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Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?

The leadership team was the same. Almost all of the designers and writers were the same. Most of the artists and world builders were the same. Even back then, our dear friend Todd was in charge of Morrowind too.

What happened?
>>
>>384281492

poor design priorities

inefficient and downright negligent development cycle

business needs put in front of game needs
>>
>>384281706
Can you be more specific?
>>
Leveling in oblivion could be fixed by doing it "wrong", I agree with everything else though
>>
>>384281868


>inefficient and downright negligent development cycle

-too much effort wasted trying to set up "Radiant AI". There was no such thing in-game in the end.
-game designed around the oblivion gate mechanic to compartimentalize the main quest away from the rest of the game but no work towards compelling incorporation
-no playtesting or thorough study of game progression leading to broken leveling, broken loot and items, and dreadfully tedious combat and enemies.

>poor design priorities

-game designed to ape popular fantasy of the time(Lord of the Rings) while shedding a substantial amount of TES's own identity for very generic medieval fantasy
-hiring of expensive Voice Actors like Patrick Steward for publicity's sake on an audience that hardly gave a fuck

>business needs put in front of game needs

-points stated above
-three shitty DLCs one of them being Horse Armor and only one good one
>>
>>384283169
Do you have any theories on why a team that made a game like Morrowind would make those seemingly rookie mistakes?

Was it the publishers forcing them?

I just can't see the person who wrote Morrowind telling his programmers "Throw it out! We need to make it more like Lord of the Rings!"
>>
>>384283467
>I just can't see the person who wrote Morrowind telling his programmers "Throw it out! We need to make it more like Lord of the Rings!"
This happens fairly often in video games in order to appeal to a larger demographic.
See : Fallout 4
An alright game in its own right, but watered down to such a point it couldn't be considered a fallout game anymore.
>>
>>384281492
Oblviion was a good game you fucking insufferable autists. Muh muh morrowing WUUUUHHHHHH ;-;

None of you have ever fucking played murruhwind it so stop larping.
>>
>>384283643
Even skyrim is fucking better.
The nostalgia defense is gone now. Oblivion is genuinely the worst.
>>
>>384281492
The music in Oblivion was fucking fantastic though.
>>
>>384283785
People who were kids when Oblivion was new are 18 and 19 now.
>>
>>384283958
Yeah but you can't say anyone prefers Skyrim and Morrowind both for nostalgia reasons.
>>
When are getting a TES6 anyway? It's been close to 6 years since Skyrim.
>>
>>384281492
Oblivion side quests and faction quests were actually better than MW sidequests, you dumb cunt.
>>
>>384281492
It didn't. You just either have nostalgia goggles for Morrowind or you are just bandwagoning on the Oblivion hate. Every Elder Scrolls has had their fair share of flaws
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>>384284063
Please look forward to Skyrim 2
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>>384284008
Good fucking Christ, In 10 years we will have people here on /v/ making Skyrim nostalgia threads.

If this truly happens I will make sure to find out where you live and personaly FUCKING FUMIGATE YOU CUNT!
>>
>>384283785
>>384283958
>>384284146
Actually, those are the Skyrim fanboys, aka you. Back to réddit with your RPG that has literally no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Fucking underage faggots.
>>
>>384284063
>It's been close to 6 years since Skyrim.

Just in time for the HD Remaster Platinum Game of the Decade Edition
>>
>>384283467
>Do you have any theories on why a team that made a game like Morrowind would make those seemingly rookie mistakes?

i wasn't paying attention back then and i'm only going off testimonies of other fans but the creative staff at Bethesda was very much rearranged around the time, the development of Fallout 3 had much to do with it. Todd Howard had the lead for the first time.

also Morrowind was developed when the company was in poor economic state, there was more work put with less budget and without a solid deadline to the process, which lead to the game being more limited in scope but far more polished and consistent in it's content and presentation.

>>384283643

i'm a relatively new fan. I played morrowind and Oblivion back to back before Skyrim was released, back in 2010.

Oblivion was just a massive step down from Morrowind, i greatly enjoyed and got immersed in the later but could not bear the former. Needless to say Skyrim was a big let down too, but i feel it keeps something from Morrowind that Oblivion didn't have, a variety and unique aesthetic to it's own, i enjoyed Dreugh tombs, dungeons and dwemer ruins much more than generic Ayleid ruins and sewers that all looked the same.
>>
>>384284146
Clearly you only hate yourself if people being born later is offensive to you.

you just don't wanna be reminded that you didn't achieve anything in your life and you are still here in 10 years.

>>384284226
I didn't even say skyrim is the best what the fuck

Lets leave all other games out of this discussion
Just oblivion alone
In a vacuum.

Its complete shit.
>>
>>384284226
Uhm annon, read the post again.>>384284146
>>
>>384281492
LOTR
>>
>>384281492
>morrowind combat is better than oblivion
Is this the power of autism?
>>
>>384281492
>Sidequests in Morrowind
>Not shit
It's a plebian simulator in the truest sense of the world. You're a bitch until you're head honcho of basically all guilds as long as you level up blunt weapons.
>>
>>384284313
Of course you're a new fucking fan. /v/ quality would improve drastically if we'd just ban everyone under 25 and you mouthbreathing faggots would be restricted to reddit.
>>
There have been lots more oblivion threads recently. What for?
>>
>>384284390
Why are you obsessed with Skyrim you reddit tier faggot? Fuck off and take your trash with you ape.
>>
>>384284226
>you just have nostalgia glasses for morrowind
>actually you are just underage and that is why you can't appreciate Oblivion

The absolute fucking state of you guys. This is hilarious. Oblivion has to be a terrible game if defending it drives you mad like this.
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>>384281492
Morrowind was a last ditch effort to make their best game before going out of business, Oblivion was a sequel to popular series belonging to successful company with plenty of corporate meddlers.
>>
>>384284450

Morrowind combat starts out shit and gets good when you stop missing

Oblivion combat starts ok then gets fucking horrid when you stop doing any damage.

>>384284540

i wasn't into RPGs at all before, eat a dick. My main genre was arena shooters before.
>>
>>384281492
Music in Oblivion is better.
>>
>>384284313
>the creative staff at Bethesda was very much rearranged around the time

Nah, go look at the credits. Most of the names are the same.

Todd Howard, and Ken Rolston were the lead designers and idea guys on both, Guy Carver, Craig Walton were lead programmers, Matthew Carofano was the lead artist on both, Christiane Meister was the lead character designer on both, Hope Adams and Noah Berry were the world building team leaders on both, etc.
>>
>>384281492
>Combat went from absolute shit to what
>The landscape went from absolute shit to mediocre
>Enjoyment from dungeon crawling went from pretty shitty to at least less shitty
>Sidequests, the majority of the content, went from shit to decent.

Play Morrowind and then play Oblivion directly after. There's so much shit that makes sense.
>>
>>384284390
A-anon, we're talking about the elder scroll games, leave your issues at the door.
>>
>>384281492
>Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?
it didn't, it was better

>What happened?
good things
>>
>>384284797

where was kirkbride though? his influence in morrowind was huge
>>
>>384281492
easiest way to fix oblivion combat without modding is to simply never level up via sleep. some enemies are naturally stronger than others and you will get stronger over time as skills increase, then there is a difficulty slider you can adjust as you see fit in the menu should the game start getting too easy over time. (alot better than damage sponge enemies)
>>
>>384284797
Inside the credits lies the answer.

Morrowind:
>Game Design
>The Morrowind‑Team

Oblivion:
>Game Design
>Bethesda Game Studios
>>
>>384283169
>inefficient and downright negligent development cycle
That's Bethesda for you. They waste half of their budget on stupid shit. Celebrity VAs, radiant AI, voiced protagonist.
>>
>>384281492
>music
both were about the same
>lore
morrowind was better but oblivion was still good
>world design
morrowind was better but oblivion was still good
>main quest
yeah ok oblivion failed a bit here, but parts of it were good
>side quests
i'd give the edge to oblivion
>combat
oblivion fucking blows morrowind out of the park. morrowind's combat is so utterly awful as to be almost unplayable. i honestly don't know how anyone can remotely stomach it. oblivion has issues but they're all fixable by mods; morrowind's combat issues are NOT fixable by mods and this is why it's so fucking awful.
>>
>>384281492
I've never played morrowind. I hear so much about it. What do I need to play and where can I get a copy?
>>
>>384285146
Steam? Ebay? Amazon?

