
>>53298692
There's literally an rpg (or a board game, I forget) designed to teach you korean because the magic system is korean words.
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>>53298680
~~~~~ancient mysterious runes~~~~~
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>>53298702
>You can talk to a bird, and you can talk back.
You can talk to a bird, and *it can talk back.

And if I might make a suggestion, cantrip 3 should leave ungodly nasty scars (unless you're an elf).
>>
>>53298712
>There's literally an rpg (or a board game, I forget) designed to teach you korean because the magic system is korean words.

First off, that's hilarious.

Second, if I decide to double down on this idea, that could actually be useful. I don't speak korean.
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>>53298777
Fixed.

And nah. Elf Wizards are like gardeners. They go around and make the other races less hideous. Fixing blood and wounds so that they /look/ less nasty (but are still just as painful and damaging) is totally part of that.

There's also no* magical healing in this setting.

*Ok, no common heal spells that restore limbs, scars, etc. You heal HP with lunch and naps. You heal serious injuries with time or dying or big complicated magic spells.
>>
>>53298796
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/samjoko/magicians-a-language-learning-rpg

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111896/Magicians-Language-Learning-RPG

Neither do I, but their writing system is cool and pretty simple.

http://www.ryanestrada.com/learntoreadkoreanin15minutes/index.html

The actual language, on the other hand, I am not a linguist and do not know Korean. Your comment just reminded me of that kickstarter, which apparently came out.
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>>53297437
>After they collectively botched a culture-wide magical megaproject they pretty much ended up as boogeymen. Now they only exist in places where there are reflections and are only visible in the reflection. If something takes it away they're locked in stasis until something else reflective comes along. They're also conscious the entire time.

Found art for you.
>>
>>53298811
May want to consider adding the species tag to that article.

Is the font for the Magic Missile commentary deliberate?

>R: touch T: ground D: concentration
>Cast on a section of natural soil or stone.
R: touch T: *section of natural soil/stone D: concentration

>These Authority buried
*The Authority buried

And what sort of mutations will Elf Wizards mishap into?
Elf Wizard drawback in account, that sounds as damning than the Doom.
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>>53299014
My own personal copyeditor. Edits made.

>And what sort of mutations will Elf Wizards mishap into?

I roll a d4 to see which mutation table I use. There's a couple I found online and then the WH40k tables.

The results will depend on a) the spell being cast and b) the nature and race of the character.

Characters might go all palpatine-wrinkly. They might get luminous angel wings. They might get ethereal eyes that orbit their head or hideous teeth. It all depends.

Not nessesiarly a death sentence for an Elf. They tend to mutate beautifully.
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>>53298678
>before I noticed it was all poisons.
5 out of 10 are poisons.

Potion of Truth isn't directly beneficial, but (probably) isn't poison.
Ditto fro Sleeping Drugs, though that one probably is poison.
Beyond the two antidotes, there's also a panacea.
>>
>>53299090
Make sure "ears get longer" is on every one of their mutation lists.
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>>53299114
>>
So, has anyone here done what is conceptually a megadungeon (or simply a big regular dungeon) that incorporates aboveground areas?

I'd like to do what is effectively a megadungeon in all but RP minutiae but that includes an above ground smallish desert ruins and swamp area -- probably divided by a mountain, the differing water level being determined by a rain shadow.
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>>53297095
>What are the High Elves up to in your setting?

They're dead Jim. Are you a bad enough dude to brave the banshee haunted ruins and steal away their enchanted treasures back up into the light of mortal men? Watch out for the witchlights and wyrms.
>>
>>53299253
I've played a non-OSR megadungeon from 3-20 which didnt necessarily have above ground levels, but it had levels which simulated being above ground, portals to deserted islands, a world inside a clock and stuff.

Sounds like you could make the above area some form of hexcrawl though.
>>
>>53299253
>megadungeon
>incorporates aboveground areas

Barrowmaze?
>>
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>>53299126
>

>>53299306
I've done mid-dungeon hex crawls, but never "above ground."
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>>53283351
>those eyes
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>>53299547
You see those eyes and you're probably about to get mangled. Animal lords, in this case a cat lord, are pretty damn strong.
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>>53299575
No I mean, they look off. Like the artist drew the eyes before he had decided which direction the head was going to face.
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>>53289160
>>53289424
>>53290449
>>53290585
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Why is /osrg/ so slow last couple of days?
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>>53286999
I always find it hilarious that a certain class of magic-user player insists, even in osr-styled games, that they *need* to have the level of power that results in retarded 'linear/quadratic' arguments in later iterations of the game.
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>>53300133
If a character with all 18s doesn't hugely overshadow a character with all 3s, then your attributes really don't mean much. I mean, I'm in favor of a more balanced method of attribute determination than the standard dice model, but that doesn't particularly concern me.
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>>53300133
Is there some point to this? It's a neat piece of theorycrafting I guess but is it supposed to be a critique of the rules?
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>>53298616
>Astronomy is a neglected profession.

Ironically, the High Elves are obsessed with astronomy, and tracking celestial bodies, but just like modern day astronomy, meteors move so fast it's like they come out of fucking nowhere.
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>>53302552
Modern-day astronomy is actually pretty good at tracking meteors.
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>>53302557
Sorry,just woke up. I was thinking of those two large asteroids that barely missed us in the last few years, but maybe that was more the public not being aware, rather than astronomers.
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>>53298585
That looks really useful
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>>53298616
>How did the PCs do this
Actually, no. This was just a event that happened in the game that was largely unrelated to the PC's actions. The players aren't entirely aware it has happened yet, but it should be interesting.

The world moves on, with or without my players. They can enforce their will upon it, but only if they actively try.
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>>53302717
Barely missing, at interplanetary scale, is still missing by a fucking long way.
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What are your favorite non-TSR monsters, /osrg/?
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>>53303399
Pipefoxes and a few other Pathfinder monsters.

Warhammer wights.

Any trolls done right.
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>>53297095
>What are the High Elves up to in your setting?
Eugenics, mostly.
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>>53283351
Is this the /tg/ equivalent of /g/'s "If I could interject..." meme?
