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So, Emperor of Mankind. He is a complete and utter unfeeling asshole in the current canon, but I think this grossly oversimplifies his character and makes him kinda boring. It is one thing when his personality remains ambiguous, his plans mysterious and his acts great and it is completely different thing when he is portrayed as totally unsympathetic douche who seemingly cares about nothing and no one. I get that he is the ultimate being and all, but can we have just a little bit of conflict in him? I mean he used to be so full of compassion, he couldn`t even kill Horus the moment he saw him, but I bet now they will re-write that iconic scene into something horrific and unrecognizable. Hell, I don`t even like the Big E that much, I just want him to be more of a complex character, I think the fucking Emperor of all people deserves it.

So tell me about the Emperor of Mankind, /tg/. Do you like the current canon? What would you change? What is your Emperor like?
>>
fire ADB hire Bruva Alfabusa
declare TTS as the new canon
>>
What a lot of whiners fail to realize is that the current 40k setting is one where even for those who DO feel things, they must sacrifice everything, even their own emotions, for the sake of their own or humanity's survival.

This is why you have things like Celestine losing a part of her soul every time she resurrects, or characters having to suppress empathy or mercy in the name of the Imperium.

The Emperor is a god who has transcended past the point of "needing to suppress his emotions" and has actually done it outright. He does care about humanity and humanity's survival, but if this means he has to be cruel to a few trillion human lives so that the future will arrive, he will do it without any remorse or hesitation. Because he is a god.

The only reason the characters are surprised by this in M41 is because when he was still in human form, he at least made a show of pretending he cared. Now that he is a warp god anchored to a corpse, he has no time or need for that bullshit.
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I'm totally fine with the Emperor being an unfeeling asshole- if anything it makes sense considering his history. How many people, civilizations, hell entire worlds can you watch die while being immortal for thousands of years before you eventually become distanced from your own humanity.

I get the impression that people don't like this portrayal of the Emperor because they feel that it makes the traitors more sympathetic, but it doesn't. The Emperor being a sociopath still doesn't make any of the traitors' rebellions justifiable. Not Horus, nor Agron, Lorgar, any of them.
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>>54852279
Magnus Did Nothing Wrong considering that important need-to-know info was kept from him
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>>54852364
Honestly I don't mind the Emperor being a cold unfeeling asshole, I just want him to be a COMPETENT cold unfeeling asshole.
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>>54852056
>Do you like the current canon?
No.
>What would you change?
I'd give him some humanity back. He needs to be a monster, certainly, and an asshole. You can't be ruler of the Imperium, or any conqueror, really, without some element of the callous. But he also needs to be something that people could want to follow, and there needs to be some degree of connection between him and the individual, particularly the Primarchs and Malcador (and we see far too little of his relationship with Malcador, given that the two of them even appear to be friends), because Horus as the rebellious son, and King's portrayal, WORKS, in a way that the current canon does not. Especially because the way that the current canon goes about it is a disaster that leaves him looking like an incompetent fool, while at the same time repeatedly saying that no, he's actually really competent, except for this time and this time and this time and this time and this time (etc.).
>What is your Emperor like?
I would imagine him as the very best and very worst of humanity. In 30K, anyway. By 40K I can more readily accept that his emotion and compassion will have withered away, and he continues on with grit and refusal to surrender. You can't sit in agony for 10K years and not lose something that makes you you.
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>>54852056
It is not that I dont like new cannon, I dont like the road that GW and BL are taking. Evry mystery gone. In few years we will have fully flashed out 2 missing legions
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>>54852433
>In few years we will have fully flashed out 2 missing legions
I wonder if they appear in 30k or 41k
>>
It's still too early to give judgement on BL Emps, at least until Terra.

Anyway according to ADB he is putting the needs of mankind as a whole above the individual which is fitting with a lot of the Imperium's mindset
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>>54852279
People don't like it because it's change from the early days of 40k, not understanding that the "emperor wuvs you" stories are meant to be deliberately ambiguous propaganda of questionable historical accuracy.

