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Boldly Going Edition

Previous Thread: >>62853681

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/


Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Modiphius takes down links for the ST:A core book and expansions. Look in the archives or ask someone to send it to you via discord. Or... you know... buy the rulebook(s).
>>
Are there any games that have the great feel of exploration, wonder, soft posthumanism and crew cooperation that ST has without being set in ST universe (or made in such a way that you could generate whole regions, complete with races and planets and politics, that do not require knowledge about the Star Trek franchise)?
>>
>>62919453
Not that I'm familiar with. Trek has its own feel and there really isn't anything else that has the same feel. A game like Traveler has some of it but not all of it. You could probably kitbash something together on your own though that has the right qualities to it. Start with a generic sci-fi like Traveler and edit appropriately.
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>>62919453
Space 4x games come to mind although they are of course centered around the whole state and not a single ship.
I would be interested in a game you described myself.
>>
>>62919453
The first Mass Effect was basically "what if Bioware made a Star Trek game?" and even that has wide divergence on several levels.
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>>62919520
It has completely different tone and feel in my opinion.
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>>62919453
Uncharted Worlds is decent. It was largely created with the intent of being a generic Trek equivalent. Similarly, Lasers and Feelings is worth a look.
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>>62919504
>>62919520

I meant tabletop games desu.
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>>62919568
Tabletop games are typically only limited by your imagination. Everything listed is in the hands of the GM and/or players with no mechanics actually needed.
>>
Anyone ever play Star Trek tabletop RPG?
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>>62919588
If someone asks about a game that would fulfill specific requirements, is telling them "you can do anything without mechanics/a game at all" really the answer?
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>>62919453
Stellaris maybe
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>>62919629
Yes, because the answer is "all of them."
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>>62919622
Yeah, a number of us have played Star Trek Adventures, the most recent (and IMO the best) Trek RPG around.
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>>62919629
I think he meant that you can pick a game system and adapt Trek setting for it.
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>>62919668
Too bad no one plays it in my town.
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>>62919755
Do you have friends who like Star Trek? Teach it to them. The game isn't that hard to learn, you can learn it in about 30 minutes if you're so inclined.
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>>62919414
It's still an issue if they're possessed because they represent a threat. Some of them die in this condition; it's nit picking to suggest they're not corrupted just because they wouldn't have chosen to act that way.

It's also flippant to suggest that certain rulebreakers and even conspirators should be let off because they had the needs of the many at heart; that was what led Dougherty and Cartwright to behave the way they did. The legal distinctions matter and their non-enforcement is a running issue with Starfleet, where the loss of ships and crew is routinely handwaved as wacky space shenanigans instead of dealt with - this is purely convenience for the narrative form of tv and movies, because nobody wants to sit through another court martial episode as long as they live. Every show did one and they were all bad, even the ones with good performances, usually because someone was clearly insane from the top of the credits to the final act but nobody called them on it.
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>>62919805
Okay but that's not what the original argument was so your entire post is irrelevant.
>>
Guys a friend is starting a STG adventures campaign. I enjoy watching the series but can't put myself in the world. What should I read/watch to get some idea of how people interact outside of the bridge? Or just in general to get pumped.
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What would have happened if the plot in Undiscovered Country succeeded? Would either side have had the decisive advantage at that point?
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>>62920837
Klingons still fucked and the Federation wasting resources and manpower trying to grind them into the dust instead of ending the war peacefully? Absolutely a Romulan plot, and their ambassador was named as one of the conspirators.
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>>62920949
This. Whichever side starts losing, the Romulans will either attack in a land grab or support to prolong the war and increase casualties between their 2 greatest rivals.
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>>62921074
Romulans don't even need to attack anyone directly. The Federation prolonging the war, especially after diplomatic overtures by two Klingon Chancellors, will by itself destroy any credibility in the Federation as an institution. Neighboring powers will be less inclined to get close with the Federation, some Federation members may consider seceding, and since the Federation's whole strength is expansion through peaceful and inexpensive diplomacy that'll weaken them considerably without the Romulans having to lift a single finger.
>>
Bajorans sending releif and aid to Cardassia post war?
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>>62920837
Short term, the Klingons have the initiative. They need to secure more sources of Dilithium to stay competitive and they have an enormous hardon for war against Earth.
But this is about as militarised a Starfleet as we’ve ever seen. The fleet is fully geared towards fighting the “inevitable” war with the Klingons. It’s hard to see them losing much territory without inflicting harrowing casualties on the Klinks.
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>>62921362
They can barely feed themselves with significant help from the Federation. The only aid the Bajorans could possibly offer would be supporting the Federation and booting the Klingons and Romulans out of their space.
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>>62920075
Gonna have to be more specific when you say how people interact outside of the bridge. There plenty of that in all the shows.
If you want something to read with a Starfleet flavour, your best bet would probably be the Typhon Pact or Destiny novels.
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>>62921392
>They can barely feed themselves with significant help from the Federation
Which makes no goddamn sense with the existence of replicators. 'Famine' should be as dead as smallpox in that era.
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>>62922325
Is this another thread where some autist ignores the fact that replicators have a ridiculous power requirement due to how they work, and that Bajor simply does not have the infrastructure to support that on a large scale? Not to mention needing to actually make or import the replicator tech itself?

At any rate, Bajor remaining neutral on paper during the War itself probably worked out well for them. They ended up with a not-insignificant amount of Cardassian and Dominion aid due to Dukat being his usual arrogant self wanting to be seen as a benevolent hero by the people who rejected him, and the Federation certainly had nothing against them when they retook DS9 and themselves made some infrastructure improvements to the system as a whole. Bajor probably ended the War in maybe not an amazing position, but probably at the very least stable in being able to take care of themselves. Maybe even being able to send a bit of aid to Cardassia for offhanded reasons.
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>>62922508
>ridiculous power requirement
A single starship is filled with them to the point that they make recreational quasi-matter holodecks out of that shit. Obviously whatever headcanon you're using to justify your idiocy doesn't apply to the actual setting.
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>>62922570
>A single starship
smashes matter and anti-matter together regulated by a fake phlebotinum material and also needs to power at least half a dozen different systems that violate real-life physics as part of their basic operations.
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>>62922616
Almost none of which goes towards replicators. Or are you forgetting that rickety cardassian pieces of shit like deep space nine, powered by fusion reactors, also had replicators fucking everywhere?
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>>62922672
>device capable of converting raw energy into matter at the atomic level
>hurr it doesn't need power
Christ the mental gymnastics.
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>>62922729
>shown doing exactly that across multiple shows and multiple continuities
>BWAHH LISTEN TO MY BULLSHIT INSTEAD
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>>62922672
>powered by fusion reactors
Yes, because sci-fi devices that slam molecules together to generate power are totally irrelevant garbage.
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>>62922729
Nigger, shuttles have replicators. Whatever space magic they use obviously doesn't require gigantic sources of power.
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>>62922325
The actual answer to this is that the writers hated replicators and tried to pretend they didn't exist.
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/21/ron-moore-replicators-words-wisdom/
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>>62921780
Thanks for those tips and you're right I get that point. Some of the campaign may have paramilitary, non-space aspect to it. I haven't seen extended ground-based combat in star trek so I am struggling on what we may equip ourselves with and what tactics may be in play. These are questions for the GM but I guess I was wondering if there are any rebellion story arcs with alot of detail.
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>>62922325
Bajor does not by itself have replicator technology; it’s basically being “lent” to them by the UFP on a provisional basis (and even then only after the wormhole is discovered) to help them get back on their feet.
Starfleet is justifiably leery of giving underdeveloped cultures access to to too much replicator tech because they might misuse it, which in DS9 itself is shown at how Bajor nearly collapses back into civil war TWICE during the course of the show due to how unstable the provisional government is at first.

You give a bunch of idiots the power to feed themselves and the power to build literally any gun they want and a lot of the time they’ll start building guns and shooting each other first because as aforementioned they are kind of idiots already.
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>>62924280
Replicators aren't some super secret technology, they're integrated into all the alpha quadrant warp cultures and have been for centuries.
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>>62923491
Be 'The Only Sane Man' of starfleet. Shipboard uniform is an armoured combat Hazmat Space Suit, red alert etc, closes compartments sll over the dhip, everyone is harnessed to their posts, which all have crash couches they man tgeir stations from etc. Your interior setup engineers actually stufied their OHS etc. Manuals so everything is NOT a fucking deathtrap insofar as it can be made safe.

Landing parties never consist of senior officers and also go down in their service uniform combat EVA hazmat suits.

Your suit also has to have integral tricorder, floodlight, FLIR and Xray scanning with hud overlay and NVG. And each suit has a backpack jet unit and a belt with 3 weeks minimum super concentrate food cubes foid medicine supply.

