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Dead Weyouns edition
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>>100959724
Episodes 1-3 of STD were irredeemable. You are genuinely a retard. If anyone has anything nice to say about the show, it is definitely after this point.
>>
So now that Star Wars has been succesfully boycotted, anyone planning to do the same with season 2 of STD?
>>
the defiant class WAS experimental
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>>100959783
I don't think anyone has said that those were good episodes
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>>100959824
Except the guy I'm replying to you fucking blind mong.
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>>100959748
He could have just faked his death. It's not like the other Weyoun watching would know since it was just visual. Odo should have suggested this, but I guess it was happening really fast and they could always scan for life on the ship. Seeing as how the other Weyoun didn't do this after anyway suggests maybe he could have gotten away with it.
>>
STD's best episodes were the first two. They were obviously the only episodes that were extensively written and planned. The rest is even worse and anyone who defends it is a moron.
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>>100959831
He said they weren't bad. There are points on the spectrum of quality between "horrific" and "perfect." You might want to check your reading comprehension.
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>>100959811
I think I'm in too deep to not watch any Trek, no matter how shit it may turn out.
But the latter two thirds of STD were almost good, so I've got some hope for the next season.
>>
>>100959811

Should be even easier. Wouldn't shed a tear, either.
>>
>>100959783
>>100959824
>>100959868
Yeah, 1-3 were alright episodes. They broke off from the initial hype assumptions and almost made it look like it would be an okay prodcuction despite all the bullshit. The characters that were awful were murdered and the non-character michael got some characterization and internal conflicts. The 3rd ep with the murderbug thing was actually pretty good, showing her strengths without resorting to mary sue stuff. It all went downhill from there.

>>100959813
yeah the entire mirror universe thing was brokenly bad. It ruined the season arc and brought back awful captain that existed EXPLICITLY to be killed off and set up badass captain man as ????? whatever, who even cares anymore. The finale was constructed well if you take it separately from anything else though.
>>
>>100959899
You might want to check yours you moron. The idiot said that the episodes 'weren't bad'. I said that they were in fact irredeemable. It makes perfect sense if you have more than 3 brain cells.
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>>100959811
>Kill the only prime Trek show still in circulation
You know the only message that'll give Kurtz is to chuck the prime timeline into the bin entirely and focus on the J-bramsverse from thereon out. I can deal with a mediocre show to get Star Trek back on its feet if it means we eventually get that based Post-TNG show starring Michael Dorn as Worf as captain.
>>
Were there any STD episodes that actually felt like trek? I can think of the one with Mudd and the time crystal and the one where Saru is on the alien planet and goes crazy. They at least felt isolated and had adventure and weren't like the others. I'm sure there were others but those two stood out
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>>100959922
Oh also neuretroKlangz were pretty aight.
>>
>>100959923
This isn't a very interesting discussion. Talking to someone who has already made up his mind and is committed to defending a boring position like this with such vitriol is not worth the effort. You're as bad as Star Wars fanboys who are still angry that women are in the sequel trilogy.
>>100959945
The only good episodes are the Mudd episodes, especially the one that's a ripoff of Cause & Effect.
>>
>>100959934
I think I actually prefer J-bramverse over STD... that's how bad things are right now.
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>>100959812

And poorly handled plot-wise, just like most of DS9. Love how they just kind of leave that cloak in there for the rest of the goddamned series, as if such things were normal or would ever be tolerated by the Romulan Star Empire, even to deploy against the Dominion.
>>
>>100959945
There's that one episode where Saru give's a speech about the crew and the ship being some kind of unity bla bla, which kind of captured the Star Trek feel. But they ruin it very quickly with all the shit that comes after that.
>>
>>100959990
I'm with you anon. JJ's Star Trek has very little to do with Star Trek yet the characters actually bond and work together.
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>>100960003
Well with klingons on the feddie side romulands didn't have much choice. Plus borg really weren't eliminated so defiant's original purpose could have totally come up. It didn't though.
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>>100959984

>You're as bad as Star Wars fanboys who are still angry that women are in the sequel trilogy.

What if they just don't like them because they're shit?
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>>100960003
Yeah that was weird, they went to the trouble of having a Romulan on board to make sure they were keeping to the treaty and then she just vanished and nobody gave a shit anymore. A literal throwaway line later on 'I won't tell the romulans if you won't ;)' like it would just be that simple
>>
>>100960072
>You're as bad as Star Wars fanboys who are still angry that women are in the sequel trilogy.

Okay guys, definite SJW alert. Do not respond to further bait posts.
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>>100960066

Klingon cloaking tech is only *derived* from Romulan, not identical to it. If anything it would have made more sense for the Klingons to have it on indefinite loan to the Feddies.
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>>100960072
>>100960092
I'm talking about the subset of fanboys who are actually still butthurt about the fact that Admiral Holdo is a woman. That's how dumb you sound when you try to have a serious conversation about Star Trek and just refuse to admit that STD is unquestionably terrible. It's just not interesting. You're not interesting. You're just butthurt.
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>>100959783
I like episode 3.

