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I've become increasingly aware that racism against elves in fantasy settings is a growing thing.

I don't get it. Why? I wouldn't mind, but it almost seems to have become some sort of meme solely perpetuated by edgy teenagers.
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>>55369664
Well when you take into account that elves tend to be written as pompous assholes in literature surrounding them and most lore then you can see how most people tend to dislike even good elves, therefore perpetuating the racism.
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>>55369711
I forgot to add that they literally treat some of their own blood, orcs specifically, as if they are the shittiest subraces on the plane.
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>>55369711
Humans are also depict as asshole. So are dwarves.
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>>55369664
They're humans 2.0. There's nothing interesting about them.
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>>55369711
>how most people tend to dislike even good elves
I want statistics, because I don't think this is actually happening.

>>55369664
Maybe it's just an attempt at "grittiness" and making "believable" worlds, which often means making things unreasonably dark. Elves are the perfect target for that.

>solely perpetuated by edgy teenagers
That too.
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>>55369743
True but the elves give off this specific aura of douchebag by acting as if they are the PERFECT asshole.
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>>55369664
> Sympathizing with honorless, oathbreaking, cloudsucking, unicorn riding, fingerwaggling fops.

Urist...

Get the grudgethrower
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>>55369800
So people have an inferiority complex about a race that doesn't exist.
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>>55369664
You know how people hate people that think they're better than them?

Now imagine if those people were actually better than them.
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>>55369855
Yes, exactly. It's shitty but I get why people do it.
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>>55369854
>honorless, oathbreaking, cloudsucking, unicorn riding, fingerwaggling fops
No idea what race or setting you are talking about.
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>>55369781
I'm almost certain the stats will wave in your favor but you know theres a minority that is very vocal about hating elves, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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>>55369664
I'll be that guy and say that it's millennial game designers being ashamed of themselves for being privileged white males so they make the humans in their settings racist against universally superior native races for no reason because Man is the real monster and we should feel bad because the indigenous Elf population was kangz.
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>>55369888
Feigning ignorance won't help you lad.

Knife ears and those who like then get free rides in the whirlygig
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>>55369936
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>>55369909
Yes, I'm aware of them and unfortunately I'm able to spot them easily after all these years. It's not unreasonable to assume that they are not many, with some casual shitposters that actually don't have any opinion either way just jumping on the bandwagon.

One day I will channel the power of the vocal minorty and go full-on elf supremacy on this board, it might backfire though.
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>>55369664
Since before Tolkien, elves have been portrayed as perfect Mary Sues. Even the vikings sometimes used the term "elf" to refer to an expert in something. They are also frequently portrayed as emotionally fragile and unable to bear with ways of life that are not their own. For these reasons, it feels good to take the piss out of them.
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>>55369936
If anything, the elves are the whitemales
>had an empire in the past
>invented the magic the other races are using
>got outbred
>some weird philosophical shit about their time is over
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>>55369986
elves are awful because of people like you, anon.
>>
Elf-centric settings and mary sues got shoved down our throats so hard that there was bound to be a backlash

Also it's kind of fun to joke about
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>>55369854
>>55369948

> it almost seems to have become some sort of meme solely perpetuated by edgy teenagers.
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>>55370134
Care to name these settings?
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>>55369664
>I've become increasingly aware that racism against elves in fantasy settings is a growing thing.
It is not, besides your attempt to portray it as so.
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>>55369664
>growing
Angry about elves meme is old. Like really old. Older than most /tg/ posters I imagine.
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>>55369986
>One day I will channel the power of the vocal minorty and go full-on elf supremacy on this board, it might backfire though.
>It might backfire though.
>Might
There's no might about it dipshit, most people ignore elf-haters as nothing but memeing shitposters. Attempting to "combat" them will do nothing but make people start to hate elf posters unironicly. For fuck sake it's almost like people don't pay attention to the way a lot of these boards work.
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Elves suck because they always have to be LE PERFECT RACE THATS AMAZING AT EVERYTHING but then they always go and do the dumbest fucking shit that contradicts everything that they are supposed to be about, but still act like they are the shit.
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>>55369664

I first really started to see it in 2e times. The Complete Book of Elves was called The Book if doing Everything Better than Everyone Else in my local store. People got sick of Elves getting speed of mechanical and fluff benefits for everything...
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>>55369664
the worst (somewhat mainstream) elves I've come across is seriously drow.
Their lore is so stupid it's almost aggravating. I don't really have anything against their aesthetics (white hair/obsidian skin is actually pretty nice) but almost everything surrounding that is so bad.
Thankfully TRPGs are free enough that you can make your own version of elves so your not locked into doing specifically what the developers intended.
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>>55370156
How dare you?! Have you no courage?! No honor?! No beer?! I'll shove my boot so far up your perfect little ass you'll be able to taste shoe polish! I'll graft a pair of runic balls to ya just so you have a pair to kick! I'll lash you with my beard
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>>55370542
This is some high-level cringe. I daresay this guy is authentic, which makes this some 100% top-grade cringe.
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>>55369743
Yeah, but just like they're better at everything else, Elves are better at being assholes.
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>>55369664
1. Some people have an overwhelming need to invert all tropes, because they don't know how to be creative in any other way. In fantasy fiction this often involves messing around with elves.

2. /tg/ stuff has a lot of autistic types who find the ideas elves represent offensive. They reeeee at things like art and philosophy because they don't understand them, and they hate anything to do with nature. They don't have the ability for introspection and hate the idea of something being wiser than humans (and therefore them).

3. /tg/ has a lot of ugly people who can't relate to pretty people. They relate to dwarves, though, and because of this they eventually take on the dwarven hatred for elves and make it their own, despite both parties being fictional.
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>>55370401
see this anon's post >>55370185
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>>55370576
>I bet you're one of the DMs that doesn't even bother with accents
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>>55370672
40k, they birth a literal god and ruin the universe because of their stupidity, and then have the audacity to act like they always know best when it always results in them fucking things up for everyone and then running away saying how superior they are
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>>55370774
>inb4 Eldar not Elves
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>>55369664
You kow why Elves have knife ears? So they always have something to stab you in the back with.
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>>55369743
Humans are almost always depicted as being the lesser of all evils
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>>55369769
Role one and make him/her interesting.
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>>55370774
40k is imperium and chaoswank and always has been, furthermore the 40kids who shill it the hardest, even in unrelated boards (and other forums) are imperialfags.
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>>55370774
Eldar are not elves. It's impossible to have elves in a sci-fi setting anyway, since they're a fantasy trope. Best you can do is analogues like 40k.
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>>55369743
Humans are ignorant assholes, Dwarfs are rude and stubborn assholes, Elves are arrogant assholes.

Arrogant assholes are assholes to everyone through.
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>>55371122
>It's impossible to have elves in a sci-fi setting anyway, since they're a fantasy trope.

Sci-fantasy is a thing. Shadowrun is scifi with Elves and magic.

Most of the work of Isaac Asimov is scifi fantasy. Its machines that do magic in most cases and uses fantasy ideas.
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>>55369664

They're typically snooty,mentally cold to other races but will die for a deer. Crazy colored hair and radical opinions about the world that are hardly tangible. Oh fuck I'm describing a femicuck
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>>55370815
Literal detachable knives for ears sounds kind of cool though.
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>>55371319
That doesn't make sense though, elves are typically depicted as favoring bows, and living in forests. Deer would probably be a staple of their diets.
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>>55370576
What did you just say to me you little shit?! I'll have you know I am a veteran of Bugmans rangers and have over 1000 confirmed greenskin kills! I have been trained in the use of over 50 tradition approved weapons and have buddies in the Zhufbar air corp. We will shit fire down you neck you traitorous pheinox fucker. You're dead kiddo.
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IT'S BECAUSE ELVES ARE PARTICULARLY GREAT AT EVERYTHING NERDS SUCK AT BUT WISH THEY DIDN'T SUCK AT. WE DON'T MIND BEING OUTSIDERS, BUT WE'RE ALSO AWKWARD, OBNOXIOUS, UNHYGIENIC, UNEMPATHETIC FUCKS WHO SUCK AT ARTISTIC PURSUITS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY AREN'T WRITTEN.
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>>55371387
G R U D G E

R

U

D

G

E

war when?
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>>55371364
Vegan elves barely happen. Anyone that brings them up probably knows elves only from a certain bad book series, the unfortunate soul.
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>>55371440
They tend to get angry if you stick pointy implements into their tree waifus though.
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>>55369664
I started hating them in 2ed.
Weapon restrictions were rough, and made you think about how you wanted your character armed, least you face big negs.
Then there were elves.....
Elves got to use longbow and longsword regardless of class restrictions. Plus long lives, plus infravision, plus immunity to sleep, plus that sweet dex boon.

