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Why do martials dump Int? Remember Warlord from 4e? Now that was how you played a martial.
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>>62426638
Because intelligence, charisma, and strength are weak stats unless your class uses them
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>>62426638
>Why do martials dump Int?
Because D&D's game mechanics have strongly encouraged it for decades
>>
Because there is, for the most part, no reason not to. The setup of the ability scores in D&D was a mistake, and dividing intelligence and wisdom, especially so, since as far as I can tell the only purpose it served was giving clerics and magic-users a different prime requisite.
>>
DnD was a mistake
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>>62426638
Because 4e knew how to design Martials anon. Remember in that edition Wisdom was the fighters mental stat of choice.
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>>62426638

>Not dumping Cha.
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>>62426638
There are people who have masturbated to this image's face.
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>>62426638
I need the name of this artist, I remember viewing his gallery once and it was hilarious seeing huge-chested girls in various stages of undress with that ridiculous expression.
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>>62426638
Listen, you can either have dump stats or MAD shit
>>
*sips*
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>>62426638

Because playing a martial class intelligently takes actual intelligence, and we're all a bunch of fucking idiots. Magic classes are easier to be "creative" with.

> be me, military-background fighter boi

> be intelligent fighter boi

> be able to figure out when to strike and when to fall back

> have to think irl about strategies

> be not me, wizard

> idiot irl

> 20 intelligence, thinks he's hot shit

> still just uses Fire Bolt/Ball as the solution to any problem

> doesn't have to think irl
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>>62426929
I mean

Well

The shirt doesn't help

And I'd prefer if there were eyebags and if the eyes had swirls or something in them
>>
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>"By Jove! The flagitious foe is assailing me and my fellowship! Quickly, allies! To arms!"
>weakly attempts to slap enemy with giant battleaxe
>fails miserably due to weak noodle-arms
>dies
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>>62426941
>I need the name of this artist
>>
"Martials" don't dump INT. Powergaming murderhobos dump whatever stat doesn't fit their pauldron-core power fantasy because God forbid they play a character instead of a weapon in sapient form.
Kindly be a faggot somewhere else.
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>>62427111
>>62426941
>>62426638

"I love drawing bodacious babes but have no idea how to draw a human face"
>>
Bad game design, logically intelligence also helps you fight better but there are zero mechanical incentives for not dumping stats so you are effectively stunting yourself if you dont overspecialize

>>62426929

You say that as if its such a shocking thing to fap to
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>>62426638
In 3.pf int is not dumped because of the ce tier. Wis depends.
In 3.5 you had cha builds that needed a 15.
The problem is MADness, not dumping. You are an imbecile that knows nothing.
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>>62426638
Thicker skull means me can get hit in head more
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>>62426929
It wasn't to the face, it was to the tits.
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>>62426638
Because stats are limited and at least be good at what you can do. Also most martial classes get nothing from Int

>Inb4 be creative
Something something mother may I?
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>>62428490
>In 3.pf int is not dumped because of the ce tier.
So people didn't dump INT because of garbage feats that were irrelevant on several different levels? Improved Trip is 'good', but only if you specialized in tripping. Everything else including Combat Expertise itself was shit.
>You are an imbecile that knows nothing.
Stop looking in a mirror.
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>>62427942
>>Dump whatever
Man, youre so lucky to manage to either roll all stats the same or achieve the same stats with point buy, because the rest of the mortal beings we somehow always get a score that is below the rest and sadly have to assign it to some stat which happens to not be useful to the class you're playing
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>>62426929
Well yeah. The face a chick makes after you donkey punch them is pretty hot.
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>>62428490
>The problem is MADness, not dumping. You are an imbecile that knows nothing.

Multiple Attribute Dependency isn't the problem. The problem is that class widely vary in the amount of stats they are dependent on to function. Single Attribute Dependent and Two Attribute Dependent classes tend to be easier to optimize because so many stats can be dumped in favor of the focused stats.
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>>62427989
In the case of Sader, it's mocking the original figure.
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>>62427989
The faces are clearly intentional.
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>Well, anon, you have 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 and 8, how do you allocate your bonuses?
Well, the 8 goes to the Stat my class uses the leat
>MINMAXER!!!!!! STOP HAVING DUMP STATS!!!
Nice, does that mean I get a 15 to everything?
>>
So what do you guys think of Pillars of Eternity's attributes? Basically they all help every class in some way.

>Might: increase ALL damage and healing
>Constitution: increases HP
>Dexterity: increases you action speed and dodge a bit
>Perception: increases accuracy and dodge a bit
>Intelligence: increases area of effect and effect duration

There's a bit more but that's the gist of it. I liked it as it made all points you put into a character have an effect in combat. Though it did result in Intelligence being an important stat for barbarians.

