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So, there's no dragon and there's no heist? HOW DO YOU FUCK THIS UP?
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>>61977447
IT SUBVERTED MY EXPECTATIONS
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>>61977473
I EXPECTED SOMETHING GOOD BUT THEY GAVE ME GARBAGE! REVOLUTIONARY!
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>>61977473
Damn. That explains why those stupid cellphone headline suggestions indicated that polygon called it the best adventure path in a long time.

In response, I just now figured out how to stop my phone from putting random headlines in my notifications.
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WOT IF YOU 'AD AN 'EIST THAT WOSN'T AN 'EIST!
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>>61977447
>autism
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This is like being mad that the players handbook doesn't have dungeons or dragons in it
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>>61977871
Fuck you. It's borderline false advertising.
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Wait really? Why the fuck is it called Dragon Heist?
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>>61977909
I heard you're supposed to be looking for stolen amount of gold like a dragon hoards worth.
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Alright, I've briefly looked through the adventure and read some suggestions. It's not TERRIBLE but I'd change a few things:

Make main villains the devil worshipers. They are the superior villains, imo. Well written and brings in a different dynamic.

BUT don't lose the other villains and their lairs. I'm making the keys different and placing the keys in the other lairs.

Also having the party lose the Gold. Just...can't see an easy way for them to get it from the dragon. The end of the campaign is them breaking into the villa to thwart the poisoning/mass murder and stealing back the gold. They take the almost million dragons, save the 99 people and let two children lose their souls (maybe a mission into the Hells to get them back) OR they let it go through...

IF they keep the gold, the Lords come calling for it and take some extra as interest. Still leave players with a few thousand. Enough to get the inn up and running and finance the next adventure.

It can be a good campaign if you alter it a bit. Take advantage of it.
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>>61977972
It's not really a heist unless one of the four villains already has the gold. Also, gold coins in Waterdeep are called "dragons".
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>>61977972
Because of a typo; it was supposed to be called the Flagon Hoist, where the party has to move a giant Flagon blocking the entrance to an unexplored dungeon.
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>>61978052
>Make main villains the devil worshipers. They are the superior villains, imo. Well written and brings in a different dynamic.

Finally! After dragon worshipers, demon worshipers and undead worshipers, it's a nice change of pace
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>>61978052
You don't even get to keep the gold? Fuck that shit.
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>>61978141
I mean, rich nobles who were so greedy in their lust for power, they made a deal with Asmodeus. The souls of their children in exchange for their power and wealth. He takes the oldest, leaves the two youngest. On their 9th birthday, he'll take 'em to Hell. They're working to stop the deal and give him something else: 999,999 million gold and 99 souls. They'll poison a bunch of poor folks and stealing the 500k plus their own and they'll save their two children. Do you stop the murders, thus damning the kids? Do you keep the money, again damning the kids? Do you want to really piss off these people? Do you want to save the kids? And you know you'll play a part in them suffering in hell forever. It sucks, but they're a good villain pair. Mainly because it's sympathetic. There's a reason behind their evil other than ruling the world or bringing into existence some ancient evil.
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>>61977447
i mean, if you want a REAL heist from a REAL dragon that [spoilers]goes horribly wrong in the best ways[/spoiler]..........
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/seeker-of-thrones/
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>>61978182
Hey, I'm all for player agency. If they find a way to do it, great. It's just how I see it going. If they can walk away with 500k, cool. But it makes things a hell of a lot harder. The Lords want the money that was stolen back, and they'll find a way to get it. Everyone wants a piece of the pie. You can't just let that sit in the open. The Zhents, Xana, and everyone will come for it. If they find a way, good luck to 'em.
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>>61978233
i'm sorry guys. i can't spoiler tonight. i'll go home now.
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>>61978252
It's alright.
We still love you, retard
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>>61978263
thanks, shitlord. i'm glad someone does.
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>>61978246
Yeah, player agency is god. maybe they can get the reward by having the faction bling out their home. Speaking of which, I wish they did more with that bit.
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>>61978388
Same. Hey, if they find a way to take the whole almost 1mil, let them have 250k as a reward for returning the 500k+ to waterdeep. Maybe some nice boons or privileges.

Yeah, same. I have to figure that out, I'd love them to be able to really feel like that place is their own, do some cool stuff with it. It'll be good to see what happens with it. My players are vets, but don't play the system. Great RPers, so I think it could be fun. We'll see
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Yeah thinking about changing volo to jarlaxe and have him be more of an ally that betrays the party. It's also annoying how many overleveled npcs drop in to save the day.
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>>61978380
:-*
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>>61978456
That sounds like a good idea. Volo kinda only serves as an ad for Volo's guide, it feels.

Feels kinda shit. "Here's a bunch of bad guys. You can't do shit." Which...would be "realistic" but this is about being a damn hero. Which is why I want to give them an actual heist. Gold gets taken and they have three days to prep for robbing the estate. Seems a better climax.
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>>61978493
The heist also comes up way too late, it should be planned for a bit. Going to make the money already stolen in one of the bad guys lairs and raenar wants the party to steal back his dads cash. Have jarlaxe be working with him and the group and he betrays them after the money is secured. Get rid of the stupid macguffin.
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>>61977659
5e in a nutshell. I like the system but I hate the people making it. So goddamn much.
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>>61977907
>>61978068
>triggered_OP_is_a_faggot.psd
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>>61977447
Does anyone have a pdf of the book yet?
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>>61977447
The currency used in Waterdeep is called a Dragon.

