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How the fuck do people play 5th edition and not grow brain tumors.
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>>55841266
They already have them
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the chad 5th edition

the virgin 3rd/4th
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>>55841455
you know what. that is a very good explanation for how people can play this crap.
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>>55841266
It can't really be called a "brain" tumor for 5e players, just a "cranial" tumor really.
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>>55841266
It was what, five years, of people bitching non fucking stop about how much they hated 4th edition and it was evil and wretched and devoid of any redeeming qualities, and its very existence was destroying the hobby. I remember people comparing that edition to the nazis when it launched. That was right when I started gaming, and it was unreal the fucking hatred people had for 4th edition. You would have thought you opened those books and it was just pictures of dogs fucking your mom. All they wanted was for 4th eidtion to stop existing and 3rd to be the game everyone played again, which honestly happened pretty fast anyway, since the 4e fans were so few and the 3e fans so demanding, that within a year or two almost no one even bothered to play 4e anymore. They just went back to 3, and then they all started playing pathfinder, which was the exact same game with a new cover on it, and was hailed as a masterpiece.

SoI don't know why it would surrise anyone people play and like 5th edition. It is everything a huge majority of DnD players have been demanding since 4e launched, which is to retcon its existence and go back to the 3rd edition era d20 system.

My only explanation of it is that they just hate change. Like, I hate change. When I was a little kid, I wouldn't wear new clothes, so my parents had to hang them in my closet for a few weeks until I was used to them and didn't know they were new. That's insane, but you know, I was like four, and I freaked out when something was new and had a fit. And That's what the whole ecolution from 3rd edition to 5th has seemed like to me. Toddlers having a coniption fit over something that doesn't really make sense to me, and I just sort of stand there and don't grasp why they are so angry. But to them, for some reason, it matters so fucking much. That's as best as I can understand it myself.
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>>55841853
Except 5e is about as close to 3.pf as it is to 4e.
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>>55841853
If it's only redeeming quality is being like 3e, why is it attracting tons of new people to the hobby when 4e failed to? Also holy shit learn to economy of language senpai. Literally everyone you just said can be summed up as "people like 5e because they don't like change"
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>>55841915
Hey man, youre preaching to the choir. I've never thought any of them were any different. But I'm not the one who cares.
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5ed is the closest DnD has gotten to an actual rpg instead of a combat simulator.
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>>55841921
Sorry I made you read two whole paragraphs.
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>>55841853
>I remember people comparing that edition to the nazis when it launched.

Come one now. That's just what the Internet does.
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>>55841266
In detail tell me why its shittier than the other editions.
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>>55841938
Explain. Most RPGs are combat simulators. I'm not sure why, but we have this weird idea that a combat taking 10 seconds deserves potentially a dozen fucking rolls, but a surgery taking hours and multiple complex operations should only take one, and it seems to be fucking universal.
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>>55841921
4e attracted a ton of new people to the hobby. I was part of at least three groups of people new to dnd. They just also lost old fans, and combined with the vocal hatred it made things seem worse than they were.

And then there's the media influence. 4e never had a crit role to promote it. Only the hate.
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>>55841266
How the fuck do people shitpost on /tg/ and not grow brain tumors.
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>>55841921
>It's popular so it must be good
3e and 5e both had the fortune to ride waves of increased interest in tabletop gaming. They were not the cause of those waves. The fact of the matter is that Wil Wheaton could be playing fucking FATAL and that would gain as much popularity because of it. It doesn't make FATAL a good game. It doesn't make Critical Roll a good program. It just means that there is a truly impressive amount of people totally without taste happily munching down on the most repulsively disgusting shit. People like crap, and they don't want to hear you tell them they like crap. They want to eat the same shitty crap forever and the more it stinks the more it reminds them of that one special time they almost tasted a half-digested kernel of corn.
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>GM friend has lots of ideas for campaigns, some sound legitimately interesting to me
>some would require a shitload of custom/house ruling if it used D&D
>suggest a few different game systems which support all of what he wants without house rules or custom mechanics
>have access to all of the books and expansions for suggested game systems
>"nah I know D&D so that's we'll use"

fuck sake
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>>55841938
What exactly are you talking about here? It seems like it has almost the exact same rules for out of combat stuff as 3rd and 4th edition.
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>>55842053
The rise in D&D’s popularity in 5e has been described by WotC as returning to levels not seems since the 80s. 4e didn’t reach 3.5e heights, and 5e is already well past 3.5e with the split audience from Paizo already in place.

