What kind of people are Belgians and Netherlanders in terms of political beliefs, religion and general way of thought? Is it worth living there?
>>1331872Progressive, open minded and mostly non religious. I love living here, but it depends on what kind of person you are.
>>1331872Chill people, but the weather might wear you down a little.I enjoy living here, but miss the sun now and then.
>>1331872From Belgium but living in Australia now. I miss it, actually. Will definitely move back after this.
>>1331872>We can't think of flags so we will just turn France and Germany's flags sideways
>>1332030>being this badly versed in vexillology
>>1332030The Belgian and Dutch flags are actually both older than the German and French flags"
>>1331872>political beliefsDutch people are very progressive and liberal. Islam critical far right people like Geert Wilders are popular too though, but that's only because they feel muslim immigrants are a threat to Dutch progressive values. Feminism is very strong in the Netherlands.Flemish people are considerably more conservative and right wing. Immigrants from muslim and african countries aren't really lovedFrancophone Belgians are liberal, progressive and socialist. >religionThe Low countries aren't very religious any longer. But protestantism and catholicism have left their marks in Dutch and Belgian culture and mentality.>general way of thoughtDutch people are extremely open, direct and honest in their communication and can therefore come across as rude if you're not used to that. Dutch people appreciate a down to earth, business mentalityBelgians are a lot more reserved and closed. Belgium has had a language problem ever since. Most Flemish are able to speak French and English very well but if you start off in French it's best to say you're not from Wallonia or Brussels because they expect Francophone Belgians to speak Dutch when in Flanders. Francophone Belgians absolutely suck at English for the most part.>worth livingMeh. You'll make good bank in Belgium and the Netherlands but the weather really sucks and the people are somewhat individualistic.Brussels is getting pretty dangerous
>>1332150>Feminism is very strong in the Netherlands.I don't want to appear as though I'm stirring up trouble, but is it the type of feminism that puts a person's sex before their merit? I find that sort of progressivism to be, well, regressive.
>>1332169No, it's the treat people fairly and dont be a dick to each other variant. Unles you have a problem with people making an effort to accommodate pregnancy related issues for the female workforce and the like. Also, we don't use that twisted and retarded nu definition of liberalism Americans use (and seemingly want to export). In the netherlands being a liberal is to adhere to free market principles.
>>1332169Yes that happens.>>1332185I don't really understand what you mean. Both Belgium and the Netherlands have gender quotas for government jobs and companies are pushed to respect 'gender diversity' as wellThat's not fair and frankly, women don't really feel at ease knowing they got the job thanks to the gender quotas and not their qualities
Born and raised in the Netherlands (western part, which I assume you're interested moving to as it's the most popular place to live for expats).I have been living in The Hague for the past year.You can ask me anything you want senpai.
>>1332189>soyboy sjw dutchfag btfo
>>1332189>>1332150There is no gender quota for government jobs. There's a gender target without a penalty. The government recommends that publicly listed companies try to reach the gender target as well, with the vague threat of making it a lawful gender quota in the future. Besides that, I think you're fundamentally misrepresenting Dutch values. There's a fundamentalist Christian reform party in the parliament and they don't believe in passive suffrage for women, so their party is devoid of women. The reason they're in the parliament is because there is a relatively large Bible Belt in the Netherlands, outside of the larger cities. Dutch values have always been about tolerance, but don't underestimate the Dutch fondness of adhering to the norm: "doe maar normaal". And that means that both being a Muslim woman and dressing up as a penguin or a homosexual dressing up in fetish gear are frowned upon. I'd like to stress that Amsterdam with it's half a million inhabitants is in no way representative of the other 16,5 million.
>>1332215Well the SGP is a rather small party isn't it? And the bible belt is not exactly where an expat would settle. Randstad would be more likely
>>1332194I wanted to visit Amsterdam but I heard some stories that kinda ruined it for me. It was mostly about the tourists and how they behave like a bunch of degenerate buffoons. They see Netherlands as a place to get fucked up and fuck things up.The open drug culture also kind of has me worried. I knew it existed but I thought it was exaggerated.I just wanted to travel to a comfy nice place with friendly people and enjoy the canals and narrow streets.How is crime there in general?
