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>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/.

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ

Resources for Third Edition
>3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

>Other Ex3 Resources
https://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu

>NPCs
https://pastebin.com/hXmnSesQ

Previous thread: >>62853117

Let's dsicuss this, anons: http://theonyxpath.com/the-lunar-exalted-exalted/
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>>62914711
Discord talk says you can choose raksi as a valid mentor without things getting super weird this time around, so that's nice
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>>62914392
They'll probably be rewritten to be less "offensive".
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>>62914772
How would things be "weird" with Raksi? All she wants of her students is to eat people. You know what you're getting into with her as a mentor because she's pretty open about the whole "I eat babies" thing.
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>>62915007
>Just wants them to eat people
>Not weird
Anon I.....
>>
>>62915085
Well, when her peers are a goatfucker chimera with actual rape camps who believes he's hideous because he has goat legs, a guy who has been "I'M SAD"-ing at the bottom of the sea for what is likely over 2,000 years and fucking whales (and I don't mean fat chicks), eating babies is probably the most "normal" of the them.
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>>62915224
The human mind isn't meant to handle two thousand years of sitting around. Shit tends to get wibbly with that much time and without the grounding of peers.
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>>62915085
Lunars eat the heart's blood of people all the time, so what if one is a baby?
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>>62915264
You're not human if you're an Exalt.
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>>62915273
Well, babies aren't very useful shapes! There's at least a good reason to take that young cute girl from the local village and devour her heart; then you can infiltrate the village.

Babies are just... kinda not useful.
>>
>>62915224
I mean, I don't doubt you'd get used to it sure, I'm just saying if I was a newbie lunar and got brought into the pact I might seriously consider just going off and learning sorcery on my own if the major teacher was expecting me to eat babies
>>62915273
I don't know how to explain that most people consider child murder worse then regular murder
>>
>some envision the redemption of the Dragon Blooded as divine soldiers of the Pact.

Could you build a villainous lunar on that?
>>
>>62915424
On the subjugation of Dragonblooded? Yeah, absolutely. The question is how they get it to work.
>>
In scifi or modern exalted do you think an exaltation would change someone's DNA and if so how much?

>>62915455
Rape Camps
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>>62915538
>>62915455

Not even Rape Camps, look at the Ottoman Empire and its Jannisary soldiers. The Jannisaries themselves were treated well and given a privileged position by the Ottomans, but there's something irretrievably fucked about conscripting and indoctrinating the children of enemy ethnic groups and sending them out to kill their parents, brothers, and sisters.
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>>62915325
>I'm just saying if I was a newbie lunar and got brought into the pact I might seriously consider just going off and learning sorcery on my own if the major teacher was expecting me to eat babies
Well, if your choice is stick pinecones up your ass until mystical knowledge is yours, or study with someone who is one of the actual greatest sorcerers in Creation with the downside of maybe needing to eat some babyback ribs, you could probably deal with it given it's a much faster track to power and not everyone has that chance, plus as a Lunar you'll probably end up eating people anyway at some point for heartsblood.

I can't believe I fucked up typing this twice. This is what I get for being distracted.
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>>62914711
Overall it looks interesting. I like that the Lunars themselves are a big mess in terms of shared goals, with the only mutual agreement being "the Realm needs to die"
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>>62915633
I dislike they're still basically worthless to the setting. They've went from:
>lol the wyld broke us
>and we did nothing this entire time since the FA
Tooooooo:
>lol we broke ourselves
>also we made Caul and did nothing else the entire time since the FA
It REALLY feels like they're just completely shitting on how meaningful Celestials are supposed to be when the BEST the Lunars could manage as the most numerous Celestial type, over thousands of years, could do is "Yeah, at least the Realm is ONLY the biggest superpower in Creation". This hardly sounds like the things of legend and terrors of Creation, this sounds like a bunch of sad, moronic losers.
>>
So, I heard somewhere that Lunar Ride charms are going to apply both when they're riding an animal and when they've been mounted by a rider. How crazy do you think a Solar/Lunar battle couple both abusing the fuck out of Ride charms will be?
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>>62915729
That should be appropriately unstoppable, but you'd need a source beyond "I heard" for this anon.
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>>62915747
It was in the "ask the devs" thread on the OPP forums but good luck wading through it to find the actual quote
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>>62915455
Beastman dragonblooded breeding programs/rape camps
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>>62915777
Yeah, that thread is a mess for all time.
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>>62915723
>lol we broke ourselves
>also we made Caul and did nothing else the entire time since the FA
They didn't do "nothing". Even the article they just released specifically says the Sidereals and DBs have taken as much as they have as a struggle against the Lunars, and the Lunars are the reason they haven't expanded further.

As for why they haven't murderfucked the Realm yet, try pitting a Solar or Lunar against 5 DBs sometime. Quantity has a quality all its own, and there's literally only 400 Lunar exalts at any given time.

>>62915747
>>62915777
I heard it on the Discord, myself. Pic related.

Just imagine A solar rider going into battle on the back of an enormous lunar, maybe in the shape of a Tyrant Lizard.
>>
>>62915623
But those aren't my only options. I'm a lunar, there are plenty of things for me to go and do, from raiding first age tombs to stealing/bargining for the secrets from other sorcerers and spirits and so on
Don't get me wrong, yes just dealing with it is clearly the better choice, and tons of lunars probably would, but asking that of the real world players probably isn't going to go over well. It behoves them to make the lunar elders less wacky/creepy overall if only because otherwise many players are going to treat the pact as just this group of weirdos who aren't to be taken seriously or engaged with.
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>>62915904
>It behoves them to make the lunar elders less wacky/creepy overall
It really doesn't. The Lunar elders are all wacky/creepy because they're bugfuck nuts. They should remain so, because having the choice to do terrible things for power is completely in theme for the game.
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>>62915723
They're active though, both against the Realm and the Sidereals. Like, they have been playing the same game Yurgen Kaneko has been doing, but for centuries.
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>>62915965
It is, but it should not take precedence over others and be the only choice the lunars have. The only even kinda normal lunar elders are levithan and Lilith, and even those are kinda questionable. That doesn't help the perception of lunars being fuckwits who sit around doing nothing and it actively works against presenting them as some sort of unified group as most players won't engage with that sort of thing. Having them all be like that damages the line as a whole. It's totally fine to have weird people from the first age who've grown into monsters with their age, but to make every single lunar elder like that is dumb
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>>62915611
I like it, but it's a little difficult with dragon blooded. They only become dragon blooded as young adults and they are harder to indoctrinate.
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>>62916112
So then add new Lunars who aren't fucked in the head from thousands of years of the GC and Wyld mutations.

Also I love how people always prop up "muh Sids" as if they're not just as fucking insane as the rest of the elder Exalt's in the setting. Perhaps moreso, because they have the highest concentration of old dudes hanging around, and they're the inmates running the asylum.
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>>62916288
Which is why you grab them early, pre-Exaltation. If they don't Exalt, so be it, the investment is worth it and you can always take credit for their Exaltation, further enhancing their cult-like devotion to you.
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>>62916306
That works too, yeah. I just don't want your ONLY options for cool lunar mentors to be either weird assholes, losers, or plain old villians.
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>>62916395
Thats always been the tradeoff in Exalted to a degree though. Anyone who is old enough to teach you good shit is also crazy enough that they're almost as much of a hazard as they are a help. So you either go full native and embrace the crazy, or you seek lesser means of instruction.
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>>62916442
Not really. There are plenty of old fucks who are just fine. Or, at the very least, morally questionable/weird and yet still presented in a serious or sympathetic light resulting in a character you can treat seriously and deal with rather then being something as totally cartoonish as 'also they eat babies'
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>>62914711
What's the best way to go about playing a mortal campaign?
>inb4 exalt partway through the game
>inb4 use weak enemies
Nope, weak enemies are acceptable at the beginning but absolutely no exaltations and eventually the mortals have to take on the same kind of threats a solar might be expected to take on. This might mean that they die and have to make new characters, but that's an acceptable outcome.

So how would you go about? What kind of tone should the story have, and how should the mortal PC's be encouraged to overcome their weaknesses and defeat the villains?
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Oh. Nishkriya is getting blocked it seems
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>>62916782
Have them create an organization and recruit exalted to take care of things for them
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>>62916782
They all become sorcerers.
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>>62916783
It's because the OPP forum itself is crapping out and they don't want Nishkriya to cause even more issues by scraping from it.
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There are different Martial Arts abilities for each style?
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>>62916783
>>62916954
What is Nishkriya?
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>>62916968
Just like Craft, yes
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>>62916977
Site that automatically gathered and updated any dev posts
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>>62916977
A dev-tracker that keeps track of comments the Devs make on the official forums. Good for tracking what they say in the Ask the Devs thread.

