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This game isn't actually dead edition

Last thread: >>61892241
>Thread FAQ
http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
http://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp

>HH Books, Novels and Rulebooks galore
http://pastebin.com/k9uvqsub (embed)
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2Ffz1OuHK%2Fcrusade-imperialis-army-lists.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg

>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

>Primarch Popularity Poll
http://www.strawpoll.me/11458318

>NEW Mega Folder
https://mega.nz/#F!gaBiVTKI!HTOuNx5zzNxHqT-ny-AU3A

>HH rulebook
(epub)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmr4e1yy7fnyxgy/HH_Rule_Book.epub
(pdf)
http://www34.zippyshare.com/v/3a2haZF4/file.html

>8th ED conversion:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c3k0CgT0mK7usziANPHjYKL30doamz3R
>>
What is stopping you from playing games /hhg/?

For me personally it's the distance from an active community, which is a 1.5 hour drive, but I am building a board so I can play with the few local friends that play 30k
>>
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>>61949214
The community both online and off, grognard who are too stubborn/Stockholm syndromed/elitist to realize how actually poor the game is and worst of all thinks the game getting smaller is better due to gatekeeping.

Reminds me a lot of D&D 3.5 v 4ed fags.
>>
>>61949214
>What is stopping you from playing games /hhg/?
Time mostly, between DnD (goddamn I can't wait till this campaign is over I am so sick of fantasy bullshit) and normal people having normal schedules getting together these big games is difficult. Still, I play Zone Mortalis at least every other weak.
>>
I got like four or five chapters into Crimson King, got bored, and stopped. Is it worth persisting with?
>>
>>61949214
Lack of time. And having only 12 Custodes in my army because I'm fucking slow at painting.
>>
>>61949304
>Horus Heresy is dying because people don't like my true scale primaris marines for my loyalist iron warriors
Yeah no
>>
>>61949304
>it's the grognards who are keeping the game from becoming popular

So why is AoS so popular? WHFB fags shit one it constantly and it just keeps getting releases and players.
>>
>>61951214
I thought it was more alpha legion players that went in for primaris "conversions" (i.e. painted metallic blue).
>>
>>61951420
He's just fanny flustered that people like templates and facings and don't want to play his 8th edition conversion.
>>
>>61951606
Oh yeah nearly forgot about that faggot from last thread.
>>
Does anyone have campaign characters that stood out? Bonus points if it is someone else's.

One of the players has a Night Lords praetor, who he uses for every campaign, and he will not ever fucking die. He's removed as a casualty, sure, but he never rolls the "fatality" result on the casualty chart. In fact he is removed as a casualty in nearly every battle, he's like a fuckup that the Chaos gods enjoy watching suffer to the point where they won't let him die. Just some of the ways he has gone down (but not died) in games against me

>Torn apart by an Archmagos' power fists
>Run over by a Triaros
>Blown up by a plasma blastgun
>Shot apart by a unit of myrmidons

Player was a good sport about it, retired the model and built a new version covered in cybernetics, gave him the epithet "the deathless."
>>
For you Saturnine fags. Have to admit it looks really nice. Guy managed to avoid a goofy look.
>>
>>61952705
not too bad, but the helmet sucks
>>
>>61952898
All you'd need to do is swap it out for a regular indomitus helmet and the whole thing would be perfect
Also speaking of indomitus armor, why is it limited to one Iron Hands exclusive unit in 30K? I don't think there's any lore reason for it to be so rare
>>
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Have FW said when the new blood angel models are coming out?
please don't be next year
>>
>>61952705

> Make a nice conversion.
> Put it on a tiny base.

Unless he's done that on purpose to replicate the old look of them on 25mm that was a silly thing to do.

Anyway, I think if they bring them back they should make them loyalist oblitorators. Give them a 2+/4+ with a heavy weapon on their back and make them a unit of 3 to 6.
>>
>>61953430
>Have FW said when the new blood angel models are coming out?
FW usually does not give release dates
if they do they are wrong anyway
>>
How much effort do you put into making your army's list "fluffy"?
By that I mean straightforward things like attempting to include flamers for Salamanders and basically no dreads for WS.

>>61953430
Probably before year's end.
FW, like GW, doesn't preview models that far in advance. Or atleast they said they won't anymore.
>>
>>61952705
Lioks nice, too bad I don’t play with 3rd party unofficial models and only recasts
>>
>>61954324
>By that I mean straightforward things like attempting to include flamers for Salamanders and basically no dreads for WS.
I mean I have a fluffy list, not sure how to quantify the effort into making it fluffy, but a lot less than making the fluffy list useful.
>>
>>61953331
>Also speaking of indomitus armor, why is it limited to one Iron Hands exclusive unit in 30K?
It isn't. It's just strictly inferior to Tartaros so there's no reason to use it.
>>
>>61953331
Gorgons are Gorgon pattern. Ferrus helped develop TDA so that's why they likely get a form of it
>>
>>61949214
The cycle or having no one to play with feeding into my warning desire to paint a gorillion dudes because no one is interested
>>
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>>61949214
I have tried several times to get into the game, and each time I'm struck by how tedious it is to actually play. I have no doubt that playing more games would allow me to play faster and reduce the tedium, but the last games I played were against a Knight army and a flyer-heavy army and I learned nothing and wasted one of the few Saturdays I get off work.

Love the fluff, love the hobby, very interested in playing ZM games at some point but desu I'm balls-deep in my last semester of study and I can't justify wasting another Saturday rolling dice.

I have so many things that can take on Knights and flyers now though, so that feels good.
>>
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>>61950710
>Crimson King, got bored
It's not going in many people's top ten, that's for sure. It's probably important if you want to round out your knowledge of what happened to the traitor Primarchs, but you're not missing out on any iconic scenes if you were to just find a Cliff's Notes style synopsis of the book. I guess there is a pretty interesting character in the War-Autist, who is so super savant-like that he can predict the future based purely on mathematical calculations on applied physics and bullet trajectories n shit. Kinda redundant when a not inconsiderable portion of the Legion can actually see into the future, but hey ho

>>61951214
>people don't like my true scale primaris marines
Am I the only one who wouldn't really care about playing True-Scale marines?
>Primaris
Okay, actually, I see the source of the frustration. At least make them look like they're wearing HH-era armour.

>>61951561
At least it's fluffy for Alpha's to be bigger than most, but still.

>>61954324
>How much effort do you put into making your army's list "fluffy"?
I'd say 80% fluffy, 20% because I want it. I think a lot of it is coming up with a convincing backstory. My RG have a Typhon, for heaven's sake, but the backstory for one of my RG forces is a Forgelord and his praevian protege were playing cards, baby-sitting the heavy and slow shit on some little frigate in orbit over Istvaan V when the shit hit the fan, and they've been waging their guerilla war with whatever they had on hand/since recovered. Which includes a Typhon, some Castellax, some sneaky Vorax and mixed squads of Loyalist survivors.
I like to imagine the Typhon basically lying in wait on the bottom of some giant acid bath/reservoir/swamp and rolling out to SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER some traitor filth.
>>
>>61949214
Small community for 40k and none for 30k.
>>
>>61954324
>How much effort do you put into making your army's list "fluffy"?
>By that I mean straightforward things like attempting to include flamers for Salamanders
I try to include pyroclasts
>>
SoH or the ultra bois
>>
>>61958154
Just flip a fucking coin, you can read the rules, fluff, or look at the models yourself to decide, if you want to defer the final decision to someone or something else flip a coin.

Not that you even intend to start an army most likely.
>>
>>61957814
Lel
>If claw and jumppack fail you my sons, get a fuck huge tank, paint it black and hide it in a bush... tactical genius I'd say
~Corax
>>
>>61958835
>paint it black and hide it in a bush... tactical genius I'd say
CREEEEEEEEEEED
>>
>>61952208
There are two. My Imperial Fists Praetor and a friends own.

The former? Has taken down whole squads of Ogryns in a single turn (Bless Paragon Blades), makes everyone flee before him, and generally accompanies his Stalker Vet squads to play hilarious havoc with the enemy forces. He’s never died and literally has killed 30+ characters in challenges. He walked through our Phall Campaign just shitting on everything so badly that the guy running it asked me if I wanted to try running other guys instead to effectively keep my Praetor immortal.

