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Warmasters Triumvirate: The Musical edition
Warmasters Triumvirate is an attempt at creating yet another 40k AU. The Primarchs have changed, and instead of appointing a single Warmaster upon returning to Terra, the Emperor is critically wounded on Ullanor. In order to make sure the Great Crusade continues, the Warmasters' Triumvirate is put in place. Tensions start running high and this eventually culminates in a civil war between Loyalists, Chaos Traitors and Separatists...

Docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14hqd6RLLgvLdYCIoLCHhQkidgXIsKUzrugyWu6pthEM

Chapter Constructor: https://bitbucket.org/chaptergenerator/chaptergenerator/downloads/

Previous Thread: >>54280118

ToDo:
>Finish the Timeline (again)
>Make non-astartes factions interesting
>Flesh out the Traitor's treason (again
>>
>>54376470
So what happens with the Rangda in this universe?
>>
>>54376508
They die.

Except a bunch of psykers blow up this time and a Primarch becomes edgy
>>
>>54376470
I have a question. Given that there's three factions, what is the situation like after the Heresy? Is there a Separatist Imperium that is opposed to the Regular one, like a North and South Korea situation? Is there a bunch of separatist states the Imperium can't squish? Does Chaos still hold on to territory around the eye or are they all inside the Eye?
>>
>>54376609
>Is there a Separatist Imperium that is opposed to the Regular one, like a North and South Korea situation?
Yes, and the Seps are North Korea.
>Is there a bunch of separatist states the Imperium can't squish?
Yes? I think?

There's more decentralization in the Seperium right?
>>
>>54376609
There's a separatist Imperium that takes up most of Ultima Segmentum, and as far as I know the chaos legions have the same territory they have in the OU.
>>54376748
This is correct.
>>
>>54369047
This was a great read, exactly how I'd imagine the 2 interacting. If not for the issue of Psykers they could easily have been the best of friends.
Lambach can't understand Asur's attitude towards the subject and vice versa.
>>
>>54376609
Basically the Seps try to stick close to the Imperial truth before the Emperor bites it, though something gets muddled with the laws regarding the boundaries of Technology, while the Loyalists become the religious ban wagon they are in 40k, so by the time the ruinstorm abates there is no way for the 2 factions to ever consolidate.
>>
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>>54377416
>Basically the Seps try to stick close to the Imperial truth
To varying degrees.
>>
>>54376470

Curious newfag here, do you have a wiki or timeline I could look at?
>>
>>54378197
The main place everything is centralized is the Spreadsheet at the moment, there should be a WIP timeline under the "Thread Links" tab
>>
>>54378197
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17-kTDZecaXjHdWpWdeCtu2npjveL-5ghEmRrTky0S2Y/edit

This is what we have cemented so far, we are currently ironing out the details for the chaos incursion at the moment.
>>
>>54376470
>Make non-astartes factions interesting
oh lordy I can feel my Kroot back-rub-boner coming on
What would you guys think of a Kroot polity of some sort
>>
>>54379180
I'm greenlighting this.
>>
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>>54376470
>Make non-astartes factions interesting
But I have to make my Astartes faction interesting first.
>>
>>54379180
>kroot
>having large populations outside their Warspheres
>holding territory ever
>giving up their nomadic culture

nnnnnnah.
>>
>>54379809
It was likely going to be a nomadic pseudo-empire, if that makes sense
>>
>>54380011
Like a Khanate?
>>
>>54376470
>Nitpicking time

>No subject
>"Previous thread" links to the temporary archive instead of the suptg or Warosu archive
>Sarco
>>
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>>54380362
>expecting me to know what I'm doing
>>
>>54380394
It's okay Sarco, I don't know what I'm doing either.
>>
>>54380180
effectively
>>
>>54376470
>>54380362
Old thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/54280118/

You didn't even number it properly. For shame.

>>54376609
>>54376748
>>54377416
>>54378038
The uniting factor among the Seps is their belief that Astartes (and Magos, I suppose) are inherently superior to regular men. Degrees may vary, but they are opposed to Malcador's pro-Mortal policies, like handing power over to the High Lord of Terra.

They stick closer to the Imperial Truth, since they do not consider the Emperor a God, but that is not the reason for their secession.
>>
>>54377345
Thank you very much! I am glad you enjoyed it and that I was able to capture your vision of Lambach.

Now I have an inspiration to write their first meeting after both falling to Chaos...
>>
>>54382933
Looking forward to it. Maybe I should write some of Lambachs first meetings.
>>
>>54383819
I already did the one between Raj and Lambach, so no need to do that one.
>>
>>54384618
Yeah I remember, that's where they became good mates. Linares has done his first meeting with Lambach too. He seems to get used a lot for first encounters haha.
I think an important one for Lambach would be meeting Gyahdred. Not sure exactly how Xun wants to do it.
>>
bump
>>
>>54385298
Hmm. I'm open. It might be worth it to have them meet before the conflagration and have things go one way before they meet again and the dynamic shifts.
>>
>Stan "Smiter" Mord

A legend inside the Legion, Mord is a scout of the 134th Company, known for his subtleness and stealth. He carries a Stalker Bolter which fires tailor-made ammunition. Mord is known for being probably the best shooter in the Legion, and that, given its main focus on melee fighting, seems out of place even for Mord himself.

He carries out special missions, picking off singular targets and eliminating important threats from afar.

He usually rides a red bike, stolen from an ork boy during one mission. The Techmarines take care of it and make sure it performs well.

On the downside, his social skills aren't as good as the Blades like, and is mostly seen sitting alone at a corner, readying ammunition and weapons.
>>
Bump
>>
>Marcos Furis

The Chief Apothecary, leader of the Legion's Apothecarion and the Master of the Legion's Gene-Seed. His was the work of fixing the most deficent parts of the Gene-Seed, and he succeeded, preparing the ground for the next Chiefs to come.

He scalated throught the ranks of the Apothecarion rather slowly, developing his medical skills with time, and eventually, getting interested in the miracle that created the Astartes themselves. He started to work with different kinds of bio-engineering to create new organs, with varying results. (Creating one of the Primaris' organs?)

The most important part of his career started with the Emperor's visit to Kadir, when he ultimated the entire Legion. Nearly all the Apothecarii started to work on the matter, and Marcos stood out from the rest because of his previous works with bio-engineering. Most of the steps in the right direction were because of his insatiable hunger for gene-seed works, and eventually, he was given control over the entire procedure.

When the Emperor came back to Kadir to see the new Gene-Seed, he was surprised, proud, and kind of jealous. He demanded to know who was in charge, and Linares pointed at Marcos. He was awarded a medal, and eventually, promoted to Chief Apotecary.

His battle days were short and dull. He saw service in only 3 campaings and excelled in none. Time dictated that his very turf, was the Legion's Laboratories.
>>
>Visiting a dear friend

>tok tok
-Who's there?
+Me
-For the Emperor's Sake! Brother!

And both Primarchs hugged each other. The Lord of Ale came to visit his Brother, the so-called The Mountain.

+You shall be called The Ball from now on, Pacha! Damn it, how much have you been eating lately?
-You smell to beer, Brother. And as you know, Father likes to be a dick sometimes, get ready.
+Same, Brother. What have you been doing? Cooking, as usual?
-Not exactly. As you well know, duty called a year ago, and I have been battling some xenos...Eldar were called? Anyway, I have been busy. And now, I'm much more proud of my Legion than before, they performed not as expected, but much better! We were sent to deal with small-scale raids, not with a full army! And yet, we won.
+Olé! My Legion has been fighting continuously this whole year. I still don't know why I'm here, I should be warmongering!
>>
>>54379180
>>54380011
I'm behind this. The Kroot get far too little attention in my opinion, in both OU and AUs
>>
>>54393869
Linares wore his usual white robe for off-duty affairs, a pair of leather belts, one big, for carrying the Silver Slayer, and a smaller one, to tighten the robe. The Brothers came inside Pacha's chamber in the Imperial Palace, and got comfortable. Linares took off the belt carrying the Slayer and left it in a chair nearby. Pacha, wearing trousers and a shirt, quickly moved in the chamber, taking things from one place to another with no apparent reason for Linares. He noticed the cooking garments hanging in a hanger, and some ingredients inside a box.

+Father forbade you to cook in your chamber, right?
-Yes, and now I have to go to the Palace's kitchens, and are full of servitors and useless cooks... You can't brew in your room neither, right?
+Right. But I have a beautiful battleship in orbit, with 3 breweries. I won't run out of beverage.
-Damn, Lin. Damn.

Pacha took some snacks and passed them to Linares, who passed some beer he had there to him. Pacha didn't liked Linares' special brew, a malt/wheat beer with some lemon juice added after the main brewing process. Instead, he preferred the brew with corn and some wheat. It was strangely tasty.

While both men were friendly chatting and laughing, a third Primarch appeared.

-Hey! Nice to meet you at last! It has been a while, huh?
+Truly, Marduk. Why so long?
~I have been travelling and looking for some rare scripts, talking about something closely related to Dagon's Leviathan, and they have raised my interest.
+Nice, you are always after some new books to get, huh? Wonder what kind of joke will make Father about that.
~Hope not a fat one.

The three men continued the chatting, now more formal than a minute or two before.

The eventual Regicide game started, and Linares was quickly beaten by Marduk, who proceeded to play against Pacha. He lasted longer. Way longer.

Linares left before that match finished. He walked down the hallway and throught inmense rooms, built like cathedrals in Kadir.
>>
>>54393869
>>54394259
This can become some kind of collaborative writing. Someone, take the story and continue it! Not necessarily in the Linares Wandering part.
>>
I guess Tuesday night isn't a great time for this.
>>
>>54395915
MWO Civil War update hit. No time for writing, only boats.
>>
>>54393869
>>54394259
Never knew Primarchs were so extremely informal. Are they wearing Hawaiian shorts and flip-flops while snacking? Time to go work on the old broken-down Trans Am that's been sitting in the yard on blocks for six years? Gonna relax on the couch and catch a Blood Bowl game in the afternoon, lol?
>>
>>54396341
Didn't you know Curze liked to go to the waterpark on weekends?
>>
>>54396421
I have come to this thread to argue, with you in particular.


There is no reason Astartes can't work with or cooperate happily with Xenos
>>
>>54396474
They are literally designed to kill aliens. The Emperor of mankind hardwired a hatred for xenos into their brains. Now, I'm not sure if this extends to the primarchs or whether their love for their primarch would override their hatred for xenos, so there's a bit of a gray area to work with.
>>
>>54396474
Except for virtually 100% of all canon lore.

Quite trying to be the Knights Inductor. There's a million other homebrews that are too cool to respect canon themes if you really need such things.
>>
>>54387968
I think Lambach should come investigate the Elver curse with Gyahdred pretty soon after his legion is back in the fight, he spends some time there, Gyahdred gives him Venus Gospel and the 2 become bros. Then later after the EXPLOSION Lambach would again offer council?
>>
>>54396747
Added it to the timeline if you want to change anything?
>>
>>54396519
>>54396541
>What are the Deathwatch Novels
>What is Gulliman literally being resurrected by an Eldar (the relationship isn't 100% trustworthy, but Yvraine is an Eldar Wytch, so this is to be expected)
>What is the 12th Black Crusade
>What is Trayzn swooping in at the last second to try and save Cadia
>What is the Inner Circle and the Watchers in the Dark
>What is the Alpha Legion colluding with the Cabal
>What is Tau: Fire Warrior

To name a few notable and primary canon sources of Astartes not being primaly driven to purge xenos, and working with them effectively.

The fact of the matter is that Xenos tolerance is based on chapter dependant indoctrination and culture. A more reasonable Astartes group would have less stringent indoctrination, whereas Valdor Doomsingers would have a kill on sight attitude.

