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Previous Thread: >>55683847

A thread for discussing the Star Trek franchise and its various tabletop iterations.

Possible topics include Star Trek Adventures - the new rpg being produced by Modiphius - and WizKids’ Star Trek: Attack Wing miniatures game, as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and Star Trek in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures, Modiphius’ 2d20 RPG
-Official Modiphius Page/Living Campaign rescources
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
Playtest Materials (via Biff Tannen)
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/36m6c22co6y5m/Modiphius%20Star%20Trek%20Adventures
Reverse Engineered Character Creation.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g2ofDX0-7tgHojjk7sKcp7uVFSK3M52eVP45gKNJhgY/edit?usp=sharing


Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p (embed)

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS (embed)

WizKids’ Star Trek: Attack Wing Miniatures Game
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

GF9games Star Trek: Ascendancy Board Game
-Official Page
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF (embed)

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP (embed)
>>
BLACK ALERT
>>
the spore drive is the silliest tech ever.

>mushrooms are now capable of transwarp fuckery.
>the Glenn got shroomed
>>
>>55708713
???
>>
>>55708713
>the Glenn got shroomed
It was the Iconians I tell you. Quick! Hide innatubes!
>>
>>55708731
>>
>>55708729
Plot point of Discovery. They've managed to create a drive that transport people instantly to anywhere they want. And its made out of mushroom spores...
>>
>>55708713
??? Spore drive? Mushrooms? What STO-related (I'm assuming) fuckery is this?
>>
>>55708796
Lol I wish it was STO. You could brush it off then. No my friend this is Discovery fuckery
>>
>>55708729
The USS Discovery and the USS Glenn are Section 31 black project vessels tasked with finding a new type of warp drive that allows extremely fast speeds.

The Federation is researching a way to win the war on their terms. This new warp drive will allow them to strike deep in Klingon space and exit before the Klingon can react.
>>
>>55708713
What the actual fuck
>>
>>55708791
...what the fuck happened to this technology? Why has it literally never come up ever since? What the actual fuck, STD, what the fuck is this shit?

>>55708845
So, it's confirmed that they're S31 ships? So STD literally is "Section 31: The Show".
>>
>>55708845
I thought klingons were allies
>>
>>55708877
Nah, in STD's era, the Klinks and Feds are at war, because First Officer Imma Bitch decided to go to war with them.
>>
>>55708872
Its not specifically stated to be Section 31 but there are Black Op Starfleet Officers aboard. You can tell because they were black badges. Most likely its Starfleet Intellegence
>>
>>55708796
Surely First Officer Michael Perfection, Spock's adopted half-sister and the ONLY human to ever attend the Vulcan Gender Studies Academy, developed and maintains this mushroom-laden Sporp Drive.
>>
>>55708900
>>55708919
>>55708923

Its stated that the Klingons in STD are fragmented into 24 warring Great Houses. One low level house attempts to unify them by baiting the Federation and provoking them. Federation reacts predictably and the Klingon responsible for the trap successfully persuades the rest of the Great Houses to go to war with the Federation.

He is later then killed by First Officer Cold Bitch in which that makes him a martyr and the entire Klingon Empire rallies to war with an even more fevered pitch of war boners.
>>
>>55708919
>you know what's a good idea?
>explicitly marking our spies

At least the titles of eps three and four are fucking amazing.
>>
>>55708919
There are numerous cues that Discovery is a S31 ship.
>>
>>55709217
But it's not specifically stated. Section 31 and Starfleet Intelligence have overlap in their operational purview. Those same cues could be alluding to SFI
>>
>>55709217
As someone pointed out last thread S31 doesn't even let people within Starfleet or the Federation know about their organization. They aren't going to walk around with color codes badges. Starfleet Intelligence which is an altogether much more above board organization probably would.
>>
>>55709265
>>55709283
Well based on S31's previous behaviors its not unusual for them to co-opt entire ships for their own needs.

It could well be a research vessel that S31 is secretly holding the lease for. The Captain of the Discovery has a collection of aliens and a dead Gorn as a trophy.
>>
>>55709320
But they still wouldn't be so blatant with the allegiance.
>>
>>55709283, >>55709320
You're both overlooking the the simpler explanation; that Section 31 is not involved and the actual writers have next to not knowledge of Trek since they actually fired the original show runner that DID know about Trek and that they legitimately think Starfleet is a military organization and so are writing it as one complete with a black ops division.

Never assume a plan when the other explanation is "fucking morons", because Hollywood and the TV industry is stocked with and run by fucking morons.
>>
>>55708713
>>55709320

>spore drive
>corpses of sapient beings as trophies

The more I hear about STD, the more retarded it gets.

>>55709371

This.
>>
>>55709371
Why the fuck is Hollywood so full of fuckups
>>
>>55709416
Because it's an enterprise based on creativity that instead is run by producers who's creative ability is limited to large pocketbooks that allow them to dictate what goes into the show or film since they are paying for all of it.
There's even an episode of that Supernatural series that actually highlights the absurdity of it (and does so in such a way of pointing off the changes made in their own series).

Basically, the explanation is money.
>>
>>55709470
Wasn't that the whole "thing" behind the TOS Romans ep?
>>
>>55709371
I fucking hate that this is the actual reason, until stated otherwise. It just reinforces my belief that STD is better off as not a Star Trek show, kinda like Enterprise was, and it just got the name as a way to keep the franchise alive.
>>
>>55709541
>ent wasn't really trek
Only season 3 which i kinda liked desu
>>
>>55709283
>As someone pointed out last thread S31 doesn't even let people within Starfleet or the Federation know about their organization. They aren't going to walk around with color codes badges.
You're probably right, but something tells me the STD creators wouldn't care about that.
>>
>>55709477
Unsure.
>>55709541
Agreed.
>>55709572
Some later bits of Enterprise where they did the Romulan War stuff is where the writing team had their shit together, at least for a short while.
>>
>>55709283
It's a black ship with black badges, black alert, and black Burnham. Its registry ends in 31. Its mission is secret squirrel shit. Killing a shuttle pilot was literally the first thing the ship did to get Burnham on board. It's Section 31.
>>
>>55709893
Sure hope you're right and not me
That would show a little bit of actual planning on the side of the creators.

Ironically that would mean that this entire series ultimately revolves around a crew of failure who started a cold war that a greater and better man stoped twenty years later.
>>
So, in Star Trek Adventures, how does Escalation on certain items work?
>>
>>55710024
It's a ship named after a space shuttle other than Enterprise. It was doomed from the beginning.
>>
>>55708646
Tamarians are what happens when you adopt memes as your primary form of communication before you even invented writing.
>>
>>55710221
Goatse, his hands wide.
>>
>>55710230
Wojack, his smile dead.
>>
>>55708713
At least we know that it's going to fail so badly that the Federation never talks of it again.
>>
>>55710471
Unless it does, and TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY get retconned.
>>
>>55710484
That would be a good way for them to get rid of a lot of viewers.
>>
>>55710552
Fans enjoy continuity. TV writers bitch and moan if you tell them to watch all the existing Trek and consult Memory Alpha before penning a new script. Doing a prequel series this close to TOS reduces the space of canon compliant scripts into a box a tribble couldn't hide in. Hell, the fact that they're doing holographic programming instead of using tape libraries is already a minor retcon of TOS.
>>
>>55708995
The Klingons motivations make sense. Remember Quark's talk with Garak comparing the Federation to Root Beer ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VhSm6G7cVk

T'Kuuvma saw the same thing. He saw that peaceful contact with the Federation would change Klingon culture. He didn't want to prevent that. So he started a war. Win, and the Fedeartion is no more. Lose, and you have enough angry Klingons that there is likely to be another way. Either way, his plan works.

It only failed because the Organians stepped in to prevent outright war.

>He is later then killed by First Officer Cold Bitch in which that makes him a martyr
While she is on a mission to capture him alive, after she told everyone exactly why killing him would be a bad idea. She switched her phaser from stun to kill just to shoot him.

Star Trek TOS onwards was about a competent crew trying to maintain the moral high ground even when doing so is hard and/or risky.

STD is a show about incompetence and not even trying to keep the moral high ground.
>>
>>55710616
They could used the Abrams timeline. They could have told a similar plot using a new species set after DS9/Voyager (the galaxy is big place, plenty of room for a major faction to hide). Either way they could have avoided a lot of continuity trouble. They might have even been able to make it work with Klingons in a post DS9 series.

Instead they chose to set themselves this close to TOS. They chose to claim that they were in the Prime Timeline. They chose to make it hard for themselves. I will hold them to the standard they chose.

Enterprise, Abrams movies, STD. Three series in a row that don't even try to advance the timeline. Why are those involved in production so afraid of advancing the timeline.
>>
>>55710430
More like Wojak, his face when.
>>
>>55710670
Legally they could not have used the Abrams timeline.
>>
>>55710781
Why not ?