It might be shutting down though due to issues with the official forum itself.
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>>62916999
That is so GODDAMN stupid. I was homebrewing MA styles and noticed the implication in the textbox for mixing Martial Arts styles. Why would anyone build a Martial Artist then?
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>>62917032
Because everyone ignores that like the 4 dot merit just to be able to learn Martial Arts dots
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>>62916782
>What's the best way to go about playing a mortal campaign?
By playing D&D. Seriously, Exalted is not the game for this. It's boring as fuck to play a mortal.
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>>62917032
The thing is, Martial Arts use Solar XP. You progress twice as fast if you double into it with regular XP. If you're a social character who wants to focus on social charms, you can instead invest your Solar XP into MA so you have some competence in fighting without detracting from your central focus.
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>>62917149
Except you don't progress twice as fast. You have to

1: Pay for the ability to use MA in the first place
2: Pay for every MA skill separately
3: Pay for MA Charms which may not mesh together well at all, leaving you weaponless.
4: Be stuck with Charms that are wholly inferior to actual Solar Charms.

It's just shit.
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>>62917141
That sounds like a quitter's attitude. It is not the setting that is at fault, it is your bad reaction to adversity. If the enemies are strong, then your conviction to defeat them must be even stronger.
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>>62917032
Because charm for charm Martial arts have some of the most powerful charms in the game, and you can buy them and the extra ability dots with Solar XP
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>>62916782
>and eventually the mortals have to take on the same kind of threats a solar might be expected to take on.

I can't see this working. A mortals game is fine if they focus on mortal level threats, such as hungry ghosts and other mortals. But if you set them to fighting Octavian or something, the best solution is to run away and recruit the help of someone who can fight at Octavian's level.

Fighting Octavian? As a mortal? That's a good way to obtain death or Exaltation.

The other option is to simply have them never fight an enemy Exalt directly, but simply use social and exploit their intimacies. This is something the Guild has been doing for centuries: finding out what Exalts want, and manipulating them based on those wants.
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>>62917214
>adversity
>anyone of note you will ever fight will literally be able to delete you from the setting by blinking
>anything you do can be completely overwritten by forces you can't stop
Sounds real fun there, anon. Totally worth getting invested in.
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>>62917269
Sure, if you're fighting in a fair 1 vs 1 duel a mortal will undoubtably lose to just about anything in the setting. But there's no reason to fight fair, is there?
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>>62917218
>Because charm for charm Martial arts have some of the most powerful charms in the game
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>>62917202
>1: Pay for the ability to use MA in the first place
A four dot merit at chargen.

>2: Pay for every MA skill separately
Progressing in those trees twice as quickly once you have the dots. Separate siloing of skills is a balance method, otherwise MA would be the most cost effective skill of all. And again, you're perfectly competitive even with only a single style.

>3: Pay for MA Charms which may not mesh together well at all, leaving you weaponless.

Fists are light weapons by default, the most competitive weapon category in the game.

>4: Be stuck with Charms that are wholly inferior to actual Solar Charms.

Anything besides Steel Devil is really, really good. Single Point Shining in the Void is fucking insane.
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>>62917032
Because martial arts get to build themselves around any sort of mechanical or thematic basis they want. There are entire little charm trees for multi attacking every single round, ounter attacking every attack that gets thrown at you, mixing combat abilities with support from just about any other ability you care to mention, fighting battlegroups while denying them their benefits, mixing social influence with combat in like five different ways, and this list is only going to grow with every supplement. If a single ability did that it would objectively be the superior option to all other combat abilites.
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>>62917332
I made a MA Supernal Dawn a while back. Had literally no MAs except for Single point, but because I was able to take the whole nine charms at character creation, I was able to get away with blitzing everything the ST tossed at the group, at least in terms of combatants.
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>>62917324
>What is Single Point Shining in the Void?
>What is Ebon Shadow?
>What is White Reaper?

You unbelievable dipshit
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>>62917332
>A four dot merit at chargen.
4 dots of wasted points that literally do nothing for you. A steep price to pay for terrible Charms.

>Progressing in those trees twice as quickly once you have the dots.
Except you're not progressing, because you're re-buying an entire skill from 0 to 5 every time, and you're starting over at the bottom of naturally weaker Charm trees, AND some of the Charms in those trees are completely incompatible with others. And some styles might preclude armor use.

>And again, you're perfectly competitive even with only a single style.
Except you're not. I'll put my bets on the Solar Melee-ist any day.


>Fists are light weapons by default, the most competitive weapon category in the game.
That is true, but you know what it doesn't have? As good stats as other weapons, or Evocations.

>Anything besides Steel Devil is really, really good. Single Point Shining in the Void is fucking insane.
You have ONE good style that can't be expanded upon. Good job. Melee is intensely better and a better investment all around, and does everything.

>>62917382
Anon, Ebon Shadow and White Reaper are shit. If you want Stealth, you buy fuckin' Solar Stealth. If you want to kill battle groups, you take literally any Solar combat skill. Good job, you outed yourself as a moron. The only competitive MA is Single Point, and even then, it's still worse than Solar Melee.

MA's a good choice for anyone else but Solars. For Solars, it's a waste of your resources in every way.
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>>62917372
Single Point literally lets you take the game's action economy and break it over your knee. It is the best charm tree in the game thus far, while not managing to be *utterly* over the top like 2E's gamebreakers.
>>
So anyway, it seems like each MA style is structured: basic weak charms, then form, then strong charms, then ultimate attack?
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>>62917487
Essentially, yes.
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>>62917470
>Except you're not. I'll put my bets on the Solar Melee-ist any day.

Single Point is better than Solar Melee for sheer burst damage, and given how weighted the game is for offense.

>Except you're not progressing, because you're re-buying an entire skill from 0 to 5 every time, and you're starting over at the bottom of naturally weaker Charm trees, AND some of the Charms in those trees are completely incompatible with others. And some styles might preclude armor use.

Aside from dedicated MA Supernal Dawns, the people most likely to buy into MA are dabblers, i.e. Eclipses or Twlights that want a competitive combat ability without needing to sacrifice social or mental charms for them.
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>>62917470
A stealthy character with Ebon Shadow is going to be more competitive than a character with only Solar stealth. It's not just the intrinsic value of the charms, it's their synergy with noncombat skills as well that are valuable, ala social and Righteous Devil.
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>>62917625
A stealthy character with Thrown and Stealth is going to be more competitive than a character with Ebon Shadow and Stealth.
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>>62917268
Octavian may be tough but you don't necessarily have to fight him alone. Get enough other mortals at your back and he'll go down.
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>>62917643
A Solar with Thrown and Stealth must divide his regular XP between both charm trees. A Solar with Stealth and Ebon Shadow can divide regular xp into one and solar XP into the other.

This is why I say that MA rewards two groups: dabblers looking for a combat ability to fall back on in times of serious trouble, or the hyper-committed.
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>>62917735
Yeah, I guess the best way for a mortals game with Exalt level threats is:

Commanders with a larger mortal army

And liberal use of Command Rolls with War.
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>>62917269
Anon, there are many places in Creation where you can spend literal years or even decades without seeing an Exalt, powerful god, fair folk, etc.
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>>62917882
Yes but anon specifically mentioned mortals having to deal with Solar level threats.
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>>62917987
That's dumb as shit then because mortals straight-up can't deal with stuff that challenges even Solars then.
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>>62918163
Agreed.
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>>62918163
>mortals straight-up can't deal with stuff that challenges even Solars then
That's the attitude of a quitter anon. You fail because you never try.
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>>62918271
if you really weren't a quitter, you would have exalted instead of dying, you pussy.
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>>62918322
Exaltation is at the whims of the gods, its for pussies who rely on handouts instead of their own conviction, wits, and strength. Billions of men across Creation have fought and died bravely without ever receiving the help of the gods, so they can fuck right off.
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>>62918373
they died bravely, but they fought ineffectively.
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>>62918479
Sometimes its not about being efficient, its about doing the right thing.
>>
Seriously anon, you may want a Mortal game, but you really don't want a Mortal game. It's boring and crazy imbalanced. Exalted was never made for this kind of thing.
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>>62918533
>Exalted was never made for this kind of thing.
Why then would they model rules for disease and wounds for mortals then? And besides, people telling me that you shouldn't play a mortal in Exalted doesn't make me want to not play a mortal, it just makes me pissed and want to play a mortal even more. I fundamentally disagree with the assertion that a mortal can't achieve the same things as an exalt, they'll just have to go about it a different way.
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>>62916288
With a few centuries of recruiting outcastes and encouraging them to have families you could have a decent sized gente serving you.
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>>62918620
>Why then would they model rules for disease and wounds for mortals then?
Because it's to show you how mortals heal (and die) in comparison to Exalt's.
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You're one of the Dragon-Blooded. This member of your Sworn Kinship has taken a close interest in you. What do you do?
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>>62919640
Seeing as how she's a Wood Aspect, I smash.
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>>62919640
Throw her off a cliff. A smile like that can't be trusted.
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The new Exalted novel by Matt Forbeck is out. So far it's standard genre fiction, neither especially good or especially bad.
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>>62919640
Genuflect
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>>62920023
Like you'd have the guts to do it, senpai~
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>>62920107
Got a link to it?
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>>62920169
>implying I'd never toss a fucking underfed looking moron off a cliff
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>>62920317
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>>62920317
Not yet, no.
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>>62920465
Thanks, anon. Before I get stuck in; is there any double Exaltation or other such bullshit?
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>>62920506
So far, no. All pretty in keeping with the Lore. It leans pretty heavily on Exigents as a plot device, and a Sidereal Circle dedicated to regulating them.
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>>62920548
>It leans pretty heavily on Exigents as a plot device
Why do I feel like I'm going to be seeing this really damn often as time goes on?
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>>62920655
They can easily fill in any gap. Easy to use as a result
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>>62920711
And already leaving a bad taste in my mouth for how watered down it's making being an Exalted seem.
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>>62920730
They fill an easy spot for an Exalted level antagonist if you don't want to fall back on yet another Abyssal, Infernal, or Dynast.
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>>62920711
Not him, but I understand the use of Exigents, but I still don't think they should be anything more than oddities.
On the otherhand though, *fuck* the Gentimans and Luminals. We have no need for those.
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>>62920769
Then don't use them. They're not even going to get full hardcovers, just a softcover addendum with Abyssals and Sidereals respectively.
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>>62916782

First, consider picking a better game - not like there's any shortage - we are talking about Exalted.

