Is this the worst setting ever?
It is pretty boring and uninspiring, Darksun or planescape were much better
It's bland and doesn't make any sense, but it's all my group plays
>>60287562FR quality really depends on which edition of it you're using, and if your DM is one of those faggots who includes novels or not.But Dragonlance is far worse in that regard.
No, it's perfectly fine and entertainingAlso suprisingly has some weird fetish bait shit in it
>>60287562Like any long term creative project lacking a singular creative vision with veto power, it's uneven as hell.
>>60287562Dragonlance is way, way worse
>>60287705>suprisinglyNot if you know anything about Ed Greenwood
If you just stay in Waterdeep and surrounding areas it’s perfectly fine.
The parts of it that weren't shoehorned in are okay. Wizards is way too eager to jam every half-good (half-bad, half-baked, etc) idea they come across into FR.
>>60289352They have to test those ideas for market research.
>>60289352TSR started it. Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, even the Moonshaes (to some extent) were originally written for their own settings, but TSR said "shove that shit into the FR, otherwise it won't sell."
>>60287562Nah. Its not great mind you but its far from the worst setting and actually has some fun stuff if you're willing to pick and choose which bits your campaign will focus onThis is an unpopular opinion I think but I actually liked that the gods were actively involved with the setting for once too, most settings have them be pretty hands off for various reasons so its a nice change of pace
>>60287577Darksun and planescape are the only two WORSE than FR, at least until Pathfinder came about.
>>60287562Azeroth is probably worse.
its shit but>dragonlance exists>azeroth exists>golarion exists>shitty homebrew origami donut steels exist in thousandsso nope, not worstunfortunately human capability of spawning crap is seemingly limitless
>>60287705Complete ignorant here.What fetish bait?
>>60291520Orgies and incest are common, they also have religious significance.
>>60291520The current Forgotten Realms material is highly sanitized from Ed's original vision. In FR as created by Ed (and all entirely canon due to contract reasons- Wizards can't actually contradict it without giving up the setting to Ed):Bi-sexuality is normal (and yes, this means the men as well as the women)"Revels" (sex orgies) are normal"Festhalls" (brothels) are in every small village and visiting them is normal way to spend evening.Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"Public city-wide orgies are the way to celebrate major holidaysAll of this is confirmed by Ed Greenwood himself, from Ed's responses to fan queries on the Candlekeep forum.
>>60291520Forgotten Realms are Ed Greenwood's magical realm cleaned up by TSR and later Hasbro for general consumption
>>60291534>>60291550>>60291566I was expecting something with Drows or any wierd kind of monsters, but that's a very surprising thing to hear.Thanks for the info kind anons.
>>60291550Your sanitizing him as well, you didn't mention the cuckolding, pregnancy, fat, etc, fetish.
>>60291550>Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.This is historically accurate, at least.
>>60291800Anon, farming was the main industry historically.
>>60291632That too was FR? I thought that was just Golarion
>Alustriel takes many lovers for short periods of time, and is one of those rare kind, understanding, warm people who has the knack of staying close, affectionate friends with former lovers, even in the presence of other ex-flames. In fact, it’s quite likely that any meeting of courtiers will contain a majority of folk who have visited the royal bed or baths at one time or another -- and most of them remain fiercely loyal to Alustriel and to her dream of Silverymoon. (In fact, some cynics, such as Torm of the Knights of Myth Drannor, believe she deliberately seduces political foes to transform them into personal friends.) The fact demonstrably remains that to attack Alustriel in Silverymoon will be to evoke immediate defense of her person by dozens of champions who will lay down their lives to protect hers>The original Mystra seemed to encourage Alustriel to have children (why? Hoho! SO many mysteries, waved before you!), because she conceived every nine months and a day or two, giving Faerun a succession of healthy males in a series of easy births (and being little constricted or uncomfortable while pregnant, because rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all over, and retained her poise, balance, and activities).
>>60291893Fucking Ed was the horny book nerd growing up who channeled all his sexual frustration and angst into his fantasy world. He was a /tg/ autist before the internet concept even existed.
>>60291835I meant that the vast percentage of medieval population was in formal or informal sex trade and there was a very common theme of prostitutes holding nominal jobs for the purpose of dodging taxation. The traditional tavern wench was a prostitute. Actors were usually male prostitutes. Seamstresses being prostitutes wasn't a Pratchett joke. Cities with lively maritime trade were literally crawling with sex workers of all stripes, rivaling or exceeding the number of respectable residents.
>>60291893>giving Faerun a succession of healthy males in a series of easy births (and being little constricted or uncomfortable while pregnant, because rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all over, and retained her poise, balance, and activities).Does Ed think pregnant ladies have fat in their bellies?
>>60291893>rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all overWhat in god's name.
>Forgotten Realms is a magical realm!>It's the most tame fucking magical realm on the planetYour average /tg/ DM has ten times worse of a magical realm. What's with the weird prudishness?
>>60292060It's the worst of both worlds, creepy and clammy without anything actually exciting happening.
>>60291893>. (In fact, some cynics, such as Torm of the Knights of Myth Drannor, believe she deliberately seduces political foes to transform them into personal friends.)I mean, it worked for Catherine the Great.
>>60292079At least if it's a /d/m you know for a fact that succubus is hiding a horsecock big enough to bludgeon an ankheg to death somewhere under that dress - and she's not afraid to use it that way.
>>60292109No, I meant like, if all of Corelon's cult members and favored souls are dickgirls and cuntboys, that changes something notable about the setting. All Greenwood does is enable that one guy who talks about looking for a brothel every time the party enters a settlement.
>>60292203I had a DM who tied a homebrew fate point system to brothel use and kind of 'hinted' we should make use of it.He stopped when I rolled an 8 year old girl for my sorceress.
>>60292470I forgot to add: none of the players wanted in on this shit but were liking the game otherwise. Net result of my reroll was he tied that fatepoint system to 'well rested' instead.
>>60287562Age of Sigmar exists.
>>60291390>dislikes the two best D&D settings... I'm morbidly curious which setting you prefer?
>>60292609Planescape does tend to attract the worst DM's though.
>>60287562No, that would be DragonLance, which is too wrapped up in its own continuity.>>60292514I was never a huge fan myself, personally. Or Planescape.>>60292609Between the two, Planescape, as I do like how it ties into other settings and allows for big planar adventures. But the way Planescape does that - a city of portals - is a distant second to me when compared to Spelljammer, especially if you run Spelljammer with the Spider Moon supplement from 3e (the only semi-official update Spelljammer ever got since being discontinued).
>>60292700I'll concede that, the amount of times I've seen players stranded to the point of forced reroll in Victorian London is far too many for my liking.There's a reason I'm forever DM'd
>>60287562It's a mediocre fantasy kitchen sink with a focus on deities and Ed's fetishes. So pretty much your normal /tg/ setting.Not the best thing ever, but there are FAR worse settings out there.
>>60287577It would make more sense for Adventurer's League to be set in Planescape. Planescape Factions are so much fun and the scope of what adventurers you could have is much bigger.
>>60292723Derp, for some reason I misread Planescape as Spelljammer.I still concede that on Planescape though, because of how dogmatic people get about the alignments.
>>60292723Alomst all I've heard from people who've played in Planescape boils down to:"You can't do anything at all because Lady of Pain doesn't allow it! You are tortured to death!"But, in Planescape's defence, it lacks Kender.I wonder if there is a relation between Planescape-GMs and Kender-players?
>>60292749Probably a strong correlation, yes. As much as I'm not all that fond of 4e, I did appreciate that 4e gave her stats and made her actually killable. My memories of Planescape are: Setting was cool but people would get butthurt and whiny over constant arguments of alignments - but I'd even take that over forgotten realms. Tomb of Annihilation made me hate Chult, my DM and Femdom fetishists.
>>60292787Really? I'm looking forward to playing in Tomb. What's so bad about it?
>>60287562It's not bad, it's quite fine if you need a generic yet developed world for your adventures. My only problem is how there are so many lore it gets a bit hard to develop your stories, the fucking rock in your way has a 90 page lore and a book series with 20 books with 400 page each.>>60291390>planescape>dark sun>two best settings with legendary art and originalityI got baited.
>>60292787I use FR mostly because of the maps.Then I spent a series of campaigns un-retarding the setting.>Tomb of Annihilation Haven't played this one.Speaking of settings, as a kid I loved Mystara (at the time called The Known World) but looking back, the setting, although full of cool ideas, really doesn't hold up very well.
>>60292834Mystara is one of those settings where I don't get why people speak of it like it's the greatest thing ever.Is/was if it fun? Sure, but we were also kids back then. It's just such a kitchen sink setting and it doesn't even try to make anything mesh together.
>>60292808RAW the module's okay, but there is a scene with an insane bitch who believes herself to be king of all humans everywhere. If your highest CHA party member doesn't let her fuck them (she doesn't care about gender), she will date-rape them. She also is protected by, and has the backing of, a local and powerful aaracockra community who will drop the whole party off a cliff if they don't pander to her and acquiesce to her every whim.Other than that scene, I'm just salty at my DM who uses the module as an excuse to zerg rush players on death saves to stab them to death before they have a chance to stabalise or be bailed out by party members.