Probably can't translate it directly to tabletop though since it would require a bunch of specific calculations and measuring and I doubt you can get enough people who enjoy that into the same group.
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>>62429142
>stat my class uses the least
This isn't determined by class it's determined by roleplaying and that's why people would REEEE at you over it. A stat is only secondary to you if you make it secondary. You could make a charming, smarmy Fighter, so CHA wouldn't be a dump stat for him. You're looking at it purely as numbers, so you're a rollplayer, not a roleplayer (at least by appearances thusfar) and are inviting all the REEE you get.
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>>62429267
Purely mechanically it's fine, could be better, but because of the way PoE handles stats in conversations it really fucks up some concepts. All wizards who want to drop big fireballs are muscle wizards, for instance.
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>>62426638
Mine don't, I usually pick Cha as my martial dump stat.
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>>62429288
>This isn't determined by class it's determined by roleplaying
Wrong.
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>>62429288
>roleplaying
Is not, classes get features that most of the time are key'd on stats, if a stat literally gives you nothing, that's considered a stat that your classes uses the least.

Int for example in 5e Monk, monk needs Dex, Wis, Con (to survive), Str (to some maneuvers). Cha and Int are only there for skills, and monk doesn't, per se, get skills that key on Int, so which stat do you think will be the least useful?

True that if you decide to use Int you can use it with roleplaying, but that depends on your GM rather than knowing beforehanded what you can do with it (because not stated in the rules).
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>>62429302
You deserve all the REEE you get so don't come complaining to us. I do hope however you find the sort of group that's cool with your style of playing; everyone deserves to have fun.
>>
Paladin here, I picked Wis, I'm incredible naive and trusting, also I give sencond and third chances (depending on the crime though) because I'm kind and generous.

People want me to play like Judge Dreed though.
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>>62429310
The problem is you think I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. I assure you; I'm not trolling or baiting. A character's background, traits, and personality should construct the framework of how you structure your stats. Sure, you probably shouldn't make an effort to gimp yourself actively, as a naturally strong person will gravitate towards physical things, or at the very least someone average would become strong while learning to fight. But looking at INT and saying "this is useless to my character" is only playing the numbers, not the character. If said character has a reason to be less intelligent or charismatic then fine, but just making the attributes the only source you use to inform your decisions about what goes where is not typically indicative that you're building a character instead of a stat block.
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>>62429290
>because of the way PoE handles stats in conversations it really fucks up some concepts
yeah it seems that if you want to make a character who is good at something you have to go pretty hard into it. The only thing I researched before I started over is the general thresholds that your stats need to be to get pass speech/event checks.

I thought that since all stats helped improve my character I could spread my stats out but it turns out you need to have about 16+ in a stat before you can start using it outside of combat.
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>>62429342
>this is useless to my character
*this is useless to my class, sorry
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>>62429342
>I'm not trolling or baiting
So instead you're retarded, thanks for letting us know.
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>>62429374
If that's what you think, Salty McSalterton, rock on with your bad self.
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>>62429342
I'm currently playing a Scourge Aasimar Sun Soul Monk I know what it means not having optimal stats for your class, I tend to think of a concept first and then build the char towards it rather than picking the class first. But I had my fair share of GMs you hate "dump" stats when you have to put your 8 or whatever somewhere I'm >>62429310
>>62429142
Just in case
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>>62429481
>you hate
WHO* hate
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>>62429310
>Int for example in 5e Monk, monk needs Dex, Wis, Con (to survive), Str (to some maneuvers). Cha and Int are only there for skills, and monk doesn't, per se, get skills that key on Int, so which stat do you think will be the least useful?
Monks do not in fact need strength, and do in fact have skills that key on intelligence. Either is a valid nondump choice, though they're all way less than primary importance.
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>>62429500
>do not in fact need strength
Athletics, as a martial artist you want to do martial arts, shoving, grappling, tripping, etc

I dunno why a motherfucking martial artist isn't good at those by default but WotC has to Wotc I guess
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>>62429541
Fuck, also Jumping that is key'd on Str and Str only, you could run at mach 35 doesn't matter, you jump your Str in ft
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>>62427989
You can't possibly be this new, anon.
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>>62426638
Because that is heavily incentivized by the system.
Have you tried not playing DnD?
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>>62429541
>>62429546
>shoving, grappling, tripping, jumping
Do you think a monk would be better at most of those things than, say, a spartan? Who I use of an example of high strength and athletics at least by their dramatic portrayal.