The latter? Captured literally every game in our Phall and Pluto campaign; was saved each time with ZM missions and promptly killed the guys who captured him the next games. Known for getting Tank Shocked.
>>
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>>61959372
You sound like you have great narrative campaigns, and I am quite envious.
>>
>>61959479
I have a group of 14-15 guys that all want to get together and just play. A few of us have multiple armies so pickup games and campaigns are somewhat more common for us even if we all live 30+ minutes from each other.
>>
I know blood angels are getting a book soon. But where are their rules currently?
>>
>>61959991
found it in book 6 nvm
>>
>>61959479
There was plans for a colossal Isstvan themed narrative game to be played in NZ in a couple of years spoken about on the Discord. Maybe you could take part in that if you met the people responsible.
>>
>>61958475
That would be the Traveller one.
>>
>>61954324
I take a bunch of tanks with my iron hands and always upgrade my praetor to have iron father
>>
>>61960858
Oh, you mean Iron Warriors, right?
>>
>>61949214
there's no hhg community in wellington. :(
>>
>>61957814
is that yours RG? It's nice to see the maori designs on a pale nomad actually look maori.
>>
>>61961192
There's not one in Auckland either. In fact there's not one anywhere. I think the problem is there's one player in every city. All together we could make a community if we wern't spread across the country.
>>
>>61960497
there's an (active) discord?
>>
>>61961302
iirc rg is in the tron so technically he should be hosting.

and on an other note, fluffy. hm. disgusting 2nd legion so a fluffy list is whatever i say it is, but i like elite infantry and dreads & choppy man fighting, so my lists tend to be over-hqed and under-gunned.
>>
>>61961412
I thought RGBro was in Timaru
>>
>>61961485
don't be silly anon, timaru doesn't have internet.
>>
>>61961506
That's what Mobile Data is for.
>>
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Help, I have close to 5000 points with no one to play with.

This is my 40k army lay out, but you get the gist.
>>
Weird request but could anyone post a height comparison between a castellax battle automata and a daemon prince? Going of this picture with a jet pack added on for height I think I could make the conversion work but my area has no 30k scene at all and I'd love to check first.
>>
>>61954324
>cries in unreleased necron titan
>>
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Hi /hhg/ ! I've almost finished my Valdor and I need a pause before working on my other Custodes. I'd like to paint some HH-related character for the NOVA Open charity raffle but I don't really know which one yet.

So I ask you /hhg/, what miniature would YOU like to win and why do you think it could be a pleasant painting experience ?
>>
>>61963785
Well if you enjoy painting gold there's dorn.
But i'm pretty sure /hhg/ would like to see the primarch wrecking, tuning fork toting anarchis scoria
>>
>>61959544
Good to hear some other people have active communities.
>>
>>61963785
How about Tylos Rubio? Being a knight errant he's useful to roughly half the people that might win the raffle. Maybe the armour doesn't seem that fun at first, but I see you can do NMM so I'm sure it'd be more interesting than just doing a coat of grey and leaving it. And finally the reason I went for Rubio over Garro is you could do some OSL malarkey around him being a psyker (the hood and/or the outstretched hand) if you wanted to.
>>
So i heard that the mechanicum have some relics, and im curious if anyone knows if they have both mechanicum relics and then the useall relics of the dark ages.

where can i find them? i looked in the mechanicum pdf last night and didnt see any mechanicum specific relics unless im just blind.
>>
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>>61961284
Unfortunately it is not mine, but it is a good model.

>>61961412
>>61961485
Where are you getting this from? I'm JAFA bru

>>61963785
Holy shit dude. Nice. I hated that model until now. I think there are so many good models in the Character series. Pollux, Sevatar, Eidolon, the IH Iron Father... The unnamed SoH command duo have aged very well I reckon.
>>
>>61966841
Relics are all in book 4 conquest
>>
>>61966841
Book 4 is where all the relics listed are.
>>
>>61966841
Be aware relics aren't meant to be considered part of the standard army list, instead being more for narrative use.
>>
>>61967053
>>61967125
>>61967162
thanks for the help anon’s.

i thought it was only relics of the dark ages are not for matched play, unless im missunderstanding that all relics should not be used unless all players agree to use.
>>
>>61967532
(edit)
just was able to look at book 4, and yeah, i see the passage about the relics. thanks for all the help. been tweaking a legio cybernetica list for a few days now.
>>
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>>61949214
I've never played a single game of 40k/this before and I've been into the hobby since 2001. I love the hobby aspect and I love the lore. I just don't know how to integrate into a group (there's a few here in WA luckily) alone and my only real friends are back in CA. One of which was only partially open to getting into it.

Money is also a constraint. I would like to buy FW but it's too expensive to build a real force. I usually get recast and I build shitty, mostly fluff heavy lists on battle scribe. I still would like to one day get into some kind of group and get a feel for everything game-wise with ZM or something. For now it seems like the closest to group-playing i'll be doing is DnD with my wife's friends.

pic is some AL I'm slowly working on.
>>
Imagine browsing the /TG/ catalog, clicking on a thread and then leaving a comment saying "dead game". Just imagine having that much spare time that you are that fucking bored. Amazing.

>>61970171
>here in WA
Thought you meant Wasteland Australia for a sec, which according to the Eye of Horus podcast has a decent enough HH scene. 'Straya in general seems to be doing well, before the recent gouging.

Those models look good bro. I don't know how I feel about mixed-mark armour, which is strange because I've never had a problem with it before now. Am I transitioning into a grognard? I guess you've got to paint them up and chuck up a pic when they're done, no doubt they'll look great finished.
>>
>>61970656
Now imagine being so bored you do it over and over again week after week.
>>
>>61970656
>mixed armor

They're a mixed squad of MkII and IV but the suits themselves are kosher. Armor mixing triggers me too unless it's a MkIV head on a MkVI body.
>>
>>61971589
This is true, and I did notice that. I don't know why this triggered me, it makes total sense that squads would start having members wearing different marks of armour as the war progressed.
>>
>tfw just read betrayer

truly angron did nothing wrong
>>
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If money were no object, what model would you buy Anon?

Just saw photos of a gorgeous Knight Acastus Porphyrion and wondered how much it would cost to buy one.
>My favourite communist sells Cerastus Knights for about $85ea.
>The Porphyrion costs $280
>MFW
>Still an absolute bargain when to buy one from FW costs $860, before taxes
It's like FW wanted to lose all their customers from the Southern Hemisphere.

>>61971832
>just read betrayer
Best book.
>>
>>61971832
Well, he bullied argel tal, when erebus would have been much more deserving of bullying.
>>
>>61971832
Honestly? I agree. His perspective is wrong for the most part, but he’s justifiably upset and does what he can to soothe the pain.

Poor bastard.

>>61971743
This is a huge thing for me; I don’t want to mix Armor marks at all on a single model for my Fists, but I completely understand having other full armor patterns in squads as the war goes on.

If I played SoH, Blackshields, or one of the Shattered Legions I absolutely would mix armor nonstop. 40k makes me feel awesome about mixing armor while 30k feels dirty.

I did however see someone mix MK 2 with MK 6 and that just kind of hurt my brain.
>>
>>61971920
A Warlord. I have a few Titans and plenty of Knights, but nothing excites me more than a Warlord; they’re iconic to me in a sense as they largely represent the sheer insanity of Warhammer itself
>>
>>61971920
An entire Titan Maniple. One Warlord, Two Reavers and two Warhounds.
>>
>>61952705
I want ONE source to confirm this style of terminator armor is saturnine

right now the only source I can find is it being called "Mk.I" in early days
>>
>>61971989
I find Emperor class more fitting of that
>>
Put together my Knight Lancer and Castellan (in anticipation for their confirmed 30k rules). Gotta clean them both heavily but that’s for another evening.

What’s everyone else up to?
>>
>>61971920
if I could get only one item I guess it'd be either a titan or a flyer of some kind. Either a Stormbird or Thunderhawk.

if there was no limit, at least one of everything just for shits and giggles. If I got bored working on thing I could switch to something totally different.
>>
>>61971743
I mostly am into Alpha Legion so it's probably less fluffy for them to have a ton of squads sprinkled with older marks but MkII is easily my 2nd favorite and I just like the variance really to break up a sea of MkIV armored squads.
>>
>>61962936
Same size as a regular Dreadnought.