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>>53303949
Maybe /osrg/'s equivalent. /tg/'s would have something to do with GURPS.
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>>53302417
>Is there some point to this?
>>53287112
>>53287537
>>53288651
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>>53304313
Which baffles me. MAID is a better universal system.
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>>53303949
Only if you consider a meme to be a single asshole trying to troll and another guy counter-trolling.
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>>53305621
I still don't know why he replied to my post about mindflayers with FMUTposting.
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>>53306469
Because you dropped a conversation on that topic when the last thread died.
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If a magic sword says it's +1, is that to attack, damage or both?
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>>53306896
Both.

It's also more resistant to breakage, doesn't need to be sharpened or any of such, and should have at least something resembling a history and unique appearance, but that doesn't come up so often.
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Hey guys, are there any complete classless OSR systems? I'm just not a fan of "X guys cannot use Y weapon for arbitrary reason". Maybe not even classless, but ones without arbitrary restrictions?
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>>53307037
>I'm just not a fan of "X guys cannot use Y weapon for arbitrary reason".

I deal with this by using the weapon proficiencies from 2e and otherwise ditching weapon restrictions entirely. Fighters on first level get to use four weapons plus their intelligence bonus at first level. Wizards get precisely one with no intelligence bonus.
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>>53307037
>ones without arbitrary restrictions?
I think LotFP lets any class use any weapons/amour. If it really bothers you, just handwave all that away, it's not a complicated change.
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Anyone have a decent pdf of some interesting magical weapons and items? I need some inspiration.
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>>53307062
that's pretty cool, thanks

>>53307067
>LotFP
thanks, as for handwaving it away - wouldn't that screw some things up regarding magic users?
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>>53307291
Only if you let it. So what if the wizard can use a longsword now? He still has the worst hit dice and his to-hit is still behind everyone else.
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>>53307339
fair enough I suppose
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>>53307037
How is it arbitrary? It's there to make sure that fighters are the best at fighting.
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>>53307661
yeah, but, the reason most often given as to WHY other characters can't use heavy armor or heavier weapons is just... "lol you never trained with it so you can't even attempt to swing/wear it". Which is pretty bullshit, IMO
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>>53286580
>My game is set in the Wilderlands of High Fantasy
Mein Netherlaffer! I wish there was more love (and more resources) for this setting.
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>>53307765
Wizards can't use heavy armor or big weapons because they get in the way of spells, and occasionally because nearby iron interferes with magic.

Thieves can't use heavy armor because the helmet gets in the way of hearing things, you can't pick pockets or open locks with the gauntlets on, see traps with the visor down, or sneak around with all that heavy clanking bullshit.

This isn't hard, anon.
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>>53307765
I don't see why that's a good reason for removing weapon restrictions. Why do fighters have a higher hit die? "lol they are better at not dying or something"
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>>53307980
>implying thief skills aren't supernatural
m8

>>53307661
They've already got the biggest hit dice, the most attacks, most damage, most weapons, and most armor, they can afford to lose some features.
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>>53308018
>I don't see why that's a good reason for removing weapon restrictions.
You're not giving good reasons to keep them either.
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>>53308055
>implying thief skills aren't supernatural
>m8
If they were, then the iron slapped around them would mess up with all that supernatural stuff just as it messes up with wizard spells.
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>>53308071
See >>53307661

>>53308055
These are the only special abilities that the fighter has. He'll have an even harder time keeping up with the other classes at high levels if he doesn't have the exclusive ability of wearing powerful weapons and armor. .
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>>53307980
>Wizards can't use heavy armor or big weapons because they get in the way of spells
then they don't get to cast when wearing heavy armor or weapon

>Thieves can't use heavy armor because the helmet gets in the way of hearing things
then they don't get to thieve when wearing heavy armor or weapon

I think this makes more sense than flat out saying "no you can't"
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>>53307980
Gauntlets don't obstruct finger movement (and usually don't cover the underside of you hand).
Helmets barely obstruct hearing, but *help* for listening at doors (same principles as a cup against a door).
Traps with the visors down is a fair point, unless you raise the visor and move a bit slower.
You can move quietly in plate. It gets much easier if you using padding, but can be done either way.
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>>53308164
It takes a fair amount of training to be able to move properly in heavy armor. Given that it gets so much in the way of their abilities, and that it'd waste time they could instead spend to learn more thievery or a new spell, I feel it's perfectly reasonable they don't know how to do this shit.
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>>53308195
>It takes a fair amount of training to be able to move properly in heavy armor.
Insofar as it takes babies a fair amount of training to be able to move properly.
100% overlap in the skillsets though. If you can move, you can move in plate.
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>>53308234
So you're saying that it would take about a year of constant training to learn how to move around clumsily in armor? I think thieves and magic users would spend that time learning their profession.

Anyway, just remove the rules if you don't like them. All I'm saying is that the rules aren't arbitrary.
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>>53307037
Not that I know of, but if you have a look at the Stars Without Number beta 2nd edition, it has the makings of one. Just get rid of the classes and then build your character with the options provided. Maybe even look at ACKS proficiencies for extra inspiration.
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>>53307765
The reason why is because each class is abstracted in order to fill an archetype or role and has specific strengths and weaknesses and basically you don't need much more explanation than that.
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>>53308476
>If you can move, you can move in plate.
No, I'm saying it takes no extra training to use armor.

>Anyway, just remove the rules if you don't like them.
I appreciate what those rules at to the gameplay.
t. devil's advocate-pedant (latecomer to the argument)
>All I'm saying is that the rules aren't arbitrary.
They sort of are, though? They're rooted in maintaining archetypes.

Historically, Thieves didn't wear plate because it cost at least £4.
That's twice the annual pay for unskilled labor (before tax), or enough money to live *comfortably* for around a year.
Plate costs 60gp in Bx. Which is 5 years of unskilled labor... or 2 hours in the murder-hole.
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>>53308847
>No, I'm saying it takes no extra training to use armor.
But can you use it efficiently? Efficiently enough to get an AC bonus?

>I appreciate what those rules at to the gameplay.
I actually do. If I play a fighter, I'd like to be the guy with the powerful weapons and armor that does the fighting thing. If everyone does that, then I might as well play something else.

