[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/tg/ - Traditional Games



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




File: eva.jpg (51 KB, 640x893)
51 KB
51 KB JPG
>the duke of the realm is a valliant kindly paladin
>his wife is an evil enchantress
>despite this the two are devoted to eachother

Could it work to make interesting npc quests?
>>
>>62924751
>when the bbeg is qt af
>>
File: 1493582077657.jpg (114 KB, 1280x720)
114 KB
114 KB JPG
>>62924751
>Could it work to make interesting npc quests?
To dip in the kiddy pool equivalent of the depths that are my magical realm, it could work... as long as you define evil as morally unscrupulous, rather than literally being opposed to everything that's good. The wife could back her husband up from the shadows, preferably without his own knowledge. For a more intrigue/stealth based game (not D&D I imagine), the PCs could operate as agents for the duchess. Y'know, making sure that certain "loyal" vassals make a tumble down the stairs, foreign would-be rivals wake up with a dagger lodged in their pillows, "convincing" the maids to rat out the traitor among them et cetera.

Effectively the paladin is the kind, noble and perhaps too trusting ruler, while the enchantress takes care of everything that cannot endure the light of day (or the gaze of her husband). How this marriage persists despite the paladin being literally able to detect evil is a different question altogether. Maybe he fell for the Lawful Good Dickings meme.
>>
>>62927072
>detect evil i
5e it only let's you detect celestials,undead,or fiends(fey and abberrations get tossed on there if it's Detect Good and Evil instead of Divine Sense) so if she's Lawful Evil and just hides her shady shit he'd be none the wiser
>>
>>62927094
Use the Glyph of Warding for alignment detection, dummy.
>>
>>62927072
>How this marriage persists despite the paladin being literally able to detect evil is a different question altogether. Maybe he fell for the Lawful Good Dickings meme.
He knows
He knows that his wife is evil.
He suspects that she is behind all the good stuff that happened to him (why would the normally quiet chambermaid suddenly confess? why would the corrupt official suddenly move into the countryside?)

But he loves her. He wants to see her happy, just as she makes him. And he wants to turn her toward the right path.
But he knows that forcing her won't help. He knows that it would simply cause her to leave. He knows that he has enemies against which he needs every help he can.

So he lets her work in the shadows, until his major enemies are gone. Then he can try to change her
>>
File: BA_Silverbolt_Agenda3.jpg (81 KB, 632x480)
81 KB
81 KB JPG
>>62924751
He loves her because she's dangerous. She loves him because he's valiant. They're both the other's magical realm.
Plus, think of it this way: just because she's evil doesn't mean she's interested in helping the greater evil of the setting. She may use vile power to accomplish her ends, or may have a little too much fun toying with her foes, but when the chips are down, she doesn't want to get her existence ended by the return of the Dark Lord Butterbean from his celestial prison. If she and the duke were adventurers before becoming royals, they could have gone through hell together quite literally and forged a bond that way.
Their love is about the value they have for each other, the experiences they share, and the better world they want to build. Even if their methods and their lives before meeting one another are divergent, their goals are the same. And honestly, what else do you need?
>>
>>62924751
Probably not.
Do you have some examples of what evil the woman does?
>>
>>62924751
Something similar happened in Suikoden.

You had a nice king, and an evil enchantress who took advantage of looking like the king's dead wife to worm her way into a position of power, and using magic to control him.

The king turned out to be immune to her magic, actually loved her anyway and not just because she looked like his wife. In the end losing a civil war she caused because of it.
>>
I hate to give such a half-assed answer, but it depends.

Good and Evil can most certainly co-exist, saying otherwise is stupid, specially since these are humans, not outsiders.

That being said, if they truly are devoted to one another, then it should be understood that, eventually, the alignment of one will swing to the other. I think it's impossible for them to hold completely opposite alignments forever, if they legitimately love one another, since it's natural for one to seek conciliation with the ideals of the other.

If it's the start of their relationship - sure ,it works, but if some few good years passed, I'd imagine the Paladin would end up swinging towards neutral (And falling, or at least having his powers altered.), or the enchantress drifting towards neutral, or both of them ending in that "neutral" alignment.

The exception being is if one or the other does something extraordinary that convinces the other to truly side with them.

Alignment and morality is fucky.
>>
>>62927411
>Glyph of Warding
And who would be casting it? Not the Paladin. It would have to be the best spellcaster he knows... his wife
>>
>>62928399
Windy was such a bitch. So much of Suikoden 1's plot could have been avoided by her not being stuck on vengeance against the Harmonians. But then again, that was always the point of that series: eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.
>>
>>62924751
So do you mean quests about interesting npcs or interesting quests related to npcs? How do you plan to make these quests centering on the npcs meaningfully engaging to the pcs?
>>
>>62924751
Dofus did it
>>
>>62928408
That's really kind of the issue with D&D mechanics 'verses and why they end up with weird questions like this: they reduce complex moral systems and social dynamics into Red Vs. Blue (or Black Vs. White but that may be a bit on the nose). It's all a matter of collecting the most points so that your side wins. There's no room for feelings or 'working towards a greater good' any more than there would be in a game of football (American or otherwise): you're on your team, which means you aren't on the other team, which in turn means you and your team must be universally opposed to the other team.
The question works a lot better and inspires a lot more interesting ideas when not seen in the framework of D&D's limitations, since the D&D answer is always "If she's evil, Smite and Cleave".
>>
>>62928536
Yeah, Barbarossa could have short circuited it earlier as well.

