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why don't more vidya companies sue cheaters? they ruin the reputation of the game, ruin the enjoyment of other players, and hurt sales. every cheater should be publicly outed and sued by the dev. people who played with the cheater should be informed so they can sue the cheater as well.
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>>393171084
>go to subway
>order a BLT sandwich
>ask them to hold the lettuce because you don't like lettuce
>sandwich artist says it comes with lettuce and refuses to remove it
>pay for your sandwich
>sit down
>remove the lettuce from your sandwich and start eating it
>sandwich artist comes running up
>PUT THE LETTUCE BACK ON THE SANDWICH IMMEDIATELY
>tell him to fuck off
>leave
>a week later
>knock on the door
>you get served with a lawsuit filing

that's how retarded you sound like right now. if you buy a product, it's you right to modify it as you see fit
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>>393171084
It's typically a lost cause to do so, as they usually either don't get money or the defendant plays for time until red tape drowns the case to oblivion.
Stuff like that is just a scare tactic to stop people from fucking around since Battle Royale is free, so banning accounts doesn't often stop all of the cheaters. Having the threat of a lawsuit brought down on you, however middling it would be, is enough to scare the typical cheater.
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>>393171298

You do not have a right to cheat in a multiplayer game. Fuck off.
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>>393171084

Fuck cheaters
>>
>Copyright infringement
Kek want to see that stand up in court. There are no laws against cheating in a game. Sueing over piracy is something they'll have to get lucky with to prove.
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>>393171298
>Food analogy
>On top of being wrong
Really nigga?
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>>393171367
yes you do.
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>>393171298
This is horrible bait.
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>>393171084

This is a step in the right direction, but I think insufficient. What we really need is for game companies to put a hit on the cheaters. Literally just hire an assassin and have the cheater killed, in real life, physically dead. Doing that just once or twice would scare the shit out of people and send the correct message.
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>>393171367
You have a right to cheat and they have a right to ban you forever. And then its transaction over.
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>>393171298
>BLT sandwich

what?
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>>393171441

No, you don't.
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>>393171508

Bacon
Lettuce
Tomato
>>
>>393171441
See >>393171507, and then >>393171336.
>>
Hi, I am Epic Games. Whoah, the weather sure is stormy today, I guess I'll have to sue Zeus.
>>
Are they actually suing cheaters, or the cheat makers? Cus there is already precedent for suing cheat makers.
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>>393171298
These posts are my favorite
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>>393171298
lol you should screenshot this for your 'ebin bait' folder
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>>393171598
How do we define cheating? Is wavedashing in Melee or Snaking in Mario Kart DS cheating?
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>>393171298
>dis bait
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>>393171751
no cheating is using outside programs to give yourself an unfair advantage in a multiplayer game

cheating in a single player game is fine
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>>393171084
Not likely to stick
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>>393171751
When the game itself is altered to give a distinct advantage over other players, or a secondary program is used in conjunction to gain an advantage. Lawfags get onto it, I suck at drfining things properly.
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>>393171084
Modifying a game to cheat is not copyright infringement. See Nintendo v Galoob
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>>393171298
>Go to YouTube
>Watch uploaded movie that is clearly copyright infringement
>Somehow piratebay which did not even host videos are killed but YouTube survives
Wow it's almost like the ((law)) doesn't affect ((Google))
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>>393171508
>>393171569
Bread Less Tomatoe
>>
>>393172002
>>393172089
Fair enough, that's reasonably.
Are saying then that abusing infinites or clipping out of bounds falls entirely on the devs to patch out rather than ban players for using such tactics? Assuming these tactics are used entirely in the confides of the game and not aided by external programs.
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>>393172296
yes it is entierly on the devs to set the games internal rules if a glitch allows someone an unfair advantage its the devs job to fix said glitch
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>>393172296
A lot of ToS for games say exploits aren't allowed, although I forget the exact language they use to define an exploit. So they're definitely allowed to ban you.
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>>393172106
That was during the pre-dmca days
http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/news.cfm?read=42886&game=15&ismb=1
>>
Essentially the publisher is punishing their own user base that paid for and/or support their title.
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>>393171084 (OP)
>go to McDonalds
>order tendies
>ask them for szechuan sauce because its in your favorite show, Rick and Morty
>neanderthal McDonalds employee says they are all out
>pay for your tendies
>sit down take a deep breath while deciding what to do
>run up to the counter
>IM PICKLY RICK GIVE ME MY SZECHUAN SAUCE IMMEDIATELY
>he tells you to fuck off
>security kicks you out
>week later
>knock on McDonalds HQ
>serve them with a lawsuit for false advertisement

