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Praise the Lord of Sleep Edition

Previous: >>61249882

We talk about Monstergirls and build a setting for them. Though we can all post pics and images and art of Monster Girl Encyclopedia monster girls and talk about them. But bear in mind this is not KCs MGE canon to the letter. Seriously lads a lot of people have their ideas and they aren't all the same, we can all agree to disagree. Just remember to have fun.

Warhammer Fantasy roleplay homebrew link:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-khJ4fE5v2MyrumyZoauEJ4VIucMO-kP1MGHNVtaDkc/edit

Dungeon World Monster Classes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tnxUNkYKWeDtVtyPk8sYAiTsfwBwcNeC1DKg_0GTb8U/edit?usp=sharing

Wikis for popular Monstergirl settings:

Monster Mosume (Everyday Life with Monstergirls):
>http://dailylifewithamonstergirl.wikia.com/wiki/Daily_Monster_Girls_Wiki

Monstergirl Encyclopedia:
>http://mgewiki.com/w/Main_Page

Monstergirl Quest:
>http://monstergirlquest.wikia.com/wiki/MonsterGirlQuest_Wiki

Remember to regularly shear the acolytes of Hypnos, else you invite berserk insomnia into your life.
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>>61338744
I think we said that only the Fallen God has overtly sided with the Demon Lord. Everyone else is either full Order, or is just neutral (they give blessings to both sides that meet the requirements). Though that's not too set in stone.

I still like the idea that the Fallen God is the sister of the Chief Diety.
>>61339080
I'd say that the merchant states are in the middle of finding new trade routes. There's been some sporadic trade, but with the age of sail stuff going on, contact between them is beginning to rapidly increase.
>>61339254
Maybe Not!India could be called something like, the Ivory Kingdoms (cause war elephants are the shit) but would be attached to the Mist Continent?

As for goods, we could always look to history. Europe's resources were typically things like glass, basic metals like iron or copper, and finished goods (compases, printing presses, optics, so on and so forth), and then later on cloth.

The middle east (including North Africa) which would serve for the Desert Continent largely sold in spices, which is more important than you'd think since prior to refrigeration spices were the best way to preserve food. Additionally river valleys like the Nile and Tigris and Euphrates were big exporters of food. Other than that you had a lot of pastoral farmers.

East Asia's big exports were silk, porcelain, and tea, as well as more spices like Cinnamon.

The New world largely exported it's large deposits of gold, and cash crops like Tobacco, Sugar, Cotton, and dyes (dyes were big money until people could artificially create their own paints). And also furs up in the north in places like Canda.

Subsaharan Africa largely exported slaves of course, but also gold, salt, and ivory.
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>>61338744
I think Eros was just there, but now that most thought revolve around "Love", Eros was powered up, no relations amongst the Gods have been mapped out yet, though I agree with >>61341400
>I'd say that the merchant states are in the middle of finding new trade routes. There's been some sporadic trade, but with the age of sail stuff going on, contact between them is beginning to rapidly increase.
Another agreement on, the fact the age of sail ships also entail a boom in trade via naval routes
>Maybe Not!India could be called something like, the Ivory Kingdoms (cause war elephants are the shit) but would be attached to the Mist Continent?
>As for goods, we could always look to history.
Not opposed to the idea, save for
>The New World
>Subsaharan Africa
Mainly because there are no creatures relating to them (save for Wendigos, but those were thrown into the frozen nort), though that one idea of a Megaisland that's either the Land Forgotten by Time or Savage Land could also serve for that purpose, as for Subsaharan Africa, maybe the Pharao Lands could very well be a merger of both, though I'll leave that one for consideration.
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>>61341400
Does the mist continent of Zinpaqu have its eqivulent to the order. Or is it just demon hunting families?
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How does a person cure corruption?
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>>61341954
I think Zipangu has maintained contact with the Order. Assuming we keep the Fallen Maiden from there, the biggest demon hunting family had schism that lead to one half following good old whats-her-name with the other following her sister. One or both of those clans has left their island, either to find a new home or expunge the walking blight of fluffy tail and betrayal that was supposed to lead them as matriarch of the clan.
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>>61342080
Could the red order attempting to take advantage of this schism, to egg on the other half of the clan to further extremes and convert others?
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>>61341996
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>>61341996
There is no "cure" if you've been properly corrupted. Once you're gone, you're gone.
If you've got some in your system but you're not fully gone, it can be walked back on - burning of various incense, keeping holy relics close to you, and living the life of the pure more than usual, such as denial of desires - but once you're corrupted, you're corrupted.
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>>61341996
By going to the demon realm capital, eating the food there, and having lots of sex with the locals.
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>>61341945
>1/3 of IRL size
Couldn't you move Japan to the Bay of Bengal and handwave away the impact of monsoons?
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>>61342475
So the corruption is another being like the demon overlord overwriting your soul?
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>>61342569
>handwave away the impact of monsoons?
firstly
>handwave
never
secondly
>remove monsoons
why? I've been watching documentaries on that shit all week and having it around would make travels more perilous, I'm all for keeping them instead
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>>61341945
Well the Desert Continent I think would play host to the middle east/north African cultures, with sub-Saharan African and Aboriginal Australian kingdoms being connected but harder to reach. Of course there isn't much need to focus on since as you said we don't have many specific monsters there, but no need to not have them.

Though the Order would only have a significant prescence in the parts that are more middle-eastern/north African centric, which would be the coastal regions on the Southern Sea (and where the pharaohs and Apophis are doing their stuff).

Also we do have the New World in the Far West.
>>61341954
>>61342080
What he said, but I'd also add Zipangu worships the Orders Gods, they just don't accept the Orders authority. They also have a lot of canonized folk religion, so they'll equally worship local spirits or monsters. So the Order officially views them as heretics rather than as heathens, but not heretical enough to warrant a crusade where they build a fleet to go conquer them. Yet.
>>61342160
I'd say they are just a touch too far for contact, but that's be an interesting storyline to explore.
>>61342571
Kind of. It's not direct mind control, but it does make mind control easier. Alongside the physical changes, you get a bunch of new instincts, and from there it's on the person as to how much they want to indulge those instincts or abstain from them.

Also depending on how severe it is, you can get some aids to help tamp down those instincts. So say a woman who becomes a werewolf is much more likely to become pro-corruption if she's isolated with a bunch of other horny werewolves, than if she were cared for in a human community and wore some silver or took some wolfsbane, at that point she'd be mostly normal.
>>61342680
There's probably be a good number of monsoons between the desert continent and Zipangu, perhaps some of the new trade routes include island hopping?
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We have notFrance and notVenice, now we need notSlavic-land. What I propose: Tons of witchs and Dark Mages, each acting within their own domains and interacting little beyond harassing the hapless traveler or helping those who have helped them in turn. Whitehorns are nomads between the many small towns and settlements, content to help those in need, and are well regarded for this, but they tend to disappear in more fervent red order territory. The red order has many enclaves here, rousing the more issolated and harassed townships and serfs into a growing army.
The forest and countryside is full of witches, goblins and hobgoblins, werebats, and even some imps though they are rare. While many of the boyars serve in the Hussars and protect the people, others retreat into further isolation from the people and grow blind the threats that surround them.
Has a big problem though, in the form of the Zombie Dragon Zmei. Killed by the brave Saint George before the rise of the current DL, she is rumored to have risen once more, spreading a horrid fog which clouds the minds of once heroic boyars.
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How do the different species of monsters stack up against each other in terms of power?
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>>61343466
power is inversely proportional to breeding numbers, so you'd need to stack a veritable army of kobolds and/or goblins to deal with a Wurm
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>>61343466
Beast types, most lamias and arachne are on the lower end of power. Orcs, orgers, onis, and certain beast types in the east have vast physical strength, then wurms and sandworms and wyverns. Dragons, apophosis, and pharos are around equal in power, with some pharos rivaling lilim's in power. Succubi aren't much stronger then some eastern beasttypes but have alot of magical prowess and natural ability to spread corruption.
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>>61342571
That, my friend, is the biggest debate of the setting, in and out of universe: "Is Corruption like another being? Does it over-write who you are?"
To a Paladin, yes. You've been forcefully changed over a short period of time, if you have a soul it's been changed, and even if you don't, the person Corruption has made you is not the person you were.
To a Corruptionfag, Corruption just makes you embrace your instincts and pursue the hedonistic; a different kind of you, working on things that were always there.

Well, for humans at least. To Monsters it's anywhere from a great hit, to business as usual but with more gusto, to the literal end of their civilisation and potentially their higher thinking, to something that GAVE them that higher thinking in the first place. It's kind of a clusterfuck to them.

I'd direct you to some proof-positive of the effects Corruption has in the setting to make the conclusion yourself, but... our local archivist hasn't gotten around to that yet, probably out of fear of pissing people off.
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>>61341209
Christ, all these fugly "monster girl" pics.

I know this board is all for making a plausible monstergirl game and setting. But come on it wouldn't hurt to actually use MGE monster girl pics once and a while!
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>>61342571
>>61343576
>To a Paladin, yes. You've been forcefully changed over a short period of time, if you have a soul it's been changed, and even if you don't, the person Corruption has made you is not the person you were.
>To a Corruptionfag, Corruption just makes you embrace your instincts and pursue the hedonistic; a different kind of you, working on things that were always there.
More or less, those are the "in-world" views, but technically or mechanically-wise, whatever you do that increases the corruption goes to the DL by default and empowers her by default.
Can the DL directly mind control you?
A straight answer is not really, no more than influence your actions (like how the Chaos Gods influence people in WHF), this goes both for humans and monsters, demons on the other hand are bound to the DL so they on the other hand, while they're mostly just "set loose", they must do her bidding if she so chooses (whether this is body or mind control is up to you), this is the tl;dr version of what I'm doing btw, though of course, it's mostly what I've collected and how I interpreted it, if it's not exactly your thing you are totally free to adjust things to your liking.
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>>61341209
Anybody want to talk about dark mages and the inverted Sabbath?
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>>61343879
Yeah, no, those were used in the early threads, not to mention the latest MGE entries and preview of the newest books were just posted last thread, so feel free to post them if you want.
>>61343903
I would rather have them as a coven of witches or sorceresses who wield magic unbound to demons that act as lone wolf agents for the most part, but maybe that's just me.
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>>61343576
>>61343888
So what about the world before the monster lord/gods? Were the monster girls just animals or were they their own race?
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>>61343903
I know the source
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>>61344223
>So what about the world before the monster lord/gods?
No idea actually, the farthest back we've gone is before this Demon Lord was other regular "kill, conquer, destroy" Demon Lords (based on the cardinal sins), though, the generally accepted idea is there was a creator deity that is currently AWOL.
>Were the monster girls just animals or were they their own race?
Both, or specifially dependent on their species, Goblinoids, Orcoids, Mermaids and so on were already quasi humanoid creatures, while slimes, unicrons, griffins and so on were animal monsters for example, now, the females were turned into demi-humans who only birth females, and at this point, males have died off (unless you're of the ALL monsters were turned into females crowd).
>>61344309
don't we all, unless you're a newfag or live under a rock
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>>61341209
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>>61341209
>Ufufufu~ Here to protect human men, especially cute men and cute boys from things that go bump in the night.
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>>61344535
Dear lord more! That was a fantastic read. Very well done.
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Are the offspring of human and monster girl sex always pure monster girl? Or does it create hybrids?
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>>61344979
Hybrids would be too much of a headache to try to come up with I think.