>>61971920
Solar Auxilia with zero count-as models.
>>
>>61973385
I've sort of done this. I bought some Eldar and Harlequin shit to put together when I need a break from cleaning and assembling Vorax and SA infantry models.
>>
>>61972331

WHY ISNT THAT A FUCKING THING?
>>
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>>61973385
>>61973503
Forgot to follow it up with the fact that this doesn't really work. Now I'm just bored with everything and I have models lying around that I don't know what to do with.

Pic somewhat related, never finished painting it. Model looks incredible though.
>>
>>61973637
>
Forgot to follow it up with the fact that this doesn't really work. Now I'm just bored with everything and I have models lying around that I don't know what to do with.

oh I know. I have 20 tech-thralls with laslocks but I meant to get mitra locks. So now they're like 70% painted and idk what else to do with them lol
>>
>>61973539
Too goofy, also Forgeworld
>>
>>61973637
I have a pair of converted Macharius Omegas, fluff them as extremely small scale ordinatus instead of a tank, which kind of works due to a titan level weapon, no turret, and an open topped tank.
>>
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I just finished with The Outcast Dead, and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
>>
ADB and Chris Wraight lobbied hard for a small number of Siege of Terra books but lost more or less. Still ADB says "it won't be as many books as people are saying"

fresh reddit news
>>
>>61976459
idk what people are expecting anyway. 10? More?
>>
>>61976677
by being vague about what "people are saying"
he can avoid saying anything concrete
>>
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Why are traitors such losers?
>>
>>61973185
When are they supposed to get rules? asking for a friend who plays knights in 40k whos interested in 30k.
>>
>>61976459
So this will be a 12 book series like the Beast? A 25 book series?
>>
>>61977454
No idea, but GW made a mention of everything Knight related getting rules in 30k, plus a 30K Armiger was teased with that
>>
>>61974145
>Too goofy
>FW
They have no excuse anon.
>>
>>61976305
Yeah, sometimes the hivemind won't align with one's own preferences. I quite enjoyed French's Tallarn books, for example, but they're widely panned as being crimes against literature on here. (Also, I'm not sure where the "Pertuarbo is an angry manbaby" idea came from - he's not on screen enough in the main Tallarn novel to really give any sort of impression about his personality.)
>>
Militia/auxilia not-predator up for preorder, £68 or some comedy regional equivalent.
>>
>>61980260
Militia rules.
>>
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>>61980260
>FW axes poorly-selling Auxilia stuff to make room for.......
Auxilia stuff
>>
>>61980271
Solar Auxilia In Actually Getting Better Rules Than Militia Shock!
>>
>>61980260
$180. So a $40 markup even before the shipping cost is added in.
>>
>>61980286
Sanguinius on a scimitar, that's just silly.
>>
>>61980276
With triple autocannons that's actually not too shabby.
>>
>>61980271
>that neutered militia variant
It's literally a worse Exterminator

FW needs to get off their ass and right actual Imperial-Army rules so we stop having this issue
>>
>>61980578
Shouldn't play the background redshirt faction, I guess.
>>
>>61971920
macharius vanq, fire raptor or a selection of knights. it'd be nice if the fuckin castellan/valiant got those hh rules they promised us...and didn't cost THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY FUCKING DOLLARS.
Fucking gw.
>>
>>61980260
man i wish these'd been a replacement for the pred instead of a new tank, i hate the m113 hull so goddamned much.
>>
>>61980696
Well that's what I'm saying
there's nothing between the bakcground redshirt faction and the fan-fiction faction (kek)

It's well known that the Militia was really poorly thought out, which makes me wonder why some of the more interesting components (like provenances) weren't used on an Imperial Army list.
>>
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>>61977451
>knows that the person pretending to be his best bud actually isn't
>which follows that everything he's saying to him about Emps being evil and wanting to set himself up as a god is likely total bullshit
>decides to go along with it anyway 'cause reasons
You know who got fucked over hardest by the Horus Heresy? Horus. By Black Library.
>>
>>61980928
Horus had plenty of reasons to turn against the one who deliberately set him up to rebel as an excuse to get rid of him, the other seventeen numbered mistakes and all the Space Marines.
>>
>>61980947
>turn against the one who deliberately set him up to rebel as an excuse to get rid of him
That was never mentioned as a reason for his rebellion.
>>
>>61981009
I bet you when they reprint Visions of Heresy they'll retcon that one in.
>>
>>61980928
>know that you're going to be thunder warrior'd when the crusade ends
>not rebelling

ugh
>>
>>61981025
Probably. Wouldn't be surprised.

>>61981047
Oh, stop enabling BL's shitty """""lore."""""
>>
>>61981085
At least it gives Horus good reason to rebel, if as we know his maker was planning on getting rid of him now that his task was done.
>>
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>>61981085
>a better version of the story is that horus rebelled for the lulz and for reasons
>mentions shitty "lore"
>my fucking face when
>>
Hey anons, mind telling me what you think of my list? never played games as mech, and hardly at all desu. wanted to keep it fluffy but effective for fighting space marine legions, which are the primary group of players.
++ Crusade (Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List) [2000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Archmagos Dominus [240pts]: Abeyant, Archaeotech Pistol, Augury Scanner, Cyber-familiar, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Power Weapon

Magos Dominus [80pts]: Augury Scanner, Laspistol, Power sword

Magos Dominus [80pts]: Augury Scanner, Laspistol, Power sword

+ Troops +

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [245pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays
. Castellax class Battle-automata: Bolter, Flamer, Mauler Bolt Cannon, Shock Chargers
. Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Mauler Bolt Cannon, Shock Chargers

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [245pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays
. Castellax class Battle-automata: Bolter, Flamer, Mauler Bolt Cannon, Shock Chargers
. Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Mauler Bolt Cannon, Shock Chargers

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [285pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays
. Castellax class Battle-automata: Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Flamer, Shock Chargers
. Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Shock Chargers

+ Heavy Support +

Macrocarid Explorator [205pts]: Twin-linked Phased-Plasma Fusil, Two Twin-linked mauler bolt cannon

Thanatar-Calix Class Siege-Automata [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Array

Thanatar-Calix Class Siege-Automata [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Array

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Traitor

Legio: Legio Cybernetica

++ Total: [2000pts] ++
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>>61980286
you only have yourself to blame
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>>61982108
You may know this already, but castellax aren't scoring even in a legio cybernetica list. So, with no other troops you're probably going to need to table your opponent to win games, because you won't be getting any objectives. Which is fine, some people like to play like that, but just so you know what you're getting yourself in for.

Also IMO you could do with a little bit more anti-tank, two darkfire cannons and a load of S6 dakka aren't going to crack open the really heavy tanks & dreadnoughts that marine players like to bring.
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>>61982377
yeah, they don’t score but they do still count for denial, which is atleast somthing.

and my two Thanatar are for pulling the actual heavy weight AT where as the darkfire guns are sort of garbo comparitvley in most at requirements. the lance rule helps a bit.

but i appreciate your input,how would you suggest i add more reliable AT?
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>>61982450
Grav is king when it comes to antitank, so I'd get a vultarix (or even two). It's still fluffy, you're playing cybernetica after all.
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>>61982450
The only issue is Calix are pretty schizophrenic overpriced units for AT
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>>61982536
not familiar with its stats, ill look it up. Ive been playing chaos in 40k for so long i kind of forgot grav can be taken on an army i own lol.
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>>61982691
Its official rules are in Inferno, if you're wondering why you can't see if in the mechanicum army list.
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>>61982718
Double thanks, that exsplains a bit.

seems like they have a heavy 3 haywire gun on them. not shabby.
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>>61982108
Thanatar-Calix are just really really fucking shit to the point where they are wastes of points. They aren't particularly fast and at range they aren't particularly good. Comparing them to a darkfire cannon.

>Darkfire glances AV 14 flare shield on 6 and gets 2 shots
>Sollex lascannon penetrates AV 14 flare shield on a 6 and gets 1 shot
So the two strip the same number of hull points a turn, but a castellax with a darkfire cannon is less than half the price of a thanatar-calix, with two castellax being far tougher than a single thanatar.

Comparing them to units from other armies they are strictly worse than Laser Deredeos and Sicaran Venators having the same weapon strength but half the shots at a higher price. If you like the unit more power to you, but you would be better off bringing more darkfire cannons or as another anon suggested vulturax.

If you like thanatars a regular thanatar is your best bet for IDing two wound terminator death stars, cheaper too.

