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L5R / Legend of the Five Rings General

Scorpions and weird dice edition

>USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS FOR THE RPG (OLD AND NEW)

Rulebooks:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_YUlI4RPylqTkloeWlIeWY5aVE?usp=sharing

The FF Beta:
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/dc/2f/dc2f92bb-bfd2-4f12-99eb-1d084491de65/l5r00_beta_rulebook.pdf

Latest Beta Update:
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/99/6e/996e894d-b3d4-44e8-810e-d1824b82fd18/l5r00_beta_updates_v40.pdf

5E Mantis stuff:
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/0a/47/0a47cdac-9343-4626-8d2b-1dedb27ebafe/mantis_clan_dlc.pdf

>USEFUL RESOURCES & LINKS FOR THE FF LCG

Tabletop Simulator Mod - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1099785017

Ringteki (Browser based game client) - http://jigoku.online/

Card Database / Deck Builder - https://fiveringsdb.com/

TTS Deck Converter - http://infamous-irc.com/dengeki/l5r-deck-generator/

>/tg/ L5R Discord
https://discord.gg/CJfVQ7B

>Clan Allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/14339259

If anyone has questions about the RPG, I've got a copy right beside me, and I already answered some questions over at >>62433310
>>
5e been scanned yet?
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>>62435176
>>62435075

Alternatively, is there a pdf for the core, and did someone buy it yet?
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>>62435075
Ded thread, ded game

Play Pathfinder Oriental Adventures instead
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>>62435255
Alas, the PDF isn't out yet. There's usually a bit of a delay between the physical and PDF release from Fantasy Flight; hopefully this time it won't be the two weeks that Genesys apparently took.
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>>62435301

Well, could be worse. FFG can't do PDFs for Star Wars, so we have to wait until people cannibalize their books or make due with shitty phone scans.
>>
>www.strawpoll.me/14339259

thought Dragon'd be lower and Scorpion higher

crack out those puzzle boxes
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>>62435260
Why the hell would I play pathfinder? 3.5 was shit, and Pathfinder is the neckbeards attempt to celebrate that shitness
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You know people do not want generals right? Not unless it is for D&D or MTG. This board is now endless 'How would they fare in 40k' and poorly hidden fetish posts
>>
If 5e anon is here, quick question:

Does the Kitsu have any technique that allows him to use a spirits stats/to be possessed?
One of my players is indecisive about which school to pick.
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>>62435075
>>62435442
>l5r art that isn't overthetop shit
Nice
>>
Crab:
Hida Defender
Hiruma Scout (now with added shinobi)
Kaiu Engineer
Kuni Purifier
Yasuki Merchant

Crane:
Asahina Artificer
Daidoji Iron Warrior
Doji Diplomat
Kakita Duelist

Dragon:
Agasha Mystic
Kitsuki Investigator (now a courtier-bushi hybrid)
Mirumoto Two-Heavens Adept
Togashi Tattooed Order

Lion:
Akodo Commander
Ikoma Bard
Kitsu Medium
Matsu Berserker

Phoenix:
Asako Loremaster
Isawa Elementalist
Shiba Guardian
Kaito Shrine Keeper (archer monks with limited spellcasting)

Scorpion:
Bayushi Manipulator
Shosuro Infiltrator (now with added courtier)
Soshi Illusionist (now with added shinobi AND courtier)
Yogo Wardmaster

Unicorn:
Ide Trader
Iuichi Meishodo Master
Moto Conqueror
Shinjo Outrider
Utaku Battle Maiden

Neutral:
Worldly Ronin

A couple of notable things:
• Crab and Unicorn get an extra school over the other clans.
• Scorpion don't have a bushi school in the core.
• Kaito are the only completely new clan school.
• The only minor school is the Tortoise one, which is in the adventure that comes with the GM screen; so far, there's no sign of the Mantis school from the beta.

Since this was posted, the Mantis clan and two schools for them, have gone up on the FFG website as a free PDF
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>>62435833
Answered it in the other thread, might as well paste it here for people who aren't reading that:

"Summon an ancestor to possess you" is their capstone technique, complete with guidelines on how to make custom ancestors (PC creation rules, 180 experience, make it in advance and get the GM to approve it).

Their starting school technique lets them cast one spell they don't know per scene without the usual penalties because the ancestors are more helpful and less demanding than the kami.
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>>62435941
>heir starting school technique lets them cast one spell they don't know per scene without the usual penalties because the ancestors are more helpful and less demanding than the kami.

I like this.
>>
Is it just me or do duels not happen nearly as often as advertised? I've been through a few fairly long lasting campaigns now and I can recall only like 3 duels.
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>>62436030
I mean, that sounds about right to me. Just because there is a particular brand of autist that screams 'DUEL' every time something happens that they do not like, does not mean they are something that happens every day
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>>62435075
Jesus that looks like the cover of a Romance of the Three Kingdoms game more than a L5R book.
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>>62436154
It is almost like they want the game to have more influences than some autists interpretation of Seven Samurai this time
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>>62436177
I'm not saying it's a bad thing but It's kinda jarring for me since I've played it off and on for 10+ years. Also outing myself as a RotTK fan.
>>
I didn't think it was possible, but the book is even prettier than 4e
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>>62436103
Well you do have entire schools and school ranks based around dueling.
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>>62436473
In universe going around dueling everyone for dumb reasons is a straight path to honor killing(with you as the victim of course)
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>>62436473
>>62436562
Yeah, but it is more like a condom, it is better to have it and not need it

They also have Iaijutsu competitions at nearly every major court. Those Bushi got to show off their skills, so that you know you can't step out of line.

If you are the kind of guy that walks around bullying others into duels, then eventually, someone better is going to take offense.
>>
Speaking of duels, how does duels work in 5e?
If book-anon is still present -
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>>62437286
I am, but it'll take a bit of reading before I can summarise it.
>>
>>62437286
Okay, here we go. First, the mechanics unique to duels:

• You use Meditation for the initiative roll.
• At the start of each round, everyone gains strife equal to the turn number, then can take extra strife to boost their initiative for that turn.
• The first time someone maxes out their strife or Unmasks, then their opponent gets a kind of "attack of opportunity" that auto-crits if it hits.
• The duelists start range 2 apart.

There are also two actions unique to duels:

• Centre: Roll you Skill dice for a given skill, and save the results. The next time you roll that skill in the duel, you can replace any of the results you rolled with the ones you saved.
• Predict: Secretly choose a non-Void stance. If the stance your opponent picks next round is that one, they get 4 strife and have you change to a different stance.
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>>62437740
I like what they tried to do, but it is still, highest init wins on anything other than a death duel
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>>62437853
Not exactly. I mentioned crits there, so I should probably explain how damage works in this game; it's kind of weird.

First, you have your "endurance". This is basically your max HP, based on your Earth and Fire stats.

When you take a hit from a weapon, you normally lose endurance equal to [weapon's damage + bonus successes]. However, if you're out of endurance, or you spend a Void point to not defend, or the person attacking spends two opportunities on the attack roll, then the weapon does a crit and the character has to resist it with the Fitness skill.

Crits have a severity equal [weapon's deadliness - bonus successes on resist roll]. The higher the severity, the worse the wound you take. This ties into how you win duels.

Here are the example duels, and how win:
• Iaijutsu to first strike: First person to get a crit wins.
• Iaijutsu to first blood: First person to get a severity 5+ crit wins.
• Sparring bout: Incapacitate the other person.
• Warrior's duel: Knock out/kill/force a yield out of the other person.
• Taryu-jiai: Incapacitate/force a yield out of the other person. WITH MAGIC.

Because of the way damage works, you can lose initiative, take damage on the first round, and still win because you were the first person to actually draw blood.
>>
>>62437968
Oh, okay. sounds better than 4e at least. Not sure how I like the idea of swinging and missing in duels, as it is supposed to be about one perfect strike, but I suppose you could flavour hits that don't crit as your opponent becoming fatigued from seeing the opening they gave you, and no strike taking place.
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>>62438273

They didn't have the right force of will in the strike to make it count, clearly.
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>>62435904
I'm bothered by the lack of a Scorpion Bushi. It was one of the classes I was looking forward to seeing
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>>62438364

You're the only one who was. That's why it's not there.
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>>62438364
bayushi manipulator serves just fine as a bushi. their technique works in skirmishes, though not duels, and they can learn kata and get martial skills and stuff
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>>62438364
there's no scorpion bushi? who fills their armies?
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>>62438351
Indeed. It's possible that that beefslab of Hida doesn't bleed enough for the judges to see it (crit gets resisted down to below 5).
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>>62438423
scorpion who are bushi? just because they're not explicitly reflected in the book doesn't mean they don't exist :P

also: ashigaru fill their armies. it's peasants with spears, it's not like every army has only (or even majority) samurai
>>
I mean, the only real question is does the book give a GM enough stuff to start some shit (especially given that it's a timeline rewind basically) and does it give players enough options to hook 'em in and give them good ideas for characters just reading it.
>>
Crane and Scorpion hatefucking!
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>>62438610
As the person with the book, I'd say that it does indeed give a good lot of options to players. I'm especially pleased by how many mechanical options players seem to get in gameplay, as opposed to just in character creation.