Maybe tripping.
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>>62429597
>Do you think a monk would be better at most of those things than, say, a spartan?
Fuck yes I do.
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>>62429597
>Do you think a monk would be better at most of those things than, say, a spartan?
Yes, because technically a martial artist could be a Spartan, pankration is a martial art after all
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>>62429610
well judging by the uh, strength of your reaction, you probably don't have much respect for strength at all beyond it's capacity to lift heavy things.
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>>62429610
>monk
>a voluntary outcast whose life is a regimented worship of God
>practices in no martial skills
>judiciously study theology
>some are renowned for their crafts, with many monastic orders brewing the finest ales in the world to this very day
Vs
>spartans
>trained to be soldiers from birth
>runts of the litter literally thrown off a cliff
>etymology of the word "spartan", meaning sparse, militant, and strong, has its origins in the city-state of sparta
>renowned the world over for shit talking skills
>opposed dictators who outnumbered them 20 to 1
>told said dictators they would need 100 to 1 advantage to best sparta
>proceeded to prove it

>MOnKs ArE beTTeR FiGHterS tHAn SPaRtaNS!
Are you one of those weebshits that thinks "monk" means kungfu sifu?
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>>62429288
>dnd
>roleplay
pick one
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>>62429597
>Description says Monks are the epitome of physical perfection
>That Monks are deadly weapons with their body able to do shit no one else can do
Yes, going by that I expect them to be better than a Spartan, unless the Spartan works as a Monk (Sohei)

PS: Don't read PF2e description on Monks, it will only make you more mad when you play it
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>>62426638
If that doesn't lead to porn u will come to your house and shit on your dice pouch
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>>62429665
To be fair, if monk is being used as a class, kung fu is exactly what that entails. The kind of monastics you're thinking of is an NPC cleric. Why do you think monk class is all unarmed combat instead of prayer ritual?
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>>62429665
You’re drinking the Spartan kool-aid pretty hard there Anon.
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>>62429288
>Cha freighter
Let me know how talking down enemies goes. I'll be over here with my 8 into selling a lack of education or a narrow focus or some other bullshit to explain why are mathematical not doing the humm things.

Your stats are not the beginning and end of how your character acts.
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>>62429481
Meanwhile this fucking shithole of a site has poisoned me with fear. If I don't do the optimal thing then I'm left in the dust. I want to play races that don't give me plus two's. But screw that I'll never hit anything and might as well not even be there.

This is what TG has made me believe
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>>62427989
the artist actually traces bodies, it's really obvious when you see his other works.
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>>62429691
What further damage could they possibly do to monks?
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>>62429541
A monk can do all of those things if you want to and don't need superlative atrength for any of it.
>>62429546
Even the jumping.>>62429730
>Why do you think monk class is all unarmed combat
Why do you? Because 5e's monk is notoriously not all anything.
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>>62429288
>Look at my Cha fighter
>Nice, here's my Bard, you're going to love this shit, this is my base form just higher Cha than you, then on top of that I have Diplomacy as class skill, and then Class features that rise that shit even further beyond...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
So how it feels to be invalidated once again, Gohan, I mean Fighter?
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>>62429832
That's... That's not what he meant, anon. He was saying that your attribute scores should not bind you to play a certain character portrayal unless that's something you want to do - sure, trying to portray an Int 8 Barbarian as a tactical genius is going to furrow eyebrows, but there's nothing wrong with describing your 11 Charisma fighter as "charming."
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>>62429808
>and don't need superlative atrength
We're discursing DUMP stats, I didn't mean you had to put an 18 on it, but you shouldn't treat it as a dump stat (8) if you want to jump or do martial art stuff like shoving/tripping/grappling
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>>62429808
I meant primarily, not all. I don't play 5e either, but the archetypal image of a monk class is some kind of asian martial artist.
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>>62426732
This, but also: STR/INT/CHA are generally proactive stats, you won't use them unless you choose to. You choose to make an attack, gather information, or influence people. DEX/CON/WIS are generally reactive stats, you're going to be forced to use them whether you choose to or not. You're forced to dodge an attack, tough out sickness, and get gut feelings.
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>>62429804
You know, I've seen this said before. Out of genuine curiosity is there actual proof to it like that pegasus guy or is it just that obvious in his other pieces?
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>>62430095
There is a noticeable dip in quality when he draws something that would not have a traceable reference, and everything that is “really good” falls within a 5 minute search on Google Images.
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>>62426732
>Paladin uses 2 of 3 week stats.
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>>62430137
*weak stats
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>>62430137
>he forgot to read UNLESS YOUR CLASS USES THEM
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>>62430137
Did you stop reading two thirds of the way through that single sentence?
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>>62430137
Is this what happens if you dump stat int out of char?
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>>62429861
My point was those are options, not necessities. Charisma is their real dump stat.
>>62429876
Mechanicaly, they make one or two full-fledged attacks then one or two just unarmed attacks (or dodge, dash, or whatever). Most of their attacks can and should be with a weapon, over time.
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>>62430239
>>62430242
>>62430428
I read it all anons.
What I meant was that only Paladin specialises in two out of three stats that are are usually dump stats so he compared to other classes rarely has points left for general useful stats.
I guess that is why he gets the aura of Protection.
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>>62430596
No one would be able to get that from those choice words.
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>>62430757
I got it, anon. I got it.
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>>62428554
No. It mean can hit with head more. Cannot be disarmed if weapon is part of me.
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>>62430120
From what I can find I can't see differences in quality but if those are actual bodies he's tracing and shading they're pretty hot.
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>>62426638
Because D&D is a trash system
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>>62431750
This.
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>>62426638
>Play GURPS
>All my Martial character never had an INT below 12.
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>>62426638
Stop playing shit systems and you won't have to.
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>>62428824
People built trippers all the time. You are trying to move the goalpost.is not a matter of how good it is, but wheter they dumped int or not.
They didn't.
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>>62428907
Dhurrr. That's the reason of the dumping.
Anyway, barring fear builds or other specific reasons is cha that is dumped.
OP is a retarded faggot.
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>>62429288
There's like, Swashbuckler(Rogue) And two kinds of bard that lets you play a charismatic fight-man. You can however, also be a charismatic fightman, only if you play a champion because none of your class features key of charisma anyway.