>They sort of are, though? They're rooted in maintaining archetypes.
But D&D is all about archetypes. If you don't want that, you can play Runequest or GURPS or something.
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>>53308956
>But can you use it efficiently?
Sure. You're covered in shit. People can't hit you.
That's pretty much all armor ever.
>Efficiently enough to get an AC bonus?
The most complicated part of plate, is that you can stick you hands forward and use them like shields.
Which actually is *sort-of* complicated (but not at all tricky), because shields do lots of things.

>But D&D is all about archetypes.
DnD is all about describing how you search a room, while cracking shitty out-of-game jokes.
I'm a fan of archetypes myself, but if you feel the need to justify them with in-game reasons,
you are going to have to rework the archetypes so you can actually make reasonable "reasons".
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>>53308956
>D&D is all about archetypes
Yes, let us consider the cleric, a tried-and-true archetype present in all fantasy fiction and not an arbitrary homebrew made to counter a specific NPC.
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>>53309334
It was actually made to counter another PC.
It was a "good party v. evil party" campaign.
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Why are osrlads so fond of hirelings?
Hirelings are the most annoying tedious bullshit. I try to avoid them in my games at all costs.
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>>53309423
You need to have someone to carry your bags and shit.

Hirelings won't follow you into dungeons. That'll be henchmen.
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>>53309458
Yeah so why even bother though?
You spend 2 gold hiring some useless goober to carry your shit and stand outside the dungeon and it's praised as some essential part of the game.
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>>53309423
Even through mid-levels, you're not much better than a hireling in fights.
Extra dudes -> muich better chance of winning fights.

It's also extra carrying capacity, extra people to outrun and leave to the troll, extra people to snag the tripwire the scout missed while you're a ways away, extra people to sell to the witch...
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>>53309561
You're explaining what the hirelings do but not why that isn't tedious or is a game mechanic you would want.
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>>53309658
It was already explained why a character might want to have some hirelings. This leads to there being some hirelings, which in turn leads to there being some mechanics for them.

If none of your player characters want to bring any along, then congratulations - you won't need to use the rules.
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>>53309658
>>53309492
>why do people like thing?
Some people enjoy having to organize how they move their shit around as an extension of resource management. In this case the resources are how much shit you can carry, how well you can pay mooks, stuff like that. Some people deal with it because their gm focuses on keeping track of that sort of thing. If you don't like it, don't use it. Hand wave encumbrance overland-travel. But lots of people see those things as being fairly essential to their osr experience.
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>>53309492
As useless as a hireling may be, you can't deny the effect that numbers have when it comes to getting a task done.

There are numerous tasks that require no skill at all to accomplish, but require SOMEBODY to handle them.

As for >>53309658 there are roleplaying possibilities for the DM and PC.

The DM gets an NPC that has a obvious and important link to the characters. An NPC like that might also serve as a good way to explain setting, or illustrate the importance of a thing based on their reaction to it.

The Player benefits from that as well, because not only can they use the hireling as a living barometer and expository aid, but they also might get advantages against monster morale.

I enjoy hirelings, and I encourage my players to take them on because they open up a lot of possibilities.
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>>53309658

>why that [..] is a game mechanic you would want.
Hirelings inject a sense of superiority.
No matter how bad things get, you're up one to them.
They're like your personal George Costanza.
Also expands roleplaying opportunities.
>why that isn't tedious
Russell's teapot. What's tedious?
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>>53309824
Keeping track of more characters is tedious. That's why you don't walk around with hundreds of dudes and keep track of all their stats and health.
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>>53309870
...I disagree. There. Argument over. Go back to your game and stay wrong
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>>53309423
>>53309658
What's tedious about them?

They carry gear and treasure so you don't have to. They carry torches and poles so you have free hands. They (might) go in first to set off traps or act as meatshields.

The only thing I could see as tedious is keeping track of encumbrance, but that's optional and there are plenty of systems to deal with it. Even Basic is very simple compared to later editions since "Miscellaneous Equipment" just weighs 80 coins (no keeping track of 1/2 lb sacks).

Use this if you need help coming up with names and details:

http://www.barrowmaze.com/meatshields
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>>53309895
So you prefer games with as many NPCs to keep track of as possible?
That's a first.
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>>53309870
You, the player, *don't* keep track of more characters.
The ref keeps a list of names with one or two sentences of notes.
Three sentences, if you've ever bothered to ask what they look like and the locals don't all look the same.

>>53309895
You don't have to lurk, but you can't post here.
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>>53309924
You're just baiting, now. OSR stat blocks take almost no effort to write up, and npc's offer flavor to a game.
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>>53309936
>You, the player, *don't* keep track of more characters.
And even if you did, would it be that terrible?

I've DMed a whole bunch and I don't mind having to control two or even three characters when I play. In fact I might actually like it.
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>>53309870
>hundreds of dudes

There are plenty of limiting factors, mainly the reaction table. All those -1s are going to add up, and that's before you even consider cost.
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>>53309870
You're probably going to be arguing about nothing, and badly, at this point. Its not that hard to keep track of with most osr stats while still being smaller than a 3pf stat-block for one monster, and lots of people like keeping track of things while playing osr.

Its cool if you don't, that's how preferences work, but at this point all you've got is you don't like a thing. Its easy enough to cut from your game if you're running one, and easy enough to talk to your gm/group about if you're not as into it.
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>>53309936
Why are you assuming I'm the player and not the referee?

>>53309968
Nah man, I just think keeping track of health and initiative and stuff is a chore if they're around danger, and if they aren't around they add nothing.

>>53309997
This doesn't necessarily need to be in a system with that reaction table.
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>>53310028
>Why are you assuming I'm the player and not the referee?
Because you don't like having more NPCs.
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>>53310007
I already have cut it from my game, I was originally asking why people like it.
And I have already gotten at least a few satisfactory answers actually, so I'm basically done arguing.
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>>53310028
>This doesn't necessarily need to be in a system with that reaction table.

Well that's the system they originate from, and it solves your problem perfectly.