And everyone is always armed. No one is allowed to even be on the ship that cannot pass starfleet securities most stringent demands of service. Even the science staff have to train and be just as hard as the hardest security bastard aboard.
>>
Each 'squad' or unit aboard ship etc, also must have at least one emergency generator and one replicator with them. Portable survival kind. Where an irl squad would have an engineer and a machine gunner.
>>
Also, the engineers who built your ship have actually heard of little things like circuit breakers and fucking redundancies, so exploding console syndrome is not a thing on your ship etc. Instead of system X getting blown out and taking 20 days to fix, it merely shorts the breaker and turns off for a few seconds until shits been rerouted through the umpteen redundant pathways.
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>>62924880
Don't non-Federation engineers regularly chide Miles for Federation tech having too many back-ups and failsafes, or is that me imagining shit?
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>>62924736
>integral tricorder, floodlight, FLIR and Xray scanning with hud overlay and NVG
Tricorders can passively detect across the entire EM spectrum, so FLIR, Xray and NVG are redundant.

You forgot the portable shield generators for the suits, and having holographic copies bulking up any away teams.
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>>62924736
One mind-controlling parasite and the whole thing goes tits up.

Sometimes it's good to build a bit of insanity and redundancy into a system. Gives you time to catch and fix the mind worms / alien ghosts / Romulan schemes.
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>>62924771
Jeeze, that's going to be expensive. Much more trouble than a uniform and a communicator. If anyone gets captured they're also carrying a really obvious societal chaos generator.
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>>62925326
>that's going to be expensive
>laughs in post-scarcity space communism
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>>62925002
Yes.
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>>62925375
Energy, time, expertise. Otherwise, why not have 100 warbirds for every Federation ship, or 1,000 Federation ships for ever warbird?
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>>62925714
Manpower shortage plus the setting's autistic refusal to use massed automated ships by anyone but the Borg.
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>>62925101
Yes, but the tricorder is primarily a portsble super computer. Its sensors are limited, wheras if you build an active and passive array of sensors all over the suit in places, you get better range, redundancy and better resolution etc.
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>>62925002
Still not enough. Federation must build everything in series, completely negating the point of redundancies.
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>>62925787
Considering a main ship's computer is apparently capable of casually, accidentally, simulating a hyperintelligent sentient being (without in any way impairing its other functions), plus a thousand other assorted bullshit abilities, I can see why you wouldn't want too many of them flying around.
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>>62925326
Better than the alternative. Starfleet issuing its members a cloth uniform and a commbadge just goes to show how low the federation values starfleet lives.

>>62925131
Thats what the helmets are for. Gotta go full magneto. Cant be having your armoured space suit just protect you from cold vacuum.mwith all the shit starfleets come up against crews shiuld have sequentially upgraded suits as they overcome more and more stuff, and it trickles down to the rest of starfleet via reports etc.
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>>62925787
>Manpower shortage
The only way this could be possible when the federation alone has like a hundred fully modern worlds is if starfleet service is considered the worst possible life path to be avoided by everyone. That's a theoretical manpower pool of half a trillion sentient beings. They could have ten thousand galaxies fully crewed and it wouldn't even be noticeable in a population breakdown.
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>>62925926
Or the attrition rate and requirements are ridiculously high.
>>62925882
>Thats what the helmets are for.
Oh, you think a helmet is going to save you? All it does is make you overconfident.
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>>62919203
That is SUCH a good looking ship, to have come from such a mediocre Akiraprise.
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>>62925949
Your suits encompass production versions of every thingamajig crews jury rig to defeat X of the week's attacks / effects etc.

All youre really doing is giving thw engineers and scientists more to technobabble gobbledegook with. If youre guys have a commbadge and a cloth uniform, engineer has to dissasemble 20 guys badges and sacrifice those mooks in order to cobble the transceivers in themninto a broad band 'jammer' that hhlocks the mjnd control bullshittery of today's horrible species /artifact / sentient neutron star.

If you have a suit already incorporating a dozen different defences against mind fuckery, then its just a case of 'muh modulations'-ing them, or invering the froonium switch in them, sacrificing no one.

Starfleet is just the federations laughing stock. They have to HATE everyone who joins. Think about it.

>SURE dave, we'll give you a multirole ship that isn't really good at any ONE thing,mand you and your like minded friends can go out into the unknown in skivvies! It'll be fun! Your lack of preperation will only result in roughly 25% to 66% casualties over your five year mission! But you can always put back into a starbase for more idi-volunteers!
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>>62919203
How plausible is it to play as a Ferengi bounty hunter?
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>>62926147
I really, really like these ideas.

Also in terms of the ship separation or Tactical and Security.
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>>62924736
>Shipboard uniform is an armoured combat Hazmat Space Suit,
That isn't sane, though. Bulky protective equipment reduced the ability of people to actually work normally, particularly when the tasks involve things like operating remotely complex machinery or performing maintenance, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of the activity that goes on on board ships, not to mention that the time required to don that equipment would reduce response times to causality situations or the manning of battlestations. It would also totally obliterate morale and after about a week of it everyone would want to kill themselves.

What you're suggesting is equivalent to requiring submarine crews to wear SEIE suits plus ballistic vests at all times, it would be unnecessary, impractical and unsustainable. If the canonical Starfleet approach is one ridiculous extreme you just posted another, opposite extreme.

The actual solution to Starfleet's total laxity is to take reasonable steps that enhance safety without impeding the day to day operation of the ship. That means you do not need to wear a fucking spacesuit in a pressurized environment 99% of the time, but it does mean every self contained space needs to contain enough emergency positive-pressure air breathing equipment for the maximum quantity of personnel expected to be in that place +10%. It doesn't mean lab technicians need personal force fields, but security teams sure as hell do. Again, the lab technicians don't need to be armed, but if you're expecting combat bridge watchstanders probably should be armed. There also should be more than one place to get small arms from, and more than one person authorized to issue small arms.

If you're trying to come up with realistic and effective practices for fighting a ship you have to account for the practicalities of shipboard life. You can't just blindly heap on measures that are ostensibly protective and assume the outcome will actually make sense.
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>>62926182
There was a Ferengi assassin/merc in The Magnificent Ferengi, so very.
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>>62926334
Yea. Obviously your actual security guys will always have a full phaser ritle on a sling they can carry at the shoulder.
Your medical guys will always have a full medkit with them.
Your engineers a toolkit.

And heck, the wall of everyones quarters will have stuff too for emergencies.

I mean, starfleet ships dont even have damage control kits in every goddamn room. Insane. Suicidal. Its like the federation is trying to get all its outgoing adveturous and curious types killed off.
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>>62926416
The difference between submarines and starships is that starships in trek are very much in keeping with the 'iron men and wooden ships' ethos of taking massive punishments and coming back and back and back.

Whereas IRL wet navy is basically ' if they 'see' you first, you die'
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>>62926416
>What you're suggesting is equivalent to requiring submarine crews to wear SEIE suits plus ballistic vests at all times
It isn't though, because the tech level should be high enough to integrate a lot of that into a comfortable uniform for normal duty. Maybe have an attachment for some of the really bulky stuff that would be near their stations but not worn normally.
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>>62926470
That's not really true. Starships in star trek don't really function like any real type of ship. They're able to engage in combat without taking any actual damage, fatalities from typical engagements are often really light, they're overwhelmingly more spacious for their crew sizes than most RL ships of any era and even asshole civilizations like Klingons have more regard for the lives and wellbeing of their crews than most age of sail navies.

They combine a lot of aspects of different periods of naval history with a bunch of their own fictional shit.

If submarines were as big as aircraft carrier and a wizard could magically transport people between the two you'd be getting close.
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>>62926555
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse and moving into overt unironic shitposting.
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>>62926504
>It isn't though, because the tech level should be high enough to integrate a lot of that into a comfortable uniform for normal duty.
It is, because we know what those technologies are like in-universe and they don't remotely resemble anything close to suitable for normal wear.

The closest thing I can think of is the TNG EV suit. And even then you'd want the gloves, helmet and life support unit to be separate due to their awkwardness. But you could certainly require bridge and engineering crew to report for duty wearing that and have enough gloves and helmets stowed in the area to be accessible in an emergency.
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>>62926689
How so? The only thing that is a direct holdover from the age of sail is boarding.
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>>62926694
The TNG EV suit was more of a mini starship than a relatively simple environment suit. First contact had suits that were basically just thicker uniforms, and if you care about nuTrek into darkness had suits that weren't even thicker.
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>>62926755
That is the suit I was talking about. I think you could get away with people actually wearing most of that suit that for most of a day.
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the entire issue of compact personal protection and environmental hazards was solved ages ago

the federation just forgot
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>>62926416
>The actual solution to Starfleet's total laxity is to take reasonable steps that enhance safety without impeding the day to day operation of the ship.
"Look, it's vitally important that main phaser power can be routed though the bridge terminals, the computer in your quarters, and the holodeck. Sure, it means the consoles sometimes explode, but there's going to be that ONE time we need it."
Reasonable safety precautions look a bit different when you can deal with greek gods, quantum filaments, and a sentient melon ambassador from Melonia V in the same week.
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>>62926825
>the federation just forgot
It does that a lot.
I blame Q.
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>>62926842
What is their long game anyway?
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>>62926838
Console explosions aren't even unrealistic. Warships are full of high pressure steam/air/water/hydraulic piping that runs behind watch stations, through berthing spaces etc. A 3000 psi stream of hydralic fluid spraying out from behind a panel would as deadly and much more gory than a typical star trek console explosion.
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>>62926885
Steal all the one-off solutions the federation keeps coming up with and use them to give the impression they're omnipotent jackasses.
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>>62926900
Well, yes, but it's shown explicitly that you can reroute power through the console. Basically, it'd be like wiring your entire house with ultra-high-voltage lines just in case you need to make your hair dryer into a temporary but very exciting flamethrower.
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>>62926182
>>62926429
They're called 'Liquidators,' and they are an ancient and respected profession necessary to the smooth and efficient operation of the Ferengi Alliance.
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>>62927167
Liquidators are inquisitors, the dude from that episode was far more hands-on.
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>>62926926
Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it's like, and that's why Starfleet does it. You need a temporary but very exciting flamethrower every other week when JACK THE FUCKING RIPPER decides to possess your chief engineer, while an old ghost man in a flowery cellophane dress demands all your civilization's children, but you can't deal with him because you're falling into a black hole and have to go back in time to escape it.
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>>62926926
considering that through EPS they have a universal power delivery system it's not completely unsurprising that it's possible to do this.

