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Previous thread: >>55828572

>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
http://www.mtgcommander.net

>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
http://www.tappedout.net

>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the the internet.
http://www.edhrec.com/

>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.
http://manabasecrafter.com/

CARD SEARCH

>Official search site. Current for all sets.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/

>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface.
http://magiccards.info/

>Thread question
How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
>>
>>55837343
>How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
I guess that depends on the definition of 'hate'. We all pack reasonable things where possible- your Disenchant effects, Beast Within, Wraths, some graveyard hate. "Broad" stuff. But I don't think anybody plays cards that are specifically to thunderfuck one strategy or deck, beyond "graveyard", but that's because it's such a common thing that I think basically any deck needs a Relic of Progenitus at minimum.
>>
What are the most fun monocoloured generals?

I already have monoblack (Toshi, might get turned into big mana bloodchief drana eventually), and I'm enjoying it. Figure I might as well have my next decks follow in a logical series.
>>
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How do you feel about dedicated hate cards? If the majority of players in your group are running black decks and someone casts Celestial Purge, how would you react?
>>
last time i went to my edh group, one of the guys in my pod brought his girlfriend and gave her his high-powered animar deck to play. he scooped after missing a land drop on turn 5, pulled his chair right behind her, and told her what to play for the rest of the game.

they lost, but that's still kind of a shitty thing to do. guy is already kind of an asshole so that's not helping matters.

would it be a dick move to request not to be placed with that guy again?
>>
>>55837574
Is this a sort of store-level "event", or just your group having fun?

If it's an 'event', next time it happens say "Yeah, you can't give her advice. She's playing, not you." and if it persists, call the TO.

If it's just for fun, say "Fuck no. Go sit back in your god damned chair and let her play." If he doesn't, continue the game without them.
>>
So nim's deathmantle and peregrine drake, is that an infinite with a sac outlet? I only just purchased deathmantle and didnt realize it was another method at infinite mana beside deadeye nav
>>
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So i want to make werewolf tribal with ruric tharr as the commander because ulrich sucks but werewolves on their own don't seem like enough to win a game. What are some other wincons/powerful cards to use in gruul for a werewolf deck? Nothing too expensive please i am trying to keep it cheap
>>
>>55838012
It can be, assuming you have 4 mana to pay for the first Deathmantle trigger.
>>
>>55838031
peregrine drake etb untaps 5 mana, a.altar pay 3, sac drake and get 2 mana, and you have 4 mana avaiable to pull off the combo. nice unless i fucked up somewhere
>>
>>55838139
No yeah you're right. For some reason I was thinking the Mantle had to be equipped to the Drake in the first place, that was my fuckup.
>>
>>55838025
dragonlair spider's a good yet cheap card in gruul commander
>>
>>55838025
Make it group slug and win through combat.
>>
>>55838174
Ooh nice forgot about that one. I wanted to run triumph of the horde anyway so the spider is in for sure
>>
>That feel when no Sigarda Voltron GF who sits on your face while calling you a naughty Tribal player
>>
>>55838371
I'll be a boy n do that 2 you
>>
>>55838413

Gross.
>>
>>55837343
>Thread question
Not very. I run the usual suite of removal and Wraths for the colors I play, but I don't build stuff that will buttfuck one player.
>>
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>>55837343
Thread question: we usualy have 4 players in my group. Me and one other guy play a good bunch of hate, the third mostly does Johnny tryhard combo or copie stuff but runs not that much hate and allways neglects his mana base. The other one is the timmiest of all Timmys, there is only ramp and big boys in his decks. I'd say there can't be too much hate in a deck if you don't mind beeing the first target on the table.

Also what's your opinion on pic related for multi colored decks ?
>>
>>55837343
>How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?

When you start getting into a lot of dedicated color hate thats a bit much. When large chunks of your decks are dead cards because someone that you wanted to hatefuck isn't playing, thats probably when you have done too much. If you are talking about just running more graveyard or artifact hate because theres a lot of it in your meta, those cards are never really dead, since I haven't seen an EDH game without some of those.
>>
>>55837343
I have a deck that is specifically dedicated to hating one of my friend's Norin chaos deck, because fuck that noise.
>>
>>55838967
Unless you have something to do with the token, it is just a shit sorcery speed 3 mana kill spell.
>>
>>55839756
It also does some colourfixing. And it's *exile* removal, which can be important.
>>
Should I make Saskia Ball Lightning or Vanilla Creatures?
>>
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>>55838967
I prefer pic related.
>>
>>55837532
Patron of the moon, in which the main goal is to kill people with a draft chaff card from Amonkhet. Killing people with it is so satisfying.
>>
>>55840159
What's your wincon?

Mine is getting a bunch of sphinxes out and defending them.
>>
What is a good commander that is fun to play against? I have casual meta while I am more victory driven and I want my friends to have fun while still not goig group hig retarded.
>>
>>55840273
Doesn't matter for my group. My friends get pissy at me no matter what I play.

I counter spells? I become archenemy.
I cast a board wipe? I become archenemy.
I use spot removal? I become archenemy.
I exile graveyards? I become archenemy.
I attack for a lot of damage? I become archenemy.
>>
>>55840159
>kill people with a draft chaff card from Amonkhet
What the fuck card are you talking about
>>
>>55840127
Sweet. I didn't knew that card yet. It's perfect to fuck with Zur players
>>
What colors attract what people?

I think blue attracts turbo autists and "too be fair you have to have a pretty high IQ to understand x" types

tfw my favorite general is Teferi
>>
>thread question
Hate of all kind is important none more so than stuff like sadistic sacrament, bitter ordeal, jester's cap, etc. Building a deck to hate on one deck in particular is also fine especially if they stack which some do or go for the same shit every game.
>>
>>55840127
In multi-coloured decks, it can get a little black.

That said, as a mono-black player, I love it so much.
>>
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Say, /edhg/, in mono-blue is this card playable? You can basically turn dead cards into Harrow which is something blue doesn't normally have access to.
>>
If i use this to get a creature back from my graveyard and i sacrifice a creature with persist, will i still get back the creature in my graveyard?
>>
>>55840405
honestly the most fun deck i've ever played is kefnet

you just play kefnet turn 3 and then draw-go, countering everything that threatens you and dumping your remaining mana into drawing cards with kefnet.

you'd think the deck would just be a worse version of thrasios, but kefnet being indestructible is like... really good.

plus being monoblue lets you get more value out of high tide and caged sun.
>>
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0-2 Wort, the Raidmother
3-6 Chainer
7-8 Rakdos the Defiler
9 Phage
>>
>>55837548
Know your meta. If someone in my meta played Kor Castigator (where there are no eldrazi at all) for whatever reason, I'd be confused.
If the white player casts Mass Calcify (as he does), I wouldn't bat an eye.
Likewise, we all ran black and the white player decided to run Celestial Purge, my only question would be why he's not shooting for more card advantage with something like Cleanse or Fumigate
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>>55840465
yes
>>
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>>55840300

It is not that they gang up on me or complain, but I am way more into MTG than they are and put more thought into my decks, so if I'd go all out, I would make the games unfun for them.