>>1333001Amsterdam is full of british behaving like degenrates.They piss on the houses, i even saw them take a piss on our liberation monument.If you don't like drugs and noisy british chavs, visit amsterdam in the morning, when all the international hedonists are sleeping of their hangover/drug enduced coma.It suck sometimes, living in amsterdam.
>>1333038Just how liberal are people in Amsterdam? I don't have a problem with liberalism but too much of it is sometimes retarded.
>>1332150>Brussels is getting pretty dangerousYou're spot on with most of what you said but this is just blatantly untrue. It's as safe as any European city really.t. brusselian
>>1332150Also, just curious: what do you mean with individualistic and how is it bad?
>>1331872Degenerate shithole full of touristsI'd rather die than life there
>>1333049As liberal as it gets, not everyone here but many people.All the streets are full of gay pride flags, everyone identifies as some sort of special snowflake gender and sexual prefrence.The rest of holland sees amsterdam as a pretty retarted and arrogant city, i moved here and i still think most people here have an iq bellow room temprature.
>>1333001Amsterdam is very much unlike the rest of the country. It definitely has it's pro's but also it's cons.One of the cons is the tourism obviously. Though I wouldn't say it's that bad. The center is quieter than you think, the only places you might see people acting loudly is the red light district, but there's loads of police there nowadays so you don't really see anything you wouldn't in similar cities.Open drug culture is massively overrated imo. I mean yeah we've got coffeeshops but that's it. It's not common to see Dutch people smoking herb in public like a cigarette.Amsterdam can still be very comfy, you just need money and some luck/persistance.Crime is not that bad if you're not an idiot.But yes, like the other anon mentioned, the British chavs are the worst out of all of them. Complete degenerates. Spaniards/Italians who all wear Amsterdam tourist hoodies and smoke weed on Damrak are kind of annoying too because most times communication isn't easy.But on other hand if you like culture and shit Amsterdam is one of the best cities in Europe for certain. Just about every music artist will come here if they do a European tour. There are a good bunch of great museums, food is good eventhough you can pretty much forget about anything local.If you know your way around the city and can deal with an annoying tourist every once so often I truly think it's an amazing city to live in. I'm having the time of my life, but I do make an effort to keep up with everything happening around the city.
>>1333227I meant to say tourists who are a nuisance in the second paragraph. There's definitely way too many tourists in the city at all times.
>>1333153Gotta live in zuid with all the other uni graduates.
>>1333127Keeping to ourselves, only being interested in ourselves.It's a curse and a blessing imho. Individualism allowed to get to a high point of material wealth but there's not much community left and more people feel lonely
>>1331872Everything outside of Brussels is nice. Brussels is one of the tension filled cities I've ever been too. Everyone seems on edge, like something is about to pop off. Weird place, wouldn't want to live there.
>>1333385For real? As someone who lives there, it's super weird to hear that people have these kinds of impressions. Where in Brussels did you go?
>>1333125T. lives in Ukkel/Uccle
>>1333478Nope, Anderlecht, other parts of the city are equally safe though
>>1331872Is Rotterdam a good place to live?How is price of living (housing, grocery, tax) there?Also, I know it's the 2nd largest city in the Netherlands and so. Is it not so different from Amsterdam?
>>1333510It's completely different from Amsterdam. It got bombed to shit in WW2 so most of the city is (re)built in the last 70 years, with lots of high rises. It's also one of the biggest ports in the world so it has a large working class population and lots of immigrants. Quite a big business district too, so the variations in income are big. If you'd ask Dutch people what the shittiest city in the country is, most of them would undoubtedly say Rotterdam (and surroundings), but despite its flaws, it has some unique selling points too. The housing market is quite cheap, especially compared to other cities in the Randstad (the west part of the country), it has it's own unique vibe and architecture and the people are more down to earth compared to e.g. Amsterdam. And most importantly, it's a city that's constantly evolving. New buildings, new infrastructure, new hotels, new restaurants, new everything. While cities like Amsterdam try their hardest NOT to change.
