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Rolled 26 (1d26)

Karkinos Heresy Edition
Anything by Blance is DAoT Sub-edition

The GOD MAKER organ was discovered and implanted into many crustaceans by the Totally Not Dracula Backwards organization, who make monsters to fight monsters whilst merrily forgetting they began as humans. Thus, the Crabmarchs are born. Perpetuals are dying in the Story of the Twin Discords, but the one with the most organs will win. Unless they're ugly. It'd make sense if you were in the previous thread >>54319344

>Thread FAQ
http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed)

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (not updated since January 2016)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
http://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed) ()

>HH Books, Novels and Rulebooks galore
http://pastebin.com/k9uvqsub (embed) ()
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2Ffz1OuHK%2Fcrusade-imperialis-army-lists.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764 (embed)

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447 (embed)

>Primarch Popularity Poll
http://www.strawpoll.me/11458318 (embed)

>STUFF ANONS ASK FOR
http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/aYWlVV9f/file.html
http://www32.zippyshare.com/v/heDZWytT/file.html

>Crimson King
http://www38.zippyshare.com/v/hT9jpwsK/file.html

>NEW Mega Folder
https://mega.nz/#F!gaBiVTKI!HTOuNx5zzNxHqT-ny-AU3A
>>
First for the First.
>>
Why do people like Sanguinius?
>did nothing to put himself on a particularly high pedestal during the crusade
>was never noted as brilliant in any respect
>got his legs broken by a bloodthirster when fucking LORGAR beat the strongest one
>ran off to guilliman
>allowed himself to be crown traitor emperor
>finally got some sense knocked into him
>pulled a leeroy jenkins at terra despite having a legion to call on
>died like a bitch, barely accomplished anything
>everyone's acknowledged best primarch
>>
>>54359833
/thread
>>
>>54360052
nice attempt at triggering everyone
>>
I guess we're not going on Hiatus, even though this has literally become just a spinoff to 40k general. We're discussing Primarines more than anything 30k.
>>
>>54360052
>did nothing to put himself on a particularly high pedestal during the crusade
He conquered the shit out of everything he touched. Horus thought he should have been warmaster. Killed a phantom titan with his hands.

>was never noted as brilliant in any respect
He was considered either equal to Angron or the best in fighting.

>got his legs broken by a bloodthirster when fucking LORGAR beat the strongest one
You mean he got tricked after he had already beaten it? Then proceeded to beat him again barehanded while effortlessly impaling a keeper of secrets?

>ran off to guilliman
Didn't really have anywhere else to go. Made the best out of a bad situation.

>allowed himself to be crown traitor emperor
And he immediately gave it up after he found a way back to Terra.

>finally got some sense knocked into him
What?

>pulled a leeroy jenkins at terra despite having a legion to call on
Who needs a legion when you can defend the gates for three days?

>died like a bitch, barely accomplished anything
Died for the emps, allowed him to finish off Horus.

>everyone's acknowledged best primarch
For good reason. He wasn't an autistic sperg.

6/10, got me to make this autistic post.
>>
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[REDACTED] was lost to the Rangda, probably corrupted alongside a sizeable portion of his legion. Thus it fell on the Wolves of Fenris to destroy him. The remnants of his legion, the honour guard left guarding [REDACTED]'s homeworld and marines scattered on expeditionary fleets, were recalled towards Ultramar
That's why it is recorded the Ultramarines weren't in Rangda, when in fact they were. Using the false information of them being safely away the increase in the legion's ranks can be explained, instead of the logical conclusion that they adopted the [REDACTED] legion's orphans. This was correctly guessed by Dorn, a discovered of truths who is obtuse enough that lie cannot reach him (he could also routinarily identify the real Alpharius where Horus couldn't)
As it is written, the whole Rangda Xenocides introduced the idea that Primarchs could be corrupted, and these news didn't escape the Emperor, who took appropiate measures
First, he erased the memory of the Primarchs and installed a fake one in their minds (not unlike how he made them forget Molech), swearing to keep a secret that never happened. This is why not even the traitor Primarchs break the oath of silence to the Emperor: because they remember the feeling of having to keep a secret but not the actual secret. There is simply nothing to say
Furthermore, the Emperor worked on both ways to prevent coruption (the outlawing of all sources of psychic power among legions) and ways to remove and heal it
This cure proved right when Alpharius was found (which was AFTER Rangda), corrupted as well by the nightmarish Slaught. But the Emperor was able to both rescue and rehabilitate him, although scars both physical and mental remained, which is why a failsafe (Omegon) and efforts to lessen his legion's dependence on him (One Among Many) were implemented, as well as the whole truth-removing operation surrounding him
This is why Emps wanted Horus brought before him (albeit under the pretense of execution). To heal him
>>
>>54359775
You wanted proofs. 'ere >>54360329
>>
>>54360329
What happened to the other one?
>>
>>54360649
Got stuck in a toilet which is why not even the traitors talk about him.
>>
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>>54360649
HH3 says something about the dangers of recruiting from tainted sources, citing that the failure and loss of [REDACTED] at this point.
This might be related to what happened in pre-Unification Siberia, where the non-compliant unleashed warp and, allegedly, daemonic weaponry.
>>
How is Mechanicum to play? Is a Castellax and myrmidon heavy list viable?
>>
>>54360329
>>54360711
>book is an in-universe artifact
>redacts information about the two lost legions but not all the Chaos primarchs
Why bother? It's not like they could have done anything worse.
>>
>>54360329
>>54360336
There is no proof there at all, just wild speculation.

More importantly the use of [REDACTED SECTION] between Legions and lost implies that a fair amount of information was removed and Inferno confirms in the very next paragraph that the Space Wolves earned their "executioners" nickname from the decade-long post-Rangdan genocidal purges that they and the First were tasked to perform across whole sectors of human worlds to ensure the threat was ended.

tl,dr: You got rused by FW.
>>
>>54360789
We know who's the writer...but we don't know who's supposed to be the reader. After all, isn't [REDACTED] kinda like "you don't have enough clearance"?
>>54360791
The second one is speculation. The one about Rangda is stating definite facts, like how it was by the Randgan Brain Eaters hand and how Emperor ended it by taking stuff from the Noctis Labrynth.
>>
>>54360789
Because the Emperor is a barely living corpse on a life support toilet, and is too busy screaming a galactic lighthouse into space to spare the time to lower the security clearances on II and XI or increase those on Horus' gang.

The bureaucracy is just following the rules and making sure to dot the i's and cross the t's. Because being a bureaucrat isn't about doing what makes sense, it's about doing what the rules say you do.
>>
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>>54360791
>the Space Wolves earned their "executioners" nickname from the decade-long post-Rangdan genocidal purges that they and the First were tasked to perform across whole sectors of human worlds to ensure the threat was ended.
Tfw the Space Wolves are the Emperor's Executioners...or REGULAR MORTALS.
Gee, such a difficult job! Only the Space Wolves would be able to do it!
Also the First but let's exclude them.
Oh, and that Ethnarch from the Yndonesic bloc, doing pogroms without even using Space Marines. Muh dog-genes.
>>
>>54360879
To be fair, it was originally supposed to be an insult. They spent a whole decade murdering innocent Imperial civilians just in case, they were not looked highly upon for it.
>>
>>54360052
>Why do people like Sanguinius?
Because he is bishonen twink.
>>
>>54360772
Yes, but you do need transports for those Myrmidons, and only Castellax means you cannot score.
>>
>>54360165
Maybe everything that could be said was said already? Nothing relevant is going to come for a year anyway. At least we memed about and got angry together.
>>
>>54360831
>a galactic lighthouse into space to spare the time to lower the security clearances on II and XI or increase those on Horus' gang.

The Choir create the Light. The Emperor just guides it.
>>
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Tribune Ixion Hale and Companions.

Nearly done. I couldn't have thought painting gold is this much fun, honestly.
>>
>>54363792
Really liking the glistening red on the shoulderpads. Gives a bit of variety to the model and looks regal. Maybe expand it to a few gems on the armour to tie it all together?
>>
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>>54363792
Looking good, fellow custodian. Really tempted to get Ixion Hale as well. The model is so good, but even the cheapest one on ebay is, like, €80.
Looking forward to working on these fuckers some more.
>>
>>54363985
Paid 45 quid for Ixion..
Worth every penny though.
>>
>>54360789
The book was written after the Heresy, so it's possible those records were expunged before it, thus there were no records to write about.
>>
>>54364203
>45 quid for Ixion
Man, I am envious. Ebay only offers me Ixion to import from the UK for ~80€ or 'pro-painted' shit for ~200€. I guess I'll just need to bear it and pay that much him and the Errant-Questor for AoS.
>>
Does anyone have the archive of these Horus Heresy General header images or knows who makes them?

I find them to be legit hillarious.
>>
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How can any of the other legions even come close to matching this sort of power? What was FW thinking when they wrote this?
>>
>thread is 8 hours old
>only 30 posts
>literally less than 5 posts per hour

It's over. Let's let it die for a week, then bring it back, see what changes, hmm?
>>
>>54364778

> Let's let it die for a week, then bring it back, see what changes, hmm?

