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Previous Thread: >>61325298

V5 is out

>WoD website
https://www.worldofdarkness.com/
>V5 Rundown
https://pastebin.com/bhRvfQdC
>Pre-orders for v5 are available now
https://www.modiphius.net/collections/vampire-the-masquerade
>MEGA (mostly Chronicles of Darkness)
https://mega.nz/#F!rFIDxRRK!IEzkLlroRoPwmDqtxKRMsw (we get it, it's broken)
>MEGA (mostly Old World of Darkness)
https://mega.nz/#F!KI00XCZA!sFV9L2S77bld5vzEmw5-vg (locked, needs new key)
https://mega.nz/#F!cSRAhRSb!_w_CXRj14pgt8C9nP6ursw
https://mega.nz/#!qF1RlARJ!GScPzfKZps-MWSLxnmXSaIkEGR_F7YmhKlmyqmw0JJc (gilded cage)
>Question
Who and what makes up your current coterie?
>>
>>61357460
The Giovanni are still death scholars.

>>61357508
Not really, otherwise the Brujah curse would be a lack of ability to give a shit, the Ventrue one would be having to live as a prole, the Toreador would force them to be antisocial.
But none of that really happens.
>>
I'm a gameless faggot, but I'd like to play a Tremere. Since I know they aren't well loved, I'd play a Malk or a Toreador Nossies and the Samedi are also cool; I guess you could call that the ideal party for me.
>>
>>61357582
>Who and what makes up your current coterie?
Tremere, Koldun, Gargle, Gregrel, Ravnos and Necromancer.
>>
>>61357582
AS a forever ST, working on the first V5 chronicle, we have:
* A modern Toreador, whose aesthetic is actually technology by way of social media. An Instagrammer and youtuber, she was Embraced as a way for a particular lineage of Toreador to handle social media outside of the Camarilla's mandate.
* A Ventrue who claims to be the deposed Tsarina Alexandra Feodorovna. She has been a member of the Camarilla since shortly after her Embrace, spending much time in Europe. She holds a wax sealed scroll case, sealed with Hardestadt's variant of the Ventrue symbol.
* A Russian vagabond and rumrunner Embraced in the 1920s as a Brujah; he is rough, tumble and takes no shits. He would as soon punch you as look at you. In the coterie, he represents the Anarchs and has been tasked by the Baron to keep an eye on the Camarilla.
* A potential Tremere or Malkavian, unknown at this time.
>>
>>61357922
That's not irony, that's antithesis. Go and stay go, brainlet.
>>
>>61358094
Listen you fucking mong, none of the clan curses are ironic.
>>
>>61358153
>nosferatu clan curse isn't ironic

I said go, retard.
>>
>>61358170
Absimilard was literally not in the fucking canon when they invented the nosferatu curse, and even then it's ironic for LITERALLY JUST HIM.

The nosferatu curse is only ironic when the nosferatu intentionally make it so by embracing models and shit, which is teh same as what I mentioned here >>61357922
So you can go eat all fhe fucking dicks, you thundercunt.
>>
Did caine ran out of ideas when cursing the arabs.
>>
>>61358239
"Turn blacker the older you get" seems like he just picked it out of his ass.

What's weird is that they all stopped turning into Mr Popo when they got the tremere curse.
>>
>>61358219
Your idea for a ventrue curse is idiotic and makes no sense. Your toreador idea is also stupid and overlaps with the malkavian one. The flaws their clans already have exemplify and amplify their ante's characteristics to the point of being ironic, same with the nosferatus. Your ideas are shit and dumb and merely "what if the rich guys were poor" level antithesis which completely misunderstands the point of their curses. Who gives a fuck if they fleshed out the curses retroactively by creating the antes and their stories after the fact. What matters is that they make sense now that they've done that, which I assume is what you're trying to do but all you're doing is fixing what ain't broke like the idiot you are.
>>
>>61358267
It's become canon that the Tremere curse was an example of cheesing the system to make a curse that doesn't effect your character. The Viziers and Sorcerers allowed the Tremere curse to stay to act as a buffer against the Warriors.
>>
>>61358267
Tremere only rid those ingrates of addiction.
>>
>>61358309
Those were not serious suggestions anon, you might be terminally retarded. I never suggested changing shit.

> The flaws their clans already have exemplify and amplify their ante's characteristics to the point of being ironic

Haqim being known for his blackness, and Tzimisce being known for staying in eastern Europe?
Oh no wait, that's dumb.

They're not ironic, and even if we declared it irony it would be irony through the opposite of the way the nossie weakness is, so your point is fucking moot anyway.
>>
>>61358343
Canon means shit now. Quietus and thaum are the same, and tremere are all retards (not that's a new thing, they've been retards all V20).
>>
>>61358381
>Tzimisce being known for staying in eastern Europe
Only old clan. Sabbat shitheads are everywhere now. Or were, we'll see what V5 brings.
>>
>>61358434
The point is that Tzimisce, the founder, has travelled a bunch and currently resides on another continent from where he was born, and at the same time his soul may be teleporting around the world.
>>
>>61358381
I only had umbrage with your specific shitty examples.
>>
>>61358473
You’ve got a point against that guy but I’ve been drinking all day and am being an asshole.
>>
Has the link to v5 pdf been posted yet?
>>
>>61358981
Yes. Check archive for ponies.
>>
>>61358473
>>61358434
to a certain extent, the Tzimisce clan weakness was due to the connection with Koldunism, it's possible Tzimisce himself and tzimisce who preceded the Old Clan in eastern europe had a different clan weakness if the canon was internally consistent and they needed to explain that
>>
>>61357582
toreador punk rocker, malkavian prostitute, brujah punk rocker (no relation)
>>
>>61359959
>Torrie and Witch fight over what punk is really about
>>
>>61359998
probably not. honestly, the toreador and malkavian have put a TON of effort into designing their characters, sires, connections, and exploring avenues of tragedy they'd like to explore and i'm doing them a disservice by boiling their concepts so far down.

all i've gotten out of the brujah thus far is "I'm really into nordic aesthetic right now and I wanna be tough", but I know she can do so much better so I'm practicing patience.
>>
>>61359031
For a second there I thought there was a sexy humanized ponies RPG...

Fuckers lead me astray.
>>
>>61357963
At least your group is willing to make their characters. Book hasn't come in yet and they don't want to use the damn PDF.
>>
>>61360123
They're excited. They really are jiving on the changes that are present in V5, which is awesome.
>>
>>61360019
I know both feels. I can make a great character, but I usually do better with taking a simple concept and vitalizing it through a few sessions. I'll probably even drift away from some of my original ideas as some things become more important in the course of a game than others.

Still sometimes hard to believe the friends that think I can make great characters. I really am usually pulling it out of my ass.
>>
Brainlet here, can someone explain Composure and why they change Perception to Resolve?
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>>61361325
Composure is how steady you hold yourself, how mentally steady and even you are.
Perception as an attribute was like Appearance, and really only had one, very narrow, use.

Now Perception is based on the type of perceptiveness you're trying to accomplish. So you might do Wits to notice in the moment, or Intelligence for pattern recognition and such other Attribute + Skill combos.
>>
>>61360044
There is, I'm fairly certain during the great pony wars of 2010 a few pony based systems for regular and ERPG use were made.
>>
>>61361325
Composure replaces anal circumference and resolve is how many dicks you can take before going into shock.
>>
>>61361458
Ponyfinder, which is Pathfinder with a 'four hooves and marks' skin, is probably the most prevalent.
>>
>>61361458
There's an official MLP RPG made by Hasbro. It's pretty fun.
>>
>>61361466
>>61361441
So your Appearance no longers matters in Social interactions? It's assume you're average looking unless you take a Merit/Flaw making you beautiful or ugly?
>>
>>61361689
You can describe yourself however you like, but you need the merit to make it so striking that you can leverage it or for it to bite you in the ass. The appearance-related Merits and Flaws give bonus dice/dice penalties to appropriate Social interactions where your appearance would matter.
>>
>>61361325
basically they realised that perception rolls where usualy Perception + empathy, perception + empathy + auspex or perception + investigation, which is really narrow for a core attribute, so now you usually use Wits + empathy/investigation in place of perception for the same effect.

The real question is why have composure AND resolve, and the answer is "because they had a pattern of forceful attributes on the top row, subtle/delicate on the second, and resisting on the bottom row so they needed to have two mental versions of stamina", and so as v20 and earlier games had the self-control/conscience/courage virtues they just removed those and culled them and rolled them up into attributes even though you only really ever roll willpower for what they do now.

Note that it's how the VtR/nWoD attributes have always been and it works fine there, though I share the "perception should be an attribute" feel.

>>61361754
>>61361689
Yeah, extremes of appearance are now merits/flaws which is more sensible than an attribute for just physical appearance that you only roll once when you meet someone new.
>>
Anyone got any pics of old man doctors? Theres like one in the imgur drop
>>
>>61362717
You in the right thread buddy? In case you are, this is the first result I got for a 'doctor vampire' search that didn't seem like a joke.
>>
>>61364544
Is his name Acula?
>>
>>61365150
OOOOOOOHHHHH
>>
Do universities teach night classes? If so what do they usually teach? I've got next to no experience with night classes and I want to make Donald Sutherland from animal house but instead of 'hey kids wanna smoke pot?' its 'hey kids wanna get bewitched into letting me drink your blood?'
>>
>>61365345
Not regularly.
But a) it's the world of darkness so why not and b) there's "evening classes" for working adults wanting to get additional education
>>
>>61365345
https://learn.org/articles/What_are_Night_Classes.html
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>>61365382
Yeah theres no way a vamp hasnt gotten the idea to form 'advanced nightly study groups' or some shit to act as a private herd. I can even have a ghoul teaching the day courses because I'm just so busy doing...stuff.
>>
>>61365345
Evening and remote courses still get you full degree. That's how I've got mine. You'd have to arrange to take those few exams you actually have to show up for in the evening, but that's not really a problem even for a powerless human so long you're on the good terms with your professor.
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>>61365345
Hey, wait a sec...
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>You know, neonate, with great power comes great responsibility. Hardestadt called it "Ventrue's Burden." Myself, I just call it as I see it: the responsibility of the master to discipline the servant.
>The Caitiff, the Anarchs, the Sabbat...It's our responsibility to civilize them. And if we can't? Then they shall greet the sunrise. Gehenna is near, neonate. We'll have every thinblood in this country dead or blood bound in 10 years, and may Caine blow me and my tower up this very night if I'm wrong. Caine bless the Camarilla
Guess it really was a different time, huh
>>
>>61366506
Fucking should have known they would have done the concept in a book. At least the details are different to what I had in mind
>>
>>61366759
Eat a dick Cammy fuck.
>>
>>61367215
>he doesnt recognize rami posting
>>
Hey, a while ago I downloaded all the Vampire graphic novels, but now I lost em to a crash. Anyone can hook a fa/tg/uy up? I remember the Ventrue one was pretty good.
>>
>>61367591
there were graphic novels?
>>
>>61366759

Incidently, and avoiding direct spoiling of Vampire Bloodlines (or ignore my post if you are squamish with potential spoilers), with the new V5 rules a 200 years old around 8th generation vampire diablerizing, for example, a 2700 years old 4th or 5th generation would, almost surely, end with LaCroix soul completely destroyed and the Methuselah having a new (if weaker) body.

