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Previous thread: >>56799059
>Pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm
>News
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/changeling-the-lost-2nd-edition
http://theonyxpath.com/one-of-a-kind-deviant-the-renegades/
>This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
http://theonyxpath.com/no-spring-skips-its-turn-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question:
What's the composition of your current game's coterie/pack/whatever?
>New Geist preview
http://theonyxpath.com/all-souls-day-preview-geist-the-sin-eaters/
>New Deviant preview
http://theonyxpath.com/variations-on-a-theme

If you're looking for the new Changeling stuff, check the last thread.
>>
>>56811461
>What's the composition of your current game's coterie/pack/whatever?

A courtless Ogre witchtooth, an NPC best true friend from summer and a 9-year-old manikin elemental also from summer.

Outside of the Motely is a Toxic elemental from spring (think Tim Curry in ferngully) with a heavy Greek accent.


Werewolf: A hobo with a crossbow, (Cahalith with both lunar gifts at 5) bone shadow, Bouncer turned court officer Rahu blood talon and a middle age autist biology professor Hunter in Darkness.
>>
>>56811461
>coterie
I'm gearing up for new campaign and I'm still waiting for 2 players to present me with concepts. So far we have
>Mekhet - former cop turned private eye. His employer embraced him after he found him on the brink of death after being beaten by some unrelated(to employers case) thugs
> Ventrue - his girl turned out to be vampire from some weirdo tight knit dynasty. Now he is passed over to local branch after his sires temper tantrum
>>
>dinner didn't go so well, getting ready for bed
>can't sleep in your old room because your dad converted it into a study / ritual chamber
>can't sleep on the living room couch, the leather is uncomfortable in hishu
>can't sleep on it in urhan because mom would be pissed about you putting claws near it
>fall asleep on the floor in urhan in a pile of throw pillows
>11 year old sister sneaks downstairs in the middle of the night in urhan
>AND HOWLS DIRECTLY INTO YOUR FACE
>startled your animal brain goes into flight mode, you run DIRECTLY into the corner of the coffee table, fall over yelping in pain
>parents rush downstairs, dad in dalu
>they see your sister rolling on the floor laughing so hard she's crying
>it takes them a moment to figure out what happened before laughing too
>>
So there is a harbringer of skull's related merit in lore of the bloodlines (it doesn't seem to be restricted to them though).

I'm wondering if this wraith-vampire thing would be able to use arcanoi? can wraiths that are possessing people use arcanoi (i do not remember).

Half-Life (6pt. Merit)
You’re more than just a vampire; you’re a wraith in
vampire form. Your awareness of the realities of death
enables you to spend half the regular experience points cost
for increasing Necromancy Paths after the first point, and
permits you to move between Shadowlands and Skinlands
through the expenditure of a Willpower point. You cannot
be controlled as a normal spirit through use of Necromancy, but should other vampires discover what you are, you
can expect to be hunted mercilessly. You suffer the same
weaknesses and have the same strengths as a vampire, but
if viewed with a power such as Aura Perception (V20, p.
135) the aura appears as a double-exposure, with a wavering,
translucent humanoid shape merging in and out of yours.
>>
>>56811585
This is still hilarious.
>>
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>>56811461
*Steals your vitae*.
Nothing personal kid
>>
>>56811662
Sounds like a really useful merit desu
Iirc they can only use some arcanoi
>>
>>56811461
>Irraka Storm Lord
Alpha. Very traditional, grew up in a tribal family, always 'knew' he'd go through the change and devoted himself to being the most werewolfy werewolf an Uratha can be. Old friends with the SM Rahu and confides in her, respects the Ithaeur's knowledge, kinda wanted to bang the Hunterheart, respects the Ghost Wolf's strength but feels threatened by him. In his player's words, he tries hard to be the kind of guy that could lift Mjolnir, but he knows the Ghost Wolf is definitely the kind of guy that could pick it up.

>Rahu Storm Lord
Grew up with the alpha and relied on him to get through abuse at school and home, was taken in by his family when she went through her First Change and turned her family to confetti. Super loyal and wants the D but is too professional to initiate. Is the reason the alpha is the alpha, since the other pack members don't care who's in charge and she thinks he's hot shit. Respects both the Ithaeur and GW but finds the former insufferably boring and is suspicious of how little sceptical the latter is. The Hunterheart frustrates her for obvious reasons.

>Ithaeur Bone Shadow
First Change'd while super high and killed a load of other teens, remains guilty about it. Throws himself into Uratha life and devotes himself to spirit problems as a result, and comes off as sort of dull and single-minded. Wandered on his own for a while after being initiated before finding somewhere in need of his skills. Pretty closed off toward most of the group, but enjoys discussing Uratha lore with the GW.
>>
>>56812157

>Rahu Ghost Wolf
Perpetual loner who never felt like he had a place. Went through his First Change during his tour in Afghanistan, got shipped home because it looked like he was the sole survivor of horrible ambush. Fascinated with but sceptical of Uratha mythology and has kinda become a professional adventurer, seeking out lore and solving supernatural problems on the road until meeting the pack and falling in with them. Clashes with the alpha a lot due to high empathy for normal people. Banging the...

>Hunterheart Changeling
Not a werewolf, obviously. Attached herself to the pack for protection, possibly on the lamb from her Freehold. Comes off as a sort of uninhibited boundary-pusher type. Initially showed interest in the alpha to cement her place, then realized she liked the Ghost Wolf more. Something of a guilty manipulator, I think, in that she only knows how to interact with people manipulatively but feels shitty about it later. Newest member so I know the least about her.
>>
>>56812074
>Sounds like a really useful merit desu
Xp discounts and easy dimension shifting are pretty good, i guess.
>Iirc they can only use some arcanoi
I'll go look around.
>>
>>56811461
>What's the composition of your current game's coterie/pack/whatever?
-Mastigos Mystagogue who's pretty sure she's read about this in a book before.
-Obrimos Adamantine Arrow who's on a mission to determine which supernaturals make the best kindling.
-Moros Adamantine Arrow that's only loosely associated with her order. Mostly spends time exploring the Underworld and Shadow, trying to develop a Legacy that unifies the two worlds.
-Ex-Malleus Maleficarum Hunter that spontaneously developed into a Proximi. The resulting crisis of faith drove him to question his alliegences, and he ran into the rest of the group on a solo vampire hunt.
>>
>>56811585
>can't sleep in your old room because your dad converted it into a study / ritual chamber

Typical.
>>
>>56812157
>>56812186
>that one player who wants to play but doesn't want to be an icky werewolf joins
>her character immediately devastates the pack balance

This feels strangely familiar.
>>
>>56811461
Question for magefags. Does active mage sight recognize whether the target is sleeper?
>>
>>56812536
No, there will be no overt sign that the target is a normal human.
>>
>>56812074
Well, as far as a I can tell nothing prohibits you from using arcanoi while possessing something.

But if you are in a physical form there are obviously going to be some thing you can't do.
>>
>>56812628
I'm asking because Death spell Suppress aura kinda implies it does:
>The mage suppresses the personal aura of her subject. The sub-
>ject’s Nimbus disappears and magical resonances around her are
>dampened, including the resonances of spells currently affecting
>her. She appears as a Sleeper to Mage Sight.
>>
>>56812799
It just means they show up with no supernatural effects on them, as in they register as a normie through the LACK of any special signs.
>>
>>56812849
So is there any way of recognizing a sleeper aside of Prime's Supernal Vision?
>>
>>56812933
I suppose, if you've really gotta know, that the best you can do is throw all your Knowing and Unveiling spells at them and look at them with all of your Mage Sights and if you don't see anything supernatural, take the chance.
>>
>>56812965
That doesn't sound like it would tell between sleeper and sleepwalker.
>>
>>56811461
>What's the composition of your current game's coterie/pack/whatever?
Ivory Claw Saturi: The sneering leader of our force, works as alpha alongside Marisi. Has eye patch with silver on it. Very tough, has ghost familiar.

Ithaeur Iron Master Marisi: Our spirit mastermind. Just came back from Persia where he was on the spirit warfare side of things. This is sort of rest duty for him but he seems interested in building a lot of fetishes. Much more laid back than the Saturi, still very Roman.

Ithaeur Blood Talon Foederati: Only woman in group, is basically Marisi's bodyguard. Think she's Egyptian, was a hunter (Vigil hunter) before her first change, acts very mysterious, has weird sword. We do the grunt work.

Predator King Foederati: Me. Raised under the Night Tribes but taken before his first change. Intimidated by the spirit stuff but very dominant with humans and non-Roman werewolves, inspired a little by Conan and Simon Magus.

Aquila totem: We're on special business so we have this wolf-lightning thing. It reminds me of the electrical gremlin from Gremlins 2. It sometimes manifests as a priestess, seems to like hanging out with us if we're not in the spirit world.
>>
>>56813172
Oh, well that's an easy one. Cast any overt spell and see if you suffer Paradox.
>>
>>56813182
>Pure and forsaken in the same pack.

What? How?
>>
>>56813311
SOP in Rome.
>>
I am running a forsaken game. So far is great all the PC are slowly choosing tribes.

Here is the thing though, the book says tribes are a net of information about preys with secrets and shit.

And one of my players wants to visit the local hunter in darkness (he just joined the tribe) but I can't think of any "info about prey with secrets and shit" for them beyond, "learn and area of damage gift"

The pack already encounter a rat and spider host. Any suggestions?
>>
>>56813311
Rome (and later, Thailand) had aspects that made werewolves put their issues to the side and focus on the greater glory. The Roman Empire was ruled by a protectorate of IM Marisi and IC Saturi.
>>
>>56813435
Have a pack of just Hunters in Darkness who act like part of the watchers council from Buffy. They watch/record mystic stuff for occasions like this. Or more scientific take, they can be like scientists.
Unless player has a mentor merit make it cost something.
>>
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>>56812157
>>56812186
>both Storm Lords got cucked
>>
>>56813435
Well, one thing they can teach him about are the rarer and more insidious types of Hosts. They're the HiD's chosen prey, after all.
>>
Go into the pastebin and get WtF: Predators, it has a big section on hosts.

