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Why hate?
muh speed doesn't count
>>
I play Pokémon for the Pokemon. The only ones I really liked from DP were the final forms of the starters, the gible line, and the croagunk line. The games being slow as shit just compounded that.
>>
>>34164645
2 Fire types
>>
The most garbage regional dex in the entire series. The selection of Pokémon was shit awful, so much that even gym/elite 4 teams were often garbage (especially Flint since there were only 2 fire types - including Infernape). And the majority of the new Pokémon were really bland - whether by design or type.
>>
>>34164796
This. Here's an average DP team, OP.
>Starter
>Staraptor
>Luxray
>HM Slave 1
>HM Slave 2/Gift Pokemon
>Box Legend/Gift Pokemon
Terrible speed, terrible Pokemon distribution, terrible reliance on HMs, and overall just a trash reigon are why DP STILL haven't been dethroned as the worst games overall.
People say PT fixes all these issues but throwing a Gligar in a route but making it impossible to evolve till postgame isn't really an improvement.
>>
>>34164872
XY is arguably worse.
>>
because gamefreak is a bastard man
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>>34164878
No DP is way worse than XY
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>>34164878
No, XY is definitely better than DP. The only advantage DP has over XY is a better difficulty balance and level curve, and arguably a better villain.
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>>34164645
>Why hate?
>Can't complain about legitimate problems
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>>34164878
X/Y had one of the best regional dexes in the series. It's not a great game but still better than D/P.
>>
>>34164872
You could literally make a generic region team for any game.

The HM stuff is valid but you really only needed Fly, Surf and sometimes Strength
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>>34164872
>and overall just a trash reigon

How could any region from the 2D era be more trash than Kalos and Alola, which barely qualify as regions? They're disconnected areas with no overarching design philosophy, filled with disgusting cliff textures and other game dev poop.
>>
I don't hate them, they just have a lot of annoyances like no fucking fire types. Its even more hilarious because the fire type elite 4 also has no fire types, so they must have noticed at some point and said "fuck it".
>>
>>34164796
>>34164872

t. Hoenntrash
>>
Why hate any game?
>>
>>34165002
It's funny how instead of implementing more fire types into the game they just made sure all his Pokémon know a fire move and called it a day.
>>
>>34164645
>muh speed doesn't count
Yes it fucking does.
It was its time's equivalent of the cutscenes in SM.
>>
>>34164890
>>34164918
>>34164953

I'd put DP only slightly above XY. I understand the regional dex argument but not having any incentive to replay these games makes it hard to appreciate the variety. Without ranting, lemme just say that I have a lot more respect for DP, regardless of how much it failed because it has an identity, than for XY which are still the only Pokémon games that feel absolute hollow and "just like another Pokémon mainline game" to me.
>>
>>34165027
positivity on /vp/ is a meme
>>
>>34165061
Alright I guess I can respect that.
>>
>>34164645
Beyond the fact the game is slow as shit, we've got the shittiest regional dex, first we barely got any new pokemon, a lot of them are legendaries or new evos, but none of the new evos are really available in the actual fucking game. This is the game that beats the same fucking pokemon into, you go into Mt Cornet like 4 times and it's always geodudes and zubats, and every route has bidoofs all over the place. Even the safari zone has bibarels, like come on. Too many required HMs that suck as moves, like Defog or rock climb. The shitty curve to Cynthia. Aaron's Drapion is 57, while Cynthia's Garchomp is 66. She's just so much higher than everything else that it's a bitch to grind to. (Doesn't help that grinding is slow as fuck because of the game's speed).

Honestly XY are better, at least they have a regional dex with a lot of variety. Now is Plat better than XY, that's harder.
>>
>>34165027
I don’t really like the Sinnoh Pokedex. Playing the game I really enjoyed the map layout. Not as bad as I thought. I look forward to playing Platinum.
>>
>>34164645
Awful diversity and gyms. The elite 4's level jump is disgustingly steep
>>
>>34165061
The regional dex itself gives me enough incentive to replay X/Y. I do agree though that Sinnoh feels much more unique. Kalos really feels like "just another Pokémon region".
>>
>>34164872
>Here's an average Pokemon team (pre-SM)
>Starter
>Flying type (usually regional bird)
>Early 3 stage mon
>mid game mon (usually pseudo)
>Water type (if Starter wasn't water) or HM Slave 1
>HM slave 2

Look mom I made a point!
>>
>>34164984
Not really, no Pokemon has the distribution issues that DP has, you could attempt to argue Johto, maybe, but even that has a REALLY GOOD selection of rare Pokemon that are just slightly out of the way, and every other game has nice options of early to mid game mons that let teams be diverse. In all my years of browsing this board, I've never seen 2 anons with the same team on B2W2, because it had really fucking good team building options.

