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Buoyant Armigers Edition

>Tabletop/P&P RPGs
[UESRPG - P&P RPG] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pTgTN2aJUoY95JtquowagfUJLL7tCQYhzJKcCAcbvio/edit?usp=sharing
[Scrollhammer - Tabletop Wargame] http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scrollhammer_2nd_Edition
Discussion in #Scrollhammer (irc.thisisnotatrueending.com (port 6667))
[TES 5E Conversion] https://uestrpg.wixsite.com/home

>Lore Resources
[The Imperial Library] http://www.imperial-library.info/
[/r/teslore] http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/
[UESP/Lore] http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page
[Pocket Guide to the Lore] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AtsWXZKVqB4Q825_SwINY6z4_9NaGknXgeOknOCDuCU/edit
[Elder Lore Podcast] http://www.elderlore.wordpress.com/
[How to Become a Lore Buff] http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/

>General Rules
This is NOT /tesg/ minus waifus, so behave properly.
Keep the squabbling to a minimum.
No waifus, except for Fyr's.
Previous Kalpa: >>57288124
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>>57387963
You're watching me, scum???
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I was thinking about some of the less developed Daedra, and how they could be given a bit more content, now what follows is mostly headcanon and shit I completely made up with very little basis in the lore, but hear me out. Namira - now all we know about her is that she is a patron of all things disgusting: cannibalism, leprosy, breaking all sorts of taboos and such, her followers in Skyrim go out of their way to gross everyone out. But thats a bit too simplistic isn't it? What if Namira is about degradation and debasement? So it's not about breaking taboos to make people think you are gross or repulsive - but because breaking these taboos makes you degenerate in the most literal way? Her followers are like maggots wallowing in filth and death and what if her goal is their degradation into maggots and worms? Her realm is called Scuttling Void - scuttling like a centipedes and insects right? So I think Namira is a prime candidate for being the "eldritch abomination" kinda daedric prince - who is beyond the comprehension of her followers and enemies alike, in case of her followers possibly because anyone close enough to her has degraded to being barely a man/mer. Her monsters though should be more like bugs and maggots then octopi and tentacles

I apologise for a wall of autism and headcanon, but I was bored and am trying to make up a story focused around Namira and forsworn, so I was wondering what your thoughts are about the prince and my headcanon

>>57387939
that image looks really good, where is it from?
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>>57388160
I very much like what you thought up for Namira. Namira is fanatically opposed to the existence of the Mundus itself, and all things and beings within it. As such, she is devoted to it's corruption, to twisting it's nature into something opposite of it's original purpose. She does not wish to destroy Mundus; she wishes to make it the opposite of it's original design.
Hermaeus Mora is already the 'Eldritch Abomination' Daedra. He's pretty much just Cthulu. And he's already taken the octopi and tentacles aesthetic, so I think the bug/maggot/centipede idea is great. Perhaps her devotees eventually fall so far they become disgusting, twisted half-bug half-man monsters, prowling the night for innocent victims to violate and corrupt?

Artist that made the 3D model is Tiziano Bucci.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/P2bZ
Artist that did the original concept art it was based off of is Oskar Jakubisiak/Swietopelk/Dragomir.
https://swietopelk.deviantart.com/
They both were made for Skywind. I think the glass armor is finished fully now, actually.
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>>57388587
>chim.jpg
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>>57388273
>it's corruption, to twisting it's nature into something opposite of it's original purpose. She does not wish to destroy Mundus; she wishes to make it the opposite of it's original design.
this is along the lines of what I had in mind. Even in the Beggar Prince, when she finally agrees to help him, she does it only after he loses his voice from all the begging, and her "gifts" are all things that make it easier for him to demean/degenerate himself - she makes it so that he must have at least one disease at any time but can affect the way diseases work on him, she makes him pitiable and gross. So, I like to imagine her as fully devoted to degenerating everything around her, I like to imagine that its this love for degeneracy that makes Markath her city - its filled with corruption and evil, and her followers also fill it with filth.

Which is why the story I am making up revolves around Namira and a group of Forsworn, since the forsworn are already a devolved group of the reachemen, so when a further degenerate group of forsworn reach out to her for help she notices them and decides to use them for amusement.
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>>57388640
thats it
chim is just having access to the console and creation kit/construction set
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>>57389047
Tell me more about this story.
The Reachmen, I imagine, have a very diverse and varied view of the various Daedra. Many tribes would have a similar attitude to the Dunmer, that is, that some Daedra are bad, some are good, some are neither. Some tribes may be truly, truly degenerate, corrupted monsters to the core. Such tribes are likely in the minority, and outcasts in the eyes of the majority. Those would be those that would worship and serve Namira. Among most Reachmen, relatively benign Daedra such as Azura, Hircine, Malacath and others are the most popular. This majority have a culture not quite so entirely different from the Nords; they have strongly held concepts of honor, tradition, duty and piety. They have strong hierarchical systems, but ones sufficiently decentralized and free. The minority worshipers of the Bad Daedra, on the other hand, are governed by tyrant witch-queens and warlords in service to a Daedric Prince.
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Everyone talks about tribal Reachmen but what of the urban Reachmen of Markarth Side, Snowhawk, Karthwasten, Jehanna and Evermore?
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>>57389307
I was under the impression they were just tribals who were either forced to live in cities, or chose to for economic reasons.
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>>57389333
It wasn't just Direnni that inhabited those cities and they didn't fall to ruin after they left, either.
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>>57390403
Imagine how much wealth there must be in the dreugh underwater megacity if this random alcoholic mudcrab on a random island was so wealthy. Is the Empire even trying?
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>>57388160
>>57389047
Now if this was on nature of Namira, the next bit is on her realm. Since I am assuming her degradation/debasement motives are somewhat hidden, her world shouldn't make them immediately apparent as well, so its not a ball of writhing maggots or anything like that. Its called Void, so at least one part - lets call it Outskirts is cosmic-looking, so think dark granite, marble, stone structures and monoliths, braziers that seem to emit not light but darkness, but this darkness is solid, its what provides the very floor you would walk upon - the braziers also very slowly move relative to one another, as if the whole world is on the back of a giant moving centipede or a worm, you know how they wiggle when moving? - now mind you I am not saying that it is a literal giant centipede, I am only saying that the world is scuttling. This region would be barely inhabited, you might see eyes watching you from the distance, or hear distant quiet prittle-prattle of steps, but generally you wont find much trouble here. The sentient inhabitants are those whose degeneracy was of a more lazy kind, they weren't actively degenerate - so for example a beggar who never attempted or achieved anything, only wallowed in pity and filth might be stuck here, still begging in death as he did in life, but he isn't interested in gold anymore, but might offer advice, a joke, or just laugh at you for something more gross, like a bite of your flesh, or any flesh really, as long as it is that of a mer/man, though I suppose a daedric heart could be seen as a particular delicacy.

Another part of the realm of Namira could be vaguely shaped like a decaying corpse of a human, it would not be all fleshy mind you, if you levitated high enough and looked down it would mostly be cold and dark granite, but the spikes on the edges resemble the ribcage, and many of the other elements are also there.

cntd
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>>57390939
So would enter this area through long tunnels meant to basically represent intestines, and again at first its just darkness and rock, but as you move further through the tunnel the more disgusting and the more alive it becomes, somewhere half-way through the walls are so alive they might bleed if you stabbed them, this place is filled with monsters that resemble maggots and various small carrion eaters, its a place of disease and all kind of infections, it where you might run into a man/mer who is inflicted with some advanced leprosy, or is just gangrenous and decaying - mindless monster whose purpose is more to repulse and disgust you then to put up much of resistance it fact this whole region is designed to force debasement and disgust on anyone moving through it, no healing magic works here, but if you can stomach to eat them countless dead bodies lie around infused with all kinds of wicked magic. After you leave "the guts" you enter a wide and open plaza, there is a giant hole in the middle, if you look down that hall you see a floating island with a large structure down bellow - a structure that represents the heart, out of it flows viscous liquid, but its not really blood, the slaves of Molag Bal are not welcome here and if they were to attempt drinking it they would be left feeling even stronger hunger - though of course any vampire would immediately sense the fact that its not blood and find the liquid particularly disgusting. However anyone willing to bathe in that void would find that their wounds are all gone, its not just their wounds though, they lose a tiny bit of themselves in it, coming out corrupted and degraded, but its hard to notice at first as its meant to be insidious.

cnt
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>>57388160
Buddy, read words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, what you said is not really headcanon. I mean there is a reason she is called the Lady Decay.
Think of Namira as the malignant hungry unknown that draws things back to Nothing. The terrible disgusting process that leads all things to there end, and the unbelievable fear of what you will find there. She is the reason the world, in the eyes of the Elves, is a failure, the inevitability of death.
Think of the fear you feel while alone in the dark. That fear we all feel, the fear of what could be in there, how the dark has swallowed all things around you, fear of what you do not and cannot know and how it could be your end.
Your mind plays tricks on you, is there something there, is there something hiding out there in the dark waiting to strike. That fear you feel is the shape of Namira, that scuttling hungry void that reminds you where all things go, and always threatening to devour you.
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>>57391111
The plaza is filled with more hard chitin kinda insects, so no fleshy maggots, we are thinking centipedes, and whatever those bugs the falmer love so much. These are less disgusting then the maggots from the guts, but are far more dangerous, since they are actually meant to maim/kill and not just disgust whomever they run into. The sentient inhabitants of the plaza are cannibalistic and constantly fighting one another only to be on a whim restored by Namira, they can barely be called sentient though as they have given into the move savage degradation, many use no weapons at all, either as a choice or simply because they are too animalistic, and prefer to rip at their target with bare hands.

Now this isn't meant to be some 1-to-1 replica of a corpse, so no kidneys, no liver, no genitals, I thought about having a strange geyser filled area around where you would expect the lungs, the geysers would expel toxic fumes which mutate anyone who breathes them for too long, but I am not certain. The Skull whoever must be there and would have a particularly strong monster in it, just like in the heart, the heart would have some vaguely dragon like monster, but no wings and no thuum, since the creature is also degenerated and is more of a mockery of a dragon, then a real dov. The other inhabitants of the heart are those who pursue repulsive sensual stimulii, so "artists" who make gross painting/sculptures, or a "chef" who devotes his efforts to making the tastiest steak out of his fellow man to offer to the worm of the heart. And again, the heart is a good distance away from the rest of the "body" and even reaching this area is a challenge to anyone who is not a masterful mage.
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>>57392980
wrong thread desu
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Aside from Skyrim, which regions did the dragons inhabit during the Merethic era? I'm going to start DMing a UESRPG campaign with 4-5 players in about a month and a half, but I still don't know which direction I want to go (except playing during the third era, around Morrowind).

I've tried asking my players for input, but they haven't given me much to work with: we've settled on an exploration heavy campaign, one player wants to play an Alter Mysticist that studies souls and Aetherius, and one wants to play a Thu'um adept that's traveling Tamriel to find traces of draconic civilization outside of Skyrim, and then nothing.