Beshilu will crawl inside your chest cavity, eat your heart (controlling your body) then merge with you, gradually turning you into a rat man.

Azlu will go into your ear or nose and start eating your brain, taking control of your body as they do it, eventually turning you into a Spider-man, then a drider.

While pretending to be human they can cause a lot of trouble.

When you kill them, they burst into swarms of rats or spiders, which all run away in different directions so they're hard to kill.
>>
What's the /CofD/ consensus of the new Changeling manuscript stuff?
>>
>>56811461
Question, in mage: the ascension do you have to join one of the factions.

Cause quite frankly, most of them suck.

Does being a part of a faction give special benefits I’m unaware about, or does something really bad happen to those who fly solo?
>>
>>56813198
I suspect the action was intended to avoid precisely that.
>>
>>56813896
>do you have to join one of the factions
No. You can be a Hollow One, but you won't have a dominant Sphere.
>>
>>56811461
>>56811461
Gangrel lady who was Embraced in the 50's but something went wrong, and has been asleep merged with the Earth for sixty years. Woke up in a feral state and slowly regained her Humanity over 2-3 years. Now she's acclimating to a new era, watching over her sister's descendants, and trying to find out what happened after her Embrace.

Lasombra antitribu. Former detective from a prominent family, Embraced for his wits and connections. Couldn't reconcile the Path of Night or the Sabbat's savagery with his faith and fled the clan. Being tutored by the local Sheriff, who is also antitribu.

Mekhet larcenist who was Embraced recently by an ambassador from her clan. Kinda superstitious even by vampire standards, has lots of criminal connections, acts very jaded. Treats the whole vampire thing like being in a crime family or a cult.

Toreador actually a Lamia whose Sire helped facilitate the Lasombra's flight from the Sabbat. Tasked with working with him in his local efforts actually working to destroy the local Giovanni branch, and has the Lasombra onboard through gratitude.

Effeminate Brujah dude who most people mistake for a Toreador. No known Sire, no status, but he's intensely likable so far to pretty much everyone he meets. Genuinely too attractive for his own good, has drawn our group into trouble due to two ancilla fighting over him.
>>
>>56813896
There is a "faction" for those who dont want to join factions. But its kinda weird.
>>
>>56814328
>Effeminate Brujah dude who most people mistake for a Toreador. No known Sire, no status, but he's intensely likable so far to pretty much everyone he meets. Genuinely too attractive for his own good, has drawn our group into trouble due to two ancilla fighting over him.
thats pretty gayyyyyyy
>>
>>56814411
It's less gay if it's two female ancilla, right?
>>
How would I kill a vampire elder as an Obrimos with Forces at four, Prime at three and Spirit at three?

The vampire has two disciplines at five, Dominate and Celerity.
>>
>>56815128
>forces four
>create fire
>>
>>56815128
If you can hold on for a while the advantage should shift to your favor. Disciplines (Celerity especially) are powerful but get expensive. No joke, you have at least Gnosis 3 so one of those slots should go to a Creative Thaum'd Kinetic Shield spell, you should see about getting your hands on a Mental Shield, maybe trade favors with a good Mind Mage or see about an imbued item with your Order Status, and use Thunderbolt but styled to be fire damage instead. Just say you're Patterning the energy into fire instead of electricity. Don't be scared to set everything on fire, because your Forces 4 Attainment should protect you from extreme environments. Naturally that means you have to pick the battlefield. And get good mundane armor so you can stack it with your Forces armor.
>>
First, only a fool engages in a one on one white room battle.

Why does the Obrimos want to kill vampire (other than good moral character)? Do either of the parties have allies, servants or cults, etc., to avoid getting their hands dirty or for support and assistance?

If the Obrimos wants to get really nasty and maintain deniability, he has more than sufficient means to protect himself from and negotiate with a strix and point him in the direction of the vampire.

Forces 4 alone is more than sufficient to render a mage virtually immune to physical harm and control fire, sunlight and other forces to utterly annihilate an opponent. Also note that dominate, to the extent that creative use of Prime cannot counter, requires eye contact. Forces can render nullify light to make such contact impossible while still providing more than ample sensory compensation (infrared and heat-sensing vision, motion detection, etc.). Forces can similarly nullify celerity with ease. Besides speeding up the mage, celerity is not much use against someone who controls gravity.

It's not a matter of how the mage would win, but how badly he wants to humiliate the vampire.
>>
>>56815329
>Obrimos want to kill vampire (other than good moral character)

Indeed. No self-respecting Obrimos needs a reason or excuse to take out the blood-sucking undead trash.
>>
>>56815128
No idea about mage but advice against elder with disciplines like this
a) don't go for directly hiting him with stuff he can probably dodge it(also watch out for him interrupting your actions)
b) you need a way to counter his dominate because he is faster on a draw and this is what he would likely go for
>>
>>56815205
>>56815241
>>56815329
Be aware that the vampire can conceivably use Celerity to push himself to the front of the Initiative cue, and Dominate or strike before the mage can do anything.

So definitely try to get a mental shield from an outside source beforehand.
>>
>>56815128
This is fucking retarded. Vampires have absolutely no way of dealing with spirits. Your elder is fucked through and through. You don't even need to be there to kill it.
>>
>>56815419
There's multiple rituals and even a whole discipline devoted to spirit dealings.
>>
>>56815388
>So definitely try to get a mental shield from an outside source beforehand.
Or just be out of sight. Casting from sensory range doesn't mean it has to see you, just you have to see them. Plus you're not flailing your arms around screaming spellwords. Stand on a building and use your spell, use reach for duration, and it's engulfed in flames for the entire scene, more than long enough to kill it.
>>
>>56815388
Can't you counter dominate by silencing the room with forces so the vamp can't issue commands?
>>
>>56815456
Not in Requiem. Certain ones can affect certain spirits, albeit minimally.

Blood sorcery would definitely work. Though not many are going to have the means for a situation such s this.
>>
>>56815499
>Not in Requiem. Certain ones can affect certain spirits, albeit minimally.
There's a spirit-based discipline in Requiem and a ton of rituals, they just wouldn't be that useful if a mage was sending waves of spirits to kill you. Maybe some of the rituals, but anon already said the vampire has dominate and celerity and made no mention of it being a spirit-witch
>>
>>56811461
How do you make your angels/demons terrifying to your players in hunters? Bones and flesh have an appeal but... gears and steel?
>>
>>56815520
>There's a spirit-based discipline in Requiem

You're thinking of a Devotion
>>
Are your players really pissing their pants over skeletons and rolling their eyes at clockwork monstrosities that shoot lasers made of annihilation?
>>
>>56815521
Terrifing to look at or terrifying because of the powers the wield?
>>
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>>56815532
Skeletons aren't a joke, bro.
>>
Why discuss this? It's already been acknowledged that Mages have more advantages than everybody else.
>>
>>56815538
Terrifying to make my players shiver. Description-wise
>>
>>56815529
>You're thinking of a Devotion
No, I'm thinking of Blood Tenebrous, the spirit-based Discipline.
>>
>>56815557
Well even providing just a little bit of stats makes it a more interesting scenario to think about.
>>
>>56815570
Oh that. That's not going to be useful at all.
>>
>>56815128
Don't fight him directly, find out where he lives and send spirits at him. He'll probably survive but have to flee.

If you fight him in a direct conformation he'll use celerity to act before you, and either dominate you into putty or kill you. An elder vampire most likely has enough dots in strength to kill you outright in one hit.
>>
Is there a campaign setting where vampires are above spellcasters in power?
>>
>>56815601
>If you fight him in a direct conformation he'll use celerity to act before you, and either dominate you into putty or kill you. An elder vampire most likely has enough dots in strength to kill you outright in one hit.

Do you pretend that all Mages are retards?
>>
This Saturday the Darker Days Radio are interviewing Meghan Fitzgerald - the developer of Changeling: the Lost 2nd Edition. If anyone wants to leave a question, the hosts are collecting them on Facebook:
tinyurl com y82pusjn
>>
>>56815612
Just use Blood Sorcery and make it more widespread.
>>
>>56815662
That supplement won't change anything
>>
>>56813462
Dubai has a pack that's half Pure and half Forsaken too. Apparently the two sides hate each other but work together for their family's overall power. Wealth > factions.
>>
>>56815653
No? But then again the vampire probably isn't retarded either.

All I'm saying is that if you fight him straight up, with no countermeasures active beforehand, he'll win instantly simply by moving way faster. A lot of countermeasures are risky, too, in case he has merits that fuck with them. It's best to just mob him with spirits.
>>
>>56813435
>but I can't think of any "info about prey with secrets and shit" for them beyond, "learn and area of damage gift"

I mean, that's a pretty good starting point. Have the Hunder go over some of the really basic shit just to doublecheck the new guy knows what the fuck he's doing - aoe damage, fire control talens, One Step Ahead to check where the Shard is going to run to, and all that.
>>
>>56815612
Those aren't typically mutually exclusive categories.
>>
>>56815699
Mechanically speaking the Mage will likely survive via Mage Armor. Only needs to tag the Vampire once to kill it.

Realistically speaking, the Mage is going to walk into the fight immune to kinetic assaults.