Maybe between humans and demihumans though? Though even then I'd still go by elder scrolls rules (you are whatever the mother is) so say even a half-elf would still technically be 100% elf, she just has shorter ears or something that gives away their parentage (a half-dwarf would come across as either a midget, or a rather tall dwarf).
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>>61344979
>>61344979
>Are the offspring of human and monster girl sex always pure monster girl?
>Though even then I'd still go by elder scrolls rules (you are whatever the mother is)
That's how it is, female monsters only birth female monsters, men (human or elf or dorf) are basically considered the male of their (the female) species.
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>>61341209
reposting, pic somewhat related
>Setting's tech level is some where around XIV and XV century
>The Order is the major human faction, it's mainland is split into a northern Slavic/gothic styled region, and a southern classical/Southern European styled region, where the Order has its capital
>To the far north is where the demon Lord has her base, so far it's a blank blot on the map marked with HERE BE DEMONS
>Misceus, a neighboring monster coexistence state is trying to rebuild it's fallen empire
>The sea of Knights is the dark edge on the sea with the sunken city of the dead, ghost ships, goth mermaids, and on the edge of it is the deep layer of chaos cultists sea witches
>The southern sea seperates the Order mainland from the desert continent, the land of exotic pelts filled with Brown monstergirls lies on the western coastline
>The southern coast includes rival merchant state factions, a pirate city based out of a shipwreck island, and a series of Amazon tropical islands.
>There's an island of wyvern riders, think of it something similar to Erlic's Melnibone, location yet to be discussed, proposed name was Draconia
>A Fairy Realm is under protection of an Order Realm, when they're not ebroiled in their own internal power struggles
>Desert Continent has Arabian Nights city-states, nomadic sand elves, Pharaonic ruins whose inhabitants are trying to rebuild their fallen empire and Apophis ruled states.
>The Great North is a subcontinent of Scandinavian/Northern European styled states, with Viking monstergirls and and emerging merchant guild
>Somewhere in between the frozen north and the mainland there are some Duchies/Principates ruled by Matriarchal Vampires, running a Bene Gesserit program to breed the ultimate hero (for their nefarious purposes), Umacta being their center of operations
>Zipangu and the Mist Lands off to the eastern sea
>Ruins dot the land, what wonders (and dangers) they may hide, cyclopean ruins or arcane forgotten knowledge?
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>>61346256
and previously proposed/mentioned ideas
>Undercities, whether these are populated by Dwarves, Bugs or other is yet to be discussed
>An Order Realm with French Chivalry for it's theme, houses haughty Elves
>there was talk of Cuman/Mongolian Centaurs, I would also pitch in a Spaniard vs Moorish Human realms with Centaurs outlying the Gothic Human Order portion of the map, totally not ripping the HRE
>Dwarves and Cyclops have given humans the gifst of steel and gunpowder (and beer), but remain mostly cooped up minding their own business, but for how long?
>Mechant Republics are a thing, but aside "they're there" not much was talked about them, though I do remember a mention of a Dragon being their dynastic accountant and head being the dirty secret of one ruling family, I found that entertaining
>the ancient cities of the Pharaohs, are they open and welcoming to foreigners and thrive with the caravans that come and go with their spices? or do only the adventurous and foolhardy dare explore their secrets?
>Fairy, Demon and Heavenly realms, how the bonkers do they functions
>attention to detail focusing about the geography of these regions, culture and in-general fleshing them out
>On the southern extremes of the Desert Continent lie the Opal Kingdoms, home to unique treasures, bewildering spirits, and strange creatures.
and most recently talk about Masked Mantids, Centaur, Weresheep, Harpy and Arachne nomads out in the open plains and steppes, are there other dangers hiding in the seemingly endless sea of green?
theories of divergent evolution, whether this is due to corruption, natural, or magical reasons is up to debate and interpretation.
if you thought Monsters were bad new and Demons were worse, learning about the Eldritch abyssals will make you shoot the messenger.
also, last thread there was talk about: arabian nights themed automatons, colleges are a thing, and "barbaric" or simple minded beings keeping abyssals at bay.
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>>61346266
Bugs? Do they need/desire humans for rape or are they more of the animal type of creature?
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>>61346819
yes.
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>>61343888
You've started codifying Corruption? And here I was ready to make a big declaration I was going to try and tackle it. Vorenus, you do Jupiter's work.

>>61344223
Before current Gods? Word of advice, don't get into the divinity of the setting. While it's GENERALLY accepted there's at least some kind of fluffy cloud place filled with angels, whether any of them are a creator deity or the term "God" is a title is up for debate, as is whether other Gods exist, as is how much influence they have over mortals. That's very "depends on who you ask".
As for before the current Demon Lord? Well, from what I understand the Demon Lord uses Corruption to shape Monsters to their whim - prior to this point, that was a lot of murder and killing. The current one, ambitious as she is, attempted to use it to change a lot of things, not least he ability to have anything mate with anything and giving them the more human forms you know today (all female technically optional, it doesn't change the key "we're infertile" part of the setting).
As for whether there were Monsters before even Corruption... well, there's a theory of those origins floating around that Corruption did turn some animals into Monsters, like a snake into a Lamia, hence why so many Monsters resemble beasts. Humans, the one creatures without any seed or spark of Corruption in them, also have their reflection however - only humans can become Demons upon embracing Corruption; so, if you like, Demons are the result of the human animal becoming Corrupted.
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>>61347294
>You've started codifying Corruption?
Aye, I'll try and give some order to all these ideas, though as you've said, on man's truths can also be considered the rambling of a madman.
By the by, how fare you on your writings? Did you come up with more horrors such as the "swarm" that was proposed some time ago?
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>>61344545
>Society of Vampire Hunters
>Its a group of Dhampirs dedicated to hunting down the forces of darkness and bringing some terror back to the night!
>Most members are dropped off by their mothers, who are vampires.

>"Have fun at your club dearie!"
>"It's not a club mom! It's a Society!"
>"I'll be with the other moms at Starbucks, you just give a call when you want me to come pick you up~!"
>"Whatever mom!!! Begone foul creature! Oh! W-wait! I left my bag in the car!"
>"Aww, here you go honey. Now give mommy a kiss."
>"Moooooooommmm..."
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>>61347813
Now all I can think about is rebellious Demon teen who wants to dress all frumpy and cuddle her potential partners. Somebody find the one picture of a succumom embarrassing her succudaughter, you know the one.
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>>61347715
Ah, the muse has left.
I need to get back into it, quite honestly. I said a while back I was going to try and give a summary of the Red Order, that's yet to materialise; been a busy time. I'm sure once I start it'll get going again, but it's the first hurdle.

I will say I didn't invent the Hive, I just thought it was a very interesting idea different from the norm. I'm not going to write it down because it didn't seem all that popular, but maybe I'll throw it on the archive with caveat emptor attached to it. I really should put the Domovoi on there, I like that the thread actually made a Monster.

Oh, while I'm here: you and me need to settle the human ruled vs Monster-ruled Misceus discussion. We said we'd get to it and then never quite did, and I think it's about time we try and put it to rest. If you'd like to start? History and in-universe reasons are good, so are out-of-universe meta reasons why it should be the case, such as what Misceus represents to us as observers of the entire setting.
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>>61347915
Monster ruled Misceus would allow for a in universe mythology for a wolfgirl Romulus and a gender flipped version of the abduction of the Sabines.
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>>61348026
In Vorenus' defence, that would have been the old Misceus' creation myth, not the current one, the existence of Wolfgirl Romulus isn't dependent on a Monster-ruled Misceus.
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>>61348080
Isn't Misceus just the rebuilding of an old civilization?
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>>61348095
It's taking the half-remembered romanticised ideals of an old civilisation, yeah.
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>Congratulations, Inquisitor! You've been chosen to guard the main road into Order lands. Being on the fringes, you'll have to expect the strangest of Monsters on the border - closed for now, but as time goes by, we may allow others in. You'll also have to monitor shipments, supplies, families, refugees (both human and otherwise) and attempt to defend or dissuade Demons from crossing the border. Glory to The Order!

What troubles would a border guard for Order lands find themselves confronting on a regular basis?
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>>61347860
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>>61350420
>Fucking faggot cats and their absurd attempts to gain lawful entry.
But don't worry! You will have glorious supervisor to double-check your work. And eventually you will become your own supervisor. And have underling to do work for you.
What happens to old supervisor? Eh. Why you care?
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>>61344223
Situation dependent. Some, like Wurms, Manticores, Arachnes, Atlach-Nacha etc... were just animals in intelligence, albeit very dangerous animals that had an instinctive need to attack humans and were untameable by anything except other monsters. The sapient ones like Orcs, Satyr, Goblins, Dragons, etc... weren't just animals and weren't always evil as well. Some tried to focus on building their own societies and ignored their god given instincts when it was convenient. Monsters that had to rape humans to perpetuate their kind like Lamia, Succubi, Medusa and Harpies could come to love the men they would take as breeding slaves.
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>>61343888
I'd say that one of the Demon Lords power includes a booming voice she can turn on or off that (while still not straight up mind control) can really, really influence those corrupted. Like it would take a really high will check or something to not want to do what she says when she's telling you to do something.
>>61344223
>>61344343
I'd say that Beastmen where there own races but were previously much more on the furry end of the spectrum. Dragons were fully intelligent but largely asocial. Undead would have been completely unintelligent save for say liches and other necromancers. Golems were by and large non-intelligent, and elementals displayed intelligence more than animal but less than a human. Goblinken I think would be smart enough to make and use tools, but otherwise aren't the brightest of the races.
>>61345202
Yeah, but with other demihumans, for every elf born between a human and an elven mother you'd have a human born from a elf and a human mother so unlike with monsters it evens itself out.

That said we could also do it so between demihumans you could randomly get an elf or a human between an elven and human parent.
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>>61347915
Well I liked the Hive once we got it to a finished product.

Maybe before getting to that discussion we should make sure we agree on it's setup? I think there was some disagreement on that in the past. The version I remember being that way in the past there were a bunch of big empires in the past that were pretty egalitarian in terms or race, and in the modern age monsters looking to make their own nation look to the Empire of Marble, largely based in the Southern Mainlands and Southern Sea, to start building their own state.

Anyway I also say that Miscaea is a coexistence state, they have some human populations so they don't need to constantly raid for men (though they do that too on occasion), but in terms of rulership there's nothing stopping humans or monsters from taking leadership positions.
>>61347294
I think most everyone agrees that plenty of Gods exist.
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>>61352258
>Yeah, but with other demihumans, for every elf born between a human and an elven mother you'd have a human born from a elf and a human mother so unlike with monsters it evens itself out.
>That said we could also do it so between demihumans you could randomly get an elf or a human between an elven and human parent.
So long as neither have corruption in them, though now I'm wondering (and adding), if men or women have corruption in them, would they also be having only females, I know some want "safe" levels of corruption, so, when fully corrupted, a man turns into an incubus and a woman a succubus, so, if they're within "safe" levels, or simply haven't been transformed yet, would their offspring be affected by this?
>also, posting this because it made me laugh
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>>61350420
Danukis, Deppelgangers, and other tranformation users impersonating regular humans
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>>61353724
I'd say that so long as they haven't transformed (since you'd think it's the transformation process that would be rewiring the womb and whatnot) then they can still have boys.

Maybe this might result in some weird grandfathered male kids for monsters? If a woman conceives before becoming corrupted, she might end up having a male child (since the gender is determined at conception). In fact maybe this could be considered as a sign that the Demon Lords plan is working, maybe in the early days such children were stillborn but now they can be carried to term?
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>>61343903
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>>61354793
>non loli Baphomet
what is this trickery?!
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>>61355729
They're the /ss/abbath, I assume.
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>>61347915
>Oh, while I'm here: you and me need to settle the human ruled vs Monster-ruled Misceus discussion.
Sorry about that, went to sleep before seeing you post, let me write down quick.
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>>61354793
Is she holding a giant toucan head?
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>>61347915
I'll start with out-of-universe meta reasons, since those are quicker to explain, in universe is taking more to map out.
My reasoning for Misceus being human ruled rests no only in tradition and history (and me being unimaginative, I mean the concept srpung because I had recently watched Rome for the first time not too long ago and was already a Romeaboo to begin with) but also because if you notice, the Monster Realms that exist, are ruled by monsters that already were sapient, for example, Vampires, Pharaos, Ice Queen, Dragons (secretly ruling through money).
The pitch and myth as you remember sprung from the SheWolf myth being turned into a Lycanthrope, this was before the rise of the current DL (but can also be interpeted as after, depends on your choosing), and turning the Vestals into a secret society of she-werewolves.
This origin also allowed and explained why grecolatin monsters were already a presence (recurring or at least acknowledged) of being like centaurs, dryads and so on, giving way for a more "friendly" attitude.
And as I was saying the basis was the Roman flavor, the fall of Constantiople because with these, I wanted to tackle many subjects, chiefly:
A patrician/noblemen system that would serve people (men and monsters) as a quest giver system, rather than a guild system, since the noble house would be the provider/guarantor for the player, explaining why would people leave the safety of their city walls or incurry their favor in exchange for goods/services to their own group/clan (which would also act as pool for characters in case of death).
Give some sense of direction or starting point for a plot and the setting's story in general, since we were already copying much from MGE, and was an attempt to stray from it, like an origin point for the Order, general attitudes of populations and to not copy the generic JRP origin stories.
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>>61357831
not exactly against having megafauna
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>>61358996
Still don't see why modern Misceus needs to be human ruled.
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>>61360970
Sorry about that, job is being a hassle, so story might not be ready today.
But basically, not just because humans are the majority and their governments are handled by them, but because as I've mentioned, previously non sapient monsters are new to human-like organization, and are coming out of what could be considered tribal settlements, even if conquering land, the would still pretty much rely on human advisors to manage things.
>inb4 hakutakus
>inb4 changing -4str for -4int
I am not saying they are dumb, I am saying they have potential, but have yet to master it and pass it on to their own.
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>>61362093
True, but hold is modern Misceus? We've been saying the Demon Lord took power 200 years ago, so maybe say modern Misceus is 150 years old? I think that's enough time for a couple of generations to get accustomed to civilized society, and enough that monsters would hold a proportional amount of administrative positions.
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>>61347813
>implying both mother and daughter weren't playing tsundere chicken
>implying they wouldn't be dancing around the good bye kiss as hard as they can while triple checking to make sure no one is watching
>implying all the other moms and daughters aren't just as bad
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Do condoms exist? If so, is there any reason why they wouldn't be illegal in MG controlled territory?
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>>61363494
Monstergirls are already hard enough to get pregnant since their bodies literally consume the cum that is pumped into them.
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>>61363494
Condoms probably exist in whatever setting. They've been around since forever and used to be made of animal parts instead of rubber, but if there's magic then there's 100% a prophylactic application to it

And I know this is the point of the thread, but it could be that there are no males of the MG species, so "high risk" breeding could be encouraged / mandated for survival of the society
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>>61363494
not really, if pregnancy denial is your kink I think
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>>61363494
>it'll be bad if the off chance you do become pregnant happens
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>>61342160
>Red Order in Zipangu
I'd say and believe >>61342811 already said it:
>I'd say they are just a touch too far for contact

And I'd also say alot of Zipangu would tell the Red Order to fuck off and go away. Because for one, Zipangu is very much a far-far away place for the Red Order to maintain. Second, even though the Red Order's influence does and can affect people into being anti-monstergirl fags, Zipangu's much much different cultures and ideologies would be very much against and unaligned towards the Red Order ideology.