But at least humans didn't have a class level limit like elves.

Too many players took elf for obvious benefits...and constantly would say shit like " since I'm an elf, I wouldn't stay in this stinky in" and " I'm an elf, the unicorn/fey would love me!!". Bullshit like that.

Then lots of books (Salvatore, LotR, etc), would portray elves as haughty and superior and selfish cunts.

Then it became"cool" to play a NotDritzz, and be an edgefag drow..

Elves suck. I hate them. There is a 99%chance in our games, that any big problem in the realms, is the fault of some fucking elf.
Rats invading a town? Elven druid behind it.
Lumberjack missing? Elves killed him.
Evil thief stealing mcgruff? It's an elf.

I'm teaching others to despise these treeniggers.
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>>55369664
>I wouldn't mind, but it almost seems to have become some sort of meme solely perpetuated by edgy teenagers.
I mean, you kind of answered your own question there.
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>>55371590
>There is a 99%chance in our games, that any big problem in the realms, is the fault of some fucking elf.
Currently, the PC's are mapping out a tunnel that leads to an island that legend says was the home of many elves.
They'll find many out of commission portals where the arrogant elves had tried to gate/portal in elven demigods to this plane, so they could take over the realms.
They'll find notes of how the elven mages tortured humans in their experiments.

Why? Because elves are shit.
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>>55371364
True Elves are Feyfolk, their rules are contradictory and alien.

Civilized Elves tend to be like Greeks. Who were pricks to non-Greeks as you recall.
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>>55371413
But anon, /tg/ are the Elves.
Everyone hates us for it.
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>>55369664
It's because elves are always at least a bit on the effeminite side and that preys on the insecurities of man babies.
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>>55371849
Or, we just don't like faggots.

>Don't like something
>Ha! You must be that!
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Inevitable destruction of the Mer is the only thing that can save Men from their insidious and nihilistic ways.
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>>55369664
>Why?
Succes breeds jealousy
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>>55371900
I would breed that elf, alright.
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>>55371875
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201307/are-homophobes-really-gay
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>>55371929
>I don't want to eat a sandwich made of feces
>Ha! That proves You must secretly want to eat a sandwich made of feces!!
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>>55371929
So gay.
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>>55371929
>Sticking burning twigs into my eye looks painful, and I'm not going to do it. Nor do I want to see others do it.
>Ha! He must really want to stick burning twigs into his eyes!!!
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>>55371969
>>55372008
>getting this defensive
Look, it's okay if you wanna suck dick man, I don't judge.
>>
Because people are becoming increasingly lazy. As such they are starting to rely entirely on memes even when creating content instead of actually thinking about stuff.
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>>55369664

Cuz their QUEER

>>55371321

>muh detachable DICK
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>>55371875

Anon, it's okay if you want to suck dick. Be comfortable with who you are.
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>>55371929
>Dolce & Gabanna were openly homosexual but also opposed gay marriage
>Elton John called them homophobes
Welp, theory proven!
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>>55371900

Probably this. At creation elves were pretty much better humans. The only thing a man with a dime hats is a keeb with a nickle.
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>>55369664
>racism against elves in fantasy settings is a growing thing.
I don't really care, i think it's more of a meme than any emotional truth.
>>55369743
dwarves are fundamentally isolationists, an asshole is less of one when they really only want to be alone.
Furthermore they are depicted as being brash and abrasive as a product of living lives of labour generally speaking and likewise are known not to particularity like people who don't work as hard as they can.
The hurdle is gaining the esteem of them via merit, which one can do.
It's why i figure people can't really dislike them all that much.

With humans, it's hard to hate one's one species. I'd assume someone who did would be very fucked up.

>>55371929
What's the replication rate or whatever with that study my dude
I don't necessarily disagree with the premise that someone with an over preoccupation with a certain subject might have an unexplored attraction with such a thing.
I doubt the correlation is strong enough to indicate that ANY given person who expresses a dislike for homosexuality can be a closest homosexual
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>>55371240
Humans are depict as racist asshole as op already stated.
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>>55372183
I could go on to say it could be a bit of a class things
Elves are depicted as high class and most people have a general dislike for higher classes
Dwarves as a sort of educated working class and it's hard to disdain them, though they really don't have all that much of an existence anymore. It's like seeing an established carpenter or other skilled labourer.
and humans as he middle
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>>55371784
Would you mind expounding on the Greek Elf thing. I'm kind of curious where you're getting that from.
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>>55369664
Elves are usually arrogant and believe themselves as a more evolved race (even through they aren't), so it's natural that people don't like them.
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>>55372244
>Humans are depict as racist asshole as op already stated.
no it doesn't.
Just that the OP is becoming more and more aware of how settings are becoming more and more racist.
If and where those settings are and the composition there in is never mentioned.
It is perfectly possible for no other Tolkien races to be present but elves
For instance Lowyn where elves are depicted as assholes can count towards that.
The Kithkin in Shadowmoor would also be and example of xenophobia against elves in setting but not contain humans
>>
It's the logical conclusion of the past Sueification of elves by doe-eyed teenagers. What was cliche is now mocked furiously.
>Hey, my elven ranger is so pretty and kewl!
>She's the best archer in ever and a perfect pure vegan and all animals love her, mkay?
>Also she's the lover of Drizzt.
>Hey, give me back my character sheet!
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>>55370266
Yes, but it used to be funny back then. Now I get the feeling some of the dumpsters are taking it seriously.
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>>55371693
>I made elves shit so I could demonstrate how elves are shit
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>>55372303

Depends on setting.

In LotR I'm pretty sure they were literally superior to humans in most ways.

People didn't like that so they made elves who weren't that superior but thought they were.
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>>55372387
Maybe I'm just lucky but I never encountered anything like this even at the height of Drizztmania. Since I never really encountered elf-hate in my local gaming community I've had trouble wrapping my head around it on /tg/.
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>>55372501
Not him, but elves are usually pieces of shit.

>why do you cut trees?
>why not use magically grown wood as we do?
>sure friendly elf, give us a mean to obtain enough wood to fuel our cities and operations without cutting trees
>lolno
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>>55371440
in the hobbit film they served a vegan dinner to the dwarves while playing flobby music.
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>>55372586
The fact that people are still bringing up Drizzt should tell you how much people exaggerate this. Drizzt isn't the go-to Mary Sue anymore, for a long time now.
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>>55369664
It's not a growing thing. It's been a thing since Tolkien, and come up sporadically ever since.

Surprisingly for /tg/ related setting, song of Swords isn't like that. Probably because Jimmy has an elf waifu. Or he just thought, "hey, what if, there were a gazillion elves, they were all objectively better than humans, and humans still lived among the elves?"

Sure, humans could be racist against elves, but it would be like black man being racist towards whites in 1800s.
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>>55372636
no but it still sticks in people's craw
it's still a part pf the evolution of the people idea of elves.
Lotr's elves (in movie form) also did not help that and with it still in public consciousness you will get vegan tree hugging holier than thou elves because it is the pretty race
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>>55372552
Depends on which strain of elves. Some random sylvan or sindar probably wasn't much different than a human who lives innawoods, but a noldor could punch you so hard you'd change gender three times before hitting the ground.
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>>55372501
I made them true to their nature.

>Undeserving sense of superiority
>looks down on all things not fey
>Long lives spent molesting acorns and feeling good about it
>In favor of an alliance with humans if orcs threaten their forest...but if orcs invade a human city, it's their problem
>Their art is better, their food is better, their weapons are better, everything elven is just better
>Spend evenings dancing under the moon
>Scoff at a human party, call it barbaric
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>>55372607
Elves are what you write them as, so if they're pieces of shit that's because you wrote them to be pieces of shit.

So rather than being angry at an extruded d&d race, we should rather determine why fantasy authors tend to write them as dipshits.
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>>55372753
Because they're dipshits.