Mobbing him with spirits is the lazy method.
>>
>>56815699
Vampire can't use Celerity when gravity is up its ass.
>>
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>Discussion has shifted from "How can it be done with my skills?" to "The Mage is going to undeniably destroy the Elder without getting a scratch on him, no two ways about it".
Aaaand it's not fun anymore.
>>
>>56815747
Thing is this elder won't likely try to punch him to death. Pop celerity before mage can turn away, dominate, tell him to turn of the armor, shot in the face

>>56815568
I dunno I would be scared shitless by a guy who can kill everyone in the room with a simple gun before they can react in any way.
But anyway - look for phyrexians from magic the gathering. Disturbing enough
>>
>>56813435
>>56813542
There are many other Host types. Snake Host, Locust Host, Crow Host, Fungus Host, Worm Host and Wolf Host. They're scattered among the supplements.

Some of the writers published extra Hosts on the Onyx Path forums. Those are Lamprey Host (a real good one) and Mosquito Host.

Some advanced Host-victim fusions are implied to have unique magics, and London Beshilu were confirmed to have a society and religion. Those are tidbits that may be useful to know.

The second edition books mentioned two Lodges that focus on Hosts. The first Lodge utilizes the cycle of seasons somehow, to fix the aftermath of infestation. The other detects Hosts before they spread, to nip infestation in the bud.


Also, since Hosts mess with the Gauntlet, Hunters in Darkness should be most informed about how the Gauntlet works, how to get into it and how it can go awry.

Other than that, make stuff up.
>>
>>56815835
>implying someone with 4 dots in forces doesn't know how to kill a vampire
It was a troll from the first post.
>>
>>56815850
>Pop celerity before mage can turn away, dominate, tell him to turn of the armor, shot in the face

Sorry, the non-dumbass mage prepared for that too.
>>
>>56815828
And if you start the combat without that active, he'll use celerity to kill you before you cast that gravity null.

I've seen this happen. Mage player thinks he's about to win easily, vampire pushes his initiative ahead of his, then dice spikes and does way more damage than he can armor off in one hit. Ded mage.

Don't get into fights you don't have to. If you DO have to, don't do it stupidly.
>>
>>56815835
As a vampire player and with his skills I would say nuke the place with fire and hold a spirit as a backup. Also do not turn of the lights with forces because he can still see you. Also with dominate it is you who has to avoid even seeing his eyes not him that has to lock gaze with you
>>
>>56815850
>dominate

>mage silences sound
>mage merges with spirit of lucid thought
>mage uses prime to see through the lies

you're a funny guy, guy.

this is assuming the vampire can even use celerity in the vicinity to begin with
>>
>>56815889
The thing is, you're assuming the mage is a moron. If the mage knows what he's fighting the elder is finished.

Vampires don't win against prep Mages.
>>
>>56815875
Look if we stick adventages and what is possible for people one way or the other we can push some absurd stuff like mage getting evicted or having hot water shut off in his apartment.
>>
>>56815923
You're assuming the Mage knows how to perfectly counter the Elder, and that the Elder can't be prepared in turn.
>>
>>56815601
>If you fight him in a direct conformation he'll use celerity to act before you, and either dominate you into putty or kill you. An elder vampire most likely has enough dots in strength to kill you outright in one hit.

I'm hardly a mage supremacy fag, and generally don't care about featureless white room one-on one splat duels, but virtually no kinetic-type attack or tactics, regardless of strength or speed, pose much of threat to a Obrimos mage with Forces 4, Prime 3 and Spirit 3. The Arcana spread also permit more than ample defense against Dominate.

An Obrimos Adept, even a stupid and incompetent one (**cough** Free Council **cough**), is practically a purpose-built vampire killin' machine.
>>
>people acting like the mage will definitely oneshot the vampire

With celerity 5 is defense is likely insane, and if he's an elder he's going have a very high resistance trait to direct effect spells.
>>
>>56815923
>Vampires don't win against prep Mages.
>I'm hundreds of years old and your parents are blood bonded to me. If I die, they will reveal all your secrets and commit suicide.
>>
The fact that you guys are arguing over Celerity and Dominate, the two best Disciplines to use against Mages, is evident proof of how weak Vampires are.
>>
Trying to get into Changeling: the lost. What's everyone's reccomendation as far as seeming/court for someone just starting out?
>>
>>56815942
>You're assuming the Mage knows how to perfectly counter the Elder
You're assuming it's hard for a Mage to find this out, or ask his peers, or the Mysterium.
>and that the Elder can't be prepared in turn.
Prep for a vampire is far different than prep for a mage.

>>56815950
>I'm hundreds of years old and your parents are blood bonded to me. If I die, they will reveal all your secrets and commit suicide.
I don't think the Mage is going to care because 'muh hubris'
>>
>>56815948
>if he's an elder he's going have a very high resistance trait to direct effect spells
Depends on what trait. Direct damage spells don't have a Withstand rating, and indirect spells aren't Withstood at all.
>>
>>56815963
Hmm I do nto think one seeming or ocurt is more difficult to play then another. I would start with some reasonably simple character story tho.
>>
>>56815950
>>I'm hundreds of years old and your parents are blood bonded to me. If I die, they will reveal all your secrets and commit suicide.
Mages have no connection to humanity beyond proximi, this wouldn't work.
>>
>>56815948
>With celerity 5 is defense is likely insane, and if he's an elder he's going have a very high resistance trait to direct effect spells.

Sensory and area of effect range spells ignore defense entirely, and there's no Withstand to direct damage spells, and even many indirect damage effect.
>>
>m-my celerity will prevail!
>r-right guys...?

No.
>>
>>56815128
Prime will make you invis to a vampire.
SpiritTwilight + create fire makes it a non issue.
Why are you even asking this question.

Oh wait, to start a fucking argument. Fuck off troll.
>>
>>56815956
The best Discipline is probably Nightmare, desu.

The five dot ability is only really countered by Mind, is direct damage, doesn't require sight or sound, etc. But obviously it's completely countered by Mind.
>>
Niggas, the WW themselves counseled us to not mix different games.
>>
>>56815601
>>56815699
>>56815850
>>56815925

Here we have a prime example of a butthurt vampfag desperate in his attempts to reinforce what little self esteem he has.
>>
>>56815950
>I'm hundreds of years old and your parents are blood bonded to me

Threatening a mage's family using supernatural powers.

Congratulations, short bus elder just made himself a threat to the entire Consilium / Assembly / Ministry.

The vampire will be lucky if the sentinels only kill him. With magic, there are many fates far worse than death.
>>
>>56815982
> ask his peers, or the Mysterium

>To sum up, Mysterium mages can easily
acquire what members of another supernatural
group consider common knowledge,
but after that, information gets sketchy and
theoretical. For anything more, use the story
factors above to drive your game’s plot and,
when necessary, maintain the balance of
power in a crossover game.
>>
>>56815956

>celerity and dominate vs an invisible and intangible person who can cast spells at you from twilight.

vampfags are fucking clueless.
>>
>>56816055
>implying the Consilium cares about a Mage's parents
>implying SEERS would care about a Mage's parents
Really?
>>
>>56816063
>maintain the balance of power in a crossover game.

lol
>>
>>56815943
>An Obrimos Adept is purpose-built vampire killin' machine.

>TFW Moros feel left out
>>
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>>56816048
>>
>>56816027
Funny thing nightmare is one discipline that I haven't seen anyone use in years. Dunno why
>>
>>56816080
Awww don't feel bad. It's more of a meme (still true) if anything. Death will be equally as terrifying as Forces.
>>
>>56816055
>Congratulations, short bus elder just made himself a threat to the entire Consilium / Assembly / Ministry.
>thinking mages look out for each other
oh so cute, you must have just come over from pugmire
>>
>>56816078

It's not a matter of caring about a particular mage's parent, but rather teaching a painful lesson an uppity leech.

Mage society is largely organized around conflict resolution and defense and self-preservation. Letting vampires or anyone else believe that they can threaten mages' families with impunity would never be tolerated.
>>
>>56816113
I can imagine that one seer comming to his ministry and saying
>vampire is holding my fammily hostage.

True. There are worse things than death
>>
>>56816055
Excuse me, but why the fuck would my mage give a fuck about your mage's parents? That's your problem nigga. Nobody in the Ministry is wasting their time with that, they've got obsessions to follow.
>>
>>56816142
>what is a cabal
>>
>>56816113
It's canon that the Mysterium looks out for itself and cares little for the other Orders.

So yes, you threaten one Mystagougue and you're fucked for a hundred lives.
>>
>>56816080
>>56816100
>TFW Moros feel left out

Heck, dirty Thrysus can beat-up a measly vampire. Leeches are even less threatening than woofs and changelings.

>Still frightened of ex-Amish bloggers with cell phone cameras
>>
You antagonize one Mage you're antagonizing a whole group of the mat the same time.

Cabals don't fuck around. They form close bonds over the dangers of what they deal with. Trust is a big issue in Mage affairs.
>>
>>56816149
You didn't say cabal. You said that an entire organization would respond.

That's bullshit. I know for a fact that if some younger mage rolled up to the Concilium like "uh I fucked up and a vampire has my parents" the overwhelming response would be "yes, you did fuck up, now prepare to be penalized for your stupidity and go sort it out yourself, this isn't our problem."
>>
>>56816149
>hat is a cabal

>Seers have Pylons
>>
>>56816128
The Consilium is there to keep MAGES in line. They don't care about YOUR problems. They'll tell you to take it to your cabal and handle your own problems like a big boy.
>>
>>56816171
>Heck, dirty Thrysus can beat-up a measly vampire

Remember. Life can influence Disciplines too. Derpity derpity.
>>
>>56816171
>Still frightened of ex-Amish bloggers with cell phone cameras

.....And we are back to plain supremacy
>>
>>56816171
>Leeches are even less threatening than woofs and changelings

At least 2e Changeling at least seem competent.
>>
I never thought that Mage would be the biggest obstacle to actually discussing Mage.
>>
Has anyone actually played nu-Mummy?