So I'd say it'd be best that while Zipangu has it's own anti-monstergirl groups and anti-monstergirl policies in it's own different places and regions. They'd defintely be against the Red Order's memes and tomfoolery, especially with the fact that Zipangu generally has a different religious view on gods and deities that does not meld well with the Order's views and ideologies. Especially the extremist views and ideologies of the Red Order...

Also something makes me want to say that the Red Order are massive racists too. I'm not referring to racism against non-humans, but the Red Order are very very racist against any person who isn't born in the Order's mainlands. Of course to make the Order look like good guys compared to the Red Order, The Order itself are "tolerant" and more welcoming compared to whatever oldfag traditionalist traditions and ideas some Red Order fags have.

And finally, pic related would probably be what a Red Order Knight/member be like in Zipangu.
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>>61365971
Less racist, more "They don't follow our religion!", I can see them discriminating against other humans for that reason; it's harder to dislike someone because of skin colour when you're not the only species that talks, but it's still pretty easy to think someone's a filthy heathen. Like, there's plenty of reasons the Red Order wouldn't spread to Zipangu and get some kind of Red Samurai thing going; not least is the lack of Demonic influence overseas, meaning they don't have the justification they do on the continent, and the fact that most people in Zipangu wouldn't follow the Order's religion.

Whilst some people might have sympathies for what the Red Order would want to do in Zipangu, these people wouldn't be enough in number or importance to clandestinely sustain them like they do on the mainland.

... That said, Red Samurai "William Adams" type wen?
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>>61341209
Fight or be beaten and raped by the monstergirl, anon. Make your choice.
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>>61365971
>That entire image
>Galatians 6:10
Is this something from a christian brainstorming session?
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>>61366080
>Red Samurai "William Adams" type wen?
>Gaijin Samurai players
A Samurai is a person.
A farmer is half a person
An Eta is not a person at all
And below even Eta are the Gaijin and things outside the Celestial order.
Dirty though it may be, even Eta have souls.
Gaijin do not.
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>>61366241
>Historical William Adams intensifies
>Historical Yasuke intensifies
>HISTORICAL GAIJIN SAMURAI INTENSIFY

Your daimyo would be disappointed, and the Buddha looks down on your ignorance.
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>Anon and his wife are out surfing off of the coast
>suddenly Anon's wife is knocked from her board with a scream
>distraught, Anon rapidly swims over - his wife is clinging onto the board, barely conscious, with a nasty bite wound in her thigh
>Anon gets her back to the beach and carries her to hospital
>the doctors manage to treat her wound and she is given a good prognosis
>Anon sits in the hospital until late at night, just outside of her room
>she's still asleep following the surgery to save her leg - watching her sleep peacefully, Anon feels his own eyelids growing heavy…
>he wakes some hours later with a start
>the hospital room is trashed, broken equipment lying everywhere, and Anon's wife is nowhere to be seen
>the door is open and a trail of destruction leads down the corridoor
>Anon follows the trail out of the hospital and back to the beach, where it seems to disappear into the water
>Anon runs onto the pier, staring out over the water, frantically calling out to her
>then, with a splash and a roar, something breaches the water - it crashes into him and pulls him under…
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>>61366297
>he didn't catch the tetsubo reference
>he didn't catch the Celestial order reference
0/10 would not defend Rokugan with, also, funny that you mentioned William Adams, am actually watching the Shogun series, it's bretty gud so far
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>>61366297
>Gaijin Samurai
I though the Japanese through out all European foreigners when ever that attempted to land?
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>>61366389
If that were the case they'd never have gotten European firearms.
Don't get me wrong, Japan was pretty closed off to the world, but not completely.
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>>61366389
not him, but no, the Shogunate had dealings with the Dutch after kicking out the Portuguese, although they did in fact repel or captured any other ships outside of this treaty right up until the Perry Expedition and the Meiji Restoration.
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>Monstergirl Portals open up and a Monstergirl invasion begins
>The town you live in is conquered by the Monstergirls and is turned into a demon realm
>Go to a local gay bar out of curiousity
>It's filled with desperate, horny alps
>???
>Profit
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>>61366474
I imagine all the Bears would still be Male. Probably just end up with the alps taking them and mindbreaking them.

The real question is who are the lucky guys getting chaos gfs. Imagine being able to turn into a giant spider or being nigh unkillable to most non explosive weapons thanks to you shaggothfu.
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>>61366415
>>61366425
I knew they had firearms from the Portuguese, I just was under the impression that they kicked them out pretty quick and killed any gaijin who stepped foot on the islands. Never knew about the Dutch. Thanks for increasing my knowledge anons.
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>>61341209
Source for art?
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>>61341209
>>61344545
>>61347813
>>61362627

>Damphirs definitely have good upbringings and have no valid reason to go after their mothers to "rescue" their dads
>Vampires probably don't care if their Damphir daughters are half-breeds, and still love them unconditionally anyways no matter how haughty they may be
>high ranking Vampires probably have massive Castlevania-like castles filled with different "habitats" for different species and their husbands depending on the section
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>>61366547
A traditional Alp would look like a twink.
What would a Bear look like if they were made into an Alp? A twunk?
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>>61367593
Big tittied Cakes.
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>>61364240
I mean it's likely a non-issue for most monstergirl couples, since monstergirls have such a low conception rate. Like most monstergirl couples wouldn't even think to bother using them.
>>61365971
Probably what the Red Order would do is try to make contact with anti-monster elements already in Zipangu. Also I don't think the Red Order should be out-and-out racist between cultures and with demihumans. They could be casually racist between individuals. but as an institution, I think they'd hold together in the interest of accumulating more power. Keep in mind that racist groups like say white supremacists, aren't opposed to alliances of convieniences with their so called enemies (notice that you never hear talking points from the alt-right against say our alliance with Saudi Arabia, one of the most oppressive islamist regimes in the world) and at the same time they aren't against turning upon members of their own group that they oppose (the alt-right isn't going to like someone on the left just because they are a white straight male).
>>61366080
Yeah I can see that, especially since I would think that the Order would officially brand the Zipangu religion as being heretical.
>>61366389
>>61366573
They did for a good long while, though prior to that you had various clans converting to christianity and buying guns (there were three parts to this, convert to ally with westerners to get the guns, use the guns to takeover Japan, and lastly, open the way for a western nation to potentially use the conflict to take over Japan themselves as a colony). The Emporer cracked down on this, and in the end only the Dutch were allowed to trade with Japan on a tiny peninsula within one of the cities (the Dutch by all accounts being pretty chill about the religion and conquering people thing).

Also- the Japanese were forbidden from leaving the island as well by the same law.
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>>61366573
No problem, anon. The travels of early visitors to Japan are actually super interest, look into it if you get the chance.
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>>61370794
Comodore Perry's visit to Japan is a comedy of errors akin a modern brexit, except everyone managed to get out of that one okay.
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>>61370958
Until they underwent a civil war for a few years, and some of the samurai became ministers and ordered the arrest of all the other samurai.
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>>61366474
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>>61363494
Anyone willing to take their chances with an angry dragon wouldn't be deterred by the law anyway.
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Are there ruins of the old order, before the current DL, to be found in foriegn lands, such as the Jungle of Beasts or even the undead kingdom?
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>>61370958
>except everyone managed to get out of that one okay
I don't know about that but that was a clusterfuck of mistakes.
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>>61373539
There should be lots of ruins everywhere, but of the Order I'm not sure.
>>61373747
Japan ended up not being a colony.
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>>61367298
>high ranking Vampires probably have massive Castlevania-like castles filled with different "habitats" for different species and their husbands depending on the section
Whys that? Guests? Retainers? extended undead family?
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>>61374402
probably all of them?
I mean, Echidnas build dungeons as a passtime, and dating service, so them doing whatever to staff off undead boredom is an excuse on it's own, a major reason would be your spoiler, for they must hide the shame.
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>>61374504
>be vampire
>mover and shaker with your own dark castle and everything
>mom is an Echidna
>leaves you to take care of the youngest in the family while she takes her fifteenth honey moon
>you believe in and use magic and you still have no clue how she gave birth to a zombie
>groans constantly
>shambles aimlessly around the castle and needs to be watched so she doesn't fall into the moat again
>keeps grabbing the servants
>once caught her attempting to chew on your boyfr-personal butler
>has been hanging around the ghouls in the crypt and has picked up their habit of drooling when excited
>every time you have to personally feed her gobs of meat you need to remind yourself to be strong for mother
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>>61374504
I wonder if nightgaunts are hired out to scoop up men and bring them to these places. Make sure their is a steady supply of husbands and gives a reason for people to come and stop them.
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>>61375013
>leaves you to take care of the youngest in the family while she takes her fifteenth honey moon
Fifteenth marriage? I thought even in the thread setting MGs are super monogamous.
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>>61375103
Not really, even in MGE it's stated that some MGs who widow go and remarry.
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>>61375243
Wait where does it state that?
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>>61375409
MGE wiki, look for some Q&A articles with KC.
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>>61375103
The same couple can have multiple honeymoons.
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>>61375567
Eh it seems really fucking rare. Especially for an MG as powerful as an echidna, but fair enough.

>>61375585
True. I guess i didn't consider that option.
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>>61362617
>True, but hold is modern Misceus?
I'm going to assume you meant how old is new Misceus, and I'm lining the fall of Old Misceus to the Rising of the current Demon Lord
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>>61375847
Personally I'm not going for the waifu approach, but rather a "it's how monster make do or how person wants" kind of way.
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>>61366297
>Yasuke
>wasn't even given a fief
nigga was barely a footman, nowhere near Adams
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>>61378446
The dude hung out in the court and personal company of Nobunaga, I'd say that gives him some pretty fuckin' big ebony balls.
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>>61378599
true, maybe he could've last longer or achieve more had Nobu not been betrayed
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>>61366224
>not fighting and raping the monstergirl
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What would the /mgw/ equivalent of Taoism look like? How would it help shape the Mist Continent before it fell into war?
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>>61380216

Reincarnation, clothes formed from pure skill, returning kindness and enmity ten times over, imperial auras that permeates through time, dao of the sword that breaks fundamental laws, etc.
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>>61380216
sadly I know little on that subject, could you give a tl;dr version of it?
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>>61366763
juanmao
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>>61373539
>Are there ruins
>>61346256
>Desert Continent has Arabian Nights city-states, nomadic sand elves, Pharaonic ruins whose inhabitants are trying to rebuild their fallen empire and Apophis ruled states.
>Ruins dot the land, what wonders (and dangers) they may hide, cyclopean ruins or arcane forgotten knowledge?
Yes.
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>>61383169
So are they trying to defend a dungeon or what
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bump
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>>61386080
C'mon, at least bump with a scenario or a question or something. Like, try this:

"If there are Monsters, like giant ants, who burrow underground, how big are those tunnels? Do you think Monsters or humans clear them out to use them?"