The current Emperor is basically Dr. Manhattan, but with the goal of having the greater human race ascend to total domination of the galaxy, defeating both Chaos and Xenos.
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>>54852218
I like how current fluff of 40K turned slowly back to it's Dune origins. First you had the setting inspiration from first books, and now they are completing the circle with Emperor being more and more like Leto II
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>>54852627

Except Leto II did have human connections with whatshername, didn't he? It's been a long while since I read Dune, but I distinctly remember him being still human underneath all the bugs.
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>>54852426
This.
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One of the divinations from the DH book stands out to me: "Men must die so Man may live."
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>>54852056
there has been hints right from the start of HH( mechanicum if i remember correctly) that in the end he is just a warlord.
by purpose as the cabal said later (legion) - to transform humanity into a final weapon against the primordial annihilatior (chaos).

so the rest of all aliens can live in kumbaya bliss for all eternity.
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>>54852426
I agree
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>>54853593
He may be a guy called Eugenius Archon.
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>>54852660

This. Leto never stopped being human. The God Emperor is always treated as being in a league of his own. Guilliman's current hang up is that he can't reconcile himself with the God Emperor's true nature. Instead of a humane father to Guilliman, He is a divine father to all of humankind.
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>>54852210
Please do
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>>54854121
Isn`t it a little bitchy on the Guilliman`s part? I mean dude spent 10 fucking thousand years paralyzed in constant agony, while doing some warp-shit and shining with light all across the galaxy. Of course he changed, hell he would have changed in 10k years even without all the Golden Throne shit.
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>>54852210
>>54854501
This

Also
>Daily reminder
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>>54854744
Why is he so hysterically praised on 1d4chan? Is it ironic?
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>>54855505
If you read the new article it says a lot of people hate him and it has to do with him being an enormous chaosfag who projects his actual irl daddy issues onto the Emperor

Honestly what I think it is is the fact it's a wiki. The Base article saying he's great may have been written 5+ years ago when he was considered neat and before the Night Lords trilogy was (rightfully) re-evaluated as the Edge Lords & Waifus Wish Fulfilment Saga
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>>54852056
>Do you like the current canon?
I do.
>What would you change?
Change his lack of full commitment in final fight not out of mercy for Horus but something else.
>What is your Emperor like?
Basically God-Emperor of Dune who's a benevolent supreme entity yet comes out as an asshole due to operating on entirely different level from baseline humanity.
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>>54855592
Makes sense, but that article is just cringy. Was it written by ADB himself? I mean, just read this shit.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Aaron_Dembski-Bowden

>A younger, even sexier version of Dan Abnett with a bigger dick and a smaller word count. Member of the Bald Brotherhood of Awesome 40K Writers, also known as the Bald Bards of Steel.
>Aaron Dembski-Bowden is also well-liked by Daemonhunter lore masters
>He's also pretty well-liked by Ultramarine players for making them cool again.
>In fact he's pretty good at making all factions awesome but imperfect. See, for example, his portrayal of Angron. While Angron is indeed a dreaded unstoppable killing machine, he's also a pitiful character who blames others for his problems.