As for GMs, I'm reasonably familiar with the old setting, and I've been following the FFG reboot closely, so I don't know how well the setting fluff in the book will support a new GM.
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>>62435260
is this a joke
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>>62438689
Yes, I believe it is. If not... y'all motherfuckers need Fukurokujin.
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>>62438422

So, OP (or any other book haver) this might actually be a good point for some more info. We can see from the Mantis web supplement various key symbols, and terms like techniques and other keywords, but what do the schools actually do besides their signature abilities and some stats n' skills?

We can see symbols and words like kata, rituals, shuji, etc. So what sort of options does a school give you, what do they mean, how do you go up the ranks, etc. Bayushi Manipulator is labeled a Courtier school, but obviously it's not exclusively courtier techniques as seen from the quoted post.
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>>62438640
Sure, aside from the hate
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>>62438728
I'll take it.
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>>62438728

That Scorpion is absolutely ready to take that Crane dick.
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>>62438762
That's Bayushi Kachiko and Doji Hotaru.
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>>62438762
it's a lady, but you're forgiven as Crane can be difficult to tell apart
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>>62438580
In old lore, the Scorpion's proper military was actually very conventional, complete with heavy infantry and cavalry, with only a few special sneaky units.
>>
>>62438709
Okay, let me take a look at the Mantis schools so I can explain this with reference to something everyone can see.

So, the main things schools determine are:
• Your school ability, which always scales with your rank.
• Your capstone ability.
• What types of technique you can learn.
• What techniques, skills, glory, and gear you can start with.
• What the best things to learn for ranking up are.

So, let's take the Storm Fleet Sailor school.

The first thing to notice is the little diamons symbol beside the starting kata Pelting Hail Style. This means "ignore prerequisites". Pelting Hail Style is rank 2 technique, but Storm Fleet Sailors don't care about that; they get it at rank 1.

You'll also notice the symbols beside the techniques they can learn: A sai for kata, a brush for shuji, and incense for rituals. These are the symbols for those technique categories, and mostly exist for the next thing:

The advance chart. To advance up your school rank, you have to learn things. Everything you learn next to your rank on the chart gives you its full experience toward ranking up. Everything else gives half. You'll notice that at Rank 1, Shallow Waters has that shuji brush symbol next to it. That's just there to tell you what it is, and where to look for it in the book.

The thing that stands out here is Skulk. That shuriken next to it means it's a ninjutsu technique. But wait, Storm Fleet Sailors don't get ninjutsu techniques. But keep waiting, because the diamond symbol is back. They might not normally be able to learn ninjutsu, but they can learn this. You can see the symbol again next to stuff like Osano-Wo's Boast, a shuji that the Sailors get a rank early.
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>>62435075
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>>62438817

Right. And the Crane lady has a dick. They all do.
>>
Any new schools people like? Utaku Battle Maiden's school ability looks dope.
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>>62439086
You need to work on yourself son
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>>62439732
I really like all the Unicorn abilities to be honest.
>>
>>62436773
But if you're the best, then nobody can stop you.

That's kinda the point.

It sucks, but a lot of things about Rokugani life suck. If you're the best blade in all the land there are few people who could tell you what to do.
>>
>>62439732
Matsu Beserker. That rank 5 is amazing.
>>
I really like the new Phoenix family, the Kaito. Its a cool concept. But does anyone else feel like it's too tied to using a bow? You can't use the school ability or Rank 6 without one. Or am I just being a nitpicky faggot?
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>>62440077
If you are socially retarded, someone is going to put you down before you get good enough to be the best. Even if they don't, if you spend your life treating everyone like shit, your status is going to remain low, so anyone important can just laugh off your duel requests. Eventually you are going to embarrass your Lord enough that he tells you to kill yourself, and unlike when that happens on 4chan, you actually have to do it
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>>62435075
Your beta update link is dead.
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>>62440204
Is it any more narrow than the Tsuruchi school has ever been? If I had to back-convert them for 4e I would probably make them do better with a bow but still get some use out of their techs without one, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

Incidentally, I would love to see a good Kaito implementation for 4e. I'm not interested in 5 mechanically, but I really dig this solution for giving Pheonix a fourth family without having to poach one from their neighbours-- though I do miss some of the flavour the Tamori moved into after the split with the Agasha.
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>>62440335
Oops. If I create the next general, I'll be sure to check all the links.
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>>62440276
Alternatively you become such a hazard to the court system that your food miraculously gets poisoned or you accidentally roll over onto several knives in bed
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>>62440353
I miss my mountain Jedi, bro
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>>62440204
The school techniques are a bit narrow, but they're also a school that gets a to pick from a lot of spells while having full access to kata and shuji. Their unique techniques might be narrow, but they're actually a really versatile school.
>>
>>62440353
>>62440469
I guess I just thought they were non-shugenjas who are good with spirits who also did bow stuff because cool japanese archery aesthetic. I didn't expect them to be mechanically linked.
>>
So who is best duelist, bros? Kakita, Mirumoto, Hida?
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>>62440780

>Hida
>Duelist
>Pick one

Also the founder of the Kakita and Mirumoto schools killed each other in a duel so make of that what you will.
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>>62440893
>he's never heard of the unbreakable blade
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>>62440893
I meant with the new mechanics bro. Also Hida were far and away the best duelists in 3e
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>>62440893
You can duel with a tetsubo.

Not well, but you *can*.

Now I want to see a Hida Dueling school that just involves them hitting each other over the head with a tetsubo and the first to fall over loses.
>>
I have to clear out some old stuff and found a box full of 4 editions of these books and a bunch of cards, so much love (and money) for a setting I hardly got to play. Almost three decades (?!) of memories, sad to have to be rid of it all. Hope I can find them a good home, but don't imagine anyone is into hard copies of stuff.
>>
>>62440893
Wouldn't it still be viable to play a Hida and tank Crits with high fitness?
>>
>>62441089
Are you kidding I can stand running/playing games of a pdf it's hard copy or bust for me.
>>
Yo, iam trying to collect information on running campaigns of various settings and locations. I know l5r is not exactly japan, but styles itself close enough. Id be vary greatful for information about how to run games in a Japan like setting. Not just historical info, but mystical/mythological, and how yiu as GMs dealt with running a campaign like this.
>>
>>62441144
There's a lot of myth/mystic stuff in L5R. I'd say grab the books and go.
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>>62441144
I read a book bro.

What sort of stuff do you need?
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>>62441164
Will definitely do that. I also heard theres one called Life in Rokugon that can gives me info about bushido and general life. Any other books in particular that could be of use?
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>>62441188
Emerald Empire is always the best bet
>>
>>62441188

As >>62441199 said. Imperial Histories 1 and 2 have some good campaign ideas/backstory/Alternate Timelines. Bit of stuff in the core book.
>>
>>62441172
Specifically information about running a game in ancient or fantastical japan. Such as themes to use. Iam aware i can find most historical info by just reading, iam focused more on the 'how to storytell or crwft campaigns' that feel Japanese
>>
>>62441199
>>62441221
Thank you
>>
>>62441228
Classic themes are Duty vs. Desire, and sacrifice for justice.

Watch some Kirosawa
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>>62441387
Much appreciated oh honorable anon-sama
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>>62440780
Most Bushi have some kind of dueling tech.

Hiruma: can go aggressive with fire or cool their shit with water (can strike+predict or strike+calming breath), then switch to air for the TN increase. If you don’t win initiative you can reverse the order. The extra bonus does not work on people.
Hida: Swordshatter duelist from the beta is alive and well. Just be careful when you go for striking as earth so you don’t get predicted. Basically gets a get out of finishing blow free card.
Kakita: just good at what they do. Simple, but helps you win.
Mirimoto: All over the place, but can move to 0, strike with the wak, and guard with the katana. Very much depends on their kata, no telling what they’ll do.
Akodo: Depending on rank, can drop some strife for (usually) damage. Dropping strife mid duel is good, turning it into damage might just win it there.
Matsu: Terrifying in a duel to the death, average otherwise.
Shiba: Stealth Duelist returns from 4th. Instead of pumping void into one mega duel, they can negate all strife from a roll and heal both stats once per duel. Does not mix with fire stance as written.
Shosuro: If they break, your finishing blow and all subsequent strikes are going to hurt.

