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I was browsing lemonamiga trying to find games for my retro collection (I was sinclairotard and missed amiga/c64), and this occurred to me: is Amiga the most pointless home computer ever made? Expensive as fuck, and it shined like, for a 2 years of 1991/1990 or so, immediately to be dethroned by PC. And before that, it was all about ports from arcade/commodore 64. Early goldbox engine games looked best on amiga, too.

What is the point of this machine game-wise besides being inferior version of PC?
>>
>>3923559
>Expensive as fuck, and it shined like, for a 2 years of 1991/1990 or so, immediately to be dethroned by PC
You're thinking of something else. The Amiga was released in '85, it was far cheaper than the competition, and it *shone* for 5 or 6 years. IT was bad choices by Commodore that killed it, not the competition. And the Amiga has admittedly obscure technical capabilities that today's computer's still can't match - look up the Copper, and it's abilities to interrupt video frames, for one.

It has a ton of amazing and unique games, even though none of them are europlatformers, beat-em-ups or fighting games.
>>
>>3925025
>It has a ton of amazing and unique games
Well, maybe not a ton, because even then games were ported. But there are cases when the Amiga version is unquestionably the best one.
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>>3925053
In it's day the Amiga also had far better sound capabilities than pretty much any PC that didn't have a high end professional sound module.
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>>3925025
Amiga? Cheaper than competition? Wasn't it selling for like 1500$ in present day dollars?

>>3925025
>It has a ton of amazing and unique games, even though none of them are europlatformers, beat-em-ups or fighting games.
Basically entire top 100 list on lemonamiga consists of 1992 and later games, mostly PC or sega genesis ports. I can't remember any outstanding Amiga games, besides defender of the crown.

>look up the Copper
It sounds cool, but I don't think it makes much difference. Lot of machines had fancy hardware features, like magic button for TR-DOS. Click, and you just got yourself disk version of tape game, which may even work after you load it.

>>3925071
That's actually important, but consoles had better than PC sound too. Look up SNES Doom soundtrack.
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>>3925085
Amiga had some great developers like Sensible Software, Team 17, Psygnosis and The Bitmap Brothers. Most games of theirs that ended up on other consoles, Atari ST and PC were ported from the Amiga versions.
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>>3925071
>Roland MT-32 and SC-55
>high end professional sound module
No
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>>3925103
If we are talking about 80-s, it was C64 first. Yes, Amiga had some decent ports, and some not so decent ones. Anyway, NES and arcade dominated 80-s.
>Atari ST and PC were ported from the Amiga versions.
I think they were developed simultaneously for both, assets at least.
>>
>>3925123
Jon Hare, owner of Sensible has described himself as "100% Amiga".

A lot of the Sensible games were converted for DOS and other platforms by third parties, including Sensible Soccer which was arguably their biggest property.
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>>3925085

When the 500 came out in 1987 it was aimed at the home market and took many parts of the world by storm.
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>>3923559

The Amiga versions of the games at the time were miles better than PC versions. At the time PCs had rubbish sounds and until VGA became mainstream the graphics were better due to the colours on Amiga. It was also like 4 times cheaper than a PC.
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>>3923559

also; browsing /vr/ on my 25 year old Amiga. Jelly?
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>>3925291
Lol, which CPU?
How long does it take for page to load?
Impressive dedication though.
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>>3925403

Only the Commy 3640 at 25mhz.

Don't ask how long it takes
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>>3925025
>. IT was bad choices by Commodore that killed it, not the competition

To be fair, even with the right choices amiga would go belly up as soon as cheap PC compatibles with their fancy sound cards, pentium processors, cdrom drives and vga displays hit the streets in numbers, that shift just sweept the entire market in like tree or four years, look what happened with Acorn and their Archimedes computers, hell, that shift almost killed apple, and they were strong like a bull in the USA education market then. In 91 everyone of them were quite strong and had excellent products, by 94 they were all gone.

With the right decisions... I can see it living three or four more years on the Amiga tech then turning into another clone pc assembler.
>>
It was the simple fact that the Amiga couldn't play Doom that started the death knell for the machine.

