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>studded leather
>>
fuck everything your about
>>
>>54846833
I miss quests
>>
Historically studded leather armor isnt even a thing
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>>54846935
Yeah things that didn't exist in our world could never exist in a made up fantasy world
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>>54846963

this is bait
>>
>>54846935
I don't recall fireballs, dragons, or sword-granting lake-ladies either. The players don't care, it helps flesh out the "light armor" category.
>>
>>54846833
Definitely did not exist in our world nope.
And the earth is a half sphere, with only the western hemisphere on it, the east is merely fantasy.
>>
"studded leather armor" was first referenced in D&D... there was no such thing. Most of the time what is mistaken for studded leather is a brigandine. A brigandine is made of small steel or iron plates sandwiched between layers of leather or canvas and riveted in place.
>>
>>54847167
>they call it something different therefore it didn't exist.
Wouldn't it have been nicer to say:
>"Studded leather armor" is the word D&D uses for armor like brigandine and similar armor types, where tiny steel plates are riveted between two layers of leather.
>>
>>54846935
I hear that cloth armor worked just as well. Never tested that claim though.
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>>54847076

That's brigandine, which is what Gygax or one of his buddies mistook for studded leather. It's not even leather that the plates are attached to in this example. That's probably linen.
>>
>>54847384
Why the hell do you think that they "mistook" it for studded leather?
Why couldn't they just have called it studded leather, because it was simpler to remember and more descriptive (this is a roleplaying game after all) than brigandine?
>>
>>54846833
>>54847076
That's chinese brigandine.
http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com.br/2015/03/cotton-and-brigandine-armour-of-ming.html
>It is a misconception that Chinese only used the so-called faux brigandine — garment with the outward appearance of a brigandine armour, but without metal plates attached to the rivets from the inside — as military uniform or ceremonial armour.


Chinese studded leather armor was this one:
http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com.br/2014/11/leather-armour-of-ming-dynasty.html
>This armour is made of cowhide, cut into multiple bands and treated with tung oil, then joined together with studs (turning it into a studded leather armour). Its spaudlers can be further reinforced with cow horn plates.
>Yue Bing Kui Jia was considered the best among leather armours.
>>
>>54847427
>>54847384
Oh so studded leather refers to steel rivets without any steel behind the rivets?
I thought since the expression was made up by gygax that it didn't refer to any actual thing in particular.
Oh well.
Either way both exist.
>>
>>54847316

It doesn't really need to be tested. Cloth armor was what pretty much anyone in the late middle ages who couldn't afford a breastplate would use. If leather were as good or better, they would have used it.
>>
>>54846833
>ringmail
>>
>>54847426

Oh, did they also make longswords one-handed and call arming swords short swords because it's simpler to remember and more descriptive?

I love D&D but their terminology is garbage.
>>
>>54847511
Yes. Cloth was pretty good actually. technically, rogues should probably be wearing that and not leather....but it doesn't look cool enough

I'm ok with that, as long as it's believable. I hate realism but I love believability. Shitty fucking stitched ringmail, or leather with tiny studs on it being effective is NOT believable.
>>
>>54847427

>joined together with studs

That shit is basically leather brigandine. It's not a leather vest with studs in it. It's still not what D&D portrayed.
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>>54847471
>Either way both exist.

Leather clothing with metal studs unbacked by anything *aren't armor*, though. They're just decorative and won't actually do much to protect you.
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>>54847303
>they called everything by the name other people use
>except this one time when they totally meant the right thing but just decided to call it something else
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>>54846882
Same. Hopefully they'll be back here soon.
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>>54847574
That armor has only leather and studs, no armor plates behind. DEFINITELY NOT a brigandine.
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>>54847303
brigandine exists in D&D
>>
>low energy b8 thread
>replying to this retards samefaggotry
neck yourselves
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>>54847547
>cloth doesn't look cool

U fuckin wot m8?
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>>54847303
except a brigandine would not be considered light armor. in terms of protection is more like full plate.
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>>54846833
It's a brigantine, man. Chill out.