The friendly Klingon was a nice touch.
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>>100960066
>>100960105
No not because klingons would give feds cloak, because there's political reasons for romulans to NOT piss off the federation because they're in a tight spot. They're relying on at least neutrality with federation even through the dominion war. One cloaking device they can't replicate or whatever isn't a huge cost.
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>>100960121

What if they're upset Holdo is literally cribbed from space-tumblr?
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>>100960053
The Problem with JJ's Star Trek isn't that it isn't faithful to ToS, Into Darkness nonewithstanding. The problem is that if we accept the reboot as the "main" timeline that means TNG-era is relegated to AU-tier, to be replaced with whatever the Jbramsverse leads into.
>>
How the fuck is STD gonna explain why Klingons look so different 10 years before TOS? I know they don't have the rights to use the classic TNG look, but it's just gonna be so jarring if they don't at least try and give a reason for it.
>>
>>100960105
That would make zero sense and is really dumb. The Klingon/Federation treaty doesn't state that the Feds can't have cloaks, but the Romulan/Federation treaty does. If Feds want to use a cloak on even one single ship then they need explicit permission from the Roms, and otherwise the Feds are violating a treaty.
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>>100960152
t. fanboy
>>
>>100960192
They already explained it in Enterprise.

Only millions of Klingons were affected by the transformation virus, not the entire species.
>>
>>100959984
If they had managed to pull off being an edgier trek without being just pure flaming garbage then more of the eps would be good. The pure-trek style standalone eps worked okay but some of the early eps COULD have worked if it had followthrough. That shit was leaning towards space-horror for a while and I would watch the fuck out of a trek space horror.

>>100960152
If they can make space tumblr work internally to the film then it shouldn't be a problem. If they can't, their inability to back up their shit with filmmaker skills is the problem.
>>
>>100960132

Dude, that makes zero sense when at one point the Romulans were considering an alliance with the Dominion. Also, you forget that there's a Senate involved; no way they'd go along with that farcical proposition to just hand over a cloak.

Like I said, it makes more sense in light of the Khitomer Accords for Klingons to lend the cloak.
>>
>>100959945
For me it was mostly just the time loop episode, hopefully they'll start doing more "adventure of the week" type stuff next season now that they've settled into the characters a little, those adventures and shenanigans are what Trek is.

Looked like the finale was shifting things into the main lore at least, with Pike's Enterprise, them talking about Archer and ENT, the TOS theme over the credits, etc.
Also it was a nice surprise to finally see Andorians and have them look exactly the same, I was fearing another edgy revamp.
>>
>>100960223
I do hope that they introduce some "viral" Klingons in order to ensure everyone that they didn't just ignore the issue, though.
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>>100960192
Who even cares about costuming though? STD Klangs were clearly more expensive and time consuming for production than budget TNG style klings which were reasonable for their purpose. The STD purpose was more for the TWEEST and the end result made them shit more than anything.

>>100960227
Yes klingon cloak would have made more sense but then they'd never believe the tech person on board.
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>>100960227
If the Federation uses a Klingon cloak then the Federation is violating the Federation-Romulan treaty. That means the Romulans would declare war on the Federation. That's bad.
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>>100960192
There's like 80 different dialects of Klingons and billions of them spread through the cosmos, it's possible we've just seen a certain breed of them.
But I doubt that.

It's more likely that it won't be acknowledged, the augment virus plot was a mistake, ENT should have just left the TOS Klingon's being a real world budget thing instead of trying to explain it.
>>
>>100960003
Yeah, it would have been nice if they kept the qt tsundre Romulan on board for the rest of the series. She didn't have to be main cast, but any time they used the defiant for a big mission. By the time Sisko was using the cloak in the alpha quadrant, he was way past the point of caring what the Romulans would think. But it's hard to imagine they'd just let him fucking keep it with his word being that he's only gonna use it in the gamma quadrant. But by that point the Federation knew how to make cloaking devices of their own anyway, they just had that treaty that says they wouldn't use them for whatever fucking reason that never made sense to me.

>Y-you're just using me for my cloaking device Sisko-chan.... B-baka...
>>
>>100960195

No, the Treaty of Algernon states that the Federation can't *develop* their own cloak. Not that they couldn't *receive* it from another species. Weasel-words? You bet. But if DS9 was really about "pushing the envelope of Trek" like it claimed (instead of simply being Ronald D. Moore getting a hardon for Babylon 5 and not giving a shit about canon for his own show), it might've worked.
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>>100960312
It would have been nice if Voyager hadn't taken the actress and tricked her into thinking she would be a regular.
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>>100960202

The whole point of my post is that I'm *not* a fan anymore. Reading comprehension.
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>>100960339
RIKER: What do you know about the Treaty of Algeron?
TROI: 2311. It redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone.
RIKER: It also outlawed the use of cloaking technology on Starfleet vessels.

Also, Ira Steven Behr was showrunner, not RDM.
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>>100960350
she was a very recurring though. i never realized that was her.
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>>100960312

Even that would have been preferable.
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>>100960409
>anymore
Oh boy
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>>100960223
The explanation Enterprise gave only works for pre-STD Klingons. Now they have to explain away a third type of Klingon.
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>>100960223
Yes, but the STD Klingons look way different than either of them. That's what I want to be addressed. We haven't seen any that even look like what we're used to. I have no idea
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>>100960455
>>100960468
its not even necessarily same continuity and that should be obvious. Also they never HAD to explain shit. Why don't TNG phasers look like TOS phasers? Cause production isn't canon.
>>
>>100960455
>>100960468
We're just going back to the pre-DS9 explanation: They always looked like this, and the producers couldn't show it until now because of budget reasons.
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>>100960411

If it outlawed the use of cloaking tech period, whence Defiant's cloak? You don't just *put treaties on hold*, anon. They're a form of international contract. The situation depicted on the Defiant (particularly after the Romulan science officer disappears) should immediately annulled the treaty.
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>Enterprise reinforces, repairs and uplifts canon
>STD ignores, belittles and destroys canon
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>>100960528
That's not how treaties work, pseudo-intellectual. Any agreement between the parties is a treaty. If they agree to ignore something in a particular case, then that's part of the treaty.
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>>100960539

It was nice, but I could've lived with the "it wasn't in the budget" explanation too.
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>>100960528
There's the possibility of canon politics going on behind the scenes. You very much do change the way a treaty is interpreted and enforced though through leadership changes though. Again, wolf359 changed a lot of shit and was such a massive fucking event that it COULD believably account for fededration being cunts on small things like that.
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>>100960528
>You don't just *put treaties on hold*, anon.
Says who?