I remember back in the mid 90s all the Amiga mags could talk about was Doom clones and FPSs, stuff like Gloom and Alien Breed 3D. But all people wanted was the real deal and you just couldn't play it on the Amiga.
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>>3925291
Of a palfag? Never.
>>
>>3925649

RTG card, nigga.
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>>3923559
It was a straight up Mac clone that did everything worse than a Mac. Pointless indeed.
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>>3925647
To think about it, even SNES got Doom. Poor Amiga.
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>>3925863

>custom chipset
>mac clone

pick one, idiot.
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>>3923559
>shows picture of product playing a game
>product literally being used as a toy
>berates other products by calling them toys

? ? ?
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>>3925885

>implying Amiga doesn't have Doom.
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>>3923559
Amiga was 6-7 years ahead of its time, and did things that PCs couldn't, or only through software mimicking, even a decade later. It came out in 1985/6, and it was the first multimedia PC, something that did not exist as a concept yet. It had more powerful audio than anything on the market for years, and it had genlock which allowed it to match the framerate of whatever signal you passed through it, allowing it to do perfect video overlays.

It was used in the video sector for a long time even after Commodores demise.

It died for three reasons; 1. post-Tramiel, Commodore was run by idiots (except for one guy who did right and got booted for that out of jealousy), 2. the OS was rushed for launch and buggy as fuck, arguably it was extremely ambitious but could not deliver for that reason. They also weren't able to update it in time, nor distribute updates efficiently enough. It was easily a decade ahead of PCs when it worked, though. 3. PCs didn't get major technical advancements, they only became faster and faster and faster, to the point that they were capable of doing, with pure cpu muscle and a dumb framebuffer, what the Amiga did all in hardware. They also got sampling hardware with the Ultrasound. But this took half a decade.

Also the A500 ultimately ended up a problem, since devs had to write software that runs on that, instead of being able to embrace later, more advanced hardware.

Commodore also fucked up the hardware upgrades, and kept doing incremental chipset upgrades instead of revolutionary ones.

>but it had shit games and no arcade ports

It was a multimedia production workhorse, not a weeb arcade machine.
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Interesting factoid:

The Video Toaster that made Amiga so popular with TV broadcasters featured on a T-shirt worn by Garth in Wayne's World 2. Dana Carvey who famously played Garth has a brother called Brad. The character of Garth was loosely based off Brad. Brad was one of the developers of the Video Toaster at NewTek.
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>>3925085
>top 100 list on lemonamiga
You really need to look beyond that m8
>>
>>3925927
It had a shit-tier port late in its life and only recently a good one.
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>>3923559

All the euroshit computers in general were pretty pointless.

> inb4 some single worded game nobody's ever heard of from some bong that thinks the c64 is british.
>>
>>3926673
Such a dismissive post, made with the benefit of hindsight, that completely disregards a very fruitful period in gaming history. Very sad.
>>
>>>3925025 (You)
>Amiga? Cheaper than competition? Wasn't it selling for like 1500$ in present day dollars?
Your point being? PC's with anywhere near the same capabilities were like $10K+ at the same time. And were still inferior because you had to code your own programs or pay as much again to get software to allow you to use what the Amiga came with. No joke.

>>>3925025 (You)
>Basically entire top 100 list on lemonamiga consists of 1992 and later games, mostly PC or sega genesis ports. I can't remember any outstanding Amiga games, besides defender of the crown.
And defender of the crown got ports too. Again: your point? Lemon Amiga is a great resource, but their top list isn't. There are some amazing Amiga games, but it does take a little digging because the game can be either obscure, or a matter of taste. As in, there will be something you love, guaranteed, but you have to go looking.


I take your point about the copper. I'm big into CRT though, so I dream of it :) I never knew about it back in the day.
>>>3925071
>That's actually important, but consoles had better than PC sound too. Look up SNES Doom soundtrack. The SNES was like 1991 - 6 years later. And it's not better, it's about on par with the Amiga.