If so, how did it go? It seems more interesting to read about than play at a glance.
>>
Vampire: The Masquerade related question.

Three Vampires are engaged in a fight. One vampire disables both of them. The winning vampire is a Tremere who uses Mark of Amaranth Ritual and succeeds on one vampire after diablarizing the other. Theoretically, the Tremere has no diablarist taint to their aura nor any evidence of diablarie, correct?
>>
Incredible what a single buttblasted Vampire player can instigate.
>>
>>56816190
er no, let one vampire off with kidnapping somebodys family and every vampire will be at it.

Snub it in the bud right there and make the Mage work off his debt to all those mages who helped him.
>>
I wish Hellboy-kun was still around to stop this.
>>
>>56816236
>more interesting to read about than play at a glance.

Tell me about it. Read the books and liked them but I can't pitch a game for shit. My ST wall is devoid of mummy ideas even if I would like to try the game out
>>
>>56816243
>no explanation of ritual

nobody gives a shit, cant tremere taste diablerie in blood even if no aura taint?
>>
>>56816251
>er no, let one vampire off with kidnapping somebodys family and every vampire will be at it.
And it still won't be the Consilium's problem.
>>
It's just frustration and irritability as magfags endlessly wait for the Mage FAQ and Signs of Sorcery.
>>
>>56816281
There is a reason you have no real friends anon.

This is why.
>>
>>56812157
>In his player's words, he tries hard to be the kind of guy that could lift Mjolnir, but he knows the Ghost Wolf is definitely the kind of guy that could pick it up.

What, exactly, does this mean?
>>
>>56816285
I want those things too, bad, but you don't see me publicly masturbating.
>>
>they try to wank celerity and dominate
>doesn't work
>they try to paint mages as heartless bastards with no friends
>doesn't work
>>
>>56816302
>There is a reason you have no real friends anon.

His mage is just jealous because he doesn't get invited to all the good Seer parties with the vampire strippers and magic coke.
>>
>>56816251
Before your mage is done running circles in consilium locla sheriff will probably bring said vamp staked to them and leave without saying anything. Invictus cares for stability. No shit stirring and carthina stupidity
>>
>>56816285
Does Mage really need that FAQ this badly?
>>
>>56816341
>sheriff?

Mage...
>>
>>56816367
Mage 2e has a lot of vagueness that needs clearing up.
>>
>>56816279

Whoops, sorry about that.

The Ritual Action: Taking a personal item from a Vampire and then placing it on the ashes of the Vampire the Thaumatuge just slew. The Vampire that owned the personal item will, for several weeks, appear as a Diablarist to any aura checks. I'm wondering if there is a way to frame the scene so that one Vampire appears to have diablarized the other. It may just be a temporary thing though, diablarie is supposed to stick.
>>
>>56815851
Do any of them have stats or prewritten powers?
>>
>>56816369
How do you not understand that he meant the vampire sheriff would take care of the dumb vampire to prevent an incident?
>>
>>56816369
Yes. I'm talking in Invictus ruled cities local sheriff will deal with someone who stirrs shit. Or someone higher up will have conflicted sides kiss and make up
>>
>>56816268
I feel like playability is a consistent problem with WoD
>>
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>we're having a nice thread with people talking about their campaigns
>magefag posts obvious bait
>everyone responds to it, thread is now shit

Why won't you assholes learn?
>>
>>56816418
When you think about it Wraith the Oblivion and Promethean are not on the high end of playability either. Concepts are cool and all but when you sit down with the book and wonder wtf are you supposed to do you come up blank. At least for me it is like this
>>
>>56816394
Thinking a sheriff can just wander up to the consilium like that is beyond fucking retarded.

Vampires might have some batphone they can call or some shit but yeh its not the first thing you jump too.
>>
>>56816435
Speaking of campaigns, I just ran my first game, ever, on Tuesday night. CofD 2e, Mortals. We're the same group that's doing the Mage campaign, only Legacyfag is a player instead of the ST in this one.
>>
>>56816480
Mind shareing some details? That are not supposed to be hidden from players obviously
>>
>>56814328
>Lasombra
>Mekhet
>same group

Whaaaaaa-
>>
>>56816445
It really makes you wonder how little they playtest, and just go "for advanced roleplayers lol" as a bandaid.
>>
>>56816649
>advanced roleplayers
Does this mean 'player who read every book and every supplement cover to cover'? Because that seems to be what's needed for players of CofD. Which sounds reasonable until you want new players.
>>
>>56816649
Well whatever our opinions about people like Hill or MacFarland might be they are writers so they can probably figure out plot hooks and stories better then most STs here.
But if I would make a guess I would say they probably run 2-3 campaigns and called it a day
>>
>>56816367
>Does Mage really need that FAQ this badly?

There are some issues that really need clarification. Two in particular, when a spell can be Lasting and desperately needed guidance on the creation and use of imbued items and artifacts, would be welcome.
>>
>>56816462
>Vampires might have some batphone they can call

There are definitely some vampires and mages with lines of communication precisely to avoid stupid incidents, largely by young and inexperienced members on both sides, that could jeopardize the Masquerade and/or ruin or detract from Mysteries.
>>
>>56816503
Sure, no problem. It's meant to be a very basic game, meant to just let me get a feel for the storyteller's kit before we move on to the second Mage game that I'll be running alongside Legacyfag running the first, but everyone enjoyed it.

It's set in the current day, in a small town in upstate Washington, named Felicity (but it used to be named Pine Valley) and the old Sheriff, Sheriff Day, was brutally murdered in his own home, in a very specific and weird fashion, just after Thanksgiving. But the game itself is starting weeks after that, already 5 days into December.

The player characters are Brad Reynolds, the new Sheriff of Felicity who was transferred there to replace Sheriff Day. He's an earnest guy but kind of disillusioned with the law, but he still wants to help people. Skilled at investigation and police combat. Then you've got Harold Brannigan, an old 70-something but hardy and fit man who was a kind of street tough thug in his younger days, but has settled in Felicity with his daughter and teenage grandkids, a pretty imposing and no-nonsense guy. To round out the trio you've got Kelsey Blake, a 20 year old girl who is just pushing along, but is good with animals and very good at driving and is Harold's neighbor.

I can and will write up the session in a pdf file similar to Boston Lights, if even a single person wants, but in summary they have to deal with a Horror (that they have dubbed the Satanwalker) who appears to be after Kelsey and her mother. The only physical details they have on the Satanwalker is what they've seen, a charred hoof attached to a burned, furry leg and a blackened stag skull with jagged horns. Its appearances seem to be heralded by localized power outages and it appears through roiling fire, and it seems to hate Santa.
>>
>>56816692
Imho it isn't that bad for whole Wod/Cofd. Some games are easier to get for new players than others. If I would rate stuff by how easy you can come up with plot hooks and set up games top to bottom

HtV, Mortal, Mortal+
VtR, WtF, CtL, DtD
Mage, Geist(Geist is here due to lack of material)
MtC, PtC
Beast(because it is a turd)
>>
Questions:
>is prime 5 worth investing in?
>is it worth having 5 dots in avatar?
>prime seems pretty limited in what it can do compared to matter, life, energy or soul. Is it even worth considering?

Ascension btw
>>
>>56816761
Sounds fun. Good luck.

Technical question: do you plan to stick to the main plot or do you have side quests on stand by?
>>
>>56816721
Spells can be lasting when it says in their description via a reach.

Any other instance is ST fiat and no amount of FAQ text is going to solve that problem.
>>
>>56816833
I'm not quite sure. It's meant to be a shorter game, but I won't railroad them if they have things they want to explore.
>>
>>56816829
>is prime 5 worth investing in?
Prime is practically mandatory in Ascension.

>matter, life, energy or soul
>energy or soul
????????????
>>
>>56816829
Doesn't Prime 5 let you make charms without the appropriate types of Quintessence to match the effects?
>>
>>56816896
>>56816829
>energy or soul?

Forces and Entropy or Spirit???
>>
>>56816875
If you ever pdf the game throw in some details on the town if you don't mind. I for one like to throw my players into "small town with dark secret" setting.
>>
>>56816916
I’m still bad with names and crap.

I’ve only really read the VTM 20 book (well and the MtA20 book now)

Thinking about playing so I’m basically puzzling about what Prime even does.

Is it metamagic sort of stuff?
>>
>>56816940
I'll write up what I came up with once the game is finished, and I'll go ahead and write up the premise with the first session.
>>
>>56816243
The ritual cosmetically reproduces diablerie veins, it doesn't do anything to give someone your aura. They'd both look like they did it until it wore off the next night and the Tremere's soul still looked like shit.
>>
>>56816957

Prime in Ascension is very powerful, but no Sphere stands well on its own since most effects require multiple Spheres.

Download the M20 supplement "How Do You Do That" to get a better sense of what the Spheres can do.
>>
>>56816711
But are they effectively communicating how to play their game or the typical gameplay loop of a campaign in a concrete way? Not necessarily.

And it is an sad, because a lot of really interesting concepts are communicated poorly, so few will experience the enjoyment that the creators experienced.
>>
>>56817017
Aight, I’ll do that.

Thanks
>>
>>56817017
>How do you do that

More like "How do i ask my ST if i can do that?"
>>
>>56816999

Alright, so without Hidden Diablarist trait chosen the only way to keep it away is to utilize the masking ritual requiring the freely given blood of an innocent on a weekly basis, fuck.

Currently sitting on a staked Brujah Prince, and contemplating whether diablerizing is worth it or if I should just give him the final death and blame it on the Sabbat.
>>
>>56817017
>"How Do You Do That"

That supplement did the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.
>>
>>56817044

The supplement is available in the Old WOD Mega listed in the pastebin in the OP.