>>60292856Yeah, that's pretty much my conclusion as an adult.I started playing in 1982 at the age of 12 so I wasn't all that critical about analyzis of stuff.Then, as time went on stuff just couldn't hold together.Ylaruam (Arabs) living next door to Vikings, Hindustan-expy around the geographical equivalent of Texas, hollow world and so on.All squeezed onto a continent more-or-less the same size and shape as North America.Rumours have it it was basically all the different campaigns of various developers, all squashed into a single setting.Add overlap with Greyhawk, which I find very dull, through the whole Blackmoor-thing and, well, as much as we had great times in Mystara, I just can't go back anymore.
>>60291893Torm's probably on to something.>The original Mystra seemed to encourage Alustriel to have children (why? Hoho! SO many mysteries, waved before you!)That's not a fucking secret. The entire point of Mystra wasting time possessing somebody to pop out kids in the first place was to produce Chosen with semi-divine bodies capable of handling her essence without spontaneously combusting and exploding two weeks into the job. The more kids she has, the wider Mystra's potential Chosen/minion pool gets.Takes on a darker turn when you consider how her Chosen are basically magical ghosts/parasites (soul + intellect with Mystra's divine essence bolted on) that need to take new bodies when their old ones burn out on them. Bigger pool of bodies = more backups.
>>60292920Hollow world was at least an interesting idea - god enforced racial homogeneity and being essentially on the inside of a dyson shell.A half decent designer/writer could probably turn that into something amazing.
>>60292203One of Greenwood's original players pretty much was looking for a brothel every time. It was his standard way of relaxing after an adventure.
>all this hate for DragonlanceApart from kender, can someone please explain this to me? I've never read the novels, just the setting books (mainly the 3.5 one) and I love the setting
>>60292868I don't remember that at all. Are you sure it wasn't your DM just fucking with you?
>>60292868>That spoilerWhat the fuck? In an official module? None of that makes sense
>>60292962I don't hate Kender, a good smack upside the head usually fixes that problem.You want rage, start talking about Gully Dwarves and Tinker Gnomes. Dragonlance's biggest issue is that if it's not some kind of awesomely badass dragon, it's literally too retarded to breath without choking on nothing at all.
>>60291991>the vast percentageMaybe like upwards of 20 to 30. It is economically impossible for nearing half of a population to be a sex worker for large segments of time
>>60292962>never read the novelsThat's why.Basically consider how people bitch about FR novels interfering with campaigns.The Dragonlance setting and novels encourage far worse fuckery, and how you should basically play out the novels instead of making your own thing.But that's also why both settings' greatest weakness is a bad DM.
>>60292967That's what the DM insists, claims he does everything by the book. But in saying, >>60292965 reaction seems to indicate otherwise. Maybe I should get my hands on the module and see for myself.I do admit, the nine gods are fucking awesome and if it weren't for the fact one of our players fucked up and spelljammed his way to Victorian London with some of them in tow, I'd be looking to try and restore them as legit gods in character.
>>60292868Wait, who is this?The Princess Mwaxanaré? Because those details are something that your /d/M added, all Tomb itself says is that Mwaxanaré is lonely due to being the only humanoid there apart from her younger brother Na, so she might fixate on one of the party members as a potential romantic partner. How she reacts to rejection isn't described, as far as I can tell, so it's left up to the DM. And also the aaracokra aren't slavishly loyal by default, either
>>60293027The aaracockra weren't slavishly loyal in our game, so I misspoke. It's more 'You've come in our house and are fucking with our meal ticket'My DM /d/m'd us? disappoint.png
>>60287562The setting as presented in the original grey box is OK, all the extra detail makes it worse.
>>60293013>THAT CONTINUED SPOILERI don't think your DM actually DMed Tomb of Annihilation, anon.
>>60293100Well, I know for a fact the book it at the table - he refers to it frequently.So... the PCs aren't hounded through the Chultan rainforest by a zombie T-rex that spews out more zombies? Because I'm quietly praying that's not the case because it was fucking retarded.It also denied us the ability to long rest at random and fucked up our camp more than once.
>>60292941Yeah, I think the main problem with MYstara isn't so much the Kitchen Sink-thing (most commercially available settings are like that anyway) but rather how poorly it was clumped together.>>60292962I liked their maps.The modules were very very railroaded.The books...eh, cheap fare.
>>60293050Yeah, as >>60293100 points out, there aren't spelljamers in Tomb. I don't think that needs to be spoiler-text'd.>My DM /d/m'd us? disappoint.png[/quote]He didn't even do a great job of it. Attractiveness should be 10 + better of Strength or Dexterity modifier + Charisma modifier, so the party's Rogue or Fighter should have a pretty decent chance of being more attractive than the Bard. Also it means the most attractive you can be without magical intervention is a 20th-level Barbarian with max Charisma and Strength: 22.That being said, the trope of "crazy princess/queen fixating on the hero and wanting to bang him" is an older than dirt trope, so I can't blame your /d/M. Just watch some old Hercules movies or something and you'll see what I mean.
>>60293188It was more the 'fuck her or the aaracockra TPK you' that pissed me off
>>60293170No, I think that monster is in there somewhere. And it's not retarded, it's metal as fuck.
>>60291550Wow, this is a bigger magical realm than my Free Cities arcology.
>>60293200Why didn't your party lead her on a bit, then make your escape in the dead of night?
>>60292990It is if you're seasonally swamped in horny sailors.
>>60287562I just hate the people that firmly believe Forgotten Realms to be the official main D&D setting, outside of the modules.
>>60293207It shat on our gear, dissolving anything non-magical and proceeded to then roll in its own shit.It did this twice.Things stop being metal after that.>>60293188No spelljammers? even near the very end of the module?>>60293215We did. The aarakockra attacked us for our duplicity. There were rerolls.
>>60293265Wow, your DM sounds like a dipshit.
>>60293260it didnt use to be, but it is now.
>>60293265Just pulled ToA off Rem.uz and read up on Kir Sabal...She's naive and spoilt. She's not insane, she's not fucking yandere material, she's just *spoilt*. And the Aarakockra value their traditions higher than their politics.Thanks anon for... enlightening me.I am now fucking livid though.
>>60293316Whoops, meant to quote this in >>60293421
>>60292990>20That pretty much makes more than half the population, anon.
>>60287562No.Pre-4e, there's really nothing wrong with Forgotten Realms at all. It's only really overly generic by comparison to the settings that came afterwards, settings that aped Forgotten Realms.Forgotten Realms doesn't even come close to the worst setting. For one, there's Golarion and it's related shit-shows.
>>60291550Jesus this post is so full of half-truths and straight out bullshit that I cannot belive that there are autists like >>60291632>>60291800>>60293209>>60291623completely eat it up without questioning it.>Bi-sexuality is normal (and yes, this means the men as well as the women)I we are thinking of the same thread it was basically some autist going ''Hey Ed are bisexuals accepted in the realms?'' and he want ''Yeah sure why not''.To twist this into BISEXUALITY IS THE NORM is quite the stretch.Other than that we already knew that bisexuals exisited there were some character who swinged both ways in a few of the FR Novels.Canon Imoen was in fact a lesbo and had a schlicking session with drow chick in a bath.>"Revels" (sex orgies) are normalNo they are not. They exist, sure. Just like they existed IRL. Doesnt make them normal you SJW-Autist.>"Festhalls" (brothels) are in every small village and visiting them is normal way to spend evening.That is wrong, fake and gay.>Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, Again bullshit. He wrote that prostitutes are common thats not the same as ITS THE MAIN INDUSTRY. Why did you even feel the urge to twist what he wrote so much?> "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.Because there are different languages and different kinds prostitutes are historically correct. The girls in a medieval bathhouse were called differently than your average whore. >Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"Again with the bullshit.>Public city-wide orgies are the way to celebrate major holidaysbullshit.>All of this is confirmed by Ed Greenwood himself, from Ed's responses to fan queries on the Candlekeep forum.No it is you in fact blowing things out of your ass and quite literally twisting that was said in those threads otherwise you would have plastered screenshots of that you humongous faggot.
>>60291893Nothing about this is new. Alustriel, Simbul and - shit.. what was that princess from Cormyr called - are known as the biggest sluts in the realms.
>>60287562It's literal generic fantasy
>>60293890Alusair Obarskyr, who would later become the Steel Regent.She was just as sex crazed as her father.
>>60293890Alusair. She takes after her father, who was a massive slut himself and fucked his way through at least two generations of the entire Cormyrean nobility, let alone other nations.
>>60293931>>60293929>>60293890>There's a general belief in the kingdom (that's not far beyond the truth) that almost every major noble family -- to say nothing of many lesser nobility, and commoners, too -- has at least some of Azoun's blood among its progeny.>One much-retold tale concerns an annual spring "promenade" at court, wherein young noble lordlings and ladies are presented to the King for the first time. This is their "coming out" in Suzail society after they've passed puberty, been trained in etiquette and whatever interests they show aptitude for. Their families desire them to have a higher profile so they can gain social connections and influence in the realm. It's customary during such promenades for the younglings to be announced by heralds (in the order of their birth, eldest first) and paraded one-by-one in their finest garb through the throne chamber before the enthroned king and all who desire to attend. It's also been customary for Vangerdahast to stand behind the throne, staring steadily at each of them (and, so the rumors run -- correctly -- mentally co-ordinating War Wizards who are scrying, prying, and spell-recording the images of every young noble). It's usual for many of the young nobles to resemble Azoun in some way, but on this particular promenade, almost all of them looked very much like the king. In the silence that followed the last presentation, ere the King rose to invite the assembled into adjacent state chambers for revelry, to meet "the bright new blood and hope of the realm," Vangerdahast was clearly heard to remark to Azoun, in carefully neutral tones -- "Moderation, my liege?"