Like that's going to do anything. It's astounding how swiftly and thoroughly FW trashed their own game with the insane decision to stick with 7th. HH is in a coma until they move with the times, the only hope is that they quickly see the folly of their ways and act to rectify it before matters become terminal. There's nothing any of us can do to revitalise /hhg/ until they do that.
>>
>>54359808
>>54358847
Horus is almost killed by the grav weapon in Horus rising, emperor is almost nuked, they try to poison the emperor but the rogue trader is killed, also most civilisations they fight are backward and terra is unique
>>
>>54364769
>60 of 300
>more than 10% of the legion in a single engagement
>>
>>54364840
Except you know making our own port to 8th
>>
>>54364904
>60 of 300
Any particular reason you think this?
>>
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Okay, hear me out here. Chymeriae Blackshields using the new Primaris:
- Captain - Reaver-Lord
- Librarians, Ancients, Apothecaries and Chaplains - various Consuls
- Intercessors and Reivers - Marauders
- Redemptor dread - Leviathan dread
- Inceptors - two squads joined as one squad of Destroyers and a Moriat
- Hellblasters - Tactical Support squad
- Lieutnants - Veterans

Not sure what to do with the Gravis Captain and the Agressors, but the rest should work well enough.
>>
>>54364913
>own port
Remind me again how well 9th Age is doing.
>>
>>54364963
>Primaris as Blackshields
nice meme :^)
>>
>>54364840
I'm not sure staying in 7th is that big a deal; it's simply that 40k is hyped up right now. I bet 99% of 30k players either play or used to play 40k, and many of the latter left because 7th ed (the meta more than the rules) was a clusterfuck. Now there's hope in the 41st millennium, so it's natural that everyone still interested in 40k is taking a look.

Remember how hyped Shadow War Armageddon was? That totally petered out. (I blame not keeping the Necromunda campaign rules - the new ones are terribly dull, and it's too easy to buy all the equipment you want.) Among people who play both 30k and 40k, a milder version of that will happen eventually.

Okay, there is one problem - we'll probably get fewer new Heresy players from the 40k pool, both because of the very different rules, and because 40k doesn't suck as badly. But that isn't a huge factor in short-term forum activity.
>>
>>54364769
Didn't seem to help them much on Prospero.
>>
>>54364963
Who really wants to play a 28mm scale army against a 32mm army? Awkward for both players, imo.
>>
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>The engagement was not the decisive victory sought by the Iron Warriors, with both the loyalist and traitor fleets suffering significant losses in equal measure... Following the Imperial Fists withdrawal, Perturabo smashed the consoles on the bridge of the Iron Blood in a fit of temper when it became clear that his forces escaped defeat only because of the Retribution Fleet's sudden suicidal withdrawal.[3c]
>In the months after the battle, Perturabo became increasingly saturnine and volatile, to the point where even his closest captains could not be sure of his favor or the rationality of his judgments. One sure way to provoke the primarch's rage, Forrix later remarked to Barban Falk, was to speak of the Imperial Fists in any terms other than hatred and contempt.[6]
>>
>>54364769
The Blood Angels and White Scars co-pioneered the Librarius project. I imagine they'd also be able to gather a few dozen librarians, even if not as easily.
>>
>>54365037
Thats where my second question comes in. Why would FW write that story when its shown when they needed to uses their powers they were useless?

>>54365064
Can you think of another story where any librarians are depicted as being that powerful? Grey Knights vs Angron on Armageddon perhaps.
>>
>>54364913

Yeah, sure, because homebrews do so well. It's a holdover, but it won't stop the rot.

>>54365031

I'd say that the greater obstacle is that 99% of 30k players know that 7th edition is/was an overcomplicated mess of a game, and one of the big appeals of the heresy was that it offered a more balanced and playable version of it. Aside from a few vocal grognards, everybody recognises that 8th provides that, much more so than 30k. So long as it remains in 7th there is next to no reason for any of the players who have lost interest to return, and unless they're lured into coming back soon, many of them will never do so.
>>
>>54364924
Didn't they have 300 before Magnus
Because LMAO Persians have a spartan theme
>>
>>54365146
>7th edition is/was an overcomplicated mess of a game
I keep seeing this as a complaint but other than the psychic phase there is very little complicated with the 7th rules.

Yeah you have to check rules now and then but it's a fucking war game representing armies facing each other, if you want a simple game to play then go buy snakes and ladders or something.
>>
>>54365154
No the lowest they got down to was 1000 at the time when Magnus 'found' his cure.
>>
>>54365154
Emperors Children were at 300 at some point before they found Fulgrim.
>>
>>54365200
>a billion rules exceptions
>flyer shittery
>arbitrary walker/monster distinction
>endless minor rules
>slow cover mechanics and templates
>stupid psychic bullshit
I could go on.
>>
>>54365265
Half of what you mentioned isn't even complicated, rules exceptions and minor rules are the same point and I've already mentioned the psychic phase.

Basically your complaint is having to remember stuff, and you are massively exaggerating how bad that is.

Yes the game wasn't perfect but it's no way near as bad as is suggested. People are pretending that they are actually sitting about for half the game checking rules which is false unless the platers are either retarded or a rules sperg, and sperges are sperges in any edition.
>>
So I'm confused on something. Pride of the Legion means I can't take allies.

But does that mean they can be the allied force instead?
>>
>>54365316
Yeah, any "can't take allies" RoW can be taken AS allies.
>>
>>54365312
Well, considering just how well received 8th is there must be something about it that appeals to people quite a lot.
>>
>>54365200
>>54365312

>cross referencing multiple books, each hundreds of pages long, in order to do the simplest of things

Sure, you could learn all the rules and USRs off by heart and play the game based on memory, but it's a lot to memorise, and full of tedious interactions and exceptions. One of the biggest improvments in 8th is just paring the rules down to the extent that, armed with a 15 page rulebook (half of which is example turns and the like) and a couple of datasheets, you have all the info you need for a game. There's an actual chance that a normal human being could learn to play in a couple of games. Smoothing out the proliferation of unit types into a single profile and the introduction of keywords straightens out a lot of potential disputes and removes a huge amount of issues which used to cluster around how to interpret GW's haphazard rules writing.

Essentially, you are the vocal grognard I mention in >>54365146, and nobody agrees with you.
>>
>>54365400
>there must be something about it that appeals to people quite a lot.

ah, the argument of the contard

"lots of people LOVE casual shit, it must be good"
>>
>>54365412
>cross referencing at most three books, each hundreds of pages long (but most of that is fluff and pictures), in order to do only the most complex of things
Depends entirely on what you consider simple but you are exaggerating the issue.

>Essentially, you are the vocal grognard I mention in >>54365146
>opposing views make you a grognard

>and nobody agrees with you.
There are many complaints about the 8th edition, it got a lot of things right but also got a lot wrong.
>>
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/forge-world-preview-the-sisters-of-silence-kharon-pattern-acquisitor/
>complemented by the iron-maiden style hatches on the sides of the vehicle. These are not for the Sisters of Silence but for their unfortunate psychic quarry
Brutal.
>>
>>54365200

>Insane amount of USRs
>Some of which are literally just combined versions of other USRs, like zealot
>Unit types split into autistically specific categories with their own specific little rules that have almost no bearing on the game in 90% of situations
>Fucked up armor system in which vehicles of all types are explicitly shittier than monstrous Creatures for no reason
>good awful psychic system in which 70% of powers we're completely useless and the other 20% were game breaking powerful
>God awful warlord trait system in which 90% of them were completely useless and 10% were game breakingly powerful
>Ridiculous and arbitrary rules for charging that made almost all melee armies shit against shooting armies
>Fucked up mission types like Purge the Alien which were could be auto-losses or wins depending on the players' army comps

And this is all just off the top of my head. 7th was completely fucked.
>>
>>54365548
>mortars, artillery guns, and tanks can now sometimes only kill about 2 people from a 50 man horde standing in the open
>mechanized and deep strike armies will always get to go first forever and have a distinct advantage the entire game
>deep striking is safe and there is literally no reason not to do it
>a taurox prime can fire 2 autocannons, a 20 shot gatling cannon, and a storm bolter from an antenna
>lasguns wound Land Raiders
>flamers are good anti-air
>Defender allocatteres all casualties, but casualties can spillover to models out of range and line of sight. A Stormraven can wipe out a 10-man Guard squad if it can draw a line from its wingtip to a single model in the squad.
>Hope you enjoy spamming Smite.
>guilliman can stand behind a guardsman and not be shot
And this is all just off the top of my head. Lets not pretend that 8th is the best thing since sliced bread, it has it's share of problems, its just that it fixed the bad stuff with 7th. It also replaced the good stuff as well, sometimes with bad stuff.
>>
>>54364680
>unironically playing Custodes AND Stormcast
How much of a pleb can one man be?
>>
>>54364913
This is pretty decent
>>
>>54365613
>guilliman can stand behind a guardsman and not be shot
I don't get this criticism at all. He can stand in a blob of imperial army dudes and not get shot in 30k (given, you know this is the 30k general) so why is it weird that that can happen in 8th edition 40k?