>>56817070

M20 is crap compared to Revised to anyone who knows the system and game, but to a newbie, it will help them get a better sense of the system if they intend on playing this edition.
>>
>>56817017
Check mage revised for sphere descriptions and examples. m20 is a bit of a mess in that regard.
>>
>>56817080
Just call a blood hunt. Or impersonate someone and call a blood hunt. Or dominate them into it. What gen are you even eating?
>>
>>56817105

The basic descriptions of the Spheres are fine.

Sadly, Brucato is an incompetent and unprofessional hack, so actually knowing how to apply the Spheres required an entire supplement that somehow managed to raise more issues than it solved.
>>
>>56817105
I heard 2nd was the best, is that true.

I can do utterly retarded mechanics, I started with 3.5e

Follow up question:
If prime is the power over quintessence, and can nullify paradox...
Can I give other mages paradox with it?
>>
>>56817080
>What is a blood bond.

Blood bond him. A prince in your back pocket is awesome.
>>
>>56817162
Dunno, I only have 1e, revised, and m20. 1e was a bit too fast and loose for most people. 2e??. Revised seemed solid. And m20 just makes me sad inside

BECAUSE I PAID 375 DOLLARS FOR A BOOK THAT DOESN'T LET ME PLAY THE GAME.
>>
>>56812536
Wouldn't it by process of elimination? If you see something not human you know they aren't human, but if you see nothing not human you can infer that they are.
>>
>>56817230
>BECAUSE I PAID 375 DOLLARS FOR A BOOK THAT DOESN'T LET ME PLAY THE GAME

I feel so bad for you
>>
>>56817230
>375 dollars
>>
>>56811461
does someones have OPs image without the text?
>>
>>56817163
>>56817140

Both smart moves, much smarter than what I was contemplating. Thanks lads.
>>
>>56816243
why wouldnt the tremere show up?
>>
>>56817542

The City is the only Camarilla territory for about 400 miles. It's surrounded by Sabbat cities in 3 different directions, one of them less than 40 km away. It also helps I'm the Chantry Regent.
>>
>>56817559
thats not an explanation for why he can eat someone and not have it show up in his aura.
>>
>>56817418

https://themichaelmacrae.deviantart.com/art/That-Was-the-Most-Fun-I-ve-Ever-Had-549000887

Look through their gallery. Michael MacRae is fucking amazing.
>>
>>56817685
Thank you very much anon. The more I see the pic the more cool details I discover
>>
>>56817685
A lot of those would make for really good OP images. Like even more than the ones of his that already are.
>>
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>>56815851
>London Beshilu were confirmed to have a society and religion.

Is this from a book?
>>
Who won the mage vs vampire argument? I didn't care to stick around.
>>
>>56818594
you could scroll up and read it, it hasn't gone anywhere

or at least post some fresh bait if you're trying to get it started again
>>
>>56818594
Nobody. I mean, we all knew the mage can kill the vampire. Magefags just sperged out when other magefags told them to be wary of getting caught out by celerity+dominate.
>>
>>56818594
I don't think the Magefags have ever lost a white-room discussion.
>>
>>56818708
Wait, white-room discussions are no preptime, right? The whole point of half the people arguing was not to treat the fight like that, rather to go in prepared.
>>
>>56811585
whats the sauce on this?
>>
>>56818728
Vampire's don't culturally prep for anything power wise. Mages always do. At least the ones who aren't dead.
>>
>the virgin mage
>the chad sorcerer
>>
>>56818728
>implying a mage needs prep to kill a vampire
>>
>>56818708
Quite the opposite. The mage actually loses in this case if you white-room it. Drop the Obrimos and the vampire into an empty room with no preparation and here's what happens:

>Mage: "I cast" -
Vampire: "Nope, I interrupt your action and dominate you."
>Mage: "Well... fuck, I guess."

But that's never how fights go in WoD. A Forces IIII mage can go into the fight invisible, with a kinetic shield up, and even an sound dampening field on, because let's be honest Paradox is super easy to mitigate. Situations like the one above usually happen with very arrogant mages, or mage players who know about Mage Supremacy but don't know how to do it because they're new to the game.
>>
>>56815851
where on the forums are the extra hosts?
>>
>>56818860
Oh my god you're retarded. Mages don't wave their arms over their heads and shout "I CAST"

No.

A vampire doesn't even know when a mage is about to cast anything.
This white-room scenario is like The Flash vs Professor X. Whoever strikes first wins.

This is assuming the mage doesn't just survive the assault with Mage Armor and turn the vampire inside out.
>>
>>56818848
Depends on the vampire. I've seen plenty of cases where an unprepared mage gets oneshotted by a vampire or werewolf, simply because the vamp/woof gets to act first and, without preparation, the mage is essentially just a normal mortal in regards to taking damage.

Generally this is the kind of thing that wakes mew mage players up and makes them realize that Mage is about being John Constantine, not Harry Potter.
>>
>>56816308
so Mjolnir could only be lifted by the worthy (in the MCU/comics at least), the character tries to be worthy but (in the players words) the Ghost Wolf character is actually worthy

however the fuck you calculate worthiness
>>
>>56818950
You're retarded one here.

Mechanically, Celerity works by the player saying "whatever you do, I do my thing first."
>>
>>56818950
>>56818968
The question I have is why is it a guns at noon situation?
Elder vampires generally get where they are by knowing how to pull strings and work connections. The idea that the mage would have to deal with JUST the vampire is fairly silly to me, why would the vampire even have to show up outside of having some kind of position that demands it deal with matters itself or being there to gloat and deal the final blow for pride's sake?
Why hasn't the vampire already made steps to identify who the mage is via mortal and semi mortal contacts and go on from there? Mages, via a cursory check, are known to be fairly dangerous depending on what they can do, why stick his neck out for some duel that need not happen?
>>
>>56819023
Nah, friendo. They need to know what they're interrupting in order to do any of that.

If they see the mage using a Yantra, then yes. Otherwise no. There's no tell-tale indicator that a mage is casting a spell.

Either the vampire guesses correctly or is shit out of luck.
>>
>>56819044
The scenario is that they were both dropped into a room. They both don't know what each other is capable of.
>>
>>56818950
I'm paraphrasing the players, you moron. The mage player says they're going to cast something, then the other player says nope, hold up, I'm activating one of muh blood powers to act before you.
>>
More vampfags that don't seem to understand how Celerity functions.

Cash bait.
>>
>>56819062
Not how it works. The vampire has to know its coming to act accordingly. You're meta-gaming.

The same applies for mages using Mage Armor. If they're back is turned they can't activate it.
>>
>>56819076
Its because they don't read the books. Mage requires you to pretty much read all of them to do it right.
>>
Vampires can read minds now...?
>>
>>56819053
God you're an idiot.

The white-room situation is the usual "lol, these two guys are dropped in a room and they have to kill each other" shit. Now, this never happens in WoD, really (though there are, I guess, cases where two character suddenly realize they have to fight, despite being unprepared... but they're not that common, because STs love long drawn out investigations and stuff), but that's the scenario.

Celerity doesn't represent the character seeing what another character is doing and stopping them. It represents them being so fast that, whatever they want to do, they get to do it first. The vampire activating celerity immediately and doing his thing is entirely mechanically correct here.
>>
>>56819044
Because it's a white room scenario that doesn't account for circumstances, logic, personal approaches, methodology, or any other kind of characterization and details you would like to mention.

It's literally a "let's throw stats and book passages at each other until one side gives up" argument. White rooms are insufferable, Magefags are insufferable, and even DaveB has condemned both of those things.
>>
>>56819061
That is not the scenario OP had mentioned in the slightest, that is what the thread decided to make it.
>>
>>56819093
Nah that's entirely how it works. Straight from the book:

>Immediately move to the head of the Initiative queue. This boost in Initiative lasts only one turn, after which all combatants return to acting in their rolled order. If multiple vampires attempt to jump ahead simultaneously they enter a Clash of Wills (p. 125), the winner acts first.
>>
>>56819151
Too bad for DaveB, since he's magefag enabler #1.
>>
>Mages don't give any overt signs of casting
Not really. It's possible, if you're just rolling Gnosis + Arcanum + Willpower, but using tools, mudras, or god forbid, High Speech, gives a pretty clear indicator to any observer with even the smallest inkling of what you are that you're about to do SOMETHING.
>>
Holy shit. Vampfags love wanking Celerity.
>>
>>56819197
Not really. Mage Supremacy has existed since Ascension. Mage Supremacy in this general caught on because of Ascension Archmages. Dave hasn't really done anything special to enable Magefags, and the posts people like to quote weren't made to make Mages the best. They just present it like that.
>>
>>56819247
Figures. Depending on edition it ranges from useful to straight up broken. And unlike most other Disciplines already matters at less than 5 dots.
>>
>>56819223
Dave has brought this up before. You can *assume* a Mage is casting a spell, otherwise you can't be sure.

Unless the mage is vulgur about it, such as what you've listed, a vampire won't be able to interrupt it. They can always guess. They're probably right.
>>
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>>56819247
Are you really so mad that a vampire would win in a very niche situation that rarely ever comes up, that you have to post this shitty bait?

Frankly a mage who is unprepared like this deserves to get rekt.
>>
>>56819247
The vampfags don't even know how it works. Vampires can't read minds. They can't interrupt a spell in mid thought.
>>
>>56819286
In what way? The Vampfags are wrong if they think they can interrupt a spell that has zero-to-no indicator of it being cast.

That's pretty much it.

If the Mage is using a Yantra then the Vampire is free to stop it.

They're not baiting. They're employing something called common sense.

By your (their?) logic, the Mage can use Mage Armor to Reflexively counter Celerity.