At least give a "You're in the Inquisition, how do you deal with X?" question.
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>>61386191
Better question, do and monstergirls use humans to clean their tunnels for them ?
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>>61379565
>Not earning the respect of a monster girl and making her fall in love with you
You must have the big gay
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>>61387286
>Earning the respect of a Monstergirl and making her fall in love with you by establishing your dominance as the alpha female
The even bigger gay solves all problems.
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>>61381308
This is going to be simplistic as hell but essentially Taosim is the belief that there is a central governing principle that everything in the universe follows and can be perceived through living in harmony with nature.
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>>61380438
How does one create clothes from pure skill?
>>61388768
On that note what would Mist Continent religion be? Worship of spirits? Folk Religion involving worship of monsters? (probably not for the HFY faction) Mostly Philosophical in nature? Would they worship or acknowledge the Gods?
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>>61389094
It's an entire continent so there is probably a mess of religions. Good ol' Taoists, folk religions centered around old and super powerful monsters, ancient dragon worship, ancestor and spirit worship, silkmoth monasteries trying to quell their inner flames and the worship of the same gods as the Order heartlands but maybe under a different guise. Skys the limit.
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>>61387105
well, someone's gotta do it
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>>61389284
True. Though maybe while we are at it, we note which religious beliefs would be popular where?

Monster worship would be banned in the HFY faction, and welcome in the Corruption and Coexistance faction for instance.
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>>61389284
In regions that worship particular monsters, do the monsters' husbands hold any special status?
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>>61390485
I'd say so, though it would depend on the culture. In some he may work like a king, or a bishop, or as a concubine.
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>>61389284
>Moth Monasteries (Mothasteries?)
I was under the impression the one Moth Convent on the Mainland was THE Moth Convent...
Is this implying that their religion made it off the Mainland to the Mist Continent and found a bigger footing there without the Order's religions having taken foot, or that the Moths were originally FROM the Mist Continent and the ones on the main land are the descendants of long ago pilgrims?
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>>61391543
Or perhaps it's a matter that similar people in similar circumstances will reach similar ends?
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>>61391543
>Moth monasteries record their wisdom in elaborate silk (tapestries or woven knots)
>literal Silk Road
>reminder monks introduced silk via smuggling
Imma gonna go with your idea, maybe they were driven out because of a schism like Confucianism and Taoism?
or, as >>61391619 pointed out, these could be two entirely diferent sects
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>>61341209
I need more centauroid monster girls
for research
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>>61392009
Pegasi centaur would be fun. Same with an odins horse centaur.
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>>61391893
... What is the Silk Road in this world exists and is called as such because they were old Moth pilgrims who would carry the knowledge of various things back and forth? The Silk Road existed because of a trade of knowledge, not exotic materials.
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>>61392246
>What is the Silk Road in this world exists and is called as such because they were old Moth pilgrims who would carry the knowledge of various things back and forth? The Silk Road existed because of a trade of knowledge, not exotic materials.
Yes please.
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>>61392047
>Pegasi centaur
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>>61392009
do you mean diferent breeds of centaurs? or other type of animal part? because I think there are pictures of zebra or deer centaurs
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>>61392466
? Pegasi is the Plural for pegasus
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>>61392246
If it was safe enough for knowledge why wouldn't it be used for material goods?
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>>61392480
different animal parts
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>>61392246
>>61392582
as nice as it sounds, it doesn't really hold much weight, a trade route's main purpose is monetary gain, anything else is secondary

>>61392499
I'm aware of that
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>>61392246
I'd say there'd probably be sea routes from say the great north to the mainlands, or to zipangu and the desert continent, and merchants are trying to strengthen those trade routes.
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>>61392582
>>61392697
Might well be over time as it became established, but I like the idea that the reason it got that name and started/was found at all was because of the silk writings the Moths kept and transported - and quite possibly sold, because information is valuable. Then the one merchant caravan follows the pilgrims because they seem to know what they're doing, one becomes 2, 2 become 5, 10 and a troop of their guard, who tell their mercenary friends, who tell that one lord they work with, who realises he can send all sorts of things through this route, so tells his liege, and so on... and bam, functional trade route.
>>
You know, I am in favor of fleshing out the Mist Continent. My knowledge of classical east asia is lacking however (most of my knowledge of the region starts at the early modern era). Anyone got any ideas? So far we have a handful of mist-continent monstergirls, and the three-way war between the three factions, anything else?
>>61392875
Question- how does this take into account the much more monstrous mothmen that would have been about in previous era's?
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>>61392875
>I like the idea that the reason it got that name and started/was found at all was because of the silk writings the Moths kept and transported - and quite possibly sold, because information is valuable.
I mean not saying you cna't have both, what if the moth people "smuggled" information on tapestries, but only the moth people know how to read it by touching, like the blind do
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>>61394138
A) Braille is a relatively modern invention (1800s)
B) I don't think you can inscribe braille on silk.
C) Mothfolk aren't blind.
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>>61394158
didn't say it was Braille, used blind people as example
for all I know it could also be the mulberry juice message on paper from Lone Wolf
>>
New Monster-

Terracotta Golem:

Located in the Mist Continent, rumored to be a member of whole army of Golems located in some long forgotten tomb of some long forgotten ruin for some long forgotten emporer of some long forgotten dynasty. It is said to have more gold in it than lay in all the Desert Continent, which naturally entices treasure hunters of all stripes.

However whether it be to ancient seals, or typical memory loss, the Terracotta Golems have no real memories of these supposed treasures, only vague recollections. This doesn't deter treasure hunters however, who often hope to pick up such a Terracotta Golem to use the breadcrumbs in their minds to find the Emporers Tomb. In fact many Terracotta Golems market themselves as useful adventuring tools so as to find themselves new masters.


Thoughts?
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>>61394570
Imo it's just a golem with a different mold
>>
Olympic must be pain in the ass in the world with so many species. I mean they can't let them run with humans, but on the same time race between centaur and lamia or kobold would be not fair either.
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>>61395475
You're not thinking of the right competitions.
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>>61395475
Just means you need to segregate them by race.
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>>61383169
What is pictured is clearly a failed Red Order attack on a monstergirl stronghold. And the Red Order retards are getting what they deserved by becoming new found husbands to monstergirls.
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>>61395424
Any ideas then?
>>61395792
>You have to segregate the Olympics by Race. You have to.
-Woolie 'the Liar' Madden
>>
>>61341209
there is this game called Corruption of Champions. Its a good game and i love it, but it is also text based, and my lazy ass cant keep reading this much.

i need a game like Corruption of Champions, but more visual and less text. something lower in fetish stuff is a pro.

any suggestions?
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>>61396214
Ask /hgg/ on /vg/ or /d/.
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>>61396260
to be fair this is probably the most consistent place to go for this kind of question. im willing to bet someone in this thread has a great answer.
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>>61396214
More visual like vn? Or actual action RPG? The second one works be hard because typing wall of text is much easier than making appealing animations.
You can also play 8ch version of coc if you haven't.
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>>61395900
just saying that before thinking up of new monsters, maybe we should first try working with the ones that are already around
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>>61384535
>>61395814
yes
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>>61386191
>"If there are Monsters, like giant ants, who burrow underground, how big are those tunnels? Do you think Monsters or humans clear them out to use them?"
I think there were earlier mentions of a bug city, would be very interested on fleshing that one out
>>
>>61395814
That or they're babysitting for a friend and his Echidna wife.
>>
>>61341209
>Nacho-spooder fixates on a guy.
>She does her "brutal insults while being super tsuntsun and insecure" shtick.
>She keeps it up for a while, only to realize something horrifying.
>She didn't know the guy was already genuinely depressed.
>Instead of making him aroused, her abuse genuinely hurts him and deepens what's already there.

>the targeted guy is now even more depressed and suicidal as he preps up the knife/rope/gun/jar of peanut butter on hand
>the Atlach-Nacha knocks the knife/rope/gun/jar of peanut butter out of his hand
>berates him for being an idiot for thinking he should kill himself
>she bites him
>they fug
>power of love makes him not depressed
THE END
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>>61366224
Fight and kill until I am defeated
Only a monsterfu who can defeat me deserves my love
>>
>>61398427
CUTE!!!

Turning into a massive fucking spider seems like it would be really fun.
>>
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>>61398427
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>>61398640
the struggle is real
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>>61398640
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>>61397988
Be the change you wanna see in the world, anon. Big-ass bug city, what's it like [spoilers]and how much Hollow Knight influence is there?[/spoiler]
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https://imgur.com/a/XJTOMUu

Enjoy friends. Enjoy the embrace of monster girls!
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Hers some more MGE Goodness

https://imgur.com/a/QkaI4
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>>61397297
Well what are some good ideas for Golems then?

As of now, we have it that they are mostly used by the Order (though other factions also make use of them), as they are the model monster (does whatever they are told, don't attack men unless there's some kind of malfunction), and that they are made using soul fragments.
>>61398427
Jar of peanut butter?
>>61398587
Considering you can switch back at will it's all pluses.
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>>61392246
>>61392746
just throwing something out here:
A common job centaurs would take up would be in trade. They're used to having to travel long distances, especially on the steppes and deserts where the Silk Road lies. They'd take up positions as the caravaneers and guards that would transport the silk moth's goods.

Come to think of it, if there was any united centaur nation, they'd base their economy off of trade and shipping, giving them an excuse to be semi-nomadic while still able to manipulate trade because of how fast they can cover terrestrial routes.

>>61392480
One centaur tribe in some savannah biome could traditionally wear zebra-patterned cloaks as a means of camouflage-say if it were some white-stalked grasses growing in black soil.
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>>61402336
>Considering you can switch back at will it's all pluses.
The only downside is the girl you're attached to.
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>>61402394
Well this is the map most are using, or at least I am->>61342811
But I agree Centaurs would likely have nomadic governances. Perhaps though they are helping facilitate trade routes to the Far West (a Jade Road if you will). Also perhaps there are land routes through the Arctic Circle hounded by the Ice Queen? That could be an interesting storyline.

Flip the script- there are centaur zebras in the Land of Exotic Pelts.
>>61402479
True.
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>>61402575
Perhaps Trade routes would works as such?
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>>61341209
Let's jot down how procreation works in this world.
>Procreation is a magical process where a man gives his magical energy in the form of his semen to start the growth of a baby though once it's done, nothing more from the man is needed. Sorta like plasma.
>The coupling species must be similar enough, usually based on physical appearance and sapience. Sex between sapients and non-sapients never produces offspring for example.
>Since the infant grows in the females womb, the species is usually that of the mother with a few traits of the father. If the species are similar enough (like humans, elves and vampires) then hybrids can be created.
>Some species in the previous age like Succubi, Lamia and Harpies developed where they have no men of their own, mating with other species to create offspring.
>The Atlach-Nacha of the previous age seemed to be an exception to this rule, this all male species attaching to the back of a sapients of appropriate size and then mutating them into a giant female spider which it then impregnates to perpetuate it's species. The reason "seemed to be" was said is because it may be that transformed sapient are no longer of their original species, effectively becoming female Atlach-Nacha.
>The Echidna of the previous age had a unique trait where she can absorb and "store" the energy of males that couple with her and they had the widest variety of eligible species available. By mixing these energies she was able to produce many different types of creatures. It it thought that hybrid creatures such as the Manticore and Chimera were first birthed by Echidna.
To be continued.
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>>61402740
>The difficulty of the Demon Lords goal is changing the rules of reality so that males are able to impregnate females of another species with males of their species but producing an offspring of the females species with around a 1:1 ratio. The Demon Lords unsuccessful experiments to try to make it work sometimes resulted in children that started off as human females in the womb before getting turned into a monster female or men that would exclusively impregnate monsters with human males.
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>>61402740
>>61402760
Anything that anyone would like to amend?
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>>61402740
>>61402760
>>61402779
I'd say there's no reason to make it magical in nature. Like maybe that's the explanation in lore, but for us here, I think it's simple to say that monster eggs simply reject sperm with Y chromosomes for instance.

Aside from that I say we should avoid hybrid species, since there are so many species in the setting to begin with. Like maybe we could do stuff like Half-Elves, but they are still technically full-blooded elves, they just have shorter ears for example.

Also the Atlach-Nacha are aligned with the Abyss, and I always figured the Abyss has only started doing stuff in the modern age.
>>
Proposition:

The first Lilim is the one who learned the art of creating pocket dimensions, and her great work is the Nexus- a plane that exists between pocket dimensions and serves as both a hub between them for interdimensional travel, as well as a form of fast-travel on the mortal plane, not enough to transport armies across continents, but enough to ensure easy diplomatic communique's across the world.