That Calix really should be like 60 points cheaper or the sollex lascannon should have armourbane or lance or something. For some super difficult to manufacture amazing expert crafted lascannon it is pretty shit.
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>>61983606
Thanks for the info. never thought of compairing the darkfire to it. how would you deal with a leviathen and deridio dread? thats what alot of people bring at least one of in every game ive seen. usealy one of both.
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>>61983728
Personally I play Ordo Reductor so my first choices are thallax, preferably flanking (9 rending autocannon shots with sunder can fuck up a lot of lighter vehicles) and myrmidon secutors with graviton guns. That being said for mechanicum in general the best anti-tank is secutarii peltasts with arc rifles due to the sheer volume of haywire shots. For a pure automata force I would probably say either vulturax or darkfire cannons, the latter aren't quite as reliable, but their long range allows for a large degree of flexibility especially if your foe brings no infantry.

IMO there are only three or four automata that are really worth it (but damn are they worth it), the rest either having a major weakness, having a small maximum unit size (meaning they are easy to tarpit) or having another achilles heel. Castellax are good line/shock troops, kitted out right they can be good for just moving up the table dumping AP 3 fire, sitting back and firing their darkfire cannons, or taking power blades for 5 attacks each on the charge (thank you rage), Thanatars (and Thanatar-Cynis) are good for dealing with clusters of heavy infantry, being able to ID marines is massive in a game filled with marine death stars, and Vulturax are essentially your lightning equivalents, they are fast, autonomous, and can fuck up tanks.

Thanatar-Calix are overpriced or underpowered, Vorax are fodder for krak grenades, and the rest are simply too easy to tarpit while lacking the offensive shooting that thanatar variants have.
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>>61984130
thank you for the help.
i havent played many games as my death guard, and nome as mech. im starting to see some of the things you mentioned about the robots.
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>>61981222
As it stands currently Horus rebelled and murdered trillions because he had a bad dream. It completely undercuts the Heresy when the war makes no sense. At least in previous lore he was possessed which makes his 180 turn more reasonable, if unsatisfying.
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>>61980271
>autocannons
thanks for nothing fw
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>sacrifice 95% of your God-Machines and millions of soldiers performing a ground invasion of the 2nd most fortified planet in the Galaxy right before the Siege instead of just knocking it to pieces with cyclonic torpedoes
Horus was a tactical genius.
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>>61985055
No, it's the one thing that led to another until Horus is fully empowered but possessed by Chaos. It's weird and nuanced enough for me not to bin it immediately.
Also don't forget that the wound that led to the >bad dream was caused by Horus' friend-gone-full-Chaos using a one of a kind Chaos artefact consecrated specifically to kill Horus by none other than the high priest of Chaos.
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>>61986926
T b h, having a forward operating base from which to muster at for the attack on Terra is a good idea. When you get to the system, Mars can fulfil that role, but you need to get there first. Also if I was Rogal Dorn, I'd put a fair bit of effort into first trying to bring the enemy to a battleground of your choosing, and then stopping them from just Exterminatus'ing it from orbit much like Perturabo did with the Iron Cage.

Also, did they lose 95% of their Titans there? I thought it was something that the Black Library had just invented
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>>61986926

I thought that orbital bombardment required you to have total superiority of the skies because a warship is an enormous target and surface-air lasers are fully capable of gutting them. Putting a warship into low orbit above a defended world is just begging to lose it to orbital fire.

It's why the Planet Killer was such a big thing, because it didn't need to be in low orbit to deliver torpedoes.
Plus the whole Russ thing

>"A fortress circumvented ceases to be an obstacle. A fortress destroyed ceases to be a threat."
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>>61953430
Once we are somewhat closer to February 2019 since that's when we'll get the next book.

Until then not too much of a reason to rush those models out. See: the BA praetor that's been shown a while ago and is still MIA.
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>>61982108
>Archmagos Dominus [240pts]: Abeyant, Archaeotech Pistol, Augury Scanner, Cyber-familiar, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Power Weapon
You thinking of a specific conversion idea for this guy or going to stick to something more generic?
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My store is still selling BoP boxes at MSRP. Do you think I could flip them for 250 on ebay? Mostly worried about being able to move them, and breaking them down into components would eat into my profits too much.
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currently on betrayer in what book does the gods what does the gods actually talk to the primarchs fulgrim turned into a demon prince and we havnt heard a conversation between him and Slaanesh magnus is the only one so far
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haliaan ealaa alkhayin fi 'ayi kitab yafeal alalihat ma aldhy tatahadath fih alalihat fieliaan mae al'abatarat aladhin tahawaluu 'iilaa 'amir shaytaniin w samiena muhadathatan baynah wabayn Slaanesh magnus hi alwahidat hataa alan
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>>61991180
I too Cthulhu fhtagen, my fellow gentleman.
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>>61949214
the cost, I can barely afford 40k as is, but 30k is absurdly pricey, thankfully my friend has decided to hook me up with a tau recaster somewhere in the orient. That ans as others have said, the community is so, so, SO small. I just picked up an Angron though so I am on the road to playing a game.
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>>61962600
are those sanguinary guard APOTHECARIES?
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>>61973468
you beat me to this. Good Choice.
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Re: the shown off praetors
>Real soon! Watch this space
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>>61986737
it could have been beautiful
all lasca and elite slot is all that is needed.
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>>61973468
>Solar Auxilia with zero count-as models.
speaking of

>want to run an Imperial Army force
>Militia is too shit
>still want it to be a "local" force so SA is a problem

what do
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>>61986926
At this point it is no longer impressive of heroic that merely 3 Legions held off most of the Traitor legions for that long, but a fucking joke that the loyalists lost anything at all.
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>>61992877
>At this point it is no longer impressive OR heroic that
Grammer for the grammer nazis
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>>61992340
Use SA rules for custom minis.
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>>61987225
I doubt that turning Beta-Garmon into a forward operating base before Mars is worth losing such an insane amount of resources. Use one of the planets between Mars and Beta-Garmon if you really can’t wait.

>>61987378
You don’t have to be incredibly near a planet to hit it with a cyclonic torpedoe, as demonstrated in every example of its use. In fact you wouldn’t want to be in orbit when the thing explodes.
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>>61993618
>In fact you wouldn’t want to be in orbit when the thing explodes.
They don't blow the planet apart, they just induce extreme tectonic instability. With proper bio-modifications even a Carnifex can survive.
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>>61976305
DESU I liked the Outcast Dead as a Jailbreak novel, a look at how Terra works, and all the Emperor's stuff in dreams. It's a solid but not groundbreaking HH novel. I can't understand why people shit on it.
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>>61986926
They basically say horus was forced to capture it as it's essential for a warp route from terra for the rest of his forces. Going to a different route would hold up the attack for months and he knows guilliman/lion are on their way to his rear as it is.

As for not exterminatusin the planet, an excuse will probably be given in the actual book. Likely that the planet had void shields or significant surface-to-orbit defenses (the same excuse as to why the loyalists didn't just exterminatus horus at Isstvan V)
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Other than Angel Exterminates, what books feature the Iron Warriors in the HH? I've left off with Pert zooming into a black hole and feeling pretty blueballed. Plus, my expensive Tyrant Termies cry out to be used! Do they ever show up in HH?
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>>61986926
welcome to a problem that plagues tons of sci-fi franchises.

Granted star wars gets around it usually by "muh planetary shielding" and halo with "they had relics"
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>>61991104
the gods really never appear in the book proper, they're beyond comprehension.

Even Magnus in A Thousand Sons was just talking to Aforgomon, an alternate name for Fateweaver
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>>61993945
Crimson Fist
Tallarn
Slaves to Darkness
Perturabo: Hammer of Olympia
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Is it really considered a dick move to run more than one Knight? I’m building up a big force of Knights because I love their design and look, but apparently running more than one even as allies is considered rude.

Do you normally ask your opponents permission to use an all Knight force or even 1-3 as an allied detachment?
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>>61993912
>They basically say horus was forced to capture it as it's essential for a warp route from terra for the rest of his forces.
That doesn't work though, because Zaramund is described in the exact same way and is in the Death Guard's hands.

