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CRTs won't last forever right? There's a limited quantity and some die every day. How do you think this will be handled in the future?
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Even the Mona Lisa's falling apart, Anon. Before there's a significant shortage of CRTs there will be OLEDs or whatever with sufficient color depth (someone showed me a chart that indicates there's already ones that have greater overall color range) and resolution to accurately simulate CRTs.
>>
Theres thousands of those TVs in my country. And they are 10-20 bucks each one
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there are MILLIONS of them in america. i see them on peoples curbs all the time out for trash, fully functional, and 20$ or less at goodwill. limited quanity my fucking ass.
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>>3935814
CRT TVs from 50~60s still work with a bit of tinkering
My CRT was made in 2007

I'm gonna be senile before my CRT dies
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>>3935817
I don't give a shit about color depth.
I care about input delay.

There isn't a single LCD or OLED fast enough to play lightgun games, and smart TVs are only going to make things slower.
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>>3935814
we'll be able to 3d print them at some point i think
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>>3935832
The delay isn't the only thing that keeps light gun games from working on progressive scan displays and the delay comes from upscaling. By the time all the CRTs are dead all of the native consoles will be dead too and you'll be playing through emulation, assuming you're still alive which you most likely will not be.

To engage in actual speculation, I think that the solution to the light gun problem will end up being displays that you actually shoot something at, maybe some frequency of laser. I have a 14" capacitive touch screen VGA monitor I've played shooting games on before with pic related but it isn't very accurate and I'm not trying to experiment to figure out what kind of material I could overlay that would still transfer the touch but also protect the screen from being shot with an airsoft gun
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>>3935983
>that "solution"
You're fucking losing it m8. Also, stop using that shitty Mona Lisa quote.

Sad reminder that, whilst we never got hoverboards back in '15, this scene is now an accurate reflection of modern reality. Also, is that Elijah Wood on the left?
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>>3936014
>Also, is that Elijah Wood on the left?
Yeah
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>>3935814
As the supply of cheap old CRTs decrease, it will be economically feasible to make new ones for a niche market.
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>>3936361
>he actually believes this

Wanna buy a bridge m8?
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>>3936627
Unless the art of making CRTs actually gets lost, this is what will happen. The only reason there hasn't been any new CRTs made for a niche market yet is because there's still tons of working old CRTs given away for free, so it would just not be worth it since the price to make stuff for a niche market tends to be pretty high.
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>>3935831
This. And I got 3 pvms new in the box in storage. My grandkids might have to worry about disc rot, though.
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>>3936627
>not knowing what supply and demand is
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>>3936640
It will be a long, long time before the supply of existing CRTs dwindles to the point it'll become cost-effective to manufacture them again. For example, it's only been in the last 20 years that we've seen a market for cars from the 30s and 40s get to the point that there are mass produced reproductions and there are just as many CRTs around if not more as there were of those.
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>>3936652
I could see someone trying to make a PVM style monitor to specifically cater to standard definition media (and that doesn't look like a fucking CCTV monitor)
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>tfw you may live to see the reproduction of CRT displays
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>>3936659

You don't like the beige-box old tech look? I thought that was a big part of the appeal. Late-model CRTs, like late 90s on, suffer from that blobby half-melted appearance that was in vogue for tech at the time.
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>>3936693
>I thought that was a big part of the appeal
I'm pretty sure most of the appeal is in the image quality itself, also, Sony's models are typicaly dark colored.
>Late-model CRTs, like late 90s on, suffer from that blobby half-melted appearance that was in vogue for tech at the time.
I love Y2K-aesthetics though.
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>>3936640
The art has already been lost. AFAIK there's one (yes ONE) crt production facility still running, Making limited numbers of tubes of seriously questionable quality. It's in India btw, do you want an Indian CRT? I don't.

>>3936647
>he posts some piece of crap sharing only a name with Edwin Land's invention.
At least namecheck The Impossible Project if you want to appear remotely credible.

A reproduction CRT of any sort of decent quality would cost at least as much as those EOL Ikegamis which B&H are shilling. There's simply not the market to sustain the production and transportation costs involved.
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>>3936695

The main appeal is definitely the quality but for me at least the aesthetic is a big contributor.