What's alarming is that it's possible to do that entirely via computer controls and there's no physical safety device in place to prevent you doing it without obviously intending to.
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>>62927368
The lack of physical safety controls is a serious issue. My main example goes to the holodecks. After the first breakdown problem, second at the very least, engineering should have installed a lever in the wall next to the main entrance that would manually cut all power going to the holodeck. How many problems would that have solved?
How about a manual power on/power off button on the ships computer?
A series of physical controls for ejecting the warp core when the automatic system inevitably fails?
I know Starfleet loves three tiered redundancy, so why isn't this the third, final tier of that? If the computer goes down or goes wonky, they're fucked, they can push buttons all they want. We've seen it happen in episodes like Disaster or Contagion.
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>>62926446
That's not unlikely.
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>>62927895
I wouldn't just expect ejecting the warp core to have manual local controls, but to have multiple different ways of operating it, like reactor coolant loop isolation valves on pressurized water reactors do.

That's the single most critical disaster preventing system on the ship, it needs to be operable without there being any normal form of power available at all and it needs to be operable both locally and remotely, ideally by a single person under super high stress conditions.
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>>62927994
Exactly. At worst, a hydraulic jack that literally pushes the core out of the ass of the ship.
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>>62928027
Hydraulic operation can be made double redundant. You can have the hydraulic motor that drives the core out be supplied by its own accumulators that do nothing else and you can also have that same system be operable manually via hand pump if the accumulators fail (obviously this will be hilariously slow, but it's better than nothing). The exact same mechanisms you use for that could easily be built with an electric motor too as another backup.

Then you can do whatever the fuck you want for the "normal" method of ejecting a warp core, probably you use a magnetic accelerator or pressor beam to shove it out as hard as possible or whatever.

Then every single mechanical component that can possibly size, like doors and clamps should have local overrides and potentially explosive bolts.
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>>62920949
>Romulan Fashion
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>>62929498
<3
>>
R-ready weapons!
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>>62926721
Since you insist on being stupid.

>and the fact that federation etc. Ships routinely survive beatings and even if theyre 'burnt down to the waterline' or 'only keft with a floating keel' starfleet rebuilds them anyway.
>tos connies and the doomsday m.
>voyagers year of hell
>defiant being evacuated to let it blow all its internals to hell after getting fucked by borg, and federation just repairing her and putting her back into service.

>and the fact that starfleet gives its guys the equivalent of a saioors outfit and then when shit goes wrong, men and women are left to clamber around inside hot sweaty smoky workijg spaces trying to fight the ship still, never knowing what the fuck is going on, and striving to survive, follow orders, whilst only the very few priviledged senior officers on the bridge actually know what the fuck is going on.

>ensigns and leftenants are mostly useless, with crewmen or 'proper officers' being the only useful ones.

>terrible casualty rates
>ships being out of reach and proper face to face contact for months and months at a time. Years in the case of the 5.y.m's equivalent to the old sailing into the unknown in exploration, cook and columbus style.
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>>62926900
Its not the rerouting, its the fact tgey have ZERO safety systems.
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>>62927952
Starfleet is a big conspiracy by the fuckheaded pollies and admirals to keep all the go-getters too low population, and busy doing other stuff, to ever organise, unify and overthrow their oligarchy, obviously.
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Nth for new uniforms.
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>>62928104
Heck, at least have manualy jacks built into the doors so you can rachet them open without power. Especially if you set condition one and all the everything closes and locks to become airtight.
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>>62922985
Shuttles also have warp cores. I think maybe you don’t appreciate just how much power even a tiny matter/antimatter reaction creates. Even a TOS shuttle could probably power the entire modern day earth indefinitely.
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>>62927176
>>62927167
If we’re talking about Leck, I think he was called an “Eliminator”
>>
Soon...
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Anybody know if there's a free copy of the ops division pdf anywhere?
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>>62932000
Just dropped, haven't seen anyone in thread mention it yet. If anyone's got it and is willing to pass around, we can do the discord thing again.
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>>62926919
>yfw the Q are just some guys from Federation middle-managment who have too many deus-ex-machina thingamajigs to play with
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>>62931094
that show is so unbalanced from a narrative standpoint. Nearly every episode is damn good (at least better than TNG's first season) but they cant figure out if they are a parody or a successor to star trek. I love it and almost hate it for that reason.

Because some of the episodes are so incredibly well told, only to be nearly derailed by a dick joke. The practical joke episode was incredibly well done the human leg falling out of the ceiling out of the blue was fucking perfect but then episodes like the Bortis daughter trial almost tell a compelling story, but then kind of almost falls flat with its execution. But what I do like about the show is that the shit that happens in previous episodes arent forgotten about like shit in TNG or other star trek episodes. Bortis' baby is still relevant and talked about in later episodes.

Its so frustrating from a fans perspective and a long time star trek fan.
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>>62933302
>that show is so unbalanced from a narrative standpoint. Nearly every episode is damn good (at least better than TNG's first season) but they cant figure out if they are a parody or a successor to star trek. I love it and almost hate it for that reason.
Probably because it's a Seth McFarlane show so it would've been pitched and picked up as a sitcom with lowbrow comedy, but Seth is legitimately a big Star Trek fan and he has Braga and Goodman co-producing it with him, so there's a lot of legitimate love for Trek that bleeds through into it. Consider it an affectionate parody, kinda like Galaxy Quest.
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>>62933302
McFarlane originally wanted more of a drama with comedic moments than a comedy with dramatic moments, but the network forced him to make the latter thinking that it would sell better (given the positive reception to the pilot, they may have had a point). However you can tell that the network backed off for later episodes. Note the jokes become a bit more subtle or well-paced in the later episodes of ORV than in the first few (especially the pilot).
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>>62933445
Galaxy Quest was a parody without any real consequences because it was a 1-and-done movie. It was a good movie, but still just a movie.

You can clearly feel the love for ST in the show, and MOST of the jokes are really good and play out nicely (like getting Bortis to eat crazy shit, or Bortis and his work/relationship issues, shit just about everything about Bortis is great). But you can go from a episode where a slime norm macdonold is fucking the doctor, to a 'pure democracy' is going to murder a crew because they were being a jackoff as meta commentary is discordant with the overarching story they are trying to tell. but as a star trek parody, it fits the idea of the story they are trying to parody.

Take for example the over arching story about the Captain and his XO. from episode 1 he comes home to find out his wife is cheating on him. Later on the guy who cheated on his wife with is needed for a mission, and you find out that because of his unique species effect on others, it forces people to fall madly in love with him, and that the ex-wife may not have really had a choice in the matter when it came you cheating on him. and they start trying to repair their relationship. Only for the repairing relationship to lead to the captain willing to make a decision that fucks up a mission, and further colors his decisions later on that nearly fucks up a whole planet. In which the XO decides to leave the crew because the decisions the captain made prioritized her safety over that of the mission. It fits so well as a good story to tell, but the way they handle it was almost haphazard when you compare it to how the story is presented in an episode by episode basis.

The core of the show is really good. A lot of the surrounding parts of the story are really good, and the characterization and interactions of characters are really damn good. But the execution of said stories can vary wildly.

I really like it, but cant fully love it yet.
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>>62933485
I really hope the second season gives Seth more elbow room to work with. The show is generally really good. The characters are well written and the actors clearly enjoy being the characters they are playing. The way they get to fuck around on the set like your co-workers will fuck around (instead of being super serious all the time) makes the show really shit.

But the competing interests of Drama/parody vs Parody/drama hurt the show at the best of worst times if I am describing it right, its kind of hard to describe but anyone you talk to about Orville knows exactly what you are saying. The show has so much potential compared to Discovery's first season that its almost night and day. its just really frustrating as a fan of both Star Trek and Orville to see the Star Trek show being shit (though to be fair TNG's season 1 was really rough), and Orville being really good but really unbalanced. I see the potential in both (but more wasted potential in Discovery) and its just painful to watch where they both could have done so much better.
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>>62934004
>(instead of being super serious all the time) makes the show really shit.
dammit, meant to say make the show shine, but missed it when fixing other mistakes.
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Pastiche, not parody.

I have a good feeling about Season 2. Going back to re-watch for the first time since it aired, it's nice knowing that it's not all going to fall apart, which was a genuine concern of mine with the first season. Just a constant sense of if the next episode is the one where it goes too far into the comedy. But it didn't.