>I just think keeping track of health and initiative and stuff is a chore

You're doing exactly that for monsters already. Use side initiative instead of individual initiative if you don't like keeping track of individual initiative.
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>>53310028
>keeping track of initative and health.
Group initiative, my man. As for health it isn't like they have more than a single HD. If you really want to simplify it, just treat them as a one-hit KO if they are assaulted by something.

You're also deliberately ignoring all the posts from people explaining what can be done with hirelings, and thats fine. You're not going to convince people by saying "X is useless" and then doing nothing more than repeating that.
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>>53310057
>few satisfactory answers as to why people enjoy a thing I don't
>we enjoy resource management and over land travel that includes henchmen
>we like roleplaying having doods
>people need to carry our shit which is part of the game we play and enjoy
You that guy who comes into osr every week or so and complains about parts of it they don't like while becoming increasingly incensed that you don't get it?
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>>53309924
I'll bite. Here's a (you)
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I'm giving my heartbreaker a final try before calling the group and playing a game with everything I didn't settle beforehand being rules "as LL RAW".

I had a bunch of half-baked ideas about making combat better than IGO-UGO and countering the "well, I missed, result the same as if I had done nothing this turn" problem.
Option 1: unconditional minimum damage, which I don't like because I'd want it for monsters too.
Option 2: glance on miss, another attack on a glanced enemy is an instant hit. Glances vanish if not used within a turn.
Option 3: Glances only offer a bonus for a different attacker, not instant hit.
Then a whole thing about players being able to receive a penalty of their choosing to be able to give a penalty to an enemy from the following list: "mark" free attack, bonus to attack +2, bonus to dmg +2, bonus to armor -2, instant combat heal (for another character). Penalties for the characters were the same in inverse, plus fatigued (-2 to everything).
Plus a parry mechanic that's fiddy as fuck using difference between what enemy rolled and what he needed to roll to hit.

I'm reaching critical levels of impostor syndrome and I'm considering just throwing it all away and running classic OD&D combat

tl;dr
suggest a good way of fixing IGO-UGO and wasted turn problem.
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>>53310129
You completely misunderstood that part of my post, that was me being amicable and saying some good reasons have been brought up.
I'm not trying to stir shit at all.
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>>53310167
That was some bad reading comprehension on my part. Sorry for being a dick.
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>>53310167

So what do you say to >>53309820 and >>53309787, and >>53309903?

Nothing. You're clearly avoiding rational answers, and just tweaking the hotheads.
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>>53307765
Because it's game about archetypical characters
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>>53309145
>DnD is all about describing how you search a room, while cracking shitty out-of-game jokes.

Then why are you in the OSR thread if you don't like D&D
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>>53282542
How do you handle movement in a dungeon?, the 1st edition method is too slow for my players
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Related to the discussion at hand:

>ran a game a while back
>we're all newbies to OSR
>tell them they'll have to map and keep track of resources
>they groan and give up on those almost immediately
>meanwhile they still play games where it takes an hour and a lot of math and plenty of dice rolling just to make a character

Different strokes and all that, but why do so many players regard the old school stuff as a waste of effort yet the newer stuff as fun? Is counting torches or hexes really a chore compared to optimizing a character build?
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>>53310348
I suppose the difference is that optimizing your character is directly related to power, while counting torches and food relates to your weakness instead.

If you're looking to play for the sake of a power fantasy, the former will obviously appeal to you more, while the latter just gets in the way.
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>>53310348
>Is counting torches or hexes really a chore compared to optimizing a character build?

And you're actually doing something in the game rather than engaging in mental masturbation about what cool combo you can pull off at level 20
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>>53310228
I think >>53309787 gave the best answer.
If I didn't respond it's either because I didn't think an argument would go anywhere or I thought that they stood on their own perfectly well.
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>>53310348
Eh, if it's just the mapping you can do that for them. That's how we did it as kids when we got a little too creative during game prep and realized we couldn't even properly convey the shapes during game.
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>>53311058
>there is a god that is only worshipped by a handful of people, maybe just one person
What could be a good (and interesting) reason for this?
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>>53312274
Sorry for the (You) >>53311058
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>>53312274
A great purge, similar to Order 66.

The god almost certainly never had many worshippers to begin with. This'd mean the cult had to be a secret one, which in turn would almost invariably mean it's an evil-aligned god.
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>>53312357
>invariably mean it's an evil-aligned god.
Why would someone worship evil gods btw?

>inb4 POWER
Any other reason?
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>>53312523
Love and acceptance. Real-life cults do that a lot.
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>>53312548
>Love and acceptance
I want to join a cult now...
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Is this the right thread to ask about deadlands classic builds? I'm thinking of a duelist ex military type
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>>53312274
The god only showed itself to that person/those people. And it doesn't want knowledge of it to spread because that will ruin it's plans.
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>>53312523
It's a real
>depends on the setting/GM's idiosyncracies
question.

I'd say Good requires a strong and sustained effort with regular self-denial whereas Evil is really easy and about self-indulgence.
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>>53312523
>Any other reason?
They are evil-aligned themselves.
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>>53312619
>I want to join a cult now...

You're already in the /osr/ thread. What more do you need?
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>>53313158
Funny hats.
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>>53313158
A cult would have less shitposters...
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>>53310324
What /exactly/ do you mean by to slow?
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>>53312523
>Why would someone worship evil gods btw?
You gotta understand, mane, there are various kinds of people who might not think the same way as you.

There are some truly fucked up people living on this planet that have a lot of hate and ill will deep inside of them.

And besides, there's been plenty of evil cults throughout history.
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>>53312274
You write it off as game balance and don't fuss over the details.
Maybe ask the player to come up with their own joke reason?
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Tell me about her, /osrg/

Tell me about your fantasy heartbreaker
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>>53313214
A cult would have less shitposters...

You've clearly never been in a cult.

>>53313208
Can do.

>>53310348
I just told them "good mapmaking is like good tactics. If you don't have a good map, you're fucked. Also, if I ask you how many torches you have left and you don't know, or your number doesn't match my number, you have one torch left, or zero, and without a torch you can't see where you're going. You signed up for an OSR game. "Like Dark Souls" you said. That means a lot of things that would normally be my problem are now your problem."