Maybe the treaty says "Y'all can't have any cloaks except for special exceptions which have to be explicitly approved by us."
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>>100959934
How is it Prime Timeline? None of the art direction or in universe tech is at all in-line with the Prime Timeline. Face it you were tricked into another reboot just because they told you it wasn't
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>>100960564

Uh, no pseud, that's not how that works. At that point the treaty must be re-negotiated or it falls into annulment.
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>>100960539
>Enterprise reinforces, repairs and uplifts canon
TOS: "Starfleet had never ever ever even once encountered any cloaking device until Balance of Terror, let alone a Romulan cloaking device."

Enterprise: "Oops."
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>>100960603
Wrong.
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>>100960603
It could certainly do that if romulus complained but it would be equally "in annulment" if they decided to just ignore it one day. Choosing to ignore breaches of treaty make it not annuled. That is apparently what happened cause nobody brings it up.
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>>100960603
Source?
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>>100960584

Then they should've showed some of that shit. Like I said, sloppy continuity. Other Anon is right: you can't patch that with a throwaway line.
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>>100960129
Shades of the Organian’s prediction in Errand of Mercy
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>>100960603
>my social construct is a physical truth
Not how it works, brainlet.
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>>100960658
The only sloppy person is you. You didn't know the treaty's name, you didn't know what the treaty did, and you don't understand how treaties work. Don't blame Star Trek for your own failings.
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>>100960658
I really couldn't care less, even if it was an international incident it wouldn't have been that big. Defiant just isn't that important and a big deal IS made of how non-transferrable that experimental cloaking system on the experimental ship is.
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>>100960622

That's why I treat ENT as a drop-in replacement for TOS. Captain Kirk is a dude from a vaguely-referenced 5-year mission who starred in about five really good Star Trek films. The Enterprise-A always looked classy. Romulans always had cloak.

Heresy, I know.
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>>100960290
>The STD purpose was more for the TWEEST and the end result made them shit more than anything.
Wrong. They were changed because CBS and Paramount have had a contentious relationship with holding the rights, so they changed them enough so they wouldn’t get sued.
https://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-enterprise-design-changes/
>>
>DS9-hater hates TOS too
It's getting surreal in here.
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>>100960432
Worst Case Scenario is one of my favorite Voyager episode. I love how Seska torments the crew from beyond the grave.
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>>100960774
This is a discovery only general now.
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>>100960703

>akchually

No, asshole; I knew about the Treaty of Algernon, and I knew its general terms. And yeah; treaties aren't so flexible they turn on a dime like that. It's literally why it takes so goddamned much time to get one hammered out and signed.
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>>100960774

>people aren't allowed to have this opinion
>only these other opinions
>because i say so!
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>>100960757
IIRC the only rights Paramount held to the movie designs was (((merchandising))) anyway. Thats more reasonable than a reason the change but the design-purpose like I was talking about was obfuscation. Probably after the fact.
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>>100960673

I don't even know where you're going with this, Anon. You just spiraled off into lunar orbit or some shit.
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>>100960810
Did someone say ORVILLE?
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>>100960832
>I knew about the Treaty of Algernon
Algeron, not Algernon.

>and I knew its general terms
I told you its general terms, and you insisted that I was wrong until I quoted dialog.

>And yeah; treaties aren't so flexible they turn on a dime like that.
How do you know that the treaty doesn't have clauses for special exceptions?
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>>100960901
New season when
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>>100960982
Hopefully never. I can't stand the Fox shills.
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>>100960901

I tried watching that. Am I just not "getting it"? I couldn't make it through an episode.
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>>100961020
Well if they edited out the seth jokes it would probly be on par with TNG.
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>>100960930

>How do you know that the treaty doesn't have clauses for special exceptions?

Like I said, maybe it does. But that needed to be addressed with more than a throwaway line. Shit, a single scene in the Romulan Senate could've done it.
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>>100961092
>Shit, a single scene in the Romulan Senate could've done it.
That sounds expensive. They're on a budget, you know.
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>>100961127

Even a roundtable conference could've done it justice, Anon.
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>>100961235
Vreenak's all around DS9's tables. DIPLOMACY'D.
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>>100961235
It would also be really awkward and out of place. It would throw the plot's pacing all out of whack.
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>>100961273

What, all the remaining seasons? Every single one, Anon?
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>>100961292
No, that one specific episode where the cloak is introduced.

