[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [vip] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/tg/ - Traditional Games



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



File: VetTherapy.png (567 KB, 624x445)
567 KB
567 KB PNG
Nic Fit Edition

DISCUSSION:
>Is the format leaning too hard on cantrips?
>What deck do you think is under-represented?
>Evaporating Melody as spicy tech against Marit Lage?

RESOURCES:
>Active Legacy Forums
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/forum.php
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5
>Current Legacy Metagame
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy
http://tcdecks.net/format.php?format=Legacy
>Find/Browse basic lands by their art, by sets, by artists, and more
http://basiclandart.tumblr.com
> Budget lists for newer players
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1me_bqX45Fh_auKaETDcE6GgxWq569qspmBk1VoOtBHU/edit?usp=sharing

READINGS:
>This Week in Legacy (MKM Prague)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-mkm-prague
>Utilizing Cabal Therapy (Old but still good)
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-therapy-session/
>Deck Database (Needs an update)
https://pastebin.com/44w1kkRZ
>>
>Format leaning on cantrips too much?
Yes, ive been preaching this for a while but Brainstorm or Ponder should have been banned a long time ago
>Underrepresented deck
Ties into the first question, but any nonblue deck, itd be nice to see a nonBlue deck other then D&T be good. I guess theres Burn too but even thats kinda bad.
>>
Im just sad that both Modern and Legacy are speeding up in recent years (since around Innistrad the formats have sped up dramatically)
As more and more sets release the formats get faster, Legacy also unfortunately gets fucked over by autistic Custom Commander cards too but thats a whole other discussion. I just miss older Magic where games werent so zerg fast lol Turn 3 you or Turn 4 you with disruption, the curves so low these days theres very little wiggle room.
>>
>>54845883
I definitely think brainstorm needs the axe. Being able to turn a bad hand into a good one with one fetch and brainstorm might be too good, especially because of the top ban. There's just no way a deck can reliably keep up with the card selection blue has unless it outright locks them out or goes under them. Ponder is fine to me, it's slower and it forces you to make more choices with what you do with your turn.
>>
>>54846233
Yeah, banning Brainstorm slows down the combo decks while lifting the struggling non-blue decks up a notch. It'll probably never happen though.
I think I should just build a cube and be done with it all.
>>
>>54845883
Implying Lands or Moon Stompy decks aren't good.

>>54846233
Banning SDT was a mistake, It was one of a very few cards that allowed non-blue decks to get keep up with the the filtering that the cantrip cartel allows blue. I really want wizards to reverse their decision on Top and ban Counterbalance instead to keep the format from warping into BGx for decay to beat countertop in this hypothetical situation. Oh well, it will literally never happen, once wizards bans a card in legacy it stays banned for a long time and possibly never comes off the B&R list.
>>
>>54847183
I feel like both Modern and Legacy are dying. Which is unfortunate as they are ny favorite formats, since Standard rotates too often, Commander has too much autism.
Legacy has just been slowly dying, its nit necessarily the existence of a single card or archetype (though id argue Grixis Delver is too good) rather just general stagnation. Modern on the other hand is raped by the Eldrazi mistake menace, and Tron lands. Both formats are way too fast.
>>
>>54847183

Their reasoning still infuriates me.

>muh slowplay

Because legacy wasn't fast enough. There's no way a format would be fun if it wasn't decided by turn 3, right?
Counterbalance or Terminus would have both been fine to hit, though I'd argue that Terminus was the card that really pushed miracles over the top. Counterbalance strategies had been around for awhile, but the 1 mana get around any creature ability boardwipe was what made the deck impossible for go wide strategies to deal with. Well I guess wizards got what they wanted: true control no longer exists in any competitive form, just stoneforge beatdowns with permission.
I fucking miss top so much. Sure I'm a salty ex-miracles player, but I had been prepared to switch to Nic Fit when Cb/Terminus was banned. It's still playable, but deeding away my libraries still makes me cringe.
>>
Opinions on the mono red storm deck people are brewing on The Source?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31803-Mono-Red-Storm
I've tried it on Cockatrice and it's a blast to play.
>>
>>54845998
yeah man not like channel fireball was a thing ever
>>
>>54847555
Seems fine, It's going to be somewhere between TES and ANT in speed, but seems like it's easier to disrupt. Losing access to black and discard spells is a pretty tough pill to swallow. It seems like the deck would play out like belcher against blue decks in the "here's my hand, can you beat it?" kind of way.
>>
File: 25.jpg (64 KB, 312x445)
64 KB
64 KB JPG
>>54845635
Are there super cheap legacy decks? I've looked a couple times and always run into a brick wall because of specific high-price cards (ex: Cavern of Souls). Is it possible to do a blue/white bird deck using pic related? I've seen it in a list but am doubtful of how it would do against REAL leg decks...
>>
Where were you when cheating slowplayers and autistic minmaxers killed Legacy?
>>
>>54848461