If, for whatever reason, you must play Exalted, you'll probably have to tinker with the rules anyway as the rules are designed with Exalts in mind and correspondingly the math isn't on your side even if the challenges are otherwise scaled appropriately
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>>62921171
I like a challenge, the setting being against me just makes it all the more interesting.
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>>62921195
The thing is, being defiant of the setting and pressing on in spite of impossible odds?

That's *how* you Exalt in the first place. Or end up dead, but 99% of PCs with a halfway competent GM will just Exalt them for it.
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>>62917470

>only competitive MA is single point

Add Righteous Devil to that list too
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>>62921240
>That's *how* you Exalt in the first place
If you're extremely lucky, yes. Problem is, there's a very limited supply of exalts, and billions of mortals in the world. You and I both know damn well that there are a lot of mortals with my mindset that end up dead because there can only be a 700 exalts at a time (not counting DB's). And that's why I feel so compelled to do it, because if every person who defied the setting and pressed on was exalted then by all means the exaltations would go to those people who deserved it because of their conviction and perseverance, but instead it's largely a roll of the dice and a lot of luck that determines it, and because of that I can't help but feel far more empathetic for all the people who don't get an exaltation in spite of their determination.
>>
Seeing that MA is starting to come forward as the threads theme; what's MA styles are the best to get? I understand that Single Point is near the top and Steel Devil is near the bottom for Solars, but what about DBs? Are the Immaculate styles worth getting as a Solar?
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>>62921293
That just makes them the worst of the best. Better than 99% of the rest of the world, but worse than the .0000001% above them.
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>>62921311
Immaculate styles are strong as fuck for any Exalt except possibly sids (and even then they're probably still useful).
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>>62921404
What defines "better" in this case? If you're willing to press on in defiance of the injustice of the setting, even to the point of death, how do you be better than your fellow man who is willing to do the same? By being deader than him?
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>>62921572
By having a player behind them.
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>>62921802
Welp, can't argue with that.
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>>62915007
Nah the eating people thing is a façade apparently that she lets down if you impress her and she picks you as a student.

>>62915224
Rape camps are gone, luckily.
No mention about Leviathan as far as I know.
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>>62921311

The Immaculate styles are bit behind the others unless you're a dragonblooded.

The main reason I place them behind the other is that they fell into the 2e trap of MA pricing. "Oh shit, Dragonblooded can learn these, let's just set a price that's 'fair' for Dragonblooded instead of letting them be Celestial strength."

In their rush to make it a super special DB style I feel it became below average for nearly everyone. There are good things. Soul Mastery is something you *never* want to be activated against you, Water Dragon's defense is amazing, and Earth Dragon is absolutely fucking bullshit when paired with an Earth Immaculate. The problem is the charms are just too expensive for their own good.
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>>62918620
>I fundamentally disagree with the assertion that a mortal can't achieve the same things as an exalt
But non, they can't. Exalts are mortals+. They can do everything mortals can and more, every option available to mortals is also available to them, but the opposite isn't true. Exalts are just plain superior to mortals, and they can do and achieve things mortals just can't.
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>>62923815
This is, in fact, the entire premise of the game. The different forms of exaltation are just a matter of expressing that "plus" in a different way.

Solars achieve arete in what would be normal human tasks.
Lunars employ human thought in a variety of forms.
Dragon Blooded carry the essence of elements towards human chosen ends.
Infernals, like the Solars, inflict their will on the world, but unlike the Solars do it through metaphysical means rather than mundane writ awesome.

And so on. Anything that a bog-standard mortal can be, an Exalt can be, plus more.
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>>62923896
True, but mortals don't go batshit insane because of the Great Curse.
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>>62923815
That's why you have to get creative as a mortal. Or just use overwhelming numbers. Either way should make for an interesting campaign.
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>>62924708
And what if your enemy is just as clever, or can overpower those numbers?
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>>62924731
Then you die, reincarnate, make another character, and try again. And again. And again. Until you win.
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>>62917269
Literally most of the people you'll fight will be mortals.
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Whats the maximum number of range bands an archery focused solar can attack from?
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>>62924747
Are you *sure* you wouldn't rather a different game than Exalted? There are plenty of systems and settings where that fire in yer soul for humanity would *work*.
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Is becoming an Immaculate monk an irrevocable choice? And can Realm dbs learn Celestial Martial Arts [legally] without being a monk?
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>>62924789
No, okay, this is bullshit, I refuse to let this setting beat me. I am going to beat this game no matter what the writers or the mechanics try to do to stop me, and I am going to do it as a goddamn mortal because this setting pisses me off even though it's interesting and well written.
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>>62921293
That's not how exaltation works anymore. It's not a glowing invisible ball that floats around creation scanning human souls for one that meats a checklist of traits and then latches itself onto them if they happen to be doing something cool. You're simply chosen by the incarne/yozi/deathlord/whatever else. There's little luck involved, they either deem you worthy or they don't. One of the worst misteps 2e made was codifying how the exaltation worked so rigorously.
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>>62924820
Seriously lad, yer passion is misdirected. I understand how you feel, I too love when the little guy becomes the hero.
But in here that would only result in you Exalting. And with how you are, I'd bet 20 buckazoids that you'd only get pissed off when that happens.
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>>62924820
How does it piss you off?
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>>62924960
Because I believe that with enough determination you can overcome any obstacle, but this setting does not believe that, which only makes me want to prove this setting wrong.
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>>62918620
>Why then would they model rules for disease and wounds for mortals then?
Because mortals are important and it's important to know how they work. Disregard what the other guys said. Most of the characters in most campaigns should be mortals I think. If you want to play a mortal then go ahead! But no they can't do the same things as an Exalted. That's kind of the point.
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>>62924795
I dont remember the in setting legality, but if they make high friends or get in some good favors with some Wyld hunt guys, I'd allow it.
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>>62924989
You're trying to make the moon go the other way here, throwing cats in a stable and insisting they become horses. besides, people who would normally become solars if one was available are a good candidate for exigent.
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>>62924960
And to add on to what I was saying here >>62924989, I fucking hate the way Exalts work, especially Solars, where the core idea is that they're just automatically perfect at shit and they don't even have to work at it. And why are they perfect at everything? Because they got a fucking handout from the gods is why. And because of that they're always going to better than you and there's nothing you can do to change that. Well fuck that, I refuse to embrace that mentality.
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>>62924989
You are seriously thinking about this wrong though.
Determination does make you overcome any obstacle.
BY TURNING YOU INTO AN EXALT. They are still the people they originally were dude.
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>>62924774
Thats where you're wrong. Scenery doesn't even survive long enough to count as a fight.
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>>62925051
You're wrong about Solars. The thing with Solars is they're perfect because they already were good at what they did, and worked at it. They are the 1% of the 1% to begin with, and then they got lucky enough to get superpowers on top. So now you've got the driven shonen hero with actual godly might. You don't just luck into Solar Exaltion, anon. You've already got to be the best before you're even in the running for one.
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>>62925062
Yes, if you're one of the 700 people in the right place at the right time to receive it. And unless you honestly believe you're one of the only determined people in the world then you haven't got a chance in hell of actually receiving that exaltation, you'd have better chances playing the lottery.
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>>62918524
I think this is one of the core things that people don't understand at a low, low level about Solar Exalted. They just don't grok that even with their Solar Exaltations those heroic mortals would still be undeterred and go on to do amazing things. Creation still has its Napoleans and Alexanders and Siddhartha Gautamas who do amazing things in the face of adversity and essence-wielders.
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>>62924795
You can be a former monk IIRC, but you are kinda seen as a failure at that point. Realm DB's can learn other CMA, but it's considered heretical and you're branded an apostate normally, so you'll eat shit for doing so.
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>>62925113
That, and most PC's interactions with things in the setting is "lol thats cute Mr. Heroic Mortal." followed by the mortal exploding like a Mortal Kombat fatality.
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>>62925107
Every single person in Creation has a little bit of Dragon blood in them, you are greatly underestimating your chances of Exaltation.
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>>62925118
>>62924795

There are no distinction between TMA and CMA in this edition. There's just Martial Arts and Sidereal Martial Arts.