Any ideas? I'm kind of drawing a blank: the only thing that came to my mind was them running into a Daedric cult because the players that know something about the lore like that part of the setting, but I'm completely stumped on ideas.
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>>57394786
Well, we know they were in Atmora as they headed the Nord Totemic Religion there. It's thought they moved there from Akavir, hinted at being chased off.
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>>57394786
>>57395017
Solstheim too
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>>57394786
Dragons likely had some, albeit incredibly limited presence, all across Tamriel.
We know that there was at least one in Hammerfell who devastated the Dwarves of Fang Lair. And Nafaalilargus who ended up taking residence on Stros M'kai and likely prior to that, with King Casimir of Wayrest. If the legend of Lysirius is to be taken as truth then High Rock indeed have dragons. There is also Skakmat to consider, but he is also described as a familiar.
Morrowind was said to once have had Dragons in the long distant past but they were either drawn out by the cliffracers or "sky-lamps."
Cyrodiil was apparently saturated with Dragons (pic) many of whom were used in the employ of Tiber Septim, known as Dragoons.
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>>57387939
>Buoyant Armigers Edition
I've been waiting for this edition for years!
Tell me about these low-density Vivecians, /tg/.
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>>57396465
>Tell me about these low-density Vivecians, /tg/.
discount Indoril Ordinators
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>>57396465
They're all high-level, light-armor wearing spellsword bards who are gay for Vivec and perform duties for him.
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>>57395017
>>57395334
>>57396256
Nice, thanks! I knew that they came from Atmora and Akavir, and that there were some in Hammerfell, but I didn't know about those from Morrowind and Cyrodill. I think I can definitely use the latter, too: if there were so many dragons in Cyrodill, at least in the past, I can make them find some ancient records in there about dragons and take things from there. One of the other players mentioned that Ayled looked interesting to them, so that's a plus.
>>
Finally did the Clockwork City quests in ESO. I was glad they made Fyr pretty likeable and not too much of an ass, though I like Sotha Sil less now.
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>>57398432
*In some newly excavated Ayled ruins, not in there, bah.
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>>57398443
>>>/vg/
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>>57398459
Aw.
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>>57398443
>>57398472
Just talk about it in lore terms/personality.
Why do you like Sotha Sil less?
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>>57398508
I dunno. I know he's basically a god and all that, but it feels like they're making him too important, if that makes sense. All the stuff regarding the significance of the city itself, and apparently he might've been the creator of black soul gems as well. Along with other stuff, mainly regarding MK, it just feels like the Tribunal have too much significance placed on them. Though I suppose personal biases might also be influencing it.
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>>57398588
>and apparently he might've been the creator of black soul gems as well.
Elaborate on this for me please. I thought Mannimarco created the black soul gems?
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>>57398916
It was a loading screen while in the Clockwork City. It talked about how it turns out Sotha Sil probably reversed engineered Soul Gems to invent them.
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>>57398432
>I can make them find some ancient records in there about dragons
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/water-getting-girl-and-inverse-tiger
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>>57389291
Its also suggested that some worship Dibella (or at least an aspect of her) as they were able to find the new Sybil of Dibella and seemed to have intentions to use her, this Forsworn group is also notably made up entirely of women (with the exception of a single male briarheart member) similar to other Dibella cults.
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>>57400432
I mean there's also the possibility they were just desecrating her shrine and planned to butcher the child.
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>>57398443
I finished it as well and I really liked the end.Spoilers i guess:
When Seht talks about prisoners, and how the diference between him and us is that the prisoner can see their cell door, an exit. While even gods cannot be anything more than the product of their circunstances, we the prisioners/heroes have an outside perspective (we are not in the game), and are free from the hands of fate. It's nice to see this kind of meta-lore outside morrowind, it's part of what made the 36 lessons interestnng.
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>>57401323
Oh, yeah. I had liked that Prisoner talk, too.
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>>57398443
>I was glad they made Fyr pretty likeable
Really?
I very much dislike the way the portray Fyr, they give him this overtly serious, incredibly imperious attitude which is quite astonishingly the exact opposite of how he is portrayed in Morrowind (though given the texts ESO has Fyr in prior to the DLC, I'm not really all that surprised they don't understand his character).
Divayth Fyr is a fucking old ass weirdo whose already seen it all. He doesn't give a shit about presence, reputation, or ridiculous notions of superiority. He's not some power hungry shit or someone who holds judgement or contempt for the ways in which others decide to live their lives. He doesn't take anything seriously beyond his research, not a care in the world beyond entertaining himself and his curiosity, so long as what he does fulfills these desires he couldn't care less about the outcome. His knowledge, ability, and shear longevity of course makes him a very important and sought after man but otherwise he's perfectly content keeping to himself, studying whatever he will, and fucking his sexy daughters. I mean, we're talking about the type of dude who collects priceless artifacts from across Tamriel just so he can laugh his ass off watching would-be thiefs fail horribly trying to obtain them.
He'd fucking mock the arrogant mook ESO makes him out to be.
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>>57403215
Huh. I was actually dreading he'd act really pompous and belittling to everyone, and thought he was actually pretty sincere for the most part. It was a pretty serious situation everyone was involved in, so the more urgent tone he had for a lot of it made sense to me. I might not have been paying enough attention to how he acted compared to Morrowind, though.
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Any good morrowind fanfiction?

I stumbled upon "From the Journals of the Nerevarine" by LordsFire, which surprised me on how relatively well it was written. It had compelling NPC characters, fleshed out vanilla quests, and besides the main character being named Bill it felt exactly like canon. I honestly don't know why he was named like that, as he was a Redguard and not a self insert at all. I liked it as it retold the evens of the game, and then deviated past the limitations of it, but it stopped just as the main character was about to pursue being a Nerevarine. Now I want to find a something to read that describes how the protagonist becomes Nervar reborn though.
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>>57398588
>it just feels like the Tribunal have too much significance placed on them
this is how I feel about it as well, its mostly because they are MK's baby so he is really hung up on the trio, so they have had an increasing number of stories grow around them to the point where I am beginning to the dislike the whole lot, but especially Vivec. What was even the point of him "allowing you to beat him and accepting death" in Morrowind if he doesn't actually die? His survival is bullshit, he should have died by the end of Morrowind and stayed dead.
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>>57405430
I mean, that's what I consider canon. Him dying after losing the godhood granted to him by the Heart and never coming back. It's pretty cheap otherwise.
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>>57405430
>I am beginning to the dislike the whole lot, but especially Vivec.
>Vivec.
>not fuckable
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>>57396481
Nuh-Uh. They're cool!
They're cheerful, chivalric warrior-poets, wandering the land, spreading merriment, protecting the innocent and striking down evil!
They're also definitely better than the Ordinators. Almost all of them have glass armor which is far superior stats wise both in lore and in game, indicating they're much more skilled. They're also less common. They're probably some sort of elite unit. I wish there was more lore on them.
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>>57389307
As far as I understand, the tribal Reachmen are mostly Foresworn - they went back to the old ways due to pressure from the Empire and such. Most of them weren't actually tribals at all before that, or at least hadn't been for several centuries.

There is a possibility that they were like the Dunmer and the Ashlanders, but I'm skeptical about that chiefly because the Ashlanders keep to their old ways because of dissatisfaction with the Tribunal. The Reachmen don't seem to have that sort of pressure and seem to have more or less peacefully coexisted with their neighbors.
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>>57405327
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/hearth-there-comes-stranger
I like this.
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>>57405527
I think we all know that's not true
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>>57405645
>is far superior stats wise
its not that much better actually, indoril has 45 base armour, glass has 50. Its still better but not far superior
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>>57405913
Oh, shit, really?
In-lore, it's way better though, isn't it? I mean what's Indoril armor even made of? I thought it was just like high quality steel painted gold or something.
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>>57405327
https://www.reddit.com/user/laurelanthalasa/submitted/?count=25&after=t3_5nktoe

>inb4 leddit
I really like her interpretation of the events, taking under the consideration Sermons and other sources
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>>57406467
>In-lore, it's way better though, isn't it?
hard to say really, I don't recall their being any comparative analysis works on armour in the lore, sure we know that ebony is better than steel, but the extent to which one material is inherently better than another hasn't really been discussed much in lore AFAIK. I am also not sure what Indoril armour is made of, I always assumed its painted bonemold.

speaking of armour, I liked how in Skyrim after you get that dwemer memories perk dwemer armour stats are actually comparable to ebony armour stats. It always seemed weird to me that a civilization as advanced as the dwemer had such crap armour, so I always headcanoned it by assuming that people simply don't know how to use it properly. And that quest in Skyrim kinda confirms it, since absorbing some dwemer memories and that buffing armour can be seen as TLD finally figuring out how to properly use it
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>>57406798
I always saw Dwemer armor as basically ancient magicka-powered Power Armor, and modern Mer and Men don't have the full know-how of how to use it.
Pic related, art from a guy on tumblr. I imagine they took various parts of ancient scrap armor and pieced it together, more effective than steel but not as good as it would be in it's original state, of course. Also a huge status symbol.
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>>57390939
>>57391111
>>57391192
Very Giger-esque, great job. I'm imagining some sort of Paladins trying to rescue someone/something from the realm, or escape, and slowly being corrupted.
>>57391114
Jesus Christ how horrific. Go become a writer for Bethesda please.
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>>57391311
>>57391363
Damn that's even better. Why'd you delete it man?
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>>57396481
>>57405645

And don't forget the part where Vivec summoned sexy daedra whores to fuck them after they helped him capture one of his monster children.
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>>57406848

is there a higher resolution version of this?
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>>57406970
I've looked, can't really find one yet sadly. I might ask the guy.
The little bit of text is mostly readable. Here's the source I got the art itself from:
http://polygonevangelist.tumblr.com/
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>>57406948
l-lewd
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>>57407028
Because I am a magical and mighty wizard skilled in Mysticism, I know how to obtain the images of tumblr in their raw form.
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>>57407028
'Only a dozen of these massive armor suits were assembled in 3E 427 by Great House Telvanni armorers. According to the Tel Naga archives, this technology was retrieved from the tenebrous stronghold of Tureynal. The original Dwemeric armor construction manual, known as "The Pattern", was likely composed by the tonal metalworks as a by-product of their colossal Numidium construction."
"The most fierce dwemerclad House fetchmen were called Rust Adepts, serving as the vanguard of Telvanni rapacious expansion into Molag Amur, bending this harsh region to the House will."
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>>57407113
Oh, well I'm a retard then. How'd you do it?
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>>57407124
Just google 'tumblr raw,' it's easy enough to find but just difficult enough to explain I don't want to provide examples. Tumblr also apparently updates enough you'll have to keep up with the trick every so often anyway.
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>>57407142
Thanks.
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>>57406925
>I'm imagining some sort of Paladins trying to rescue someone/something from the realm, or escape, and slowly being corrupted.
I was imagining a story about a group of reachmen who become forsworn, then out of desperation and trickery pledge themselves to Namira. Some of the forsworn disagree, fighting breaks out the ones against Namira are killed all but one, who escapes and later joins some shady adventurer group led by a necromancer as a mercenary. Namira demands those forsworn loyal to her to catch the Dissident, and sets up a trap deep in the mountains as fighting breaks out the whole group is lured in the Scuttling Void somehow, the Dissident decides to kill all her brethren fallen to Namira, which Namira doesn't particularly oppose but makes sure that in the process the Dissident has to continuously degrade and degenerate herself, slowly becoming indistinguishable from the fallen brethren she set out to eliminate. These are the broad strokes of the story, I have some ideas about the specifics and the methods employed thought out as well - I mean I've imagined already the key enemies, the ways teh Dissident tries to cope with corruption and her method of tearing the souls of the reachmen out of Namiras hands and even how her method partially faills in the end, but a lot of things are also undecided, like for example I am not even sure if this story should feature the Dissident as the sole "main character" or if the events are something an adventurer or a group of adventurers runs into and can affect the outcome of
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>>57406467
>what's Indoril armor even made of?
"Indoril armor is the ornate heavy armor style worn by Ordinators, a military order of knights in service of the Tribunal Temple. Gold leaf details the pauldrons, bracers, and helm of this insect-shell laminate armor. So many Ordinators come from House Indoril that the armor style is known as 'Indoril' armor, though knights of all Great Houses may serve as Ordinators."