As for the deep striking thing, let's not pretend drop pod deep strike (which is all anyone ever uses) carries any risks. If anything the rule that half the enemy army must start on the table is one I'd like to see brought into 30k; null-deply/alpha-strike is fucking boring to play against once you've faced it two or three times.
>>
>>54365312
Another anon here, I think you're underestimating how much of a hassle it is to remember stuff over the years when things are changing every edition.

>rule is worded one particular way in the 6th edition rule book
>my 5th edition codex modifies/interacts with that rule in a certain way
>my 6th edition codex is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction
>the 7th edition rule book is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction
>my 7th edition codex is released and is changed/worded differently, resulting in a slightly different interaction
Add in eventual FAQs in between steps, plus your opponent's rules affecting your own rules and it slowly becomes impossible to remember which version is how it currently works.

This can happen in 8th as well but the difference is that it'll be "codices with many rules referencing a rule book with few rules" rather than "codices with many rules referencing a rule book with many rules", reducing the risk of multiplicative complexity.
>>
>>54365613

I agree with plenty of those, but compared to the shitfest that was 7th they are mostly tiny, tiny problems.

>Things like artillery just need an update of weapon profiles (to be something like D6 autohits per 10 models in the unit or something), not a rewriting of the core rules.
>Lasguns really aren't that much of a threat to land raiders.
>So what about the taurox prime? It's just one unit.
>Flyers are a bit of a pain, there's no simple fix, immunity to autohits would have been sensible.
>Abstractions about positioning are worth it for how much it speeds up and smooths out moving models.
>Just kill the guardsman.
>>
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>>54365629
Huh, not bad anon, not bad at all. Is there any word on Legion Special rules and how they would interact with 8th ed?
>>
>>54365613
>templates aren't good
The same could happen before with scatter
And artillery tends to just wound not scatter irl
If only plasma had been changed an edition ago then we wouldn't have retarded grav
>>
>>54365629
Did you make this anon
>>
>>54365856
They've said that they want to see exactly how Chapter Tactics and Stratagems work in the upcoming SM codex before they try their hand at Legion-specific rules.

>>54365974
Nope, got it from here: http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/10351-the-8ed-heresy-project-legiones-astartes/
>>
>>54360329
A(nother) prime example why prequels are retarded and should be avoided.
>>
>>54360329
What do we actually know about the Rangda, apart from that they were hard as nails to fight?
>>
Can Dante of Blood Angels punch a titan?
>>
>>54366040
But think of all the time you spent happy whilst playing heresy
>>54366130
If that Titan is about to break the golden gate (b)ridge
Yes
>>
>>54366033
Can we make a pastebin of all people's attempts at 8th ed heresy with the key points of each system
>>54365005
Well paint sold more than fantasy so ...
>>
>>54366033
Huh, yeah I suppose thats true; not how I would approach the objective, but its a respectable choice.
Honestly I would leave specific legion rules as close to what they are currently, however initiative is scuttled so that changes the EC, Sallies, SoH, and likely a few others that I cant remember due to lack of sleep
>>
>>54366130

He can give it a go, certainly, but he's only got S4 fists and 6 attacks while the flimsiest of titans has 35 T9 wounds, so he'll be beating his hands on it for a while.
>>
>>54366253
>But think of all the time you spent happy whilst playing heresy

We've had HH era games before, they're not the problem. Problem is when they try to spin a detailed narrative and explain things, or just shove references in there to make them even deeper than they need to be. And then you have to handwave an problems that rise from this.
>>
>>54366306
But if he is in a ruin the titan can't attack back
>>
>>54366278
>EC
>lodge duellists
>select one of the following rules per unit, do not reveal the options until the enemy charges
>1. The baiter
>if an enemy unit charges this unit, this unit strikes first instead
>2. Special strike
>if this unit wounds a tank, double all wounds taken by the taken
Salamanders would lose the 'chargers strike first' bonus
What even do sons of Horus have
>>
>>54366306
Did you read last months battlereport, a knight can't attack units on the gangwalk above it
>>
>>54366352
Don't try writing rules ever again
>>
>>54366352
Taken by the tank
>>54366410
How could I best improve upon my writing technique for matters concerning rules for specific legiones astartes
>>
>>54366352

Both those rules are awful. In the great majority of cases the EC would just pick option 1, which is hella strong. On the flip side, Salamanders would be fucked in combat six ways 'til sunday.
>>
>>54366434
>How could I best improve upon my writing technique for matters concerning rules for specific legiones astartes
Rules writing is more an art than a science, some people just can't.
>>
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Why is Angron not the best straight up combat Primarch? Horus I can understand, but Russ? Or fucking Gulliman?
Hopefully if he gets Daemon-rules he'll be the murder machine he was born to be.

>>54360166
Why is there no Sangarius alt!Heresy?
>>
>>54366338
Ashkually, in 8th if the model doesn't have a base (and many people don't put their titan model on a base) you measure from the closest point of the model's hull. Given the rough height of marines on the top of ruins, this presumably means a warlord titan will be pelvic thrusting them to death.
>it's thrusting time
>no princeps no
>>
>>54366513
puts those Imperator dick cannons in a whole new light.
>>
>>54366477
Because in the lore he isn't.
>>
>>54366477

>>54366477

Angron was always just a roidragemarine even in the earliest lore. His playstyle even reflects this as he has notoriously destroyed whole dreadnought talons and Leviathans in gameplay.
>>
>>54366577
Didn't he beat Russ and Gulliman in a straight up fight?
Not sure how that doesn't qualify him as King Ass-Kick of Murder Mountain
>>
>>54366434
In terms of just writing technique, I'm going to be charitable and guess English isn't your first language.
>>
>>54366352
>>54366434
>>54366453

To further on this, initiative is gone, there's no point in trying to recreate bonuses that applied to it. I'd reckon on EC getting a charge bonus instead, something like a reroll of one dice, alongside an ability to reroll advances and extra consolidation distance, to emulate the crusader USR. Perhaps added to a bonus to battleshock against units they charge. Something along those lines.

Salamanders aren't even that hard - they get ATSKNF (reroll on battleshock), and reduce advance and charge distances by 1". Perhaps immunity to things which can reduce their Ld. Essentially identical to their current rules (amd kind of the opposite of EC).

SoH aren't that challenging either - Death Dealers stays the same, and Merciless Fighters can be easily recreated (SoH units can carry out an additional attack after all other attacks in the fight phase in any combat where they outnumber their enemy). Now that you don't roll for reserves Edge of the Spear is useless, though either that doesn't matter, or 30k ought to have rolling for reserves 7th-style (AL rely on it quite a lot).
>>
>>54366676

Russ jobbed to him while his boys clobbered Angron's boys to show the value of teamwork, and Angron couldn't take a hint. Guilliman isn't a melee master in the first place.
>>
>>54366676
>Russ
Whilst Russ had him surrounded and all minions killed off
Like losing your queen to force a checkmate
>guilliman
Lost it even with Lorgar ascended's help
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HOLY SHIT WOLFKEKS FUCKING ANNIHILATED
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>>54366810
>Doubles event
The fuck is this.
>>
>>54366877
You go with a friend and play warhammer together
An alien concept to the sons of Russ and Guillman
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>>54366730
>>54366776
>Guilliman isn't a melee master in the first place
Ah, I double checked the Mathhammer and it looks like Angron beats him anyway, my bad.
But Russ didn't lose the duel on purpose. I won't dispute he out manoeuvred Angron and proved his point (even if Big A didn't get it), but he got the shit kicked out of him because of it.

>Lost it even with Lorgar ascended's help
Lorgar hindered him deliberately to make Angron mad enough to become a Daemon.
"He locked Angron’s muscles, setting fire to the synapses in his brain. He stole the chance at a killing blow, fuelling the World Eater’s rage even higher."
>>
>>54365031
>Remember how hyped Shadow War Armageddon was? That totally petered out. (I blame not keeping the Necromunda campaign rules - the new ones are terribly dull, and it's too easy to buy all the equipment you want.)
Honestly, I think making the boxed set and extremely limited run had a bigger effect. No idea what the company was thinking with that.
>>
>>54367400
You can still buy the rules you just can't buy the set with scouts and irks
>>
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Let's see how this goes
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>>54367917
Tighten those a bit more.
>>
>>54367917
If that's supposed to be a masking tape template for hazard stripes I think this isn't going to go well.

It looks very unsecure and the stripes aren't even width.
>>
>>54367917
NO, abort! Abort!
Reallign those and put them on more evenly.
>>
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>>54367956
>>54367967
>>54368002
>tfw audiobook is so good you forget to check on the thread
Well fuck
Also seriously WTF is wrong with the ultramarines
>disobey your superior's orders
>don't kill your superior for killing civilians
>get censured for either
It's a lose lose situation, no wonder Guilliman had no friends
>>
>>54368135
Expand a bit more if you could, I'm not familiar with that fluff.
>>
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Yep that's horrible so let's try taping the blackbits and reapplying yellow
>>54368223
Audiobook the red mark
Ultramarine gets censured for letting world eaters
>>
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>>54366810
>>
>>54367650
And the terrain, templates, dice, but most importantly the counters.