As far as I know, there's nothing socially preventing DB's from learning "secular" Martial Arts. The Immaculate Order frowns on it, but they're not gonna like, jail you or anything over it.
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>>62918620
Anyone who disagrees with you has never read Manacle and Coin, which explains exactly how an organization largely composed of and led by mortals has multinational influence and power even in the face of Spirits and Exalts. It even goes into detail about how the Guild can handle the return of the Solar Exalted, because at the end of the day every Prince of the Earth is still a person with levers and a price. You just need to find the lever and know their price.
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>>62925147
Thats a holdover from older editions true. This actually is something that needs to be addressed in the current edition though, if they can pull their heads out of their asses for 5 minutes and stop writing #WOKE garbage. Since previous editions, DB's were OK with most TMA's, but considered learning pretty much any CMA but the IO styles to apostasy and heavily, HEAVILY frowned upon. Now that everything is just "Martial Arts lol", this is going to need some actual clarification.
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>>62925150
Manacle and Coin was pretty fun. Now thats a book that needs a reprint and update. But to sum it up for people that never read 1E:

The Guild's idea of dealing with any powerful being is pretty much to ignore it if it's not a problem, bribe the shit out of it until it stops being one, try to hire it if it's friendly, or as a last resort if literally any other possible avenue is exhausted, hire a shitton of mercs to try and kill it or at least drive it off and get it to stop bothering them. All in all, fairly, oddly logical for the setting.
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>>62925146
Dragon-Bloods make me even angrier, because at least the other Exalts are chosen in some capacity, the Terrestrials are literally just lucky enough to be born with the right blood.
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>>62925253
Being born powerful is literally the most common staple in all of mythology anon. You cannot possibly avoid that as nearly every damn hero in every mythology is half god or spirit or slathered with special hero juice or any combination thereof.
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>>62925253
>>62925107
>>62924989
>>62924820
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>>62925295
I mean, the rest of the setting is great, I just hate the core values that the game seems to support. "If you win the superpower lottery, congratulations, everything will come easy to you! If not, well, shit sucks and there's nothing you can do, you'll always be inferior and you can never win." Well, I'm not going to settle for that kind of quitter talk.
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>>62925051
They're not automatically perfect. They start off really good at stuff and have the potential to be the greatest there is at the thing they're best at, but it takes an enormous amount of time and resources to get there and they're still vulnerable in other areas. They got a "handout" the same way Green Lanterns get a handout; they're found worthy of power and it's given to them once they've earned it.
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>>62924989
>Because I believe that with enough determination you can overcome any obstacle
But you can't. Physically, even if the limit is just your lifetime, you can't. The whole point of exaltation is that it makes it so you CAN.
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>>62925118
>but it's considered heretical and you're branded an apostate normally
What seriously? An apostate just for learning Crane Style??
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>>62925398
>it takes an enormous amount of time and resources to get there
Anon, to get to the highest level a mortal can get to takes them almost no time at all, the only reason it takes any time to get to their peak level is because its so much higher than that of the mortals.
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>>62925389
Because the core of the game is about playing superpowered dudes. You're literally complaining that the game is not designed for playing what it's actually not designed for playing.

It's like asking to be a bog standard human with no powers (and yes, in this case, Batman style "I am peak everything and a million skills" is a superpower) in a superhero game.
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>>62925453
System mechanics are not setting physics
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>>62925416
To be fair, the limit isn't your lifetime in the setting. There is after all, reincarnation and ghosts.
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>>62925253
>the Terrestrials are literally just lucky enough to be born with the right blood.
Like people who are strong, fast or smart in real life? Genetics affect us dude. DB's are just that taken to a spiritual extreme. Think of them as benders from ATLA, you don't get to decide who becomes one, but not being one isn't the end of the world. Same as being born the heir to a billion dollars.
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>>62925437
It's because in previous editions they specifically called out that CMA's were heretical to the Realm DB's because they're filthy, disgusting, barbaric anathema styles, instead of the proper, rightful, perfect Immaculate Styles. Didn't stop some of them from learning it anyway, but then again, the Realm has always been hypocritical as a motherfucker/writers being writers with no actual oversight.
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>>62925389
>f not, well, shit sucks and there's nothing you can do, you'll always be inferior and you can never win.
But that's never been the message? One of the recurring themes of Exalted in fact is that the weak in numbers overthrow the strong. The gods+Exalted overthrew the primordials, the dragon blooded overthrew the Solars and Lunars, and now the dragon blooded are trying to manage hundreds of millions of mortals who riot regularly. If you're angry that you can't punch out Superman I don't know what to tell you except suck it up, value exists in someone beyond their ability to beat someone in a fight.
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>>62925453
I'm not talking about mortal levels. I'm talking about Solars.

>>62925470
Yeah but you don't get to remember your past lives. At all. Every reincarnation is a blank slate. Ghosts are a great example of mortals having a chance at power though.
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>>62925470
Reincarnation scrubs you of your past accumulations and ghosts are failures.
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>>62925253
Anon, *everyone* in Creation at this point has Dragon blood. Everyone has the chance to Exalt.
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>>62924784
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>>62925577
>>62924784

It really depends on the charm. But stuff like Solar Spike lets you attack even from Extreme Range with an aim action, so basically "if you can see them, you can hit them. Even if it's via telescope."
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>>62925577
I'm sorry anon but I don't know. ;_; Also God knows how much I hate range bands. One of the things I loved most about Exalted was how defined everything was. I can't stand wishy washy range bands. In my day we calculated distance in yards like MEN.
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>>62925627
Range bands was a kind of retarded thing they added. Imprecise measurements and combat just don't go together too well.
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>>62925627
>>62925640

Get with the times Grampas. 13th Age, FFG Star Wars, and a bunch of other games also use Range Bands.
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>>62925097
>The thing with Solars is they're perfect because they already were good at what they did, and worked at it.
Not necessarily true.
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>>62925651
Never heard of most of those and SW RPG's have sucked since the 80's.
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>>62925680
Ah, right, 3E added some garbage about "potential to be great" qualifying you for a Solar Exaltion now, didn't it?
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>>62925707
It's also in Unity RPG. No?

Fate and Legends of the Wulin use zones instead, but they're largely the same concept.

I prefer it over fiddly ass shit like Yards, at any rate.
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>>62925150
Manacle and Coin is a well written book that completely ignores how trivial it would be for a supernatural entity to take over the Guild.
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>>62925640
>Huzzah!Amanofquality!.jpeg

>>62925651
None of which I play. Also how young are you to call me gramps m'boy?
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>>62925732
That's not a 3e invention sir Pointlessly Angry.
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>>62925014
So a Wyld Hunter could teach one to a non-monk dragon blooded? Legally? Would it have to be in secret or could they just take them on as an apprentice?
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>>62925761
To be fair, they have absolutely cut the balls off every Charm from when that book was written. 1E Solars were pure nightmare tier in terms of trying to prevent them from doing anything they wanted. 3E Solars are basically drooling lackwits and crippled children compared to the Charms 1E had.
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>>62925776
In 3E it's probably case by case basis until the dev's say something about it (or don't), given how stuff used to work in previous editions. But generally "Animal styles are a no-no to the Realm because that is anathema shit" is a rule of thumb I'd go by.
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>>62925786
Examples? Not calling you a liar, it's just that a day or two ago a dude said the 3E ones were way more powerful than previous editions.
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>>62925762
Th-thirty sir. ;-;

>>62925786
Arguably, that's for the better, because there was literally NO defence possible against 1E social charms, because social in and of itself was almost nonexistent. It almost always worked.
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>>62925627
Yards works for fights involving two combatants and two combatants alone, both stranded in a featureless white room, but anything more complicated then that and it falls apart. I don't want to pause combat to look up how many yards long on average a ships deck is to see if someone can make it to the other side in one round or not
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>>62925819
Seeing as my books are books, and not pdfs, I can't just give you a clean quick copy and paste. So have some verbatim of the more notorious 1E stuff Solars could do:

1: Social Charms just worked. At best, sometimes (ie: very rarely) you could spend a bunch of WP to throw one off, but that didn't prevent them from hitting you with it again right away. So you went right to boot licking Solar pet cock stroker in about 2 seconds flat.
2: Bureau Charms just did fun things like slowing down or speeding up entire organizations automatically by the Solar's essence. Or completely purging them of corruption or corrupting the shit out of them, again, automatically. Good luck doing anything as the Guild when suddenly your entire organization is corrupt and working 4x slower than normal. These also lasted until the Solar stopped wanting you to eat shit and die. So forever, basically.
3: Wyld Shaping Tech was literally "Just do whatever the fuck you want, bro" the Charm.
4: Solars could have two full dice pools of defense against every attack. In a system where normally you had to split actions to even HAVE a defense and any attacks beyond what you split to defend against just auto-hit you (well, ok, they still needed to roll 1 successes on a roll to hit).
5: Tons of other Solar Charms were also just "I do this". And it was done. No resistences, they just did things, and that was how it worked.

Now, some stuff in 3E Solars didn't do in 1E. The Doombot making Charm, for example, just didn't exist, and the whole "I am Moses, eat shit you fuckers" Charm that doomed a whole area wasn't there either. But generally, 1E Solars would kick the ever living shit out of the world from the word "GO" and were much more powerful overall.
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>>62925880
You should never have to do fucking trigonemetry to resolve combat.