>>53309334
>Yes, let us consider the cleric, a tried-and-true archetype present in all fantasy fiction and not an arbitrary homebrew made to counter a specific NPC.

Paging Dr. Van Helsing, paging Dr. Van Helsing...
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>>53313715
>Paging Dr. Van Helsing, paging Dr. Van Helsing...

Solomon Kane, Mola Ram, Joan of Arc, Jesus, Moses, a whole lot of saints...
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>>53313756
Jesus was a 5th-level magic user.
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>>53313786
Magic-users don't get Water Walk, Create Food and Water, and of course, Raise Dead.
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>>53313807
Clerics stole that from Jesus.
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>>53313807
>New spells may be researched by any spell caster. Research requires both money and time spent out of the campaign.
>To research a spell, the new spell must be written out and given to the DM, who decides if it is possible, what level it should be, and what changes are needed for play balance. A player may not research spells higher than his character can cast. Spell research costs 1,000 gp per level and requires 2 weeks of research per level.

Reminder that much of Christ's early life is a mystery.

And so, >>53313822
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Why didn't any other adventure use the wandering monster system of the Crypts of Arcadia?
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What would I need to convert to run a Basic module with LotFP? Specifically B4 The Lost City. Some of my players may be in the thread so please spoiler any of the modules secrets.

If you're part of the Slaughter County group don't read the spoilers!
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>>53307291
Lamentationfag reporting in.

yes they can use all weapons and armor but many class abilities require you to be unencumbered or have your hands free (such as spell casting) and with how the encumberance system works (which I like) its nearly guarranteed that heavy armor will encumber you too much to do magic.

But it is still possible to use them all, which I think is cool.
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>>53314322
Literally nothing.
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>>53314322
Change the AC to ascending and you're good to go.
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Anyone else help kickstart Mutant Crawl Classics? I'm fucking stoked on it. Gamma World/Mutant Future by way of DCC.
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>>53314483
So... just DCC?
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>>53314434
>>53314451
Do I need to convert the treasure they find? Should I just turn all GP into SP and all SP into CP?
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>>53314598
Naw son.
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>>53314642
For LotFP, yes, convert GP straight to SP. And I suppose all SP to CP, but I honestly have never gave a fuck about loose-change at my table.
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>>53314642
That would be a good start, but prices vary wildly.
No matter the module and system, set treasure however.
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>>53315877
What I would change:

- Remove the attribute bonus from races, make them a requirement. I don't want players to min/max
- Remove darkvision from half-elves, orcs, haflings and maybe gnomes. Right now literally everyone and their mother have darkvision
- Small races can not use heavy weapons (do how 5e does it)
- Barbarians are just worse fighters, I would change or remove them
- Animal companion should scale with level
- I would just use 5e death saves
- Drop combat feats, and add something else
- Remove the medicine skill
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>>53316247
>Remove darkvision from...
Everyone. Maybe give a few races (Orcs, etc) a tool to cope with darkness, but not one to ignore it.
>Animal companion should scale with level
God no. AD&D ranger monster followers didn't advance, why blow salt in the eyes of low and mid level fighters?
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>>53316247
>>53316380
Accidentally deleted it. Whoops.
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>>53309334
In the Fall of 1972 Mike Carr was playing a "Village Priest Level III". No mention in Peterson that this was "to counter some faggot's undead homebrew class" so I'm not sure where /osrg/ picked up that belief.

The term "cleric" is not common in fantasy literature, but "priests" appear in Conan, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, and Poul Anderson. Tolkien is a bit exceptional in not having anything like a priestly class. Peterson speculates that Gygax and Arneson favored the term "cleric" because they were both non-Catholic Christians.
>>
>>53316380
>Everyone. Maybe give a few races (Orcs, etc) a tool to cope with darkness, but not one to ignore it.
Okay, you have a point

>God no. AD&D ranger monster followers didn't advance, why blow salt in the eyes of low and mid level fighters?
I just think the companion is useless outside level 1, and I see no reason for druids to exist


Anything else that you disagree with me?


>>53316399
>Accidentally
How?
>>
>>53316470
>I just think the companion is useless outside level 1
At what level do you stop paying for hirelings?
>Anything else that you disagree with me?
No.

>>53316421
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sir+fang+arneson
>>
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>>53316247

> Remove the attribute bonus from races, make them a requirement. I don't want players to min/max.
I want my players to do whatever they want. Thusfar all simply picked what sounded the most fun to them and no min/maxing has happened.

>Remove darkvision from half-elves, orcs, haflings and maybe gnomes. Right now literally everyone and their mother have darkvision
Considering it.

>Small races can not use heavy weapons (do how 5e does it)
Implied, but I didn't write it. Oops. Same rules as LotFP Halfling.

>Barbarians are just worse fighters, I would change or remove them
They are a wild card and the extra damage they can inflict is a nice bonus. And their Dwarf saves trump the Fighters.

>Animal companion should scale with level
Nah. They can use their Animal Friendship spell to acquire something more powerful.

>I would just use 5e death saves
Considering that as well.

>Drop combat feats, and add something else
Stolen from DCC. I like them too much and it encourages player creativity.

>Remove the medicine skill
Nah.


>>53316470
Thought I uploaded an older version and deleted it. I was wrong.
>>
>>53283706
>Cure Light Wounds
No.
>>
>>53316526
>owlbear jerky

enjoy puking up black sludge
>>
>>53316526
>I want my players to do whatever they want. Thusfar all simply picked what sounded the most fun to them and no min/maxing has happened.
Fair enough


>>Small races can not use heavy weapons (do how 5e does it)
>Implied, but I didn't write it. Oops. Same rules as LotFP Halfling.
In 5e small races can wield 1handed weapons with just one hand


>They are a wild card and the extra damage they can inflict is a nice bonus. And their Dwarf saves trump the Fighters.
I have to think...

>>Remove the medicine skill
>Nah.
Why do you like it?
>>
>>53316526
>>53316655
>no monkey skulls
>>
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>>53316695
Got em.
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>>53316611

What the hell do you mean "no"?