Suck a dick.
>>
>>384284146
I remember back just before Skyrim was released, people on /v/ were saying that there would be a time when people would love Oblivion. At the time I didn't believe it, but now we have people on this board who unironically say Oblivion was the best Elder Scrolls. So now I'm following in the footsteps of those wise oldfags and say that after the release of the next Elder Scrolls, there will be people who believe Skyrim was absolutely perfect and the best in the series. I hope at that time, there will still be people on this board who haven't forgotten how bad Skyrim actually was
>>
>>384285146
http://www.gog.com/game/the_elder_scrolls_iii_morrowind_goty_edition
i am >>384285113 though and personally i think you need a lot of fucking patience to get through it. the combat is not fun at all and mods can't really fix it, it's just bad at its core. you could try morroblivion but that requires you to have both morrrowind and oblivion. plus it's a pain to set up.
>>
>>384285146
Get it on GoG. Don't mod it on your first run, except using either OpenMW or the code patch.
>>
>>384284925

but if you don't level you never encounter a lot of the game's high level enemies thus you miss content

the problem isn't just a particularly bad level system, it's the greater structure of the game progression that sucks, from the spawns, to the placement of quest objectives, to the way you receive xp, to the speed and length of the quests.
>>
>>384284925
>>384285417
honestly all you really need to fix it imo is fransesco's
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>>384285315
Don't listen to this man. Get all the unofficial patches.

Morrowind has more CTD errors and literally unsolvable quests than any other elder scrolls game.
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>>384285309
>the combat is not fun at all and mods can't really fix it

Gratuituous Violence literally fixes it right out.

http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/37977/?
>>
>>384281492

Opinions /= facts
>>
>>384281492
The series was starting to get popular so they decided to casualize it to cash in on normalfag shekels. You can clearly see this on the province itself since they retconned the entire thing in favor of a LOTR setting since the movies were popular at the time (they even brought back Mithril which was taken out of Morrowind since the devs wanted TES to feel more like its own setting).
>>
>>384284613
I'd recommend (very much heavily)
KOTOR and Baldurs Gate. really good franchises. play em.
>>
Console priority and kowtowing to people who bitched about little nuances that added to the experience.
>>
>>384283169
Finally an intelligent nigga on the subject of Oblivion.

Let's also add the dumb ass engine and how they removed so much from Morrowind. Placing items in the world now involves physics so you can't stack your armor or items anywhere you want.

The customization of armor and variety of weapons was left to generic LotR fantasy. Can't break the game with OP spells. Can't kill any main characters.

I def. Agree on the Patrick Stewart thing. Completely unnecessary. Same thing with Liam Neeson in Fallout 3 aka Oblivion with guns.
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>>384285687
I thought that was what the code patch was fixing.
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>>384285146
Play Daggerfall instead. It does everything Morrowind does better. It has a few...outdated gameplay mechanics, but if you can't get past that you won't be able to stomach MW anyway.

Plus you can get a free download link for Daggerfall from the Bethesda website
>>
If you base the games at their times of development and release then Morrowind beats all.

The flaws for Skyrim and Oblivion have threads upon threads worth of complaints. The only flaw that gets brought up for Morrowind is that one gif of you fighting a mudcrab and dying. Skyrim and Oblivion might have improved combat over Morrowind, but they suck at everything else in comparison
>>
>>384286117
>It does everything Morrowind does better

it has the shittiest quests on the franchise, worse than anything in skyrim

worse loot than oblivion too
>>
>>384283169
There was Patrick Stewart in oblivion?
>>
>>384286017
The three Unofficial patches from the Morrowind Patch Project fix several hundred bugs each, far more than the Code Patch.
>>
>why am I missing at low level
>why does it take so long to get places
>what's with this weird ass mushroomy shit, where's my castles and knights
>why are the characters saying so much, why can't they do it out loud
>I don't know where to go
>man imagine this with graphics

The end result of listening to idiots.
>>
>>384284613
>Morrowind combat starts out shit and gets good when you stop missing
No, it gets boring when you're fighting something 12 levels below you and can never possibly beat you but won't let you recover fatigue until it's dead, forcing you to stand around clicking until it does finally die.

>Oblivion combat starts ok then gets fucking horrid when you stop doing any damage.
Your fault for not getting +5 modifiers on strength. If you don't rush through levels like a retard, you can very easily keep pace with the leveling enemies
>>
>>384286428

so you're saying standing around clicking is unacceptable when you need to keep your stamina but perfectly fine when your enemies are hit sponges?
>>
>>384286428

>rush through levels like a retard

This in the same genre that's supposed to encourage levels because you get more powerful with them.
>>
>>384286202
It's a dungeon crawler, the quests are supposed to be like that. And there's still more substance in going through a dungeon fighting enemies and collecting loot until you find your target than there is in walking 20 minutes to an empty 2-room cave in the middle of nowhere to kill one guy and then going back for a handful of coins
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>>384286657
>It's a dungeon crawler, the quests are supposed to be like that

so why would you recommend it to someone in place of Morrowind? how is it Morrowind but better?
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>>384283169
They also tried to fix a bunch of stuff that wasn't necessarily broken - a bit overcomplicated maybe - by dumbing it down to spring temperature IQ levels.
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>>384286428
>>384286564
Skyrim comic, but the same thing applies.

In Skyrim, you level up and the Draugr get replaced with Draugr Jabronis, etc.

In Oblivion, you level up and the imps get replaced by ogres.

Same shit, different day.

(Actually, Morrowind did the same thing in the dungeons, but not the surface world)
>>
>>384286742
Because some people still insist that "Complicated" automatically means "good"

And everything in Daggerfall is gigantic and complicated because they use random generators to make everything as big as they want. Thus, you get towns with 30 bars and 500 houses or more.
>>
>>384286428
Even if you understand the leveling system and do it 100% right the leveled enemies/loot are still garbage. In Morrowind it was nearly impossible to put together a full set of daedric armor, it barely existed in the game. Which made it fucking cool.

In oblivion it's hurr durr bandits all have daedric after a certain point.
>>
>>384281492
>Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?

Easy answer: The emergence of consoles. Game developers discovered in pre-dev research that typical console gamers were not nearly as intelligent as typical pc gamers. Devs learned that console gamers were tuning out games that included complex story lines and complex gaming mechanics in favor of linear progression, simple gaming functionality, and gaming-on-rails mechanics.

tl;dr - Oblivion, like so many games released after 2002, was dumbed down for console sales. No, the "dumbed down for consoles" is not a meme. It is indisputable fact.
>>
If anyone wants to tell me how someone could rate Morrowinds side quests over Oblivions, I would be happy to know.

Especially if we factor in the expansions, Oblivion blows it out the water.
>>
>>384286554
No, I'm saying that having to stand around doing nothing but click until the enemy is dead is mind-numbingly dull, and the game forces you to do it because you have to periodically rest to recover your stamina and you can't rest with enemies around.

>>384286564
>It's not my fault for not understanding how the game mechanics work when it's spelled out for me
>>
>>384281492
The music in oblivion is way better than in morrowind
>>
>>384287516

>spelled out for me

Except it's not, at fucking all, going from Morrowind to Oblivion it's like the leveling system goes full fucking retard.
>>
>>384287089
>It's cool having all this awesome gear because I can't get it. Being able to get this awesome, endgame level gear that lets me keep pace with the stronger enemies is dumb
??
>>
>>384287693
rtfm
>>
>>384287430
>If anyone wants to tell me how someone could rate Morrowinds side quests over Oblivions, I would be happy to know.

simple fact that there are more factions and they have constant intermingling.

the Three houses fucking with eachother, the camona tong and the thieves guild fucking with eachother, the fighter and mages guilds being full of corruption and infighting and the "greater picture" of morrowing being a seedy place makes for a nicer game than having one or two guild quests being interesting and cool and giving you full rewards then the rest of the game being dumb peasant/town potato problems.

Oblivion doesn't even have a proper legion faction you can join.
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Fixed
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>>384287430
Let's look at the Fighter's Guild as an example.

Morrowind has 31 Fighter's Guild quests, Oblivion has 19.

It's not strictly about numbers though, let's delve a little into those quests.

In Morrowind, the first quest is to go to someone's house and kill all the rats. You go upstairs and find every single barrel and cabinet is stuffed to the brim with pillows. It's amusing, but you kill the rats and get your money. Later, completely randomly, you can actually find an unmarked sunken ship full of pillows, with a shipping note saying it is addressed to that one NPC.

In Oblibion, you also get a rat problem quest, for a very similarly named NPC. You go and find out you're actually trying to save the rats, it is an amusing twist, and have to take several steps to find out how and why the rats are being attacked.

Oblivion is amusing, but relies on outside content for the joke to be funny.