From Bethesda's official site back then.
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And speaking of Dwemer armor:

"The secrets of Dwemer armorcraft are long-forgotten. All examples encountered are thousands of years old, salvaged from ancient Dwemer ruins. Dwemer armor is heavy and cumbersome, but Dwemer craftsmanship and metallurgy are unmatched in any modern metal armor style. Enthusiasts pay fabulous prices for individual pieces, and the few complete sets are in the hands of collectors." - same source as above

"I laughed to myself, thinking of the many warriors unwittingly walking around Tamriel with pieces of Dwarven mechanisms on their backs. For that, of course, is what most "Dwarven armor" really is - just the armored shells of ancient mechanical men. I sobered when I thought of how exceedingly valuable an intact mechanism would be." - The Ruins of Kemel-ze
>>
>>57388587
I always let the execution happen. Rogvir was a traitor
>>
Actually let me post all of the armor/weapon stuff, it has some interesting info:

Netch Leather
Most outlanders adopt the comfortable and affordable native netch leather armor style when they come to Morrowind. The intrinsic durability and flexibility of netch hide, combined with the elaborate articulation of the Dunmer design and painstaking craftsmanship, make netch armor far superior to the heavy, inelegant leather armor styles of the West.

Chitin
Made from laminated insect shell glued with organic resins, chitin armor is also superior to any comparable Western light armor designs. Chitin armor gives better protection, but is lighter and more comfortable, than Western light leather and reinforced leather armors. Here, as in most native style, a scarf protects the neck and mouth from blowing sand and ash while campaigning.

Bonemold
Also known as 'Great House' armor in Morrowind, bonemold is a medium weight armor affordable only by Dunmer nobles. Each piece is assembled from many pieces of softened shell, molded into shape, then bonded and reinforced with resin glues. The example shown here features a distinctive House Redoran gah-julan ('great-benefit') helm with the protective cowl deployed for ash wastes travel.

Indoril
Indoril armor is the ornate heavy armor style worn by Ordinators, a military order of knights in service of the Tribunal Temple. Gold leaf details the pauldrons, bracers, and helm of this insect-shell laminate armor. So many Ordinators come from House Indoril that the armor style is known as 'Indoril' armor, though knights of all Great Houses may serve as Ordinators.

Glass
The Dunmer are the masters of light armor design, and the glass armor is the pinnacle of that design. Inspired by traditional High Elven ornate armors, this very expensive armor is studded with native volcanic glass. Remarkably light and flexible, glass armor absorbs and distributes shock better than steel.

cont
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>>57408116
Dwarven
The secrets of Dwemer armorcraft are long-forgotten. All examples encountered are thousands of years old, salvaged from ancient Dwemer ruins. Dwemer armor is heavy and cumbersome, but Dwemer craftsmanship and metallurgy are unmatched in any modern metal armor style. Enthusiasts pay fabulous prices for individual pieces, and the few complete sets are in the hands of collectors.

Iron Plate
Western-style iron plate provides good protection, but is so heavy and uncomfortable that despite its modest cost and wide availability in Imperialized Morrowind, adventurers and mercenaries quickly upgrade to better-quality metal armors or adopt the lighter native laminated shell armors when they can afford them.

Imperial Guard Heavy Armor
Imperial Guard armor is a more expensive and decorative version of the common Legion veteran's heavy infantry armor. Chain is worn over leather padding, with steel greaves, pauldron, cuirass, and helm.

Templar Heavy Armor
Officers of the Imperial Legion and knights of the various Imperial military orders are privileged to wear this armor. Plate cuirass and greaves and a reinforced steel helm are worn over leather padding and chain. Though heavy and uncomfortable for campaigning, this armor gives excellent protection in melee combats.

Orcish Medium Armor
Based on High Elven designs, orcish armor is an ornate but remarkably light steel plate worn over cloth padding. Light and comfortable by contrast with other steel plate designs, orcish armor commands premium prices from campaigning mercenary officers and style-conscious nobles.

cont
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>>57408131
Chitin
These native Dunmer weapons are created from the sturdy but light exoskeletons of local creatures. Layers of chitin are typically laminated using bug resin glues to form strong but flexible weapons. The serrated edges of the original materials are exploited to create especially wicked daggers and slashing weapons.

Iron
For centuries, cheap and serviceable iron and iron-reinforced weapons have been produced in quantity for the Legions. These and similarly made iron weapons are in use throughout the Empire.

Steel
Imperial steel weapons are standard issue for the elite units of the Legions. Nobles, merchant-traders, and professional mercenaries prefer the higher quality materials and craftsmanship of Imperial steel. Various other weapons of exotic design (in particular, the tantos and katanas made in the Akaviri style) are also made of high-quality steel.

Silver
High-quality steel is plated or filagreed with silver because of the arcane effects of the precious metal on the flesh of magical and supernatural creatures. Well-heeled aristocrats and bravos also sport such weapons for their distinctive elegance.

Dwarven
These refined and elegant weapons resist corrosion and retain their edge in spite of hard use, and are notable among the distinctive relics of the extinct Dwemer race. Enterprising adventurers risk life and limb to recover these ornate, heavy weapons from the Dwarven ruins scattered throughout Tamriel.

cont
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>>57408145
Nordic
These massive steel weapons are forged according to the secret metalcrafts of the Nord smiths, and engraved with runes in the manner of the legendary witch-warriors of Skyrim.

Glass
These light and elegant weapons of Elven manufacture feature extravagant use of rare metals and cutting edges made from rare crystalline materials. Duellists and assassins appreciate the delicate balance and sinister sharpness of glass weapons.

Ebony
Ebony weapons are made from a rare form of volcanic glass found almost exclusively in the buried deposits and surface lava flows of Vvardenfell's Red Mountain. 'Ebony' refers to the lustrous, black, glassy surface of ebony weapons.

Daedric
Daedric weapons are made from ebony which has been refined using the craft and magical substances of the lesser minions of Oblivion. The process is not a pleasant one for the Daedra involved, and the weapons retain echoes of preternaturally prolonged suffering endured during manufacture. Daedric weapons are the most rare and expensive weapons known in Tamriel.
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For some reason I imagine Vaermina's realm as a valley with multiple rivers feeding into a lake in the middle. In the middle of this lake there's a city with a huge castle where she lives. The lake basically acts like a giant moat, and the whole realm is kinda like the Cyrodiil heartland except all dark and corrupted and the city doesn't look like the imperial city at all.
And this huge castle of hers is like some fucked up funhouse where the layout makes no sense whatsoever, it's a complete maze and contains multiple sub-realms (the kind she gives to her followers)
good luck ever making it to the throneroom
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>>57408855
from UESP:
>Quagmire, or the Dreamstride, is a realm of Oblivion, created and ruled over by the Daedric Prince of Nightmare, Vaermina. It is a realm of horrors, where reality shifts upon itself in seemingly impossible ways. Every few minutes, lightning flashes and the realm morphs into a terrifying scene, each one more frightening than the last.
it seems her realm lacks any constant form
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>>57408855
Great, you just stole the Coldharbour idea.
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>>57407114
thanks anon
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>>57408928
ESO isn't canon
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>>57408965
I agree.
Good thing descriptions of Coldharbour as a corrupted version of Tamriel predate ESO.
Bad thing you didn't know this simple fact already you dumb fuck.
>>
>>57403313
>>57403313
Serious wasn't the correct word, imperious was. He acts like someone who genuinely sees himself so beyond everything and everyone that everything to him is just another simple walk in the park to him. But not someone who would simply enjoy the walk and pleasant distractions and new curiosities it might bring, but someone who judges the walk like every other and remains thoroughly unimpressed with every step.
They present him as the type of guy who believes his own opinions are infallible because he's just that good and therefore can never possibly be wrong, someone who would gladly accept and probably agree with being given the title 'Greatest Wizard who ever Lived.'
The real Divayth Fyr is a guy who clearly gave up meaningless and petty pretensions like that a very long time ago. He seems like one of the most down-to-earth guys ever who, having lived for millenia, only really cares about finding ways to keep himself busy and entertained and remain content. He has no incentive to prove anything to anyone, the fact that he's an ancient immortal wizard holds very little meaning to him. He still understands that there is much to do and much to learn and many opinions to be held, and he appreciates, rather than scoffs at, all the little things.
>>
>Been playing TES for nearly two decades
>Just noticed Orc’s pupils
Why are they like this? Are all elves’ eyes like this?
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>>57410471
Orcs used to have monkey eyes in MW at least.
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>>57410471
nope, in fact i've been too damn away from skyrim to evade this Victoria waifuposting
>>
Anyone got a good name for a title for a Nord mage? I'm coming up blank.
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>>57410657
It’s just an Orc face from google with a good view of the pupils, not waifu posting.
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>>57410768
I usually google Norse names. If you have a D&D 5e Xanathar’s Guide; there’s a list of 100 Norse names in there
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>>57410768
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord_Names
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>>57395334
i just met fyr in morrowind amd he suggests getting dragons (from cyrodiil) to kill all of the cliff racers and that he's heard that juib ppans to do it.
but i do have dialogue mods installed
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>>57411814
I dont recall that being vanilla dialogue
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>>57411035
I've got the first name, but I'm struggling for a title/surname. I want something vaguely mystical but not too cheesy.
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>>57411980
Spell-Thrower
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>>57411980
Witchborne, ______ the Spellsinger, Snowsinger, _____ the Mystic, ______ the Third-Eyed
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>>57409838
Not him but I agree. Also, if it helps, ESO takes place ~700 years before Morrowind, so thats plenty of time for Fyr to change his personality over the years. He was just going through a phase...
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>>57412050
Ravensighted, ______ the Black, _______ the Touched, _______ Elf-kin (as an insult taken as a title)
>>
>Be me roleplaying my Orc Fighter/Berserker
>He’s superstitious and untrusting of magic except Wisewoman’s poultices and poisons
>Only use Two-Hand and Heavy Armor skills
>Pretty fun if not a little underpowered
>Get kicked from party because I’m an “objective burden” because I’m not pulling 1337 damage and “taking too long” taking in the sights and lore
ES:O is the very worst thing to happen to TES hands down. Fight me
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>>57411022
yeah but it was made by victoria, in fact i pretty much got bored of nexus due to most of the mod screenshots being attributed to her characters
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>>57412050
>>57412069