Comments, concerns?
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>>61404327
I'd say she isn't the first one to make them, just the most powerful in recent memory at making them.
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>>61402836
>I'd say there's no reason to make it magical in nature. Like maybe that's the explanation in lore, but for us here, I think it's simple to say that monster eggs simply reject sperm with Y chromosomes for instance.
>Aside from that I say we should avoid hybrid species, since there are so many species in the setting to begin with. Like maybe we could do stuff like Half-Elves, but they are still technically full-blooded elves, they just have shorter ears for example.
There are other components of gametes than the X or Y chromosomes. Using the real life reproduction rules means that the monster blood that gives a monstergirl monster features will get thinner and thinner over the generations.
I would agree with you on avoiding hybrids but with regards to Half-Elves, Primera Concerto from Fallen Maidens is elven on her mothers side and human on her fathers side. If she wasn't a hybrid, she would have been turned into an elf monster, not a half-elf half-werewolf.
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>>61402740
One thing I would change about Echidna would be giving her daughters a slight chance of birthing another Echidna, just so they aren't stuck with negative population growth.
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>>61400312
>>61400695
How long does it usually take for whoever to translate these to translate these?
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>>61406091
Perhaps that's why they were trying to collect the right combinations in order to produce another Echidna. A bizarre eugenics program.
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>>61400312
>>61400695
>all that loli

Gonna need two Red Orders for this
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>>61406120
pretty sure it depends on commissions
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>>61405765
True, I don't want to say Lilims invented pocket dimensions, but perhaps shes the current pioneer, and came up with the idea of a nexus to link them and for travel.
>>61405957
Monstergirls would become thinner over time?

I fix that just by saying demihumans can be corrupted just like humans. Gotta share that corruption love with everyone. And as I said, you could still have half-elves technically, it's just that she'd be a half-elf, it's just that means her human parentage manifests itself in smaller ears, than literally being half-human and half-elf. Same with other Demihumans, they are still technically 100% of whatever they are, just they have one or two giveaways to their parentage.
>>61406091
Or have Echidna's firstborn always be echidna's, but I like your idea more.
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>>61400312
>seems it goes into detail about magic
>also magics various schools
>fucking ghost witch
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I wonder how corrupted humans who wish to remain loyal to the Order are treated compared to other monsters.
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>>61408005
I doubt they could just go around announcing they were corrupted. There is no doubt a more than zero percentage of the Order's people hiding tails and scales under their armor while doing their day to day.
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>>61408005
Not as well as humans.
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>>61408005
A Corrupted human by definition cannot remain loyal to the Order, they find the Order's life unacceptable in their new existence. Remember, Corruption is as much a mental change as a physical one.
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>>61408243
There are Order-aligned monsters, at least in this version, right? I imagine there are Order priests who want to treat individuals who are tainted by demonic energy.
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>>61408360
This is true. Most monsters are tolerated, though the extra corrupt ones like demons or undead not as much.
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>>61408005
It's acknowledged that sometimes people can get corrupted into a monster or incubus through no fault of their own. This usually leads to having to leave their old life behind, either living in a remote convent or becoming part of an Inquisitor's retinue.
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>>61402336
>Well what are some good ideas for Golems then?
I meant as in the Land of Mists monsters that already exists
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>>61402336
Really thinking about it besides the mindflayer are any of the chaos transformations bad?
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Damn, it looks like either heroes get captured by a monster girl or go along long enough that they turn into an alp.
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>>61408944
I wonder if it okay to assume than that the same goes for female heros, but turn into succubi instead.

Also i guess this is saying elementalists will usually end up creating and getting fucked by elementals?
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>>61402671
>Zipnagu in the middle of an inlet sea
>no space for Land of Eros
>no space for Land Forgotten by Time
>no space for Silk Road
>no space for open steppes
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>>61408944

Makes sense in the MGE world. The ultimate goal of all heroes is to kill the demon lord, and it's clear that you have to be at least god-level strength just to stand a chance. The demon lord's army alone is absurdly powerful, and the DL herself is most likely a level above that.
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>>61408944
>Adventurer > Hero
>Straight Hero > Seduced
>Gay Hero > Alp'd

The perfect system.
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>>61409010
I thought the land of exotic pelts counted as a land forgotten by time. And eros doesn't really require a land since her agents are techinally angels, anyone can worshipper her and her monsters probably have their own realm in heaven (though they propably have much less influence up their due to their neutrality boardering on betrayal)
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>>61409482
Acording to the fallen knights story their exists a monster whos sole goal is to go around and mark potential alps. Once that happens monsters will actually stop targeting the guy as a husband and instead attempt to alp him.
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>>61409048
How powerful are gods in the setting?
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>>61409968
That setting or this one?
... More importantly why is MGE specifically being discussed here with it's own sources, doesn't /jp/ exist for that kind of stuff?

>>61408360
>>61408386
"Tainted by" isn't the same as being Corrupted proper, though. Someone tainted by Corruption, like the Scarred are physically? Well it depends on how much the Order understands about it and how zealous they are, thus by extension what era they're in. Early days nothing, they wouldn't know - once they figure it out, a zero-tolerance policy, eventually shifting as the rest of the Order does to treating it like a sickness or addiction.
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>>61409523
>I thought the land of exotic pelts counted as a land forgotten by time.
Wrong, Land of Exotic Pelts is techincally Saharan Africa
>And eros doesn't really require a land since her agents are techinally angels
Also wrong, the land of Eros is techincally not!India or cambodia, and no, her agents include Gandharva harpies and Apsara spirits
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>>61410192
I'd like to hear both if possible.

Took a quick look at /jp/'s monster girl thread and it's mostly discussion about waifus then KC's setting.
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>>61410664
I'm not a good source on either, never picked up MGE in my life and if it were up to me I'd either have no Gods and just a Heaven in this setting or at least stick to one god damn Pantheon (but then why have you torn them in their specificity straight from the real world and gah!).

I'm just repeating the old rhetoric. Point is if you want stuff about that, look for it elsewhere, because here isn't really the place for that discussion of that material.
... We really should change OP at some point, do we need those inspirations listed anymore when we actually have things of our own to advertise?
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>>61408766
No reason not to add another one.
>>61408852
I'd say it's a matter of doctrine. Also knowing that they all turn their husbands into squids has got to freak them out. Fair? Probably not, but that's the point.
>>61409010
What's wrong wtih putting Zipangu in an inlet sea?

When was the Land of Eros a thing? You mean not!India? If so I would put them under where the map is, same spot where the Mist Continent is, but at the latitudes of the Desert Continent. That or attach them to the Mist Continent at round abouts the same place.

Land Forgotten by time is meant to be a pocket dimension. Or at the very least we haven't had enough discussion to place it anywhere else.

The Steppes are further west off the map. It's pretty much all open land, so there's not much point in mapping it right now.
>>61409552
I thought that was a subconscious Gaydar thing built into monsters?
>>61409968
I'd say less than omnipotent. Probably roundabouts of where say the Greek Pantheon or such are at.
>>61410442
>sub-saharan
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>>61410860
>I thought that was a subconscious Gaydar thing built into monsters?
Yeah i think your right. Im a fucking retard and forgot that the world guide sides are non cannon. Sorry about that.

>I'd say it's a matter of doctrine. Also knowing that they all turn their husbands into squids has got to freak them out. Fair? Probably not, but that's the point.
I am confused. What do you mean by this.
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>>61410860
>sub-saharan
nope, saharan, sub-saharan was what some anon prosposed as an Ivory Coast/Gold mines cities
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>>61410975
Well that the Order is a theocratic state that still upholds arbitrary doctrine- even if a chaos cultist is a good person, and promises not to spread corruption, they are probably not going to trust her based on her species (though some exceptions may exist they wouldn't be the rule).
>>61411006
Well I'm the one who proposed the Land of Exotic pelts, and I meant it as a mash of west, east, and central African civilizations, nations and monsters. So you'd have savannah, jungle, even some deserts, but it would be based on sub-Saharan Africa, and not the Sahara itself or north Africa (which would be represented in the desert continent).
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>It's also highly versatile, and one can easily modify the magic's effects even just by adding to the incantation or spell formula. When developing new magics, research is usually conducted using archaeomancy, and most of the systems of magic that currently exist are also derived from archaeomancy.
Thats....slightly more interesting and in depth then I was expecting
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>>61406120
Like a year or so for the whole thing if previous world guides are anything to go by
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>>61411479
Oh but it's not going to be I be blank the whole time. There will probably be like a section or two a month, maybe more. The guy who commissions the translations is accepting donations but I think it's against 4chan rules to just post he link to his PayPal here
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>>61411457
If the Japanese weren't so autistic, we wouldn't love them as much as we do.
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>>61411058
I was more talking about how the chaos transformations are just really fun and probably useful for anyone who gets them.
Of course besides the mindflayer due to it just being able to turn into a squid.

Not sure how you got to the forces of order.
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>>61411900
Well yeah anyone who gets transformed can switch back it's harmless, but so is anal sex, but you try being a filthy sodomite in church.
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>>61411921
I mean if your dumb enough to show off to order authorities that you have this super cool spider or nightguant transformation than you probably deserved death. Unless of course your literally saving their life with it.
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>>61411995
Yeah, but it's much harder to hide your wives tentacle hair.
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>>61411058
>Well I'm the one who proposed the Land of Exotic pelts, and I meant it as a mash of west, east, and central African civilizations, nations and monsters. So you'd have savannah, jungle, even some deserts, but it would be based on sub-Saharan Africa, and not the Sahara itself or north Africa (which would be represented in the desert continent).
huh, still, that one map doesn't express enough landmass for that, s' what I'm saying
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>>61409482
So do bi and asexual heroes break the system then?
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>>61412076
I dont know. I am pretty positive that all chaos mamano can hide or can look pretty human. The only one who cant is the mindflayer.
Which really just proves how she is truly the inferior chaos waifu.
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>>61412173
Nah, Corruption makes them heterosexual anyways, in this system at least.
Kinda fucked up, huh? That's what happens when you let a succubus try and change the nature of everyone's reality, they do things from their perspective.
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>>61412173
Bi depends on what way you lean and Asexuality is a meme for humans.
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>>61412173
>>61412211
I think we decided to get rid of the gay conversion therapy part though.
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>>61412241
I thought we kept it because it specifically because it was kind of insidious as all fuck. I mean, Corruption will cure your depression and any other mental illness, it'll also make you not homosexual as well, because it cures "defects".
Because who the fuck doesn't want to read about a pair of gays getting corrupted and slowly coming to terms with the fact they don't love each other but finding happiness in other people, but forever feeling like something's ever so slightly off, that this isn't the way things are meant to be... that their fate has been Corrupted, somehow?
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>>61412310
Eh. I get what you are saying, but that seems overboard for me.

Also yuri is for pure.
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>>61412419
>Implying I'm not a mega fujoshi who wants to cry over unrequited love stripped away by Corruption
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>>61412310
>>61412501
What about undead girls and liches who make this sort of stuff in tomes, hidden away from the world in underground towns and caves? Some of the subjected featured in their works are heroes of the Order and DL alike. Adventurers who try to stop them either end up a part of their circle or end up being the subjects of said tomes, used to help 'reference' poses.
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>>61412310
>>61412419
>>61412501
I just had an idea of a story, in where a corrupted human living in the royal makai discovers that he used to be gay and is attempting to leave while his former wife is trying to chase him down.
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>>61412572
I mean, fiction exists in all forms, and always has, no need to be undead to make that sort of thing happen. Demons encourage it, Order doesn't really much care unless you take over a printing press to do it.
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>>61412572
Yaoi and Futa are considered the blackest of black magic.
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>>61412626
That's gonna be tragic. He goes to find his ex-lover just to reconnect because even if he doesn't love him anymore he's still his friend, but his ex still has feelings for him, and even if the two do spend time together all it's going to do is Corrupt the ex into not loving him anymore because he'll be heterosexual, and both of them after all is said and done will be happy it happened.
... Man, that's fucked up. I love it.
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>>61412710
I mean if alps are a thing it probably doesn't matter as much as either one can turn into an alp and they can continue on with the relationship. Just a wee bit of gay conversion so they don't hate hetero sex. Dont even have to change the personality much.
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>>61412710
Another dimension is that Is that people are starting to become immune to the effects of corruption, essentially causing the 'divorce' rate to skyrocket. Making both the demon lord forces and the sabbath scrambling for a solution.
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>>61412852
That is like being immune to fire or the wind.
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>>61412789
Alps I think WERE thrown out.
Corruption making you heterosexual is fucked, but it's acknowledged both in and out of universe that it's a change, it's Corruption taking someone and twisting them to fit more with the Demonlord's image of humanity, as coloured by her demonic perceptions.
Alps have the implication that the way to "fix" heterosexuality as a perceived defect by demons is that it's not the attraction that's wrong, but that all gays are secretly trans, which sort of implies gays don't exist because what the Corruption would really be curing at that point is the gender dysphoria, not the homosexuality. So yeah, that's kinda fucked up.
Though, if Corruption DOES cure gender dysphoria by Monsterising/Demonising you into being the right sex, you can tell a story with that if you really wanted, and it's one of those things that is genuinely in Corruption's favour, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

There were some other reasons Alps eventually got scrapped as well, but that's the one I remember from discussions around them ages and ages ago, the meta implications of their existence.
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>>61412852
Not... really? Everything the character would theoretically do in such a story is in line with the actions of the Corrupted: finding someone they used to care about (even if they don't love them anymore), Corrupting them intentionally or otherwise, and their spouses being rather possessive of them. All of that's within the lines of what the Corrupted do, they're still people after all, and often times the best stories to tell of those that are Corrupted are one of tragic circumstance of it's draw or, sometimes as in this case, effects.
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How would you illustrate a character that essentially becomes a shadowy figure of themselves that if noticed would only appear to be wearing something like a ninja mask when activating it? A vaguely shaped humanoid figure made of a dark, billowing aura?

