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Why do you guys hate him so much?
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>>57406358
Because he's a dumb faggot, next question.
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>>57406358

I don't hate him, I just think his work is shit.

>Chaos
>Noble, brave, honourable, loyal warriors, fighting against the malevolent Imperium to bring peace to the galaxy
>Peace being manifesting a nightmare, eldritch, hell dimension to torture all living beings and then their souls for all eternity

>The Emperor
>Evil, abominable hell tyrant

>Space Marines
>Frenzied evil enforcers of the Imperium

Again I don't hate him, I just think he's a contrarian hack whose work I'll never ever read again
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>>57406403
>>57406407
So, /tg/ are butthurt Emprah fanboys? Got it
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>>57406449
Yep, it's literally strawmen.
The problem is that the fanbase consists of autists who never realized Emperor is more Torquemada than Leto II.
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>>57406358
He shitposts on /tg/ as Carnac
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>>57406358
I like him. He gives the traitor legions a bit of depth rather than just being mustache twirling villains. Not everything he's written is great (I'm not a fan of his interpretation of the Emperor but then again the whole of BL seems to be trying to shit on Emps) but he stands out from the average bolter porn.
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>>57406358

All Black Library writers are shit, honestly. It's shiterature and terrible pulpy garbage.

That said, I'm submitting a story to their shitty contest where only Games Workshop personnel get chosen. Seems fun.
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>>57406449
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>>57406407
He sounds like a leftest soyboy.
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>>57406358
He ranges from readable pulp to complete garbage. The First Heretic was decent, but Betrayer and Master of Mankind were horrible. He's obviously not a stylist and the writing is dry, but what kills him is his crippling inability to write not even a human being, but a 2D persona. Every character he wrote is either bland or one dimensional, Angron is just angry and has daddy issues, Lorgar is evil and religious, the Emperor a total idiot, who is somehow supposed to be an empire forging psychic warlord. Reading his novels makes the HH seem like a joke and this is with the low expectations one has for any fan fiction.
Abnett is the only decent BL author, he manages to be fast paced and entertaining, sticking to traditional pulp forms (spy novel, detective novel) with 40k aesthetics.
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They're mad he pisses on benevolent mary sue emperor despite that never having been a thing. /tg/ is just easily rustled.
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>>57406752
The baby rage directed at Abnett by Legion and Prospero Burns when they came out tells me that you're wrong. nu/tg/ latches onto Abnett so they can have a good BL writer/bad BL writer (ADB or whoever in this case) dichotomy.
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>>57406789
Pointing out that the Emperor was actually evil is one thing, but BL nowadays makes him out to be an absolute moron. That diminishes the setting no matter what side you're a fan of. And frankly Chaos fans calling anything else evil is ridiculous on its face.
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>>57406752
Mostly right except
>Abnett
>fast paced
Not until the last 10 pages
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>>57406839
Chaos is evil too, Chaos fans acknowledge reality. The whole conflict is like Skeletor vs Hordak which has happened countless times and everyone who knows anything about Masters of the Universe knows both are evil.
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>>57406898
This "both sides are wrong" garbage ADB peddles is bullshit.

The Emperor being evil? Sure. But by comparison, the other side at its core is literally fighting to turn the galaxy into a hellscape where humankind is doomed to suffer at the whims of eldritch gods from another dimension. It's a false-equivalency. The Emperor is a bad dude, but the other side is incomparably worse in every way. Life under the Emperor for a normal human is frankly not that bad. Great even, by the standards of the setting. Life under Chaos is constant suffering and degradation.
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>>57406960
That normal human living under the emperor exists for a blip and then he goes into the eldritch dimension for all eternity. The Emperor lied to them all too, and didn't tell every time they're ambitious or angry or sad they're making the eldritch gods more powerful. The only non-hypocritical way to live in warhammer, and the only way to have even a chance to not get molested by wild daemons, is to follow the Path of Glory. It's still evil but Emperor is denying it to his subjects.
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>>57406832
Everyone in BL is bad, it's fan fiction. It's just that Abnett makes it readable and doesn't make it insultingly stupid.
But you don't read the BL because you want quality literature, you read it because you want passable entertainment.
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>>57406851
Eisenhorn had a decent pacing to it. Maybe because it takes no concentration so you can easily read 80 pages/h.
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>>57407077
What is quality literature? I can't even start reading Tolkien's LotR, because of its fuckawful beginning.
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>>57407119
That's retardation on your side. Lotr is an incredibly easy going novel and very comfy at that.
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>>57407211
Nah lol
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>>57407119
Read some Dickens.
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>>57407119
What's bad about the beginning of LotR?
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>>57407355
Ulysses is the only thing a thinking man reads in his life.
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>>57407119
Go to the library, then the Literature section.
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>>57407395
>see outdated trash you are forced to read in school
Wew
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>>57406501
>The problem is that the fanbase consists of autists who never realized Emperor is more Torquemada than Leto II.
the emperor... is more an inquisitor who commits holocaust for religious reasons..... than a god-like being who has clairvoyance and is ready to sacrifice all to set humanity on a path of supremacy?


yeah you dumb
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>>57407408
The whole point of quality literature is that it transcends time. But it takes some effort to read, making it impossible for brainlets to consume.
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>>57407409
Wrong Torquemada (or is it?)
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>>57407380
200 pages on fucking hobbits and the virtues tobacco, the latter being mostly completely irellevant to the plot.
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>>57407518
That comic was a major inspiration for 40K so that's hardly coincidence
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>>57406358
>e-celeb thread
>>>/trash/
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>>57407393
If you read only one book in your life, you are not a thinking man.
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>>57406673
Try reading his books rather than falling for the memes. ADB’s chaos is definently vile and evil, and he does a good job explaining why people might still be tempted by it.
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>>57407567
It's relevant to the work itself, you are just incapable of looking beyond the plot. The whole point is that the hobbits are a small and virtuous people without much power defeat the dark lord. The atmosphere it creates in the beginning is exactly what makes Frodo a tragic character and it mimics the experience Tolkien had when returning from WWI, hinting at PTSD and a loss of innocence.
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>>57407688
But he is a leftist soyboy, even if he does that part reasonably well.
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You know the Emperor? That guy who literally saved the human race? That guy who made the Imperium to protect humankind from xenos and chaos. That guy who sacrificed himself so that humanity may survive, and is being tortured for 10k years just so that humankind would persist and remain?
Yeah, what a fucking asshole and a badguy.
But remember those traitor space marines? Yeah, they're the good guys and saving everyone by trying to feed humankind to hell abominations.
>ADB
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>>57407733
The emperor fed the human race to Chaos by making a pact with the Chaos Gods for power to conquer the galaxy and is directly responsible for Abaddon, Horus and all the other traitors. Human race in the form of Interex, Adrantis and so on existed without him and would still exist in 41st millennium without him.

Only brainlets fall for in-universe propaganda.
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>>57407487
>transcends time
More like circlejerking assholes who dedicate which books are important or not

>>57407690
>making up memes and headcanon shit so fucking hard you defend shitty writing
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>>57406673
>>57407733
Are IG players this cringy irl? Do they unironically browse /pol/ as well?
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>>57407708
>But he is a leftist soyboy

At what point in any of his books does this come up? Why does this in any way prevent you from reading his books?
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>>57407786
>IG players
Fuck off, ADB, go back to your reddit cuckshed.
>>57407768
The shitty retcons are exactly the reason why people hate ADB and HH series here. Also even considering nu-canon, most of the shit you've written is wrong.
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>>57407876
>run
>implying Bobby Kotick knows shit about Destiny outside of it printing money
>he brings up /pol/
That's why you're a laughing stock, ADB. You're delusional.
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>>57407913
>gets triggered when I mentioned IG
C r i n g e
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>>57407948
>"If I say it enough time it will become real"
Nice arguing, ADB.
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>>57407948
Do you have that IG image?

>>57407913
The guys who made the fluff up are still running GW. You think Alpha Legion having two Primarchs was invented for the HH series?
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>>57407688
>ADB’s chaos is definently vile and evil, and he does a good job explaining why people might still be tempted by it.

Nah, his portrayal of both Abaddon and the temptation by the chaos gods in Soul Hunter was utter shit.
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>>57407979
holy shit the irony on your post lmao
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>>57407823
Like I've said, his soyboyism is besides the point, he's a bad author regardless.
He does irrationally dislike organised religion and authority, which is the source of his stupid retcons. But if he did the same for any other reason it wouldn't have made any difference.
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>>57407773
I'm not sure how you not grasping something simple makes the writing of Lotr bad.
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>>57406407
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>>57408040
There are no retcons in Horus Heresy, the introduction of lore is mandated by GW. The fact that the writers say as much without being fired or sanctioned in anyway should have shut up the brainlets who go "muh poor GW is having their floof retconned by contract authors,".
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>>57408040
>Like I've said, his soyboyism is besides the point, he's a bad author regardless.

The why bring it up?