But for a first season that was a hell of a lot of potential on show even if they couldn't quite realise it. It didn't shit the bed, it showed what it was trying to be, it developed every character and made use of them (and even achieved that rare thing of doing kids decently), did a lot of setting building to make sure that things were not just knock-offs.

And I really like the approach of taking an old Star Trek plot (hard not to, there's full on simpsons-did-it-effect given there's hundreds and hundreds of episodes of star trek) and building on it in different ways and importantly, different conclusions.
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>>62935022
This show is a love letter to ToS and TNG.

It brings the classic morality plays of ToS and the forward thinking of TNG.

I think the robot and the doctor are going to hook up in season 2
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>>62934004
>and its just painful to watch where they both could have done so much better.

I think STD has a hell of a lot more steps to take to get to even passable status. But due to the adverse reaction, it might actually get them. Orville hit with something that needs refinement rather than reworking, and that can be harder to pinpoint and is less obvious when it works.

I'm expecting an upping in quality this season for Orville, since it's not having to establish everything, the characters are all in place, just a question of how much of an upgrade. Where as STD by the promotional material looks like it's not so much upgrading as moving sideways. I suspect people will prefer that change of lane though even if it doesn't result in an overall rise in quality, it might just be more acceptably bad instead of insultingly bad.

>>62935063
>I think the robot and the doctor are going to hook up in season 2
Seems likely. Even if not in a conventional relationship, Issac does seem to be trending towards surrogate father for the kids.

One thing I am looking forward to is the near-certainty of divorced couple snide remarks.
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>>62935022
I so hope it will improve. When the Fox-mandated joke quota isn’t ruining the tone of an episode, Orville is some of the best optimistic sci fi on tv today. I don’t hate humour in sci fi, but it needs to work.
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>>62925926
I figured that the requirements of Star Fleet were just really, really high - like the requirements of a Mobile Infantryman in the Starship Troopers novel. Only like 1% get out of boot and of that about maybe the same is qualified to be officers so you have this super elite force that's always under strength.
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>>62937402
We've only ever seen one Starfleet Academy, on Earth, and we don't even know how big it is or how many cadets are there at any given time, and it's established that regular crewmen and other non-commissioned members like Miles don't go to the Academy, and that's assuming they don't take after real-life navies (like they do with most other things) and have Starfleet Academy not be the only route to becoming a commissioned officer.
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>>62937402
So realistically an average Joe like me will in roughly the same position in the Star Trek future, with maybe a little higher life standards.
This makes me sad.
You may laugh at Barclay and find him relatable but he is actually a super genius in comparison and probably thousands times more capable than you.
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>>62938438
The main difference is that the Federation will typically try to help find you a vocation that matches your interests. You won't get to the top of your chosen field right away of course, you will have to work for it and prove you deserve to be there, but the first step in the door is far less adversarial.
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>>62932659
>Q is just an identity assumed by Section 31 agents to disperse tech and intel to the Federation
>They're shy around the El-Aurians because the El-Aurian know they are frauds
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>>62937402
>like the requirements of a Mobile Infantryman in the Starship Troopers novel.
Am I misremembering because when I read the novel only one guy got kicked out of boot and the MC only became mobile infantry because he was good for literally nothing else.
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>>62938605
Once John Delancie dies this will become canon, Q is essentially a one-actor-race.
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>>62938754
You’re correct. One dude gets booted out for assaulting a superior and one dude gets executed for going full psycho and killing a child. The requirements for the MI are no more strenuous than the average infantryman today.
Less so, even, seeing as Rico’s dad signs up and makes seargent by the time they’re taking another crack at the Bug’s homeworld.
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>>62925926
>>62937402
I figured that most of the people that subscribe to Starfleet for reasons other than humanitarian or research-related would be those that were restless in the type of utopia-world that Earth and the core planets have become. Those that washed out but remained determined are rolled into Section 31 before they disturb the peace. Section 31 itself isn't so much an elite intelligence organization so much as it's a place to give the "less evolved" members of humanity something to do that doesn't result in them causing trouble on their own planets the same way the crusades were devised as a mean to keep standing armies from turning on their own charges. The reason why Sec. 31 isn't disbanded in spite of arguably causing more harm than good for the Federation is that its members have no where else to go and are otherwise as incompatible with the Federation as the Klingons.
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As I sit here on a 60 year old ferry writing this post, I wonder what exactly it is that Federation transport ships do. The general lack of Feddie interest in trade and the presence of industrial replicators any place large enough to have a major reactor make me wonder what exactly they need flown around so much that "freighter captain" is seen as a common job title. Maybe they're all just smugglers like Cassidy?
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>>62939674
There are a ton of resources that can't be replicated, plus the setting generally treats industrial replicators as rare advanced tech outside the Federation (the Federation is just that much of a crystal spire utopia that they seem commonplace to the main characters). Plus hey, tons of people apparently prefer unreplicated goods, especially food.
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>>62939674
I mean, we see freighter captains moving shit all the time. Regulan wheat husks was given as something in an episode, for example. Just watch whenever they interact with a freighter to see what that guy's moving. Whatever it is, odds are good that the Feds do it the same way. There's a reason that guy's flying the stuff around instead of just using a replicator: someone's paying for the real deal. Feds aren't insensitive to that reality.
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>>62938838
By the time Rico's done with boot, those two were the only ones thrown out, but most of the thousand they started out with couldn't hack it and gave up. The other exceptions was a dude who was not physically fit enough for what the MI required but refused to quit and ended up a ship's cook, and at least one dude died after he was dropped off naked in the Rockies.
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>>62938754
Yes you are misremembering. The Starship troopers federation cannot legally refuse any volunteer. They HAVE to find something for you to do. If you're too shit for the MI and still insist on serving, they make you test terraforming gear and RnD shit on titan, or something else equally dangerous but useful. You don't even get into X service unless you make the cutoffs, and then as the other guy said, MI washout rate is gratuitously high.
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>>62942101
Do you still get the citizenship?
In reality everyone would try to act like they don't fit in MI to be sent to a less physically heavy job. Because people don't like to work in real life.
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>>62942238
Given that this setting is utopian fascism either everyone really does try or there are commissars with psych degrees making sure everyone puts in their all.
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>>62942238
They had psych screenings to filter those types out. You had to really want that citizenship. Arguably it's a better system than what we have now where the retarded, the insane, the incompetent, and the dead all show up to vote in Florida.
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>>62942238
>>62942287
Citizenship only gives the right to vote and hold public office. And you don't need to go military, any civil service counts (but military is most prestigious). Regular folks still get all the benefits of society.
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>>62942423
>They had psych screenings to filter those types out. You had to really want that citizenship.

...that seems really fucking abusable to filter out those who would want to use their voting to change the system.
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>>62938551
>the Federation will typically try to help find you a vocation that matches your interests
It doesn't help - it can't realistically help, what with the probably trillions of Federation citizens; even just the billions on Earth would be way beyond the scope of any mortal organization.
But it doesn't get in the way either (apparently). You can try whatever you want without worrying about being homeless and without food, at least on Earth (that probably wouldn't fly for long on a freighter or whatever).
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>>62942433
That's a reeeeal good way of creating a caste of merchant princes using the media and government as proxies.
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>>62942485
Compete with trillions of people... for the position of a janitor on a cargo vessel that travels between Earth and Vulcan!
You wanted that cool spaceship career like your childhood heroes Kirk and Picard, right?
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>>62942471
That's probably an outright design goal. Fascism in history usually arose as a result of leftists subverting a more open representative system.
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>>62942660
>That's probably an outright design goal. Fascism in history usually arose as a result of fascists subverting a more open representative system.
FTFY
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>>62942691
Hey now! That's true of Germany but in Spain and Italy they won through straight-up civil war.
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>>62942471
It doesn't seem like an abuse to screen out people who want to cheat to get a privilege and duty that other people have honestly risked life and limb and lost one or both for.
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>>62942722
Nazis were elected in Germany as a direct result of people getting sick of Antifa and other Marxist groups running around causing chaos.
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>>62942773
>It doesn't seem like an abuse to screen out people who want to cheat to get a privilege and duty that other people have honestly risked life and limb and lost one or both for.

Cheat? What part of 'voting to change the current system' would be cheating?
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>>62939674
Honestly, replicators make much more sense if they aren’t “I literally transform energy into matter” machines and more “universal constructors” instead.
Most of the dubiously canon tech manuals seem to imply this anyway by placing “reservoirs” of biological or non-biological material next to replicators.
So basically replicators still work with existing matter, they can just reconfigure it on the atomic or subatomic level, which means basic resources are still important to the Federation, though still MUCH less so then civilizations without replicators as they can turn a lump of iron into anything with the same basic atoms with a push of a button.
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>>62942905
>everyone would try to act like they don't fit in MI to be sent to a less physically heavy job

That's the part I'm considering cheating: trying to shirk your way through service to get to the franchise.

But, again, the system is designed to weed out people who don't have the character to use the franchise in a socially conscious way.
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>>62943025
>everyone would try to act like they don't fit in MI to be sent to a less physically heavy job

That's not what I was talking about though. I was talking about how the psychological test that can rule people out could be abused to also rule out those would want to use their voting rights to change the society. Since the people who can rule out you being able to vote, even if you're willing to serve in the MI to get that vote, are also the guys in government.
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>>62942857
They held one third of the parliament and then seized power.
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>>62943092
>That's not what I was talking about though.