>>55840405

I think that is an unfair and a real low-hanging joke. Of course blue attracts turbo-autists, because it is the most versatile color, which allows the largest possibility to brew. Blue can do anything other colors can, while 90% of red cards are burn spells or "goblins".
>>
>>55840543

>
>>
>>55840543
Chainer it is
>>55840618
Sorry I didn't do the greentext, must've triggered your retard button
>>
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Is this a Fuse card? Or is it one or the other?
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>>55840670
One or other, fuse cards will have the reminder text
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>>55840465
It also brings your commander from the command zone if you sacrificed them.
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Anything similar to this? I'd be using it to bounce and recast my own stuff for benefit
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>>55840775
If blue, Equilibrium and Cowardice
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>>55840775
>>55840811
and crystal shard
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>>55840830
>>55840811
No blue, unfortunately.
>>
>>55840888
what colors and what are you bouncing?
>>
>>55840888
theres some in white but it gets harder if blue isnt the color. stonecloaker and dust elemental for white
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>>55840888
if you're abusing ETB triggers that's one thing, but if you're after cast triggers it's a whole different thing.

what's your plan?
>>
>>55840965
>>55840981
Just repeatable ways to bounce/flicker Saskia in order to choose a new target. I should probably look at white
>>
>>55840554
Mass Calcify isn't really a dedicated hate card. It's like a colorless player using All is Dust or an Artifact player using Scourglass. It's just an asymmetrical card the player knows they'll be on the long end of and other players will usually be on the short end of.
>>
>>55840997
conjurers closet
>>
>>55840997
in that case, flicker stuff is way better than returning to your hand. you've only got three opponents so the max number of times you want to flicker her is like 2, so repeatable stuff isn't all that important.

really good options would be flickerwisp and restoration angel because they're creatures attached to a flicker effect, but you can also play cloudshift.

why do you need it to be repeatable?
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>>55840775
You can always come out of the closet.
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>>55841055
I like having things be repeatable as opposed to one-and-done

Effects on a stick, I guess
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>>55841082
but you only need it like two times. that's a lot of wasted mana, and it's not even really that good.
>>
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>>55841082
Hey kid, ya ever get your dick sucked by an eldrazi?
>>
>>55837532
I've built a deck for each monocolor, here's my favorites:
W: Sram, Senior Edificer
U: Teferi, Temporal Archmage
B: Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
R: Zada Hedron Grinder
G: Yeva, Nature's Herald
If you like Stax, Teferi and Lili are fun. If you like drawing cards Zada and Sram are great (or any of them really, fuck I love drawing cards). If you're a Timmy tired of getting board wiped then go Yeva.
>>
>>55841082
you really don't want erratic portal in your saskia deck. it's way too slow for an aggressive deck. flickerwisp and restoration angel should be enough flickering for the entire deck and they're both aggressive creatures.
>>
>>55840486
I look at him, and then I look at erebos or thrasios, and I just can't figure out why I'd want to.
>>
>>55841292
i like him more than erebos because i like monoblue more than monoblack

i like him more than thrasios because he's indestructible and wraths don't affect me at all
>>
So what's the win condition of Teferi? Looking at EDHrec and I don't see what his wincon is.
>>
>>55841350
which teferi?
>>
>>55837343
>not black
>not also the color of money

you had one fucking job
>>
>>55841082
toss in alot of o-ring bodies like fiend hunter or angel of condemnation. protects from wipes and neat tricks with flickers. for reusable stuff, you are barking up the wrong tree
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>>55841359
Temporal Archmage
>>
>>55841400
mana rocks and the chain veil, get infinite planeswalker activations for your turn and infinite mana, draw your deck, jtms ult or labman
>>
>>55841400
Teferi is all stax all the time. And the wincon is what >>55841433 said
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>>55841400
He often goes infinite with the Chain Veil and draws his whole deck.
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>>55841433
How do I infinite mana though?

>>55841458
teach me your secrets anon I don't know what stax is. if I post my deck list i cobbled together can you help me?
>>
>>55841471
Stax is misery with a side dish of pain. It's based around resource denial and making things more expensive to play
>>
>>55841400
something something deepglow skate
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>>55841471
you do teferi's -1 over and over again on the chain veil and some big mana rocks until he dies, then recast him with all the extra mana you made. chain veil is kinda fucky in how it works so you immediately get all the extra activations of teferi from before added to the "new" one. just keep looping this with teferi dying over and over and eventually you'll have a million mana and a million extra planeswalker activations for the turn. you then use teferi's +1 enough times to draw your deck and cast the wincon of your choice.
>>
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>>55837343

My decks are made around hate simply because my playgroup just runs the same decks again and again. I'm currently changing out my swamps to Snow-Covered Swamps just because the Ob-Nixilis landfall deck runs them + Extraplanar Lens.
>>
>>55841471
Say you have The Chain Veil, Gilded Lotus, and Teferi. Activate the chain veil, then -1, untapping the TCV, GL, and two lands. Activate the chain veil again, then -1, doing the same thing. Do this until Teferi runs out of Loyalty and dies.

Now, when you cast Teferi again, all those chain veil activations apply to the new instance of him. He can activate his abilities probably 5 or 6 times, depending on how much loyalty you had to work with earlier. Use his untap ability enough to generate the mana you'll need to cast him next time, then keep doing Chain Veil activations or drawing cards. The next time you cast Teferi, he should be able to activate his abilities like 12 times. It just keeps on going like that.
>>
>>55841471
>>55841564
this guy explained it better than i did, listen to him
>>
>>55840455
Anyone??
>>
>>55841637
i'd rather just run walking atlas and have a good amount of draw unless i was going for some kind of big reanimator thing
>>
Kefnet or Kami for mono blue card draw action
>>
>>55841719
kefnet: indestructible, cheap, good blocker at all stages of the game, can draw multiple cards per turn when you get enough rocks out

kami: cheaper by 1, but helps everyone, only gets you 1 card per turn but does it free