And that indoctrination does not extend to Primarchs, thus allowing for altering of the indoctrination to allow for clarity of thought when it comes to Xenos.

I'm just saying that the Sepies shouldn't rule it out
>>
>>54397039
Also DoW III.
>>
>>54397039
"More reasonable Astartes".

Now where have we all heard that before...
>>
>>54397131
I didn't play it, was it not shit?

Point is, the Sepies fall into three categories that I've seen so far

>Purestrain Loyalists, "Daddy's Boys"
Loyalist from most perspectives, but refuse to follow the leadership of fallible humans. Cunty though it is, and against the spirit of some of the Emperor's beliefs, of all the traitors, these guys did the least wrong.

>Progressives, "Cawlite Hereitcs"
These dudes just don't like being told what not to do, pure and simple. The Imperium is well and good, and the Emperor is whatever, but they don't have a leash now and are going to enjoy that liberty the absolute maximum, freed from dogma and restriction.

>Faithless Traitors, "Chaosless Daddy Issues"
These are legit traitors, in the sense that they hate the Emperor, the Imperium, and everything it all stands for. The only difference between them and Chaos Traitors is faith, pure and simple.


In my ideal world, closer to 40k the three Sepie sub-factions would split so we can have legit Balkan wars
>>
>>54397258
Where indeed, anonymous shitposter?
>>
To be clear, this whole "Astartes+Xenos" thing is soley an idea for Sepratists, who are filthy traitors by and large.
>>
>>54397039
Also that one time that the Black Templars accepted the Xenos that worshiped the Emperor.

>>54397290
More or less. Tibetomatic just wanted better administrators. Of course, he also thought everyone should be all cyborgy.
I'm down for internecine strife.

>>54396747
Sounds good to me. Set the initial Elver problem between 2nd and 3rd Rangda, I think.

>>54397360
It makes sense to me. There are a few things they're more "reasonable" about. Theres a whole lot more ways they're nuts.
>>
>>54397303
One of the most hated homebrews on /tg/, perhaps?

But sure, get all defensive and so on. Make the same retarded mistake everyone else does. Ignore the criticism which has proven true in a host of other such projects, written by anons more learned than myself.

Don't mind me. Have your snowflakes with a side of xeno-tech and Eldar waifus. GLHF.
>>
>>54397708
Who are you even talking about?
>>
>>54397776
Wow, you must be new here to not know of the Knights Inductor, lol.
>>
>>54397708
My dudes are loyalist Folk Metal Skalds, this even my dog nor my fight. But stay triggered amigo

>>54397670
Did you hear the Anthem for your dudes? Your legion was the second hardest, I swear to God
>>
>>54376470
The last OU had the Behemoth Guard. This one has the Leviathan Host. What will the next one have? The Ziz Warriors?

Or is that the Black Augurs, given their apparent bird themes?
>>
So, for the Seps reveal, what we have?

And we still have to settle down how the chaos reveals. They attack Terra by surprise? Or they are turncoating in our Istvaan campaing?
>>
>>54398553
It was perfect.
>>
>>54401133
Here's an idea for chaos. After the failure of the peace accords the planet they were supposed to be on becomes a war zone, the whole thing caught in a bloody planet wide stalemate. This goes on until a force from the Chaos legions arrives and turns the campaign against the Seps. The second the Seps are pushed off the traitors turn on their brothers and go full Istavaan
>>
>>54402307
I was thinking something similar.
Have Marduk and Elsu seemingly side with the Loyalists too fight off the Seps.
Then when Je'She trusts that Marduk is a bro have them make a surprise attack on Terra.
Another question is should we do an istvaan 3 type event for the chaos faction to purge those still Loyal?
>>
>>54402307
>>54402619
Narratively, it's best to have the Traitors reveal themselves on the neutral planet. Valorn's suggestion works quite well.

Having the Traitors go straight for Terra would be the smart thing to do, but it'd give the traitors such an advantage that the loyalists need a total asspull to survive.

This will also mean we need to tone down the number of Primarchs at the neutral meeting. If almost all 21 are there, it's gonna be a really short Brotherwar.
>>
>>54403498
Not sure how well it would work, but I could definitely see some of the Seps stalling Chaos. I'd been thinking that the battle of Grethor with the Chosen is shortly before the siege and effectively stalls the Chosen for a while. It might be that since the Seps are ultimately loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium, they might buy time for the Terran faction after they see what Chaos has become. All this fighting happens off screen for the Terrans and since the basic sep battle plan is to stall for a bit and then pull East, the Terrans don't really appreciate it and it gives the Seps one mroe thing to be pissed about.
>>
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Juvan Verkovic, first Captain of the Iron Guard, Decemvir Primus

Initially a member of the twelfth Division's support cadres, Verkovic's ascension through the ranks would show him as a bloody-handed ruler. On several occasions, he would order a hive razed in example to an unyielding population. Yet unlike several commanders in the Legion, he gave little ceremony to these displays of power, seeing it as punishment that would have no place in a perfect Imperium. This sorrowful character gave him the favour of the Primarch, who preferred to be surrounded by such men than bloodthirsty warlords.
>>
>>54403498
One of the earlier suggestions had three primarchs from the Loyalists and three from the Separatists attend the accords. Do you reckon that would work better?
>>
>>54404906
I think it would. I think it was Je'She, Raj and Pacha, against Frederick, Rokuten and Piter?
>>
>>54405019
Meanwhile Lambach and Gyahdread duke it out at Grenthor.
>>
>>54405183
>>54405019
What would Kincaid be doing at this time?
>>
>>54405222
His Trips thing. Singing/composing, battling somewhere...

Because at this time, do Loyalists see an attack on Terra inminent?
>>
What do you say to Linares being on Terra during the peacetalk? Like if he sensed danger and quickly deployed there, fortifying the planet and the Solar System.
>>
>>54405471
Well at this time he's the Burned Prophet, spreading the Good Word
>>
Bamp
>>
Taskmaster Nausis, master of recruits of the Iron Guard

One of the earliest Derzelans inducted in the Legion, and a fanatic follower of Dyestes in his homeworld's conquests, Nausis was devoted to enforcing his Primarch's restructuration of the Legion. This devotion and an inspiring presence earned him a place in the Opsequarion, tempering his Terran elders' individualist streaks and helping forge his new legion's culture.

When wounds suffered in the Salucian Xenocide removed him from the frontline, he was assigned on Derzelas on training duties. Neophytes trained under Nausis show the same drive for order as the taskmaster, resulting in efficient legionnaires and strong-willed commanders.
>>
>>54405539
Raj fortifies Terra as soon as he returns to Emperor post-internment. Being a diplomatic guy, he'd be a perfect candidate to go to the meeting with the Seps. If he'd leave anyone in charge of the defense, it'd be Linares.

>>54405695
I think Kincaid should get involved after the Assassination.
>>
>>54408812
Fine them.

>Brother, you could have warned me that your defensed don't include breweries. Good thing I brought mine.
>>
>Looking up the Original OP
Good times those...so many fine Legions...
>>
>>54409118
>"Linares, how do you feel about kilometre tall speakers?"
>"No, how do you REALLY feel?"

And then there was metal

>>54408812
How do you think he would? I'm still behind as far as timeline is concerned
>>
>>54410255
>KILOMETRE-HIGH TURBO SPEAKERS OF DOOM
The main Terran Defense System

Maybe he could play some Kiss or Metallica anthem for Malc.

Jokes aside, pushing the loyalists against the seps?
>>
>>54410607
>Jokes aside

I'm serious.
>>
>>54411412
That was for me.

Anyway, what do you think Kincaid would do?
>>
>>54411637
No clue.

With the Emperor and Malcador out of the picture, his Legions out there running themselves, Kincaid is basically left to scheme and preach unmolested
>>
Some Doomsinger related prompts

>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?

>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
>How do they react to his full blown faith?

>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
>>
>>54414073
>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
The Golden Mountains think of Kincaid as rather arrogant and vain unlike their more down-to-earth primarch, although they appreciate the Doomsingers' zeal in battle, making them reliable battle-brothers.

>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
"Alright, he's on fire now, but at least he's gotten better."
>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
What
>How do they react to his full blown faith?
WHAT.
>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
The Golden Mountains try to appreciate it, but they prefer the simpler festival musics of many worlds.
>>
>Nikea speech
Pacha had left armor and shield on his flagship, wearing only clothes with his Legion's colors and Resolve tied to his belt. The Earthquake first nodded at all those that had spoken before, whether in favor or against the topic at hand. He knew he had to try and convince everyone: "Brothers, Father, I am nearly not as skilled a speaker as any of you, but I should say this: Psyker abilities are a tool, one innate to many of us gathered here. Even a small flame can lead to an inferno of catastrophic proportions if handled incorrectly. A wrongly used grenade can kill its user and his allies. We even carry weapons as terrible as the ones needed to perform Exterminatus with us, that could cause massive losses if an accident or improper use was to happen. Yet, are we to give our mental abilities any different treatment? I believe not, as with the proper training, most accidents should be avoided safely. I believe, we should make sure those in our armies that have been born with such a tool in their hands to be taught how to properly use it. Thanks for listening to these simple words of mine."
The Primarch then bowed and returned to his seat.
>>
>>54414073
>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
Kincaid is a pretty decent guy, he enjoys the simpler pleasures of life which is something Lambach can get behind.

>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
"Ohh lordy Imma git blamed fo' dis"

>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
Lambach would be pretty Chaos by this point, so he realizes how foolish believing the Emperor a god would actually be.

>How do they react to his full blown faith?
"You've always been naive Kincaid, let me show you the power of the true gods..."

>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
It would probably be played in the streets of Miletus when ever there is a parade or festival or something in honor of the Chapter.
>>
>>54414073
>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
Their relationship is, for the most part, all-business. The two have very different views, but see the other as necessary for the fledgling Imperium.
>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
They kind of look at the XVth and go "awh fuck, I can't believe you've done this". There's some tension between the VIth and XVth, who've always been good buddies, but they commend Gyahdred on his clinical approach to the incident.
>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
"Ah boy here we go"
>How do they react to his full blown faith?
There's still a lot of wounds from the betrayal of Marius von Kreimann and the XIth Grand Batallion, who were heavy closet practitioners of the Old Markchian Faiths, and also from the betrayals of the Traitor Legions, so they see religion as being an inherently bad thing.
>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
They are greatful that another Legion (outside the Dusk Phantoms) extended them such a courtesy. They're often the outsider Legion, so getting any sort of recognition from another is often surprising.
>>
Bump
>>
>>54415527
So Pacha, I like it.

>>54414073
>Chambers
They are pretty much like the Legion's Tercios. Each has its unique characteristics, and even a very own musical style. What happened post-Brotherwar should have not happened, as a Legion dividing so hard in three factions is never desirable.

>Immolation
Allahu Akbar
Poor guy, he suffered a terrible accident. But still, isn't reason enough to ban ALL psykers

>Slow Radicalization
Dude, nope. Just nope, stop it.

>Full blown faith
DUDE. I told you to stop, and yet you didn't listened. Now, look at the mess you've done!

>Anthem
The Blades like it, and even if they didn't like it, they would gladly take it. A gift is a gift, after all.
>>
>>54414073
>>
>>54414073
>>What does your legion think of Kincaid and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
Raj truly regards Kinnévail as a younger brother. One that still has a lot to learn before he'll understand his place in the galaxy and the Imperium. Raj has a deep appreciation for Kinnévail's art, but he does think of him as too impulsive and bombastic.
The Titan Marchers like the Doomsingers. Their sentiments towards them are pretty much the same as their gene-sire.