Still, they have three other choices:
- Put in the effort a prequel requires to fit with continuity. Which seems to be more effort than setting it after existing canon.
- Post-DS9.
- New timeline.
>>
>>55710826, >>55710670
Hey, at least my 2395 game isn't "non-canon" since the retards at Paramount apparently don't want to advance the timeline at all.
>>
>>55710670
>They might have even been able to make it work with Klingons in a post DS9 series.

Post destruction of Romulus, the Star Empire is falling apart and the Klingons and the Federation have WIDELY different ideas about what to do about it. While the Federation is focused on the humanitarian disaster brought about by the collapse, the Klingons want to take the opportunity to fragment the Romulan people in a way that prevents them from ever being a competing power again. Is the Federation willing to enter a hot war with the Klingons in order to protect Romulan planets from being absorbed by the Empire? And it's not just about protecting Romulans as every planet the Klingons are able to absorb shifts the balance of power between the Klingons and the Federation in the Empire's favor.

>>55710826
JJtrek rights are owned by Paramount. The show is being made by CBS, who own the prime universe rights. I actually do wonder who has the rights to approve a new timeline. I would assume CBS, but I could also imagine it having to be something both CBS and Paramount have to agree to.
>>
>>55710670
The problem with advancing the timeline is 24 seasons and ten movies of accumulated bullshit space magic. To a fan, the obvious conclusion is to slap QSD and the Voyager goodies on the hero ship and have them boldly go deep into the beta or gamma quadrants while still returning home every now and then, or to slap QSDs on an entire fleet and colonize one of the Magellanic clusters, or to "level up" and start dealing with the OP races from earlier series as peers.

The problem is that to make an advanced civilization setting like that work, you need consistency and good writing. Executive meddling, Trek writer squabbles, and Rick Fucking Berman have been getting in the way of that for sixteen years, three movies, and two series now.
>>
>>55710826
Don't forget mirror universe, contemporary with one of the other series but in a different area, and holodeck simulation.
>>
Are the abrams movies ANY good?
>>
>>55710107
You add threat equal to the Escalation into the Threat Pool.

I think it's supposed to represent that like, bringing a Type-3 Phaser rifle on an Away Mission means you're looking for trouble and likely to find it. I do like the Escalation mechanic, because it sort of emulates how the TV shows would go. Obviously no one is going to have heavy duty weaponry in any given episode unless it's going to be used at some point, after all.
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>>55709320
>takes places long before TOS
>there's a dead Gorn trophy
>>
>security fires hand-held phasers without even aiming

I have no idea how they manage to be so accurate. Do they lock onto targets or something?
>>
>>55711767
Holographic targeting implants in the eyes maybe? I don't even know. It's probably best not to think about it, just treat it like you would an action movie hero hip-firing an assault rifle or something.
>>
>>55711901
>action movie hero hip-firing an assault rifle

it makes me really angry
>>
>>55711556
They're fun space action movies, though in many ways they feel less Trek and more Wars.
To their credit, they do throw quite a few references to the classic series into it, sometimes in small ways you actually have to look for.
They are extremely action-heavy, but Trek films are always more action-packed then Trek shows due to simply not being constrained by budget limits.

So basically they're fun but nothing particularly special. Without the Trek label they'd probably be forgotten fairly quickly.
>>
>>55711767
In all fairness, the Type-2 phasers from the TNG era shows would be AWFUL to aim with, recoil or no.
They are held and pointed at an awkward angle and don't naturally follow the contuer and pointing mechanics of the human arm, so they already fail pretty hard at being practical defensive weaponry.
Type-1 Phasers are worse; they're as small as your fucking car keys and their design would be near impossible to get a solid grip on, mostly because you can't grip it at all.
>>
>>55712104
No kidding. They look like those supermarket barcode scanners. There is no way to aim those things unless you're at extremely close range. I remember a TNG episode that started with Picard and Riker talking while doing target practice on the holodeck or something. They'd just raise their hands and accurately beam moving targets every single time with their car keys. When I hold my keys there's no way to even tell which way they're pointed at without feeling for the parts of the key, it's a mess
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>>55712104
TNG phasers clearly had some form of auto aiming built in. Just point in the vicinity of the target and let the phaser do the aiming.
>>
>>55712336
This actually makes sense when you consider the phaser banks are just sets of lenses on the ships outer hull.
>>
>>55712346
I'm now imagining a Miranda class with a big pair of glasses on the front. Hmm.
>>
Anybody think the mushroom drive is related to fluidic space, species 8472 shit? I mean, its funky shit, but biological warp drives/quantum singularity has Star trek precedent even if its culling from worst trek.
>>
>>55712646
Honestly that's giving them too much credit. I'm willing to guess that it's completely unrelated, though I would love to be proved wrong.
>>
>>55712646
The Elachi are fungus that infects and transforms people. Dead people but the fungus is infectious and can make people dead so it amounts to the same. In any case they spread via infectious spores.

The Elachi are allies of the Iconians in STO. Iconions are all about folding space.

Elachi were introduced in ENT but at that point were still using conventional warp drives.

This could be them first stumbling on to remnants of old left behind tech and adapting their shit to work with it. They hunt for more left behind Iconian stuff and it eventually has them encounter the last of the Iconians and wakes them from their long sleep in time for the events of STO.

Section 31 has managed to steal and reverse engineer an Elachi hybrid engine or has built one of their own using stolen information.

This will not be in the show. In the show it will be "we invented this because we're just so good. Then we forget it again in time for Kirk because of course we fucking do".
>>
>>55711556
Beyond actually started leaning a bit more towards actual Trek in my opinion, didn't like the others much, but they were decent action films.
>>
>>55712731
>In the show it will be "we invented this because we're just so good. Then we forget it again in time for Kirk because of course we fucking do".

I'm hoping the reason that it's never talked of again is because it goes horribly wrong. But I will admit that I won't be surprised if the writers say that it works, then never explain why it gets forgotten.
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>>55712807
It does work. It works beautifully.

I will never not be mad that they lost the original version of this film.
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>>55712820
I thought they found it in a Romanian salt mine or something.
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>>55712873
Salt mine in Transylvania. Degraded beyond restoration.
>>
>>55712807
They've inadvertently sexually assaulted the Q continuum. Their research, the tech everything will just be forcefully retconned out of existence by the Q.
Who are actually just sentient mushrooms.
>>
>>55713205
Probably a better ending than the one we will get.
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>>55712820
Did that version have just more terrifying/gory scenes or was anything else changed ?
>>55712929
I can't even begin to wonder how that happened
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>>55713205
>sexually assaulted the Q

I want to see this
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>>55710670
It's funny how people say things like "It's hard to write good stories in the 24th century because tech like the replicator makes things too easy.", then we get a prequel where the key mcguffin is something that couldn't be replicated anyway.
>>
>>
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>>55712820
I wonder how all the captains would react to Event Horizon (With possibly Dr. Weir on board) if it ever appeared on their path.

>That episode where Picard's archeological curiosity almost dooms the crew of Enterprise, as he allows a mysteriously alive pre-warp scientist found on derelict ship to board enterprise.
>>
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The biggest difference between Orville and STD that makes Orville feel more like Trek is the lighting. Everything in STD is dark and dramatic while the Orville looks like TNG. I think Seth Macfarland might be a secret genius in seeing the market for a real Trek show when STD went this dumb route.
>>
>>55715036
That's certainly what I've been hearing.
The Orville appears to be doing Star Trek's positive future better than Discovery does, which goes dark and gritty.
Now I just need to wait for a service available in this country to actually watch the bloody thing.
>>
>>55710670
Technically Enterprise advanced the timeline with all the stuff we learn about the future via the Temporal Cold War.

It's not much, but it's more than STD is pulling off.
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>>55715036
It helps that Seth is also a genuine, unabashed Trekkie. No one can do a better parody of a thing than genuine fans, as we've learned in the past.

Although after years of "deconstructing" Trek (with the JJ films, the novels, and arguably DS9 too), it also helps that McFarlen seems to be focused on REconstructing it.
>>
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>>55715036
>>
>>55715686
>REconstructing it.

That.

Because by 'eck did we need something to show that the idea of everything not being shit and everyone not being assholes to each other all the time was still possible.
>>
Anyone else worried that STD will have the crew torture someone for information ?

And try to play it off as the right thing to do ?

While failing to mention mind melds ?
>>
>>55716250
It's a pretty likely scenario. Look at the Captain's weird ass trophy room. He's already admitted to being ok with doing whatever is necessary to win the war.
>>
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>>55716250
Well, Deep space 9 had more than one episode where the moral was "terrorism is good" and so
>>
>>55716250
yes on all counts I imagine.
Though I imagine Burnham may mention mind-melds, but since she's not a Vulcan, that's fairly pointless, so the torture goes ahead.
Haven't seen any Vulcans in the Discovery crew so far, or did I not watch closely enough?
>>
>>55716292
I don't think there's any established alien species beyond Sarek shown.
>>
>>55716250
I fully expect that will happen.
I fully expect they'll also slip in a rape/mind rape episode somewhere because those ALWAYS work out great.