Just play a rogue oniichan.
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>>62431874
Sword Saint Samurai is also a Cha martial
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>>62426638
>high Int
>you can only remember your strategies when you're actively hitting someone with a melee weapon
>your companions can't remember them either

Warlords are not leaders in the common sense of the word, only in the terms made up for the game. They have no idea how to delegate; they have to be there for everything or it all falls apart. And not only do they have to be there, but they have to be literally on the front lines doing the actual work. Warlords are the type of people that you try to filter out when looking for leadership or management material. They may function all right on the bottom of the hierarchy, but if they should happen to rise higher through the Peter Principle they quickly find themselves out of their element. Because, quite simply, they're too dumb.
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>>62431973
>using narrative combat mechanics to strictly define personality and capability
Anon, you are so silly.
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>>62429288
>he doesnt roll for stats
>he doesnt roleplay his characters early life
>his characters arent capable enough to realize their own strengths and weaknesses
>his characters dont inevitably follow their dreams and pursue a career in what they are best at, murder-hoboing their way througg mystical NOTeurope as a class most closely tied to their stats
Nigga, you wouldnt sound so fucking dumb if their werent a plethora of choices based on essentially every stat for a class to play. Are there any CON based classes? We need a Olympian class based on con.
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>>62426638
Because everyone loves big, cute, dummies. You're saying you wouldn't wanna adventure with a sweet hearted but dumb as rocks barbarian lady?
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>>62432026
There're
Dragonfir adept in 3.5
Scarred witch doctor in PF
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>>62429665
God, spartan shit talking was the best
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>>62432009
4e has no "narrative combat mechanics;" it has highly templated and rigid rules that define how the world works. It's the least narrative or freeform of all the editions of D&D. Actually making a plan for troops in the field would be a skill check or skill challenge that the wizard (who has Int as a primary stat instead of a secondary one) or the rogue (who's just a little bit better at skills in general) would be better at doing than the warlord.
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>>62432026
Warlocks and Battleminds in 4e.
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>>62432026
5e's Barbarian of any kind, and the Cavalier(Fighter) Key off Con.
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>>62432116
>that the wizard (who has Int as a primary stat instead of a secondary one) or the rogue (who's just a little bit better at skills in general) would be better at doing than the warlord.
This is not how 4E works.
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>>62432116
> it has highly templated and rigid rules that define how the world works

Do you think minions REALLY have 1HP and die from a cat's scratch? 4e's rules are made to facilitate an adventure with lots of skirmish fights.

>Actually making a plan for troops in the field would be a skill check or skill challenge

True.

>that the wizard (who has Int as a primary stat instead of a secondary one) or the rogue (who's just a little bit better at skills in general) would be better at doing than the warlord.

This entirely depends on things like trained skills and utility powers and the general build these characters have.

>just a little bit better at skills in general

I think you don't understand 4e.
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>>62429142
>>62429288
>separation of mechanical and roleplaying potrayal of character
shiggy diggy
There are only two correct ways of playing a character in an RPG that enforces said separation:
- Building mechanical character, then inventing a personality based on mechanical stats, even if it might not be the kind of character you've wanted to roleplay initially.
- Going with predetermined personality and backstory, modeling the character mechanically off of it.

I constantly see people suggesting the latter, but, newsflash, basing character's personality and origins off his stats is also an option.
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>>62432243
>Do you think minions REALLY have 1HP and die from a cat's scratch? h
This is pathetic at this point
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>>62432243
>Do you think minions REALLY have 1HP and die from a cat's scratch?