Seriously, Gav, Zaramund makes no sense at all.
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>>61994371
IIRC zaramund is a route to segmentum solar

beta-garmon is a route to sol system

segmentum solar is still a pretty big place
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>>61993945
>Tyrant Termies
Guilliman here, hehe check out my unique termies
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>>61994290
Just keep in mind that allied knights need a pricey hq knight, and its cheaper to run a war machine detachment but said detachment's knights still fall under the 25% rule. I think the WMD is less rude, and would happily play against it since i'd run my own LOW and stand a chance. Plus, watching a fellblade take on two knights sounds epic.
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>>61994001
>Aforgomon
>-mon
Chaos Gods confirmed for digimon. Horus confirmed turned by excessive exposure to the digirap.
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>>61994407
Angels of Caliban is explicit that Zaramund is a warp conduit to Terra. It's why their rebellion was such a big deal.

It also helps explain why the Lion came down so hard on Luther for joining Horus' forces: they were about a third of the galaxy away from where they were supposed to be. That's big deal shit.
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How did the dead walk during the Xana Incursion?
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>>61995098
Spooky scary skeleteens.
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>>61994501
You mean that they're confirmed for loa?
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>>61995232

That part was pretty spooky.
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>>61994501
Graham McNeil gives Tzeentch a weird Japanese vibe for whatever reason

Fateweaver takes the name Aforgomon and inhabits the form of an android called a yokai

though the term aforgormon itself is from lovecraft
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>>61995098
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>>61995512
>Their vivi-techs don't rely upon the W'slaren Theorem or Necro-Alkhestry
Amateurs. I'll bet they aren't even versed in Nehek's bio-motive engrams. It's like you don't even want to Heretek Omega.
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>>61993912
>Likely that the planet had void shields or significant surface-to-orbit defenses (the same excuse as to why the loyalists didn't just exterminatus horus at Isstvan V)

This doesn’t make sense. If they had void shields covering the whole planet and planetary guns that shot anything trying to make planetfall than a ground invasion wouldn’t work at all. If you can get drop pods to the surface you can get missiles. Also it’s explicitly mentioned that the void shield covering of Isstvan was extremely patchy. The only reason the loyalists didn’t Exterminatus all the Primarchs is because Ferrus was an overconfident retard and wanted to punch traitors
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>>61996159
>If you can get drop pods to the surface you can get missiles.
Drop pods are minuscule compared to space torpedoes. Fuckers are ~200 feet long.
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>>61993883
In my experience with /tg/ over the years, fa/tg/uys tend have pretty black and white views on things (games, rules, books, characters, people, etc). Personally, I enjoyed many of the character interactions, but particularly how the Emperor is portrayed, especially in comparison to MoM.
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>>61980738

I plan on using it as a 40K chaos space marine predator because I too hate the look of the plastic predator.
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>>61993281
That's what I'm thinking, I just dont want to run into some WYSIWYG fag who whines that they're not wearing space suits
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>>61980738
These look like uglier preds, the deimos pattern is much better
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>>61999127
Anyone that pulls that doesn’t deserve to play against you
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>>61999346
>>61998865
i'm kinda weirded out no one replied for ages and then two of you did so the most recent posts when i come are (you)s.
>Deimos
making the pred look like a commie tank suits its appalling tactical focus, i agree.
honestly i wish the sicarian got a proper turret, i want a tank that has the tiger's deathbrick menace or the panther's slickness, hell even the ragnarok was cool. the pred is just stupid.
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>>61999529
>i want a tank that has the tiger's deathbrick menace or the panther's slickness
I want something that doesn't look like a brick.
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>>61999586
BRB, glueing lascannons to an actual brick for proxying purposes.
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>>61999586
then the imperium is not the faction for you...unless you're a talon.
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>>61999636
I can live with deimos preds
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>>61999636
White scars players can avoid having any models that look like bricks, providing they're okay with models that look like dicks.
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Warrior elite/ Dark age survivors grenadiers vs Tacticals
>same armour
>Same BS
>equal shooting strength
>no worse effective AP
>better range
>better leadership
>Cheaper
>can take special weapons
Militia 4 ever, Muh posthumans on suicide watch
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Just got back from the Eye of Horus Spindral Wastes campaign with my Shiney Fists. They performed both horribly and great solely depending on the amount of ones I was rolling.
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>>62000192
>T3

You're not wrong, it's just a shame that the rest of the Militia list is so garbage
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>>62000192
>tacticals are rubbish
>pope is catholic
>bears shit in woods
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>>62000192

Upgrading their ranged weapons to Boltguns leaves them at 95pts/10, or 100/10 with Lasrifles. At that point they are just Tacticals with -1WS/S/T, a Sergeant stuck with a pistol/CCW, and no Legiones Astartes.
A unit of 10 actually lose a straight shooting match against Astartes, even ignoring the benefits of their LA rule.
They have advantages in being able to take Proteus and Arvii stock, but these also come at the expense of not taking any special weapons in the squad.
On the other hand, if you go pull-blob then congrats, they are more efficient than Tacticals. They are also a large blob on foot with all of the Phosphex-induced death it brings, plus an instant-wipe to any melee threat.
It's also extremely disingenuous to pretend they are still 5pts/model when the package is dependent on a 125pt upgrade to your otherwise-useless HQ, plus 30-35pts/squad for the guns.

They are decent but far from a replacement, and outperforming Tacticals is an exceptionally low bar to begin with.
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>>62000396
>>62000192

Running Survivors as a melee list can be moderately entertaining.
> 18 Grenadiers with Power Armour, Enhanced Weapons and 2 Medics for 140pts
> Basically Orks except with 3+/5++
> Still have a spare Provenance for WS4 or Rending

The massive startup cost of Survivors preclude using it as a Allied detachment IMO and thus you want to run several squads in a Primary. At the same time, the rock-bottom cost-per-man means you want to run them in big blobs rather than in transports and just drown the enemy in Power Armour like the old Black Templar list.

The real game-breaking unit in the Militia are Levy, because a 2pt model should not exist in a game where everything is oriented to killing Marines. Taking 100 is the best Allied contingent you can ever get for almost any Legion.
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>>61977934
>30k armigers.
Yeees, mini knights for the win. I'm sure they will be the Slaneshi engines or something like that from Old Epic.
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>>61957814
>I guess there is a pretty interesting character in the War-Autist

He's just a character McNeil stole from the Ahriman books, and he's not as interesting as he is there.
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>>62000278
That yellow is nice, anon.

Surprises me how shiny fists actually look good.
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>>61980738
Just paint it in Spess Marine colours and run it as a Pred.

Perfect sense that the marines would loot 'em during the heresy to make up loses.

>>61999529
>honestly i wish the sicarian got a proper turret
Sicaran should have gotten a proper turret and souped up Pred options.

So Autocannon, Melta, Plasma, the good shit.
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>>62002042
*yawn*
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>>62002042
>REEEE, Dead Game
Fuck off
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>>62002220
He probably had it deleted because a responsible person reported reported him for spam.
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>>61995818
I mean, we sorta know how the Keys of Hel work now, and the IH still use them 10k years later. No need to look deep into Admech techno-sorcery.
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>>62002247
I usually assume they deleted it as part of the troll and screenshot it to be sure.

Though this one was likely due to spam
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>>62002253
I just want rules for more dark mechanicum shit. Beep boops are nice and all but i want proto-daemon engines and weapons of chaos and xenos origins.
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>>62002285
>i want proto-daemon engines
Why not Daemon Beep Boops?
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>>62002356
Considering how much Dark Mechanicus daemons behave like extremely aggressive malware and such in the Grey Knight novel Dark Adeptus I imagine it'll be easier than you'd think. Daemons can run on standard machine spirit hardware fairly easily, you just have to get it in there (and it may not want to cooperate on that front).
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>>62002356
I would pity the daemon that get stuck in a thanatar calix.
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>>62002469
>I would pity the daemon that get stuck in a thanatar calix.
wipe the machine spirit first, the animalistic spirit of Mechanicum robots may well prove stronger otherwise.
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>>62002469
Just make sure it's a Tzeentch Daemon that likes ranged fighting.

I pity the daemon that possesses a Kastellan
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>>62002285
Honestly, it's kind of embarrassing that you can use more Daemon-automata playing khorne/Death guard in 40k than you can playing dark Mechanicum in 30k.
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>>62002663
To be fair, the Dark Mechanicum book isn't even out yet, so that may well change.
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>>62002663
>>62002752
Also if your group aren't faggots you can pull Decimators and Blight Drones out of IA13 and use them for dark mech if people are okay with it. It's what my lot do.
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>>62002772
This is unironically the best way to run Imperial Army as well. Just use the Guard Codex
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>>62002772
I would rather have less developed stuff though, you know an obvious middle ground, they are clearly daemon engines that influenced stuff like the decimator and brass scorpion but they aren’t decimator engines and brasss scorpions.
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>>62000280
I'd replace WE with Mutant Helots, wich gives you +1T.