As the Oblivion quest line progresses, you just do random quests, eventually with the final person giving you quests regarding the Blackwood Company, who are basically just the Evil Fighter's Guild and you can't join them. Eventually the master of the guild makes you master even though she hates you because... reasons I guess.

In Morrowind, the Fighter's guild quests pit you against the Thieves Guild, a guild you can join. In fact, unless you do thing very specifically, they are mutually exclusive of each other. It's not just random bad guys, each play through can put you on either side of their fight. As the quest line progresses, you find out the guild leaders all have different priorities, and maybe aren't who they seem. In fact, they've been making you do some pretty shady shit. If you trust the right people, you can learn how the guild plans to betray you. Once you reach the leader, you kill the leaders of the Thieves Guild and then he tries to kill you, and you become leader thanks to making allies and killing the old one.
>>
>>384281492
daggerfall to morrowind the budget got reallocated to different places
morrowind to oblivion the budget got reallocated to different places
>>
>>384288959
oblivion to skyrim was just the same
>>
>>384288867
tl;dr:

In Oblivion, you do quests and then you are the boss.

In Morrowind, you have political intrigue, factions fight, the boss of your own views you as a threat, you kill each other's allies, and eventually one of you has to come out on top.
>>
>>384288120
>>384288867
Those aren't really the quests though, thats the setting around the quests right? Which yes, I think Morrowind does better.

But as far as what you actually do in the quests, Oblivion dumpsters it, you go into a painting, you run a dungeon, you go into a house and murder people one by one without anyone finding out its you.

Whats the Thieves guild ending again, you jump off the White Gold tower or some shit? I honestly can't think of anything that even comes close to any of those in Morrowind.
>>
>>384286887
You know in FO4, they fixed the leveling.

So now if you go back to a reloaded concord, you get shit tier enemies with shit shooters that do fuckall damage you can stomp 7 days a week.
>>
>>384286428
>minmaxing in oblivion
>minmaxing in any tes ever

having 100 strength and agility at level 8 sure is fun ...for 5 minutes. Then you realize you just ruined your character and any and all level progression for the rest of your playthrough
>>
>>384287516
Or you could make fatigue potions, or a really cheap restore fatigue enchant, you know, doing things that involve playing the game
>>
>>384286887
Some enemies had fixed level in Skyrim, and even the tiered enemies stopped leveling after a point.
>>
>>384281492
at least i can hit shit in oblivion
>>
>>384293092
wow
a whole generation and they took accuracy out so casual retards can get their instant gratification
>>
>>384293092
you can hit shit just fine after about 30 minutes of breaking in your character

but after about 5 hours of oblivion, enemy health inflates so hard you end up mashing attacks more than you would in the beginning of morrowind
>>
>>384293092
>>384294468
Morrowind:
>Enemy has 100 health
>Each hit does 25 damage
>25% chance to hit
>Takes roughly 16 hits to kill it at low levels, and 4 hits at high levels

Oblivion:
>Enemy has 100 health
>Each hit does 6 damage
>100% chance to hit
>Takes roughly 16 hits to kill it at low levels, and roughly 16 hits to kill at high levels because it gets more HP as you level
>>
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Real talk: what are the best mods for Morrowind?
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I got oblivion during the last steam sale but my 360 controller is not working with it. Can anyone help me?
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>>384294468
>>384294662
>>384294941
what is restoration and using life drain on touch to literally slap it 3-4 times at any lv while gaining health instead of swinging a sword and not hitting anything until you pass out for 300 please, i get you have to lv specific whatever to land hits but its fucking gay i just want to play the game not fucking grind one skill to get to grind the next skill
>>
>>384282490
>not leveling speechcraft, mercantile, and block for maximum difficulty
>>
>>384281492
Daggerfall was better than those two anyway.
>>
>>384295228

all the darknut texture packs

graphic herbalism

better bodies

Morrowind comes alive

all mckombs faces

morrowind graphics extended
>>
>>384295937
You can do the same shit in morrowind, and worse so your point is moot.
>>
>>384284540
>30 yr old permavirgin thinks he is allowed to post his opinion

yopu should be cremated
>>
>>384296415
the point is it takes too long to fucking start doing anything, thats why you all have to mod your shit game to hell to make it playable
vanilla oblivion > vanilla morrowind
>>
>>384296987
vo > vm > vs
>>
oblivion is BY FAR the worst game out of the 3 latest ones. Worse levelling by a hurge margin, unimaginative world (they butchered Cyrodill), terrible faces and animations, no real conflict or realism in any of the cities (as opposed to racism and slavery in Skyrim and Morrowind respectively).

Not to mention endless dungeon crawling in dungeons designed by 1 (ONE) person with shit loot which makes basically all dungeons worthless. Not even gonna mention the badly written characters and main quests because that's a staple in the TES franchise
>>
>>384296796
underage ban faggot thinks he is edgy
more at 11
>>
>>384297267
enjoy your infinite same dugeon claw puzzles and zombie nords faggot
>>
>>384281492
You are out of your goddamn mind if you think the side quests in Morrowind are better than Oblivion.
I think the guild/faction structures and way they interact are way better, but the actual quests themselves are pretty much all "I got this job for you to go here and do this thing with no context and come back thanks."
>>
>>384297434
what? You should come back here when you're atleast 18 and TES 6 is released, then your shit nostalgia game will be more forgotten than Daggerfall
>>
>>384297434

beats endless goblin-infested ayyyleid ruins with nothing of worth in them
>>
>>384296987
Restoration in oblivion takes way fucking longer to level than any single stat in morrowind.

If you know what you're doing in morrowind, you can make yourself an enchant that can cast any magnitude of any spell from any school of magic, including shit you could never do in oblivion like a constant effect bound weapon with +20 constant to whatever skill or attribute it governs. You can do this within an hour of starting a fresh character so don't give me that shit just because you couldn't get over the hump to actually get invested in the game.
>>
Morrowind's side quest are garbage though, only the main quest is great
>>
>>384297437
>I think the guild/faction structures and way they interact are way better, but the actual quests themselves are pretty much all "I got this job for you to go here and do this thing with no context and come back thanks."

apart from the three or so utterly insane quests in Oblivion most are the same

TES quests in general aren't really that creative as a rule.
>>
>>384295228
pretty much anything that expands the game more into what the developers envisioned when they thought of things

Simple things like Animated Morrowind, Old Dwemer Books, Vivec Expansion, White Suran, and Endusal and Tureynulal Redone that you wouldn't even notice weren't in the base game if it were your first time playing
>>
>People who go into combat with no stamina and wonder why they can't hit shit
>>
>>384296987
Other than morrowind code patch, the game doesn't need mods.

Oblivion is awful without something to autolevel leveled loot rewards.
>>
>>384297624
have you even played oblivion?
>>
>>384297532
nice comeback
i have more fun playing daggerfall then morrowind thanks for reminding me
>>
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Go look at the wiki article that catalogs the differences between the three games and you'll immediately see why
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>>384297693
yea i also made air jordans, that were enchanted to let me fly across the map and feather fall down, its still a shit game
>>
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Hey what's going on in this thread?
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>>384298752
less shit than oblivion
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>>384298191
yes having to do a fuck ton of things before you can play the game sure is fun
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Leveled monsters are bad
Leveled loot lists are cancer and whoever invented that shit should be tossed into a dwemer shithole.
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>>384298387
baby needs better items
try using only your fists
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>>384298906
>don't use a weapon for a stat that you never leveled or specialized in
>don't attack when you have literally no stamina left