They managed to make diablerie not pay AT ALL in this new version.
>>
>>61367591
>>61367899

I join the request. There were graphic novels? Gimme gimme gimme.
>>
>>61366759

The canonical ending of the 5 or so major ones is Lacroix being imprisoned by Mr. Greedy Tremere. However, he is not killed, and it's currently... well, lets read his own words:

>Quote: I used to be a big shot like you, kid. Now I’m shoveling shit in Palermo. Let that be a lesson to you: Never let them see you lose.
>>
>>61368243
>with the new V5 rules a 200 years old around 8th generation vampire diablerizing, for example, a 2700 years old 4th or 5th generation would, almost surely, end with LaCroix soul completely destroyed and the Methuselah having a new (if weaker) body.
Not really. You only ever get possessed if your humanity would drop to 0 according to those rules. And rolling BP+ Humanity against BP+ Resolve gives you a decent chance to atleast get some free XP from the diablerie as the lowering of generation happens regardless.
In general it's more risky but also has better rewards, even giving a mechanical incentive towards eating younger/same gen kindred.
Well if you disregard the humanity loss
Also the elders possessing would-be diablerists has always been around in terms of lore, just only codified in V20:Black Hand
>>
>>61368312
Did I miss something or where do you take that quote from?
>>
>>61368449

Clanbook Giovanni Revised, which in turn parodies a quote from the original Clanbook Giovanni.

It's not about LaCroix, but I thought it would be a funny end for him. No everything has to end in staking towards the sun, and I can see some extreme sadistic pleasure by the Tremere elders on punishing LaCroix with being the Master of the Elysium of some unimportant Belgian city.

>Eh, LaCroix, somebody made a mess feeding in the Elysium. Clean it.
>>
>>61368437
>diablerie
Absolutely abhorrent.
>>
>>61358239
yes, so he cursed them to be easier afflicted by curses so others would do the job for him
>>
>>61358239
When he arrived at Cappas, Settites and Assamites he was really at the bottom.
>well you look even paler than other vampires
>uh I guess light hurts you a bit more
>Fuck it you get blacker the older you get
>>
>>61369213

>Cappas

Caine probably said: Your clan is fucked up enough considering that you would trap half on them in Hell for a millenium just because they are not enough christian for you, and then you will get yourself killed by a bunch of morons so that the remainings of your clan can be exterminated.
Cappadocius was such a psycopath that no further curse was needed.
>>
>>61368884
Typicall brainwashed neonate
>>
>>61369213
Ironically enough erciyes fragments actually has a commentator point out the Cap curse as silly, and then someone else responds that for a clan that is so scholarly, being creepily pale and not having obfuscate as an inborn discipline would harm their efforts
>>
I seem to remember V5 saying about something about Tyler, the famous Brujah Rebel but I can't find anything on it looking through it today.
Does anyone remember this as well?
>>
>>61370213
Yes, there's a whole loresheet
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>>61370248
Where? I thought it was a loresheet as well but I've flipped through that section 4 times and found nothing.
>>
Actually I see the problem now.
I opened my digital copy. There are 10 loresheets missing from the print copy
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>>61370282
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>>61370303
>There are 10 loresheets missing from the print copy

... What? Can anyone else confirm this?
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>>61370303
>There are 10 loresheets missing from the print copy

The absolute state of white wolf
>>
>>61361941
Composure and Resolve are very different things.

You can have high Resolve and be able to commit to finishing a very difficult mental challenge, but with poor Composure, if you are interrupted you will have a violent outburst.

In reverse, high Composure means even when berated you do not flinch. But low Resolve means you are easily distracted when working on a challenging piece of work that requires a lot of time and effort.
>>
>>61370338
>>61370425
10 loresheets and the entire appendix. The physical corebook ends at page 398. The PDF goes on to 425.
Although the appendix is just useless common-sense shit like "Don't make your character a rapist if there's a rape victim at the table" or "use Charisma + persuasion to persuade someone"
But I would have fucking liked those loresheets.
>>
>>61358393
>not that's a new thing, they've been retards for all of Vampire: The Masquerade
>>
Has anybodies LGS received their shipment of books yet?
>>
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>>61370533
Holy shit dude.
The later ones are some of the better lore sheets too, in my opinion.

I haven't read through all of the Appendix, but yeah it looked like it was pretty useless at the end, dealing with stuff about social situations at the table that any non-autist would intuitively know. There is, however, guidelines for things like Oration in there-

>Oration

>From a general’s rousing speeches to a politician’s slick double-talk, the capacity to sway the masses creates and destroys empires.
When your character speaks to an audience, from a small board meeting to a large crowd, roll Charisma + Performance.

>If the character has time to prepare the oration beforehand, they may roll Intelligence + Insight to tailor the speech to the crowd. Success on this test reduces the subsequent oration Difficulty by 1; a critical reduces it by 2. Failure has no effect, while a total failure increases the oration Difficulty by 1 as the character inserts a gaffe into the speech.

Stuff like that is worth having in the core book. I'm not sure why this stuff is in the back, actually. This might have made sense to include at the end of the Skills section - like here's more examples of how you might USE these skills.

Still, what the absolute fuck. I hope there's at least a chance that they unfuck that before the slip-case bundles go out. Or they're smart enough to, like, include them in the next book with a big OOPS! sticker on it.

Goddam.
>>
>>61370731
To be fair, considering the kind of questions that come up on /tg/, a 'how to understand humans at your table' might be necessary.
>>
>>61371031
Vampire is not the game for people who do not understand human interaction.
>>
>>61370303
Now that's just stupid.
>>
>>61370303
Which Loresheets aren't in print?
Please tell me Rudi and Weeb Nossie are missing as well
>>
>>61371628
>weeb nossie
I missed this one, can you post it?
>>
>>61357582
Only two of the Nosferatu have visible deformites and neither of them look like an actual fucking Nosferatu. What in the absolute fuck? I'm not even gonna get into the literally wearing garbage thing.
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>>61371896
Obfuscate, I guess? Also shit taste.
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>>61371896
You mean in the fashion spread?
I like this photo-art though
>>
>>61370303
the fuck?
>>
>>61371896
I do kind of like the idea of the option to make yourself look passably like a normal hobo. It's really only going to keep you from getting detected on a street level basis - you won't even really be able to go to a bank or a restaurant without arousing suspicion, let alone run a company or go to a school. It's a positive, but a smaller one than most people expect and will probably fit a Nosferatu very well. Also helps get around the 'they have to be hidden all the time' shit.
>>
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>>61371107
Well shit, I guess I can never play now.
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>>61372217
looking like a hobo means that you're a shave, haircut, shower, and new suit away from being ceo tier in looks.
>>
>>61371628
>descendant of karl schrekt
>descendant of xaviar
>fiorenza savona
>Carmelita Neillson
>Ambrus Maropis
>low clan
>High Clan
>descendant of vasantasena
>descendant of zelios
>descendant of Tyler
>>
>>61372244
A "passable" Nosferatu to me means that in thick clothing and a hoodie you can pass as a regular ugly motherfucker.
But in general I normaly don't treat Nosferatu appearance as a masquerade breach, normal people will assume some strange illness or birth defect. You're just really fucking disgusting and will have a hard time interacting with most kine.
The absolutely supernatural looking Nossie should be more rare in my opinion.
>>
>>61372387
So Hardestadt is the only "descendant of" still in there? I would have expected them to all be removed. A shame as those were some of the best especially Vasantasena, Schrekt and Tyler
Low and High Clan suprised me most in being an actual thing in the pdf.
>>
>>61372438
I'm still confused as to why they're in the book at all.
>>
>>61372524

Oh, you don't want to purchase the DLC for 3.99 dollars? Too bad.
>>
>>61372387

Fiorenza Savona being the old dominatrix that appears in the Ventrue section, Carmelita Neillson being the arrogant bitch who talks to a Methuselah like it was a children in the Toreador section, and Ambrus being the Nosferatu who loves anime, manga, and playing with his buddies RPG games. Yes, Paradox Wolf says that /tg/ is a Nosferatu.
>>
Wasn't there a hunting method or something that was removed from the PDF but is in the physical release?
Someone should post that here.

The fact that they removed some stuff and added some more, tells me they were modifying the book after having sent it to the printer. They probably wrote most of the loresheets in the intervening time.
>>
>>61372390
While what you say is reasonable and supported by the book itself I've always felt like that having them not be genuinely frightening looking is kind of missing the point of playing a Nosferatu. The whole allure, at least from my perspective, is getting to be an actual monster. Reducing them to unfortunate and ugly but otherwise normal looking is just kind of boring. Not being able to seen by the wider public uncovered or un-obfuscated isn't too high a price for being the thing that goes bump in the night.
>>
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>>61372713

They seem to had an anal spasm after some article in which some random woman plays the game and finds that feeding blood, from a willing partner, was kinda rape.
And he only realized it the next day, like it was some kind of PTSD. Then she asked why there wasn't a trigger warning about this, and Wolfie said that they definitily will include all kinds of trigger warnings and ways to deal with evil fascists in their book.
They couldn't do it in time (books already printed) so they crafted the appendixes and put them in the PDF.

>Pic related is how vampires used to be. Notice how the centerpiece is a woman and nobody cares? Not anymore.
>>
>>61372711
>Yes, Paradox Wolf says that /tg/ is a Nosferatu.
Well at least they got one thing right.
>>
>>61365345
Language classes are commonly available later in the evening / into the night - intended for people going after work.
>>
>>61372952

/pol/ is perhaps a Malkavian in his fight against the perfidius, conspiratorial Tremere?
>>
>>61372244
I think it's more like Rorschach without his mask, when he's constantly toting around that 'end is near' sign - scruffy and dirty enough to be overlooked no matter where he goes, ugly but still human. Though in a Nossie's case it'll probably look like they've been suffering some disease for a few years that fucked up their face, or have been doing a ton of drugs. The kind of stuff that makes you want to not really go near them, but won't be a Masquerade breach.
>>
>>61372999