If your scene showed up in later episodes then it would be a flashback, which would make it even weirder.
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>>100961056
well who's gonna be a bro and start making fan edits to remove the dick & fart jokes?
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>>100961383
>all that's left is ten-minute mini-episodes
Bravo, Seth.
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>>100961329

>flashbacks are somehow intrinsically weird

Okay, Anon. Whatever you say.
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>>100961401
The executives made him do it. He didn't want to insert Seth humor but it was the only way he could sell the show.
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>>100961436
Does he actually say this somewhere or is it just 4chan headcanon?
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>>100961436
>>100961401
>>100961383
then maybe we'll get a director's cut
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>>100961401
t. hasn't watched the Orville
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>>100961436

I believe him, I just couldn't watch it.
>>
>>100961448

He said it. Tactfully, and with much beating about the bush, but he said it.
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>>100961458
I got 4 episodes in and dropped it. I know that the jokes weren't all about dicks and farts, but the jokes were all unfunny and atmosphere-killing.
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>>100961485
What's the quote?
>>
>>100961486
>>100961383
There were also the pop culture references.
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>>100961486
The jokes got better in terms of density as the show went along though IIRC they were about the same from eps 3-4 onwards. There still weren't that many though. They did kill the atmosphere sometimes but the core of the show is good, which is more than I can say for STD.
>>
>>100960810
It's actually a pretty good thread for the moment. What's happening?!
>>
>>100961921

New blood.
>>
Was it really necessary for ENT to try and explain why Klingons looked different?
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>>100961536

Look it up. I'm not a walking newspaper.
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>>100961982
It was wrong and pandering, Worf's "We don't like to talk about it" was the best in joke.
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>>100961982

No. It was a nice touch, but largely unnecessary in my book.
>>
>>100962015

I actually feel this was one time DS9 got it right.
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>>100961982
This is what happens when shows cater to fanwanking headcanon
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PROMENADE
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>>100962161
>>
Can someone shoop a Santa hat on a picture of Dukat? I wanna use it for Christmas
>>
>>100960774
There's people out there who like voyager, all bets are off>>100961486
>>
>>100962445
What's wrong with Voyager? (apart from Kes and too much Borg)
>>
Why are there newfags in muh /trek/? Why won't they lurk before posting?
>>
>>100962675
Broken premises. The two crews integrate immediately and never struggle to get along. The ship itself never struggles because they never run out of resources and it's always bright, shiny and 100% fixed and clean at the beginning of each episode.

Also, Kes is pre-pubescent. Neelix is a child molester.
>>
>>100962675
I'm only up to like S3 on my current rewatch so very vividly in my mind:
Kim
Kes
Akoochymayo
Sarah Silverman
Paris-Warp
Kim
Koochimayo
Amelia Earheart
Kim
>>
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Twin Peaks The Return > Twin Peaks S1 > DS9 > TNG > Twin Peaks S2 = ENT > TOS > VOY
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>>100961982
It could have been left alone, but then DS9 decided to make a joke that made the different appearance in TOS canon.
Blame DS9.
>>
>>100962859
>Kim
>Kim
>Kim
Kim is based clarinet spaceman. Why you no like the Kim?
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>>100962875
>Twin Peaks The Return > Twin Peaks S1 > DS9 > TNG > Twin Peaks S2 = ENT > TOS > VOY
>>
>>100963042
Kim == Wesley.
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>>100962058
When did DS9 get it wrong?
>>
>>100962875
Yet more evidence that you’re mentally deranged. But please, keep posting more off topic material so you can join your pal Mentalcrash
>>
>>100963069
Nooo way. Well, ok maybe. But wesley doesn't have a clarinet mind you.
>>
>>100963096
I legitimately appreciate the Kim/Paris thing when I picture Kim being Wesley. He's competent, he's technically like 4th in command and realistically seecond since the entire away team outranks him. Him and Paris would have such fucking good dynamic if it was Locarno & Wesley post-academy.
>>
>>100962820
>obligatory “I don’t like Voyager for what it isn’t” post
Stationfags and Deltaqueers have been fighting for 3rd best series for 23 years
>>
I have a show idea
The Borgias
>>
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>19 posters
>130 posts
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>>100963150
>Wesley replaces Kim on Voyager
>Paris stays as Locarno
I hate to admit it, but I could actually see it working.
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>>100963177
>sells out in order to fund his retirement
I'd do it too desu
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>>100963177
currently 6.85 posts per IP

not that bad for a general
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>>100963186
Unlike Deep Sleep 9, Voyager didn’t have to pilfer TNG characters for its main cast.
>>
I actually think that Discovery will get good. It's on CBS Network so hopefully some sense will prevail and they'll stop pandering to general audiences and make a show for the fans and actually listen to their criticism of season 1.

The disaster that is nu-Wars can only help this.

They'll definitely tone Burnham right back. Hopefully harder than they eventually shat on Wesley.

Genuine question: Is anyone active in more normie Trek communities aware of people actually liking Burnham? Is she universally loathed?
>>
>>100963283
It literally did that though. EMH is a DS9 character. Paris is Locarno, as mentioned.
>>
>>100963256
>sells out
>is commanded by the angel metatron to create the world's unifying musico-emotional architecture
pick one queer
>>
>>100962820
>The two crews integrate immediately and never struggle to get along

wrong, watch again.


>The ship itself never struggles because they never run out of resources

wrong, watch again.


>and it's always bright, shiny and 100% fixed and clean at the beginning of each episode.

because they can replicate parts, you fucking moron.

>Also, Kes is pre-pubescent. Neelix is a child molester.

even that isn't entirely true
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>>100963283
**laughs internally**
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>>100963442
They can't replicate food but they can replicate parts. Also can afford to keep fuckhueg holodeck and EMH shit running 24/7.

I actually liked Belanna's Inner Light ep explaining that some randoms were sharing their power conservation tech with Voy for a ride.
>>
>>100963391
>I actually think that Discovery will get good

in order to do this they need to change 95% things about the show. Literally impossible. Shit is irrepearable. Even worse than ENT
>>
>>100963567
Handwaving previous seasons is what ENT was all about. There's always a very slim chance it'll come back and just be a trek, same with Orville.
>>
>>100963480
>They can't replicate food

dropped
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>>100963709
they're on restricted rations and neelix has to feed them garbage literally every episode. This justifies the neelix.
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>>100963734
they can still replicate parts
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>>100963391
I'll be frank with you: the main reason I've taken up an interest in Trek is because Star Wars jumped the shark, and I'm sure a bunch of the other new guys here are here for a similar reason.
>>
>>100963394
>EMH is a DS9 character.
Please state the nature of your shitposting emergency.
>>
>>100963391
Some people don't necessarily loathe her, they just feel that she's a boring as hell character to make the main focus on the show, and the idea that a non-captain female character being the main focus isn't even novel: Seven of Nine comes to mind.
>>
>>100963593

Ent was bland and not used very well, that can be fixed.