Also, Yards were also wonky because the way the movement system worked, a person with Dex 5 could kite a person with Dex 4 to death indefinitely because they're always, at a minimum, at least one yard away without the use of charms. I honestly just never bothered tracking them.
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>>62925896
Yes, but mind you, this wasn't to the games benefit. It was literally just an endless series of "I win" buttons. And man, you're also utterly fucked if you're another Exalt type against a Solar antagonist.
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>>62925761
Yeah, but that was a good thing. Back in 2e where there was two socialize charms that functioned under identical mechanics of 'talk to any dude who's part of any society/culture/whatever else for an afternoon and congratulations you've reshaped society' flavor text ignoring who charms worked was basically essential to having not shit fluff
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>>62925899
In fairness, in real life a person who can run faster than another person can run faster than that other person. I have a houserule where a person can increase their speed by a yard per turn they spend moving/dashing, up to their athletics rating. The downside is they have to succeed on a difficulty one roll per turn while doing so, or a difficulty 2 roll once they hit full speed. If they fail the roll they have to roll to avoid knockdown and taking unsoakable bashing damage dice equal to the margin of failure.
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>>62925911
The funny part is, I think it actually was to the games benefit. Exalted was a game about changing the world right from the onset, and the game gave you the tools to do that. It was very sandboxy and fun in it's own way as a result. 2E toned things down pretty heavily, and now with 3E the game is arguably the most balanced it has ever been, but it certainly doesn't really have the feeling of Exalted anymore. You're not grand heroes from another age striding the world and making it anew (or wrecking it further) as you see fit, now you're...Kinda like a high level D&D party. It's a shame. 1E was pretty unique. I'll admit it wasn't the best GAME, but it certainly portrayed the setting the best way I've seen out of all of the editions and really drove home exactly WHY Solars were a threat and had to be put down. 3E Solars are laughably weak and with no high essence Charms even existing anymore, it really doesn't feel like the whole Ursupation thing was even that big of a deal with how limited in scope they are now.
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>>62925955
Taking notes for the homebrew edition I'm working on btw. Just thought you'd like to know that.
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>>62925899
Maps anon. They help. Also honestly movement being calculated should be an advantage. Having higher base movement should be a thing.
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>>62921195
Nice Lunar!
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>>62918373
>Billions of men across Creation have fought and died bravely without ever receiving the help of the gods, so they can fuck right off.
And they never accomplished what the Exalted did.
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>>62919640
>Sword Kingship
First of all it's a Sworn Brotherhood, second of all I'd never swear into one with that rancid piece of pedo bait.
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>>62916782
1: Don't use 3E
2: Homebrew the fuck out of 2.5E
3: Play rulers of small Princedoms.
4: Enjoy!
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>>62921293
That's my go to pick whenever I think of the brides of Ahlat btw, cause I don't really know anything about them but that fits the image the words instantly conjured in my mind. Plus the war dinosaurs are very Exaltedish.
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>>62926190
>cause I don't really know anything about them but that fits the image the words instantly conjured in my mind
Just think of stereotypical African women, with big shields and spears. And some war paint. Thats the Brides.
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>>62925955
>2E toned things down pretty heavily, and now with 3E the game is arguably the most balanced it has ever been, but it certainly doesn't really have the feeling of Exalted anymore. You're not grand heroes from another age striding the world and making it anew (or wrecking it further) as you see fit, now you're...Kinda like a high level D&D party.
Yes my thoughts exactly. 3e exalts don't really feel like exalts.
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>>62925955
I mean, Godbound *does* replicate the grandeur of 1E Solar miracles with a few massive, broad powers, so that's good.

It is also, unambiguously, an unbalanced piece of shit with a combat system on par with 2E.
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>>62926236
On the other hand, I disagree. Exalts in 2e felt like stupid power fantasies to me. Now, I haven't had an opportunity to play 1e, so I've only got 2e and 3e to compare, but to me, 3e sells the essence of what the game is supposed to be about a lot better than 2e did. I like playing a wuxia style master swordsman, or an unstoppable knight on horseback, or the diplomat that can bend the fate of a nation, or the warlord capable of truly incredible strategies. That's fun for me.

But something that bleeds the fun right out is how 2e bleed the life and mysticism out of EVERYTHING by overexplaining it. And then there's the conceit of who's meant to be a player and who isn't - Solars were the protagonists, lunars were supporting characters, Sidereals and Dragonblooded and Abyssals and Infernals were antagonists, and Alchemicals were outsiders working inwards. 3e on the other hand is handling the different exalt types from the get-go with the idea in mind that players want to play them, and they will be the heroes of their own stories, rather than players in the Solar's stories.

Like, I get that putting so much emphasis on Solars was part of what made them cool, but a huge problem about it was the fact that the entire setting revolved around solars. Nobody else mattered, and even the big bads of the setting went out of their way to get solars on their side through corruption. It felt unreal, moderately stupid, and restricted storylines to two or three patterns that STs endlessly regurgitated. I've yet to encounter that problem in 3e, and maybe that's because there's only a few books at the moment, but it feels far more open and like I won't be punished for making anything less than the ivory tower optimal choice.
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>>62926355
Yeah, for all that a few Death Cultists claim that Solars are nerfed, the changes are for the better. 1E especially was basically Calvinball: the rules were nonexistent, for the most part, and Solars were utterly untouchable simply because of fiat effects that made them untouchable. That's fine for a power fantasy, but my god, it absolutely removes any sense of danger from the game.

Not to mention, it's combat system was shit back then. It was basically endless stacking of scene-long effects, at which point neither side could realistically even begin to harm one another.
>>
It's interesting to see peoples clashing opinions though. Seems like just yesterday I heard people talking about how supernals made solars so overpowered a single one should snap the setting in half
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>>62926355
The thing is, the game is about Solars. As in, the whole game. It's about Solars. They offer the other Exalt's as an option (key word: option) to play because it's White Wolf and they always do that kind of shit. In the same way, say, Werewolf. Werewolf was about werewolves, but there were splats to play bearmen and dinosaur guys and whatever the fuck else. Because they want to sell splat books and it's an easy sell for them to go "Hey, now you can play Y! Doesn't Y sound fun?".

>>62926457
Thats because White Wolf games always attracted people who, honestly, are fucking terrible with mechanics, game balance, and knowing what actually was an issue. The player base for Exalted I've found, in all of the years I've GM'd, has been exceedingly uninformed when it comes to the actual rules of the game. So of course they'd see Supernals as "breaking the game in half". These are the people that think taking Dex 5 is a cardinal sin and a skill over 3 is unimaginable.
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>>62926355
Exalts are SUPPOSED to be power fantasies though.
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>>62926495
My dude the game is still called "Exalted" not "Solars"

>>62926500
They still are, even in 3E! They're just not a circlejerk.
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If Dragonblood fucks a beastwoman, can the resulting beastbaby exalt?
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>>62926495
>The thing is, the game is about Solars. As in, the whole game. It's about Solars
But that's the thing. Your own example works against you: Werewolf is called "werewolf" because that's the protagonist option for the gameline. And that's cool, but we aren't playing Solar here. We're playing Exalted.

>>62926500
You can have a power fantasy without the universe bending around your whim. Solars are meant to evoke similar situations to characters like Cu Cuchulain or Hercules or Perseus or similarly high-end heroic characters.

You know what Hercules never did? Stood on top of a mountain and kicked everybody on the earth to the opposite gender. 2e Exalted power levels were FAR AND AWAY beyond what the source material would inspire in your average player.

If you're not convinced, take this from a different tack - Superheroes. Superheroes are characters that commonly have high end powers, and deal with other such individuals. But a lot of people feel that conflicts involving Superman are boring because his powers mean he ALWAYS wins, he never gets stressed out, and the only value is spectacle. Conversely, one of the single most popular characters in the world - Spider-man deals with personal shit, operates on a street level, and while he's not a world-spanning power like superman, he's much more relatable, believable, and interesting. Still powerful, still someone you can fantasize about being, but not "crack the earth in half" powerful.
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>>62926552
Beastmen have human souls, and can therefore become any type of exalt, since the human soul is the thing that accepts exaltation.

Technically, other exalt types can have Dragonblood, so a dynast lunar banging a wolf or something could have their kid exalt as a DB.
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>>62926552
Yes

>>62926549
>>62926560
True it's called Exalted, but the game is very much about Solars. It never pretended to be otherwise.
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>>62926552
Yes, if the progenerative essence is good and/or the DB has good breeding

Man, selective conception is actually REALLY good for Dragonblooded, all of a sudden.
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>>62926560
>2e Exalted power levels were FAR AND AWAY beyond what the source material would inspire in your average player
Depends what mythology you're citing. I want my Indian and Asian mythology power levels.
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>>62926571
Lay a bland denial all you want, but you're not addressing the arguments made. Because maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be all about Solars.
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>>62926571
>True it's called Exalted, but the game is very much about Solars. It never pretended to be otherwise.

It's about the setting, and the Exalted host in general. Did you know they originally planned to have the Dragonblooded be the default splat, and play the Immaculate Order completely straight, only to reveal the truth later down the line when Solars came out?

We'd seriously be arguing that Solars are toxic to the game line and pure skub.
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>>62926495
>The thing is, the game is about Solars. As in, the whole game. It's about Solars.
No it's not. It's about the Exalted, and the Solars are the shiniest Exalted. Most of the information in the game is about everything else.