Rorschach would be an excellent Malkavian following the Path of Chivalry.
Damn, too bad Alan Moore decided that he is too old to work anymore.
>>
>>61372929
I get wanting to keep up with the cultural mood, but the idea of the opinions of random people swaying so much about the process...I don't like that. Sure, I'd probably feel differently if it was my opinions getting represented instead, but no game company should be swayed so much by individual opinion they're changing up different releases.
>>
>>61372952
Nossies spread equally across all boards, but presence on the /g/ (due nerd) and /pol/ (due troll) is the thickest.
>>61372989
/pol/ chock full of blood bros, tzimisce, nos and brujah fighting all of them.
>>
>>61373120
I'd say /tv/ has he most nossies infesting it whose entire purpose in unlife is to shitpost relentlessly and ruin any discussion of art for the tories.
>>
>>61372711>>61372952
/tg/ is Tremere/Tzimisce shitfest.
Each time we polled it was an even spread between Tremere and Tzimiscefags, with either outpacing all other clans together by significant margin. Sometimes more Tremere when powerwankery gets worse, sometimes more Tzimisce when faggotory gets worse.
>>
>>61373260
I don't think you understand the premise you're arguing in, my dude.
>>
>>61373336
Would nossies fag as either, really? One turns them into winged rocks, the other flescrafts them horribly for shits and giggles knowing they'd be back to default form overday.
>>
>>61373493
They would relentlessly shitpost posing as those clans to make them both look like shit, though.
>>
>>61373555
>make them both look like shit
You say that as they don't manage to do it without nos assistance.
>>
>>61373644
Should've known I was talking to a nos this whole time.
>>
PDF out?
>>
>>61373670
Trust me, boss.
>>61373733
Yep. Go back a few threads, there's no less than three links.
>>
>>61373752
thks,found it
>>
uhh,only 7 clans on the core rulebook?
>>
Specialisation in defenestration coupled with Potence to do it through the walls, is it viable in a thin-blood?
>>
>>61374451
Yes. Disciplines merged, mmo concept art re-used, nu-jeWW at their finest.
>>
>>61374545
the visual presentation on this books is half good,half laughable
>>
>>61374633
From what I've seen it's kinda...minimalist? Can honestly look pretty good, but doesn't give that much character. Looks rather bright for VtM. They didn't have to make it DARK AND EDGY, just maybe go for a bit of a reddish background, add some sigils around the edges.
>>
>>61374680
Darkier/moodier lighting more akin to film noir would hide a lot of the shittiness of the photography
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>>61374680
the art is good,when its not too corny,but most of the photoshops... the layout(is that the right name?)in general is quite decent,like you said,minimalistic but elegant
>>
>>61374451
Yes. Don't you enjoy this throwback to 1st and 2nd editions? The Sabbat is back there too until their book is out.
>>
I'm doing a sizable bit of homebrewing for a different system, but I'm porting Vampire Requiem/Masquerade (best of both worlds ideally) over. I don't want to pad out a magic skill list with each Discipline if I don't have to (saves people writing 10 skills down basically), but what would you guys suggest for thematically grouping the following Disciplines?
>Animalism, Auspex, Celerity, Dominate, Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Protean, Resilience and Vigor.
I've got a few Dementation and Obtenebration Disciplines mixed in amongst Dominate, Nightmare and Obfuscate for what it's worth. But right now I'm seeing;
Celerity, Protean, Resilience and Vigor as a group of Physical Disciplines.
Animalism, Dominate and Majesty for mind-altering/controlling Disciplines.
Auspex and Obfuscate feel like they belong together, but I can't place why beyond synergy in their uses and Nightmare feels like an oddball, though I suppose it could fit in with the mind-control group? Any thoughts?
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>>61374753
i dont enjoy having less for the sake of nostalgia
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>>61374680
Yeah, I find it quite okay-ish, some photos are alright (Ventrue comes to mind), but I would have preferred more art, and not the /fa/ one from the mmo.
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>>61374778
Obviously, I was sarcastic Anon.
I can get going back to "less content" to not shove too much for new players and develop more what's in the book, but Revised was perfectly fine with 13 Clans, unless I have nostalgia googles on.
>>
>>61374753
The first edition wasn't shit, anon. And those extra clans didn't exist back then.
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>>61370578
Not yet, but with the things about the books vs. the PDF coming out, I would bet on the 'emergency Gencon print run and Europoors print run' being finished out and a second print run being done that is the PDF. Now I'm glad that my physical books won't be here til November.
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>>61374842
yeah i got that,honestly this book looks like a bunch of well intetioned bad decisions put together
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>>61374451
Yes, because they wanted to create a baseline focus and move out from there.

>>61374508
>>
>>61374508
it's not defenestration if they go through the wall
TL note : fenestra means window
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>>61375086
A window is an opening in a wall or roof that allows the passage of light. They went through an opening in a wall that allows the passage of light. Does it really matter if that opening wasn't there the day before?
>>
>>61374758
looks good,throuh i thnk Obfuscate woulf fall better into the mind control Disciplines
>>
I think it's fine if they want to retool the Sabbat to hold off for a bit. The Sabbat was honestly kind of a confused mess at this point, occupying around nine hundred disparate niches with no real thread to connect it all.

What will annoy the shit out of me is if they don't use the book and time for a massive overhaul and making something cool.

The Tzimisce don't really need their abilities printed for their primary use, DMPCs and spooky fucking villains. Their mutated and misbegotten creations don't have rules either though, but you can whip something up fairly easily, so that should be fine. Lasombra are better suited for PCs and so them being left out is more of a problem, but it's less of a problem for me than the lack of Giovanni and Setites especially with the hyping of a retooling of the setites.
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>>61374758
Nightmare goes with majesty, they are literally contrasted multiple times in Requiem.
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>>61375554
From everything surrounding it's rather clear that we'll get Settites and Assamites in the Camarilla book.
Not sure about Giovanni. But from the fluff guide videos and how it's mentioned in the core it seems that it's now generally the "clan of death" and the Giovanni being a part/subfaction of that.
Probably with Samedi and Cappas being the other parts
>>
>>61375554

Everybody seems to have such a low opinion of the Tzimisce. Yes, they can fuck you up completely, but other than that, what? Are they more brutal and sadistic than a Toreador Antitribu, or more murderous than an Assamite, or more in general fucked up than a Setite?
Not to mention the Giovanni, who fuck (both literally, a lot, and figuratively, also a lot) their own family in life, undeath, and death.
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>>61375754
>Are they more brutal and sadistic than a Toreador Antitribu, or more murderous than an Assamite, or more in general fucked up than a Setite?
In a word, yes. Yes, yes, YES! And they're fiercely proud of it, too.
>>
>>61375648
Lasombra are better as PCs than Tzimisce, because the main thing that sets Tzimisce apart from other vampries is their ability to go into a dank basement and do some truly horrifying shit.

Which can be done as a player and everything (Heck, I bet a lot of people have had amazing campaigns as Tzimisce), but it seems to be built for NPC use.

Meanwhile the Lasombra abilitiés are more "Active", and their fluff is less of a brooding guy in his mansion and more of an active participant in the jyhad.

>>61375598
Maybe I'm just a bit of a downer, but that just seems like recreating the Giovanni, downplaying the interesting bits, and renaming it. Like they already had members of the Giovanni who were basically Cappadocians, and the Mortuari are just a straight better take on the Samedi than the Samedi themselves are IMO. Unless you do some sort of competing thing, or have them be set majorly apart, with competing interest and rivalries and stuff, with the Cappadocian vengeance finally paying off after 20 years of hype, but at that point they're not really one clan are they?

Either way the Samedi can fuck off IMO, because literally what would their shtick be here?
The death clan guys who can't do necromancy? The guys who look like corpses like the cappadocians but more? What's the angle?

I hope I'm wrong though, because having cool stuff is always better than not having cool stuff.
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>>61375828

Let's agree to fleshcraft disagreement into agreement.
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>>61375754
I LOVE the tzimisce, and the reason is that they are unrepentent about their horrifying nature.

If they were just "Kinda dickish" then I honestly wouldn't like them as much.
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>>61375879
Doesn't work on me, but thanks for offering.
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>>61375754

As a tzimiscefag, I can tell you why that is though you wouldn't believe me.

In a sliding scale of cruelty, ruthlessness and general depravity born of chaos by the beast, Tzimisce are unrivaled by anyone, period.

Then you need to look at it from faction point of view. The 'good' guys of the clan are technically most ruthless and cruel because they're surrounded and have had to been most clever to survive. Which includes Vlad the Impaler, who enslaved his sire and then went on to become what he became.

Sabbat shovelheads are bloodbound zealots and true believers in their blood pact. To point that lasombra can't stand them. They're the ones that helped Harbingers join sabbat. You have to understand level of insanity inviting those guys to join your team.

>Hey didn't you guys want to end the world, end up in another world, technically dead? Sure come on in.

They make cappadocius look sane. Their clan ante wants to turn all live into same live form like a planetary singular conscious bound by kindred blood through lens of his existence in some warped nightmare that makes kindred sytheziation possible.

Their next founding Methuselah's are all considered inhuman in one form or another, have slaughtered so many people that they're hunted by everyone else and that was when they were trying to do shit like the dreaming.

That's not mentioning the demon, freeing the demon or infecting part of the bloodline with demon influence. Technically twice with koldunism and vicissitude.

Then you have third faction that avoids that but has worlds greatest mass murderers as their team members.

If Tzimisce was given purest beast, then chaos given flesh would go by one name only, and you already know who they are.
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>>61375877
heres hoping on baali,samedi and the unicorns making a comeback and becoming he most interesting clans out there
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>>61375879

The Tzimisce can be such a positive force in the Sabbat. For example:

>A thin week guy says "I wanna be stronk!" and a fat guy nearby says "I wanna be thin"
>Mr Friendly Tzimisce takes 40 pounds of lard from the latter, turns it into muscle, and adds it to the former
>"Thanks Mr. Friendly Tzimisce!"

>A pretty girl exclaims, exhasperated "I wish guys would just stop staring at my boobs!"
>Mr. Friendly Tzimisce removes the boobs from the chest and uses the extra material to give his ghoul protective padding
>"That would be 50 dollars"
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>>61375904
This. Kind of dickish makes clans like the Tremere or the Ventrue less likeable than the guys who are unabashedly evil,and I don't know why.
>>
>playing Social Justice: The Triggered
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>>61376086
because they are honest about themselves i guess
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>>61376105
Go and stay go.

>>61376045
I would greatly enjoy if they retooled all the small clans into interesting shit.
The Baali have already been used in a bunch of interesting ways, even if their base concept is a bit "meh". (Although the insect/demon crossover is kind of cool, as evidenced by how many other things use it) but I'm always open for cool reinterpretations.

With Carna they've sorta removed the need for the Ahrimanes, but they could probably do something with the Lamia or the Daughters of Cacophony if they want to do more woman oriented stuff.

I also think they could do something with the Nagaraja, especially if they decide to make the Sabbat less of a confused organization. I'd enjoy those guys more as members of a "Clan of death" than the Samedi, although I suppose it makes less lore sense seeing as their origin is completely separate from the other necromancer clans.
>>
Playing a chronicle in Mexico City since it seems super open ended and full of possibilities. The coterie (Malkavian, Brujah and a Toreador) arrive to be part of the second wave of camarilla kindred after the sabbats abandonment. They are all hopefuls looking to get membership in the ivory tower. To their surprise Mexico City is almost flip side world with open lasombra defectors and even a tzimice vampire as the tentative "prince" of a city in flux. How could such shocking social changes have happened? Will they be able to navigate the anarch, camarilla and even scattered sabbat to carve out a place in the new Mexico?
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>>61376049
You cannot turn fat to muscle. The padding or fuel is the best use you could get out of it, and even then extra thick hardened skin is better. Also, graft is tricky, in the sense you're only grafting dead meat to inert flesh until you get Graft Life to Life. Better would be to work with what they already have. Simpler, too. And don't mess with breasts until you have at least a vague sense of what you're doing. Come to think of it, a thorough grounding in medicine is a must for any half-decent fleshcrafter.

