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Thoughts on the design of 5E?
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>>60802869
You know, I find you disingenuous. You start a thread with an ostensibly neutral information-seeking question, but your choice of picture betrays your biases. You don't want a fair, balanced discussion of the good and bad things about the system, you want to angrily tell people that what they like is shit because of nebulous reasons you will fail to fully articulate and will instead fall back on emotional appeal and invective to make your "point", such as it is.

I don't even care for 5e. I care for fair and balanced discussions that lead to a productive goal and plenty of intelligent dialogue. None of which will be found here. Away with you, shitposter-kun, your kind is welcome here.
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>>60802916
>fair and balanced discussions
>on 4chan
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>>60802916
Fpbp
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>>60802869
>>60802916
Even the bait picture isn't even that accurate. 5e has way more rules for Interaction compared to Exploration. There's stuff in most classes that'll let you give you something to do in a social setting, but there aren't any distinct rules for 'exploring'. A Ranger with the Outlander background pretty much eliminates any sort of actual interaction there would be in that area, and if you don't have one then everything else boils down to Survival checks.
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>>60802916
"Fair and balanced" discussion, also known as a great big waste of time.
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>>60802980
It's too long, and it's missing costanza
6/10 at best
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>>60803053
You're a waste of time, cunt, fuck you.
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>>60802916
>your kind is welcome here.
Considering how many bait threads hit bump limit on /tg/ I'm not sure if this is a typo or not.
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>>60803053
But mindless shitposting somehow isn't
neck yourself
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Here's a question to you, anons, what would you add to fill out the game's Exploration and Interaction pillars?
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>>60804401
Stats for how many catgirls I can bed at once
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>>60802916
I love how brutally blunt this is.
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>>60804401
What needs to be done for interaction? For exploration I'd remove all those low level spells that makes food not a problem, second I'd remove all those low level spells and abilities that say you never get lost.

Third, I'd be a better DM and reward exploration if that's what I wanted to run.
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>>60802869
It's epic.

Allow me to explain, a few things on thsi world are extremely fricking epic.

Drinking a soya based beverage with your wife's mulatto son while you watch avengers: age of redditron.

The screamss of your wife as her boyfriend fucks her all night long.

D&D5e podcasts (critical role is so fricking epic mercer is such a good GM).

D&D is great, epic and goodly balanced.
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>>60804401
The main thing I would say for Interaction is to give some extra definition to mundane skill checks with it. Like allowing Intimidate to Frighten someone, detailing what sort of discount on mundane items you could get with Persuasion, or just better explaining how opposed social checks work. Nothing like detailed tables, but more to just offer some better mundane results

Exploration is more along the lines of what >>60804615 said. A lot of the effects that automatically solve wilderness challenges would need to be removed, toned down, or moved to a higher level. What might also help is better explaining what a Perception check is for and what an Investigation check is for. From there, just add in some mundane items like compasses that aid in navigation.

To take it a step further, perhaps add in some class features that themselves seek to reward exploration. Like letting a Monk regain Ki from travelling a certain distance in terms of a pilgrimage, or letting a Cleric get back a low-level spell slot from finding something of religious significance in some ruins. Do something like that for every class where finding something in your exploration gives you a bonus or resource recovery. Maybe make it once per day so it can't be abused, like if the dungeon is an old temple of the cleric's god.
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I think it's alright. Does what it needs to, doesn't fuck around with what it doesn't.
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>>60804912
That last part sounds interesting I'll add that to my notes.
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>>60805058
Yeah, the more I think on it the more I'm liking the sound of it as well. I think it would work better to encourage exploration compared to the handful of class features that just make survival easier.

It might be better to frame as something that can go over a character's max as well, so that if they're exploring during downtime or travelling over the course of several days, it'll last until they need to use it.
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>>60805104
Like temp ki that lasts until you use it.
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>>60804637
Nice meme!
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>>60805146
Yeah, exactly. A monk would get a few points of bonus Ki on top of their max that would last until they used it. And as for getting that, it might involve visiting the highest point in an area to meditate, finding a very spiritual site, or just travelling for several days and finding an out of the way village.

I think it would feed into itself well, where players would be encouraged to search around and check for such places, and the DM would have obvious locations to dangle plot hooks or hide clues and treasure. If the highest point in the city is a belltower, for example, maybe somebody ends up trying to steal the bell while the monk is there, or there's some riddle inscribed on it.
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>>60803034
This. I've run sessions that haven't contained any combat and are purely socializing and interaction. There are usually rolls made and abilities used but it's possible for there not to be. There aren't a ton of rules for it, but it works itself out.