And if this is your first time hearing that... Well, you wouldn't sound dumb because it's a stupid concept and I've never heard of it before either until Crawshit said so
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>>61978246
>You can't just let that sit in the open. The Zhents, Xana, and everyone will come for it. If they find a way, good luck to 'em.
It's almost like actions can have consequences and a plot can write itself.
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>>61978233
>shill six billion demons fag is back
Fuck off.
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>>61980569
>responding to yourself just for more attention
You need to chill, shill.
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>>61980523
I know for a fact it is mentioned in the old 3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book from 2001, and likely existed even before that. So it isn't like they just made something up on the spot. It is an established setting detail.
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>>61978182
You get the gold, and the city it was stolen from (which you live in, and find the gold hidden below) wants it back. They're willing to let the party keep as much as 10% of it (finder's fee, so 50k), but the rest they want returned.

If you don't want to give it back, then the book does say yes, you can attempt to keep it, but you will almost certainly have problems:

>If the characters recover Neverember's hoard and keep it for themselves, word gets out eventually.
>Emissaries of the Harpers, the Lords' Alliance, and the Order of the Gauntlet come to the characters, asking that the gold be returned to Waterdeep. If the characters refuse to give it up, they are stripped of any memberships they might hold in these factions and quickly find themselves in political hot water. The Lords of Waterdeep charge them with the crime of robbery against the city. The characters face up to 1 month of hard labor plus damages equal to the value of the stolen currency plus 500gp. If they try to flee the city, the City Guard apprehends and imprisons them. If they somehow evade the local authorities, the Harpers and agents of the Lords' Alliance pursue them tirelessly.

Note that the robbery charge would be per PC, so they'd imprison you for 500k gold each, technically.

Note also that if you're Zhentarim, Emerald Enclave, Bregan D'aerthe, or generally a faction that wouldn't be associated with Waterdeep that much (Harpers are Harpers, Order of the Gauntlet are all LG types, and the Lords' Alliance is led by Waterdeep), you won't lose your faction memberships. But keeping gold stolen from Waterdeep and staying in Waterdeep are mutually exclusive. If you want your story to be thieves on the run from the law, you can absolutely set things up that way. IF, of course, you accept that good-aligned individuals will most likely be chasing you for it.

And assuming you can find a way to get 500k gold out of Waterdeep anyway at 5th level, short of bags of holding or a portable hole.
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>>61980633
>Note that the robbery charge would be per PC, so they'd imprison you for 500k gold each, technically.
And that's how fractional reserve banking was invented in Faerun.
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>>61980633
>And assuming you can find a way to get 500k gold out of Waterdeep anyway at 5th level, short of bags of holding or a portable hole.
Would 500,000 gold even fit in a portable hole or bag of holding?
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>>61977447
Why is Thanos on this D&D book’s cover ?
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>>61980879
Waterdeep's city council buys their seats, right, or is that Neverwinter?

>city wants their money back
>okay but there'll be strings attached...
>happy merchant.jpg
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>>61980975
Waterdeep's lords are chosen by other lords, with the approval of the open lord. They're also top secret and keep their identities hidden (except for the Open Lord).

>While no Lords were formally named, some individuals became the subject of widespread rumors that could even become a general consensus. The penalty for impersonating a Lord, whether by dressing in a set of their identical clothing or by a false claim was punishable by the imposter's immediate execution.
>The Lords only appeared in public when deliberating on high crimes or when asked to by the lower court but even then only four generally appeared and one was always the Open Lord. All Closed Lords wore black formless masks and robes and spoke through the Open Lord, in order to keep their identities secret.

It has nothing to do with buying seats. You very much cannot buy yourself a lordship. Shit, you can't even buy yourself nobility in Waterdeep unless you're willing to spend years and years working at it, which is time you won't have and wouldn't be accepted from stolen gold anyway.
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>>61981002
>hide the money somewhere they'll never find it
>start visiting all the other merchants and using the money to buy up as much of the city's debt as possible at below-market rates
>but you see, officer, I don't have the money, because I've already spent it all
>I do, however, have all of this debt that the city government happens to owe
>handrubbing intensifies
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>>61981124
They execute you, the end.

This isn't a modern fucking economy.
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>>61981139
Ah, but you see, if they do that, they'll destroy confidence in Waterdeep as being a reliable debtor and thereby assure that nobody will ever lend them money again! Nobody's going to want to lend them money if they think that they'll just get executed rather than repaid.
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>>61977663
I freelance at Polygon.
The reviewers are universally idiots.
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>>61981124
Yeah, they just murder you and start looking for the gold. You hiding it is no different to what Neverember tried, creating the scenario of Dragon Heist.