Pro-tip: subdermal scutes is the way to go when doing padding. Also thicken the fuck out the bones, remove obvious flaws, and shield the vitals, all of them. Add concentrated vitae and earth pouches when doing yourself, best if you know how to make an odious chalice or two, put them inside of your body.
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>>61376370
>You can't turn fat into muscle

In real life, sure
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File: Sirius lolis1.webm (1.56 MB, 1280x720)
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Haven't played VtM in years. Is V5 good?
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>>61376380
In VtM, doofus. Not with Vicissitude at player-available rating at least. You move and twist stuff around, you can't make diamonds out of sulphur.
>>61376426
Meh, but combat is faster.
>>
I'm going to be running my first VtM game soon.

What are some common mistakes people make so I can avoid them and help my players avoid them?

Bonus question: is moot secretly a member of the Sabbat?
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>>61376451
>You can't make diamonds out of sulphur.

No, but lipocytes and myocytes are both derived from mesenchymal stem cells. You just need to reverse adipogensis and induce myogenesis.

This in impossible in nature, but the building blocks are still there.
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>>61376530
Moot joined google and is therefore a member of the technocracy.

>>61376426
Not enough people have really played it for there to be a good consensus, but I personally think it looks okay. There are some odd lore choices and I think some of the mechanics may need a bit of tweaking, but that's not really out of the ordinary for a WoD game.
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>>61376530
Getting obsessed with rules and metatrivia is the worst one. Just ignore or houserule the stuff that obstructs you. Making too many (or too few if you're bad on the improv) characters. Aside from that, miscommunication? Make sure the players know what sort of chronicle you're going to run, what is allowed and what isn't.
>>
Post the character sheet, please.
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>>61376582
>reverse adipogensis and induce myogenesis
Which isn't something Vicissitude 1-3 can do. You move around base components, alter their quantity, shape and build from them, you can't make one base component into another.
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>>61376649
Yo.
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>>61376785
Thank you very much.
Now, how do I fill it out?
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>>61376864
It's not a fillable sheet, it's taken from the book.

The Mr. Gone sheet is fillable and available here http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/VtM/Vampire_5thEdition_2-Page_Interactive.pdf
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>>61376864
The short of it
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>>61376987
What I don't quite understand is the Predator-type discipline bonus.
Does that also apply to out of clan disciplines outside of Blood Sorcery?
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>>61377032
It has to be able to add out of clan (Except blood sorcery), because otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
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>>61377104
yeah probably.
It would kind of massively limit the useful predator types for Clans
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>>61376987
Oomf. Not what I'm used to, even though it thoroughly explains it, but I'll persevere. Thank you.
>>
Random note:

The v5 book thinks hospitals are small buildings. I cannot get past that.
They are Swedes, they have to have visited at least the Karolinska hospital, which is like twice the size of the main Stockholm university campus, and its not even the biggest hospital in Sweden.

They are comparing it to four city blocks here, how big do they think city blocks are?
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>>61377137
The longer breakdown on how to build skills I actually like a lot.
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>>61370533
Anyone remember that Gehenna story with the Ventrue who could only feed off rape victims getting low on blood in a crisis situation and having to Dominate a passer-by into raping a woman so he could feed off her? Why is White Wolf so bizarrely schizophrenic with their tone and who they want/assume their target audience to be?
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>>61377230
Do you mean in the Domain section?
For that you have to remember that a 2dot chasse for the domain should be somewhere around 2000 "static" kine to feed from. Where the number in a hospital has to obviously be higher to not push it in to dilapidation due to either patients getting worse or personal not being able to perform.
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>>61377243
The problem is that they maintained the per cost xp cost, so they fucked generalists over again. (Even if jack of all trades get a couple more dots, they're still screwed on the XP math)

I swear to christ it's such an easy fix, and one they already fixed and then went back to unfix.
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>>61377243
I still don't understand the XP part.
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>>61377259
Perhaps that character wasn't supposed to be used to play with a rape victim?

Perhaps they were deliberately trying to horrify you with a hamfisted and deviant-art tier story instead of idolizing a player who pretends to be a rapist?
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>>61377306
The increase in capability in dots isn't linear though.
So having the cost stay the same doesn't fit.
>>61377317
Where's the problem with that?
>>
I don't have an LGS myself, but I noticed Amazon has added a listing for V5, and it looks like eventually it's going to be on there with prime eligible shipping for any you other prime fags
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>>61377259
wtf,is that real?
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>>61377323
His point is not that the character is bad you fucking numpty, his point is that the attitude towards such themes is fucking incosistent.
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>>61377332
The increase is capabilities for skill dots could literally not be more fucking linear mechanically, and in terms of "Fluff" or whatever that never lined up with actual use anyway.

The only case where a case could be made that the benefit isn't strictly linear is disciplines, and that's a small sacrifice for internal consistency.
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>>61377358
>>61377259
Everybody loves the Ventrue Signature Character, Jan Pieterzoon
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>>61377358
Let me quote from the white wolf wiki


>Jan suffers from a extreme case of the Ventrue Clan's weakness in that he can only feed from rape victims. After being ambushed in Washington D.C. by Sabbat, his entire herd is wiped out and though he is saved by Theo Bell, he has to use his dominate powers to cause a rape and then again to erase the memory of it in the victim in order to feed after the loss of his herd.
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>>61377403
pure gold
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>>61377403
turns out he was killed in V5
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>>61377403
The game is about playing a monster though.
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>>61377403
On a somewhat related note, wasn't there a ventrue that went from having to feed off of enslaved people, to eventually somehow changing it up after slavery went from being a global phenomenon to only existing at all in backwoods countries?
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>>61377259

Yes, but that was when White Wolf existed. It doesn't exist anymore, it's a subsidiary of Paradox Interactive which in turn is a subsidiary of Pentex.
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>>61377457
America still has slavery, you'd just need to break into a prison, or you'd have to live off sex trafficking.

But you'd be doing very well in large swathes of the world, especially certain parts of the middle east, Asia and Africa.
There's more slaves now than during the height of the triangle trade.
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>>61377480
The slave feeding is the less interesting part, and more the fact that he was able to reorient the focus of his clan curse. Which is kind of a necessary bit of fluff to add - imagine how many Ventrue have lost particular feeding pool due to the changes of history, like if there was one that only fed on pagans.
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>>61377529
>like if there was one that only fed on pagans.
Imagine that elder Ventrue having to hang around neo-pagans these days
He could probably include atheists under pagans if it comes from the christian viewpoint so it's not that bad
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>>61377457
But that contradicts their own lore and rules! And what a missed opportunity for a story-hook, that the mastermind behind an international slaving ring isn't a Setite or Giovanni but a Ventrue
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>>61377378
Also, if it's based on the fluff difference in skill level, then the differenc between medicine 2 and 3 dots is the equivalent of 6 years of school, while the difference between 3 and 4 dots is NOTHING. Literally nothing.
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>>61377457

They explained somewhere, in one of the Ventrue bits years ago, that if some source of food becomes unavaliable (say, if you can only feed from WWI veterans, you'll have it easy in Europe until the 1980s, at which point those people would just be dead or really old), trough an act "of extreme willpower" or some such nonse a Ventrue can find a new favourite blood source (never explained with rules, just "it's very difficult and you can't do it, neonate").

I always hated the ventrue curse, for being so fucking random ("I can only feed from pretty girls", "I can only feed from black people with an IQ 105 or higher"), and quite immersion breaking. It would have a lot more sense something like they implemented in Bloodlines but a bit tweaked (you cannot feed from animals, blood bags, people you suspect to be sick, people who are deformed, people who clearly belong to a very low social class, etc). Instead, we have such delirious ideas as that if a Ventrue is given a bottle of blood from "a virgin who loves unicorns", but his choice of blood is actually "a virgin who loves ponies", he has to roll immediately to resist frenzy and automatically pukes the blood.
How in the fuck could a neonate without auspex or Thaumaturgy that the blood he's receiving is not his blood of choice is beyond logic; as it is that, regardless, a Ventrue can dry up the most putrefact Samedi ever because they can drink any kind of vampiric blood...
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>>61377609
The bloodline weakness is pretty good for blue bloods, and works better for a "Refined palette" anyway, I agree.
But even the requiem flaws are better than the original masquerade flaw at representing their "lordly nature", and they weren't even intended to do so.
>>
What’s the lore explanation for how Ventrue get ‘assigned’ their safe type of blood? I’d always assumed it had something to do with the vampire’s first feeding, or something about their character, but the mental image of a Ventrue sire and neonate frantically rushing through hundreds of kine trying to find one that won’t kill the new cainite is rather amusing
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>>61377695
It's described in lore of the clan as when they got hunting they taste this one particular type of blood at some point during the hunt, and then nothign else will ever taste as good.

Which sorta implies until they find that type they can just drink whatever, so if its something so rare you'll never encounter it you'll never have a weakness.
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>>61377695

"At some point soon after being embraced they develop a very specific taste... subconsciously... who may have absolutely nothing to with their life experience or their Embrace... or totally have to do... because they are the most refined vampires and thus can, say, only drink from mexican sanitation workers, or only drink from blonde metheads".
I do agree, however, that every Ventrue elder should have an armoire full of hundreds of vials, each one with tags like "green eyed catholic", "unshaved lumberjack", "demented swede", etc.
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>>61377363
Exactly: on the one hand you have an important character to whom rape is vital to his continued unlife, and on the other earnest warnings about how rape is a serious matter that shouldn’t be mentioned lightly. It’s a little odd
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>>61376026
>Hey didn't you guys want to end the world, end up in another world, technically dead? Sure come on in.

Not even Cappadocius wanted to end the world, he wanted to eat God. What's this bullshit about ending the world that you're talking about? Caps aren't Baali. I thought the Tzimisce were supposed to be smart. Go flesh craft a bigger brain for yourself, retard.
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>>61377960
Harbingers of skulls, look them up,
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>>61377800
Rapebloobloo is a recent thing, kiddo. Old, true WW never gave a fuck about offending some SJW's tender feels.
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>>61377986
I have and they don't want to end the world, never did.
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>>61378006
At this point it's spent as much time as nWoD and under Onyx Path than it has as "Old, true WW".
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>>61378060

I remember when the freaked the fuck out about certain unpleasantness in 2001 and promptly declared that ABSOLUTELY NO VAMPIRES WERE INVOLVED, certainly not the obvious Assamites.
They even said that such even simply didn't happen in the WoD. I mean, I understand, deniel was very strong those years. Even then, 1994-2004 White Wolf published dozens of books about Vampire and hundreds about all other World of Darkness critters, in total. Then went with Requiem.
What has OPP published? Actualizations of older books. And Paradox? ONE book.
And a really cringy text-based video game. As in really, really pathetic ultra-left mentally deranged crap.
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>>61378060
>Onyx Path
Never published anything of value concerning oWoD gamelines. Everything was made by WW, OPP was just milking a dead cow as it were.
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>>61377529
The revised clanbook talks about it.
There was a Ventrue elder who fed on Byzantines, when they died out/ people stopped identifying as such he went into torpor, and when he wake up it had changed to Greeks
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>>61377609
>How in the fuck could a neonate without auspex or Thaumaturgy that the blood he's receiving is not his blood of choice is beyond logic
They've got a special ability to scent out their own special brand
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>>61378123
>ABSOLUTELY NO VAMPIRES WERE INVOLVED
They kinda have a point, even Assamites wouldn't have been THAT sloppy. They're vampire muslims, not retarded muslims.
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>>61378149
No one ever identified as Byzantines, the word didn't enter into any sort of use until 200 years after the fall of Constantinople.

