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Warmahordes General

Mk3 list building:http://conflictchamber.com

Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
http://textuploader <dot> com / d0thm

PP Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime

Latest Errata: June 2017
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/2017/6.23.2017/Core-Rules-Errata-June2017.pdf

Theme Forces:
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/Theme%20Forces%20Sept2017v2.pdf

Steamroller Rules
http://files.privateerpress.com/op/2017/LnL/Steamroller%20Rules%202017.pdf

Table of contents for all NQ issues
http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues

Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Fluff wiki:
http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

MK3 RULES:
https://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime-Digest-Rules-2016-v2.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal-Digest-Rules-2016-v2.pdf
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web

Retribution CID - https://cid.privateerpress.com
>>
What are your thoughts? Will elves not suck for once?
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>>60805840
>Dawnguard Trident
Literally an Eldar grav-tank. It sounds cool.

Goreshade4 looks worth trying lists for now that he has a defensive feat that actually does something. Probably Dawnguard theme to provide live bodies for souls and a nice Dauntless Resolve target?

But I’m not happy that Force Barrier is being pulled off the Shyeel Battle Mages. If there are rockets around, they’re going to die long before anything charges them unless you’ve paid the Artificer tax.
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>>60805819
My angry elfs are angrier than yours.
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>>60806389
I would be angry too if my faction would be carried on the back of a turtle.
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Did beep boop coc gets no release get any new releases of relevance?
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>>60807286
of course not. Why would you even ask? You know that it was made from the get go to be a limited faction right?
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>>60807286
Dude. At LnL we learned that CoC was supposed to be getting a CID, but that got tabled. Your last release was Orion.
>>
Is there another link to the IKRPG books? OP's link seems to be broken.
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>>60807286
Locke the caster?
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>>60805840
Destors might finally be taken.
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>>60807857
Locke, actually.

>>60807457
They got a new caster with the release of Crucible Guard last month.
>>
Hey I got a buddy who wants to run pure cephalyx and I had a bunch of them plus I have cryx and mercs. If someone was going to go pure cephalyx, ie both casters ina tourney, what types of things should go with cyphon? ET has drudge's and croes, cyphon wants monstrosities but the theme benefits infantry. And any good dominated mercs to point him towards? Thanks in advance!
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>>60812398
If deathclock isn't a problem and you aren't running into any RFP, the zombie girl is pretty good for recycling your drudges.
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>>60805840
Ravyn looks a lot better. The addition of Sprint and not having to pay a Focus tax on Vortex of Destruction every turn means she might actually be able to go on killing sprees more than once every ten games. Open Fire is the real winner though, Retribution has a bunch of myrmidons with really potent guns that will gain a lot from making additional attacks.

Nayl with Countermeasure on him could be funny.
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Can someone explain to me if dual attack allows ranged attacks after a charge? Because if yes, destors just got really buffed.
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>>60815619
yes
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>>60815619
>A model with Dual Attack can make the attacks in any order. If they charge, they can do either melee or ranged first. If you charge and do ranged first, it doesn't change the fact that your first melee attack is the charge attack.
If Close Volley and Lance weren’t strong enough implications already.
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>>60813419
Hes definitely learning clock, it took him 12 min just for ET feat last game. I'll point him towards alexia for next match. Thanks!
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>>60814728
Her output would be much better if you could include Fane Guardian in more themes (Shadows, Legion).

>>60807286
You got Locke and she's S-tier.
>>
Do crucible guard do anything worthwhile in llaelese resistance? I know rockets look bonkers with ashlynn. Thinking of taking alchemists to pair with gorman as well to get some cloud cover for the rest of the army. Does CG help crosse2 or king turd of mercs caine3 at all?
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>>60820798
Sure. I still cast my vote for Protectorate being the best choice of sub-faction in the Resistance, but CG brings plenty of new stuff to the table. I think the Assault Troopers will be great with Ashlynn, Quicken is really nice on them.