DP has none of these, you're peppered with Starly and Bidoof deep, deep into the game, and most other early game stuff is either from previous gens (Zubat, Magikarp, Geodude) or difficult to obtain (Burmy, Munchlax, Cherubi, Drifloon if your timing is off) resulting in people only having Starter/Shinx/Starly all the way up till past the 2nd gym.
>>
>>34165214
My SM team was
>Tsareena
>Wishiwashi
>Pallossand
>Ribombee
>Mismagius
>Toxapex
I could choose what I wanted because unlike Sinnoh, I didn't have to constantly have someone using Rock Smash or Strength or Flash to get through that goddamn mountain. Unless you're cool with putting Defog on your main Pokemon, you're GOING to pick up an HM slave in Sinnoh.
>>
>terrible national dex
>characters still one-dimensional and boring, no legitimate personalities or development
>story is pretty basic and unoriginal, essentially a rehash of gen 3's
>Team Galactic is a medicore evil team mainly due to how silly and unintimidatimg the grunts look
>Team Galactic's goal is essentially a rehash of Aqua/Magma
>music is really slow-paced and lacks the oomph we saw in gen 3 and 5, this really only applies to battles however
>battles are extremely slow slugfests that are a pain to go through, easily more monotonous and frustrating than the nonstop cutscenes in gen 7 for example
>menus are also slow and sluggish, for example potions and even super potions are essentially useless after the first or second gym considering how long it taked to use multiple
>region is poorly designed, it isn't really great in any aspect other than atomosphere (Johto also does this very well) but it constantly forces you to backtrack which is especially a problem in a game designed like Pokemon where enemies in the same area don't get stronger as you get stronger
>region forces you to use EIGHT hms, seriously limiting your choices in teambuilding. Many DP teams look exactly the same because of this
>many of the new Pokemon are shitty redesigns or baby evolutions, the rest are gen 5-tier random shit thrown together in the general shape of a Pokemon