STD is damaged
>>
>>100963442
This touristy post is so full of tourist spacing that it hurts to look at.
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>>100963283
>Voyager didn’t have to pilfer TNG characters for its main cast.
Brah
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>>100962875
Agreed
>>
>>100963926
There is not a lot of STD that can even carry over into season 2. Some of the characters are legitimately not even awful, Saru is pure trek. Fagineer wasn't the worst. Some of the extras could be expanded upon.
>>
>>100964059

you would need an entire new cast and that is never happening.
>>
>>100963391
>I actually think that Discovery will get good.
Kurtzman is the new showrunner. It's over anon.
>>
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>>100964111
NOOOO TRIP
>>
>>100963442
just finished watching VOY; you're wrong and you should seek an honorable death immediately.
>>
>>100964092
You would only need to reduce Michael's role (or lose her entirely), and it's more likely to happen than, for example, reducing Seth's role (or losing him entirely).

Apart from Michael, the rest are fine.
>>
>>100964059
>Saru is pure trek. Fagineer wasn't the worst.

While this is true there are two problems. The first is that literally everyone else is trash. The second, and more important one, is that Michael renders all the other characters obsolete. They never get a chance to have their own episode or discover a solution to a problem in a way that endears us to them because their role is to be wrong so that Michael can disprove them and be right. The show needs to lose Michael before any of the other characters can shine.
>>
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Looks like Garak wasn’t so... smooth?
>>
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>Neelix is a child molester.
This is how you know it's just shitposting.
>>
>>100964173
>The first is that literally everyone else is trash
i think this is the thing that threw me about STD the most; there's no ensemble, no sense of a crew of well defined individuals working together. just doesn't feel like trek tbqhwy.
>>
>>100960901
Rehashed Star Trek episodes with shitty humor and even shittier acting.
>>
>>100963442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
They have no way to replace photon torpedoes. It cannot be done. Replicating or manufacturing more torpedoes is impossible with their equipment.

Oops.

Infinite torpedoes, infinite shuttlecraft, infinite uniforms fresh from the laundry. They "need" Neelix because the replicator _might_ run out some day, but it never happens. Not even in one episode does Voyager completely run out of food, because the writers were afraid to show real hardship.
>>
>>100964269
Or they bought more.
Or they converted a cargo bay into a torpedo factory.
>>
>>100964173
Well S2 is confirmed to have spock, I want to see the mary-sue off that will destroy trek forever.
>>
>>100964220
"My species doesn't enter puberty until 4 years old! I'm only 1 year old!"

What did she mean by that?
>>
>>100964333
Michael will just devastate Spock. It's not even a question, it's just boring. Like the other anon said there is no ensemble or even a crew so it's not really Trek.
>>100964221
>>
>>100964321
>Or they bought more.
Who the fuck is manufacturing Starfleet torpedoes in the Delta Quadrant?

>Or they converted a cargo bay into a torpedo factory.
If it was possible for them to replace torpedoes then they wouldn't say that it's impossible for them to replace torpedoes.
>>
>>100964269
They don't really use lots of torpedoes. Voyager doesn't actually win any fights in the first half of the series.
>>
>>100964431
Did you accidentally miss the YouTube link?
>>
>>100964335
>only lives 9 years
>was 2 years old when Voyager freed her
>had already lived 22% of her life
don't be a prude she was ready for a dick
>>
>>100964431

the problem is that you have BSG and ENT which both show a world where struggle is a part of the journey. Even within the show, a year of hell where you have actual hardship is the overall problem.

Stranded from home should have a lot more problems, even with space magic
>>
>>100964397
Or it’s possible only if they dedicated resources to do so, which is not part of the default configuration. This is not criticism, this is petulant navalgazing of detailed obsessed autists. Nobody bitches when people hop to and from Earth from DS9 despite the fact it should be a six week trip at high warp.
>>
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>>100964431
I wish I could post the webm on this fucking archaic board. You are just wrong though literally watch the show (or the video the anon linked).
>>
Does anyone wish Garak was more of a double agent than he already is by s7 Sisko and the Federation seem to trust him completely and let him into planning at practically the highest level. Would it have been a good twist to hve him betray them for Cardassia or would that have been predictable and contrived.
>>
>>100964517

the base resource for making torpedos and the shit that runs their warp reactors has to be mined. Like latinum, they just can't make more even though what they can make is essentially space magic anyway.
>>
>>100964269
>They have no way to replace photon torpedoes. It cannot be done. Replicating or manufacturing more torpedoes is impossible with their equipment.
They met a lot of different alien cultures along the way and began manufacturing the torpedoes with the resources they collected.
>>
>>100964485
>was 2 years old when Voyager freed her
Nope. In season 2 she's LESS than 2 years old. Which means in season 1 she was less than 1 year old.

JANEWAY: Humans go through the same kind of process. It's called puberty.
KES: But I'm too young. Much too young. It usually happens between the ages of four and five. I'm not even two yet.
>>
>>100964458
>>100964521
I'm not arguing they don't go over but I'm not saying it's explicitly over either. Warheads are what are going to be limited, as every trek since at least Khan has made changing out warheads a thing. They launch spock out in a torpedo shell, he's certainly not costing them a torpedo.