Love blinds as easily as vengeance in those games.
>>
>>62928653
Very true. It's hard to tell whether he was more at fault for wrecking everything out of grief, or she was for taking advantage of his grief to obtain what she wanted, but they were both oddly believable villains for a JRPG for that exact reason. What made them villains were the flaws of thought and emotion that we are all vulnerable to unless we really take a hard look at ourselves and our behavior. It wasn't just "I'm evil because fuck you", they gave context for why they were evil while also never excusing them for the wrongs they did.
Very compelling stuff. I maintain those stories would have been way better received if the games themselves weren't buggy messes and translated better. They got overshadowed by many other products that were better as games but not as interesting in terms of plot and character development.
>>
>>62928740
Only ever played the first two, but they're still my favourite PSX era rpgs, flaws and all.

Getting the special ending of two felt really damn good.
>>
>>62927526
Cute
>>
File: pigkiller.jpg (45 KB, 537x469)
45 KB
45 KB JPG
>>62928783
Agreed. Everyone loves Luca Blight, but I found Jowy to be very compelling on his own as well, and reuniting with him and Nanami after everything you three went through was exceptionally well done.
I've played Suikoden 3 several times over the years and I think it holds up about as well as the PSX era games. With that said, it tells a different sort of story than 1 and 2 were and used a different sort of storytelling methodology, so it got a lot of blowback from the community. I found it compelling, but I can understand why others did not. S3's music is god tier as well. I never played IV or V, nor any of the Gaiden games.
>>
>>62928882
Luca Blight was an amazing villain, but he couldn't carry the game.

Jowy taking over was a perfect thematic idea. Kind of reminds me of FFT in some ways.

Luca still had the best fight in the game, because there's nothing like making you go through one mass battle, three regular fights, and one duel, with attacks in between to emphasise just how fucking crazy and dangerous he was.
>>
>>62928882
3 didn't get released in my region for fucking years.

Which is kind of why I stopped following the series.
>>
>>62929007
Nailed it on all fronts. Luca may be a tornado threatening to tear up your life and destroy everything you know, but Jowy's the compromises you're willing to make to see your goals accomplished and the real human costs of those compromises. Having both kinds of threats represented in the plot really made the conflict rich and satisfying to see come to a conclusion.
>>62929038
Ahh, makes sense then. If you can get a copy somehow it's worth playing. I'd recommend a let's play of it but I haven't found a good one and don't want to presume you're into that.
>>
>>62929345
Let's Plays are, as you say, hit and miss.

I guess sometime I'll pick it up. I am a fan of ducks.
>>
>>62928882
Anon, play V, it's basically a call back to the psx era.
The cast is middling, but the visuals and art direction is fantastic.
also there are a LOT of titty monsters in the game, goddamn
>>
>>62929429
Haha, I've heard positive things about V including the sights, as it were. I don't have a system that can play it at the moment but I'll find a way.
>>62929400
The ducks are great. I believe there's three controllable duck characters, all pretty usable though not strictly speaking the strongest. They're more generalists for the most part rather than specialists like most of the cast.
Damn it, all this is making me want to play a Suikoden 'verse game about stomping Harmonia's stupid smug faces in.
>>
>>62928646

Pretty much. I should note, I don't remotely mind D&D's alignment system, but I think it also should be taken at a looser value then the one that was intended in second edition, if you're doing something a little bit more serious.

A good person can love a bad person and vice versa, but there's no doubt about it that one would rub off on the other at some point.
>>
>>62924751
Are you implying Jaun Perron was a paladin?
he was.
>>
>>62930615
Oh for sure. The concept of D&D alignment is fine provided it isn't used in the way it typically is, either as a flag to fly so you know who is and is not on your side, or as a way of punishing Paladins who really don't need the added grief. It should be a general guideline, not a strict railroad.
The main issue I had with the original question was that it seemed to be predicated on the idea that either the Paladin would no longer be a Paladin - as in losing his powers and standing with the church/god he worships - as a result of his relationship with the enchantress, or that the same would happen to the enchantress (she would lose her powers because she wasn't doing enough evil or because the evil forces that power her don't approve of her dating Batman). That may or may not be intended but it always seems that, whenever questions of alignment come up, it's treated as too literal for my tastes.





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.