>>53283653
>What are the most important, core spells you feel should be in every retroclone or game?

It's a preference based question, you fucking numpty.

Hey, what kind of cereal do you like?
>Raisin bran
No.

/You/ might not like it, but that's anon's opinion, and for better or worse, he's allowed to have it. He's allowed to run games where Clerics, Thief-Acrobats, and Barbarians are the 3 core classes.

Maybe you can say "can you explain?" or even "I disagree, and here's why." But you sure as hell can't say "no" after someone tells you their opinion.
>>
>>53316748
Not him, but I'm guessing he plays a setting where there's no magic healing, which aren't that uncommon all things considered.
>>
>>53316748
I once knew a guy, with a wife and kids, who's house had no kitchen.
There was a mini-fridge with milk and several boxes of raisin bran.
Each person in that house had a bowl and a spoon.

They ate most of their meals out.
>>
>>53316688
>Medicine
I like it because when a player who takes the effort to Bushcraft for medicinal herbs and shit wants to make a salve or if they spend their hard earned coin on healing kits to use for the party later, they have the option to let a 'professional' administer the treatment and provide a better outcome instead of a flat "you heal 1d6".

A player can effectively build a support character (Using the Rogue class) that isn't just a Cleric. I like the idea of a Plague Doctor with a flintlock, or a big city Doctor who also specializes in Languages and Speechcraft too.
>>
>>53316774
>Not him, but I'm guessing he plays a setting where there's no magic healing, which aren't that uncommon all things considered.

And that's fine! He can have whatever setting he wants. But you can't counter an opinion with "no".

>>53316802
But... why?

I'm looking at buying a house soon. One of the main requirements is a kitchen big enough to fit 6 baking sheets side by side, plus room to upgrade the oven.
>>
>>53316862
>But... why?

They sound like they were broke or lived in a place where the house prices were through the roof. House prices vary immensely from place to place.

See for example: Vancouver, Canada
>>
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>>53317032
Portland, OR here.

Shit is wack.
>>
>>53313263
>dm: so you enter into this cave
>players: ok, we move 10 feet
>dm: it is a damp, dark and misty cave
>players: k, we move another 10 feet
>dm: the cave is the same as it was before
>players: so we move another 10 feet

and so on...
>>
>>53317498
Take a page from Gyagx.
>>
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>>53317214
>>53317032
It's a weird world out there. Maybe they'll be another Black Death or Spanish Flu and things will reset.
>>
>>53317550
There's an almost identical walkthrough in Basic Rulebook #1, albeit without the "10', 20', 30'". The players are all named and reads like something you'd actually hear during game night.
>>
>>53317550
This reminds me of really old RPG games like wizardry where you're just walking down corridors in first person and mapping them out.

I remember an anon on here mentioning that he tried out Wizardry I the other day.
>>
>>53317680
Played Legend of Grimrock, yet? 1 and 2 are both the best dungeon crawlers I've ever played on PC.
>>
>>53317680
actually i was that anon. i tried the DOS and SNES versions both and theyre totally inline with the OSR vibe.

i wonder which other CRPG's are OSR kosher here.
>>
>>53317721
Icewind Dale 1? Eye of the Beholder?
>>
>>53317709
do you know that someone did with the level editor of grimrock 1 the tomb of horrors?
>>
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>>53317721
Legend of Grimrock
Darkest Dungeon
Dragons Dogma
Caves of Qud
Sunless Sea (to a degree)

And about a million roguelilkes.
>>
>>53317721
I haven't played them myself, but I've seen some gameplay. What immediately stood out was the fact that you could have like 8 party members at once, when I saw that it hit me how influenced it was by old school.
>>
>>53317776
Basically:

Legend of Grimrock = AD&D
Darkest Dungeon = LotFP
Dragons Dogma = 3.5ish
Caves of Qud = Gamma World
Sunless Sea = Call of Cthulhu with resource management
>>
>>53317819
>Dragons Dogma = 3.5ish
i was gonna to say this, i have both Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls/Demon Souls and DD does a great job of giving a D&D experience like a 3.5/PF party while the souls games are to me like the 1E experience, only that being solo.
>>
>>53317793
not only that, i've read a book called Desktops & Dungeons and they talk a bit about earlier than wizardry there was a Moria game for mainframes (not to be confused with the roguelike) that used the first person view too but capable of doing a party with the people logged to the mainframe.
imagine yourself a multiplayer wizardry in the 70's.
>>
>>53317870
I couldn't get into Dark Souls, surprisingly, but Dragons Dogma ruled. I was also a big fan of NWN2, even if it is explicitly 3.5ish.
>>
>>53317721
That's because Wizardry I was riffing Bx.
Sidenote: Manga that feel like Bx that aren't replays are actually riffing Wizardry.
>>
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>>53317870
>>53317925
http://swampofmonsters.blogspot.ca/2014/03/100-things-from-dark-souls-2.html

This is a good list, btw.
>>
>>53317904
>imagine yourself a multiplayer wizardry in the 70's.

Holy shit, imagine how mindblowing that must have been for the players back then.
>>
Rolled 49 (1d100)

>>53318157
>>
>>53317649
>There's an almost identical walkthrough in Basic Rulebook #1
Any chance of capping it? My internet is too shit to download anything right now
>>
>>53317550
What are the other players there for?
>>
>>53320023
presumably they talk about their next move as a party, then the caller tells the DM their decision, but that's been cut out for brevity's sake
>>
>>53320062
Oh, so the caller is sort of the "official" move of the party? I wonder how stuff was handled when players wouldn't agree and got mad at each other.
>>
>>53317721
Honestly, while not technically "C"RPGs (as they're on handheld systems), the Etrian Odyssey series is up that alley. While you don't have to worry about food and light, the party's HP is definitely a factor to take into account early on, before you become accustomed to the whole dungeon crawl.

Best part, as they're on the 3/DS, the bottom touch screen is all "graph paper"-y to map out the dungeon as you go.
>>
>>53318157
someone needs to make a similar chart for Bloodborne(in many respects I feel is the From Soft game that would be easiest to adapt to an OSR context)
>>
>>53320023
>>53320112
>Oh, so the caller is sort of the "official" move of the party?