Unicorn don’t get much for duels. Shinjo get early access to Flowing Water Strike, which can be nasty, but that’s all I see for them. Unless it’s a horse duel, then you win.
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>>62440104
What is it?
>>
>>62441808

If you get a Crit Hit done on you, you go Beserk and recover a whole bunch of strain.
>>
>>62441854
So they have an actual berserk mode now?
How does that work?
>>
>>62441854
I thought that was their baseline ability
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>>62441927
>>62441964

Don't have the book on me. Need to wait a month for Australia to get it, and I'm just hearing this 2nd hand.
>>
>>62435904
>no void school

Can I at least make a Battle Maiden (male)?
>>
>>62442017
It wouldn't surprise me if the Unicorn were accepting of trannies in this edition
>>
The core book mentions a Cat Clan and a Moth Clan. The Cat clan live on an island off the Phoenix Coast and are mercenary shinobi who masquerade as playwrights and entertainers. The Moth Clan is only mentioned in a sidebar along with the Bat (Not founded at this point in the old timeline) and "dozens more" .
>>
>>62442072
But I want to play a big buff man.
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>>62442072
Nope. Only takes women who carry the Utaku name.
>>
>>62441766

Mantis have that boast, which looks really nice for a duelist. The actual school technique...I'm a lot less sure on.
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>>62442094
Does it say that only cis woman count you disgusting biggot?
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>>62442130
It says they must be women who carry the Utaku name and they must meet stringent standards of prowess and honor. Lying about your identity would fail the test of honor.
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>>62442173
So now trans women are 'liars'?
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>>62441854
Thats the school ability and its fatigue not strain.
The capstone ability is once per round! when making an attack spend a void point to turn every die containing a success into an exploding success. Can only be used if you used the base school ability.
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>>62442193
Yes.
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>>62441085

Ah the ol' Crab Standdown.
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>>62442240
Hopefully the writers were not as biggoted as you. Time's up
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>>62435075
Anyone know how significantly different the Core Book is from the beta? Because the beta was a total clusterfuck, and the way FFG was acting during the open play test lead me to believe they weren’t actually going to fix the numerous problems.
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>>62442197
oh my
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>>62442282
Can't tell you if it was fixed if you don't tell us the problem
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>>62442305
Yeah that might be the most brutal capstone in the game. All exploding dice? You will turn anything you swing at into a fine paste.
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>>62442311
Christ, are we really doing this song and dance?
We’ve talked about the beta’s problems every L5R thread since its release. And I don’t feel like listing them all again, so either fuck off and let someone who isn’t a total newfag answer me or just list what’s siginificantly different from the beta.
>>
I'm pondering how you'd do a 5e Moshi/Centipede shugenja school (As the mantis stuff is 100% Yoritomo). The 4e stuff never really felt centipede (You get a second affinity for fire spells during the day...with the family that has the single largest library of fire spells in the setting. Sorta felt like that should be the default). What do you think feels like a Centipede sorta thing?

I'm pondering a bit of an inversion of the Shiba's technique. 1/encounter, you can add or remove a number of strife from a roll you make equal to your school rank. It works well with fire stance and plays with the duality of the Centipede, that they are a quiet, religious family that is polite and proper...up until the point where you get them mad and then they set the sky on fire. It also plays with the fact that they used to be Phoenix.
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>>62442338
I'm guessing the balance is that the Matsu don't get any social skills at all

Part of me wonders whether they'll get a Lion's Pride advanced school like 4e, and how brutal that would be in comparison.
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>>62442370
All I have seen is the same pathetic bellyaching about strife and dice. Expecting those to change was never gonna happen. If you don't like it, 4e still exists
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>>62442471
>As the mantis stuff is 100% Yoritomo
As it should be. Well actually, it shouldn't be called Yoritomo yet, since he's still alive but hasn't done anything impressive enough to have things named after him.
>>
>>62442101
Hadn’t checked the Mantis stuff. They were my jam in Old5R, ran Mantis Money Magistrates out of Kanlai’s Landing. I played Kakita in the playtest so I went through every iteration of new duels, if I didn’t I basically didn’t get to play.
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>>62442520
Yeah ignoring the dice bitching, some of the issues include Strife being a tutorial mechanic that gets so easy to manage it quickly loses significance after rank 1, the dueling rules being a complete mess (which upthread look like they got cleaned up a bit), the glass swords problems with the razor edge quality, no one having any idea how range bands are actually supposed to work (especially in regards to moving in between them and the farthest ranges), teleporting Kakita, and the Utaku koolaid man horse summoning.
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>>62442618

>Hadn’t checked the Mantis stuff.

They can make a boast to get +3 Composure and Endurance for the entire scene. If the scene ends and they've not completed the boast though, they immediately take 3 fatigue and 3 strife.
>>
>>62442488
>Part of me wonders whether they'll get a Lion's Pride advanced school like 4e, and how brutal that would be in comparison.

I don't know if advanced schools will be a thing in 5e and they may be replaced by a title system I've heard mention of but have yet to hear or read an in depth explanation.
>>
>>62435904
>Two-Heavens Adept

Seriously FFG? Are you going to start translating all names to their meaning. So you'll call me Who is like God? From the Dark Waters Wood?
>>
>>62442660
I'm hoping for Crab bersekers. They should be more berserky than Matsu, and not having berserkers at all would be sad after 4 editions of berserking.
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>>62442623
>Swords can break
I don't see how this is a problem
>I don't know how rangebands work
Abstract thought is not difficult
>Teleporting Kakita and Kool-Aid Utaku
To be petty, it is the shinjo with Kool-Aid horses. To be accurate, it is just some wuxia shit. Use some fucking imagination you literal, not figurative, autistic retard
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>>62442710
Fuck of Mitchell
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>>62442527
Bah! Some of us still revere the name Gusai, even if we aren't allowed to use it.
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>>62442789
Thanks for the non-answers.

Now someone with half a braincell in their heads and actual cognitive abilities want to take a crack at how different the core book is from the beta?
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>>62442623
On top of that the 20Q system was made both mandatory and super straight-jackety and Void points moved from an abstraction of something that existed in-universe to a meta-mechanic like fate points-- not that I dislike fate points, but the change is a poor one.
>>
>>62442942
Yeah there was VERY little in regard to character customization with the beta 20Qs, I’m hoping they either gave us a point build option or expanded the choices to make everyone less cookie cutter.
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>>62442658
Combined with water you can probably hold out for a finishing blow. Or take advantage of the higher threshold and blitz with fire, only after you finish though. I dig it, very Yoritomo. I never played their bushi in 4th, but their courtier class was my longest played character. If it works in combat and court that’s pretty good.
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>>62442885
Kakita still teleport, and Shinjo can still summon their horses like d&d paladins. What do you want me to say? It is clear that the changes ffg have made are not for you. That is not a bad thing
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>>62440469
Wait Kaito get spells?
So did they get retconned from how they were in the novel, where they were explicitly NOT Shugenja? Or are the “spells” just representative of their strong spritual ties despite the inability to directly commune with the Kami?
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>>62443058
>It is clear that the changes ffg have made are not for you.
Not him but you’re making an awfully loaded statement there considering he listed legitimate complaints people had with the beta.
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>>62442885
>someone with half a braincell
That’s still double than what you have, so why bother? You’ve clearly already made up your mind on how to feel about the new edition, and you’re basically just looking for someone else to spoonfeed you an opinion you want to hear. Either take the answers you’re given, wait for the PDF download to surface, or fuck off.
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>>62440276
>If you are socially retarded, someone is going to put you down
It's far more common that a samurai embarrasses themselves in some way, and Rokugani culture steps in by making them socially invisible. They stop getting invites to anywhere nice, doormen refuse entry, their lord assigns them somewhere that makes socialising difficult (there are plenty of distant muddy rice farms that need overseers), etc.

You absolutely can fuck up enough to disappear, and find a fate worse than death - being totally ostracised from society and given a duty somewhere terminally boring.

The most common temporary version of this is "guarding the Emperor's peacocks". Yes, they exist. No, they don't really need a guard.