My character is sort of a monster girl at this point.
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>>61413310
http://mgewiki.com/w/Kunoichi
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>>61413310
Have smoke like strands coming off their presumably visible eyes, streaking out into the air.
Make their edges softer, remove the definition to their figure, maybe give them an aura of sorts too, like flecks of black all around. I'm no artist though, take from that what you will.
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>>61413344
>Just a human with tattoos
MGE is fucking gay
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>>61413395
I suppose I could have her eyes visible, although generally I would guess the ability would essentially cover her entire body except for the mask, where the aura would ultimately come from.
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>>61413531
Have it leaking out from behind the mask then?
Go ask an actual artfag somewhere, we're clearly incapable of that shit, oweing to the lack of any and all original artwork.
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>>61413462
Kunoichi being a monster girl is pretty stupid, since it's a profession, not a race.
The whole Dark Priest thing is also pretty stupid as well for the same reason.
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>>61413344
>just a human with tattoos
>and atrophied wings
>a tail that doubles as a weapon and grappling hook
>enhanced ninja techniques from an increase in magical power and physical ability
>there are entire villages of these night stalking man predators
MGE is pretty gay but you're a big gay too.
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>>61413860
So... still just a ninja with tattoos? If the wings are useless so they might as well not exist and you've got a Kurasigama (even as a tail), you're a pop-culture ninja, and with actual powers you're just a myth ninja.
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>>61413933
>he doesn't like ninjas
shit taste
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>>61410192
>"Tainted by" isn't the same as being Corrupted proper, though.
Except it is? There is no diference between half tank full and full tank.
>>61410664
No being has been given stats, so as to how powerful they are is up to interpretation, so far each Deity has a sphere of influence or whatever concept or idea they reign over like War, Love, the Seas and so on, which also happens to be the same pretty much on both settings.
>>61410860
>What's wrong wtih putting Zipangu in an inlet sea?
Everything? The entire concept of Japan is to be isolated by the Ocean and open seas.
>When was the Land of Eros a thing? You mean not!India?
Literally in the MGE cards of Houris, Apsaras and Gandharvas.
>Land Forgotten by time is meant to be a pocket dimension.
And others have said they consider it as a replacement for the New World.
>The Steppes are further west off the map. It's pretty much all open land
The entire point of adding the steppes is to be intermediary between Asia, Europe and Arabia for the Silk Road.
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>>61414454
Oh c'mon Vorenus, you know as well as I do there are functional, civilised Monsters, so evidently you can have the tank "Half full" if you like without going all-in on the Demon thinking, else all Monsters would be rape machines.
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>>61414569
The response was "in-world", as in, tongue in cheek anon.
But to be serious, yes and no, there is no full tank when regarding corruption because by then, you're no longer human, if the vessel is thoroughly corrupted you get DEMON'D, though I am still unsure how to treat undeath and infection (as in lycanthropic) since those can turn women into monsters without regarding corruption, unless undeath means filling the corpse with corruption to jump start it back into life.
Having some degree of corruption in your system on the other hand is still a huge yellow to red flag(depends on whether you want to have corruption be treatable or curable.
Also, regarding this conversation on
>>61408005
>>61408048
>>61408243
Getting corrupted as in, the taint in your system would pretty much be a "working hazard", you are dispached to deal with corrupted beings or demons, come back for checking and spend X time in penance or solitude, again whether to purge or "seal" it in place and go on as usual, now, if you start sprouting parts that aren't usually seen on the human body, or start regrowing lost limbs, then you might find you won't be recieving the ususal treatment, as for "what if I am corrupted (aka. LOST) and still want to kamikaze on a demon?", I think I would ask "are you really sure you want to gamble on that?"
>>61413076
>Alps I think WERE thrown out.
Not really? I don't remember they were.
There was arguing about doing it or not, that I am sure of.
I'm not btw
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>>61414841
It's not like there's exactly any consistency here, unless it goes in the archive it isn't 'canon', just sort of adopted from common opinion.

But let's have that discussion. Corruption causes random gender changing in gays because...?

Also my captcha's having a seizure...
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>>61414985
>Corruption causes random gender changing in gays because...?
I think I've said this one like a thousand time, but, dealing with corruption is literal monkey paw deals, the gender change as-is is more geared by concept with the japanese view on twink gays and genderbend themes on manga
>>
This talk of alps is making me wonder if its gay to like gender bend. Sexually i would say no, but i would be interested to hear arguments for it being gay to be an "alp chaser".
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>>61406677
Unfortunately for the Red Order, they'd obviously loose against powerful and magical monster girls. Especially against the Sabbath. The Red Order can only soo much against monstergirls such as those of the Sabbath and inflict so little damage.

Red Order looses of course.
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>>61413076
We kept the baphomets and the sabbath, we just sorta toned down the behavior. We can do the same with alps. We could change it to rather than making you a woman, it turns you into the bottom in the relationship.
Not to mention, it is tied to corruption, which is already grimdark so it makes sense for this to be the case. As well, in these times few would accept the homosexual beyond the royals who do it in secrect so for some men, it would be seen as a somewhat viable option, a way to purge themselves of sin by accepting another sin. Its grim as hell, but it makes sense.
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>>61415525
Okay, but "Well in Japan..." isn't an argument, we're not Japan and nor do their views that all gays are trans or some shit matter here. More importantly it's a monkey's paw for what? Usually a monkey's paw comes with some degree of irony because it takes what the asker wants and twists it somehow, either perverting the intent or giving them EXACTLY what they want until the person finds they don't like it. In what situation would "Oh, and it turned you into a girl btw" either not be utterly destroying a person's psyche because, y'know, they've forcibly had their sex changed to one their brain doesn't agree with, or they're given the usual dose of Corruption happiness with their new existence in which case it ceases to be a Monkey's Paw because they're still happy with it?

>>61416400
>Few would accept homosexuality
I mean historically people didn't accept women but the Order's go full gender equality on account of literally being told by their deity, and it being a fuckload harder to call women the weaker sense when you're fighting an entire race of them, most of whom are a fuckload more physically intimidating than you... so I don't really see why they'd have a hatred for homosexuality if such an order wasn't in their religious code either.
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>>61416161
In real life? Well that depends on what you're into genderbending for. If it's for some kinda power play involving a change to a more traditionally submissive form, then it's probably not gay, just an aspect of that power play.
If you're into it because you like the more boyish/androgynous look, you might be a little gay (well, a little bi I guess, but semantics) because that includes more masculine than normal features on a girl, which you could argue indicates at least some attraction to that less-than-fully-feminine look. Then there's the actual genitals, if you wouldn't be happy ending a date with an Alp finding there's a dick there, you're probably not all that gay.

So you might be a little gay? But probably not very gay, that's like saying that liking tomboys makes you gay, even if they're a little more traditionally masculine than normal that doesn't make you gay. Liking dicks or the male form, THAT makes you gay.

The real question is why Alps aren't just glorious femmeboy trapfus so we can ask if traps are gay for the nth time.
>>
>>61416937
>The real question is why Alps aren't just glorious femmeboy trapfus so we can ask if traps are gay for the nth time.
Because i want my fag friend to become a cute girl(female) that i can impregnate and marry. That sounds really bad in my head when typing it.
>>
>>61417314
This is mge/tg/, we've seen worse
>>
what happened to the jp thread?
>>
>>61353724
>>Yeah, but with other demihumans, for every elf born between a human and an elven mother you'd have a human born from a elf and a human mother so unlike with monsters it evens itself out.
Actually half elves are a confirmed thing in the setting.
>>
>>61412419
>yuri is pure
Unfortunately I think that's a meme. Lesbian relationships have a higher frequency of reported abuse compared to gay and straight relationships. Then again this could just be a factor of females being more likely to report than males, especially since gay relationships report less abuse than straight relationships.
>>
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>>61414454
Well the map is depicting an ocean. I'm not so good with scale, so perhaps that's not coming across well. But the NOT!Japan needn't be entirely geographically isolated. No more than say the NOT!New World, or NOT!Sub-Saharan Africa, or NOT!Aboriginal Australia.

I already mentioned what I would do with NOT!India. Also I think a better name would say be the Ivory Kingdoms (cause you know, war elephants and shit).

Well that's something we should address, since we already have a new world with the Far West.

And in my map it's an intermediary for the Order Mainlands and the Far West. It's fantasy romebro. I'm allowed to move around the pieces. It's why I use an eastern oriented map.
>>61414841
I'd say something like Lycanthropy works as you get a bit of corruption in you, but it doesn't stay stagnant, but instead builds over time until the right catalyst sets it off (the Full Moon).
>>61414985
>>61415525
I say alps only exist for the transgendered. Which really isn't that much smaller a population than transgendered males and homosexual men. Gay men otherwise are kind of a wrench in the system.
>>61416784
Maybe tolerance of homosexuality is a new thing then? Perhaps the Gods noticed that gays don't show up on monsters radar, and they went to the Order and told them 'hey we like homo's now, use them to fight monsters'. People may still be uncomfortable with the idea, but legally you can't stone the homo's anymore.

Also this would result in probably a counter-ops group within the Demon Lords forces, perhaps the White Hand, who specifically deals with neutralizing homosexual hero's without seduction?
>>61416937
I think one can be attracted to masculine women without being gay in the slightest. Girl Abs for instance.
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>>61418327
We're in the middle of hashing that out. For now I favor that Half-Elves are still techinically full-blooded elves, they just have shorter ears that signal they had a human father for instance. Like if a half-elf woman had a daughter with a half-dwarf man, the child wouldn't be 25% dwarf, 25% elf, and 50% human, it would be 100% elf, just maybe a bit shorter (if we use elder scrolls rules where the kid is whatever the mother is).
>>61419215
Fuck that man. Anime.
>>
>>61419215
I think its because the whole perceived balance of power and the ability to injure without being hit back. People see women as weaker so a butch women may be subconsciously more secure in physically abusing her partner than a gay man against his.
Idk how psychological abuse factors in and psychology in general though so i am probably wrong.
>>
>>61419343
Or it could be the other way around. The weaker partner may feel that they can push around the stronger partner because if the latter retaliates, they will be much more liable than the original abuser. In a heterosexual relationship, it align with common sense to default to the view that the woman is typically weaker and therefore the victim, even if the facts completely contradict that (and the fact that common sense isn't reliable in many situations).
>>
>>61419392
Very true about that. I wonder if that same logic could be used for forced to penetrate rape as well? Like a girl would be fine doing it because she knows that the guy cant retaliate lest he be called the aggressor.
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>>61419475
Or a fag because how dare he not be a slut.
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>>61419265
None of these issues with homosexuality or even straight women exist if you just Open your heart and accept that Monsterboys exist
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>>61417314
Boys make the best girls.
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>>61419494
Or a guy whos already engaged in a relation ship/married because how dare he cheat.
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>>61413860
>atrophied wings
Where?
>a tail
Whoopdifuckingdoo.
>enhanced ninja techniques from an increase in magical power and physical ability
So Naruto is a monstergirl now?
>there are entire villages of these night stalking man predators
And how does this change the fact that they're just humans?

If your monstergirl is less monster than a fucking catgirl then you fucking failed. As it stands elves are more monstrous than these things.
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>>61420027
I think the thing has knife-ears, so strictly speaking it is just a fancy shinobi Elf calling itself a Demon.
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So, what do you think would be the United States in MGE?
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>>61420542
No idea, ask a thread concerned with MGE, because this isn't it.
Or at least it isn't supposed to be...
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>>61420542
I proposed the Confederation of Thirteen, though they'd be half burgeland, and half Iroquois Nation. Thirteen Tribes who have banded together to protect themselves from Viking monster raids, raids from the plains nomads, and from raids from the Dragon Empires. They are very democratic and republican, and welcome people of all stripes into their nation, including Order Refugees coming in from the Jade Road.
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>>61420626
Yeah, and pretty much everyone shot the idea down pretty fuckin' quick. I appreciate that you're super passionate about your ideas, but when you have good ones they get adopted, so... y'know, pick your battles.
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>>61420562
>Or at least it isn't supposed to be...
HAHAHAHA
>>
>>61420670
I mean... it really isn't and never has been, it was literally born out of taking "MGE is shite, we're making our own setting with blackjack and hookers" for a theoretical system that never saw the light of day on account of it like everything posted here being shit.
You can literally go back through the archive and find the pages upon pages of arguments of "How do we get people to stop associating this shit with MGE when it's like really specifically not that?" to the point of putting that it isn't that in the OP.