Etc, etc, etc...
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>>54852387
This is the real problem.
When The Emperor was portrayed as giving a shit, his failings could be chalked up to the irony of mankind's greatest being felled by his very humanity.
If he's an absolute asshole that doesn't give a single shit about his creations, he instead turns into a drooling retard.
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>>54855505
Because he writes good stories, at least in BL standards. And he gets so much shit in /tg/ that he actually comes out as an underdog.
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>>54855629
It doesn`t even look like an article, for fucks sake. Just wall of text praising this hack.
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>>54855629
Bear in mind that it was originally written during a different time, when he hadn't gone full George Lucas and people were somewhat less restrained in their writing styles.
1d4chan's older articles as a whole are a time capsule to the shit people used to think was acceptable writing.
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>>54855638
Its almost like... He actually does have good feelings!
>>54855629
Either the man himself or a Bolter & Cucksword fanboy wrote it years ago and it wasn't actually updated since except for
>PS he's actually shit and has daddy issues t. Every /tg/ poster ever
There's a lot of cringe on 1d4chan because, again, it can be edited by anyone and has literally 0 oversight
It wouldn't surprise me if ADB or an associate actually did write it as he regularly hangs around Bolter and Cucksword and posts his personal fanfiction headcanon and presents it as objective fact. Needless to say, its almost always edgelord chaosfag bullshit
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>>54855638
>If he's an absolute asshole that doesn't give a single shit about his creations, he instead turns into a drooling retard.
He gives a shit about his creations. He wouldn't invest so much power in them otherwise. I think you just want Emperor to hug them and shit.
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>>54855655
I guess, but shouldn`t articles in wikis at least try to be impartial? This article doesn`t really give me useful information, just a whole page of some creepy ADB-worshipping.
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>>54855675
>He wouldn't invest so much power in them otherwise
I think we have different definitions of giving a shit.
I keep my car well maintained because I want it to keep working, but I don't class that as giving a shit.
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>>54852426
This. A lot of the Emperor's actions regarding the Traitor Prinarchs make sense if he as a bastard of a father who still cares, but isn't good enough at being one to give them what they really need. This. Cold and callous shit they've been pushing just makes his previous actions look retarded though, like a bad Saturday morning cartoon villain.
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>>54855761
Yeah you want Emperor to consider his lab grown tools of conquest as sons. Well he doesn't. There is no reason to; they are ultimately tools to be rendered obsolete. Fucking Emperor himself wants to be obsolete so humanity no longer needs him.
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>>54855886
>There is no reason to
I can think of one reason to at least acknowledge they aren't automatons. Some small event called the Horus Heresy, might have heard of it.
Him being a shitty father explains his shit parenting, and a remnant of humanity explains his stupid decisions.
Him being a cold callous asshole makes him not grasping their blatant emotional issues, and the actions that resulted, pants on head retarded.
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Everything wrong with the 30K writers massive stupidity plunge can be summed up with the Burning of Prospero.

Russ's OG character is basically Conan, a Dour Barbarian whose personal ethos is Loyalty and a huge distrust of Magic.

Magnus was your quintessential Wizard, whose Arrogance blinds him to the powers he dabbles with.

After 30K Russ is now this super genius hidden Pysker who just pretends to be a Barbarian and Magnus "Did nothing wrong" Abloo Abloo.

The entire events around Prospero have been shifted too. It was a Massacre on the level of the Drop Site Massacre originally, it was wholesale slaughter done by a Band of Barbaric Warmongers against an unprepared Legion.

Now it's some barely won endevour because the Thousand Sons have Magical mary Sues to evaporate Space Wolves by the Hundred and Space Wolves win by fucking Fiat.

They made the Burning of Prospero less a Tragic fall and more of a fucking cartoon.
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>>54855938
Spotted the Chaosfag.

Let me give you a hint. The Emperor found all of his Sons as Grown men, leaders of Nations and Kingdoms.

They shouldn't have fucking daddy issues when every single one of them KNEW their duty as soon as the Emperor showed up.

It's just the doubts, Arrogance and hubris' of the traitor Legions have all been turned into Daddy issues by the HH writers. Every single Traitor Primarch developed their problems WAY BEFORE the Emperor found them.
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>>54855997
Nah you're just a awwooo faggot. Keep crying those bitch tears furrcunt.
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>>54856058
What's this from? Pretty sure not from /tg/ since it contains wisdom and not blind hate.
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>>54856039
The Burning of Prospero was supposed to be a Massacre of such size it made Russ Question his entire outlook on life, and instead turn from a Glory Seeking Savage to a person who focuses on the Good of the common people of the Imperium. Changing it from this to a Hard won battle where the Thousand Sons are now Magical Girls covorting with Daemons already defeats the point that the Burning was the tipping point that Shattered Magnus's Faith in Humanity.
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>>54856103
Probably from Tumblr because it sounds like a person who started 40k in 2012.

It's wrong on every account.
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>>54856103
I'm ADB and that's my sockpuppet.

Or maybe it was from this:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328231-master-of-mankind-expect-spoilers/page-4#entry4577609
>EDIT 2: To illustrate some of these points more concisely than I did, here's a message explaining the Emperor's angle, from a former IP-entrenched soul:
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>>54852364
Wrong. The Emperor felt that Horus was redeemable but Fagnus was a lost cause
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>>54855686
I mean, considering how much the articles shit on Ward and Goto and such, I don't really expect impartiality.
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>>54856028
So much this. Immortal super-geniuses constantly having childish fits look idiotic.
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>>54856132
>It's wrong on every account.
On account of your headcanon maybe.
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>>54856132
Could you elaborate?
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>>54855997
It wasnt a close won battle. The Wolves kicked their shit in easily
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>>54856204
And how.
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>>54852433
Exactly. I often see people trying to defend the constant drivel GW / BL keep shitting out by saying that 'they had to advance the setting somehow', but this argument only holds water if you're the kind of window licking manchild that can't play toy soldiers without having 90% of the imaginative but done for you. 40k was always a setting, not fucking marvel comics. Weapons grade autism has fucking ruined the ip.
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>>54856243
I didn't know Rogue Trader descriptions of the Emperor were Headcanon these days.