>>60292996>Basically consider how people bitch about FR novels interfering with campaigns.Because they are retarded. No one bitches about the Warhammer-Novels interfering with wamham but oh no, if its FR its suddenly a problem.>The Dragonlance setting and novels encourage far worse fuckery, and how you should basically play out the novels instead of making your own thing.CITATION FUCKING NEEDEDThat there are some campaings or fluffbooks that give you plothooks into incproporating well known characters as NPCs into your campaign is not the same as someone standing over you and forcing to make Raistlin or Elminster show up and fuck you in the ass with their massive archmage-cocks, jesus christ. Am I really the only one who finds it mindboggling how autistic some of you spergs are when it comes to OPTIONAL material?
>>60293946Azoun was truly the greatest slut in all of Faerun.
>>60293976Potent virility, too, it seems.
>>60293351It is the setting for the 5e modules, it is not the main setting for all of D&D for all of time. It's not even the main setting the 5e core book, it has no setting.
>>60293946>There's a general belief in the kingdom (that's not far beyond the truth) that almost every major noble family -- to say nothing of many lesser nobility, and commoners, too -- has at least some of Azoun's blood among its progeny.Yes and? We already all knew that. Cormyr is quite literally medieval Britannia with all fuckups and drama that comes with it.What are you trying to tell us here other than ''Whoo there is a rumor about the 2nd most paranoid wizard in the realms after Halaster to keep tabs on who might be one of Azouns bastards in case shit goes down''?
>>60293910I wish.Then we'd have less people bitching about guns in fantasy settings.Or airships.Or general interesting tech.
>>6029394740K is big enough that nobody cares. Most people are chumps that will die anyway.
>>60293995One of Greenwood's writings puts out the joke/rumor that Azoun was blessed at birth, but it's hard to tell if it was Sharess or Chauntea who blessed him given his sexual energy and ability to impregnate women with an alarming success rate.
>>60293947Because nobody plays ham-slammer for their epic OC heroes, you dingleberry. Warhammer has you either playing the big dicks or explicitly playing underneath the big dicks. Compare this to Forgotten Realms where you're supposed to be this big kingdom-saving badass but you always know the only reason you're even forced on this quest is because Whitey McMage is ball's deep in some Avatar of the Magic Goddess and can't be bothered to pull out long enough to snap his fingers.
>>60293976>>60293995No that is still Alustriel or possibly Mystra it gets complicated since there are multiple Mystras.
>>60294002>2nd most paranoid wizardDidn't it turn out that Vangey cursed Alusair with sterility to prevent a second Azoun scenario?
>>60294003>Quote from Drizzt talking about how engineers should be watched carefully because they might try to make everybody in the world equally deadly
>>60294041She downs a contraceptive herbal tea almost daily.
>>60292932Greenwood does talk about how his Realms tend to be darker with far more fucked up implications than he was allowed to publish under TSR/WotC
>>60294021Whatever it was, he passed it to both his daughters. One got pregnant from her literal first time, the other needs to be continually watched just in case.
>>60294022>Elminster exists somewhere in the world, therefore none of my characters accomplishments mean anything, even if they never interact with him at all
>>60294052I'm kind of surprised a pinch of pennyroyal in your morning cup can stop the mighty war-spheres of impregnation that must be ready for detachment in that woman's womb. This is as absurd as suggesting Zeus can be stopped by a condom.
>>60294051I've read most of the Drizzt books, and that line was my candidate for peak stupid in the series.
>>60294083Well if Tanalasta got the impregnation genes, Alusair might just have the endless sexual energy genes.
>>60294007>40K is big enough that nobody cares.Are you serious? Is this somehow supposed to be an argument how FR isnt? Again, are you autistic?>>60294022>Because nobody plays ham-slammer for their epic OC heroes, you dingleberry.The same goes for FR. I have been playing since fucking AD&D and no one ever went WHOA THIS SURE NEEDS DRIZZT TO SHOW UP TO FEEL LIKE FR. So what the fuck are you actually going on about?>Warhammer has you either playing the big dicks or explicitly playing underneath the big dicksIt is literally the same with FR.>Compare this to Forgotten Realms where you're supposed to be this big kingdom-saving badassOh so you never played a Tabletop-Game set in FR. Well then what are you even arguing about if you clearly don't know shit about the topic?>but you always know the only reason you're even forced on this quest is because Whitey McMage is ball's deep in some Avatar of the Magic Goddess and can't be bothered to pull out long enough to snap his fingers.You always know the only reason you're even forced on this mission is because PRIMARCH is ball's deep in some WARP-SHIT and can't be bothered to pull out long enough to snap his fingers.Woah completely different story there I totally see your fucking point. Oh wait hold on its just you being retarded.
>>60294105>Oh so you never played a Tabletop-Game set in FR.Well fuck you buddy, just because I never played a game set in FR doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the topic.
>>60294105And that's why the real weakness of the setting is a shit DM who just wants to jackoff to the setting instead of using it to game with his friends.
>>60294070Once you raise above the level of local tough guys, yes, someone somewhere doesn't have better things to do than to watch you, and sooner or later the Harpers will feel they have a right to get involved. The setting is soaked with powerful individuals and organizations who all have networks of informants plotting against each other. It's like playing EVE Online and expecting to build and pilot a titan without ever interacting with another player.
>>60294153Is there a context for the pic?
>>60294105Are you seriously comparing an entire galaxy with one meager tin pot little fantasy planet?
>>60294120This is perhaps the most 4chan post I've ever seen.
>>60294083>just a pinch
Can someone explain to me why it's called forgotten realms, who has forgotten them?
>>60293853Festhalls are quite common an real, anon.
>>60294171Going off the 5e guideline for "area of influence" PCs have, at a guess the Harpers probably will be watching you past about level 8-9. Past 16-17, likely Elminster and his peers.
>>60294222I thought village brothels weren't real, but you very likely had a village whore who worked her custom out of her house.
>>60287562Your mother's bedroom is the worst setting ever, you scrotalmuncher.
>>60294070The moment you start dealing with region-level threats is the moment that yes, Elminster really doesn't have anything better to do, and it's up to you to fix the problem.
>>60294171>I should stop playing Wamham because the Ultramurfs and the Chaosgods are aroundYou just rephrased the same shit you already said and it still doesn't make a better argument. Are you really too thick to understand that?You treat it as completely different thing because you like one setting and dislike the other. Thats all there is to it. Look how your argument completely falls apart under the tiniest of scrutiny.>>60294181Are you seriously going to move this goalpost even further?
>>60294255What goalpost? My first argument was that 40k is simply bigger than an insignificant little planet and that most characters are destined to die anyway. My argument hasn't changed at all.
>>60294246I dunno, scrotalmunching in OP's Mother's bedroom still sounds better than playing Dragonlance.
>>60294222>>60294236>Festhalls are quite common an real, anon.Citation needed. We know there Festhalls in a few cities where Sharess is popular but thats it. Thats a long road from being common.
>>602942852nd edition Forgotten Realms.
>>60294271How does that change where the Ultrasmurfs/The Chaosgos/Your mum can show up?>>60294229>>60294254Which you can or can not treat as plothook and implement. If this was the case then there would be no villains in FR in the first place.Once again the whole argument seems to be ''I am too autistic to handle optional things as optional''
>>60294285I wasn't talking about FR, I was talking about real-life. Prostitution was incredibly common and could be as innocuous as a very "easy" woman.In fact, 9 times out of 10 the inn wenches were available for rental - the innkeeper makes some extra money, and the wench gets a place to stay for free. Puts a humorous spin on the supposed conquest of, "seducing the barmaid," eh?
>>60294305Well then provide the page with the actual citation.
>>60294255>UltrasmurfsWhy should they give a shit what you do?I feel like you fundamentally misunderstand that 40k is constructed to allow stories of decently large size that aren't intruded by other stories.This got buggered a bit recently, but before Girlyman woke up there were no Primarchs to save your ass, there might be Astartes nearby, but that's incredibly unlikely and even then Astartes aren't gods and are very much killable.You can easily have entire sectors, thousands of worlds, billions of lives, hang in the balance without pre-existing lore characters getting involved.The Chaos Gods cannot show up, the Ultramarines are incredibly unlikely to show up and even if they knew what was going on they probably wouldn't.
>>60293853And the IDF comes in full swing. Anon, it's a well known fact that Greenwood is an old perv, it's not se newfangled SJW smear campaign.
>>60294210The canon is that the various universes were once linked by great gateways.Some kind of event happened leading to a destruction of the gateways and divergent evolution in culture.Our world lost its ability to manipulate magic (which perhaps suggests the gateway destruction happened because of our Earth), and it would not be long after that that we had lost all records of those other worlds.It would not be until Elminster himself started feeding information to Ed Greenwood and other writers that we would learn of these forgotten realms.Which if you ever wondered why the books seem to be biased towards Elminster being good/always-right, the canon reason for it is because the only thing we know about FR is what Elminster wants us to know about FR.