>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
A complete disaster. Kincaid's immolation would be one of the events that leads to Raj and the Marchers' opinions on psykers being neutral at best.

>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
With great unease. This would come at a time where the Imperium cannot take much more infighting, so they would not take a stance against it, but it would deeply worry them.

>How do they react to his full blown faith?
By the time the Ecclesiarchy rears its head, Raj is dead and the Marchers are still trying to find their place under the command of Taarush Amin. It would still bother them, but they would see its necessity in keeping the Imperium together, and since Raj died for the Imperium, they will do anything they need to to make sure it survives.

>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
Deep appreciation. The Marchers and their gene-sire love the fine arts, even if not many of them have an aptitude for it. They feel it fits them nicely.
>>
>>54414073
>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
Good in a fight. Not much else.
>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
See, this is why we're justified in performing psyker experiments on Zharr-Hadad.
>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
This has the potential to take power away from Mot and is therefore bad.
>How do they react to his full blown faith?
This is kinda weird, bro. I know I'm not exactly the most upstanding primary but isn't militants atheism kind of one of the Emperor's core beliefs?
>How do your dudes react to their gifted anthem?
Mot probably takes it and doesn't give it another thought.
>>
>>54414073
I'll get to the opinion of the chambers later and the view on Kincaid himself is complex, but basically gets worse as time goes on.

>Conflagration
It was an unfortunate accident, but Kincaid acts as though he was the only one burned that day. He does not recognize his role in the events and regards our attempts to understand with superstitious fear.
>Slow Radicalization
It's as though he's trying to find the least healthy way to deal with any situation he comes across.
>Full Blown Faith
If it was a mortal child, it might be cute, but Kincaid ought to know better. Faith is a poison and an illusion.
>Gifted Anthem
At least he did his research. Proof that nobody is without an Omnissiah-Nature and can access it. It might be better for everyone if Kincaid retired from the public eye and focussed on his music. Perhaps, in time, he could find enlightenment, too.
>>
>>54414073
>Thoughts on Kincaid and the chambers
He loves life, and in his pursuit of celebrating it he is speeding so fast he cannot even perceive its quiet beauty. Life must be like a blur to him.
Why he crafted his chambers, we do not understand. They should be one family, but he draws lines between them and thus breaks them apart.

>Kincaid's immolation
His soul shone brightly and fiercely, and as he himself reached into the Otherworld, fuelling his soul's light, it was bound to burst from him. Such volatility was bound to damage him. We are only glad that he survived, and may use his wisdom and example to better others.

>Radicalisation
He's losing his way. His passions are turning to obsession. It will end in tears.

>Faith
We are... Surprised.

>Anthem
Wrong animal, but close enough we guess?
It's fucking amazing.
>>
Quick bump
>>
>>54414073
Marduk and the Leviathan Host. Eris at the end.

>What does your legion think of Kincaid, and the different chambers of the Doomsingers?
Fostering division and competition is good, but war and death is work to be understood, not something for songs and glory. It is holy work, and one must be taught the strength of conviction to do it, but one should seek to deal with it as quickly and decisively as possible. Kincaid must understand the difference between exalting the importance of something and indulging in it.

>What do your dudes think of Kincaid's immolation?
A holy remaking, no doubt, but Kincaid has drawn the wrong conclusions. Where he should have been humbled and realized the true power of the Warp, he runs from it like a child during a ritual slaughter. The power of the Warp, of the Abyss, is not something to turn one's back to especially one so potentially gifted. Those of us that bear the scars of blades and bolts have not turned our backs on those tools.
>How do your dudes react to his slow radicalization?
Marduk would be glad that he would finally have some to earnestly discuss matters of the metaphysical and that he finally takes his work in a matter more befitting it's scope, if only he wasn't so cowed and terrified. He teaches others to be the same way. If this kind of fear and mistrust of the reality of the universe spreads, it is one more doom to the empire's clearly failing ambition.
>How do they react to his full blown faith?
Eris laughs at the new Imperium. She laughs at how quickly they turn their backs on their former Truth. She laughs at their corpse Emperor who cannot save them. She laughs at Kincaid, so fearful of that which he doesn't understand that he destroys something he once worked so hard to build. She laughs because she knows the Leviathan will rise again and when the Imperium is about to be devoured, faith will not save them from her.
>>
We should write about Marduk's death
>>
>>54428774
I meant to write up a piece about it, but was hit with a serious writers block regarding prose stuff. So here's the spark notes, as I see it.

>Siege of Terra, a few days (weeks?) in. Things started good with Traitors making serious gains up to the gates of the palace, but stuff has stagnated.
>Chaos forces struggle to work together where as the Loyalists have great cohesion and well prepared defenses.
>Eventually the Traitors start to fight each other and just generally fuck around.
>Marduk realizes he's losing his chance to finish this mess, so he gets his guys together and the other traitor Primarchs to tell them his plan
>The Apophis (Marduk's Gloriana) begins to enter atmosphere as some traitors pull back and orbital forces start bugging out
>He fucking crashes the thing through the front gate of the Imperial palace like a battering ram and makes a bee line for the eternity gate
>Chaos forces pour in through the breach and Marduk with his honor guard get into a fight/chase with the Custodes
>End up breaching the eternity gate, but he dies on the steps to the throne
>Probably fighting Lin and another Primarch
>Traitor forces lose all their momentum pretty quickly and fall back; start of the scouring.

Sounds about right?
>>
>>54429728
Yup, seems fine

>He fucking crashes the thing
I kek'd here quite a bit
>>
>>54430992
With no survivors?
>>
>>54431052
On the walls, probably no. On board, maybe. There's the slightest of the possibilities
>>
>>54431052
who needs survivors when you annihilate half the battlefront in A DECISIVE BLOW
>>
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Who founds the Inquisition if Malc is dead?
>>
>>54434739
Well the answer seems simple to me: The Forge Lords.

Before you get up in arms, let me walk it through for you

>Anonymous Forge Lord cranks out the Vorpal Chains
>The most baller astartes swordsmen get these juicy fuckers
>"""""coincidentally"""""" most of these swordsmen are in Traitor/Separatist legions
>Once the Brotherwar breaks out, these dudes rush to the Imperium, forming a brotherhood of Astartes, Imperial Soldiers, and other mortals called the Emperor's Champions
>After the Brotherwar the Emperor's Champions dissolves to prevent becoming another powerbase that will break up the Imperium even more
>The Astartes decide to bequeath power to mortals because the that's what papa would have would have wanted
>The Mortals form into the !Inquisition and the Astartes into a sort of Grey Knights/Deathwatch heretic hitsquad

So, in a way, the Forge Lords
>>
>>54435939
If we need representatives from each Legion, I volunteer Kurtz Vallutzstrom, since I'm planning on making him the leader of the small Loyalist element from the XIth Grand Battalion
>>
>>54434739
>>54435939
I just assumed Malcador would still do it and begin plans as soon as he could after The Emperor goes down. Malcs is still around for a decent amount of time after that.
But The Forge Lords way works.
>>
>>54436752
I don't really see why they couldn't go hand in hand.
>>
>>54435939
I feel that I need to clarify that the vast majority of the Emperor's Champions are the loyalists from traitor factions, be they Traitor Forgeworlds, separatist Imperial Regiments, renegade chapters, random serfs that didn't fancy being made into ethically repugnant sentient cocaine, whatever.

That's why they are the Emperor's Champions, the most loyal of them all, to maintain purity of spirit and clarity of purpose amongst treason and heresy.

>>54436009
Awesome! Sounds good

>>54436752
I would imagine it would be both. Malcador, foreseeing the Brotherwar and his own death, would create a continuously updated Black Box that would leave behind the keys to the kingdom basically. Assassin Clades, the Astartes on Titan, what is known about Chaos, the Webway. All of it. Of course it would be super incripted and hurried under mountains of riddle and clue, but who ever found it would figure it out eventually as long as they weren't tainted by chaos (wards or whatever)

Maybe the Chainbearers could find this black box and start piecing together the puzzle, then assemble the baddest motherfuckers to ever live.

Maybe they get the idea of am Inquisition and disbanding the order from Malcador
>>
Query: why were the Vorpal Blades forged? Simply because it was possible? Or was there a purpose for the unique weapons?
>>
If we are volunteering people, my Paladin is going in.
>>
>>54436911
Would all these blades look the same or would they have been crafted with the specific original user in mind? For example, 1 is a sword another an axe or a glaive?
>>
>>54440099
As Lathe Blades, they are all unique, even more so as they are made in the form of Chain Weapons: The process to make one Vorpal Blade would take years even if they were made in controlled environment where forging Lathe Steel is possible 24/7. It would only make sense each blade is a work of art, an iteration of warfare turned into steel, and as such, made in different shapes. Whether they were made for specific people or some certain purpose remains to be decided.
>>
>>54428774
>>54429728
I remember you mentioning him crashing the ship before, but I'm trying to figure out how that would coincide with Raj's death.

Raj defends the Eternity Gate with the Apocalyptican, as well as a significant detachment of Titan Marchers. Deshain fights his way through, gets into the Titan and kills Raj. After that the Apocalyptican quickly goes boom, causing major damage and killing thousands, as well as greatly damaging the Eternity Gate.

So Marduk decides to ram it with his ship after that?
>>
>>54440735
I'd say the hole made in the gate by the titan would be like a perfect Target for Marduk to aim his ship at.
Swish, nothing but net, he's on fire! Ect.
>>
>>54440099
The Five Chains are every one of them unique, each unique in form and subtly different in function. Each seemingly mastercrafted to the specifications ideal for their destined bearers. How such specifications were obtained and implemented so skillfully, none can be certain.

>>54439200
Yes.
>>
>Sucessor Chapters of the Silver Blades

The Legion was divided in a number of smaller Chapters, most with their own character and customs, but retaining the Legion's characteristics and feeling. Some of the most known successor Chapter are the Silver Blades themselves, the Ale Crusaders, the Beer Drinkers, and the Swordmen.

The Chapter's Recruits swore loyalty to the Chapter, the Legion, and both the Emperor and the Imperium. It is well known that the Legion would reunite once again, if a threat big enough was to be fought.

The cooperation between the successor chapters is nearly the same as when they were united under the Legion's banner. They tend to mix in campaings, and to send and receive Comanies from other Chapters if needed. For these reasons, they have been accused of Legion Building several times, but all the investigations concluded that the accusations weren't true, they just collaborated a lot between them
>>
>>54442071
Makes sense, though the names might need some work. Mentions to beer and the like are still kinda weird in 40k.
>>
>>54442071
>The Ale Crusaders
These are pretty simmilar to the Black Templars, constantly crusading and overnumbered respect to the standard Chapter. They wear black armor with silver trims, lots of chains and gothic motifs, and usually forget that ranged weapons exist. They are convinced that the Imperium can be saved, and thus, they never rest in their endless crusades against the enemies of mankind.
>>
>>54442907
Do they focus mainly on Xenos, Seps or Chaos?
>>
>>54442112
I'm not very good with names, tho

>>54443061
Both chaos and seps, mainly. But at the end of the day, everything that crosses their path.

>The Beer Drinkers
The love for some good ol' beer of the Legion taken to the extreme. The soldiers must drink a whole jar of the strongest ale the Chapter has, and then, forcefed more ale during a feast, were eating is secondary. Their combat efficiency is usually deficient, as they drink huge amounts of different beverages right before battle. This has made them worthy of reduced recruitment rights, and less Mechanicum support.
>>
>>54376470
I'm bummed I missed out on this at the start. Gotta keep eyes open for another AU. I had an idea for one but not sure starting one in the middle of another one is smart.
>>
>>54443143
>The Swordmen
This Chapter has dropped its whole ranged armory in favor of melee weapons of diverse kinds. They have access to new types of weapons, and they use them with great efficiency. They have dropped the most of their alcohol consumption, too, reducing it to a single jar of beer at dinner.