>He does irrationally dislike organised religion and authority, which is the source of his stupid retcons. But if he did the same for any other reason it wouldn't have made any difference.

As I see it he is anti-authoritarian, not anti-authority. I don't know if he's anti-organised religion more than all of 40K is. The ecclesiarchy is hardly ever portrayed in a wholly positive light, being based on the worst tendencies from real world religion and all.
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I don't hate him :3
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>>57406358
He seems to have a lot of daddy issues
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>>57406594
>He gives the traitor legions a bit of depth rather than just being mustache twirling villains.
But that's the problem. 40k is a ironic setting, trying to create depth in a setting like that will just ruin what made it fun
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>>57406501
>Emperor is more Torquemada than Leto
Not... really? unless you're only looking at the modern incarnation.
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>>57406673
So like every other GW writer then
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Meant him at a Warhammer World open day once, I was playing a game and the black library panel was just behind the tables, he came over to observe, and he asked why all my Dark Angels were pale white guys. I said it fits the theme of knights who who are on a repentant mission so being pale fit them as obssessive plus knights were a mostly northern Europe thing and he said this isn't medieval though its 40k which fine, I guess it is but I wanted to fit a theme, its my dudes.

Thats what put me off him, who cares what colour I paint them, its a fucking table top. I even have some black cultists for my WE but because I wanted some variaton
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>>57408400
Pale white as armour or pale white as race?
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>>57408381
Well yes.
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>>57406358
Because he flat out stated that my faction won.
Have you ever seen people play a wargame where one player control some Al Quaida Terrorists and the other player is the Americans and literally controls drones that are free to blow up the Towel-heads at no risk to themselves? Where it's basically a 100% one-sided shooting gallery?
No you don't, because that would be a boring garbage premise for a wargame.
And that's what 40k is now for Daemon players like me. We won the fucking setting and as a result all tension is gone.
Why bother going on Black Crusades? Daemons don't die, Daemons don't age, at this point it's literally just self indulgence.

"Rage against the dying of the light" may sound nice and all and may work well for a story where you have only one point of view, but it takes an incredibly amount of retardation to apply this theme to a wargame where one side is the dying of the light because you basically turn half your player base into set dressing for the other half.
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>>57408376
Originally DA's were Native Americans, then they became gay anglos in space.
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>>57408376
>inb4 he didn't actually mean it
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>>57408376
>Emps is the single most potent psyker in human history
>perhaps only outclassed by the old ones or first generation eldar
>incapable of repairing his body
>unable to spin new flesh from the warp's infinite power
I'm sure theres an obvious answer to this. But why didn't he do this before his mind fractured to the 4 winds?
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>>57408442
That's how GW rolls is.
1st Edition WHFB rulebook says all gods are Chaos and Chaos will win, and 6th edition Hordes of Chaos also said all gods are actually Chaos. Didn't stop people from enjoying it.
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>>57408376
Wtf I love the emperor now
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>>57408204
>As I see it he is anti-authoritarian, not anti-authority
He's a fucking idiot. The point of 40k is that EVERY option is horrible, turning the actually slightly more horrible faction into noble renegades because you're butthurt about Nazis misses the point completely.
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>>57408446
that's not entirely true, one of their recruitment worlds is filled with the decedents of native american colonists. But yeah the native american thing was a pretty important bit of DA lore even the "Deathwing" was a reference to it until the HH retconned it
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>>57408467
How popular do you think Chaos-happy-play-endtime was?
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>>57408427
White race, I should clarify.
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>>57408467
Ever wonder why WHFB never was as popular as 40k? Because 40k had more people with a viable win condition. Basically only sadists and autists played Fantasy.
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>>57408458
I did mean it. The fluff books are full of propaganda and embellisment. Alpha Legion did have two primarchs in the early 90's, Abnett mentioned in an interview that GW had been holding onto that bit for a long time before they told him to put it in a book.

With the Emperor, he's always been the dude we see in the Last Church. He made a deal with Chaos for ultimate power and thought to use it for his own ends, and weaved a mystique of omnipotence about himself. But in truth his ability was not enough to repair his body, to answer >>57408460, or more crucially to throw back the daemon invasion of his webway.
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>>57408502
That is an extremely specific reason as to why you think 40k is more popular. The reality is likely more simple.
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>>57408479
The execution was bad, not the idea.
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>>57408470
Well it's a cold, blunt fact. If mankind is to thrive it must first become powerful enough that the warp holds no great peril to it. But evolution takes time and the necessary oppression of the species slows that down even more
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>>57408502
>Because 40k had more people with a viable win condition

No. It's the same all over.
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>>57408522
It's a distillation, but true. 40k's aesthetics and factions are more refined and more interesting.

>>57408528
Were you around for the Storm of Chaos campaigns and how pissed off people were when GW fiated the whole thing?
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>>57408497
That's maximum soyboy level. Indeed, it's your dudes, there aren't racial quotas for miniat yet.
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>>57408471
>He's a fucking idiot. The point of 40k is that EVERY option is horrible,
In your opinion.

>turning the actually slightly more horrible faction into noble renegades because you're butthurt about Nazis misses the point completely.
I don't think he presents chaos as the good option. Everyone who messes with chaos ends up some degree of fucked. He does however present the renegade marines as being more complex than just 'the bad guys'. This doesn't make them sympathetic IMO, just more rounded. His protagonists are still terrible people who do horrible stuff, but you understand their reasons for doing it, even if these reasons wouldn't resonate with us, the readers.

I don't understand what you are talking about in regards to nazis?
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>>57408471
I don't mind that too much, other than edgelords people rarely think of them selves as the "bad guy"

I remember an old White Dwarf when Andy Chambers talking about the 2nd ed chaos Codex when it came out that he wanted to portray the faction as angry, bitter and feeling betrayed rather than inherently evil
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>>57408567
whiny chaos is and always has been worst chaos
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>>57408554
>Were you around for the Storm of Chaos campaigns and how pissed off people were when GW fiated the whole thing?

Again, bad execution and Storm of Chaos wasn't meant to end the setting. It was meant to create a new status quo. GW said so themselves. Why are you like this?
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>>57408560
The general arc of BL's HH series has been extremely generous to the fallen legions whilst shitting constantly on the Emperor for basically everything he did at any point.
It's not that the traitors are rounded, it is they are being fed "It wasn't MY fault" excuses.
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>>57406358
I enjoy his books, but I have no opinion on him personally.
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>>57408574
eh not whiney so much as relatable, he wanted them to have a reason to fall to the predations of Chaos beyond being just bad dudes.
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>>57408575
>Why are you like this?
Why are you lying so wilfully? The global campaigns clearly showed people don't give a fuck about Chaos OR about the "Chaos is the big bad" narrative. It's literally the disconnected writers clique at GW who want to push that narrative.

>>57408560
>In your opinion.
Have you read anything related to 40k? At all? Even the video games?

>Everyone who messes with chaos ends up some degree of fucked
Absolutely, but ADB has a clear trend to represent the setting's villains as clear dindu nuffins by intentionally leaving out their more horrific characteristics, adding sympathy character's like the Word Bearer's confessor woman as cheap emotional catalysts and generally present them as making terrible decisions and being fucked over by chaos as a direct consequence of the Imperium/The Emperor/Loyalists/Authority being evil.

The Word Bearer's and Night Lords' books are a great example of this.
Just compare Betrayer or First Heretic to Dark Apostle. Even though the latter actually has slightly worse prose (which is probably ADB's on area of any competence), the characters, plot and overall feel of Reynold's is so far superior it's not even funny.

>>57408608
Again, Reynold's rendition off the Word Bearer's is both more evil and far superior than ADB's. The tragic misunderstood victims who are good at heart and got thrown under the tracks by the evil evil authoritah so they had to turn to other masters is a narrative that fits maybe the Thousand Sons on it only does so because they also have their hubris to prevent this from becoming one-sided.
Pushing the story for Lorgar or the Night Lords just cheapens everything that actually gave them texture before.
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>>57408608
That's stupid. They were just bad dudes. That is why they turned against the Emperor. Trying to justify that is retarded because in the end you will always have to deal with the fact that they betrayed the one guy who was objectively the best leader for humanity.
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>>57408659
>But the forces of Chaos were not quite so easily beaten. The whispered to the Primarchs from the warp, disturbing their dreams with promises of power, appealing to their pride, their martial prowess, and their courage. No single Primarch was wholly resistant to these unspoken temptations. The character of each was sorely tested, and fully half of them failed that test. So subtle was their temptation that they never even suspected how thier own loyalties were changing.

>For example, Mortarion Primarch of the Death Guard Legion fully belived that he was the herald of a new age of justice. Angron of the World Eaters genuinly thought that he alone could save humanity from destruction. Horus too, the greatest Primarch of all, was convinced of the virtue of the martial ideas for which he fought.