The cheapest viable deck in legacy is probably burn or maybe manaless dredge.
You're right to be doubtful. That enchantment is too unimpactful and slow for the majority of what you would face. Ask yourself this: can my deck survive the onslaught of value from decks like 4c control or getting ground down by punishing fire and recurring ghost quarters?
If you want a decent tribal deck, Slivers is always an option. Otherwise, you can check out this spicy list
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-rebellion-legacy
>>
>>54848461
You can build W/x Parfait for about $650, Nicfit can work without Duels and could probably be build for <$500, Burn can be built for ~$300 for the Fetch based version and ~$100 for Fetchless. There's also a bunch of experimetal decks that can be built for super cheap like the Red Storm deck >>54847495 mentioned or Mono U Prison.
>>
>>54848461
It would get viciously shat on.
You are also running two colors, so you need a full set of duals and fetches, and you are running blue, so you need Force of Will.
Cheapish decks existed the last time I did a deep dive on legacy decks, which was about a year ago now. But they are usually gimmicky combo decks and rely on unprepared opponents. Sacland Tendrils is my favorite.
>>
Does anyone else remember Bridgewalkers?
>>
>>54848461
The Gate (Mono Black Aggro), can be pretty decent and is pretty cheap. We had one of our regulars throw his take on it together a while back. It turn out Dark Ritual, Hymn, Bob, Hippie, LoTV, and Phyrexian Obliterator are still really good cards. The deck can run 0 duals and 0 fetches, basically the only expensive cards are Bobs and LoTV.
>>
>>54848461
The rule for white in legacy is if it aint white, it aint right

(mother, thalia, stoneforge)
>>
>>54848568
Meant to tag >>54847555
>>
File: chinese food.jpg (37 KB, 640x564)
37 KB
37 KB JPG
>>54847495

> true control no longer exists in any competitive form, just stoneforge beatdowns with permission.

lol, people actually believe this?
>>
On a scale of 1-Fucked how viable is Punishing Maverick currently? Thinking about putting it together since I have the majority of the cards.
>>
Yeah, at night I can't sleep
I'm tossin' and turnin'
I still got the candlesticks burnin'
>>
Since there is talk about banning BS here, which may be correct, let's mention another pretty bad offender.
Deathrite Shaman.
>>
File: 1496629137662.jpg (36 KB, 228x228)
36 KB
36 KB JPG
>tfw want to play legacy but don't know what deck I want to play

I don't like that buying a legacy deck is a literal investment but the format is so cool
>>
>>54850423

You can always try out decks on XMage.

I wish it was cheaper too, though.
>>
File: legacy.png (499 KB, 2500x1800)
499 KB
499 KB PNG
>>54850423
Somone made a chart.
>>
File: 17 titles later.jpg (290 KB, 1770x792)
290 KB
290 KB JPG
>>54850435
>>54850473
I'm thinking about buying either deadguy ale (green splash for DRS) or monoU omni-tell

I'm very indecisive and paranoid
>>
So has anyone done tourneys with china men cards? I have a friend who thinks hes going to get away with it, but I'm pretty sure hes gonna get caught. What are your guys experience?
I only use my fakes as fancy edh proxies ;_;
>>
>>54850473
>Pox Control
>Food Chain Griffin
>Tin Fins

Are any of these <$200?
>>
>>54851189
Sorry man, the only viable Legacy deck in that price range is Burn.
>>
>>54851209
Where's Pox Control at? I love Smallpox, Pox, and edict effects, and black control decks are one of the few things I still enjoy in MtG.
>>
>>54851247
Close to $750 because 3-4 LotV
>>
>>54851189
Check MTGtop8 my man.
Pox: $750-2k depending on how much you like reserved list enchantments
Food Chain: $2.5-$3k
Tin Fins: $2.3-$3k