Of course they do. Or rather, they would, except that situation involves two NPCs interacting with each other, which isn't allowed in 4e.
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>>62430137
In 3.5, charisma is the easiest stat to dump, but it's also the easiest stat to munchkinize. It generally has the lowest weight on the stat-line of a race or template to determine level adjust, and there is a feat, class feature, or magic item to key basically every ability in the game off of it. It's not terribly hard for a character to be adding CHA to attacks, damage, AC (including touch AC), saves, initiative, and any or all of your skill checks. Nor is it hard to add double your CHA to some of those (saves in particular). And reaching arbitrarily large values of CHA permanently is far easier than reaching similar levels of permanent strength (although STR does have a lot of temporary buffs to grant extremely large bonuses, far moreso than CHA).
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>>62426638
>You will never be with bootleg Saber.
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>>62429288
>look guys, I'm playing a fighter with 8 STR because he's terminally ill! Aren't I original and great at roleplaying?!
I mean kudos to you but some people like to play a non-dead end characters.
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>>62427005
Thinking man's martial vs. the brainlet caster.
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>>62432506
In PF I'm playing a Cha SAD monk/paladin, is the strongest martial and the best party face
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>>62428855
>playing baby-mode where you get to choose what result goes for which stat
>not rolling stats down the line and living with it
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>>62429665
MUSCULAR JUDAISM
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>>62432314
We're talking about assigned stats. You can't really dump stat when you roll, my dude. Try to keep up with the class.
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>>62432816
>Cha SAD monk/paladin
Build?
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>>62426638
Because no matter what chargen system you use, you're going to have stat priorities and limited points/rolls to distribute. A whopping half of your stats contribute to neither your ability to deal damage nor sustain it, and one of the other half of your stats is generally rendered useless by a certain point depending on what edition you're playing. So why then, would somebody who decided to play the "hit thing with stick" class put his best rolls or any amount of points into a stat that only makes them slightly less terrible at doing things other than beating the shit out of stuff?

If WoTC were smart, they'd stop tying stats to characters and start tying them to primary classes instead, that way you don't have a monk who needed to put a ton of points in 4/6 of his stats and sucks at everything versus a Druid, or god forbid a wizard, who need one or two stats max and only really cares about pumping one!
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>>62432609
I do mention not purposefully gimping yourself in another post, to be fair to myself.
>>
>>62433825


Monk (Sohei archetype) 1 level:
-Has flurry of blows
-Good saves (+2 to all)
-Can wear light armor and still flurry and do other monk stuff
-Feat from dodge, combat reflexes, imp grapple
-Acts in every surprise turn

Paladin (Enlightened Paladin archetype) 8 level:
-Can only wear light armor but adds CHA to DEX for AC and CMD when wearing light or no armor
-No Smite Evil, but gets Personal Trait that works like Smite Evil but against ANY alignment. Instead of adding CHA to Hit, AC, Saves and Damage you add +1 to Hit, AC, Saves and Damage and +1 for every 4 levels above that
-Gets ki pool. Works like Monk ki pool and on top of that can spend 1 ki to ignore DR for a turn
-Unarmed strike counts as half monk levels one
-The rest is pretty much the same as a paladin

Fighter (Unarmed archetype) 1:
-To get one style feat without meeting prerequisites: Pummeling charge (pounce with unarmed attacks)


Traits:
-Defensive strategist: No flatfooted due initiative rools
-Fate's favored: +1 to luck bonuses (to use with Divine Favour spell and some magic items like lucky horseshoe)

Feats:
-Fey foundling (to use with lay of hands) adds +2 to heal for every die of healing (right now 8d8+8 as a swift action)
-Power attack
-Cornugon Smash (if you hit someone with an attack in which you used power attack you get a free action intimidation)
-Unsanctioned Knowledge: Add one 1st level spell, one 2nd level spell, one 3rd level spell and one 4th level spell to your known spells from Wizard, Cleric, Bard, Sorcerer, etc lists
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>>62433965
Cont.

I'm basically adding Cha to Saves and AC, so I went Str and Cha and forgot about the rest pretty much. I could have went full Cha though but didn't want to minmax that hard

Forgot trait that adds Cha to Initiative rolls and trait that gives me +2 caster level in case of multiclassing
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>>62433965
Fuck that grammar:
Feat to choose from dodge, combat reflexes and imp grapple, I chose dodge
It's Personal Trial, not Persnal Trait

The ki pool keys on Charisma. ki is nice because by spending 1 ki you can either make an extra attack on flurry of blows, get +20 to speed for one turn, get +4 to AC for one turn or the ignore DR mentioned above.

Magic equipment is the basic but as armor I have a Mithral nimble kikko with Brawling, Brawling gives you untyped +2 to attack and damage and CMB with unarmed strikes. Also headband of Cha.
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>>62433965
>>62433982
>>62434052
Very nice. Thanks.
>>
>>62429288
Cool let me put an 8 in strength and a 10 in Dex on my fighter and call it a day then. Better put 15 in int so he's not a dummy.

Aw cool I love having a character who can't do anything of value I'm really helping out my friends here I can't wait to die in like 2 sessions and have to start this whole process again because D&D inevitably is about combat and how dare anyone try to make a competent character.
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>>62429597
You know monks are fucking magic right
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>>62426638
If the Warlord existed in 5e then you wouldn't see them dump int so much.