>>57408659
>>57408657
The point isn't whether they actually were betrayed but that they thought they were
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>>57408657
>Why are you lying so wilfully? The global campaigns clearly showed people don't give a fuck about Chaos OR about the "Chaos is the big bad" narrative. It's literally the disconnected writers clique at GW who want to push that narrative.

No, I didn't lie. I just said that SOC was not meant to end the setting. We have an archive interview of the writer Gav Thorpe telling us that it's not meant to end the setting. It was meant to create the status quo of which 7th ED would be built around.

The SoC was poorly received because some factions got shafted and because of of infamous ending.

Everything else you said is a fabrication and doesn't have any relevancy.
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>>57408657
>Just compare Betrayer or First Heretic to Dark Apostle
Or the night lords trilogy to Lord of the Night.
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>>57408683
That's from the codex. Off what a burn. Sure showed that guy was talking out of his ass.
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>>57408608
>>57408567
Oh and to add to >>57408657

You CAN'T write your primarchs like those poor misguided creatures who got driven from one abusive master to the next and just want their justified revenge because every plot like that is literally invalidated by all the loyalist Primarchs who lived under the same conditions and didn't fall to Chaos like autists. Trying to justify their fall just turns them from self-determined rebels into weak willed puppets.

Again, Magnus is probably the only one where that narrative works because he actually endured very different circumstances than his brothers and even then he did plenty wrong and is a nuanced character.

>>57408683
>The point isn't whether they actually were betrayed but that they thought they were
It's ridiculous. Moving the decision to fall from the Primarchs just turns them into cardboard pushovers. If ADB wanted to give nuance to the Traitors maybe he should have written them as capable people making their own decision and play up the angle of actual independence compared to the loyalists instead of writing them as emotionally stunted babies who need Chaos plot armour to even wipe their own asses.

>>57408703
ADB's Night Lords are the pirates who don't do anything.
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>>57408683
Chaos turned them by playing on the things that made them shitty. Trying to portray that as a justification is retarded because it always comes back to the fact that the Emperor was clearly the best leader for humanity and that if they wanted what was good for humanity they should have followed him. Saying that they thought that betraying the Emperor would "herald a new age of justice" or "save humanity from destruction" just shows that they were either insane or subhumanly stupid, because it was obvious that no leader could be better for humanity than the Emperor.
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>>57408703
Desu Lord of Night was kino
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>>57408739
>>57408737
>>57408683
Fuck, to add to that AGAIN:

It was actually the LOYALISTS who were the independent and pro-active party during the Heresy. As soon as the Emps fucks off, the Traitors immediately find a new sugar daddy (or find one as soon as the Emps told him to stop being a retard in Lorgar's case). Meanwhile the Loyalists are intelligent enough to keep doing what they're already doing on their own.
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>>57408659
You got to realise that nobody who knew the Emperor personally (before he became all glowy and shiney) liked him. Pius who is the most righteous dude in the galaxy DISTASTES the Emperor and calls him "the thing they call Emperor". If things aren't so dire, he wouldn't waste a second on that bastard. Alivia Sureka sweetest Milf ever to live hates the Emperor for creating the Space Marines in all their monstrosity. Both them sided with the Emperor and helped him to fulfil his quest across the ages because "they" were much worse than him. He is an asshole but the Chaos Gods are on a whole other level. If the Chaos Gods didn't exist or weren't as aggressive, then Alivia and Pius would have probably fought against the Emperor and his evil.
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>>57406358
ultramarines wank to the detriment of every other chapter and the game at large
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>>57406358
Who is this and why should i care?
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>>57408775
>You got to realise that nobody who knew the Emperor personally (before he became all glowy and shiney) liked him.
Black library retcons that chaosfags inserted because they wanted to feel justify in rebelling against daddy.
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>>57408737
ADB's Night Lords wreck Imperial astropaths and space travel in a huge section of space by torturing a shitload of imperial civilians to death. It's the greatest atrocity they do in books which portray them post-Heresy.

Cruddace's Night Lords are the ones IG players prefer, bumbling morons whose lord is strangled by Straken with a root.
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>>57406358
All I see is some random dude with a storm bolter. Someone explain why I should care.
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>>57408800
No, these are three dudes (counting John-G too) who are noble souls that are willing to die for the Emperor despite all of them hating his guts because unlike Imperial sheeple they truly fight for mankind. Not the Emperor's vision mankind, but mankind itself. These guys are heroes that should be respected.
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>>57408739
I rather have personal enmity towards the Emperor as a reason for betrayal than the "we're here to save humanity from destruction". The latter falls apart for me because those against the Emperor made little to no attempt to present that they were going to create something better than the current situation.

Overall Horus's fall and the whole Horus Heresy could have been done a lot better.
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>>57408775
>people blame HH lore
>he uses HH lore to justify his point
>he brings up the fucking perpetual bullshit
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>>57408739
The Emperor is the worst, and the traitors are all his fault. Without the Emperor there would be no Horus or Lorgar or Heresy, Kor Phaeron would have died an irrelevant cultist in some backwater and Interex & co would still exist.
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>>57408833
HH fluff is canon, the only canon in fact. Did you think Sensei are real? Or Solkan?
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>>57408833
>perpetual

They are the best parts of the HH. These guys see the Emperor without all the bullshit. They are not predisposed to hate the Emperor since they are very resistant to Chaos nor does the bullshit of the Emperor's manipulation work on them. They give us an objective view of the Emperor, being companions and peers of the Emperor.
>>
The new daemon codex shows that the Emperor was the guy who provoked the Chaos Gods.

>Rise of the Emperor

>The mysterious figure known as the Emperor rises upon Terra, and unites the techno-barbarian tribes. As the Unification Wars come to a close, he turns his mind to grander ambitions, and genetically engineers the Primarchs of the Space Marine Legions. As the Emperor’s creations near fruition, Tzeentch senses a chain of events that would one day cause the downfall of the Chaos Gods. Influenced by the master schemer, the dark powers seize the nascent Primarchs from the Emperor’s sanctum, casting them across the galaxy.
>>
Seriously fuck captcha couldn't start a thread for this but this thread is good enough to post this. MoM excerpts followed by the afterword :

>The Emperor turned to him, His eyes focusing on the Custodian for the first time. ‘The war is over, Diocletian. Win or lose, Horus has damned us all. Mankind will share in his ignorance until the last man or woman draws the species’ last breath. The warp will forever be a cancer in the heart of all humans. The Imperium may last a hundred years, or a thousand, or ten thousand. But it will fall, Diocletian. It will fall. The shining path is lost to us. Now we rage against the dying of the light.’

>‘It cannot be this way.’ Diocletian stepped forwards, teeth clenched. ‘It cannot.’

>The Emperor tilted His head. ‘No? What then do you intend to do, Custodian? How will you – with your spear and your fury and your loyalty – pull fate itself from its repeating path?’

>‘We will kill Horus.’ Diocletian stared at his defeated monarch, illuminated in emberish light of the lumoglobe in his hand. ‘And after the war, we can begin anew. We can purge the webway. The Unifiers can rebuild all that was lost, even if it takes centuries. We will strike Horus down and–’

>‘I will face the Sixteenth,’ the Emperor interrupted, distracted once more by the machine graveyard. ‘But there will come another to take his place. I see that now. It is the way of things. The enemy will never abate. Another will come, one who will doubtless learn from Horus’ errors of faith and judgement.’

>‘Who, my king?’

>The Emperor shook His head. ‘There is no way to know. And for now it is meaningless. But remember it well – we are not the only ones learning from this conflict. Our enemies grow wiser, as well.’

>Diocletian refused to concede. ‘You are the Emperor of Mankind. We will conquer any who come against us. After the war, we will rebuild under your guidance.’
>>
>>57408925
>The Emperor stared at him. He spoke a question that wasn’t a question, one that brooked no answer.

>‘And what if I am gone, Diocletian.’

>The Custodian had no answer. Thunder pealed above them, shaking the cavern and jarring loose a rattling hail of falling pebble-dust.

>‘My king, what now? What comes next?’

>The Emperor turned away, walking into the darkness of the cavern while the storm hammered the dead city so far above. He spoke three words that no Custodian had ever heard Him speak before.

>‘I don’t know.’
>>
>>57408883
Necrons and Old Ones would give us an unbiased view of the Emperor, Perpetuals have been buddies for too long. Except that Damon guy but the Cabal might be pawns of Tzeentch so not really.
>>
>>57408739
>Trying to justify their fall just turns them from self-determined rebels into weak willed puppets.
but they ARE (relatively) weak willed puppets, that the whole point. The exemplify the whole "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" schtick. And then after falling and realising they've been tricked they seethe and brood and blame everyone but themselves. The only two who have any redeemable features after that are Magnus who seems to have some modicum of self awareness and Curze who has the common decency to die

>>57408739
>because it was obvious that no leader could be better for humanity than the Emperor.
well it clearly wasn't obvious was it. Have you never believed a lie? Ever
>>
>>57408939
Pius and Alivia have nothing to do with the Cabal. They are natural.
>>
Afterword :

>The war is over. Humanity has lost. Warhammer 40,000 – in all its Gothic, towering, Cyclopean, decrepit, doomed, rotting Byzantine majesty – has taken its first irrevocable step.

