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What, in your opinion, are the "essential" spells or effects a game should have in its magic system?
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An attack spell. A movement spell. A fly spell. A heal spell. An invisibility spell. And a charm / "read mind" spell.
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>>60287120

"Make martial obsolete" spell.

Everything else can go by the wayside.
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Penis enlargement.
Penis shrinking.
Penis stealing.
Breast enlargement.
Breast shrinking.
Breast stealing.
Semen vampirism.
Enfutaning.
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>>60287120
Make Boom
Make Fast
Make Invisible
Make Defense

The rest depends on the setting, and should fill out up to the boundaries of the system.
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>>60287728
fly isn't imporant
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>>60287120

No one.
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>>60289408
This, saying there're essential spells ignores different aims in system and setting design.
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>>60287120
Fireball
Maybe Knock?
Anything non-combat and fun, like Prestidigitation from DnD or Tinur's Hoptoad from Morrowind.
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>>60287120
Depends on the setting.
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>>60287120
What a retarded question.
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>>60287120
You know, the classics - make someone impotent, cause crops to wither and die, and fly on brooms to dance with the devil.
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>>60287120
Something to do damage.
Something to restore damage.
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The only thing that all magic traditions in the real world and in fantasy worlds have in common is the ability to know things no one else could. It can be more or less precise, and it can come in a variety of forms (oracles, divination, speaking with devils/the dead and so on) but that is the crux of the matter - don't forget that the ubiquitous -mancy suffix means "divination".
All the other things mentioned ITT are D&disms that are fun to have but by no means necessary.
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>>60287120
Depends on the setting.
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>>60290218
It's particularly telling that this aspect of magic is generally underemphasized in TRPGs and virtually always absent in videogames.
Some even resent using this sort of magic because it's basically cheating (which is exactly what magic should be like.)
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>>60287120
>Healing
>Damage
>Buff
>Debuff
>Charm
>Invisibility
>Flight

>>60288307
This but unironically.
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>>60291303
If magic was more difficult to get access to by being something extremely rare/difficult to attain it'd be more balanced in a certain way. As things usually are though pretty much everybody can improvise themselves magic users and the only thing martial users can do is suck it up.
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>>60289904
Agreed, stick with the classics.
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>>60289177
>enlargement
good

>shrinking
it's called "ensmallment", you nonce

>stealing
it's called "vanishment", you nonce
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>>60291303
>Some even resent using this sort of magic because it's basically cheating (which is exactly what magic should be like.)

D&D-style "I can see everything anywhere forever" scry can be an issue. Divination that is more vague and ultimately in the hands of the GM less so. I can also see it work in a narrative game, where it becomes something more like giving the narrative control to a player for a brief time.
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>>60291693
Yeah, you're never going to get balance with standard D&D magic and standard D&D classes. The wizards vs martials debate has never really been a debate.

There's basically two ways to go if you really want a balanced magic system, either:
- the limited magic of say LotR, where a wizard can do some cool stuff in a pinch but mostly has to deal with the same realities of life as everybody else. In this case magic spells rarely can defeat enemies directly (except mooks) and are no substitute for combat.

- the Magic For Everybody common to settings like Final Fantasy. In this case practically everybody can get SOME spells, the wizard is really more of a "magic expert", and if you do have a martial it's more along the lines of "I have deliberately avoided magic in my quest to become The Ultimate Swordsman".

The 3rd option is to go the route of something like Ars Magica or even Dresden Files, just accept that casters are going to be extremely OP compared to others, and build your system around that.
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>>60287728
>A heal spell
Not essential; it might even be a bad idea to have magical healing.
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>>60292095
>Yeah, you're never going to get balance with standard D&D magic and standard D&D classes. The wizards vs martials debate has never really been a debate

You say this and yet D&D 4e exists.
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>>60292134
Never played 4e, how does it differ?
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>>60287120
none, magic is so absolutely varied between settings that nothing could be considered essential. Got any other pointless questions?
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>>60292196
>Never played 4e, how does it differ?
the anons point is 4e was, in part, an honest attempt to balance casters... which SORTA worked, but mostly just ended up being a bad compromise that few people liked. I don't see it as a particularly strong counterexample.
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>>60287120
>Attack
>Defense
>Heal
>Buff
>Debuff
>Elemental attacks (fire/water/earth/wind by default, add more at your leisure)
>Summoning
>Enchantment (i.e. making magic items/weapons/armor).
>Movement/Teleportation
>Finishers (Basically, spells that once cast will end the combat in your favor, such as Power Word: Kill and Time Stop).
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>>60287120
fireball

that's it
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>>60292196
Classes are no longer differentiated by their resource structure, but by their role and their power source.

Martial is more aggressive.
Arcane is more manipulative.
Divine is more supportive.
Primal is tough as nails.
Psionic is more flexible.
Shadow is... something we don't talk about.

That said, Fighters still get the short end of the stick when it comes to skills for no reason. But it's a lot less egregious than in other WotC editions.
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>>60287120
Prestidigiation - something that allows for constant, minor magic that isn't really useful for anything you'd actually roll dice for (combat, social interaction, etc), but allows spellcasters to constantly feel like spellcasters and do minor things like heat or flavor some food, or clean their clothes.
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>>60292196
Non-meme answer: by siloing hard what each class could do. What you got through class progression was combat abilities and small-scale utility, tailored to each class' role in combat and source. This means that at a given level a wizard's spells were (with some caveats) no better than a fighter's attacks, and that all classes got some form of utility even if it was just a bit of extra mobility or toughness.
Powerful, plot-level magic was made into rituals, tied to skills and feats instead of class, with long casting times and costly components.
Maybe it's true that nobody likes 4e, as the other anon put it, but in the family of D&D-like games it addressed (and possibly solved) the martial-caster dichotomy.
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>>60291411
>This but unironically.

FWIW, I wasn't being ironic. Making martial players feel useless is one of my favorite parts of playing a caster. It's fun to watch them get more and more frustrated as I solve everything with a spell and no failure chance .
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>>60287120
Some 'splody shit.
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>>60287120
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2015/05/keep-dungeon-threats-threatening.html
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>>60287120

There's no such thing. Magic systems can mean completely different things in different contexts, and nothing is universalizable. It's a pointless, meaningless question.




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