kefnet is probably better in this comparison unless you're actively trying to build group hug
>>
>>55841773
>>55841337
>>55840486
You guys are actually making kefnet sound really awesome.
>>
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Fun old cards you've never seen anyone else play.
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>>55841876
cause you lose out on the good half of your reanimation targets.
>>
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>>55841876
>>
>>55841940
Not like you have a ton of reanimation effects in mono-white or most nonblack white color pairs.
>>
>>55841940
If you have two different creature combos in your graveyard, you can split both of them up and win either way.
>>
>>55841940
You make the piles, so you'll always end up with something desirable.
>>
>>55840455
It ain't bad.
>>
why is heroic intervention so expensive? rotation and fumigate in standard?
>>
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I'm trying to help my friend make his budget enchantress deck playable. He're the current list I've come up with for him - any obvious suggestions ($5 or under) or cuts to be made before I send him the list?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-karametra-enchantress-2/
>>
I want to build a creature centric deck but I'm having a hard time choosing between Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
>>
>>55842180
You got me excited. I have a foil. 5 bucks isn't expensive.
>>
1-3 Kefnet
4-6 Zada
7-9 Kruphix
0 idk man, maybe a +1/+1 counter commmander?
>>
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Any other creatures to keep attacks at bay? This seems good already.
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>>55842447
Truly you have been blessed by best god! I hope you like drawing tons of cards and slamming fatties.
>>
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>>55842476
wedge and shard gods when
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>>55842466
Having a Stuffy, Reck, Spitemare, and Furnace in play and slapping down a Blasphemous Act might be legally defined as a sexual experience. 156 damage coming someone's way
>>
will ABUR duals ever be reprinted?
I want to use a tryhard manabase without spending like a tryhard or using a piece of printed out paper in a sleeve like a dork
>>
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>>55842466
>Letting your opponents attack at all
Poor form desu
>>
>>55842526
And then you flash in Dictate
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>>55842565
>will ABUR duals ever be reprinted?
They are on the reserve list, which is a list wizards has sworn they they will never reprint cards from.

But you can believe what you want
>>
>>55842613
I had not heard of that list before.
and boy is it long
>>
>>55842643
>first time hearing about the reserved list
Buckle up, it only gets worse from here.
>>
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>>55842201
Shit, forgot to uncheck private. Deck should be visible now. My bad.
>>
So, I decided it was time to remedy never having built a mono green EDH deck, so I decided to put together Sasaya.

Anyone got some good Sasaya tech? I think I got most of the best cards covered, but I'd love to see some stuff that isn't necessarily on EDHrec
>>
>>55838967
Good with Mazirek
>>
>>55837343
Everydeck I build I want it to be able to address all threats. This started with my first from scratch deck which is Queen Marchesa. Mardu is spoiled for removal. Nothing is safe.

Ever since then I'm trying to do better. Need to get my Sultai and Grixis decks in shape but they are such whacked out messes with bad decklists I may just gut them.
>>
>>55843021
Forests.

I think she's cool, and was considering her.

I'm just worried that she goes all-in on her schtick too hard, and I might be better off with selvala or something.
>>
>>55843333
trying to run a fairly low forest count, mostly trying to instead run stuff that either tutors for forests to my hand, or draws and replaces itself, so that I either draw more draw, a forest or a forest tutor. It keeps the deck flowing much better than flipping Sasaya, having 200 mana and nothing but 8 forests in your hand.
>>
>>55842201
>>55842830
Is Karametra set in stone? While thematic, it doesn't do much with such a low creature count. Remember it's a cast trigger, not etb. If you can negotiate on the commander, consider Selvala or Dragonlord Dromoka if you can splurge. Krond if you want to be flavorful and on-budget, though a bit crappy.
I don't see an Argothian Enchantress even though they're just under 5 bucks and well worth it.
I notice you've committed to the Wild Growth suite of enchantments. Consider slotting Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr, and particularly Krosan Restorer to really capitalize on the ramp.
Also consider a Cathar's Crusade and Sacred Mesa.
>>
>all my commanders are gods
>rhonas, iroas, kruphix, erebos

I need to pick something else
>>
>>55843458
Karona
>>
>>55842510
There are inklings of some great bat god on Ixalan. It might just end up being a demon though.
>>
>>55843673
where?
>>
What's the wincon in a Sisay deck?
>>
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>>55843458

Do it!
>>
>>55843742
Tutor out planeswalkers
>>
>tfw your first commander is super op
>every other deck you build feels lackluster
>>
>>55838025
Ruric Thar is fucking busted
>>
>>55843458
You need Scarab and Locust God still
>>
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I think I have a deckbuilding problem. Just threw together lists for Kynaios, Elesh, and Damia. 7 decks already seemed like a lot
>>
>>55842569
I like to go for Stormtide Leviathan + Archetype of Imagination
>>
>>55842466
Windborn Muse?
>>
0- Sasaya
1- Vial Smasher
2- Experiment Kraj
3- Kefnet
4- Ludevic + Kraum
5- W Bruna
6- Hapatra
7- Ishai
8- 8 1/2 Tails
9- Sram
>>
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>>55843683
If I remember, it was hinted at in one of the Uncharted Realms stories, but this might be the only appearance of it on a card. There's a Bat Imp creature that could be related to it as well.
>>
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>>55844838
And here it's actually described on the back.
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>>55842466
en-kor creatures can dump their damage onto another creature you control (e.g. Stuffy). don't forget Guilty Conscience and indestructibles (Boros Charm works wonders).
>>
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>>55843458
this
>>55844457
>>
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Best duo to match with vial smasher? I want to keep the Grixis colors
>>
>>55845435
Kraum is a decent beater who draws you cards fairly frequently. Silas being the same CMC as Vial smasher is a detriment and he's very build-around. Ludevic is just trash.
>>
>>55844372
How so?
>>
>>55840775
Cloudstone Curio
>>
>>55845435
Kraum lets you do zombie storm, which is fun.
>>
I want to sacrifice, I want to reanimate, and I want to win through beatdown and control.

What's my commander?
>>
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>Wizards most recent attempt at Commander is in shambles
>they've left you in charge as a hail mary/scapegoat and want you to "fix" what they've already started on instead of working from scrap since they already got the art
>2018 is focused around the Tyrant/Dominance mechanic, a keyword for when you have more of any kid of permanent or life than any other player
>There's an artifact heavy esper deck with a sacrifice theme and a soldier token subtheme
>a rakdos deck with a hellbent commander and a mass discard and groupslug theme
>an abzan deck with taxes and land themes
>a mono green centaur/druid deck
>and a gruul/naya deck in dire straights with a token theme
What's the first thing you do?
>>
>>55845889
Vish Kal is pricy mana-wise but he's a self serving instant speed sac outlet that can either swing tall or snipe opponent's creatures
>>
>>55845889
Marchesa, the Black Rose fits what you want to the letter.
>>
>>55845889
any BUG commander should do the trick
UB for the control, GB for the reanimate, and GU for the beatdown
>>
>>55845966
Print Greater Good on a body, but activatable from the command zone.