Hell, if the Investigation skill ever fucking did anything it'd be dumped slightly less.
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>>62433831
>I do mention not purposefully gimping yourself in another post, to be fair to myself.
Putting a 10 in cha or int as a fighter does not tangibly affect the game, since you're going to be shit at any cha or int skill anyway.
Putting a 10 in STR as a fighter is going to directly affect your most used ability, hitting things, in both the accuracy of your attacks and the damage of them.

By not choosing optimal stats you ARE purposely gimping yourself, the only saving grace is that you're not gimping yourself as hard as you can be. Wizards can get away with it because they only need one key stat of int and one secondary stat of constitution to not die, but fighters already fall behind the curve without good magical armour and weapons, and it only gets worse if you don't max your physical stats - when you go up against an equally levelled enemy with their stupid ACs all the tactics in the world isn't going to help you hit that Balor's 25 AC.

And you can do advanced player tactics with an int score of 10, as well. That's the problem with D&D, when in standard combat, the only thing that matters is the numbers on your sheet.
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>>62434345
5e pls go
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7 int is 10% below average.
>>
STR increases damage, accuracy; DEX does that for certain classes, weapons, and increases AC; CON increases tanking; the rest do nothing for physical ranged / melee attacks
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>>62427005
If only you actually had any understanding of strategy
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>>62427942
>roleplaying
lmfao i bet you take five minutes to say "i attack" fucking nerd
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>>62429288
>you can make a CHA fighter
who dies in the first combat, yeah. good job.
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>>62426929
Yes, and?
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>>62427989
It's doing two things; 1. Drawing things in the style of an official webcomic that makes fun of Fate/GO and 2. Referencing an infamous bootleg figure.
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>>62429342
Wrong, a character's attributes are determined by whether you want that character to have even the slightest chance of surviving one session.
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>>62429379
nope, you're wrong, and he defeated you in this argument.
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>>62429665
monks practice martial skills, retard
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>>62426929
Today on: Shit Ya Didn't Need to Know but I'm Gonna Tell Ya Anyway!

Theres unironically a fetish for it with the tag usually being "Wall-eyed". It directly competes with the cross-eyed fetish sort of like how flat-chesters are at odds with cowtidders.
>>
>>62429799
that's correct
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>>62431784
dnd is objectively perfect in all ways
>>
Reminder that 6 stats exist because stats were rolled for so you needed more attributes to increase the chances of average character stats.

In modern d&d the only stats should be Power (determine to hit and damage), Willpower (determine DC for skill effects) and Skill (bonus to activities your character is good at)
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>>62433831
Failing to optimize your most important stats is purposefully gimping yourself.
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>>62429799
While I won't tell you you're wrong about any of that, you aren't, I WILL tell you you're wrong about your opinions resulting from it.
Yes mechanically you might be deadweight assuming the campaign or your levels get far enough along for the discrepancies to get THAT big but you and your buddies should be there for the fucking crunch.
You should be there for your buddies and vice versa and for the story you idiots create when you play together and for the good times resulting from it.
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>>62435856
The discrepancy is there at level one.
You can't experience or contribute to a story if you're dead.
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>>62427111
no results for this name
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>>62435942
Danbooru “Narisokonai.” It’s in the name.
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>>62435954
i know, it didn't turn up any results
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>>62432384
And in this corner, a retard who is unaware that NPCs and PCs have had different statistics and mechanical outlines in almost every edition, with 3rd edition being the ONLY outlier to date.
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>>62426916
For all the flak that 4th ED gets for being too Warcraft-centric, it really did have the best rendition of martials out of all editions, including 1st.
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>>62438305
And 5th. In other words, the two editions that everyone actually played. Making NPCs and PCs use the same system simplifies converting NPCs to PCs which is something that many parties use a lot.
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>>62429559
>>62429017
Ah, i do not know anything of fateshit
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>>62426638
Because they don't know better. Wisdom is the better dump stat for martials.
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>>62438437
>And 5th

NPCs in 5th generally don't have class levels. At best they have some class abilities. Most notably, casting enemies do not have the sppell/day of an equivalent PC class (while martial enemies get to double attack 5 levels sooner).
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>>62438437
Ah-hahaha-NO. 5e NPCs do NOT use the same character generation rules as PCs. That's something only 3e did.
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>>62438437

… I have never played a game where anyone did that.

Hell, even I did play a game where I was taking over an NPC, I would rather get the boardstrokes of their abilities and background, and make the PC itself.
>>
>>62438392
Yep. But the "it's WoW!" hate-memery took off and Paizo exploited it and, well, a good edition was wasted because of bad marketing.

You want your Str-focused Rogue? You want a berserker Fighter? You want an archer Warlord? 4e let you have all of that.
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>>62438478
>reasonably educated and handsome fighter but completely lacking in common sense
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>>62438528

>resists mind control through sheer charm.