Not saying Voyager is off the hook but it's not one of those things that autism immediately proves. Also my statement about them not using many torpedoes in the first few seasons stands completely justified. 38 lasts them a while.
>>
>>100964554
What you fail to understand is that Garak was working for Cardassia 100% of the time.

Freeing Cardassia from Dominion slavery only happens to incidentally align with the Federation's anti-Dominion goals.
>>
>>100964647
So of the 38 torpedoes they have, you think the surplus dozens are all firing live crewmembers rather than warheads? You are a fucking genius, this is absolutely the sort of thing Janeway would have done.
>>
>>100964610

they hand wave most of that though. You don't get any details till they start using borg tech to make weapons, honestly.

They should have run out fairly quickly, then made more mundane munitions until they stole or traded for better.
>>
>>100964582
They have everything they need to make torpedoes (replicated shell plus antimatter) it’s just that antimatter is dangerous. Also notice in the video, once the count dips into the negative we’re shown the torpedo workspace where they are performing modifications. I just assume that’s also where they manufacture more.
>>
>>100964625
Kes was born in 2369. Voyager rescued her in 2371. She was nearly two years old by the time of that episode.
>>
>>100964610
What resource did they collect which allows them to manufacture torpedoes? How come they never said "Hey, this resource will allow us to manufacture torpedoes"?

They already said that they cannot make more, so changing this deserves some explanation, right?
>>
>>100964252
Still better than STD
>>
>>100964767
1 year and 1 month gets rounded up to two years old?
>>
>>100962859

okay
kes is a less obnoxious troi
alright
irrelevant
agreed
okay
alright
true
okay
>>
>>100964710
>They have everything they need to make torpedoes (replicated shell plus antimatter) it’s just that antimatter is dangerous.
This is clearly not true because they said that they cannot replace torpedoes. There must be something else that they're missing.
>>
>>100964840
I don't even hate kes the character so much as kes the plot device.
>>
>>100962875

<===/a/ is that way, fren
>>
>>100964775
>>100964853
the engines have antimatter, they can replicate the other parts. Is that something they're willing or able to do?
>>
>>100962889

Let me guess: you shit your pants over Riker being Chef in the ENT season finale too?
>>
>>100964775
It doesn't matter and nobody cares. Perfect offscreen development.
>>
>>100964896
If they can do it that easily, then why did they say that they cannot do it?
>>
>>100963042

Zero character development. Also, being saved in favor of Kess.
>>
>>100964899

>These are the voyages isn't seen as one of the worst finale's ever
>>
>>100963090

Every other time throughout its run. If I have to get another crash-course in Space Judaism I'm gonna vomit.
>>
>>100963069

Let's not go crazy. Kim is more bland than Wesley ever thought about being.
>>
>>100965015
Kim is a Wesley shaped hole.
>>
>>100963043

>>100964870
>>
There is literally nothing similar about Kim and Wesley.
>>
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>>100964911
>nobody cares
Voyager in a nutshell. The writers didn't care and didn't want to be there.

On DS9, the writers kept track of shit like this. For example, all their runabouts had names, and the writers' room had a list of those names to keep track of which runabouts were there and which were gone. That's how the Rio Grande shows up for 7 years but the Ganges stops appearing after it's blown up.

On Voyager, the writers simply threw the "limited resources" premise out the window and gave themselves infinite everything.
>>
>>100964923
Everyone’s making assumptions, but here’s one. When Janeway said they couldn’t make any more, she was wrong.
>>
>>100963150
>>100963186

Do neither of you realize Paris *is* Nick Locarno? Like, explicitly mentioned, by the writers?
>>
Is Kim/Wesley the new Dr. Neelix?
>>
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Tell me about the hirogen
>>
>>100965111
He's not and they explicitly say he isn't.
>>
>>100965102
>>On Voyager, the writers simply threw the "limited resources" premise out the window and gave themselves infinite everything.
this. VOY is surprisingly cosy and relaxed given the premise. they even fuck over the borg multiple times with relative ease. that show is just a heap of wasted potential.
>>
>>100965102
Pillar and Menosky kept meticulous count up until season 5. The producers were uninterested in doing an episode about making more torpedos, so we can either accept that they did or they didn’t. In hindsight, a better solution would have been for Voyager to encounter the Equinox earlier and take their torpedoes.
>>
>>100965111
he's specifically not Lorcarno because the producers went full jew.

>>100965138
shitty predator rip offs. barely better than the kazon, who are already laughable.
>>
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>>100964211
The one light to the right of them makes a heart desu~
>>
>>100965111
>>100965140
>>100965179
He's most definitely NOT Locarno, but he's Locarno and the same actor.
>>
>>100963442

>>Also, Kes is pre-pubescent. Neelix is a child molester.

'the fuck outta here with that shit.
>>
>>100964819
that's like saying HIV is better than AIDS tho
>>
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>>100965179
>mfw the kazon were so shit that the borg didn't even bother to assimilate them
>>
>>100965235
JANEWAY: Humans go through the same kind of process. It's called puberty.
KES: But I'm too young. Much too young. It usually happens between the ages of four and five. I'm not even two yet.