You could download the old Specialist Games for free for years and they still died off because of the lack of even pretend support.
>>
>>54368637
You can or can't buy counters
Also tau tidewall came back on sale
>>
>>54367320
>but he got the shit kicked out of him because of it.
He was pulling his punches, because he was there on his own instead of for the Emperor, and had he killed Angron it would've been really bad
>>
Looking for the Prospero Burns painting guide. Asked in 40kg, got sent to WIPg. Asked in WIPg, got sent here.
>>
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>>54369402
Only got this sorry anon
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>>54368276
Are you retarded? Do you not understand what stripes are?
>>
>>54365782
>Things like artillery just need an update of weapon profiles (to be something like D6 autohits per 10 models in the unit or something), not a rewriting of the core rules.

Most of 7th (barring the psychic phase) would have been better off with slight mods and not rewriting the core rules. Simple fix for vehicles, glances do nothing and remove the damage chart. You don't even need to add in the damage system, if 1 lascannon can only take 1 hull point you still only need 5 penetrations to kill a spartan, rather than giving them 24 wounds or whatever taking D6 from a lascannon. That way we still get things like armor facings, directional weapons, etc. And vehicles can no longer be 1 shot and aren't inherently worse than MCs. Instead we got wound bloated models with toughness values and the ability to shoot from a tire, and can somehow fight in combat.
>>
>>54368276
Holy shit what the fuck are you doing that's awful fucking stop get ahold of yourself man
>>
>>54369402
Which legions are you after? I cant be arsed to post them all
>>
>>54369751

I'm trying to see what they do to differentiate between Dark Angels, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard for black armor. I am looking to paint some Dark Angels.
>>
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>>54368276
This may or may not work, but in order to get equal width stripes you can try covering the whole thing with lines of tape, then take off every other one so each stripe is the width of the tape. And for chrissakes secure your tape better.
>>
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>>54369888
I see.
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>>54369936
Just a moment.
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>>54369952
Hope that helps.
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>>54365613

Literally everything you mentioned doesn't actually effect the game in a negative manner, they're just weird abstractions.

So no, nothing you listed is even comparable.
>>
>>54369936
>>54369952
>>54369968

Thank you based anon!
>>
>>54369685
People complain it about, but forget that a bike has always been able to drive into one direction and fire into another, riptide doesn't have facings, a wraith knight can shoot out of its big toe, if it likes, and a stormsurge can fight better than a dreadnought, despite not having arms.

7e rules are just modified 3e rules. During that time we've seen the rise of super-heavies, big(er) monsters, flyers, fortifications, etc. There a whole world of things that were not taken into account when 3e was being made, and were just tacked on.

I'm fine with bringing the rules back a big and doing a ruleset that implements all these new things. In the future I'm sure we'll see changes, but at least it's build on a core system that takes everything into account.
>>
>>54370001
Glad I could help!
>>
>>54370127

Holy shit, are those your models?
>>
>>54370235
No, I wish. Those are from a dude from bolterandchainsword.
>>
>>54369113
Please don't fanon Russ into being even more of an idiot than canon already makes him.
>>
>>54370007
>but forget that a bike has always been able to drive into one direction and fire into another
Vehicles could do this too. Pivoting was a fucking thing.

>riptide, wraith knight, stormsurge
Nobody is defending any of those, or the dreadknight being monstrous creatures.

>super-heavies, big(er) monsters, flyers, fortifications
All were things before even 3.5, they just (mostly) weren't shoved into the core book because they weren't seen as something appropriate for the core game.
>>
>>54368276
1. They're not diagonal.
2. They're not even.
3. They're not tightened down.
4. If hand-brushing, you need to drybrush the black on. That'll prevent bleeding.
>>
>>54370537
>Vehicles could do this too. Pivoting was a fucking thing.

So what's the problem?

>Nobody is defending any of those, or the dreadknight being monstrous creatures.

Nobody isn't complaining about it 24/7 or pretending like this is something completely new and unheard of.

>All were things before even 3.5

Outside of very special rules for very special situations, how much did you see super-heavies, big monsters (not talking about carnifexes and wraithknights here), flyers and fortifications in 3e?
>>
>>54369649
I know, but did not put the tape on properly, or do we want to go into a post modernist sense of what stripes are
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>>54369931
Yeah will try securing more next time, and I did that every other technique but the lack of tightness and slightly uneven cuts probably led to that
>>
>>54368276
Are they suppoused to be tiger stripe iron warriors?
If so then make sure your force is led by Kroeger to go with that Wehrmacht theme
>>
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>>54364769
Fucking witches, srsly.
Then again, 50 witches...
>Court of the PotL-but-better
>HQ
Two ML3 Praetors and Ahriman, Ohrmuzd's ML4 brother (Magnus is in the toilet)
Three Legion Command squad
>Elites
2 Veteran squads (with Brotherhood of Psykers)
1 Khenetai blade cabal (BoP ML1)
1 Terminator squad (BoP ML1)
>Troops
6 Sekhmets
>Fast
3 Ahmitara squad
>Heavy
3 Castellax-Achea maniples. Because fuck it

That's 103 fucking witches that can spew lightning bolts, using 3-15 robots as proxies, backed by 30 snipers with psychic auto-aim. And you know who are the only non-robbut models that are NOT psykers in that list?
The fucking Command squads.
You can field two times the witchforce in the Exemplary Battle.
THE THOUSAND SONS ARE A MEME ARMY
>>
>>54364963
Most people would autistically (and literally) shriek at such an army, mainly because of MkX armour, most noticeable on limbs and torso, aka everywhere. I mean it does make sense T5 astartes are bigger than the regular astartes, as seen with Polux (very tol and still T4, but S5).
>Unless you want to bring Chubstartes :^)
>>
>>54371746
Pretty sure Ahriman can turn his command squad into psykers cant he?
>>
>>54370694
>So what's the problem?
Removing both firing arcs and armor facings greatly reduces the strategic complexity of movement and positioning both by and against vehicles.

That said, it's better to remove both of them than to remove just one.

>>54370694
>how much did you see super-heavies, big monsters (not talking about carnifexes and wraithknights here), flyers and fortifications in 3e?
Fortifications were fairly frequent. Everything else was only for big games because of the size, cost, and complexity issues. Kind of wish the game would swing back that way.
>>
>>54371826
>Unless you want to bring Chubstartes :^)
Haegr the Mountain was best SW and did nothing wrong.
>>
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Looking for these short stories, anyone wanna share?
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>>54371959
>>
>>54371959
More Land? Fuck to the yes. He's a Mechanicum character that might actually stick around to CONTINUE to be cool rather than Decima and the villain lineup who are awesome for one book then vanish. Sodding Astartes focus, Mechdel Test when? ;)
>>
>>54372014
Although this may be due to an utter lack of focus in books, I can't really think of a BAD Mechanicus characters. Couple forgettable ones, but none that caused any particular REEEE. Land and Decima should totally be a buddy cop show, Scoria is an excellent horror movie villain seen only in edge-of-screen flashes etcetera, Draykavac fights an excellent campaign and is almost the quintessential Dark Magos and Inar is a cool concept in a tank.
Skitarii Arook is a bro, Koriel Zeth is forgettable as hell and Kelbor is a decent villain with a few elements of cool fluff.
>>
>>54371852
>Removing both firing arcs and armor facings greatly reduces the strategic complexity of movement and positioning both by and against vehicles.

Well, seeing that it was not universal and some vehicles just didn't have to abide by those rules thanks to GW simply not classifying them as "vehicles". Imagine if Mechanicum robots were actually walkers like Dreads.

>Fortifications were fairly frequent.

In what edition? Apart from rules for terrain, I do not remember there being Fortification in any shape or form the way we see today. At most for special missions, etc. Not a thing you bought for your arm as part of it.
>>
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>>54371842
You're right, he can turn his Command squad into Brotherhood ML2 Divination for +50pts, making the omission of Brotherhood for regular command squads a deliberate decision and turning them into even more of a meme squad.
108 witches, scouting 3 units plus the 3 Ammitaras.
>>
Could anybody upload Dark Compliance by chance? Pretty please?
>>
>>54372350
http://audiobookbay.la/audio-books/warhammer-40k-dark-compliance-horus-heresy-audio-drama-john-french/
>>
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>>54372180
>I can't really think of a BAD Mechanicus characters. Couple forgettable ones, but none that caused any particular REEEE
This is the Mechanicum's malediction. To be cool mechanicum in a galaxy of space marines. Despite making anything that has more than three moving parts or lights in it, and being tied to Knight Worlds, the Colegia Titanica, mortal regiments (through Manufactorums), sending Explorator fleets into the void where Macharius' men and not even marines go, having both Skitarii and Taghmata armies and even having a hand into the Ordo Sinister...they end up being akin to CSM Apothecaries.
"Don't worry, they're there in the fluff. All the way to the back and to the left ;^)"
And the """focus""" is usually appearing once and getting killed (Hyeronima, Koriel) or only talking to a SM warlord about space marines (Land, Cawl), being a plot device at best.
>>54372014
Mechdel test and Decima-Morturg cop show fucking when REEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>54370127
I fucking love Dark Angels.