Even if you do something amazing while you're being ignored in this way, Rokugan takes less notice of you, and actively works on forgetting your previous deeds. Glory gains are reduced (potentially not counting as a gain), Glory losses are increased, and not gaining Glory during a time itself brings a Glory loss.
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>>62443166
I see you’re also incapable of reading comprehension, not surprising given you’ve already displayed any ability to think at all.
Does your handler know you’re using the internet? Shouldn’t they be supervising you?

I’m done humoring you, retard. Don’t bother replying because I’m going to be talking with the adults from now.
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>>62440353
>Incidentally, I would love to see a good Kaito implementation for 4e.
What are they supposed to do? It's probably well supported already, somewhere.
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>>62443240
They didn’t exist until FFG’s first novella, and 5e Core book is our first look at anything solidly mechanical regarding their school.
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>>62443145
But the complaints are about content, not mechanical I'm balance. If he doesn't like the content, what more is there to say?
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>>62443280
>They didn’t exist until FFG’s first novella
Yes, but whatever they do, that mechanical activity is probably not so outlandish that you can't fuck cudgel something together that accurately represents it.

So, again, what do they do?
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>>62443540
They're pseudo shugenja who put spells in arrows and fluffwise, guard and maintain shrines with classic shrine maiden style. A fairly big fluff change is that non-shugenja can interact with the kami if they're really pious and try hard enough.
In 4e, they'd have the monk tag and probably have a specific list of spells that they could imbue an arrow with a limited number of times per day.
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>>62443540
Their duty as a family is to investigate disturbances at and maintain elemental shrines. Is that what you were looking for?
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>>62442742
I'm sure we will see a crabzerker school at some point but I think making the core Hida school all about tanking and big weapons/armor is a fair choice.
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>>62443698
>A fairly big fluff change is that non-shugenja can interact with the kami if they're really pious and try hard enough.
It's not that much of a change. Though in old canon, the interaction was usually making the kami angry, because you have no idea what you're doing - you fucked up in the first place, and now it's time to bring in someone who knows how to calm the kami down.

Though, honestly, at the point where they're utilising spells, either I'd say 'fuck off, they are shugenja who use bows in casting spells' or 'fuck off, those are kiho being used fancy through bows'.
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>>62443805
I think they are so pious the kami grant their prayers and imbue their arrows with power, but instead of making up a list of abilities only they can use you just get spells
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>>62443921
>>62443698

so they shoot sacred arrows, you say?
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>>62443280
They're shrine keepers with an archery tradition and an ability to act as living shrines for kami to inhabit.

Of the cuff, for 4e I would make them a five-rank monk school with some shugenja-like abilities. Maybe something like the following.

>R1
Add half ranks in Lore: Theology to Kyujutsu and Etiquette rolls.

>R2
Make a TN 20 Meditation/Void roll to sense the presence and general disposition of spirits.

>R3
When you spend a Void Point on a Kyujutsu roll, gain an additional +2k0, and choose a non-Void element. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may choose to raise or lower the TN of any spells of that element that include you as a target by 10.

>R4
Gain +2k0 on social skill rolls with spirits you can speak to. Once per day, when you make an offering to a spirit, test Lore: Theology/Void at TN 25; on a success, you may temporarily gain a Spiritual advantage or ignore a Spiritual disadvantage appropriate to the spirit in question (consult your GM) for a number of hours equal to your Void Ring.

>R5
When you use your R3 technique, the TN affecting ability lasts until the end of the skirmish. If you activate the technique again while already active, you may change elements. While it is active, if you chose...
...Fire, your attacks gain +2k2 DR as flames wreath them.
...Earth, gain 7 Reduction.
...Air, increase your initiative score by 10 and gain 5 ATN
...Water, gain 1 Free Raise towards any maneuver, and an additional Free Raise towards the Knockdown maneuver.

Numbers probably need a balance pass, but it's one version roughed out pretty quickly.
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>>62443973

Lack of SAA really hurts but it looks kinda cool.
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>>62443973
>>62444154
You could make up for that by tagging them [Monk] which gives them cheap Kiho access. Remember school tags aren’t necessarily what they are in fluff, and can be purely mechanical. Kuni Witch Hunter sets this precedent by also being tagged Monk only for the Kiho access.
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>>62443945
Yes literally that.
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>>62444195
Oh wait I skipped the part where >>62443973 explicitly calls them a monk school. Carry on.
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>>62444154
It's not a Bushi school, it shouldn't be getting SAA anyway. The Dragon monks do because they have a huge kung fu focus that this school doesn't; focus is split between some combat in r1, 3, and 5 and spiritual stuff in 2 and 4.
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>>62444217

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with that. I tend to lean towards weapon-focused schools should likely get SAA because it's so essential a thing for being good at using weapons. It really is disproportionately good.
>>
Dicking around reading the book, found something funny. Cat claws are dmg 0, deadliness 2, concealable, and razor-edged. Concealable trait means you must succeed on a TN 3 design (air) check to know that the character is armed.

The “gritty” rules are actually hilarious. Increase the deadliness of all weapons by 4. If you are bleeding at the end of a scene, you die unless you spend a void point. Bites become deadliness 7, Hawk talons become deadliness 10, housecat claws become deadliness 6. If a high level Kakita bites you, it is very likely you will die. Even a level one Kakita can rip off your arm with his teeth under “gritty”.
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>>62444729
Super gritty man
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>>62444729
Are you saying you don’t want a ridiculous chanbara gore fest where limbs go flying off at the slightest scratch spraying fountains of blood all over the scenery?
Because to me that sounds awesome.
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>>62441137
I haven't been able to play in person for years, so maybe it has skewed my perception. I figured outside of collectors these days folks just preferred pdfs of everything.
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>>62435260
we have 4th ed in extremis conditions, johj.
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>>62443698
>A fairly big fluff change is that non-shugenja can interact with the kami if they're really pious and try hard enough.
I don’t understand where people keep getting the idea this is much of a change at all.
This has always been the case, it’s literally the entire purpose of shrines, rituals, and lay priests in Rokugan and always has been since day 1. The difference is the average person doing a ritual at a shrine is a crapshoot if the Kami will give a damn at all let alone give them a blessing of some kind, while a shugenja can just directly talk to the Kami and ask “hey dude what’s up?” and get a direct answer. The shugenja may or may not actually understand that answer, but they’ll get an answer.

The only real change is that FFG is actually backing up this idea with game mechanics, and making it more than a footnote in the religion passage. Which it being a footnote I guess explains how so many people seem to be making the mistake that this isn’t how things always were supposed to be.
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>>62444769
We’re never getting rid of Wick I guess.

>>62444795
It is both awesome and goofy. A hawk can fly off with anything size zero, so they can fly off with house cats. If a Hawk crits you and you don’t roll any successes on the fitness test, you die an agonizing death.
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>>62443973
I'd make them a single rank monk school (like the Hoshi Tsurui Zumi, but Phoenix aligned) with a later path. Taoist Archers already exist to make them skilled archers.

>Kaito Shrine Keeper
>Devotion: Shintao
>Benefit: +1 Awareness
>Honor: 6.5
>Skills: Athletics, Divination, Jiujutsu, Kyujutsu, Lore: Elements, Lore: Theology, Meditation
>You may detect the presence of kami by spending 10 minutes in meditation and making a roll of Divination / Awareness at TN 25. You may do this a number of times per day equal to your Void Rank. You may call Raises on this roll to learn the following additional information (one piece of information per Raise): the identity of one restless kami of the local region, and its connection to the mortal world. For three Raises, you can gain specific insight into what will pacify the kami. (GM’s discretion as to exactly what you learn, but it will always be directly useful to resolving the kami's unrest in the mortal world.)
(technique straight stolen from The Order Of Peaceful Repose)

> ???
> Rank: 3
> Replaces: Kaito Shrine Keeper 3
> Requires: Kyujutsu 5, Spellcraft 5
> You gain a number of spell slots per day equal to your School Rank. You may only use these slots to store any of the following spells in an arrow; Tempest of Air, Earth's Stagnation, Extinguish, or Yuki's Touch. Spells stored in this manner may be stored indefinitely, but count against your spell slots per day for each day that they continue to await activation. After a successful Kyujutsu attack, the spellcasting roll may be attempted.