At the $200 price point you pretty much can't build anything that plays duals, fetches, or format staples. You can play fetchless Burn for about $100 and that's really it. If you want to step up to the $500-$750 range you can build Manaless Dredge, Ghost Quarter D&T, No ABUR Dual Nicfit, U/x Parfait, The Gate, Mono Black Reanimator, Mono U Delver, and Budget Pox are some decks that come to mind.
>>
>>54851289
>>54851321
With these prices, I'll just stick to Warhammer.
>>
File: 1493921828022.png (1.59 MB, 1798x1118)
1.59 MB
1.59 MB PNG
>>54851351
Yeah, It looks bad now that those are the prices of decks, but just a few years ago those prices would have been less than half what they are now. You can blame speculators buying out reserve list cards and SCG's general kikery for the ridiculous price spikes legacy and vintage have been seeing recently.
>>
>>54851414
Why does the Reserve List still exist? Sol Ring is proof that a card can have a cheaper, more accessible printing in addition to older and/or more valuable printings.
>>
>>54851189
Pox can be done for less than 200 for sure =)
But be sure to build a good version.
>>
>>54851787
Hm? Do explain. Is it possible without LotV?
>>
>>54845635
>>Is the format leaning too hard on cantrips?
Brainstorm was a mistake, and not banning it is a continual mistake.
>>What deck do you think is under-represented?
Nonblue decks that aren't lands.
>>Evaporating Melody as spicy tech against Marit Lage?
It's cute, but getting UU against Lage decks seems potentially ambitious. Its terrible with known decklists.
>>54851810
>Is it possible without LotV?
Possible? Yes. Good? Probably not.
>>
>>54851787
How do you build Pox for less than $200? Pox typically plays 3-4x LoTV $70-$90 depending on printing and condition. 3x LoTV would put you over the $200 budget alone, not to mention Pox typically play 4x wasteland at $30 a pop and 1-2x Crucible at $65. Just the basic guts of pox would run you over $400, twice the stated budge. I don't see any sub $200 being competitively viable.
>>
>>54851620
It was never based on science, it was based on irrational fear of collectors that spiraled out of control. RL cards would be more expensive if they saw widespread play, but that ship's apparently sailed.
>>
File: TheGate 001 (Large).jpg (120 KB, 1024x768)
120 KB
120 KB JPG
>>54848714
I ran The Gate for a while before Liliana existed, and it was fun.

Ignore the Strips - they're meant to be Wastelands.
>>
>Non-rotating formats getting fucked by Wizards banlist mistakes
Between refusing to ban the actual problem cards and questional bans of non problem cards they have slowly eroded Legacy and Modern.
Brainstorm should have been banned so long ago and Deathrite Shaman pushes the envelope too. Playing without 4 Shamans and 4 Brainstorms is a mistake. Period. Thats not healthy, when you have cards that you get punished because you arent playing them but its the facts, DRS and Brainstorm are so powerful that you are making a mistake when you play a non Grixis/4c Delver deck at a tournament. Also I get the Slow Play ban on Top because there were horrendously slow Control minmaxers and intentionally slow playing cheaters with that card legal but it really hurt format diversity and pushed it even more towards Brainstorm decks.
Modern on the other hand is being destroyed by Wizards refusal to ban Urza Tron lands or at least Eldrazi Temple. It feels awful because these formats are all that interests me anymore in MtG. Standard sucks, is too expensive, rotates too quick and has been in a state of abysmal quality for almost a whole year, Commanders ok but its not a competitive format and it has a lot of autistic players residing in it, and Draft decks are just not my thing, feels like the games are too random and you flood too often.
>>
>>54848345
>but seems like it's easier to disrupt.
On the other hand, it also seems to pick itself up easily when disrupted.

The deck looks very promising imo. It's also pretty cheap and easy to pilot, so it might also be a nice choice for new players looking to get into combo. Overall I have high hopes for it.
>>
>>54852082

I don't think Brainstorm is powerful on its own, it's power is a symptom of Fetchlands, which did a lot of fucking terrible things, most notably made going multi-color way too easy, but also allow Brainstorm to shuffle away dead cards (instead of ruining your later draws as it used to do)