Overall they didn't really exceed in any aspects except maybe difficulty, while they had a number of serious and minor flaws that are not superceeded by anything good. Platinum fixed some of the problems with DP but failed to address the main issues, aka the slowness and story. They're easily some of the worst games in the series.
>>
No, slowness IS a valid complaint, because if the game isn't fun to play, then it isn't fun to fucking play.
This is like saying cutscene city in SM isn't a valid complaint.
>>
>>34164878
Well, Sinnoh has something resembling exploration at least.
>>
>>34164926
>>34165037
>>34165901
op never said it was invalid spergs, everyone hates how slow it is. we want to hear other reasons because that one is a given.
>>
>>34164878
I fucking despise XY, but DP are far and away the worst games in the series. XY would be second place.
Strange how the worst games in the series are the same ones that got a lot of people into it.
>>
>>34164645
Without counting speed? Well, here are my complaints:
>regional dex is mediocre. Two fire-types, poor distribution, some Pokemon are closed off by really shitty obtain methods like Spritomb, Munchlax, Feebas. A lot of their movepools are bad as well
>HM usage is ridiculous. In gen 3 you could get away with having a single HM slave because three HMs were water-type and strength/rock smash are learned by most things. In Sinnoh you need to use Defog which requires a bird and Rock Climb which isn’t as flexible as Hoenn. Your Pokemon choices are constrained as a result.
>the bog and snow routes are boring and don’t really offer anything in compensation. They don’t look good and feel like they’re placed there just to make the game more annoying. At least wild encounters didn’t come up.
>The plot is RS 2.0 except this time the retardation is exchanged for autism and plot holes. Gods are a really huge jump in the scale of things.
>This is just my opinion, but: it feels like some of the mons are better used against you than against the opponent. It’s an odd feeling, like how the opponent spamming self destruct or explosion is better for them since they don’t really care if their mons go down
>>
>>34164685
Why would you want 2 fire types in your party? Infernape is enough
>>
>>34166173
That's not a good excuse. Fire is a shit type, but people shouldn't be cucked out of being able to use them.
No one talks about it, but Grass is almost just as shafted. Theres Turtwig, Budew, Cherubi, Snover and maybe Oddish. That's IT.
>>
>>34164645
anything without muh battle frontier is shit, battle tower doesn't count
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>>34166303
Carnivine, man.
>>
>>34166303
Turtwig, Budew, Wormadam-Plant, Cherubi, Carnivine and Snover for DP. Leafeon, Tangela and Tropius for Pt.
>>
>>34166070
>regional dex is mediocre
Incredible understatement.
>Two Fire-type lines, one of which is Infernape, so if you didn't pick it then you're stuck with Rapidash
>Two Ice-type lines despite Sinnoh being the coldest region so far, fucking Hoenn had more Ice-types available
>Doesn't accomodate the region's type specialists at all (Candice, Volkner and Flint are all forced to use Pokémon not of their specialist type to pad out their teams, might be more examples)
>Plenty of Pokémon that should have been in the dex from the beginning weren't included until Platinum, including Pokémon that got evolutions in that generation like Electivire and Magmortar
It's an absolute fucking mess. The fact that nobody at Game Freak seemed to realise how awful it was completely baffles me.
>>
My main issue with DP besides the sluggish speed is that many of the new Pokemon besides Bidoof/Starly/Shinx/Shellos are infuriating to get. Honey trees take several mons off the list as does the Great Marsh, and both of those are heavily luck based with little you can do to speed them up. Then there's fucking Spiritomb, which I actually used in my Pearl Nuzlocke (which I did with no dupes clause because I felt like it) out of not encountering anything good or unique besides Pachirisu (which is only one of those), and you need another DS and Sinnoh game for that (Spiritomb was fucking great though). Even the fossils require going through the Underground, which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that it could take you anywhere from 5 minutes to half an hour to even get one. Also the evolutions of old mons were mostly shoved post-game - I really like Platinum for this. Almost everything interesting in DP (Croagunk, Skorupi, Spiritomb to name just three) is really hard to get. Kind of like in Sun and Moon, but Sun and Moon were nowhere near as bad and had a bigger dex that was more interesting.

Overall, Platinum is literally the game DP should have been.
>>
>>34164645
I liked it
>>
>>34164645
awful rival
"I should fine you" got old immediately, even when I was 10
>>
>locked a fraction of Gen IV's Pokemon post game
>Battle Frontier was a joke compared to Emerald's
>Pal Park was tedious
>Fucking Spiritomb
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>>34164645
Pretty comfy region/music setting imo, but I can see why other people would dislike it.
Enjoyed the connection between Johto and Sinnoh.
Fog annoyed me, though.
>>
>>34164645
Despite being slow, ive replayed platinum more than any other pokemon game
>>
People complain about fire-types in DP, but you're now aware that there still isn't a non-starter three stages fire evouliton line outside of magby/magmar/magmortar, which might not even count because baby
>>
>>34166303
infernape is faster and stronger than the other 2, and fire covers against Bronzor/zong encounters
>>
>>34165267
>Trash Pokémon are common
>Interesting Pokémon are rare
Sure tickles my noggin.

I don't get you people. Your constant begging for convenience has ruined whatever was special about getting those Pokémon. I spent a week slathering honey on my four specific trees before I found a Munchlax. I walked around in the grass on Alola Route 1 behind the boulders for 5 minutes before I found a Munchlax. Guess what felt more like a reward? I looked for the four spots in Mt. Coronet for Feebas for about an hour before finding one. I fished for 5 minutes on Lapras in bubbling spots at Brooklet Hill to get a 5% Feebas encounter. Guess what had me more excited? I waited for Friday to find Drifloon hanging out at Valley Windworks. I found Drifloon as a regular encounter at Hau'oli Cemetery. Guess what I was more excited waiting for? I spent one night grinding the Underground for flags with a friend so we could find Spiritomb. Maybe Spiritomb should be a regular grass encounter with its encounter rate at 5%. That'll be great.