Elves suck.
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>>55372753
>Elves are what you write them as, so if they're pieces of shit that's because you wrote them to be pieces of shit.

Yes, and that is their standard description.

You could technically make elves that aren't a piece of shit, but would they be 'true elves'? As in what a elf true is?
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>>55372791
>You could technically make elves that aren't a piece of shit, but would they be 'true elves'?
Yeah, if that's what true elves are in your setting.
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>>55372791
>Yes, and that is their standard description
Sorry, but I'm not seeing it in any source book.
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>>55369664
Because elves tend to be written as "humans, but better in every aspect", and people hate marysues
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>>55372819
True, but I referred to their rawest depiction.

>>55372835
See how elves act in story building (campaign) books.
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>>55372753
>Elves are what you write them as, so if they're pieces of shit that's because you wrote them to be pieces of shit.
You could make a Balor just a misunderstood nice guy who looks different than you.
Or orcs that are artists and Craftsmen that never fight.
Or dwarves that like life on the open plains or on an island, and hate the underground
Or undead skeletons that are really good thinkers and scholars.
Or elves that weren't douchebags.

You could...it would be rather silly tho.
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>>55372879
No anon, you talked about their standard description. I want to see the word "shit" in one of their descriptions, because I'm not seeing it.
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>>55370774

To be fair, the Craftworlders are literally the Eldar who told everyone else 'stop being so crazy and decadent' and then fucked off into the void.

So, um, yeah. They saw it coming and were right. If you predicted that your whole race would blow itself up if they didn't shape up, and then they DID, you'd probably be kinda stuck on that for a while too.
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>>55372731

Man, I hope you recognize how full of shit you are.
>>
>>55372031
Being homophobic is suspicious only if you are obsessed with things being gay/not gay in situations not related to gays in any way
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>>55372910
>Or dwarves that like life on the open plains or on an island, and hate the underground
Aren't hill dwarves more plains/surface-oriented types?
>Or undead skeletons that are really good thinkers and scholars.
...You mean liches?
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>>55373138
No. I said dwarves that hate being underground.

No. I said skeletons. Not liches.
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>>55372967
First off, there wouldn't be "shit" not even in the tiefling. Second this book is based upon the race attributes not personality. If they did it would limit the players.
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>>55370517
Drow aren't that bad depending on the source.
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>>55369664
Do you mean in-universe racism, where the CHARACTERS dislike elves, or do you mean real people who are sick of seeing elves in everything?
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>>55373164
But liches frequently are skeletons.
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>>55373273
yes but skeletons are not always liches, even if they are well read.
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>>55373308

How old ARE you?
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>>55373181
no, there are some decent variations, not to mention "dark elves" as a blanket term which has some really nice versions.
What I was specifically criticizing was the mainline "underground-dwelling, through and through evil BDSM" drow.
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>>55373317
old enough to have been a skeleton for 20 years if I died 2 years after birth.
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>>55372910
>Or undead skeletons that are really good thinkers and scholars.

makes sense to me, they are undead so they have all time in the world to study and :think:
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>>55372910
all of the examples you provided make as much sense as elvees beign arrogant assholes who act superior while they aren't.

glad you admit that it's a silly thing to do, but if you like them you can do all the silly things you want.
>>
>>55369664
I'm just tired of tolkien influences in fantasy in general

Elves/dwarves are the most prevalent

I prefer elves and dwarves portrayed as they were in some old celtic, scandanavian, and slavic mythologies.

I think people were trying to flip the (at the time) prevelance of elves being seen as they were in tolkien, believing this would be an interesting and different take on the trope. What followed was just more of the same, people get caught up in sexy-vampires, sexy-werewolves, zombies, elf-hate etc. for a time before the media shifts and something else becomes the trope of the time.
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>>55369664
A: It's a Meme
B: It's been around since forever, in almost every setting ever
C: Pelinel
D: Warhammer Fantasy's Ravindels quest by the Emperor has a Text to Speech device gang
E: Warhammer Franchise
F: Fun
G: Being a spliced merger of a flawed idea of perfection, mixed with druidic bulshit and always with a story of racial heritage relating to the gods and being always known to be the "Archer and Magic race that always gives magic to men who shit all over them for it because they've this sort of 'slowness' about them in fantays stereotype
H: Eastern Treatment of Elves as Orc-cock-bait
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>>55369664
>Stupid elf players
>Stupid animu elves
>Stupid poor written elves
Mix it all up, then add some stupid edgy teenagers wanting to be BRUTAL.
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>>55374635
But Ravindil was literally the only person in that series who wasn't a complete and utter prick
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>>55375056
>animu elves responsible
are they even a noticeable impact outside of Mongolian throat singing smoke circles?
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>>55374634
>elves and dwarves portrayed as they were in some old celtic, scandanavian, and slavic mythologies.

How were they portayed? Honestly curious.
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>>55376364
i've got some reports here
germanic/english
- like the indian deva or the the good people in ireland, can help or hinder.
- cause illness mental or physical.
- elves are literall semen demons and can rape people.
-lots of things tying them to differenet fairies and spirits and overlap between them

Norse
- dusk elves could just be dorfs
-light elves are beautiful and could be gods
-elves have a tendency to be rapists
-anti giant human aligned or some shit

dorfs
-can cause nightmares
-" They are primarily associated with metalsmithing, and also with death"
- maggots in the flesh of yimir
- they can make artifacts for heroes
-also a bit predatory sexualy
-old men
-with beards
-short, small
pretty much the same shit
>>
>>55369872

>tfw you're the elf in real life
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>>55376527
It sounds like the main difference between normal elves and the other elves is being "semen demons."
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>>55372620
Given the elves in that setting, that may have been the point to piss them off...
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>>55376527
while not called elfs there were similar beings in other parts of europe too. In romance countries their names derive from the latin fata, so you have words like fairy.
They also could have sex with people, or help and hinder.

I like the donas de fuera, maybe because we have witch trial documents about them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donas_de_fuera

>They were described as beauties dressed in white, red or black; they could be male or female, and their feet were the paws of cats, horses or of a peculiar "round" shape.

>The first time she came there -she was eight- the "ensign" and the other women in her company told her that she must kneel and worship the king and the queen and to all they commanded for they could help her and give her riches, beauty and young men to make love to.

>And after she had so worshipped them, they made the tables and ate and drank, and thereafter the men had intercourse with the women and with her many times in a short period of time.
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>>55372910
>Or orcs that are artists and Craftsmen that never fight.
He doesn't know about the Ondonti.
>Or dwarves that like life on the open plains or on an island, and hate the underground
He doesn't know about Sundered Dwarves.
>Or undead skeletons that are really good thinkers and scholars.
He doesn't know about Necropolitans.
>>
>>55369664
cyclical change. things that were once ideals are now being rejected, see you in 20 years where elves become cool again.
>>
>>55369664
Elves have pretty much always been "the white people" to white people. Feeling racially or culturally inferior to someone is basically the worst sort of psychic anguish, but since time immemorial this figure has basically not existed in the West, western civilization revels in its superiority to all others, even when this isn't strictly true (*cough CHINA cough*) and so having such a figure thrust into their world is alien and disturbing.

What do you feel about things that are alien and disturbing? Most commonly, hatred. People tend to fall into two camps regarding elves, either they feel a sort of affinity for them, or they are alienated by them and thus dislike them.
>>
>>55378304
But china has been devoid of civilization since the 1950s when the skaven took over
>>
>>55369664

Let's think for a minute: Nerd hobbies and tabletop games and RPGs are becoming more streamlined and more welcoming and inclusive of normies and accommodating to the social justice left, and as this is happening, you're noticing an increase in hate for typically blonde haired, blue eyed, fair skinned fantasy creatures? Really makes me think.
>>
>>55369664
Elves are notoriously racist pricks in pretty much every form of media they appear in.
>>
Racism = prejudice + power. Since elves have privilege, they hold the power. Therefore you can't be racist against elves.
>>
>>55369664
Modern Game Designer says: race is just a function
>>
I usually get around elf racism as a problem by explicitly making d&d elves (and orcs) more like a breed of humans than a 'species.' Orcs were selectively bred, elves have fey ancestry. Two high elves can have 'half elf' kids that need to shave.

The upswing of this is that 'elf villages' and 'orc camps' don't by default have that awkward 'we don't like inferior races here' element. If they do, you've basically come across a cult compound.