So I guess the Mage wins...? This is stupid.
>>
how to save /wod/:
>ban magefags
>ban vampfags
problem solved, just werewolves and changelings going on comfy adventures together
>>
>>56819281
It doesn't matter, see >>56819168

They can interrupt anyway. IIRC celerity has three effects: you can choose to interrupt EVERYONE by being sanic fast, moving you to the front of the initiative cue (which isn't you choosing something to interrupt, it's just you moving faster), you can choose to interrupt individual actions, or you can multiply your speed by your dots or something.
>>
>>56819168
>>56819331

So it's useless then. Because the Mage has Forces Mage Armor. Congratulations.
>>
>>56819331
They really can't. But let's say they CAN *read minds* and interrupt it anyway. It still won't matter because of the Reflexive Mage Armor.
>>
>>56819295
>>56819325
SEE >>56819168

Holy fuck, you fuckers are proving yourselves truly plebeian.
>>
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>the vampfag is getting buttblasted
>>
>>56816020
>Prime will make you invis to a vampire.
With Prime? Not really. Obrimos would use normal Forces Invisibility for that.

>>56816020
>>56816065
>twilight
Sorry, that's Spirit 4
Although crossing the Gauntlet and nuking vampire from other side would be possible.

>>56816190
Imo they would be more like, "you're nuisance, but since you're already here go to this Space adept, he'll teleport them to safety and you'll owe him big time".

>>56817252
Sleepwalkers are human too.
>>
>>56819371
Doesn't matter. Mage armor is reflexive. :^) It's practically a counter to celerity.

even with your asinine meta gaming you lose
>>
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>>56819344
>>56819360
>Forces Mage Armor
>against Dominate

Uh...
>>
>>56819399
>mage doesn't look the vampire in the eyes

Oh wow. That was SO hard. Majesty would be more efficient.
>>
>>56819325
>By your (their?) logic, the Mage can use Mage Armor to Reflexively counter Celerity.
Explain how does mage armor stop super fast dominating the mage.
>>
>>56819422
So now you're bringing in Dominate because Celerity didn't cut it...? Ok. Don't look them in the eyes?

Oh wait >>56819412 beat me to it.
>>
>>56819412
Isn't Majesty mainly the replacement for Presence? Presence doesn't require eye contact.
>>
Are all Vampire players this insecure? I've never ran Celerity as what they're suggesting.
>>
>>56819281
The book says you need to be aware of an attack to defend, and since this is on the tails of the rules for how Celerity works with Defense and Firearms, it means Celerity can't help you apply Defense against attacks you aren't aware of.

It does NOT say that you need to know what a character is doing to interrupt their action. Casting a spell is an Instant Action. Ergo, Celerity can interrupt it. That is mechanically sound. The only issue with this is that the door is open for the vampire player to metagame, but if the character has even the smallest excuse ("What's he doing with his fingers there? Another trick?") then there's no problem. The vampire player can interrupt the spell with an attack, or they can just move out of sensory range around the fucking corner, and can do this as many times in a Scene as they have dots in Celerity.

Page 130-131, Requiem 2e.
>>
>>56819381
>>56819247
>>56819116
>>56819076
>>56819453
>h-haha the vamps are butthurt! am i right guys? guys?
>>
>magefags are legitimately bootyblasted that a vampire can win in an highly singular, very rare situation that will almost never come up in a real game

Jesus, guys, take a fucking chill pill. It's common knowledge that an unprepared mage can be killed by shit that simply acts before they can respond. The point is that you learn not to be unprepared when you play Mage.
>>
>>56819122
>The white-room situation is the usual "lol, these two guys are dropped in a room and they have to kill each other" shit. Now, this never happens in WoD, really (though there are, I guess, cases where two character suddenly realize they have to fight, despite being unprepared... but they're not that common, because STs love long drawn out investigations and stuff), but that's the scenario.

Actually there is a werewolf gift that makes white rooms. Even fairs them up a bit if you try to fuck with it.

>One on One Rank 6 Ahroun Gift

>The World of Darkness is a complex place, filled with intrigue, misdirection and all manner of supernatural evasion. Ahroun, however, are simpler beings, and this Gift allows them to extend their direct methods where they might not otherwise reach. The Garou says a brief prayer to Luna and the other innumerable spirits of blood, terror and vengeance in the Garou pantheon. She is then transported instantly to a single foe of her choice, whom she may engage in one-to-one combat to the death under Luna’s own aegis. The foe cannot flee (though tactical withdrawal with the specific intent of continuing the fight this scene is acceptable), nor can she receive aid from outsiders. The invoker is bound by the same restrictions, of course.
>>
>Vampire uses Reflexive Celerity on Mage
>Mage survives via Reflexive Mage Armor
>Mage turns Vampire into lawn chair

?????
>>
>>56819492

>Luna herself teaches this Gift, and not through an avatar — the petitioner must journey to Luna’s court in the Aetherial Realm and convince the capricious goddess that her reasons for needing this power are just.

>System: This Gift cuts through all supernatural forms of warding, concealment, contingency spells and similar precautions without any roll. For the remainder of the scene, both affected parties can receive no aid from other sources, and can only use powers that are directly physical in nature. A vampire’s unearthly strength and speed or a faerie’s ability to strike at enemies with the spirit of holly would remain potent, but a member of either race would be stripped of his supernatural mind-clouding and unearthly presence. Likewise, a Namebreaker might throw lightning or increase his own strength, but not teleport away or turn incorporeal to avoid the Garou’s strikes utterly.

>This Gift involves the direct interference of the Celestine Luna in mortal affairs, and the Storyteller should remember that a thinking being is determining the Gift’s exact effects, not a defined supernatural spell. The Storyteller should make judgement calls on the Gift’s effects keeping it within its intended spirit of providing a fair, open a physical fight. A Garou asking to be transported to a vampire in torpor, for example, might find the Leech awake and ready to fight…

>The Garou must expend a point of permanent Gnosis to activate this Gift. Once the fight is done, normal rules of reality reassert themselves — which might be bad if the Garou has been sent to Malfeas or some other hellish domain.
>>
>>56819476
It's more the case that Celerity and Dominate isn't enough to kill the Mage in this situation.

Majesty is better and might even work.
>>
>>56819473
They can't. Sorry. This has been brought up before. They're shit out of luck if they don't know the Mage is casting a spell.

If you want to twist things for your own benefit, go ahead.
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>>56819440
You stupid faggot. The argument STARTED with the vampire being said to have Celerity and Dominate 5. Also, the mage cannot look away fast enough, as the vampire will be ahead of him in Initiative order. Also, you're complaining about the mechanics of Celerity being metagaming, but you're perfectly willing to have the mage metagame?

>>56819453
You've never run Celerity according to the rules, then. Being able to jump to the front of the Initiative order is the very first usage of Celerity listed under its entry.
>>
>>56819497
>Vampire uses Reflexive Celerity to Dominate Mage
>Mage turns himself into lawn chair
>>
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Yeah...
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>>56819533
SEE >>56819168
It doesn't matter, the vampire still acts first.
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>>56819539
Won't be enough.
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>>56819577
Sorry. It doesn't. You can meta game if that's your gig. But I'd never allow such bullshit at my table.
>>
>>56819533
Oh, it does say that they can't interrupt actions of which the character is unaware. So the door ISN'T open to metagame, but the vampire player can still act first and interrupt the action if they see the Mage doing something. Being aware of the action and knowing what it is exactly are two different things.
>>
>>56819578
>dominate won't be enough
Why not, anon?
>>56819594
>following the game mechanics as written is metagaming
If this is an actual white room scenario, then the pcs have rolled initiative to act.
If you were talking about a real encounter in an actual game, with the variances involved, then you'd have a point.
>>
>>56819594
>i wouldnt allow the rules at my table
>>
>>56819562
I don't really see how that applies here. Maybe do everyone a favor and don't be one of the guys who make Dave regret interacting with the community and answering questions.
>>
>>56819562
This is fucking bullshit. It's like he wants mages to win.
>>
>>56819594
>using an ability as it is described
>metagaming

This isn't even the vampire reacting. It's the vampire acting first, very fast. God you're dumb. And desperate.
>>
>>56819646
>dev says you can't tell when a mage is casting a spell
>doesn't apply

ok
>>
>>56819655
How does the vampire act before something he knows nothing about?
>>
>>56819672
>a dev says you can't where there is a host of physical signs that can reveal it unless you are using no tools or no speech, which the vast majority of magefags rely on to buttress their claims of superiority
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You know what's really funny here?

If the vampire is an elder as originally described, he almost certainly has a way higher Initiative score than the mage anyway. He wouldn't even NEED celerity to win in this situation, it'd just guarantee it on the off chance that this mage has a higher Init. He'd just go first and dominate him without it.
>>
>>56819562
Huh. I guess I was wrong. I thought Celerity could prevent even spontaneous magic.
>>
>>56819684
Does not celerity allow you to interrupt actions before they are completed, but after they begin?
>>
>>56819684
...He doesn't? He just pushes himself to the front of the Initiative cue and acts first. He's not reacting to anything. He's just doing his thing really fast.
>>
>>56819646
He's specifically talking about trying to counter spells with methods that interfere with the casting process, and how they don't work because by the time you could be aware of the spell, it's too late. It's cast. It only takes an Instant Action to cast a spell, so by the time your turn comes around, you are indeed shit out of luck. But Celerity, which allows you to go first and interrupt actions that you're aware of (and seeing somebody doing something, like a mudras or pointing a wand is being aware) so it's not what he was talking about. He says you can SUSPECT a Mage is casting a spell, but you can't KNOW for sure like they can with Mage Sight and then counter the casting.