>>54856258
Rogue trader and earlier editions of fiction regarding the Emperor Paint him more of this Alexander the Great figure, but with more Empathy for his fellow man, People obviously remember Ollius Pious and such, but in general the tone of the Emperor and indeed the Primachs has shifted dramatically.

They were written to be like Ancient Mythological Heroes and Generals. With larger than life personalities and great chasms of flaws. The HH books have taken these ideals and made them into extremely petty and childish men.
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>>54856291
>They were written to be like Ancient Mythological Heroes and Generals. With larger than life personalities and great chasms of flaws. The HH books have taken these ideals and made them into extremely petty and childish men.
Absolutely agree.

>Rogue trader and earlier editions
It isn`t exactly canon then, at this point.
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>>54856291
Rogue Trader as in Rogue Trader, or Realm of Retcons 1, or Realm of Retcons 2?

But yeah, the Primarchs sure have changed.
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>>54852056
I'd go with the well intentioned extremist approach & slowly into a more robotic & asshole way. Someone who had dreams for mankind of a glorious empire which he & his sons rule to where he is now. Someone who wanted to see the primarchs as his sons but through numerous betrayals, ambitions of theirs which he doesn't support & the only son to visit him the past 10k years mingling with Xenos like the Eldar, he became cold & incapable of seeing them as the sons he wished to love.
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>>54856346
>>54856373


RT stuff for the Emperor as a Person is mostly unchanged right up until 3rd edition really.
>>
I have some Khorne daemons I used to run pure instead of Daemonkin, anyone got some army building suggestions? I have at least 1-2 units of pretty much everything except thrones and Bloodcrushers, and I do have a few Blood Slaughterers.
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>>54856706

Wait shit this isn't a general, ignore me.
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>>54852056
I might find a justification for this. For me, Emps maybe did have a more sympathetic and benevolent side that eroded with time.

Remember when the Primarchs mirrored certain aspects of him? Like Magnus representing his mastery of psychic powers, Angron representing his wrathful nature, Vulkan being the representation of his compassion while Sanguinius being the representation of his idealistic traits? I bet that when he created the Primarchs he lost certain characteristics because he gave those to his "sons". And the moment he gave them those characteristics, he stopped seeing them as his sons and saw them as just tools.

That and 10K years of being on the Golden Throne, as a wreck of what he became after his fight with Horus, experiencing indescribable pain and suffering while enthroned probably took a toll on him. That and probably his mind splitting apart.

So even if he were a somewhat sympathetic individual, he ain't one anymore. Pity, since I miss 3rd ED fluff when he shed tiny tears over all the soldiers that died in his name for 10K years. Then shedding tender ones for every apocalyptic battle the Imperium took part in.
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>>54856724
No. Now you will have to tell us your opinion on the Emperor.
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>>54856907
Emps can`t have tears now, he is a villain who has no positive qualities.
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>>54852056
The Emperor is a tyrant,but the best tyrant one can wish to have.
He has the personality like pic related but taken on a divine level.
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>>54855686
In theory yes. But in reality, 1d4chan was made at a time when wikis like Encyclopedia Dramatica were in, and being impartial or informative was regarded as secondary to attempting to be entertaining and make as many inside jokes and references as possible. Sure new Articles get created from time to time, but any real major attempts to reform the site usually get cockblocked by the mods, leaving it a rather embarrassing relic of an older time. It's why a good portion of /tg/ views it with disdain, like the weeaboo friend you had when you were younger but instead of growing out of his immaturity he managed to fall deeper in to the spiral and you no longer enjoy his company or want to be around him anymore.
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>>54852056
From the thumbnail in the catalogue, the eagle wings look like kitty ears on the Emperor.
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>>54857298
What a truly fitting analogy. Describes 1d4ch pretty much spot on.
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>>54857363
And there is nothing wrong with it!
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>>54856953
ADB pls go back to your containment forum
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>>54857580
It was an obvious sarcasm, anon.
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>>54856907
That doesn't really work because he clearly has many of the traits embodied by his sons. He's still a badass warrior, he's still a master psyker, he's still a persistent bastard like Mortarion, he's still everything the Lion was.