that's how intellectual you sound like right now. if you advertise a product, it's your responsibility to supply it as I see fit
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>>393172402
Yes, just like how people get rich by exploiting others, it's God's fault. Criminals exist because the devs haven't patched society.
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>>393171508
It refers to Bit blit (also written BITBLT, BIT BLT, BitBLT, Bit BLT, Bit Blt etc., which stands for bit block transfer)
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>>393172296
Assuming that not alterations are being made, and no money is actually being lost (Which can occur in sime cases), then it does fall on the developer to fix it. That said, they should also probably be ready to perform maintenance like that while also allowing players to do something else. Early Access is screwy though, and makes that a bit stranger to work with.
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>>393172480
people who get exploited bring it on themselves if people would learn to be less trusting of people they dont know people would not get exploited so easily
>>
why just sue them?

cheating lowlifes should be shot
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>>393172723
Are you telling me criminals wouldn't exist is people never trusted each other? You would go straight to Anarchy, no devs, no patches, no servers.
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>>393171298
Do they really call them "sandwich artists" in USA?
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>>393172968
That's what they're called everywhere I thought. In Subway chains only at least.
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>>393172848
no im not saying they wouldnt exist im saying dont give someone full access the minute they meet you make them show they deserve trust
>>
>sues brazilian
>gets hue'd
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>>393172968
Well they aren't cooks for making a sandwich so what else would you call them.
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>>393173051
So people should not have full access to products they buy? You prefer having your computer monitored by DRM software and your revokable licenses?
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>>393172446
Cheaters ruin the experience for others, which develops a negative reputation for the game and directly hurts sales. So no.
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>>393173110
counter assholes
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Those cheaters they are suing most likely sold their cheating tools to others using the Fortnite brand, and that can be grounds for a lawsuit.
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>>393173165
no a product you buy should obvious be yours but that doesnt give you the right to use an external program to ruin anothers experience anypart of the program left incomplete or bugged is the fault of the devs
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I really doubt it'll hold up in court. Permaban sure, but lawsuit for cheating is just silly.
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>>393173287
they are suing the ones selling them not the ones using them
>>
>it's the fault of the consumer
>not the fault of the company for not having proper servers and anti chat measures

Yes let's protect the interests of a giant company over a real person good thinking OP.
>>
Give it up, OP. Most people on /v/ won't understand, they don't even see anything wrong with screen peeking.
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>>393171298
>sandwich artist
this has to be a burger thing
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>>393173365
>it's the fault of the consumer
>not the fault of the company for not having proper alarms and anti theft measures
Yes let's protect the interests of a giant company over a real person good thinking anon.
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>>393171084
Shouldn't it be the company's duty to ensure players are not cheating in their game, not the government? And how the hell is cheating copyright infringement?
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>>393173365
>Someone steals from a store.
>It's store's fault! That person was innocent!
This is some retard-tier logic.
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>>393173517
Nah, "sandwich artist" is legit what Subway employees are called, not just in burgerland.
>>
Do you guys really think when you buy or download a program you have legal rights to modify the code?
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>>393173696
In online games, no. But if it's a single player game, damn right I do.
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I don't like it. Seems like it's setting a bad precedent that could be construed as any modification to a game can get you sued. Plus companies should be working on good cheat detection rather than lawyering up.
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>>393173696
You don't, but since the only thing that forbids it is the EULA, they normally can't take the action against you any further than by banning you in their own private domain.
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>>393173696
Only as long as you don't distribute it and don't affect others with it.
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>>393173696
Yes, because I bought it so It's my right to do whatever I please with it including changing it's name and selling copies to others
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>>393173519
>>393173565

Except for the person has paid for the right to use the software like everyone else? Where the hell are you getting theft from?

The publisher/devs have the right to ban you for cheating but anything beyond that is so ridiculous it borders on unwarranted aggression.