Who the fuck approved this?
>>
>>100965145
The real reason Voyager is set in the Delta Quadrant is so the two production teams of VOY and DS9 wouldn’t have to run every single storyline past each other. It was never intended to be “grimdark crew of the damned,” just comfy TNG style episodes with the B-Team. The EMH doesn’t even know who The Dominion are despite Starfleet encountering them prior to Voyager’s mission into the Badlands.
>>
>>100965255
Janeway accidentally used the word "puberty" instead of "menopause".
>>
>>100963779

There is no fucking refuge here, Anon. Abrams *will* have your shekels, goy.
>>
>>100963929

No one cares.
>>
>>100965221
FÖRST GÂY CHAURACTORS CONFARMÈD! STD BTFÖ!
>>
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>>100965221
>mfw it's true
>>
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>>100965309
>Trekkies are the canary in the coal mine, you Star Wars faggots. Enjoy Episode 9: Dark and the Furious
>>
>>100964269

I don't deny there's plotholes, I just don't think there's any more or less than the other Treks.
>>
>>100962859
>he doesn't like akoocheemoya
We are not far from the normies
>>
>>100965469
Yes, all Star Treks have exactly and precisely 47 plot holes. No more, no less, no exceptions.
>>
>>100964431

They use enough for it to be a noticeable plothole.
>>
>>100965469
This. It’s amazing how much the Incels prefer the show with the black tugboat captain over the one with the sexy female Borg.
>>
>>100965538
To be fair, we meme on Brooks and love Seven. It's pretty irrelevant to the quality of their shows though.
>>
>>100965529
It’s not a plot hole.
>>
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>>100965470
>fuck space and science and shit, live in the jungle where you belong
>>
>>100964335
>>100964625

>applying your morality on fucking to literal space aliens from the other side of the goddamn galaxy

That's not very smart, Anon. No, I'd say that's actually downright idiotic.
>>
What's your favourite name for 'Attack/Evasive pattern X'?
>>
>>100965656
>panflute starts playing
>>
>>100964554

I was disappointed Garak wasn't more of a bastard. You can't build someone up to be a total prick like that and then have him go all soft when it's time to show instead of tell.
>>
>>100965656
oh wow thats a mangled image

>>100965529
>>100965605
It's certainly a minor discontinuity but it really does take them several seasons after the original count to reach the zero point. Maintaining something like that over 4+ seasons is maybe expecting too much.
>>
>>100965657
>>>Kes was more than 2 years old!
>>No she wasn't, and here's proof.
>Who cares lol she's just an alien lol!
You can never win an argument against pedophiles because they never argue in good faith.
>>
>>100965677
Kirk Epsilon
>>
TNG > Voyager > DSN > ENT >TOS
fite me
>>
>>100964979

What makes it so awful? Did you hate Generations because of Shatner?
>>
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>>100965677
Attack Pattern Riker Waffle House Mile High Griddle Stack Alpha
>>
>>100965848
Before I can answer that, we need to settle a debate from a previous thread:

Can you give birth to yourself?
>>
>>100965864
I chuckled
>>
>>100965102

>On DS9, the writers kept track of shit like this. For example, all their runabouts had names, and the writers' room had a list of those names to keep track of which runabouts were there and which were gone. That's how the Rio Grande shows up for 7 years but the Ganges stops appearing after it's blown up.

My space-nigra, shall I make a list of things DS9 fumbled canon-wise?
>>
>>100965864
Fuck off with this meme, Waffle House isn't a real thing.
>>
>>100965848
>a TNG movie doing a crossover with a character from TOS (a passing of the flame, if you will) is the same as characters from another series hijacking the ending of a show that got cancelled
really made me think there
>>
>>100965926
Are you the same Anon who previously got BTFO on the Treaty of Algeron? I don't trust you very much.
>>
>>100965140

No, they said he is but they couldn't use the *name* (royalty bullshit).
>>
>>100965138

Not a bad idea, but more needed to be done with them. Kinda like half of Voyager's re-occurring aliens.
>>
>>100965822
DS9>>>> tng=tos=voy>animated

ent is not canon
>>
>>100965503

m80, yer beginning to sound a bit o' the auld 'tism.
>>
>>100965822
TNG>ENT/DS9>TOS>>>>>>VOY
>>
>>100965656

I agree the sitting bull routine gets a bit old.
>>
>>100966294
shitting bull

>>100966054
i liked what they did with the phag(e)s, good recurrings.
>>
>>100965747

>It's certainly a minor discontinuity but it really does take them several seasons after the original count to reach the zero point. Maintaining something like that over 4+ seasons is maybe expecting too much.

Yeah, it's not a point in the show's favor, but it's hardly the mark of damnation some Anons make it out to be.
>>
>>100965761

>literally obsessed with pedophiles

m8, this isn't the thread for To Catch a Predator. I think you're confused.
>>
>>100966294
Actually in the 90s episodes the random sovereign citizen dudes callin him Chief and shit was pretty funny. They were the true heroes.
>>
>>100965822

TNG>ENT>VOY>DS9>TOS
>>
>>100965885

No clue what you're referencing. Mistaken identity, maybe?
>>
>>100965932

>i haet fun!

Come on, lighten up.
>>
>>100965822
TNG>DS9>ENT>TOS>TAS>VOY>>>>>>>>STD
>>
>>100965947

The "passing of the flame" was supposed to have been done with VI, Generations could absolutely be seen as a straight-up highjack.
>>
>>100966553
TAS>ENT>AUDIOBOOKS>VOY>STD>TNG>TOS>DS9
>>
>>100965978

Then what is there to talk about?
>>
>>100966617
there's such a thing as subtlety anon
>>
>>100966499
In the finale of Enterprise, Archer doesn't even get to found the Federation. His off-screen speech founds the Coalition of Planets, which eventually gives birth to the Federation.