I'm not even sure it makes sense that he would feel less of a kinship to them if they were literal parts of his psyche. If anything I imagine he would be far more possessive of them.
>>
As someone who hasn't really read the fluff since 2008, could anyone give me a run down of what the hell they've done to the Emperor. It sounds awful, I always liked the sense that he was a very powerful but flawed human, Arthurian almost, rather than a turbo autism predestined fate Buddha. I liked that he wasn't a God from the get go, and his state in M41 always added to the tragedy of the whole setting.
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kys imperiumcucks lmao
claiming this thread for
CHAOS
H
A
O
S
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>>54855641
More than makes up for the dicksucking that occurs on B&C
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>>54857817
They're trying to portray him as this cold, calculating mastermind who never gave a shit about any of the Primarchs and has no positive feelsings whatsoever. The problem with this arises from the fact that this contradicts with his actions, especially towards the Primarchs when they stepped out of line. By removing any subtext or nuance of emotion clouding his judgement, they just make the Emperor look like A cartoon villain tier fuck-up. The Best example of this is with Angron, where a real cold, ruthless warlord would gotten rid of Angron and his nutjobs after they got in a fight with Leman Russ went he sent him to tell Angron to stop his butcher's nails shit.
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>>54857817
Basically a robot who sees his sons as tools, final battle is now Horus just beating him up instead of Emps letting grief cloud his judgement
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>>54852218
>There is nothing so cruel as pure logic
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>>54857817
Also he's a dirty hypocrite who trafficked with the chaos gods to get his powers
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>>54857607
So was mine but the internet can't convey it
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>>54858432
Wait... WHAT?!?!
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>>54855886
My car is a tool.
If somebody steals my car, and five years later I find it, and somebody's rigged the engine so that it constantly accelerates to 75 miles an hour and instead of brakes working you have to turn off the ignition, I would have the car junked.
I wouldn't say 'a broken sword can still cut lol' and start using it again.
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>>54858623
Vengeful spirit.

Emperor travelled with immortal friends to planet with chaos portal, bartered with Chaos for them to give him power in return for allegiance or something, then he betrayed them and ran away, so they scattered his kids as payback
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>>54858432
>>54858623

That was the point at which I decided that Games Workshop had well and truly lost their tiny little minds.

I mean, it's one thing if the Emperor's wisdom stat is nothing to write home about, but -THAT- is too pork fucking stupid on his part to be believed AND goes against established canon that *Chaos itself* calls him the Anathema of Chaos.
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>>54858672
>>54858678
I write that off as daemons being lying shits, something as far as I know that still isn't retconned.
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>>54857298
t. browser of a Mongolian finger-painting wall
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>>54858714
No, Alivia confirms it, and she was there.
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>>54858678
>>54858672
So... How long have they been letting ADB and friends writing canon with a combination of crayons and "nothin personnel, kid" stickman drawings?
Why in the FUCK would Big E barter with Chaos... You know the entity he's sworn to despise and destroy. And they can see the fucking future they know they hate him as well! How is this canon? Why?
At no point in time did Malcador go "Hey, Emps... This is more batshit than Curze on LSD"?
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>>54852426
This so much
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>>54858740
Literally who?
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>>54858742
Sadly, the old guard has retired and now chaosfags are running thinga
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>>54858782
The immortal friend who was left to watch over the chaos portal
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>>54857957
On the other hand, old empathetic Emps made no attempt to save Angron's comrades and apparently never intended to, didn't care about it being common knowledge that Mortarion also hated him, and fully approved of the Word Bearers simply massacring everyone in their path after he told Lorgar off.
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>>54858812
Does she have shiny angel wings and is actually half eldar, half human, and descended from daemons and first in her class in power sword training and was discovered by Big E when she was 16? Because it sure sounds like the tier of writing we are dealing with
>>54858796
So are they gonna AoS the setting or why the fuck do they do this?
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>>54857957
>>54858001

I honestly despair, the Emperor's humanity being his undoing was one for the best bits about the HH as I understood it. It worked so well with the whole theme of humanity being doomed post heresy. Yeah fine it was very close to a King Arthur rip off but it made sense and perfectly fitted the setting. God damn stuff like this actually makes me sad. Between that and AoS...
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>>54858854
>Does she have shiny angel wings and is actually half eldar, half human, and descended from daemons and first in her class in power sword training and was discovered by Big E when she was 16?
Nah, she's pretty boring, she's kind of a side character until she fails to close the portal and gets killed by Horus.