You have described PART of how you can become a noble, but it's fucking hard. Fuck it, I'll quote it all:

>To put it succinctly: Forget it. Nobility in Waterdeep is a closed shop. Old-money merchant families once conferred noble status on themselves in return for their support of common laws that would bind them as well as the rabble, and their descendants are working very hard to prevent new-money merchants—or anyone else!—from gaining a title. In any event, folks in Waterdeep respect money, not titles, so if you’re the visiting king of Haroondra-Lala, that’s nice—now pay up.
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>>61981217
>The Phull and Zulpair families were the last to be ennobled, and they seem to have managed it by identical methods, to wit:
>1. They succeeded at trade enough to become staggeringly wealthy.
>2. They bought up large amounts of real estate in Waterdeep, especially in North Ward and Sea Ward.
>3. They attended all the revels and acted in a quiet, toadying, subservient manner, offering free coin to help with the troubles discussed by grumbling nobles at said functions.
>4. They very quietly loaned coin to desperate noble houses.
>5. They financially bailed out and furthered the stated aims of a few Masked Lords by cleaning up firetrap warehouses in Dock Ward, fixing the sewers, dredging the harbor, and expanding and repairing the city walls. Then, they allowed the Masked Lords to take all the credit.
>6. They told everyone, over and over again at revels, that they cared deeply for the good of Waterdeep and said often that “We must all think of the good of Waterdeep, so that it will be as great centuries hence as it is now.”
>7. When desperate noble houses discreetly approached them for even more coin than they’d given them before (in step 4), they willingly handed them more, saying, “This should be a gift, not a loan, but not being noble myself, I can’t insult you like that. Now, if we were both noble, all you’d need do would be to hint—and this could always be a gift.”
>8. They started marrying their daughters (made as beautiful as magic could make them, and trained in noble speech and deportment) into noble houses, and accompanied them with staggeringly large dowries that were never actually called dowries or publicly transferred.
>9. They hired spies to learn the identities of one or two of the Masked Lords, and they befriended them, financially helping their businesses.
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>>61981225
>10. They bribed (through intermediaries, of course) some of the disaffected young wastrel nobles to verbally champion their families at revels by “acting as nobles should.”
>11. They bribed (through intermediaries) some servants at revels to remark to other servants that their families “acted as true nobles should.”
>12. They bankrolled some young, disaffected nobles desirous of pursuing their dreams, however foolish or zany their schemes, and befriended them.
>13. They watched for financial troubles among the nobles and sought to repeat step 4, aiming for a repeat of step 7.

>And, all that time, they didn’t build luxury city mansions of their own, didn’t openly challenge any noble, and never openly asked to become noble—or pretended to be noble.
>Eventually, someone facing ruin remembered step 7 and started whispering that these generous families should be ennobled. The Phull and Zulpair families were wise enough to do nothing. They just let it happen.
>As you can see, this plan requires kingdoms full of money (the Zulpairs found a remote island where monsters had devoured a dwarf clan and then perished for lack of food, leaving entire caverns full of mined rubies ownerless) and generations of time, plus not making a single mistake.
>That’s why it’s never been done since. It worked for the Phulls and the Zulpairs (who have been scorned by many nobles since) because they practically bought up all of North Ward between them—and then gave it away, property by property, in the process of winning support for the ennobling of House Phull and House Zulpair.
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>>61981234
>>61981225
>>61981217
>>61981203
>>61981124
So essentially, you have described a very small part of how you become noble. Specifically, steps 2 and 4. But there's far, far more to do than just that, and you would need utterly absurd amounts, far more than 500k would provide you. You'd also have to acquire it by trade and mercantile endeavours as well, or at least be a major trade player, because "looting dungeons" doesn't count for bringing profit into Waterdeep via trade etc. (note that the families in question were already absurdly rich and maintained that all the way through).

Make no mistake, Waterdeep is staggeringly wealthy. They don't need to borrow money from other cities. They're the ones DOING the lending of money to other cities. If you try to extort them for their own money? They will simply have you removed. You're not going to get made a Masked Lord (because you obviously don't give a shit about Waterdeep, just your own wealth), you won't get made a noble (because you don't have enough money, and it's not your money anyway).
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>>61981274
>missing the obvious subtext this badly
I'm talking about acting like a Jew and subverting the government, anon.
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>>61981504
No, I caught it. I decided to ignore it as /pol/ baiting in favour of talking more about the setting and how Waterdeep functions, and why it wouldn’t work.
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>>61978233
This sounds better, but it's still a Pun based on Throne being the capital city of the multiverse.
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>>61978456
>>61978493
That's Forgotten Realms in all its shitty glory though. Overpowered NPC's that make the players feel like supporting cast in their own story.

>>61980633
Speaking of, why the fuck do the Lords of Waterdeep hire 5th level nobodies to get back half a million in stolen gold when they obviously have their own powerful people who could do a much better job.
And we know they have these people because those are the guys that will be hounding the party's ass in the hypothetical example that they steal the gold for themselves.
The premise for the adventure seems terribly shit.
>>
Is there at least some good info on Waterdeep the city in all this? That's what I want. And a good map.
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>>61982056
>why the fuck do the Lords of Waterdeep hire 5th level nobodies to get back half a million in stolen gold when they obviously have their own powerful people who could do a much better job.
Because the PCs happen to be the ones there at the time, presumably. Boots on ground, etc. and they're (also presumably) going to do it anyway, so why not let them? Why divert resources from something else when you have perfectly usable chumps right there?

It's also presumed, though, that the players will by that point in the adventure have joined and be working up the ranks of their respective factions, and will also own property in one of the more affluent areas of Waterdeep (Sea Ward is the richest, followed by North Ward). So they won't be complete nobodies.

Think of it like Eberron: the fame/knowledge of the players is not necessarily commensurate with their actual character level.
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>>61982081
There's a 25-page section on Waterdeep with some reasonably useful information. I think that it does well enough at updating Waterdeep for the 5E setting/date (when coupled with the SCAG anyway), while leaving all the extremely in-depth stuff for previous editions if players really want to look into it.