>>60294336Space marines are few in number. There are more planets than there are individual space marines. They can't be anywhere at once and the universe is in a state of apocalyptic war. Everything is rotten and corrupted. 40k is literally an universe where the extinction of humanity is a foregone conclusion.
>>60294336>How does that change where the Ultrasmurfs/The Chaosgos/Your mum can show up?It's a matter of expectations. People expect their characters to die meaningless deaths in Only War or Black Crusade, even Dark Heresy can see your "Inquisitor-in-training" die screaming to a pack of Traitor Guardsmen.
>>60292094>I mean, it worked for Catherine the Great.were the horses about to declare war on Russia or something?
>>60292721>disses Dark Sun>likes SpelljammerWew lad.
>>60294400Everyone is always about to declare war on Russia.
>>60294377>>60293853>Pre-internet Grognard quenches his sexual thirsts through writingGod, you're just reminding me of the literal library of trashy romance novels my mother keeps around her house. That stuff is such trash, but they did contain enough sex scenes to get me through that awkward period between the internet and high-speed connections.
>>60294425>mfw the century of war and near-war between Russia and Europe was known as "The Great Game."Perfidious Albion is obviously a Champion of Tzeentch, and the Sick Man of Europe is clearly Nurgle... But who's Khorne and Slaanesh?
>>60294381Thanks anon, always good to learn something new.
>>60294455Austria is clearly Slaneesh.
>>60294455Germany is Khorne, Austria-Hungary is Slaanesh.
>>60287562Hardly, Alagaesia is still a thing. Dragon Riders technically could be the most powerful mortal necromancers in all of fantasy fiction, but Chris Pastrami has no idea what he actually wrote.
>>60294455>and the Sick Man of Europe is clearly NurgleWouldn't the Ottoman Empire's obsession with decadence and the pursuit of petty pleasures pin them as Slaaneshi?
>>60294337>Prostitution was incredibly common and could be as innocuous as a very "easy" woman.That entirely depends on the WHERE and WHEN.I would just like to remind you that there were periods and places where the church preached that you can only have procreational sex only on certain days in a month and while avoiding looking at each others naked bodies through wearing special robes during the act.>In fact, 9 times out of 10 the inn wenches were available for rental - the innkeeper makes some extra money, and the wench gets a place to stay for free. Puts a humorous spin on the supposed conquest of, "seducing the barmaid," eh?This is so wrong its not even funny. A bathhouse/brothel offered some similar services to an inn but they were not the same thing. You seem to confuse those two. There were periods in the late middle ages where citizen frequenting bathhouses where you could eat/fuck/drink/bath - even at the same time - was seen as something normal to do yes. Just as quickly as they showed up the vanished however because what actually killed them were the lumber prices and multiple epidemics of syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases.That said a girl working at a bathhouse where she fucked men for money had a completely different social standing than a whore in a backalley. You could be someone of renown and marry or have the first one as a mistress but if you as much spoke to the second one you were socially fucked.
>>60294510Still a thing? I though he stopped
>>60294581Oh of course, but the setting wasn't retconned into oblivion like it should have been.
>>60294364>I feel like you fundamentally misunderstand that 40k is constructed to allow stories of decently large size that aren't intruded by other stories.Just like in FR.>This got buggered a bit recently, but before Girlyman woke up there were no Primarchs to save your ass, there might be Astartes nearby, but that's incredibly unlikely and even then Astartes aren't gods and are very much killable.Just like a lot of heroes in FR.>can easily have entire sectors, thousands of worlds, billions of lives, hang in the balance without pre-existing lore characters getting involved.JUST. LIKE. FR.>The Chaos Gods cannot show up, Sure they can. Say you impress them and they can slap you with their chaosdicks. Happens all the time in wamham.>the Ultramarines are incredibly unlikely to show up and even if they knew what was going on they probably wouldn't.Look at your whole argument here and tell me again how you totes do not have a weird Doublestandart. Well if the Smurfs have something better to do and dont get involved why doesnt the same go for Elminster? Shit maybe he is in hell. Again. Maybe he has to do with 30 other worldending threats that he cant tend to yours. Its amazing how you can handwave away one but not the other without a hint of irony.
>>60294464Wasnt his post a dead giveaway for you that he doesnt know whack about the topic?
>>60294640The smurfs are 1000 guys in a galaxy of millions of worlds. You have absolutely no sensr of scale.
>>60294384Harpers are few in number. There are more towns than there are individual harpers. They can't be anywhere at once and the realms is in a state of apocalyptic war. Yada yada>>60294390>It's a matter of expectationsSo your whole argument is>me and my players are brainlets so I have to fulfill their brainlet expectationsbecause so far none of these explains why I have to force powerful NPCs intop one setting but not into the other.
>>60294678>muh scaleStill doesnt change the argument. You can have enough places where NPC X or Y isnt because of reasons. Do you actually have legit autism?
>>60294734 >Acussing others of autismNo, you are the only one being obtusse here with your laughable comparasion of one tiny fantasy setting with a galaxy of millions. Funny thing, our galaxy, the real one is even bigger.
>>60294678A few powerful heroes in FR are just a few dozens on a planet with thousands of villages/tombs/forests. You have absolutely no sensr of scale.
>>60294801Those few powerful heroes have many ways to get anywhere in the setting at the drop of a hat.
>>60293853He had a young female mage stuffed alive down an outhouse shit shaft by a tentacle monster that had a tentacle in every one of her orifices in one of his Magical Realm Elminster novels, Shitlord.In that same novel another shadowy tentacle monster was "harmlessly" molesting the entire casts party in a group shower.Greenwood is a weird, fetishy perv and his FR is the most Magical of Realms.
>>60294783>obtusse>comparasion>Funny thing, our galaxy, the real one is even bigger.Oh my fuck, have I actully found a legit underage redditor shitting up a FR thread?How old are you?Do you still like Sonic the Hedgehog?
>>60294817those 1000 guys/chaosgods/primarchs have many ways to get anywhere in the setting at the drop of a hat.
>>60294640I'm not arguing with you against FR, you're just being pointlessly autistic about WH, you've never proved these things don't happen in FR, you just say>WARHAM HAVE SAME PROBLM>No it doesn't.>SEE LOOK FR SAME, SAME! NO PROBLMAnd no, the Chaos god's cannot just "appear" if you were talking about some kind of Daemon you might have a point, but they need an incurrsion, someone to open a portal for them to jump through. They can't just appear wherever they like willy nilly.
>>60294853No they don't, they just happen to be around whenever a writer wants them to in his story, but this does not make them omniscient.
>>60294853They really don't tho.Imperial forces are hindered by vague predictions and the vagaries of warp travel.The Chaos bigshots can only come into real space from warp breaches or stable warp storms.
>>60287611>Dragonlance is far worse in that regard.This. It's like people forget about the Kender
>>60294835What do you take me for? Your bait couldnt be more obvious.
>>60287577Dark Sun is absolute shit tier. The creators decided they needed a world even shittier than GW's IPs and they landed on a barren, shitty desert world. The only good thing about the whole fucking Dark Sun universe was Brom's art.
>>60294705Ancient grognard here.One of the old complaints particularly in 2nd ed was that the novel/metaplot characters were pretty much everywhere and tended to be wildly OP in an era where "builds" didnt exist and the difference between Fighter A and Fighter B was stat rolls and random luck on treasure tablesNPC X has 10 levels on the highest PC because your told to use him to "Humble" your players because reasons the lv12 Drow Ranger can auto-kill anything regardless of health by a % rolls because they wanted to represent the narrative in books where guys die in one clean shot Wizard loved by the authors favorite Deity can automatically remove all your spellcasting ability permanantly with no save if you misbehave [ie try and change the metaplot thus not needing the next supplement they sell you] and see that Spellfire stuff? Elminster has always had it he just didnt feel like mentioning a wildly OP superpower that hardcountered all magic and hes probably hiding 1st ed Psionics too
>>60294965>The only good thing about the whole fucking Dark Sun universe was Brom's art.This, people here are always TALKING about Dark Sun's world, but I've never seen people PLAY in the world.
>>60287562Judging by the popularity: close to the best.Also most of Greenwood's cool and weird ideas got buried over the years or downplayed.
>>60294872>you've never proved something don't happenWell you never proved something dont happen in Wamham either. Or any other Setting for that matter.>And no, the Chaos god's cannot just "appear" if you were talking about some kind of Daemon you might have a point, but they need an incurrsion, someone to open a portal for them to jump through.>''X doesnt happen in Wamham except when it does''I want you to closely read what you just wrote.>They can't just appear wherever they like willy nilly.Sure they can in you can even travel back in time so not only can anyone appear anywhere because MUH WARP SHENANIGANS they can even do so before shit happens.Instead of autistically nitpicking just admit that that you are a hypocrite. Its literally the same shit.
>>60294965original FB was very light in tone you retard newfag
>>60294980>Elminster has always had it he just didnt feel like mentioning a wildly OP superpower that hardcountered all magicBut anon, even when it first appeared it didn't counter all magic, walls of force in particular couldn't be broken by it.