Thanks, these were helpful and managed to shift away what ever block I had. Quite happy with the name "Styrkar Wyrd-Eye" but I'll probably end up changing it at some point desu
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>>57412490
Is Victoria a modder? I was never in the PC scene, just an Xbox pleb. I’ll have to see if she ported any over because it looks like it enhances the realism and I’m all about that immersion
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>>57412451
yeah, one of the reasons I dislike MMOs is that everyone is always rushing forward like crazy and you feel constantly lagging behind AND most guilds/groups don't want you
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>>57412664
she "is" but is mostly her hand made characters and crazy photoshop skills that were used to promote mods a long time ago, her orc character was related to the forsworn i think

Tl;DR she was "Mod Photographer"
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>>57403215
>Divayth Fyr is a fucking old ass weirdo whose already seen it all. He doesn't give a shit about presence, reputation, or ridiculous notions of superiority. He's not some power hungry shit or someone who holds judgement or contempt for the ways in which others decide to live their lives. He doesn't take anything seriously beyond his research, not a care in the world beyond entertaining himself and his curiosity, so long as what he does fulfills these desires he couldn't care less about the outcome. His knowledge, ability, and shear longevity of course makes him a very important and sought after man but otherwise he's perfectly content keeping to himself, studying whatever he will,

Basically none of this is contradicted in ESO, you're just looking for reasons to hate it.

There's also the fact that 700 years separate ESO and Morrowind and even ancient motherfuckers are gonna grow and evolve in that span of time.
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>>57390939
>>57391111
>>57391192
I like to imagine Scuttling Void as an atypical world lacking such concepts as "sky" and "surface" and instead comprised of a labyrintine network of claustrophobic, suffocating tunnels sometimes opening up into titanic rifts in space leading into the actual Void of Oblivion, outside the known realms.

And speaking of the Planes of Oblivion, I really don't like how bethesda presented the Deadlands in Oblivion. Instead of plain "lava level" I imagine it being like young RL Earth, with seas of molten rock coming into contact with Biblical-scale floods, producing endless typhoons and quakes. Local Dremora must rely on teamwork and strict hierarchy to not be swallowed up by their own homeworld, and death is actually pretty common. On the other hand, Dagon's cynosures burn brighter than any other and the travel back through the Waters of Oblivion is less long and arduous.
>>
Is OpenMW actually playable yet? Can I play through the main game and expansions with no problems?
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>>57413574
These are the lines that really struck me as things Fyr would never say.
Throughout the entire DLC they make him act so standoffish and entitled like some full on fucking try-hard, which is the exact opposite word I would use to describe who Divayth Fyr is.
Not just that but even in just his general demeanor, the way he is voiced in this stately condescending manner, the way he is literally always frowning, it's all wrong.
Sure you can say 'but maybe he's just changed over the years' it doesn't make it less annoying, especially seeing as he is still thousands of years old, and therefore still a character who has an outlook on life very few could ever know or experience.
It's like if Yoda was at one point really snobbish and edgy during his 'wild years' at age 500. It doesn't add up.
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>>57414546
Wow they really made Fyr an edgy fucker.
Could've at least consulted gary Noonan on how to write his character.
Then again it's ESO so whatever, zero expectations.
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>>57414546
Ah, I agree with you based on that screenshot. Bit too disparaging.
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>>57414546
Fyr is absolutely a dick to you if you test his patience in Morrowind, but you didn't notice because you gave him a gift immediately; it is not out of character for him to harass people who had just gotten through trying to impede him frankly. There's also ample lines in CWC that contradict your reading, that suggest he also possess humility. Hell, you can talk to him before HoF and he'll betray that he doesn't really care about the Telvanni gift of a tower beyond its ability to facilitate his research.

Really not that out of character from my perspective. The dude owned slaves several hundred years after the events of ESO, and you're seriously surprised he says shit like "the menials?"
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>>57415540
>Fyr is absolutely a dick to you if you test his patience in Morrowind
Easy with your ESO apologism there, I just checked his dialogue lines and didn't find anything remotely like this. The worst thing he says is "I don't want to talk to boring people, sorry." when his disposition is lower than 50 and, of course "You killed one of Tel Fyr residents so I'll have you die for that." The shit he says in the above screencap is more becoming of Neloth.
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>>57415540
I never implied Fyr wasn't sort of a dick. I said all he cares about is tickling his gleeful curiosities which he will accomplish by an means, in other words he seems to place more worth on achieving said goals than he places on the well being of others. He doesn't show any concern for the fact that you have contracted a terrible disease, nor the fact that the cure he offers is more than likely to kill you, in the end all he cares about is seeing whether his potion worked or not, and not even because he wants to help the sufferers in his basement, but because of the magical ramifications a corprus cure could have. He literally uses his patients as makeshift guards for his treasure hoard.
All this said, the last thing Divayth Fyr is, is an arrogant imperious sort, with these 'i'm so impressive' pretensions. He's really a bit of a kook if anything. He's a weirdo with a weird ass morbid sense of humor and he doesn't give a shit. He does the things he does because he enjoys them, if he didn't enjoy them, he wouldn't do them, and he doesn't give the slightest shit if people disagree with that because he has nothing to prove to anybody. So when ESO depicts him as this entitled 'ughh what a drag I can't believe I have to deal with these menials, this is all so below me' it kind of makes you wonder what the fuck Divayth is even really doing there, you understand? Because the real Divayth would probably walk up to this guy and say, hey if there is really something you'd rather be doing right now, shouldn't you be doing it?

As for the slaves, he ended up freeing them all eventually, and the last one he had loved him so much that he refused to leave. Doesn't really sound like the type of guy who treats his slaves like dirt.
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>What no one has ever seen is the connection between Meridia and Kyne. Let that sink in. What do they-- when connected-- both govern?
I am not going to post the whole passage because its too big for a single post, but what does MK mean here? this is honestly more confusing to me than the Sermons
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Keeping ontopic with the floating fuckers, what did they morph into after Vivec left and their world burned?
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>>57416568
Typical MK 16deep1008u bullshit.
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Is there anywhere online where the artwork for the cards from Legends stored?
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>>57414258
>rifts in space leading into the actual Void of Oblivion
thats why I said
>>57390939
>now mind you I am not saying that it is a literal giant centipede, I am only saying that the world is scuttling.
basically, I imagine her realm as "scuttling through void" like a giant centipede, the void as in THE VOID
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>>57398443
His dialogue about Almalexia and Vivec were great though. They nailed him being bored and caring about them both at the same time.
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>>57416568
They are connected, as in they are sort of about the same thing. It's some weird association that MK made up, because they feel similar in some dreamlike fashion. It has mostly to do with their relationship to Lorkhan, and their reaction to it.

Kyne governs the elements, wind, rain, she created the shouts. Meridia's sphere is energy, light, life, she hates the undead. All these are probably supposed to express their reaction to what happened to Lorkhan: Kynareth mourns him ("she is associated with rain, a phenomenon that is said not to have occurred before the removal of Lorkhan's divine spark."), while Meridia awaits him (because she is a Magne-Ge who didn't flee, she also waited similarly for Umaril). Now the association between their spheres is for example that rain can bend light into a rainbow, Meridia has to do with the energies of living things while Kyne ushers the spirits to the afterlife, sound and light or energy are connected, and probably some other associations. MK puts it in a more obscured fashion in what you quoted. Also there are more connections between major spirits in TES which similarly can be gathered from the creation myths and the spheres of the deities, if you're into that sort of thing.
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>>57387994
>>57387939
So where are these models from? Fan made or part of the Skyrim DLC? Tfw still haven't played it.
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>>57417883
come on, its in the 3rd post in the thread

>>57388273
>Artist that made the 3D model is Tiziano Bucci.
>https://www.artstation.com/artwork/P2bZ
>Artist that did the original concept art it was based off of is Oskar Jakubisiak/Swietopelk/Dragomir.
>https://swietopelk.deviantart.com/
>They both were made for Skywind. I think the glass armor is finished fully now, actually.
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>>57417898
Ah shit nigga my bad. I did a brief scan of all the posts replying with them and I guess I just glazed over that post assuming it was a reply to something else.
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>>57416615
pretty sure we still see them in the Dragonborn DLC, so they're still surviving, if only on Solstheim. They seem like rather tough creatures.
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>>57418716
I guess it wasn't clear, but I was referring to the buoyant armigers.
But netches are awesome too!
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>>57414258
>>57416910
I've always imagined the scuttling void being something like pic
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Ashlanders have the best style.
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>>57415964
you left out a lot, my guy.

>>57416512
first of all only on fucking 4chan will people try to handwave slave owning lmfao

Second, 700 years still represents nearly a quarter of the man's life; you're basically suggesting the equivalent of someone being exactly the same person, with the same value and judgement system, at 60 as they are at 80, and that's not going to be the case. Divayth Fyr comes to Clockwork self-absorbed, and arguably rightfully so since by his estimation he might be equal in power to the Tribunal and certainly more powerful than any non-Divine wizard he's met. He puts up with shit because he considers Seht a close friend and wants to see this through, and had you actually come to the xpac in good faith you might notice that his closing statements communicate humility and the definite sense that he still has a lot of work in front of him. In other words, he had a character arc instead of already being the guy he's going to be a quarter of his life later. What a crime.