>>1333228I read an article a while back (in the Groene Amsterdammer) that the city was thinking of introducing a quota for tourists let in. Will anything come of that?
>>1332194What about to live in haarlem?I've visited in the last summer and looks like a quiet version of amsterdam , with no too much tourist and british chavs
>>1333518>New buildings>New infrastructure>New hotels>New restaurants>new everythingSounds awful - no character and shitty modern arc. everywhere>While cities like Amsterdam try their hardest NOT to change.Now we just can't have that goyim! We must change!
>>1333518>lots of immigrantsI suppose people won't give a damn about my background as Korean American then.>the shittiest cityIs it like in Detroit way (beyond salvage) or in Chicago way (lots of crime but city is functioning well)? I suppose no Western Europe city is American tier in terms of safety but I guess I should not expect Japan, Korea, Taiwan, HK tier safety.>The housing market is quite cheapWhat is price per meter like there? What about if I rent a studio or 1-bedroom condo?Also, is it possible to get a job there if I only speak English? (Looking for pharmaceutical/biomedical research stuff)
>>1333542Like you suggested, there's probably nothing in the Netherlands (or all of Western Europe) really comparable to Detroit or Chicago. Rotterdam is just an ugly city which is more famous for its huge port than for nice historic buildings, but it's not like you would get mugged there.
>>1333542And no, I can tell with pretty much certainty that nobody will care about your ethnicity. There's definitely increasing racism towards muslims/North Africans but as a Korean you're totally fine
>>1333542There is no racism towards asians in the netherlands. Like >>1333573 said, its mostly directed towards moroccans. Turks get some heat as well, but its marginal compared to moroccans. That being said, you'll be hard pressed to find open racism here. There is bigotry, but its mostly kept private.
>>1333524They are trying to make amsterdam "bigger" now, calling things in the randstad something "amsterdam"Keukenhof is being rebramded as amsterdam gardens.Tourism quota would never get through the city council.
>>1333534I didn't say Amsterdam should change, but it's just a fact that Rotterdam is totally different from 10-20 years ago and will be totally different 10-20 years in the future. It's cool to see a city transforming this way. Of course Amsterdam has its big projects going on as well, but I feel it's all half assed and doesn't add much to the city besides extra housing/offices. I'm talking about the Zuidas, Zeeburgereiland, IJburg, Houthavens, Amstelkwartier, etc. Yeah okay, they added a shit ton of living and office space, but that's it. There's no added value in terms of entertainment, restaurants, bars, shops, etc. It's a shame because of course every tourist is going to flock to the city center when the surrounding areas don't offer anything comparable. Amsterdam could learn from cities like London how to make surrounding neighborhoods vibrant and not just have a city center where everything is clustered.>>1333542Rotterdam has quite a lot of Asians, mostly students at Erasmus Uni. No worries about that.I just checked and the average price per square meter is like 14 euros in Rotterdam. These are "free sector" rent prices, but I don't know if they also apply for expats. I'd google around for expat housing in Rotterdam, but it might not be as cheap.And yes in that sector there's a good chance you'll be fine with just English, but I don't know too much about it so I have no idea if Rotterdam has any jobs for it. If I were you, I'd email some universities here that offer biomedical/pharmaceutical-related Masters and ask about job opportunities.
>>1333542>Korean AmericaPeople won't care my man. Only muslims are hated in Belgium and the Netherlands. Ghee, I wonder why
>>1331872this belongs on /int/
>>1332189>I don't really understand what you mean. Both Belgium and the Netherlands have gender quotas for government jobs and companies are pushed to respect 'gender diversity' as wellNot exactly true, while Belgium has a quota the Netherlands law has a "goal" which is not a set quota.
>>1333153>All the streets are full of gay pride flags, everyone identifies as some sort of special snowflake gender and sexual prefrence.Please, don’t listen to this loser! Just because people are liberal here, it doesn’t mean that you can get away with everything you do! The only rule that counts in EVERY country that you visit is: act normal and you will be fine!