>>60294890>No they don't, they just happen to be around whenever a writer wants them to in his story, but this does not make them omniscient.You mean... just like in FR?>>60294906>They really don't tho.Yes they really do and all prevents it/makes it possible is the DM. You know why? Because its literally the same shit.>Imperial forces are hindered by vague predictions and the vagaries of warp travel.>The Chaos bigshots can only come into real space from warp breaches or stable warp storms.>NO NO SEE THEY ACTUALLY CANT EXCEPT WHEN THEY CANWhere is your argument?
>>60295001What kind of mental condition do you have? It looks pretty bad not being able to distinguish different conversations.
>>60294980>Ancient grognard hereAnd with this I know that you have no argument.>One of the old complaints particularly in 2nd ed was that the novel/metaplot characters were pretty much everywhere and tended to be wildly OP in an era where "builds" didnt exist and the difference between Fighter A and Fighter B was stat rolls and random luck on treasure tablesYes I know this argument is equally as old as it is retarded because what it boils down to is that this is all up to the DMs discretion. You are still arguing about optional content.>[lots of autism]Yes and? Is anyone standing behind you with a loaded shotgun forcing you to use that particular character? Or is it basically just you being making a big deal out of a non-issue through your autism?>I dont like X in the setting>alright dont use X>BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT
>>60295138>Is anyone standing behind you with a loaded shotgun forcing you to use that particular character?No, but the knowledge there are many, many powerful and heroic individuals who are quite active in their pursuits kind of dampens the impact of your own exploits. It's like wanting to be a vigilante in Marvel's New York City; odds are your borough or even neighborhood has one already, so why bother? It turns an act of heroism into "picking up the slack" left by other heroes.
>>60294980>NPC X has 10 levels on the highest PC because your told to use him to "Humble" your players because reasons the lv12 Drow Ranger can auto-kill anything regardless of health by a % rolls because they wanted to represent the narrative in books where guys die in one clean shot Wizard loved by the authors favorite Deity can automatically remove all your spellcasting ability permanantly with no save if you misbehave [ie try and change the metaplot thus not needing the next supplement they sell you] and see that Spellfire stuff? Elminster has always had it he just didnt feel like mentioning a wildly OP superpower that hardcountered all magic and hes probably hiding 1st ed Psionics tooWhy is this relevant? Do you want to fight Elminster? No? Then why does it bother you how powerful his magic dick is?Does he show up in your campaign?Does he even need to show up?Then what kind of bearing has his mere existence on your group?Or your adventure?> because your told to use him to "Humble" your playersI cant wait to see actual proof of that.
>>60295213>No, but the knowledge there are many, many powerful and heroic individuals who are quite active in their pursuits kind of dampens the impact of your own exploits.Why?Do powerful people in any other setting ''dampens the impact of your own exploits''?No?Then why do they do it here?Does it have to do with you having autism?>It's like wanting to be a vigilante in Marvel's New York City; odds are your borough or even neighborhood has one already, so why bother?Then why bother playing in any other setting that has established characters?>It turns an act of heroism into "picking up the slack" left by other heroesThanks for confirming that you dont play P&P because you are too autistic for it. I mean if this is something that bothers you then you cannot play ANY rpg with any established powerful characters around, right?
>>60295373>Do powerful people in any other setting ''dampens the impact of your own exploits''?Other settings either have the powerful people in clear positions of power (lol) and thus unable to get off their throne to do something... Or turn out to not be that powerful at all, being only level 6-9.
>>60295138Except the modules and books were being put out all around these characters. It wasent about selling adventures in the FR it was about selling the FR and as time went on it was focused too much on the setting characters having a similar problem too DL.I dont particlarly care if you love the setting and this makes you lash out. These were the problems we had with it back then and it doesnt even cover all the shit that lead to AD&D dying.>>60295287Want proof?Two of the examples are from the same late 1st ed book. Khelban is supposed to be 10 levels above your highest PC "To humble them" for no particularly good reason and Drizzit gets an autokill chance on anything he attacksInstead of avoiding these wildly OP NPCs that the setting eventually revolves around enteirly most people just didnt bother using the cheap cash grab setting at all
>>60295552>Except the modules and books were being put out all around these charactersI cant wait for you to show me how all the modules and books and then show my how many are built around which character and which arent. Just so we can quantify when the setting is ''all around these characters''. I will wait.>I dont particlarly care if you love the setting and this makes you lash out. I dont lash out I am just tired of the same ill-informed argument making its rounds for the last 20 years and now being revived by redditors.>These were the problems we had with it back then and it doesnt even cover all the shit that lead to AD&D dying.Which were retarded back then and are still retarded now as I said.
>>60295547>Other settings either have the powerful people in clear positions of power (lol) and thus unable to get off their throne to do something... Are they glued to it?Show me those settings where those powerful people are around but completly glued to their throne that the cannot ever move from it so they can '''dampen the impact of your own exploits".>Or turn out to not be that powerful at all, being only level 6-9.Alright. Then show me the settings you enjoy which dont do that. And if I find any character that in that setting that doesn't fit the any of above description it automatically means that I win the argument, right?Because then someone would have to explain why powerful characters in that setting dont bother him while they do in FR
>>60291991>Vast percentageWhere you getting them stats my friend? Where are you getting those hard cold stats from?
>>60295552>Two of the examples are from the same late 1st ed book. Khelban is supposed to be 10 levels above your highest PC "To humble them" for no particularly good reason and Drizzit gets an autokill chance on anything he attacksShow me then.Show me the page.Show me the exact part of the description where it tells the DM to use that character in that campaign exactly in that way.>Instead of avoiding these wildly OP NPCs that the setting eventually revolves around enteirly most people just didnt bother using the cheap cash grab setting at allOkay. Show me which setting you play then which has no powerful character and organizations in it then.
The real problem is that the normal area for FR games is near Waterdeep, which is right in a dozen epic level adventurers backyards. Unless you change the setting, they're right there.
>>60294930A setting that has kender, turboautist gnomes and retard dwarves, and later devolves into split-timeline fuckery? Yes, it's shit.
>>60292868>that fucking spoilerPro tip anon, your dm is fucking with you. I have the fucking book for 5e and that is just retarded insert fetish.The character is a blue blood princess who is from the line of kings who ruled all of chult when their overgod still cared. Through war, guile, and acerack being a cunt, the kingdom has fallen apart and she (plus her brother) are the last royal heirs who are being sheltered by the aarocka due to past allegiance to the kingdom. Granted the book encourages you to flesh out your npcs, but my god is that not how they are pushing her.
>>60296089Here you go you fat stupid piglet. I just wasted a half hour finding this shit.You take your little hooves pound then into your snot and semen covered keyboard to read it and kindly go fuck yourself And why did I do it? To prove something you should already know if you started playing before the MLP company introduced you D&Dhttps://www.google.com/search?q=It+is+suggested+that+DM%27s+adjust+Khelben%27s+level+upwards+to+ten+levels+above+the+strongest+PC,+for+use+in+humbling+"runaway"+characters&prmd=ivsn&source=lnt&tbs=li:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF5Kb5rtHbAhXStVkKHUJ4DKQQpwUIHg&biw=360&bih=560this same blurb should reprinted in the 1st ed guide to the realms but im not driving 3 hours to get that old book and scan it for you bitch ass
>>60296827The absolute madman
>>60294337>Prostitution was incredibly common and could be as innocuous as a very "easy" woman.This.People today often don't realize how anachronistic it is to not have prostitution permeate almost every part of every civilization.>9 times out of 10 the inn wenchesThat's mostly a mechanism to avoid paying taxes on all their side income.
I'm going to be DMing for a group that wants generic D&D, but I can't find a setting that I like. The Forgotten Realms is a clusterfuck and although I liked Mystara when I first started reading about it I'm slowly discovering that it suffers from similar problems. What do I do?
>>60297583>group that wants generic D&DThe answer has already presented itself.Go oldschool and make up your own setting like peopled used to do all the time.
>>60297612Yeah, I think that's what I'll have to do. I guess it shouldn't take too long given that originality isn't an issue. I just hope they like it.
>>60287562Considering it's in a state of medieval stasis and all tech is taken away by a bunch of anarchists, gods don't want the world to advance and overall it feels like nothing is happening...yeah. At least Elminster started to see that the Harpers taking away all the new tech is kinda dickish.
>>60296827So lets sum up the things you lied about Mr. walking talking autism:>Two of the examples are from the same late 1st ed bookIts not its a 2ed Book.Its also part of the main books but in one of the OPTIONAL splatbooks. You understand what OPTIONAL is, right? You know the thing that has been my point. That no one fucking forces you to use it? So thanks for proving my point with your autism.Right here we go:>It is suggested that DM's adjust Khelben's level upwards to ten levels above the strongest PC, for use in humbling "runaway" characters. >suggested Do you know what SUGGESTED means?Once again all you did was prove my point that no one at any point fucking forces you to do it you blithering mongoloid>You take your little hooves pound then into your snot and semen covered keyboard to read it and kindly go fuck yourself No you did it because you had autism and all you did was reveal how full of shit your claims were. A SUGGESTION in an OPTIONAL fucking splatbook is the reason that babyboy feels about there being NPCS\s in the setting that are stronger than him. Jesus fuck anon, do you understand that YOU are the problem? You and people similarly autistic to you?>this same blurb should reprinted in the 1st ed guide to the realms I highly doubt that after all you were not only wrong about it being optional but also about the wording.