The real question is......Bastard Swords.....what are they?
>>
>>54850506
a sword that is between an arming sword and a long sword, typically with the handle of a longsword, but more of an arming sword length of blade, used specifically by englishmen, probably to confuse the french who would say "whats the point of using a hand and half, stupid english?"
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>>54850469
>dork in a bathrobe
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>>54850469
that does not look cool.
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>>54850521
>Hand-and-a-Half

Why anyone ever think this even exists?

"I want to hold this sword with one hand then a few fingers of my other hand!"

>We could just add another inch or so to the handle so you could fit the whole hand....

"SHUT UP AND MAKE IT POINTLESSLY AWKWARD, KNAVE!"
>>
>>54850557
it does exist. the handle is long enough to accommodate 2 hands, but the blade is short enough to be wielded with just one hand, if you want. Hand and a Half is a colloquialism, and damn it you're fucking trolling me. fuck.
>>
>>54850609
Half a hand of trolling, Victorian Englishisms are all sorts of dumb and bad and some idiots took it seriously is my point....oh god those TV specials growing up......

But yeah, Oakeshott or fuck off
>>
>>54846963
Studded leather wouldn't protect against anything. There would be no reason for it to exist in a fantasy world.
>>
>>54846882
>>54848632
quests still exist. Just go to their board.
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>>54850685
>Studded leather wouldn't protect against anything.
Neither would fighters, but there they are.
>>
Which ones offers better protection: Brigandine or chainmail?
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>>54850469
guy looks blazed as shit
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>>54846833
Studs and leather
>>
Sulawesi leather armor.

The Indonesian tribesmen actually run around armored in leather...and armed with Blunderbuss.
>>
Even though it isn't historically accurate, studded leather WOULD provide slightly more protection than leather, simply because slashing weapons could catch or slide along the rivets instead of cutting deeper. It would depend on the angle of attack and the pattern/distribution.density of the rivets, and it wouldn't be better ENOUGH, but it would be strictly superior.
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>>54846833
I don't even care about your actual tired bait post, but that is not how to use Carlos you fuck. Carlos is for puns. Next time at least use a smug anime girl like a normal toilet person, instead of the uncontrollable diarrhoeaman you are now.

I'll even give you one to use in the future, because I'm just such a nice fucking guy.
>>
>>54851148
I think the bigger advantage would be the slight chance for arrows to impart most of their force on a stud or two.
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>>54851148
Yeah, I'm going to need a source for such a stupid claim.
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>>54851416
Sauce for what? That it didn't exist? Or that adding extra protection to armor makes it more protective, even marginally? Studded leather could theoretically range from a few studs near vital organs, to near-plate level protection with pointless gaps between them. It's not a GOOD design by any means, but as long as it didn't compromise the intergrity of the original leather armor to begin with, it can't feasibly be anything but theoretically better in specific circumstances. Unless you are facing some sort of giant magnet monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2AYg90YoYY

This is the only video i have of even somewhat practical testing of terribly made "studded leather", and you can note that even this shoddy LARP gear occasionally lessens the efficacy of attacks due to the studs.
>>
>>54850950
Likely Brigandine, though chainmail was very very good armor. It was one of the longest serving armor designs in history for a reason... because it fucking worked.
>>
>>54851416
>>54851454
There are also the cases of Chinese studded leather armor and studded cotton armor, both being worn as practical battlefield armor.

The leather/cotton alone provide most of the protection, the studs are used to held them in place.
>>
>>54851454
Mate. Look. Just think for a moment about why you would even make "studded armor" which is presumably just a carpet of little metal pins on a cloth or leather backing.