Oh wait, no it won't, it'll completely devalue the reward. It's like characters giving you Legendary Pokémon or Legendary Pokémon with thoughtless locations like Hoopa rings or Ultra Wormholes. Sure sounds more fulfilling than reaching the bottom of Snowpoint Temple post-game with Regirock, Regice, and Registeel in your party so you can awaken Regigigas. Gible was in an often-missed optional location early on in the game, but it turned into Garchomp, a complete powerhouse that was the signature Pokémon of the Champion. It would be so much less special if it had a good encounter rate in a required area.
>>
>>34164645
This board is filled with ADHD millennials or underages.
>>
>>34166303
>people shouldn't be cucked out of being able to use them
There are plenty of Fire-types in Sinnoh, though.
>>
>>34165882
>Terrible National Pokédex
What?
You realize you can catch like 450/493 Pokémon in DP without Pal Park, right? Ruby and Sapphire together were 200/386, and Emerald was like 240/386 with RS.
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>>34164645
tfw we'll never get again:
>strong early route mons
>post-game cross-gen evos
>this many legendaries
>tracks this comfy
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>>34166620
Is this fresh pasta?
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>>34166645
They added some in Platimun, we're talking about DP, where all you had was Infernape and Rapidash. If you chose another starter but didn't want to use Rapidash, you were fucked.
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>>34166669
>this many legendaries
I have no idea why you'd list this as a positive. Over a quarter of SM's new Pokémon are legendaries and it fucking sucks.
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>>34166645
>Plenty
There's only fucking three:
>Infernape
Starter. You only have one if you picked Chimchar at the start.
>Rapidash
Ponyta is available reasonably early, but it takes an eternity to evolve at Level 40. Its movepool is also more like a move puddle.
>Heatran
Random-ass legendary only available after you've already beaten the League, at Level 70. With this in mind, there's only two.

You don't even need all the fingers on one hand to count the number of Fire-types available in Diamond/Pearl's main game. Stop lying.
>>
>>34166655
You had to own previous Pokemon cartridges to get that many Pokemon. Remember when the DS had a Gameboy slot?
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>>34166744
I only like them because they count as more things to do in the game.
>>
>>34164685
Jotho
>Cyndaquil
>Magmar
>>
>>34166755
You're right, I was thinking of Platinum.
>>
>>34166669
>strong early route mons
early route mons in DP weren't anything special, and BW and XY had stronger ones. We'll get them again.

>post-game cross-gen evos
I want some more ones, but why post-game? That's awful.

>this many legendaries
>wanting more legendaries
Also BW and SM had nearly as many or more respectively than DP, I guess you just haven't played them?

>tracks this comfy
>liking awful midi jazz piano
One of the worst soundtracks of any Pokémon game imo.
>>
>>34166700
Sure, I just wrote it. But if you want a game where you have every Pokémon available right from the start, you have zero sense for good game design. The problem with the Pokémon fanbase is that there are too many autists who obsess over their "bros" and how they NEED them that when Game Freak panders to them and makes 40 Pokémon available on every route or does something like thoughtless like the Friend Safari, it completely kills the single-player experience of Pokémon as a JRPG. Caving to player desires doesn't necessarily make the game better. Secret areas don't have any reason to exist if there's nothing difficult to catch.
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>>34166777
Arcanine
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>>34166606
Chandelure.
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>>34166795
>it completely kills the single-player experience of Pokémon as a JRPG
Pokémon has always been about interacting with other people. Also you can't access the Friend Safari until after beating the league, so I don't know what your problem is exactly.
>>
>>34166620
Is this....is this pasta?
There's making something rewarding and making something just plain stupid hard for no reason. Munchlax was a terrible design choice because there's a 12 hour timer and it can't be reset. This is just tedious, since all you're really playing is the waiting game with a bonus of RNG.