I apologise. I misunderstood what you were saying.
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>>62943008
>they can just reconfigure it on the atomic or subatomic level
>subatomic
This is literally no different than what matter to energy replicators are capable of. Subatomic modification means you need mass, period, and don't care what form it takes. Get a lump of silicon and then convert it to carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen and voila, food. Skim a gas giant, get a really huge amount of hydrogen and convert that into tritanium, duranium, or whatever the hell ship hulls are made out of nowadays.
The only real limitation is that you can't use the energy output of something like a dyson sphere to create matter.
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>>62943251

Is cool. Yeah, I can see how you went with what you did (As that was a different thing people were talking about). I was just more concerned about it being really easy to socially legitimise removal of people from the voting pool who are willing to put in the work.
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>>62943306
>because there just aren't enough dirty, ugly jobs out there for all of the people who do want to sign up.

...what actually happens if they actually do find it impossible? Like, they do have too many people for the shitty jobs.
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>>62943298
>I was just more concerned about it being really easy to socially legitimise removal of people from the voting pool who are willing to put in the work.

I see.

In the book, at least, the system is presented that people who are honestly willing to put in the work will get into the voting pool, barring the danger of the service killing them. That part is intentional - the system is designed to make people value the franchise and remember for the rest of their lives they suffered for that duty and privilege.

But, otherwise, the people involved in the system are portrayed as incredibly supportive in the way of a paternalistic professor or sports coach who want all their 'boys' - i.e. folks who sign up - to succeed.
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>>62943321
They make shit up - field testing survival equipment, being a human guinea pig for medical treatments, or just brutish physical labour like "digging tunnels on Luna." They have to take you in as long as you can understand the oath.

"But if you came in here in a wheel chair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find something silly enough to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe. The only way you can fail is by having the psychiatrists decide that you are not able to understand the oath."
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>>62942238
Yep. Its why the service has to be brutal and harrowing, so that you 'prove' you care enough about it to risk your skin.
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>>62942471
Its deliberately abused. Veterans refuse to let warmongering, power mad fuckos ever get back into power in the starship troopers federation. Its why sky marshals, the ultimate military authority, have ONE term only of 2 years, and then theyre done.
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>>62942660
Starship troopers federation isnt fascist, paul you giant retard. Its exactly the same as the star trek federation, the membership is just far more stringent and designed to weed out cunts.
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>>62942905
The part where you'll never get citizen ship trying to weasel your way into power to fuck things up for everyone.
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>>62944391

So it's democracy but democracy where you're not actually able to change the rules of the democracy by voting?
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>>62944381
>Its why sky marshals, the ultimate military authority, have ONE term only of 2 years, and then theyre done.

That seems a terrible decision, from a warfare point of view. Changing your military leadership right in the middle of a war.
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>>62944559
Changing leadership happens all the time in real wars when people die, that's why a proper military establishes context and intent for orders whenever possible.
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>>62944388
>the membership is just far more stringent

I mean 'Like the star trek federation but people don't have equal rights unless they serve the state' is a pretty big point of separation. At that point you've got the politicians choosing the voters instead of the voters choosing the politicians. I'm aware that Starship troopers has a very idealistic idea of how it would work...but it seems like a terrifying concept, with that little real oversight.
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>>62944669
No. The franchise holders decide. Politicans get no say. They get one vote only. And all the franchise holders are vets.
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>>62944774

>No. The franchise holders decide. Politicans get no say. They get one vote only.

Yes, they very much are. The government has chosen it's voters by saying 'You must meet X criteria to vote'. They are setting up a situation where only people who are likely to agree with them ever get the chance to vote. They disencourage most people to vote, with only those who have served the government and thus been inundated with it's culture are able to vote.

>And all the franchise holders are vets.

And? What do veterans innately know on most topics? There is no moral or intellectual righteousness that comes from being in the military and I say that as someone from a military background.
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>>62944871
No. The veterans overthrew the governments of the world after ww3 and decided only veterans were going to get the vote.
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>>62944881
>No.

Yes. Because the veterans are the new government, they set up the new system that decides who gets to vote and they decided that only people likely to think like they do get to vote.
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>>62944903
No. The veterans are the new franchisees. Are YOU the government of your nation because you got the vote? No.
So shut the fuck up you paul vorhoeven dicksucking lackwit.
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>>62944921

I don't DECIDE who gets the vote. By becoming the authority on who gets the vote, the veterans who overthrew the previous government became it and set up the new one that disencourages most from having any input in their society.
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>>62944388
>designed to weed out cunts.

I mean, it's designed to weed out a particular sort of cunt. It's not really designed to make sure that everyone who gets a vote is politically educated and likely to make good decisions so much as people who support the status quo.
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>>62944954
Yes you do decide. The veterans became the new franchisees. Franchise holders are NOT a government. How are you this fucking retarded?
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>>62944974
Of course, you cant be telling peolle what to think / feel. That'd make you fascists. You do however not let people vote who aren't going to be active and responsible for it.
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>>62945010
>Of course, you cant be telling peolle what to think / feel.

But you can make it so that people who think/feel like you get to vote and others don't.
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>>62945000

And franchisees are part of the government. A non-government body cannot enfranchise people to vote (or more accurately in this case, disenfranchise others) because they are not the government. By becoming the authority on who can vote, those veterans became part of the government. You can scream 'not government' as loud as you want but by virtue of being the ones creating and enforcing the rules of political enfranchisement, they became the government. Government is a lot more than just 'Who is the ministers', it is about policial power. Yes, he was a communist but Mao Zedong has a very applicable phrase for this 'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun'. They had the gun, they made the political situation and thus set up the government.
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>>62945116
Franchisees elect the government, they aren't the government. The whole point of voting is to choose representation. You fucking moron.

Oh, i see, youre a fedora tipping retard too. No wonder.

I bet you think unlimited democracies are the bomb, what with every politician being a lawyer, or an mba. What with governments ruling in favour solely of minority business interests at the expense of the people. Yep.

Obviously a system where the politicians are all ex- doctors, nurses, researchers, engineers, teachers, fire men, police, armed forces, etc. And the only people left out are faggot business tards and fucking lawyers who never risked their own necks is totally fascist by comparison.

Go suck verhoevens dick harder already. Since you clearly never read the fucking book.
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>>62945149
Not him, but calling him a fedora tipping retard and then proceeding to be a fedora tipping retard with your very next paragraph is hilarious.
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>>62945162
Hes a fedora tipper because hes squarely in the 'veterans are evil violent bastards ruling at the barrel of a gun REEEE' which makes him a double faggot.
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>>62945149
>fucking lawyers

Wait...what? Lawyers are part of government service, they are the Judiciary. Judges and public defenders are not private companies.
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>>62945149
>Franchisees elect the government, they aren't the government. The whole point of voting is to choose representation. You fucking moron.

Except in this case, the government (In this case, the veterans who rebelled against their previous countries) has set up a situation where only particular people get to vote. Which was my point, the situation has been set up so that the voters voting for the representation has already been chosen and the representatives do not in fact represent the people of the country but a particular subset of it. I never said it was fascist, I said it was a situation open to hilarious abuse.
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>>62945185
>'veterans are evil violent bastards ruling at the barrel of a gun REEEE'

What? When did I say that? I never said that veterans were evil, so much as they are likely to be politically invested in maintaining a situation where only veterans get to vote.
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>>62945208
So does every democracy ever. Just because the limits X state puts on franchise holders is different does not magically make them the govt. You insane troll.

>>62945251
Your entire fucking argument is because the starship troopers federation was formed by veterans limiting the franchise, OBVIOUSLY they're facists.
Which is retard verhoeven cunt logic.

>>62945193
And an group of people who want even get up in court to prosecute a serial killer caught red handed without 20 thousand dollars being handed to them TOTALLY makes them worthwhile and trustworthy to hold all the power. Yea, because all these ex lawyers and mba holders have totally made govts for and of the people, they totally wouldn't have gone ahead and made govt that sells their people down the river so they can make a quick buck...
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>>62945317
>MY GROUP GOOD
>YOUR GROUP BAD
>What? I'm not a fascist at all
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>>62945341
>missing the point and sperging harder.

Do you not understand fascism?

By your retarded arguement, america is fascist. Since it was formed by violent means with a military force that then instituted a limited franchise democracy.
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>>62945317

>Your entire fucking argument is because the starship troopers federation was formed by veterans limiting the franchise, OBVIOUSLY they're facists.

I never called them fascists. Fascist is an annoyingly nebulous term anyway, as traditionally called fascist governments have not always lined up with each other. Mussolini's Italy for example can't even be lined up with Mussolini's Italy at some points because the man turned like a fairground wheel.

>And an group of people who want even get up in court to prosecute a serial killer caught red handed without 20 thousand dollars being handed to them TOTALLY makes them worthwhile and trustworthy to hold all the power.