>Oh, the Horus Heresy isn’t quite over yet. Horus’s ambitions haven’t dried up and vanished, and the Imperium still has to deal with the Chaos-deluded primarch making his way to Terra, but the malignant forces of the warp have achieved their ultimate aim. Humanity’s chance to free itself of the warp has been lost. No matter what happens from now on, no matter how hard the Imperium fights against itself, against its enemies, the laughter of mad gods will echo behind the veil.

>But this isn’t news to you, I’m sure. The central tenet of Warhammer 40,000 has always been the pitting of humankind against itself, the oldest lore hearkening back to that angelic rebellion called the Horus Heresy, where humanity began its long, inevitable decline. Warhammer 40,000 has always been about how the centre cannot hold; about raging against the dying of the light.

>The Imperium of the Dark Millennium, ten thousand years after the Heresy, can’t beat its foes. That was never on the cards. Warhammer 40,000 is the kind of setting where your sins risk breeding very real daemons, where so much knowledge has been lost or sealed away as heretical or dangerous, and above all: where humankind devours itself, day by day, feeding thousands of psykers into the soul-engines of the Golden Throne to maintain the last flicker of the Emperor’s divine will. This is a species sacrificing its future for its present, destroying its own evolution into a psychic race because to evolve, to ascend, is to shine like a beacon to the creatures of the underworld.
>>
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>>57408974
>Almost every xenos threat besieging the dying Imperium of Man would be enough, on its own, to eventually seal the empire’s fate – yet one damnation takes thematic primacy and always has. Predatory alien hordes endlessly eat away at the Imperium’s borders, but it’s the taint of Chaos that holds a blade to the throat of every man, woman, and child.

>The Emperor knew this. Freeing humanity from reliance – heck, from as much contact as possible – with the warp was the species only chance at long-term survival. With the death of that dream comes the long, drawn-out death rattle of the species.

>What a cheery thought.

Do you agree, teegee?
>>
>>57408967
I didn't say they had.
>>
>>57408994
My bad. Too distracted to read.
>>
>>57408989
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zFAvzf0Mv0
>>
>>57408467
Well seeing as how GW can and will retcon anything at any time it's safe to say it may be subject to change.
>>
>>57409052
Chaos is the same in both settings and so far has behaved just like depicted in that old depiction, namely inevitably advancing.
>>
I really don't mind him, he's average at best but I'm fine with chaos being portrayed in a sympathetic light. Chaos aren't just puppy kicking nazis as a whole, nor are the Imperium, balance is definitely needed showing things from different angles. I don't even understand the hate for wanting to show the Emperor as less than perfect.
>>
>>57408974
Here's my 2 cents. Isn't humanity evolving into a psychic race? By freeing it from the warp, wouldn't he also basically condemn humanity to stagnation and decrepitude? Human souls are in the warp, and there's that part from the 3E Necron Codex describing how humans severed from the warp are basically shuffling zombies, all mindless and with no spark animating them. So was the Emperor's bing plan to destroy humanity anyway?
>>
>>57408879
the only canon are everything directly published by GW
black library is fan-fiction at best, their books have and will be retcon as GW make new lore
>>
>>57409207

No. The God-Emperor is basically the 'perfected' form of humanity, and he knows that humanity has the potential to become powerful as him. The Chaos Gods prey on psykers, and are implied to have made a pact with the God-Emperor at some point.

Basically, the God-Emperor's plan is to kill off / seal away the predators that would corrupt or destroy humanity before they could reach their full potential.
>>
>>57406358
>you guys
It's just the part of /tg/ that dislikes what he and Goulding did with the Horus Skubery. If there's anything he could be somewhat objectively hated for, it's the Horus Skubbery sealing the 40k fandom's fate as the worst fandom to talk about their setting with. Not that we weren't already on the way beforehand.
>>
>>57406358
He makes big changes to preexisting lore that heavily favor his preferred faction at the expense of everything else, as well as making his favorite characters awesome and cool to the point of borderline parody.
>>
>>57409207
Successfully guide humanity through their physic evolution so they don't explode and then use Webway to wean humanity off the Warp until their Warp abilities disappear
>>
>>57409360
But their souls are in the warp. How can he undo that?
>>
>>57409207
Human interaction with the warp is pretty inconsistent but I think E's plan was to starve the gods into irrelevance so that humanity could ascend unmolested. The whole warp is chaos and chaos is the gods thing kind of puts the kaibosh on that though
>>
>>57409219
Black Library is GW and the "GW lore guys" dictate what BL writes.
>>
>>57409249
>and are implied to have made a pact with the God-Emperor
I'm curious what type of pact could they possibly make with him and why Horus didn't end up as strong after making a pact with the gods (iirc the Emperor was still much stronger than Horus and could have easily struck Horus down when they fought but didn't until he thought Horus was irredeemable).
>>
>>57409249
No. Emperor is a mutant who got loads of power by making a deal with Chaos Gods. He tried to cheat them and hide humans from Chaos Gods in the webway, and it failed.
>>
>>57407733
>believing the in universe propaganda
There were prosperous, peaceful and enlightened human civilizations before the Great Crusade. The Emperor stomped them into the dirt and set up the nightmarish regime that is the Imperium, which also happens to be the source of pretty much the entirety of Chaos' mortal servants.
>>
>>57409370
The souls of the T'au are also in the Warp. It doesn't matter as long as they don't a shine so bright.
>>
>>57409438
Why didn't he do as Iron Hands do, just turn humans into toasters. Wrath of Iron suggests their souls fade away as their biological parts are removed.
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>>57409459
fucking midicholians
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>>57406449
Pretty much.
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>>57409459
He wanted humanity to remain humanity.
>>
>>57406449
t. adb
Go cry about your daddy beating you somewhere else you dumb faggot.
>>
>>57406358
I saw ADB at Warhammer World in Nottingham yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Horus models in his hands without paying.

The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the boxes and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each model and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
>>
>>57409159
> I don't even understand the hate for wanting to show the Emperor as less than perfect.
Because they like the idea of "good-leader-ocracy" and thought that the Imperium under the Emperor was an example of it. So if something shows the Emperor as imperfect, it's seen as an attack on that.
>>
>>57409159
> I don't even understand the hate for wanting to show the Emperor as less than perfect.
Oh fuck off with this bullshit, the state of The Emperor and The Imperium already showed him as lees them perfect. The original fluff showed him as a noble and heroic, but arrogant and flawed individual who grew distant from humanity because of his long age and great knowledge and ultimately paid the price for it by both keeping all of his sons in the dark, underestimating the threat of chaos corruption and having his humanity come back to bite him in the ass in the worst possible moment (he couldn't bring himself to kill Horus when he was face to face with him even though he believed he'd have no problem doing it).Then this faggot comes along and
>lel, The Emperor is SUPER evil and cruel for no reason
>muh numbers
>he's also dumb as fuck because with fatherly love out of the way there is no reason to keep Angron around
>and he's weak as fuck, here's my super speshul OC daemon that can kill him
>and the chaos gods are omnipotent and already won lolxd
>hail chaos fuck all established lore
>my daddy beat me so i take it out on the dad character of 40k
Fuck this faggot. Fire him and retcon all of his garbage. And not only is he a retard when it comes to lore, even his prose is shit. I've read better sentence structures and descriptions in fucking fanfiction.
>>
>>57408781
That would be Matt Ward. This is Aaron Demski-Bowden.
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>>57408925
>Another will come, one who will doubtless learn from Horus’ errors of faith and judgement.’
>and he will have a cool topknot and will be totally badass and awesome and way better that dumb old Horus and, and he'll be right to kill me because I'm a mean poopyhead
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>>57409616
Mad Emperor babby

Can't wait for the next overhyped /tg/-approved writer who sucks Emprah cock and then we all bitch how the Imperium is perfect and everyone is a shitty cartoon villain compared to them
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>>57409531
Making a shitton of transhuman indoctrinated soldiers of which half go over to his enemy sure is the best way to go about that.
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>>57408204
>As I see it he is anti-authoritarian, not anti-authority. I don't know if he's anti-organised religion more than all of 40K is. The ecclesiarchy is hardly ever portrayed in a wholly positive light

The problem with this is it's fine when you do it irl in your comfy 21st century liberal democracy. It makes less sense when you're setting this in a universe with things like chaos not only in it, but as an actual personified and active force. Ultimately people like ADB run into the same problem the creators of Judge Dredd did. People don't care about their 6th form level political leftism and love the fascist parody they've created. What's worse is people tend to want it straight.
>>
>>57409707
>Chaos fans resorting to /v/ level consolewars stupidity.