In short, I expect them to do everything modern tv typically does to keep things continually tense and upsetting because how soap operas work is now how you keep all audiences engaged these days apparently.
>>
>>55716292
Also you need training for mind-melds, vulcans aren't born knowing how to do it. By ENT the art was almost extinct.
>>
>>55716250

Mind rape against the unwilling isn't much better though.
>>
>>55716421
Why not? Betazoids see no problem with it.
>>
>>55716333
Odd that it seems to become more common later in the time-line.
But it would make sense for the skill to be really rare around Discovery's time?
>>
>>55716421
The difference between a mind meld and torture is that a mind meld is a reliable way to get information.
>>
>>55716617
Doesn't that hot Vulcan Marquis woman try to mind meld with someone in DS9 and it fails?
>>
>>55716654
Trying to get into out of Dukat.
It didn't work very well.
>>
>>55714519
It's basically down to writers and good they are writing.

Most script writers seem to hate the fact that show has established story going on and they have to actually watch the show before they start writing on it, most seem to think it bounds their creativity, that the setting allready have McGuffins that could solve the problems they created.

This was actually reason why they went in the Star Trek past with Enterprise as Braga and his goon squad thought they could not write good stories with all the shitty stuff they used to solve issues in Voyager.
>>
I've occasionally wondered about the Vulcan mindmeld and its ability to tap into things that it by all reason, shouldn't be able to. Like the Nomad probe or the Horta.

I think I'll put a lot of that down to it just being TOS (they skipped on that stuff a ton later on) rather than try and come up with some grand unified theory of a consciousness dimension that the mindmeld taps into in or the like. Because that would just be silly.
>>
>>55716698
Well Dukat was insane egotistical bag of Dicks even in his good day, so no wonder logical Vulcan can't get out anything from his mind, because it is all wrapped constant ME ME Mine jibberish
>>
>>55715013
>Sisko
"I don't care about the Event Horizon, Dr. Weir. I'm taking the Defiant, moving away from her, and firing Quantum Torpedoes at her until she is a ball of glowing plasma. "Fuck this ship!"

>Janeway
"We are gonna use this to get to Alpha Quadrant, lets install the gravity drive on this ship!"

Or alternatively, if she isnt being written incompetently.

"You violate the laws of physics and expect nothing bad to happen?"
>>
>>55712336
So how does a phaser distinguish from different targets? What if a bad guy is standing next to an innocent civilian?
>>
>>55716847
In Star Trek they do know other dimensions excists, hell Species 8472 is from one, they only started coming to ours when the Borg went poking there and tried to assimilate them.
>>
>>55716847

>We are gonna use this to get to Alpha Quadrant, lets install the gravity drive on this ship!
>Harry, you go over there and keep an eye out while we run some tests.
>>
>>55712873
>>55712929
How the fuck does the original footage of an American (British?) horror movie end up in a salt mine in Romania?
>>
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>>55708713
My theory is the spores are technology developed by these dudes, a giant galactic machine devised to seed the cosmos with disgusting humanoids
>>
>>55715705
Alright, enough of that silly shit.
We had a black captain in this fandom as a major character back in 1993; the alert was stupid and sounded stupid but racism has no part in Star Trek.
>>
>>55717096
The spores are just a way to navigate the slipstream pathways used for FTL travel in Andromeda. The reason navigating them in Andromeda required a biological pilot is because at that point the spores have infected all biological life.
>>
>>55717096
The Captain in Discovery already confirmed it's tech Starfleet is developing not something they ran across from some precursor empire.
>>
>>55716943
Yea, but those dimensions dont mind rape you.
>>
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Just for anyone who missed it screen caps of the places Burnham gets sent to using the spores.
First is Illari which I believe is in the Delta Quadrant last I checked.
>>
>>55717228
Do you trust that guy to be honest?
>>
>>55717362
Sure. It's during a a scene where he basically has to lay his cards on the table to earn Burnham's trust. I have to take it at face value until something else says otherwise.
>>
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Moons of Andoria
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Romulus
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>>55717405

Looks a bit like one of those matte paintings they used in TOS. Pic related.
>>
>>55717386
Why is it not a frozen wasteland?
>>
>>55717405
This reminds me of two places in the Delta Quadrant, one where it was a super-industrialized society that kidnapped the Doctor to force him to practice medicine for them, and another where it was a super-industrialized society that kidnapped everyone but the Doctor to force them to work for them.

>>55717418
This reminds me of the slave pit that Shinzon grew up in with the Remans.
>>
>>55716464
From TOS era all we really know is that Spock could do it. Possibly he was in a minority. Presumably the taboo about it faded away between ENT and TOS when they got hold of Surak's preserved mind and original writings. It's hard to condemn mind-melds when not only does your core religious doctrine contain a how-to guide but also that the father of your entire way of life participated in the practice.

By TNG the practice might be so wide spread that young Vulcan's can attend afternoon mind-meld classes.
>>
>>55717018
Either:

The original footage so horrific that they couldn't legally distribute it everywhere got canned and shelved, shunted from shelf to shelf, storage unit to storage unit until it ended up in a crate labeled something like Deep Storage. Old slat mines often get used for storing shit long term; it's dry, spacious and naturally a constant temperature with still air. Presumably they didn't seal the box properly and at some point prior to deep storage some moisture got into the case.

or

Salt has often been used to ward off the unholy. Placing it in a large cave with walls made of bedrock and salt was a containment procedure. At some point an Orthodox priest Cheeki Breekied his way in and performed an exorcism on it.
>>
>>55716770
The Treveler claims that thought is in some sense the same thing as matter and energy. He talks about it like its a scientific fact that humans just haven't advanced far enough to figure out yet.
>>
>>55717618
Roddenberry didn'r die fast enough to save Star Trek from that retarded notion.
>>
>>55717360
>>55717386
>>55717400
>>55717405
>>55717418
The locations Lorca lists off aren't the locations Burnham is seeing; he's just listing possibilties. Your "Illari" seems to be a redesign of the planet from City on the Edge of Forever, while "Moons of Andoria" is Amerind from The Paradise Syndrome. Everywhere she sees is probably somewhere that appeared in TOS.
>>
I think one of the things that annoys me most about Discovery is that the opening theme is semi-Trek and seems to be about inspiring wonder and hope and a sense of Discovery, but the actual show is yet another gritty war drama populated by shitlords and the only thing we've Discovered is how lacking PBS is in good writing staff and how willing they are to just not even try anymore.
>>
>>55717734
>tfw no episode where Discovery encounters a planet-sized flower
>>
>>55717763
Correction; there's no episode of Discovery where they've discovered ANYTHING.
My guess is the title and theme song were created before they kicked off the old writer's and tried to turn it into sci-fi game of thrones.
>>
If there's one aspect of the show that's badly written, it's the medical staff. It's not the typical "lmao let's shock asystole" kinda error either. The medics are completely fucking insane. They discuss patient complaints with completely unrelated people, many times explicity identifying patients. That doctor on the Enterprise-D guilt tripping Worf into donating life-saving tissue to his mortal enemy was extremely painful to watch. Not even Picard was inhuman enough to override his decision. Every time the doctors were present in episodes I just knew I'd get angry about something.
>>
>>55717734
>shitlords
i instantly developed dislike of you.
>>
>>55717803
They discovered a giant penis beast.
>>
>>55717827
Why? Because I'm complaining about yet another TV show populated by people even shittier then the people in real life are? It gets a little fucking boring after awhile when every desicion every character makes is the dumbest or most mean-spirited decision they could have made.
Especially in a show like Star Trek.
>>
>>55717951
No. I agree with everything you just said. It' the association of that word and the people who most commonly use it as their favored insult.
>>
>>55717861
That was totally just someone's pet. Lorca's going to feed it to his Tribble next episode.
Or he wants to find out how someone on the Glenn super-sized a Tardigrade and do the same to his Tribble to let it loose on Klingon planets.
>>
>>55717827
Her smile and optimism: gone.

Damn shame. I know I'm in a minority but I actually liked Kes as a character. Well, mainly that narrow timeframe before she left the show but after she got possessed by that warlord guy and finally ditched the self-propelled trash fire that is Nelix.

But she got Troi'd; created with arbitrary restrictions, a relationship that was detrimental to the whole and despite experimentation the writers never managed to nail some decent episodes to her.
She was an essential character for the development of the EMH early on. She had a good relationship with Tuvok who was one of the few likeable characters on the show at that point, and as a whole she had that classic love of finding out just what was out there in the universe.
>>
>>55718761
I always thought the point of Kes was to grow old and die in the way the rest of the cast would have if Voyager took the 70 years to get home it was supposed to. But she got dumped before there was enough time to explore those issues.
>>
>>55711556

I personally dislike them (the first one especially due to getting hyped over it, which is partly my own fault). However:

2009 is well paced and well directed. Most of the pieces are there for a good Trek film, but the plot has a couple of gaping holes and Kirk is a pop culture stereotype of himself. The main villain is just another Shinzon. Boring, lacking menace, and inexplicably stupid. You may have fun with it where I did not.