...you know that most occupations get paid, right? Heck, police officers and teachers get involved in Labor Disputes all the time. You could apply that statement to all sorts of occupations and say 'X won't even do their job unless you pay them'. That doesn't make the Judiciary not part of the government and government service.
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>>62945341

Fascism is a really annoying term to use in general. While it has some recognisable traits, they don't tend to all line up even in countries that have historically been called fascist. Or as I said >>62945368 even in the same government at two different points sometimes.
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>>62945365
I mean, you clearly have a problem with (((lawyers))) and (((businessmen))) while glorified the military and hardworking public servants.
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>>62945399

Which is funny when a lot of laywers are public servants.
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>>62945368
See >>62942691

And then you went on to ree about how limited franchise is bad and makes the franchisees the govt. Inseperably in a one party retardation you claimed. Which is patently stupid since all democraciesthat currently exist are limited franchises.

You're being a faggot claiming that because a fictitious state in a book youve never read limits its franchise in a way YOU don't like, its bad and evil and wrong.

Which is why
>>62945399
I was heaping scorn at retard criticising a system of govt. In a book hes never read whilst jerking off being smug about his version of democracy as he sees the IRL ones being 'better'. So i pointed out some of the glaring flaws in IRL systems to showcase how insane the tard is being thinking a fictitious utopian system is somehow evil when IRL 'good' systems are capable of and indeed perpetrate and perpetuate abuses he'd see as 'evil' if he wasn't a brainwashed idiot.

By fuckwits logic the federation is a black hat evil empire. Since NO ONE has a fucking vote. We see a federation council, of ambassadors and shit, but we never see anything under that, we never see a crew of the enterprise etc. Voting for who's gonna be fed president, or humans voting for whos gonna represent the humans of earth to the council. So the federation franchise is even more severely limited than starship troopers'.
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>>62945368
Here
>>62942660
>>62945341
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>>62945575

Neither of those are me. There is more than two people in this thread.
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>>62945555
>Since NO ONE has a fucking vote. We see a federation council, of ambassadors and shit, but we never see anything under that, we never see a crew of the enterprise etc. Voting for who's gonna be fed president, or humans voting for whos gonna represent the humans of earth to the council. So the federation franchise is even more severely limited than starship troopers'.

Wait...what? Yes we do. Deep Space Nine: Homefront + Paradise Lost mentions this. The federation president expressly is an elected position.
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>>62945625
Where and when? We never see it.
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>>62945891

When there is a near military coup, Sisko points out that the president is the duly elected leader of the federation and he'll be standing with him.
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>>62945891
We never see a whole bucketload of stuff in Star Trek, doesn't mean it's reasonable to assume it doesn't exist. We don't need an episode where the crew of the Enterprise stand in line to vote (which reasonably wouldn't happen anyway given the level of technology) when the episodes have established that the Federation Council consists of representatives of its member worlds and that the President at the very least is an elected position.
>>
>>62945970
So, because hundreds and hundreds of hours of multiple tv series and films dont show it, thats ok, but because one short book also doesn't beyond outling the existence of the system and little bits of its structure, thats not OK?

You can't have it both fucking ways.
>>
>>62946515
There's more than one person in this thread genius.
>>
Finally got around to playing Star Trek Adventures. Holy shit, I never imagined it would be THAT bad. What RPG system is /trek/ using instead of that trash?
>>
>>62946801
Is it time for the stale pasta again?
>>
>>62946801
No one uses base STA. Everyone uses modiphius'(?) Redone versions.
>>
>>62946801
What's your problem with it, again? Because many of us have played it and found it both fun and accurate to the source material. Or are you baiting, as happens around here occasionally.
>>
Best girl coming through.
>>
She's so beautiful and wonderful. Other shipfus wish they were as great.
>>
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Absolutely beautiful. I'd say to post your own shipfus in fine /stg/ tradition but none of them can compete so don't waste your time.
>>
>>62945970
However we do know that bank accounts and bar tabs exist because we have seen those in action.

It would just have been nice for one of the crew of the Enterprise or DS9 to mention something. Maybe Geordi asking Reg what he thinks of the election and Reg saying something like "I'm from Tranquillity City, Luna elections are next year". Just a little throw away line or two. B5 was much better at this sort of thing.
>>
>>62947862
It's not an Atlas, Pioneer, Nova or Excalibur therefore not any sort of best girl.
>>
>>62947892
>>62947881
>>62947862

>Being this delusional.
come now, anon, you KNOW she, along with saber, sydney and norway classes are glorified runabouts. They're star trek MTB's not even on akira-chan's level. At least she's a full shipfu. I'm sorry, but your shipfu... is a shiplet.
>>
>>62947862
You’ve not posted:
>Excelsior
>Nova
>Nebbie
>Miranda
>Connie
>Intrepid
And you have the audacity, the fucking gall to say “best girl”? You, sir, are a raging psychopath.
>>
>>62948023
>>62948129
>>62948343
>pic related
If you're gonna try to shittalk (while actually being incredibly salty) you should at least post pics of your own (inferior) shipfu for review.
>>
>>62948597
Not him but I like the Soyuz.
>>
>>62947235
Redone what now?

>>62947634
The system is godawful. You may as well just assume success for each roll. It's so easy to succeed it may as well have no system at all, just people sitting around talking about a star trek scenario. It's also 100% Starfleet centric.
>>
>>62949158
...are you playing the system wrong? I've played a good bit of STA and players fail rolls regularly, especially when higher difficulty rolls are being called for (buying dice gets pricey fast since buying three dice at once eats your entire Momentum pool). You or your GM may be making things too easy if you're succeeding too much.

As for it being Starfleet centric, well yeah, it fucking says that on the tin. That's what the core of Trek even is: Starfleet. Every show is about Starfleet, It's all about Starfleet because that's what the source material is about. Not sure what you expected, my man.
>>
>>62947862
Your shipfu appears twice. One of those times it becomes burning wreckage.
>>
>>62950519
>Your shipfu appears twice
The Steamrunner appears 13 times. Once in a movie, ten times in DS9, and twice in Voyager. Try again, my man.
>>
>>62949158
You're seriously complaining that a Star Trek RPG is centered on Starfleet?
>>
>>62941319
Such a wasted character.
>>
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/tg/, tell me about your sexual organs.
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>>62953712
They are prodigious in scale and many females touch them regularly. Please take my word as my bond.
>>
The gametes of each "male" sex contain one third of the number of chromosomes necessary to produce offspring. During the conception of an Andorian child, the thaan fertilizes a shen's egg with his gamete. The chan then also fertilizes the egg. This produces a fertilized egg that develops into a zygote. The shen then transfers the zygote to the zhen's pouch, where it develops into an embryo. The Andorian fetus is incubated and nourished to term in the zhen's pouch. The zhen does not contribute genetically to offspring.
>>
>>62953548
Chell? Yeah, he sure was wasted.
>>
>>62953790
Keep your 4 gender shit to yourself. Don't start that crap again, we've had so many extended arguments about Andorian reproduction and the topic is just tired now.
>>
>>62953535
The idiot brings up the almost exact same troll post every few threads, don't think about it too much.

>>62953882
Was good in Elite Force. They really should have made more use of the rest of the crew though, it's not that many people on the ship after all and DS9 got away with something like 50 characters that at least got extra mentions even if not more than a couple of appearances. And lots of continually reoccurring extras without lines like Quark's Ferengi bar staff too.
>>
>>62954072
>The idiot brings up the almost exact same troll post every few threads, don't think about it too much.
It's especially notable since we query him about his actual concrete complaints every time and he never says shit. He just goes "IT'S CRAAAAAP", waves his hands in the air, and then fucks off forever. Real paragon of maturity, that guy.
>>
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>>62944669
>>the membership is just far more stringent
>I mean 'Like the star trek federation but people don't have equal rights unless they serve the state' is a pretty big point of separation. At that point you've got the politicians choosing the voters instead of the voters choosing the politicians.
So you mean like leftists realizing a country's population will never vote for their bullshit again and encouraging uncontrolled mass migration from more easily hoodwinked populations? Yeah that would be terrible.
>>
>>62954144
Keep your politics to yourself, especially when unprompted. Don't bring that crap into /stg/, regardless of your position. I don't care what you lean towards, /stg/ isn't the place for it.
>>
>>62947862
>>62947881
>>62947892
Excelsior is best shipfu. There is no argument, she just is... But the rest of the replies to you are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WRONG. Steamrunner is second best girl in the entire universe.
>>
>>62954531
You are still wrong, of course, but your acknowledgement of the superiority of the Steamrunner is acceptable to me. Excelsior is good too, though only the later refits. Ent-B refit is best refit.
>>
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>>62954677
Fun fact: my STA group will be flying that exact ship, the USS Fredrickson. In 2371 it was flying around doing unspecified stuff and it is known to survive the Dominion War but we don't know anything about her crew or captain, which makes it a good candidate for PC antics. Also, the Excelsior is a good PC ship with plenty of stuff it can do.
>>
>>62954723
I dare you to put a simple On/Off switch hidden deep in Engineering labeled "Experimental Transwarp Engine" that either sends the ship tumbling out of control at terrifying speeds or causes the warp nacelles to snap off their pylons from the sheer torque and rocket off at transwarp 15 (I know that's not how they work, but still). Something amusing that they'll use once and Never Again.
>>
>>62955068
I'll admit to a real temptation. We have a chief engineer, I might include that feature hidden somewhere for the dude to find and fiddle with.
>>
>>62955068
Nah the switch should be labeled "Warp Core #2." Somehow switching it on increases power output of the one and only core by 185% but no one really knows why or how.
>>
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>>62955068
>>62955691

Thanks, stealing these ideas for when I ever bother to run a campaign!
>>
>tfw I've ripped off Destiny, Ace Combat, Golden Sun, Animorphs and Sonic the Hedgehog for my STA campaign and my players think I'm being completely original
Not sure if their reference pools really are that shallow or if they secretly know and are pretending not to for the fun of it.