>>55380674
Prejudice + Power has always felt like a lacking equation because power shifts. You're the only human in an elf wizardry school, you're powerless. You're a level 20 human wizard hunting down level zero elf refugees, I'd say the abstract concept "oh but there are LOTS of level 20 elves out there" doesn't make it not-genocide.

>>55378304
Being inferior is galling. Being inferior in a way you can't control is worse. Imagine being a human raised by an ancient elven scholar. Eventually you're on your deathbed at 107 years of age and that sprightly motherfucker frontflips in through your window in order to say goodbye.

>>55372873
Well in most modern RPGs there's no XP or advancement penalties for elf characters. Lorewise, elves and long-lived creatures are often characterised as slow-learning and slow-breeding.

Gameplay, an elf wizard that pulls off some good kills can gain XP and level in fighter fast enough to almost catch up with the dedicated fighter player.

Mechanically, 300 year old scholar one day just goes "hey I'll use a sword for a bit" and outstrips career soldiers in a matter of weeks or months.

>>55372607
I'm sensing some Dorf Fortress here. Or someone who didn't like James Cameron's Avatar.
>>
>>55370185
elderscrolls, where everything is elves.

everything, even half of the human races
>>
>>55369664
>I've become increasingly aware that racism against elves in fantasy settings is a growing thing.
>I don't get it. Why? I wouldn't mind, but it almost seems to have become some sort of meme solely perpetuated by edgy teenagers.

Step back to the early internet with me my boy, and the absolutely INFURIATING "elves are better than everybody else" faggots that inhabited it, probably bolstered by the 1993 "Complete Book of Elves" which was a terrible read unless you were already just in love with elves already.

And then realize everything else is but a natural reaction to that.
>>
>>55382305

Here, these are the very first words of the Complete Book of Elves:

>We do not deign to acknowledge the slanderous propaganda spread by the stunted humans who call themselves dwarves. The little miners have always had a rather, shall we say, biased outlook on history and the true workers of reality. They call themselves the finest creatures to grace the worlds--with bodies like that, we suppose one would have to have an active fantasy life.

>For those graced with true vision, Elves comprise the finest race in all the worlds. We are that which other races aspire to be: Our longevity, our beauty, and our craftsmanship are all the stuff of legends. Certainly, each of these attributes can be recreated in some fashion by the lesser races, but theirs is an artifice of face and form and creation--never as fine as those that come naturally to us.

>Our lives are long and filled with happiness, for we recognize the impermanence of all things, excepting ourselves. Indeed, we do not suffer death as do the mortals. Only through violence, accident, or disease do we die at all. Although we vanish from the ken of mortal knowledge after hundreds of years of existence in this plane, you may rest assured that we continue on elsewhere. Even those who perish on the battlefield do not truly die, but instead become part of the earth's cycle of growth and rebirth. Our spirits linger on, for we are intimately tied to the world and its core. Indeed, we are the integral part of that core.

>We would now turn now to other matters, for to continue on in this vein would, no doubt, lead you to beleive that we are boasting of elven prowess. We do not boast. Anyone who has seen even the slightest fraction of elven ability knows the truth of what we say within these pages.

I can feel the rape awakening in me already and I haven't even bent them over yet.
>>
>>55382305
Most people shit on the complete book of elves, even elf-fags.
>>
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>>55378304
>*cough CHINA cough*
ah, you have also breathed Chinese air I see
>>
>>55382321
are you a dwarf? Why does that badly written and pompous paragraph ake you so upset and angry, instead of just scofing at it?
Is it because you know that all it says is true?
>>
>>55382372
>Most people shit on the complete book of elves, even elf-fags.

Sure. But that book could not have been written and taken seriously if there weren't a sizable contingent around to appreciate it.

And those faggots annoyed the rest of us too.

>>55382378
>are you a dwarf? Why does that badly written and pompous paragraph ake you so upset and angry, instead of just scofing at it?

>upset

>implying

I'm just answering OP's question my nigger.

Why are you so buttblasted? Did you get triggered reading the rape joke? If you did, I'm sorry but as one anon to another, 4chan might not be the place for you. There are a lot of them.
>>
>>55369855
>So people have an inferiority complex about a race that doesn't exist.

Anon none of this exists. That's why it's called a game.

You're at the same comprehension level as somebody who sees hentai and writes

>so people get boners over people that don't exist.

Just because they don't exist doesn't mean we can't have opinions.
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>>55371929
AND WE CAN NOW CONCLUDE THAT PEOPLE HATE ELVES BECAUSE THEY HAVE POINTY EARS

AND BY THEY WE MEAN NOT THE ELVES, BUT THE PEOPLE HATING THEM

BECAUSE ONLY AN ELF COULD EVER FIND SOMETHING TO BE DISLIKED IN AN ELF

CLEARLY
>>
>>55382378
why are you so upset that someone doesn't like your dumb fantasy race?
>>
>>55382413
The elf haters were elfs all along. At last I truly see...
>>
>>55382399
It's like complaining about Drizzt-clones while nobody does Drizzt-clones anymore. At some point you get more complaining about a thing while the things isn't happening. Or do you think that all these writers OP is talking about played with the same people as you?
>>
>>55372438
>Yes, but it used to be funny back then. Now I get the feeling some of the dumpsters are taking it seriously.

>taking fantasy racism seriously

My nigger, even if they are it doesn't matter because there are no elves around for them to hurt.
>>
>>55382321
This is clearly meant to be a parody, too bad the authors didn't realize the tabletop gaming audience has severe autism.
>>
>>55382438
Except people actually do. It's seriously freaky shit.
>>
AROUND ELVES
WATCH YOURSELVES
>>
>>55382438
>it doesn't matter because there are no elves around for them to hurt
This is exactly why they targte them.
>>
>>55380674
>Racism = prejudice + power. Since elves have privilege, they hold the power. Therefore you can't be racist against elves.

>Racism = prejudice + power

This just in: Blackface and lynchings aren't racist. You can tell because paint and rope has no prejudice and no power.

And the people wearing blackface and doing the lynchings aren't racist either.

You can tell because they're individual humans who can easily be killed by any angry nigger and aren't any kind of more powerful and aren't necessarily any kind of prejudiced but just following the crowd.
>>
>>55382436
>It's like complaining about Drizzt-clones while nobody does Drizzt-clones anymore. At some point you get more complaining about a thing while the things isn't happening. Or do you think that all these writers OP is talking about played with the same people as you?

They probably played with the kind of people I played with. Or they're imitating people who, like me, played with people like that.
>>
>>55382452
>Except people actually do. It's seriously freaky shit.

My nigger, even if they are it doesn't matter because there are no elves around for them to hurt.
>>
>>55370624
Underrated post
>>
>>55382399
>implying
those were your words
>I can feel the rape awakening in me already

you were clearly upset.

>>55382415
what part of my post seems upset?
>>
>>55382526
>you were clearly upset.

You are clearly new if you think a little rape joke between anons is a sign of agitation.
>>
>>55369664
Basically they are cunts.
>>
>>55369664
Well there's two groups that like to hate on them.

There's the SJW communist cock-suckers who equate Elves with Aryans 2.0 and thus hate everything about them while they them selves play half-demon-half-angel-100% faggot mary sues who promote gay rights in a fucking tabletop game.

The other group is fat neckbeard HFY fags who like to play WH and honestly just need a target.
>>
>>55369743
You got that wrong.

Humans are allarround assholes.

Dwarves are fat bearded greedy manlet assholes.

Elves are perfect i'm better than you and you can't deny it assholes.