I get that ESO sucked out loud 4 years ago and still has awful vanilla content lingering in the base game, but maybe you should approach their new work with fresh eyes instead of coming into hating it? Just a thought there bro.
>>
Is the Tribunal Temple at the time of Morrowind a Ethno-Nationalist/Spiritualist Religion? As in, do they only accept Dunmer, and what is their justification theologically for doing so? And, vice versa, if they do not only accept Dunmer, what is their theological justification for doing so?
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>>57422212
>As in, do they only accept Dunmer,
well you can play as a non-dunmer and still be accepted, so no
>what is their theological justification for doing so?
I'm afraid I don't remember if it was ever explained
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>>57422212
Is something wrong with owning slaves? It's permitted by Imperial law, you know. I respect your opinion but it sounds a bit Dunmerphobic so I think you have some growing up to do.
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>>57387939
Is ESO's lore basically null and void or when I'm browsing through uesp can I read shit that happens in that game as something actually worthwhile?
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>>57424280
I've never played ESO, but I've seen some bits of lore from it, and its quite ok
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I wanted to create a new Morrowind character, inspired by this picture and it's description:
>ibn garo, a redoran ascetic, and also the result of my first playthrough of morrowind.
So, either from canon sources or your own headcanon, how do ascetics/mystics/monks fit into Redoran society and the Tribunal temple?
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>>57424280
Vanilla content is hot sweaty garbage, DLC content is serviceable to sometimes good. Personally I think TES:O is either a feverdream had by your character while being tortured in Coldharbour, or Molag Bal achieved CHIM and is trying to rape the lore.
>>
>>57424539
I've actually done a great playthrough as a mystic/ascetic a while ago. Sadly I've changed computers since then and can't load up my save. As for how they fit into Temple/Redoran society, it would probably depend on the individual in question. Enduring hardship seems to be a large part of Dunmer culture/belief, so a ascetic/mystic would take this to the extreme. Saint Aralor wore a hair shirt and performed pilgrimages on his knees (and as a reformed criminal, would be a great inspiration for your character) and you deliver food to a hermit in a Temple quest and the Fellowship of the Temple says that Mysticism is practised to "learn more of the divine" so there's definitely a basis for it in the in game lore. However, I can't remember if this was vanilla, added by a mod or something I made up, but I remember a character saying that the Temple is currently suspicious of mystics because they're really big on religious orthodoxy, which makes sense considering their overall attitude. I kind of get the feeling that House Redoran, while devout, is more tolerant of less orthodox practices, as they provide the majority of the Bouyant Armingers who contrast heavily with the severe Ordinators, and I could definitely see House Redoran rallying fanatical Dunmer to war during dire crises.

I based a lot of my playthrough on the practices of Hindu Sadhus. Sadly afaik there's no mod so you can wear their awesome orange/red robes, though i did find a mod that added a trident that looked like a Trishul. The way I played my character was that, going back to how a Dunmer mystic/ascetic would be enduring all the bad shit all the time with no chill, so they'd go out into Ashstorms/inside the Ghostfence late at night wearing nothing, fight blighted monsters and servants of the Sixth House armed only with a club, try to collect and read the complete collection of the 36 Lessons while living in the underworks of Vivec/Molag Mar.
>>
>>57424539
>>57425235
I eventually had them become something of a dunmer version of an Aghori, finding holiness by transcending social taboos: smoking skooma (interesting fact, Skooma pipes have the same symbol on them that you find on the cover of religious books like the 36 lessons, Lives of the saints etc), living in an ancestral tomb and consuming the bonemeal within, consorting with Bad Daedra and liberating slaves. This of course, led them to being expelled. My character took it as a sign that the Temple was false, and so ended up joining House Telvanni for their free spirited ways, and eventually Dagoth Ur (with the Great House Dagoth mod), but I easily could've taken it as a sign that they needed to reform their ways and cut down on the heresy.
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>>57425235
>>57425348
The Aghori-esque approach would be more fitting for a Daedra worshiper. I was thinking of a more conservative vision of a monk, a particular kind of warrior-mystic, almost like an errant knight in some ways. Walking the world barefoot, spreading mercy, seeking mystery, and attaining mastery.
He'd give all the gains he makes in his travels to the poor, or to the temple, and only keep enough for his own survival, training, and acquiring books and such things.
I was thinking Unarmored, Acrobatics and Athletics, and Hand-to-Hand as well as Long Blade to represent the mastery over the physical body, and Restoration and Alteration primarily for magic.
I think for such a character, Redoran is the obvious choice, and once they get to a higher level, they may try to combine House Dunmer and Ashlander practices, particularly Redoran House traditions. And by the end, when they're practically a walking God, after the main quest, they'd destroy the Tribunal themselves. Or something.
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>>57423634
i kill you in every game of morrowind i play
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man /tgesg/ has really fallen on hard times
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Kinda sick of Dunmer desu. Can we get another focal race soon?
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>>57426105
I like Nords, but they lost a lot of their cool aspects in Skyrim and lots of people just think they're stupid :c
I was imagining a spiritual kyne-worshipper Dovahkiin, another warrior mystic type. Climbing the 7000 steps, meeting and training with the greybeards, searching the land for Dovah lore and such, ascending to sovngarde, etc., it's all rather spiritual/intellectual. But little of that was emphasized in game.
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>>57426129
Funny, aside from the deep Kyne worship that's exactly the character one of my players want to play, and he had never played any of the games or read any of the lore until a couple of weeks ago.
What cools parts of the Nords did you think Skyrim glossed over?
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>>57426245
All the Old Gods. The Nords had their own Totemic religion, similar to nine/eight divine worship but unique from it in many ways. Some shards of it remain in Skyrim, but for the most part it was sacked for fully imperialized 9/8-Divine worship.
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>>57426105
maybe the inevitable Valenwood/Elsweyr game will make people appreciate those two races more, since so far in every game they are featured in they are nothing more than just some meme character - Fargoth/Adoring Fan

>>57426129
>I like Nords, but they lost a lot of their cool aspects in Skyrim
I thought the depiction was pretty good actually, like sure they are a shadow of their former glory, but so it literally every other race in the setting, I mean its not like the Empire ever recovered their space ships, or anything of that sort

>>57426245
>What cools parts of the Nords did you think Skyrim glossed over?
the differences in Nordic and Imperial view could have been made more apparent. Sure the Skaal in Dragonborn actually helped with that, by introducing the older religion, the special relationship they have with HermaMora and many other cool aspects, but in vanilla main campaign its quite downplayed, unless you talk a lot to Paathurnax and the Greybeards, who actually do have things to say about Kyne and older ways, and notice the people actually meditating around the 7k steps, well when I say people I mean its literally just 3 NPC, but then with TES games scale thats not that few actually. Come to think of it, I almost like that actually, its like the great war and then the civil war and the fixation around Talos worship has taken the spotlight off of Kyne. Seems neat.

Anyway, for your players try to emphasize meditation, inner searching, and consider the fact that unless the player is a Dragonborn, the process of dealing with the Greybeards and learning Thuum is an incredibly slow one, like it can take years to fully learn a single word
>>
>>57426245
>>57426349
just to add to this, also consider which era your story takes place in, the further into the past you go from Skyrim, the more traditional their religion should be
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>>57426105
I kind of agree. It feels like Bethesda/Zenimax thinks that people absolutely adore Dunmer in every way shape and form no matter what. And while Dunmer are rad, people really only care so much because Morrowind's world and story are so realized. But when I played through Morrowind, I was always excited about all of the details and info I could glean about distant lands. Nords were my favorite race and there was nothing I wanted more than to see Skyrim.

And then we got it and it's much more generic than the descriptions led us to believe. And the story, while it does have some interesting lore, is squandered and weak. It was incredibly disappointing, though I still love Nords.

It's a problem of people de facto liking Dunmer because Morrowind is the only Elder Scrolls game that delivered the feeling of a race/culture so perfectly throughout the entire game. Morrowind's world and the culture of the Dunmer is realized and not toned down to be palatable to a wider audience. Oblivion and Skyrim are able to deliver the feeling in specific moments or questlines, but most of the rest is devoid of the soul that Morrowind has.

>>57426245
Walk around in Bruma in Oblivion and talk to NPCs. They'll talk about how different Nords and Imperials are. Imperials are Divine-fearing citizens that adhere to the law and work hard. Nords are pagan barbarians that still follow the Old Ways and are constantly rowdy. They had this entire idea of their separate gods and truly being a race of barbarians that really wasn't present in Skyrim beyond the obligatory "MUH HONOR SHOR'S BONES" stuff.

Also, for the whole idea that Nords were kind of xenophobic and racist, Skyrim does an incredibly poor job of showing it. It's about as metropolitan as Cyrodil was and most people have a fair shake at life without anybody batting an eye.
>>
>>57426349
>I thought the depiction was pretty good actually, like sure they are a shadow of their former glory, but so it literally every other race in the setting, I mean its not like the Empire ever recovered their space ships, or anything of that sort
Don't get me wrong, I still like them. And of course it would never be as good in person as it was written down, but they still could have done a better job.
>>
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>>57426395
>but they still could have done a better job.
definitely - not gonna argue with that, but in some perverse way I found their depiction to be satisfying, I mean it felt very melancholic, especially when you talk to greybeards, Paathurnax and then to the people in Sovnguard - even the gate keeper points out that Nords used to appreciate cleverness and magic, so you look around and you see the actual holds - Winterhold is a shadow of its former glory and pretty much abandoned, Falkreath is dominated by a graveyard and its entire culture revolves on the fact that so many of Nordic people have died, hell Solitude literally has a melancholic name, Nords are having a bitter civil war over a deity who was never even the main deity, the Battle-born and Grey-manes having some members who actually mention that they used to be friends - or that woman in Whiterun saying "there is a rift here in Skyrim, which neither passing of time nor magic can heal" and then of course the legend of the dragonborn mentions the rift and the depiction of Skyrim on Alduins wall is also that of a province torn by a giant hole. Maybe its because a lot of the OST was melancholic in a good way. Basically when playing it I felt like I was in some fading/disintegrating region, and it I really enjoyed it, I know the word immersive has become a meme, but I felt immersed into this failing province
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ok, lets be real her for a second, there is no way Bethesda will let Dark Brotherhood be completely destroyed right? This must mean that TLD being in DB will likely be canon, because without TLDs involvement it seems the DB is doomed to fail, as they have lost presence in every other province and don't even have a listener anymore
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>>57426349
>>57426362
Yeah, the campaign is going to be a little before the Oblivion crisis, so I'm going to read up on Kyne and the old gods and take a look at the Brynamman dialogue like >>57426379 said.
And while I'plan be handwaving a bit of the time required to learn new words during the campaign, the character is definitely going to know just a couple of words at the start.
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>>57426469
I definitely agree with you there. The world of TES is on the ass end of a golden age- as is the actual series, possibly.
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>>57426576
read this too
http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with
also look up which totems stand for which deities, but the core is really Kyne - she is the chief deity of the nords and the one who gave them knowledge of Thuum through Paathurnax
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>>57426576
*Bruma and *while I'm planning, damn autocorrect
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>>57426605
Will do, thanks!
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>>57426593
>The world of TES is on the ass end of a golden age
its one of the reasons why I felt very conflicted about the 5th era stuff MK wrote, one the one hand I liked having sci-fi stuff in fantasy, on the other hand the 5th era suddenly so dramatically reversing the downwards trend felt a bit jarring
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>>57426349
The Skaal religion is really different from the old nord religion though, in bloodmoon most of the Nords said as much
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>>57426792
yeah, I know, Aka-tusk is, if I understood it correctly, is from a previous Kalpa, or at least from before the dragon split into so many different versions, still seeing more primitive northerners was neat
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>>57426813
No the Skaal are monotheists and only worship the All-Maker, they don't worship Kyne or Shor or any of the other Nord gods. The only carry over from nord religions is Herma-mora who they just consider an aspect of the Adversary
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>>57422212
>a character arc
Yeah okay buddy, I'm sure that's exactly what the writers intended. I mean why else would he be acting so painfully antithetical to the character that he had already been established. It couldn't possibly mean that the writers are just a bunch of incompetents who don't actually understand the character and only shoveled him out to fulfill another meaningless callback role that adds nothing to the character and could have been given to literally any other throwaway npc, no he purposefully acts nothing like himself.
Fun fact, in order for a character to actually have an 'arc' you have to actually show them changing throughout the story said arc is inc and include circumstances that give them a reason to actually change. You don't just have them act one way in one story then immediately act the exact opposite, if that were the case you mine as well have two completely different characters. So if the real intention was to indeed include an 'arc' as you say then the writers fucked up there as well.
I find it find it funny how you don't see the irony of saying I'm trying to find reasons to hate the game when you clearly just trying to excuse the game yourself. At least at this point you're now willing to admit that he doesn't act anything like the character he was in Morrowind.