Exploration there's like, nothing for. Exactly how do you make "You're walking through a jungle, walking around, trying to find the path, you're a little bit lost, oh there's the path, and there's the thing you were looking for" interesting in its own right without involving combat? How can you actually have a meaningful chunk of a session focused on exploration? Not asking rhetorically, I'd honestly like suggestions.
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>>60805263
Resource management and gold as a exp
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>>60805263
Yeah. Most classes have a couple things that tie into interaction. Even a Battlemaster has its weird ability to size people up at a glance.

Exploration abilities boil down to 'you can track things', 'you can move faster while not being tracked' and 'you don't need to worry about food' for the wilderness. Even in a dungeon things aren't that much better though, as everything there is just about being better at seeing things in the dark or in general.
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>>60803034
This.
D&D's wilderness survival rules have been fucked to shit and that's part of why rangers have been shit since 2e.
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>>60805277
Play a scene of that out for me. "Player, roll me a Survival check to find the trail. Hm, too low, you're still pretty lost in this forest. You spend all day searching, so that's another day's worth of rations gone for you. Now it's the next day, make another Survival check."
Like it's easy to say "Make it about resource management" but what does the actual play of an exploration-focused encounter look like? "You're lost on your way toward your destination" is an interesting enough premise, but how do you make it interesting *gameplay*?
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>>60802869
I just use an altered version of the 3 pillars XP from the unearthed arcana playtest. Handle xp based on encounter difficulty instead of per monster, and handle social/exploration xp pretty close to the same.
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>>60802916
Fpbp
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>>60803061
it's still the best post
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>>60805396
The trick is that I play systems that have mechanics for exploration, if you wanted to port their mechanics to 5E you could do so. See how B/X handles dungeon exploration
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>>60805396
Not him, but one thing that springs to mind would be environments of extreme cold. Heat as well, but not to the same degree. Cold fits better because while there's less of a concern for water, there's usually more ways to interact with it. Try and find a cave, build a fire, hunt some deer, go ice fishing, collect wood from trees, bury yourself under the snow for insulation, stuff like that.

Granted, that only works because it's easier to justify the loss of hitpoints in such an environment alongside the effects of exhaustion, thereby making the cold something that can easily threaten to kill the players while still having countermeasures in the environment that they can turn to.
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>>60804401
Wizards no longer learn spells by leveling up. They must go out and find them.
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>>60802916
Fpbp. You'd think the shitposters would be more creative with their bait. OP's isn't even entertaining.
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>>60802916
>I care for fair and balanced discussions that lead to a productive goal and plenty of intelligent dialogue.
>To that end, I will write a long and pointless post which garners only replies of 'fbp' instead of anything of worth.
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>>60804615
There are undoubtedly ways to make social interaction more meaningful. As it is now, it's basically just freeform RP in which the DM may ask for a Charisma check, or it's the opposite in which it's a Charisma check with some incidental RP attached to it.

Plenty of other RPG systems attach more meaning to social stuff, as a pillar of gameplay. Just as an example that might not work for D&D, Exalted gives the players the choice to pick as many ties and principles as they want (which are effectively like the bonds and ideals for 5e). These work as both strengths and weaknesses in social interaction, as they are mechanics that can make your attempts at interacting with people more powerful if those ties or principles are relevant. However, they can also be targeted by others in social interaction, so somebody can play upon your tie to either ruin your own argument or try to convince you of something.

The DM can kind of do this in 5e by making bonds and ideals and things like that come up in social interaction, but there are no rules in the game itself for it. Social interaction is incredibly barebones in 5e. I've seen people argue that that's fine and it should be left to RP or whatever, which I guess has some merit, but it's still undeniably neglected compared to combat.
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>>60802916
>I care for fair and balanced discussions that lead to a productive goal and plenty of intelligent dialogue.
Evidently not. You could've easily started one, but chose to get on your high horse and be "witty" instead of saying anything meaningful. I'm fairly confident you are in fact OP trying to stir more shit to get the thread going.
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>>60802916
/thread
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>>60805263
>Exploration there's like, nothing for. Exactly how do you make "You're walking through a jungle, walking around, trying to find the path, you're a little bit lost, oh there's the path, and there's the thing you were looking for" interesting in its own right without involving combat? How can you actually have a meaningful chunk of a session focused on exploration? Not asking rhetorically, I'd honestly like suggestions.