Wow so difficult
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>tfw doing my first mage run on morrowind
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>>384298837
skyrim* fixed
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>>384299154
i said fun, its not difficult
and its not fucking fun, unless u mod or console command and doing that just makes you prove my point that its not fun to begin with.
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>>384299205
How is it? I've played a bajillion fairly generic fighters or theives. Never done pure mage. Is it tough to get started?
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>>384299423
It is fun, you just don't know how to play
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>>384299605
enchant only mage is my favorite way to play
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Really if you've never worked hard to make a character that's good and not a piece of shit you'll never really get why people like Morrowind. You've sort of been trained to just expect that from the get go but there's a special pleasure from building and tweaking a character from the ground up, with the possibility for failure being an actual thing. When you succeed it's
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To those of you considering texture packs, I'd sugges the Morrowind Watercolored mod. It doesn't fuck shit up with weirdly high-res textures on low-polygon models and instead tries to give the game a softer look with watercolour-like textures
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>>384281492
>Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?
It didn't. It was a shitty game with terrible art dirction, shitty brown environments and dice roll combat. You are a deeply autistic nostalgiafag and that is the only thing motivating your retarded opinion.
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>>384299605
It's fun and i had an easier time getting started than my other character attempts. Alchemy / Enchanting and Spell making is the shit.
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>>384288861
objectively correct
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>>384299954
>It didn't. It was a shitty game with terrible art dirction, shitty brown environments and dice roll combat

and it was better than the game with atrocious art direction, puke green megablock playset environments and wet paddle combat

only a true nostalgiafag would think Oblivion is anything but the laughing stock of the genre.
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>>384299993
>enchants recharge passively
>magicka doesn't

wew

what were they thinking
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>>384299673
no its just a shit game
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>>384300116
Okay, I get it, you're a faggot and you just prefer generic brown environments and shitty combat in addition to megablock playset environments and atrocious art direction. Cool dood.
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>>384300189
Yeah resting so much or chugging pots is a pain in the ass, was wondering if there is a way to make your own magicka regen ?
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>>384298803
add a row that says "spears"
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>>384300203
t. casual that couldn't even manage to get into morrowind
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>>384300318
I don't think so, but it sure makes atronach birthsign strong if you're not into resting
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>>384299954
>original and elder scrolls defining art direction instead of muh generic medieval bleh
>a combat system with depth
>huge faction depth
>incredible enchanting system
>meaningful legendary gear as opposed to every rando bandit rocking glass/daedric end game
You're shit and so is your taste
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Theres literally no reason not to pick Atronach every time regardless of build, what the fuck. Even just for the spell absorption.
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>>384300824
> Shitrim isn't even diamond, but glass

Seems accurate.
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>>384300325
neck-beard who thinks he can get pussy playing shit games like morrowind
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>>384300752
In oblivion? It's a pain in the ass if you're not full melee/ranged unless you have 100 alchemy

In morrowind? Some of the other birthsigns give tremendous stat boosts

Still, breton+atronach is fucking great
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>>384286428
>but won't let you recover fatigue until it's dead, forcing you to stand around clicking until it does finally die.

Drink a fucking restore fatigue potion holy shit
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>>384283169
>-three shitty DLCs one of them being Horse Armor and only one good one
There were eight DLCs of varying quality and two good expansions. All the house DLCs were better than any house in vanilla, Mehrunes Razor was a fun dungeon, KotN has some flaws (like having to play a goodie paladin to do it and use the rewards) but is still a solid experience, and only a true nigger talks shit on Shivering Isles.
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>>384300747
>You're shit and so is your taste
Coming from the faggot who prefers shit-brown environments, that's an ironic statement for you to make. Also, the "Morrowind had trippy environments" meme needs to fucking die. They didn't look trippy, they didn't look like "alien worlds", they looked like shit. They looked like mud-brown shit. On top of that, the combat system was beyond retarded even for the time, and having a slightly deeper enchanting system or more factions doesn't make up for it. The game blows.
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>>384301013
KotN rustled me a bit

>Pelinal was a goodie paladin
>the knights accept elves

This is not what Pelinal was or would have wanted.
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>>384300321
weapon types durr
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>>384301091
/thread
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>>384283958
*23
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>>384301135
>Pelinal literally just went around killing random elves at times
>but he was a 0 infamy hero anyway
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>>384301170
It is unbelievable to me that anyone can actually gaze upon this fucking piece of shit and tell me they think it's better than Oblivion. Just fucking look at that. And it's not even because it's an older game, plenty of old games were colorful as fuck. It just has the art direction of a digestional tract. Morrowind faggots are the worst of the worst.
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>>384301585
Are you americunt who grew up with Nintendo or something? Just curious.
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>>384301151
i know, it was a joke
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>>384301493
>he murdered thousands of khajiit before realising that they weren't actually elves
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it's all the level scaling. yeah, the generic world design and the potato faces makes it worse, but it doesn't make the game shit like level scaling does.

people like to complain about morrowind combat being just numbers but that's exactly what oblivion and skyrim are like too only there's no chance to miss. the combat is too simplistic and uninteresting with no strategy or finesse to it. in a traditional RPG that would work somewhat since increasing your numbers and overcoming hard enemies is a bit satisfying, but in a level scaled RPG with shit combat there is literally no point. the enemies are just tedium and bloat keeping you from the next point the quest marker is leading you to.

at the VERY least oblivion had some quests where you did other things than combat. the popularity of skyrim honestly baffles me since the combat is legitimately some of the very worst video games have to offer and THE ENTIRE GAME is based around it. there is NOTHING ELSE TO IT.
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>>384281492
>falling for the morromeme
Apart from the retarded enemy levelling and potato face characters (both easily fixable issues), Oblivion is the superior game in every way.
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>>384281492
Never played OblIVion. That said, Morrowind was a shit. The game (sans a healthy amount of mods) was all but unplayable. The RNG for hit rolls was turbo-fucked, when your Stam is low, it reduces the RNG by a larger amount (and seems to be added after stamina is spent, but before hit/miss is calculated causing you to miss FAR MORE attacks than you should), also, NPCs don't abide by those rules at all, and can rush'n'attack you straight to dead. FUCK this broken boring game.

Skyrim, despite its many glaring flaws is just a better game than BOTH of those prequels. Daggerfall though, is pretty fucking awesome.
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>>384301686
Yeah, I am an American, and apparently whatever shit country you're from doesn't seem to have any taste, probably because you live in a depressing European dirtland which is slowly getting raped by muslims and turning into a caliphate.
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>>384301801
Skyrim's combat is the strongest in the series despite being floaty, but since it's a slasher and not an RPG, the game has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Morrowind is great because of it's story and level design. Oblivion is good because of it's quests. Skyrim is shit in every single thing imaginable.
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>>384301801
there is a chance to miss, it's called bad aim, that's how it should function in first person. maybe add some swing spread or something, but when your weapon clearly connects in first person, it's counter-intuitive for the game to go "miss"
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>>384301091
>>384301170
>>384301585
I legit don't know if you could samefag harder or more blatantly
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Guys help me out, I've just started to try and get into Morrowind, I think I fucked myself out of an early quest to do with some tax collector guy and I'm fine with that, but there is this black assassin that spawns whenever I rest outside of town that is absolutely wrecking my shit, is there any way to cheese this guy when you're a bow wielding character? 10 iron arrows that actually connect with him and show him taking damage aren't enough to take him down and he can rape my face before I can get any more off, adding to a fuck ton of arrows missing him even if I'm right in front of him.
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>>384301946
> Yeah, I am an American
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>>384281492
I grew up with oblivion on 360. I still like it way more than skyrim, I can't even play skyrim modded. One day I might even play modded oblivion
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Bland generic setting. Dunmer are objectively the best culture in TES.
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>>384302051
>haha someone agrees with you, samefag! samefag! haha I'm gay haha xD
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>>384301801
>>384301919
>>384301930
>>384301946
>>384302051
Nevermind, I guess you found a way
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>>384302059
It's one of the few things Bethesda didn't patch out, because they are lazy fucks. Assassin comes to start the Tribunal expansion, which is designed for characters who are at least level 30+.

Since you are asking retarded questions, not gonna offer you installing a simple mod, but simply turn off Tribunal in the launcher. Turn it on when you get experienced in the vanilla game.
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>>384302059
Thats a result of one of the expansion packs. If you are new id reccomend starting with out the expansions installed, and then installing them once you have leveled up and/or already completed the base game.