As for the slaves again, I'm not hand-waving anything, it's just a reality of the time and culture. The fact Divayth eventually freed all his slaves, and that his last even chose to stay with him anyways speaks of his respectable manner. Not that this really has much to do with my argument anymore.
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>>57427084
>the Skaal are monotheists and only worship the All-Maker,
oh I know that of course, I meant that Aka-tusk doesn't exist anymore, kinda like how Konahrik still has tusks because it was stuck in a time bubble
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>>57427281
>pic
So how do Hermaus Mora and CHIM fit together? He wrote the black books so he clearly knows of and understands all the weird metaphysical concepts
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>>57427188
>Fun fact, in order for a character to actually have an 'arc' you have to actually show them changing throughout the story said arc is inc and include circumstances that give them a reason to actually change

I literally laid this out for you, stop being disingenuous.
>>
>>57426630

Fun fact: Riften shouldn't have looked the same way in ESO as it did in Skyrim. According to a book in Skyrim, the city was nearly destroyed in a civil war fifty years earlier, and much of it was rebuilt.
>>
>>57428686
Knowing what Nirvana is and achiving it are pretty different things anon.
But seriously, to achive CHIM and not zero-sum, you need to have a very strong sense of self (like Vehk). Daedric princes are too broad concepts, they represent entire ideas. Thats why people think Lorkhan`s goal with the creation of mundus was for everyone to achive Amaranth, by striping them of their immortality/infinity and allowing everyone to have a better look at the Self.
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>>57429964
which might be why it looks completely different?
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>>57426593
I wish this was the Markarth we got. Dwarven cities are cool and all but we've seen them. A city that's been carved into the mountainside by the Thu'um would be more interesting and add a lot of character to the Nords. Also by showing what the voice can do, It'd make the LDB feel a lot more powerful.
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>>57431636
There weren't supposed to be Dwemer cities in the Reach, anyway, it was Direnni territory.
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>>57410768
i had a nice nord character:
Jormund WItchbane
old nord- skills: one handed mace, torch in other hand, restoration for turn undead and healing spells and uses a crossbow along with heavy plate armour.
>>
Has there ever been a mention of bathhouses? It'd make sense for TES to have communal bathhouses for anyone who isn't a noble (who have their own baths) or lives in a small village (where they can wash in the river)
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>>57433270
Couldn't find any mentions of bathhouses. Plenty of regular baths though:
http://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=bath+-online&fulltext=Search

But I agree.
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>>57433270
There is one in Orsinium in ESO. Seems like it can double as a whorehouse, too.
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>>57433502
>Orcs
>bathing
ESO does it again!
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>>57387939
So like
I was browsing Roman history and there was a place/people called Numidia/Numidians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numidia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numidians
Anybody aware of a symbolic connection to Our Boi? I presuming it's no coincidence, given how deep MK delved into Roman mythology for some stuff (Malacath being based on that hodgepodge hill cult springs to mind)
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>>57433270
Not that I know of, but I imagine the Imperials and perhaps the Khajiit and some Argonians would have them. Maybe Redguards too. Most other places are just too cold for such stuff.
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>>57433828
Numidium got its name back in Daggerfall before most people at Bethesda were really putting much thought into things like that so its unlikely there is meant to be any relation.
I do however vaguely recall MK saying something about how the name 'Nu-Mantia' was in someway inspired by the Numantians.
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>>57390519
I've jew'd the mudcrab merchant for millions of septims and he doesn't seem to give a shit. Cool dude.
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>>57387939
I saw a mudcrab the other day.
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>>57433828
Why does he have horns like that? Looks cool, but the only depiction of him I'm aware of is the old pixel-y Daggerfall one.
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>>57436588
That's similar to how it appears in Alduin's wall.
Really though it's unlikely Numidium has a set form due to it's nature
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>>57436588
if it ever shows up in game it's probably gonna look like a big boring dwarven centurion
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>>57387994
>"Outlander?"
>"Outlander."
>"Outlander!"
>"Outlander..."

>"...Scum."
>>
>>57426379
>Nords were my favorite race and there was nothing I wanted more than to see Skyrim.
>And then we got it and it's much more generic than the descriptions led us to believe.

>tfw your favorite race is Imperials
>cries in Oblivion
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>>57426274
nice hair nerd
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>>57400432
I always saw them as Namira worshipers. Dibella in urging her followers to worship and protect beauty in the world is in direct opposition to the daedric prince of all things abhorrent and edgy. They were not worshiping her. They were desecrating a shrine to her and they probably had similar plans for the fucked up things they were going to do to the sybil.

Relating to this conversation I'd like to recommend you guys play the mod Beyond Reach for Skyrim because it does a neat job delving into Reachmen lore.
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>>57436906
Hey, at least your favorite race isn't the Bretons.

>Daggerfall is barely anything more than generic 90s fantasy
>most lore is just generic medieval France
>any of their more interesting lore is tucked away for yet more generic medieval France in all portrayals
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If male dragons are pieces of Akatosh, and thus, represent time, how come it's only Jills that are interested in repairing time (their actions during dragon breaks)? How come male dragons just decided they wanted to take over early Nords with Alduin? I feel like I'm missing something here with the Dragon priests and what Dragons did back in that era. Were they just being bullied into it by Alduin?
Also, are dragons souls divine, and thus, unable to be trapped by a soul stone? Or would you need one of sufficient power, like the Amulet of Kings, which held the Dragon souls of the dead emperors? Where does an artifact like Azura's Star fit into this? If 'divine' souls cannot be captured by regular means, then how do the souls of Daedra get captured by them? If Meridia is a Magna'Ge, then is her soul considered 'divine' or 'aedric' instead of daedric? Because she's considered a Daedra? Man I feel like we need more research on the properties of souls. I'm confusing myself.
>>
Hi guys. I can remember reading somewhere about Redguards and Altmer both believing that a person has to attain godliness in order to reach the afterlife, otherwise they get recycled. I can't seem to find those quotes again. They were probably in-game books. Can anyone help me?
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I've only played Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind. Daggerfall is the one I like most out of all 3, Do you think I would enjoy Skyrim and Oblivion?

I mean I haven't played the newer elder scrolls but I notice people complain about the Tolkein in Oblivion even though Daggerfall is Tolkien af
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>>57433270
Temple of Dibella in Markath has a pool if I remember correctly, then there are the people at the hotsprings but its not really a bathhouse

>>57438849
>Do you think I would enjoy Skyrim and Oblivion?
just play them and see for yourself, its much better to play the game without some overly pessimistic preconceptions you got from 4chan. Though Oblivion especially is in dire need of some modding to be playable
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>>57406798
>>57406848
The Dwemer "armor" in Morrowind actually appears to be scrap from the automations you fight down in the old Dwemer ruins. In Oblivion and Skyrim it actually seems to be armor like the Dwemer would have actually worn.
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>>57438667
Jills are best described as the handmaidens of Akatosh, so they serve his will, maintaining time as needed. Dragons, however, were lead by Alduin, the Nordic aspect of Akatosh/Nordic Pantheon's leader, depending on who you ask. Alduin's influence is what lead Dragons to become soldiers of his rule. Meanwhile, Dragon Priests are basically devout followers of Alduin, who delegated the responsibilities of rule to said Priests while Alduin himself reaped the riches and status. And I believe the reason why dragon souls cannot be taken by a soul gem is because, aside from being slain by a Dragonborn's blade, killing a dragon does not force their soul back into the Atherius. A Dragon's Soul is locked to Nirn itself, and as such, does not pass, and a Soul Gem can only catch passing souls. At least, I think that's why.
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>>57438849
I'd say try them. As >>57439443 said, though, mod them a bit. Changing the default UI for Oblivion and Skyrim will make them much more enjoyable to play.
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>>57439489
what I found interesting is that even TLD doesn't absorb Alduins soul, I guess it just goes back to Aka oversoul. Which probably means that this is the fate of TLD himself when he dies, so all those Daedra expecting you to pledge yourself to them are in for a surprise

>>57439790
>that pic
Todd is /ourguy/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqfC80SRGU
but yeah, a UI mod, and in case of Oblivion a levelled lists fixing mod is a must have
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>>57439939
It's funny, really. TLD's soul is going to be split between so many fucking people. Assuming only the big questlines are canon, his soul is Draconic, so Aka has claim, but he is also a Shezzarine, and so Shor has claim, too. Nocturnal, Sithis, Hircine and Hermaeus Mora also have some claim. In all likelyhood, it'll be Shor or Aka who win out, but it's hard to tell which would have greater claim. The only Shezzarines I know of are the ones who would become Talos, so barring TLD becoming an aspect of Talos, Aka probably wins.
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>>57439939
another good idea is to get OCOv2 with blockhead
unless he wants stare at potatoes
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>>57440020
well, you can sit on Shors throne AND ghost of old Hroldan calls you - "Hjalti" so becoming an aspect of Talos is not that unlikely

>>57440022
oh yeah, thats a must have as well
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>>57440086
also, speaking of oblivion mods
do you all think it's a pain in the ass too
it took me way too fucking long getting OBSE(?) to work
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>>57440142
Bruh, modding Oblivion is the biggest pain in the ass on the planet.
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>>57440191
I have no idea why though. Morrowind is really easy to mod. So is Skyrim. But fucking Oblivion, of all games, is a pain.
I wouldn't even say it's that worth it, except for the fact I personally love the Shivering Isles expansion.
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>>57436021
>Numidium got its name back in Daggerfall before most people at Bethesda were really putting much thought into things like that
So did Malacath.
Then MK reverse engineered the cult guy into him. He has a constellation called Maloc or something.
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>>57433828
>>57436021
>>57440310
FOUND IT
The cult god was Mithras, the constellation is Malach, and there's even a specific cluster called the Armpit (ala Ash Pit). That's a lotta autistic retrofitting.
>>
So Lorewise, what counts as canon is the Bethesda developed games, Beth published works like the Umbra books, and a few lore snippets Kirkbride wrote that Bethesda acknowledges, like the Many-Headed God, right?