D&D 4e's skill challenges might provide a bit of an idea there (In particular, the advice they gave around the framework is pretty good). D&D 4e was pretty decent on that front due to the way Healing Surges worked. They were ALL your healing for the day, not bonus healing. So getting lost a few times, sweltering in the jungle heat and constantly being bitten by mosquitoes because you didn't handle it well could drain them away and leave your group tired and faltering before a single battle happened.

One of the big rules they stressed with skill challenges: Keep the situation flowing. It's not just 'You are lost'. You've found your way to a river, how do you get across it? If you fail to find a way across it, what is there when you try to go another way? You've fallen into a local hunters pit trap, how do you pull yourself out?

Give a read of the Lone Wolf books as well, they generally had a massive chunk of the book just be about surviving the journey to whatever place was going to kill you for making the wrong decision.
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>>60802916
This has the makings of a truly brilliant pasta
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>>60806234
Why would they be more creative when they know you're going to reply anyways? Seriously, shitting on D&D is an automatic 100 (you)'s by default.
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>>60804401
For exploration: Remove abilities/traits that allow you to regain resources at relatively low cost, so no Goodberry, no Create/Destroy Water, no Tiny Hut, etc. and most of the Ranger's abilities get rewritten so that it's que'd off of Survival rather than being able to instantly gauge how many favored enemies are in an area within 5 miles of their location.

For interaction, get rid of the stupid ass rest mechanic and make it so characters get their shit back by fulfilling certain conditions, like Fighters get their resources back after taking a few minutes to maintain their equipment or Wizards get their resources back by setting up a study and researching their spells and abilities.

Because as it is now, combat is the only thing that truly matters in 5e while exploration and interaction can readily be skipped with either a spell or a class ability.
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>>60804401
Dungeon crawling is exploration. It doesnt specify wilderness exploration.
My games have plenty of dungeon crawling and cave spelunking
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Are there any fan supplements that add to interaction and exploration?
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>>60802965
It's way more likely than you think, newfriend.
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>>60804637
/pol/ go away
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>>60809481
>It's way more likely than you think, newfriend.
Show some threads with actual discussion then fag.
Hard Mode: With 100+ posts
Nightmare Mode: With 200+ posts
Dante Must Die!: That reached bump limit
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>>60809481
The only discussion threads that consistently reach bump limit are the generals. Anything outside of the generals either gets ignored or gets derailed because some autist thought that you were shitting on their pet system somehow.
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>>60802965
this isn't /b/, /pol/ or /x/.
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>>60809793
Could've fooled me looking at the catalog.
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>>60802916
I don’t know why people didn’t let the thread die after this post
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>>60809937
Because then nobody would know that "fpbp"

That and /tg/ couldn't stop feeding bait threads if it tried, it's almost cheating to use D&D because of how easy the spergs get triggered by it.
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>>60802869
If the designers were more honest, the three pillars would look like this, based on how much emphasis they give to them in the PHB.
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>>60810765
>BECMI
>"Ah, an obstacle. Let us pool together our wits, gear and everything we brought from predicting such an obstacle would eventually cross our paths."
>"Good job, team. We did it as a group yet again."

>5e
>"Ah, an obsta-"
>"lol mage hand/prestidigitation/whatever the fuck. Sorted."
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>>60810880
>BECMI
>"Okay gang, we're going to be traveling for 10 days through hostile territory, make sure you buy enough equipment and rations as you can reasonably carry before we set off to our destination."
>"Okay, it was a tough journey, but thanks to our skill and luck, we managed to reach our destination without suffering any casualties and we retained enough resources for our return trip.

>5e
>"Okay gang, what spells do we have prepared?"
>"I have Goodberry/Create(/Destroy Water/Detect Poison up. I also know which way is north thanks to a feat."
>"I have Tiny Hut for when we want to do a long rest."
>"Cool, that means we should still have over 20 spell slots as a group to spend per day in case we run into combat."
>"Man, I can't wait until I learn Teleport, then we can skip this boring ass trek and warp ourselves right to our destination."
>"Wake me up when combat happens."
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>>60810880

that shit is why I really liked D&D 4e's change to magic. You want to do stuff that changes the world? Yeah, that's a ritual and will take time. You don't have half a day to waste setting shit up? Well, go and do it like a normal person and use your brain then.
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>>60802916
Reeeee, someone has an opinion and they put it in picture form. And they didn't say a good thing along with the bad thing like my mom told me!

>>60804637
Fuck off back to reddlt and don't return.
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>>60811233
Your burning cheeks, your tear-filled eyes, your trembling lips - you're very beautiful, anon.




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