Nah, See, ADB doesn't even write wank for all chaos, he just picks his favorites, creates his mary sues and just make the entire writing suffer for it.

t.World Eaters fan. Sometimes Chaos should just be as one dimensional as ever, there is purity in it.
>>
>>57409707
Those only write fanfiction, since GW is now rolling out the facts about the Emperor. /tg/-approved Emperorwank is now just Bill King's Emperor vs Horus showdown and that's getting retconned by the time Horus Heresy series ends.
>>
>>57409707
shook chaos/xeno cuck
There is no need to suck his cock. What is needed is to stop making him out to be a monster while sucking off the most objectively evil faction in the setting. Even the fucking DEldar are ultimately doing what it takes to survive, chaos is literally evil incarnate. But surely their most hated and feared enemy is the REAL villain.
>>
>>57408558
ADB literally said white men aren't the default. Of course this is true irl but in regards to GW fiction it's a ludicrous statement.

He's basically lefty /pol/ irl.
>>
>>57409781
Emperor is more evil than Doombreed and Foulspawn combined since he's the biggest Chaos enabler in the setting. Fancucks fail to see this or while that it's a "retcon". No. The clue is in why he is the Emperor in the first place: "by the will of the gods".
>>
>>57406358
I saw ADB in Warhammer World in Nottingham the other day, I was playing an introductory game because I've been out of the hobby for a while and wanted to try out 8th. Anyway when I saw him I asked him if he was working on any interesting projects at the moment and he was like

"I've been into making videos of myself ejaculating on tiny figures of anime girls. It's something I go in and out of phases with, but I've been feeling it lately. I know it sounds strange, but it's actually a real creative outlet for me."

obviously I was pretty surprised and tried to make my excuses and get back to the game, but he continued "There's a surprising amount of lighting, posing, and editing that goes into making a high quality video."

I'm guessing the staff al knew about it though because as soon as he walked in two of the staff unfurled one of those bugmans brewery banners in front of the T'au shelf obscuring all the boxes and just stood there pretending to size it up for like five minutes as he wandered around the showroom before grunting and stomping out
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>>57409799
>The clue is in why he is the Emperor in the first place
Shaman sacrifice to protect mankind?
>he's the biggest Chaos enabler in the setting
Literally the ramblings of a chaoscuck.
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>>57406673
> leftest
>>
>>57408883
>>57408967
Perpetuals are the worst fucking part of the lore. The character they shit on the most isn't even Emps. their very existence is an affront to Malcador.
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>>57409750
As a 1ks fan I don't think you can lump all chaos into one way of acting, WE wouldn't act anywhere near the same as 1ks despite both being chaos.
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>>57408509
>He made a deal with Chaos for ultimate power
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>>57409866
>he believes the shaman story
His main superpowers come from a pact with Chaos. I bet you also support Illuminati and the Sensei.
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>>57409907
>characters who made their first appearence in Horus Heresy are an affront to a character who made his first appearence in Horus Heresy
Is the existence of Faramir a direct affront to Boromir too?
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>>57409920
>he believes the ravings of McNeill
>he believes Chaos are anything more the parasites on the subconsciousness of Mankind and that The Emperor doesn't wield greater power then them because as a hyper-consciousness he's a lot more suited to manipulating the canvas of human subconsciousness then the tumors who are ultimately a part of it
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>>57409935
>pepre-pius, grammaticus and sureka are as old in the lore as Malcador
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>>57409916
But 1k sons are just as pleasantly one Dimensional.

Petty angry schemers who delve into the arcane sciences to settle a grudge.
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>>57407786
>cringy
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>>57409959
P and A are Older. John-G is not.
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>>57409935
isn't Pius RT era? I swear he features on the RT Imperial guard box cover
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>>57409961
I may have misunderstood what you originally said, what I thought you were saying is all of chaos should be the same flavour of one dimensional and I disagreed. I will also say that from my point of view I don't feel it's petty considering what happened.

I think for the most part the grudge is gone though from what I gather, so we can just get on with being nerds in towers on our planet.
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>>57409973
Wait, you're actually claiming that they were written before Malcador?
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>>57409983
Pius didn't actually make a personal appearence in RT era, he was one of the IG patron saints who supposedly saved the Emperor during the assault on Imperial Palace. William King's story about Emperor vs Horus has an Imperial Fist Terminator.
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>>57407119
Because you're a sped son.
Quality literature might take some effort from the reader.
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>>57409993
Didn't know what you meant. Frankly, your post was confusing since them being written before or after Mal doesn't make take away from him since he isn;t connected to them at all.
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>>57409959
All of them are first introduced in the Horus Heresy series.
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>>57410035
ah yes that's what I meant, that he was establish in 40k lore rather than appearing as an alive person
>>
No one seriously thinks Chaos is the good guys. However there is the question of why the hell anyone would choose Chaos given how awful it is. As the story of the HH gets more fleshed out, those reasons come up, and one reason is that the Imperium is bad enough that it does sometimes lead people to take a chance on Chaos. And when you get fully half of the Primarchs and their legions turning traitor, it's pretty clear that it's not just an isolated case. And since the Emperor was one of the common elements in all of them turning traitor, and since he's the one they're turning against, it makes since that the Emperor was a big part of the story as to why the HH happened.
>>
>>57406358
First book I read I was blown away. Night Lords went from edgy murderhobo's to developed characters, and I thought it was cool there was a female character who wasn't a classic Stronk Female. But then the more I read from him the more I realize he's only ever able to write that plot, with the same tragic bois, with the same waifu. That's my disappointment with him.

But to be fair, there are much, much worse writers.
>>
>>57410077
But the HH already gave reasons.

ADB just makes those reasons even more "Daddy issues" and "Eating the forbidden candy"
>>
SHUT THE FUCK UP
The precious emperer was always the villain in the setting. ALWAYS. Why do you think all the aliens want him dead? Why do you think the GODS want him dead?
He was always evil and stupid and bad. This is canon. This has always been canon. You can't prove otherwise because this is true.
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>57410098
>>
>>57410077
Not saying the Imperium or Emps was good but >>57408683
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>>57410111
Chaos wins, what you gonna do about it? Cry?
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>>57410098
>he was always the villain in the setting
Yeah I don't know what you've been playing, chaosboy, but nah.
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>>57410050
Malcador's main role in the setting was essentially showing that, ultimately, Big E is a good guy and the best hope humanity has. He's this impossibly old, grumpy and cynical man who is obviously extremely knowledgeable and dedicated to the protection of mankind, and he's not afraid to openly call even Big E out on his shit. He's his right hand man and best friend, and it's obvious that unless he absolutely believed in what they were doing, he would not follow Emps. It's also very important to again point out that he calls Big E out on his shit all the time, showing that he's the furthest thing from a sycophant, and that Emperor himself values keeping someone like that at arm's length, showing that he understand the dangers of arrogance and yes men, and that he's not perfect (even if he didn't understand it enough). Basically, Malcador is one of my favorite things about the setting.
Then come all of these fucking OCdonutsteals with mary sue powers and backgrounds
>heh, kid, i'm as old as The Emperor and know the REAL story
>he's evil, fuck him
>i'm just gonna judge everything he's doing even though he took on the burden f protecting humanity from certain damnation and everything that entails (and is shown that he somewhat detaches himself deliberately because all the hard decisions are getting even to him)
>meanwhile i'm gonna do fuck all and then act holier-then-thou
>lel look at my mary sue powers, reading emotions XD
>also fuck that brat Malcador, he's drinking the cool aid
Fuck perpetushits.
>>
Remember that Emperor restarted the broken doomsday clock in The Last Church with his antics.
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>>57410098
>Why do you think all the aliens want him dead?
Because he's protecting humanity from them and wants to take the galaxy for his species?
>Why do you think the GODS want him dead?
Absolutely the same reason?
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>>57410136
>Chaos wins eventually
ftfy
I can still watch chaos fags get BTFO over and over again until then
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>>57410168
Because SURELY humanity was absolutely thriving before He appeared.
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>>57410188
There were places where it was recovering, just not on Earth.
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>>57410184
Doesn't matter what you do at the table, Chaos really won.
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>>57410133
There are several others saying that, see
>>57408659
and
>>57408739
>>
>>57410167
Malcador is a perpetual himself. Who was it that wrote the Visions of Heresy book where Malcador appeared first as this old guy who was friend of Empra? Alan Merrett himself.
Now who was the head of Games Workshop's intellectual property department, the guy who sat with the contracted authors and told them to put Perpetuals in their Horus Heresy books?
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>>57410200
Oh yea, and Chaos/aliens where absolutely not gonna steamroll them, no sir-e. For sure those petty empires where gonna deal with Dark Eldar raids just fine, to say nothing of the first Waagh that appears.
>>
>>57408358
>40k is a ironic setting
Fuck off hipster, 40k isn't "ironic" and splashing that word on it to sound smart just shows you're a smug cunt who hasn't the faintest idea of what he is talking about. Seriously get out of table top, your insistence on dumbing down everything to "beer and pretzels" as well as insisting that your post-modernist bullshit, tumblr politics and patronizing fanwank of minorities ruins any enjoyment other people have. I'm not even a /pol/ fag but you faggots in the hobby are insufferable.
>>
Imperium fanboys and Chaos fanboys dislike and like him because they misunderstand his books.For example: A demon says Emperor did *something that lessens his capabilities*. Chaos fanboys and Imperium fanboys assume that the demon is telling the truth.