Into Darkness is wasted potential. It's worse than 2009, because at least 2009 has a barebones workable conflict whereas Into Darkness has two competing plots that don't mesh well. Into Darkness at first appears to be a story about military adventurism, the morality of "wars of defense", an examination of black budget defense programs, and how terror can be used by those in authority to scare the people they're supposed to protect into supporting more violence.

Then it jettisons all of this for doing Wrath of Khan 2.0. My personal favorite touch is when Khan reveals who he is, and Kirk and Spock look at each other with bewilderment in their eyes. Spock then has to consult with ClassicSpock just to find out who this raving madman is who thinks they should know him by reputation.

Beyond is alright. I didn't hate it. For once I didn't find Pine insufferable. A small subplot in the movie really helps my enjoyment, and that's Kirk trying to figure out why he's there. In 2009, he joins Starfleet on a bet and is trying to live up to his father's legacy - but it's not really enough. To be in Starfleet, to go on long voyages between the stars, you need a strong motivation. ClassicKirk WANTED that command chair. Worked for it. Cast away all the things that would have prevented him from getting it, sometimes to his own detriment. This Kirk has a dare and his father, whose legacy he's more than lived up to in the previous two movies. It was time he became his own character.

The main villain and the conflict in Beyond is decent.
>>
>>55711709
Why not? Gorn weren't newly discovered
>>
>>55719800
But they were sapient.

A severed head of a vanquished foe as a trophy is kind of not the sort of thing Star Fleet does.
>>
>>55719842
To be fair, this captain is pretty clearly not the Starfleet norm.
>>
What sort of mission could you send a Prometheus class on that wasn't basically "go here and act imposing"? Also, would anyone be game to flesh out a few crew members?
>>
>>55719268
>Wrath of Khan 2.0

God I hated that movie, that "twist". I hate even the fucking actor they used. Why do people try to remake that fucking movie? They inevitably fuck it up. Let it rest

The ships in that movie looked absolutely stunning and I wanted to see them in action. The Vengeance coming out of nowhere to wreck Klingon shit would have been far more interesting than witnessing its captain reveal the fact he has chronic backstabbing disorder. Yawn, Starfleet higher ups menacing everyone, everyone knows it's bad news when they show up, that's a tired trope already. Then they take the pasty ass Khan and let him take command of the ship he designed and explicitly said can be crewed by exactly 1 person! Are these people on stupid pills? Then they destroyed the fucking enterprise what the fuck! Then they did it again in the next movie! If you wanna wreck the protagonist's legendary cool ship the rest of the movie better be Fury Road good... It just wasn't, it was a massive disappointment and wasted potential all in the name of paying "tribute" to a beloved old film.

I actually agree with them, they need ships like the Vengeance in their fleet. In the first movie the appearance of the salty romulan basically served as this timeline's version of the Borg wakeup call. However the people involved with the Vengeance are so borderline insane they manage to undo all that character development the entire timeline underwent -- by the end of the movie we got Kirk talking about fucking remembering "who they once were". It's like when they make "logical" characters act so autistic they can't recognize a joke and then pretend it's a triumph for "emotion". By the next movie all that cool technology is completely forgotten. Transporters that ignore shields? Gone. Faster warp? Goodbye. Ridiculously strong weapons? Yeah they probably wouldn't have helped against the zerg rush but still

This movie isn't just a waste of time, it makes the 1st one a waste of time too
>>
>>55720267

I totally get why people hate it. I don't hate it as much as I do 2009 because I didn't like 2009, whereas others did. I went in to Into Darkness with the lowest expectations possible and already knowing that Cucumberbun was "Khan". It's an incoherent mess, but there was something interesting underneath all that, and it's a tragedy they went for trying to remake WoK rather than make a good movie with some new ideas. Even if they'd failed it would be remembered for being different and a new take on Trek. Instead we got magic space blood and "haha, remember that OLD movie? haha".
>>
>>55720384
>magic space blood

Yeah fucking Khan's blood cures everything even death. PUT KIRK IN THE FREEZE PODS! YO SPOCK I KNOW YOU'RE HAVING A FIT OF VULCAN RAGE BUT BRING KHAN ALIVE OK?

I just wanted to see cool ships doing cool space shit!
>>
>>55720215
Any mission that has the possibility of rapid interception of multiple targets as well as a unified response. Rapid evacuation of multiple small stations or outposts, search and rescue over a large area, pirate raids on multiple targets, scientific survey of a broad area.
>>
>>55720586
Maybe base it out of Starbase 234 since it's right where Klingon, Romulan, and Federation space meet in a triad?
>>
So ever since I saw the name "T'kuvma" something's been bugging me, and I finally figured out what it was.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kuvah%27magh
It's absolutely a corruption of "The Kuvah Magh", so the STD continuity could easily be split off as a result of trying to stop the augment virus with time traveling klingon jesus. I am torn as to whether this makes STD more legit or more retarded.
>>
>>55720978
Given that the Kuvah'magh is retarded, it doesn't really help STD's case. Still, a potentially interesting catch, if it is intentional (and I am not at all convinced it is).
>>
>>55721017
Oh, of course it's retarded. But this looks like an idea the original writers were toying with that got inherited by someone that has never seen Trek, so only the name remains.
>>
Anyone mind pointing me to the archive pdf?
>>
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" Spock sat alone on the bridge, contemplating the Direidi situation. He had been following the movements of the Enterprise crew to the best of his ability, given the effects of the background radiation. Terribly illogical things were happening on the planetary surface.

Spock had known for a long time, however, that when reasoning beings were involved, "illogical" by no means meant "inexplicable." In fact, a great number of societal explanations required the suspension of logic, and sometimes working entirely outside its strictures.
He considered this fact for fifteen minutes, without moving, without blinking (once his nictitating eyelids had closed), barely even breathing. And the answer appeared--did not merely suggest itself as a possibility, but leaped from the situation fully formed.
The solution was logical. But it was the logic of a situation, of a particular social dynamic: as different from abstract mathematical logic as a living organism was different from a crystal of carbon. Not the logic that states baldly that if p := q, then not p := not q, but the sort that causes a Vulcan diplomat to choose a human woman as life companion and mother of his child.

Ensign Oppenheimer and Lieutenant Crispin looked up as the science officer walked by. Commander Spock seemed oblivious to them, utterly lost in thought. He had a curious expression.
"Now there's something you don't see every day," Oppenheimer said softly.
"Yeah," Crispin said. "Looks like he's trying to...laugh."
"Naaah," they said together, and went back to work."


And this is why John M. Ford is enshrined in my heart. Not because of the Andorians (although he's entirely responsible for their characterization), but because of "How Much for Just the Planet".
>>
>>55720957
Could put it on Cardassian space, dealing with colonists from both sides, loyalists to the old Cardassian regime, random pirates taking advantage of the post-war chaos, and any other nearby factions.
>>
>>55721259
>>55720957
>>55720586
Honestly? That sounds exactly like anti-Maquis/Dominion-aligned Cardie holdout work. Both use fast flotillas of lighter ships and "scatter" tactics in combat. The Prometheus is over-engined (to run them down) and multi-vector (to chase fracturing formations without making itself vulnerable to flanking attacks). It can use the same harrying tactics against Dominion dreadnoughts or other heavy ships, and effectively cut their shields by hitting from multiple directions.

Plus it can scan an entire solar system much, much faster than a single bird if you're still pretending to do a SCIENCE with it.
>>
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>>55721259
That reminds me. Is there any info on what the Cardassians were doing in TOS/STD time?
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>>55721648
Most likely busy backstabbing each other while the Obsidian Order laughs in the background?
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>>55721648
We know there was a Cardassian living on Vulcan, but we don't know what the Cardassians as a whole were doing in hard canon.
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>>55721648
Dying of famine and getting butthurt the Bajorans have it so much better than them.
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>>55721648
That was about the time that the Hebitians were falling apart due to external hostilities and famine on Cardassia. So the Military Junta that would take over is probably in its infancy around the time of TOS.
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>>55721648
They were just a minor power doing their own thing. They had already made contact with Bajor and their solar sailers and were probably starting to realize that Bajor was a class bound shithole with a lot of really nice resources that weren't being used.
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>>55716749
Ad then Enterprise brought in the time Shenanigans and it was the same bullshit you claim they claim they were trying to avoid.
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>>55722316
Enterprise is hardly the first to involve time travel. Though tit was probably the worst if you can look past the campiness of TOS time travel episodes.
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>>55722337
I mean they set the show in that time period specifically to avoid things that they then constantly did.
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>>55708646
Love this ep, love these guys.
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>>55721252
Fine. You convinced me. I placed the order.
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>>55721708
>We know there was a Cardassian living on Vulcan
Wait, what? How do we know this?
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>>55722606
One of Dax's former hosts met a banished Cardassian poet on Vulcan roughly a century before DS9.
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>>55722630
Ah, cool.
There's a Cardie in the monkey paw repair station in ENT so they've been around since at least then.
>>
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>>55716770
They seem to have abandoned the idea of Vulcans being super fucking strong as well. Oh, and being able to telepathically control people from a distance.
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>>55722699
>They seem to have abandoned the idea of Vulcans being super fucking strong as well.
DS9 and VOY had Vulcan strength being a plot point, and iirc ENT referenced it once or twice.
Mind meld at a distance is hax bullshit though and I'm glad they ignored it later on.
>>
>>55717633
>Rodd
It does kind of fit with out things work in Star Trek though.