>>1333518Don’t go in Rotterdam if you like night life, the city can be quite quiet at night!
>>1333525Haarlem is awesome!
>>1331872Most people are pretty chill. The West is more Americanised, you'll also find the most people and things to do there. The south is a lot of big industry and old cities, take Maastricht and Nijmegen. Loved it. The north is basically isolationists except Groningen city. Don't even start about Friesland. In the middle of the Netherlands you have the largest (and only) national park, it's pretty alright if you're into it.And in the East you have farmers, who are sober and really down to earth. They also don't beat around the bush.
>>1333518I can confirm that war damage. My grandparents lost their house at the Nieuwe Haven (today Blaak) and they had to move to the Rotterdam-West (Oude Westen) afterwards. There are still some old looking buildings, but almost all are built in the 19th-century.
Lived in Amsterdam for 2 years. I can say that i miss the Dutch way of life. Amsterdam was probably much more different than the rest of the country. Even while going out was just interesting to meet other people and chat with them while you're high as fuck on drugs. All those tiny streets with stores and squares across canals. Miss that shit.
>>1335478Cool dude what did you do for work and where and how did you live?
>>1334466>The north is basically isolationists except Groningen cityHaha! Groninger here, born in the province, moved to the city. Isolationists... no. But I do get what you mean. Some people here live in a small world. I do love the countryside here though. Not to mention the Wadden. And I just love Groningen as a city. Wouldn't want to live anywhere else. :)
>>1331872Where are you from OP?I'm a Belgian that moved to California and I can't think of a single reason to ever move back.The weather is shit, people aren't all that nice -nor all that progressive-, and the job market and business climate are absolute dogshit. Anyway I'm probably pretty biased, it really depends where you're coming from.
>>1332215>there is no gender quota for government jobsI'm army NCO. 40% if the KMS(Royal military school for officers) has to be female.My stepmother works HR for the towns hall, she also has quotas for women.
>>1335654She is being given quota from her superiors, but there is no legal obligation to meet these quota.You interpreting this quota as a must hit target is quite simply wrong.Nice anecdotal evidence anyway.
I am Dutch, living in Poland now.Netherlands is quite of okay but a few things are quite fucked up.>labor market. Jobs are only found in the super fucked up expensive areas of the country(randstad). Employers have unreasonable expectations of employees, and pay shit wages while life is expensive. I have a masters, and my life in real terms in Poland is much better( Uber everywhere, eat out whenever I want, on a starters salary) than it would be in the Netherlands.>housing market, shit foreign investors buying up everything in Amsterdam, renting out on AirBnb to shit tourists so the original residents can't live in their own city anymore and housing prices skyrocket. Brb an apartment that is not total shit is at least 1-1.2k, while net wages are like 2k maximum.>people are quite good, will be super direct with you
>>1335615>Er gaat niets boven groningen!Thats because there's literally nothing north of groningen. City is alright though, enjoyed living there as a student.
>>1336401I'd disagree based on the Wadden islands alone.
>>1336404Literally nothing there. The best part is that dumb pub on schiermonnikoog. Forgot the name.
>>1333385I'm feeling like the "on edge" feeling you got is just the typical french disinterested+Dutch punctuality of hurrying to your work. These two combined cultures that form the Brussels mindset makes it look like this. Yes I hate brussels as well. But It'll be the Capital of the European Federation in 2 decades so I might as well get used to it.
>>1333636This is only half true. Just ask your Dutch-born Chinese friends if you have any. If you have a Chinese name, there is no way you get a job offer before someone with a Western European name is offered that job. I don't even speak Dutch, and I regularly get better offers compared to my native Dutch friends who have slightly better qualifications (combined with Asian names). Asians do get treated much better than eg. Moroccans, obviously.Off topic: you go to AH XL around this time of the year, look at where the shortest line is. It somehow always happens to be the darkest skinned cashier that has the shortest line (by far). I found it entertaining to be honest, like the Dutch really try to address racism... And my friends would be like "oh, but we don't look at the skin color". Haha sure, you don't pick consciously, but somehow you always end up standing in the line where that blondie is, even if the line is fucking long compared to the other.>>1334455+1>>1335615I kind of want to move there, I wish there was a hyperloop to Schiphol, though.