People simply hate feeling inferior.
>>
Quick question, what's a setting where elves are written well? Everyone defending elves always brings up elves being written by bad writers, but what are some examples of elves being written by good writers, then?
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>>55378304
>(*cough CHINA cough*)

I admit that China through the ages had more advanced society. But that stopped being a fact in the 17th century.
Today they are a ''state capitalist'' (which is the PC term for National Socialist who they won't criticize because they aren't white).
Their economic policies are slowly ruining them as a people while the fact that the multiple ethnicities within their country are all practically in a cultural war with the Han Chinese isn't encouraging as well.
Oh and please read this as well.
Their neo-colonioalism is backfiring on them as well.
>>
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Elves are silly
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>>55370517
Drow are good in Eberron, where they're scorpion worshipping Mad Max Australians
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>>55370624
this.
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>>55376577
I don't know if this was intended as a joke or not, but i laughed.
>>
>>55369664
One thing no one has hit on yet but is in my opinion actually one of the most important one is this:

It's safe to hate Elves!
Out of the three 'standard' non-human races (Elf/Dwarf/Orc) only Elves carry no real life bagage.
Tolkinesque Dwarves are pretty explicitly Jewish, and this tradition carries on.
Orcs, depending on the work, often have tribal and black connotations. (For example amerindianesque in Warcraft and clearly African-American in Shadowrun)

Elves on the other hand don't have this type of coding towards discriminated groups.
>>
>>55370774
So. Humans birthed 3 major chaos gods thousands of years before the Eldar and Slaanesh.
>>
>>55369664
They want to include actual racisms between humans to be edgy. But if the included blacks they would get massive shit for it.
So they just choose the closest human analogue in pasty white "knife ears" or whatever the fuck they call them in stuff like dragon age and the witcher.
Writers are just very unorignal for the most part
>>
>>55369664
>I don't get it. Why?

Because elves are essentially a fantasy insert of powerful, beautiful european white people.

And self-hating marxists loathe anything even remotely european.
>>
It's a combination of the fact that Elves are generally handled very poorly in Fantasy, because most authors don't really know what to do with them. They had very clearly defined purpose in LOTR (and less so in Silmarillion) as a sort of melancholic reminder of "glorious past", of that fleeting, more beautiful romantic world that must give it's way to reality.

Most contemporary people don't really uphold this "fading past glory" sentiment anymore, as our society has been very disillusioned by history, and became either very cynical, or very future oriented. As a result, people have problem sympathising even with Tolkien's elves, and most modern authors don't use them as such a trope, rendering them basically meaningless within their own fiction.

And on top of that, there is simply the good old problem of insecurity. Many, MANY people today are raised to be insecure AND to react with hostility to whatever reminds them of their insecurities: Elves, being pretty much by definition (due to their "fading glory role in LOTR) idealize beings, make people conscious of their flaws by comparison, and that makes them angry and ready to lash out.
Rest is mostly people rationalizing away that sense of insecurity.
>>
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Elves make for amazing sex slaves.

>YFW a cute elven girl will never bother you for some french fries.
>>
>>55383637
>>55383547
>>55383326
Jesus, all of these theories are SUPREMELY fucked up and themselves a clear proof how over the past few decades, the Marxist identity war mentality has been actually massively embraced across wide public, regardless of whenever they consciously identify themselves with it or not.
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>>55383687
Worst so far.
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>>55383695
Fuck you, weeaboo elves are way better than those lanky European pieces of shit.
>>
>>55383691
It's not so much been "massively embraced" as it has been forcibly indoctrinated into the masses. Everything else has been branded heresy.

Nearly every single university or higher learning institution has it's staff consist of people brainwashed by the Frankfurt schools marxist-communist dogma. And where do people learn how to write fluently enough and create like-minded connections to publishers to get their writings released to the public? That's right, the very same institutions corrupted by self-destructive ideology.
>>
>>55383674
>Most contemporary people don't really uphold this "fading past glory" sentiment anymore, as our society has been very disillusioned by history, and became either very cynical, or very future oriented
Interesting point, I suspect that some elf fans are some kind of romantic conservatives. Not the "gas the joos" /pol/-tards, because these are HFY-fags
>>
>>55383715
If you wouldn't be masturbating constantly you would see that there is nothing to them. Also many elves we play around here are smaller than men, but what would an anime-elf faggot know about fantasy.
>>
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>>55383715
>>
>>55383767
I like how you're implying that anybody that has opinions on elves, at all, doesn't look like this
>>
>>55383732
>It's not so much been "massively embraced" as it has been forcibly indoctrinated into the masses. Everything else has been branded heresy.
I don't think so. You are right that the shit has been more-or-less indoctrinated through social and liberal art colleges in the west - though more through exclusivity than through forceful shutting down counter-theories. It's really just that the alternative theories are not really being taught.

But the problem is that the shit is becoming very common even among people who had not been through the "indoctrination" of western social/liberal college education. It's more like the new "common sense" thing. It's much more sinister than being just totalitarian doctrine, it's just really a "common sense interpretation of the world" now.

But lets stop this before it turns into political debate: These things should be discussed elsewhere: in public, best in college campuses, definitely somewhere where people can be accountable for their words, and definitely NOT on a board about board games and fantasy tropes.

>>55383742
>I suspect that some elf fans are some kind of romantic conservatives.
I think many of them are. Though I'm not all that sure there are really "elf-fans" out there, just people who enjoyed Elves in Tolkiens lore and possibly in a couple of others, like TES (where they barely are elves at all).

And lets not forget that pathologies exist on all sides. SOME people who will go out to "defend elves" might actually be driven again by insecurity, just displaying it through clingy-ness rather than hostility. Both can be valid reactions to things that make you insecure: you might lash out against the object, but you also might become obsessively worshiping it.

It's just that aggressive reaction is FAR more common in the west these days than the worship one.
>>
>>55383691
>theories
It's not a theory if it's direct authorial intend.
Tolkien himself said
>I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue
>>
>>55383783
t. Neckbeard weeaboo who thinks everything Japanese is better
>>
>>55383789
Aesthetic inspiration has FUCK ALL to do with explaining contemporary people's attitude towards them though race and identity power theories. The fact that Tolkien was potentially inspired by Jews in establishing Dwarven culture and "feel" does not mean that Dwarves represent jews as a identity unit, you fucktards. Jesus, you really are brainwashed.
>>
>>55383803
I like how you, a man posting on a board about Dungeons and Dragons and its knockoffs, are implying that somebody who likes Naruto and its knockoffs is somehow inferior
>>
>>55383752
>>55383767
>>55383803
I get why /tg/ is a shithole that can't get anything done now.

But no really, enjoy your shitty Tolkien elves and your archaic outdated fantasy settings. Not like anyone would want you in a game, any way.
>>
>>55369733
Imagine a mad scientist kidnapped one of your family members. Over the course of a year, they tortured them, mutilated them, and killed them. Then they brought them back, through some impossible mad science. But not as they were. They lashed them to some kind of twisted murder-machine, left just enough consciousness to hate what they were, and remade everything else from the ground up. Now they're his twisted murderous pet, and he's sending them after your friends.

Wouldn't the only good, compassionate thing you could do be to kill them?
>>
>>55383785
>Though I'm not all that sure there are really "elf-fans" out there
I don't know how you would expect one to prove that, but I think I'm pretty much an elf-fag. Of course I don't like every instance of elf, not from all settings, but the general idea appeals to me. Though what the general idea is is very subjective, of course.
>>
>>55383826
>>55383833
t. neckbeard weebs with no gfs
>>
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>>55383833
>enjoy your shitty Tolkien elves and your archaic outdated fantasy settings
Yeah, because anime elves are so original and ground-breaking. I remember when I added anime elves to my setting and they changed everything! And all my players minds were blown apart from these spectacular new elf-things and all the great innovative tropes they brought with them!
>>
>>55383816
Despite your unnecessary aggressiveness, could you explain how this makes sense:
>inspired by Jews in establishing Dwarven culture and "feel" does not mean that Dwarves represent jews as a identity unit
To, this is like saying 'He used bricks to build this house, but the house is not a brick house'
I mean sure, there certainly is transformation and the end product is more than the sum of its part's, but the foundation is still there and should not be discarded.
>>
>>55383843
I find these categories of "X-fan" and "X-fag" rather weird, and only useful when used against either people who are patiently and provably IRRATIONAL BEYOND ANY REDEMPTION, or used in tongue-and-cheek fashion.

I personally do quite like elves in Tolkien, in Midsummer Dream, in Dunsany, in TES universe and hell, I even enjoyed their deconstruction in The Witcherverse, but I'd never consider myself an "elf-fag". It seems like a label that has been invented by people who hate all elves by default (instead of judging them in the context of individual works).
>>
>>55383839
It's not like people will hate you for killing an orc.
>>
>>55383687
>>55383715

Kuroeda is best. Fat belly elf a shit.
>>
>>55383898
Adding "-fag" on everything is just old 4chan lingo and never inherently offending, it only depends on the context. Like you can call someone "your nigger" or use "nigger" as an insult in the next post
>>
>>55383847
That's you in the mirror~
>>
The space elves from The Irresponsible Captain Tyler are the best anime elves
>>
>>55383879
>To, this is like saying 'He used bricks to build this house, but the house is not a brick house'
Jesus, I can assure you the hostility is much warranted in face of this stupidity, considering you are quoting Tolkien yet doing the thing he wrote an INCREDIBLY FAMOUS ESSAY warning people NEVER TO DO THAT.