All of them bad ideas, sorry
>>
>>54443152
We're not that deep in bro. Hop in on the discord and introduce yourself
>>
>>54443343
That would work better if there was a discord link in OP. :P
>>
>>54443370
It's in the doc under thread links.
>>
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>Ale Crusader, Silver Details
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>>54444651
>Ale Crusader, Golden Details

Which one, /w3/?
>>
>>54444666
This one, but with a better name
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>>54444666
I agree, gold looks better
>>
>>54444651
>>54443143
>>54443191
>Literal "Beer drinkers"
>"Nah bruh im cutting back, just one JAR before bed you know?"
>ALE crusader

Are you twelve and still think that sneaking a Bud Light from your grandpa is cool? Seriously? This is some cringy shit, dude.
>>
>>54446043
This.

I mean come on man
>>
>>54446241
It's like Wolf Wolfing for the Wolf Gods of Wolftopia, except instead of a Wolf, it's a can of beer. Wooooooow. So cool. Much fratboy.
>>
Some effects of Kinnévail's Ecclesiarchy:

>Xenos can be inducted into the Imperium, but they need to relinquish their Xenotech to the Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus and live as second class citizens
>The AdMech is a little less conservative when it comes to weaponry, armor, and vehicles, but Magi Biologis tend to be ostracized and viewed as borderline heretical
>>
>>54447588
What is even the point of your whole Loyals Vs Seps thing if the Loyals start becoming just as too cool for school as the Seps?
>>
>>54447887
Because the Separatists are more socially conservative by and large than the "Loyalists.

The Imperium rapes the Imperial Truth, while the Separatists exalt it
>>
>>54448204
Uhhhhhhh, okay. Well, good luck with that then. Seems awfully ass-backwards and convoluted just so you can have your Eldar Marines and Guardsmen with Necron tech and shit.
>>
>>54448498
Makes sense to me. The technologically liberal and socially conservative Seps hate the technologically conservative but socially liberal Imps. It's a nice way to turn things around, because too often the Seperatist factions in these things are a rejection of EVERYTHING the Emperor had to say.
>>
>>54448540
In this context I assume 'socially liberal' means allowing regular mortal men to fulfill important positions?
>>
>>54448540
>technologically conservative Imps

>AdMech permitting more shit in the Imperium
>Inquisition gets all the Xenos tech from an influx of xenos who for some reason actually want to strip themselves of all power and live where they are hated

Did you actually read what >>54447588 said? That's not technologically conservative at all. You're pumping the =][= full of god knows what corrupting influences and you're letting the rank and file push the boundaries of tech-heresy.
>>
>>54448618
More meant allowing Xenos to live as second class citizens instead of just isolating/genociding them.

>>54448629
Compared to the Seps, that is conservative.
>>
>>54448669
So the Seps just go completely off the rails then?

This doesn't even seem like 40k anymore, lol. More like some transhumanist fantasy with a 40k skin crudely bolted on.
>>
>>54448629
>>54447588
I have never heard any one this before. In fact, the only thing I've ever talked about involved the Imperium becoming bad as it is by 40k in the OU sooner. Kinnévail leads the Imperium down a path of superstition and fear. Never, at any point, was there any talk of the Imperium using Xenotech.

The wars between the Seps and Loyalists are balanced between the Imperium's additional forces, like the Inquistion and Adepta Soriritas and the Sep's advancef (xeno-)tech.
>>
>>54448746
That was my understanding as well. This is all kind of surprising and I'm trying to make sense of it.
>>
>>54448746
Well you might want to talk to Evel Kneivel about that then, cause that's most definitely not what he was saying. Literally welcoming Xenos in to the Imperium.

And then stealing all their guns, because those xenos would definitely let that happen ever. Definitely.
>>
>>54448698
...how? Because they allow widespread Xenos sanctioning, rather than small scale?
>>
>>54448808
I mean, that is going against one of the central tenets of 40k, just to bring aliens in for shits and giggles.

People do that shit in every homebrew eventually. They just can't help themselves when they have to grab all the shiny toys at once, forgetting that their story only has meaning when not everything's handed to them.

No one can let xenophobes be xenophobes it seems. It's just too irresistible to say that their special guys are more enlightened. Even in a setting where true xenophobia, irrational, mindless xenophobia is one of its fundamental principles.
>>
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>>54448874
>central tenets of 40k

Pic related are the central tenants of 40k. So long as letting aliens and shit around furthers the narrative of how bleak and oppressive the government is, then it works.

That said, I largely agree and I kinda find this whole xenos thing in bad taste.

It's also worth noting that the Seps are at least as bad the canon Imperium if not worse, because they become an omnipresent Orwellian surveillance state.
>>
>>54448792
>>54448698
>>54448498
What a prick.

>>54448618
Definitely. The Loyalists adopt the parts of the Imperial Truth that say Astartes are tools of man, meant to wipe out opposition and defend Imperial interests. The Sepratists say fuck that.

>>54448629
>you're letting the rank and file push the boundaries of tech-heresy
No.

>>54448669
Yeah, Xenos become essentially a slave caste, worse than mutants. This really only applies to minor Xenos who can't risk to wage war with the Imperium, and for the purposes of Grimdark, become untouchables instead of genocided.

>>54448746
>>54448779
We talked it over a little more in the Discord, but Kinnévail's only goals as far as proselytizing is concerned is having the whole Galaxy consider Big E as God, to starve Chaos of worship by fighting faith with faith, ensure some sense of unity through en masse social brainwashing, and because he actually is religious.

As for Xenos, Kincaid sees the value of people constantly being reminded of who the enemy is, and how triumphant they are against it, by consuming them into a slave caste, both in the chattel and Greek/Roman sense.

Keep in mind that all of this is still 30k, and once the Primarchs fuck off and 40k rolls around, we may see dramatic change
>>
>>54448874
It's not really, you're missing the point.
>>
>the xenos argument
>>
>>54448991
>As for Xenos, Kincaid sees the value of people constantly being reminded of who the enemy is, and how triumphant they are against it, by consuming them into a slave caste, both in the chattel and Greek/Roman sense.
>ensure some sense of unity through en masse social brainwashing

Alright I approve, more or less, but it could do with some clearer descriptions of how this all goes down.
>>
>>54448991
>What a prick.

What a rebuttal.
>>
>>54448874
Xenos are made into shit shovelers, pencil sharpeners, and servitors sans cyberlobotomy. And that's in the Imperium where they get the option before they're wiped off the map. Mutants don't fare much better and Psykers are fucking put to the stake

What else do you want? It seems that your ideal AU is everything is the same except Primarchs
>>
>>54449048
>Rebuttal
>Butt
>Prick
it amused me because both are below the belt.
>>
>>54449024
Not all at once, but after Terra Kincaid begins to tone down the frothing at the mouth evangelism, and begins to realize that he needs to govern this monstrosity he's birthed.

At some point, Kincaid realizes there may have been a better way to do this, and is one of the reasons he follows Linares' trail into the warp
>>
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>>54449048
Man chill. You're the one who got his knickers in a twist and started slinging your shit around because of something you didn't even have fully explained. Fix your malfunction or go wank your self righteous, ineffectual vitriol somewhere before you give me goddamn conniptions.

Oh wait.
>>
>>54449097
Eyyyyyy, this guy. You seem pretty cool. Have fun with Xeno boy over there.

>>54449138
Such salt, lol.
>>
>>54449135
Well, so long as the Imperium and the Seps both end appropriately grimdark and inhospitable.
>>
>>54449138
>Homebrewers get salty when people challenge their ideas

Every time.
>>
>>54449153
Thanks, will have.
>>
>>54449177
The Seps seem like a bunch of pricks desu, but after Malcador gets assassinated, it seems like everyone turns into a prick
>>
>>54449217
Well yeah, that's the point. It's 40k. If everyone isn't a prick then you've defeated the setting. see >>54448940
>>
>>54449183
>free bumps

Nice

>>54449238
It also makes sense in the Faith/Science mirroring in how they work with Chaos

The Imperium throws waves of fanatics at the problem until it goes away, the Separatists try and be as surgical as they can, or drown it in advanced ordinance.
>>
>>54449346
Seems like your threads are pretty dead, so sure. Have all the bumps you want.
>>
>>54449402
Keep up the good work, amigo.
>>
>>54447588
Not a fan of the Loyalists not just purging Xenos on sight if I'm honest. Even the seps aren't big on them. I think it is only Piter who tolerates them.
>>
>>54449721
Me neither. Xenos are xenos. Maybe in 30k things are different, but this is Humanity Fuck Yeah, so exterminating them would be the usual thing for the Imperium
>>
>>54449721
>>54451032
I mean let me explain my reasons why.
Eldar for the most part have their own agenda and in this setting are tied heavily to Solomons back story, sure maybe a few would fall in with Imperials, but mostly on the rogue trader side of things.
Nids and Orks are pretty much out of the question.
Necrons too, have their own story arch which I don't think we should touch on they are better off as a menacing bad guy race.
Tau, or what remains of the race is heavily tied into Piter's communist space empire.
So that really only leaves us with Xenos we make up or those featured in the story line that are not really impactful enough to warrant adding. All we do is dilute what the Imperium is meant to be. Though there are a few Alien races like Jaikero and what not that get included in the Imperium, overall they are barely worth mentioning.
That's just my take on things please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>>54451364
I mean, there are plenty of minor xenos races other than that. 40k lore is chock full of them.
>>
>>54451976
Yeah I know, no way I'm bothered to list them all, I'm just saying that I don't think it is worth making a whole thing about Loyalists incorporating them and using their tech and what not when at the end of the day we want the Loyalists to end up as what they are in 40k. Personally I think it just adds a complication we have no intention of furthering so why bother?
>>
>>54452484
I don't think there should be a 'using their tech' because very few have tech of note anyway.

But the idea of them being a thrall caste is interesting.

Why, exactly, do you want loyalists to end up just as they are in 40k? Whats the point of the AU then?
>>
>>54452858
Even if they're not embracing xenos to their bosom they're still very different from the OU. Different numbers, different themes, different actions and decisions.

Pinning the concept of a "true AU" on using xenos in some capacity seems excessively reductionist. There is certainly a point to it without needing to include xenos slaves.
>>
>>54452858
The whole point to the Loyalists in this AU is that they end up the same as the OU, that was one of the very first things we agreed on. Seps were meant to have the deviations and unique things we introduce. That is the entire point of them being Separated from the Imperium. They don't agree with how it's run, each Primarch joins that cause for their own reasons, and that is the point to them. They are the unique faction that brings us our own unique side of things. If we have the Imperium become some kind of universal diverse culture than we may as well say some of the Chaos guys come back to the Imperium but they just kinda tolerate all the Daemons and shit.
The point is we are not trying to completely rewrite how the factions work. If a Sep Primarch decided he wanted to do this I'd be far more open to his idea, like Piter with the Tau. If the Doomsingers want Xenos slaves or whatever I'd say best bet is that a chapter or so of them abandon the Imperials and join up with Fredericks movement.
>>
>>54453109
Or a branch could go Chaos. Chaos ain't give a damn if your Daemon Engines are dragged into battle by mutilated xenos for Slannesh's amusement or whatever.
>>
>>54453225
Exactly.
>>
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>>54376470
I'm not sure what happened in this thread, but maybe if we're jumping the shark a little bit with xenos or whatever, this bit of fluff that I've been brainstorming for the past couple days won't be too outlandish.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lup2_jVhlLlBAyK1eaG067IZcRb_06OLRw3k5HppCMk/edit?usp=sharing

It's the other counterpart to the "Emil Falls to Chaos" story I wrote a while ago. Both stories share the same intro, Culexii boarding Emil's personal voidcraft.