>>54370297
Do you have a link to his stuff?
>>
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>>54366269
>>54372505
We also have one of our own, but nobody took an interest to it.
8E homebrews have been posted about 5 times already, and the fact we haven't talked about it is an indicator nobody cares, because /tg/ doesn't get shit done.
>>
>>54372501
I mean, I'm fairly sure you could make an entire setting or two fairly easily about JUST the Mechanicum, or hell, even one Forge World. Pick a genre, you can probably manage it somewhere in those vast arcologies. They're perhaps the single most versatile faction ever, too, and you can write their characters pretty much however you want. If I had any real writing skill aside from doing decent army fluff I'd probably give a Mechanicum campaign book a go, put them against Army with Marine support and just Cog Porn the hell out of everything.
>>
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>>54369968
>>
>>54370817
Tamiya masking tape would work better, but it isn't perfect either - nothing is if you're using a brush. Keep the brush nearly dry and be careful of which direction you brush in.

There's painter's tape (for painting walls) that tries to form a tighter seal at the edge. Around here it's yellow or green. You'll still get a little bit of bleeding with wet paint, though.
>>
>>54372501
>Mechdel test fucking when
When you win a battle against marines without any help ;)
>>
>>54372252
Cityfight and Imperial Armour are the two that come to mind. There was probably also some stuff in CA, WD, and some of the supplemental codices.

They're not quite the same as what we have now, but they're closer than flyers.
>>
>>54369931
>white and red
>white scars
>later notice the axe and insignia

Huh
>>
>>54372501
>>54372764
Know No Fear passes the Mechdel Test, doesn't it? In the orbital defence station there's two magi, who talk to each other, about something other than a space marine.
>>
>>54372596
Huh, I asked about the Bolter and Chainsword Dark Angel thread. But concerning the lack of interest may simply imply that very few anons in the general actually play the game. I myself just collect and paint while hoping to play in the future.
>>
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>>54365051
>And then, after making his sons use the corpses of their brothers as cover, use up all their ammo and dull their blades trying to reach the incredibly valuable objective of a courtyard full of inward-facing automated guns, Dorn pulled an Angron Jenkins and charged alone at a mass of chaos space marines, led not by Horus but by Abaddon, whose army of defeated vets was able to nullify the might of the erstwhile mighty IF fleet.
>But Dorn wasn't Angron, so he got rekt by normie CSM, probably armed with chainswords
:^)
>>
>>54365498
>complemented by the iron-maiden style hatches on the sides of the vehicle. These are not for the Sisters of Silence but for their unfortunate psychic quarry
Or for attached loyal NL characters
>>
>>54372605
>Pick a genre, you can probably manage it somewhere in those vast arcologies.
Time to start brainstorming Medieval Colonial Fantasy the Forge World. Beyond the Slag River? The Black Manufactorum?
>>
>>54372867
World Eaters, cunningly brutal or brutally cunning?
>>
>>54372845
Yeah, there were plethora of different rules, but did anyone actually use them in regular play? They were all small, supplementary additions, not part of the core game. I don't remember anyone showing up to a game with CityFight, IA and WD fortifications. Catachan and Kroot codexes just had rules for traps.
>>
>>54365613
This. All fucking this.
Except for the lasguns one. There's nothing you can't solve with enough lasguns :^)
t. Imperialfag
But yeah fuck everything else...EXCEPT THAT SWEET AP ARMOUR MODIFYER SYSTEM. Worth giving up vehicle facings for.
>>54365782
>>Things like artillery just need an update of weapon profiles (to be something like D6 autohits per 10 models in the unit or something), not a rewriting of the core rules.
But they won't ever fix templates. Templates got KEKED TO OBLIVION, forever. And will never be good, because GW will only admit to typos, not to shitty rules.
>>
FW can always add rules. The current ones aren't exactly 7th ed; we've also got holdovers from before (Troops score) and restrictions on list-building. Those are hugely important, and I'd expect them to continue if HH moved to 8th.

FW could take it a step further and give vehicles -1T if hit from the rear and/or side 45-degree arcs, or maybe a -1 to the wound roll for more effect. I'm fine with being able to shoot all over (maybe with an exception to the largest weapons). What I want is a reward to flanking.
>>
>>54370127
That's a cool dread.
Why is there no Dreddnought yet?
>>
>>54372764
>t. medieval peasants defeating Night Lords.
It has been demostrated BL doesn't get to decide anymore who should win and how.
>>
>>54373122
>What I want is a reward to flanking.

That bonus better transfer over to other models as well. Models in MkIII should suffer -2, because their rear armour is weaker to compensate for the heavier front armour.
>>
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>>54372959
>Medieval Colonial Fantasy the Forge World
You're memeing, but they already exist: Knight Worlds are Camelot but with Mecha and Godzilla, and they're almost always oathed to a Forgeworld, exchanging produce for tech & manteinance.
>The Ingenious Freeblade Lord Quixotus of La Mancha.
>>
>>54373179
>t. medieval peasants defeating Night Lords
That was in a Codex not BL. Also Night Lords don't count, they're more of a running joke than actual marines.
>>
>>54373416
They're not a running joke! They're actually falling back :^)
>>
>>54373416
>no true space marine fallacy
>>
>>54372764
Except the reason we want it is because Black Library, GW and FW have NO sense of scale to a point it's surprising they can actually function in society as people, and thus hand Space Marines the victories all the time because Protagonists. If we were to get a proper Mechanicum book line I'd be happy, but sitting there and watching Mezoa be defended by a few thousand troops and a ragtag fleet so the Jesus Dread can have an impact rather than be instantly dusted by a Titan was fucking painful. That's not even plot-scale, that's being off by about SIX ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.
>>
>>54373703
I don't think there's a single fiction with "correct scale" for a galaxy wide warfare that still has any meaningful characters. I mean, sure, you can have a single dude at the top, but he would have to have an army of primarchs at his command, each commanding armies of generals to just lead their forces across all the planets they're invading. It'd be at such a scale that individuals would not matter. What point is there to a story of captain on the field, when at best he's part of a massive invasion force across the planet, and his success or defeat would not mean that much on the grans scale. Doesn't matter if he gets killed and his entire company with him, there's 12 companies marching up behind him. And if you do concentrate on the individual, then the war itself is distant and insignificant to their story.
>>
>>54373898
It'd be as if there were more imperial factions than just space marines, right? Uncountable hordes of mortal regiments, hundreds of Skitarii legions, scores of Knight houses, dozens of Titan legions, etc.
But no, only space marines.
Then again, this isn't a series about a galactic conflict: it's a series about space marines inna galactic conflict, which is different, turning everybody else into background characters.
Because they lack a sense of scale.
And even at that scale, there is still a place for the individual, as they can affect stuff especially when it's big and of less numbers. Like captains of flagships, or the adept managing to restore Macragge's defense grid, or Jahgatai retaking the spaceport. People among the whole, whose actions affect the many.
But Loken won't fucking die.
>>
>>54373898
Yeah, but you can at least TRY to have numbers vaguely approaching a NATIONAL battle when fighting for the fate of an entire planet city factory containing billions. It's really not hard to get at least within the right power of ten.

As for the scale of the setting, every other Sci-fi author manages. Look at the Culture, they kill trillions in brushfire wars and still manage to get good characters like Gurgeh or Mistake Not. I know, not the same thing, but you can easily have grandiose scaled war and still keep an eye on the little guy, we have entire series of war films proving just that and the excerpts like Pic Related.

It just feels more like a Space Marine Character WWE tournament at present, honestly, and >>54374090 is correct.
>>
>>54374090
>Horus Heresy
>not about a galactic conflict

Looks like I made a mistake.

>It'd be as if there were more imperial factions than just space marines, right?

No, there'd just be way more space marines.

>there is still a place for the individual, as they can affect stuff especially when it's big and of less numbers

What I mean is that if you're gonna concentrate on the conflict itself, then you would have to concentrate on the big picture. You wouldn't have a general responsible for a massive galactic war leading small commando forces. But you have it. So, that has to be important enough for the general to be there, and he has to have a strong enough effect on the outcome to justify him taking part in the battle on the ground, instead of just sending a few thousand marines instead. And, to make that individual's personal contribution to the battle more important, the battle has to be smaller than millions of dudes clashing.
>>
>>54374206
>you can easily have

Quite clearly you can't.

Also, seeing that I have not read Culture, are those characters super-heroing it up in those wars? I mean, this is a setting where the old general is the best fighter and charges in with a sword and pistol.
>>
Mechanicum-fags bitching that the fucking Horus Heresy of all things is focused on Marines will never stop being the silliest, stupidest shit to me.
>>
Do people care if I use vostoryans in 30k, the planet existed and equipment didn't change that much surely
>>
>>54374206
Archmagos Xander Treides detected.
I agree.