Specifically you'll want the 3E Waterdeep: City of Splendours, the 2E Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, and the 1E City of Splendours campaign guide. Those should give you basically everything you could possibly want in background. I suppose you COULD start digging into novels at that point, but there's absolutely no need to unless you're anally retentive about getting literally everything accurate.
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>>61977907
It's broken and can't be fixed. Even making new editions won't fix it. Anyone who says otherwise is bad and wrong, so stop supporting lazy companies.
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>>61981225
>>61981234
I kind of want to play/run a game where that can happen - obviously there might have to be a bit more of a condensed timescale and reduced costs, so it might not be set in so massive and powerful city as Waterdeep, but that sort of shenaniganing sounds fun.

Other sorts of manoeuvring and old-style methods of making money would be allowed/encouraged, especially if I was running it, but I'd love to see if players could worm their way into being lords of a city and massively wealthy. Some of those other methods would probably also be more fun to play out - assassination, arson, extortion, fraud and so on (I'd be overjoyed if any player decided to go full Crassus and buy/set buildings burning)
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>>61977447
It's what happens to every game company that becomes big and or successful. Overall quality drops into the gutter as they just coast on their name and past accomplishments.

I haven't bought anything from Wotc for a while and that doesn't look like it will ever change now.
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>>61980604
>Criminal underworld was shaken by what will do gown in history as "the dollar robbery"
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>>61983976
>Not calling it the "Buck Snatch"
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>>61982056
>why the fuck do the Lords of Waterdeep hire 5th level nobodies to get back half a million in stolen gold when they obviously have their own powerful people who could do a much better job.

5th level is pretty tough and its not like they have their level indicated above their heads.
That being said it makes more sense than Silvermain hiring level ONE nobodys to save the ENTIRE PLANET from the death curse in ToA
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>>61986257
>Not the dollerydoo heisteryhoo
>>
Jesus, I've never heard of Waterdeep until recently. That being said, it sounds like one of the worst settings I can think of, and this adventure sounds like it exemplifies all of its issues and is also shit.

It sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare run by shitty rich people in a mad cabal that you will never have the power to overthrow and are always subject to death for living a bountiful, good life or having fun. So just like real life This adventure sounds like you're a lackey with no freedom or adventure, your heist isn't much a heist, and you really gain nothing out of it other than a pat on the back from the asshole nobles.

This does not sound fun, heroic, or, really at all adventurous. This sounds like a shit time and a shit setting, because nobody actually likes dealing with fucking bureaucracies and you'll never overthrow it. And then there's the overpowered OC DONUT STEEL EVERYONE LOVES FORGOTTEN REALMS RIGHT characters that worsen the problem, and it just seems like a whole book about you doing shitty grunt work and sitting on the sideline watching everyone else have fun.

Wizards needs to remember that, while Crawford and Mearls are having their fun bitching on twitter or writing this shit, these are products that are supposed to be fun and supposed to sell. This sounds like it will be neither.
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>>61983067
>Overall quality drops into the gutter as they just coast on their name and past accomplishments.
That's been the case for years now

>I haven't bought anything from Wotc for a while and that doesn't look like it will ever change now.
Same
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>>61977447

There is a dragon. But there is no heist.
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>>61978493
>Feels kinda shit. "Here's a bunch of bad guys. You can't do shit."
Well that's the point. At least it would be if the adventure was written as a real heist. But optimally if you were to rewrite the fucker, the PCs shouldn't be able to fight the big bads in a traditional D&D style, so they have to be sneaky and crafty about getting the gold.
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>>61982056

They didn't. The party gets in on it on their own while the City Watch constantly tells them to let the Watch handle it.
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>>61987192
Waterdeep and Skullport are actually great.
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>>61978233
>kill 6 billion demons
I have better taste than that.
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>>61981002
the masked lords/open lord shit is probably some of the stupidest shit Greenwood shoved into his setting, secondly only to the incest orgies
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>>61980604
Detail being the keyword. It's misleading when the game has Dragons in the name and actual dragons exist in the setting.
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>>61982222
>Because the PCs happen to be the ones there at the time, presumably.
Nice gets, but really, what is Force Grey and all the forces of the Cloaks doing at that point? Snoring drunk at the Yawning Portal, or what the fuck?
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>>61987550
Of which Skullport is 10x better than Waterdeep in almost every way.
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>>61988033
I was expecting it to look like a skull. I am disappointed.
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>>61987192
>supposed to sell. This sounds like it will be neither.
I guarantee it will fly off the shelves and be one of their best selling products of 2018/2019.
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>>61987983
Didn’t Force Grey get sent to Chult?
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>>61988467
To the Tomb of Annihilation? Chult, where low-level PCs are also supposed to be saving the world while the big boys are doing what?
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>>61977447
But the devs criticized Doonil Blumpf with a parody character it must be good!
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>>61980633
>Steal 500,000g, hire your own faction, muscle out all other factions and take over their million-gold businesses.
I mean I know the developers are socialists so economics is beyond them, but come on.
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>>61988941
Joke's on them then, 'cause he'll be a valuable ally in my game.