If you know what you are doing its not hard to quickly get powerful enough to kill him and then he drops his good armor and gear which is a boon early on. But you dont know what you are doing so either get gud or just disable the expansions.
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>>384302059
Get the Dark Brotherhood mod. The assassin is meant to spawn when you're a certain level, but doesn't for some silly reason. The mod delays the assassin attacks until you start the expansion quest yourself.
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>>384301919
>(both easily fixable issues)
properly placing static level enemies in every single dungeon and world location, placing items of value in specific spots around the world and making this all follow a constistent difficulty progression is not "easily fixable". this is the shit that comes with level scaling.
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>>384302253
>everyone who disagrees with me is samefagging!
Bait harder nigguh
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>>384302096
>implying being an American is a bad thing
So how does muhammed's dick taste?
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>>384294468
missing by dice roll makes no sense in a 3d first person RPG and neither does dice roll blocking
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>>384301585
looks pretty good to me friend
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>>384302495
Friendly reminder that America is only ~40% white. Adjusted for latinos pretending like they are not shitskins, only 1\4 of US are humans.
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>>384302682
>40%
>1/4
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I absolutely adored dice roll combat in morrowind, nothing shows might better than "my numbers are better than yours".
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>>384302682
Except the shitskins here are just tiny brown gnomes that do manual labor for white people, whereas the shitskins in Europe are actually taking over the landmass.
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>>384295228
Less generic NPCs
Better Sounds
Animated Morrowind
some kind of mod that makes wild life less aggressive
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>>384302767
To be fair, he said "adjusted for latinos", but he's still way off.
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>>384302505
>missing by dice roll makes no sense in a 3d first person RPG
missing by dice roll doesn't make sense in any fucking game with graphics. if you see a sword connect with a man it doesn't make more sense that it missed if you're seeing it from a first, second, third or whatever fucking perspective.

but it is still better than slashing at a half-naked bandit thirty times without him dying. bethesda needs to actually make a fucking combat system for this series with dodging and shit. as it is now it is literally just clicking.
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>>384281492
Oblivions OST was fucking God tier, idk what you're smoking
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>>384289713
No they didn't. They slightly improved it so that, as far as I can figure, it's a two stage system. The further you are from sanctuary the higher the enemies level. But a second system is in place that makes it so that the further away you are the more likely you are to run across an enemy leveled to your current level. Far enough out, (usually past Boston) everything becomes leveled to match yours.
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Morrowwind showed them that dumbing down the systems and not having anything behind minor ambitions would make you a ton of money.
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>>384300824
daggerfall isn't a giant turd with a small diamond in it, but otherwise this image is accurate
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>>384281492
It didn't. Virtually all of these"points" are wrong. Lol, music, Morrowind had about 5 tracks, combat and overworld, that's about it, it never changed, even in dungeons. "World design", because the flat brown shit across the entire map is fine as long as you scatter some wacky le giant XD mushrooms across the place. "Quests". Nearly all of Morrowind's quests (especially guild quests) revolved around killing NPC's or fetch quests in some dwemer ruin with a retarded name, except they aren't radiant so they're good now apparently.
Morrowind does nothing better than Oblivion, nothing.
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>>384286887
At least in Oblivion there was enemy variety, not just Draugr a/b/c
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>>384303028

i agree with you but i think the fact oblivion was released the same year as dark messiah and skyrim the same year as warband make them all the more inexcusable.
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>>384303408
I agree entirely.
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>>384303218
I think that's supposed to be a diamond in the rough, anon. Or a deposit of rough diamonds.
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>>384300025
It is a surprisingly reasonable assessment, I would personally rate the world design for Morrowind a little better, and don't find the combat for either quite so bad.
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>>384299954
>It was a shitty game with terrible art dirction
you're thinking of Oblivion. Morrowind got TES' world and art perfectly. Skyrim went overboard with the stereotypical viking influence but ever that shit was better than oblivion
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>>384303408
Have some self respect and dont post that torrent of diarrhea when an anon made an actual analysis of why Morrowind is better five posts into the thread.
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>>384303213
>dumbing down the systems
ah yes, cutting down that 60,000 square mile map with 0.00000000000001% content in it to a more manageable size and removing 20 skills that quite literally had no function whatsoever sure is "dumbing it down".

making a game the size of the literal universe when you have no capability to make it interesting isn't "ambitious", it's fucking retardation.
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>>384303706
No it didn't faggot. I've said it three times and I'll say it again: Morrowond was brown mudshit. It looked fucking terrible. Take off your scratched nostalgia-goggles and see that the game looks like fucking dirt. Literally the only bad thing about Oblivion were the autistic looking faces, which Morrowind also had, but at least that added to the humor and charm of the games, whereas worthless brown environments do not.
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>>384298803
What about environment types as well? Skyrim has snow+dungeon, oblivion has Grass+Cave+Oblivion, Morrowind has loads.
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>>384303859
>Bad art adds to the humor and charm of the games
>Tells others to take off the nostalgia goggles
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>>384301946
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>>384304059
>Morrowind has loads.
Yeah, like brown, mushrooms, and uhh... uhh...
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>decide to play morrowind because all the nostalgiafags are hyping it up
>play it
>start
>decide to be an archer
>see enemy
>aim at it from a distance
>even though I clearly hit it, it says I missed and does no damage
>starts coming for me
>miss
>miss
>miss
>mfw nostalgiafags say it's a masterpiece
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>>384303859
>looking at generic semi-fantasy forest landscape #1521385 is preferable to looking at something at least slightly unique because it has a higher polygon count

to each his own, right?
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>>384304097
I always find it strange whenever somebody uses being American as an insult, as if not living in a shitty European country filled with retards and muslims is somehow a bad thing.
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>>384298803
Thank Talos for mods. Bless those souls. Makes Skyrim fun again
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>>384301780
khajiit are elves. They are another race of elf cursed by azura, she cursed them because they were a bunch of druggy degenerates.
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Oblivion had the weirdest design priorities. Every dungeon was designed by one guy. Like, all 90 or so. And designers wrote quest stories and dialogues, wih little to no specialization around the house. Just a strange method.
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>>384300318
use atronach birthsign and make like a 5 second summon ancestral spirit spell christ its not hard you shitters.
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>>384303859
>Literally the only bad thing about Oblivion were the autistic looking faces

and the puke green color schemes
and the steamy shit bloom
and the gaywad paper mache armors
and the identical white ruins that make no sense absolutely everywhere


you defend this.
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>>384281492
>Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?
they wanted to get more $$$
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>>384304160
>to each his own, right?
Nice falseflag faggot. When did I ever say anything about poly count? I said Morrowind looked like brown shit, because it does. I'd rather look at an endless sea of green forest than Morrowind's depressing bleak environments any day, and that's not even accounting for the fact that Oblivion has forests, valleys, babbling brooks, snowy mountains, barren drylands, dark caves, tons of different environments.
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>>384304282
it's best not to think about the thought process of inferior nations
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>>384304129
Go back to playing your porn game (you)
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>>384304282
I always find it funny that americans get upset all the same, and their cluelessnes about the rest of the world.
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>>384304467
>green grass, loom and white ruins in a classical fantasy setting look terrible, but an entire map filled with nothing but brown dirt and brown mushrooms looks better
Imagine being this gay.
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>>384304356
>Every dungeon was designed by one guy. Like, all 90 or so.

not too surprised by this; might as well dedicate one guy to it who can get real good at it instead of ten people who all have to learn the intricacies of the development tool. making 90 dungeons over 5 years or whatever the dev time was doesn't sound unreasonable either.
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>>384304282
But America is probably the most multicultural country in the world, and has some of the worst education and healthcare in the 1st world.
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>>384304709

they do

>classical fantasy

garbage
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>>384304685
>I always find it funny that americans get upset all the same
Who here is getting upset other than the Euro-manlets that are using someone's nationality as a means to deride their opinion?

> and their cluelessnes about the rest of the world
Lmfao good one Fabio, enjoy your future as the Holy Muslim Empire.
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>people call this fake, awfully textured landscape with flora that sticks out like a sore thumb "comfy"
>those same people will talk shit on morrowind AND skyrim
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>>384305049
That looks comfy though
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>>384305049
Would look much better if it was all snow and zombie nords right?
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Morrowind has some of the worst combat I have ever seen in video games.
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>>384304481
and morrowind has marshland, plains, jungle, volcanoes, islands, dark caves, valleys, mountains, tundras, tons of different environments.

and hey, in morrowind they actually employed fantastical elements and didn't all just look like a shit rendition of real life!
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>>384303859
>Morrowond was brown mudshit. It looked fucking terrible
get out of here you ritalin hooked faggot. If you want an over saturated and clipping colour gamut go back to Oblivion.
Morrowind's designs are fantastic and fit the setting brilliantly.
The 3d art is below par for the times but the designs themselves are far more imaginative and vibrant than anything else that actually made it into a later TES game.
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>>384305173
nobody who likes the game would disagree with that statement.

fortunately you can ignore the combat mechanics entierly and graduate to one shotting everything if you know how to start properly
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>>384281492
The fuck? Morrowinds main quest was terrible compared to Oblivions. I mean sure it had it's moments but "here go gain the favor of these 20 tribes and all the great houses" shit was terrible.
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>>384305124

it would look better if the trees weren't on a completely different color palette and the texture for the ground wasn't a muddy light green mat

you know what it reminds me of? Operation Flashpoint, a game from five years earlier, but OFP actually used it's ground texture better because the vegetation was given similar tones and gamma.
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>>384305258
>and morrowind has marshland, plains, jungle, volcanoes, islands, dark caves, valleys, mountains, tundras, tons of different environments.
And guess what? They're all fucking brown.