Have you ripped off anything for your campaigns?
>>
>>62956341
Would YOU admit to knowing that your GM has ripped off Shadow the Hedgehog?
>>
>>62956414
Be fair: he said Sonic, not Shadow.
>>
>>62956341
I threw what was pretty much Phantasy Star 4 at my players but seen from the outside.
>>
>>62956440
He's half-right
>>
>>62956341
I'm curious, what did you rip off from Destiny? Was it the Fallen or the Vex?
>>
>>62956596
Fallen and the Exodus Black/Failsafe from 2.
>>
My interpretation of the excelsior 'great transwarp experiment' is that she was the testbed for the new ftl tech the redefined the warp scale that we know changes in between tOS and tNG.

We know that the connie ent's warp 8 is not even close to the galaxy ent's warp 5/6 . We know that galaxy ents warp 9 is way beyond connie's 10 etc.

So maybe the warp scale is like mach ratings. Theyre subjective to the mass of the vessel and stuff like the objective space time continuum you're creating a warp bubble in. So warp factors, are just an indicative number of how hard youre bending physics over a barrel to give her a rough banging. And the sexcelsior, although it 'failed' at transwarp, (thouroughly ignoring warp limits altogether, making 'warp' obsolete) it suceeded, by letting starfleet figure out how to (to continue the analogy) make physics bend over eagily and love it when they break her even harder.
>>
>>62956887
Personal canon: whatever the original experimental drive had inside it needed to spin. Presumably, the entire warp core.
https://youtu.be/mkJ3--2K7yo?t=302
Terrifying thought, but hey, this is Starfleet. If spinning the warp core at 6,000rpm makes the ship a bit faster, that core's gotta spin.

Later warp cores used the up-and-down pulsing motion we see in TNG because... spinning wasn't really a good idea.
>>
>>62956887
>My interpretation of the excelsior 'great transwarp experiment' is that she was the testbed for the new ftl tech the redefined the warp scale that we know changes in between tOS and tNG.
I've seen that headcanon pop up enough times I'm willing to consider it fan consensus, which also dovetails into another (less common) headcanon that "transwarp" is just a generic term used to describe any technologically significant improvement from the current warp system, akin to us using "next gen" or other similar terms in real life.
>>
>>62957620
Or maybe they pulled an Xzibit.

>so we herd u liek warp bubbles. So we put a warp bubble inside your warp bubble so you can warp spacetime whilst you warp spacetime!

Also explains the two warp cores.
>imagine having to keep a warp bubble stable inside another one harmonics stabilising and feeding one into the other to technobabble magic make the warpdrive work 5x as good so you can go 'transwarp' (old scale) at 'warp 15', the new warp 5.
>>
>>62957726
Especially since the borg use decentralisation and a berjillionty drones constantly fixing shit amd eleventy gorillion redundqncies to have asynchronous transwarp.
>>
>>62957726
That makes sense given what we see of Voth transwarp drive in Distant Origin.
>>
>>62957784
And borg transwarp corridors, and qsd going warp 1000
>>
>>62956887
>the objective space time continuum you're creating a warp bubble in
It's called subspace.
>>
>>62957807
Which we know is 'different' depending on gravity wells and shit.
>>
>>62957807
We know they use warp bubbles to move via subspace ignoring much of physics and time dilation / relativity.
>>
>>62957620
Out of curiosity, where did you get the spinning idea? Is it an STD thing because of the spinning ship in that?
>>
>>62957833
It's the noise it makes when it breaks. Sounds like a high-rev engine spinning down. It's why I liked to the video.
>https://youtu.be/mkJ3--2K7yo?t=302 [Embed]
Tell me that isn't something spinning down.
>>
>>62957866
I haven't seen the movie in ages and honestly thought this was a fan comedy edit.
>>
>>62957833
STD spinning is the dumbest shit ever. Some hollywood idiot behind std decided star wars the phantom menace's anakin was the most genius character ever, and now tries to put SPINNING IS A GOOD TRICK into everything.
>>
>>62957879
In universe I bet the real answer is the design team is full of cripplingly autistic weebs.
>spinning, flashing, and other chuuni shit for no reason
>*teleports behind you* as an actual engineering goal
>said goal is accomplished through magic transwarp mushrooms and directed by channeling the main navigation computer through thr pain and suffering of either sapient space monsters or human beings
>>
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>>62957876
Hah, nope. The foley artists had a field day, I suspect.
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>>62958042
Jesus fucking christ, is THAT abomination the STD riddled corpse of the connie ent? What the flying ass monkey fuck?
>>
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>>62958071
This is.
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>>62958132
AH! MY EYES, THEY BUUUUUURRRRNNNNN!

Jesus, warn people and spoiler that shit before /d/ posting! Fucks sakes man!
>>
>>62958132
I had to hide that post. This is a blue board FFS.
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>>62958158
Oh calm down. It's imaginary spaceships.
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>>62958158
It's not as bad once you fix the lighting...
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/discovery-era-enterprise.php
>>
>>62958200
Its a violation and degradation of a great, classy lady, making of her a tawdry pox ridden whore.
>>62958235
It is as bad. All the godawful gribbly mcguffinings, urgh. Her pure smooth lines and curves, scarred and hacked apart, with shit carved into her hide and tacked on willy nilly. Its worse than a toddler smearing catshit upon a ferrari and smugly demanding praise for its 'art'. Its guro snuff/torture porn for /d/egenerates who hate Star Trek.
>>
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May: What the hell is that?
Clarkson: You like it?
May: It's an abomination.
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Haha, time for teal.
>>
>>62959549
indeed Daniel Jackson
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>>62959549
Is there something wrong with delicious sexcelsiorings?
>>
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>>62959679
Nothing, except I wonder if it comes in any other colours.
>>62959576
kek
>>
>>62959850
Mines in gorgeous tos grey or hot rod white. With sexy red trim and black highlights.
>>
>>62958328
May: Good god, it's even worse from the front!
Clarkson: At least it's got an even number of nacelles.
Hammond: FROM DIFFERENT RACES!
>>
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Clarkson: What I have here is an early armored spacesuit, meant for maximum SPEED and POWER when deploying into hazardous environments.
Hammond: Any chance it comes in forest green?
May: Good thing it was cancelled- I'm not sure the Nausicaans would have liked it...
>>
>>62960147
Clarkson: At least my ship doesn't leak radioactive waste.
Hammond: No, it just leaks oxygen. And antimatter.
May: And plasma!
Hammond: Right, and plasma.
>>
>>62958317
>It is as bad. All the godawful gribbly mcguffinings, urgh. Her pure smooth lines and curves, scarred and hacked apart, with shit carved into her hide and tacked on willy nilly. Its worse than a toddler smearing catshit upon a ferrari and smugly demanding praise for its 'art'. Its guro snuff/torture porn for /d/egenerates who hate Star Trek.

This woman has clearly become hysterical. Escort her to her quarters.
>>
>>62960280
>t. Serial killer

Fuckoff shitbird. Connie is not for defacing.
>>
>>62927167
Liquidators are IRS agents and repo-men rolled into one.

They're there to fuck you if you cheat too much, not enough, or if the Nagus just wants your business.
>>
>>62942857
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've read this year.

Congratulations, you've failed for an eighty-year old and easily disproven lie. Please sterilize yourself immediately.
>>
>>62945891
I've never seen Seven of Nine take a big greasy shit even after she started eating human food again, but since I know Voyager has functional bathrooms, that must mean her anus was assimilated and she periodically transports fecal matter out of her ruined digestive tract and back into the replicator for reclamation.
>>
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Ehm
It this a toilet queue? The door sign says "Refresher, read instructions before use". It is in the bar/restaurant on Earth Spacedock, looks like a toilet. The second door is "authorized personnel only".
>>
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One guy looks like he is rioting or something.
>>
>>62961170
Omega Glory Hole
>>
>>62960426
>Connie is not for defacing

Ultimately this. Though I would argue that it is for scars earned in service.

They could do a series following the service life of a Constitution class shit. It starts with it rolling off the production line in the Mars dockyards all crisp and new and if follows the notable events in it's history with an average span of 5 years between each episode. As time passes the new car smell wears off, the paint gets scratched, the fabric starts to fade, new scars are gouged into it and replaced with newer materials that don't quite match the colour or texture of the old stuff. Crews come and go and after one fateful event it gets decommissioned and left to gather dust in the ship grave yard. Wolf 359 happens and it is hastily reawakened back into service on the principle that the Cube can only shoot so many things at once and any shot fired at the old rusty shit is one less hitting anything important. Last Connie survives, barely, but is crippled.

Due to the massive recruitment drive in Starfleet post Cube to replace the losses they need additional exercises to train engineers and the Last Connie is used as a teaching prop for a while in which time it is repaired by inexperienced students and eventually crewed by other inexperienced students. It just kind of limps around the core territories of the UFP.