Watch format combust into flames.
>>
>>55845889
?
>>
>>55846031
>Sidisi, Tasigur, Mimeoplasm already taken in my group
O-okay
>>
>>55845966
Commander products are going to be only four decks from now on. Apparently market research showed most people consider four players to be ideal.
>>
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>>55837343
>Someone saved my OC
>>
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>>55846248
I save all the OC, no matter how bland.
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>>55841876
>>
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>>55846297
Did you catch the bad translation threads?
>>
>>55846327
I think they're great and all but saving them is a no-go, besides a handful for the memories.
Reposting them would make them go stale real quick, and posting them outside of those threads will require an explanation.
>>
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>>55846390
I guess.
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>>55846390
Nah
>>
>>55846408
See, even the translator knows Planeswalkers are just merchandising.
>>
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>>55846390
>>
Reminder that if you're not playing card advantage in EDH you're literally playing at a huge disadvantage.
>>
>>55846327
Tried to make my own. Not sure what languages they used to get their results. I just used a bunch of random ones.
>>
>>55846720
Talk about /pol/ approved translation.
>>
>game knights is sponsored by WotC

welp i guess there is no hope for redemption for this show
>>
>>55837343
>How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
grave hate and artifact hate is a must in my group usually 4-5 slots for both combined is good enough sense im probably going to be tutoring for them
>>
>>55846878
You didn't realize that after the horror that was the episode with the screeching cunts from MTA?
>>
>>55837343
>How important is hate in your group? How much slots dedicated to hate, is too much?
There is no such thing as too much hate, this summer there was a board game convention in my city and people came from around the country to play MtG, yet many of them refused to play EDH with us because our meta was "too oppressive".
>>
>>55846942
To this day people at my LGS still don't understand why I run Relic of Progenitus, no matter how many times I tell them that at worst it's 2 mana draw a card, and at best it's 2 mana eliminate a player.
>>
>>55846909
i figured they were but now its official and beyond saving
>>
so i have all the c17 decks sealed and ive decided that they are not worth keeping around. is now a good time to sell sealed c17 stuff?
>>
>got paid today
>bought 4 vedalkin orrarys
this is probably a good way to spend my money
>>
>>55845889
meren or marchesa
>>
>>55847087
Wishing I picked up more when they were still $5
>>
>>55845966
Damn the reserve list and print cards anyways except dual lands
>>
What are the best ways to tap down your own Howling Mine in an artifact-heavy deck? Clock Of Omens and Inspiring Statuary? Anything else?
>>
>>55845966
Probably just use it as an excuse to reprint stuff. All the ideas sound generic as fuck.
>>
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>>55847189
Mm?
>>
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sen-triplets-from-breya-precon/

Where the fuck do I take this deck? Can I get some feedback?
>>
>>55847087
I have two of them and don't use either. I only use one Leyline in my Memnarch, which is strictly better anyway, save for it being blue.
Only use it has is to being able to spend your mana you saved for counterspells, I just don't find it useful
>>
>>55847221
Hmm, sorry, it does look a little useless unless I can reliably pump out a million artifact tokens. I'll put it on the list but I don't think it'll stick.

Fwiw I'm drafting a Jori En deck with lots of instants and mana rocks
>>
>>55847206
Everything is generic at this point, it only matters if it's fun.
>>
>>55847345
>it only matters if it's fun

I love how people say this as if this isn't completely subjective. You can't make a sealed product that everyone will think is fun. Better off filling it full of value and needed reprints along with a decent commander then letting players build their own decks they think are fun.
>>
>>55847375
I disagree. You can try to make a product that "enough" people will find fun. Do not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'. It's much more important, in my opinion, to put out decks that serve as good skeletons for new players to build around, than to cram them full of "value", because then they just get snapped up by people wanting to gut them and sell the singles.
>>
>>55847458
>because then they just get snapped up by people wanting to gut them and sell the singles.
Print more then. Not a hard concept.
>>
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>>55847189
clock of omens

>>55847326
>not tapping one artifact infinite amount of times
>not making a bajillion myrs

there are like three other cards that work like myr retriever.
>>
>>55847474
And then the people just buy those, until the singles inside are not worth buying and reselling. It could be weeks or months before it hits that point, and the people who actually want to PLAY with the decks are able to get ahold of them.

If you want a 2 dollar Mana Crypt, just write "MANA CRYPT" on a bulk rare, you cheap fuck.
>>
>>55847326
Options are limited. It is just the first thing I thought of.

And awesome. She's the best.
>>
>>55847375
I love how you take a subjective situation and apply a subjective counterpoint.
Decks usually come in a series of themes, which consumers can easily grasp the general picture of and choose between.

Comparing the decks poised and previous commander products, I think those are right in line. Half the Commander products pushed are pretty god awful and only good for scalping, but the other half are incredibly fun when you pit them against other sealed products and only take a handful of swaps before you can comfortably sit down at a normal EDH table.
>>
You think any of the big counterspells and instant effects like Aethersnatch, Gather Specimins, Counterlash, etc. are worth running? Have they worked for anyone?
>>
>>55840455
Pretty good card. He's underrated and very playable as long as you're not "cEDH".
>>
>>55847568
Gather Specimens is great if effects like Genesis Wave or 'huge ass White Sun's Zenith' are common enough, because you can slam it out in response to those spells and just get huge value, but if you can only ever 'reliably' steal like, one big creature with it, it's probably not worth the cost.

Counterlash is iffy, because ideally you want to have something that costs at least 6 to get out of it. Again, meta-dependent.

I like putting in Aethersnatch just for the occasional times it's a blowout.
>>
>>55844838
I'm looking forward to this creature in the next set.
>>
>>55847513
>people buy up the sealed product for singles implying there wont be enough sealed product for playing
>printing more single handedly solves this issue and brings the price of singles down
>literally a win win and what every single other TCG does to great success
>somehow think this is a subjective solution when its been proven successful multiple times in the past

You are an idiot.
>>
>>55846320
I use Mogg Infestation.
>>
>>55847638
>>printing more single handedly solves this issue and brings the price of singles down

You say that like Wizards has the power to just print up, package, and ship-to-store new Commander decks at the drop of a hat. There's a reason they usually only do one or two print runs for supplemental sets.
>>
>>55847458
Fun doesn't sell. Because there isn't a single archetype in the game that most players find fun. People don't think that having a good skeleton is fun, even if someone have fun with a shit deck, he won't have as much fun the moment someone mentions that he basically lost money buying a shit precon with almost no value.