Probably not a final.
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>>62444940
>This has always been the case, it’s literally the entire purpose of shrines, rituals, and lay priests in Rokugan and always has been since day 1.
Except in this case, lay people can literally cast spells if they try hard enough. An Akodo Bushi could Jade Strike an oni. It's not just asking for good health and a lack of crop blights anymore.
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>>62442370
>>62442520
make a chart in paint or photoshop, post it, we can save for reference

done
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Tortoise Clan confirmed for GM Kit
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>>62446102
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>>62446117
>No Ninjutsu
Fuck this gay earth
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>>62445978
Is that really the case? So non-Shugenja (Kaito excluded) get access to non-Maho spells?
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>>62445978
Can they? In the beta there was a difference between Rituals and Invocations, where Invocations were spell-like and only shugenja had them, while Rituals were more mundane things like asking for omens or setting up a threshold barrier with salt or ash or the like. Did they change that?
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Akodo Commander 5e: When you succeed at Attack or Support action, can remove strife from self (yay) up to school rank. For each strife removed, add 1 success (yay) and receive 1 fatigue (ouch)

Note the important parts: already successful, Attack, and Support

so this is a win-harder ability so...

This pretty much just applies to hyper-specific contested rolls where successes are compared, and damage, right? I can find little to no other places where margin of success is important.

Opportunity results rather than success results are usually the only margin one is looking for.

I'm unclear whether this ability is meant to do anything other than do damage and reduce strife. Or maybe there's something I'm not understanding about the base mechanics of 5e?
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>>62446610
Sounds like it’s meant to be a combat ability first and foremost, with a little bit of out of combat utility tossed in after.
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>>62435075
Not!Rome when, honorable easterners?
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>>62446758

Not for a long, long time. If ever.
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>>62446765
A man can dream.
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>>62446664
>>62446610

Alright, so I don't have the book, but based on knowledge of FFGs other works in his vein, I assume additional successes are added to base damage with weapons so that's pretty obvious.

What is a Support action, in this case, that might illuminate if the extra success has any bearing?
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>>62446772

I don't get why. They don't really add anything to the setting.
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>>62446827
A Yodotai war would be a hell of a lot more interesting than anything AEG ever wrote passed the Clan Wars.
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>>62446878
Well they did write it after Clan Wars, and no it really wasn't.

To give you an idea, they head of the Yodotai was named Legulus.

Fucking. Legulus.
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>>62446878

Not really. The Yodotai were written as a foe that would require nothing but sheer asspulls to beat and kinda fucked up the entire metaphysics of the stetting by going 'The rokugani gods are also the roman gods and they like the romans more, so rokugani can't use spells to fight these guys'.
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>>62446819
The mass battle section clears a lot of this up. Remember, it’s a commander school.

>Assault: TN2 tactics check. Deal attrition equal to ranks in command plus bonus successes.
>Rally: TN1 command check. Remove 1 panic plus 1 additional per bonus success, plus assist bonus.
>Reinforce: TN2 tactics check. Increase the TN of attacks targeting your cohort by 1, plus 1 for every two bonus successes.

Lion start with water 2 and Akodo can start with water 3. You can use one opportunity to remove a fatigue while in water stance, essentially making the ability free, and since you’re fueling your bonus successes with strife anyway you won’t mind keeping dice showing strife. The Akodo get this bonus on every roll they make in mass combat, with the exception of calling someone out for a duel. It’s niche and won’t come up in every campaign, but they’re the best there is at mass battle.
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>>62447071
Forgot to mention. Assault is an Attack and movement action, Rally is a Support action, and Reinforce is a Movement and Support action.
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>>62435904

>Kitsuki Investigator (now a courtier-bushi hybrid)

...but it already was?
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>>62435075
How's the new system play? They've got a box or something at the FLGS and I'm considering grabbing it since I loved playing the older editions when I had the chance, but I'll probably never get a chance to play or even run the game unless it's got some killer hook to it.

>tfw friends are all D&PF faggots
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>>62446985
>The rokugani gods are also the roman gods and they like the romans more, so rokugani can't use spells to fight these guys

Hol' up.

What the shit is this?
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>>62447263
>What the shit is this?
One of many reasons why it's actually a very good thing AEG sold L5R off.
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>>62447280
Can I get a source? Not because I don't believe you, but this kind of stupidity a man has got to see for himself, you know?
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>>62447071
I expected something as much
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>>62447282
I don't know if it was ever confirmed (I am not the dude that brought it up) but it was a popular fan theory. The only Yodatai god that was drawn looked exactly like Akodo, and one of them drowned herself in the sea
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>>62447263
It's not so much that the gods like them more than the fact that their ancestors cover them in anti-magic and block all foreign spells and curses. Presumably the downside is that they themselves can't use any other sort of magic or supernatural support, since they've never shown any other sort.
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>>62447584
Of course, the big plot hole in this power is that the Yodotai are made up of many cultures that have all been stomped on hard enough to replace them with Yodotai culture, but as shown repeatedly in Rokugan, ancestors are highly stuck in their ways and become offended when things are changed too much, so all those Yodotai ancestors *should* be bucking the system and cursing their descendants for abandoning their ways.
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>>62441927
You become Enraged, which means that all critical strikes you take or deal get +2 severity, and the next time you kill someone, you get a void point.

The Matsu school isn't the only way to get Enraged, but it does make it very easy and heals you in the process.
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>>62447282
Calling it stupidity straight out of the gate is questionable if it's being said reasonably.

L5R was built on a lot of maybes, subjective recounting, and efforts towards revisionist history.

Connecting the dots between 20 years (not really 20) of hints in books and fiction, as well as the fact that the various celestial realms don't operate on the same timelines - not even reliably consistent timelines (which is how you can walk into the mountains in the North and potentially return 5 seconds or 5 decades earlier or later, regardless of your subjective experience of time) - isn't the most direct exercise possible.

That said; Akodo possibly did not die when he shouted a mountain on top of his head. Displeased with the way Rokugan misappropriated his teachings, it's possible he went on to found the Yodotai, supported by his dead siblings against the only asshole who wouldn't get with the program.

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Yodotai
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>>62447825
The idea that they are the same gods is actually neat.

Your magic stops working because your gods like this new faction more is without a doubt stupid.
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>>62447847
>Your magic stops working because your gods like this new faction more is without a doubt stupid.
Eh. It's really easy to present any idea as something stupid. That doesn't mean that it actually is. Just that you have a stupid interpretation.
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>>62447825
Only Akodo was involved with the Yodotai, and he created a new empire because he was fed up with his siblings (Doji and Hantei in particular). That's why he offed them in the Yodotai creation mythos. He was also generally angry at the Rokugani events like his waifu being a dumb bitch and suiciding herself for no benefit.

So Akodo was, like, "I can do a lot better than this!" And he did, the absolute madman.
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>>62448151
>So Akodo was, like, "I can do a lot better than this!" And he did, the absolute madman.

I mean, I'm a bit iffy on 1st Century CE rome being in a good place against 16th Century japan. The Yodotai seem to have stagnated even more than the Rokugani, they just also somehow won against everyone and wiped out all those other cultures that should be more advanced than them.
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>>62448151
>Only Akodo was involved with the Yodotai
That's not true. Each of the ten gods were involved in guiding the Yodotai.
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>>62448358
1st century Rome was several levels ahead of 16th century Japan. The only thing feudal Japan would have over imperial Rome is shitty matchlock guns while Rome would have been considerably better at everything else.
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>>62448372
*The Sea maybe shouldn't be counted as 'guiding' the Yodotai ... but that depends on your point of view. Certainly was a strong shaping force.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140404085632/http://www.yoonbrian.com/Projects/Yodotai.htm

>“Ten sons and daughters of Earth and Sky,” Gaius said with a respectful gesture toward the sky.

>I shook my head. It all sounded so familiar. “What are their names?”

>“We do not know,” Gaius replied.

>I frowned. “Why not?”

>“It is forbidden to know the names of the gods. To do so would draw the ire of Caelus. He is still angry at their betrayal. So we do not name them.”

>“So the children of Sky and Earth were thrown from heaven for their impertinence,” I said. “What happened to them?”

>“The gods had their link to immortality severed permanently by the father. They fell from the sky.” Gaius shrugged. “Most did not survive the impact.”

>“Your gods died when they fell to the earth?” I asked.

>“Yes,” Gaius said.

>“Such a bloody tale, my friend,” I said. “The Rokugani believe a similar tale, but the Kami lived for many years after they came to our land. They went on to create society and honor. We are who we are because of the Kami.”

>“We are a bloody people, Jin-Sahn,” Gaius replied. “Do not pity us. Our gods may have died, but they did not leave us without guidance.”
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>>62448358
>they just also somehow won against everyone
The Yodotai have strong magic that allows their ancestors to fight alongside them or negate the magics used by their enemies, and the guidance of Kami-equivalent gods directed purely towards conquering. Wasn't really a "somehow".
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>>62448435

That and the devil's own luck. The people with better technology than them died of disease. They hard counter the guys with better magic. To be frank, they sorta read like a bad fanfiction faction added purely to have all the advantages over their opposition.
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>>62448471
It's possible to read them as a response to other civilisations the ten children of the gods established using death, reincarnation, travel between celestial realms, etc. to have these groups exist consecutively from their perspective, but concurrently within the lore of the world.