Yeah, pretty much.

The exact details vary by group, but typically:
The caller is appointed, or replaced, by majority vote.
The caller listens to the group but, unless and until replaced, has final say on any group decisions.
If the caller singles out a characters activities, the character's player has veto right.
>Ear Seekers are no joke! Have someone else to listen at the door. (etc)
If the party splits, each portion has a caller.

Speeds up play. A lot. it's almost gross.
>>
>>53320112
>I wonder how stuff was handled when players wouldn't agree and got mad at each other.
BNot sure about Gygax, but Arneson sent fiat wandering monsters at his groups when they bickered for too long.
>>
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>>53320126
>handheld systems
>not computers
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Anyone have any good tables of how a replacement PC is found in a dungeon? Also how do you keep track of time in a dungeon?
>>
How do you handle a PC making a called shot?

"I aim for the throat!" "I shoot at the eyes!" Etc.
>>
>>53323170
Roll two dice for the attack and use the worst of the two. If they hit they get an extra effect on top of doing damage.
>>
>>53323170
This doesn't happen in my table, you roll and THEN describe what happened
>>
>>53323170
Called shots go inherently against the simple combat system and the abstract nature of hit points. No one in my group cares to try.
>>
>>53323170
Roll for attack. If you hit, roll damage as normal. If you miss, you do no damage.
>>
>>53323170
I use the method implied by Beholders and some other monsters, giving the body part a separate (high) AC. That way there are no weird incongruous situations where a called shot makes it easier to e.g. avoid armor, as long as I set the ACs right.
>>
If you use systems with race-and-class, what's your relationship with racial class restrictions and level limitations? Are they cosmic laws that can never be broken, are they some sort of cultural limitations that player characters don't need to abide to, or are they ignored altogether?
>>
>>53324445
The level limit is the pinnacle of the species. You (mostly NPCs) can go higher, but only with divine aid.
Also, a level limit of 11 for Humans (including Clerics), and 10 for MUs.
>>
>>53322422

1. Bound and gagged in a locked broom closet.

2. Rescued from slow and painful digestion from the bowels of a carnivorous plant.

3. The dungeon ceiling collapses in and the character comes tumbling down from an upper level.

4. Found hypnotized by an illusion trap, a bucket of water or a firm slap will easily snap them out of their trance.

5. Forced to act as the personal scribe / chef / mount for a crazed goblin shaman.

6. Teleported to the dungeon by an irate wizard / magical trap / cruel genie.

7. Steps out of a broken magical mirror, unaware that 75 years have passed since they were first trapped.

8. Found floating in a glass cylinder filled with luminescent green liquid. May or may not be the clone of a legendary adventurer from ages past.

9. Found trapped under the pile of bodies that used to be their previous adventuring party.

10. Unexpectedly meets the party as they round a corner. Got lost in the dungeon and claims a strange ethereal figure with a soothing voice guided them to the party.

11. Mugged and left for dead by bandits, the character crawled into the dungeon seeing shelter and soon got lost.

12. Had a strange dream as they slept, woke up to find themself deep inside the dungeon.

Adequate?
>>
>>53324445
I've always felt that humans effectively do have a level limit in OD&D, it's just that they get some slight improvement past it.

If you treat ability to hit things as the highlight of Fighting Men, they cap at 16. Looking at spellcasting, Magic-Users cap at 12 when they get their ability to cast a 6th level spell or 16 when they can cast 5 of them. Clerics you could argue 7 for their first 5th level spell, 10 for capping out on spellcasting, or 8 for maxing their Turn Undead.

Of course, you could always call getting their stronghold the soft cap where their advancement changes and players (theoretically) become less interested in the character's personal power and more interested in building little cardboard models of their sweet castle and airbrushing dragons on the walls.

None of this 20 or 36 levels nonsense though. Quite a bit higher than the caps on non-humans, but eh, the curve of power gained falls off after the non-humans cap out anyway.
>>
>>53325455
>Quite a bit higher than the caps on non-humans, but eh, the curve of power gained falls off after the non-humans cap out anyway.
OK, this is kind of a lie, but it's not like they have souls.
>>
What are some good non fantasy OSR?
>>
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>>53325131
Those are very good. Thank you.
>>
>>53325802
Silent Legions. Mutant Future. Mechanations of the Space Princess. Mutant Crawl Classics.
>>
>>53299631
Uh, like the half of all cats?
>>
>>53325802
Star's Without Number/Other Dust
Silent Legions
Into the Odd
Mutant Future

If you take a very broad view of what constitutes OSR, there's also games like Boot Hill, Metamorphosis Alpha/Gamma World and Traveler.
>>
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Anybody ever actually use generic settings like the Known Lands in their game?
>>
>>53327636
Define "generic".
>>
>>53316247
>Remove darkvision from half-elves, orcs, haflings and maybe gnomes. Right now literally everyone and their mother have darkvision

Some thoughts on this

1. If a sneaky character wants to scout ahead in a dark dungeon, they NEED darkvision. Period. Otherwise they'll just be a lonely, delicious adventurer holding a torch that all the monsters can see coming from a mile away.

2. Green Slime, Rot Grubs, oozes, and many other monsters are seriously bad news if you're walking around without a source of fire. Maybe you need to burn something NOW, not 1d6 rounds from now or however long it takes to dig out a torch and light it.

3. Grues. Maybe you carry a torch not to see things, but to make sure there are some things you never see.
>>
>>53327636
I love the map and notes in Expert but I'm sad that they added all the extra detail in the Mystara books.

The exact same thing happened to the Forgotten Realms. A solid, kitchen sink fantasy setting that was praised for not having all the lore baggage of Dragonlance... then before you know it we have Drizzt and The Time of Troubles and Baldur's Gate and...

Just give me a map and a key, like a dungeon. If I wanted to study pages of history, I'd set my campaign in Africa.
>>
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>>53322422
> Anyone have any good tables of how a replacement PC is found in a dungeon?

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-table-of-replacement-pcs.html
>>
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So I got the idea to use a mix of Ars Magica magic mixed with OSR.