OP is a paid marketer trying to push stupid software rights agendaa.
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>>393173817
You typically only hack the client side of a multiplayer game. That's not any different than giving lolis in your weeb game naked textures.
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>>393173696
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I'm pretty sure it is. Most EULAs probably have clauses against it, but those are simply agreements and not laws.
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>>393173696
When you buy or download content you only get a license to use that content. How you use it should then be up to you.
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>>393173904
The solution is to not cheat. It's really not that hard.
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>>393173921
In technical jargon no, but law is more than that. You can masturbate naked in your house, but you'll get in trougle if you do it out in the streets.
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>>393172461
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>>393173818
the thing is no matter how good the cheat detection is someone will get around it same with DRM
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>>393172250
More like the judge and key people involved in the TPB case was paid off or had connections to some of the companies that sued in the first place, for example one of the policemen that was involved in the raid for TPB servers, who then got a job at warner brothers. Fun thing, apparently he is now back at the police force in sweden.

When reading up on the case I lost all fucking trust in the court system, especially since the judge was fucking proven to have a connection to a copyright group yet was not considered biased.
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>>393173904
It's not the same, but it is equivalent to the retarded argument you're trying to make. You agreed to a terms of use. You break it, you're liable for legal action depending on the wording. That's how it works.
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>>393171298
ALWAYS

FOOD
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>>393174204

And suing people won't stop cheating just like it didn't stop music piracy. It just makes your company look like cunts and forces yoy to put time and rmoney into something that isn't a game's development.
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>>393171084
>Waste money trying to sue third world trash that has no money

smart
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>>393174412
Not like your legal department develops anything other than EULAs.
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>>393174412
Except that if you don't try to defend your ip it's the same, legally speaking, as saying your shit is free to take.
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>>393174268
ToS and EULAs can and has been thrown out of court for being worth less than the time it took to read it. Fuck, wrongly worded contracts in Sweden can be immediately nulled in court for containing shit that is just not allowed, for instance trying to sign away someones legal rights. ToS and EULAs are not necessarily binding at all.
>>
Cheating is abhorrent, but it is not a matter of law.

Copyright has long stopped being used for its intended purpose, and we certainly don't need to expand it any further.

The depressing thing is, Epic fully knows the lawsuit is stupid, but just the mere act of being sued is immensely costly to the target of the lawsuit. Large companies do this all the time (And copyright is their favorite one to use, because it's such a shit show of a legal area now that just about any stupid theory could potentially win with the right judge).

>Sue person threatening $250,000 statutory damages
>Most of the time they give in to demands
>If not, go to court and win
>The target of the suit is now bankrupt due to legal fees even though they won.

Even if we hate cheaters, that's what these companies do. They pick a hated target that no one can defend and do these shitty lawsuits so that they can set precedents to further expand the authority of copyright.

It's no surprised that all of the attempts to weaken Section 230 are marketed as "protecting children from child pornographers"
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>>393174412
no it probably wont just like its never stopped much of anything

anyone have any idea why eminem a white guy is headlining the BET awards?
>>
I'm actually working on a little project that's gonna take cheating to the next level

watch this space
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>>393174025

Yeah no kidding but that doesn't justify legal action by any means.
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>multiplayer map
>manage to get on top of a building because the developers made jumping just high enough to use some crates
>DIS CHEEEEAATTTINGGGGG
>get banned

wew
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>>393173873
You don't own the games you buy, numbnuts. You purchase a license to play them.
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>>393171491
Once or twice? Nah hackers should be lined up and put into concentration camps to do hard labour. At night they are only allowed 1 hour of vidya but only 1 game, cup head on a sticky keyboard that's designed to have input latency of 150-650ms(randomised every 6 minutes) and when they finally finish it they will be allowed to leave the camp and be free.
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>>393171298
That analogy would work if it was a single player game but not a multiplayer one where cheating ruins the fun for other people, you fucking melt.
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>It's another 4chan is the ultimate authority of morality
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>>393173517

You know jerking off horses is a real job ?
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>>393174773
why do i get the feeling that thing is going to be REALLY irritating?
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>>393174963
>spineless faggot can't handle debate
>>
>>393174963
t. cheating piece of shit
>>
Cheaters deserve everything they get tbqh fagalams
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>>393174563

What the fuck are you talking about? I was using music piracy as a point of comparison that litigation doesn't stop these types of issues. No one's losing their IP because their game has cheaters.
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>>393171298
Replying to ebic b8
>>
Cheating is murder
>>
cheating is worse than dropping two bombs on an asian country
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>>393171508
Bisexual lesbian transgender sandwich.
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>>393174563

So taking someone's money they spent on your product, banning them for breaking ToS, isn't defending their IP enough?