> in morrowind they actually employed fantastical elements and didn't all just look like a shit rendition of real life
You're right, it just looked like shit.
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>>384305269
The art design of everything in Morrowind is fucking incredible. All the equipment types, enemy types are so memorable and unique.
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>>384305269
>he thinks that faggot looking shit is "fantastic design"
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>>384283958
I'm almost 24, and I had the most memorable moments from that one out of all the TES games, but I still have to agree Morrowind is better. I don't know what to think of with Skyrim, to be honest. Its shallower, and instead of stereotypical rolling greens hills and forests, it's pinewoods and mountains Viking Land. Side quests were way worse. One of the few things I like more about it is that I don't run into bandits full-clad in Glass armor.
>>384301262
This.
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>>384301585
Thought it was a FONV screen shot lol
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>>384281492
I LOVE Oblivion's leveling. Difficulty scaling is based on the knowledge that you learn with time passing instead of fixed hurdles that a retard can jump over with enough grinding.

>The further you get in the game the harder it gets.
>This is a bad thing.

You want a problem with the games' scaling? Mankar Cameron, the de facto final boss, can be killed with one hit with the right triple potency potion, and was a joke.
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>>384305440
And yet both still manage to look more interesting than Skyrim
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>>384304709
>classical fantasy
read a single book series in TES and tell me that TES is classical fantasy
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>>384305463
>You're right, it just looked like shit.
the graphics in both oblivion and morrowind look like shit in 2017. however, the designs in morrowind are actually interesting and not copypasted from real life, which elevates them from shit to some level of appeal while oblivion will just keep looking shittier with each passing year.
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>>384305820
>reading video game books
Stop right there faggot.
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>>384305876
>the designs in morrowind are actually interesting
No, they aren't. The towns are a bunch of giant brown mud lumbs and the world is composed of giant brown fields, brown mushrooms and brown swirly plants. Show me the most "interesting" picture of Morrowind you can find right now.
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>>384305765

not really

shitty blue filter aside Skyrim has the most accomplished visual consistency and natural look to it's environment, morrowind stands out for being interesting and unique, oblivion just doesn't do anything special, or good.
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>>384285315
I followed this advice and it was the worst thing I ever did. I almost ended up despising Morrowind because of twats like these.
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>>384305697
Boy I sure love having to take 2 minutes to kill a rat at level 20.
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>>384306073

Morrowind does actual fantasy, Skyrim does realistic, natural and "comfy", Oblivion does puke green renaissance fair backdrops.
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>>384298803
Why do Morrowbabies brag about how much weapons and choices they have when the combat was indisputably awful? Congratulations on all those equips! Too bad the reason for having them is a joke.
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>>384305697
>Difficulty scaling is based on the knowledge that you learn with time passing

there is nothing to learn about oblivion's combat. nothing. if you're at a level where you could defeat at enemy in oblivion (which is any level, because of the scaling) then a literal retard could do it just as well as you because there is NOTHING to the combat. no finesse, no technique, nothing.
>>
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>>384306229
>Oblivion does puke green renaissance fair backdrops
Why does this faggot keep saying this? Do you spend so little time outside that you don't know what color grass is? Is your vomit the color of grass? Jesus you sound like such a fucking dyke, just shut up.
>>
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>>384306279
>>
>>384306073
Yeah, that's fair, I'm just salty about the fact that Skyrim is the most popular when it's easily the worst in every respect other than graphics.
>>
>>384306096
What, playing without mods?
>>
>>384306372
>"no finesse, no technique, nothing."
>click
>miss
>miss
>miss
>hit
>miss
>miss
>miss
>miss
>miss
Wow, Morrowind sure does require a lot of finesse and technique
>>
>>384303859
>I've said it three times and I'll say it again

>I've said it 3 times
>but I'm not samefagging
Fuck off, your opinion is valid subjectively but most people disagree with you
>>
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>>384306030
i just picked one of the google search results, since more isn't needed.

this once screenshot is more visually interesting than the entirety of oblivion. why? because this doesn't look like something i've seen a thousand times already.
>>
>>384304709
>identical looking copy pasted ugly ayleid ruins
>identical looking copy pasted cave interiors
>identical looking copy pasted ugly oblivion realms
>an entire overworld of the same-y same forests
>literally no other color palettes or interior types

Let's be honest with ourselves here, oblivion looks just as terrible as morrowind when considering palette variety
>>
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>>384306402
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>>384306539
i wasn't playing advocate for morrowind's combat system since it is ostensibly the same thing, but whatever makes you feel better about how shit the combat in oblivion is.
>>
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>>384306653
>Fuck off, your opinion is valid subjectively but most people disagree with you
I've said that three different times to what I presume are three different anons during the course of that thread. Only in your autistic mind does that mean that every single post that doesn't agree with you is me, and "most people" actually don't disagree. You seriously could not sound like any more of a faggot.
>>
>>384306375

grass tends to look more yellow and drab when it's under direct sunlight, problem is oblivion always has this clear white colored lightning and terrible bloom that looks like a football stadium instead of outdoors
>>
>>384306432
>Skyrim is the most popular when it's easily the worst in every respect other than graphics.
Vanilla Skyrim is better than vanilla oblivion. The only thing Oblivion excelled at was some of the quest writing. Skyrim had a ton of flaws but Oblivion had more and they went deeper.
>>
>>384281492
Microsoft
That and the "requirement" for full voice acting and dynamic scripted NPC lives.
>>
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>>384281492
>>
>>384306218
>dawn/duskfang, weaken resistance to fire/frost, poisons, and summoning friendly daedra

I hate to use appeal to skill but...YOU SUCK
>>
>>384306963
>at dusk, when the sun is washed in yellow light, it looks more yellow
Who'dda thunk?
>>
>>384307080

what's more important to point out is that skyrim is more popular in consoles

oblivion, played in console is not only shit but unfixable shit
>>
>>384307080
Skyrim may not have as many flaws as Oblivion but none of the positives. If Oblivion is a rough gem, Skyrim is a polished turd.
>>
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What's going on in here? There seems to be an awful lot of negativity surrounding my games here?
>>
>>384306680
That...
That looks like total shit.
>>
>>384281492
A combination of needing to make money (hence the generic European fantasy setting and the famous VAs) as well as shooting for the stars and failing (such as the radiant AI)
>>
>>384284146
they're minerals
>>
>>384307080
>Vanilla Skyrim is better than vanilla oblivion.

but what is actually "good" about skyrim? oblivion has some fun quests at least. what, in regards to gameplay, does skyrim have that is "good"?
>>
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>>384307193

not that different during the middle of the day
>>
>>384307109
DOOM and Dagerfall are nice
>>
>>384281492
Todd was part of a three-man team during Morrowind. If you check the credits over half the staff changed between Morrowind and Oblivion, and even that overlooks thinks like Kirkbride leaving.
>>
>>384281492
Because it wasn't your first elder scrolls game.
>>
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>>384306030
Vvardenfell is an island volcano who's air is thick with cursed ash. Of course it will be brown and muddy.
The designs are interesting because they illustrate how both the native dunmer and the foreigners deal with the setting and it's climate differently.
>>
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>>384307334
Oh wow, look, it looks like the green grass in Oblivion.
>>
>>384307292
where's your argument though?
>>
>>384307351
Doom was made by idsoft friend
>>
>>384307351
explain what is good about daggerfall please.
>>
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>>384307410
>Vvardenfell is an island volcano who's air is thick with cursed ash. Of course it will be brown and muddy.
Except the whole fucking game is brown and muddy.

>>384307491
Let's see, the environment is composed of fucking drab and brown mounds of dirt, and everything else is piss yellow with dinosaur-skin texture.
>>
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>>384307460

nah, this still looks weirdly blueish and murky
>>
>>384306680
I can't believe you unironically thought this was good.
>>
>>384307620
the dungeons are actual dungeons
>>
>>384307256
The only thing I would give Oblivion an ace on is quest writing.

>Art design (since graphics can't be compared)
Skyrim
>Leveling system
Skyrim
>Magic system
Skyrim
>unique gimmick
Skyrim personally but I guess some people might like oblivion gates more than dragons
>legendary items
Skyrim
>enchanting
Skyrim
>gear system
Skyrim

And that's completely ignoring Oblivion HUGELY flawed levelled monster system.

I'll give you that Oblivion crushes quest writing and Skyrim only wins each category by like a point but overall it's a better game. There might be a day of pick up Skyrim again and I'll definitely pick up Morrowind again. I doubt I'll ever pick up oblivion again, there just isn't a reason to with the morrowind/Skyrim existing.
>>
>>384307728

just look at those fucking shrubs, was it that hard to make them a closer color?
>>
>>384307728
>puke green
>weirdly blueish
Do you have trouble describing colors? Why are all of your description so shit and inaccurate? Colorblindness?
>>
>>384307803
you should probably learn to read before you start talking through text.

morrowind and oblivion both look like shit today.