It’s not all 5e or whatever, the whole /tg/ market is insanely popular lately compared to the 90s and 00s.
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>>55841938
t. never played a RPG
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>>55842021
Bullshit, you know why. Most people don't find surgery compelling or have any understanding of how it works even in fiction so of course it gets abstracted down to at most a few rolls.
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>>55841921
You do realize that up until Divine Power every single 4e book has been on the NYTimes bestseller list, and they had to make three print runs of the core books in months?
4e brought a lot of people in. 3.5 and Pathfinder fans just drove them off the internet.
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>>55842173
>most people don't find surgery compelling

Yeah, totally. It's not like medical dramas have been consistently successful throughout our media, with surgery frequently being a tense climax.
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>>55842173
Also bullshit to you. It comes down the fact the first commercially successful RPG was a modified wargame. Combat could, and in my opinion, should be boiled down to a single/a few rolls, like everything else.
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>>55842021
>I'm not sure why, but we have this weird idea that a combat taking 10 seconds deserves potentially a dozen fucking rolls
Some RPG's try and take realism into account, and some of the RPG's that are more complex compared to D&D will maybe use 3 to 4 rolls at most.
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>>55842222
Sure, and those medical dramas are almost always like 90% people drama, 5% medical jargon, and 5% tense medical things. People drama is difficult to handle mechanically without it becoming too game-y, which is why most systems leave the interpersonal stuff fairly loose and put the crunch on the combat side.

>>55842260
Bullshit. Nobody plays non-combat wargames because there doesn't end up being enough of a game (or at least enough of a game for an RPG to be based around it). That isn't to say that you couldn't make a good game about doctors, but it would probably be better off as some sort of resource management boardgame or deck-building card game.

>>55842021
>we have this weird idea that a combat taking 10 seconds deserves potentially a dozen fucking rolls
Because these games are predominately played by young men, and because combat is inherently tense, and because it offers an easy way for everyone to contribute without needing tons of technical knowledge.

> but a surgery taking hours and multiple complex operations should only take one
Because it would be fucking impossible to translate a surgery into something that offers turn-by-turn choices for the entire table and is capable of holding people's attention for extended periods of time. "Okay John, turn thirty-seven, roll to see if you fuck up the anesthesia this turn...Okay, you rolled a four, he crashes. Good job retard." "Mike, what do you for your turn? I ready an action to hand the doctor whatever he asks for, just like the last twenty turns."


Funnily enough, 4E, despite being the most tactical wargame-y edition of DnD since at least OD&D, actually had a fairly complex by DnD standards system for non-combat encounters. Especially post-Essentials, Skill Challenges were pretty neat.
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>>55841938
Play B/X
get a better GM
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>>55842109
I know that conversation all too well.

>This does everything you want, was made specifically to do exactly what you are trying to do, and and takes about 5 minutes max to learn the rules
>Nah, I'll homebrew something for D&D
>Months later finally able to play but only get a single game done before it falls apart because it just doesn't work.
>Start the process again with next idea
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>>55841853
4e was dogshit, and nobody except for you and your brood liked it. Now go moan "We could have saved tabletop, if it wasn't for everyone else's shit taste" somewher else,fag.
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>>55841266
They get them.

Play an actually good rpg like Gurps or Risus, all of you.
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>>55842123
>It’s not all 5e or whatever, the whole /tg/ market is insanely popular lately compared to the 90s and 00s.
In fact, sales of boardgames have steadily increased every since about 2000, which is probably partly due to video games no longer being the social activity it was during the 80's and 90's and partly due to people realizing that there are better boardgames than Monopoly. If D&D hasn't been part of that market wide surge until now, then that should tell you something about the quality of the game.
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>>55843403
Popularity has nothing to do with quality.

Twilight got popular but I couldn't get through a chapter.

It means it has a good marketing department and a bit of luck.

There are better rpgs than d&d that don't get nearly the attention.
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>>55843201
>homebrewing is what makes D&D great!

save us from this meme
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>>55841938
Hahahahaha
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>>55843754
It's a meme literally as old as the game. 90% of the content we now consider to be a classic staple of the game is a product of one of the dev's half-baked homebrews.
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What's wrong with 5E? It's a fun, simple to learn, dungeon crawling focussed RPG.