Cases like these are simply precedents to try and limit consumer rights.

Fuck you corporate cock suckers.
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>>393171298
bruh thats pretty much rape
>>
We need publishers and developers to have more power, the sad state of the industry is that consumers will try and fuck them over as much as possible, and because we have stupid left wing government, companies are already being fucked over by the government and we don't need to have them fucked over by us as well, so I support this action, and I hope many more follow.
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>>393175283

Really makes me think
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>>393171507
Oh yes, just like you have the right to shit on the counter at Subway while someone else is paying for their food right?
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>>393173696
Gamers feel entitled to everything in their sights, so yeah.
Can't wait until they stop being catered to. They're on their way out and being replaced by a much more casual crowd.
>>
As i understand it cheating is only illegal in China and South Korea.
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>>393173110
We just call them a salesperson in my language
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>>393171508
Bread Less Takeout Sandwich. It's when they just throw all the fillings into a plastic bag and you take it home to eat it with a fork out of the bag.
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>>393175746
t. mr. lootbox
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>>393175972
Can't tell if you're pretending to be retarded or if you actually think that's what BLT means.
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>>393172296
People abusing bugs should get temp bans and the devs should also be aiming to fix them as soon as possible.
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>>393176057
ever hear of a joke you humorless cunt?
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>>393172461
McDonalds is getting sued for false advertisement. It's illegal in most states to have a limited amount of a product and not disclose the numbers.
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>>393175972
Isn't that just a fucking salad?How is it a sandwich if there's no bread?

What the fuck is up with subway and these new terms? Sandwich artist and Bread less takeout sandwich, I mean really?
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>>393171298
Except that shit only applies if it's a singleplayer game you fucking mongrel and not when it is a multiplayer game. This is how it actually is like.

>Subway offers a free for all BLT sandwich day where everybody can come in and eat free BLT sandwiches, just one per person.
>Everybody comes to their glee to enjoy the said free BLT sandwich day.
>Couple of chucklefucks found some way to teleport the bacon and lettuces within people's sandwiches by means of a matter disassembler device, ruining the fun of other people and lowering people's expectations of Subway as a company.
>They take/use Subway's bacon and lettuces, taken from other people, to make sandwiches in their own and enjoy something out of other people's expense.
>Subway finds out who these shitstains are and sues them for not only breaking what was part of the deal but what is essentially taking what was given to other people by Subway.
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>>393172723
Society only works because of trust.
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>>393176170
and here we see the amerilard
utterly confused by food but still wanting to shove it in his face
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>>393171298
>sandwich artist
this planet is not for me anymore
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>>393171298
This. Cheating is bad and they should be banned, but this is just silly.
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>>393171298
>if you buy a product, it's you right to modify it as you see fit
>buying a free to play game
Aside from the fact that nearly every game coming out now makes you agree to an EULA specifically for situations like this, you're also dumb as shit if you think you actually own any games you've bought in the last decade.
>>
>>393176196
maybe just go with the 'food analogies are not appropriate'
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>>393171084
how long till blizzard get ideas and start suing genji/hanzo mains and people who say gg
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>>393176287
this isn't just about cheating but illegally modifying something you don't have the right to modify
They're not going after stream snipers
>>
If you buy the game then you have the right to modify it as you please, that is true. However, you don't buy the online server in which you're playing and you can only use their server for as long as you follow their terms of service. They have every right to ban your account and sue you for cheating their servers.
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>>393176421
I do because Im not a pcfag.
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>>393172604
Wait if fortnite still under early access status, then they can sue cheater for disrupting development through alternating player experience and schewing the data.
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>>393176567
They've already been banning them for "griefing" so it shouldn't be too long.