I know that's a nitpick of the highest order.
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>>61376312
>A Tzimice prince
God I so want to have some of those fiend fucks show up in the Camarilla. They always cracked me up and having one try to limit itself after years of the Sabbat would be hilarious
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>>61378189

But how could they explain that such groups, that had to be under constant watch by the assamites (after all, in one of their clanbooks they literally recruit some of them), who operate from their home turf, yet they have nothing to do?
Or the fact that NYC was supposed to be a Sabbat bastion, thus giving ample oportunities for that to be a vampiric event. However, as I said, I understand that, at the moment, they didn't want to say anything about it because it would have been an editorial suicide.

However, in the new book the Gehenna War is basically the Arab Spring and subsequent... 7 years already? Of generalized war. Even in one of the images the show the twin towers crashing.

Why? One was an american company in the 2000s, the other is a swedish company in the 2010s. With all that those things imply.
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>>61378206
Not really, if you're making a point about language changing over time, you'd better have your facts straight.

Rome will rise again
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>>61377749
>Malkavian has blood vials with tags like "green eyed catholic", "unshaved lumberjack", "demented swede"
>Ventrue is impressed
>It turns out they're all from the same person
>The tags are all true anyway
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>>61378295

A demented green-eyed swede who is a catholic, works as a lumberjack and is unkempt with his personal appearence.
I salute to you, well played.
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>>61378261
>I'm sorry sire, but a bodyguard with five hands IS indeed, a masquerade breach
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>>61378322

>What do you mean I can't make my throne from still screaming Tremere heads? Do they have to be House Carna heads? You could have told me before!
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>>61378365
>But what if we painted the bones to look like cement? then we could say the building is thematic
>I'm sure we could create a similar excuse for the sinew
>>
Lol, the difference between "specialized" and "Jack of all trades" is over 50 xp, The difference in XP is almost enough to straight buy the jack of all trade pack.

They have to be doing it deliberately.
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>>61378386
Chroniclefag here. In the story he's going to be driven around by a crow of attendants like a celebrity who lost their grounding with the real world. Think Justin Bieber or an absent minded Kardashian.
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>Pyramid exploded

>Most prominent subgroup is now a neopagan sex cult

>Rituals now cost XP to learn

>Advancing in thaumaturgy requires unearthing caches of hidden lore.

>Can now only form blood bonds through weird sex rituals

>Thaumaturgy is still a crap discipline

What the hell have the Tremere done?
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>>61378847
shitpost in this thread.
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>>61378895
I think you got that the other way around. All the shitposts about Tremere are about how much the Tremere suck.
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>>61378910
Don't pretend to be the victim you magic missile casting motherfucker.
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>>61378847
The Tremere have been fucking up for a while now. Beckett's diary is full of them being cunts or idiots. I laughed when their big bad Assi ritual cucked out.
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>>61377337
It'll be some retailerselling through amazon it looks like.
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>>61377695
The Revised Clanbook posits thati t's based on their first feeding.
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>>61378847
The rituals not only cost XP now, they're also significantly less powerful.

Plus thaumaturgy doesn't just still suck, it sucks even worse. Because not only does artifically thickening their blood now have an upper limit of 1 (2 with a crit success) extra blood potency, blood potency does less than generations did previously, theft of vitae only works on mortals, and cauldron of blood requires you to succeed 2 rolls now and does absolutely pathethic amounts of damage.

I mean the best possible scenario is that blood of potence allows you to use rouse the blood with 1 extra dot. Congratulations, it's fucking nothing.

And the rituals either require you to have a dude strapped down, are wards (Which should really just be one ritual instead of like 8) requires you to risk your humanity, are the creation of shit that other dudes would be better at using than yourself, are just expansions on stuff you should already be capable of doing with the discipline, or is an instant murder ability that comes out of nowhere.

Tremere are strict NPC tier now. Get a tremere contact and never ever look at the clan again.
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>>61378847
>>Rituals now cost XP to learn
>>Advancing in thaumaturgy requires unearthing caches of hidden lore.
These are good things though. Nobody likes powergamers
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>>61380426
No one who "powergames" is going to play a tremere, because blood sorcery fucking blows.

If they wanted to limit powergaming, they should take a look at dominate and presence, which at higher levels are straight "I win" buttons.
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>>61377609
I kind of like how as a curse it means that you don't always have to play a ventrue as a blue-blooded noble, or at least can tailor it more to their individual perceptions of themselves as vampires and of humans. Maybe a Ventrue who had once been involved in early workers strikes could only feed on union members, or a former noble who had lost his station because of a hot-heated courtesan could only feed on prostitutes. It's not as simple as 'oh I only like the best blood,' and it's still frustrating without ruining any character who wants to run street level games.
>>
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>>61380334
I just wanted to be a vampire that buried himself in his books and trying to ignore vampire politics to make good use of his immortality for knowledge, but aided the coterie so that he could wriggle away from being a mere lackey to another and become master of his unlife. I wouldn't have even minded an elder 'just as planned' twist where it turns out working with the other vampires just made him a better servant instead of his own vamp.

Why are they making everything cost humanity now? I don't understand. I get that vampires are evil and do evil things, but...they're vampires! You shouldn't punish people who want to play as vampires for doing what vampires would do! This doesn't even really help the personal horror side of things, since you'll run out of humanity so fast it'll barely get a chance to register.
>>
>>61380725
Where do you see that "everything costs humanity?" Looks to me like the only things that can stain you are violating chronicle tenants, blood bonding and touhstone damage. And even then at the end of a scene you roll to clear ALL stains. I like the way it reads, it seems like humanity is going to be more relevant in this edition while avoiding "roll humanity because you did property damage"
>>
>>61380996
There's a bunch of other stuff that incurs stains.
Like the ritual that allows you to read in foreign languages incurs a stain because it requires you to tie a guy down and cut out his tongue and eye.
>>
>>61381031
That still makes sense to me. That means that the more blood magic things you do the more you risk losing humanity, which makes sense. And even then, say you're at 5 humanity and get a stain from doing a ritual. You have 4 dice, which is very likely to get a success and clear all stains at the end of the session. It seems to me like you'll reach a point where you can do a few staining things a session and still get away with it.
>>
>>61381154
The thing is, tying blood sorcery abilities to stains too is just another random kick in the teeth to Tremere, who are already getting shat on.
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>>61380996
I want to be mad about the idea of losing humanity being something you can just bounce back from with a roll, when it's supposed to be at least something like a morality system, but...it is an interesting mechanic and a way to make losing humanity feel more like an acceptable risk, not something you should avoid entirely, and actually brings to home the inhumanity of being a vampire without damning you forever for doing what you would normally do in game.

I think I need to go lie down.
>>
Any news about that mega link with all the pdf?
>>
>>61381265
V20 portraying them as utter idiots and nerfing them while buffing all their enemies wasn't enough of a hint? They're the most hated by OPP/nuWW devs clan, kek. You can almost feel butthurt seeping from the pages. I would've been happier if they, all clan of them and all flaky kinds of blood sorceries blew up with Tzimisce/Saulot, whoever the fuck was in Vienna.
>>61380725
Go for necromancers (they're broken as fuck in V20 to boot) or trujah. With Tremere you'll have to but the whole new boat of political bullshit and nothing but bullshit while being shat on and called powerwanker despite being the weakest in all senses member of the coterie. Or don't play shit editions.
>>
>>61375385
I could see that, but I'm a bit wary about players getting half the roster of spells from just one skill (mind control), though I suppose that's a problem on my end.
>>61375591
I never did get that, it seemed really self indulgent 'wow you're so scary they pop a weird boner'.
>>
I have grown to feel kinship with the True Brujah. Fuck this Earth and all the insufferable bastards in it.
>>
>>61382651
Elois are cool... until you find out now far they're willing to go to revenge themselves on the main clan.
>>
>>61381475
>>61380996
Stains don't clear/resolve at the end of a scene, they do at the end of a session.
But remember that Stains are mitigated by 1 or more if you incure them in service of your convictions
>>
>>61383108
Trust me. The political reflection of the sentiment is... not far off.
>>
>Predator types

>Basically being alleyway rapist
>-1 Humanity

Makes sense

>Eating only from vampires
>-1 humanity

A little wobbly, but fair enough.

>Eating only from the willing
>+1 humanity

Fair enough

>Eating only from animals
>+1 humanity

Fair enough

>Eating from blood bags
>No humanity change

Que?

>Basically being Jim Jones
>No humanity change

Que?!
>>
Fellow neckbeards, did we get an official release date on Cam and Anarch sourcebooks from WW?
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>>61383877
I don't think so. It's still 'in the fall' on the pre-order site, with the slipcase pre-orders saying they'll likely ship in November.
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>>61383771
Well with blood bags you're literally stealing limited medical resources used to keep humans alive.
>>
>>61384078
The US has a large blood surplus. It is one of teh few countries that has an overabundance of bagged blood.
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>>61384078
I'd say that one (Bagger) more-or-less makes sense in that it doesn't impact your humanity. You're getting what you need to survive and trying not to hurt anyone in the process, like a homeless person stealing food to survive. I believe that predator type also gives you Iron Gut, so you can eat animal-blood/old blood more easily.

Ideally you could find your way into a (legal-ish) relationship with a hospital (perhaps one with a board-of-directors that include fellow vampires) that has the blood you and your Bagger friends need. This would allow you to 'pay' for the blood you need to live, and the funds collected would go back to the institution that originally procured it, ideally giving them the ability to keep collecting blood for non-vampire related care.

This could be different if there was an extreme blood-shortage in your city though (perhaps after a string of unexplained murders/assaults), or if you are operating out of a small town that might not have a blood surplus or the ability to get more very quickly in case of an emergency (although from what I understand blood/medical couriers are pretty fast at getting things where they need to be).
>>
>>61384187
The alternative to blood bagging is taking it from humans or animals, and just like the consensualist, the bagger has in all likelihood gotten his blood from someone who gave it voluntarily.