>>62926552
Yup! But the Exaltation chance is reduced if the beastwoman wasn't dragonblooded herself.
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>>62926582
And yet it is. The game has never pretended otherwise. It can offer you options, but the main course is always Solars. Thats why they're the core book, and why every edition thus far has offered sections on how all of this relates to Solars and how to incorporate it into Solar games.

>>62926590
They also planned for Lunars to never be playable, and at one point, everyone in Creation was black/brown. No white people existed.

All of this changed. The game that came out was not the DB game. It was the Solar game.
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>>62926552
Yeah, but it really wouldn't be worth much. A DB with a few extra mutations strewn around isn't noticeably more potent then a regular DB
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>>62926581
Maybe if they change their minds and do an Essence 6+ supplement.

I mean, they've already changed their mind about BP/XP, Craft, and Bureaucracy if the upcoming Storyteller's Guide is any indication.
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>>62926611
Well, they already changed dev's too. So minds literally changed, because it's not the same crew working it over.
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>>62926598
You're arguing from a perceived point of power, but it's not actually one. This is not the Solar game anymore, and the devs have it in mind that the power balances in 1e and 2e were too skewed to be balanced. A lot of players HATED that only Solars could be protagonists.

>>62926609
It implies a lot of really cool flavor, though!
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>>62924795
>2e
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>>62926598
99% of the stories in the game are not about solars. You really have to get over this autistic fetish you have for them. The game is not about solars. It's partly about them, but not totally about them. Thanks though for inspiring me to keep working on my own edition so that one day I won't have to listen to shit like this.
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>>62926621
>A lot of players HATED that only Solars could be protagonists.
That I find both suspect, and funny. I've never actually encountered anyone in multiple groups, that hated Solars. I've found plenty that favor a certain Exalt type and will play it over Solars, but would also happily join normal games if those options weren't allowed.

Saying you hate Solars as protagonists is like saying you hate that Wizards get all of the splat support in D&D. Of course they do, they're Wizards. If you choose to play something from Oddball Supplement X, you're not gonna have the same support because the base D&D game is about that Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/Wizard, not about that Incarnum or Psionic.
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>>62926598
You're really stubborn about this, but the only thing that made the Solars the supposed protagonists was that they were the strongest. Don't shit on the fans of the other splats.
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>>62926647
>1E
>2E
>2.5E
Howls of amazement! Most of the stuff to talk about in the game takes place in most of the game!
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>>62926654
>that hated Solars.
See, I didn't say that. I said that they hated that Solars were the only people that could be protagonists.
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>>62926654
>That I find both suspect, and funny. I've never actually encountered anyone in multiple groups, that hated Solars.
He didn't say they hated solars. He said they hated that only solars could be protagonists, you're not just lying, you're doing it badly. Give up.
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>>62926598
> and at one point, everyone in Creation was black/brown. No white people existed.
Sounds like something the current devs would want to do
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>>62926654
>That I find both suspect, and funny. I've never actually encountered anyone in multiple groups, that hated Solars.

My friend you have no idea about the absurd Solar hate-dom that exists online because of this exact attitude.

I will say the Wizard comparison falls flat because Exalted always did the courtesy of telling you the Solars were always the strongest, rather than lie to your face and tell you a Level 20 Fighter is on the same level as a Level 20 Wizard
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>>62917299
Mortals can't stand up to Exalted.

Any ambush you lay, any plot you plan will break down: they have superhuman senses, they will see it coming.
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>>62926668
Actually, I've heard more about 2e being brown-washed than 3e. 3e's even introduced Medo, which is explicitly "mongolian horseman-styled transylvania"
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>>62926660
>but the only thing that made the Solars the supposed protagonists was that they were the strongest
That and they're, y'know. The thing in the Core Rulebook. They're what you're supposed to play, and the game is built around you playing? C'mon anon, this isn't hard logic to follow here.

>>62926668
The original logic behind it at the time was, IIRC, that Grabowski reasoned the only humans that would've been safe during the primordial war were the ones the sun favored the most, which would also be black/brown people, because they're less prone to sunburn and such.
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>>62926670
This. You hate anything that's forced onto your plate long enough, even if it's fucking delicious. I don't want salted caramel ice cream with my fucking pizza EVERY SINGLE DAY.
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>>62926590
It's kind of unfortunate that we wont be able to observe everyone losing their shit over that reveal.
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>>62926681
It's possible for a mortal to blindside a newbie Exalt with lucky rolls and high stats.

It's rare though, and odds are always bad.
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>>62926686
Are you retarded? You're not just supposed to play what's in the core book. That's the basic option, and there's a shittonne of books dedicated to making sure you don't have to use it.
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>>62926654
I don't hate Soalrs I just find them boring and bland compared to other exalted
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>>62926681
Not all Exalts favor Awareness/Investigation. Some are stupid, some are blind or deaf.

>>62926704
Well you're in luck! Most Exalted aren't Solars and most of the game isn't about them!
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>>62926670
>My friend you have no idea about the absurd Solar hate-dom that exists online
To be fair, I tend to avoid most online communities because they're dens of abject insanity. I mean, have you ever read tumblr? Facebook? Any official forum for anything? Shits a madhouse more often than not. People don't act like that face to face, thats for sure.
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>>62926686
>The original logic behind it at the time was, IIRC, that Grabowski reasoned the only humans that would've been safe during the primordial war were the ones the sun favored the most, which would also be black/brown people, because they're less prone to sunburn and such.
That's both really retarded and makes a certain amount of sense.
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>>62926708
>most of the game isn't about them!
Given right now you've got only 1 (one) book right now for Exalt's, it actually is.
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>>62926709
Well let me sum it up for you; if you're given a dozen options, and people keep yelling at you that you're only supposed to pick the first one, you get angry.
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>>62926709
Okay, so... why are you here, then? 4chan's more insane than most places.

>>62926718
Two, thanks to the manuscript, and a third is in the works. Solars were never meant to be the only one.
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>>62926714
I believe someone said the higher ups at WW made him change that, because it was racist to only have black people.
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>>62926718
Actually there's dozens. The previous editions still exist dumbass.
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>>62926686
>They're what you're supposed to play, and the game is built around you playing?

They're the simple, strong, blank slate splat. That's why they're core. The ones with extra widgets and baggage and stuff are in supplements, and come with more mechanical and social baggage. It's also why the Dragonblooded are released right after Solars, to establish the gulf in power between the strongest splat and the weakest splat. It's an entirely pragmatic decision, not one rooted in the idea that only Solars are the protagonists.
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>>62926728
More like no one would play exalted or everyone would just ignore the par of the lore if that stayed in.
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>>62926749
Pfft, I'd play it. Who gives a shit about skin color, it's a game.
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>>62926728
I actually really like that the Underworld in 3e is apparently going to have strong gothic overtones for its designs of castles, people, and notions of culture. It establishes culture in a place that was woefully underexplained before.

A great example of this is actually Five Edicts Dominion, which has a design based around European plate armor specifically because of that idea.
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>>62926732
>It's also why the Dragonblooded are released right after Solars, to establish the gulf in power between the strongest splat and the weakest splat
It's far more likely they're released second because they're the major antagonists for basically everyone in the setting. The Realm is damn near everyones enemy. Kinda hard to do a game without the DB book because they're the central antagonists for a solid portion of the entire setting.
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>>62926788
By that logic, the Abyssals should be released second, because even the Realm can be negotiated with. Plus, Outcastes are not hostile by default.

An Abyssal's entire goal is to kill you, and everything else.
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>>62926788
I honestly think it's both. Peak, base, then everything in between.
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>>62926804
Except you're forgetting the DB books are always more about the Realm than anything else. They're a huge lore dump book+main antagonist book.
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>>62926692
>It's possible for a mortal to blindside a newbie Exalt with lucky rolls and high stats.
You pointed out the exception to the rule and I agree that a heroic mortal who specializes in manipulating court will probably beat a dawn caste who has only fought all his life and his only exposure to social activity was a drill sargeant yelling commands at him could probably not compare immediately.

But the matter of the fact is that there is something that the exalted are supernaturally good at and generally a thing that allows them to get out of trouble. Or survive trouble that comes over them- as such mortals have a very difficult time actually killing/defeating Exalted completely.

>>62926708
And some have supernatural resistance, which allows them to survive all of the bad things that come their way.
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>>62926788
It's actually this, yes. Book orders are generally released in order of what's most relevant for world information. That's the reason why the current book order is:

Solars -> Dragon Blooded -> Lunars -> Exigents -> Sidereals (With a Getimian softcover book) -> Abyssals (Liminals Softcover) -> Infernals -> Alchemicals

Solars are released first for reasons >>62926732 listed. DBs come next because they're the most numerous enemy you should be encountering. Then Lunars because they're relevant to Solar stories and have a huge effect on the 50% of the world not controlled by the Realm. Exigents come next to allow everybody their splat-happy funtimes, which is a big demand in a game as homebrew encouraging as Exalted, and while that's not as important as some of the others, I think a cash grab can be forgiven - besides, it'll give us 3e's information on gods, which is hella important. Sidereals come next because they're the Jedi Ninja council and operating behind the Realm throne - not as relevant, but still very important, and their book is also going to include a lot of information on heaven, which is super duper important. Getimians just come along for the ride with Sidereals because they're supposed to be the Sid foil. Abyssals come after that because despite the prevalence of shadowlands, they underworld isn't consistently relevant to most stories, and you can tell a lot of compelling stories without ever encountering undeath related things if you have the other bits. as with Gets, Liminals just get packaged along with Abyssals. And, finally, Infernals and Alchemicals take up entirely separate worldspaces - Infernals are even less relevant than Abyssals and Alchemicals may as well not exist for all Autobot's worldscape has an impact on Creation.
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>>62926804
Eh, Faffle is making an Underworld kingdom, Mask is doing something with Thorns, Desus!Deathlord is doing whatever in the West. It might be a goal at some point in the future but they don't really give a fuck about it at the present
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>>62926804
>An Abyssal's entire goal is to kill you, and everything else.
I don't think that's a base assumption in 3e with what the chivalry of death or whatever.
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>>62926899
See, this is what I meant before with the changeover from 2e to 3e making every splat protagonists.