You don't understand the difference between aesthetic inspiration and fucking ALLEGORY?

Just because Tolkien imagined Dwarves to be kinda rootless and dispersed from their homelands, adopting to life in other cultures does not mean that DWARVS ARE AN ALEGORY FOR JEWS. No, they just share similar traits.

I have a fucking civilization in my world that is inspired by Armenian cultures, and they happen to be shaping to be the "villans" of my world. Does that mean I'm saying "Armenians are bad"? No, I just found Armenian culture, costumes and architecture interesting and fitting given this civilization's similar living conditions.

Tolkien wrote an extensive essay in which he expresses hatered for allegory, and very explicitly warns people never to interpret his work as an allegory for real world.

Yet the first thing you do is to assume just because dwarves have superficially similar aesthetical traits, they are a STAND IN FOR JEWS. No: they don't represent jews: they don't allude to jewish history or culture. The just happen to have a trait that jews also have, because Tolkien found it aesthetically appealing.
>>
>>55383913
Apparently >>55369733 does.
>>
>>55383991
>You don't understand the difference between aesthetic inspiration and fucking ALLEGORY?

I do and never said they where an allegory.
I am just saying that even if it's just inspiration it can still interpreted as something.

I just don't get your whole frame of reference for all this anger from you, to be honest.
>>
>>55384377
>I do and never said they where an allegory.
But you still explain the reason why it's OK to hate elves but not dwarves because you assume dwarves are a stand-in for jews. That is actually the fucking GIST of your argument.
>>
>>55384415
>dwarves are a stand-in for jews
Have you actually read my last post?
I am explicitly saying that they AREN'T stand-ins, but even you can see the association between them, right?

>That is actually the fucking GIST of your argument.
My argument is that even just this association is enough for people to feel uncomfortable. With Elves you have a nice, clean line between reality and fantasy that's way muddier with the other standard races.
>>
>>55384648
They are not stand in, but you can see how they are stand in: yeah I read it you retard, it's just that you are a retard and consistently contradicting yourself, because you said something AMAZINGLY STUPID at the start and now you are completely unwilling to back off, even though it's pretty obvious how fucking dumb the thing you said was.

And no, the association does not exist in most people's head, that is YOUR invention. You tried to even argue for it using fucking Tolkien quote, and claimed that it's AN AUTHORIAL INTENT for FUCK SAKE.
So fuck off.
>>
>>55384715
>They are not stand in, but you can see how they are stand in: yeah I read it you retard,
Okay, let me get this right:
'If something is inspired by something there is no association between the inspiration and the end product.'
Or what? I really don't get this train of thought to be honest.
>You tried to even argue for it using fucking Tolkien quote, and claimed that it's AN AUTHORIAL INTENT for FUCK SAKE.
Because at the time i thought you where unaware of the fact that Tolkien's Dwarves actually where inspired Jews.
>>
>>55384876
>'If something is inspired by something there is no association between the inspiration and the end product.'
That is not what I said, what I said is that the association is irrelevant. In fact: there is no such thing as inherent association: there is merely an INFINITE NUMBER of potential associations, out of which we CHOSE to select few that seem relevant to us.

You insist that the association with jews is super relevant: both as an AUTHORIAL INTENT and in the eyes of the broad public (despite the fact that I can fucking guarantee to you that if you ask people about ethnical or national association with Dwarves, 80% scottish, 17% Germans and about 3% will think of jews).

Your claim was that people express hatred for Elves more than Dwarves because dwarves represent jews and anti-semitism is generally loathed, while Elves have little ethnical association.
When I pointed out how dumb that is, you said: "it's not even about public association, it's what the author intended".

Reality is that no: people find Dwarves more relatable because they are more flawed and generally and less idealized: they trigger less insecurities, they provide more ballanced image, and they generally represent virtues more widely shared in the public etc...

Your entire emphasis on the association with jews is bullshit, an association YOU chose to stress out purely because it fits a pretty fucked up world-view that you might even eve be aware about, but that you adopted.
>>
>>55384715
Your autism is way off the leash, guy.
>>
>>55385022
Literally everyone I've ever played with was aware of the dwarves/jews parallelism even if they were unaware of Tolkien's input on the matter. All it takes is a basic knowledge of history and stereotypes.
>>
>>55385037
>>55385080
By the way, I'm not the anon you're REEEing at. I just couldn't let such self-righteous retardation go unchallenged.
>>
>>55370185
>>55370672

>LotR
The epitome of "elves are better than humans at everything and anything, immortal and also can't be evil"

>Warhammer Fantasy
High Elves are the biggest cunts of the world who caused the War of the Beard due to their own stuckupness
Elven goddess brainwashes entire human nation into a medieval North Korea just so serve as buffer so humans can die instead of elves

>40k
Birthed a Chaos God into existence. Still think themselves as the shits
>>
>>55371849
>I hate spiders.
>Therefore I must want to fuck spiders.
Am I getting this logic right?
>>
>>55385080
I don't give a fuck about your anecdotical evidence any more than you would give about mine.

>>55385037
>>55385097
Take a note kids: this is a lesson on how NOT to react when something makes you feel insecure. It's just screaming "you make me insecure and now I have to insult you!"
>>
>>55385157
No no no.
You ARE a spider.
>>
>>55385169
You didn't make me insecure. I'm pointing and laughing at the downie because it's funny.
>>
>>55376663
I'd say rape crazy
but i wasn't the anon saying
MUH GERMAN TRUTH
And he's not around so you are stuck with my Wikipedia summery
>>
>>55385107
>The epitome of "elves are better than humans at everything and anything, immortal and also can't be evil"
You're wrong about everything except the immortality part.

>warhammer
lmao
>>
>>55369664
Because elves(and dwarves btw) are a useless race. Why create another race if you just make humans with a different ethnicity?

Also, most players and writers make elves like a bunch of faggots
>>
>>55385185
No, you are lashing out because what I'm saying is making you insecure, then you are retroactively justifying it with this pathetic excuse.
You literally can't put together a single coherent issue with what I'm saying, you just scream "autist" as if you knew what that word means.

Here is a very useful tip: If you get trigger by something enough that you need to out and insult who ever said it, but you can't actually make a coherent argument about what is wrong with what he said: THAT IS ALWAYS INSECURITY TALKING OUT OF YOU.
>>
>>55383950
>I know you are but what am I?

Clever.
>>
>>55385107
>getting LotR wrong
>two warhammers
>ET lore
>puting the blame on the elves alone and deliberately forgetting all their sacrifices in the fights against chaos
Good shit.
>>
>>55385157
Spiders are an instinctual fear. They make you uncomfortable because your ancestors descended from animals who were instinctively cautious around spiders, because the ones who didn't died.

Homosexuality, on the other hand, is a learned fear. It makes you uncomfortable because you have been taught that homosexual urges are dangerous. When the presence of a homosexual fills you with these dangerous urges, you react with apprehension. If you didn't have them, then you wouldn't feel any apprehension, because you wouldn't feel the dangerous urges.
>>
>>55385245
Again, retard, I'm not that anon. Go ahead and vomit another couple bullshit paragraphs though. Entertainment like this is the whole reason I come to 4chan.
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>>55385245
You're crying because you wanted Tolkien's dwarves to not be standins for Jews yet they were.
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>>55369664
Elves are so bad. With a bit of salt and pepper they can be positively delightful!
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>>55385245
>MAYBE IF I POST SOME MORE ALLCAPS THE PLEBS WILL FINALLY LISTEN TO ME
>>
>>55385022
>You insist that the association with jews is super relevant
No, i just pointed out that the Dwarf-Jew connection was intended by the author to begin with.
After that i thought you might have something interesting to say, maybe dazzled by the sheer volume of text you produced. But now after coming back from a walk with my dog further discussion really isn't that appealing anymore, so i will NOPE out for now.
>>
>>55385268
>>55385300
Thank you for proving my points so eagerly, kids.