First off you need a ton of rivets, buttons, rinky dink connectors that connect to nothing. Why? Surely not to actually fight with. The amount of protection given is so negligible that it's a waste of time. Riveting shit isn't something you just do for fun. It's time consuming work and rivets that don't hold anything in place are absolutely pointless. Why not connect metal plates to the jacket with those rivets instead? Or sections of hardened leather? Where on earth are you finding some giant asshole who has a ton of studs and nothing else, and then proceeds to make bad armor out of it?
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>>54852189
As noted by >>54852044 the rivets could be used to hold together cloth/leather to begin with, but while its incredibly impractical, that doesn't make it a complete non-factor. The point isn't that its accurate or particularly useful, but that any additional armor, even sporadic, provides strictly superior defense, as long as it doesn't compromise mobility or structural integrity.
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>>54852189
In China, apparently.

Oh and in India, with their Chilta hazar masha (Coat of ten thousand nails).
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>>54848704
Then studded leather armor is basically just...>>54847681
notarmor as in leather stips held together by studs.
*shrug*

>>54847545
Did they? I think they did.
>>
>>54852044
>>54852243
>>54852278
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPIUHpkK88
>>
>>54847384
>which is what Gygax or one of his buddies mistook for studded leather
No, it was what the historians who wrote the books Gygax and friends used for their research mistook for studded leather. Hewitt, Ashdown, and Stone. They were once the go-to authorities on historic arms and armor even though it was eventually proven they got a lot of shit wrong.

D&D was created long before the internet, you can't blame Gygax if whatever local libraries he used for research didn't have Blaire's work on the shelves to set him straight.
>>
I purposely keep studded leather armor in all of my games because I know it triggers autists. No, it's not brigandine. It's leather armor with little metal studs on it.
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>wearing armor
laughingbarbarians.jpg
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>studded leather
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>>54850868
You know that's not the same. Quests on /qst/ don't get anywhere NEAR the involvement and traffic they used to get on /tg/ even when you remove the shitposters who came only to say "quests get out reeee" or the people who posted only once.

/qst/ is a fucking gulag that literally no-one who it was supposed to be made for, actually wanted or asked for.
>>
>>54856494
Oh boo hoo hoo. I'm sure there are posters who really like Pokémon or MLP who didn't like being shunted off to their own containment boards, but that's what happens when a topic gets big enough that it drowns out a good chunk of discussion on its original board. You should have done your part to dial back the autism when it was growing if you didn't want to be exiled.

As anons have said in previous shitty meta threads, just fucking buy some cheap ad space if you think your board is so dead. You are NEVER coming back here, so get over it.
>>
>>54856494
It wasn't made for questfags it was made for the rest of us so we could browse /tg/ without seeing thirty different quest threads that are only tangentially related to /tg/
>>
>>54856602
>>54856573
The average quest content on /tg/ before the creation of /qst/ was 10%. One in TEN threads was a quest, or quest-related. And we can all see that their banishment to /qst/ has NOT resulted on 10% more quality threads on the board; it has resulted in 10% more shitposting, for example: OP.

Quests have less posters and less involvement, which means less fun. /tg/ has more pointless, low-quality threads. EVERYONE has suffered from the creation of /qst/!
>>
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>>54856693
>The average quest content on /tg/ before the creation of /qst/ was 10%. One in TEN threads was a quest, or quest-related. And we can all see that their banishment to /qst/ has NOT resulted on 10% more quality threads on the board; it has resulted in 10% more shitposting, for example: OP.

don't prolapse your ass pulling these numbers out of it, dude
>>
>>54856693
Incorrect. Quest threads were no-quality no-content threads 100% of the time. /qst/ is full of people who actually wanted quest threads; if there's no one in there then it goes to show how many people *actually* like quest threads.
>>
>>54856802
>no-quality
That is a highly subjective metric. I admit there were bad quests, but they died as quickly as they were made
>no-content
COMPLETE bullshit. Quests, by DESIGN have to have a constant stream of new content! There was more original about the most unimaginative quest on the board, than there is in yet another 'stat me', 'wat do', 'that guy', 'excuse me commissar', or '[Insert complaint about another an aspect of DnD or another setting]' thread!