DP fucking sucks at rewarding the player because it's really just wasting your time. The game that actually rewards you for going out of your way is GCS/HGSS.
>Heracross available in headbutt trees in Azela
>Pineco, Aipom, Exeggucte all in headbutt trees, sometimes found asleep for an extra bonus
>Dunsparce available by using Rock Smash in Dark Cave
>Unown forms available if you figure out the puzzles
>Lapras available if you go in Union cave on Friday
>that tiny lake with Dratini in it south of Blackthorn (in GCS at least)
>Miltank and Tauros on the same route
>Swarm Pokemon like Yanma
I don't understand how you saying you spend a week playing RNG lotto slots for one (1) Pokemon is a good thing. That just means you got fucked for a week straight and somehow saw that as good design. And DP's stupid method of making Pokemon rare still does not change the fact that the Pokemon selection is barebones as fuck and most people will NOT be able to go through the game with a Munchlax or Drifloon or Spiritomb because they don't wanna spend a week slathering fucking honey or spending 20 hours in the boring as fuck undergound.
>>
One thing I never hear brought up is the fact that they took interesting and rare Pokemon, including several that got evolutions in Gen IV, and locked them behind dual slot until Platinum rectified it.
The dual slot function was a neat idea and usage of the DS/DS lite's GBA slot, however, it would've been executed a lot better if the Pokemon it added were supplementary or inconsequential. Teddiursa being dual slot exclusive is fine, but fucking Magby and Elekid?
Not to mention that in order to get these, you need the right game, and you can't own a DSi (or, understandably, a 3DS family system).
>>
>>34166744
He should specify WHY DP does Legendary Pokémon better than SM.
Ultra Beasts (and Necrozma) in SM are random grass encounters.
The Tapus are copied and pasted. They're like Uxie and Azelf if there were two other members battles in lake caves.
Solgaleo/Lunala are version-exclusive and tied to the story like every other paired game since Gen III.
The Mythicals haven't had real story events since Victini, and even then Victini was the only story event Mythical in Gen V. DP had three plus Manaphy from Ranger as a bonus.