There is zero chance they'll ever ban fetches, though.
>>
>>54852082
>It feels awful because these formats are all that interests me anymore in MtG. Standard sucks, is too expensive, rotates too quick and has been in a state of abysmal quality for almost a whole year, Commanders ok but its not a competitive format and it has a lot of autistic players residing in it, and Draft decks are just not my thing, feels like the games are too random and you flood too often.
Give Pauper a try. Can be played competitively, most archetypes are viable, you can brew and still stand a chance of winning.
It's no Legacy but it's better than nothing.
>>
>>54849034
Yes, Control babbies are NEVER satisfied unless their deck is undisputed king of the respective format.
>>
lulz, what's going on here?
is this a false flag legacy thread create by modern general?
the amount of butthurt is strong with this thread
>>
File: ichorid.jpg (25 KB, 252x356)
25 KB
25 KB JPG
>>54845635
the best Therapy partner reporting in
>>
>>54859755
Lately every format is having issues
>Standard
Bannings galore and extremely linear strategies now that the bannings are over
>Modern
Destroyed by Urza Lands, Only way to beat Tron is to zerg Aggro
>Legacy
Top ban killed diversity. DRS is a must play, if you arent playing him you are making a mistake. Formats dominated by Grixis/4c Delver
Contrary to popular belief you can love a format and still dislike the direction its going or the state of it
>>
>>54860072
How did top ban kill diversity? Before the ban, if you weren't playing miracles you were making a mistake
>>
>>54860235
Miracles should have gotten nerfed but Top wasnt the card to do so. The Top ban killed off so many decks like Painter, Nic Fit, DDFT, and so on. Non Blue decks simply cant keep up with the card selection of Brainstorm without Top and so now without Top you absolutely have to play Blue. Theres only two viable non blue decks left, Lands and Death and Taxes (Burn is not viable). Lands suffers from being $3500 and rising too so dont expect to see it much in paper.
>>
>>54860278
monoB dephts reanimator, G/B turbo dephts and W/B bomberman are good too.
>>
>>54860342
Only one deck you mentioned there is viable, GB Depths, and its just a faster more combo based version of Lands.
>>
File: litany of the bothered.jpg (107 KB, 613x533)
107 KB
107 KB JPG
>>54860072
>Standard
>Bannings galore and extremely linear strategies now that the bannings are over
standard hasn't been good since 2015, man.

>Modern
>Destroyed by Urza Lands, Only way to beat Tron is to zerg Aggro
i mean maybe. personally i think the format simply doesn't have enough quality reactive spells and would benefit from the inclusion of swords to plowshares, force of will and daze.

>Legacy
>Top ban killed diversity. DRS is a must play, if you arent playing him you are making a mistake. Formats dominated by Grixis/4c Delver
top ban was retarded and DRS has always been the best creature. i mean either way my archetype is good when those decks are good so i'm fine but i really think the top ban was a bit much. should've been counterbalance imo, hinders miracles and doesn't outright kill all the other SDT decks.

>Contrary to popular belief you can love a format and still dislike the direction its going or the state of it
i only really enjoy legacy. i tolerate modern because modern night is the only night i have off and i haven't been going lately because i'm deathly bored of it.
>>
>>54860278
What about loam, eldrazi, reanimator, elves, and turbo depths? Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more. The decks you listed that suffered from the top ban were each a tiny portion of the meta, sure it sucks that we lost those but it's not like they were champions of the format promoting deck diversity. And about brainstorm, personally I don't have a problem with a lack of color diversity, all that matters is archetype diversity. Combo decks, aggro decks, and control decks can all play brainstorm, and they all win in different ways. Cantrips don't actually win, they just reduce variance and, in my opinion, increase the skill ceiling.
>>
>>54860411
>Standard hasnt been good since 2015
Which is a shame since Standard can and should be the best format, with games going long and intricate decisions, theres a reason pros love Standard, because your decisions in a game matter more and you arent dying turn 3 or 4, but even Pros have been complaining for the last year about Standard.

Modern would just benefit from the banning of Urza lands, the format has amazing reactive cards and decks but they cant beat Tron and its insane topdecks, Tron pushes the format towards linear aggro because you have to go under them to consistenly beat them