>>3925567

To be fair, even with the right choices amiga would go belly up as soon as cheap PC compatibles with their fancy sound cards, pentium processors, cdrom drives and vga displays hit the streets in numbers. Commodore were making bad decisions before the Amiga was even released though. And it was still competing with PC six years later. Give it the upgrades it deserved and it would have been exactly as you said, but with the positions reversed.
>>
>>3926691
fuck me i shouldn't try to do something else at the same time i'm greentexting. Sorry for the mess.
>>
>>3926691
My point is by the time Amiga 500 become available C64 was already cheap as dirt and major 80s home computer games were made with C64 in mind first. A lot of Amiga ports of C64 games actually play worse. And by the time C64 become completely obsolete, Amiga was almost instantly pushed away by PC and Genesis/SNES. Personally I like Amiga and would like to own one, unlike my ZX clone which I threw away mercilessly, but it feels redundant as fuck. Maybe that makes the charm of Amiga, really.
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>>3926740

You clearly don't know what are you talking about. Amiga games didn't take advantage from the hardware initially because most were Atari ST, not upped version of C64 games. The Amiga was a powerhouse in the European market for years while the C64 was still used (it really was like a cockroach), but not supported in a significant capacity. Read something about that period instead of assuming things without knowing a massive amount of facts.
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>>3926756
>most were Atari ST, not upped version of C64 games
Sure, someone made version for computer with almost completely nonexistant market presence, and then ported it to C64 with 10 milliion units sold.
>>
>>3923559
You wouldn't have been able to this on any of the competitors offerings in the privacy of your home with a bud in the late 80s/early 90s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGpU3DicbLQ
These machines expected and fostered user tinkering and creativity. Every modern consumer machine pretty much does the opposite now.
>>
>>3926821
Still being used to do demos to this day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0OzX7plbeY
>>
>muh demos
every computer had their demos
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>>3926825
Yes, but almost none had/has a scene as vibrant and consumer based as the Amiga.
Most computer demos before it were made by professional software engineers on hire to make the product attractive to the potential consumer passing by during conventions/at stores, not enthusiastic kids with a creative thirst/wanting to push the hardware to new limits with the intention of showcasing their skills at parties.
>>
>>3926827
Absolutely, the Amiga Demo scene was something else.
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>>3926834
To be honest I never understood what was so great about demos or demoscene. Then again, I was very young at that time. If I look at them now, I think they are just as shit as they were back then. Maybe I'm just a pleb.
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>>3926837
Or just a normie who's typical reaction to things he doesn't understand is to devalue them. It's ok, we all do this to a certain extent. Shows good character to be self aware about this though.
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>>3926845
Well, to be fair if you look at something and see no value in it, of course you are going to devalue it.
I wonder what understanding here means though. Understanding how much work it was for the creators to finish their demos, pushing the hardware to its limits, etc?
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>>3926837
It's because you don't understand the hardware limitations and the skill and creativity the coders use to get around said limitations.
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>>3926856
Fair enough.
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>>3926852
Mainly just applying the effort to explore thing in question on at least a surface level before dismissing it, rather than just labelling it under shit by default. People who usually attempt the former tend to give valid reasons why they feel a particular way, people who do the later tend to just come off as jerks or shitposters.
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>>3926818

No...That's not how it was. I remember the time clearly and I was old enough to remember. Games were being made specifically for Amiga. 3rd parties were then porting these to 8 bit computers if they could.

Hell look at the DICE now...but back in the day their first game was Pinball Dreams for Amiga and then it was ported over to other computers.

Look are Worms. How much did that game sell and look how many versions there are...Guess what? The game was written on an Amiga. Pic related - the actual Amiga.

So stop talking shite.
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>>3926691
>Give it the upgrades it deserved and it would have been exactly as you said, but with the positions reversed.

I don't think so, anything non x86 would be killed by microsoft as soon as windows 95 launches... unless Commodore convinces microsoft to port it (or leave them port) to amiga, and because a strong Commodore would be a competitor for Microsoft, and you know what 90's microsoft used to do to their competitors.