>leftists can't play the meme game

>>61989000
Not over, not under, but exactly 9000. Well played.
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>>61988599

>god why don't the PCs ever get to do anything with all these powerful NPC gods everywhere!
>fuck why aren't these powerful NPC gods solving all of the problems my PC is being asked to solve

You can fuck RIGHT off.
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>>61977473
And that's a good thing
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>>61988941
They did? Deets please.
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>>61988328
>Waterdeep doesn't look like deep water
>Baldur's Gate doesn't look like a gate
>Luskan isn't a lusk
Fuck this stupid shit.
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>>61987192
>Jesus, I've never heard of Waterdeep until recently.
where have you been the last 40 years?
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>>61977447

relevant railroad rock as always
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>>61978052

This, plus the following

If the party covertly accesses the vault without anyone noticing, unless the players flash the cash, don't follow the module's instruction for the city to magically find out they have the money, let them get away with it if they successfully pull of the heist without any witnesses.

Don't put the pic related apache helicopter elf, we're here to play dnd, not have a gender studies lecture.

And if your players obtain the rock early, don't follow the abysmal railroad rock instructions and mindwipe them if they get the rock early before chapter 4. Simply give them experience ot chapter 4, give them downtime until them, and let them use the prior encounter chains to sabatoge the villain as to slow them down so they do not catch up.


see railroad rock here too>>61990273
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>>61988941
unironically based
I'm gonna buy this for sure now
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>>61987688
>incest orgies

You say as if this is a bad thing.
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>>61987688
>incest orgies

Wut. Elaborate.
>>
>>61982931
There's a game called Houses of the Blood that is about this and various courtly intrigue. It's a good game but the author is a huge prick and so far up his own ass (including essays in the book itself Palladium-style) that I can't really blame anyone who sees the name and immediately drops the book.

Shame too because the game itself is well-design and fun.
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>>61987688
>incest orgies

I'm going to need more details. For reasons.
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>>61993091
>>61993367
> * Bi-sexuality is normal (and yes, this means the men as well as the women)
> * "Revels" (sex orgies) are normal
> * "Festhalls" (brothels) are in every small village and visiting them is normal way to spend evening.
> * Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.
> * Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"
> * Public city-wide orgies are the way to celebrate major holidays
>
>All of this is confirmed by Ed Greenwood himself, from Ed's responses to fan queries on the Candlekeep forum. It's also all completely, 100% canon thanks to Ed's ludicrously favorable contract; other writers can try to dance around the creepy shit, but they can't outright contradict anything. In short, the Forgotten Realms are Ed Greenwood's magical realm cleaned up by TSR and later Hasbro for general consumption
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>>61978219
They made the deal in the first place, why are you even considering not saving those 99 people AND getting the gold?
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>>61982268
>1E City of Splendours
City of Splendours is 2e, the 1e Waterdeep thing is City System, which goes with Waterdeep & The North.
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>>61977663
I filter out Polygon results in Google.

>>61981213
Is Polygon just in it for the money or do they believe what they write?
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>>61993466
Only normalfags and SJWs have a problem with this.
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>>61978219
What does Asmodeus need with a bunch of gold?
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>>61994095
He's Asmodeus, he's inspiring greed and suffering for the sake of it.
Alternatively, he's making a bunch of fiddles.
>>
>>61988429
That and Return to Return to Ravenca 2: Electric boogaloo will sell out all game stores everywhere and ensure healthy profits for the stores WOTC has been fucking over to continue running for years to come!

Seriously modern D&D despite it's more mainstream place in culture has never been as shit, there doesn't seem to be much building and sharing of modules or collaborative projects and WOTC can't even release books in a timely fashion and quality both in content and the physical paper.
>>
>>61994856
tbf, Ravenloft is a better campaign setting in every way
>>
>>61993466
That's awesome. God bless Ed "Two girls at the same time" Greenwood.
>>
Wait, there is seriously no heist? That was literally my only reason to pick this up. (I currently run Shadowrun and Blades in the Dark, I kind of have a heist fixation).
>>
>>61995881
There CAN be a heist. I mean, technically it could be seen as a heist. Gotta find a stone to get location of safe, find keys, evade everyone else on the gold rush, and then BS/fight your way into the safe. Everyone saying there's NO heist is kinda BS
>>
>>61978219
What we gotta do is kill the kids and Soul Cage them. That buys us buys us time to get them to a Divine Lawyer. Or an Infernal one who isn't working for Asmodeus, I know a guy.
>>
>>61996201
That...might work
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>>61996201
So...devil comes for their souls 9 days after Founder's day. So...kill the kids before hand! Trap their souls until such a time they can be rescued or something done to protect them. Guy pretends to be worshiper of Lathander, maybe he'd watch the kids for a bit?
>>
So who has a pdf of this shit?
>>
>>61996002
Yeah that sounds pretty heist-y.
>>
>>61996668
It's on 5etools, just read it there
>>
>>61996963
I mean, I don't know how they don't see it as a heist? It's also partly a treasure hunt, so I get it. But, damn, it's not that fucking hard. It's a heist. Just enjoy it, it's worth playing.
>>
>>61996668
mageguru and some other named anons in the pdf share thread have hd scans but they're withholding them until the street release date because "reasons"
>>
>>61978246
I once jokingly said it but now I wanna say it for real. Steal enough gold to go buy enough bags of holding to lug 500k gold. Go to Sigil. Invest in local business, and eventually open a cafe.
>>
>>61994095
gotta pay Mammon somehow, and he won't take more souls like the other lords. He has a hankering only coins can satisfy.
>>
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>>61990273
Jesus Christ that is terrible adventure design. Like, really, really awful design. Who the fuck wrote this?