I mean, how dare they use a characters that are in the game, it's not Blizzard's fault for putting obsolete characters in it without even trying to balance them.
>>
It's not copyright infringement but you retards probably don't know that. They're making an example of some scared shitlicker who cheats for whatever reason. They'll just ban him, and this will disappear in a month from the legal circuit but you have to admit it makes other morons shit their pants in fear.
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>>393178491
It makes script kiddies cower in fear and therefore hurts the guys who sell hax to kiddies income.
Anybody smart enough to program their own hax isn't going fear getting caught and sued but the kiddies with mommies credit card are
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>>393171084
>Free to play game
>Banning cheaters
Nigga you can just make a new email, you dont even need to verify it
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>>393171084
Good luck suing HUEs and Ruskies that will plague this F2P game with cheats lmao
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>>393176164
>It's illegal in most states to have a limited amount of a product
Aren't ALL products in a restaurant limited? No restaurant has unlimited amounts of food as far as I know, hell, only online software stores have non-limited amounts of products
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>>393171084
Cheating is not the same as modding
Cheating is scummy and defending it is pathetic
>>393171298
>Order a BLT
>Don't want lettuce
Are you fucking stupid?
Just don't order a fucking BLT then idiot
>>
>>393171084
Are the people that write these articles retarded? They're suing "two cheaters"? No, they're fucking not. They might be suing a cheat coder that is selling his cheat on a website.

You people are fucking stupid as fuck, holy shit.
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>>393171084
So can the PUBG developers be sued for stealing video games if Fortnite can sue for cheating?
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>>393171394
The only legal action they have is banning them from the game as the players have violated a legally binding user agreement that they probably haven't read.
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>>393171298
t. average pubg beta
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>>393173365
Literally impossible to have perfect anti-cheating and anti-pirating measures in place.
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>>393181463
>probably is a cheater himself and feels guilty
>"n-no you are retarded cheaters dindunuffin!!"
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>>393183156
what the fuck are you even talking about, retardo? you can't "sue" a cheater using an .exe he found on some internet forum. there isn't even a legal way to find out who it is. you think some autistic fatass developer has the power to get someones information from an IP? you need a court order for that. and there isn't a judge on this planet that would do such a thing.

the only people they could POSSIBLY sue are the cheat developers that sell their cheats for money, because they are profiting from modifying their game. and even then it's a long ass stretch.

please think before you post, dumbfuck redditor.
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>>393183661
So, in short, they are suing cheaters.
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>>393171553
can you outline the law that says i dont?
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>>393183730
not the end users, no. I don't think you realise how much money people make from coding cheats. a popular CSGO cheat site has around 100.000 subscribers. Their subscription plans are $20/month or like $200 lifetime, so do the math.
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>>393171298
Stealing this for the next time I'm craving (You)s
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>>393171084
Nexon did and it worked.
>Open HQ in brazil which only purpose is to sue people
>Open HQ in russia to do the same
>But get fucked by Turkish hackers now
>Also by Netherlands and Swedish hack coders and chinese bots
>>
>>393173904
>Except for the person has paid for the right to use the software like everyone else?
BATTLE ROYALE IS FREE YOU DUMB FUCK!

NOT EVEN MICROTRANSACTION EXIST YET
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>>393184570

Then that looks even worse on Epic then huh

The point still stands that legal action should be barred for what we're discussing
>>
>>393171298
Isn't this an old pasta? I remember reading something like this a few years back.
>>
So... is the game fun? The concept of PUBG doesn't sound very appealing to me but maybe is more interesting in practice than on paper, Im considering trying this shit because is free but should I even bother?
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>>393183661
>Oh look, I buy a knife and use it to hurt people
>BAAAAW BLAME THE KNIFE MAKER BAAAWW
This is you
>>
>>393171298
>Food analogy

The worst meme.
>>
>>393184749
>Then that looks even worse on Epic then huh
Making easier for autistic cheater to exploit them? Sure.
Doesn't meant they are not allowed to sue them.
>>
>>393174215
Stay mad, you are exactly like Og 2.5 million or so years ago.
And i mean it as "what else is fucking new exactly'"
>>
>>393174642
And? Let them do it, sooner or later they will succeed anyway so is not like trying to restist matters a whole lot
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>>393185137

Allowed to and establishing precedent are two entirely different things

I dislike cheaters and have never cheated in a game but it's still a terrible path to go down
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>>393186115
>I dislike cheaters and have never cheated in a game but it's still a terrible path to go down
They violated the user agreement, its their own fault.
I don't even give a shit about EPIC.

If you want to cheat in your own bought SP game, then so be it.
I want this to be the norm before MH World came out.
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>>393171298
>Food analogy

3 weeks, dungeon.
>>
>>393171084
multiplayer cheaters deserve anything they get, from a lawsuit to a ban to tripping on their own untied shoelaces and falling into the subway train tracks
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>>393186261

Then Epic will ban the player for breaking ToS end of story.