And you talk as if filling a precon with value makes it shitfest with no winning condition. Just adding in moxes already gives a shitton of value to the decks without changing how the deck works. And if you are talking about how the precons would fly off the shelves, it is a good problem for wotc, since they just need to print it until they realize that moxes are now worth less than a commander precon msrp.
>>
I need to take a big steamy shit all over Bruna.

What cards help me achieve this?
>>
>>55847638
I'm not exactly following.
What are you mad about?
>>
>>55847684
>fun doesn't sell
Then why are the Tribal commanders so popular?
>>
>>55847684
>NOBODY CAN HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ME
>FUN IS SUBJECTIVE SO IT SHOULD NEVER BE A FACTOR
>I WANT CHEAP CARDS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>55847694
Killing her before combat. Back to Nature. Rest In Peace.
>>
>>55847651
>There's a reason they usually only do one or two print runs for supplemental sets
It is because supplemental sets barely sell after people who wanted their singles already got that. It is not because it's hard to print and ship more of the same product.
>>
>>55847706
Also Wing Shards.
>>
>>55847710
It's not that it's "hard", it's that it's time consuming and costly. To WotC, it's not worth the time and effort to print up multiple 'smaller' print runs until the shit starts stagnating on shelves. They'd rather do one print run, send the shit out to distributors, and be done with it.

They've also repeatedly said that they do not want to use things like Commander and Planechase and other sealed deck products like that to reprint 'chase' cards, specifically because they want those products to end up in the hands of people who will actually play them, rather than people buying the 30 dollar box to gut for the 60 dollars in singles inside it. So, you can "want" them to put 200 dollars worth of staples into a 35 dollar deck until you're blue in the face, and say that it's the "smartest" option, but they have been very clear that they don't want to do that.
>>
>>55846320
Target yourself with this while playing Purphoros. Had it done once on me and thought it was clever
>>
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I NEED PICTURES

PICTURES OF REPEATABLE GRAVEYARD RECURSION
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>>55841471
>>55841458

It's not going to be as good as Stax but if you like the people you play with and want to build teferi you can always use his -1 to ramp out fatties too.
>>
In general, should I go with Chord of Calling or Tooth and Nail?
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>>55847776
No
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>>55847697
In the context, fun is meaning that the deck will be fun for a small portion of the players, because it would be focused towards them, and somehow they would buy it even if it was shit and basically money lost. But it doesn't happen like that, even wotc knows that if they don't put in value inside precons, they don't sell. This is one of the biggest reasons why they are selling planeswalker decks with exclusive cards that can only be obtained in the precon instead of the usual intro packs.
>>
>>55847811
Depends on what you're wanting.

Chord is better for if you can reasonably have dudes to help shrink the cost via Convoke, and/or if what you want is something to tutor silver bullets or specific cards (IE, if you want Chord to be a 'second' copy of a very specific card)

Tooth and Nail is for ending the game. Full stop. Chord can sometimes find the one combo piece you're missing, but usually you're gonna use it to find a specific creature-based answer to something. Tooth and Nail is what you use to find 2 creatures like Kiki and Conscripts to end the game.
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>>55847829
>In the context, fun is meaning that the deck will be fun for a small portion of the players, because it would be focused towards them, and somehow they would buy it even if it was shit and basically money lost.

Please tell me where I argued for the decks to be shitty.

I said that the *primary* focus of these products should be making something that casual players want to buy, play with, and modify. I never said it can't have good cards, I never said it has to be 'shit' or 'value lost', and I never implied people would still buy it even if that was so. I said that it's more important for the deck to be cohesive and enjoyable and a good "jumping off" point for a wide swath of players than for it to be crammed full of 30 dollar cards.
>>
>>55847734
>it's time consuming
Wotc and hasbro aren't doing charity. They would be literally printing money.

>they said they do not want to do X
Don't give me this bullshit, the whole point was that you would be in charge to fix it. Otherwise the question would be "You are in charge of this shitshow, how fucked are you?"
>>
>>55847829
>This is one of the biggest reasons why they are selling planeswalker decks with exclusive cards that can only be obtained in the precon instead of the usual intro packs.

Wrongo. Every one of those "exclusive" cards is fucking terrible. On purpose. They underpower those cards by design because they don't want anyone to HAVE to go buy those precons to get specific singles for competitive play. Those precons are intended for new and casual players, and the 'exclusive' cards are shitty, by design, so that they don't have to worry about people snapping them off the shelves because they need 4x Nissa's Encouragement for Standard.
>>
>>55847867
I'm still lost.
What are you argueing for, no one said they wanted a shit load of staples thrown into the deck.
I can't even tell *who* is saying what because everyone's basically saying the same thing.
>>
>>55847878
>Wotc and hasbro aren't doing charity. They would be literally printing money.
First, never said they are a charity.

Second, disagree that this is a good venture. It might make a surge of sales at first, but it'd have diminishing returns, and it would piss off players.
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>>55847890
>no one said they wanted a shit load of staples thrown into the deck

>>55847375
>You can't make a sealed product that everyone will think is fun. Better off filling it full of value and needed reprints
>>
>>55847867
It would actually be harder to make deck filled with value a bad skeleton, than making a good skeleton deck without being filled with value.

Staples are expensive, and by default filled with value. Unless you are talking about filling a deck with staples, we are basically saying the same thing, and I have no idea what you are trying to argue here.
>>
>>55847912
What I'm arguing for is that I feel the "best" strategy for Commander precons is to be primarily concerned with them being fun to play, having interesting new cards, and being a good springboard to build from while having a solid 'base'. I think casual players have the most fun when they can buy a precon, play it for a weekend, then start slotting in cards from their collection and powering that precon up over time.

I disagree with the idea that "because fun is subjective, and you can't make a deck that literally every single person who plays EDH will like, fun shouldn't ever factor into your decisions, and the best option is to just print decks that are basically nothing but reprints of expensive, valuable staples for people to gut".
>>
>>55847912
What if
Instead of making precons
They just push out Commander sets with boosters?
>>
>>55847885
>wrong
>they are shit
Quote me exactly where i said that they were strong. I said that they would sell, and they do. Look at Nicol Bolas from the precon, it is worth $5, much more than whatever bulk rare they used in the past. Only maybe Wolfir Silverheart and Blade Splicer managed to get values like that.