>So are they gonna AoS the setting or why the fuck do they do this?

I think they're making 40k into an Imperium vs Chaos game and sidelining the other factions
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>>54852660
And Leto II was competent.
He managed to hold the power for over thousand years (if I remember correctly) and died when he wanted in a way that suited his plan, that mankind will expand and thrive among the stars.
Just as planed.

While Emps fucked everything he could outside the unification and great crusade.
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>>54858854
At this point I would not mind if they made halfbreeds canon, if only to enjoy the tears of that one DEldarfag who always shit eldar threads because someone quoted that Metal Gear Solid scene.

Zog it, unless they make a better writing I will go along with TTS!Emps' personality as my headcanon.
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>>54858883
It was always heavily inspired by other media. The fact it was an Arthurian tragedy IN SPEHSS complete with larger-than-life heroic characters like Primarchs or brave Little ants like Ollanius Pius made it excellent
>>54858883
When GeeDubs decided to advance the plot, why in the most retarded way? Honestly I feel like they'd have been better served to have everything be rumours and lies. The universe in 999.M41 could end and so the Emperor could get back up. Or the DEldar could murderfuck the universe into nothing. Chaos could unite and win. Necrons could kill everything. Tyranids could eat us all. Eldar could do witchcraft BS or the Orks could unite. There's no set future but all have a chance to win. This made the game fun. And it let you enjoy the ideas of Dan Abnetts where it's a setting and you play historical reenactment within the setting ie play the Sabbath Crusade or Second War for Armaggedon.
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>>54859054
>brave Little ants
* who only existed in propaganda

>Dan Abnett
Since you mentioned him, if people want to get mad at ADB for "making the Emperor evil", Abnett wrote stuff to that effect well before ADB did.
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>>54859314
>Abnett wrote stuff to that effect well before ADB did.
Since when?
AFAIK the Emperor features rarely in his HH novels
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>>54859413
Legion is what I'm mainly thinking of.

>When the Emperor, a figure long foreseen by the Cabal, had finally unified the anarchic fragments of Terra, he had undertaken a Great Crusade – oh, how telling was that title! – to seek out, and reconnect with, the lost outposts of the human race. It was astonishing how often the lost worlds resisted those overtures of reconnection. It was unconscionable how many times the roving expedition fleets had been forced to go to war with the very cultures they had set out to rescue and embrace, just to bring them to what the Emperor had euphemistically called compliance. It was always, so the official line went, for their own good.


>Looking back, Grammaticus wondered if he would ever have been able to influence the Emperor’s course if he’d lived. He doubted it. Even then, in that tiny moment of connection, it had been clear that the Emperor was never going to turn away from the road of catastrophic bloodshed he was set upon. One day, he would unleash upon the galaxy the most dreadful killing machines of all: the Astartes.
>How ironic it was that Grammaticus’s current task was to broker cooperation with one of those fearsome Astartes Legions.
>Gahet had once remarked to Grammaticus that the Emperor was the only human who would have ever made a viable addition to the Cabal’s inner circle. ‘He sees the long picture of it,’ Gahet had said. ‘He understands the vast, slow cycle, and is content to allow it to run its course. He appreciates the epochal dynamic of true and thorough change.’
>‘Have you ever met him?’ Grammaticus had asked.
>‘No, John, I haven’t.’
>‘Then you have no idea what a bloodthirsty bastard he really is.’
>Gahet had smiled. ‘That’s as may be, but he understands that the Primordial Annihilator is the true enemy of everything, so perhaps we need a bloodthirsty bastard on our side?’
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>>54859456
Two differences I'm thinking of here.

1) Here, he's called a bloodthirsty bastard, but even the man hating eldar mentions they need him on their side. In MoM, he looks like a retard.