The Master of Mankinbd is the perfect example of both chaosfags and imperiumfags getting it wrong. The book establishes that you can't trust your eyes when dealing with the Emperor so literally everyone is an unreliable narrator, The book is also filled with on purpose contradictions: For example:

- when dealing with the custodes the Emperor is shown to be harsh and cold towards the Primarchs using their numbers instead of names, yet calls Horus by name at the end
- the Demons who previously have stated that The Emperor isn't really that powerful still call him "the Anathema" which suggests that Emps is actually a bit more than some pawn in their game
- Ra claims that the Emperor is distraught and afraid of Drach'nyen BUT it is later told that the reason why The Emperor showed Ra his past visions was so that Ra would sacrifice himself (by running off into the webway) to seal Drach'nyen. So the Emperor knew that Drach'nyen would come and what would happen beforehand? The whole fight with Drach'nyen is weird. It first seems like that The Emperor was stabbed by Drach'nyen but then he teleports away and seals Drach'nyen away. Which would indicate that being stabbed was just a ruse that allowed him to seal Drach'nyen. Or the whole fight was just Ra projecting his own ideals of the Emperor (sacrifice etc) or the Emperor was manipulating Ra (making it seem like he's sacrificing himself to make Ra more willing to sacrifice himself).

The bigger point is that the author of MoM has stated that nothing in the book should be taken at face value. The book only has unreliable narrators. Yet autists think it's some DnD monster manual stats book on the Emperor. It isn't. The canonity of 40k is very fluid anyways.
>>
>>57410222
Considering that the Imperium isn't handling those very well, it's entirely possible that people like the Interex would have done better. At this point, they can't do much worse.
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>>57410218
>Malcador is a perpetual himself
Then why the fuck is he so old?
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>>57410255
Perpetuals don't all look the same age.
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>>57410252
>Considering that the Imperium isn't handling those very well
>Still the most dominant power in the Galaxy 10k years later
>still fighting them off
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>>57410270
That's retarded.
>>
>>57410239
Emperor's getting tabletop rules so Forgeworld will provide that monster manual.
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>>57410212
It matters to <my dudes> and it matters to the in-universe people that <my dudes> fight for,what does it matter if chaos wins in a thousand millenia? What's happening [now] is what's important
>>
>>57410291
They look the age of their first death, it's classic Highlander.
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>>57410272
They already lost. And them seeming to win was all a plot by chaos. Emp is just a chaos pawn , he walways was and was always intended to be.
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>>57410239
This ''argument'' has already been deconstructed. When called out his shit, adb backpaddled with it, but he's not smart enough to write something like this. If everyone sees their ideal Emperor, why was the mechanicus guys horrified at how cold He was towards Angron? Why is the guy who's supposed to be a match for the Chaos Gods having trouble with a daemon? What the fuck is that entire ending with Big E saying that it's over and that humanity cannot be saved?
>>
>>57410308
your dudes don't matter. this isn't about your stupid tabletop figures.
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>>57410311
I considered that but it's still retarded, and implies Big E got killed at some point in his prime.
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>>57410340
emperer can't even kill one demon, what do you expect? He probably gets killed all the time.
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>>57410351
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>>57410334
it's the ONLY thing that matters, whether Chaos wins or the nids eat everything is pretty irrelivent
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>>57410357
Don't post unrelated images.
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>>57410272
And in those 10k years it was, all the while, inflicting intense and unnecessary pain and suffering upon the billions that it ruled over. The Imperium's 10k year decline was probably one of the worst things that could happen to humanity, trapping it in an awful death spiral for generations. It's main accomplishment is that it is dying a very slow, painful death rather than a quick one.

Hell, half the reason Chaos is such a substantial threat in the first place is because the Imperium is constantly feeding it new recruits. Imagine how shitty life has to be to turn to Chaos. Now remember that you regularly get entire hive worlds of billions of people turning to Chaos.
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>>57410369
Grow up. This setting isn't about your precious babies and never was.
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>>57410370
It's literally the perfect reaction image for the post.
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>>57410239
>- Ra claims that the Emperor is distraught and afraid of Drach'nyen BUT it is later told that the reason why The Emperor showed Ra his past visions was so that Ra would sacrifice himself (by running off into the webway) to seal Drach'nyen. So the Emperor knew that Drach'nyen would come and what would happen beforehand? The whole fight with Drach'nyen is weird. It first seems like that The Emperor was stabbed by Drach'nyen but then he teleports away and seals Drach'nyen away. Which would indicate that being stabbed was just a ruse that allowed him to seal Drach'nyen. Or the whole fight was just Ra projecting his own ideals of the Emperor (sacrifice etc) or the Emperor was manipulating Ra (making it seem like he's sacrificing himself to make Ra more willing to sacrifice himself).

The Emperor knew that Drach'nyen would come because he had foresight. He was actually trying to win the fight but when that failed he went with plam B. Or are you stupid enough to think the Emperor threw away humanity's future over nothing? And It's not unreliable when the Emperor tells the Custodes in the epilogue that everything is fucked because that's the speech of a man who is in despair and it doesn't serve to encourge the custodes at all. And finally the Emperor 'OH SHIT WE ARE FUCKED" speech is affirmed in the Afterword.
>>
>>57410369
You're a child. If you're not playing Chaos, then you're playing the villain in another player's story and nothing else.
>>
>>57410371
>struggling against literal hell and damnation that represent all of your failings and shortcomings is bad
>>
>>57410387
It's just some space marine.
>>
>>57410396
>>57410384
t. people who missed the point
>>
>>57410411
His facial expression is the perfect response AND it's relevant because it's a Space Marine.
>>
>>57410414
Your fanfiction is not important.
>>
>>57410407
Struggling against Chaos is fine.

The problem is that the way the Imperium does it is hilariously counterproductive. Their over the top brutality is one of the things that makes Chaos such a big threat. If the Imperium were even a sliver less corrupt and oppressive, Chaos wouldn't have anywhere near the kind of foothold it does among humanity.
>>
>>57410136
Wrong, Orks win, cause Orks have already got their endgame, lots of shit to fight. Orks have already won ya spiky git
>>
>>57410407
It is.
>>
>>57410435
I think the best way to describe the Imperium fighting chaos is the comic of the boy sticking a stick into the front wheel of his bike.
>>
>>57410407
>>57410452
Also, Chaos is heaven, not hell. The Emperer is the satan figure in this series. Horus is jesus, dying for our sins and freeing us from satan.
>>
>>57410435
Struggling against Chaos is evil in a of itself. The imperium can't be less evil because it is modeled after the emperor who is evil.
>>
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>>57410460
>horus is jesus
Jesus never gave into the temptation of satan and never turned against his father, wtf kind of bible education did you get?
>>
>>57410474
There is no evil or good (except for the T'au who are good tehe~) there is only survival.
>>
>>57410460
You need to read up on what Christ died for m8ty
Christ died to wash away the original sin of mankind. horus was just a lil bitch with daddy issues.
>>
>>57410489
>except for the T'au who are good tehe~

Back to your Corbyn rally.
>>
>>57410453
My preferred analogy is that the Imperium is a dude hanging off a cliff by one hand, and he'll soon fall to his death. And while he could hang on longer if he used his other hand as well, he's too busy using it to flip everyone else off to do that.
>>
>>57410425
doesn't need to be, whether the over arching plot results in a chaos win or a nid win or whoever doesn't matter to any of the characters in any of the fiction. Do Gaunt's Ghosts care if Chaos will win in several millennia after their deaths? No! Because they're fighting for their lives in their time frame. An ultimate Chaos win is no more relevant to I dunno Azreal than the ultimate heat death of the universe is to me. It's now that matters
>>
>>57410497
The Tau are Emperor's endgame for humans. Lock them in the webway, let their psychic abilities athropy without attracting daemons there, let them out once they have insignificant warp presence and cults can't rise up.
>>
>>57410389
>He was actually trying to win the fight
There's nothing that indicates this.
but when that failed he went with plam B
This was my whole point. It clearly wasn't some last minute plan B when he very clearly was preparing Ra for it. It was his main plan.
>The Emperor knew that Drach'nyen would come because he had foresight.
Exactly. Which is why it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would show fear when he arrives. The Emperor knew he would be there and knew what to do.
>>
>>57410487
Chaos is the father. Literally and figuratively, this is CANON. Emperor is Satan. Learn to READ and THINK
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>>57410536
You're incorrect and it's canon that you're incorrect. You're just sour grapes.
>>
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Don't hate him; but he's severely overhyped. He knows that lore masterfully, but is probably the most egregious Mary Sue insertion artist in the BL stable.
He also virtue signals and white knights to the high heavens.
His 'cool character grand speeches' are copypastas, be it Grimaldus or whatshisname from the NL trilogy.
Still not the worst in BL; no worries Thorpe, no one is going to usurp you yet.