In Legacy the Top ban was and wasnt a mistake, I get the reasoning they gave, it makes sense and it does knock Miracles down a few pegs but it should have been with a few other bans too most notably DRS or Brainstorm. I know people love playing with Brainstorm but people loved playing with Gush in Vintage and Pod in Modern. People love playing with broken cards, Brainstorm in particular because it helps solve one of the worst problems in Magic, variance, flooding out/mana screw, and mulligans, but at the end of the day when a card is too good it needs to go.
>>
>>54860521
>theres a reason pros love Standard
yeah, the reason is that standard is the format of the pro tour, and the pro tour is the only competitions where you can make the real money.
>>
>>54860429
Looking at the top decks on top8 and Goldfish its clear that Grixis/4c Delver are far and away the best deck. They are 16 and 11 percent respectively of the online meta, Storm the 3rd best is only 5% in comparison.
Brainstorm is a fun card its reduces variance but at the end of the day its too hard for non Brainstorm decks to even have a chance of beating. Even Eldrazi which was slated as the Blue killer with its t1 chalices is very far from Tier 1, Elves is lower then Burn in metashare.
>>
>>54860623
Pros didnt like Modern pro tours when they were around, and many pros have been vocally against both the Modern and Legacy Pro Tour coming back. The reason being is that these formats are high variance, its harder to metagame properly due to the openness of the formats, and games can be decided by one or two decisions.
>>
>>54860629
Miracles was like 30% dude. And as I said, I don't give a shit if every deck is blue and plays brainstorm, as long as they play differently (like storm v delver)
>>
>>54860719
Oh well different tastes for different people
>>
File: 0807171134.jpg (2.52 MB, 3264x2448)
2.52 MB
2.52 MB JPG
posting my Nic-Fit deck
>>
I lost to a deck playing some spicy plays by using Academy Rector to tinker up a Cruel Reality and an Overwhelming Splendor from the new set. Looked like an ordinary Stoneblade deck until he did this shit.

9/10 was quite impressed.
>>
>>54861133
>33
Nice pix
You should make a pod Deck too.
>>
>>54845635
Bumping because I've enjoyed the emphasis on deck types recently
>>
My meta is filled with fair decks. I can't remember the last time I saw somebody playing a combo of any kind. I need something that absolutely dumpsters these shitters trying to play fair magic. The spicier the better, I don't care if it's fair or unfair
>>
>>54862790
How many of the decks are blue?
>>
how do i find people to place legacy with that wont look down on me for playing a 100% proxy deck
>>
>>54862790
If they're mostly nonblue shitters, Belcher. Otherwise, Stax.
>>
File: 1488849045346.png (260 KB, 620x640)
260 KB
260 KB PNG
>>54849413
Anyone?
>>
>>54862859
play with people who also don't have legacy decks and also want to proxy

also legacy has a small enough fanbase that... unless the dudes you're playing with are assholes or you are going to a real-deal tournament... they should be happy to have someone to play with (even if they are using proxies)
>>
>>54862790
Blue light meta: Belcher or PSI
Blue heavy meta: TES/ANT, Big Red, RG Lands.
>>
>>54845998
It was imminent, eventually as time goes on people pick up on efficient cards.

>>54845635
Honestly my gripes are with the fact that certain deck can win turn one like Reanimator, which hurts non blue decks. Force of Will doesn't really police a format at times as much as make everyone run blue to protect themselves.
>>
>>54851620
Wizards doesn't want to go back on a promise, and at this point where they are trying to save standard they are going back on the RL.
>>
File: s1310.jpg (333 KB, 1000x1383)
333 KB
333 KB JPG
>>54851163
Tell you friend to only use proxies that look decent; Some are great, some are terribad. First rule, always age you proxies, never play them NM, It attracts lots of suspicion if people are seeing super minty duels or money cards. Start by going over them with a Mr. clean magic eraser or #0000 steel wool LIGHTLY to kill the overly shiny, waxy coating they have (too much and they'll look fake as shit, might take some practice to get it right). Age the cards by shuffling them with old, dirty, nasty legit cards and rubbing fine, rub some very lightly moistened potting soil on them. Do this a lot. I mean it, A LOT. Your looking to get them to look between LP and MP to make them convincing, your try to get them to look close to pic related. Use a fine tipped permanent marker to emulate the black dots/smudges you see. Very sparing use you thumb nail to ding the edges, especially near corners and mark that edge very lightly with the marker (you should only do this 1-2 times unless you are going to try to make the card look HP like you would with power). After that sleeve those puppies up in KCM perfect fits and either Matte Dragonshields or Matte Eclipses. Never let your opponets handle cards out of sleeves, the texture is a dead giveaway. This is what I've done and I've been running decks that are 20%-50% fake for over a year, played too many FNM to remember and 6 competitive REL events between modern and legacy with no problems.




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.