The only difference is that the baggers way of hunting has a significantly lower chance of hurting another human being, and that he didn't personally ask for permission.
>>
>>61384187
Iron Gullet is needed to even get any nourishment from factorated blood or old blood.
Basically without it you can't reliably feed from bloodbags. Animal blood doesn't factor in.
>I'd say that one (Bagger) more-or-less makes sense in that it doesn't impact your humanity.
Sure but in most cases it won't be as "clean" as to provide an additional point of humanity.
>>
So, if you're defending yourself from someone trying to kill you and you kill by draining them, is it still a Humanity stain?
>>
As a Tremere player whose character devoted his life to clan damage control and repairing relationships between his clan and the Assamites, Gangrel and Nosferatu, the new lore changes make me sad.
>>
>>61384239
But with absolute certainity the Bagger aquired it illegaly as blood bags aren't exactly something sold top-shelf.
So he either bought it under the table or stole it.
>>61384280
Depends on your Convictions and Chronicle Tenets.
>>
>>61384296
So what if he stole it or bought it illegally?
Several places have laws against cannibalism and animal cruelty, that doesn't make the farmer or consensualist a wash.
>>
>>61384334
I'm just arguing that it's reasonable that the Bagger predator-type doesn't give you a bonus point of humanity to start with.
Also in terms of balance because Consensualist gets the prey-exlusion flaw for non-consenting vessels and Farmers the "vegan" flaw
prey-exlusion meaning they get stains if they feed on the excluded while vegans have to pay 2 willpower to feed on human blood. With Consensualists also having a dark secret
Meanwhile Baggers get a great 3 dot merit and one enemy
>>
>>61381550
WW's lawyers know about this place, so there's no point in making any more megas.
>>
>>61383877
They have said on Facebook those ship late October/early November along with the slipcase stuff.
>>
>>61384371
It makes complete sense from a "Balance" point of view, the bagger is already pretty good. Their specialties are very widely
applicable, and iron gullet is great. (Blood sorcery may suck as said in this thread, but that's another matter).

But I mean people here usually scoff at the concept of "Balance".
>>
>>61384422
Fuck off shill.
The shadowrun general's old archive was literally run by one of their writers, who was told to take it down by one of their "editors", and it was still immediately recreated.

The WoD archives have been taken down before, and always remade.
It's just that people are lazy faggots, or don't have all the books.
>>
>>61384438
>>61383991
Awww. Maybe the PDFs will be out a bit ahead of time, eh?
>>
>>61384702
I mean that's for sure but I'd still expect October or November
>>
>>61384292

You should have thought about that 1000 years ago, before stealing blood from a child of the Eldest. See? This is what happens, and now your most powerful elder is a ninth-wave sex addicted feminist.
>>
>>61382651
I like them too. But they're delusional and temporis is weird
>>
>>61380497
>which at higher levels are straight "I win" buttons.
That's pretty much all disciplines. Elder games are powereanking by default, no Mather the clan
>>
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>>61384484
>SHILL SHILL SHILL!

Yup, it's your Friendly Neighborhood WW Shill here to ruin your fucking fun! Soon our Book Burning Ninjas will come to your homes and burn your V20 books and wipe your HDs of all your illegal PDF materials!
>>
>>61384805
There's no post 5 dot versions of anything in v5, and blood cauldron is only an "I win" button against mortals, and even then you have to succeed on 2 rolls for it to have an effect.

Meanwhile those who have mastered Majesty can't be attacked, and if they really build for it a dominate/presence focused guy they can reach a situation where he can walk into a room and tell everyone to stab each other in the face and they will.
>>
Eh, I have a crazy idea... what if we ignore the fucktarded ideas that every vampire has a "hunting type" they never stray away from, and let them be adaptable creatures, given that they are apex predators and they haven't been so for thousands of years by thinking "damn, I need some blood to heal my flamethrower-charred legs... but I don't see any cows! Don't have enough willpower to drink from an human so I guess I will crawl to my haven and rot".

Crazy, right?
>>
>>61384811
Acting glib about being a fucking dumbass does not take away from you being a fucking dumbass.
>>
>>61357582
>V5 is out
Do we have a pdf somewhere?
>>
>>61384842
Literally nowhere does it say that you have to hunt literally one way you absolute fucking dumbass.

And it's not like "Willpower" is a fucking token you keep in your pocket. It's a dude who thinks its morally fucked up to eat from people, sticking by his fucking conviction that it's not fucking cool to eat people.
>>
>>61384856
It's been posted about 9 times at this point.
>>
>>61384879
>Sexy Humanized Ponies
It better have vampire stuff inside.
>>
>>61384860

>It's a fucking vampire that refuses to drink blood, his only biological (necrological?) imperative, even when his life may depend on it

Tell me more about this Kingdom of Heaven in which creatures such as this saint can exist.
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>>61384915
It does.

Trust me.
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>>61384939

It's that one of the new photo-art of the Nosferatu from V5?

They kinda captures the essence correctly.
>>
>>61384842
Its not your only hunting type, just your preferred one. All predators have a preferred style, but they'll adapt if they have to. Just talk to the GM about it.
>>
>>61384915

It's actually V5, but sometimes doesn't work with Adobe. There's also an non-pony, Adobe-capable PDF that's been shared, although I'm away and cannot share it until Monday.
>>
>>61384939
>>61384950
*sigh* I know what i 'll be doing for the next hour or so.
>begins reading
>>
>>61384919
Have you ever heard of the seed vault?
Did you know that there were people who starved to death right next to damn near tons of fresh rice, legumes and nuts?

Also of course, feeding restrictions don't apply during hunger frenzy, you dullard, so if you were truly desperate you can indeed disregard your fucking moral code. Your weird objection is a ridiculous edge case (No willpower at all + Dying + No animals at all + Absolutely no blood in your system but not near hunger frenzy) and it still literally doesn't even apply.
>>
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>>61384842
Sounds like somebody didn't bother with the fucktarded idea that they should read that section of the book before commenting on it.
>>
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>>61384996
This is 4chan. We don't READ ENTIRE SECTIONS, what blasphemy do you speak?
>>
>>61384985

Perhaps I'm old an cynical enough not to believe that a superhuman predator with the physicality of beasts and mind control capabilities would cry over spilled blood.
Perhaps you are right, dude. What the fuck do I know, after all?
>>
>>61385069
>What the fuck do I know know, after all?

Not even the rules you're talking about.
>>
>>61385069
You know nothing.
>>
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>>61385017
It's /tg/, there is a presumed notion that the people on this board are at least literate enough to read a game's book and would have some inclination to understand what they are reading. In addition to that, there link to the free PDF copy has been posted several times.

It's like that old adage about leading a horse to water - we can't make the horse drink, but we can still comment on the pathetic scene of a horse dying of dehydration at the foot of a pool of perfectly drinkable water.
>>
>>61385079

That's true.

>>61385076

That's not.
>>
anythng on antideluvians on V5?
>>
>>61385462
Nope.

Not even about Tremere and Saulot.
>>
>>61385112
>anything but bookcases with right angles

Why, though?
>>
>>61384939
I'll do that. You sound trustworthy.
>>
>>61384728
I've seen very different dates on the web, starting with August (not fucking likely) through September and October all the way till November and even December. December is still 2018, right?
>>
>>61385627
You're an idiot.

If you go to OFFICIAL sources rather than morons regurgitating shit without checking what they see, you'd find...

August for Core
Late October/Early November for Cam and Anarch, Dice, Screens, Journal
Spring 2019 for Sabbat
Whenever The Fuck OPP Decides To Publish for Chicago.
>>
>>61385780
You are so angry... do you need a hug?
>>
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>>61385868
Probably couldn't hurt.
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>>61385780
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>>61384842
>every vampire has a "hunting type" they never stray away from
Read the fucking book
>given that they are apex predators
Laughing Inquisitors
>Don't have enough willpower to drink from an human so I guess I will crawl to my haven and rot".
If you already have that much aggravated willpower damage than you have way bigger problems.
Or just fall to a hunger frenzy, the beast doesn't give a fuck
>>
>>61385069
>Perhaps I'm old an cynical enough not to believe that a superhuman predator with the physicality of beasts and mind control capabilities would cry over spilled blood.
I'll take a guess and say that those also wouldn't have the predator type of Farmer or Consensualist.
>>
The predator types are stupid because it all hinges on morals and not practicality. What if I go farmer because my gangrel hangs out innawoods most of the time and rarely encounters humans when he's on the hunt, but if he does he'll hunt that hiker down no problem and drain him dry?
>>
>>61386141
Predator Types don't stop you from feeding on other things. Predator Types are the method you prefer/are best at and provide you with bonuses, such as an appropriate skill specialty, some Backgrounds and a Discipline dot that you've developed ot facilitate that. Nothing in the rules is stopping you from beating someone down and drinking them dry if you're a Scene Queen for example.
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>>61385484
>>61385462
There's ~1 paragraph on every ante in the intro lore section.
1/2
>>
>>61386141
Then pick a different one than farmer, or houserule it a bit different, or create a custom one (All suggestions made in the book)
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>>61386165
Farmer forces you to spend willpower to feed on humans. That's a pretty big hurdle, bro, especially if you picked it for practicality's sake instead of for moral reasons.
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>>61386172
2/2
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>>61386172
I assumed he meant new developments.
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>>61386172
>[toreador] is a hermaphrodite now

Yeah fuck this book.
>>
>>61386206
It's supposed to be taken from a mythical telling. The toreador antediluvian can still be a dude, a chick, neither, both, or a fucking horse for all we know.
>>
>>61386177
Or just don't use it and use the old character creation rules that were less constrictive and gave you more freedom.
>>
>>61386179
Right, Farmer gives you the flaw. That's specific to that one. Predator Types as a whole don't stop you from feeding other ways; that one has a specific flaw built into it (which I had forgotten, so thanks for reminding me).
>>
>>61386206
Are you actually retarded or do you not realise that it's just unclear whether male or female so they include both "versions"
>>61386141
>What if I go farmer because my gangrel hangs out innawoods most of the time and rarely encounters humans when he's on the hunt, but if he does he'll hunt that hiker down no problem and drain him dry?
Then don't take Farmer or adjust it accordingly.
Because as it is written it's for those that can't stomach feeding on kine.
>>
>>61386276
They say tits AND cock, not either/or
>>
>>61386179
The only thing you really need to feed from animals is the Animalism 3 power that treats your BP as 2 lower in regards to feeding on animals
>>
>>61386258
The old character creation process had its own problems. I like the idea of characer creation through explaining what made your character the way they are, it's more story-tell-y, and I genuinely think people will get better characters if they follow the long character creation process.

That being said, if you prefer the old method, it's not like anyone is stopping you from using it.
>>
>>61386284
They also say "his cock, her tits".
The "political correct" way for a single person would be using "they" as pronoun
>>
>>61386179
Well, reflavor it. Change the flaw to something else. Done.
>>
>>61386276
>Are you actually retarded or do you not realise that it's just unclear whether male or female so they include both "versions"

No, they're creating a myth story around "The Diva" as a love and beauty deity, and it's not like there weren't such hermaphrotic deities i real myth. Like the actual hermaphroditus, Aphroditos, Dionysus and some version of Aphrodite.