Beyond everyone here being contrarian for the sake of it because the games popular I don't see what's wrong with it.
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>>55841266
Just because you did doesn't mean the rest of us with a stable chromasome count will.
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>>55843879
>everyone here being contrarian for the sake of it because the games popular
remember where you are
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>>55843879
Nothing. Just envious shitposters here.
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Shit, wrong field
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>>55842095
>people liking things I don't like is wrong
>people finding things fun that I disagree with is worth getting mad about
lel
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>>55842625
>Nobody plays non-combat wargames
I'm not too knowledgable on this, but there has to be at least one non-combat RPG.
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>>55842065
What is this image from?
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>>55843879
It's just that these shitposters have no games to have fun in any more - sad truth
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>>55841266
>How the fuck do people have edition wars and not grow brain tumors.
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>>55841266
Because there is no evidence to support the hypothesis that any given tabletop game is more or less likely to give a person cancer than any other game.
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>>55841853
The people responsible for the failure of 4e are the people that ended up getting promotions and sticking with the company to make 5e. That says a lot about the real state of the game.

In a recent interview with Mike Mearls he suggested removing bonus actions and instead making single actions that do two things, with it's own unique name. This kind of thinking is reminiscent of 4e and why it failed and why he's more suited as a moba developer.
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>>55842109

to be fair, if you try to play with a different system no one shows up to your games.
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>>55842109
Is this Sam Hyde?
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>>55841938
Obvious bait but completely untrue. While 5e simplified combat a lot more it still requires a lot of combat which will be very repetitive.
Due to how they treated non combat features as an after thought there's no way to arbitrate complex non combat games using 5e.
The only feature you have to facilitate this is to roll the same proficiency check over and over and over and over again. Since there's no complexity or scaling anymore you just pass or fail.
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>>55844542
>Removing bonus actions...reminiscent of 4e
>4e had codified standard, move, and minor actions along with reactions.
It's actually going back to pre-WotC style D&D where the action economy was basically take an action, this action may involve multiple rolls but unless hasted, there was only one action.
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>>55841469
The wizard 2nd and earlier.
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>>55844628
Not what I'm referring to. The fact that things are wrapped up in template powers. Older editions didn't have several actions wrapped up together like that. Hiding again in plain sight was not part of backstab.
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>>55842213
>4e brought a lot of people in
The state of things leading into the development of Essentials was described as a death spiral. Overall 4e brought people in but too briefly, without securing enough of a loyal base past its launch window.

Part of the reason is in fact that they hadn't planned to be successful with books alone: as it was all originally conceived the actual physical products would almost have been like a loss leader for the D&D Insider service, which would've ultimately had piece-meal paid content and more free content, and a virtual tabletop seamlessly integrating everything. As originally pitched to Hasbro, DDI was the key to 4e's profitability post-launch.
It was crazy-ambitious, though to be honest I believe it would have simply been too early to have found much success even *if* it didn't implode from that murder/suicide. Too ahead of its time. It simply predated the ubiquity of smart devices we have now, which has pretty much by accident bolstered 5e the way they needed DDI to be 4e's tent pole.
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>>55841266
Because they're playing games and not languishing as horrific cancer on a Taiwanese sign language board.
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>>55844993
Taiwan number 1
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>>55843274
People like you are the reason D&D is full of autists
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>>55841469
3rd is just a shittier 5th
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>>55844667
>>55844542
Oh, here I was, about to defend you that you probably mean how mearls sabotaged 4e by dumbing it down in essentials.
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>>55841266
Cuz I'm not super picky about the vehicle for my fantasy escapist adventures with friends.
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>>55841266
By fucking your mom.
Everyone who ever played 5th ED did your mom to prevent getting a brain tumor.
Every. Single. Person.

There you go.
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>>55841266
Because when you play D&D it's a matter of getting players that understand the rules rather than game quality.
5e made that really easy and it's not bogged down in most of 3.5's shit. It's barely approaching mediocre in terms of actual quality, but that comes from being DeeUnDee.
Basically every edition 3 onward was shaped by the then-current video game fad.
>3.X: Diablo edition
>4e: WoW edition
>5e: Nostalgia-fueled indie game edition
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>>55842109
This is just how shit rolls. Most people can't be bothered to learn a new system just to try a new idea. Hell, most people I've played with never really learned the system we were playing with and just winged with form session to session.
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>>55841266
By not playing with uranium dice sets.
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>>55842109
What's this amazing game system you are advocating for, then?
is it GURPS?
IS IT?
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>>55843559
Spot on about the popularity bit.