Then the Dominion War happens and they slap some new paint on it, replicate some parts that should fit and probably will make it work, have real engineers tighten some bolts and make it properly space worthy and have it take up some of the less critical duties to free up marginally better Mirandas. Crewed by a few legitimately placed Star Fleet officers (captain, second in command and head of security), a few people hired from respectable outside institutions (head of engineering and the doctor) and a collection of people of more questionable competence or dubious honesty (tactical and everyone else).
>>
>>62961311
Post Dominion War it's kind of hijacked, kind of commandeered, by a one of the former captains now a retired admiral whose probably in his final few years. He calls in favours and has the ship repaired rather than left to drift, comes out of retirement, sets up his office on the ship and sets sail for the horizon. His reasoning being that the Connies were never meant to die in their sleep and he was always meant to die in space.
>>
Original Connie shouldn't be considered sacrosanct when it's a glorified mishmash of spraypainted cardboard tubes. Refit is far superior and should be used as the standard.
>>
>>62961426

Is that so?
>>
>>62961170
Funny thing
When they added Club47 to ESD, the devs said they purposely didn't add a bathroom interior because they knew it would become a disgusting erp zone and didn't want that, especially on ESD.
>>
>>62958317
Calm down mate, the STD Connie is at least a reasonable approximation of the OG design. There are plenty of reasons to shit on Discovery but this ain’t one of them.
>>
>>62961472
I remember running into an erp group on the old DS9 when I was trying to figure out how the latinum exchange worked with seasonal rewards. What I learned was that if you don’t give them a toilet, they’ll make their own.
>>
>>62962760
Like for one how they specifically stated: No you they won't meet the Enterprise and you won't see Spock show up.
>>
>>62962780
If you believed that for even a second then you’re a bonafide mook
>>
>>62962760
I'm just giggling at the idea of anybody being so stuck up their own butt about TOS that they wish TMP was non-canon for messing with the nacelles

>>62962780
when this person said "show up" did they mean "appear" or did they mean "become a main cast character"
>>
>>62963328
There are plenty or raisins to dislike the Star Trek the Motionless picture. That isn't one of them.
>>
>>62963328
>I'm just giggling at the idea of anybody being so stuck up their own butt about TOS that they wish TMP was non-canon for messing with the nacelles
I'm sure there's something in one of the old fanzines from back then about it. There's definitely stuff about the Klingon changes at least.
>>
>>62956341
I'm planning on ripping off the broad strokes of Macross Delta for a plotline. I know none of them will get it.
>>
>>62958235
Can't really point my finger on, but something is definitely wrong. Somehow it looks clumsy and heavy and not so elegant as the original Connie and Sexelsior.
>>
>>
>>62965045
It's the nacelle struts. They're too thick. Get rid of the back portion and they look better.
>>
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>>62965045
It doesn't have the Phase II/TMP nacelles
>>
>>62965050
If the XCV-330 is still canon, First Contact created an alternate timeline. We have seen no mention of it in lists of Enterprises since 1996.
>>
>>62961170
>>62961179
>he needs instructions to use the three seashells
>>
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>>62965045
It's because they fucked with the proportions; the neck is shorter, the nacelles thicker at the front and the pylons are too wide with the potato peeler slice added in. There's also the big notch in the front saucer to go with the fattening of the upper bulge.

It's subtle, but combined there's enough small distortions going on (because of that 25% different for legal reasons) to mess with the original form in a noticeable way. Partly because the original is so heavily based on the golden ratio that messing with that without simply adjusting to use different sized bits still derived via the ratio is going to inevitably lead to it looking clunkier.
>>
>>62965101
It's present as pictures in the earth offices of Starfleet during Enterprise's run. It's also present as a model in Into Derpness, so it's still canon unless for some reason they only built it (from the drawings that existed a century earlier) after the Nerada arrived.

However since it pre-dates the NX program it's probably an Earth Starfleet or even nation-state Enterprise, not a Federation vessel by any stretch, and therefore doesn't form part of the "five vessels" the Enterprise D computer was about to reel off to Scotty outside the holodeck. Nor, for that matter, does the NX-01 appear to count - it's not the USS Enterprise, just the NX-01 Enterprise, which I believe was mentioned at the time as being deliberate.

Leaving either of them out is no worse than leaving out the OV-101 or CVN-65 or any of the others in the same "lineage".
>>
>>62965361
>25% different for legal reasons
Yeah, by the way, can anyone explain why this is a thing? I understand that CBS has rights for the TV show, but not full rights? Paramount Studios movies ships must look different, but CBS TV show can't use the old ship design?
>>
>>62965861
I think it's because Viacom owns Paramount and used to own CBS but split CBS out back into it's own company in 2005. So CBS is licencing the rights to produce new star trek brand things Star Trek from Paramount under Viacom, whilst retaining the rights to rebroadcast and licence merchandise for Old Star Trek, and for funsies also fighting both for and against being re-acquired by Viacom, which would put the licencing back together.
>>
>>62961311
>>62961330
That might have been a good series if written right. Sort of a view from the gallery type series showing the struggles of the everyman on a non-hero ship. Their little triumphs and everyday tragedies and showing the effects of the big shit on the little people and their trials to adapt to the changing world.

Instead we got STD.
>>
>>62966316
>Sort of a view from the gallery type series showing the struggles of the everyman on a non-hero ship.

Isn't that what the new cartoon is supposed to be about?
>>
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>>62962817
Certainly didn't believe it. Especially when at first they couldn't even agree on if it was prime timeline or it's own thing.

>>62963328
They said appear.
>>
>>62966509
There's a new cartoon?

Does it have captain Robert April in it?
>>
>>62967227
CBS All Access has set phasers to funny with the announcement today that they’ve given a two-season commitment to Star Trek: Lower Decks, an animated comedy from Emmy Award-winner Mike McMahan. The show, which will be produced by CBS Eye Animation Productions, Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment, will follow the support crew serving on one of Starfleet’s least-important ships. CBS Eye Animation Productions is CBS Television Studios’ new animation arm.
>>
Reminder that we’ll never see an ounce of the prosperity that Earth enjoys in Star Trek
>>
>>62968472
Probably not.
But we can at least try to act decent.
Sometimes even if a goal is doomed to fail it’s worth shooting for just in the attempt.
>>
>>62968472
I'd argue most first world countries see the majority of prosperity depicted in star trek. What we're chiefly missing is the piece of mind that comes with knowing you'll always have a roof over your head and food to eat even if you're not working due to post scarcity.

But yes, we're all going to be dead by the middle of this century when the environment goes full mad max.
>>
>>62966828
>They said appear.

Now that you've bothered to provide a quote we can check the context. That's referring to season 1, because it was said during NYCC 2017. They would have had no idea what was going to happen in a putative season 2 at that time, especially going out on a brand new, untested platform.

This year they've gone with Spock. It's not a contradiction, since that panel was to discuss the show they'd already made and the places they at that time could predict it going. It's not Akiva Goldsman's fault you all bitched about Spock not appearing when his half-sister does.

Frankly you should count yourself lucky it's not the Michael and Sybok Laugh-in Comedy Hour this time around, you maroon.
>>
>>62969251
>the Michael and Sybok Laugh-in Comedy Hour
I honestly think I would prefer that.
>>
>>62965861
CBS probably could, but why would they? It was made for NTSC screens in the early 1960s. It was so bad it had to be completely re-done for the late 1970s (and then for movie screens too).

And honestly, all people have done about any new Trek show ever is bitch about the ship. They bitched about the Galaxy, DS9 and its runabouts, the Defiant when that came along; about the Intrepid, the NX, and finally the Crossfield. Who gives a shit any more? If you're going to catch hell from the "fans" because you made a ship and it didn't look like something they knocked out in a pirated copy of Maya 2004 over the weekend, you might as well make something that fits your design sensibilities while meeting the show brief.

If they really can't it's likely because they've licensed the original to Paramount for x years or y movies, but since it's such a recognisable design that even in this form we all would know what it is without being told, it's really very much not about legal distinction. There's no question of this being distinguished from the Paramount version by a casual eye, and that's the test any court would apply - so not a legal thing.
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>>62969300
Michael Burnham has the same actress, but Sybok is inexplicably played by 83 year old Laurence Luckinbill.
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>>62968472
Well, no. Star Trek is post-apocalyptic. We need to nuke ourselves back into the dark ages first.
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>>62969251
First off I never bitched about Spock not being in it.I disliked the fact that it was set so close to TOS anyway.
Second, at that point Netflix had paid CBS the entire cost of season one's production. Season two was confirmed.
Thirdly, She specifically stated he wouldn't appear on the show. Not "He won't be in season one." That's a contradiction.
Fourth, you've taken a completely hostile response to my original post and the only reason I can see why is that you're far too used to arguing with people on here.
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>>62970148
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sdy-sentinel.php
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NEW THREAD:

>>62970192
>>62970192
>>62970192
>>62970192
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>>62967227
I just saw that episode. Kinda odd having 70's kids sci-fi show talking about people going to oblivion when they die.
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>>62969037
Only the developing world, the first world will be totalitarian dystopias.





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