In 2e, Abyssals had two modes of play - you either are all about ending the world and do your best to end it, gleefully murdering people along the way... or you fought back against your oppressors, break free of your bonds, and become a Solar!

That's it. Every Abyssal had to fall into a couple formats like that because they couldn't actually end up being other things due to the conceits of the Deathlords and Monstrances.

By contrast, 3e Abyssals appear to be able to be psychopomps (people who help spirits into the afterlife), champions of the dead, murderbot supremes, or any number of things I haven't actually come up with yet. They're much broader, and have a completely different set of ideas for what they CAN be. Yeah, a Deathlord can still come over and kill them, but it's no longer a bomb collar - deathlords have to murder you the old fashioned way.
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>>62926495
>The thing is, the game is about Solars.
Sure, yeah.
>As in, the whole game.
No. That's in fact directly contradicted by the words of the people writing the game, as just about any discussion on the place of non solar splats says so
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Where's the line where enemies are too strong for mortals? After the lore

I am planning a mortal campaign with Scion: Origins and just designing NPCs, Beasts and other stuff.
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How is the Novel?
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>>62915085
It's not weird for an exalted, who are pretty big on the whole Übermensch "I create my own morality" thing.

The issue is that many devs and players are really, really into slave mentality those days. They don't understand how an ancient hero can function or how old mythologies were written because they don't understand anything that isn't rooted in Untermensch, apology-of-weakness, compassion-as-weapon, morality.

We got literal Untermenschen writing a game where you roleplay Übermenschen. It can't work and the setting is starting to get really frayed at the edge because of that.
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>>62926132
Neither did the Exalted without their exaltations. Frankly I don't even know how the fuck Solars are supposed to work, supposedly they get their exaltations after doing something awesome, but that's impossible for a mortal to do.
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>>62928155
>compassion-as-weapon
What is this supposed to mean, because that sounds pretty Exalted to me. Maybe because I've been reading too much about demons and their compassion is pretty dangerous, at least to mortals.
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>>62929070
He means that Christian morality has spread the idea that righteousness begets power, if you are a compassionate, empathetic, God-fearing man then Jesus will be on your side and through him you will have the power to smite your enemies and help the poor. That's why things like the DnD Paladin are so popular, because they are based on that idea.

But Exalted doesn't work like that, you don't gain power because the forces of righteousness are on your side, you gain power either because you were born with it (Terrestrials and Sidereals) or the gods, who are far from being decent beings in the Christian sense, decided you ought to have it for some arbitrary reason. And thus you are better not because you are right, but because you just ARE. And so the concerns of lesser species such as mortals ought to be beneath you, compassion is a weakness because it stops you from embracing your own inherent superiority. The mortals exist to give you prayers, slave away at menial jobs for you, and occasionally be a fucktoy. That's it, don't assign their lives any more value because they have none.
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>>62929127
The fact that being Exalted really doesn't imply you have any specific moral outlook is a pretty cool factor, but I've got to say that as characters I find that people who care about other people are more compelling than people who don't give a shit about anyone, so meh.
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>>62929243
Compassion is a perfectly viable weakness to give your character (heck even the mechanics of the game acknowledge this), but it'll never be anything other than a weakness. Mortals are like ants, if you break into tears every time you accidentally step on one you're gonna have a bad time.
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>>62928069
It’s been linked upthread
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>>62930633
Can't read it right now, so asking for opinions before committing time to it.
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>>62931140
Underwhelming. It felt generally underwhelming.
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>>62928529
Solars get their exaltions from doing something awesome (or incredibly dangerous) and succeeding-Or near enough to succeeding. Challenging a Dragonblooded while the rest of your men escape, for example, and going a few rounds with him might earn you a Solar booster shot. Or it'll probably end with you dying horribly.
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>>62931705
Would "have sex with a mad lunar and survive it" count?
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>>62932029
That'll more likely turn you into a Lunar than a Solar...
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What tier of armor is better, wether they're Artifact or not? Light or Medium?
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>>62932029
Lunar if you survive, Abyssal if you don't, Infernal if your dick is so small it makes her laugh before she mounts you, Solar if you make her orgasm with your 12 inch meatsaber.
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>>62932194
Depends on your build.
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>>62932196
And if you just so happened to dick her at a certain time when you're destiny is realized. You'll become a Sidereal. What a fun way to be introduced to the 1,500 year long Lunar-Sidereal conflict.
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>>62928155
You're missing the fundamental point that the game is played by humans who do not think like that. It could make all the sense in the world as an in setting thing and that doesn't matter a single bit, because asking the players to sympathize with a person who eats babies as a social power move isn't happening, period.
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>>62932453
>because asking the players to sympathize with a person who eats babies as a social power move isn't happening, period
Then they're not roleplaying. Because thats what roleplaying is. Playing a role. Not you and your modern sensibilities. Which is something seemingly lost on the SJW dev's and players at large, these days. Since everyone always wants to play a game as a wish fulfillment exercise, and not a game where you're not playing "You, but in a funny suit, and maybe with a 15 inch dick and Conan muscles".
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>>62932453
>sympathize with a person who eats babies as a social power move isn't happening, period.

Speak for yourself, I find it very easy to use my life experience to relate to them
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What defences does Denandsor have?
What causes people to go mad?
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>>62932500
No, you're ignoring my point. I'm not talking about roleplaying, I'm not talking about the characters, in talking about the players. I've already seen this very sort of thing played out, shortly after the preview was released. The person in question took objection to the fact that text was presenting this as an acceptable thing, not that certian characters from in creation might consider it so.
These are games about playing someone other than yourself, but you literally cannot avoid the fact that no sane human being is capable of completely detaching their thoughts from themselves and their own way of thinking. That isn't possible, at all.
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>>62932623
Then you've got shitty players, anon, who can't distance themselves from the idea their characters might do something like that. No shit the idea of eating babies is pretty fucking gross to people, but 1: It's a game, and 2: Your characters aren't you, unless you're doing as cited above, playing "You but in a funny suit".
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>>62932756
Again, you're kinda misunderstanding. It isn't about the things, it's about presentation. People can play cynis scions who deal heavily in slave trade or abyssals who go around murdering entire towns, but the books present those as indeed bad things. The problem is that the text seems to be presenting raksi as a normal person, or at least that's the hangup for the people I've seen complaining so far
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>>62932500
>modern sensibilities

Even pre-modern there were PLENTY of societies that outlawed cannibalism. This is not a new thing of the modern.
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>>62932613
There's a write up on Scribd about Denandsor but...
Scribd.
Fuck that thing, you know.
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>>62932194
In my experience medium. Lighter armor is supposedly more mobile, but the penalty only goes up to a whopping -2, which amounts to not a lot of difference overall. Maybe I'm just using the wrong builds though, who knows
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>>62928069
"Hm so about the new novel, apparently from what I heard of it, it looks like the Gold and Bronze are no longer actual factions but are just references to ancient philosophies that modern day Sidereals can agree with. Also the matter of Usurpation is now a matter of rumors for the modern Sidereals, that they don't really know what actually happened in that time. Or at least something along those lines I heard"
To quote someone on Discord
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>>62933127
>That thing several still-alive Sidereals literally did and were a part of
>Just ancient philosophies and rumors
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>>62933127
So hearsay of hearsay?
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>>62925811
I'd call animal styles the Realm equivalent of having a Hitler painting in your house. people who know where it's from are either going to give you a knowing nod (Gold faction sids, lunars, general Realm rebels) or they're going to scowl at you, while guys who don't know aren't going to register it as anything important.
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When did Mask of Winter take Thorns in 3e timeline? I remember Empress disappeared RY 763 and the game is supposed/suggested to start 768, 5 years after that.
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>>62932879
Literally nothing about Raksi was ever portrayed in Exalted as a "good thing". Ever. Who the fuck ever said it was? Are these the same kind of retards that think because people meme'd about DB breeding camps that they were a thing in the setting?
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>>62932623
I see where you're coming from, this is why limit breaks where introduced.
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>>62924870
>There's little luck involved, they either deem you worthy or they don't.
How could that possibly make luck irrelevant? Whether the Incarnae or Yoxis, who are not omnisiciebnt and therefore not aware of everuthign that goes on int he Creation at all times, happen to notice you at all is at leats partially dependent on luck. Whether they happen to notice you when you're at your best is also partially dependent on luck. There's no escaping this, and it's fine.
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>>62934083
I think you've had enough, anon
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>>62934083
They are omniscient in regards to who they get to chose. None of them are constantly looking down with those opera spyglasses and scanning around for cool mortals, they're over playing the games, and yet mortals are uplifted all the same. You're attempting to apply rational to something that is in setting explicitly referred to as a miracle, that isn't going to work.
Also another change, you don't need to be doing something cool at the moment to be exalted. I mean that was always at least partially the case, what with panther being exalted for staring wistfully into the sunset, but it's even moreso now.
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>>62925475
>Like people who are strong, fast or smart in real life?
Or brave or strong-willed enough to overcome their other shortcomings, really. Personality has a strong innate, biological component, at least accoring to our current best knowledge. People have all kinds of utterly undair and undeserved advantages and disadvantages. That's just life. Equality is about giving everyone a chance to do as well as their personal qualities allow them to, and fairness is about certain basic human rights being secured for everyone, including the people who drew the short draw in terms of genetics and/or circumstances.
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>>62925946
>In fairness, in real life a person who can run faster than another person can run faster than that other person.
Not really. Person A can defeat perosn B in a running competition most of the time but not always. Every person has situational variance in performance.
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>>62915300
Alternately, babies are fucking great spy forms.
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>>62933127
So Ketchup is dead?