I had an idea for a small Militia Detachment using Mutant Helots, SotDA, give the squad autopistols and those +1S CCWs, and run them as rush job, second tier Marine recruits. Just a bunch of roided up and MkV clad berserkers they can haul in bulk transports at the enemy.
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>>62000192
>If you build your entire army around it you can field a unit that is just marginally worse than one of the the worst space marine units
Wow, Militia and Cults is really OP
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>>62003605
Get out of here with your actually fun ideas.
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>>62000278
I don't care for shiny fists, looks too close to gold
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>>61952705
Wish some company would make big shoulder pads like that. I've been meaning to make a character or two in Saturnineish armour. More like prototype artificer terminator armour. So far the biggest pads I've seen come from Master Crafted.
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How much of a gimmick are Plasma Outriders? I’m building my guys right now with a bike Apothecary to protect their asses, but haven’t done the weapons yet.
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>>62004714
They're awesome, but pricey as hell in terms of pts.
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>>62002849
the current brass scorpion fluff is that they're straight out of the warp, and they didn't show up until M35.
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Baby's first greenstuff, how's it looking ?
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>>62005521
That's the point that the anon you are replying to is making. Loyalists have automata, the really crazy Daemon engines don't turn up until millenia later, so we want something interesting that's somewhere in between.
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>>62004714
4 bikes with plasmas is 220pts., averages 7.444 hits at rapid fire and suffers 0.074 unsaved wounds due to overheating. 5 plasma marines in a rhino is 210pts., 6.666 hits at rapid fire and suffers 0.555 unsaved wounds due to overheating.
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>>62005902
>Loyalists have automata
To be fair canonically most of the Legio Cybernetica sided with Horus.
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>>62004714
Expensive but pretty flexible against heavy infantry, less of a suicide unit than deepstriking combi-plasma seekers or vets.
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>>62006182
the REQUIRE a apotechary though, they're a very thankful unit to shoot at, since with plasmas you really don't want to jink.
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>>62006271
>the REQUIRE a apotechary though
If you are just outflanking they require it far less than veterans considering 12" vs 6" move and the fact that bikers' guns aren't one shot meaning even if they aren't in rapid fire range they can still fire their guns and not risk "wasting" anything (outflanking vets just to fire 10 BS 4 plasma gun shots is pretty wasteful).

>they're a very thankful unit to shoot at, since with plasmas you really don't want to jink
Depends entirely on the situation, the fact is that the fact that they are able to jink in the first place is an advantage over similar plasma gun units.

Comparing (in ten man units) plasma bikers to combi-plasma vets to combi-plasma seekers (gonna assume they are shooting at their marked for death target).
>Bikers cost 55 Points each
>Vets cost 26 Points each
>Seekers cost 35.5 Points each

So for those extra 19 points you are getting
>+1 toughness
>The ability to jink
>Twin-linked plasmas (33% increase in firepower)
>Plasmas aren't one-use
>12" move
and you are losing the ability to score

Even without an apothecary you are still gaining a ton of flexibility at the cost of a small amount of flexibility in one area. This goes double for legions with rules that provide specific benefits. For example SoH plasma bikers who managed to get close are practically on par with seekers shooting at their marked for death target, while Iron Hands bikers will always get a feel no pain and are only wounded by plasma guns on a 3+ and bolters on a 6+.
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>>61953430
WHITE SCARS CONTEMPTOR WHEN
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>>62006626
no
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>>62006680
yes, because this is 30k and every legion does everything you dumb wigwam
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>>62006695
Ok, so where's my psyker praetors with a power scythe and dog companions?
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>>62005595
That’s actually really good
>>
Finished putting together Krole to go with Valdor. Absolutely gorgeous model.

The size difference is huge and Krole has to have been the most fiddly ForgeWorld model I’ve ever built; she’s 18 pieces!
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>>62006680
>White Scars cannot ever have dreadnoughts
>Cannot have dreadnoughts from before Khan was discovered and Chogorian culture began to influence the legion
>Cannot have a White Scar who thought "being interred in a dreadnought seems like a literal hell but I will go through with it to keep fighting and maybe save my company from extermination"
I really dislike the idea of hard limitations to legions taking units. I don't mind something like not being allowed to take phosphex when Vulkan is in charge or dreadnoughts when Khan is the warlord but there are perfectly plausible explanations for any legions using any equipment even if they hate it.
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>>62006909
Is Krole like 8 feet tall? Ignoring the bases the two look to be about the same height.
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>>62006626
At the same time as Death Guard librarians, Salamander Destroyers and the Imperial Army list
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>>62007019
She’s about 6’9” in the lore because of her boot-heels. A foot of hair doesn’t help.
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>>62006604
>lose the ability to score
That's why i love scars. Bikers as troops is fucking legit
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>>62006873
That's because the torsos aren't mine and you don't see the rest up close
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>>62006998
Well, from a lore perspective these things can't just be summoned up if a particular legionnaire or commander wants it. An inventory of phosphex munitions or Dreadnought chassis must be stored, maintained, kept supplied and replenished. If the primarch doesn't approve of something, then they will not be requested or even refused from supply drops and convoys, and stockpiles will be disposed of to free up resources such as space, maintenance man hours and the like
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>>62007677
>>62006998
From a game perspective, each legion is meant to have its own unique character. Allowing for too much overlap dilutes the character of the Legions and makes the game more bland.
>>
>>62007731

or atleast, give the WS dread wheels
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>>62007810
or mount them on a bike.
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>>62007677
>Well, from a lore perspective these things can't just be summoned up if a particular legionnaire or commander wants it
Lots of things can't just be summoned up, but they can be utilized, which is the whole point. A White Scars company could have a dreadnought with them who is a veteran of Terra crippled in the first battle outside of the Solar system. A Salamanders company with a more ruthless commander could utilize captured phosphex stores to use against the enemies in desperation.

>>62007731
>From a game perspective, each legion is meant to have its own unique character.
That should be represented by standard LA bonuses and penalties like Night Lords being better when they can gank the enemy and Iron Hands being too methodical to sweep or run without passing a leadership test.
>>
Do Sisters of Silence make decent allies?

I’m tinkering with running a bunch in Kharons with my Ultramarines.
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>Alt-Universe FW announces that a Great Crusade Black Book will be made for HH. There will rules and models for all major Xeno factions.
>Pic related is a Rangdan Warrior
How would you feel?
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>>62008118
>Do Sisters of Silence make decent allies?
I mean they are cheap, but unless your opponent is taking psykers they aren't really notable. They aren't particularly cheap, lethal, or survivable, but they aren't particularly expensive, useless, or squishy.
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>>62008158
>>
>In my opinion, the problem is the 30k community is so vocally anti-8th edition that GW doesn't see any benefit in supporting the way they might if they simply ported the game over. For every decent/thematic rule that's lost (vehicle facings) another two are implemented (better/more realistic profiles for melee weapons, degrading profiles for vehicles, etc). The 30k fanbase has cut off their nose to spite their face.

Do you agree?
>>
>>62008918
>For every decent/thematic rule that's lost (vehicle facings)

Ok but that's like 4 rules in itself
>Weapon Facings
>Armour Facings
>Armour values
>Hullpoints

I was turned off from 8th when I saw a shadowsword start the game parked in a corner of the board, yet the rules allow it to shoot its main gun from its arse

I'd only ever consider 8th if things like that can remain. HH needs to be more crunchy anyway; vanilla 8th with -just- marines is boring as fuck
>>
>>62008918
>if they simply ported the game over.
>simply
There is nothing simple about converting ~650 pages of rules (the army list red books plus unincluded portions of books 6 and 7) to a completely incompatible ruleset. This is not like 6th to 7th. 8th is a 100% top to bottom redo of 40k. You are basically asking
>why doesn't FW simply port 30k to D&D 5e?
in terms of difficulty. I'm not even getting into the fact that when 9th edition is being worked on FW WILL NOT BE TOLD. Flat-out no communication on that shit. Look at Fires of Cyraxus--book was completely done and then 8th dropped, rendering it null and void.