Like I said this almost killed apple and it had a waaay more solid position than the best commodore would had, even without mistakes.
>>
>>3926852
>Well, to be fair if you look at something and see no value in it, of course you are going to devalue it.
No, for most parts, I get interested in it and search for its value. Especially if it's part of my subculture, like demoscene are to /vr/.
>>
I think I have never seen a thread with so much wrong information and misconceptions on /vr/.
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>>3926092
>shit tier port
it was in '97 and it was way better than the SNES version (SNES version was a remake and not port)
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>>3925927
>UV light on top of ABS plastic
well... FUCK
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>>3925103
>>3925123
Amiga was the origin platform of almost all Atari ST games, even games that got a simultaneous release started as a Amiga project. There are way more Amiga to C64 ports then there are C64 to Amiga ports.
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>>3925443
3 minutes probably
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>>3923559
is this bait or are you just really clueless?
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>>3925647
It wasn't a hardware limitation though, just marketing, when Doom came out Commodore was already on it's last straws and id Software was worried if publishing a Amiga version would actually hurts sales and they scrapped it.
>>
>>3923559
>immediately to be dethroned by PC
mid-90's onwards
>>
>>3925108
hardware PCM synths are inferior to module trackers
>>
>>3926837
Try to code any of the effects you see in those demos, and do it without using google to look up how to do it. Then do all of that again on a machine with 512kb ram and 32 colours.

Once you realize how difficult it is to do even the simplest of those effects, you'll start respecting those demos.
>>
>>3925567
Do you think Amigas didn't have fancy sound cards, cdrom drives, video cards, CPU upgrades?
It was just shit marketing.
>>
>>3927264
>unless Commodore convinces microsoft to port it (or leave them port) to amiga,

The Amiga Hombre chipset was supposed to be running PA-RISC cpu with Windows NT support.
>>
>>3927264
>>3927512
I can't imagine anyone actually using Windows at the time, AmigaOS was lightyears ahead.
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>>3927472

close, nigga
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>>3925291
Specs?
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>>3927464
LED doesn't emit UV
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>>3925085
>but consoles had better than PC sound too. Look up SNES Doom soundtrack.

Not all of us were stuck with L-C-D cards like Adlib or SB.
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>>3928025
That's a common misconception.
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>>3928156
There is nothing wrong with Adlib.
>>
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>>3925085
>I can't remember any outstanding Amiga games, besides defender of the crown.
Spotted the amerifart
Sure, Amiga has TONS of shitty games, but only ONE game is really good? Please
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>>3928317
>Sure, Amiga has TONS of shitty games, but only ONE game is really good? Please
Same with the NES and SNES, even their seal didn't help them, all platforms will have majority of shitty games over good ones, people who don't use the systems usually just don't hear or remember the good ones.
>>
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>>3928317
>Agony
No way dude, I'm just transferring Agony onto my A600 to play, like literally right now.
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>>3928336
I had that monitor lol
Really sucks for low res gaming
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>>3925085
>besides defender of the crown.
And even that was broken and incomplete.
The C64 version had features that didn't even make it to the Amiga version as the development team ran out of time, notably the inability to change catapult ammo type.
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>>3928349
It's not bad with the scandoublers upscaling, the CRT I used to use with it required calibration after mode switches, the LCD does it automatically.
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>>3928352
>I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about
the c64 version came out after the Amiga version
>>
>>3928352
>The ports of Defender of the Crown, notably for DOS and the NES, resulted in an enormous loss in graphic and audio quality due to those systems' inferior abilities compared to the Amiga. But these ports featured more in-depth strategic elements compared to the unfinished original version. The Apple IIGS, Atari ST and Commodore 64 versions were ported with better success, the IIGS, Macintosh and ST versions' graphics coming quite close to the Amiga version.
>>
>>3928367
The IIGS was such a based machine. If only they hadn't crippled the CPU intentionally.
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>>3928370
>The IIGS was such a based machine.
I couldn't have said it better myself
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>>3928363
But the features didn't make it to the Amiga version although they were intended.
Which came first is irrelevant, the ammo features where clearly planned as during a siege the Greek fire and disease lie unselectable next to the catapult.
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>>3928376
>a game that had more time for development has more features
who would have guessed
>>
>>3928349
>monitor resolution 1280x1024
>Amiga PAL resolution for games 320x256
>1280/320=4
>1024/256=4
It's a 1:4 ratio, it will just display 4 pixels instead of one, so I'd say a pretty good monitor for low res gaming
>>
>>3927464