This is like Grade 6-level railroading, Mary Sue-ness and gonzo-stupid magic items all rolled into one thing.
>>
>>61977447
This is "The Hour of the Dragon" all over again....
>>
>>61977447
>So, there's no dragon and there's no heist?
Wait till you see Dungeon of the mad mage...
>>
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Don't suppose anyone has a download link?
>>
>Reading introduction
>includes both dragons and a heist
wtf is this some kind of weird reverse psychology
>>
>>61989236
Well, it's a good question, BECAUSE there's so many goddamn high level NPCs. Why isn't Elminster saving the world when it's his literal only job? Or Khelben, or the fifty bajillion named NPCs that can do the job better. Or the faceless ones that pursue fifth level parties, why aren't they dealing with these fifth-level adventures?

He's saying it's dickish to wait until the adventurers try to steal the gold to use these high level groups as the naughty stick. Literally where were they this whole adventure? Waiting to kill the PCs for theft once they did the job? It's annoying.
>>
>>61998369
>Why isn't Elminster saving the world when it's his literal only job? Or Khelben, or the fifty bajillion named NPCs that can do the job better.
The supposed reason is that if Elminster wanders off to deal with threat X, all of his enemies are going to notice he's distracted and start breaking out their own nefarious plots. This works better the further back you go, because there are fewer named characters and they tend to be not so high level. If you have a look in Heroes' Lorebook, the named NPC book for late 2e, you'll notice that quite a few of them are only mid-levels. None of the main characters of the Finder's Stone series top level 8, for example, and that series has them beating up Moander twice.
>>
>>61989502
https://youtu.be/NanqvM6aOxQ

2:47
>>
>>61980897

>500,000 coins
>50 coins weigh a pound
>10,000 pounds of coins
>bag of holding can carry 500 pounds

No.
>>
>>61978027
There's also an actual dragon guarding it, and tons of people looking to steal it. OP obviously didn't read it, since both dragons and heists figure prominently.
>>
>>61998369
>Or Khelben
Because he's been fucking dead for over a century at this point.

And one of the reasons Elminster isn't saving the world as much any more is because, and this is outright stated in both Dragon's Heist and in the Death Masks novel, the Chosen of Mystra are getting weaker. This is for a couple of reasons (bodies wearing out and needing to take new ones which they might not want to do since they're stealing them from others; plus Mystra is forcibly lessening their powers for her own reasons), but Laeral is called out in Dragon's Heist as declining and hiding the extent of it. She's still extremely powerful, as is Elminster, but they're being more stealthy now, and looking at ways they can arrest their decline (e.g. Elminster experiments with spellfire and "weave work" instead of spells, Laeral is relying more on magical items, and Storm is doing more fighting/blade training than spells).

This doesn't explain all the high level characters who've cropped up over the years, true. But it's a reason for Mystra's Chosen.
>>
>>61977447
>Ocean's eleven doesn't play on a coast
>The Bank Job isn't about my first year as a finance manager
>The Italian Job isn't about Pizza OR Lasagna
>The title of a story has to reflect the content LITERALLY
Now that is why they never invited you to the parties anon.
>but those are movies we are on /tg/
I also rarely encounter any Dragons in a D&D game or have Cybernetics made of actual Chrome even though it's a term used for it in some systems. If you want to play a literal Dragon Heist it's more of a one-shot adventure stealing from a dragon and doesn't need a whole fucking book.
>>
>>62000209
These people really are pathetic.
>>
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>>62001418
But don't worry dude lmao SJWs in your hobby won't change it, just play something else xD
>>
>>62001542
That's right shitlord, play something else, you're not allowed to play dnd anymore :^)
>>
>>61978434
The boon the book says to give is a tenth, 50k. I can see it going up to 100k because adventure but maaan. There is no way the IRS would let you keep that much in embezzled taxes.
>>
>>62001418
>>62001542
They're being pathetic on their own time. My games are my own and there's nothing they can do about it. Fuck'em. Make Shillari the main villain of the adventure if their attitudes bother you. Still the last medium where you can do whatever the fuck you want in your own games.

Now in movies, video games and literature it's a more serious problem...
>>
>>61993466
not calling you out, but source?
>>
>>62001799
I fucking wish this was satire.
>>
>>62001872
I can still call them pathetic for inserting their stupid politics when they just didn't need to. And it's not on 'their own time', this is a product meant for people to buy and fuck 'em, I won't. WoTC is done getting my money. There are better RPs out there and people are realising this. I hope they crash and burn.
>>
>>62001898
Nothing satirical here, Mearls is going to come into your home and take your books. Don't use genderfluid elves in your setting? Crawford will shatter your dice with his bare hands.
>>
>>61977473
FORGED A NARRATIVE
>>
>>62002066
>in a game going for 2 years
>newest (though its still been a year) player asks me how gay people are treated in setting
>'oh fuck this is how it ends'
>figure I might as well go down with the ship
>explain, short version, that procreation is important, getting those 3+ kids in your family is a big deal, being gay is, socially, seen as immature
>uncomfortable silence
>'that's kinda neat. alight'.
Mearls and co. have made me afraid of basic questions at my tables, and I am furious that the seeds of self-doubt have been planted so.
>>
>>61981213
Do Polygon even pay their freelancers that well? On that note, how the hell hasn't that company gone belly-up yet?
>>
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>>61977663
>reading Polygon
>>
>>62002198
They don't pay their freelancers at all.
>>
>>61990057
Wait, there wasn’t any cane in Citizen Kane.
>>
>>61998163
Alright, can I get some info on that?
>>
>>61977447
So, there's no stream and no eyes? HOW DO YOU FUCK THIS UP?
>>
>>62001898
>be creative director of 5e
>go on twitter and tell everyone that you aren't going to do your job because your knees are soggy
>face literally no consequences for this
>continue to shit on the fans with absolutely terrible UAs (which are sometimes delayed and sometimes nonexistant) despite constantly stating you totally have a dearth of material ready
>even outright lie that Artificer (you know, that class that goes in the book that was already released?) is finally getting an update two months in a row
>continue to face no consequences
5e could have been so much more if it weren't headed by two of the most incompetent people on the planet.
>>
>>61990273
That's some disgusting 1984 shit. Honestly can't believe someone actually approved that.