Is that what you want, anon? Do you want me to go back and show you the origins and those discussions? Evidently that was a losing or even lost battle, I've been out the loop a while, but I still remember, dammit.
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>>61420732
>it really isn't and never has been
Pffffffffft
>>
>>61420644
I mean I never saw any good reason not to include it. People got super autistic when they thought they were supposed to be colonies, which is stupid because I never mentioned the word colonies.

I mean they'd be Indians, the Far West is where Indians live, the Indians were pretty democratic and a large part of the US constitution was based on the Iroquois Confederation so no reason why we can't blend the two, and the Far West has navigable routes to large parts of the world, so no reason they wouldn't have minorities from say the Order, or Desert Continent, or the Land of Exotic Pelts.
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>>61420764
No, people got pissed about ignoring the social, economic and political situations which led to the nature of what the US was.
Suffice it to say if everyone tells you to stop doing something when the only consistent lore is public opinion, you should probably stop doing it even if YOU like it. There's a reason there's no Paladinfags anymore, they all left because they lost the battle for public opinion.
>>
>>61420850
Nah, i'mma keep being autistic.

What social, economic, and political situations? I mean it's fantasy, doesn't need to be one-to-one, and we can fudge the numbers if need be.

I mean, in my mind the important parts would be that it's democratic and egalitarian. Doesn't need to be some world spanning empire, doesn't need to have a two-party system. You want to say they threw off a king, sure, we'll say in the past the confederation was ruled by a dictator that they overthrew.
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>>61420889
I'm not gonna have this fuckin' argument dude, everything that needed to be said was said at the time.
Feel free to keep it for your head canon, but don't try and say it's accepted.
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>>61420921
I didn't. I said I proposed it.
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>>61419667
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>>61416784
>Okay, but "Well in Japan..." isn't an argument, we're not Japan and nor do their views that all gays are trans or some shit matter here.
>Making a setting out of a Japanese setting, which in turn is based an all the most common themes and tropes found in JRPGs
>More importantly it's a monkey's paw for what? Usually a monkey's paw comes with some degree of irony because it takes what the asker wants and twists it somehow
>"I want to be with Knight-senpai or Crusader-kun and would do ANYTHING for it to happen"
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>>61422454
>Fantasy Byzantirome
>Fantasy friendly-crusaders
>Eldritch Horrors and a sunken city holding back those unspeakable things
>Holy Knights fighting Demons and Monsters for God and Glory
>"Japanese"
>Entire morale dilemma and structure based around Western values and re-interpretation of baseline dilemma, all major factions work from a framework of aforementioned Western style (not least because most of the thread is, I assume, not Nipponese)
>"Gotta look at Japan's morals and way of looking at it, dude."

That monkey's paw is actually a pretty good example though, I can admit when I'm beat, unrequited gay love can be a god damn body blow. But in that case why not just Monsterise/Demonise the prospective Corruptee into the other gender normally, why have a Demon specifically dedicated to being andro traps/reverse traps, and why is it only for such specific instances it only effects fags?
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>>61420542
Danukis did 9/11
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>>61418327
>Actually half elves are a confirmed thing in the setting.
Which? MGE? Interesting, though not outlandish or straight up conflicting with things already discussed, elves so far while not wholy human are more human than anything.
>>61420850
>There's a reason there's no Paladinfags anymore, they all left because they lost the battle for public opinion.
Excuse me?
>>61420732
Anon, we both know he doesn't care, so going thorugh that discussion isn't really worth anyone's time.
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>>61423203
I mean, ARE there Paladinfags?
And no, the romebros don't count, you're Legionnaires.
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>>61422770
Don't be bigoted, boyim! My grandmother's cousin's distant friend fought in the war sabotoging latex shipments to stop the Great Contraception!
Danukis make me think "What if we took everything /pol/ thinks Jews are and put it into a raccoon?". I'll try to stop, but it's tempting to roleplay as a stormfag.
>>
The problem of Alps is part of a larger problem with the demonlord, in that she doesn't have any respect for love that can't make babies, if she were really going to help she'd just help out yaoi and yuri relations by making mpreg and futa a thing, or some other magical power of love babies, but she really only gives a shit about repeating her relationship, that of a monster woman loving a human man. She has no concern for the other nuances of love.
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>>61398427
Here.
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>>61423396
>Lesbians in love with each other
>Fought to have their families accept them as who they are in a world that does not have a role for them
>Made concessions and compromises, but never on their love for each other
>One gets corrupted and literally feels the love they had for their wife leech away from them as their mind is overtaken with lust for cock
>The other swears revenge on all Monsters
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>>61423493
So how does being able to turn into a tentacle spider not make the man qualify as a male monster?
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>>61423396
Ends justify the means anon.

The more babies being had, the more demonic energy there is, the sooner she can fix everything, and stop having to convert the gays.
>>61423558
I think it's a technical matter.

It's more like he's a sentient spider animal, rather than something that has built in corruption in him. You can call him a monster sure, but that would technically be innacurate.
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>>61423628
Thing is I don't expect her to stop "fixing" even when she runs things, she wants to reshape the world into her image of perfection and homos have no place in it.
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>>61423772
I don't see the problem.
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>>61423772
does that matter? Homos irl will die off due to the genetics linked to it not being passed on anyways.
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>>61423258
You don't own me nor my allegiances, and yes as far as I'm aware there are two other pallybros around, though they mostly hover around the thread nowadays
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>>61423818
It's not a gene
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>>61423772
Which is a core part of the setting- which side do you believe?

That said, I still think Alps should be restricted to trans.
>>61423818
If straight people would stop forcing them to fuck the opposite sex for their disgusting fetishes you mean.
>>61423837
I could go for some desu-vulting.
That was originally a typo but I decided to keep it.
>>
I'd there any way for a person to be completely immune to corruption? Like walk through the demon dimension with no effect? 40k blanks basically. Maybe said human can't produce spirit energy? How would MGs react to someone like that?
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>>61423853
So is it a choice then?

>>61423876
>If straight people would stop forcing them to fuck the opposite sex for their disgusting fetishes you mean.
Yeah thats why i am pro gay marriage. They should be bred out of existence if you just let them.
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>>61423928
One of my favorite standup jokes is- if you want gay people to stop having sex, let them get married!
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>>61423888
That would be an Asexual, thought not strictly aromatic
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>>61423876
What if we say that Raijus can cure homosexuality with their electric currents?
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>>61423888
I don't think so. Corruption infects everything from sentients to animals, to elements, to the deceased.

That said, if someone were immune, I'd say the Demon Lord would simply seek to neutralize them through traditional means.
>>
>>61423928
I don't know man, but if it was a defective gene then lack of breeding would have stamped it out by now
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>>61423988
Like >>61423876 said it probably can be chalked up to being forced to breed.
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>>61423988
Social pressures force a lot of homosexual men to have sex and kids. It wasn't really a system you could opt out of until recently, and even then autists keep reeing about it.

That said, we see about the same rates of homosexuality within the animal kingdom, it seems to be a bit of a population control mechanism to keep a small portion of the population not having sex to avoid overpopulation.
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>>61423818
>Homos will die off
>Homos continue to exist millennia on from the start of humanity
They aren't going anywhere my dude, sorry.
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>>61423980
>Neutralize them through traditional means
So, murder? What if it's just some dude they found. I'd understand if he were some sort of knight doing a one man crusade, but would some random dude deserve death for being the anthesis of corruption?

>>61423957
How does that have anything to do with the idea, anon? Keep LGBT in /lgbt/.
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>>61423988
I take the view that it's most likely caused by childhood sexual trauma.
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>>61423818
>>61423876
>>61423928
Homosexuality is most likely caused gestationally. For homosexual men, the most common cause is said to be the result of the immune system going autoimmune and attacking certain cells in the male fetus.

It could have something to do with genetics, though, since homosexuals still reproduce despite their preferences for the same sex.


>>61423888
If you can somehow purify a concept and put it into living form, maybe that'll work. Alternatively, find a way to "sanitize" souls.
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>>61424063
Indeed it's probably something latent that is stimulated by high population.
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>>61423957
Did we ever decide of Corruption was JUST sexuality or if it was temptation and hedonism generally? So sure, being asexual makes you immune to lust, but if you have another vice Corruption will prey on that.
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>>61424117
You are wrong according to all known science, anon. It's not a choice, and you can't MAKE someone gay, nor are there similar upbringings in gays to even give that as a correlation. Regardless of how it is, it isn't going anywhere, much like it doesn't in animals.
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>>61424093
No, not really, not what I was going for.

Murder would be an option, but only if that were necessary. They could also use imprisonment, bribery, persuasion, misdirection, and so on. And if he's just some random dude who's not causing problems, they leave him alone cause he's not causing problems.
>>61424117
>>61424137
The best science at the moment, from what I hear, seems to indicate that its hormones doing their thing early in development.
>>
>>61424140
The general vibe I've seen is lust and sexual depravity that often likes to call itself love, the fact that monsters are capable of love makes them eager to Blurr the lines
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>>61424166
I assume you could make some straight people gay and vice versa, but not all of them. They would have to be pretty plastic with their sexuality, and even then they'll likely just become bisexual.
>>
>/lgbt/ inserts into a concept and somehow makes it all about gay shit
I came here for Monster girl!WHF and now the fags are shoving their own thing into it.

/pol was right again.
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>>61424223
Sorry anon ill stop. I am just said i cant marry and waifu my fag friend once they alp.
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>>61424213
What would you even have to subject someone to to change something so core a part of them like that?

As an aside, near 50 posters, did this place get more busy semi-recently or something?
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>>61424166
I would literally trust random homeless people on the street over professional psychologists. At least you know the hobo isn't getting paid to lie.
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>>61424223
To be fair if you've got a thing that includes at least some elements of sex and sexuality, which this obviously does due to the whole "fertility's a major issue" and "temptation and subterfuge by Demons" thing, amongst others, the topic of sexuality is going to come up sooner or later, it's a natural part of the conversation.
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>>61424269
>>61424301
numbers have been steady for near two months actually
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>>61424298
So in other words nobody who could possibly present any data will ever be valid to you because they're all CLEARLY lying?
Well, congratulations, your worldview is impenetrable I guess because it's literally immune to data. What do you want, anecdote?
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>>61424140
It gives you a bunch of powerful new instincts, which generally are focused on fucking. Whether you choose to indulge or restrain those instincts is then up to you.

But monster culture is generally hedonistic, both in the general use in the term, and also in the moral use of the term. That said, I'd say they are probably only as hedonistic as say modern society, it's not like it's the Purge all-day-every-day in the Demon Realm.
>>61424213
If their sexuality is plastic to begin with, then they weren't straight to begin with.
>>61424223
Yes anon. Alps are part of the Gay agenda.
>>61424298
>I'm going to use my own ignorance as evidence to support my own ignorance.
>>61424342
This is actually not that unusual. Societies go through waves of anti-intellectualism with time. Individuals ask themselves 'well what has science, learning, common sense and rational done for me lately? I'm struggling to make ends meat in a society based on enlightenment values, so clearly those values are bunk'.

Thankfully these idiots get their teeth kicked in when, say, they refuse to vaccinate and all get smallpox. But they can do lasting damage to a society (fascism was a movement that was explicitly against enlightenment values and rejected logic in favor of emotion, one of the reasons the Nazi's researched magic in hopes of inventing superweapons, while dismissing Atomic Theory as politically motivated 'Jewish' Science).
>>
>>61424342
I don't know man. Psychology seems to be heavily influenced by a certain brand of politics in recent times.
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>>61424342
Let him go, he's just another flat Earther
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>>61424425
>If their sexuality is plastic to begin with, then they weren't straight to begin with.
If they are somehow exposed early in childhood in one way, perhaps they were discouraged from being emotional, especially around other guys, then they might turn out straight because they never had a chance to mold their emotional senses for guys, and therefore have no chance of being infatuated by one.
This is all just a hypothesis. I'm basing this off of people who have had a family history of sociopaths, but never turned out a one because of their childhood.
Who knows? In 5 years, half the shit we know about psychology is going to change anyways, so very little is really set in stone.
>>
>>61424310
Thats the thing, MGE and shit it inspires is designed for heterosexual shit. Talking baout how different sexualities react is one thing, saying shit like "omnipansexual bipolar xeople get X power" is what I see this devolving into. Case in point >>61423957 is the first step.