HOWEVER

morrowind has interesting and unique art direction while oblivion does not. this makes morrowind look more interesting.

if you still don't understand then i'm sorry, i unfortunately won't be able to explain it in simpler terms.
>>
>>384307728
>g-grass isn't bright green, it's like, like yellowish!
>>
>>384307157
>against a fucking rat
>>
>>384308115
That's a golf course you moron.
>>
>>384307331
>but what is actually "good" about skyrim? oblivion has some fun quests at least. what, in regards to gameplay, does skyrim have that is "good"?
I agree that it does nothing incredibly well, see
>>384307994

which is my thought process
>>
>>384308115

you're saying that's natural countryside?

>>384308070

the texture tiles are puke green, the shrubs and trees are dark and green, they don't go together at all
>>
>>384307849
strange. did they overhaul the entire game in 2017 or something? last time i played it the dungeons were a bunch of interconnected rooms with no sense of cohesion, direction or thought behind them and their size was nothing but a detriment with the beyond-awful ingame map.
>>
>>384308205
>That's a golf course you moron.
You don't get to call anyone a moron, you're the supremely retarded individual making the argument that grass isn't chlorophyll green. What fucking difference does it make? You just cherrypicked images of late-day sun hitting grass so you could pretend that grass is yellowish. Either you are actually so retarded that you don't know what grass looks like, or you're trying to save the sinking ship that is your argument.
>>
>>384308440

here's natural grown grass.
>>
>>384308115
>>384307728
the base of the shrubs have a hue of ~120
the grass of the golf course has a hue of ~90
oblivion's grass is unnaturally blue
>>
>>384308558
>here's natural grown grass.
Oh look, in the spots where it isn't dry from horse piss and lack of rain, it's fucking green. Imagine that.
>>
>>384281492
Because they were actually desperate when creating Morrowind.
They were confident when making Oblivion and this has been Bethesda's downfall ever since.
>>
>>384308078
All you showed was more of the same shit, except with horrid armor designs. YOU unironically thought it was a good idea to show that image which fits all the bad descriptors which has been established by the other anon. It's a joke, try again and find a better image.
>>
both oblivion and skyrim are shit, but oblivion's flaws can be corrected by mods (combat, unique dungeons, etc) while skyrims flaws are irredeemable (writing)
>>
>>384308679

it's fucking green in a less saturated, warmer color than the garish shit Oblivion has
>>
>>384308558
look at the variety of hues and tones in that grass
>>384308679
the hue of that grass varies from 60-90
>>
>>384308727
you're still not presenting an argument.
>>
>>384308363
>the interior design of these dungeons are awful! completely unergonomic!
No shit retard, its a dungeon.
>>
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>>384307292
>>384307803
>bitches about the color palette, while ignoring the far superior designs

Morrowind is brown and Oblivion is green. Not much difference, really.
>>
>>384308831
>it's fucking green in a less saturated, warmer color than the garish shit Oblivion has
Lol alright, at this point, I'm sitting here arguing with a retard about the color of grass. If you want to think that Oblivion somehow looks outlandish because it has fucking grass, be my guest. At the end of the day, you're just a shitbird clinging to shit.
>>
>>384308679
You do realize there are different types of grass that are different colors right anon? You do realize that the conditions they grow in, as well as what is in the soil can change the way they look, right anon?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaceae
>>
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>run indoors
>swords fly everywhere
#justoblivionthings
>>
also the color and intensity of the light affects the grass, Oblivion isn't always sunny but the grass is always really intense and off putting

>>384308996
>If you want to think that Oblivion somehow looks outlandish because it has fucking grass, be my guest. At the end of the day, you're just a shitbird clinging to shit.

compared to someone claiming morrowind is always brown and grey while cherry picking images from a literal volcano
>>
>>384308974
>bitches about the color palette, while ignoring the far superior designs
Sorry but piss-yellow armor with dinosaur-skin textures is not "far superior design", it looks fucking retarded.
>>
>>384308874
Your image didn't represent anything new to continue a discussion.
>>
>play oblivion
>see bandits running around in supposedly rare glass armor

And that's when I uninstalled
>>
>>384281492
God I fucking hate these image things, so cringey.
>>
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>>384309121
You can say that, and I can say that Oblivion looks like sickly green plastic.
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>>384309121
Morrowind shows how the people living their use the natural resources and their cultural heritage to design tools and equipment that are up to date with the modern technology.
They use hollowed out mega fauna for public transport to traverse swamps, they live in the shells of dead crabs and use disease resistant slaves to farm in dangerous conditions so that they can eat food and sell rare materials to the empire.
>>
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It helps to take a step back and think about what the fuck you are doing. Aren't you people tired of arguing about minute details in the color palette. I'm feeling tired just looking at this fucking mess of a "debate".
>>
>>384281492
>oblivion music worse
???
excuse me fucker?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpJEg6MTPzc
are you serious?
>>
>>384309708

snorefest
>>
>>384309708
That's a matter of taste. What is more debatable is the usage of the music. Both games feature overworld music, battle music, and cutscene music. And that's it.
>>
Oblivion made me feel like I was exploring, Skyrim made me feel like I was in a theme park
>>
>>384309212
i guess you're right about the discussion being over since you can't present any evidence to reinforce your own way of thinking which means that i, the one who does have evidence to back my statements up, has ended the argument with a win.
>>
>>384309847
Now that I think about it, Oblivion had creepy dungeon music, so points to Oblivion.
>>
>>384281492
lord of the rings ruined Oblivion
>>
>>384310018
Morrowind's main theme simulates the beating of a heart, which not only sounds good but is also thematically consistent with the rest of the game, so points to Morrowind
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>>384310103
I will never forgive him for Oblivion and the Hobbit movies

>>384310231
Yes that is a nice attention to detail. Also the main theme is so good that it became the TES theme.
>>
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>mfw I see the level of discussion in this thread
>>
>>384307687
>Except the whole fucking game is brown and muddy.
And the whole game takes place on Vvardenfell, so what's your point?
>>
>>384310016
>the one who does have evidence to back my statements up
Your "evidence" works against you. Hence providing zero new things to discuss.
>>
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>>384310584
No comfy TES thread, just shitflinging. I feel burnt out.
>>
>>384281492
oblivion's side quests were 10/10 for me
>>
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What's your favourite region of Vvardenfell?

I'm partial to the Grazelands despite being a Redoran fan. Nothing is comfier than hanging out in a nice ashlander tent during an ash storm though.
>>
trying to play morrowind for the first and I get errors like this when patching it with Timeslip's .exe Optimizer. Is this normal? Do I even really need this patch?
>>
>>384310892
W E S T
G A S H
>>
>>384311038
I don't even know what that is. An optimiser is arguably not necessary, if you have issues with the regular game you should try out OpenMW.
>>
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>>384310892
It's actually the Ashlands. Especially the region north of Red Mountain. The Urshilalalkukusomething Burial Caverns is the best dungeon in the game. I just like how the ashstorms can make it so serene in one moment, and so brutal the next.
>>
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>>384311232
>tfw you'll never sleep comfortably in an urshilaku tent during an ashstorm
>>
>>384283617
>An alright game in its own right, but watered down to such a point it couldn't be considered a fallout game anymore.
This is pretty accurate. Oblivion isn't bad by any means but the stuff that people liked in Morrowind is a lot worse, e.g. world building in Oblivion is pretty bad
>>
>>384295228
Everything people said plus Tamriel Rebuilt!

Tamriel Rebuilt is number one you should download.
>>
I just want morrowind multiplayer to be at least 75% done damnit
>>
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>>384311715
It's basically just synching NPCs and scripts by now, right?
MP in Morrowind will be an unbalanced shitfest, and it will be glorious.
>>
>>384286262
Yes, he was the emperor for all of 15 minutes
>>
>>384311871
>game is filled with gods who abused alchemy to give themselves ridiculous stats, all fighting each other
>>
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Tamriel Rebuilt is fine.
>>
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>>384312318
Feels good being Redoran.
>>
>>384310881
This is going to be a controversial opinion, but I think that Morrowind has by far the best quests of the TES series.

Oblivion and Skyrim quests are all coded in a very linear fashion, flag this objective, now flag this objective. There is absolutely 0 complexity to most quests in both games.