"Are your players creative and lucky?
Well ensure they never step out of line again mind control them and memory wipe their ass
Where everything is plot hammers and railroads, they'll be singing along or get shocked in the jibblies."
>>
>>62002478
Or just be a good DM and do what good DMs have done forever and adjust the elements of modules that they don’t like instead of following them slavishly like an automata instead of a free thinking human being?
>>
>>62002664
Yeah the book should have included instructions on how to infect the players at your table with AIDS, too. Good DMs would just ignore that part, of course, so it would be fine.
>>
>>62002664
>Just do everything yourself!

"Next up on dnd adventure chains, you rewrite half the module and pay us to play it!"
>>
>>62002664
I'd rather be a good DM and never buy and run trash like that in the first place.
>>
>>62002664
Fuck off. I'm not paying money to do the writer's jobs for them.
>>
>>62002664
Listen, if it was amateur hour and released for free, I could see that argument holding merit, but it's not, and it doesn't.
>>
>>62002761
But anon, all 5e modules are free
>>
>>62002793
Free of quality, maybe.
>>
>>62002793
It's sad that this one isn't even worth anyone's time to read it.
>>
If you’ve ever ran a module verbatim you’re a dog shit DM. If I want a script ran for me I have computer games for that.
>>
>>61990273
>tsundere stone of mindfucking
What a shitshow.
>>
>>61988328

It has spooky magic skulls that fly around and sometimes eat souls. IIRC, the result of a hilariously failed attempt at lich-dom by some wizards.

Probably inspired by Lankhmar, where there were similar spooky magic skulls.
>>
>>62003250
They've been phoning it in for years now, what did you expect.
>>
>>61980897
Volume wise, a portable hole should be able to handle 500,000 gold pieces.
>>
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>>62002478
>get shocked in the jibblies."
1984 had rats eating your face.

>mfw SJWs at WotC think that using the wrong pronoun makes you a Nazi
>but forcefully mindwiping your PCs is great roleplaying!

The cognitive dissonance should have given them brain hemorrhaging by now.
>>
>>62005148
Here's a question; does mind-wiping a tranny make them forgot they want to be the opposite sex?
>>
>>62005460
Depends does electroshock work?
>>
>>61988941
Holy fuck, that sounds gay as hell.
>>
>>62002664

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Oberoni_Fallacy

If I have to change the base product, that doesn't make the base product good
>>
>>61990273
>enough prescience to realize that the characters are destined to find it
>doesn't want to be found too easily, though

You see for stones, it's all about the thrill of the chase!

Or it would be a chase, except for all the mindrape happening.

The writers need to be fired.
>>
>>61980633
oh shit nigga
i ain't looting bid dady Ns loot cache and not give it back to his homies in the Lords Alliance
>>
>>61977447
>tfw the current dm of my saturday group dropped TOA for us to play thissun
>>
>>61990273
You know what the worst part of this is? The fact that 5e is the newbie edition. The edition built ground up to be the gateway for people into the hobby. Shit like this will never be addressed, because WotC is marketing 5e exclusively to people who don't know any better. They don't ever have to make good product, just shiny, gold foil-wrapped turds that draw a fresh crowd.
Gods, the grogs were right. We're fucked.
>>
>>62002300
Dude, don't do work for free. Ever.
>but muh exposu
Don't do work for free. Ever.
>>
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>>61990273
>The stone doesn't want to be found too easily, though
>>
>>61980633
This sounds drastically more fun than anything in the adventure.
>>
>>62005460
It would actually be a good way to tell legit ones from trender scum.

>>62007256
You mean how 2e was made to be easy as a gateway?
You mean how 3e was made to be easy as a gateway?
You mean how 4e was made to be easy as a gateway?
>>
>>62007320
What fucking editions of what fucking games are you talking about, because surly you aren't suggesting that D&D 3.5 was designed to be easy for beginners to pick up.
>>
>>61978233
Or just Thorin's Fourteen
>>
>>62007406
3e and 5e fans both would tell you that yes, it totally was, because of "simple fighters"
>>
>>62008062
Nobody gives a shit what 3.5 fans think and I'd love to see you try to get /5eg/ to tell you 3.5 was designed for beginners.
>>
>>62008016
Is that just a reference to the hobbit, or is there some actual written up adventure that I could use for ideas?
>>
>>62002717
Ah, I see you've read B1.
>>
>>62001542
>have you considered making your drow evil and good at sneakiness because they worship Lolth?

yes, yes we have.
>>
>>62007290
like any young lady, it has to think about its reputation. even if you want him hard, gotta wait til date three.
>>
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>>62001542
>>
>>62012642
>Young for her position.
>Attractive.
>Hand-picked by fucking Khelben Blackstaff.
>Uses ALL the magic against them foes of Waterdeep.
Jesus Christ.
>>
>>62012642
> calls an npc a mary sue
> it has stats, you can kill it
>>
>>62012642
>black woman with cornrows

oh no no no no
>>
>>62012742
yeah but she's black
>>
>>62012694
>>62012642
She wasn't hand-picked by Khelben, the book is deceptive about that.