Telepathic abilities working across radically different species isn't just limited to a couple odd TOS mind melds. Species 8472 can make telepathic contact with humanoid. Troi could pick up the emotions of the 2D lifeforms that presumably didn't have any sort of traditional central nervous system.

The many non-corporeal entities prove that consciousness can exist independently of a physical body. Not just that a neural pattern can be copies from one vessel to another, but that a mind can exist on its own without any kind of "hardware."
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>>55718761
>after she got possessed by that warlord guy and finally ditched the self-propelled trash fire that is Nelix.
Man was that botched though. She broke up with Nelix when she wasn't in control of her body and they just let it stick without another comment. I remember thinking I'd accidentally skipped an episode, pausing the one I was on, and going back and trying to find the missing one, because it made no sense.
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>>55722729
>DS9 and VOY had Vulcan strength being a plot point
I think I remember it being mentioned, but I'm not sure I remember it actually ever being demonstrated. Was Tuvok or T'pol ever actually shown to be really strong? Because surely there was ample opportunity.

>Mind meld at a distance is hax bullshit though and I'm glad they ignored it later on.
Sure. TOS liked to just invent new shit for Spock will-nilly. There would be an episode involving bright lights, and they'd give him an extra pair of eyelids.
>>
>>55721418
While not a bad idea, I feel like it kinda forces the role of peacekeeper on said Prometheus. I know they're damn well designed for combat, but it saddens me to see combat-only type ships. Don't get me wrong, things like the Defiant are still cool, but missions that boil down to "go here, shoot things a lot as needed" are kinda boring to me. Especially so since I'd love a reason to introduce a Prometheus into an STA game, either as the player's ship or another that's in their sector.
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>>55722729
They mention Vulcans being three times strong than humans in the DS9 episode where they play baseball against a Vulcan ship's crew.

Their strength just doesn't come up that often because it usually isn't necessary. In an unarmed fight Vulcans just nerve pinch. If they need to break something they have phasers.
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>>55722877
The multi-vector nature of the Prometheus means it doesn't have to just be a combat-only ship. Search and rescue missions, exploration missions, crisis management situations, even gruntwork like ferrying resources to colony worlds is made easier, and if you keep the holo-emitters on every deck then it's almost perfectly modular as long as you don't fall into the "holodeck episode" trap.
>>
>that awkward feeling when the first five minutes of tonight's Orville is 10x more Star Trek than the entirity of Discovery
Feels Burnham, man.
>>
>Bajoran's invent solar sail ships in the 16th century
>Still using the same sort of ship in the 22nd century

I'm not saying the Cardassians were right, but you can kind of see their point about the Bajorans having a stagnant culture.
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>>55722926
>the "holodeck episode" trap
Meaning what exactly? I have an idea but you know what they say about assuming
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>>55722926

>ferrying resources to colony worlds
>tiny as fuck
>even smaller when in vector mode

I think you might be ascribing the Prometheus way more internal space than it actually has anon. Some of that internal volume is going to be the extra reactors necessary to power each independent part (so, extra impulse reactors for the impulse engines, extra M/AM reactors to power the warp nacelles - all six of 'em). And that doesn't even get into the fact that the connected ship has massive sections cut off by the hulls of the various pieces.

For cargo, a Galaxy is much, much better. Bigger, has bigger spaces internally.
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>>55723115
On multiple occasions crew members end up getting stuck in a simulation without realizing it is one.
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>>55723115
Basically don't take advantage of the holo-emitters by turning the entire ship into a deathtrap because that's just cheap drama.

>>55723128
While it doesn't have as much internal space, being able to split apart means it can ferry smaller amounts of cargo to multiple targets in the same or less time as it would take one larger ship to make a full round trip. Obviously that's not going to be its primary mission, but the players could get a "Okay you're not busy right now, we need a quick resupply to these three colony worlds" as the starting point for a new adventure.
>>
>>55717183
So they're midichlorians?
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>>55723128
Do we ever get an actual number on how many crew it has and/or how many cargobays/shuttlebays there are?
>>
>>55708646
I really liked that episode, its one of my favorite. Quite sad there at the end. Like the one where Picard lives the entire life of some guy whose planet is dying.
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>>55719800
>Why not? Gorn weren't newly discovered
They haven't been discovered yet in Dicovery's time. The TOS Gorn episode was first contact with them.
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>>55723261
Ahaha. Just glanced over the Memory Alpha page for the gorn.
>Captain Frowny had a carcass in his trophy room in 2256
>The Gorn's first contact with the prime reality Federation took place in 2267, when the Gorn attacked a Federation colony on Cestus III.

Truly, STD is a thing of beauty.
>>
>>55723297
>Memory Alpha putting examples from the JJTrek movies in prime continuity pages
Fucking idiots.
>>
>>55723297
Enterprise was far from perfect, but at least it wasn't written by drooling troglodites that can't even do simply fact checks.
>The Gorn were originally to have been featured as the villains in the 2001 Enterprise episode "The Andorian Incident". One reason why their role in the story was replaced with the Andorians was that the Gorn, unlike the Andorians, were considered to be unable to talk. Near the end of Enterprise's first season, staff writer Mike Sussman offered, "Before we decided to have the Andorians, we all talked about doing the Gorn [....] But when we looked at the show, it was decided by Rick [Berman] and Brannon [Braga] that it was pretty clear that Captain Kirk's run-in was the first time anyone had seen a Gorn. So, as much as we would love to use them, it doesn't fit with what's been established, so they're kind of off the table for us."
>>
>>55723261
>>55723297
Enterprise has an Orion privateer mention them 102 years earlier. But Captain 31 couldn't have bought/traded/confiscated it from anyone; he must have made contact with living Gorn to get a partial skeleton.
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>>55723369
Mentioned, yes, but Kirk's encounter was the Federation's first contact. Hearing about the junga-lunga's who make bongo juice from an Orion privateer is one thing. Having the preserved body of one is a little different.
>>
>>55722649
Cardassians were also observed by the Organians in the Enterprise season 4 episode Observer Effect.
>>
>>55723087
Gets even better. They later use their starship's weapons not to murder civilians or disintegrate orphanages but to illuminate an interstellar natural phenomenon that which they escape with a mixture of adventuring piloting and innovative use of technology. Meanwhile in STD
>SHOUTINGS, LOTS OF SHOUTING
>KILL, KILL, THIS IS WAAAAR
>EXTERMINATE ALIENS
Christ, STD feels like 40k compared to this.
>>
>>55723395
A little different, yes, but still doesn't violate TOS being their first contact with each other.
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>>55723470
I for one am delighted to finally see a 40k television show, one about the Imperial Navy vs. the orks no less. The main character being raised by the Adeptus Mechanicus was a nice bit of character development as well.
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>>55723560
Nah, raised by Eldar. Kooky aliens with a boner for being emotionless that are the best Xeno allies of humanity. Albeit that "best" means something completely different between the two settings. And I guess I could say that she was raised by Jokearo, but that's really more of a nigger joke than anything else.
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>>55723470

Jesus, MacFarlane is swinging for the fences. If he can just dial in the jokes and clean the pacing up a little bit, he'll be the hero Star Trek needs.
>>
>>55723169

I still don't see the point of using a Prometheus to ferry supplies outside of extremely rare time-sensitive materials in small amounts that can't be replicated on site. Almost any other ship equipped with runabouts would be better.

Would there be any reason outside of non-replicable medical supplies, dilithium, or anti-matter to divert a warship with limited science labs, replicators, and storage space to make use of its warp 9.9 capabilities when warp 8 or 9 and a bigger ship might do?

>>55723226

We don't know a whole lot about the Prometheus class. It's 414 meters long (a little shorter than the Excelsior which is 466 meters). It can travel at warp 9.9, making it the fastest (outside of one time fuckery, transwarp, or the QSD) ship we've seen onscreen. It can BTFO a Nebula and multiple warbirds. Pic related is the MSD for it.

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Prometheus_class
>>
>>55723087
I wonder if the people who say this could even define what exactly Star Trek is, and how that definition can encompass both shows like TOS and shows like DS9.
>>
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>>55723669

Forgot my pic apparently.
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>>55723669
It wasn't supposed to be something they'd do regularly, the idea was something like "all our other ships are busy right now and you're not, so I'm getting you to ferry a few supplies so they're on time, shouldn't be a big deal" as the lead in a real story.
>>
>>55723717

Fair enough.
>>
>>55723681
What I note here is the lack of anything that resembles crew quarters or science labs. Granted, the actual Prometheus in the episode of VOY had all of 4 crewmen aboard, and that the ship has to be laid out to support breaking into three pieces, but it's still super barren.
>>
>>55723661
Yeah, I mean I expected the humor to be a lot more obnoxious than it was. As is, it felt pretty tame for him in this episode. And I even got a few snickers out of some of the various jokes, even if a bunch fell flat.