2) Here, it's someone else thinking about him. In MoM, Emps himself says all of that evil shit
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>>54859456
>Big E acts totally in character with established canon
>He's evil
Wat? It says he's bloodthirsty but not wicked. Also fuck the Cabal and their filthy xenos meddling, I'd prefer the Emperor any day. The Cabal are a shitty plot device and make no sense as they are subject to the exact same flaws as Emps
Ollanius should be canon again, though
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>>54855938
>automatons
It's automata.
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>>54852364

Wasn't need to know,all Magnus had to do was follow fucking orders.
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>>54852364
>important need-to-know info
>wtf nobody told me NOT to break into an US military depot why is everybody mad?
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>>54859781
Why am I reading it in his TTS voice?!
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>>54859514
It doesn't matter too much, but Gahet wasn't the eldar, he was something else.

>In MoM, Emps himself says all of that evil shit
Evil as in? The business about his "sons"?

>>54859515
It's that idea of him being a join-or-die tyrant whose way wasn't actually the right or only way, no matter what he claimed. Which, come to think of it, was touched on even in Horus Rising as well, both in the opening war for "Terra" (though in that case the ruler of the world was a dick) and during the interex matter.

>Ollanius should be canon again, though
Oh, but he is. Just not the way anyone wanted.
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>>54859855
Yeah, leading your sons to believe they're loved for only to be plotting to eliminate them and their sons is pretty evil
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>>54859781
Centralized command with top-down execution where lower officers are held without sufficient info to make decisions and are forbidden to act independently is a bad thing.

Compare wehrmacht to polish and french army in 1939-40
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>>54859851
Because TTS gives Emps and Primarchs better characters than GW does, thus you associate them with the superior version.
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>>54860215
Bad or good, you said it yourself
>forbidden to act independently
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>>54856132
>I don't like it so it's not correct

Fuck off, chaosfag
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>>54854693

Point being that after those changes, is what's left still the Emperor of Mankind, or just what the Emperor of Mankind turned into? There's the personal decision about their relationship, but also the principled, political decision about whether or not this being still can/should rule mankind.
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>>54856266
Yiff yiff yiff. Shut up, you fucking retard.
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>>54856291
>I didn't know Rogue Trader descriptions of the Emperor were Headcanon these days.


They're not, it's just the favourite non-argument rolled out by newbies that don't have a clue about the history of 40k fluff so pretend it doesn't exist / doesn't matter because it doesn't line up with the fuck awful drek pumped out in the last 10 years.
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>>54857298
>It's why a good portion of /tg/ views it with disdain, like the weeaboo friend you had when you were younger but instead of growing out of his immaturity he managed to fall deeper in to the spiral and you no longer enjoy his company or want to be around him anymore.


That's awkard, given how many /tg/ posters are obviously still weeabos.
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>>54854744
Oh no, not 50% women and non-whites!
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>>54862398
It'd be okay by it alone but him remarking needlessly on a character's skin color then writing on the forums how he intentionally made everyone a brown color because "le homogenizing of the races" makes you think something is afoot.

But you are free to go back to re*dit
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>>54862459
I've read all his books and I've never seen any shoehorned diversity. Even the crazy bitch that drives Angron's ship feels natural

and pic related on muh reddit boogeyman
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>>54862479
Not a coincidence all his characters(Argel Tal, Ra, probably Khayon since he's space Egyptian) have been brown so far.

>Even the crazy bitch that drives Angron's ship feels natural

That's actually the most egregious example I can think of. You're telling me a retard with anger management problems to end all anger management problems is going to tolerate a smart ass captain, no matter the gender, because "she tells it like it is"? Chances are, she'd end up with her head on the other side of the room when Angron lost control after she made a witty remark.

>and pic related on muh reddit boogeyman
t. redditor
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>>54862529
>Not a coincidence all his characters(Argel Tal, Ra, probably Khayon since he's space Egyptian) have been brown so far.

Sheeit, Talos and co were actually Nig Lords all along.
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>>54862529
But she is a strong and witty woman, so she can`t be harmed, anon.
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>>54852627
you are giving GW entirely too much credit
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>>54863387
Do they even legitimately plan anything?
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>>54863662
Nope, see End Times
>forgetting characters and plotlines
>literally forgetting about Skarsnik in the last book, even though he was one of the main characters in the penultimate book

It just boggles the mind
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Anasûrimbor Kelhus is how I view the Emperor now.