Where's Fullmoon Island? Where's Stark Mountain? Where's Snowpoint Temple? Where's Turnback Cave? Where's the Hall of Origin? Where's the Flower Paradise? Where's Newmoon Island? DP had all these story events for their Legendary Pokémon and Mythicals with overworld sprites and unique locations. At least SM had Cosmog in the alternate world.
>>
>>34166807
>Fire stone in kanto
>>
>>34166894
>not playing Crystal
>>
>>34166777
Cyndaquil, Magmar, Vulpix, Growlithe, Ponyta, Houndour, Slugma, Ho-Oh, and Entei, actually. Some of the encounters are a bit suspect but you can still grab them before you beat Red.
>>
>>34166851
I'd argue that Johto has its problems. Swarm Pokemon are just as much RNG lotto; either you run around for an hour trying to find a Yanma with a 1% encounter rate, or you pray that you're blessed with a swarm on a given day. Headbutting in specific is 'mash A for an hour and hope you picked the right tree'. Furthermore, the amount of new Pokemon that had 1% encounter rates (Maril being the most egregious example in my opinion) was absurd, and placing new Pokemon exclusively in Kanto,
or even better, Mt Silver, (Slugma, Sneasel, Misdreavus) doesn't help.
>>
>>34166909
>No playing platinum
>>
>>34166939
>not playing conquest
>>
>>34166945
>not playing Hey you Pikachu
>>
These games almost made me give up Pokemon.
The ugliest starters (at the time), slow, boring, dumb story. Introduced some cool evolutions and then didn't even let you use them until post game. Other cross gen evolutions were absolutely hideous.
HMs up the ass. I think at one point I had to use two HM slaves. Half the HMs added nothing to the world at all and didn't need to exist.
Ugly cover legendaries. First time younger me had to pick the less hideous option (diamond). Ugly, ugly, ugly.
The only things I got from this game were Yanmega, Gliscor, Gastrodon, Glaceon and Leafeon, some pretty good music (day and night route themes were cool) and a couple okay legendaries. But this generation also started the whole legendary bloat in the first place, which BW1 would continue.
Overall, ugly, boring, slow. Platinum fixed some stuff but by then I was over it and wanted nothing to do with the Sinnoh region.
>>
>>34165318
Despite all the complains of it being "easy-mode" I fucking loved the no-hms-needed part of SM, finally I could actually make a team of 6 pokemon I want, not 5 and a fucking beaver or raccoon to cut down a tree or push a rock out of the way, and I hope its still a thing in later games.
>>
>>34166929
>99% postgame
>>
>>34166958
>not playing typing adventure
>>
>>34166936
I agree about the Swarms and Marill, holy fuck, but none of this is quite as bad as Spiritomb or Munchlax. And I thought Sneasel and Misdrevus were available before Kanto in HG/SS? I know you can find Misdrevus in that little cave at night time, and the Safari Zone had Lavitar, Murkow, and Magmar, among others, even if that is one big RNG fuckfest.
>>Headbutting in specific is 'mash A for an hour and hope you picked the right tree'
Isn't that what all Pokemon catching is? Just run around somewhere and pray you get the right encounter?
>>
>>34166873
>The Tapus are copied and pasted. They're like Uxie and Azelf if there were two other members battles in lake caves.
I can agree with most everything else but the Tapus aren't copy pasted at all. They all share an aesthetic but their designs are all different, unlike the Lake Trio where they're identical aside from the colour of their "hair".
Besides that, the biggest issue I take with SM's legendaries is that they take up so much space in a dex that's already one of the smallest in the series. I wouldn't have minded so much if there were about 120 regular Pokémon and 18 legendaries, but there are only about 60 regular Pokémon introduced, which is an abysmal number.
>>
>>34166981
>2/9
>99%
>>
>>34166981
Slugma, Houndour, and Ho-Oh in Silver are the only ones you can grab after beating the E4. You can whine and complain and move the goalposts all you want but this is an objective fact.
>>
>>34167004
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/exaggerate
>>
>>34167023
That would have worked if most of them were postgame, you genius.
>>
>>34167021
+Fire stone (ninetales, arcanine, flareon)
+Ponyta
>>
>>34166981
they’re not even beyond Red in most cases man, what are you trying to defend or prove here?
>>
>>34164645
Sinnoh is a bad region, and Platinum didn't fix it
>>
>>34167053
Oh yeah, forgot about Flareon. Ponyta isn’t beyond the E4 though, so you’re wrong there. You’re also still moving the goalposts, so nice going.
>>
>>34166991
You could get Sneasel earlier in Crystal, and Misdreavus earlier in HGSS, yeah.
And, I definitely agree on Spiritomb and Munchlax or even Feebas in Gen III/IV; and I think that honey trees are effectively an even worse incarnation of headbutting, but with a timer on it now, too.
>Isn't that what all Pokemon catching is? Just run around somewhere and pray you get the right encounter?
I'd argue you have a little more control over what you encounter in conventional catching. You know that if you go to a specific route, you'll encounter a certain set of Pokemon - but the way GSC handled trees were that some would have a smaller selection (no Heracross, etc) and general encounter chance overall -
and this is compounded by the fact that the Pokemon exclusive to this have such a low encounter rate overall; so you might be deceived into thinking 'oh, this is the wrong tree' when you run into 20 Spearow when it was just RNG dicking you over. HGSS rectified this, though.
I agree on your other points, though - GSC did a lot better at rewarding exploration and didn't have anywhere near the level of tedium that DP, and to a lesser extent Platinum, had.
>>
>>34167053
You get Ponyta before the E4. Also this >>34166909
>>
>>34167077
I’d also personally consider Kanto to be part of the game’s story and not postgame, but that’s just me.
>>
>>34164645
The regional dex is horrendous. Platinum did what it could and some routes still feel dull.
>>
>>34167093
>Comparing DP with Crystal ...
DP-GS
Platinum-Cristal
Please
>>
>>34167126
As short as Johto is, I can understand that, postgame begins after the E4. After you're finished with Kanto, there's no real postgame after that aside from picking your new starter up from Oak.
>>
>>34167126
Credits
>>
>>34167151
>>Comparing DP with Crystal ...
?
We were talking about Johto. Crystal takes place in Johto. Stop moving goalposts.
>>
>>34167233
DP thread obviously jotho=GS
compare DP with Crystal ... you are retarded?




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