And even just the premise was pretty interesting and felt well-conceived. Space salvagers from the future who go back in time to privateer vessels that would otherwise be lost due to natural phenomena.

>>55723673
Well, I'm a little lukewarm on DS9, honestly. But to me it's a show about a crew of diverse people from varied backgrounds coming together to solve issues that face them on a mission that is focused upon something other than a militaristic crusade. A show about people using ingenuity and teamwork to overcome adversity. A show that always has a positive view of both humanity and the future.
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>>55723771
You'd think it would have some crew quarters seeing as how it was meant to ferry the voyager crew compliment home.
>>
>>55723669
>>55723771

Seems I get to eat some of my own words. From the MA article:

>The science Lab on the Prometheus is the largest and most advanced science Lab on board a federation starship.

Despite this apparently being canon, it seems really dumb when huge ships like the Galaxy class and Nebula exist and there's no reason they couldn't have enormous science labs with almost no premium on space.

Sometimes what people write for Trek just don't make any damn sense.
>>
>>55723786
I wouldn't say DS9 always has a positive outlook on humanity. In fact it goes out of it's way to show how flawed human nature can be. Our ability to be complacent with actions we know are morally wrong for the greater good. Look at the episode Paradise Lost. our fear and paranoia over the changelings infiltration makes use systematically take away the very freedoms we fought to reinstate after crawling out of the ashes of WW3
>>
>>55723837
Which again, I said I'm not that hot on DS9, and I generally don't consider it in the same breathe as the rest of Star Trek. Much like I don't consider the last season of Andromeda with the rest of the series. DS9 is very clearly a deconstruction of Star Trek, from the very different themes right down to being a station rather than an exploratory vessel.
>>
>>55723833
So what you're saying is, Starfleet could send out a single Prometheus on a long-term mission (~2 years) into unexplored space (maybe the Shackleton Expanse for STA) without issue. It'd be able to defend itself, do tons of research, and scan sectors in a third of the time.
>>
>>55723874

Basically. I guess the Nova, Intrepid, Nebula, Miranda, and Excelsior classes can all get mothballed. Still need the Galaxy for big jobs, and the Defiants can work as replacements to the Miranda. The Sovereign can handle literally anything else.
>>
>>55723874
This may be beyond the scope of setting up a STA game, but I think we need to define what advantage there is to sending a Prometheus when you could just send three Novas instead.
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>>55723866
Yeah but I believe it was able to explore those different themes without losing what quintessentially made it Trek. While Sisko is a different kind of commanding officer than say pcard you can still see that rigid tempered-like Starfleet Offcier training in him.
>>
>>55723944
Fair enough.
>>
>>55723788
That was a different ship. Prometheus was where Voyager finally made contact with home, at pretty much the exact half-way mark of the show.
>>
Looking back at the episode lists it's actually quite impressive the amount of outright exploration DS9 managed.

Granted much of that was simply in the early seasons before the wormhole became a no-go area, but it's certainly comparable to much of TNG, where really they spent far more time turning up to problem places that were already know than just plain exploring exploring.
>>
>>55724132
Thats because the Enterprise was the flagship of Starfleet and couldn't really be sent off to the actual frontiers to explore. Whereas the DS9 crew were lucky enough to have an entire unexplored quadrant of space dropped in their lap.
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>>55723908
I don't think we need to go that far. These ships probably cost a pretty penny in both materials in time to make. For every 1 Prometheus they can probably make 2-3 Intrepids, 5-6 Novas, and so on.

>>55723912
Well, isn't the point that the Prometheus *can* do the job of three Novas?
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>>55716952
That seems about right.
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>>55717442
I can believe that the people making STD forgot that Andor is a frozen moon.
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>>55717442
Well...actually, now that I think about it, we know from establishing shots in several ENT episodes that the Andorian homeworld is a moon orbiting a gas giant. The Star Trek Star Charts established the home system as Procyon, a binary star system.

So possibly, Andoria refers to the planet. Andor (the moon) is tidally locked on the dark side of the planet, or else otherwise doesn't get a lot of sunlight from Procyon A, the main star (a white main-sequence star) (though it may get some sun from Procyon B, a faint white dwarf). Other Andorian moons, on the other hand, might have more typical orbits.
>>
These two better make an appearance at some point on STD.
>>
>>55725443
Not within the first season and very unlikely in any season after that. And if by a long shot they make it in the won't look anything like that.
>>
>>55725492
>implying STD will get multiple seasons
Sorry, anon. But it's too hard to catch STD, and I doubt we'll see regular outbreaks.
>>
>>55725525
CBS has the pockets to force through at least 3 seasons. Now the real uncertainty is whether or not CBS All Access manages to scrape enough subscribers together to stay afloat. if it doesn't I fully expect CBS to drop the show back to Cable
>>
>>55723837
>>55723866
The whole point of "Paradise Lost" is that the good guys win, despite the flaws of humanity. Just because people have flaws in DS9 doesn't mean it isn't a positive outlook on humanity. If anything it's more positive than, say, TNG, for the very fact that it shows people still working to overcome flaws that are very present, in a realistic manner. It shows that even present-day people (not persons, but people) can either overcome our flaws, or succeed around them. Just because Our Heroes aren't perfectly perfect, just because the show was a little realistic, just because the show had a dark episode or two, doesn't mean the show didn't have the positive outlook on humanity. Even the Dominion War arc was resolved, not through military might, but by various groups of people doing the right thing they could do in their situations, even if that right thing was dangerous, or less convenient than something else.
>>
>>55725629
I agree and if you notice my post is also in agreement. The post i was replying to said "A show that always has a positive view of both humanity and the future."
i was simply saying that isn't the case and that is shows both the positive and negatives.
>>
>>55720267
>The Vengeance coming out of nowhere to wreck Klingon shit

I feel you don't really get Trek.

>Then they take the pasty ass Khan

This, on the other hand, is a legitimate complaint. The guy's name is Khan Noonien Singh. He's culturally a Sikh. He's from Central Asia. Why in God's green Earth is he played by what may be the whitest man on the planet?

>they need ships like the Vengeance in their fleet

The thing is literally designed to be an evil starship, dude. It's ground-up modeled on everything the Federation is not. Plus when it first shows up its fucking "eye" narrows as it focuses on the Enterprise.

Having starships capable of defending themselves is good, but Starfleet should not have dedicated warships with that level of power. It's not supposed to be that kind of franchise.

>This movie isn't just a waste of time

To be honest...you know the opening, on planet Nibiru? That was the best of the Kelvin timeline so far. Why could THAT have been the Into Darkness movie? Stretch that out over two hours?

>>55723837
DS9 showed that humans were flawed, but I think it still basically fell on the idea that humans have become fundamentally good.

In your own example of Paradise Lost, for example, it's primarily humans that stop the military takeover of Starfleet, even as much as it's humans who were causing it.

>>55724490
>Well, isn't the point that the Prometheus *can* do the job of three Novas?

I never understood why, if you're building something that can function as three different ships, you don't just build three different ships and then just have them always operate together.
>>
>>55725693
Again I wasn't arguing that DS9 only showed the flawed nature of humanity but rather the whole spectrum of our humanity. It was the post i was replying to that was asserting DS9 only showed the positive side.
>>
>>55725693
Because Gattai is always stronker, so having gattai being the default state is best.
>>
>>55725693
>I never understood why, if you're building something that can function as three different ships, you don't just build three different ships and then just have them always operate together
Because at that point you'd have the beginnings of a fleet, and that's a whole can of worms. Think of it this way: if you're some Beta Quadrant species that's never even met the Federation before, would you rather 1 Prometheus or 3 Nebula in orbit above your homeworld?
>>
Watching Orville episode 5 right now. TNG as fuck! Even a nice like cocktail party you could picture in 10 Forward
>>
>>55725881
Yeah, that episode was fantastic. And miles above anything than STD has given us. Except for AIDS!
>>
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>>55710221
>Picard, his head in his hand.
>>
>>55723681
>that computer interface design

Why don''t computers look like this TODAY
>>
>>55722863
Tuvok threw Borg drones around and made a bow Torres couldn't draw during the caveman episode. T'Pol usually just made cow eyes at things and got high.
>>
>>55725587
There's going to be a one year gap between S1 and S2.
>>
>>55725693
Well I just feel like ANYTHING would have been better than the crappy movie we got.