ESO was Zenimax, so it can be treated as a lower tier canon, like in the Star Wars EU, where as long as it does not directly contradict "real" canon, it works?
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>>57440485
>That's a lotta autistic retrofitting.
if there is one thing Bethesda has mastered its wiggling around their own lore, retroffiting, and in more extreme cases owning up to their retcons. I mean think about, what other studio when faced with the problem of too many different endings in a game, would just say:
>LMAO n'wah, their all canon!
or think of Cyrodil, it went from being boring green province in Arena, to being described as this strange and super magical realm in Morrowind, and then bam boring green again in Oblivion. And so what do they do? Instead of pretending that the two past retcons never happened - they just say:
>Talos chimmed it away
AND they even got around the problem of what to do with Hero of Kvatch:
>just make him a Daedric Prince
I am honestly looking forward to how they get rid of TLD and represent the Civil War questline. They'll probably just make the ceasefire quest canon and then say that something dramatic happened which made continuous events irrelevant
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>>57440536
yep, pretty much, I treat all MK OOG writing and ESO stuff as "canon unless stated otherwise by Bethesda" or unless I really dislike it
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>>57440582
Bethesda really has two options for TLD. Death, and possible ascension to Talos, or "They went off on an expedition to Atmora on the Greybeard's behalf," like with the Nerevarine and Akavir.

As for the Civil War, it could be a lot of stuff. Falmer uprising ends the War abruptly, Thalmor invasion ends it instantly, Titus Mede III renegotiates the White-Gold Concordat to allow Talos worship, Skyrim becomes independent via treaty, etc.

My hopeful idea is that they stay united, but get around it by the High King putting out a decree that says "The Empire has outlawed Talos worship, and we accept it. PS, lets return to our Nordic roots and worship our Totem, even Ysmir, who absolutely is NOT Talos."
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>>57440677
tfw never gonna be TLD and mantle lorkhan/talos and become god emperor of a new nord empire and re-build the old glorious ruins as our new living space
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>>57438822
It’s called ‘The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying’
>>
so, what are giants?
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>>57440536
c0da is canon and there's NOTHING you can do about it
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>>57440582
To clarify I meant it as a compliment.
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>>57440677
>Nerevarine goes east, beats up Tosh Raka & annexes Akavir
>TLD goes south, beats up Orgnum & annexes Pyandonea
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>>57440943
Everything is canon.
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>>57441025
EVERYTHING IS KUHL WHEN YOU'RE PART OF A TEAM
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>>57440893
Skyrim suggests degenerated mer. ESO suggests offshoot Atmorans.
>>57440536
In one sense, yes. In the deeper "how many levels of irony you on" sense, canon itself is an invasive concept to TES. It's a purely immaterial idea-based setting with one big dollop of physical matter plastered over the center, sticking things in loose place. The underlying undefinable memestuff is constantly leaking through to produce phenomena like magic, Dragon Breaks, and player characters:
>Sinder Velvin: Do you, by any chance, know why there are several great heroes whose deeds are very well-known, yet whose names are not? For example, very few people know the name of the so-called Eternal Champion, the one who defeated the impostor Jagar Tharn.
>Jobasha: The Eternal Champion has too many names. Was it Grachta the Redguard Knight? Dunastyr the Breton Sorcerer? Shathra, the Khajiti Assassin? Tyronicus, the Cyrodilic Battlemage? Jobasha does not know. It seems that every year, the hero earns a dozen names. Jobasha does not believe any of these names, though Jobasha once saw a tapestry of Shathra... It is a shame that Shathra is only legend, for the artist made her quite beautiful for an Ohmes.

Every individual play-through is simultaneously canon. Hence why every new game treats EVERY quest in the last one as completed. MK expanded on this by claiming every individual theory & thread & fanfic is also canon. c0da is his canon, and thus acts A an illustrative guide on how you can make your own (like how the Sermons were an illustrative guide on how to be the Nerevarine).
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>>57441289
>degenerated
quintupling your size is the opposite of degeneration, isn't it? i'm gonna go with the offshoot atmoran theory though
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>>57425158
He and Herma-mora are occupied raping Warcraft lore
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>>57426129
>dat exposed tit covered in blood
10/10 would fuck it

>>57432034
and the dwarves would give a fuck about it?

ironically though, it made sense due to the fact that blackreach is closer to the reach, and one of the Atherium research facilities is closer to one of the lifts
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>>57441687
>Warcraft lore

Even with all the bullshit we put with in TES, what with Dragon Breaks, CHIM, C0DA, etc, at least it's more coherent than Warcraft lore. We can be reasonably certain Arena is canon, after all, whereas the same cannot be said for Warcraft 1.
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>>57441304
Gorilla's are bigger & stronger than people.
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>>57441785
you can pretty much notice that is them due to

>Molag-Bal making sylvanas the mary sue like a daughter of Coldharbour of his, only to be fucked later on when she dies, he wants that booty.
>Hermaeus pulling the void old god shit over the entire Legion and Chronicles as a shitty fanfic of his about "Muh Mytery and Knowledge"

and then the 3rd party would be Kynareth since she and Meridia are probably the ones with the "Light and Moon" shenanigans as Elune
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>>57441878
dassum spooky shit
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>>57441744
They could've made Direnni and Falmer ruins but they had to go and include Dwemer just because. And the whole story with turning Falmer into gollums is just stupid
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>>57441934
I thought the degeneration of the Falmer was cool. The way they've come to occupy the dead Dwemer cities is cool too, and how they're still fighting the Dwemeri automatons. There could have been some more variance in dungeons though, take out a few of the more mundane/boring Draugr dungeons and replace them with Direnni/Falmeri dungeons.
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>>57441934
I strongly disagree, so elaboration would be appreciated.
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>>57441934
Ysgramor pretty much demolished everything falmer releated in hatred, the nords weren't smart like the Imperials who kept using the ayleid architecture for years due to its reliability and status

also keep in mind that the only known and still intact Snow elf building still intact in Skyrim its isolated from the entire world, in High Rock.
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>>57441934
>And the whole story with turning Falmer into gollums is just stupid
terrible opinion desu, I liked Falmer especially after Dawnguard. I also liked that in the process of degenerating Falmer, the Dwemer accidentally created a race that was just perfectly suited to fighting the Dwarves, which is why unbeknownst to Nords or any other surfacer, they were having a massive war under the ground. Things like them forming rudimentary religion or the Calcelmo's Stone translation is also something very interesting
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>>57441988
wouldn't chaurus be pretty much a creature created by Namira? everything pretty much points to it,
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>>57441289
>Skyrim suggests degenerated mer.
I thought Skyrim had that MK text where some Nord tells a story how Nords and giants are related but differed after "we drove them up the mountains after becoming wicked folk for a time" or something?
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>>57442008
Whatever religion the Falmer have is likely a twisted mimickry of it which Namira has influenced them with, using them as a manifestation of her power on Mundus.
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>>57442010
I think so too, but I don't remember for sure

>>57442008
I like to think so, yes, Namira and bugs just go well together in my opinion
>>
Falmer are not even people, they don't have black souls!
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>>57442231
its most likely a balancing issue - falmer are very common enemies making their souls black would create an easy source of grand souls. But of course you can conceive a lore reason very easily - they have become so degenerated that even their very souls degraded
>>
>>57442008
>>57442018
I prefer the theory that they worship a repurposed Ius.
>>
Falmer are cool, but what Skyrim would benefit from is a much more obvious trace of great civillisation. Imagine if instead of the Reach being focused on this boring lil river, it was made an actual fjord, with a masssive dwarven dam right next to Markarth?
>>
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>>57442421
meh, they went with the scale technology allowed, PS had 256VRAM. But a more grandiose Markath would be nice to see, its my favourite town as it is, but if it actually had more shit it would be even better
>>
>>57407839
You're implying that Rogvir doesn't always die anyway.

Even if you take every effort to save him, he will just drop dead after a while.
>>
>>57442245
I don't think commonality is an issue, considering bandits account for more than 60% of Skyrim's population.
>>
Is necromancy evil?
>>
>>57441934
I don't see what you could do with Direnni ruins though, especially compared to the Aylied ruins in Oblivion.

I can see why that idea would get booted out the door fast, since fans would probably be screaming about how Oblivion didn't have Dwemer ruins so they NEEDED Dwemer ruins in Skyrim, and anyone who saw any elf-related ruins would claim Bethesda's just repeating their last game.
>>
>>57443705
>I don't see what you could do with Direnni ruins though

>As a hedge against future incursions from Skyrim, the Aldmeri fashioned the Western Reach into an impregnable bastion.
(PGE1)
Imagine an enourmous Maginot line-tier interconnected stronghold complex and tell me it ain't cool.
>>
>>57443408
Inherently? No. Is it used by evil people for evil things? Yes. But like all magic, it is a tool. Dunmer traditionally use Necromancy to raise the bones of their ancestors to protect their family tombs, for instance.
>>
>>57444027
What about Soul Trapping?
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>>57443814
>Western Reach
Which is in High Rock.
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>>57444149
I know, just saying that there could definitely be interesting things.
>>
>>57444096
Soul trapping using a white-soul gem is fine. I can't remember where I read it, but I'm recalling that normal soul gems only use the parts of the soul that would be removed in the recycling process anyway, and the Animus of the soul is sent to Aetherius. Black-soul gems on the other hand are not okay. They send the soul with all memories and emotions intact to the Soul Cairn to wander around lost for eternity.
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>>57444027
Yeah, but that's consensual necromancy. The ancestors used all consented to their souls and bodies being used after death for a period, and saw it as an honor and duty. Similarly, there's a series of books in Morrowind, and I remember them mentioning that in Cyrodiil Mages can either buy the souls of prisoners from the government, or from people who sign some agreement about how they're to be used. Literally selling your soul.
>>
>>57445105
Yeah but I assume he was referring to the age old question of "is Necromancy used for good still evil" in D&D. As The Elder Scrolls doesn't have literal manifestations of good and evil like D&D does, it depends on how it's used. A consenting body and soul used for Necromancy in D&D would be evil because Necromancy is inherently evil. A Necromancer who raises skeletons to dance a jig and serve tea is evil is D&D while they wouldn't be considered evil in The Elder Scrolls.
>>
>>57445261
>A consenting body and soul used for Necromancy in D&D would be evil because Necromancy is inherently evil
wat
So you're telling me a glorious legion of a thousand knights who bind their souls to physical forms so they can protect their people for eternity is still evil in D&D?
>>
>>57445291
If they use Necromancy and not some Divine blessing then yes, as undead in D&D give off negative energy, which ain't good stuff. Someone who knows D&D lore better than I could probably explain better.
>>
So, a few weeks ago my friends asked me about travel through "space" in Mundus from Nirn. Specifically if you could travel to Oblivion from Mundus. My understanding is that without some sort of device (like Adamamtia or some other "ship" from outside of Mundus) it's impossible to really get anywhere significant. Am I right on this or could a motivated individual who could use magic to be able to fly and "breathe" off Nirn make to the boundary between them? Could they get through if they got there?