You're not even disagreeing with me you're just hung-up on the idea that acts committed in a fucking video game (i.e. not real) should be punished by very real laws
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>>393186672
They could always changed the EULA.
The story aboved might be happen because they changed the term.
Valve recently just changed EULA about streaming because too many organization complained to them

Let me correct my self, any cheater in a PUBLIC ONLINE GAME should be punished, even by jail time those people are autistic for doing it.
I don't give a shit about personal game cheating or friend lobbies, This is what the thread all about.
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>>393171298
>food analogy
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>>393172968

>Do they really call them "sandwich artists" in USA?

No? I mean unless you're going to some hipster urban cafe or Subway? I never used it or heard it used for that matter unless if some advertiser is using a buzzword.
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>>393172461
>you'll never be McDonald's security
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>>393171084
Instead of sueing cheaters people should just stop making games for the system where everyone cheats. Saves a lot of time and money.
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>>393171508
It's a typo it's supposed to be BLM, a black lives matter themed sandwich.
>>
lol i cant wait to download this shit and cheat i can finally use my fucking law degree for something instead of sitting in an office and wanting to kill myself
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>>393183957

>can you outline the law that says i dont?

Do you read the Terms of Service upon playing a multiplayer game?
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>>393187435
I agreed, they should stop making console.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxJYvxLsRY
>>
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>>393187619
>Now I can kill myself behind bars.\
Do it anon, become An Hero.
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>Be good at video games
>Get sued
The absolute state of PC gaming
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>>393187015
It's been 15 years, probably more, and people still call for police when somebody aimbots them, top fucking kek.
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>>393187902
Post 1(one) example, where someone actually got sued for being good at game.
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>>393187619

>i can finally use my fucking law degree for something

What do you specialize in particular when it comes to law?
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>>393171367
That isn't the point. They aren't being sued for cheating, they are being sued for copyright infringement. How is tampering with a copyrighted video game any different from tampering with a copyrighted sandwich?
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>>393187015

Ok then move to China you fucking retard it's already a reality there.

So what's next then, someone finds an in-game exploit and you want them fined or jailed IRL? Where does it stop? You're a fucking retard.
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>>393188095
Sharia Law
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>>393188187

So you're not a lawyer?
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>>393187625
Terms of Service and EULAs are not legally binding.
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>>393188158
>Being this buttblasted over someone sued in public online game.
>a fucking BR shit Free2play game
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>>393188091
>>393171084
How can you prove people are cheating? What if they were just really good?
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>>393188091
Not sued but there was that Overwatch player who everyone accused her of cheating to the point where she had to make a video of her playing just to prove everyone wrong.
>>
I'm surprised 4chan hasn't sued barneyfag yet.
>>
This fucking thread is full of people just reading the headline

They're not suing cheaters they're suing cheat developers

It's a copyright infringement because they modify the game's code, which is against the terms of service

pretty open and shut, you can still cheat in games it's just the people that made your cheat are liable to get sued for making it and distributing it
>>
>>393188328

>How can you prove people are cheating?

Servers uses anti-cheating software to detect cheating for the most part. While I haven't played Fortnite, I'll assume that all games are played on official EPIC servers.
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>>393188328
VAC can do this since forever, it detect third party software that running.
Also when you install Epic launcher there are agreement about that you agreed to install their Anti Cheat System Software.
It also make you agreed to Section. #10 about having your data during the play time to be used by their corporation.
I take that as they used the data to determine are you using cheat or running a new software that not currently detected by their Anti Cheat
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>>393188652

>I take that as they used the data to determine are you using cheat or running a new software that not currently detected by their Anti Cheat

That's basically how anti-cheat software works.
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>>393173283
someone that actually sounds like they know what their talking about in a sea of autistic screeching
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>>393171084
That's actually pretty interesting, has there been a precedent?
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>>393176458
Fine, but he's still right
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>>393171298
>>go to subway
>>order a BLT sandwich
>>ask them to hold the lettuce because you don't like lettuce
>>sandwich artist says it comes with lettuce and refuses to remove it
>>pay for your sandwich
stopped reading right there. At that point you simply would refuse to pay, you have no obligation to do so even in this dumb analogy. Same applies for the game here, if you want to cheat with it and they explicity say you can't then you buy a different game that allows you to cheat. That's how capitalism works, if you don't like a product/service you take your business elsewhere.
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>>393190197
The wonders of telemetry.
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>>393174983
How do i make that my career?
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>>393191521
Become a rancher




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