>>54856795
I made the count myself for one of the many threads spent bitching about quests. I repeated it three days later and then a week after that. With a variance of one or two threads, quests maintained a 10% level.
>>
>>54856693
Why would banning quests cause an increase in on-topic posting? It's not like questposters would suddenly become fa/tg/uys. /tg/'s userbase didn't spontaneously grow when quests got exiled.

It's like saying /v/ should have improved when generals got sent to /vg/. /v/ didn't improve at all, it was still the same mix of shitposting and occasionally on topic threads, there was just no general threads clogging up the mix.
>>
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>>54846833
catalog looks like this now
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>nothe wanting armored BDSM gear in your game

Shame.
>>
>>54856882
>you're numbers have no source
>here's my source: me
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>>54856882
10%? That means one in ten threads died to a quest. That's unacceptable.
>>
>>54856896
The quests would ensure that the shitposts get pushed off the board more quickly at least.

>>54856938
What fucking source do you want then? There isn't a fucking accredited agency monitoring and recording the content and quality of posts on a mesoamerican cave painting forum!
>>
>>54856983
Why is it better for on-topic shitposts to get pushed off while off-topic quests remain? /tg/ is for /tg/, not quests. I'd rather take /tg/ shitposts over /qst/ any day because I prefer /tg/ shitposts to /qst/.

>>>/qst/
>>>/qst/
>>>/qst/
>>
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>>54856983
>What fucking source do you want then? There isn't a fucking accredited agency monitoring and recording the content and quality of posts on a mesoamerican cave painting forum!
According to 4plebs, which automatically archives every thread created on /tg/, during the one-week period before /qst/ was created, 8.6% of all threads created during that week were quest threads.
>>
>>54857017
Shit is shit. It doesn't matter if it's 'yours' or someone else's. The only measure that quests are 'off-topic' any more than threads which add literally nothing to the board is some arbitrary definition you set!

>>54857071
So my numbers were off by 1.4% but the fact that there were even FEWER quests in the time period than I counted only goes to further prove my point that the argument of "The entire front page was full of quests!" is bullshit!
>>
>>54857017
This. /tg/'s bait threads can be fun, and more importantly are /tg/.

Why are some people so butthurt quests got removed? You got an entire damn board to yourself.
>>
>>54857156
>Why are some people so butthurt they got forcibly re-located to a shitty and under-served ghetto?
>It's a whole town all to themselves!
>>
>>54857145
The fact quests are not a card game, board game, miniatures war game, or role playing game means they're off-topic.
>>
>>54857182
They're not under served there, they get the same functionality as any 4chan board. It's not a ghetto either, they have the exact same features as any 4chan board.
>>
>>54857193
>quests are not a role playing game

But you're literally playing the role of a fictional character?

Does this mean discussion Everyone is John threads should be banned on /tg/, since that game involves multiple players controlling the same character?
>>
>>54857182
Why do you act like you have some sort of right to be on /tg/ and derail it with loli harem quest #12083780?
>>
>>54846882
/qst/
>>
>>54857182
You know I think you are just butt-hurt that your shitty quest isn't getting traction. Maybe it's because it's a shitty quest anon. Another stupid anime quest with >what do. Isn't going to draw people anymore.
>>
>it is yet another thread where questfags prove why they were the worst posters on /tg/
>people still haven't learned to ignore their delusional drivel about how they're being oppressed by antiquestfag illuminati and their mod goons