I can't agree with your opinion because it's completely disconnected from reality.
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>>62008158
I can feel the warp overtaking me as I look at that image. It is not a good pain.
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>>62008918
>the 30k community is so vocally anti-8th edition
Holy shit stop shilling your fucking conversion to 8th you fucking retard. If HH was ported I would still play it. I vastly prefer 7th to 8th, but I vastly prefer nearly every edition before 7th over 7th, yet here I am playing 7th and enjoying myself.
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>>61948840
If his chapter had killed one Word bearer for every 2 Ultramarines casualties,the Horus Heresy would have ended.

Calth was the clusterfuck to end all Clusterfucks,Guilliman should have blown his brains out afterwards.
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>>62009173
>If his chapter had killed one Word bearer for every 2 Ultramarines casualties,the Horus Heresy would have ended.
>This is what Word Bearers actually believe
The Word Bearers are so shit that Horus probably would have been better off if they had been destroyed.
>>
>>62007082

She has a pretty cool nickname. "Soulless Queen of the Imperium".
>>
The FAQ says that a Legion Champion may take a Paragon Blade for 20pts. Since it's not replacing anything, I assume it's on top of all its normal weapons. So I could have a terminator champion with a chainfist, paragon blade and a combi-bolter?
>>
>>62008158

Were the Rangdan a coalition?
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>>62009330
I would assume it's included in the option that lets you take the chainfist. you could RAW it i guess
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>>62009073
>why doesn't FW simply port 30k to D&D 5e?
Because Thousand Sons are already broken enough.
>>
>>62009401
>Under the heading Wargear add the following bullet point:
>• A Legion Champion may take a Paragon blade for +20 points.

It's added to the Champion entry (like how, say, Siege Breaker has the option to buy phosphex bombs), no the Centurion one.
>>
>>62009651
Oh right

I guess it's kosher then
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>>62009330
RAW yes, although I would probably call you a fag for trying to pull that shit.
>>
>>62009573
What's the AC of MKIII vs MKIV?
>>
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>>62009683
>only way to get a terminator character with two close combat weapons (that aren't lightning claws)
>fag
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>>62009341
>Were the Rangdan a coalition?
We don’t really know anything about them. It’s mentioned that they used Slaugth bioconstructs so it’s possible.
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>>62009782
Doesn't matter because my army is wizards.
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>>62005595
babby's first greenstuff is filling in holes or maybe rolling out cables.

I don't buy that this is your first time but either way it looks good at clean.
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>>62006909
still can't get down with Valdor's daemon pelt thing but I can't deny that these two are some badass looking models. I wish I was more into SS/Custodes because these would be rad display pieces.
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>>62009980
>implying space marines can be stopped by a sleep spell cast by some faggot in a bathrobe
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>>62010079
Good point, due to the Catalepsean Node they would need to use two sleep spells.
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>>62010041
I'm pretty sure it's bluestuff pressmolds, looks like ones that were done a few threads back
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>>62012942
Makes me moist
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>>62012942
why are moritat always space marine cowboys duel wielding exotic shit?
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>>62013095
Because that’s what they literally are
>>
Official Legion Numbers for Terra:

>Imperial Fists: ~90,000
>Blood Angels: ~60,000
>White Scars: ~30,000
>Custodes: ~1,000
Total: 181,000

>Sons of Horus: ~100,000
>World Eaters: ~80,000
>Death Guard: ~60,000
>Iron Warriors: ~70,000
>Emperor's Children: ~50,000
>Thousand Sons: ~5,000
>Word Bearers: ~20,000
>Night Lords: ~10,000
Total: 395,000
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>>62012942
Is there a way to make Moritats good for either TS or AL
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>>62013166
No. Every attempt basically boils to pouring points into a leaky bucket
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>>61973539
It was. I've got one in the bottom of my "fuck me, I'm glad I finally learned how to paint" box. Metal mini - it weighed about half a pound (j/k)
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>>62013138
Where are you getting this?
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>>62013166
>Is there a way to make Moritats good for either TS or AL
I mean they aren't particularly bad, but no they don't have any particular bonuses.
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>>62012942
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>>62013166
>>62013645
The only marginally useful thing TS could utilize is misfortune with double volkite for hilarious deflagrations
>>
I hope the unique praetors have some degree of distinctiveness and ability to match characters from the legion.
For example, IW Praetor can run as a convincing Vhalen.
Or a RG Praetor with a bit of work can look like a unique Moritat (Nex) or Maun.
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>>62013889
The EC praetor better work as Tarvitz
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>>62013977
>he wants the EC praetor to be modelled with a sniper rifle
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>>62010041
>>62011352
Yeah it's mostly from bluestuff, the torsos and any kind of scales are molded, i did sculpt the flames and some tiny hammers though.
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>>62013889
So long as the termie praetor can pass for Golg, we're golden
>>
Newfag question: why are the Alpha Legion special terminators armed with weapons that have no synergy? C-beams and Volkite both seem awesome, but why put them together if they’re exact opposites?
>>
>>62015583
>Idiot answer
The exact opposite to a C-Beamer would have been an Eradication Beamer from 40k.
>serious answer
Because the AL are fucky like that. The Lernaeans are supposed to be the jaws of the hydra clamped tight.
>>
>>62015583
Because FW clearly forgot they can't split fire.

They're -meant- to be able to be great at long and short range, as fits the AL.
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>>62008918
The problem is no one wants your steaming pile of shit of a fan conversion to 8th but you refuse to acknowledge this fact because you're too much of a manchild.

Toi be fair being this much of a petulant shit is indeed a very big problem.
>>
>>62015583
>but why put them together if they’re exact opposites?
Nah, Eradication Beamers are the opposite of a C-beam.
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>>62015583
Lernaeans, despite being able to hold their ground in a shooting match, are meant to be a dedicated melee unit with their WS of 5 and the Stubborn USR.
They're best configured with a Plasma Blaster supplementing their Volkites, and a healthy smattering of Power- / Chain Fists.
And, being Cataphractii, they of course need a transport.

The Conversion Beamer still can do okay-ish at short range (STR 6 Blast, AP -), but the synergy just isn't strong enough to justify it over a Plasma Blaster.
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>>62006909
Is Krole's head attached to her model?

I'm considering using her as a conversion base for an Inquisitor.

>>62007040
>Salamander Destroyers
Pyroclasts

>>62013440
His arse
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>>62013138
The traitors barely outnumber the loyalists two to one, no wonder the siege was a failure.
>>
>traitors now claim terra lost due to numbers and not because they're a cavalcade of fuckups commanded by galactic-scale retards.
honestly if you weren't a mentalcase by the time of the siege the sheer incompetence of horus's trained monkeys/siblings would've sent you over the edge pretty quickly, as you join the warmaster in realising you're on the team with the special needs kids.
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>>62015823
>Is Krole's head attached to her model?
Nope, the heads are separate parts. Enjoy your conversion anon.
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>>62016356
Oh good.

Now I just have to work out a head to use and possible arm swaps.
>>
Do we have an ETA for the Knight 30k Rules?

I want to run Armigers with my DG.
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>>62016405
Nope.
Waiting for some CHOOM cannons for my armigers as well.
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>>62016505
I'm hopping for a Warglaive w/ Siege Claw and Rad-Cleanser.

Would fit perfectly with my DG.
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>>62013250
obviously not TS or AL, but the thought I've had is that for Space Wolves have a HQ tax, to the point that the FOC expands if it gets higher than 3000 points. At that point, take a Moritat as one of your HQ choices, kit them out to be a bit survivable and run them as a distraction carnifex in the enemies backline. At their most, they'll cost less than 200 points but they could end up tying down far more than that
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>>62016520
>to the point that the FOC expands if it gets higher than 3000 points.
Why the fuck doesn't it do this naturally?
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>>62016531
Because the AoD book suggests going Apocalypse above that point level.
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>>62016553
I mean it should just expand every 1000 points.