Might be too much, might not be. IDK. Critique would be *very* much appreciated so I can better decide what's the right path for Emil to take.
>>
>trying to introduce Xenos into the Imperium
>inferring Einchurt and the Death's Heads wouldn't immediately go apeshit and wipe out said xenos and whomsoever thought it was a good idea to let them into the GLORIOUS HUMAN UBERMENSCH IMPERIUM
literally ???
>>
>>54455294
I mean as slaves, but whatever. It seems shitposters that don't even have a dog in this fight have tipped the scales of the battle. Good show, all around
>>
>>54455403
I guess I might as well throw in my two cents.

Mixing xenos and Imperials is something that people try all the time. Usually it comes off as very stilted. It rarely adds anything useful to the narrative and doesn't move the story along. That guy from earlier is an asshole, but I've seen such sentiments echoed often enough over the years I've spent on this Egyptian beekeeping deposit box to know there's a grain of truth there.

"Suffer not the Xeno to live." That's pretty fundamental to the setting as a whole.

Doing anything other than that is a big deal, I think. If it was the Chaos powers, I could roll with it no problem. No questions asked. If it was the Seps, I wouldn't be super happy about it (And the Steel Souls absolutely would not do so), but I'd pretty much let it slide. Loyalists though? The faction that's probably closest to OU methods of operation? That just *feels* strange.

And that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. I am opposed to Imperial Xenos, but I'm not going to burn down half a thread to try and make that happen.
>>
>>54455403
I'm not takeing the side of any of the trolls, I honestly didn't bother reading most of their posts, I'm simply telling you that in the narrative we have set up so far it doesn't make much sense, if you can get all the other Loyalists on board though I won't attempt to stop it, However I think the issue would be at best another split in the Loyalist faction.
>>
>>54376470
Bump because it's on page 9, come on guys.
>>
>>54456950
Given the convo, I think it's worth talking about Tibet o matic and co.
They're meant to be the Mechanicum founded on a different sort of esotericism. Just as batshit, but with different ways of being weird.
Gyahdred himself is brilliantly rational but makes the Lion look like the Fonz.
In the end he becomes the internet and decides that Leto II was right and tries to save the humanity by crashing the Imperium.
>>
On a completely different note, would Malcador ever reveal the existence of Chaos to the primarchs? If so perhaps he intends to do so at the peace summit, essentially going "there's a bigger threat to the galaxy than yer da being indisposed so stop fighting each other you fucking idiots".Which could put the traitors under threat cause this revelation might cause some clever people to realise what's going on with some of their allies.
>>
>>54459059
There are some who already know. He may uncover it for the rest, yes. During the peace talk makes sense
>>
PROMPT: Who is the OU equivalent of your Primarch, if any? How would they interact if they ever met?
>>
>>54459981
Probably Lemon Rush, for the CQC expert and love for different kinds of ale.

If they ever met, the convo would be probably friendly, with a lot of ale sharing and combat anecdotes.
>>
>>54449721
>>54451032
>>54452484
>>54452858
>>54452967
>>54453109
>>54455294
>>54455403
>>54455514
I agree with Lambach, Linares and Einchurt here. The Imperium hates Xenos and does not integrate them, or allow them to exist within their borders. The Emperor himself might have one day been ok with that, but the Imperium of Mankind is not.

The Separatists, or some of them anyway, could use xeno slaves as auxillary forces, the Sep Union is not as restricted. The Seps simply believe that mankind should have dominion over all. Enslaving a race would be fine for them.

>>54459981
I have described Raj as a less handsome Sanguinius before, so that's pretty much my answer. There's a bit of Vulkan in there too.
>>
>>54459981
Pretty sure Lambach is closest to Magnus but not as powerful in the psykic arts.
They would talk endlessly about everything.
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>>54459981
Probablyyyyyyy Vulcan, with a dash of Fulgrim perhaps.

They would be merry, make pretty stuff and chill with the civilians.
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>>54459981
Perturabo and Mortarion with a dash of Kurze
Pert, Morty, and Einchurt would probably discuss things like extermination tactics, WMDs, and how their brothers don't understand there is no morality in war. Einy might grate on Pert a bit for trying to convince him he should be greatful he gets the shit jobs
>>
>>54459981
I'd say Valorn is mostly Corvus with a dash of Fulgrim. He's a stealthy perfectionist after all.
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>>54462095
Is he? I gotta admit that out of all the legions, the Pale Hounds are still the biggest enigma to me.
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>>54462176
The idea is that half the legion are stealth experts and the other half are experts in blitzkrieg tactics. Valorn very much embodies the former rather than the latter, being something of a sniper.
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>>54462210
They perform their role pf stealthy fuckers well, as we don't know about them
>>
>>54462210
>>54462367
Ah, right. I honestly admit that that's news to me. The Pale Hounds are horribly underrepresented. I'd like to get to know them better.

I know barely anything about their culture and customs, except for the fact that they're isolationist perfectionists. I don't know what Valorn is like either.
>>
>>54462445
Yeah, I need to get more down about their culture and get them involved in a few more conflicts. I won't be able to get them down properly until I'm back home, but I've been thinking things up for them.
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>>54462464
Feel free to share any ideas you have man!
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>>54459981
Oooof. I'm actually not sure I can answer that one, since I usually try not to mirror anything too closely when I write, if possible.

Emil is:

Like Guilliman, because he worked tirelessly to build up Ultima Segmentum's infrastructure. But not, because Emil is a wanderer whereas Guilliman had Ultramar.

Like Perturabo, because he's also a technical wizard. But not, because he's really only a master of psybernetics, not technology as a whole.

Like Vulkan/Sangy, because he's filled with a deep sense of love and loyalty for those beneath him. But not, because it only *really* extends to his Legion and those close to Emil, rather than all humanity.

Like Fulgrim since Emil seeks to be supremely skilled. But not, because Emil's focus is far narrower, he's not seeking perfection in all things. Emil's also a brilliant swordfighter, but because of the sheer psychic power he funnels into the blade rather than being technically skilled.

Like Magnus because well... no shit. #PSYKERS. But not, because clearly Emil views the Warp far differently than Magnus, concealing and constraining his own skills when it suits Emil in order to duck the Warp's influence. Emil might possibly rival Magnus in strength, but almost never shows it unlike Magnus.

Like Horus because he can be very persuasive and charismatic when he wants. But not, because generally he doesn't care to do so unless it's to lead his own Legion. And clearly Emil can lie his ass off if he so chooses, but generally only in pursuit of his personal objectives.


tl;dr Emil's in it for Emil, even if he doesn't always seem like it. He would have been loyal to the Emperor forever except the Emperor broke faith with Emil (At least from Emil's perspective). If he has the time, Emil's cool with everyone and doesn't mind helping. But if he ever *has* to make a choice, that choice is always in favor of the Steel Souls. ALWAYS.

So I really don't know what or who that makes Emil. Maybe you guys have some ideas?
>>
>>54462464
I'm eager to listen

"I personally think it's a Lemon. A Lemon is a mighty fruit, my favorite." Rogal Dorn
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>>54463021
Also I just checked the google doc this morning, and someone scrambled the legion order again. Or maybe it's just a glitch, idk.
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>>54463111
Fixed it.
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>>54463480
Sweet.

And I can't remember exactly, but weren't you one of the anons who wasn't in favor of the "Emil falls to Chaos" version of events? If so, it might be relevant to your interests that I wrote a counterpart to that story >>54454924 where Emil does not fall to Chaos. But just as before, I could use some outside input regarding which direction works better and thus far no one's said anything.
>>
>>54463620
I do honestly prefer this. It does leave the question of as to what Emil's ultimate fate is, but I feel like this is better than him falling to Chaos anyway. The rejection of Chaos is a vital part of Emil's character to me.
>>
>>54464344
Yeah, it replaces the simplicity of "Emil's a Daemon, now I don't have to worry about whether or not it's appropriate for him to live a long time" with "Well now it's an open question again how long he lives post-heresy, and his ship technically has an AI inside it, but he's not a Daemon Primarch".

Does mean that if I go with door number 2 I have exacerbated the issue of what Separatist Primarchs do post-Heresy though. Hmm.
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>>54464439
I say you go with door number 2. The Separatist Union basically allows Primarch to get away with shit that isn't death or apotheosis. We'll find a way to get Emil out of the picture and then get him back for a 7v7v7 brawl at the end of 40,999
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>>54464703
Mmk. Now then, theming/choices aside, how does the actual writing itself hold up?
>>
Bumpity bump
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>>54467084
Lambach probably finds a way
>>
Personally I don't see the problem with the Imperium spreading the Faith, even to Xenos that they make slaves, as long as the technology at most echelons is the same as it is in OU, considering Xenos are eradicate by most Separatist factions, and the ones where they are treated as equal are in the extreme minority.

I really don't see the big deal, or why we need to bother writing anything from the Imperial perspective when everything's going to be the same as OU, and the strictly superior Seperatist faction exists
>>
>>54469200
t. kincaid
>>
>>54469200
>>54469289
I really don't care any more lads. I appreciate the effort, but once Kinnévail sees himself off the galactic stage, I'm gonna move on as well. No point in sticking around if I'm just going to copy OU 1:1, and the Seps and chaos are going to have all the juicy gubbins
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>>54471482
If you're really pinning your entire desire to participate in this project on whether or not your legion gets to whip some random xenos from time to time, then i dunno what to say to ya dude.

You really can't think of ANY other way to distinguish the imperials from the other two factions? none at all? If that's the limits of your creativity, then we're well shut of you.

trillions of combinations of words in infinite diversity, and this guy can't come up with but one.
>>
>>54471676
To clarify I think his idea of Xenos slaves is a cool enough idea. My argument against it was that from the outset of this project the idea was that the Imperials were always going to be the Imperials there was never meant to be a big difference there.
That is entirely why the seps are formed. Because the OU has it that if you are not a GOOD guy you are by default a BAD guy. We wanted to change that up a bit and have the grey area. 2 good factions with a differing set of ideals. Being accepting of a Xenos integration lands you fairly in the Sep camp. I don't want Kincaid to quit on us and enjoy his writing. Hope he chooses to stick around as he has contributed a massive amount. Sometimes though you're Ideas get shot down, not to be mean or anything just because they don't fit the story in a pleasing way.
At the start of this Project I wanted the CoH to be loyal but there was no room for them so I took over Nurgle. I wanted them all to become Rat marines instead of traditional plague Marines and almost everyone shot that idea down and I am glad they chose to because I've ended up with a legion I am happy with.
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>>54471482
What about more Psykers? If the Seps are all cold logic and haughty attitudes, then why not have the Imperium dip deeper into mysticsm, have rituals to invoke the Emperor's power, sanctioned Psykers corps, Legion of the Damned, etc.

It fits with Kinnévail's mystic upbringing as well as his hypocrisy and return to clear though before he makes pilgrimage across the stars.

You said you wanted him to have a living saint type moment during his fight with a Primarch, and come to terms with the fact he is a psyker, so a more "magical" Imperium works fine.

Chaos will be a horrid mish mash of logic and superstition

How is that for compromise? Not saying you can have sanctioned Xenos, or Xenos thralls, but it would be a rarer and noteworthy thing, not a societal standard. The Imperium isn't supposed to be diverse and cosmopolitan in the Star Wars or Star Trek sense
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>>54473503
This makes sense. The personality cult surrounding the emperor and the astronomicon would align itself with the heavier use of psykers other related forces.
From my point of view, they would be incredibly ritualized as per the OU, over the top.
>>
>>54473503
Isn't the Imperium already basically collecting and using all the psykers it can get though?