Most BL writers are hack artists and it's fine since the universe is nice and pulpy. If you want deep, mind-twisty, awesome writing in BL, go with Peter Fehervari. The man does not get enough commissions, they give his works crap, generic titles, and bland covers. But read Fire Caste and get lost in the Dark Coil.
>>
>>57410540
The emperor was afraid because he's a weak chaos bitch.
>>
>>57410558
>sour grapes
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
>>
>>57410564
*Give his works crap titles. sorry.
>>
>>57410539
>The Tau are Emperor's endgame for humans.
Yes, slaves.
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>>57410340
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>>57410574
So you admit it's just sour grapes then. I'm glad you see the light and accept that you're not important.
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>>57410566
Why would someone who knew of the threat beforehand and had a foolproof plan be afraid. It doesn't make sense and is an example of the on (i hope) purpose contradictions in the MoM.
>>
AD-B is such an attention whore that $10 says he's the OP here; just throwing this whole thread out to watch the fanboys assume the positions of supplication.
>>
>>57410613
Emperer is an evil bitch.
>>
See the problem with chaos fags is they are so hung up over this concept of who wins, the truth is no one wins, if someone won, the GW wouldn't be able to release more 40k shit.

Chaos fags just need to justify that they are right for choosing such a shit faction. literally look like they walked into a machine shop mixed with hot topic
>>
>>57410599
>accept that you're not important.
No-one is, that's the point
>>
>>57410540
>Exactly. Which is why it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would show fear when he arrives. The Emperor knew he would be there and knew what to do.

Don't lie. The Emperor did not fear it. He was feeling a sense of awe at its purity of malice and evil. Its one thing to foresee it coming but to actually to be in its presence is something else. Drach'nyen is an abomination like no other.

>There's nothing that indicates this.

Except for the fact that the the Webway Project was his life's work. All the sacrifices and losses incurred in the Webway were made vain at the moment of the Imperial route.

>It was his main plan.

It wasn't. The plan was to defeat the Webway and secure the Webway.

I noticed you ignored the Emperor's WE LOST speech and ADB's Afterworld about it. Dishonest of you!
>>
>>57410643
Don't backtrack now, you've already admitted your wrong.
>>
>>57410564
>Peter Fehervari

The problem about him is that he doesn't understand the T'au. He ALWAYS writes novels and short stories that delights in showing that the T'au way of thinking is wrong and that the Imperium doctrine is superior. It's obnoxious.
>>
>>57410677
wrong about what?
>>
>>57410652
Only reddit gets it, emperor is evil and a failure and him being a failure is good.
>>
>>57410652
Defeat the Webway incursion*
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>>57410690
everthing
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>>57410706
be specific
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>>57408358
> ironic
> ironic = shit
Just because 40k is shittily written, doesnt mean it needs to remain shittily written. Are you seriously saying adding an extra dimension to its characters detracts from its depth? It's not Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy or Don Quixote. It's not intelligent enough to pretend irony was its goal...
>>
>>57410724
Can't, you're wrong about everything. If you think of a thing you used to think, it was wrong. You've admitted this already.
>>
>>57410687
Peter Fehervari

That's an interesting point. I'll admit I'm no Tau lore expert; but it seems to me, in his writing, that there are a lot of things good about the Tau doctrines, and their 'way' in general.

Then, towards the end, he shows that they aren't ready for certain curveballs.

In FC, we had a petrie dish of the Imperium and the Tau, and the Tau way was more appealing....but the Ethereal had his mind blown at the end by the nature of Chaos.

In The Greater Evil, the Ambassador realizes that the xenophobia of the Imperium might actually have some credence after seeing a genestealer/tau offspring.

But in both books, the Tau way looks more enticing than the dogmatic dictatorship of the dessicated Emperor.
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>>57410759
So you're saying the Chaos gods are not in point fact going to win?
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>>57410759
I know this is 4chan and retardation is natural, but come on man, at least turn the started motor on your brain.
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>>57410652
>Don't lie. The Emperor did not fear it
And I didn't say that the Emperor feared it! I said that it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would show fear! Which was in reference to Ra perceiving fear! In the! Emperor!. So in actuality my statement was! That Ra! is an! unrealiable! narrator! and! that I! Don't! Believe! The! Emperor! was! Afraid!
>Except for the fact that the the Webway Project was his life's work. All the sacrifices and losses incurred in the Webway were made vain at the moment of the Imperial route.
This has nothing to do with my point or yours.I stated that the Emperor was not trying to kill Drach'nyen which has nothing to do with your response. The Emperor wasn't trying to kill Drach'nyen, his plan was to seal him inside Ra. It's a very traditional set up - payoff situation. We're set up with the Emperor telling Ra is past etc and the payoff is when Ra sacrifices himself.
>It wasn't. The plan was to defeat the Webway and secure the Webway.
Actually, no it wasn't. When the Emperor enters the fight he has already given up on the webway - he fights the Chaos horde off so that they can seal the gates with the Golden Throne.

I don't even like the Imperium that much, not my main faction. But it's pretty obvious that you're a chaosfanboy who read the book with a heavy confirmation bias filter and that you ignore everything that goes against your opinion.
>>
>>57410774
>but the Ethereal had his mind blown at the end by the nature of Chaos.

It wasn't an Ethereal, it was a elder water caste guy.

And you should read this

https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/quick-reads/sanctuary-of-wyrms-ebook.html

And this

https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/quick-reads/out-caste-ebook.html

Peter is creating his own small space in 40K.
>>
>>57410816
why! are! you! posting! like! this! you! fucking! numpty!
>>
>>57410808
No, you used to think they weren't and now you know they are. I'm glad I was able to help you see the light, child.
You're not important. What you do on the table isn't important. What figurines you have isn't important. Chaos winning is important. Chaos will win and has already won and has always won.
>>
So if I want to do Great Crusade era Imperium in Stellaris do I pick
ethics
Authoritarian
Militarist
Xenophobe
traits
Nationalistic Zeal (border expansion), Aristocratic Elite (more minor leaders)
Distinguished Admiralty (better space fleets)

or
ethics
Militarist
Fanatical Xenophobe
traits
Fanatic Purifiers (doesn't do diplomacy with xenos and captured ones are always purged, huge relationship penalty but a great military boost)
Aristocratic Elite OR Nationalistic Zeal
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>>57406358
Honestly, because I see him as the face of an interpretation of Chaos I don't enjoy.

To me, Chaos works best when they're a ragtag group of brigands, raiders and pirates who just occasionally unite together to wreak havoc on the Imperium before quickly falling apart again. To me, Chaos should not be this unified militaristic force, but more like the barbarians who tore apart Rome. Sure, they did it together, but they weren't exactly working together.

I don't like Abaddon, and not just for the "Failbaddon" memes. To me, there should be no one true leader of Chaos. Black Crusades should be what happens when Kharn, Lucius, Ahriman, and Typhus finally put aside their differences for a while to make a big push before settling back into in-fighting and personal goals. Similar to how the Chaos Gods rarely work together, and are more focused on the Great Game and battling each other for their own personal gain. But when they do unite, it can tear the galaxy asunder.

I think this makes for a much more interesting Chaos. And I'll be honest, I enjoy ADB's non Horus Heresy or Black Legion stories. The Night Lords books were great, and a perfect example of the kind of Chaos I prefer.
>>
>>57410816
lol your wrong
emperor is evil and just a little bitch
>>
>>57410816
>And I didn't say that the Emperor feared it! I said that it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would show fear! Which was in reference to Ra perceiving fear! In the! Emperor!. So in actuality my statement was! That Ra! is an! unrealiable! narrator! and! that I! Don't! Believe! The! Emperor! was! Afraid!

So the Emperor!
Did no fear it!
So your objection!
Is overruled!

>This has nothing to do with my point or yours.I stated that the Emperor was not trying to kill Drach'nyen which has nothing to do with your response. The Emperor wasn't trying to kill Drach'nyen, his plan was to seal him inside Ra. It's a very traditional set up - payoff situation. We're set up with the Emperor telling Ra is past etc and the payoff is when Ra sacrifices himself.

Yes, he was. When he got wounded by it he went to play B. He obviously wanted to win and secure the future of mankind. Losing the Webway literally means the end.

>Actually, no it wasn't. When the Emperor enters the fight he has already given up on the webway - he fights the Chaos horde off so that they can seal the gates with the Golden Throne.

Now that's headcanon. The Emperor could have sealed the Gate from the outside there was no need for him to enter there except to fight for victory.

>I don't even like the Imperium that much, not my main faction. But it's pretty obvious that you're a chaosfanboy who read the book with a heavy confirmation bias filter and that you ignore everything that goes against your opinion.