Maybe then M&C would be usable.
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>>62016553
>>62016562
The FoC should just do the following:

>1 HQ, Elites, FA and HS; and 2 Troops slots per 500 points.
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>>62015823
>Pyroclasts
Or just SWS/HWS with (heavy) flamers.
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>>62016405
If we ever get them. I mean, Custodes and Mechanicum still haven't seen hide nor hair of their 40k stuff.
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Show me your consuls /hhg/ !
Pic is my wip vigilator
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>>62016208
Horus was also a massive retard himself so he deserved the team he got.
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>>62007934
>lore
The white scars were far removed from imperial supply lines almost until the siege, it would be highly unlikely that a bunch of dreadnought chassis would just fall into their lap. In addition, legionnaires found wanting would be packed into suicide companies to seek redemption; knowing how uncompromising the Khan is, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the fate of most if not all terran dreadnoughts soon after he took control of the legion.
As for the salamanders, even after Vulkans disappearance the remnants of Terra the legion fell deeper into his teachings, not further from it like the Hands. As a result, it would be more likely that a Salamander commander would wish to honour the memory of Vulkan rather than besmirch it with proscribed weaponry

>rules
If limitations are not included, strange unfluffy armies can emerge due to WAAC tendencies. We already see this now with Jump pack death guard; do you really want to see Raven Guard tank companies, World Eaters Devastator spam or mass White Scar dreads?
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>>62017329
What next ? You'll say no true salamanders would ever use phosphex ? This is the fucking heresy m8, the whole point is that you can play whatever the fuck you want because legions were mostly standardised.
And WAAC faggotry isn't a good reason to force people into heavily restricted armies.
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>>62017025
Medicae, Delegatus, Forge Lord and a Siege Breaker
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>>62016520
>>62013250
I had wondered if one could work in a DA ironwing list, using two volkite serpentas. No risk of overheat like with plasma, and S5 with the bonus from the rite means wounding marines on a 2+, could force a few failed saves.

Then I remembered DA just solve all their infantry killing problems with molecular acid. And it's an extra non-tank unit in a rite where half the army needs to be tanks (and you'll want most of the spare non-tanks to be dreadnoughts). So never mind.
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>>62017378
Why would they? It goes against their entire combat doctrine; indiscriminate and uncontrollable, and permanently taints the ground. Salamanders use fire to burn away the corrupt and leave fertile ground (metaphorically and literally) for healthy growth
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>>62017610
But not all of them come from nocturne or live by the promethean creed and desesperate times call for desesperate mesures.
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>>62017982
Reread the salamanders section of book 2, specifically the bit about what happened after Vulkan was reunited with the Terran 18th legion. Tl;dr he brought the whole legion back to Nocturne, as part of reforging it he taught it his philosophy, and the Terrans seemed to buy in - once they went out crusading again the legion's "conduct in war was regarded as exemplary".

As for "desperate times call for desperate measures", we've seen in many novels that the Salamanders stuck to their principles and often argued against the likes of the Iron Hands bombarding areas with civilians in. Or when Yesugai (from a famously chill legion, let's not forget) loses his shit and starts torturing someone, a Salamander puts him back on the straight and level.

And anyway, if you want to play cuntmarines in green armour, why are you playing Salamanders? There's Sons Of Horus for that. I do disagree when it's sometimes claimed that (for example) death guard never used any bikes or jump packs, but I don't understand why people pick a legion and then try to build an army completely differently to that legion's philosophy.
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>>62018324
>I don't understand why people pick a legion and then try to build an army completely differently to that legion's philosophy.
because i have the freedom to do so ? Because i don't like having every army pidgeonholed in a specific list ? Because fuck you, you can't tell me what to do, you're not my space dad ?
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>>62017329
>it would be highly unlikely that a bunch of dreadnought chassis would just fall into their lap
They don't need a bunch, they need exactly one across the entire legion to justify your army having one. The legions weren't chapters with highly unified beliefs and relatively small in size, legions were massive and individual formations could be separated from the bulk of their legion for extremely long periods of time either on garrison duty (like the fists and Iron Warriors) or carrying out specific offensive missions (like the Raven Guard exiles).

>As a result, it would be more likely that a Salamander commander would wish to honour the memory of Vulkan rather than besmirch it with proscribed weaponry
Once again you need exactly one guy willing to say "well this is a desperate situation, time to break out the phosphex" sure the legion in general disapproves of it, I'm not disagreeing with either case, but desperate times arrive and some people have differing opinions on when it is and isn't acceptable to do different things. Maybe the world is practically a dead world overrun by Word Bearers and daemons already and the last civilians are behind your lines being evacuated. Seems like there is no reason not to use phosphex.

>If limitations are not included, strange unfluffy armies can emerge due to WAAC tendencies. We already see this now with Jump pack death guard; do you really want to see Raven Guard tank companies, World Eaters Devastator spam or mass White Scar dreads?
How the fuck are World Eaters devastators or White Scars dreadnoughts particularly good? Even then curbing unfluffy WAAC tenancies is better done through making legions worse or better at specific roles or with specific units instead of saying "no you can never ever take this unit or equipment."
>>
>>62018561
They're not pigeonholed into a specific list. You can take a Salamanders covenant of fire or armoured breakthrough with lots of tanks. You can take a Salamanders orbital assault with everything in drop pods. You can take a Salamanders skyhunter phalanx with loads of jetbikes. You can take Salamanders lists with all terminators, loads of battle automata, loads of dreadnoughts, etc. etc. etc. You're not pigeonholed, unless you're a snowflake who wants to do the one thing the legion explicitly doesn't do (destroyers and moritats).

>because i have the freedom to do so
You don't actually, the rules don't allow it. Now, white scars dreadnoughts? That's actually not forbidden, although I'd recommend caution in case book 8 changes the legion rules to forbid them - you could end up painting a nice WS dreadnought model and only getting 5 or 6 years use out of it before the next book comes along and makes it illegal.
>>
>>62018643
>they need exactly one across the entire legion
Those kinds of exceptional individuals are better explored as special characters or rites of war dedicated to those circumstances. A special character WS dread, for example, would be absolutely fine, as would a Salamander RoW describing a force that resorted to proscribed weaponry.

>curbing unfluffy WAAC tenancies is better done through making legions worse or better at specific roles or with specific units instead of saying "no you can never ever take this unit or equipment."

So by this reasoning, do you believe Raven Guard should not have Flesh over Steel, Thousand Sons should be allowed non-psyker warlords, and Blackshields should be able to take RoWs?
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>>62017584
Ironwing bolter spam is real though.
But Moritat cannot be affected by the rite's bonus,
>>
>>62018735
>unless you're a snowflake who wants to do the one thing the legion explicitly doesn't do (destroyers and moritats).
No other legion outright ban so much stuff, fuck you for thinking removing stuff instead of discouraging them is better.
>That's actually not forbidden, although I'd recommend caution in case book 8 changes the legion rules to forbid them
Again, fuck you for that retarded idea : "may only include one dreadnought talon" would be good enough but you just want to shit on peoples because of "muh snowflakes".
>>
>>62018791
>So by this reasoning, do you believe Raven Guard should not have Flesh over Steel
Probably, just give them a reasoning not to field hordes of tanks, maybe say their tanks can never be scoring or denial units. The Raven Guard had tanks, and nothing inherently prevents them from concentrating said tanks even if it tends to go against their doctrine.

>Thousand Sons should be allowed non-psyker warlords
Definitely, even if the TS were primarily a psyker legion there is nothing that prevents a non-psyker from commanding, perhaps your warlord is just a centurion with no psychic powers, the officer who outranked him died earlier in the campaign and the centurion took over since he was the highest ranking surviving officer.

>Blackshields should be able to take RoWs?
No, not unless you think Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia should take rites of war. They are a separate army with their own benefits and liabilities given through the loss of some equipment and acquisition of other equipment and the loss of rites of wars by the acquisition of wrought by wars.
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>>62018886
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>>62018886
Nah, fuck yourself man.
You asked for people's opinions and you got them, fair and square.
And yeah, if you'd bring your Phosphex-manders to my table I wouldn't play them.
End of line.
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>>62018898
>there is nothing that prevents a non-psyker from commanding
Except that non psykers were never given any significant position of command. The Legion rules are even designed to cause the force to fall apart once the psyker commanders are eliminated, since it is a fundamental part of their doctrine.

Would you also advocate Librarians to be allowed in Space Wolves, since there could be a rune priest who happened to meet a Librarian and learn something from their Librarius?
>>
>>62019047
>Except that non psykers were never given any significant position of command.
Than why are they allowed to take any non-psyker HQs to begin with?

>Would you also advocate Librarians to be allowed in Space Wolves, since there could be a rune priest who happened to meet a Librarian and learn something from their Librarius?
No because rune wolves specifically are librarians.





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