It's a classic case of Magefags twisting Dave's input. It's why he hates them.
>>
>>56819727
So you're assuming this is a gun show? The mage and vampire don't know who's going to attack first.
>>
>>56819684
He just moves first, you fucking idiot. Initiative? One of the principal combat mechanics? Ever heard of it? Maybe you've read about it in at least ONE of the books? Celerity allows vampires to jump to the head of the Initiative queue. It's not interrupting an action, it's going before they even start their action.
>>
>>56819725
It does.

But it still doesn't matter, as none of this bullshit need to be relevant. The vampire doesn't need to react. He can just say he's using celerity to go fast, put himself at the front of initiative order, and then do his action before the mage can do anything at all.
>>
This white-room scenario consists of a Mage and a Vampire. They both don't know what each of capable of.
Whoever attacks first wins.

If they're both asked to kill each other on a count of three, then the vampire attacks first.
Otherwise the Mage is just going to one-shot him.

The specifics aren't given. Nor was the original question even about this.
You morons don't even know what you're arguing anymore.
>>
>>56819759
The actual mechanics disagree with you in a white room fight.
If the vampire didn't roll higher in the initiative, then the vampire has every right to pop celerity to alpha strike.
Who says you need to see your enemy do something to know he is a threat and striking first and last wins the battle?
The argument here is fairly ridiculous.
>>56819792 is actually fairly correct. One side is arguing in terms of a street fight scenario, the other a white room battle.
Acknowledging this, I step out of this silly argument, and the rest of you should do the same.
>>
>>56819759
...That's what this is, anon. The whole white-room scenario is that two people are dropped into a room to fight, or I guess in a more realistic setting they realize they need to kill one another but are unprepared. Obviously, the vampire would do what it can to act first.

My entire point when this started was, in this instance, the vampire would win the 'white-room' discussion... but white-rooms rarely happen. In reality, the mage would come in with twenty spells active and the vampire, being a fucking elder, probably wouldn't even be there anymore because why would he be, what's the gain in fighting a random mage?
>>
>move yourself to the top of the initiative order with bullshit speed powers
heh, nothing personnel kid
>>
>>56819792
I thought they were both told to attack each other? They both KNOW they're going to fight to the death.
>>
>>56819826
No. There is no initiative. They don't know they're in a death match.

If the Vampire doesn't know the Mage is casting a spell, he's finished.
If the Mage doesn't know the Vampire is going to pop Celerity, he's finished.

And that's a big fuckin' if. Mage Armor is Reflexive. The Mage only needs to survive a single attack to end the fight.
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Guys
Guys please
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>>56819857
>Mage Armor is Reflexive

No it's not. Mages don't get to act first.
>>
I repeat. Vampires don't read minds. They don't know when a spell is coming.

You're all fucking dumbasses.
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>>56819882
You can't interrupt reflexive actions shit burger.
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>>56819864
Just set it so that post stubs are hidden.
>>
>>56819826
>>56819857
>>56819882
>>56819908
>>56819915
see
>>56819813
>>56819792
You are arguing 2 different situations entirely like idiots.
>>
>>56819915
Exactly. So Mage armor is fucking wastr against Celerity.
>>
>>56819857
The premise of a white-room discussion is always that both are in the room to fight, they know what they're doing. Also, when this argument started, the premise also included the vampire having Dominate, which doesn't care about Forces-derived mage armour.

This is one of the rare instances where the vampire wins. I don't understand why people are upset - the only way this happens in an actual game is if the mage is really inexperienced or ridiculously arrogant. I've seen it happen in games, but it's almost always new mage players or players that are so hopped up on their power that they forget to prepare anything.
>>
>vamps go bleh
>werewolves go aroo
>ghosts go boo
>changelings go ____
>>
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This is so fucking stupid. Magefag, vampfag, whoever the fuck. You're all fucking autistic.
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>>56819943
based ice water was right
bagelfags BTFO
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>>56819932
Uhm no. The vamp jumps initiative, The armor activates, then the vamps turn resolves. Then the mage gets to act (maybe), seems unlikely that as presented, the non weapon wielding vamp would actually 1 shot anything.
>>
>>56819933
>his is one of the rare instances where the vampire wins.
This depends on which side of the argument you're going to take.

If they both know they're fighting to the death, then the vampire has a good chance of winning assuming he can kill the mage in one go.

If they both don't know anything, Saw style, then the Mage is almost guaranteed the winner.
>>
>>56819967
Just realized for the first time that that was a donut. I thought the hole was just a really big chin.
>>
>>56819973
The Mage has Forces Armor. He/she will probably survive and kill the Vampire in the next turn.

People aren't considering this.
>>
>>56819908
>I repeat. Vampires don't read minds.

Well, some of them do.

Either way, it doesn't matter, celerity doesn't have to be reactive.

>>56819939
YOU'RE ALWAYS AFTER ME LUCKY CHARMS.
>>
>>56819997
You just realize now that Vampire players ignore Mage mechanics for their own benefit.
>>
>>56819922
I was more pointing out that like 70% of the thread is taken up by this at this point, but thank you for the advice all the same.
>>
>>56819997
So use dominate.
You aren't considering that the vampire has more than one avenue to take.
>>
I feel like you guys are arguing two entirely separate things without even realizing it.
>>
>>56819330
Clearly the only reasonable choice.
>>
>>56819973
>>56819997
Th vampire has Dominate 5 in this, so the mage armor is irrelevant.

Does nobody here remember how the argument started? The vamp jumps to the front of init, dominates, and the mage is now under his control.
>>
>>56820033
Does the Vampire even know to use Dominate? From her perspective the Mage is just a fleshy human.

There's also the fact that it requires eye contact. And the Mage probably already realizes its a Vampire from using Mage Sight.

Information is key and it's not looking good for the Vampire.
>>
>>56820035
No, they do, as has been pointed out repeatedly, they are just shitposting at this point.
>>
>>56819967
>water fags are THIS deluded
can you drink ice? no. so it's not water and thus not liquid
>>
>>56820021
Oh and also I like to pick a random post in the middle and unhide it. Sometimes legitimate discussions can branch off of the shitposting and that all gets caught up in the recursive hiding
>>
>>56820055
Aren't all mages autistic? How would the vampire even make eye contact
>>
>>56820049
The Mage could just as easily incinerate the Vampire before that happens.
>>
>>56820018
>magefags pretending celerity doesn't work as it does
>magefags forgetting that the vampire here has dominate
>but nope, vampirefags are the ones ignoring shit

Being this desperate for your splat to win a silly battle that rarely happens in an actual game is kinda sad, dude. In fact, hell, despite every fact being against you, I'll GIVE this to you. You can have it. You clearly need it.
>>
>this is stil continuing
Dominate and Celerity is useless in this white room battle.
If the Kindred had Majesty then maybe the Mage would die.
>>
Oh and also reminder: Blue book mortals and modified hunter is objectively the best line in the entire game.
>>
>>56820057
that's LITERALLY the point
water can be solid you fucking donut retard
>>
>>56820094
The irony here is that you, and him, don't actually know the specifics of the fight. You're as retarded as he is.

You both are forgetting that the Mage also has Spirit.
>>
It boils down if the ST running considers the intent of casting the spell worthy of rolling iniciative

If yes, the vampire jump to the start of iniciative and dominate the mage, he can't defend with mage armor because is not a physical action.
If not, the mage cast the spell and the vampire is dead.

And that only considering the white room scenario. Obrimos player has all the right to preparing spells to burn the vamp.
>>
>>56820075
>fight starts
>initiative is calculated
>vampire says "I don't care about the result, I use celerity and go first"
>vampire dominates mage
>vampire wins

The mage doesn't get to do shit before anything here.
>>
How the fuck did this thread work itself out of a bait, then take the exact same bait?
>>
>>56820134
There is no 'fight starts'

Are you trying to twist this scenario for your own gain? The Mage has Forces 4, Prime 3 and Spirit 3. The Mage more than likely prepared a Kinetic Shield beforehand. The Vampire probably doesn't even know the fight's coming.
>>
>>56820094
>>56820055
>>56820049
>>56820055
I just read dominate 1, the only one you can actually use. It doesn't even appear to actually cost the target their action as written and requires an additional turn (or hours) to actually issue commands.
>>
>>56820129
The vampfags here think they can read minds. So apparently a thought of ill intent is enough to start initiative.
>>
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>>56820070
Best post in this entire thread.
>>
>>56820075
>>56820155
>selectively forget things that have been repeatedly stressed multiple times when it benefits you
imagine being this assblasted because your favorite splat could potentially lose in an impossibly niche scenario
>>
>>56820137
The Vampire fanbase has long hated and spited the Mage community.

This scenario is just further enforcing that stereotype.
>>
>>56820070
Based
>>
>>56820199
Did you even read the bait comment that started it all? There were no specifics given.

>being this assblasted to make up a story surrounding bait
>>
>>56820224
>argument becomes about white room brawls
>backtrack when you realize you can't win a white room brawl
also don't copy my jokes, come up with your own
>>
>>56820155
...Holy shit. The entire point of a white-room discussion is that no preparation has happened.

Which is why I've been saying it's dumb to care about it, it almost never happens.
>>
The reality is that Celerity isn't enough to prevent a Mage from thinking up "Thunderbolt". Yes. The Vampire loses. It loses hard.

Congratulations on prolonging such a simple fucking question which was more than likely bait.
>>
>>56820247
But the Mage won? Celerity won't get past Mage Armor and Dominate likely won't do much if the Mage knows what she's fighting.
>>
>>56820159
This is correct. But an elder's dice pool will generally mean an exceptional success, which means he gets to issue the order immediately.
>>
>>56820265
>the situation, if set up to the mage's advantage, is easily won by the mage
Water is ice is steam, but is actually H2O.
>>
>>56820283
The entire discussion has been under the assumption that neither the vampire nor the mage know what they're fighting, only that they are fighting.