>>55385276
Tolkien very explicitly states that they are not, and warns people to never interpret them, or any other part of his work in this way. So if you authorial intention counts for anything, no. They are not.

>>55385335
>No, i just pointed out that the Dwarf-Jew connection was intended by the author to begin with.
Except he explicitly stated that they are NOT. He said that he they resemble jews in some superficial traits. But thank you for explaining why you are leaving a discussion that you lost so eloquently. You know that not posting anything when you run out of arguments would be a lot more dignified, right?
>>
>>55385266
>Homosexuality, on the other hand, is a learned fear
I found a link.
>https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/natural-homophobes-evolutionary-psychology-and-antigay-attitudes/
>>
>>55385367
>everyone else is pointing and laughing at me
>that just means I'm the smartest!
Hey lad, I'll go ahead and defeat your argument for him because really it's such a trivial distinction that not noticing it is the whole reason you've been so fun to mock.
>Tolkien's dwarf/jew parallelism = valid evidence that such interpretations are not completely phantasmal
>Tolkien's condemnation of allegory =/= the audience won't generate dwarf=jew interpretations, especially if they're unaware of said condemnation
And you thought I was mocking you due to insecurity.
>>
>>55385367
>Except he explicitly stated that they are NOT.

>I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews
>>>>>>>>>>>NO CONNECTION! REEEEE! DWARVES have NO connection to JEWS, YOU fucking RESTARTED idiots? Can't you just ACCEPT that i am the SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE in this conversation?
>>
>>55385463
>“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
There. All you fucking need to know you retard.

>>55385440
See above, and say that about evidence again. And the piece of shit LITERALLY invoked authorial intention, not public association. Which is tenuous at best, by the way, and none of you managed to really prove it to be significant.
That is not to mention shit like the fact that anti-semitism always existing and being pretty widespread, and becoming increasingly popular and common over the past few decades yet no evidence suggesting that general attitude towards Dwarves would be changing around here.

You had not said anything the other fuck did not say that wasn't wrong and self-contradicting. And yes, you are doing this because you are insecure.
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>>55369664
Depends how you present them. I don't think anyone hates the original Fair Folk. I think most people simply dislike the lazy escapism that elves represent.
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>>55385626
>many confuse applicability with allegory
And you are definitely one of them
We keep saying 'It's not an allegory, but the expressly stated inspiration lends itself to seeing the parallels'.
>>
>>55369664

Elves are shitty and uninteresting. They're one of those fantasy races that are so heavily forced into a stereotype that the only way to make a fun character of that race is to make them a negation of everything that race represents. An elf that's muscular, macho, ugly and dumb is fun. An elf that's just an elf is not.
>>
>>55369664
Because those fucking twink trap bastards need to stick to their own kind and quit stealing our men!

Unless we can watch.... Then it's ok...
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>>55385717
But the RELEVANCE OF THE PARALLEL is what I have been questioning from the start. If you retards actually kept track of the argument, you'd notice that my initial issue was with people stressing out the importance of conflictology-informed and essentially Marxist race/gender/other shit identity hostilities as a key factor to understand the issue. Which is what I called out, saying how it's rather disheartening to see people embracing this view of social phenomena. To which the first retard said "but that is what Tolkien had in mind in the first place!".

Again, YOU RETARDS can embrace ANY interpretation or association you deem relevant. That is both Tolkien's point (the applicability he speaks about) and mine. But it's also important that not every interpretation should be considered equally valid and that there should be more tight relevance criteria.

My whole original point is that to claim that A). people are more open to hate on Elves than Dwarves because of fear of implied anti-semitism is riddiculous and requires more evidence, and B) that to assume that this kind of phenomena can be explained by identity-driven power-struggles is inherently a wrong way to think about it.

And to this claim, the first retard replied with "but it's totally what Tolkien wanted to say!".

And after I've proved that wrong, you fucks continued to say "well OK, that is not what he wanted to say, but we are right anyway because fuck admitting being wrong!"

And that is the fucking gist of the argument.
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>>55385626
>And the piece of shit
>the other fuck
>If you retards
>Again, YOU RETARDS
>you fucks
To quote another post made by you:
>"you make me insecure and now I have to insult you!"
>>
>>55370185
Eragon. That's it.
>>
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It's kind of annoying that Elves always get shoehorned into the hippie tree-hugging race, despite the two most prominent Tolkien exammples being:

1) Warrior-scholar types with a murky history. Party animals.
2) Xenophobic isolationists who are will stoop to murder and blackmail for a bit of dragon gold. Also party animals.
>>
>>55385626
Gee you sound awfully insecure
>>
>>55385805
>autism, the post
Oh sorry
>AUTISM, THE POST
>>
>>55385080
Jews are not a working race.
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>>55369664
The most played system are obseded with having a normal, playable race with a text that talks about them like if they are Tolkien's elves.
That in D&D 3.5 would be easily be a +5 LA just by the stats, but the players don't get that, they do tend to get a retard trying to have everything in those text happen with their elves because it's how they are written.
>>
>>55385805
>everyone's retarded!
>EVERYONE BUT ME
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>>55386429
Can you give me some of these descriptions?
>>
>>55385805
Well, if that's how you see it you where arguing against something that wasn't there to begin with.
(At least i think so, here's how i perceived the whole thing)

Tolkien/Dwarves where chosen by Anon because they where actually the thinnest of the three connections he mentioned, and by strengthening the weakest link he tried to strengthen the whole.

Then you said that 'inspiration != representation'

He then he asked for clarification on that point.

And this is where the communication broke down. You seem to have a pretty 'hard' definition of what you meant by >represent<. Instead of elaborating on this point though you went on an anti-allegory tirade.

He pointed out that he never said it was an allegory.

You said he actually argued they where.

He reiterate that they weren't stand-ins, but can evoke unwanted analogies just by association.

You got angry, and then argued he association was just his invention (despite acknowledging the Tolkien quote in the next sentence).
You thought he was saying "Dwarves are Jews" while he was saying "Because they where inspired by them there is an association between Dwarves and Jews"

He inquires about this and clarifies the reason for his earlier use of the Tolkien quote.

You argue that there is no such thing as inherent association and then show your (mis)representation the argument so far.
You do make a good point why *players* would like Dwarves more then Elves, though.

Anon clarifies that the whole thing started by saying the connection was intended and leaves.

And you once again keep your opinion that it's not.

Other people jump in and begin to argue against you, too.

You dig into your position that inspiration doesn't make a connection (and use a Tolkien quote in a pretty nonsensical way)

Someone points out your double-think that inspiration doesn't constitute a valid form of connection and association.
>>
>>55371929
Allow me to retort.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/social-scientists-might-be-hidden-retards/
>>
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>>55386612
Very impressively summarized, anon. Let's see if it can defeat the next round of ALLCAPS.
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>>55386703
Thanks, halfway through writing the post i began to wonder who was the bigger Autist?
Him for inciting this stupid argument or me for actually compiling a post chronicling it...
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>>55386803
Whatever the magnitude of autism, yours is clearly of higher clarity and quality. There's a difference between constructive analysis and "EVERYTHING I SAY IS RIGHT AND YOU'RE ALL RETARDS" and I appreciate it.
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>>55386875
FYI, he's at it in another thread. >>55386137
>>
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>>55387037
Hahahahahaha
>>
>>55387037
Holy shit, link him back to your summary so he knows he's been called out but clearly this is an illness we won't cure today.
>>
>>55387232
I think he knows, or why do you think we don't have any further POST full of randomly CAPITALIZED WORDS and unnecessary SWEARWORDS, you RETARD?
>>
>>55385902
I have issue with you fucking garbage having nothing ELSE to say but insults. It's not the insult alone that bothers me, it's the fact that you can't make a point beyond insulting someone.

>>55386345
>>55386354
>>55386433
And you just keep on proving me right.

>>55386612
So, for starters: Damn, this is how the discussion should look, and I'm very grateful to you for typing this all out. That said:
The core problem is not about the possibility of association between Jews and Dwarves: but the RELEVANCE of that association. That is: whenever such association should be considered important or worth examining or indulging.
And he was, from the start, arguing that such an association is relevant, enough for us to explain the odd discrepancy between attitudes towards Elves and Dwarves. And he DID support that claim by quoting Tolkien, very specifically. That was his argumentation fuck up.
Later on he changed his argument and pretended like he said something else, shifting towards the "it's not intentional but still possible interpretation": to which I replied that it's a pointless interpretation, one of infinite number of possible ones, but there is no evidence that it's either really prevailent one, or that it's justifiable.