Either as Sanctioned Psykers, Astropaths, Inquisitors/their retinues, Librarians etc, or as fuel for the Astronomicon?

Where exactly would they even *get* more psykers to deploy, they already hunt for them 24/7/365, I'm pretty sure.
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>>54472026
My understanding was that both sides were bad, but in a unique way.

The Seps are a technologically more advanced and progressive but brutal and oppressive military regime. Mass surveillance, newspeak, secret police, and violent crackdowns on religion and anything vaguely approximating it. Basically the Truth taken to it's most extreme on a widespread level. That would include complete intolerance of xenos. Armies are made up of dour conscripts, stroggified political dissidents, and drones.

The Imps are hyper religious fundamentalists with their entire society based on faith and devotion to the church. Everyone prays, everything that can have an image of the Emperor on it does, and technology is even more stagnant than the OU Imperium because most of the AdMech left with the Seps. They get by on religious fervor and the potentially actual magical power of worship. Armies are made up of religious crusaders and wild flagellants.

On a certain level, either could have xenos within them, but I actually think it's more likely that the Imps do. Because they're kinda following the spirit rather than the letter of the Imperial truth, and because they might be under a little more strain for numbers/production than the Seps, they'd have less qualms about enslaving rather than destroying xenos. It's a symbol of humanities power to parade their shackled aliens around and force them to work in factories or as slave soldiers. The Seps would just exterminate them because from a cold logical perspective there's only room in the galaxy for one race.
>>
>>54473798
Oh, and by 40k both are probably about equal in terms of widespread corruption and misuse of power.

>>54473503
I agree with all of this as well. Plus the Imperium has more of a need to accept psykers because they're still based around the Emperor and he needs his psyker snacks.
>>
>>54473798
The Seps are also a lot less unified, was one of the key elements. There's a good chance they won't rally to each other's aid readily or effectively.

They're hard to attack because Ultima is so huge and easy to hide in, but the Loyalists are FAR more coherent in their purpose and objectives when they do choose to move out.

When the Emperor commands, the hammer fucking DROPS. The challenge is to pin a target down.

Or so I was thinking.
>>
>>54473838
Yeah. On the whole, the Seps should be all about paranoia and "desperate measures".

While Seps are all worrying their neighbour might be a closet Emperor-worshipper, the Imps are all gathering around the Sep burning at the stake to sing hymns.
>>
>>54473905

Chaos advantages:

Is Chaos. They get to cheat their asses off all the time, every time, forever. Even when they lose, they don't necessarily actually lose. Is Chaos. Also, IS CHAOS. You are fancy tricks incarnate. What more need be said?

Separatist advantages:

They become extremely diverse. Many different philosophies, many different approaches to warfare, many wunderwaffen of all kinds. A tool for every job. They are also Space Russia, there is always more territory to fade into as they fall back, only to counterattack later. Attrition is always on their side, for they have supply caches and hidden fortifications all over the goddamned place. Every campaign against them is completely different than all which came before. Their opponents are always "Prepared to fight the previous war", so to speak. No one to tell them they can't do something either. (Although of course there's no one to bail them out of they fuck up too)

Loyalist advantages:

Someone always has your back. Support is always available. Your supply lines are shorter and more reliable than any other faction. You know who you are and what you're about. The rules are clear, the way is lit, and you never need question or doubt yourself. You fight with a clean conscience, and as such you fight at your utmost potential, overcoming any technological or arcane disadvantage. The Emperor favors you and you alone. And you know it. The gifts of Chaos are always double-edged, and the Separatists have no patron of any kind, but although the Emperor cannot intervene so frequently as the Four Gods, when he does it is always to your benefit and to great effect.

Thoughts?
>>
>>54474731
Sounds good to me.
>>
>>54465208
The writing is good man. It was much longer than I expected, but well written nonetheless.

>>54469200
I agree that the Imperium staying stagnant technologically is more important than keeping the Imperium strictly human.

>>54471482
I fail to see why you are putting so much weight on this. There's plenty of stuff to do, nobody is forcing you to contribute to only your own dudes. It really saddens me to see this attitude.

>>54472026
Truth.

>>54473503
>>54473683
What is it that the Sisters of Battle do anyway? The holy auras and the like; are they psychic powers?

>>54473798
I agree with this as well.

>>54473838
More truth. There are advantages to being an empire, there are advantages to being a confederacy.

>>54474731
Even more truth Emil. For a filthy Sep, you've still got it where it counts.
>>
>>54474731
I agree
>>
>>54477225
Little follow up:
Right now, the best solution seems to be this
The Imperium thinks that Xenos are barely worth the dirt they walk on, but they'll be allowed to live in order to perform roles similar to those done by servitors and the like. The Imperium destroys all Xeno-tech on sight though; the works of the alien are abhorrent.
The Union absolutely hates Xenos. Astartes first, then humans, then mutants, then Xenos. Most Seps kill Xenos on sight, Piter seemingly being the only exception. The Union is willing to adapt Xeno-tech though; it already exists, might as well make use of it.
Piter's divergence from the other Seps in regards to the Xenos is likely something that'll bring him into conflict with his brothers. It's a Confederation though, so they basically kind of have to suck it up, lest they bring down the Union as a whole.
>>
What should be our next point of focus? Perhaps we could plot the early Brotherwar out more? The reveal of Chaos, along with the Eastern Crusade.
>>
>>54479008

[M31.204] (Date is arbitrary, fix it if I'm wrong of course)

[The White Crusade]

In the tumultuous years of the Great Scouring, the dissipation of the Ruinstorm and the Separatists' retreat deep into Ultima Segmentum to lick their wounds, all was in flux. But the remaining Imperials blazed with a desire for vengeance which could not be sated. Though their war machine lay battered and broken, through sheer force of will the faithful took up arms once again, even as the last dregs of the Traitor Legions turned and fled into the Eye of Terror.

Wheeling towards the Galactic East, three Legions led by Primarchs __________ unleashed their gathered might upon Ultima Segmentum's renegades. World after world burned with their passage, and hundreds of planets returned to Imperial control. At first the campaign was easily fought. Most of the worlds the Crusade encountered had simply been lost in the Ruinstorm's confusion and gratefully welcomed Imperial protection. The soldiers' hearts grew joyous at this divine providence, for their resources grew and supplies were plentiful.

Few engagements with hostile forces took place. What little Separatist fragments the Crusade encountered were swiftly destroyed or ran for shelter at the first hint of bolter fire. Only when the Imperial Legions passed well beyond the Galactic Core did they begin to meet true resistance.

Full of confidence, minor problems like sabotaged munitions and assassinated commanders hardly daunted the Imperial's spirits. Even when Astropathic communications with the rearguard went dead it sparked little dissent among the rank and file. Crusade command merely sent appropriate forces back along their path to restore order. They needed something bigger, some target of real value. Capturing an occasional Forge or Hive world helped, every planet counted, but none of them seemed to provide anything key for the Separatists' continued function.

>cont and also bump.
>>
>>54480739
The Loyalists knew full well that chasing every lead or peasant rumor about the renegades was a lost cause. To bring this Crusade to a proper conclusion would require hitting a target the Separatists could not ignore. But where? The Primarchs checked their records carefully, scouring the pre-Heresy documents for anything that might give them a hint. Many of the archives were unaccountably damaged, and Imperial maps of Ultima Segmentum curiously lacking. The Crusaders swore an oath of purgation to be fulfilled when they next saw Terran soil. Whoever in the Administratum had helped the Separatists falsify and doctor their maps would pay *dearly*.

But at last, a scout frigate from the ________ detected a massive concentration of resources mere light-years away. Twin worlds orbiting one another in close binary, spiraling around a radiant yellow sun. Vetrus Alpha and Beta, one a water-rich planet full to bursting with agriculture and manpower, the other fully tapped, shaped, reworked and repurposed for the fires of industry. The Vetrus system was aglow with traffic of all sorts, voidcraft rushing to and fro to destinations unknown.

At last, Primarch ______ thought. Here is a prize they cannot ignore. With all speed, the Crusade charged forward to meet their foes.

It took six months for the naval battle to conclude. Forces from several Separatist Legions flooded the voidspace around Vetrus, cleverly using the planets as cover to warp in more reinforcements. Eventually though, their lines broke and the fanatics poured through, slaughtering every single human being on Vetrus Alpha's exposed agrarian surface. The Imperial's blood was up and they rejoiced at finally being able to see their enemies cut to ribbons in the streets after all this time at void.

Vetrus Beta fared better, being far more suited to dig in and defend. Here, the Imperials were driven back time and time again, forcing them to commit ever larger concentrations to break through.

>cont.
>>
>>54480913
Eventually though, Vetrus Beta joined its twin in death. Its proud towers lay toppled. Its foundries silent. Its genetoria would never ignite again. Thousands of Marines on both sides had lost their lives in a single conflict, the most brutal blow to the Adeptus Astartes since the Heresy itself. The Crusaders stopped to regather and reorganize, stripping what was left of both planets to the bedrock. And they realized they were alone.

To defeat entrenched Separatists required every scrap of the Crusade leadership's attention. They were never given time to look away from the battle for a moment. And while their attention lay pinned on the Vetrus system, the fanatics lost sight of the bigger picture. The renegades were crashing in from every angle now, and the Imperial rearguard was abruptly nonexistent. The Crusaders faced a terrible choice.

Pressing forward would almost certainly lead to their eventual destruction and dissolution. Yet in this moment they were flush with supplies and manpower, certainly the strongest operating force for a dozen sectors or more. The faithful would rest with the Emperor for all time, so what had they to fear from death? All that mattered was breaking the Separatists' backs so that a second crusade could wipe them out entirely.

Turning back would preserve much of the Imperial forces. They could always call it a highly successful raid, and spin this as propaganda for a thousand years. Many hundreds of worlds had already been securely returned to the Imperial fold and the empire had need of capable leaders to re-integrate them. And troops to keep an eye on them.

The three crusading Primarchs debated long into the night regarding what to do, and ultimately Primarch _______ was the tie-breaking voice. They would fall back.

But the "White" Crusade, as Imperial scholars eventually came to call it, had not earned its name yet.

>cont.
>>
>>54481129
Knowing the Imperium would not return to many Separatist worlds for some time, perhaps never, Primarch ________ authorized the wholesale use of Exterminatus-class weaponry against every planet they passes on their road back to Imperial space. Such planets as could not be solidly brought back into the Imperial fold on this first wave of reconquest would be denied the Separatists, and future Imperial Crusades commanded to ignore the burned-out husks. The Imperials stole what was easily taken, paused only long enough to spool up their Warp Drives once more, and left a barrage of incendiary warheads in their wake, burning everything below to white-hot embers.

Separatist records indicate that five hundred and sixty-three inhabited worlds felt the Imperial torch. Even in M40, most remain as an empty zone between Imperial and Separatist.

Though the White Crusade cost the Imperium countless lives, they were hailed as heroes upon their return and the campaign deemed a great success. Indeed, bringing so many planets back into the Imperium and causing such havoc among the renegades was such a propaganda coup that Imperial productivity skyrocketed and birthrates increased dramatically for fifty years afterward.

Yet the Separatists still lived. And Imperial historians do speak, quietly, timidly, far away from Astartes ears. They note that after the White Crusade conflicts evolved differently. Before this the Separatists waged war in fairly traditional patterns. But the hideous loss of life in the Vetrus system showed the renegades that new tools were needed to maintain parity with the religious fanatics. After the White Crusade, the Separatists began hundreds of aggressive research programs to gain an edge in future conflicts. The Loyalists may have struck the first hammer-blow, but the renegades were singularly determined that such a catastrophe should never recur.