>Crosse2
The multiwound infantry love Dauntless Resolve, and it's a pretty tempting spell for the Rocketmen as well. Run and Gun on the feat turn is solid since most of the CG options are rather shooty. Unfortunately I think the basic infantry are the only worthwhile target for Lifebound, which is Crosse's bread and butter.

>Caine3
Nothing is gonna change Caine's performance in mercs besides a light jack with decent shooting. It's too bad we don't get access to the Retaliator.
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>>60812398
Cyphon's big draw is handing out mass Pathfinder, which frees you from having to take Croe's or Nyss just to avoid being completely fucked by difficult terrain. As >>60813419 mentioned, Alexia is a good choice. Boomhowlers are pretty tempting too. You may also want to take a look at the smaller support units, like Aiyana & Holt or Thorn Gun Mages.

I wouldn't go in too heavy on monstrosities, Cyphon doesn't do dick for em outside of the feat. You're still going to want a horde of drudges to form the backbone of your list.
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>>60823062
That's good to know I thought cyphon was the cephalyx "jack" caster so maybe the theme isnt such a gimp to his style. I'll tell him to try out boomie , alexia, and A&H. With a healthy dose of drudges.
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>>60822792
Thanks. I agree about protectorate since the cid I've been using cinnerators with shield guard and bastions with dauntless resolve with crosse2 for fun. As for CG with LR that's a good start man I might need to invest in the army box..
I was hoping there would be more crossover with crucible but I'll take my Toro and be happy.

And maybe one day after steelhead cid we can get a jack like the redeemer or charger. And I can use caine3 as something better than a confidence booster for my fellow players
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>>60805840
Nice to see Gore4 shift towards warrior model support instead of a kitchen sink build, while his Field Marshal gets to stick around.
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>>60824972
I really like new G4, but he somewhat sums up the problem of Ret as a whole - he does a lot of good things, but it's pretty balanced and doesn't rock the meta. Retribution builds nice balanced S-tier armies full of good units and supporty casters, but can't field S-tier shit like Madrak1. And they have problems to account for all of the meta in their pairing.
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>>60827375
Fuck I meant that Retribution builds balanced A-tier armies but autocorrect fucked it up.
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New IKRPG book when? I want muh Ios supplement.
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>>60828242
And I want a group, butt we can't have it all can we?
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>>60828242
>>60829705
I really wanted to like the rpg. The 3.5 setting is what got me into the game. But they really dropped the ball with IKRPG.
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>>60827375
I'd say that's not ret problems but the game as a whole. Having a good internal balance of pretty good stuff that falls short of OP specific builds is what every faction should have.Plus, when your factions good you can spend more time being creative instead of playing the same list over and over again and hoping the meta doesn't evolve. And unless you go to WTC or bust you'll have plenty of fun in a smaller group tinkering and experimenting how you prefer to play vs
Say looking online and trying to justify paying $150+ for like 2 things that you know will be nerfed (derp turtle, gun carriage, sacral vault and 2nd raiders, etc) just to have a shot at success
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>>60823923
both of the Cephalyx casters want a healthy number of monstrosities, but neither will really benefit from going whole hog on them. Cyphon's got a brutal feat, but Thexus gets a lot more out of his BG over the course of the entire game.

If you *wanted* to go jack heavy in Operating Theater, I guess Cyphon would be the better choice of caster but doing so means you win or lose based on the outcome of the feat turn. Adrenaline Rush is good, but pretty one-dimensional in its application - not to mention it burns out your beasties really quick.
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>>60830440
How did they?
>tfw never go to play and it looks great.
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>>60805819
Are elf cavalry not a complete waste of points now?
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>>60831762
The system is pretty shit. I only have the books cause the lore information is great. But I play it in GURPS
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>>60805819
What you guys think of the Khador new Man o War forces?
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>>60831475
Interesting but yeah aggresive reaction, psychosurgery, and TK do shore up alot of weaknesses. Is the paring of both cephalyx even worth it? I have a bunch of merc models and just got enough bunnies to run the ranch so maybe I'll let him borrow gen awesome and let him tinker a list for cyphon
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>>60831973
I think they're legit, scorcha3 fixes lots of the weaknesses of the list and irusk2 turns them into monsters. I'd say the only problem is khadors inability to have a answers list to pair with.