The movie series start with a vastly superior romulan ship showing up out of nowhere and without any provocation it straight up murdered a Federation ship on the day Kirk was born. It might as well have been the Borg. It makes total sense for the Federation to develop weapons technology in this timeline. At least it made sense up until the point Into Darkness proved how fucking idiotic the Starfleet higher ups can be once they get their hands on shiny new war ships. This subplot about weapons development is much more interesting to me than the half-assed Khan rehash.

>why could THAT have been the Into Darkness movie

I dunno why. I guess the director thought it would bore people to tears. I for one wanted to see them maneuver the ship into that sea without violating the prime directive. How did they do that?
>>
>>55726730
That's not gonna help their numbers. Discovery is supposed to be All Access' flagship show. They're even breaking season one down into 2 parts with part one finishing in November at hiatus.
>>
>>55725930
>it's a woman accuses riker of raping her episode

That was cringeworthy
>>
>>55726761
my favorite part about that episode was that it confirmed Troi as a hack when she flat out says the lady who accuses Riker is telling the truth.
>>
>>55726942
She's not a full telepath. She's half human. She can only sense emotions. People can lie to the point where they themselves believe the lie.
>>
>>55726743
>it straight up murdered a Federation ship on the day Kirk was born
Wait, I thought the time travel dude showed up as Kirk was graduating. Fuck is he doing for 22 years?
>>
>>55726954
>>55726942
She's also a better therapist than empath, she got Broccoli to a point where he could speak lines in front of an audience.
>>
>>55727155
Newborn Kirk and his mother are literally being shoved into an escape pod as his Father suicides into the bigger ship. I believe he was spending those 22 years gathering enough Red Matter to destroy Vulcan.
>>
>>55727210
According to deleted (but canon) scenes, Angry Romulan Miner and his buddies were captured by the Klingons and were chilling for 20 years on Rura Penthe, a desolate and rocky world nothing like the one from ST:VI.
>>
>>55727312
Well that doesn't make any sense. The Klingons would have started to take his ship apart to reverse engineer what they could. At the very least they'd be interested in what the databanks held. After finding out its from an alternate future now way would he have gotten it back.
>>
>>55727312
To be fair, it could have more than one climate.
>>
>>55725930
Meme language is very good for expressing sentiment when other people know your memes. But there's no conceivable way to express detailed information about a current situation, express ideas that are themselves new or teach anyone what your memes are.
>>
>>55726743
For me it went completely off the rails when Vengeance chased them to earth. Nothing about that made sense.

>Earth is just minutes away from Qo'noS
>Admiral Bad Guy still believes he can away with claiming the Enterprise went rogue, when anyone with a backyard telescope could see what was happening
>Jamming stops them from talking to Starfleet when they're right above earth, but they CAN get through to New Vulcan
>>
>>55727478
I could argue most of those claims, but the movie was so awful I won't bother. We can both agree that it's shit and that's good enough for me.
>>
>>55727465
The episode has Dathon seeming to understand the story of Gilgamesh and Enkidu, so they probably understand stories and allusion to stories but not personal account. The sheer implausibility of this can be swept under the rug with "lol ego structure."
Beta canon has their music and their scientific and mathematical language being the same thing.
>>
>>55727356
Yeah, according to the deleted scene the Klingons had just been sitting on this super ship for two decades. It also makes it seem like Nero could have escaped whenever he wanted, and was just waiting for proper motivation.
>>
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>>55726486
>Why don''t computers look like this TODAY
..Dude, you know there's an LCARS front end out there right now for most Windows and Android devices, not to mention anything running ANY 'Nix flavor with a touchscreen, right?

>>55726716
>T'Pol usually just made cow eyes at things and got high.
T'Pol was also desperately afraid of herself and of being "Vulcan" after the first like three episodes. Reapproaching that took most of the show. Besides, if half the crew resented you, do you think casually displaying super-strength would >help?<
I know, it's a shitty patch on shitty writing, but give a guy a break.
>>
So, is there a reason that Starfleet Security doesn't seem to wear any form of personal armor or personal shields in-universe?
>>
>>55729971
Three reasons, actually.
1: Starfleet, as has been mentioned repeatedly, is basically just NASA on steroids; not a military organization, just following military hierarchy structure as NASA does. Body armor sets a militarized image they dislike to show.
2: On a more practical note, body armor is for the most part useless in the 23rd and 24th centuries; weapons technology has advanced to the point where only on the lighter settings does it actually matter. Example; at one point Riker mentions that at maximum power and spread his Type-2 hand phaser would "take out a good-sized chuck of this building", which is an extreme case and would probably be dumping the entire power cell into the shot, but even at slightly less overcharged settings disruptors and phasers can turn glancing hits into disintegrating shots or blow apart human bodies entirely. In effect, the Bigger Gun/Better Armor equation has REALLY tilted in favor of Bigger Gun in personal combat by Star Trek's time, even moreso then today.
3: They actually CAN make personal-scale shields but there's apparently significant problems with power supply and energy drain. Starfleet can set them up, but they could fail completely at any time since not only do they drain a lot of power just by being on, but power consumption increases the more damage it takes; all a soldier really needs to do is crank up the phaser or disruptor setting (or even just hit it more then once) and the battery will short out pretty quickly and you're suddenly just as defenseless as everyone else. The only species that seem to have circumvented this problem are the Borg, who are so many levels of technological magnitude above Starfleet (who are otherwise the most advanced in the setting) that it's not even funny.
4: They actually DO have body armor, you see it in a few of the movies. They only put it on in serious situations though and as example 2 has pointed out, it basically doesn't stop them from getting killed very much at all.
>>
>>55729971
>>55730073
As far as I'm aware there's only a few exceptions, most of them probably considered non-canon.

Both Star Trek Elite Force games have pretty heavily shielded and armoured Security officers.

STO uses a variety of powered armour suits and heavy personal shielding, but the game is set well beyond the DS9/VOY era.

STD shows body armour on its security personal, and even on away teams.
The effectiveness of this is debatable, but they're not getting shot at much, just stabbed by angry Klingons so far.
>>
>>55729971
In Ensigns of Command Data uses a hand phaser to create a good-size explosion on a mountain miles away. Armor is as useless as in 19th century warfare, and until the kevlar equivalent is invented will continue to be so.
I think it's mentioned somewhere that the standard uniforms can stop small arms fire for what it's worth.
>>
>>55730106
The body armor shows up in one of the TOS Trek films, VI I believe.
Along with those badass black Type-2 Phasers.
>>
>>55730235
>The body armor shows up in one of the TOS Trek films, VI I believe.
Yup. After Valeris nukes the mashed potatoes a couple security guards show up in torso and head armor. There's also the armored EVA suits they use to assassinate the Klinks, and a few armored guards in the Khitomer room (though not any armored Feddies)

>Along with those badass black Type-2 Phasers.
Gotta love the Type-2 movie redesign. The numbered buttplates make me happy.
>>
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>>55730302
"Stunt" casting Type-II from the SSFM collection. The "Hero" props had the coils inside the barrel shroud painted silver.
>>
>>55730106
Personal shields are mentioned in DS9, in the episode with the coupe on Earth. It's mentioned that Starfleet security officers are being issued personal shields for patrol.
They may have very limited range or require specialized infrastructure to function.
>>
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>>55730332
"Rifle" version mockup. This was originally intended for something in STV.
>>
>>55727155
Salty romulan spent that time generally fucking off. He was wating for future Spock to show up through the wormhole, which happened like 20 years later on the exact day of the Enterprise's maiden voyage. Kirk wasn't even supposed to be on the ship
>>
>>55730302
>Gotta love the Type-2 movie redesign. The numbered buttplates make me happy.
In my 2395 game we're doing with my group the Federation (after repeated short-term wars during the TNG era, especially the Dominion War), the Federation has switched back to pistol-type phasers based on that design (with added functionality) rather then the awkward Dust-Buster phasers as a bow to practicality, though the Type-3 rifles are still like the ones seen in Nemesis.
It's basically Starfleet acknowledging that they're not a military but if they absolutely HAVE to fight then they might as well do it as efficiently as possible to quickly end conflicts.
>>
>>55730691
>2395
That's an oddly specific date.
>>
>>55730698
It's when the future bit of All Good Things takes place.
>>
>>55727478
Yeah if there was somehow ANY doubt Crack Admiral had gone insane, his torpedoing of a friendly vessel, let alone the fucking Enterprise, RIGHT IN FRONT OF EARTH, ought to have summoned the entire Starfleet on his ass right then and there to demand explanations. What we got instead is "lmao align the ships and space jump with Khan"
>>
>>55730698
It's roughly 30 years after the beginning of TNG which not coincidentally is the same length of time it has been since TNG aired, and we even started our game on the 30th Anniversary of TNG.