Reconciliation was now truly impossible. The Galaxy would never be the same.

>fin

Thoughts?
>>
>>54480739
>>54480913
>>54481129
>>54481334
Neat, I like it. Now, which are the Legions involved?
>>
>>54481622
I intentionally left it blank for the actual guys writing for Loyalist Legions to fill in.
>>
>>54481635
Einchurt makes a lot of sense here.
>>
>>54481635
The Blades BTFO after the Siege, as they lost their Primarch and suffered many casualties.
>>
>>54481707
>>54481718
Whatever works for you guys, doesn't matter to me.

Like I say, I felt like sketching out the events, I didn't want to butt into anyone else's narrative by pinning down Legion X or Primarch Y into this battle. Figured it'd be best to let the people who know those Legions better than I do to take the reins.
>>
Did Kincaid finally fuck off?

I wouldn't mind having a legion
>>
>>54482149
A: That's rude.
B: I don't know.
C: Rude people don't get Legions.
>>
>>54482149
Yeah, I don't think that's gonna work.
>>
>>54482149
Don't know about Kincaid, but you surely are
>>
>>54482263
>>54482346
>>54482558
You can't really still support Xenoboy
>>
>>54482904
I don't support his idea at all. I think Imperials working with or around xenos in any fashion is bogus and reeks of speshul snowflaking.

But I don't see anything worth supporting from you either.
>>
>>54477524
In the OU, the Admech has been known to steal xenotech e.g. yme loc.

Gyahdred treats it with suspicion. It works, however and all things have Omnissiah natures, even daemons. However you avoid the things that run on Maya.
So they're probably decently cautious.
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>>54482999
>The entirety of the Sepratist faction
But having xenos niggers is too far.

The whole thing is a sham
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>>54483125

(>_>)

Ok dude. Here's your (You).
>>
>>54483271
Do you think the Separatists' style of warfare is inspired at least in part by Mot's tactics during his crusade against them?
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>>54483868
I think with the Seps the answer is always going to be yes and no.

The Imperials have a generally coherent style of waging war.

The Seps really don't. Sometimes that means they've got the right tool for the right job, sometimes that means they wound up specializing in underwater basket weaving instead of how to shoot a bolter, so to speak.
>>
>>54483125
>>
Jesus, I regret ever bringing it up
>>
Yo, Emil, bro. Do you have a color scheme for your Legion?
>>
>>54484844
Lolwut?

I've had the metallic blue with purple and bronze trim since forever.

It's in the Legion Lineup picture someone made way back when, unless I've gone completely insane.
>>
>>54484779
Just shut up and leave faggot, no one here is putting up with your snowflake shit, and fewer are putting up with your dramatic "woe is me" shit

Nut up and shut up, and let the big boys work
>>
>>54484930
>said the wee lil troll
>>
>>54484925
Well, could you please post it? I'm updating it
>>
>>54484930
You, shut up and leave. We don't have to deal with your hater shit. Don't have anything more reasonable to say? Then leave.
>>
>>54485119
Mmk, here you go.
>>
>>54485304
Did you ever get around to checking the Legion page with the Anthem?
>>
>>54485485
Yeah actually I did, thanks for reminding me to mention it. Interstellar's a good movie, although the music is so... dramatic, I'm not sure if I can write something with similar gravitas. :P

It's definitely the sort of music that would be played when the Legion unleashes some sort of trump card though, I think.
>>
>>54485555
Well the thought was that Kincaid would compose a piece that captures Emil's sophistication, his lofty ideals, as well his metropolitan, haughty attitude and comfort with the Warp.

Other legions get a trumpeting call, or a raucous battle cry, or a solemn, studious hymnal. The Souls are befitting of an opera.
>>
>>54485659
Seems reasonable.
>>
>>54485304
Thanks!
>>
>>54486659
No problem. And also bump.
>>
>>54487944
You know, in keeping with the Separatists-as-Soviet-Russia element, it seems logical that they would pull off a "Moving the Industry beyond the Urals".

That might be a project that a couple different Seps might want to undertake.
>>
So do we want the Imperium to be essentially unchanged from the OU or not?

Because I seriously think they should be relatively different, as I say here >>54473798

I just want to know how many people think each way.
>>
>>54491276

You've got some of the problems backwards though. Imperials aren't strained for manpower, quite the opposite. It's the Separatists who are trying to make an empire out of the Siberian Outback of the galaxy. The Imperials have the advantage of some of humanity's oldest and most well established worlds, with all the infrastructure and population that implies.

The Separatists have to go for technological advancement because they don't have a choice. The Imperium and its endless hordes of hyper-fanatics would mow them down otherwise. The Imperium of our AU would have far fewer rebellions and traitors than OU, because amplifying faith TO 11!!!! makes them that much less concerned with their own well-being. And much more willing to sacrifice for the Emperor.
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>>54491478
Well I can definitely get behind that. My point was mainly that the Imperium is distinctly different than the OU in a way that contrasts to the Seps.

Though, they might be strained for SLAVES, because they worship their own humanity so much. Being poor is fine, but turning humans into servitors would be an abomination. Hence why they have conquered xenos work in the salt mines, so to speak.

Generally speaking, I'm not really for or against xenos in the Imperium, but I can see how it would work there. Especially if >>54477524 is the case.

Also, I guess I'll wear a name now because people mentioned I should.
>>
>>54491478
The Seps are also forced to go for that "oppressive" style of things because as a confederation, there's always this sense of "If they could rebel or go their own way, why can't I do the same thing?" Always that slippery slope towards balkanization looming in the background of everything they try to do.

The Imperium has little or none of those problems to concern themselves with.
>>
>>54491478
That's why I'm advocating for Xenos thrall caste.

Populations are easier to control when they have a scapegoat to actively abuse and to account for their troubles. Besides that's another gun on line that can soak up bolter fire before the children of the Emperor have to shed their crimson, human blood
>>
>>54491719
>>54491728

Xenos *servitors* might be possible, but remember. You never know what horrible time bombs you've just accepted into your midst.

It's an awful risk to take for little reward.

I'm still not in favor of xenos at all, but as servitors I could probably accept it, if you can provide something to counter the "Oh god why are they spreading hyper-plague we fucked up SO BAD" problem.
>>
>>54491743
When has Xenos spreading diseases ever been in a thing in 40k? Honesy question.

I just like the idea because it highlights the arrogance and degradation of the Imperium. I can't honestly see it happening on a wide/standardized scale, if only because there aren't many xenos races that would make good slaves besides Tau and Kroot.

It would probably just end up as a lore tidbit to characterize the Imps.
>>
>>54491743
My thought on the matter is that the idea of xenos buying into the hype amuses me. Like, some do, some don't, but that would be something amusing to me.
>>
>>54491776
Disease is just an example.

The OU Imperium doesn't invite waves of xenos into its space for any reason, so canon writing doesn't really address these consequences.

The American South lived in perpetual fear of a slave uprising. How much more terrifying would it be if the slaves could phase through walls, or clone themselves, or evolve weapons on the fly? Or any one of a thousand magical abilities that we see in canon?

How could the Imperials ever believe that the value of using xenos outweighed the risks in doing so?

If it's truly to showcase the *arrogance*, then as long as you play it straight? That might also be an avenue for success. Pride goeth before a fall, just make sure to reference the falls when they happen. And probably not everyone's going to be onboard with xeno-slaves in-universe also.
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>>54491869
Well, again, I'm not really talking about having Orks or Tyranids as slaves, because that's pants on head retarded. Just generic rubber forehead aliens, which I realize only really exist in universe as the Tau. They also wouldn't really be inviting any in. They're beating them up and shipping them away in chains.

Ultimately the idea doesn't really work in 40k because all alien life we're exposed to besides a few token examples is terrifying and dangerous. So I acquiesce that we may as well drop it. I just liked the visuals of humans having poor little xenos chained and in rags holding up their golden palanquins during parades, as much as it doesn't really work in universe.
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>>54491776
>if only because there aren't many xenos races

Hruud, Tallerian Dog Soldiers, Ambul, Vespids, Demiurge, Enoulians, Jokaero, Lacrymole, Nekuli, Nicassar, Rak'Gol, Kroot, Sslyth, Thyrrus, Lxoatl

To name a few, and this isn't even getting into the hundreds of Abhumans that are barely better than sanctioned Xenos

>>54491743
What are you even talking about? Of the few Xenos I've listed over half can be found in OU Rogue Trader and Inquisitor retinue, with less than a quarter being superior to baseline humans in any significant way.

Besides, these Xenos are either forced into slavery and eradicated, and over generations of indoctrination and selective breeding (which happens in OU Imperium, as well as IRL Chattel slavery) some of the Xenos begin to praise the Human God Emperor that allows them to draw breath as faithful Xenos servants of the true super power in the universe, Humanity.
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>>54491936
> all alien life we're exposed to besides a few token examples is terrifying and dangerous

That's pretty much the centerpoint of my "Don't use xenos" objection, yeah.

If that gets addressed (without handwaving) though, I'd probably retract my objections.
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>>54491936
For every unfathomable, unknowable, horrible minor Xenos, there are three species that are just trying to get by.

Problem is, by the time 40k rolls around most of these are dead, because Warhammer super powers don't fuck around
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>>54491999
Read
>>54492015
>>54491967

As well as http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions
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>>54491967
>some of the Xenos begin to praise the Human God Emperor

This just seems really weird to me. Like, I get where you're coming from and I see your logic (Stockholm Syndrome/gaslighting xenos), but it still feels bad.
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>>54492082
There is a precedent in the lore.

And good, it's supposed to be feel dirty. Welcome to Warhammer, where Sacred cows only survive due to profit margins and all else lay at the mercy of lore rape.
>>
Something else everyone needs to keep in mind, is that this is still mid to late 30k. Once 40k rolls around, and big players like Necron, Tyranids, unified Ork WAAAGHS, and larger Chaos hordes begin to rear their heads, things will probably go to shit

Things can change, I'm just putting forward an Imperium at it's strongest without adult supervision (Kincaid and Primarchs who don't know how to tell him no don't count)
>>
Just dropping by to say I got a tightly scheduled week of work ahead of me. Presumably won't be able to participate until sunday. Forgot to write in the discord.

Be kindto each other, kids!
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>>54492190
About said adult supervision, we should discuss the fates of the non-daemon primarchs. I don't think they should just hang out until 40k. Some of them would die, some would disappear like in the OU. Piter has said that he wants Piter to stick around but I'm not sure how I feel about that. Maybe he pulls a Vulkan and has his sons go on some scavenger hunt to find him.
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>
>>
Bump
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>>54490582
They might try to put more focus on Forge Worlds away from the Eye of Terror; Mot specifically. Moving a Forge World is not easily done though.

>>54491276
>>54473798
I'm willing to go along with this for the most part, though there is one thing in your post that bothers me; the AdMech.

The existence of the SepMech actually should not affect the AdMech too much. If anything, the SepMech only really affect the DarkMech. Plenty of Magos ended up with Chaos because they were sick of the AdMech's restraints, and the DarkMech was the only alternative. Now that there's a SepMech, that would mean the DarkMech is much smaller. The reduced DarkMech does get compensated by the Forge Lords and Hashut however.

>>54491728
>>54491743
The big question that remains though, is why the Imperium does that here and not in the OU. Is it just because Kincaid's Ecclesiarchy is different? Because, like >>54491478 said, the Imperium is never lacking in actual manpower.