>Twilight got popular but I couldn't get through a chapter.
Wussy.
I read the whole damn thing so I could answer when idiots claimed the book was better than the movie.
I'll say this: I forgive anyone for liking it if they were a young teenage girl when they read it.
Bella is just a mass of teen insecurities for the reader to relate to, not an actual character, and none of that relatablity translates to the movie.
So the movie is nearly worthless and the books should be ignored by all males and adults.

But vampires playing baseball is still cool.
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>>55841266
By not playing in tabletop games in Chernobyl?
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What's so bad about 5e?
t. Newcomer who has only ever played 5th
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>>55848450
Nothing. /tg/ is just filled with contrarians and fags jealous of the size of DnD playerbase. You often hear them moan "Popular isn't good" and "DnD is only popular due to marketing, and not due to merit". This is code for "I wish anyone except for me and two hobos I know played my system".
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>>55848655
>You often hear them moan "Popular isn't good"
Are you saying that popular does mean good?
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>>55844349
I think that it's from "moebius"
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>>55845090
preach it my man
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5e sucks because it tries to strike a middle ground between 4e philosophy and 3e design in a way that makes no sense.

4e was an awesome game, it was just a shit rp game. Im positive that if it had been marketed as "DnD Tactics" it would have been received massively better, because that's what it was, a really good tactical battle game heavily inspired by previous editions but not really capable of replacing then at what they do.

3.5 was a fucking mess, but it was popular and fun (for a lot of people) because it was a mess that felt real. You could spend weeks discovering new things about the system to build a character, and every session had a good chance of "nani the fuck?" moments where some obscure rule would come up and throw everyone off guard or provide a clever way out.

5e tries to pretend to be 3.5 but utterly fails at it because it because it lacks the width, depth, or versimilitude of rules, everything is simplified to a degree that just doesnt feel right (disengage action lets you run through an unlimitied number of threatened squares that action, grapple only reduces your ms to 0 and how no other effect, etc), but also isnt simplified to a good goal like 4es tactical combat.
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I played 5e for months because of my group and grew a brain tumour. Now I am in the process of curing it with RuneQuest.
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>muh charop strategy game
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>>55848370
I was going too continue but I got stupid into the baertimus trilogy and stopped.

Now that it's not popular why bother?
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>>55849152
>verisimilitude
Yes simulations make for a fun storytelling experience and 3.5 is so good at simulating the real world
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>>55849152
3.5 was a clusterfuck that prevents basic concepts from working. The idea that this feels like verisimilitude to some people is baffling to me. Just there being a system of rules for something doesn't make it more realistic than taking a non-mechanical common sense approach
4e had some of the slowest combat of every system I've ever played. Even gurps with it's one second rounds went faster. The system has a feel to it I didn't really like, but on a non aesthetic level I just couldn't get over that
5e sticks closer to non-4e dnd model, but removed all the shit from 3.5 that implied you couldn't do basic shit without some sort of class feature or feat. Honestly just the changes to skills and concentration alone make it leagues better than 3rd ed. Advantage and disadvantage are things I see people complain about, but I actually prefer them a lot to the alternative
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>>55849222
>but I got stupid into the baertimus trilogy
My man
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>>55844962
Close but not on point. It wasn't that 4e had no fanbase, it was that it didn't reach the impossibly high target number Hasbro wanted, and that led to a number of increasingly desperate attempts.
5e is not a better game by any means, but it does have a much more manageable production cycle and it had a better PR campaign. However, I'll let you decide if it's better to get a bronze at the Olympics or a gold at the Paralympics.
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>>55849152
>DnD tactics meme

You do realize that 4e is the only Edition of DnD that has a working conflict resolution system, comparable to what many storygames or narrative games have?
But by all means, keep enjoying your brain damage.
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>>55849781
>working conflict resolution system
I think every other system just calls that playing the fucking game
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>>55842095
>It doesn't make Critical Roll a good program

They deliberately switched to the more streamlined system from Pathfinder to make it more watchable. 5e plays faster and is easier to follow.




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