Ah good times.
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>>62438545
4e was a riot, yes.
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>>62426638
>Now that was how you played a martial.
*sips Monsters*
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>>62438487
>>62438488
Not that anon, just kind of intrigued as a fairly new player who would like to DM at some point - how DO you generate NPCs for 5e (particularly magic ones/ones with class abilities) ?
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>>62434730
Literally every iteration of D&D has monks as magical, from their features to even their own bodies
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>>62438478
>>62438528
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>>62438718
There's guidelines in the DMG (or maybe the MM? I don't remember).

You give them whatever abilities they should have, then calculate their defense and offense values and get a rough CR out of that. You then adjust until they are the desired strength.
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>>62438718
Okay, this is tricky to boil down because it gets its own pair of chapters in the DMG.

For NPCs who aren't going to get into combat with characters, it's mostly just jotting down generalizations - even ability scores are just presumed to be average, with you abstractly noting any abilities that are either high or low.

For combat NPCs... things get a lot more complicated, there's ten pages of this stuff, but it basically boils down to "eyeball the basic concept you want, and check these tables for guidelines based on specific criteria".

I don't really know how to summarize better.
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>>62438478
>>62438528
Highly fitting for noble fighters

>Very well-educated, but not especially bright - has more knowledge and rote skills than smarts
>Pretty quick witted
>Has plenty of physical presence, raised from birth to command, decent looks

>The kind of wisdom that results in charges that mournful poems get written about
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>>62426873
>only purpose it served was giving clerics and magic-users a different prime requisite.

Essentially correct. Same reason you have craft/profession/perform to give each mental ability its own thing.
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>>62438466
sader is a korean knockoff model, and is somewhat valuable as a joke product among some circles.
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>>62426638
>not rolling your stats
jesus christ how terrible are you people?
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>>62426926
>Dumping CHA
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>>62440390
>I want useless PCs in my game
jesus christ how terrible are you? If you want a huge disparity between PCs, just play D&D.
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>>62440390
Dump stat means it's the stats with lowest value to it, dumbass. How you get the number is irrelevant
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>>62429832
And then you realize Samurai is a thing, giving that Fighter a Diplomacy bonus just one below the maximum a Bard can attain.
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>>62429288
>stat my class uses the least
>This isn't determined by class it's determined by roleplaying
Nigger if they're playing a character meant to have good interaction skills then they're USING THE STAT you fucking retard.
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>>62438495
that's 'cause your experiences are incorrect
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>>62440727
disparity is good and d&d is the correct system
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>>62441837
and that's determined by class, idiot
only casters are meant to have good interaction skills 'cause they're the only ones that need mental stats
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>>62442226
>and that's determined by class, idiot
No it's determined by what background you choose, retard. Human variant starts with a feat. There's a feat called Skilled which gives you proficiency in, you guessed it, more skills. And seeing as how Fighters get more ASI's than anyone, they can *gasp* have more than one or two ability scores capped out. Such as Charisma. A social fighter is not only easy, it in no way impairs your murdering ability.
>>
>>62442637
nope determined by class dumbass
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>>62442746
Are you really so stupid, you can't grasp that class isn't the only thing that determines proficiencies?
>>
>>62442773
lol you're really still trying
you lost kid, try again tomorrow
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>>62433629
You can still dump with this method in a roundabout manner. You simply choose a class where which does not need the stats which you rolled poorly for.
>>
>>62442819
Maybe try following the conversation next time.
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>>62442867
i did, he (you) lost :)
>>
>>62442863
you have to choose class first, then roll
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>>62442903
>why worry about stats you don't use
>if they're playing a social fighter they're using the stat though
>REEE INTERACTION SKILLS ARE BASED ON CLASS!
>Not if you choose options that give any skill to any class
>REEE THAT'S NOT A THING YOU LOSE!
Except it is a thing, sorry.
>>
>>62442961
nope it's not, better luck next time
>>
>>62442961
Do I seriously have to screencap that backgrounds are a thing? Because I already have this to show how easy a social fighter is to make.
>>
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>>62429959
God, why is monk so shit when he uses every useful stat
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>>62443033
Aw shit, quoted my own post by accident. Oh well. This is directed at >>62442997
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>>62443033
class determines stats
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>>62429959
str, int, and cha saves are all defensive, so are strength checks for stuff like tentacles, webs, grappling
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>>62441837
>he agrees with me but gets mad over it
Only on 4chan.
>>
>>62442637
>A social fighter is not only easy, it in no way impairs your murdering ability.
Throwing a 4th stat into the mix and sacrificing a background or a feat does exactly that by definition. Some idiot who picked up Skilled and pumped CHA is going to be far worse at killing than the Fighter who has a better stat spread and GWM or Sharpshooter. It's not even close.
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>>62432116
>it has highly templated and rigid rules
Correct
>that define how the world works
Incorrect. They provide a framework for how obstacles to PCs interract with PCs in the ways they'd most likely interract with PCs, usually combat, and nothing more. 4e crunch is so seperated from fluff, you can refluff a class, or power, into almost anything.
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>>62444685
>4th stat
Str. Con. Cha. And you obviously dumped int if counting to three gives you trouble. After that, it's a simple matter to pick skills, feats, and features that benefit from higher charisma.
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>>62438734
This is a problem with dnd drawing its influences out of their contexts into dnd's context. In the worldview in which kung fu monks originate, they *aren't* magic. They're martial artists who have cultivated their natural abilities to great heats of prowess and ability that still remain distinct from actual sorcery or miracles, because the makeup of the natural world is not the-real-world-plus-magic-on-top, it's one in which everything corresponds to the wuxing cycle from the ground up and chi and meridians are just how bodies *work*. It's not magic, those are just the natural laws in effect. A "fighter" would have the same abilities as a monk, the only difference being the individual martial disciplines they practice.