The whole point of the planeswalker decks would be to give more value to the precons, without making them hard to find for new players.
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>>55848004
>Look at Nicol Bolas from the precon, it is worth $5, much more than whatever bulk rare they used in the past

Do you think that might have something to do with the fact that it's Nicol Bolas, rather than the fact that people are falling over themselves to buy a super expensive planeswalker that sees play in zero formats? I'll grant you that Bolas is the strongest one of the PW deck planeswalkers we've seen, but he's still not very good, and they flat out said that they design the cards in the PW decks to not be 'viable' for competitive play in other formats specifically because they can only be obtained in the precon, and they want those precons available for new players to buy and play whole, rather than people buying them for singles.

>The whole point of the planeswalker decks would be to give more value to the precons, without making them hard to find for new players.
Objectively fucking false.
>>
>>55847900
>piss off players
Yeah, making the competitive scenario more affordable really fucking pisses off people.

Remember that Wotc and Hasbro gains no direct benefits when an old card jumps to $100. The only ones gaining anything from it are the investors, that makes the game harder to enter for new players, since they basically turns the game into a stock market. Wotc and Hasbro gains the most when people buy their sealed products from the stores.

Also, if the investors wants to something to get money from, stuff like expeditions and masterpieces were the right call. There are a lot of people willing to pay more to bling out their deck, and those prints barely have any impact on the non-bling version.
>>
>>55848077
When I have to wait 3 months to buy a precon because people are snatching them up to gut for singles to sell, I don't really care that Modern is getting cheaper, because I don't fucking play Modern. I play Commander, and I have to get lucky or wait 3 months to buy a fucking precon in this scenario.
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>>55848077
I haven't seen a single precon in any store so your opinion is invalid.
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>>55847776
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>>55848073
It is true. The whole intro pack changes accelerated with the Wolfir Silverheart fiasco. Where they decided to add one extra booster packs in the precons so that would be less likely to happen. And after that, they would try to make it so it doesn't happen again.

Also, Nissa is $4. The card isn't an exception because it is Nicol Bolas. All the other shit planeswalkers from the planeswalker decks have been like this. For some good time right after they are out, they have a decent value.
>>
Anyone have any banned cards specifically at your kitchen table, and if so which card(s)?
>>
>>55848161
>It is true

Each Planeswalker Deck will have a brand-new planeswalker card, obviously of the Planeswalker the deck is themed around. These cards are being designed to be fun and flavorful but not pushed for tournament play. The idea is we want new players to be excited by them and for them to have a big impact on the game, but we don't want established players to feel obligated to buy the Planeswalker Decks. As a default, the planeswalkers will be expensive to cast and splashy.
>>
>>55848093
They are being snatched up mostly because people know that wizards makes a limited print on them. So if they monopolize on the good cards in it, they can make a good profit out of it, since shit like Teferi's Protection are almost a limited reserved print.

If they knew that the product would be printed as long as there are buyers for it, they wouldn't be so eager to clean the shelves, it might be a race in the beginning, but it would make the product better and more accessible in the long run.
>>
>>55848179
That's a direct quote from the article introducing the decks.

Tell me what about that wording implies that these are intended to be "valuable" cards that'll see play anywhere but the kitchen table?
>>
>>55848179
Are you a broken record? You keep insisting on a point that I never presented. The sets have value, not power. Although they may have a correlation, they are directly linked to one another.
>>
>>55848233
>The sets have value, not power
Fucking what
>>
>autists who've never taken a business class in their life REEEEEEEEEEEing about how PreCons should have valuable reprints the thread

I haven't seen a single precon across two towns and a city. If they put shit in it like Tarmogoyf I'd especially never see them. Wizards can't "print these into oblivion" like autists in these threads like to say they have limited resources and they're not going to devote a shit ton of them to commander precons.
>>
>>55847994
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/164331905138/would-having-the-yearly-commander-product-be

If you want them to try it, show your support.
>>
>>55848246
Look at the fucking prices on Nicol Bolas and Nissa from the planeswalker decks yourself. They may be shit as fuck, but they are worth some dollars. They are worth more than a lot of regularly printed planeswalkers better than them.
>>
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I need a good Penguin themed commander deck
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>>55848167
Yeah I allow griselbrand because the only edh deck using it says spending 21 life to get 21 cards that you might dump most of it is dumb. In a kaalia deck no less.
>>
>>55848301
>$5

WEW SON WE GOIN' TO VALUE TOWN! WE'S GONNA EAT MC'DONALDS TENDIES TONIGHT!
>>
>>55840127
Definitely one of the most metal cards from the past 4 years
>>
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I made that Ball Lightning tribal deck as promised

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/saskias-big-balls/

I'm ready to be eviscerated, lemme know what I should swap/cut/add
>>
>>55846226
4 is the ideal number for a pod. Its a shame that there is about 40 less reprints, but if the 56 new cards we get are on the same caliber as the 2017 edition, then I'm OK with it.
>>
>>55848167
My playgroup allowed one person to play Panoptic Mirror, because they were only playing Copy effects and had no extra turn cards for it.
>>
>>55846720
I feel like I'm doing something wrong here.
>>
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>decks all in shambles as part of massive tear-down/rebuild
>friends want to play yesterday
>Throw together some half-assed Purphoros deck
>slaps the shit out of the table
I forgot how good Purph is, fuck.
>>
>>55848341
Partner Ishai with whomever you feel best represents your waifu
>>
>>55848519
I know that feel
>took apart kozilek artifacts
>throw together breya in one night with leftover cards from binder
>turn 7 table lockdown with mycosynth lattice, darksteel forge, clock of omens and Nev's disk
Thanks kuldotha forgemaster and mirage mirror you fucking broke ass shits
>>
>>55848301
Man, you're right, spending 15 dollars on a precon to get a 5 dollar unplayably shit foil and 2 dollars worth of bulk commons is V A L U E
>>
>>55848167
We ban Omen Machine simply because it slams the game to a grinding halt.
>>
>autismo builds deck entirely about ramping up and playing new Emrakul several turns early
>gets ass-blasted when I fauna shaman up Kiki-Jiki and win

Play stupid games win stupid prizes
>>
>>55848637
>playing overcosted, shitty mindslaver in a multiplayer, board wipe centric format
>some faggot just tutors up kiki jiki combos all night
really makes your brain work
>>
>>55848720
>Being Mindslaved to death is OK
>Kiki combo isn't

What kind of game are you playing where being Mindslavered doesnt kill you or knock you out of the game? Spellskite, Necropotence, Unspeakable symbol, Lim duls vault, etc. Will all kill a guy that gets mindslavered.