Also, if we're gonna do this, we've gotta establish which races are acceptable for this and which are not.
>>
>>54492082
That's actually canon. The Black Templars find some xenos who praise the emperor and don't exterminate them, for example. They're brought into the Imperium.
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>>54495313
Well, the DarkMech might be more radical than some of those that stay Imperial in the OU are willing to tolerate. With the relatively moderate but still more or less free SepMech as an option, I could see larger numbers leaving Mars than in OU.
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>>54492242
Gyahdred gets basically put on a golden throne and wired into the networks after a serious disagreement with Einchurt. The result is Vanus style manipulation.
The legion largely leaves him alone, seeing him as a Bodhisattva or half way to robo nirvana. Besides the odd MANUAL OVERRIDE which typically results in a kill shot or nigh miraculous performance, nobody really knows what he's up to. The legion has started adding heroes to the network, though.
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>>54492242
Well, Piter is kind of crazy when m41 rolls round. Perhaps he's kept on Ussar, locked in a small section of an otherwise massive palace, spending his time chatting and feasting with friends who have been dead for millennia. Perhaps some liberators act as caretakers, masquerading as these old friends so they can keep an eye on him.
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>>54492242
Pacha: Becomes a planet
Linares: Runs off into the warp
Raj: Dies on Terra. Taken into the warp by Lambach.
Kinnévail: Runs off into the warp.
Solomon: Seemlingly killed. Becomes the Carmine Knight.
Je'She: ?
Einchurt: ?

Rokuten: Dies trying to take over the Confederacy.
Frederick: ?
Valorn: ?
Piter: Perpetual. Loses his mind by M41.
Gyahdred: Becomes a graphics card.
Zelbezis: ?
Emil: ?

Mot: Daemon Primarch. Continues being a prick.
Isekho: Daemon Primarch
Elsu: Daemon Primarch.
Deshain: Daemon Primarch.
Lambach: Daemon Primarch. Tries to resurrect Raj.
Ashur: Collared, then Daemon Primarch.
Marduk: Dead.
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>>54495313
Both the SepMech and DarkMech have legions that can provide them with resources and bodies (Dusk Phantoms and Forge Lords respectively)
>>
>>54495759
I'm talking actual magos here. Upon the outbreak of the Martian Schism, this seems like the most logical split to me:
AdMech 45%
SepMech 30%
DarkMech 25%

The Phantoms and Lords can provide 'bodies', but not magos.
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>>54495790
I would contend that some marines could match, if not surpass some Magi
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>>54495828
Some, sure, but then we're talking Primarchs and legion special characters. As a general rule, they don't. There's a reason they keep the magos around, even though they're some of the most insufferable cunts imaginable.
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>>54495848
I shudder to think of a character that even the Lords think is a prick

>inb4 Cawl
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>>54495857
Cawl is gonna be a character we decide on later.

I'm pretty sure Mot fucking despises the AdMech. The Lords themselves would have a similar sentiment.
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"Don't care about those Magi, just keep them away from our armories"
Linares to his Chief Techmarine
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>>54495757
For Einchurt I kinda like the idea of him sticking around but nobody knows it.
1 day he just straight up disapears, no one knows where he went but he has decided to be the Imperiums unsung guardian.
Whenever some corrupt official is manipulating parliament for personal gain Einchurt takes them out from the sidelines or something.
Maybe he could be the head of the Vindicares or something like that?
Have to see how he feels about that idea, but it could work?
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>>54495757
Zelbezis gets killed by his own marines (unless his anon has changed his mind) and Valorn fucks off on board the "Child of Adversity" with a decent number of Hounds, partially to cause a war significant enough to better unify the Union and partially so humanity's capability to control "higher" beings can be tested via the Regents of the Hounds
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>>54496994
I'll ask Zelbezis himself. Valorn basically sets up a Crusade against the Imperium then? One that gets him killed? What kills him?

>>54496989
Einchurt has never struck me as particularly sneaky though; doubt he'd make a good assassin. I'm sure his end could be a bit more explosive.
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>>54497058
Maybe the armchair boss of some Assassin Temple?
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>>54497110
Become the head of an assassin temple seems kind of a step down for a Primarch. Plus, I imagine Einchurt would surely use his assassins to set some stuff straight over the millenia.

Maybe he just kills himself, like a proper little not!Hitler
>>
PROMPT:
If forced to choose between fighting one of the other two human factions, which will your legion choose?
The Forge Lords would choose to fight Separatists over Imperials for reasons many of them no longer remember, but have something to do with vengeance.

ALSO PROMPT:
Chaos legions, how do you recruit after the heresy? Forge Lords take the most promising forge menials and slaves from worlds they conquer.
>>
>>54497473
>First
Chaos because Lambach and Fucking Kane. Linares thinks that he can help his dear brother, one way or another, and is always thirsty for revenge against the Gunslingers.
>>
>>54497473
>First prompt
Chaos. The Separatists tore the Imperium apart and their heretical ways will some day be there downfall, but Chaos destroyed humanity's golden future, sieged their homeworld and killed their Primarch. Not to mention the Mot and his Forge Lords are still out there, waiting to have their goofy moustaches slapped off.

>Second prompt
The traitor Titan Marchers recruit the old fashioned way, albeit with more kidnapping. They take children from Imperial and Separatist worlds and turn them into Chaos marines. Even the most dangerous warbands have enough know-how to keep geneseed at workable levels.
>>
Nikaea

Je’She strode across the amphitheatre to the podium. Dressed in the full armament of war. His dusk grey armour covered in script of tales long past and stories barely forged. His keffiyeh hung loosely around his neck as did the blood red sash around his waist. His helm carved into the likeness of an unblinking face. The Sentinel incarnate.

He walked with purpose, his strides confident and measured. His pose displayed assurance, but not pride. Dancing Devil was grasped loosely at his side as the Primarch of the IXth approached the centre.
Once he reached the podium, he stopped. Looking around at the crowd sat before him.
Generals.
Admirals.
Legionnaires.
His brothers.
His father.

He saw their faces. Some inscrutable like Marduk’s, his emotions imperceptible as his piercing eyes seemed to assess Je’She. Observing every detail beneath his scarred face. Others, like Lambach, watched in earnest as the the Watchman himself gave his piece on the issue. Worry etched into his face as his fists clenched.
Je’She smiled to himself inside his helmet. ‘Dear Lambach’ he thought, ‘always so open. I hope this does not change you, for your joy is sorely needed in the Imperium.’
He paused, gathered his thoughts, and struck.
Embedding Dancing Devil into the earth in one, swift motion, Je’She addressed the crowds.
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>>54497706
“Leaders of the Imperium. We all know why we are here today. For on this day we face a grave situation. I feel that what we decide today will affect humanity for the rest of its days.”

He walked around the power glaive thrust in the earth. A symbol of the might and solidarity of the IXth.

“As mankind has always been,we are afraid. We yell and scream and point fingers in fear and anger. We fear the unknown, we despise the darkness and those unseen things in the night. We created stories to scare children before going to bed. Stories of dark, evil things that crawled in the night and ate our corpses. Every time we laid down to sleep we feared for our lives in case some unseen horror came up at a whim and tore our lives away. We feared, and we were right in being afraid.”

He took off his helmet, dropping it beside his weapon.

“Until we discovered fire.”

His rough, black hair and beard covered his dark face, as his eyes bored into every person he looked at. Slowly scanning the crowd, drawing them in.

“Fire was our destiny. With it, we were both the creators and destroyers. With it we fought back the beasts of the night, and went forth into the dark forests. Those forests became camps, those camps became villages, and those villages became cities. It all started with humanity’s flame.
However, fire is not without its dangers. Empires have fallen to the blaze of conquest. Do we not warn about the importance of not touching open flame? Do we not keep fire in grates and torches so they do not spread?”
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>>54497721
Je’She finished the slow circles around the power-glaive to stop in front of his father and brothers. Letting his gaze rest upon each and every one of them.

“This is why we are here today. To discuss the fire of psykers. The blaze of the immaterium. Many of us argue for the use of this new heat. This new tool in which mankind can drive back the new beasts. Alien and malicious. The rest of us argue against it, seeing it as strange and unnatural. Just as inhuman as the things we fight.

I can see the argument clearly. Fire has always been our ally, albeit a dangerous one. So why not this new blaze? This strange and uncanny power that lets man conjure lightning from his fingertips and the earth groan and crack at whim.”

The primarch’s voice rose. His rich tones gaining in intensity as he lead the crowd into such an intense atmosphere that it seemed it could all shatter on knife-edge.

“This new power could bring about a golden age for us! An age of peace and security. Children would no longer here about the xenos that we war against save only as tales long-told! The common man could travel the galaxy if they so wished in safety. Families could be raised, and humanity would push ever-onward! This fire could be our hope!

Or it could be our doom.”
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>>54497727
The Harddinian lowered his head. He looked at his hands as though they were bloodied by some crime.

“As a primarch, countless lives are in my hands. This responsibility I do not take lightly, for it is a burden only my father and brothers and I can bear. Our responsibility is for the entirety of this great Imperium. Down to the smallest child.

And we cannot use a fire we do not understand. We ourselves are barely children in this new subject. Even though some of my brothers have knowledge of it that far outstrips our meagre understanding, we do not know how deep the well is, not matter how deep my brothers can go.
For if we use this fire without knowing what it truly is, then it shall be our downfall. This fire shall spread and wreak havoc across our beloved empire. Drowning humanity in unnatural flames.
Maybe in ten thousand years from now we will understand it enough for mankind to fully grasp the mantle of the warp, but that is not this day. And on this day I cast my vote against the use of psykers.”

He looked around again at the crowd, once again drawing them in with searching eyes and open arms. Then turned around and looked at his brothers. Seeing their judgement raining down. Some nodded approvingly. Einchurt and Ashur looked pleased, their lips in thin smiles as they looked upon their brother. Others, were grim; angry even. Emil’s brow was furrowed. Lambach looked upon his brother in open anger. Looking down at Je’She as his armoured fists gripped the balistrade.

Je’She opened his arms wide, laying his intentions bare.

“For the greater good.”
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File: Legion's Roster.jpg (421 KB, 1058x794)
421 KB
421 KB JPG
BATHUL BRUTHAS
I PRESENT UPON THEE
THE LEGION ROSTER
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>>54495757

Knowing that those who overthrow are usually overthrown in turn, Zelbezis becomes a paranoid madman, to the point even his legion has enough of it. Several failed plots later one of them actually succeed in murdering the Primarch. This leads to a war of succession where various interpretations of the Lex Bellicum oppose for half a century before the legion officially splits.
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>>54495885
Mot hates that the admech keeps it's secrets from him. That's why he goes about subverting forge worlds to be loyal to him.
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>>54497156
>>54497110
>>54497058
>>54496989
Einchurt goes through a depressed phase after realizing what he's put his Legion through, and with the treacherous words of his closest brother, Gyahdred, still ringing in his head. He slowly cuts himself off more and more from the Imperium and his Legion, before vanishing around 800.M31, his final fate unknown.
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>>54497769
Nice.

But
Star warriors? Really?
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>>54498765
/Knights Stellaris
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>>54497058
Actually, Valorn gets stuck in warp transit. Put bluntly, while thousands of years pass outside, only a couple of months passed for him in the warp. And in all honesty Valorn has no desire for war with the imps at that point. Partially because of the sheer strength of the Imperium and partially because Rokuten's rebellion (and Zel's death of his anon still wants to kill him) has caused him to doubt the validity of the Separatist's beliefs. His original intention was to force a black crusade from the inhabitants of the Maelstrom, mostly because he was confident a united Union would beat them.
>>
>>54499157
lol
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>>54499196
>>
Bump




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