And from facing khador, boy let me tell you a flanking victor is fucking terrifying up close
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>>60831762
Iuno about that anon, but I played a campaign of it and I thought it was pretty good. Some weird economy stuff, like how a basic warjack costs so much you could outfit the entire party in top tier magical gear for less, but other than that it was pretty good. I like the class system.
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>>60831453
Anon, you sumed it up perfectly. The problem is that in our meta some regulars went full tryhard and I feel that you can't freely experiment as you'll get crushed. Also I hate how you can't play against some people just because their prefered lists hard counter anything that you can bring and they refuse to play anything else, as that's not a tournament practice. I don't know what to do about it, as I can't get into an arms race buying stuff that'll get nerfed, so you'd need to buy even more stuff. On the other hand games against people who play once a month aren't fun too.
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>>60832357
>Is the paring of both cephalyx even worth it?
Probably not, to be completely honest. Although they do different things, both Thexus and Cyphon have a tendency to run relatively similar lists. Anything that counters one is likely to give a hard time to the other. Your friend should feel free to experiment with wonky builds, but Operating Theater works best when it runs a ton of light infantry, regardless of who the caster is.

Cephalyx are, after all, just another theme force and shouldn't be played as if they're a mini-faction (although they should have been released as one). It'd be great if they got a third caster who can really amp the monstrosities, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
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>>60835905
This has been very informative anon(s?), and greatly appreciated. I'll be sure to talk with him before next game. He was interested in them after I used overlords with aiakos2 and seems to enjoy the aesthetic. I've never been able to play them very well outside of cryx and bought a bunch in mk2 that currently just kinda sit there. If the general lasts long enough we plan to play a match of aiakos2 vs cyphon Saturday that I could follow up with questions to help him out. And I wont bring eilish garrity again cause he shut down ET throughout the game so he can magic with cyphon and have fun.

I'll still bring Orrin cause I'm not a complete nice guy tho :p
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>>60835162
That sucks anon. Maybe look into vassal so you can scratch the warmachine itch instead of emptying your wallet. Then you can either go full op cod free or play with actual hobbyists instead of being stuck with try hards. Haven't played personally but it looks decent enough to play time to time and I heard good things from others.

Certainly better than the travesty that was tactics.
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>>60836858
Sounds nice, but doesn't mitigate that I am stuck with hundreds of $ in models. I should have focused on board games instead, more variation, lower costs (only a club membership) and less WAAC attitude. I love when I have a balanced match, but in last months most games are very one-sided.
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>>60837406
>WAAC
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>>60837406
I feel like that sometimes, but when you stick to 1 2 casters (assuming their not complete trash tier) you'll find yourself coming back and maybe loosing the first 2 games then beating them after that.

I love aiakos2 and I've mained him since the start of mk3. Everytime someone has the new shiny I get whipped the first time then adjust my list and come back swinging. I've thoroughly convinced a player that "there should be more anti throw tech" after white squalling nemo3 jacks to death while playing scenario instead of derping into lightning bolts. Unlike some 40k lists skill can carry you a long way.

Of course my meta is chill af so theres a reason to come back for more pain
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>>60838082
>there should be more anti throw tech

jfc I hope you slapped that guy in the mouth
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>>60840333
Nah but the silent satisfaction that a nemo3 storm division player (pre nerf) thought there should "be something like hard, but works for throws" makes me very erect.

This was a player who in mark 2 brought haley2/stormwall/galleon w crosse/ pistol ponies and lost my drake macbain and thought drake was broke cuz "how can I stop savio when he cant be knocked down and I have no rfp waaaah".