It's LED you tard
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>>3928493
>I post before lurking
>>
>>3927701

3640 at 25mhz
16meg onboard
256meg BigRAM+
X-surf 100 ethernet
Cybervision 64 4 meg RTG
MASplayer for MP3 playback
There's an external scandoubler coming out the RGB but the RGT itself is obviously VGA.
>>
>>3928496

So let me get something straight...The LED strip cycles slowly through all the colours. If I had taken the photo when the colour was green or yellow what would you have said?

idiot.
>>
>>3928497
Fucking sweet! 68LC040 or 68040? Haven't dared to overclock?
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>>3928497
Jelly as fuck, honestly.
>>
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>>3928520
Wanna get even more jelly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbU0UXE0WZY
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>>3928518

68040 + 68882 FPU and MMU

Not tried to overlcock. Want a 060 but that shit's expensive.

Gonna get a Vampire 2 for my 1200 when they come out though. It currently has a Blizzard 1230/50.
>>
>>3928526

Sweet.

I currently have:
A500
A500+
A1200
A4000
CD32 x 2
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>>3928535
>Gonna get a Vampire 2 for my 1200 when they come out though. It currently has a Blizzard 1230/50.
Vampire is awesome, yeah, I thought about getting one myself for my A600.
>>
>>3927496
Usually they're not.
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>>3928798
You mean usually they are
>>
>>3928816
No, cause they're usually capable of actual synthesis too as they're not sample-playback-with-almost-no-effects soundchips. Some Paula tunes are nice, but it's no better than a good MIDI expander when it comes to music stuff, it's more SNES-tier.
>>
>>3928835
>No, cause they're usually capable of actual synthesis too as they're not sample-playback-with-almost-no-effects soundchips.
Not the MT-32
>>
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>>3928835
you mean like high end synth connected to a PC sound card? no worries, Amiga has MIDI adapters too
>>
>>3929006
>Not the MT-32
Except it is an actual synth, most of it's patches share their PCM samples with other patches and just use them as the base audio signal for the unit to process them using the linear arithmetic audio synthesis method (which takes a handful of other parameters). Some patches don't even use any sample at all and are pure synthesized sounds.
>>3929008
Saying that Paula isn't superior to PCM MIDI synths != saying the Amiga can't do MIDI. As long as you have a communication port you can do MIDI, though the Atari ST would be a better choice for such uses (I wouldn't say no to that midi adapter for my Amiga either).
>>
>>3925123
>NES and arcade dominated 80-s.

To Amerifats, the NES barely made a splash in the UK/Europe, even the Sega Master System was more popular.
>>
>>3925927
>>3925291

i see you in the facebook group you have nice amigas
>>
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>>3931037
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>>3928317

Agony is an awful game with pretty graphics.
>>
>>3931702
Are you really that ignorant?
>>
>>3927518
>I can't imagine anyone actually using Windows at the time, AmigaOS was lightyears ahead.

Yes, and os2 was better and RiscOS too, everybody had a better OS than microsoft but windows 95 is what you got everywhere, from your compaqs and dells to the no brand clonic pc assembled on the backroom of your neighborhood computer shop.

Good or bad, as soon as windows 95 got traction and the software developers start working mainly for it the rest would get booted out of the market...