Meaning that the day Akodo died by Rokugani reckoning was the day he basically gave up on Rokugan achieving the potential he was looking for, and the Yodotai are the means of wiping the slate clean. I don't know what you'd create to do that, but I'd train people who can fuck everyone's shit right up. Taking that a step further, it's possible that seriously unlucky plague for the guys with guns wasn't purely by accident.
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>>62448524
>Taking that a step further, it's possible that seriously unlucky plague for the guys with guns wasn't purely by accident.

That doesn't really make it better. They still read way, way too much like 'new serious business guys' fanfiction, with how they try to stress them constantly as better at everything/flat negating the advantages of others. The idea of somehow perfectly assimilating people they conquer, how the Yodokai never have internal wars, how they always perfectly work out the other guys secrets but never get their own worked out and how their system for magic makes them hard counter everyone who does use magic (And that somehow makes the other guys unable to use said magic logistically or strategically instead of tactically).

They don't read like a natural people and they don't really read like Romans, they read like roman fanfiction.
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>>62448471
>The people with better technology than them died of disease.

Those people were literally on the other side of the world as the Yodotai, on a whole different continent.
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>>62448574
>perfectly assimilating people they conquer
This is explained. They basically kill everyone who doesn't play ball, and take all their kids (killing everyone who resists) to be raised as Yodotai. Three generations in and the old culture isn't even a thing anymore.
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>>62446244
>>62446253
>>62445978
No. In the rules, only Shugenja have access to spells. Bushi do not. I don't know what this faggot is talking about.
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>>62449022

There is a new monk school that breaks that rule. Mind you, they 'break' that rule by being straddling the line between militaristic shugenja and particularly spiritual monks.
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>>62449096
That is a big difference between this and "Akodo Bushi can now Jade Strike."
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>>62449096
sounds a bit like the 4e Tamori warrior-priest
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>>62449122

That can also happen BUT it requires a particular chargen option (It gives you 1 technique of any sort, regardless of your school). Which in that case it generally means 'You've some shugenja talent that somehow went unnoticed until too late'.
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>>62449175

More archery focused but not too far off, yeah.
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>>62449178

Is not that the equivalent in 5e to inheritance table?

Inheritance tables always had options that broke school rules.
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>>62449264
>Is not that the equivalent in 5e to inheritance table?

Pretty much, yeah. So while there is ways to get spells in 5e it's not really anything too new. Stuff on a class's table overrules the usual chargen rules (For example, while Mantis Bushi don't get access to Ninjitsu in general they have the stealth one on their table so they can take it anyway) and there is a few edge cases that get you stuff outside of your school.
>>
On the beginner box, characters are allowed to costumize their daisho - and in fact, the Hida and Shinjo are given alternative sets entirely (tetsubo + wakizashi; scimitar, wakizashi, bow and arrow)

Are daisho more open to school/family/clan/personal choice or like the other editions locked to Katana + Wakizashi?
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>>62449122
The Akodo Bushi can actually produce Jade Strike via the Commune with Spirits Ritual. It will just take him a downtime activity rather than an action.
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>>62449441
Most clans have standard daisho, but Dragon and Unicorn have some alternatives:

• Mirumoto can swap their katana out for two rarity 6 or lower weapons
• Kitsuki don't start with a daisho, but they always get a wakizashi and can get a jian.
• Moto get a scimitar instead of a katana.
• Shinjo and Utaku get either a katana or scimitar.

Personally, I'd be inclined to let Shiba swap their katana out for a chokuto.
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>tfw i realize that shugenja are only marginally worse at fighting than bushi
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>>62449815
At least they are not outright better until Rank 3/4.
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>>62449844
Shugenja get their SAA equivalent from Rank 1 and it only gets stronger as time goes on.
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>>62449505
A Shiba without a naginata just feels wrong.
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>>62450385
Oh, they get a naginata or yari in their starting kit. I was just talking about the daisho here.
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According to the Doji school, and the best reductionist interpretation, a low ranking Crane samurai and a pony are of equivalent worth.
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>>62451690

Clearly not decided by a unicorn, they'd tell you the pony is worth more.
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>>62449815
are you implying there's somekind of caster supremacy going on?
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>>62451796
More like there's a bushi mediocrity going on.
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>>62451825
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm reading this, you can stack up Kata because many of them let you spend Opportunities differently while making another check, which could be a Kata action, while most Invocations are actions unto themselves., with few or no add-ons
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>>62452259
Talking 4e.
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What do I pick at character creation to make this cutie?
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>>62449441
>>62449505
Seems odd. A daisho is supposed to be a paired daito and shoto, that's where the word comes from. They don't have to be a katana and wakizashi, but they should at the very least be two swords, not at least two weapons of any type.
>>
Are bows viable in this game? I was thinking of making a Doji Diplomat who's only combat skills were a bow.
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>>62452771
4e or 5e?
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>>62452792
5e sorry. I don't have a book but my GM does. I wanted to have an idea of what I wanted to play before we got together.
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>>62452918
>5e
Who knows? 5e's not even out yet.
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>>62452962
It came out yesterday...
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>>62453020
How do you expect people to know what's viable or not this soon?
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>>62452962
I'm literally holding the core book in my hand.
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>>62453039
If you don't have a book, or don't have an opinion, you don't have to answer my question.
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>>62452918
Then ask your GM.
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>>62452771
There are kata for ranged attacks, so presumably yes.
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>>62453157

So what is a kata per say? just a combat technique as opposed to a ninjutsu or a ritual, etc? Are all the symbol abilities basically the same except with different categories.
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>>62454127
Yes Kata are the bushi techniques as opposed to ninjutsu or kiho. Invocations and Kihos are actions but most katas are either an additional way to spend opportunity or bonus for using a weapon type, they usually care about stance as well.
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>>62454207
Some of them are actions themselves, but often special attacks or maneuvers.
For example, there's a kata for iaijutsu drawing and attacking in the same action, and it is an "attack" action (So it qualifies for other kata to modify its Opportunities), but it's not really a standard attack and calculates its damage in a special way.
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>>62452771
Bows don’t suck, if that’s what you’re asking. They don’t have the raw damage of a tesubo or the deadliness of a katana , but they’re pretty safe and the different arrows give you some flexibility. Just participating in combat as a courtier is better than hanging around. You’ll likely have air 3 as Crane and if you miss you can use opportunity to drop TNs for your allies. Teamwork makes the dream work, make yourself useful in combat and I guarantee your bushi bros will assist you in court.

What’s the concept? Mono clan, magistrates? I was in an all Crane game during beta, but my comrades took soft hearted so I had to go it alone and they would flip out when I did my job. The job I was doing on their account because they hid behind my Kakita skirts after talking shit.
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>>62454558
I really like the Crane character from the beginner game, I was just thinking about basically remaking that character with the full game rules.
>>
Are Rings still king in 5e or are skills actually worth taking?
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>>62454127
Skill dice are more likely to give good results than Ring dice, so skills are absolutely worth it in 5E.
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>>62454634
I played the Hida, got second place but 15 contest points. My unicorn buddy won, but he didn’t get stabbed or have to duel the Crane. It should be simple to re-make him, you’ll need an additional advantage and disadvantage but the skills and rings should be close to identical. Air 3 Fire/Water2 right? Air ring isn’t the powerhouse it was in 4th but it’s still good.

>>62454949
Skill dice are better but you want the rings for kept dice. Both cap at 5. Skill dice are far better if you have a relevant advantage for re-rolls. You can try for rings only but you’ll pick up strife like a motherfucker, not even water/earth strife drops can keep pace with that kind of heat.
>>
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So how's this play? Is it similar to any of the other RPGs FFG has gameplay-wise?
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>>62455218
Eh, kinda. It's not the same as the Star Wars or Genesys systems, but it's got its own custom dice with different non-number faces that basically fill the same role.
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>>62455218
It's quite different from preexisting games in general. You can see bits of other Fantasy Flight RPGs, but you can also see bits of old L5R, and even a dash of FATE Accelerated, of all things, with how Rings work now.
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>>62455290
>>62455386
Sounds cool, should I wait for the 5e pdfs before diving in, or?