Then dnd comes and says "these Shaolin guys in the movies are super cool", and pulls them out of the context in which they arose and puts them in dnd's the-real-world-plus-magic-on-top and then gets in a twist about them really being muscle wizards, because obviously they're breaking physics, not just acting naturally in a world that supports their aesthetic and genre conventions.

If you live in a world in which monks have chi, by rights so should everyone else.
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>>62443039
I've found monk to be more of a feast or famine thing rather than straight up bad. Stunning strike is the bane of my existence as a DM right now since the party has two monks. One of them usually has 23AC (21 to 25 depending on what's happening), while the other is almost always disengaging using drunken technique. They're mobile, can deliver good damage, and I can't hit them. When they do get hit, the go down like a sack of potatoes though. Monks are either running around like anime characters, or eating shit, there is no in between.
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>>62438520
You know if someone an actually good spiritual successor to 4e, it might actually give D&D competition.
>>
>>62446665

Eh, I'm not sure that there is that big a space for RPG stuff that people will drop anything other than vidya adaptions into RPGs these days.

And hell, starfinder kinda attempts to lift some of the good ideas from 4e (hey, levels for items, so DMs know when players should probably be able to find things of a given power.) but eh. still stuck on the "gotta have 3 stats for not being able to touch someone."
>>
>>62426638
Because the stats in D&D are horribly unbalanced and intelligence is the least mechanically useful.
The stats really need better balancing. Dumping a stat should be a choice with real consequences, and the player should have a reason to actually think about how which stats should be the highest besides the 1 or 2 stats relevant to their class.
>>
>>62446665
>making a 4ealike takes a ton of time and effort because you have to think out hundreds of abilities and test all of them, especially hard for a small studio
>learning a 4ealike is harder than learning, say, lasers and feelings, so people are less likely to start a game
>everyone is tired of "BUBUBUBUBUT IT IS LITERALLY WORLD OF WARAGAGABGLABGL" and just wants to play games and avoids 4e or similar because they want to have a game actually happen because keeping games together is hard enough

And that's why the thing you predict has not and will not happen.
>>
>>62447311
>>62446665
Hi guys!

What's going on in this thread?
>>
>>62426638
He does it for free.
>>
>>62444068
No dipshit, proficiencies determine stats.

>>62446346
And Wisdom, but it's not like that's a bad stat to have anyway. And with good rolls you can still max out all the stats you need to, remember Fighters add a total of 14 to their stats.
>>
kinda sad that the picture was removed. did it infringe on any rule?
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>>62446550
>If you live in a world in which monks have chi, by rights so should everyone else.
"There exists a set S whose members have property X" does not imply "All members of all sets have property X"
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>>62448760
nah class determines stats and proficiencies
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File deleted.
>>62449293
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>>62442637
Skills are unreliable shit that you roll once in a blue moon and can hardly succeed on anything that matters unless you cheesed the fuck out of it. Fights happen pretty much all the time because that's what almost all of the rules are geared towards.
>>
>>62449293
I mean, you could quite clearly see the nipples through the shirt
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>>62449832
Yeah but that's not nudity.
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>>62446346
>dumping Wis
Enjoy being fucked by half of the spells in the game, dumbass.
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>>62450730
>what are cheap magic items with immunity to 99% of the wis save effects in the game
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>>62450786
Name some.
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>>62450796
>spoonfeed me
>>
>my op pic is deleted
Rude. I thought tg was /d/lite
>>
>>62450796
protection from evil
protection from good
protection from neutral
nothing can harm you ever
>>
>>62451356

But what if someone gives their mind control spell protection from protection?
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>>62452367
protection from spells with protection from protection
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>>62449832
Might as well delete all threads if THAT'S considered too much
>>
>>62450967
Nope. That’s the kind of newfag shit you hear off reddit and desperately try to enforce because you’re too fucking lazy to just go to the appropriate board to jack off.
>>
>>62426638
Yawn.
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>>62453806
Spoken like a true newfag. Lurk more
>>
>>62446550
Nicely put.
>>
>>62450730
The way to deal with those effects is with removal, suppression, and immunity. One or two higher wisdom mod won't change that.





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