Says the guy who is ignoring the epilogue and afterworld which are conveniently posted in this thread.
>>
>>57410870
Wrong.
>>
>>57410853
>numpty
Its interesting how many variations there are of the word idiot. I had to look this up because I never heard it before.
>>
>>57410860
So you are saying that because the sun will implode millions of years from now, I shouldn't enjoy my tendies while playing Hearthstone? That getting engaged and planning a future is meaningless since my great great great great greatx100 grandson will be blown to bits by a supernova?
>>
>>57410910
Yes.
Except the sun also is exploding now and in the past and has always been exploding but it's a good thing.
The explosions in this case are the nuclear reactions that keep the sun shining and life existing. Chaos is the constant exploding of the sun. It will explode before you, it is exploding now and it will explode in the future. This is a good thing. Fighting chaos is like having a staring contest with the sun. It's stupid and its only hurting yourself out of spite for a good thing.
>>
>>57410860
No I said that they would win and that it was the the people facing that inevitability that got to decide what was important to them in their lifetimes.

I feel sorry for the Chaos gods, At least most of the characters get to die sooner or later, the gods are eternal all they have is the great game, for aeon upon aeon upon aeon. Worse still if there's an eventual winner, an eternity of boredom
>>
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>>57410893
>Wrong.
Nothing I put there was a fact to be proven or disproven. That was me stating my opinion, and personal favored interpretation.

You can enjoy the unified Chaos thing, but I'm not a fan and not likely to change my opinion on that. And that's fine, we shouldn't have to push the interpretation we enjoy onto other people. Just be content with your viewpoint of the lore.
>>
>>57410960
Nope, what the lore says is that while the reign of Chaos is certain in can be delayed. The Great Rift was suppose to be the end of the galaxy and victory of Chaos. It was suppose to be the Rhanda Dandra. But due to the treachery of Chaos and the valiant resistance of the races of the galaxy, the end of days was postponed.

You cannot fight the sun but you can fight Chaos. You can win days, months, years, centuries from Chaos with each victory against it. You ensure your people live on.
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>>57411011
Wrong opinion.
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>>57411049
Either you're a troll posing as Carnac at this point, or you're delusional man. Seek help for your lack of empathy.
>>
>it's another ADB's wife is with the bull so he shitpost of /tg/ episode
>>
>>57411063
Not Carnac just a man who thinks you are wrong
>>
>>57406407
>disavow
>>
>>57411087
>thinks
it must be a great effort for you
>>
>>57410829
Right. My bad. O'Seishin was a High Ambassador, not an Ethereal.

But I read Sanctuary of Wyrms and Out Caste....Between Out Caste and Fire Caste, one could argue that Jhi'Kaara deserved her own novel.

BL just won't give PF the commissions....
>>
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>>57411087
And I disagree. There you go, that's the extent of our argument, and it won't go passed that.
>>
>>57411011
Wrong.
Not canon.
>>
>>57406594
>Not everything he's written is great (I'm not a fan of his interpretation of the Emperor but then again the whole of BL seems to be trying to shit on Emps)
The Emperor was always a dick, though. I don't know why people act like that's shocking. Did they forget that we're talking about a guy that wanted to kill all religious people, simply for disagreeing with his tyrannic views of religious freedom? The fact that he killed off the Thunder Warriors because they were no longer useful to him, intended to kill all the Navigators, had the same plans for the Space Marines, and wanted to imprison all the Primarchs, whom he saw only as tools, in his underground fortress on Terra? And that's only dealing with the humanity, the species he claimed he was "protecting". If you were a Xeno or god forbid, a mutant, tough luck. You're killed on sight. By the end of it all, I just don't feel even slightest remorse for what the Emperor is suffering through. 10k years of torture still sounds lenient. He could die and I still wouldn't care.
>>
>>57411081
wow not cool m8
>>
>>57411139
I agree with this man in the wrongness of that guy.
>>
>>57411145
Emperer isnt a dick hes downright evil and the villain of the setting. He always was.
>>
>>57411149
I doubt the bull has any complaints....
>>
>>57411151
I disagree, and think that you both wrong.
>>
>>57411171
Nothing wrong with abd being a cuck
>>
>>57411139
Again, nothing I was stating was a factual statement to go against canon. Notice how I used words like "I think" or "To me." That's because these are opinions, stating how I would prefer Chaos to be portrayed, and how that differs from how ADB is portrayed.

The threat was started asking why people don't like ADB, and I stated my opinion on why. This isn't an argument about canon or definitive statements.
>>
>>57411183
wrong
>>
>>57411198
Yeah, someone's gotta hold the camera.
>>
>>57411209
Your still wrong though.
You are dislikeing something for bad and wrong reasons.
Stop
>>
>>57411145
Isn't the whole point of Marines that they wouldn't need to be destroyed like the thunder warriors? Like the purpose of the gene seed being that they not only could take hold and police territory but they'd also be self sustaining
>>
ADB was liked by TG when he started, but when he became more and more popular 4chan contrarianism means WFT I hate ADB now. This will happen to everything here.
>>
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>>57411211
I play smug anime girl and call you wronger.
go ahead, do what you must, I have already won.
>>
>>57411256
You posted wrong sister. You lost and wrong
>>
Guess sticking to your headcanon is the way for 40k
>>
>>57411265
WRONG
>>
>>57409738
>Ultimately people like ADB run into the same problem the creators of Judge Dredd did. People don't care about their 6th form level political leftism and love the fascist parody they've created. What's worse is people tend to want it straight.
This is the problem with 40k in general. The satire of fascism slowly morphed into a straightforward good vs bad story as people loved the fascist "heroes".
>>
>>57409798
>but in regards to GW fiction it's a ludicrous statement.
What? Why would it be? The Emperor isn't even white.
>>
>>57411306
Exactly why he's evil and needs to die.
Heil Abadon!
Heil Chaos!
>>
>>57410167
Recent Malcador audiobook by Laurie Goulding reveals the Emperor planned the heresy, apparently. I would hardly take Malcador's approval as an indictment of the Emperor's benevolence
>>
>>57411246
or you know, he started writing fanfiction tier bullshit and putting more and more of his cuck fetish into the books
>>
>>57410316
Chaos daemons codex confirms that if Chaos hadn't gotten wind of the Primarchs and scattered them, the Emperor would have defeated the Chaos Gods.
>>
>>57411370
Imperial propaganda.
>>
>>57410407
The Imperium has done more to feed and perpetuate Chaos than everything else put together.
>>
>>57411291
I'm pretty sure that's what Guilliman and Cawl the reformers are here to straighten out. The Imperium genuinely will be a progressive force for good by the time the decade's out
>>
>>57411392
thats because the emperer is a chaos cultist.
>>
>>57411408
WRONG
They'll all be dead because the good faction, chaos, will win.
>>
>>57411419
yes yes in a billion years or whatever, but in the mean time we get a new golden age.
>>
>>57411408
And I fucking hate it. It's not only missing the point of the setting, it's rewriting it to fit with the WRONG view.
>>
>>57408400
wow, he is an even bigger faggot than I thought
bitching on twitter and putting his views in the books I get, but going to players to complain why they painted all their minis in a certain way is low even for him
>>
>>57411460
Nope. Imperium is evil, always have been, always will be. Will only stop when it's destroyed.
>>
>>57411515
>IG player
>Racist
>/pol/lock

What a surprise.
>>
>>57411370
Nope, it just says that it would have led to to series of events that would have led to the downfall of the Chaos Gods. It doesn't say that the Emperor himself would defeat them.

Its most likely Tzeentch foreseeing that the Emperor had broken his deal with them.
>>
>>57411370
Tzeentch had seen an event chain that would have led to the downfall of Chaos Gods you mean, since that is what the codex says.

This event chain was of course Emperor's webway plan succeeding, since that was his counter to Chaos.
>>
>>57411336
Malcador ends the audiobook by saying that he lied.
>>
>>57411505
To be fair on the creators I don't think they were expecting to be marketing the game yanks with a catastrophic irony deficiency when they created the setting. They've either got to reform the setting or face the embarrassment of having a gaggle of frog marching retards as fans. Even though I'm not hugely keen on the idea I can understand where they're coming from
>>
>>57411602
Eat shit imperium fanboy.
your on the wrong side of history. Even fake history.
>>
>>57411602
Would frogposters be considered heresy in the Imperium?
>>
>>57411807
They put mutants in their posts, that is heretic.
>>
>>57411807
I think it would depend on the context, but any unsanctioned individual using telecommunications equipment -anonymously no less-, would probably be in for a rough time
>>
>>57411535
>not enforcing diversity quotas on your own imagination
>DAS RAYCISS

I'm legitimately unsure if you're joking.
>>
>>57412206
given that we're dealing with an unverifiable anecdote here I don't think it's worth getting worked up about honestly
>>
>>57412206
>>>/pol/




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