>>1333125Bruxelles is getting dangerous Whithin the Last four month 2 friends got attacked(near Midi/zuid)
>>1333458>For real? As someone who lives there, it's super weird to hear that people have these kinds of impressions. Not the guy you are replying to, but are you trolling? I totally agree with that guy about Brussels being shit/tense. "Refugees"(economic immigrants) everywhere, natives running around with their head down pretending everything is ok. Soldiers fucking everywhere. >Where in Brussels did you go?You must live in some sheltered white bubble.Brussels was without a doubt one of the most uncomfortable cities I've been in, which is kinda nuts considering I've traveled extensively in the balkans lol. Not trying to be a dick, but culturally/politically Belgians seem to really fall into that whole "ostrich head in the sand" dynamic.
>>1337280Brussels has always been shit. It hasn't changed in the last few years. You'd know this if you had actually been there. But since you're only using meme words from /pol/ it's more than obvious you're lying.
>>1337225Because the nigger always cards me like I'm some shifty 16 year old trying to buy a bottle of vodka. When I'm buying a single bottle of wine with an entire bag of groceries, while I'm 25 with a big ass beard, wearing a nice dress shirt, on a Sunday morning, I really don't need to be checked, none of the white employees do it, but the nigger always asks for it, after plenty of times.
>>1337225>Asian namesWell this is bullshit. Plenty folks with funny last names getting hired if their resumes are good and they know how to communicate. Hell, I had multiple expat colleagues who lived here at least two decades but still couldn't properly communicate in Dutch nor English yet they had plenty of work.>Subconscious racismHaha, no. The reason why all the men will flock to the pretty blonde girl should be pretty obvious. A few years back my local AH had a very pretty Afghan girl (modern, no headscarf bullshit) girl and it was the same thing; guys lined up and willing waited in line for a long time while the till next to hers was practically empty. We like to drool over pretty girls, so shoot us.Minor exception is attitude, as >>1338812 mentioned. If there's two choices and one is quiet but with some Shaniqua ghetto bitch bound to give me shit, then I'm probably gonna stand in the next line. But that isn't down to skin color but behaviour.The Dutch can easily be racist, but usually it's a response to something.
>>1337280It has gotten way better since the riots in the mid-2000s. I honestly felt more unsafe living in Paris.A lot of the problem kids are slowly moving out because housing is cheaper on the "social train line" from there to Gent.
>>1337225The biggest minority group in the netherlands are (part) asian though. Indos have it fairly well I think. Ive never really experienced racism or felt excluded being one myself. That being said, I can only speak for myself. I always get the feeling indos are more or less accepted as fully dutch compared to all the other minorities.
>>1336405Terschelling is pretty okay. I go to school there. Except for in the winter, when it turns into a desolate shithole.
>>1337225>I kind of want to move there, I wish there was a hyperloop to Schiphol, though.I have to be in Amsterdam or The Hague for work regularly. We just need to stop pretending that 2 hours is a long way to drive. It's not. So Groningen-Schiphol is no problem at all.
>>1336405>>1339138The islands are great. Great place to cycle and enjoy the sea. Go wadlopen, get on the water, do beach-sports. It's just incredibly relaxing.
>>1339225eh, depends. I wouldnt recommend it as a daily commute.
>>1339860Nah, me neither. Once or twice a week is more than enough. But when you want to travel somewhere a 2 hour car trip to the airport can't be a big deal.
>>1340193Indeed, its fine then
>>1331872Not my preffered Islamic caliphates tbqh, I'd go with France
>>1342895t. never been to the lowlands
>>1342895implying France is any better than the low countries
>>1343080don't feed the underage /pol/ lurking troll