Basically the galaxy has finally recovered from the Dominion War, but the political balance is altered; the arduous process of rebuilding the Klingon Empire after so many losses has left Chancellor Martok in an unstable position, leading to lots of Klingon colonists and pirates breaking off to explore/colonize/conquer new territory rather then obey a politically shaky leader. The Romulans are now top dog amongst the "bad guys" again (ignoring the destruction of Romulus that happened in the Abrams films) with the Klingons fractured, and seem to be gearing up for war or expansion, while the Federation after finally rebuilding is now exploring and colonizing more of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants after spending so much of the 2370's managing politics and wars closer to home.
>>
>>55730715
Smart guy.
Not even my group figured out why I picked that exact date instead of just 2400.
>>
>>55730739
I just Google'd "star trek chronology" and checked if anything happens then.
>>
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Huh. I didn't know Troi could do that.
>>
>>55715036
not to sound like a fool but where would "killjoys" fit, or is it more action than sci-fi
>>
>>55730790
Id put Killjoys around the same level as Dark Matter. I definitely prefer Killjoys to DM, but I wouldn't say it's as good as the Expanse.
>>
>>55730789
She's the chief psychologist and a Lieutenant Commander, she has more than enough options to relieve someone from duty if she sees the need for it.
>>
>>55730806
that's fair, killjoys is a little less sci-fi since it focusses on boots on the ground action rather than space battles
>>
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>>55730302
Some of you guys are ok, don't go to Qo'nos tomorrow.
>>
>>55730789
You be glad she didn't use her commissar pistol to relieve him of duty.
>>
>>55730914
The Dave is is disgruntled and that makes me nervous.
>>
>>55730806
At this point, I'd put Killjoys much lower if only because of bitterness towards SyFy for canceling Dark Mater while keeping that pile of shit. Well, also because I don't really care for Killjoys.
>>
>>55724132
What's the community like on Theurgy?

I know one of the guys photo shops naked models into various star trek races, so from the outside looking in it seems like the perfect storm of magical realm and GMs that crawled up their own ass, but I could be wrong.
>>
>>55718761
She was a much more interesting character than Harry Kim. Kim should have been booted off the show rather than Kes.
>>
>>55731892
I have no idea, I just trawl Deviantart for images now an again and came across it as an interesting repository of room plans and character shoops that were noticeably higher quality than the typical dreck.
>>
>>55732426
Those shops are pretty typical senpai
>>
Actually according to the IDW comic called "Star trek: Nero", thats semi canon and tells what happened for those 22 years, The klinks DID try to reverse engineer the ship, but couldnt. Any time they sliced something out of it to try and reverse engineer it, the ship repaired itself and the sliced section dissolved. They couldnt even crack the computer open, since its a mishmash of Borg Assimilated Romulan parts. Of course, Nero and his crew, witht he help of drugs and having nothing better to do while being tortured, gained psychic powers, kinda like the vulcans. The crew could talk to each other and Nero.. melded with the ship kind of? Used it to escape, Narada has its controls locked out by V'ger, gets sent to the edge of the delta quadrant, finds V'ger, uses it to find out where and when spock will drop out of the wormhole and there we go.
>>
>>55727155
>>55727210
>>55727312
>>55727356
Fuck, >>55732716 Was meant to be a reply to those.
>>
>>55732581
When the average is so low quality, the semi-competent is king.
>>
>>55724490
What if that absurd 'split the ship into three parts' gimmick was just how the engineers had to pitch the idea to the admirality to be granted the resources for their overpriced three-warp-cores, holoemitters-on-every-deck design?
>>
>>55725817
That answer depends entirely on my own level of tech development. But I figure any scans of the Prometheus are going to reveal the absurd firepower it's packing for its size. In that context, I'd rather three ships with average firepower for their size, to one ship that seems massively overpowered.

I suppose it's the difference between trusting three guys with handguns saying that they come in peace; or one guy with a bazooka who says the same thing, though.
>>
>>55732898
>or one guy with a bazooka

Actually, more like one guy with several handguns, an AR-15, grenades, and a bazooka, come to think of it.

>>55727586 >>55727465
I accept that they just wanted to do a "two people who don't share a language trying to communicate and learn about each other" episode, but the Universal Translator made that difficult. Rather than go through the rigamarole of explaining why the UT has been completely unable to translate the Tamarian language for decades now, they just invented the meme language, which also had the nice side-effect of allow Picard and Dathon to learn about each other in a way that the audience could also understand.

Alternatively:

>If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
>And other science facts (la la la)
>Just repeat to yourself "it's just a show
>"I should really just relax!"
>>
>>55732881
>capt. SANIC
>orders captain?
>WARP 11
>heading?
>GOTTA GO FAST
>>
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>>55732881
>Sonictrekker

>>55732883
The older I get, the more I understand economic systems, the more I realise that Roddenberry's utopian vision is bureaucratic hell.
https://youtu.be/jgRlzFIgm1E?t=1m40s
>>
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>>55732883
I can buy that. After all, not everyone on the Admiralty is human, presumably, but I'm willing to bet every single one of the Prometheus' designers were.
>>
>>55732402
I felt Kim worked as the "every man" character, although I suppose Tom has that role too.
>>
>>55718761
The whole thing about her being 2 and half the male cast lusting after her made it all a little awkward though.
>>
>>55732990
That is a brilliant image, saved.
It explains so many odd things about how the Federation works in Star Trek, just awesome.
>>
>>55732981
Now I'm just imagining it going through the kind of design process that the Bradley did.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
>>
So the Orville's top speed is about warp 9.9997 and a bit.

Shit's fast.
>>
>>55733228
Reminds me of something else.
>>
>>55733274
They said "over" 10 light years per hour, but let's keep it at 10 ly/hour for easy math. If they can sustain that speed, that would mean crossing the entire Milky Way (100,000 ly) in just 416.67 days.

The closest major galaxy to the solar system, Andromeda, would be still be 10,416.67 days (28.52 years) away, though, so the Union probably doesn't do too much there. The Canis Major overdensity, though, is only 25,000 lightyears away, so only a little bit more than 3 months at a sustained speed of 10 ly/hour.

The Union may well be bigger than the Federation. Like, notably so.
>>
>>55733477
It's also more likely just a number they tossed out.
>>
>>55730914
Why would I go to that feudalistic shithole? I'm off to Cardassia Prime
>>
>>55733539
Eh, Seth's an autistic Trekhead and if that was tossed out in the episode I think it was, it was directed by Riker.
>>
>>55733477
I'd also suggest it's way less 'full' than the Federation.
>>
>tfw then bridge crew of the Orville has 3 or so aliens while Discover just as the Raped Horse
>>
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>>55730233
It can't stop arrows though.
>>
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>>55733838
Oddly enough that's a problem with modern ballistic fabrics too.
>>
>>55733623
Maybe - there's been a pretty large representation of sapient aliens so far, in keeping with a series that veers towards high results for the Drake Equation.

Side note, just finished Orville episode 5. Hot damn do I love this show. Is anyone running a game of it using Star Trek Adventures yet?

Still haven't watched any of STD yet. My life kind of sucks at the moment overall and Orville and weekly D&D sessions are the only things that put me in a good mood. I don't need that ruined by syphilis.
>>
>>55733889
There's a large representation but things seem fairly spread out, with that base being 5 days away works out somewhere like 1000 light-years for a rough estimate.

Seems like someone remembered Space is Big.
>>
>>55733889
>Still haven't watched any of STD yet. My life kind of sucks at the moment overall and Orville and weekly D&D sessions are the only things that put me in a good mood. I don't need that ruined by syphilis.
Low expectations were my key to kind of enjoying STD. It helps if you view it as a show that's building on the Star Trek framework rather than actually trying to be Star Trek in tone, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a legit Star Trek show, but it can still be entertaining despite that. I have fears about where the show will ultimately end up, but thus far, it's decent at least.
>>
>>55734400
If you ignore the fact that it is marketed as a Star Trek show and assume it is some other kind of gritty sci-fi show then it is almost passable. Mostly, it's pretty mediocre at best and pretty terrible at worst.
>>
>>55734486
Pretty hard to forget though since it keeps trying to shove it in your face when watching through references.

There's too many better things to do than waste time watching mediocre tv. Including doing nothing.
>>
>>55732402
That was actually the plan. It was some magazine poll ranking the actor one of the hottest guys on TV (no, I don't see it either) that saved him.

>>55733274
>So the Orville's top speed is about warp 9.9997 and a bit.
>Shit's fast.
Voyager's special go fast juice, which is actually in the ballpark of warp 9.9997, is Quantum Slipstream Drive. QSD favors ship geometries that look like plastic Starfleet ship models left out in the sun too long.

Enter the Orville and its quantum drive.
>>
>>55732990
I think a simpler explanation is the old "the more complex something is, the more things can go wrong with it".
The Trek universe has gotten REALLY complex, especially where Starfleet is concerned.
>>
>>55735332
That's the philosophical difference in a nutshell. Other species in Trek don't typically start trusting critical systems until most of those bugs have been worked out. It's like the difference between a guy in 2017 programming COBOL and one using nightly builds of node.js fresh from Github.
>>
>Page 9
Red Alert, all hands abandon thread.
>>55735478
>>55735478
>>55735478
>>
>>55733838
Kevlar can't either, arrows have less kinetic energy but concentrate it in a smaller point.




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