If you're gonna bitch about your containment board could you do so on >>>/qa/ or at least make your own meta-thread instead of taking over perfectly fine regular shitposting threads?
>>
>>54857182
every board is a shitty and under served ghetto. you have nothing to complain about except you're mad /qst/ is dying, like most internet fads. it too will fade away while we on /tg/ will continue to shitpost about PHB rangers, wh40k being stupid yet enjoyable, and pathfinder being for weebs and furries
>>
>>54857240
shhh.... don't bring facts and logic into an argument with anti-questfags, it scares and confuses them.
>>
>>54857370
Lots of /tg/ regulars miss having quests on the board, but the mod always deletes the metathread even though Hiro tells him not to.
>>
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>>54857437
>lots of /tg/ regulars

oh shit well i should listen to them, just look at their post count, their well made forum signature, and the multiple gold stars under their username
>>
Tbh 4chan should only have 4 boards.
>/a/ - animation & comics both western and eastern
>/ad/ - adult (porn both 2D and 3D variations)
>/g/ - games (basically merge /qst/, /tg/, /v/, /vg/, /vr/, and /vp/ together to form one massive storm of autistic shitposting
>/b/ - random i.e. whatever other shit you've
>>
>>54857482
this post gave me encephalitis
>>
>>54857437
A lost of older fa/tg/uys also miss times when you didn't have to fill out chaptchas, post timers weren't longer than 100 years war, and there were regular porn dumps on this board but you don't see them constantly posting about how they wish to return to those days.
>>
>>54847547
>leather with tiny studs on it being effective is NOT believable.
I was under the belief that the studs kept in place metal plates underneath the leather? Also
>>
>>54857389

It was a dumb idea to split the board because of a handful of threads that were only of interest to people already on /tg/.
>>
>>54857145
Quest threads lasted as long as generals, comparing it to total threads does little. I don't think it was a problem, but with how long they last compared to a lot of other threads, they would take up more than 8% of the front page in average.
>>
>>54857775
Fuck off. Quests only came to /tg/ in numbers after they were banned from every other board, and we weren't interested in dealing with your filth.
>>
>>54857240
They're not playing a game. Improve theater is not a role playing game either.
>>
>>54857437
Prove it.
>>
>>54857240
>But you're literally playing the role of a fictional character?

Is acting relevant to /tg/? no

performance checks dont count
>>
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>>54850950
brigandine, they would be worn with a chain shirt beneath them, along with an aketon
>>
>>54857437
No we don't, and the mod deletes the metathread because it's always reliably reported for being off topic. You took one quote from Hiro and ran with it to excuse shitting up the board with your stupid fucking metaposting for an entire year.
>>
>>54846882
https://fiction.live/stories
>>
There's a site specifically for quests, come and join us!
>>
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>half plate
>Halfling staff sling
>copper-silver-gold-platinum currency, no variations
>urethral cork
>antagonist is a demon/lich/dragon
>Vancian magic
>horses only, no elephants or rhinos

Truly you am de gayest nigga
>>
>>54858931
>rhinos
unless you want every session to be nonstop metal boxes jokes I highly suggest you don't
>>
>>54847042
Armor is supposed to be mundane though, D&D (which is what the "studded armor" and "ring mail" memes were largely popularized by) even explicitly distinguishes between mundane stuff like armor and magical enchantments that make it more effective. Unless D&D has completely different laws of physics (in which case humans would never have come into existence), studded armor wouldn't be any better than regular leather armor, so it doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>54858931
>urethral cork
The what now
>>
>>54860392
>in which case humans would never have come into existence
>in a genre where direct creaton is basically the norm

You went full retard.
>>
This has been my most successful bait thread yet.
>>
>>54861774
No it isn't.
>>
>>54846833
Leathered stud
>>
>>54846833
>Not wanting tour leather armor to come in Chad
>>
>>54866029
How do you know?
>>
>>54860392
Putting any account if extra armor, even in the form of nigh worthless studs, increases the efficacy of said armor, even if it's inefficient and negligible. A single bullet sized protected spot is still more effective than lacking it.
>>
>>54867232
Plus pushing a needle through 30 layers of linen or a 5mm thick leather (to stitch them together) must be damn hard. Using rivets will undoubtedly save quite a bit of hard work and time.
>>
>>54847042
You'd let martials do or have anything that a fit dude from your town couldn't do or have? Disgusting swine.




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