>>60297511>This.>People today often don't realize how anachronistic it is to not have prostitution permeate almost every part of every civilization.Why do people like you - who know nothing of european history - feel the urge to share their knowledge about a topic they dont know shit about?See >>60294562
>>60291550so my baldurs gate playthrough where I played a psychotic charles manson inspired bard who went around murdering prostitutes at night was canon?
>>60297583>>60297790Whats the purpose of coming into a FR-Thread to tell everyone that you don't like it because its a clusterfuck?Do you also go on, oh I dont know, /a/ to tell weebs how much anime bores you?>generic D&DSeeing as FR is anything but yeah, you should move on. Try Pathfinder.
>>60297583You could also take a look on Nentir Vale, it's not very detailed but it has the tools to get shit going, essentially it's a canvas with the tools given to you.
>>60298185>Whats the purpose of coming into a FR-Thread to tell everyone that you don't like it because its a clusterfuck?Because it's on-topic. Why are you offended?
>>60294337>seducing the barmaidBut that's the best part of being an adventurer. Let's not spoil the fun by spoiling the open secret.
>>60298039Because it's obvious that >>60294562 knows less than nothing. Thanks for playing.
>>60298039Who cares about facts when I have the truth? History is clay, it's meant to be shaped by modern hands. When history doesn't fit contemporary sensibilities, it must either be proscribed or altered.
>>60298039Which part of his post is wrong exactly?
>>60298381Clearly, the World's Oldest Profession is a completely modern invention.
>>60297511There's a reason this was in all the good editions of dnd.
>>60287562At its absolute worst it's not even the worst D&D setting. FR has some bad points but it was mainly through TSR shoving in all the shit they could and the fact that the setting has been going on so long. I actually quite liked some of the FR campaign stuff from AD&D and it'll always invoke a bit of nostalgia in me.
>>60298514It's a shame WotC is so sex-negative these days, can you imagine a modern 5e book released with Alusair?
>>60294185I love it.
>>60298514So what's the difference between a saucy tart and a wanton wench?
>>60298546>setting has been going on so long.Yeah, early FR is probably the best.>>60298568>can you imagine a modern 5e book released with Alusair?I'd be terrified that they'd fuck up everything but the art.
>>60298833A saucy tart will razz and tease you for a long time before putting out while a wanton wench will put out immediately.
>>602988335) Saucy TartAlthough still a sex-worker, the Saucy Tart is different from the Typical Streetwalker by having a personality; she's smart, funny, and will inevitably cause awkward feelings among your players who will fall kind of in love with the character, and would totally treat her right if she were real, and believe she?d probably love them too. Your standard hooker-with-a-heart-of-gold is likely to be a Saucy Tart, assuming she joined the prostitution trade willingly; if she didn't, then she probably just cries a lot when she's alone.6) Wanton WenchWench also implies sluttiness more than professional fucking, and the wanton confirms it. The Wanton Wench is actually Ye Old Nymphomaniac. She has no sexual boundaries, and her desire to be drilled overcomes her common sense and all social taboos, and will fuck any class, any race, any level. She has been fucked in a 10 by 10 room by an orc guarding a chest 'over the chest, actually' and, although she's not proud of it, she'd do it again if she had to.
>>60294105>I have been playing since fucking AD&D and no one ever went WHOA THIS SURE NEEDS DRIZZT TO SHOW UP TO FEEL LIKE FR. So what the fuck are you actually going on about?Do you realize how many modules have Elminster showing up?
>>60299042Not him, but actually no.I assume you have a list?
>>60291550I still remember hearing that Ed Greenwood, when he was enjoying a bit of success from AD&D, purchased a cabin out in the woods. He's apparently really into nudism and would spend most of his time at the cabin naked. Supposedly he had a huge map of Faerûn on the floor of the cabin and was one day climbing a ladder or hanging over a stair rail or some shit to get a better look and fell onto the map. Apparently, after having the ever living fuck winded out of him, his first thought as he lay there was "Please don't let them find me sprawled naked and dead on top of this giant fantasy map."
>>60299145Greenwood grew up in the "free love" belief sort of thing, it definitely shaped his writing and worldbuilding a lot.
>>60292787...Except 4e never statted the Lady of Pain anywhere. It said that she exists, but that's not the same thing. Hells, the DMG2's description of Sigil is pretty faithful to the original, given the condensed space it has to squeeze it in.
>>60292962For me, personally:>Kender are fucking annoying little shits who're supposed to be comic relief.>Tinker gnomes are even more aggravating than standard gnomes and virtually unplayable, because again they're comic relief.>Gully dwarves are actually worse than *goblins* in terms of being filthy, smelly, stupid trash and, yet again, are a comic relief race.>The relationship between gods and mortals is textbook abusive, and the setting supports the gods as being in the right.>The setting's whole morality with its "Balance of Good & Evil" is absolutely fucked up.>Elves are somehow canonically the Purest Race of Good when literally every bit of lore talks about them being arrogant fucks who're literally little different to the Drow in Forgotten Realms.>The novels literally dictate the state of the setting, so most of the adventures basically have you playing second fiddle to novel characters.
>>60299102It's kind of a misnomer, since most of them are just Elminster's POV in the module for fluff stuff, and then he actually -can- show up if you're a Harper, AND succeed in the quest, AND ask the right question in like two linked adventures.
>>60297583>>60298206This. The Nentir Vale's entire reason for being was to give DM's a solid generic setting that didn't require wading through the clusterfucks of the Realms, Dragonlance or Mystara, but which could easily be tailored to your groups' taste.I cannot recommend checking out the Nerathi Legends articles in Dragon enough; they are literally the only major information we have on the various nation-states of the Nentir Vale World and they really help.Actally, here, this is a good list of the Nentir Vale info in Dragon which actually tells you stuff about the world, even if the crunchy articles aren't much use to you:https://pastebin.com/yshiuMGj
>>60299441>>The relationship between gods and mortals is textbook abusive, and the setting supports the gods as being in the right.By definition, they would be if it pertains to their domains. I mean, unless your perspective is that a god is just a powerful long lived wizard.
>>60299705I was talking about that whole shit with the Cataclysm where the gods:>Gave incredibly vague warnings (everybody knew "the gods are mad", nobody knew WHY).>Took away all the clerics who were still faithful.>Smashed the world with a comet, killing tens/hundreds of thousands with earthquakes, wildfires, famine, drought and pestilence.>Never send the clerics back to tend to the survivors and explain the truth about the fucking idiot who caused this whole mess.>Throw a tantrum and fuck off to their divine realms when the mortals collectively call them out on this shit.And yet, somehow, the MORTALS are at fault here and the gods, who literally could have just sent angels to say "the Kingpriest is deceiving you and is blaspheming against us", are in the right.And so we should want the self-righteous fucking cunts to come back.Fuck that. The mortals survived centuries without "godly magic". They didn't need them.The only use I'd have for a Dragonlance campaign is one in which the PCs are budding gods from elsewhere in the multiverse moving in to claim this world for themselves after the original gods fucked off.
>>60296686Yeah, I kind of worked that out a few posts later. Still unhappy about learning that.
>>60287562No, the setting is quite serviceable. It gives you places to run many types of campaigns and integrates most races, There are stupid bits because of how many people have written stuff for it and how bad TSR/WotC's control over it was, but there's way worse shit. You can play in FR if your DM isn't a complete moron.
>>60292868>That spoilerLoving. Every. Laugh.
>>60300196Well at least your DM introduced a spelljammer. That’s at least a point in his favor.
>>60296827lol fucking this >>60297300>>60297991>autistic screeching
>>60296517Yeah, the focus of most FR adventures is a bit too concentrated. You have this grand, panoramic setting, and 95% of all players will see the Heartlands, Waterdeep, maybe the Silver Marches if we're lucky. Meanwhile, there's anything from a pseudo-Assyria ruled by an insane Gilgamesh, to a merchant country that has orcs as the semi-official army, to a ton of other stuff, and almost nothing of it is ever featured. Heck, even Thay and Rashemen were almost unknown until Mask of the Betrayer. >Elves are somehow canonically the Purest Race of Good when literally every bit of lore talks about them being arrogant fucks who're literally little different to the Drow in Forgotten Realms.Haven't read much of Dragonlance, how much worse are they than the usual "arrogant elves being arrogant" cliche every damn setting has to use? Pretty much every setting keeps elves and dwarves practically identical to the archetype.
>worst setting everWarhammer still exists, my man.
>>60295038It's called being Carnac. It's like being a faggot but way worse.The sperging into 40K lore, the formatting, the not actually listening to what the other person is saying and just rage posting answers, he becomes pretty easy to spot. Remember not to be to harsh, Autism never changes and Carnac's life is pretty much pic related.
>>60300996>HeartlandsI do enjoy games that involve adventuring round the Heartlands though. Especially if they don't really involve too much of Cormyr and they're more sandbox in nature. Even the Greenfields is enough of a blank canvas for you to just throw shit on and you can do all this without one of the 'bigs' of the setting giving a flying fuck. It also resonates well with a lot of players because you can basically stomp round the areas involved in the first BG games.