It's a weird change to introduce now if they'd made it canon that this person is a bi-gendered individual, but it's clearly an extract from a telling by someone. Which can be accurate or inaccurate.
>>
>>61386292
>>61386319
I'm just not going to use the new system at all. If I have to retool it for it to work, then I'm not buying nor using it. At least previous editions worked on their own from the beginning mechanically and didn't require extra work to get them off the ground.
>>
>>61386341
It works anon, you're just being kind of weird about a very specific thing.
>>
>>61386341
If you are not gonna use it, why keep bitching about it? You have nothing better to do?
>>
>>61386341
Aren't you already retooling the entire game if you set it as a lone Gangrel in the wilderness?
>>
>>61386341
It works just fine anon. It just doesn't work for whatever preconceived disappoint you have because THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS.
>>
>>61386383
This. Why do these people who hate it continue to engage and repeat how much they hate X, Y or Z ad nauseum. It adds nothing to the discussion. It's like Camilla swooping in and shouting every 3rd post 'I HATE DARKNESS WOD SUPERHEROES WITH FANGS AND ANIMU!!!!'
>>
Wait... wait-wait-wait... WAIT! Are there people who actually like V5? I thought you are not welcome in this thread is you are not massively assblasted by it.
>>
>>61386402
>You're not allowed to not like certain aspects of things. It's not productive in this thread that is basically dead without it. :(
>>
>>61386419
Oh fuck off.
>>
>>61386430
It's fine to dislike things. It's stupid to continue to shriek like a fucking retard about and get yourself riled up over and over by it.
>>
>>61386361
>>61386383
>>61386384
>>61386385
So sorry that I don't like the new edition and am constantly reminded of how bad it is by you dickheads constantly circle jerking it and being unwilling to admit any aspect is badly implemented or simply not good. It's perfect and I'm going to go check my privilege, I hope you xers can forgive me.
>>
>>61386443
You also need a hug?
>>
>>61386462
>I'm going to go check my privilege
As long as you stay where you are going...
>>
>>61386469
No, I need you to stop making shitty posts.

>>61386462
No one here is circlejerking. I've made like 9 posts complaining about the tremere nerfs, but your specific complaint is bad.
>>
>>61386462
There are things i don't like about it (I'm not sold on Touchstones' implementation, I wish that the combat examples were as clearly defined as what Karim posted on Facebook, I don't like that armor just changes Agg to Superficial damage). But I'm not sitting over here constantly screaming I DON'T LIKE THESE COUPLE OF ASPECTS. I'm focusing on what I do like, and doing what I always do with games: change the things I don't like.

Be constructive with your dislike, not just a whiny entitled manchild sitting in the corner screaming about it over and over. And if you don't like any of it, just write it off and talk about something else.
>>
>>61386537
>if you don't like it, buy it and make it better yourself

No, I will not. and insulting me by calling me a whiny entitled manchild is a pretty petty and immature way to try and change my mind. Ironic, really. It's not my job to fix the core book and make it playable, that's WW's. This is how these things work, anon. I pay for something that I want. I don't pay for something I don't want to morph it into something I kind of want. That's just silly.
>>
>>61386586
No one is trying to change your mind. I, for one, just want you to stop whining.
>>
>>61386586
It's playable as is, even without those fixes. These things are things that are not to my liking. Other people are okay with them as is, judging by discussion elsewhere..I'm not trying to change your mind, I just want you to stop working yourself into a lather over it, because it's stupid to get that worked up over this.

So yes, you are being a whiny entitled manchild, who comes across as someone who wanted V5 to be 'V20 with updated lore' and that was never, never in the cards based on WW's initial statements and desires. WW owes you nothing, considering all your books are probably pirated from the threads and they haven't gotten a red cent from you even for the things you actually DO like.
>>
>>61386618
The thread is for discussing vampire. If you want to make your own V5 thead then knock yourself out but those pf us that don’t like the system are allowed to voice our opinions here.
>>
>>61386660
>>61386618
>all these strawmen
>>
>>61386666
>discussing
Discussing != bitching.
>>
>>61386698
Are you off your pills? You are seeing things.
>>
>>61386618
If all you do is perpetually tell a dude to shut up, are you really contributing more than the dude who is actually giving his opinion on shit?

I mean even if what he's saying is abject nonsense?

Anyway:

I'm sorta digging the new take on thin-bloods, as these sort of pseudo-vampires, splitting them off from "Caitiff", clanless rable, definitely brings some interesting flavour to the whole thing.

There's a bit too much focus on the fucking aspect of being thin blooded and/or high humanity, but that seems like it's going to be a big thing for this edition.
>>
>>61386703
You can call it what you want, but you're still the ones complaining about there being opinions different than yours.
>>
>>61381596
Why haven't they been cut if they're hated so much? Perfect opportunity to do so with Vienna getting blown up.
>>
Why dd they fuck up v5 like CofD vamp and make it so you can only play one game type and the rules don't support shit all? It was much better when it supported multiple play types.
>>
>>61386762
That's a weird thing to say about CofD.
>>
>>61386773
Literally every CofD game had multiple types of play gutted from them in favor of more tightly supporting a single type.
>>
>>61386787
This is just plain wrong, I don't know what you base that on.
>>
>>61386729
Point taken. Maybe you are right.

As for thin-bloods. I like the Alchemy.
>>
>>61386795
The removal of large swaths of theme and mechanics in exchange for a different game type..it's like you've never compared the differences.
>>
>>61386808
You're gonna have to fucking tell me what you're basing this on at some point.
>>
>>61386798
I like thin blood alchemy too, I think they could do to just mash it together with the occult skil desu, because as it stands its kind of a massive XP sink. But I'm all about it thematically. I also like the addition of modern variants of classical formula, like mixing out herbs for nootropics and stuff.
>>
>>61386853
Probably BLOOBLOOBLOO MUH SABBAT and BLOOBLOOBLOO MUH COMBAT.
>>
>>61386762
I kinda dig the way the focused on their chosen style. You can always expand on what you have in the core.

Granted, this might discourage some people. But how big of a corebook did you want? 430 pages is already enough to blugeon someone to death. And adding something without upping the page count means throwing things out. And those things tend to be fluff. I, for one, do not want another V20.

I expect things to expand with Cam and Anarch books. But I will be content if they do not.
>>
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>>61385112
I'll be up front and say I don't usually understand rule shit at all. When friends talk about the combination of rules and feats and whatever that make their character super interesting, my eyes tend to glaze over. Even as a kid I'd rather read D&D's monster manual than the main rulebooks since it was basically a bunch of fluff about monsters if you skipped over the rules. It actually does help to go on /tg/ and see people summarize the rules and their impact - I can't connect all the rules together in my head, you know? I have no idea what's broken or what's underpowered since it's hard to remember all the other rules for context.

It's not that I'm outright stupid, it's just hard to care about what is basically math and logic problems until I am in game and they're relevant through a mix of practice and actually applying to my character. I will learn the system once I start playing. And even then I'm more of a story-focused guy.
>>
>>61386882
Which are still options. There are VII options and humanity variants in the books.
>>
>>61384838
The Tremere have dominate too.

A weak thaumaturgy is better for everyone. If someone wants to play a mage, there always Mage out there
>>
>>61386963
Counter point: A weak thaumaturgy is good for no one, and this is is just pointless nerfing of something that wasn't even that good to begin with.
>>
>>61386055
>Laughing Inquisitors
Let's be honest here, the SI was a shitty idea.
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>>61386882
Eh. It's more what good is a tool box with less tools
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>>61387025
Which tools are missing?
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>>61386983
It was probably all nerfed because Swedracula is a LARP fag and hates the Tremere. All the other changes we're to cater to his personal game style. It's safe to assume that is too.
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>>61387038
Yes, because dialing things back to make it easier for new players is CERTAINLY catering to the LARP crowd.

Go back to SomethingAwful.
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So, I watched Interview with a Vampire Liked it. and I wonder about the part where Lesat drank from a corpse and got weak is there the same type of weakness in VTM?
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>>61386306
They is wrong though
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>>61387056
It is though. Denying that he's written this to cater to certain groups is disingenuous.
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>>61387056
How is nerfing the fuck out of the tremere, making like a billion references to weird sex magic, buffing social disciplines, making a more involved character creation process and bolting on a bunch of new rules and systems "Dialing thigns back to make it easier for new players"

Are you retarded anon?

>>61387069
Sadly not. Corpse blood just doesn't do anything.
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>>61386319
Why not play requiem then?
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>>61387092
But it's not. Non-Euro Vampire LARPers love their greebley 'stack all the bonuses' mechanics, and the mechanics as presented aren't conducive to LARP at all.
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>>61387119
>This particular character option is substandard for my purposes
>Pick a different character option, or houserule it a ltitle different

>Why not play a completely different game at that point?

I'm sorry anon, the stupidity is terminal.
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>>61386340
>but it's clearly an extract from a telling by someone.
Not really. Unrealiable narrator is not very used in v5 the way it was in v20 or earlier editions
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>>61387122
Why are you all so autstic you don't see the theme and fluff changes perfectly cater to LARP fags and hammer in that the shitty rule set wouldn't work in one.
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>>61386402
Feedback. We have a small hope that the authors would make the game better
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>>61387145
How the fuck are you deducing that from one book, that has clear cases of personal viewpoints being expressed?
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>>61386762
What do the rules not support?
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>>61387169
>thinking that because a bunch of entitled autistic manchildren are screaming about changes that they'll write another new corebook undoing all their changes.
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>>61387185
>People don't have my opinion
>They must be autistic manchildren

When will this meme die, and you fuck off back to tumblr?
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>>61387012
It was the best idea and you have shit taste
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>>61387185
It worked with the SJWs and it can work with us.
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>>61387206
It was a terrible idea, and your tastes are urine.
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>>61387087
Isn't that what Vykos wants to be called?
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>>61387115
>Corpse blood just doesn't do anything.
Unless you have Iron Gullet
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>>61387069
In v5, there is an ability called-

>Iron Gullet: You can feed from cold blood, rancid blood, and fractionated plasma. None of these provide Resonances. Ventrue may not take this Merit.

For most vampires (without this ability) this wouldn't necessarily make them weak, it would just be nasty and wouldn't nourish them.

There is also Prey Exclusion-

>Flaw: (•) Prey Exclusion. You refuse to hunt a certain class of prey: drug users, women, children, policemen, innocents, a given minority or ethnic group, etc. If you feed on such prey, you gain Stains COREBOOK CHARACTERS 182 as though you had violated a chronicle Tenet. Witnessing other Kindred feeding on the object of your exclusion without interfering might also give Stains, at the Storyteller’s discretion. Ventrue with this Flaw gain an additional restriction, making their choice of vessels extremely narrow.

So maybe Lestat gained Stains from drinking from the dead and was deeply upset about it, maybe he's a Ventrue on top of that (unlikely, he's definitely a Toreador), or he had some specific kind of aversion to it, but yeah, in general this wouldn't weaker a vampire the way it did in the movie.
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>>61387220
For vykos there's a genuine question of whether that's due to the fact that it's a gender neutral term, or if they just want to get close to royal third person.
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>>61387250
Considering it's the alternative to Beckett's prior use of "it" I'd guess the first
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>>61386983
Thaum was OP as fuck. Have you ever seen how many paths there were? A tremere was insanely more versatile than any other clan. Rituals that allowed a cainite to lower his generation, paths that had the same powers as disciplines. All in only one "discipline"
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Ok am I missing something or what exactly is the problem with predator types allowing for more customisation?
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>>61387185
Stop calling anyone that disagree without you of a "entitle manchildren".
Nobody cares about your whining. Grow up kid.