All that buildup and no payoff, they end with a wet fart.
>>
>>100966617
BAIT
>>
>>100965932
t. non-american
>>
>>100966587
Shatner was metaphorically resting in his grave and TNG was like "Yo we need you to help make our movie" and so he could finally be left to die he did. TNG digs up the bones of many old TOS chars, but it did need to prove its legitimacy.
>>
>>100966676

Anon, for all intents and purposes, you saw the founding of the Federation. I get that for whatever bullshit canon-reason they didn't straight up *make* it that, but it amounts to largely the same difference.

I thought it was an extremely moving episode with a funny in-joke for some humor.
>>
>>100966730

Ever wonder why all the lead cast signed their names to the credits in VI, Anon?
>>
>>100966811
>I thought it was an extremely moving episode with a funny in-joke for some humor.
I'm starting to suspect that you may have been trolling this entire thread.
>>
>>100966873

Not trolling. But also not as cynical.
>>
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>>100965932
They have over 2,100 locations in 25 states in the United States.
>>
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TOS Films (except TMP) = TNG > TOS > DS9 = VOY > ENT > TNG films > Kelvin films = STD > TAS > TMP
>>
>>100967036
>believing he doesnt believe in waffle house
Come on, its just a mad person.
>>
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>>100965947
Undiscovered Country did it first
>>
>>100967065

I thought there was only one bad TNG film. Sorry you don't think very highly of them.
>>
>>100967162

Not *quite* the same, but I see where you're coming from.
>>
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currently watching voyager's Bride of Chaotica and its the best capt proton episode to me. but its still just the top of a shit pile. whats /trek/s favorite reoccurring holodeck setting?

pic untrelated #justice4tuvix
>>
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>>100967179
Only plebs like you have a positive opinion of any of TNG's dullest entries in the franchise's history. Seriously, each flick following Action Picard and his chad pals from Enterprises D&E as they fight revenge-seeking Khan-lites has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the films' only consistency has been their lack of excitement and ineffective special effects, all to make scifi into scifantasy, to deliver the franchise into the hands of JJ.

Perhaps the die was cast when Berman vetoed the idea of Frakes directing Nemesis; he made sure the cast's final entry would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable milking of geekdom's sacred cow. The TNG movies might be anti-Roddenberry (or not), but they're certainly the anti-TOS motion pictures in their refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the TNG books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the books are terrible. As I read one, I noticed that every time the author ran out of ideas, they wrote instead another character from another series crossing over to bail them out.

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time a character from a different series appeared in a novel for TNG. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope over 47 times. I was incredulous. The minds of TNG novel authors are so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that they have no other style of writing. Later, I read a lavish, loving review of one such TNG novel by the StarTrek.com official website. They wrote something to the effect of, "If you're still hungry for even more Next Generation, then check out Star Trek/Doctor Who: Assimilation^2, available now at a local LCS store near you." And they were quite right. They were not being ironic. When you read shitty TNG fanfic books, you are, in fact, trained to read shitty TNG fanfic comics.
>>
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>>100965241
>so shit that 2 ferengi with a replicator could have defeated them if they werent too busy being god kings
>>
>>100967317

Is this pasta? Tell me this is pasta.
>>
>>100966003
t. misinfo agent

>McNeill explained, "Locarno seemed like a nice guy, but deep down he was a bad guy. Tom Paris is an opposite premise in a way. Deep down he's a good guy. He's just made some mistakes."

>The producers at the time wanted him to bring some of the same edginess and qualities he had brought to Nick Locarno, to the character of Tom Paris, with the difference that Paris' character would be redeemable.
>>
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>>100967461
>Is this pasta?
>>
>>100967461
Hello newfriend, welcome to 4chan, make yourself at home and enjoy your stay.

HOWEVER--
>>
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>>100967244
#allblacktalaxianhybidlivesmatter
>>
>>100967489

Source?
>>
>>100967545
http://www.robertduncanmcneill.net/stcomm.html
>>
>>100967317
10/10 the jpg subtlety is sublime.
>>
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>>100967555
>>
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>>100967562
It's a 6/10 because it's missing DFW
>>
>>100967555

Wow, would you look at that? I guess I was wrong. I'd always heard that he was Locarno in everything but name to avoid paying the scriptwriter a royalty every episode.

Mind you, he's still going to stay Locarno in my headcanon, but that was a great find none-the-less.
>>
>>100967317
>I noticed that every time the author ran out of ideas, they wrote instead another character from another series crossing over to bail them out.

This is true of all post TOS series based books. ST novels are 99% shit.
>>
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JEWS stole the spirit of star trek.
>>
>>100967814
1% is A Stitch in Time.
>>
>>100967837

Gene was a jew.
>>
>>100967858
As star trek fans, we still have to listen to all the audiobooks.
>>
>>100967904
>listening to audiobooks
Read it with your eyes like a normal person
>>
>>100967837
Jews are the spirit of Star Trek, goyim.
>>
>>100967946
Anti-Geordi posts are not welcome.
>>
>>100967895
Gene was a jew at heart.
>>
>>100967968
are you implying Geordi, the chief engineer of starfleet's flagship, cant read?
>>
>>100967946
Audiobooks are for people who like to do two things at once, anon-kun.
>>
>>100967968
>>100968000
It's because he's black, isn't it
>>
New:
>>100968007
>>100968007
>>100968007
>>
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>>100967837
Solow and Justman were Jewish. If you don't know who they are or why they were important then you're an entry-level casual.

>>100967946
Audiobooks did nothing wrong.
>>
>>100964517
>people hop to and from Earth from DS9
When does this happen? I'm on Season 4 and they've only gone to Earth like, once, in the time travel 2-parter.
Timeskips are not plotholes.
>>
>>100968309
there was the time that quark's shuttle went to earth and.... oh.




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