>>54374442
Nobody is asking for the Mechanicum to be the main character you jackass. That's not an argument.
>>
>>54374447
Nah, I think they suit the look pretty well, there's even art of the Imperial Army that looks alomst identical to them.
>>
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>>54366703
>>54366352
Im in argreement here, for SoH, perhaps tip of the spear drops the minimum distance away via deepstrike from 9" to 8"? As for the Alpha Legion could fiddle around with debuff options on the enemy force, unfamiliar with them currently
>>
>>54374442
Try living a day without us biological
>>
>>54374447
No Hunter, they don't care.
>>
>>54374331
Does every battle have to be about one dude who is The Hero? Personally I really enjoy the Black Book strategic overviews and descriptions, the bits that aren't about some protagonist. Sure, you can have smaller battles when you want to tell a narrative story, or focus on a small team on some mission in a larger one, but even when they don't do that thing they write like they're directing a border skirmish. There's a place for both, but that doesn't really justify completely ignoring any part of a setting or battle outside pistol range. HH2 did it well, grand sweeping descriptions and strategic maps before diving down into the perspective of some random Raven Guard and his personal story.

And nah, the human characters in the Culture don't fight much aside from the odd fistfight, although some are Minds and Ships that can probably prosecute a war like the Heresy singlehandedly because that setting is OP as balls. What I was pointing out is that it's fairly simple to treat the other factions and the scale of the war with any kind of basic respect, and they just don't bother.

>>54374442

We don't care if you focus on Marines, we would just rather not be treated like an Astartes punching bag where relevant, ignored when not and generally sitting there and watching as our diverse and interesting faction is used solely to suck the dicks of the Marines as they fight. We don't want to be the protagonists, just not perhaps Worfed worse than the bloody Nids while the writers ignore a vast and old pile of lore to render us incompetent and ineffectual.

>>54374505

Yeah, you got me. I do bitch about this a bit, but it's not like many other people were talking.

>>54374447

Nah, that sounds pretty damn cool for a Militia army, actually. I'm sure there's sone kind of comparatively well-armed infantry Provenances going around you can use.
>>
Angelis when, who know?
>>
>>54374606
>01010010 01100101 01100101 01100101 01100101 01100101 01100101 01100101
>>
>>54374442
It's just snowflakes being snowflakes. Some people don't like that their sekrit club got blown wide open by BaC/BoP, so have decided that they're too cool for marines now that everyone plays 30k marines.
>>
>>54374206
>Yeah, but you can at least TRY to have numbers vaguely approaching a NATIONAL battle when fighting for the fate of an entire planet city factory containing billions.
Just to spite you, "Fulgrim: Palatine Phoenix" is going to be about how Fulgrim conquers a world with only him and 7 warriors. Or at least he will try.
Presumably after learning of the 10 IWs doing garrison duty on a world of 130 million :^)
>>
>>54374736
The last loyalist Mechanicum character was introduced in HH1.
>>
>>54374618
Its the Horus Heresy.
Its always been about the marines.
You were always going to be a sideshow.

40k and the Heresy especially as always been heavily influenced by greek-style mythology like the siege of troy. If you're expecting realistic scale or warfare, I'm afraid you've come to the wrong series.
>>
>>54374618
>Does every battle have to be about one dude who is The Hero?

Well, it is a story of Big Heroes fighting across the galaxy, not armchair generals moving pieces on a board. People don't buy Spiderman comics to read about some random mooks and how they deal with their lives in a world with Spiderman, they want Spiderman.

I know it doesn't make real world sense in scale, but neither does something like Judge Dredd where he's watching over the East Coast of the US, yet always hangs out with the same few people and is always where something important happens.

>it's fairly simple to treat the other factions and the scale of the war with any kind of basic respect

But is it 40k then? I mean, you want primarchs to just sit around while trillions of guardsmen and marines fight and die across the galaxy?
>>
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>>54374782
That's right, in Troy only Achilles matters. That's why we don't have the Aeneid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeneid
>>
>>54374929
Wow well done completely missing my point.

Of course it isnt only Achilles, but it is focused on individual heroes and their deeds, Hector, Ajax et al.
>>
>>54374929
He's presumably referring to the structure of the combat chapters, which are basically Big Hero kills 26 named people in a row and routs their forces. This happens multiple times, for each of the classic heroes.
Diomedes' is particularly famous because he rip and tears dozens of people and manages to wound a god.

Fiction from that point onwards where heroic combat is a thing is directly or indirectly referencing Homer, it's part of being 'Homeric'. Warhams fiction does it a good amount, and even scales it up to their 100 guys defeat a planetary system bullshit.
>>
>>54374090
Literally know no fear
>>
>>54374616
I'm not hunter I'm the guy who was trying to write fluff for an IW garrison, and someone recommended a reference to anti Semitic Star Trek characters >
>>
>>54373234
I'm not, the Pictish stories were my favorite part of Conan. I want a story about low-tech FW vassals struggling to colonize ancient abandoned factories and plants while engaging in a bush war against mutant natives and the rogue heretek they worship as gods.
>>
>>54375048
This. Thanks anon.

After all if you look at moments during the seige of Terra like sanguinius holding eternity gate, or Sigismund becoming the emperor's champion and defeating challenger after challenger, I'd argue they're basically examples of an Aristeia
>>
>>54374206
Yeah, they make this mistake a lot. I'm fine with keeping the number of Astartes low (at least they bumped them up by an order of magnitude) but if 10,000 marines invade a planet it should be with 10 million human troops behind them. And that's for a planet with maybe <1 billion inhabitants.

There was that little tidbit in a black book about 3 billion people dying in a single system (or planet? I'll check after work). That's more like it!

>>54374447
By all means use the models, but be careful with your fluff. The whole idea of giving up their firstborns to the IG was because of guilt for not sending regiments to the Imperium during the Horus Heresy. They kept everyone home to keep the manufactora in operation.

That means Your Dudes are either from a fighting force formed before the Heresy, a PDF-sort of unit during it, or they aren't from Vostroya but look similar (the Geno Five-Two on the cover of Legion look similar, for example).

Vostroya was one of strange worlds more aligned with Mars than Terra, but they don't come across as having gone fully Mechanicum.
>>
>>54374782
>Its the Horus Heresy. Its always been about the marines. You were always going to be a sideshow.
There's a difference between being a sideshow and being punching bags and/or ignored. Don't make a faction and a whole line of models if you're just going to make them irrelevant in every piece of fluff.
>>
>>54375146
Even 40k, where Calgar defends an outpost on his own for days against Ork hordes. Or Harker strangles Lictors for their boots.
>>
>>54374447
>Reminder that Vostroya sat out the Heresy and that's why they have to give up all their firstborns to the Imperial Guard
But really the models are cool and I wouldn't mind at all.
>>
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>>54374447
As >>54375237 said, but looking at this Blanche art of an Imperial Army trooper, I can't help but to think that maybe Vossies aren't the only ones with that style of gear? Maybe they're like the Cadians of 40k?

Shame Army is now a bunch of steampunk diving suits and No Image Available.
>>
>>54374447
Pass them off as the Geno Chiliad, they looks basically the same, except the geno have little spikes at the top
>>
>>54375153
But surely they would have sent out armies beforehand, but not just answered a conscription call
We've had Tallarn covered so I can't wait to see what they do with Vostroya
>inb4 resin characters
>>
>>54375226
Nids wear boots?
>>
>>54375556
How else do you think they fit in, and go across marshs undetected
>>
>>54375556
None that he killed did, but he's determined.
>>
>>54375291
The Solar Auxilia are not normal army soldiers, I believe the normal IA guys are as varied as the worlds that raise them. The Solar Auxilia are rather supposed to be a standardized elite force that can be deployed by commanders who know their strengths and tactics.
>>
>>54376126
>not normal
>make quarter to third of the Army's fighting force

Also, I never said they represented the average IA soldier, I said that all we have for Army right now is the SA and Militia without models. No old art made into models we see on so many other armies. It's DKoK rules in space and OC Donut Steel Legion.
>>
>>54376551
I thought you meant that the army is the Solar Auxilia now and that the old lore had been replaced.

It is a shame we don't have other IA models but I doubt FW could support another range of expensive Guardsmen like Krieg or Elysia, ranges that have already been made smaller.
>>
>>54374442
With Bligh dead, the Mechanicum have lost their greatest champion. The reason the Mechanicum got something in every book is because Bligh loved them. Expect French to dial down the mechanicum in favour of those marines he likes.

Also expect Tallarn to be retconned as a disastrous defeat for the Iron Warriors.
>>
>>54376821
>retconned as a disastrous defeat for the Iron Warriors.
What? its never been an IW victory.
>>
>>54376924
French has a notable bias against Iron Warriors. He created the Decimation and write Peturabo as an idiot. And now he's writing the Black Books.
>>
>>54376966
CML for other legions (besides Ultras) when?
>>
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>>54376821
>>
>>54376966
>the decimation
Which I, as a member of the IVth, actually quite like as it shows Pertuabo's willingness to help mankind by only offering it the best warriors and generals
>>
>>54377024
If he meant it that way he would have killed to worst 10% rather than a random 10%.
>>
>>54376635
We could use some clarification on this front. My assumption is that pre-posthuman soldiers break down into the following:

Tallarn will give us rules for tank companies, and if they're nice they'll throw in a more generalized list associated with some other battle. The big question for me is whether they'll allow Chimeras and open the door to everyone's 40k Guard army. I'm not 100% sure that'd be a good thing.