>>60301103It's okay to have them occasionally, but almost everything focuses on that general region and there is a ton of content there. I liked the heartlands initially - I think I still do if I can bother to go back to FR after 4E shat all over it - but alongside the Northwest it got a bit overexposed imo.
>>60301255The Lands Of Intrigue boxed set was pretty good for campaigns. Amn and Tethyr I particularly like.
>>60291939>He was a /tg/ autist before the internet concept even existed.He, in fact, remains a fa/tg/uy-type autist to this very day. Have you ever seen a picture of him?He's some sort of crazy avatar of neckbeardry.
>>60287611>>60289164These guys know what the fuck is up, Dragonlance is the hardened dingleberry on FR's ass hair
>>60300996Some of the shit I remember them doing: Enslaving humans. Enslaving each other.Fighting an intercine war.Trying to manipulate humanity into wiping out all non-elf races.Causing the Cataclysm.
What I hate is how much potential they waste. Did you know the Realms were the only setting besides Dark Sun to have native thri-kreen until the Nentir Vale came along?
>>60292868>>60293421LMAOOOOOOOInclude me in the fucking screencap, I'm dyingA future classic, right here before my eyes
>>60301886FR had a lot of weird races just scattered all over the place.Bug people, cat people, dark-skinned people who are described as on average taller, faster and stronger than normal humans, yakmen, etc.
>>60289181>Elminsters daughter implies that there is a literal army of female progeny and elminster is fucking at least some of them
I feel like the best part of forgotten realms is the gods. Even the minor ones are usually oozing personality and interesting clerics. What are some fun times you have had in the realms /tg/?>played in a two person campaign with one of my best friends>I was an Imaskari battle mage and he was a Netherese battle Mage>our official backstory was that were liaisons of our respective intelleigence agencies and we were supposed to work together to try and prevent war>it basically became a buddy cop adventure where we ran around putting down rebels, conspirators and anyone who threatened our respective countries>we hired a shit load of henchmen and followers and so many died, we lost at least 100
>>60303473Had a campaign where the characters were all captured and experimented on by a mage for seemingly random reasons. His experiments unlocked powers in them (one character gained an updated version of the Netherese Arcanist class, one character got DBZ-esque abilities, one character got massive auras for buffing armies).Throughout the game the Arcanist was the one who always supported the DBZ-character in all of her antics, despite the fact it sometimes caused issues, and in the few situations where the DBZ character got fucked over, the Arcanist was always there to bail them out (or at least look like the face to bail them out).The DBZ-esque character kept hunting for stronger and stronger people to test herself against, defeating all kinds of tough foes, supernatural creatures, and eventually even fought an avatar of Tempus and won. During all of this she ended up swearing a lifedebt to the arcanist.The warlord was focused more in spreading hope and uniting people into armies to be able to better protect themselves from the various world ending threats that started to show up throughout the campaign.By the end the arcanist had created an economic crisis on the sword coast just so they could come to the rescue of the various cities through magical means (and also start recreating the netherese empire, with flying cities and all).The DBZ character was looking forward to the fact the arcanist was talking about purposefully pissing off gods to get more challenging fighters to show up.And the warlord realized her friends were Evil and Neutral far too late to stop them, so the player just said he was done with the character instead of trying to RP it out.
All this talk of the bullshit magical realm crap Greenwood posts on Candlekeep, yet no one mentions the best part: the person who posts all this stuff is known only as the “Hooded One,” an alleged female player in Greenwood’s home game, who in all likelihood is actually just Greenwood himself playing a woman. “Hooded one,” of course, meaning the clitoris.
>>60299872>The only use I'd have for a Dragonlance campaign is one in which the PCs are budding gods from elsewhere in the multiverse moving in to claim this world for themselves after the original gods fucked off.I'd want to play that campaign.
>>60303673Well back in 2015 he was talking about possibly publishing a series of erotic writings that he and her share and send to one another, since she likes to focus on the more erotic side of things.
>>60297991You lost bruh
>>60294041Her sister Tanalasta was the heir, and Vangy seems to have steps about her fertility in the 'Cormyr' trilogy - she was clearly banging her boyfriend (who turned out to be a traitor using her to assassinate and overthrow her father), yet she didn't catch pregnant despite being with him for months. Yet in the same trilogy, once she was formally married (under Chauntea the fertility goddess), her husband knocked her up on the first go-around (as >>60294061 notes). Alusair follows her father's example and basically shags anything that catches her eye, but she hasn't caught once.Other measures aside, one has to wonder if Vangy's magic is keyed to ensuring the daughters of Azoun IV daughter's have no *illegitimate* issue.
>>60305895You know... Maybe this has less to do with some magical shenanigans, and more to do with the author being hesitant on writing about fantasy abortions and/or single mothers. Why else would she get knocked up from her first night with her husband?
>>60292962I love dragonlance, I loved the cheesy 80's novels and I still doBut it's a bad setting for the players because it has the PC's as second-fiddle to all the badass super OP 40th level god tier NPC's, the moment they become big enough to start being noticed by the big bads, the big bads are also dealing with the likes of Raistlin and such
>>60306002Could be. While contraceptives are plentiful in the FR, we rarely hear of abortion. Though I do vaguely recall Ed writing about war widows in one of his Q&As.
>>60306618>While contraceptives are plentiful in the FR,They are?
>>60297511>prostitution permeate almost every part of every civilization.Get out of here, Jew. Take your ahistorical bullshit adn semitism elsewhere.
>>60296827>>60297991There are 18 mentions of Khelben in the original 1st edition Campaign Box Set, and nothing relates to what is being discussed.
>>60307582Anon said the Guide to the Realms, not the original box set.
>>60300996>Heck, even Thay and Rashemen were almost unknown until Mask of the Betrayer.In terms of setting material, Mask of the Betrayer actually covers jack shit. It's a great expansion to a shitty game, but even the sections in the campaign books covers a lot more, and that's without getting into other official material.If anything, I found the representation of Thay to be a tremendous let-down in Mask of the Betrayer. Again, don't get me wrong, I loved it, but damn I would've wanted to see more substantial things, but you don't even visit a thayan city or proper enclave (the latter which, considering the whole enclave system being a major part in the setting material, pretty much every game is guity of - how many CRPG:s set in the Forgotten Realms in a major city has there been? How many times have we seen a thayan enclave?)And then 4e fucked it all up forever.
>>60307593"Guide to the Realms"? No such book exist afaik. He said "1st ed guide to the realms", if he fails at capitalization I'm just going to assume he meant "guide" in the general sense. >>60307642In CRPG:s, I've been to Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Baldur's Gate, Amn, Saradush, and a host of smaller cities, and I've *never* been tk a thayvian enclave. Feelsbadman.jpg
>>60295001No, honestly now, in Warhammer Fantasy, the gods of chaos (and actually all gods) are gestalts within the realm of chaos. They are not individual personas and them leaving the realm of chaos would be like the realm of chaos leaving itself, since the gods of chaos represents the totality of the immaterium.The only exception to this is in End Times, which was set up as complete and utter fucking nonsense that makes no sense in relation to established fluff, and an active, conscoous attempt to ruin the setting and it's integrity/internal consistency/verisimilitude.The nature of the transmundane/metaphysical, including gods, is completely different in Forgotten Realms visavi Warhammer Fantasy.
>>60294502But Anon, Austria is Germany.>>60293947>Because they are retarded. No one bitches about the Warhammer-Novels interfering with wamham but oh no, if its FR its suddenly a problem.I can't say anything about Forgotten Realms, because I haven't read any of the novels, but I can say that in, for example, Dark Sun, the novels actually have a profound impact on the setting, especially the last one, and leaves the entirety of the setting in a very different place by the time it is over.Sure, you can discount this and play however you want, but if you are the type of person that like to use settings as established, this *is* an issue.And also, the 40k novels *do* shit things up and people *do* bitch about it. For example, there's a scene in one of the more recent ones where Girlyman basically has a conversation with the God-Emperor which absolutely shits all over the tragedy and the established previous fluff, which made quite a lot of people bail on the setting once and for all.
>>60307518The Third Ed. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the biege-coloured tome, has male and female contraceptives listed in the equipment section. They're not particularly expensive, as I recall, implying they're commonly available.
>>60294993It was intended to be a horrible world and its kind of hard to explain to a vanilla player that if you uphold the law your basically evil and are spread tyranny and if you play a cleric you don't get your powers from a god but an evil city managing dragon....and lets just not start talking about magic, if you use magic you are sucking away the remaining life in the world and bringing everything to an end. Oh, and if you play a druid well, tough luck...because magic!Its basically a fantasy version of fallout.
>>60293947>Am I really the only one who finds it mindboggling how autistic some of you spergs are when it comes to OPTIONAL material?If I have to play in a setting and disregard the settings fluff anyway, why not running my own homebrew instead?
>>60303451He’s over a thousand years old. It would be stranger if he didn’t have a bunch of descendants around somewhere.
>>60291503Is this generally the consensus? That homebrew settings are generally inferior to preexisting ones? I’ve always preferred DMing and playing in homebrew.