I mean I kind of like that idea that modern Sidreals don't really fully know or care about the factions but it kind of clashes with the fact that ancient Sidreals are still alive and the fact Sidreals live for 5000 years so its not like its hundreds of generations of Sidreals dying since that time so things get distorted.
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>>62934517
He's in the chapter fiction in the core
I wouldn't trust 'I heard from a guy who heard from a guy' as a reliable source anon
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>>62933127
The philosophies part would kinda make sense. Up until under five years ago the gold faction didn't have anything to really do in direct opposition to the bronze. They're more or less working towards the same goals, just disagreeing over this thing that happened ages back
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How great is the danger of being raped by demons in malfeas if you are mortal?
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>>62934736
Depends on how you got there. This is 2e lore, so your mileage may vary, but it's mostly based on whether or not you already "belong" to a demon in Malfeas. Obviously serfs can't own property and whatever citizen, peer or unquestionable the serf serves under is allowed to seize whatever a serf owns without legal repercussion. The best bet for a mortal is to be the property of an unquestionable who has no interest in doing anything untoward toward them, but it's the rare Third Circle demon who has need or interest of mortals that is anything other than unpleasant.
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>>62926598
>Thats why they're the core book
Somebody has to be in the core. The splat with fewest current day ties and least unique fluff to be learnt is an obvuous choice, because it's the easiest choice. There's also an argument to be amde for publishing the strongest splat first to establish the upper limit of Exalted power and to avoid later power creep. None of this has any implication for who the main characters of Exalted are supposed to be.
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Would surviving a deadly disease get you exalted as Lunar
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>>62928529
Solars get Exalted when they impress Sol. That might mean they mastered a century old sword art and it might mean they just set out to see every pole in Creation
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>>62934991
>There's also an argument to be amde for publishing the strongest splat first to establish the upper limit of Exalted power and to avoid later power creep
It's funny because power creep has always been a thing in Exalted, and every game line in general.
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>>62935054
You're not going to find a canon answer to would doing this particular thing get me exalted. Both because there aren't stringent definitions anymore, and because even in editions where there were it also depended on the nature of the person doing that thing
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>>62934143
This is actually, factually true, and explains my typos but does not, and I believe I will stand by this when I'm sober, invaldiate my core point.
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>>62935091
I mean, it has rarely actually worked, but it's still a solid idea.
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>>62933387
764. Core page 116
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>>62935054
It depends entirely on the whims of Luna. Maybe you survive the world's deadliest disease and get nothing. Maybe you survive a minor cold and get exalted. The gods are nothing if not fickle.
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>>62935468
Gods don't control Exaltion. They literally had to make it so they couldn't, because otherwise the Primordials could've told them "Hey, don't do that" and problem would've been solved right away.
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>>62935507
What exactly does Lytek do anyway?I know he's the God of Exaltations, but I don't know the details.
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>>62935527
In 2e he scrubbed the Exaltations of memories of their past lives, he just chose not to do it 100% because he's a troll. In 3e I don't think we know yet.
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>>62935527
Thats the thing, he doesn't really do much. He prunes old memories off Exaltions (or not, depending on his mood), and...Thats it. He has no control over them really. He also knows of the GC but doesn't tell anyone, for the same reason several other Gods know of it but don't tell anyone: Because they're all retarded or bound by unknowable bullshit.

Which really makes me question why they bother having them know if they can't or won't tell anyone because it's a moot point if they'll never say anything about it.
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>>62935507
Most gods observe and supervise their domain without being strictly necessary for its function. I assume Lytek will serve a similar role for Exaltations in 3E. Maybe he also served as sort of a liaison officer between Exalted and Yu-Shan during the First Age, and possibly as a mentor and advisor for Exalted during the Primordial War.
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>>62932453
>played by humans who do not think like that.
You do realize that cannibalism was relatively common in China until literally thirty years ago, do you? Sometimes, they literally ate babies, it was even seen as something of a delicacy.

>asking the players to sympathize with a person who eats babies as a social power move isn't happening, period.
I strongly question the intellectual capacity of your friends, because if you are unable to find someone that is able to conceptualize, or even sympathize, with a person who eats babies as a social power move, that means that your friend have the intellect of a... well.

Either that, or their slave mentality is so deeply ingrained you could as well talk to hardcore born again Christians. Which is often the case with a certain white "social liberal" type. It's not that they can't conceptualize a baby-eating demon. It's that they are playing at being repulsed by it because it is the moral thing to do, and that way they can gain greatness by pretending to be more virtuous than each other.

Compassion and weakness made weapons, truly something disgusting.
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>>62935720
I mean....Do you think exalted has a very high population of 30+ years old Chinese people?
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>>62935720
Gonna need a citation on Chinese eating people.

>>62935915
Given the amount of Wyld mutants and beastmen and other weird shit in Exalted, eating people probably isn't even that uncommon. Not something "normal" peasants do, but it's probably a thing that happens. Shit, it's possible that might just be part and parcel of some random podunk village's yearly sacrifice. You want good wheat, well, you better pick someone and have a nice long pig brunch with the local God.
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>>62935977
If anything cannibalism might be even more common in creation given that gods that demand it actually exist in the setting.
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>>62935915
I'm gonna go with what >>62935977 is saying and say that cannibalism would be one of the less weird things in the setting. I mean, for petes sake, mortals routinely offer human sacrifices, often of innocent people, to the Wyld and Exalted like Raksi so that they'll be left alone. Is it so strange to think that there might be a village or three that eats their own kin?
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>>62935720
Again, that's not quite what I'm saying
You can play a character who finds it acceptable quite easily, anyone can. I can play a person with whatever horrid worldviews you care mention, or in this case a person who is fine with them at the very least, that's not the problem. The problem is with the people on the other side of the character sheet. I can make an abyssal who believes that all life ought to be snuffed out, and that this is the only purpose he's been given his powers. However if the book presents that as an acceptable viewpoint, that's going to cause some issues, as most people playing the game would take objection to that. That sort of gap is why people are fine with vampire for instance, but beast is regarded so poorly
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>>62935977
>Gonna need a citation on Chinese eating people.
This is probably anon's source. No idea how good the books referenced are, but this is fucking Wikipedia so I'm assuming the answer is "they're bullshit": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_China
>>
>>62936057
>However if the book presents that as an acceptable viewpoint, that's going to cause some issues
When the fuck has the book ever presented eating people as an acceptable thing in real life?
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>>62936057
>However if the book presents that as an acceptable viewpoint, that's going to cause some issues, as most people playing the game would take objection to that.
Okay, but that's their problem. Exalted is not supposed to be a setting where normal human morality applies, and if the book supporting ghastly behavior scares away some faggot who was hoping for a noblebright adventure story, then that's all the better for the rest of us who properly understand and like the setting.
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>>62935507
I thought Luna chose every one of her Lunars since she personally gifts the exaltation.
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>>62936259
It's a weird unexplained space, given those visitations would still happen if someone somehow offed luna
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>>62936259
That's how I remember it as well. Doesn't she personally visit them at the moment of their exaltation? I wonder if there's any examples of anyone refusing an exaltation.
>>
>this thread
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>>62936292
The game sidesteps the weird I Never Asked For This case by just saying that people who genuinely would not use their powers, either because they don't want them or they have no ambition to change the world, don't get chosen
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>>62936357
There's a canon Solar that hated the caste she was exalted into, but she still wanted to be exalted so it's a gray area.
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>>62936404

Time for a new thread I think.
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>>62921195

It's not the setting, but the mechanics that prevent mortal campaigns from working out.

Die pools are too small even for tasks a normal person should have a half-decent chance of success...
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>>62928529
>supposedly they get their exaltations after doing something awesome, but that's impossible for a mortal to do.
Bullshit. Mortals do tonnes of crazy stuff every day.
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>>62933127
Wait, so there's an actual Exalted NOVEL now??
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>>62935296
Thanks





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