I know a big part about what make OSR magic users balanced and fitting to the gameplay style is spell preparation. But at the same time I really like the more elemental/free flowing nature of Ars Magica magic, and feel that Wizards having little to no freedom in OSR while in a dungeon could be changed a bit.

So instead, how is this for a system.
>Wizard has 5 Arts and 10 Forms
>Arts are manipulating things; Creating, Perceiving, Changing, Destroying, Controlling.
>Forms are the elements of reality; Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Plants, Animals, Human bodies, Human minds, Images, and Prime (raw magical energy)
>Instead of preparing spells, Magic Users prepare 'charges' of forms, which can then be used in combination with an art to make magic

So instead of preparing a fireball or torch spell, the Wizard could prepare a Fire charge. Later on they could use it to create a flaming blast, or if the needs change they could instead use it to destroy a fire, or control a fire, and so on.

How does this sound for a more freeform OSR magic concept?
>>
>>53329190
>Otherwise they'll just be a lonely, delicious adventurer holding a torch that all the monsters can see coming from a mile away.
Not if you give you monsters torches, or the scout is quick to cover (and abandon) their lantern.
>>
I have no one else to share this with at the moment but i just scored a ton of AD&D and 2E books for basically nothing at a garage sale and it made my whole week.
>>
>>53331235
>How does this sound for a more freeform OSR magic concept?

It works, but part of the joy of OSR is using conventional tools in unconventional ways.

Your freeform magic makes these: http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/03/1d135-osr-style-challenges.html trivial. It provides a key for every lock. Sure, the player has to think of a solution, but that's it. It's a one-step process. "I use spell". That doesn't feel very fun to me. Freeform magic can be fine, but it seems more suited to a game driven by narrative.
>>
>>53331235
>How does this sound for a more freeform OSR magic concept?
It sounds more restraining, actually.

You've limited them to 50 things, total.
There's some leeway on what those spells do, but there's some leeway on what normal OSR spells do.
You also can't add any spells without breaking the dynamic, unlike normal OSR spells.
>>
>>53331369
Fuckin' sweet, Anon! What did you get? Give us a loot post in the next thread.
>>
>>53331397
>>53331418

It was a concept I had partially because I am pretty uncreative myself when it comes to spells. How do I make interesting spells? I don't want to just use the TSR spells, but I don't want all the spells to be so weird and whacky and random xd
>>
>>53331916
will do :)

here is a dungeon treasure log i found tucked into the PHB. could be as old as the books. i think it's neat.
>>
>>53332003
Use a picture of it all as the OP.

>>53331924
Have you tried not being boring yourself?
>>
>>53332027
i would, but i have to leave for awhile. i'll peek in later on tonight though
>>
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>>53332027
>Have you tried not being boring yourself?

Could you be a little less edgy?
>>
>>53331235
I'd merge Animals and Human bodies into "Life" and add a Fate form. I'd also ignore the "But it makes dungeons too easy!" and "Freeform magic is too limiting!" comments, because to be entirely honest, those comments are retarded.
>>
>>53332003
Looks more like an inventory.
>>
>>53332150
Then consume more interesting or more varied media.

And maybe read up on mnemotechnics?
Better (or at least deliberately varied) encoding can lead to more varied ideas during recall.
>>
>>53332232

You'd have to mix in the spell levels of D&D to keep how powerful spells could be. Spell levels = magnitude levels in Ars Magica.

As for life magic and change to fate, I guess that makes sense. I somewhat dislike the overpowered elements of space, fate, and time from modern Mage. I wouldn't want to use fate.

I don't see why to separate human bodies and animals. While it is true they could always fit together, I think seperating the intelligent races and animals beasts makes sense from a magical perspective. You use create + human body to heal your party but create + animal can be used to summon a monster. It's partially arbitrary in a modern scientific persepctive but in a fantasy setting where only humans/elves/dwarves/orcs are considered to have souls and such, it's not so arbitrary.

You could just roll with 9 elements instead, if that autism doesn't work.
>>
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>>53331924
>How do I make interesting spells?

Spells should do 1 thing obviously and several things non-obviously.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-100-orthodox-spells.html

The other problem is that the TSR spells are, to a certain extent, whacky and weird and random. Colour Spray? Sticks to Snakes?

The other thing is that you're designing without intent. What are you trying to acomplish, and does the system you've designed acomplish this?
>>
>>53332730
The Astrologer's Helper is the best version of Know Direction that I've ever seen.
>>
>>53331418

You don't actually know how Ars Magica magic works, do you?

"Fire" is not just fire on its own. It's also heat and light. Destroy Fire also allows you to create darkness. "Water" can be used to create water, ice, dampness, and many other things. You can also use the creation ability with water to create water with pretty much any ability you can think of, like a health potion or acid, but obviously this is less efficient then just doing those things directly.

The only shitty one is Control + Image, because all the examples in the book I can remember basically just let you move where things appear, which is kind of lame. Wish there was more to it then that.
>>
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>>53332767
Thanks. There are some fun spells in there.
>>
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not pictured because i forgot a bag in the car:

fighter handbook
thief handbook
priest handbook
drow of the underdark
oriental adventures
and some modules i forget the name of (knight of the undead? maybe? something like that, and another one about drow)

the 2e phb/dmg books have slightly beaten up covers and worn edges, the rest are gorgeous.

ill post a picture of the others some other time because im not going all the way down to the garage and stuff at 1030 when i already have no pants on, but im pretty excited to get this stuff
>>
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What are dryads, treemen, and fungoids like in your setting? What are they up to?
>>
>>53333628
>What are dryads, treemen, and fungoids like in your setting?
Imaginary.
>What are they up to?
Ask an illusionist.
>>
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>>53333657
>Ask an illusionist.

I tried. They kept just going "AAAAAAH!" and running away.
>>
>>53333672
Ask a priest?
>>
>>53333657
not really much point in replying to that question if they don't exist in your setting, it's basically a waste of everyone's time
>>
New thread
>>53334613
>>53334613
>>
>>53298633
ayyy DCC's character backgrounds

I've stolen that idea for my campaigns too.




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