In Morrowind, there are ridiculous solutions to even basic quests. If it's a fetch quest you can accomplish it by getting the item by any means imaginable rather than the method the quest giver wants. Hell, I bought most of the items for the Thieves' Guild quests. It's the only TES game where quest giving NPCs will actually refrain from giving you fetch quests out of respect for your position. There are innumerable paths through the main quest line, including just going straight to the Heart and destroying it. I love that you can avoid the stupid political quests to become Hortator if your reputation and level are high enough. It's the only TES game with a handcrafted world AND that level of freedom.
>>
>>384281492
All of the Elder Scrolls games have clung to RPG mechanics that don't actually contribute to fun gameplay and in fact detract from it. Every new iteration of the series sheds some of this baggage, but also sheds a lot of the stuff that made the series stand out in a positive way. The result is that the games get progressively more accessible and comfortable while also getting progressively less immersive and interesting.
>>
Why did they drop spears and halberds? Can Bethesda not handle reach weapons? The number of weapon types in each game getting cut is appalling, its hard to RP anything properly because the the weapon selection lends itself to so few kinds of characters.
>>
>>384310892

Grazelands too

it's this warm, fuzzy praire that feels like a welcome change from the rest of the island
>>
>>384311871

honestly never knew why they didn't make SOME form of online for TES apart from that MMO

something limited like an arena where you make a character, buy gear and then go fight, or co-op dungeon diving.
>>
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>>384313090
What I wish is that they make each weapon feel different in the next one. Maces, daggers, spears, swords, clubs, are all the same. Swing a sword at plate armor, and it should just glance off. But a sword deals as much damage as a mace. There's no system that forces the player to bring different tools for different situations.
>>
>>384281492
name one singleplayer RPG with good first person combat.
>>
>>384314696
Dark Messiah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4s8LTCz824
>>
>>384313090

making animation is too hard for Bethesda

also if you didn't notice they cut weapons that had thrust attacks only and only gave swings to weapons that should be able to thrust, i think it's because they can't code the collision to show them properly without just cliping through enemies.
>>
>>384314662
That would be a lot of work for both the devs and the players. Devs want a system where most different weapon types are just reskins of the same base weapon, and are only differentiated by appearance and the effect of various perks/skills on the weapon's damage output. Most players want a weapon system where they can pick a weapon that think looks cool and fits their character, then never have to think about it again beyond occasionally upgrading to a better version. Weapons that actually function differently and need to be swapped out for different situations likely wouldn't be something enough customers care about to justify the effort that would go into making it happen.
>>
>>384301585
It's unbelievable to me that anyone can seriously try to appraise a game based on it's graphics and graphics alone. Have you even played Morrowind you stupid nigger?
>>
What's everyone's favorite song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B3nkImD0Q4
>>
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>>384281492
>Why did Oblivion turn out so much worse than Morrowind?
Because it was at the peak of the damage that the Xbox 360 was causing for gaming. Microsoft was throwing around HUGE amounts of money and Bethesda wanted a piece of the pie.

However, they knew that Morrowind on Xbox (the first xbox) didn't go that well, so changes had to be made....

Enter the console era.

TESIV was just one of many victims of those dark, normie times.
>>
>>384301585
>first ever real 3d RPG with huge open world
>graphics were limited due to majority of pcs at the time
>still looks pretty good for a 2002 game
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>>384283643
>None of you have ever fucking played murruhwind it so stop larping.
I played several hundred (likely thousand, this was pre-steam dominance) hours of Morrowind when it was the latest TES. Suck my jagon. Oblivion is garbage.
>>
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>>384315465
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb5AYioPGM&index=19&list=PL4BFF9D1A531D61ED
>They have taken you from the Imperial City's prison
>>
>>384304059
Snow, dungeon, snowless tundra, swamp, robo-dungeon, underworld mushroom kingdom, evergreen forest, autumnal forest. Hot springs/hydrothermal vents.
>>
>>384286887
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/3058/?
Greatest mod in the world
>>
>>384315640
>first ever real 3d RPG with huge open world
>What is Daggerfall
>>
>>384301585
>it has to be vibrantly colourful to have an art direction
Truly you know nothing about art.
>>
>>384315696
did you use a mod or did you spend hours upon hours trying to place objects in the most appropriate position possible?
>>
>>384315865
and I forgot the Ozark mountains complete with witchdoctor hill-billies.
>>
>>384315465
I haven't listened to Morrowind music in years, jesus christ what a good soundtrack
>>
>>384315924
didn't daggerfall have sprites instead of 3d models for characters ?
>>
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>>384316067
I placed things where I thought they looked aesthetic. It didn't really take that long because Morrowind's item placement wasn't complete garbage like Skyrim and Oblivion.

Here's my downstairs storage room.

Actually now that you mention it, that is one of the things I hated most about Oblivion and Skyrim. The retarded item placement, making house decoration virtually impossible without placing thing in using the construction set.

Huge part of the gameplay taken out that no one talks about.
>>
>>384298906

>having to do a fuck ton of things before you can play the game sure is fun

Why do I see Oblivion fags raise this complaint against Morrowind, but never Baldur's Gate?
>>
>>384314662
>>384315273

it wouldn't be that difficult.

i think weapons should have two kinds of damage: cutting and trauma

depending on the kind of weapon, the strikes would deal more or less from each. a sword would be heavy on the cutting but still deal a tiny bit of trauma so you can knock down someone by whacking him with a sword if they're weak enough, while a mace might eventually do cutting damage by tearing.

each would have their own special effects, the cutting would create lingering damage due to blood loss(depending on the enemy), while the trauma would have a chance of crushing bones and incapacitating, or knocking enemies out cold.


on top of this, there would be two kinds of attack, swing and thrust. Swing would be your common attack while thrust would do less regular damage but have a higher critical strike chance, and also consume less stamina.

also since swings cover an area you can deliver damage to multiple enemies with it.
>>
>>384316194
You still explored a 3D world, Morrowind was probably the first hand crafted 3D open world game but it was not the first 3D open world game. As a matter of fact XnGine was one of the first true 3D engines.
>>
>>384316587
Fair enough, i was talking in more of an entire 3d game though. But i get where you're coming from.
>>
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>>384316352

ALSO, armor would give you a minimum threshold of damage below which no hits cause any damage, however they will slowly degrade it's condition.

if some punk swings at you with 5 cutting damage, 3 trauma damage, and your armor is rated to 15 of both you'll laugh it off while clinking noises play. now, if it's a monster that does 10 cutting damage but 30 trauma damage you're gonna get trashed around, and your armor won't stop cuts so good after it a few hits.

now if you feel like being even more autistic, you could have each armor have a coverage rating, going from 1 being an armored bikini and 100 being a walking tank, with your agility attribute calculating how likely it is to actually catch the blows

if you're a fucking acrobat you could actually fight with a chainmail thong, just because.
>>
>>384316008
He's an oblivion fan, his tastes are shallow
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4-9G47uF0
>>
>>384283169
>-game designed to ape popular fantasy of the time(Lord of the Rings) while shedding a substantial amount of TES's own identity for very generic medieval fantasy

The entire series besides Morrowind and maybe bits of Arena is generic fantasy, Daggerfall is pretty Tolkien outside of the Daedric Princes and some stuff related to the main quest of Daggerfall.
>>
>>384318016

those games were the actual medieval fantasy ones and only superficially, Cyrodil was much, much different as described in the lore.

Redguard was very unique too.
>>
>>384317375
That's exactly how Fallout 1 and 2's armor system works, although without the coverage rating thing.
>>
>>384302059
just pick a melee weapon that you have the highest skill with, he's not that hard to juke out and stab to death.
>>
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>So Morrowind Patch Project has a notorious history of changing things in the game in an attempt to "balance" it. Personally, I don't think they should be changing this stuff because the idea is to PATCH BUGS AND BROKEN QUESTS not rebalance the game. (you hear that Quran? Stop doing it.) This patch aims to reverse these "balancing" changes.

Morrowind Patch Project 1.6.6 - Stupid Changes Fix

So I found this. It's my first time playing morrowind, I don't want to fucked it up. Why do you guys keep recommending the patch project if the creator keeps changing stuff instead of patching bugs? Also, this fix is from october so the guy hasn't fixed all the modified content of the patch project has introduced.
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>>384318016
>Skyrim
>Generic fantasy
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>>384316318
I bet your bedroom isn't this clean.
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>>384300937
You literally have no friends and dont get invited to parties but youre still a casual
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>>384319701
Underrated post.
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I miss the emperor crabs
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>>384314826
that looks like any first person rpg, albeit with significantly more fancy animations.
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>>384318286
It was, outside of Blackreach which was "Remember Morrowind? It was a good game": The area
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>>384318370
It's actually way cleaner.




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