But they might not give us a generalized IA list; Cults & Militia is so open that you can make lists that look like a lot of Imperial Army forces would. It'd be easier to create a new provenance that gives higher leadership to cover the gap between Militia and Solar Auxilia.

>>54376821
Is French officially in charge? They've got someone else's name on the rulebook.

I have (some) faith in FW not blowing it without Bligh. It's too late to take Dark Mechanicum out of Angelus anyway.
>>
>>54377040
But randomness is the best as how do you accurately define 'worst 10%'
>>
>>54364840
Give it some time for the hype to settle and people to get bored of 8th. Shouldn't take too long.
>>
>>54377040
If they were your top 90%, they wouldn't be dead.
>>
>>54365412
7th is too complicated. 8th is too simple.
What forge world need to do is make their own ruleset but all you nuGW apologists incessant whining will probably force their hand into doing 8th.
>>
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It's good to be back on the table modeling. It's nothing great but the third party shoulders help add something to my Varagyr
What is on your desk /hhg/?
>>
Oh noooo.
>>54377294
The AP system and movement stat of 8th in 7th would be much better.
And use an earlier psychic system.
And drop half the special rules.
>>
>>54372270
>"Being Chaos sucks," thought Ahriman
>>
>>54377361
I fucking hate Space Wolf players.
>>
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>>54377361
Fuck off don't use a trip
>>
>>54372596
My first thought when reading these rules: Why take regular Terminator armour for the Praetor when Tartaros does the same but has a 1 more inch of movement?
>>
>>54377361
Get fucked cunto
>>
>>54377361
>comes up with gay ass name
>spends money to get VI written on his pads when you could use transfers or free hand
>only meaningful customisation is a wolf wolf talon and a wolf wolf bit of fur on leather looks
Why would you even tell us that, are you that hungry for attention
>>
>>54377572
>Why take regular Terminator armour for the Praetor when Tartaros does the same but has a 1 more inch of movement?
Same reason you take Idomitus now.
>>
>>54377572
You know legion terminators have no reason to take indomitus over Tartarus ATM anyway
>>
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>>54377592
I've had the name for a while.
They're single piece shoulder pads, and Forgeworld has yet to release any for the Wolves.
>>
what an uncivilised legion
>>
>>54377610
>>54377636
Why not take the opportunity to fix a bad rule?
>>
>>54377691
Eat shit and die you fat fuck. We despise you and your horrid army. Your name is garbage and not deserved. A tripname is given by other anons, not made up for attention.

Burn in hell.
>>
>>54377691
>>54377723
that was for you
>>
>>54377691
Gay ass name is in reference to 'Varagyr'
>implying you put legion pads on anything but veteran units who have earnt that medal of honour after many successful campaigns
Yiff in hell furfags
>>
>>54377740
>tfw duke died because we gave him donations
>>
>>54377723
It's almost like that's the point.
>>
>>54377853
>kill any brothers that look like they'll become wulfen
>ride their cousins into battle and also flay alive
>chastise the raven guard for letting the AL corrupt the geneseed forming the raptors
>>
oh great it's shitposting time
>>
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>>54377853
why would you want to be savages with no taste in art or finesse
>>
>>54377923
Is it ever not shitposting time?
>>
>>54377939
Yes, we're the savages.
Uncultured, unrefined- yes.
But the Emperor's children have shown what an obsessive compulsion to be perfect can do to once fine warriors.
>>
>>54377962
>>54377974
At least the thread was dying of natural causes before you came back with your cancer
>>
>>54377974
just means we became more perfect
>>
>>54377939
Shame, really, when you consider stuff like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_of_poetry

30k SW art has all the nice knotworks and such on their things, but then the reality of it is just wolf heads and 40k bits on 30k models.
>>
>>54378017
no anon we need more wolves wolf armor with wolf upgrades and wolven werewolves
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>>54377361
I always appreciate the little touches like the numbers or symbols. Looks good man.
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>>54378017
>>54377962
Literal shitposting
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>>54378085
>mfw complimented
>>
>>54378005
The only thing the Emperor's children become was a disappointment. Instead of fighting for a future where each one of you could spend lifetimes in peace immersed in art and culture you threw it away in a madman's plot to resolve his daddy issues

>>54378047
Please no.

>>54378085
Thanks, I aim to have each model in my army be a little different from the others.
>>
>>54378141
I envy this. I love my Imperial Fists, but you can only have so much diversity in a force that prides itself on coherency. Best I can do are work with a few characters and trasnfers in unique locations across the army.

Would love to play you one day, m8. Both my Custodes and IF need more friendly matches.
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>>54378141
you just don't get us go bully magnus gawd!
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>>54378104
>>
>>54374991
>>54375048
I just wanted to be mad, ree. But like I said, I wish the Heresy was presented as the galactic conflict it was instead of a tragedy featuring the heroes we know.
A more accurate example could be the greeks being unable to win any battle UNLESS Achilles' Myrmidons were the ones saving the day.
>>
>>54378172
KA don't do this to yourself
Also you can mark units out my campaign badges
>>54378190
How did Magnus and fulgrim get on
>>
>>54378190
We could have gotten along in that peace-after-war, you and I.
The Wolves do have art and culture, however rugged it may be, but we push most of it aside for our duties.
In peace time, we would have turned back to it. Yes we still would have hunted great beasts, fought others and boasted loudly of our accomplishments, but we would also turn to the forge to make great items, to the still to create great meads, and to the long halls to sing songs of great deads long before our time.
You could have shared in that, we could have traded stories of our greatest accomplishments, been muses for your art and inspiration for songs of your own.
But the Emperor's Children threw it away.
>>
so do the ultramarines just not have a special contemptor?
>>
>>54378201
I don't think they had issues aside from magnus being a psyker, wich in the III legion was an imperfection.

>>54378248
no u. do you have anymore models to show off maybe lemon himself?
>>
>>54378278
AWG has a shitty 3rd party Russ.
>>
>>54376966
Fucking irredeemable IFfag. It'll be (even more) the Bias Heresy.
>>
>>54377458
He looks so cuuuuuute!
>>54377361
In 8E those claws wouldn't be utterly useless against other termies...but it's to give up on so many other rules.
>>
>>54378278
Why couldn't FW give their contemptors legs like those, instead of those stupid booties?
>>
>>54378199
Oh sure, I don't disagree with your first point, though I think there's space for both heroic combat and campaign combat.
As to the latter, the driving force of the Illiad is that Achilles actually asks the gods to fuck up the Greeks so that they come to him to save them. That of course bites him in the ass as it gets his fuccboi killed.
So on a character sense it's about personality faults such as overweening pride, arrogance, selfishness etc. But on the more macro level it's about how powers outside of your control can fuck you over no matter how smart, courageous or skilled you are. You could say the Dice Gods fuck over the Greeks for ages if you want.
Again, Warhammer takes inspiration from this with things like Tzeentch buttfucking the Sons and the Wolves etc.
Trying to apply more rational concepts like how it's dumb that the Greeks can't win until the Myrmidions rejoin the fight ultimately gets you nowhere as it was never intended to be a realistic story.
People try and apply that kind of logic to stories all the time - I think I've mentioned that the worst for doing this nowadays are youtueb movie reviewers who just nitpick plots - and it rarely proves useful to analysis because stories don't hold up to that kind of thing unless they were constructed to. They're more often designed to be educational or thought-provoking in some way, or just entertaining.
What I like about Warhammer fiction - the good stuff anyway - is that due to all the referencing and inspiration (when it's done well) you can get good silly entertainment from it while also getting the benefit of the themes it's drawing on and emulating.
>>
>>54378395
they don't get everything right
>>
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>>54377974
>Heavily armoured, his warplate a cathedral to chaos and debauchery
>Also a boob
I can't stop looking at this shit. But this affront to the Imperium will not stand.
>>
>>54378423
>I think I've mentioned that the worst for doing this nowadays are youtueb movie reviewers who just nitpick plots
Those are entertaining. How about they just write a non-retarded script? Movies don't have to be realistic but they should at least obey the rules they've previously established. Saying that
>stories and character motivations don't need to make any sense, it's art
is such a copout.
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>>54378172
>you can only have so much diversity in a force that prides itself on coherency
But you can. You didn't read the book? :^)
>>
>>54378661
you have something like this for my boys?
>>
>>54378595
They're fine as entertainment if you find ones that fit your tastes, but any attempt to take them seriously as analysis is doomed to failure. It just becomes someone saying stupid things while wanting to be taken seriously.
As to the second greentext, while I don't necessarily completely disagree, it's not a point I was making or intend to make and don't think Warhammer fiction does anyway.
>>
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>>54378395
Seconded. >>54378278's pic truly looks like a war engine.
>>
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>>54378677
Anon, those two EC have less variation than the IF I just posted. Or what do you specifically mean by "something like this"?
Alt: when in doubt, add byzantine and medieval art to the plate.
>>
>>54378773
Aren't IF Germanic Knights though?
>>
>>54378773
yeah your right, I think mixes of purple white and gold with some silver
>>
>>54360166
>Nearly annihilated the Sons of Horus during the Siege of Terra
>Snapped that same Bloodthirsters back over his knee

"If you truly do hail from the realm that men once called hell, when you return there, tell your kindred it was Sanguinius who threw you back."