I think the joke is that if you make a deck with only ramp and emrakul though, you miss out on playing normal disruption that stops other people from going off earlier than you.
>>
>>55843458
You need three colors in your life. Tell me your favorite trio.
>>
>>55848803
I believe he's saying that tutoring up Kiki combos is a disproportionate response to Emrakul, because unlike regular Mindslaver it's a lot fucking harder to use Emrakul to permanently mindslaver lock someone.
>>
>>55848803
Because it's one autismo being locked down in case of a mindslaver lock and there are possibly 2 other people at the table to push your shit in. Plus not everyone is running U/B/X so there's always an easy out to instantly murdering a player. In the case of emrakul, the body is almost a non issue and you can't recur her.
>>
>>55844572
Keep four. Dismantle the rest.
>>
>>55844706
I guess Hapatra isn't the worst of these option.
>>
>>55846129
Jund 'em out then.
>>
>>55848862
There's more than one way to Mindslaver lock an entire table
>>
>>55848913
Tell me how you can do this with emrakul, the promised end. inb4 apply infinite mana
>>
>>55848923
Oh, fuck that. I just meant for actual mindslaver.
>>
>>55847568
>>55847604
Don't forget Desertion and Spelljack!
>>
>>55848862
>Plus not everyone is running U/B/X so there's always an easy out to instantly murdering a player.

Those were just examples. You can play stuff like phyrexian processor in any colors. And even if mindslaver doesn't kill you, it should royally fuck you up by destroying your board and hand, and in the case of a combo deck getting rid of your combo pieces.

You would have to be in a craw wurm meta (which the guy clearly isn't) to have no chance of instantly killing a player or essentially knocking them out of the game.
>>
>>55847694
Kalemne's Captain and/or Merciless Eviction
>>
>>55844848
I fucking love this art.
>>
>>55848923
Not him, but you can do it with seedborn muse, a flash outlet, and something like crystal shard. You will control everyone elses turn for the rest of the game.
>>
>>55848395
Arc Runner
Butcher of Malakir
Hellspark Elemental
Impetuous Devils
Dictate of Erebos
Dictate of the Twin Gods
Furnace of Rath
Grave Pact
True Conviction
Whip of Erebos
>>
>>55844457
>>55845214
>scarab is $40
>play group already has a Locus player

>>55848848
sultai, esper, abzan
>>
>>55849127
My recommendations?

Mimeoplasm
Sydri
Karador
>>
>>55848395
Claim // Fame?
>>
>>55849127
Scorpion, then.
>>
>>55848372
>>55848594
This is exactly what I was talking about. They don't want another Wolfir Silverheart. But at $15, including 2 boosters and a $5 card, it is decently cheap, and nets some decent value for beginners.
>>
>>55849422

I honestly just miss the theme decks. I thought they were better at showing mechanics and they seemed more interesting deck building wise too. The forced Planeswalker stuff is going to get old fast.
>>
>>55849422
I know that when I have 15 dollars, I consider buying 59 uselessly terrible singles, 2 booster packs at MSRP and then some, and a terrible, unplayable foil for 5 dollars to be great value!
>>
>>55849458
15 dollars, sorry.
>>
>>55849455
You mistake what the function of the decks are. These are meant for new players, and new players love the idea of getting a planeswalker.
>>
>>55849104
I like most of these, I just dunno where I'd put them
>>
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>>55849465
>>55849458
yeah but at least they are getting something they'll think is cool and if you take cost of the packs at msrp out it's only 7 bucks
>>55849496
this, it's also a good way to introduce them to how planeswalkers work, since before they were off limits to regular ol' precons
>>
>>55848970
Please tell me all the decks running phyrexian processor along with their 3 turn combo decks.
Best case scenario for a single mindslaver is attacking unfavorably into the creature deck and mindtwisting them for like a few random removal spells. The shit will not knock anyone out of the game unless they're running like one solitary combo as a wincon and in that case just run fucking disallow or something. Plus we weren't even talking about mindslaver specifically, just the effect off emrakul.

>>55849061
That's definitely true, I might have to stick emrakul into my artifact deck now so I can slap people around with her with unwinding clock out.
>>
>>55849496
100% this.

The 'function' of the deck is something that a new player can buy and begin playing with immediately, as well as having a Planeswalker as the central focus because apparently they decided that's the best option for casuals.

In no universe is it intended to be "value" the way you're framing it. That function is filled by the Deckbuilder's Toolkit.
>>
>>55849516
So they're "only" paying 7 dollars for a shitty card that's 'worth' 5 dollars.

Such. Value.
>>
>>55849458
And you prefer the old ones? That had 60 terrible cards with no value whatsoever and 2 boosters at msrp? I'm not saying that planeswalker decks are perfect, but it is a damn of a boost from the old intro packs.
>>
>>55849501
I'm not huge on Combat Celebrant or Mycoid Shepherd
>>
>>55849528
Beginners were already buying the intro packs, at least they are getting 5 out of "7" dollars spent, instead of $1 if they were really fucking lucky.
>>
>>55849548
I have Celebrant as a way to get more oomph out of all those cheap creatures, and Shepherd is there as a sort of pillowfort-y strategy to keep me alive when my board gets light. Forced sac is probably better though. Maybe I'll drop Seize the Day too
>>
>>55849530
Actually, I personally preferred the original theme decks that were 10 dollars, had zero boosters, and while they had some chaff (mostly so players could easily cut it as they powered the deck up), they had unified 'themes' to be built from and served their role perfectly: Giving casual players an easy way to jump right in by having a fully built, playable (not necessarily strong, but playable and theme-focused) deck for 10 bucks.

I feel the later decks and the Planeswalker decks aren't as good at that, since the 'focus' is less on neat themes of the set and more on the face characters, but the starter decks have never been about giving someone 30 dollars of singles for 10 bucks. They've always been "Here is a deck that you can begin playing with immediately, go have fun". That's what they've always done, that's what they still do.

You're getting mad at a toaster for not washing your clothes.
>>
>>55849581
>Keep me alive
"Dying slower" is not a good strategy. If you need tools to 'stay alive' when your board is light, pack wraths.
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>>55849496

Sure, but Planeswalker design space is already pretty narrow (although I guess if you make them shitty enough it doesn't matter) so it feels unwise to have to make two per set forever. I also wish that they would use not the gatewatch or enemy of the week for once too. It boggles my mind that there wasn't a Saheeli deck in Kaladesh.

Speaking of that, did she even do anything? at all?

I just remember being excited about intro packs sometimes. It was a fun start to building some of the decks I enjoyed the most (like U/R Burning vengeance).
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>>55849603
It does help that they don't put a lot of effort into making them interesting or unique. It's not like they're stealing design space- the Gatewatch ones were just "DURR HURR BURN" or "DURR HURR ZAMBOZLES"
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How faggy am i for playing this?
Any ideas for maximize hugs?