In short bitches gonna bitch
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>>60835162
That's one reason I am liking these mini factions that they are putting out. Honestly I feel like I should sell my Legion and buy into Grymkin, but I like the models themselves too much to drop them.
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I been out of the game for a while (since a little after MK3 launched, life got in the way) and wanna come back. Company of Iron seems like a great way to do it so I've chucked together a fun looking list and getting ready for a trip to my FLGS some time in the near future.

What do I need to know specifically about Company of Iron?
I've built my list with the adjusted points costs for it, but are there supposed to be tactics cards or something that go with it?
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>>60841547
Warroom supports that stuff I think aka has cards and tactics and you can build lists on it
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>>60842039
Sweet, I was worried I might have to buy the box just for some cards or something.
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>>60842552
You still have to pay to use anything but freebies so like 3 bucks a faction 21 for all
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>>60842678
How do i into grymkin /wmhg/?

Also is it me or beasts are so much more flexible and forgiving than jacks because they don't need rigid plan from the start of your turn with how fury works?
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>>60843541
I dunno if I'd actually call them more forgiving. It's entirely possible to get halfway through your turn and realize ya fucked up and they're gonna berserk next turn or else have to stop what you're doing. Certainly more flexible.

As for Grymkin, there's an army box for em, but make absolute sure you understand they're a mini faction before getting into them, you can't expect much in the way of future releases.
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Elves looking good.

I kind of dropped this game a little, because I cannot for the live of me build a good list pairing for Khador. No matter what I do, I always have that one matchup that is factually unwinnable.
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>>60843616
As a new player it feels like that, at least when i play against them, i just don't have the insight to preplan every turn from the start, while with beasts you have much bigger room for on the spot improvisation. Yet most people i talked with say that jacks are way to go for the new players.

Yeah i understand that, just find the theme and models really cool, but at the same time i can't really wrap my head around how to actually make them work, some of their warlocks feels absolute arcane to me, like dreamer or king of nothing for example.
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>>60843541
Well its a limited faction so its gonna be easy to collect but you'll get few new toys.

Like other anon said the army box is a great starting point. A death knell is pretty awesome. As for casters they're all kinda wonky but child runs them well.

I'd recommend the army box, some people say get 2 but that's a pricey buy in. Just proxy some empty bases and get the feel of what you like or would like more of.

As for beasts being flexible, at a entry level yes. But Jack's tend to be cheaper and the more you get the more efficient they are. Paired with jack centric casters Jack's pull ahead . But for newbies being able to say fuck it I'm all in and getting 5-6 attacks plus accsess to animi can ease getting into WMH
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>>60844113
Quick correction child runs beasts well if that's what your looking for. Although they all do something for beasts
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>>60831762

The system suffers issues from being so very, very based on the TT game. The stuff you do, for example, to deal with high def low arm people on the TT? You can't really have those in most battles. Most people are not willing to grenade their own allies to catch a guy and low arm people have just as many HP as anyone else so splash damage will take a good number of hits before they care. Most battles won't include guys who can boost attacks (While you can boost damage by just charging).

As a result, def-stacking can make you near invincible in the RPG.

In adidition, the basic numbers on skills are all over the place. Many skills are pointless or the numbers off on them that they simply don't work. For example, Interrogation. You have your starting character, he's maxed out his intelligence. He's maxed out his Interrogation skill. He's going up against a human with literally the lowest willpower the game will allow you to start with. Who will usually win this? The guy being interrogated, as he's got bigger numbers at the absolute minimum the system allows than the interrogator.

On top of that is variety of options. Pure martial characters have so, so much less they can do than spellcasters. A guy who went with an agility-focused fighter for example? He gets a bonus attack, that's pretty nice. A warcaster, a starting class? Can just buy extra attacks. The Mighty guy does have better potential damage than a warcaster...but the warcaster can also buy attacks, boost attacks, tank hits and of course, actually control 'jacks. They really needed to give people the ability to do most of the 'caster boosting through other methods so that the agile guy isn't sitting there going 'Woo, I get 1 bonus attack...the 'caster just dumped 3 focus into extra attacks and has 3 of them'.