Of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius is the ideal of what they should be. He fights for mankind's future.

tl;dr, Sanguinius was the closest thing to another Emperor. Fuck the Lion, fuck Papa Smurf.
>>
>>54378716
>any attempt to take them seriously as analysis is doomed to failure.
I disagree. Well written scripts are part of a good film. It's perfectly valid to criticize inconsistencies and mistakes. Otherwise enjoyable movies have been ruined for me by plotholes.

>It just becomes someone saying stupid things while wanting to be taken seriously.
Only if they start grasping at straws.
>>
>>54378890
Yes, part, and yes, valid behaviour. The difference is in intent and effectiveness. What I'm talking about is the focus on that above all else. Like, you say something was ruined by a plothole. Indeed, that can happen. But people often cry wolf about that kind of thing.
Similarly, I'm referencing bad youtube reviewers, not all. The ones that just harp on about perceived nitpicks in scripts and basically mention anything else. Most of the time they're incorrect anyway, but the problem is they've created a culture where people think the be-all and end-all to criticism is looking for logic gaps in plots and if they find one, or something they think is one, omg ruined forever endless trash etc.
This is reflected in book criticism where people just look at the plot or something like the kick off to his convo, where a stupidly small number of people on one side defeat an improbable force.
People overly focused on a certain aspect of storytelling call such a thing bad whilst ignoring other aspects, and make some questionable assumptions.

At the risk of going back to your art comment, I'm minded of Brothers of the Snake, which generated some rage about how 10 marines killed a thousand deldar, or how the couple hundred guys at the end or whatever wrecked an entire waaagh. Well, at the level of 'realistic' or campaign literature, they are correct, that's complete bullshit.
But those people were missing - or refusing to acknowledge - those sections being heroic literature in style, and the marines being expys of the Spartans.
So when criticising, to be effective you really need to make these things clear, I would say. Like, yes, it's valid to say the book sucks because it's unbelievable in the established setting. It's equally valid to say it was a moving and exciting story of masculine themes and heroic combat.

What's great about Warhammer fiction, especially with FW books, is that we can have both, and even pick and choose.
>>
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Without sounding overtly dumb, could someone explain to me the difference in 30K and 40K? Does it play differently?
I only really play 40K but I love the Horus Heresy lore.
I painted my Primaris Marines to be a 40K version of The Emperor's Children.
>>
>>54379202
30k is 7.5ed, 40k is 8th
>>
>>54379247
>30k is 7.5ed
Meaning?
>>
>>54379202
>>54379247

And when it was the same edition, 30k was a little more balanced due to absence of crazy 40k WAAC builds.

>>54379262

It means it has different gameplay right now.
>>
>>54379262
It is the base ruleset of 7th, but with GW moving to 8th, FW are now in charge of 7th ed, and are making some small changes in rules or whatever to help 30k run smooth
>>
>>54379247
I'd say 6.5e. It uses 7e rules, but also a lot of 6e stuff like restricted FOCs (instead of a mess of formations and detachments), FoW limits, etc.
>>
Someone give the game editions names like they were power armour marks please.
>>
>>54379331
>Mk1 Rogue armour
>Mk2 Best armour
>Mk3 Heresy armour
>Mk4 Babby's Fist armour
>Mk5 Taxi armour
>Mk6 Flyer armour
>Mk7 Formation armour
>>
>>54379276
>30k
>balanced
>when
>>
>>54379413

Roughly in the era before Custodes roamed the tabletop.
>>
>>54379280
>he thinks FW will change anything

>>54379413
He didn't say it was balanced. He said it was MORE balanced. Read nigga.
>>
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should I paint random bright colors on bits of armor on my EC traitors?
>>
>>54379454

I'm half expecting the FW staff to give up on 7.5e and learn 8e for a year.
>>
>>54379726
But you'll have to explain it.
>>
>>54379746
well the traitor EC really like bright colors and started adding little pretty things to themselves. I already added flayed skin and some heads.
>>
>>54379828
Sure, why not.
>>
>>54379726
I've always though EC should look like a blacklight concert.
>>
>>54379331
>MkI Rogue Armor
>MkII Citadel Armor
>MkIII Grim Armor
>MkIII.V Dark Armor
>MkIV [REDACTED] Armor
>MkV Mech Armor
>MkVI Narrative Forged Armor
>MkVII Unbound Armor
>MkVIII Phoenix Battlesuit
>MkIX Expanded Vehicle Battlesuit
>>
>>54372933

>A primarch being killed by completely undescribed forces is the same as explicitly being outmaneuvered and almost killed by a regular marine
>>
>>54379131
>I'm minded of Brothers of the Snake, which generated some rage about how 10 marines killed a thousand deldar, or how the couple hundred guys at the end or whatever wrecked an entire waaagh. Well, at the level of 'realistic' or campaign literature, they are correct, that's complete bullshit. But those people were missing - or refusing to acknowledge - those sections being heroic literature in style, and the marines being expys of the Spartans.

I've never that book but I'd be annoyed by it to. I don't care what sort of allegory author wanted to evoke but you lose creative freedom when you are working in a universe with pre-established rules. He can write about generic star warriors defeating space elves all day but if he wants to write a Warhammer novel he should at least attempt to respect the setting. The story could have been framed as a retelling by an unreliable narrator or something to that effect.
>>
>>54378677
Sadly, the EC never got as much attention as the legions featured in later books. Not much in the way of historical markings.
>>
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>>54377939
Daily reminder XIII >>> III.
>>
>>54379202
How long have you been playing 40k? If you only just started 40k, 30k mostly uses the previous edition of the 40k rules, with a few things taken from the edition before that. Compared to 8th edition 40k (which just came out last month), it's a big difference.

Only Troops can score by holding objectives. Vehicles have very different rules; they're easier to destroy in one shot but it takes a higher-strength weapon to do it. Most vehicles are weaker if hit on the sides or rear. There aren't modifiers to infantry armor saves; you get to roll to save or you don't, which makes 3+ armor stronger. Cover doesn't affect the to-hit roll but gives you a save that you take if it's better than your normal save. There are a lot of Universal Special Rules that you'll look up a lot until you finally memorize them (kinda like 40k's And They Shall Know No Fear, except the contents of the rule isn't spelled out in the unit entry).

It means you need to pick your force with a stronger paper-scissors-rock element: you need weapons that are good against Land Raiders, and weapons meant for downing flyers, etc. Less generalization.

It's likely to switch to 8th eventually, but even then it will have some differences.
>>
>>54381769
>but if he wants to write a Warhammer novel he should at least attempt to respect the setting.
It's funny because it's an Abnett book.

Unfortunately Gordon Rennie remains the only BL lawyer that managed to write the Dark Eldar well. And to think, he also made an Avatar cool.
>>
>>54382416
>Gordon Rennie remains the only BL lawyer that managed to write the Dark Eldar well
You mean Daemonifuge where wyches were killed by mary sue sororitas whore who impersonated eldar?
>>
>>54382416
I didn't like Shadow Point nearly as much as Execution Hour, but you're right that he got the Dark Eldar and Avatar right.
>>
>>54382699
It's a graphic novel. Let it be.
>>
>>54382737
Andy Chambers is best author who writes Eldar.
>>
>>54382746
Subjective opinion.

But at least you didn't say Goto
>>
>>54377294
They can't keep up with writing rules for 40k, 30k, AoS and specialist games simultaneously without giving us delays for years and/or shitty rush jobs, and you want them to make their own ruleset? Can you imagine the disaster on all fronts?
>>
>>54377294
I wish they would release 7.5 already. I want to be mad about its specifics, not just speculations :^)
>>
>>54383683
I think you will be disappointed, people seem to be getting ready to bulk buy melta bombs again when in reality it will be the 7th ed rule book with a red cover and fancy FW pages. Nothing will change.
>>
>>54382746
Nah that's gav thorpe
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>>54383927
Oh yeah, that was my idea of the 7.5 anyway. A literal copy of 7E with stuff added on top of it.
Also, can someone make a new edition?
>>
>>54365085
>Can you think of another story where any librarians are depicted as being that powerful?

In the Salamander books a Librarian goes super saiyan and cuts a traitor ship in half and then fights a daemon kaiju.

They also do pretty crazy shit in in the Mephiston book.
>>
New thread, everyone in. Just read the Tempest Galleries fluff. Damn those automata are cool.

>>54384691
>>54384691
>>54384691

Phonepost Bread, hope it's decent.
>>
>>54377040
You don't want the unlucky in your army, son.
>>
>>54378874
>He fights for mankind's future.

That's Guilliman though. He's the one who actually tries to improve things for humanity rather than just killing shit he doesn't like the look of.




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