I'm not denying that it's possible to associate Dwarves and Jews: I'm saying that such association is stupid, pointless, and that the particular quote from Tolkien he provided is in no way sufficient to justify such association. That is really all.

>>55387037
Fun fact: a lot of people use capitals for emphasis.
But thanks AGAIN for proving how desperate you are to circlejerk how better you are even though you have absolutely no fucking argument to stand on.
>>
>>55383752

Manlet elves are a D&D invention. Tolkein and Warhammer elves have always been taller, hale and beautiful than the average of Mankind, like an ideal Aryan.
>>
>>55387729
Oh, he's back. He must have gotten bored of the other thread.
>>
>>55387729
>The core problem is not about the possibility of association between Jews and Dwarves: but the RELEVANCE of that association.
>For you

How could you have read that whole post and not see that you are arguing against nothing?
Had you stopped your rambling tirades after he asked for clarification the first time and would have reconsidered instead of calling everybody an insecure retard you could really have saved yourself and us your pointless posts which boil down to:
>Inspiration is insufficient for association

Would you have have taken a deep breath and calmed down before posting instead of going on your unnecessarily hateful and rage filled comment-bender, you would have found that many people would actually agree that the Dwarves/Jews connection isn't the main reason people like Dwarves more then Elves.
You are absolutely correct that Dwarves are seen more favorably by players because they are usually portrayed more well rounded, or at least more sympathetic, then Elves.
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>>55369664
*blocks your path*
>>
>>55388012
>How could you have read that whole post and not see that you are arguing against nothing?
I was not arguing against nothing, I was arguing against people being wrong and misguided, which is pretty much what most people try to do in discussions. Love how rest of your post is just screams about your assumptions about my emotional states.
Fuck me, you people are really awful at losing arguments. You even throw the literal "that is just your opinion, man!" shit that I thought was long since identified as a joke.
>>
>>55388421
How'd they manage that? Public benches are usually bolted down.
>>
>>55388589
>I was arguing against people being wrong and misguided
Only problem is there actually where no such People.
You made two main arguments:
>Dwarves are not Jews
>The superficial inspiration Tolkien took isn't enough for an association.

No-one argued the first point. You might call it back-paddling, but the Anon made it clear that he wasn't as soon as he noticed that you thought he was arguing that.

The second point is something you argue, but i just can't see the logic behind it. And something you can't back up, basically since the start of this

>Love how rest of your post is just screams about your assumptions about my emotional states.
Well, your posts have a very aggressive tone and are laden with insults and profanity. They are certainly something a calm and/or well adjusted person would write.
It's especially interesting to note that the more your post professes to be right the more you seem to fall back on EMPHASIZING with all-caps, expletives and slurs, all things usually used to show anger in text.
>>
>>55388792
>You made two main arguments:
I actually haven't made either of those arguments, but frankly I'm getting weary of this discussion. It's nothing else than you going in fucking circles over and over: either recognizing what I'm saying being right yet still refusing to accept the implications for the discussion, or flat out projecting/completely ignoring what I'm saying yet still acting superior.

>The second point is something you argue, but i just can't see the logic behind it.
That is the fucking problem. But I can't fucking teach you basic common sense or logic. I suspect it may be too late for that too.

>Well, your posts have a very aggressive tone and are laden with insults and profanity.
Yeah, you retard, this is fucking 4chan. If you want polite and mature, well policed circlejerks, there are other places for that. To assume that I'm actually angry because of caps that I use specifically to stress out key notions, seeing how incredibly poor at text comprehension you people are, and from the slurs, makes about as much sense as to assume that everytime someone posts "LOL" on facebook, he is actually literally laughing out loud for Christ sake.

But what ever, think what ever you want: My problem is not that you assume this shit, my problem is with you retards thinking it matters. You are constantly trying to use the "U MUST BE MAD!" shit as a fucking argument, as if it in any way played in your favor.

Pro-tip: it might make you feel better about yourself in comparison if you are insecure, but otherwise is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT. Me being mad, or a fucking nigger, or a woman or a fucking jew or having a fucking seisure does not in any way diminish the validity or invalidity of my claims. My arguments and my argument ALONE should be what matters to you shitstains.
UNLESS, that is, you care more about finding reasons to make youself feel better regardless of the actual arguments. Which is: unless you are insecure as fuck.
>>
>>55388012
Dwarves are seen more favourably by a small subset of players only >>55370624
>>
>>55388900
>I actually haven't made either of those arguments
Then what is your argument? If the two things aren't argued by you, what do you even stand for?

>>The second point is something you argue, but i just can't see the logic behind it.
>That is the fucking problem. But I can't fucking teach you basic common sense or logic.
How is it not common sense that if A is blatantly inspired by B that there is a connection between A and B?
Please, enlighten my with your superior intellect and flawless logic on this question that remains unanswered since >>55383879

>Yeah, you retard, this is fucking 4chan.
Yeah, but the thing that makes you seem angry is your inconsistency. You have some posts without any of them, but then you have posts that are extremely defensive and full of it. It's not that difficult to see a pattern.
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>>55388421
Dibs on the one on the left.
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I've said this before, but I don't like the post-Tolkien depictions of elves. Beautiful fairy beings superior to humans fit much better as villains than heroes - and they're simply boring if unflawed.

And no, living a long time is not a flaw. Well-written good-aligned elves are the Mirkwood Elves in the Hobbit - though they fight on the side of good in the end, they are massive dicks to the dwarves (I hated the Elven-King as a kid, still think he's a bit of a twat) - they aren't all nice, lovely supermodels. Make your elves selfish. It makes them much better.
>>
>>55369664
Dwarf fortress memes that carry outside of their containment cliques.
>>
>>55369664
Skyrim
>>
I need racial slurs for elves. Knife-ear and treefucker are played out and google doesn't offer much else. Any suggestions? I don't really wanna make a new thread for it and I can't think of a better place to ask than /tg/
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>>55389089
>sylvan elves led by a provincial Sindarin nobleman are rude to trespassers and care little for quest right
>sylvan elves led by a princess of the House of Finarfin show only proper caution and celebrate quests, even beardlings

Really makes you think.
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>>55389224
Keebler.
>>
>>55389224
Fly-fucker.
>>
>>55389224
Gnomes
>>
>>55371122
>This race is tall, slender, and resembles a baseline human but with pointed ears.
>Unnaturally long lived, they consider even the oldest of humans as merely "children".
>Their longlivedness is reflected by the fact that the race itself is in a decline, with a very low procreation rate.
>Once the greatest race in the setting, they are nonetheless forced to give way to the inevitable human growth and expansion.
>Quick and intelligent, they more often than not use skill gained from years or decades of training to outright avoid getting hurt, for their constitution is considered to be less hardy than most others in the setting.
>Having an innate understanding and ability for the setting's version of mystical powers, they more often than not have a disproportionate amount of mystical practitioners relative to total racial numbers than most other races.
>Generally considered aloof and arrogant, they prefer to deliberate and consider all outcomes becomes engaging in conflict with the other, lesser races, often only when the outcome benefits them and negatively impacts others.

Who did I just describe anon. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck.
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>>55369711
>elves tend to be written as pompous assholes in literature
the same website (of virgin neets) that adores chads complains about elves being pompous assholes?
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>>55390145
Chad is a joke. Actually a Nietzsche-inspired joke. At least it was, originally. Until retards completely missed the point.
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>>55390173
>At least it was, originally. Until retards completely missed the point.
yeah. cue in my comment above.
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>>55372910
>Plains dwarves.

Made a setting where the primary dwarven clans on the continent live in a valley far to the north. The valley rests surrounded by tall mountains created by their gods in ages past. The main feature of the valley is a great plain where man high razor grass grows, the blades of which are sharp enough to flay a man in a brisk breeze. The dwarves ride rhinos and elephants, the only warm blooded animals with hides thick enough to live in the razor fields. Incidentally enough, they're considered to be the greatest cavalry force in the realms. My players love it.




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