It's not a bad RPG but it's got serious issues that could do with fixing and most of them go straight back to the nature of it as based on the TT, as an RPG and a TT game work differently.
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>>60843541
Firstly know two things, first - you'll lose to Legion player if there's one in your meta. Second - it's THE tryhard faction, due to the Gotcha! nature of Arcana and other abilites, you can't really play laid back games, let people rewind etc. As for the Focus vs Fury - this is a debate going on from the inception of Hordes and the truth is that Hordes are gimped by other means. But I personally enjoy Fury more, as it feels more aggressive and I can change my plans on the fly, whereas after allocating Focus you can't change that much.

So if you want to start Grymkin, your first buy should be Army Box. Importantly! Don't buy into infantry, beasts are generally stronger and more forgiving in Grymkin. There are some very strong builds in Grymkin, as a starter for 75pts this would be good:

Grymkin Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Dark Menagerie

[Child 1] The Child [+29]
- Cage Rager [14]
- Cage Rager [14]
- Crabbit [0]
- Crabbit [0]
- Gorehound [6]
- Rattler [8]
- Rattler [8]
- Skin & Moans [15]
- Skin & Moans [15]
Gremlin Swarm [0(3)]
Gremlin Swarm [0(3)]
Gremlin Swarm [0(3)]
Lady Karianna Rose [4]
Dread Rots (min) [7]
Death Knell [13]

Embrace that you will be Alpha'd and hide behind Dread Rots (they are there only as corpse fuel for Death Knell), Gremlins and Crabbits. Choose Arcana like this: 1) Discard all the ones that you can't use/don't make sense (Shroud into melee, Shadow into infantry, Sacrifice into RFP). Than look at what the enemy does best and choose Arcanas countering that (Ruin against spellslinging, Fortune's Path against ARM skew, Sacrifice if he doesn't have RFP/Grievous Wounds).
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>>60841547
It has even more rules and weird interactions than WMH. I'd say better way would be to play some low pts game of regular WMH.
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>>60841547
Company of Iron is great. My friend bodies me with his retarded pirate list 9/10 games, but it's still fun.
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>>60841183
Reply - I actually play Grymkin and one of my main gripes are what I said two posts up - you an't play casual game with Grymkin. Tryhards tech against you and try to counter you and won't play something that's not a hard counter against you. Casuals will hate how many strange abilities you have and how Arcana ruin their play. I am actually thinking about getting a new faction besides my Grymkin so I can play more laid back games and people won't need to only practice against me. I am mainly tempted by Retribution and Skorne.
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>>60844508
Thanks that's a lot of good info, i was actually thinking of trying Wanderer or maybe Heretic first, but guess Child is more safe pick to do as a new player as it is straightforward. I still probably try to proxy things first before committing just to get the feel for it. Thanks again anon, especially for the list.
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>>60844737
Wanderer really isn't straightforward at all. Heretic is one of the casters that seem pretty easy at first, but then you'll see that his kit isn't that obvious and requires good positioning. Child is the Butcher of Grymkin. One mistake I see a lot and I myself did was to put Cage Ragers back due to their low SPD. Cage Ragers due to their better innate ARM and more boxes should be in front of Skin'n'Moans. You won't get alpha unless playing against really slow Khador/Skorne lists, but those aren't very popular. Turning point for my success was really embracing the alpha and making it so the enemy can really only kill some lights and solos.

But right now I am thinking about buying into some other faction so I can play more casual games.
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>>60844737
I'd say the Child and the Heretic are the "easiest" warlocks to start with in Grymkin. The Dreamer and the Old Witch are intermediate, while the Wanderer and the King of Nothing are the most advanced.