Also, how setting-dependant is the system?
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>>62455427
>how setting-dependant is the system?
Very. I mean, you could strip the names off of things like classes, but the system is built for this setting. It incorporates this setting's particular style and limitations in how characters act and how the world works.
>>
>>62454127
There are in effect 2 mechanical Technique types (Action Techniques and Opportunity Techniques) and (currently) 7 Technique sub groups (Kata (martial arts techniques), Kiho (monk ki techniques), Invocations (spells), Maho (evil spells), Ninjutsu (ninja techniques), Rituals (spiritual ceremonies) and Shuji (verbal/social techniques)).

Action Techniques, such as Iaijutsu Cut:Rising Blade and most spells, give new actions that can be performed while Opportunity Techniques give new ways to spend opportunity on various checks.

>>62454949
I think there is a better balance in 5e. Rings determine how many d6s you roll and number of kept dice while Skills determine number of d12s rolled.

The d6s have a 50% chance of a Success or Explosion but 2/3rds of the Success/Explosions sides have Strife on them. They also have a 1/3 chance of an Opportunity but 50% of those have Strife.

The d12s have a 7/12 chance of a Success or Explosion with 3/7 Success/Explosion sides having Strife. 4 sides have Opportunity, one of which is also a Success, with no Opportunity side having Strife.

>>62455427
While setting is heavily built into the system, in theory it is fairly easy to genericize the various schools, families and techniques for pseudo-Japanese settings because of how much of L5R is built of Feudal Japan Archetypes.
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>>62455471
>>62455628
Alright, thanks. Where do I begin?
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>>62455713
There's a shit ton of old lore, but FFG did a reboot, so I guess you'd just start with the core book. The Emerald Empire book is next, as is tradition, and that's the one that has a lot of setting info. EE 4th edition is where you'd go for AEG's old version of the setting.
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>>62455713
Damn, that art gave me a good idea for a character. A girl who's brother dies and she has to pretend to be him for some reason. Though getting found out would probably be a massive honor loss.
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>>62455427
>Also, how setting-dependant is the system?

As >>62455628 said, it's very setting-dependent. I intend to use it for a setting based on Wars-of-the-Three-Kingdoms-Era Ireland and Britain, but I need to partially build the setting around the system, and to create entirely new schools. I'm doing it because I like some of the system's ideas and enjoy the challenge, not because the system is amenable to hacking.
>>
Anyone else notice FFG took their links to DriveThruRPG down?
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>>62456109
Beta's still there, though.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/223045
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>>62456191
True, but it begs the question if they are going to release the pdf of the core rulebook on drivethru or on their own site, or not at all.
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>>62456459
According to Katrina Ostrander, they sent the PDF to Drivethru, and when it comes out is now in Drivethru's hands.
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>>62456675
Ah, fair. Anyone know a rough estimated timeline for that?
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>>62456853
Nope. Genesys took two weeks, and apparently even Fantasy Flight don't know how long this one will take.
>>
Strongest 4e school?
>>
Are there stats for kamas yet?
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>>62458571

Actually, better general question, what's the equipment list?
>>
Is 4chan going to have a pdf before the official one even comes out? :thinking:

:( come on drivethru
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>>62458571
Yep; they're in the core. Low enough damage and deadliness, can be used at 0-1 range, concealable, reasonably available, and cheap for a metal weapon.
>>
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>>62458625
Okay, let's go:

Swords:
• Bokken
• Chokuto (like a katana, but straight)
• Dao (yep, we've got some Chinese stuff; I approve)
• Gao (hook sword)
• Jian
• Katana (OF COURSE!)
• Nodachi
• Scimitar
• Wakizashi
• Zanbato

Axes:
• Masakari (one-handed utility axe)
• Ono (two-handed war axe)

Blunt:
• Club
• Hammer
• Kiseru (smoking pipe)
• Otsuchi (two-handed warhammer)
• Testubo (Always Be Crabbing)

Hand weapons:
• Jitte
• Knife
• Ninchaku
• Tessen

Polearms:
• Bisento (wide scimitar blade on a stick)
• Bo (a stick)
• Ji (dagger-axe crossed with spear; kind of like an extra-stabby halberd)
• Naginata
• Trident
• Yari

Bows:
• Daikyu (big ol' horse-archery bow)
• Horsebow (small ol' horse-archery bow)
• Yumi (big ol' not-on-a-horse-archery bow)

Specialist:
• Blowgun
• Kama
• Kusarigama
• Shuriken

Unarmed:
• Punch
• Kick
• Bite

Also, have the main melee weapon chart.
>>
>>62458839
Dammit, forgot the Crab crossbow called an oyumi. There's a crossbow. It's called an oyumi. The Crab use it.
>>
>>62458839

So I take is Range 0 is like ultra-close "our dicks are basically touching" range, as opposed to Ranged 1 which is the normal "I can hit you with a stick" range.
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>>62458884
More or less. 0 is punching range, 1 is sword range.
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>>62458839
Thanks anon.
Could you post the other weapons chart?
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>>62452617
Phoenix is the clan with the Shrine Maidens
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>>62458954
Yes.
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>>62459074
Here, have some armour as well.
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>>62459074
>>62459108
Thanks anon
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>>62458839

Can we get a rundown on item qualities? From experience with FFG I can guess at least in what vein stuff like Prepare, Concealable, Cumbersome, Snaring, etc mean, but what does Wargear, Mundane, Ceremonial mean in this case?
>>
>>62459021

Well, there is also the Centipede (But they are descended from the phoenix so no surprises there).
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>>62458839
Sorry if this is a dumb question but how are weapon skills split up? If I'm good with a sword am I good with a spear?
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>>62459154
Wargear is weapons that makes people think you're there for a fight, whether you are or not.

Mundane is stuff you can pretend is just a tool (or is really just a tool, used violently)

Ceremonial means you're allowed to carry it most anywhere, and also serves as a means of identification.
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>>62459174

Melee, ranged.
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>>62459154
Wargear means that openly carrying that is considered a declaration of violence. No one walks around wearing full armor and carrying a big stick unless they're going to go do some serious fighting. Ceremonial means that the item has connotations beyond just its physical form, and can sometimes be carried in places where you otherwise wouldn't be allowed to take a weapon.
Mundane items are seen everywhere and never raise eyebrows, although strict no-weapons policies won't overlook a mundane knife just because everyone in the building owns one.
>>
>>62459154
If I recall from the playtest (correct me if I'm wrong) but Ceremonial basically means that you aren't allowed to use this if you're not of the samurai class and mundane means that folks of the samurai class typically don't use them, with a few exceptions (mantis with kama for example)
>>
>>62459154
>Wargear: inappropriate for most social context, makes people nervous, impedes diplomacy. When someone suffers strife from a character wearing wargear, they suffer one more strife.
Mundane: Commonly seen, nobody really notices but do note that you are armed. Peasant weapons, traveling clothes.
Ceremonial: Decked out, belongs to somebody in particular. Reduce the TN to pass as that person by one. Loose honor if done without permission.
>>
>>62459203
Ignore this I am just wrong apparently
>>
>>62459174
Melee/Ranged/Unarmed, though the book does have guidelines for making things more granular. Martial skills also include Fitness (for resisting crits), Tactics (for Initiative), and Meditation (for... using kiho, I suppose?).
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>>62459240
Meditation also governs duel initiative, and sometimes acts like a Will save.
>>
>>62459108

I do sorta wish we got more armour with supernatural. It's a cool thing and I could totally see 'Temple Guard' armour with Physical 3, Supernatural 3, Ceremonial, Cumbersome, Wargear for example.
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>>62459258
I remembered the duelling part after I posted it. I should've remembered it sooner, as I was the one who summarised the duel mechanics earlier.
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>>62459288

It's still just the core book, you can expect to see that sort of stuff as more sourcebooks come out, items which might be particular to a specific clan, family, school, region, whatever or stuff that's more specialized to a type of character will crop up to give you a few new options.
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Can anyone tell me what the point of using a Void Point to take a crit on yourself is?
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>>62459502
Depends on the weapon. Don’t Take a crit from a katana, but a tesubo crit isn’t that bad if the alternative is 8 fatigue.
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Some promo images of pregen characters made with options in upcoming Emerald Empire
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>>62459288
We got extra armor in the free PDF they did. We will definitely get some in the other books
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>>62435075

My word, this card game.