Which is why it's silly.
>>
>>56820313
If they both don't who what they're fighting then the Mage wins after she realizes what she's hanging out with. That or they work out a way to escape the "white room"
>>
in my games mages and vampires are friends and hang out together and don't fight
>>
I didn't realize it was this hard to take down a Mage.

If anything this is a "How do we kill a wizard" discussion.
>>
>>56819943
who was in the right here
>>
1. Most likely
>Mage and Vampire sitting in a room(white)
>Moments go by
>Mage uses Mage Sight
>Figures it's a creature of the night
>She immediately kills it by over-Reaching
>"Worth it"

2. Unlikely
>Mage and Vampire sitting in a room(white)
>They both, for some reason, want to kill each other
>Vampire acts first via Celerity
>Thinks she's just a normal human and goes for the kill
>Doesn't get through Mage Armor
>The Mage promptly over-Reaches and kills the Vampire
>"worth it"

3. Highly unlikely
>Mage and Vampire sitting in a room(white)
>Vampire, somehow, knows she's a mage
>Immediately uses Celerity to act first
>Dominates Mage
>Mage Armor does nothing
>Enslaved Mage
>>
>>56820321
Well yeah realistically if you drop two people into a featureless white room with instructions to fight they'll generally not fight immediately. The whole idea of a white-room is that they both go for the fight immediately; it's a test of straight up ability in a spontaneous situation.

And, again, this is why it's silly to care about it. Yeah, the vampire wins in this one instance. So what? If a mage was that unprepared in-game he deserves it entirely, it will virtually never happen.
>>
>>56820349
Believe it or not your average Mage actually ISN'T an autistic, omnipotent and omniscient god, so while it's definitely hard to take down one that's experienced and powerful, they can be killed.
>>
>>56820437
That's assuming the Mage has Death, and would recognize the vampire's predatory aura for what it is.
>>
>>56820437
>the mage wins this white-room test when I make it not a white-room test

Yes, you're very clever, anon.
>>
>>56820443
>Yeah, the vampire wins in this one instance

I don't know. I'm seeing more of the opposite here. It only takes one hit to kill a vampire.
>>
>>56820491
Hey, I'm just following through on logic. The vampire loses this, mostly.

The 'even more likely' scenario is them teaming up to escape.

>>56820490
Eh, don't need Death to know it's a dangerous monster.
>>
It's getting to the point that I'm just going to filter the words "Mage" and "Vampire".
>>
This is good work. Didn't realize Mage mechanics triggered you guys so much.

Do you naturally hate each other to do this to yourselves?
>>
My imput: The only way the Vampire is winning this is if it uses Dominate. Celerity will be countered.

Can the theoretical Obrimos defend against Dominate?
>>
>>56820580
>Can the theoretical Obrimos defend against Dominate?

Maybe with Prime, Shielding against lies and deception. But that would require prep beforehand, or stalling the vampire.
>>
I fail to see where "White Room" was originally put forth by the original poster?

>>56820491
>I only want the fight to go the way I want it to

Grow up, maybe?
>>
>>56820437
Do you know what a white-room scenario is?

It's a term coined, I think, by comicbook fans when talking about their superfaggots fighting one another. The idea is that you don't take into account stuff like personality, preptime etc; the combatants are in the room and they both use their full means to kill one another. It's immediately a combat situation with no ambiguity.

For RPGs, it's generally just a fight as a mechanical thought experiment, rather than a roleplaying one. A roleplaying thought experiment would be

>Mage: "What the fuck, why am I suddenly in this white room? Shit who are you?"
Vampire: "Fuck me I dunno, but I bet Carthians did this."
>Mage: "Shit man, I don't know what that is, but I can see that you're a supernatural something so I bet we can use our powers to escape this situation."
Vampire: "Yeah my nignog, let's blow this joint."
>Mage: "Nignog? Pfft, what. Also why do we have shades and trenchcoats now?"
Vampire: "I'm trying to be current, lingo is hard when you're five hundred years old. Also, I shades and trenchcoats are a vampire discipline, standard shit."
>Mage: "Coolio, let's rage."

Elsewhere, the Cheiron guy watching a live feed of this starts sweating profusely.
>>
>>56820338
You're games sound pretty fun actually.
Reminds me of the dumb dating sim idea I had once
>>
>>56820632
>It's a term coined, I think, by comicbook fans when talking about their superfaggots fighting one another.
Which is unfortunately all these threads have devolved into.
>>
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>this thread
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>>56820580
>Can the theoretical Obrimos defend against Dominate?
Since Dominate needs to issue commands to works, canceling sound in the room should work.
>>
>>56820675
haha, epic XD
>>
>>56820546
Just use 4chanx instead.
>>
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>muh celerity
>muh dominate
>muh initiative
>>
you know you never see werewolves start shit
>>
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>>56820632
>Also why do we have shades and trenchcoats now?
>>
>>56820580
If he can cast a spell before the guy does dominate, to stop sound or whatever, sure. But that's why celerity was the source of such a big argument before - because lets the vampire drop dominate first.
>>
>>56820640
You know what would be a great show? A friends/seinfeld style sitcom with all the major splats.
A vampire, werewolf, changeling, mage, wraith and a normal human all share two apartments right in front of each other
>>
>>56820736
>>
>>56820732
The mage could always cast the spell beforehand. The vampire won't know anything.

But then why not just kill it before it even uses Celerity?
>>
>>56820756
>being THIS assblasted
holy shit hahahahahahahaha
>>
>>56820799
Are you new? This image has been around since June. It's perfectly fitting, if I do say so myself.
>>
>>56820049
The mage is starting in twilight isnt he?

Rip dominate....
>>
>celerity can let you dominate the mage easily
>but why are they fighting? they wouldnt know. mage wins!
>its a white room fight
>oh? then mages attacks first! mage wins!
>vamp attacks first with celerity
>but why are they fighting? they wouldnt know. mage wins!
magefags are either sore losers or have the attention span of a goldfish
>>
>>56820741
Fucking hell the song is stuck in my head now. It took a good portion of the noughties to get it out and now you've put it back in.
>>
>>56820837
>still taking the bait
>>
>>56820837
Awww, you poor baby. You don't like the situation, I know. If only the Vampire had Majesty instead.
>>
>>56820787
>>56820829
Read >>56820632
This whole thing is so retarded.
>>
Does half of this place consist of Magefags and the other half Vampfags?
>>
>>56820921
I'd say magefags are the largest group, folowed by vamps, followed by changelings, followed by wolves
>>
Ok but who won
>>
>>56820986
The mage did. It wasnt a white room question. Magefag asked how he'd deal with a vampire with celerity 5 and dominate 5.

Numerous examples of how the vampire dies later...vampfags are sperging..
>>
>>56820986
werewolves
>>
>>56820986
Let's tally it, shall we?

>Ways for the Vampire to kill the Mage
One and a half
>Ways for the Mage to kill the Vampire
At least a dozen
>>
>>56820974
Man, take a look further up in the thread.

Most of the people actually talking about their games were werewolf or vampirefags. Magefags only started posting for powerlevel fighting. Magefags aren't the majority, they're just the majority of people that want to argue about powerlevels.
>>
>>56820986
No one. The general is dead, over two thirds of the posts in this thread were nothing but autistic sperging. It's time to stop making threads
>>
>>56820986
The audience
>>
Does dominate let you force people to do suicidal shit?

Since any use of dominate in combat is virtually suicidal for the victim?
>>
>>56821057
There's a lot of magefags that don't care about powershittery. They're a silent majority though
>>
>>56820986
The irony is that nobody won.

The original question was how to deal with a certain vampire as a certain mage. People told the guy what things to be careful about, then magefags had a huge fit saying that those things shouldn't a problem if you prepare... which is exactly what the guys they were screaming at were telling people to do.

Then later some guy said the mage always wins when we white-room stuff. Someone else responded that we weren't white-rooming, and this is one of those rare cases where the vampire will often win in a white-room scenario, but white-room scenarios rarely happen. This, again, caused magefags to go insane and start arguing about that, which became two groups of people arguing different topics because the magefags didn't actually understand the subject.

Nobody won. There wasn't even any proper arguing. People argued past one another.
>>
>>56820470
Your average mage probably is an autist, tho
>>
>>56821144
The *real* irony is that the original post wasn't about white-room shenanigans.

The actual spergfest started when Vampire players started needlessly wanking Celerity without actually knowing how it functions.
>>
>>56821144
Really? The only way the Vampire would have won is if it managed to get off a good Dominate.
>>
>>56821144
It's always funny seeing a Vampfag trying to act mature.
No. This entire scenario was rigged from the start.

Theoretical white-room ended in the favour of the Mage, not the Vampire, plainly and adamantaly so.
Had it been Majesty instead of Dominate or Celerity, things would have been in the favour of the Vampire instead.
>>
>aroooo
>>
>>56821183
>>56821216
>>56821268
>magefags just cannot let it go

Dear lord.

Just stand outside for a while and breathe or something. It doesn't matter than a vampire can win in an incredibly niche situation. It doesn't matter. This thread is dead anyway.
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>>56811585
fuck your sister, seriously
>>
>>56821144
>Then later some guy said the mage always wins when we white-room stuff.

Nobody said this. They gave the Vampfags reasons why the Mage wins this and they flipped the fuck out. They even gave you examples of how the Vampire could win.
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>>56821366
see
>>56818708
>>
>>56821352
>It doesn't matter than a vampire can win in an incredibly niche situation.

And you say they can't let it go? How subtle, Anon. You aren't as smart as you think you are.
>>
>>56819385
What is supernal veil then mongo




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