If we don't have anything apart from windows/x86 on the market right now is due this, not the decisions made by IBM, commodore or acorn, Intel/Miscrosoft just ravaged everybody.
>>
>>3932739
OS/2 was absolutely not better. Absolutely no driver support and IBM didn't care enough to make sure even IBM-branded machines would sell with OS/2 compatible hardware unless it literally came pre-loaded with OS/2. There wasn't any way for OS/2 to succeed just because you couldn't fucking run it on most PCs.
in contrast, Windows 95 went well out of its way to write some crazy (and kind of flaky) bullshit that allows you to use DOS drivers for Windows while the machine mostly ran in 32-bit mode (it was slow, but it at least allowed the machine to work)
>>
>>3932841
>OS/2 was absolutely not better.
He means the OS itself, not its support or drivers.
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc

How could other OSes even compete?
>>
>>3923559
You are confusing something there
>>
>>3930803

Thanks. I've met someone on /b/ before from the group but they declined to say who they were....for...reasons.
>>
>>3923559
>sinclairotard
Sounds like you're just plain retarded. You don't even know when the Amiga came out.
>>
>>3925567
In other words...

the mistake that they made was not doing THIS themselves

sweeping the market with cheap amigas to blow the pc and mac market out of the water
>>
>>3935850
They had cheap Amigas, cheaper then any PC or Macintosh, but those could not compete with the Macintosh again. Even though with expansions the cheap ones could surpass it, but then it just would cost as much as a Macintosh in the first place and many people didn't bother.
>>
>>3927501
He may be saying that to him demos had no inherent value, which is how I always felt about them.
I can appreciate the effects used and the work that must have gone into doing it the same way I can respect the time and dedication that goes into building a ship in a bottle, but ultimately I fail to see much application for the effects shown or long-lasting appreciation I can feel for something difficult I had no part in.

It looks cool, i'm sure it was really difficult to do, but I just don't see any inherent value in demo scene presentations.
>>
>>3936656
It's like graphics demos nowadays, they demonstrate the capacities of the machines, a lot of things even the engineers who made the system didn't know was possible, that developers could use.
>>
>>3936702
This. Also, one point people seem to be missing:

A well-done demo in the day was practically aa C.V. Many a coder went on to gainful employment somewhere in the industry on the strength of their prowess in the demoscene.
>>
>>3923559
>NEW AMGA

wat
>>
>>3937058

err...it was new?
>>
>>3937115
look / read harder

> AMGA

I really hope it wasn't a official commercial by Commodore itself.
>>
>>3937135

nah...look harder. look at the creases in the paper all the way down the middle.

It's just folder over.
>>
>>3936656
Code developed for demos was used to make Amiga games what they were. So they had massive inherent value.
>>
>>3923559
that's all it was, was an inferior pc
>>
>>3932341
>responding
>baitfish

Are you?
>>
It doesn't have many exclusives, but until the early 90s the Amiga was the lead platform for game development. Games were ported from the Amiga, not to it.
>>
So what's the best floppy drive emulator for an A500? I was going to just go with a gotek from amigakit.
>>
>>3942163
Gotek is the best, qualty vs price, I got one but I use the cortex firmware, It works but the navigator is a bit basic (cortex have been improved since 2014 I think and its now essentally abandoned).

If you are going to get a new gotek, look for one with the hxc firmware preinstalled.

I'd try to get a gotek but with the hxc firmware preinstalled (more stable, better file browser with search functions and such... there are a lot of ebay sellers that will do this for you) you can reprogram a cortex gotek but you need a programmer and the hxc firmware cost like 10€.

Also, you need to start looking how to fit the gotek, normally if you just swap the floppy with the gotek you can't reach the buttons or read the led, if you know basic soldering you can rewire the buttons and led to an external protoboard or just buy the extender, looks really neat.
>>
>>3942219
Thanks for the info! I was looking at the vote cables that allow it to be used as a second drive partly so that I could still use my floppies and partly because I'm thinking of selling the 500 to go towards a 1200 but that extension card looks lovely.
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>>3942360
Just be aware that lots of games only boot from df0, they are hardcoded to work that way. Maybe would be more useful to have the floppy as df1 and use the gotek as df0.




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