She was hand-picked by the staff containing fragments of Khelben's intelligence, personality, and mind. Said staff has a nasty habit of trying to take control of her, too.
>>
>>62012742
>Implying 5 level 5 characters can kill a wizard with forcecage.
>>
>>62001542

>letting the opinions of other ruin your own fantasy world

can't imagine being that cucked.
>>
>>61988328
You gotta turn your head a bit and squint.
>>
>>62012806
A group of players bound and determined to do it could do so pretty reliably with a druid and four rogues, as long as either she doesn't have mage armor up or the druid wins initiative.
>>
For those curious on how Waterdeep has changed.
>>
I was going to also throw up skullport, but it's a tiny bit too big for 4chan. So here have a link to it and undermountain as well.
https://mega.nz/#F!lM81SKyT!bOEFXdyxWUsQnWRJmsgTtA
>>
>>62013145
You can delete it, but I will always know your shame, anon.
Also thank you.
>>
>>62012642
What the fuck is this garbage NPC doing in an adventure for Level 1-5 PCs?!? What a fucking waste of space.

I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my order now. I don't need shit like this, I need a good Waterdeep adventure.
>>
So are there any good heist adventures anyone can recommend? A fun heist is literally all I've ever wanted to run.
>>
>>62013265
Heh.
You're welcome buddy, honestly I don't know how much good it will do anyone, but I know among my friends even when we do occasionally run new adventure books we adapt it to older lore, since the newer stuff just ain't for us.
>>
>>62014259
Go pick up Blades in the Dark.
>>
>>62013145
You forgot Undermountain: The Lost Level, Trobriand's Graveyard, Maddgoth's Castle and Stardock.
>>
>>62014291
Thanks, I'll check it out
>>
>>62014315
Lost Level, Maddgoth's Castle, and Stardock added.
Trobriand's Graveyard should be in the Undermountain 2 pdf.
>>
>>62014235
Welcome to the Forgotten Realms where there will always be at least a hundred NPCs higher level than you. Even when you're in the double digits. Basically every NPC that's stated at the end of the book is CR 5 or above.
>>
>>62012642
Is it normal for 30 year olds to become level 18 wizards in the Forgotten Realms? That's some Dragon Ball Z level of progression of power.
>>
>>62014532
Cadderly, the main character of the Cleric Quintet, managed to become a 20th level cleric by then. But he's also Deneir's top man on the planet, so he doesn't count as normal.
>>
>>62014532
The stat books never match how they are in the novels. In early books wizards had to fuck with teleport circles and strain themselves greatly to do anything with long range teleportation, elminster can get fucked over by not being used to his new scroll case so he can't cast quickly, etc.
>>
>>62014579
From what I understand, clerics can get empowered to very high levels if their deity chooses to empower them considering the lolipope in Eberron is level 18 or something.
>>
>>62014579
>>62014643
Having a rat through Heroes' Lorebook, there's also: Gwydion, 20th-level paladin of Torm, age 32; Keane, 18th-level wizard, early 30s; Ruha, 16th-level wizard, mid-20s. Most of the other high-level characters are middle-aged, one of the Seven Sisters or Chosen of Mystra, or both.
>>
>>61977473
NOW WHERE'S MY PIZZA ROLL?!
>>
Also Vajar makes tons of mistakes and she and Laeral hate each other.

She Nearly allowed the Xanathar to assassinate most of the lords of Waterdeep.
>>
>>61982757
>so stop supporting lazy companies.
The more lgbtqqpewpew wotc goes, the less popular they become. The good thing from all of this is more of /the/ discovering more systems outside of DND
>>
>>62013086
Waterdeep seems like a Sigil wannabe. Anything is possible! Wild West in just one city! It's fucking retarded and shatters suspension of disbelief.
>>
>>62014854
Are you talking new waterdeep or old waterdeep? Because old waterdeep had a lot of possibilities compared to most places of the FR, but not to the extremes of sigil. The fact it actually had laws and explanations of how shit functioned in the city certainly helped make Waterdeep more believable than the clusterfuck that is Sigil though.

Also Waterdeep came around long before sigil did.
>>
>>62006745
>Or it would be a chase, except for all the mindrape happening.
>The writers need to be fired.
Couldn't agree more.
>>
>>62014532
That sort of always happens to young player characters unless you take huge downtimes.
>>
>>62014235
>>62014492
Also Dragon Heist is meant to be part one in a two-book adventure, much like HotDQ/RoT. So there's a lot of set up of later stuff in the module.
>>
>>62014532
Vajra is somewhat cheating because the Blackstaff has part of Khelben's mind along with the minds of all the other Blackstaffs since him. And it is not only capable of teaching her (with its INT 22, WIS 18 and CHA 18), but it's actually smarter than she is. She's essentially a combination of natural talent plus being speed-taught by the staff, and the staff has a lot of experience to draw on.

That being said, if you start with characters who're young and a campaign only runs for a year or two of actual in-universe time, you'll potentially have 15th level 20 years olds (e.g. if you do Rise of Tiamat, for example).





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