The patrician's choice. I see OP is a man of fine taste.
>>
>>62459543
>>62459347

Oh yeah, I'm fully expecting we will. It's just a nice area for future expansion I hope they play with (As it's not just a progression from lighter to heavier armour).
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>>62459171
Strictly speaking, any clan will have shrine maidens in its non-samurai population. Phoenix and Centipede are merely unusual for having samurai in those roles.
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>>62459768
The others probably have samurai shrine maidens as well, they just don't have dedicated Families and Schools for it.
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>>62448574
>They don't read like a natural people and they don't really read like Romans, they read like roman fanfiction.
I mean, Rokugan reads like a really bad 1990’s understanding of Japanese culture turned into fan fiction so...not really that jarring in that particular regard.
>>
What's the best way to fuck with the Scorpions?
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>>62459836
Completely ignore their attempts at deception and subterfuge. When they rearrange the paper walls in the night to confuse you, walk directly from point A to point B and if anyone dares to question it, say that someone accidentally put screens where doors should have been and you graciously resolved the issue for them. Refuse to speak with one in private without at least two other samurai from non-scorpion clans in attendance. Ignore their letters. Snap the neck of anyone you find in the rafters above you at night and leave the corpse outside your room for the servants to clean up. Don't play along with their bullshit.
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>>62459836
Send the servant you like the least out on a secret mission to deliver a scroll full of gibberish to a person you don't actually know.
>>
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>>62459836
Get them pissed at you, then save their lives.
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Can book-chan bless us with image of matsu and/or ronin school T_T
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>>62460223
Ara... Book-chan. I hope he notices me
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Hello, fellow nobles! What's going on in this thr-?
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>>62460332

Baka gaijin, this is a thread about grorious Rokugan, not some shit civiriation that nobody cares about.
>>
Has anyone been able to successfully run a multiple clans campaign? Most of the major clans have some degree of distrust or enmity towards another that doesn't seem viable unless they somehow fight under a single banner or have a common foe or crisis.
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>>62460670
Emerald magistrates or imperial legion campaigns usually work with multiple clans
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>>62460670

That doesn't prevent people from multiple clans being friends and working together when something happens.
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>>62459836
Become their friend
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>>62459809
I don't think they would. Who would you put in that position? Bushi and courtiers don't have time to be temple attendants, they have other matters to attend to. Meanwhile if you have the shugenja talent, you're destined for a more significant role in your clan's religious hierarchy than to be a shrine keeper. The only way I can see most clans putting samurai in that role is if it's something shugenja in training do during their schooling pre-gempukku-- with the Dragon maybe being an exception, given their blending of samurai and monk roles.
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>>62459961
Made me laugh. Even if they pierce the deception, you still wasted their time.
>>
>>62459961
"Ito, my servant, bring this message to the host of the tea house please"
>Scorpion go into action to steal important message! Then spends a month trying to figure out what 'The peacock crows twice at midnight under the apricot tree' means.
>>
So, still no scans, huh?
>>
>>62461701

Might depend on the prominence of the shrine. Don't know about specifics in Rokugan, but certain specific shrines in Japan are very important historically and spiritually.

If we're saying "shrine maiden" though as basically an english translation for "miko", that's a word which historically in japan could also be used for "female shaman" and could be attached or unattached to a specific shrine. But yeah, a lot of the shamanism practices and initiation could just be seen as a form of shugenja training and they also maybe give you the religious equivalent of grunt work.
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>>62461890

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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>>62462022
What did I say?
>>
>>62462430
Let me clarify that I'm asking because if nobody's scanned it and the PDF won't be out soon, I'll scan the damn thing myself.
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>>62462690

ヘ(´° □°)ヘ┳━┳

I believe in you, anon-sama
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>>62462690
That would be very honorable indeed anon-sama
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>>62459530
They got some damn form fillable character sheets.
We need them
>>
What do you anons think of the strife system and unmasking in 5E? From what I understand it feels like it forces you roleplay a certain way.
>>
>>62463167
In the beta it went from "shitty mechanic forcing you to roleplay a certain way" to "tutorial mechanic encouraging you to roleplay a certain way that quickly stops mattering."
Can't say for sure how it turned out in the full release.
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>>62463167
people make it out to be a big thing, while not even looking at the lots of things which can reduce your strife.
I think strife is a good part of the roll and keep system to force the players to make some interesting decisions.

See it as some kind of mental or physical damage.
If the "forced roleplay" bit doesnt fit your bill talk to your GM about it, there are easy solutions if you dislike the system.

Strife is a good mechanic for the people that like those spontaneous forced reactions, which mental health system can bring with them.
For those who dislike this it is easy to mitigate, avoid or even change it
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>>62463613
>while not even looking at the lots of things which can reduce your strife
Actually one of the complaints of Strife is how it gets so easy to manage the whole mechanic loses relevancy and just becomes pointless bookkeeping.
>>
>>62463070
>>62462825
Well, what I'm worried about is if I get the damn pdf up and then it's for sale on DTRPG. Did Fantasy Flight really say it's up to them now?
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>>62463639
Looking at Genesys it could easily be one or two more weeks until it goes up there.
I would really appreciate your work
>>
I haven't played the LCG yet due to this game not too popular here but do you guys think they'll make someone like Chagatai Exp 4 for Unicorn again?
>>
>>62459897
>How to disgrace your Lord: the post.

If it was that easy, nobody would have problems with the Scorpion. Your only option is to play along with their bullshit. Also

>Snap the neck of anyone you find in the rafters above you at night and leave the corpse outside your room for the servants to clean up.
It's like you want to commit sepukku.
>>
>>62463639
Don't destroy your book anon.
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>>62463626
If that's the case then why use it at all?
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>>62463975
Good question.
>>
Can someone explain to me if it's worth it to wear armor in the rpg? I can see that wearing light armor or heavy armor increases the TN to do things by 5 or 10. It seems like it'd be vaguely better to go without armor and declare two raises.

Unless you're going up against multiple people at once, in which case you're likely already dead?
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>>62464014
What edition? If you're talking about 4e the things the TN increase actually apply to are so irrelevant it's kind of stupid to not wear armor outside of situations where it'd be socially improper.
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>>62464036
4th edition
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>>62464062
Then yeah, the TN penalties are all but irrelevant.
>>
>>62460223
I'd rather not post a picture of the school pages because a lot of the school info is meaningless unless you have the technique chapter.

I'll instead summarise the school techniques, and anything they interesting they get early.

Matsu Berserker:
• School ability triggers when you unmask or get critted. You lose fatigue equal to your rank and become Enraged. "Enraged" give all crits you deal or take +2 Severity.
• Mastery ability lets you spend a void point while Enraged to make all you successes on an attack roll explode.
• Nearly all of their curriculum shuji are fire, with the notable exception of Stonewall Tactics, the "taunt" shuji.

Worldly Ronin:
• School ability lets you pick one skill per rank to make a "bonus curriculum skill". These skills always count as part of your school curriculum, and you can ignore one strife symbol on any rolls with the.
• Mastery lets you raise your bonus skills to 6.
• This school is actually a bushi-courtier hybrid, with "rank 1-[this rank] kata" on the curriculum at odd ranks, and ""rank 1-[this rank] shuji" at even.
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>>62464161
Wait, so does this mean for the first time in four editions that ronin do not automatically suck or are irrelevant?

Does that mean it's possible for a ronin to be a badass like a great clan samurai?
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>>62464190
>Wait, so does this mean for the first time in four editions that ronin do not automatically suck or are irrelevant?
You've never seen the 3e ronin, huh?
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>>62464199
I have not. Although I was under the impression that ronin being irrelevant was always the case? The only tales I know from 3e that mirumoto bushi used to be monsters?
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>>62464224
In 3e the ronin schools also doubled as "generic" bushi/courtier/shugenja/duelist schools. They ended up being on par with the great clan schools, and if I remember correctly until they released 3e Revised the Ronin Duelist was second only to the Kakita Kenshinzen advanced school as the best duelist school in the game.
The fact the 3e ronin were so good is one of the reasons they suck so much in 4e, a knee-jerk overcorrection.
>>
We've hit the bump limit (I'm so proud of yous), so I started a new thread over at >>62464326
>>
Just post scans of techniques and schools pls.
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>>62463626
My main complaint over 5e is how purposefully insular the segment of the community who support it seem from the outside - against anyone who might appreciate L5R under AEG, or see issues with L5R under FFG. To the point where they have their own established ideas on "the usual complaints people have about 5e", and they don't properly represent the complaints levelled at 5e from outside their bubble.
>>
>>62464190
There are ways to build good ronin in 4e. The main issue to overcome in getting people to see that is establishing that the core book water chapter is not automatically for PCs, and Enemies of the Empire is definitely intended for GMs. After that point, it's mainly suggesting that the story of becoming a ronin is as interesting as what happens after - and any samurai can become a ronin.





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