Pity there aren't any good pictures of him yet,
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>>54852056
I think it's stupid and I'll give my reasons why.

40k for being the metal setting it is, has this underlying theme of sacrifice and love(especially fatherly and brotherly love). Big E cares about humanity, Isha cares about the eldar, and they have both sacrificed for the ones they love.

It is why the chaos gods, while not actually being "evil" per se are the antagonists. 3 of the 4 don't love any races(except superficially), and Nurgle doesn't sacrifice for those he loves(acting more like an abusive father than a loving one)

It's why the guard and lamenters are outliers, they are the primer examples of sacrifice
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>>54864070
I was not aware EoT was that messy. But they must draw at least some plans, right? They certainly planned (poorly) Horus Heresy series, for example.
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>>54864849
Who needs sacrifice when you can just dish out your daddy issues for everyone to read?
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>>54864849
>‘One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness,
>One last blade, forged in defiance of fate.
>Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered,
>And my final gift to the species I failed.’
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>>54864849

>40k for being the metal setting it is, has this underlying theme of sacrifice and love(especially fatherly and brotherly love)

YES.
____

As for GW, my attitude nowadays is pic related.
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>>54862593
>Nig Lords
Taking this and using it everytime Redditors/cucks praise ADB
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>>54864849
Basically you can tell how good a faction is due to their general compassion/sacrifice ratio

Imperium(due to the emperor's sacrifice, the majority of the imperium cares about humanity and is willing to sacrifice for it)

Tau(don't really care about each other, but are willing to sacrifice for the greater good)

Eldar(most of the eldar only care about preserving tradition, and the DE hate each other)

Chaos(only really cares about itself)

Necrons and Orks are extremely varied and it is hard to say(but generally, they don't care)

Tyranids(don't give a crap)

There are stand out groups( enclave, ad mech, and harlequins) but most of these are true.

Meaning that the most good factions are the Tau, Imperium, and harlequins(generially)
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>>54856197
But Matt Ward and CS Goto being shit -is- impartial.
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All the GW stuff is dumb shit. I imagine meeting a man from the roman empire and how different our worldviews would be. Then I imagine how different my world view would be compared to someone 40k years into the future. Then add godlike powers on top of that. That's the mental gymnastics I do justify why the emperor is so retarded.
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How can GW even recover after all the shit?
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>>54869913
Never, it's all ogor, burn your books and minis while you still can.
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>>54856271
... does the Lion have Aspergers? Like, actually?

I mean, Russ was clearly an asshile, but wtf
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>>54870800
>... does the Lion have Aspergers? Like, actually?
He is indeed maximum autism, yes. He's also autistically loyal to the Emperor.
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>>54870818
>steel blade

Wat. Why would a Primarchs sword be made of steel.
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>>54852364
Remember, Emps had to kept his mouth shut or else the freak guys, aka navigators, would create a serious, serious trouble. Also, how a project that would scrap humanity warp's use for good would ring to a guy who was all about "let's explore the warp at the fullest"?
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>>54852627
Leto II felt love and sadness by watching his majordomo relatives dying of old age, since he got fond of them, felt sadness by his killing of Duncans and cried at least once when talking to his bride.
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>>54870800
He was a feral child, thus social mores are foreign to him.

It's the reason he wasn't made warmaster even though he's the best general of all his brothers
>>54870953
What else would their blades be made of?
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>>54871161
>What else would their blades be made of?
Madeupium?
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>>54852056
>So, Emperor of Mankind. He is a complete and utter unfeeling asshole in the current canon,
If you count the Horus Heresy series as canon. I don't.
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>>54852056
completely depends on how cannon the outcast dead is, either the Big E is a singular person who due to his long life and intelligence who (rightfully) believes himself above the rest of humanity and acts as such, or he is a collection of the original shamans who mirrors the personality of whoever is more dominant at the time. Either way he isn't the loving father figure to humanity a lot of people like to portray him as, his actions prior to the heresy have shown this.
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>>54861871
In this scenario /tg/ would also have been a weeaboo at one point, but would have grown out if it with time and calmed down and mellowed out.




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