>>60308990Playing homebrew is the best, but I think the anon is trying to say that most people's homebrew settings are pretty awful and not well thought out. But as long as it works for them, who cares.
>>60287562Considering the absolute shit that has been created by people and put on the internet for the rest of us to suffer through or ignore, no. Probably not. That said, you don't really expect the setting Darkland posted by SkullBaron66 on some forum in the early 2000's to actually be good in the first place and so there's no actual disappointment when it proved to be overly generic or boring. The same thing can't be said about Forgotten Realms.Actually terrible movies made on budget like Things or Bigfoot vs D.B. Cooper never makes anyone's list over the worst movies ever made because there never was an expectation for them to be good in the first place. When a movie like Bright comes out, however, and has big names attached to it and an actual budget and still proves to be a shitty movie (despite being leagues better than Bigfoot vs D.B. Cooper on a techical level) it sticks out as a much worse experience to people. Just the same way, the worst RPG settings aren't found in garbage homebrews but in officially published modules, and among those FR definitely sticks out as particularly bad due to being so insanely generic and bland.
>>60307582>>60307726Turns out he meant AD&D2e city of splendors, book 1, chapter 5.It says Khelben should be one of the most powerful if not the most powerful person in all of Waterdeep, and you should adjust his level accordingly so he can keep PCs in check.However, I would point out that Greenwood is the second writing credit for that box set, and the first credit goes to the guy who would later write Blackstaff and Blackstaff Tower, so it wouldn't surprise me if he has a bit of a hard on for Khelben.
>>60287562I really can't imagine why they spent so much time and effort on this when they already had Mystara, which was fucking amazing and catered to this aesthetic, only better.
>>60310071For one, Mystara was the poster boy for basic, when they wanted a poster boy for AD&D.For two, the first ~4 years of the Realms it wasn't near as kitchensink as everyone seems to think it is now, because back then it was still (mostly) based on Greenwood's notes. When TSR started to realize that everyone buys anything with an FR label on it shit went downhill fast. TSR started shoving everything into the FR and WotC continued this trend, somehow making it worse by also retconning (or at least failing to mention) a lot of the things that actually made FR unique.
>>60309816It has in fact been said that the person in question definitely has a hard on for the Blackstaff, in that he killed him off before 4e could to keep him out of the hands of others.
>>60299872Diddn't Hickman have a meltdown and lose his shit in the 'Annotated' Chronicles and Legends' omnibus books and blather about how all of his deities were inspired by the 'sacred truths' of Mormonism? So, the nonsensical 'God punishes you if you don't get his Holy Message through pure Faith' was basically him shoving a fringe religion with the serial numbers filed off up unsuspecting gamers' noses.
>>60293853>Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"It's not bullshit though it's a direct quote from the grand Whizzard himself.
>>60308990>>60309099I ask because I’m having a problem with one of my players. We took a vote before I started DMing and they unanimously agreed that’s I should homebrew. We’re in the thick of it and he keeps suggesting we switch over to modules so we can do Adventure League. I check in with the other players, they love the campaign, couldn’t be happier. So I start tailoring encounters to give him more to do, try to engage him. He just sits there, bored and quiet. Last session he literally fell asleep at the table. How many of you prefer pregen, and what gets you more excited for it than homebrew?
>>60287562It's an OK setting that been soured by FR fans treating it like it's the holy grail of fantasy settings, and TSR/WotC's terrible writing and insistently pushing it down everyone's throat.
I hated FR at first but now I find it kind of nostalgicpoints of light and golarion made me miss ittoo bad 5e is shit
>>60292721upload spider moon
>>60312893If he wants to do adventure league it's probably because he has specific ideas/builds in mind.I will admit to being biased against pregen adventures and modules and all that, but in my experience the people who clamor for them are the people who pre-read them and want to build characters either around them or around the loot they give.
>>60294381> who is volo
>>60294661But he's right. That's why Mulhoran and Unther have literal real-world pantheons.
I miss Eberron.
>>60312955PoL is a hundred times better than FR ever was.
>>60312955>points of light and golarion made me miss itOdd, I feel the same way about Golarion.
>>60313176Elminster canonically edits a lot of the stuff "written by" Volo in-universe. It was particularly egregious in the case of Volo's "Guide to All Things Magical" where he had to actually put the guy in witness protection for a while.
>>60313359That particular Volo's Guide is still 130 pages long, by the way. And it's apparently only a few bare bones from a skeleton of what he put together.
>>60313271I like points of light alot more than I like golarion, but it still made me miss the realms. I think they deserve to be the core setting for 5e, good decision
>>60313359>>60313395There's another page where Volo mentions the original manuscript even had basic lessons that would let just about any farmer be able to at least learn basic cantrips to help out their life/career.But Elminster was worried that it would lead into far more dangerous research on a massive scale.
>>60313359>To readers who trust in the sword or the dagger and hope to find in these pages a guide to how to lay mages low, I tender the following piece of very good advice: "Wizards? Avoid ' em. I didn't realize caster supremacy was this bad in the lore.
>>60297511>researching history of prostitutionThis is a fun rabbit hole to go down intohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_ancient_Greece
>>60313677It is and isn't.Elminster always says DON'T FUCK WITH MAGES, but then there are examples of mages just getting knocked out in a single hit, warriors who just power through spellcasts, and the (in)famous witchweed that just fucks casters by being around. So it seems more like Elminster just hates the idea of people learning how to fuck mages up.
>>60313852Post examples pls, because it’s common knowledge a mage can get knocked out in a single hit. This isn’t a novel concept nor a mark against them.
>>60313913Witchweed is from Chessenta and featured in AD&D Old Empires.The shadowking novels have a big chultan warrior who just uses pure willpower to fuck over zhentarim magic.AD&D Shining South has an example of a barbarian who is just immune to ALL magic whatsoever, even spells that don't allow saves of any kind.And the early mentioned Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, has example powers that 1% of the faerunian population can develop, include 3 anti-magic powers as I recall.
>>60313677Elminster IS a wizard. He also worships, is a Chosen of, and has fucked/been fucked by the goddess of Magic. He's obviously going to be biased in favour of magic, and he never tries to deny that.
>>60287562I've always dubbed it Forgettable Realms. I mean there's a lot of absolutely awful stuff in it, any of Ed Greenwood's personal babies just reek of pure and utter garbage, the absolute worst, but overall, it's just pure mediocrity. Utterly forgettable. What bothers me most about it is its fanbase. It truly disturbs me how many people are so desperate for anything generic fantasy that they just gobble up all of the Sword of Shannara tier diarrhea shoveled out to them with the label "Forgotten Realms" on the cover. It's truly a grotesque, stomach turning spectacle almost as bad as the Star Wars Extended Universe cult, but let's not get into that tier of hell.
>>60313852Partly because people who think they can fuck mages up easily will obviously start chasing after the big names to make a name for themselves, forgetting that just because they know a few tricks it doesn't mean that they're actually ready to play in the big leagues. Prompting said targets to wipe them off the face of the planet as an object lesson.Mordenkainen has a similar comment about the Robe of the Archmagi, and how he's lost track of the number of scrub-tier wizards he's had to obliterate over the years just because they found a Robe of the Archmagi or some other trinket and thought it made them hot shit, and that things might be better off if nobody was stupid enough to call it that (before commenting that he does find some variants to have useful enchantments on them).
>>60313271This. Faerun is fine for what it is, but it suffered badly from trying to "update it" to 4e instead of being left to its own status quo like Eberron and Dark Sun, and the Points of Light are a far superior base-line setting for 5e.
>>60313677Elminster is not a good example. He's literally chosen by the goddess of magic. There are other examples of "caster supremacy", but it's really no more common than any other "chosen by fate", or "prophet of the divine" or "leader of the free world"-general type character that are used as vehicles for plot and live and die as needed.
>>60314991FR was too good for TSR, and was too good for WotC.
>>60297583>What do I do?W I L D E R L A N D S
>>60293853>>60294222>>60294377>>60294432>>60294823>>60312633Not a single screenshot or link posted as evidence. I'm willing to believe, but so far you're not convincing.
>>60300996>a merchant country that has orcs as the semi-official army,Thesk?
>>60303473>What are some fun times you have had in the realms /tg/?Related to the fun gods, we ran a group of LE "Clerics" (Leadership focused mess of classes) of the Red Knight that covertly started several wars in the area around Chessenta and the Border Kingdoms in an attempt to: >1) Get business for our mercenary company>2) Leverage said mercenary company into our own fiefdom >3) Impose order in fractious and volatile nation states. >4) Leverage the wars and personal power to promote the worship of the Red Knight and get her from a Demigod to DeityEnded up turning into a religious war/crusade between the followers Red Knight and Garagos, as followers flocked to him to try to counter our expansion. Went well until several nations got sick of the war interrupting trade or decided we were building a puppet state for the Mulhorandi because of their history with the Red Knight and funded a Tempuran led campaign to end the conflict. Tempus' involvement fractured our power base between the Traditionalists and the Red Knight Purists and we got pushed back while the Garagosians got wiped out.It was our first attempt at political/massive military type campaign and it was ridiculously good fun, even if it wasn't strictly lore-correct.
>>60317337Wilderlands of the Magical Realm?