> about changes that they'll write another new corebook undoing all their changes.
That's pretty much what they did in relation to older versions.
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>>61387206
It was terrible. Do you really think that if a bunch of rich and powerfull kine discovered that vampires were real they would just allow a new Inquisition to happen instead of seeking immortality for themselves?
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>>61387220
Vykos is weird. It calls itself as "we" too, in the plural.
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>>61387312
To be fair, this was the only change I liked in the entire book
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>>61387295
We've literally been over this dozens of time, and your side on this always ends up folding.

Thaumaturgy is straight weaker than comparable disciplines (The paths themselves being kind of crap), the difference being made up by rituals. Rituals that they also nerfed, and then put an XP cost on.
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>>61387185
Your disdain for your playerbase will be the reason v5 crashes and burns.
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>>61357950
Burn it with fire
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>>61387439
Rituals not costing XP was always stupid.
>>61387356
>Do you really think that if a bunch of rich and powerfull kine discovered that vampires were real they would just allow a new Inquisition to happen instead of seeking immortality for themselves?
See
>But you won’t find the Kindred mentioned anywhere on the news or even in top-secret Congressional briefings. This decentralized Inquisition of intelligence operators uses fake mission briefs, bogus subcommittees, and false flag operations to black out this secret war even from their colleagues and superiors. Anyone in the agency – or the governments that employ them – could be a blood-slave, so no, Congress doesn’t know, and briefings happen very sporadically and on a strict need-to-know basis. Despite this crippling paranoia, a few high-ranking officials in several countries compare notes and share intelligence globally.
Not to mention that a significant part of the SI is the recanonised Society of Leopold
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>>61387383
I can't actually think of any major change that I dislike.
My biggest problem is probably the rather limited amount of flaws and advantages at this point, especially with the required taking of them in character generation.
A small problem would be that the proposed XP gain per session is very low but I don't remember ever following those numbers given in the core
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>>61387439
>Thaumaturgy is straight weaker than comparable disciplines
>>61387092
>> about changes that they'll write another new corebook undoing all their changes.

>and then put an XP cost on.
Why the fuck should a ritual NOT cost xp?
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>>61387543
>this constant thinking in a WW employee
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>>61387716
The bigger question is why they didn't cost XP in V20 or before
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>>61387567
>Rituals not costing XP was always stupid.

No, it was part of the discipline so tacking on an extra XP cost didn't make much sense as anything but an XP sink.

>>61387716
Because... learning rituals is explicitly what the discipline is about?

Like you're asking them to pay the same XP as everyone else for a worse result, then pay extra XP to get the benefit that supposedly makes up for it, and that cost is now as high as skill dots.
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>>61387439
>Thaumaturgy is straight weaker than comparable disciplines
Of course. It's still a discipline that has other discipline powers(albeit weaker).
>and then put an XP cost on.
Why shouldn't it cost XP?
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>>61387567
That's exactly why the SI is fucking stupid. If you don't have the support of the high schelon, including the mobilisation of the entire army and industrial power, beating a vampire should be impossible.
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>>61387795
>Of course. It's still a discipline that has other discipline powers(albeit weaker).

If you're thinking of paths then I need to remind you that you needed to purchase that as a separate, but cheaper, discipline on top of having to get the useless path of blood (Now the only path, woo!)
If you're thinking of rituals, then they're now paying rather a lot of XP for the privilege, so there's no reason for it to be shittier. They're already paying for the rituals as a separate thing now.

>Why shouldn't it cost XP?

Why should it? It's explicitly the thing that makes up for blood sorcery being the weakest discipline? Why put a tax on not being worse than everyone else?
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Do you guys think that it should have cost XP to learn or create new sabbat ritae in v20? Do you think it should be that way in v5 if they add that in at all?
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>>61387772
>Because... learning rituals is explicitly what the discipline is about?
What?
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>>61387858
Ritae is a skill in v20, and making your own and having a lot is a function of higher ranks in the skill. Otherwise learning and acquiring them works exactly the same as rituals for thaumaturgy.
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>>61387865
What what?
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>>61387874
It’s a background, not a skill in v20 and learning more after creation would cost no XP according to v20 raw.
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>>61387893
Well apart from the background/skill mixup, then, as I said "Learning and acquiring them works exactly the same as rituals for thaumaturgy".
Like pointing out it's a background rather than a skill is just kind of nitpicky, it still functons as I said.
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>>61387888
I don't really understand your point
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>>61387934
Literally all of the fluff, and the way it's built mechanically, is that rituals are the main focus of the practitioners of thaumaturgy.
They have books and libraries filled with arcane tomes detailing rituals, they work on new rituals, their grand displays of power are rituals.

When you see a Tremere, or an Assamite sorcerer, or a metaplot character (Or a setite, but I don't remember any examples of a setite actually using blood magic, even though they have it), depicting using thaumaturgy, they are very rarely shown making peoples blood boil, but rather preparing alchemical reagents, or putting down blood glyphs, or doing shit like that.

Rituals are a BIG part of thaumaturgy. It's a big part of the mechanics, and it's a big part of the lore.
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>>61388010
That's why it should cost xp
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>>61388010
But do you not see the problem of every dot in a discipline also giving access to half a dozen additional abilities with no cost for the player characters besides "downtime study"?
And it's not like they cost a ton now
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>>61388083
They do cost a lot, they cost the associated level * 3, which is the same as a skill dot. That's not nothing, and since the rituals are pretty hyperspecific in use, you're gonna want a couple.

And the thing is, I agree, people shouldn't have access to every single ritual. Which is of course why the old editions had "Your ST needs to okay every single ritual acquisition" and this edition even has the extra caveat that you need to get your hand on hidden arcane lore. You have to earn it during play, then pay XP, and then you get to be on the same level as everyone who just drank a dude and got their discipline like 2 sessions ago and didn't spend nearly as much XP on it.

>>61388071
That's a poor argument, if the main point of the thing is the rituals, then the rituals should not be taxed extra on top of forcing you to buy a mandatory discipline.

On top of which you also need to heavily invest into the occult skill (Blood sorcery doesn't help you do rituals, just the shitty discipline). It is a quite frankly ridiculous XP sink.
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>>61388171
Let me reiterate that by the way, you have to heavil invest into two separate abilities (A skill and a discipline) that both represent your knowledge of arcane lore and magic, then on top of that invest in knowing how to use magic.

It's 3 things on top of each other for rituals that they also made shittier than previous editions Except for some they've thrown in that can break a campaign in half or not do shit because your ST sees it in time
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>>61387843
>bloobloobloo muh vampire invincibility

Yeah, no. It's been pretty explicit in the book that it's not just 'rogue agents,' it's a new division of various government agencies in a cooperative movement, with additional info given by the fucking Vatican and the Society of St. Leopold.
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>>61387919
I’m asking if it should have been an XP cost to learn more rituals during game play. It’s bot nitpicking when you were wrong about it being a skill because backgrounds are not able to be increased with XP during gameplay.
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>>61388206
Don’t you also need high willpower as well?
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>>61388242
Oh, you're referring to actually gaining more dots, rather than learning individual ritae?

Well, uh yeah, no, that can't cost XP since you can't buy more dots. Although I've always played with the houserule that people can buy backgrounds with XP if they can justify it as a learning process.
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>>61388353
And in v5? Should they cost XP like new thaum rituals do? Are they even useful enough to justify them costing XP?
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>>61388225
Tell me, how would they beat a elder using dominate? The cainite can just speak some words and the kine will obey
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>tfw getting confused with this new XP cost in cc sysyem
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>>61386462

I actually just accepted (5 stages of grief I suppose) that this particular game in ruined by trisexual cuckeminists. It's not a big deal, V20 or even Dark Ages exists, there are plenty of books, and there is really no need to listen to this degenerate writers crap or give them money buying their books.
Some things change, anon. Vampire used to be great, now the Enemy has bought it and ruined it. Time to move on.
I'll keep calling bullshit eveytime someone is sucking the sagging tits/cock of V5, of course. This is 4chan afterl all.
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>>61388401
Most of them don't really have a mechanical effect, so if yoú were forced to pay XP on top of that, that would kind of blow. That'd be like forcing you to pay XP on top of your etiquette skill for knowing the unwritten rules for individual groupings, except even more so because this is literally just a sabbat thing.
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>>61388413
Attacking in the day. Blowing up the building in a 'counter terror' raid. blowing up the building and writing it off as a 'terror tragedy'. Vatican hunters with True Faith. 30 guys who open fire on a vampire before he can actually say a word to them.
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>>61388275
Less important in v5 than v20 (Although in v20 you could just straight dump the occult skill, it was all a willpower roll)

But since blood sorcery as a discipline doesn't do shit unless you get a bunch of succeses, you're going to want to spend some willpower, which is fine as you DO need high resolve since all the discipline powers key off strength or resolve.
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>>61388531
So yeah you actually need 4 things on top of each other for rituals to work.
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>>61388531
My bad, I just rechecked, and acually rituals are an occult roll in v20 too.

Although since all tremere have straight 10 willpower, they should be using willpower all day every day for the rituals anywa.
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>>61388478
How do you do this without your superiors ever noticing it?
>Attacking in the day.
What about cainites with ghouls? Ghouls that are stronger than any human soldier. Ghouls that can have better training than any human.
>30 guys who open fire on a vampire before he can actually say a word to them.
Almost impossible. Even harder if the cainite has celerity, obfuscate or fortitute
>Vatican hunters with True Faith
True Faith is very rare
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New Ritual
>>61388577
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>>61388587

Would you just shut up and purchase our games? Also check the new Crusader Kings 2 DLC.
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So with the new rules do Gangrel have the comfiest existence now?

>Can survive of animals thanks to animalism.
>Always have a loyal doggo by your side.
>Can sleep anywhere there's dirt, fuck up things with claws, turn into mist polymorph thanks to Protean
>The curse is not permanent anymore so all you need to do is be a bit more careful after you frenzy.
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>>61388587
Not to mention that these guys have to factor in the possibility that their target is not a blankbody and they fucked up. How many times has the SI killed some random eccentric dude? How would the public respond to the government straight up exploding people's houses because "terrorism"? You'd think this would cause riots in the streets at the very fucking least, if not a full-on vampire-influenced coup.
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>>61388587
You seem to have missed the part where this isn't rogue agents. It's active military, not some Mission Impossible/Jack Reacher 'agent acting against the organization's wishes' thing.
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>>61388669
And yet their superiors never noticed that a bunch of armyfags are hunting vampires and making shitty excuses("this medieval castle is being used by ISIS terrorists, let's blow it") that no one with a brain would believe
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>>61388782
... how is 'active government agency' meaning to you that 'their superiors don't know what they're doing'. The book mentions the new international taskforce FIRSTLIGHT. It's full sanctioned and handled within the government spin machine to the public, and the government is in on it, even if they don't know all the particulars of vampirism. Case in point, the SchreckNET information getting them to attack Vienna because 'it's vampire HQ'.
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>>61388587
>Ghouls that are stronger than any human soldier. Ghouls that can have better training than any human.
The bonus strength of ghouls does literally not matter in terms of military engagement. And why would they have better training?
Also the amount of Elders that have a high number of military trained ghouls around them at all times is rather small.
>Almost impossible. Even harder if the cainite has celerity, obfuscate or fortitute
They aren't raiding during the fucking night.
Also with obfuscate it's far more likely that the kindred will simply walk away from the potential raid




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