As has been mentioned further up in this thread, it's also better for beginners to go beast heavy because the Grymkin stable is so fucking good whereas the infantry require a bit more finesse to be used properly. That ends up being another vote in favor of the Child, since she's the faction's designated beast buddy.
>>
Is Mortenebra1 just bad? I can't seem to make her work. I've played five games with the spider bitch and gotten absolutely trounced in all of them.
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>>60847752
She's ok by cryx standards. What are you running? She can run deathjack or the kraken pretty good. Inused to run her with deathjack, some seethers, a leviathan, and drudges for screening with aiakos and a stalker. Use overrun and spectral steel to get deathjack into opponent warnouns is one of her win conditiona. Feat helps with attrition.

She's not great but she can do some work. She really needs a way to protect her Jack's and has no defensive tech or pathfinder (outside of ghostly) so she has her bad match ups.
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>>60848749
I've run a different list every time, but they're all Black Industries with a bunch of helljacks and support pieces.

The issue I keep running into is hitting power. My heavies don't have enough P+S to tangle with enemy heavies, and my lights don't have enough MAT to be realistic assassins. I've got no trouble delivering my battlegroup, but I usually just pull off an ineffectual alpha and then my shit gets stomped. I can't make anything stick, so I end up banking entirely on a Stalker or a Seether under the feat killing the enemy general. It hasn't exactly panned out.

I guess I need to suck it up and shell out for the Deathjack, because that's the one consistent piece of advice I've been getting.
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>>60851499
Yeah our Jack's are pretty pillowfisted outside of deathjack. And the fact mortembra cant spell slave due to deyrliss means deathjack's stock with her is really high.
In the past I've used an ILO with a seether to apply darkshroud to help her crack armor. Malice tuned up also hits like a brick and can mess with an opponents army. Scrap thralls give you 3 turns of extra focus I find if its round 5 (first turns running so dont need to cast sacrafical lamb) your probably either got it or are boned so 2 points carries you a long way

And yeah deathjack is pretty much one of our best models. His durability and utility are worth every point in most BI lists. With mortembra he can (with 1 empower focus) cast void gate or that feedback-ish spell to trigger overrun on another jack. The trick is not to over commit with her and hope to get a leg up on attrition. I also use my free points for scavengers so my opponent knows his warnoun can get a flying ghostly finisher from 17.5 inches away to keep him honest.

She's honestly a bit underwhelming but with the right models she will hold her own. Out of curiosity what does your meta bring sounds like bricks
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>>60847752
Play Gaspy3, Venethrax or Denny2 instead.
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>>60853598
Please god as a cryx player let's not encourage any more friggin slayer spam. Or maybe we should and PP will have to get off their asses and nerf him. Our jack casters are all fine and decent level but gaspy cranks it all to 11. And as a cryx player I feel we're in a good enough spot to take a nerf.

Let's not get such a big target on us we get smacked like we did at the beginning of mk3.

Question:how do we nerf gaspy? I think slayers are ok at 10pts so let's nerf him not the jacks. Change voicemoron? Take away mobility? Field marshal: something meh like repo 3?
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>>60853979
I think replacing Mobility with Locomotion would be perfect. Still lets him sling a jack or two at high speeds if he needs to, gives him some powerful options after a good feat turn, and doesn't reward just spamming a half dozen Slayers in your battlegroup.

As it stands now, Gaspy3 has too many force multipliers that affect his entire BG. Simply taking as many helljacks as you can cram into the list is too viable.
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>>60847752
A couple months back there was an anon in /wmhg/ talking about how much fun he had playing Seether spam with Morty1 in Infernal Machines. I can't attest to its effectiveness, but the combination of Countercharge, Hyper-Aggressive, and Overrun could presumably make for some seriously janky shit.
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>>60805840
>4shade is finally good
>Ravyn is now usable

Nice.
>>
Are Archangels used nowadays?
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>>60855945
The buffs made them decent. Lylith3 can run it good.
>>
>>60854155
I could get behind that, if he feats nice you can still sling a few Jack's but not every turn and makes terrain an issue




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