Am I missing some important difference between the physical description of the plane and the metaphysical description of the plane?
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So I was chatting it up with some NPCs in Morrowind, and I noticed this. Specifically the last line, and how the Dunmer in this example uses the word 'human'. Is human not used specifically for Men, as in Breton/Imperial/Nord/Redguard/etc., but sentient beings?
>>57445695
I'm not sure why simply using some form of magicka-engine to propel it similar to levitation spells wouldn't work, unless there's something about the way space works in Mundus I'm not aware of.
>>
>>57446072
>Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.
>Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme.

>The human races are short-lived, socially aggressive humanoids, shorter than Elves and more technologically advanced than the Beastfolk. Warlike human cultures have subjugated their Elven and Beastfolk neighbors and synthesized their arts, literature, magick, technology, and theology into Tamriel's dominant culture -- the Empire. Obsessed with progress and destiny, human civilization constantly reinvents itself from materials plundered from conquered cultures and re-shaped by human myths and dreams.

So, it depends.
>>
>>57407839
Thanks to him (and Ulfric) so many Nord lives have been lost.
>>
>>57445695
you slam a shitload of moon sugar and bounce off a decently high hill and you can catch enough air to make it to space. this is canon.
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>>57446513
dude STOP
no stormcloak/imperial arguments
PLEASE
>>
>>57446513
>Nord lives
So nothing of value
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>>57446850
>conquer Morrowind, leave it after getting bored and deciding to fight much better opponents (other Nords)
>few thousand years later your mixed-blood progeny conquer Morrowind again with your help
>get invaded by a Daedric Prince, decide to ditch Morrowind for a while
>another thousand years later, Dunmer refugees show up, you show them mercy and give them some land and a place in your city
>they still complain
Is there any race more JUST than Dunmer?
Literally the Virgin Elf vs the Chad Nord
>>
>>57447018
Don't forget the Dunmer got invaded by one of the races they enslaved and barely considered intelligent.
>>
>>57446540
But will you stay high enough, long enough, to make it to the barrier and beyond?
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>>57426129
>I like Nords, but they lost a lot of their cool aspects in Skyrim and lots of people just think they're stupid :c
I feel like its the complete opposite actually. In Morrowind Nords are pretty much THE comic relief race, you run into them all the time standing naked in some field because they got tricked by some witch, they are basically a personification of a dumb barbar trope - boisterous, strong and dumb. Then in Oblivion the most nordic city is the biggest shithole of a town imaginable, I mean hell the Nords even sound dumb in both Morrowind and Oblivion. If anything they became a much more respectable race in Skyrim then they were outside of it

mind you I am talking about their representation in games as we actually see them, not some books about 1st era nords and atmorans
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>>57447202
Well sure, I was talking about the PGE stuff and other books.
>>
>>57445695
if a simple Levitation or Jump spell was enough why would the Empire and Aldmer bother with spaceships? Though one way of travelling to the moons is getting super high on moon sugar, at least thats how the Khajit do it, I am not sure if non-khajit are capable of it though, after all it was a role given to them by Azura

>>57447252
fair enough
>>
>>57447018
>conquer Morrowind, get driven out by Dunmer and their neckbeard frenemies because your dumb heretic king got slaughtered by merlets and shit went south
>few thousand years later your mixed-blood progeny can't conquer Morrowind and has to incorporate it on their own terms, meanwhile an avatar of one of your greatest heroes who advocated fucking Dunmer over gets backstabbed by a manmerlet
>get invaded by a Daedric Prince, decide to get some Redoran clay immediately after, with obvious results, even despite Morrowind getting colonydropped
>another thousand years later, some faggot Dunmer cowards show up instead of helping others to rebuild the province
>you go full EU and let them in, get mad when they complain anyway
>>
>>57446667
I'm sorry. Can I delete my post? I've never tried it before. But you've made me see that there could be dire consequences for the thread.
>>
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>>57447791
>already started a nord/elf shitflinging debate
it's too late
>>
>>57447962
Nine forgive!
>>
I am a bit confused in timelines here, if I understand correctly the nords already had the dragon cult when they came from Atmora right? If so why didn't the dragons help them conquer Tamriel? I don't think we ever hear of the dragon involvement in the wars with Falmer, in fact the rebellion against the Dragons seems to happen after the falmer are driven underground
>>
>>57448245
on a slightly related note, one of the redoran guards on Solstheim says this
>I've heard that dragons have been seen in the skies over Morrowind. I'll believe it when I see it for myself
so apparently its not just Skyrim that dragons have returned to
>>
I read on the wiki that during the oblivion crisis the deadra generals closed all gates because argonians started invading them. Can somebody elaborate, forgive my ignorance I've only just started truly diving into the lore.
>>
>>57448931
It comes from the ES books:
>"Martin and the Empire didn't beat Dagon in Black Marsh, the An-Xileel did. When the gates opened, Argonians poured into Oblivion with such fury and might, Dagon's lieutenants had to close them."
>>
>>57448931
Don't fuck with the Hist.
>>
>>57448931
Basically, the Hist learned what Dagon was planning, so it sent a call to all the Argonians to please come back to Black Marsh to prepare. Whoever decided to heed the call was then rallied by the Argonians of An-Xileel to prepare for the invasion, many of the fighters even granted outstanding power by the Hist for the battle ahead. Once the gates appeared, they swarmed with such ferocity, they even began to pour into the gates and fight the battles from within, making the dremora pretty scared. So they closed the gates to prevent things getting worse for them.
>>
>>57448311
Morrowind borders Skyrim. And it'd have to be border Morrowind since the centre's an uninhabitable crater.
>>
>>57449035
>many of the fighters even granted outstanding power by the Hist for the battle ahead.
Okay THAT part's news to me.
What kinds of outstanding power?
>>
>>57448931
During the events of Oblivion, the Hist of Black Marsh called back the Argonians throughout all of Tamriel. This was a gentle call back, one where they just felt an urge to return to Black Marsh, not an outright calling back.

When most of the Argonians returned they organized and flooded Oblivion Gates as they opened, overwhelming the Daedra on the other side. This happened so frequently that the Daedra have up opening gates in Black Marsh.
>>
>>57449093
"A few twelves of years ago, our country was invaded from Oblivion. The Hist knew it was going to happen, and called our people back to Black Marsh. Many of us were altered, made ready for the war that we had to fight. Made stronger, faster—able to endure terrible things. ..."
- Lord of Souls
>>
>>57449093
stuff like the ability to not shut down in cold weather. While completely unnoticeable while fighting in Oblivion, this proved very useful about two hundred years later, when a bunch of Argonians decided to go to Skyrim for some reason. Mostly to mug people, by the looks of things.
>>
>>57449093
I'm pretty sure the Hist is capable of physically changing Argonians by like, a large degree. If I recall right there are some fuckhuge Hist-upgraded Argonians in ESO. Which is to be taken with a grain of salt, but I like that bit of lore so I accept it.
>>
What is the Hist?
>>
>>57449168
Cute tree aliens.
>>
>>57449137
Sooooooooooo about these 'dragon' sightings in Morrowind...
>>
>>57449168
Imagine if the grandma from Pocahontas was written by Lovecraft.
>>
>>57449168
Sentient trees that alter the Argonians to their liking using their sap. They're arguably from a previous Kalpa, making them non-native to Tamriel and thus"alien". There's little hard evidence that I know of to support that, but that's the story we've all learned.
>>
From the playable races Argonians seem to be one of the most interesting
>>
>>57449183
>>57449215
>>57449246
Did the Hist create the Argonians or just enslaved a native race from Tamriel?
>>
>>57449268
They seem to have uplifted some regular ass tree lizards.
>>
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>>57449251
For me, they definitely are. Though I'm incredibly biased. While there's no way it'll happen, I wish the next TES would be set in Black Marsh. Though I think I might have to settle for ESO with Shadowfen and the upcoming Murkmire.
>>
>>57449268
Unknown, their lore's purposefully vague. Best bet going IIRC is that they hyper-evolved the endemic lizards that fed on their sap.
>>
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>>57449251
They're the most mysterious. Even Orcs & Khajiit are just wackier varieties of elf, whatever Argonians are it's totally alien to the established norm.
>>
>>57449289
that's my favorite kind of lizard
>>
>>57448931
That one guy wrote some official fanfics
>>
>>57449387
>Complain about worship of "false gods"
>hail Sithis
>>
>>57449470
Sithis gave them shadowscales though.
>>
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>>57449093
>>
>>57449670
They are all dead now
>>
>>57450044
;_;
>>
>>57450175
That reminds me, I'm really annoyed the Argonian characters keep dying in Dark Brotherhood questlines. Cripes.
>>
How does the Last Dragonborn not being a Norde makes any sense?
>>
>>57450521
I know, they are always the best too. I don't remember much about the one in Oblivion but in Skyrim he was probably the most chill guy there. In ESO the guy was kind of a dick but that's just cause you're the new guy and thought you might touch his books. Eventually he got used to you just before he dies
>>
>>57450641
Exactly. Venom-Tongue was really the only DB member I cared about in the ESO questline so it was really annoying that he died.
>>
>>57450638
why would he be a nord? you could argue that a non-man Shezzarine is odd, and you'd be right to some extent. But I don't see any reason an aspect of Akatosh MUST be a Nord
>>
I previously heard something about Hermaeus Mora having some relation to Akatosh, that true?
>>
>>57450986
Mora is Lorkhan
>>
>>57451004
Oh, that sounds interesting. Would you be able to tell me more?
>>
>>57441934
The Dwemer living in Morrowind and Hammerfell but not the province inbetween would be a bit odd desu
>>
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>>57450986
Hermaeus is an Elder Scroll gone awry.
>>
>>57451290
The whole point of Hammerfell Dwemer is that they fucked off to live away.
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>>57449075
no it isn't, they've already rebuilt m8.
>>
>>57451577
Neato.
>>
>>57450986
Well, he seems to really like Dragonborns
>>
>>57450521
The Dark Brotherhood is always fated to die horribly because Mephala is still mad at them.
>>
>>57452223
I mean the Argonians specifically.
>>
>>57408152
>>57408145
>>57408131
>>57408116
Why does all this read like a katana meme for Dunmer?
>>
>>57453166
Which one?
>>
So are the Ordinators all Indoril or do they just use their armor and have a heavy Indoril presence?
>>
>>57453258
-
>>57408116
>>
>>57453258
Ordinators can be from any House. However, the majority are Indoril so the armor has come to bear their name.
>>
>>57445105
That skeleton looks really pleased with his role as posthumous murderbot
>>
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>>57455364
What a nerd.




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