Also rate my crap
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gay-brotendo/
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>>55849603
>>55849620
(but I 100% agree that I preferred intro packs. Time Spiral intro packs having things like Thallid decks were super great, I preferred that)
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>>55849582
Value is something inherent to almost anything. I would be fucking mad if I paid $30 for a $10 toaster.
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>>55849620
>>55849629

I suppose I wouldn't mind if the decks themselves were more interesting. They could do some neat things, especially in a tribal set like Ixalan. Something like the original Nissa, but for not elves seems like it'd work well here. but there won't be.
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>>55849595
Well that certainly makes more sense. Time for more edits.
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>>55848720
It was 1v1 dipshit
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>>55849603
I just wish the planeswalkers in the planeswalkers decks were more supportive of a specific strategy. This way, even a newbie could understand what is the point of the deck just by reading the abilities of the planeswalker, instead of "Oh, these cards do a bunch of things."
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How do I hose atraxa super friends in mardu?
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>>55849691
I'm the op faggot and it was multiplayer
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>>55849719
No I'm the OP who posted about Emrakul

>>55848637
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>>55849528
It's better than getting a shitty intro pack rare, and as an added side bonus, shitty intro pack rares also clogged up the rares of the set and we're better off being rid of them entirely.
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>>55849724
No, that's me. It was 1 v 1, I just forgot to mention it.
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>>55849623
Anvil of Bogardan + Weird Harvest + Tempting Wurm
Charmed Griffin
Hired Giant
Hunted Dragon
Hunted Lammasu
Hunted Phantasm
Hunted Troll
Hunted Wumpus
Indentured Djinn
New Frontiers
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>>55849724
Why would you people come on here and just tell lies, it's clear that you're just bullshitting
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>>55849716
Merciless Eviction
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>>55849716
Star of Extinction, In Garruk's Wake, Fated Retribution, Merciless Eviction.
Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore for single targets.
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>>55849756
I forgot that was a card.

>>55849780
I have those single targets I can put those in the deck.
Have you played with star of extinction?
I haven't played with any Ixalan cards yet. How has it performed for you?
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>>55849743
I'm also playing with pic related but he dies literally after all people read his 3 ability. Played a lot but never ulti.
Is he any good? Sounds fokin' hilarious
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>>55849603
>Speaking of that, did she even do anything? at all?

She apparently made Hope of Ghirapur and used it to blow up Tezzeret's planar portal. She also told the Gatewatch to eat a dick, so no Oath of Saheeli.
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>>55849849
I like star of extinction, but you have to be aware of land removal like ghost quarter, because if Star of Extinction loses target of the land, it fizzles.
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>>55849914
That is tricky. I will have to remember that. I picked up planar cleansing and hour of revelation as all purpose boardwipes but I am having trouble getting enough mana in mardu to cast them.
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>>55849641
You're misconstruing my analogy.

I'm saying you're upset that the decks aren't "providing" something they were never intended to provide.
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>>55849710
They did that with Huatli, at least, but her problem is that she literally does nothing if you don't already have dinosaurs on the board.
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>>55850259
Buyer's remorse is a thing, and intro packs and planeswalker decks aren't supposed to make the player feel this way.
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>>55850300
I wish more Planeswalkers were designed like Huatli, rather than just being general goodstuff.
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>>55850259
>>55850323
I also agree. I would feel bad if I knew that I could buy the exact same game for 1/10th of the price, or even have it given to me from a friend because of how cheap it is.
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>>55850327
>still waiting for Huatli to go down so I can get a foil for Licia
Is she actually seeing play?
I don't want to dish out a dime more than $20 for it.
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>>55846095
I second this.
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>>55850489
She's not actually good, I just like the ability design. Don't know if she's seeing play, not as far as I know.
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I love how lost you guys got in that argument. It didn't lead anywhere. Both of y'all agree on the purpose of these intro decks.
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>>55850517
>She's not actually good
I wouldn't say she's bad, either.
She's flexible as fuck and can provides some sicknasty lifegain when you channel your inner Timmy hard enough.
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>>55850652
>tfw dropping a wurmcalling for 17 with panharmonicon and trostani and huatli, then +1ing and populating
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>>55848720
1v1 Emrakul is busted senpai

It's not just a mindslaver it's a mindslaver that kills with commander damage that can't be killed with instants and even if your opponent has a journey to nowhere/oblivion ring/cast out you can cast it on their creatures when you take control of them and wreck their shit.

If some neckbeard asks you to 1v1 and their commander is Emrakul tell them to fuck off because they'll just mulligan until they have enough ramp in their hand and the game will be the same every single time unless you do some busted shit in response.
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>>55847568
Spelljack is great in normal EDH. Gather Specimens is a crazy blowout in certain situations but it also wastes a lot of time sitting in your hand. If a deck can justify leaving 6 mana open for the slight chance of a blowout then it's very fun. You need lots of flash and instants to take advantage of this though.
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>>55847734
They are literally about to do this with Explorers of Ixalan though. It doesn't have Goyf and Liliana but it has multiple 10$+ cards and even a 20$ card Shared Animosity.
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>>55847776
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>>55848263
>calls other people idiots with no business sense
>doesn't even consider supply and demand and that supply could be increased

The C17 precons have been much easier for me to find than C16 was. Wotc doesn't reprint tons of super expensive cards because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. They reprint just enough value to sell the precons and they want to maintain the prices of things like Goyf so that printing Goyf as a mythic rare in a Masters set can sell a bunch of packs. The idea of precons being impossible to buy is nonsensical mental gymnastics. It is an argument pushed by wotc apologists (ie Tolarian Community College) because they don't want to acknoledge the realistic and slightly cynical business reasons for wotc's choices.

You say that wotc doesn't make money off of a card's secondary market price going up but it does provide them with an avenue to make money. If Liliana of the Veil wasn't 70$ then they wouldn't have been able to sell quite so many packs of MM17, if Thoughtseize wasn't expensive they wouldn't have sold quite so much Theros, etc. Expensive cards give them a simple way to sell many boosters in the future.
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New Thread

>>55851006
>>55851006
>>55851006
>>55851006
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>>55848395
Cloudstone Curio would be great tech to let you reuse Ball Lightnings. Cast a non-haste creature after combat and recast the haste creature next turn.
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>>55849716
Who's your commander? Zurgo can just grab his worldslayer. Otherwise, >>55849756 and >>55849780 are pretty good but I should also recommend Apocalypse and All Is Dust.

I can think of very few decks that couldn't use All Is Dust as an ultimate panic button.
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>>55850889
Yeah, but they're stabled to a board game, so it'll be a lot harder for people to scalp it.
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>>55850090
>having trouble getting to 6 mana
Are you running 20 lands or something?




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