MGE is supposed to be an escapist setting for nip office drones who can't get any. Shoving lgbt shit into anything is almost universally a bad idea because it attracts the snowflake brayherd who will always demand more of it.
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>>61424430
Even granting that to be true, wouldn't it be more honest to throw your arms up and say "I don't know, and I don't think anybody else does" than claiming something else without sufficient evidence?
Well, that or you go out and be the change you want to see in the world, get a buttload of gays together and ask them about their childhoods, compare that with an average of the heterosexual population in that area and of that upbringing and see if there's some trend among them. If you do the data yourself you know you're not lying, right? Just remember to keep your own biases in mind lest you fall into the same traps; nothing shameful about admitting you have them, we all do.
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>>61424543
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>>61424543
I was just answering the question of what might be immune to sexual corruption
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>>61424543
Sure, and if anybody goes overboard then I'm sure people'd call them out, but I don't think it's all that crazy in terms of what's been discussed thus far. Maybe the asexual thing, because fuck no that wouldn't make you immune to Corruption because Corruption would twist and change you from that same as it does homosexuals, but I'd say hold your horses for now.
I guess the best way to put it is that all faggotry isn't the LGBT community you think of, most of us faggots are normal people and think anything past "Boys, girls, both, neither" is BS.
>>
>>61424515
Unless you have a doctorate in psychology, you shouldn't be making such conclusions, and should focus on what the experts say, until we get evidence to contradict such conclusions.

As of now the experts are saying it's not a psychological matter, nor is it something that is fluid (I mean there are people with fluid sexualities, but they are on the spectrum, most people are completely straight, and there are a large number of people who are completely gay or completely asexual, or only bi). The best data we have it's a matter of hormones that the body is subjecting itself to as a normal process of the body outside of outside factors.
>>61424543
We shouldn't be a boys only club. We should let the lesbians have fun. Though I do think that there isn't going to be much for gay men here.

Anyway- I think the solution is simple- people on the LGBT spectrum exist, trans get alped, and everyone else is just a wrench in the system that are dealt with by conventional means.
>>
>>61424595
But why would they be immune to it? Isn't corruption supposed to be mostly magical? Last time I checked, magic doesn't gave a shit about what you like and or feel.

You can be a devout sigmarite and still get corrupted even though you didn't want to be because chaos dosen't care.
>>
>>61424674
>We should let the lesbians have fun.
>Include a group of people who have 0 precence on 4chan
Anon...
>>
>>61424716
I mean do you see a reason to go out of our way to ensure the Lesbians can't have fun?
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>>61424661
>most of us faggots are normal people and think anything past "Boys, girls, both, neither" is BS.
And you see, faggots like you are just normal people who like taking/giving it up the ass. You don't let it be your defining character trait like so many others do.
>>
>>61424674
>>61424733
>We shouldn't be a boys only club. We should let the lesbians have fun.
we already did
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>>61424674
I dunno, when this came up ages and ages ago wasn't there a self-professed gay dude who talked about this kind of thing?
Same with lesbians, the two OG makers of the RPG were both women, so if they have an interest it doesn't need to be there.

You don't need to cater to people, they'll come if they've got an interest. Don't try and get mass appeal for the sake of inclusion, let people include themselves if they want to be.
That said your stance is fine, gays exist, Corruption'll make your brain fit your body, you aren't gonna be gay after going through it.
>>
>>61424564
Oh yeah totally agree with that sentiment. I was just trying to point out why anon and myself would distrust modern psychology.
>>
>>61424843
Too often people use the fact that science has been wrong as an excuse to throw out rational thought altogether. The reason we trust science isn't because it's perfect, but because it's the best conclusion we can reach with the best available data, and that when better data arrives we change our conclusion to reach that data.

Now of course, the science of the LGBTQ spectrum is relatively new and underway so it's not an exact science yet, but we should still trust the experts on these matters, since they are the experts, since the alternative is NOT trusting the experts on an issue.
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>>61424693
This desu
>You're a boy and you like boys? You're a girl now.
>You're a girl and you like girls? Too bad you like dick now.
>>
>>61424933
Okay but why not just make the boy like cunts?
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>>61424960
And round the cycle we go.

I say that gays are just gays, monsters just deal with them conventional means (imprisonment, bribery, coercion, etc.)
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>>61424933
I mean at least for lesbians it could just make them bi and go for the same man.

>>61424991
Or just have them like pussy/develop a pussy.
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>>61424991
Feels like some lost storytelling potential, honestly. It's removing a potentially tragic dynamic and an example of the more insidious side of Corruption, and thus by extension a characterisation of the worldview of if not Demons, at least the Demonlord through how Corruption effects people.
The story of a Demon needing to deal with somebody whom regular methods of Corrupting won't work on is rife through the setting, from Paladins to Inquisitors to even Misceans and their non-religious devotion if the Romefags ever want to tackle that, so why not include the gay conversion thing?
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>>61425056
Why the gender differentiation? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to effect men and women the same, just giving them a quick brainscrub to like the 'proper' sex?
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>>61424991
>Liking dick makes you immune to magic
Magic doesn't give a shit about what you like and don't like, magic will make you like it when he you want to or not.

Gay=Alp
Lesbo=bisexual
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>>61425131
You can deal with them the same way a human would. Bribe them, blackmail them, cut them off from any influence they might have, kill them if they have to.
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>>61425131
Cause it feels like overkill for me.

Like one of the things is that the sides are supposed to be relatively of moral equivalent. Well the gay conversion therapy stuff weighs it too heavily in the Order's favor. Now you could make it so the Order stones it's gays, or say they do really terrible witch burnings or something like that, but then that just makes the whole setting grimdark.

Also I think it's quirkier if say the Demons have bribe all the Gays they come across or something like that, since they can't seduce them.
>>61425191
Well they wouldn't be immune to magic. Just in the wrong category for some. Like they'd still get hit by fireballs, but say trying to use seduction magic on them, would be like trying to use earth magic on the ocean.
>>
>>61425178
Nah its easier and cleaner to say:
-Gay couples get alped and turned bi
-Lesbian Couples turn bi
-Solo gay just alp
-Solo lesbian just starts thirsting for cock
>>
>>61425217
Again, that story already exists in a million forms, why remove the ideas for scenarios some anons in this very thread have had in exchange for... nothing that doesn't already exist?

>>61425191
Why do lesbians only become bisexual? Corruption needs buffs, not strong enough, remove all traces of faggotry.
>>
>>61425283
Why does corruption need buffs?
>>61425283
See >>61425242
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>>61425283
What's the point of conversion? They'll be left behind either way.
>>
>>61425242
It's not like the whole aspect of Corruption changing you wasn't already there, this is just an extension of that. This doesn't change the "moral balance" of anything, the Order's still the same society that kills rather than spares it's enemies, will wage holy crusade on societies unaccepting of it's religion (even if they'll allow it in small amounts within their borders, they're still a state religion), who subjected people to horrific and painful experiments with Corruption to give them permanent Scars in the hopes of making supersoldiers, and is made of very fallible human beings, the morality is still what it always was: "Do you want to be killed physically, or possibly (key word: possibly) be changed into something else? Is humanity in all it's faults important, or a world where there isn't conflict among humanity?"
>>
>>61425283
>Why do lesbians only become bisexual? Corruption needs buffs, not strong enough, remove all traces of faggotry.
because the demonlord is trying to make it appealing. In her mind the way to do that is to keep the relationship together just with the minor fact that you have a third wheel.
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>>61425383
Honestly, a gay couple becoming alped, and becoming a yuri couple seems really sweet.
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>>61425382
The Order also indirectly gave birth to the Red Order, whom they can't control. The world under the Order is still chaotic and violent, even if only due to outside elements; Corruption is legitimate, unending world peace, forever, with no hatred in it.
How anyone can actually unironically say Corruption isn't the best ending when it creates a literal utopia scenario is beyond me.
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>>61425382
Yeah, but he other issue is that it's meant to be an open question if Corruption is really changing who you are. Gay conversion therapy makes that a shut question.

Also, I was never really in favor of 'scars'. I don't think the Order would experiment with Corruption like that, and if you get transformed, it would mean you are a monster now. (though I don't mind if say someone who is on the brink of corruption has some cosmetic change to indicate they area about to flip).
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>>61425409
Yeah thats why i advocate it.
Although i am also down for them being given a choice on which one alps. Then just through corruption the guy develops a taste for puss.
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>>61425446
Well to be fair, Corruption is a bet that you will get Utopia. Monster society does seem like an upgrade right now, but it's an open question what the demon lord wins scenario will result in.
>>61425462
Nah. Yuri for the win.
>>
>>61425448
It's no more extreme than anything Corruption already does; if it already removes depression, to give one example, isn't that changing the entirety of a person? Like, it's been established for a while Corruption will cure mental illnesses and conditions as well as physical, so if it can cure your lifelong schizophrenia isn't that just as a dramatic a change as "curing" you of the gay?
>>
>>61425556
Being gay isn't a flaw, being disabled and mentally ill is.
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>>61425556
Well cause that comes to what you define as what needs 'curing'.

I'm sure most people with lost limbs or suffering depression would rather live without their conditions, even if there are a few caveats with it.

Most gay people however I think are a-ok with being gay. I mean there's a reason that gay-conversion-therapy brings with it the context of abuse.
>>
>>61425588
>>61425610
I'm not saying the changing of gays is moral, that's a "Do you want to fight for the right to be miserable?" discussion, I'm saying that you can't point to it as a sign of Corruption changing someone's personality so absolutely when it can already change things "built in" to someone like homosexuality is.
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>>61425678
Disabilities are when your body and mind work in a way that's not intended or healthy, a literal flaw that limits your ability to function. Being gay isn't like that.
>>
>>61425678
That's a mechanical thing though. Sure certain defects like depression or say being born without a limb are built into someone much like say sexuality, but that needn't mean that corruption effects everything that's built in equally, otherwise there really isn't an end to that list. Certain personality types are built into people- narcissism in some instances, would corruption 'cure' narcissism? What about something like hair-color? Would it 'cure' being blind?
>>
>>61425760
*blonde I mean.
>>
>>61425737
Yes.
But if you think changing someone because they're homosexual is crossing the line of interfering with their thoughts and outlooks too much, so should changing someone with clinical depression cross the line of interfering with their thoughts and outlooks too much, they are both a large part of the way that person is, and both (as far as we know) gotten from birth, outside the person's control.
>>
the end is near, new thread for whenever
>>61425797
>>61425797
>>61425797
>>
>>61425798
Completely different things. You can't fix a flaw that's not there.
>>
>>61425821
It's not the issue of whether it's a flaw though, it's the issue of whether it's changing a person for definite! And both those things are a really fuckin' big part of someone, so either you need to have Corruption not force change mental illnesses or force change gays, have it do both and accept that it changes people, or have it do both and say it's not a major change.
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>>61425883
How about not having it fix gays?
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>>61425905
Then it must not change mental illnesses either, if you want to stay consistent with the degree to which it changes people's mentality.

>>61425760
Corruption DOES change a personality to some extent, surely? The argument was always "But our personalities change over our lifetime anyways", it's just that the removal of a genetic mental illness, or change of a sexuality, isn't something that really changes over a lifetime, so both stick out as being changes that don't really occur naturally and thus can't be defended the same way.
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>>61425954
Being gay isn't an illness.
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>>61425989
I know, as I have stated, but you don't seem to get my point:
If Corruption can change an aspect of someone's mentality so deeply-ingrained in them when we consider it a negative and that doesn't count as changing them too much, why is it when it changes an equally deeply-ingrained thing we don't consider a negative (notably, we are not Demons) that it suddenly becomes overstepping the boundaries?
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>>61426045
Because its homophobic to make a system just to remove homosexuality.
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>>61426134
Yeah, Demons dislike gays. You can have that as a moral negative on their part, I would too.
But the fact that Demons don't like gays doesn't mean the scale of what Corruption is changing is any different.
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>>61426205
You're still just removing lgbt people from the setting.
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>>61426270
I'm not, I'm specifically including them, acknowledging their existence, and that Corruption wipes that facet of humanity away in the name of it's future and that that's pretty insidious.
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>>61426270
you say that like it's a bad thing
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>>61426045
Because 'being a demon' doesn't really mean anything. Like there is no canon version of the demon, so what if anything actually changes there is all up in the air.
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>>61427029
I mean we are the canon, we determine what it changes as a thread by stating what Corruption changes and what effects it has.




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