You're right though, for some reason I thought my PVMs were beige but they're actually a light grey color. Weird how that works, they look like they "should" be beige so that's how I remember them being. Memories are weird.
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>>3936659
If and when we see actual PVMs consistently selling for $1000 on eBay because I'm very certain that's the kind of price point there would need to be - and for there to be enough demand that some wild amount would sell at that point, probably 1,000+. The market is nowhere close to that and despite what a lot of people think, production costs are unlikely to go down very much. It's not like we're seeing a lot of breakthroughs in glass-blowing technology.
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>>3935983
kill yourself tripfag
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>>3936697
The other issue is environmental bullshit; CRTs are way too toxic to ever be produced again, especially when there's literally millions of them in warehouses that we have no idea how to dispose of. If I'm not mistaken, that place in India is using recycled CRT glass to make those new CRTs. Wasn't this all in some engadget article or some shit?
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>>3936640
This is only a problem for arcade machines which need only the tube. You can't just buy a spare tube nowadays. The stock of 29-inchers is over.
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>>3936751
To be fair there is a RoHS exemption clause currently in place to cover lead glass used in CRTs but this is likely to be revoked pretty soon.

t. Environmental and Quality Manager for a technology firm.
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>>3936659
Obviously the enthusiast route is the way to go if you're the one trying to sell these but keep in mind that PVMs sold for $2000+ when they were brand new and easily manufactured.
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>>3935814
They won't last forever but they will last for decades. There is a limited quantity of them just like there's a limited quantity of sand on the beach. In the future someone will either make quality CRTs to cater to the arcade and enthusiasts market or another technology will come along that replicates them accurately.

>>3935817
>OLEDs
Can it simulate the electron beam accurately in real time? If not it's not a replacement no matter how pretty you feel the colors are.
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>>3935814

Totally accurate software emulation.

I'm usually an originalhardwarefag but crts only apply to fifth gen and below and we should be able to reach perfect accuracy with the last remaining bit of it our lifetime.
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I know it'll vary, but what can I expect to pay to get my 24 inch Wega convergence fixed? I'm pretty sure the yoke is sagging.

Don't have the knowledge or experience to do it myself, and I don't want to overpay.
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>>3936697
>The art has already been lost.
Oh, fuck off.
I bet you don't even know the working principle of a CRT. Production has stopped because there's no demand, nowadays it's essentially a niche product.
It's not a lost art, anyone with money and a group of reasonably qualified personnel can open a fabric of CRTs if they wanted to because the technology itself is unarguably well documented.
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>>3939092
>I know it'll vary, but what can I expect to pay to get my 24 inch Wega convergence fixed?
Bout tree fiddy
>I'm pretty sure the yoke is sagging.
Eh?
>Don't have the knowledge
It's there for the taking. Use your google-fu wisely.
>or experience to do it myself
Nobody has experience the first time, not even service technicians.
>and I don't want to overpay.
Hah! You will.

Nobody professional is remotely interested in tweaking your obsolete consumer set except to rip you off and do a shoddy job. Learn to do it yourself or go back to modern displays with warrantys.
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>>3939220
Production has stopped and the highly specialised tooling and production facilities have been wound up, likely scrapped by now.

Restarting CRT production now would be a herculean task to say the least and it's never going to happen. Ever.
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>>3939228
>go back to modern displays
I never went. But thanks I guess, I'll see how hard the process is and see if I can do it myself.
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>>3935814
What's stopping someone from opening a CRT manufacture tailor made for the retro market?

Outside of basic economics.
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>>3939596
Someone crazy and knowledgeable enough to crowdfund it?
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>>3939596
Quality.

You can make a monochrome CRT on your garage
(http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm)
But a PVM is several orders of magnitude more complex.
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>>3935814
>How do you think this will be handled in the future?
It's already been handled. Emulation.
>it's not perfect!
Nothing is, what's your point?
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>>3935819
That's what they said for VCRs.
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You question the lifespan of the televisions, but don't you think the lifespan of your retro games come into question first?
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>>3939653
Uh, yeah.
Retro games are solid state, with the exception of CD based systems.

Almost all CRTs have a thermionic cathode (aka a heated filament).
Sooner or later those will burn out, just like a lightbulb.
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>>3939232
this anon knows his realism. Making HQ CRTs with 15 kHz won't ever happen again. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a blithering idiot.
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>>3935814
well same goes for original consoles and games. What's your point? Besides, owning 36 CRTs like me stops the panic.
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>>3939673
What about how some games have batteries for memory, or the oxidation of some cartridges?
>>
There's plenty of CRT TVs at thrift stores and garage sales, even for free since the owners think their junk. I got a 27" and 36" Sony Trinitron free from some old rich people, mainly because they're too heavy and they assume they're worthless. I got the stand, remote, manual, cables, everything with it too.

Now you see people advertising them as "old school/retro gaming TV! Great for NES-PS2 era!" and want $200 firm.
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>>3939692
Not just that. Processors and memory all take damage slowly from electrons, as they read, write, and process data.
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>>3939692
Batteries can be replaced with a $5 dollar soldering iron, oxidation can simply be washed off with alcohol.
The contacts are thick enough to have their oxidation washed off a great deal of times.

>>3939749
Yeah, electromigration.
That takes centuries of continuous use to have any effect.
Masked ROMs are rated for ~200 years continuous use before electromigration renders the data unreadable.

Modern processors will die from electromigration LONG before retro consoles, since modern processors use a much smaller die size.
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>>3935814
CRTs are actually durable as fuck, I don't know what you're talking about.

Flat panel technology is ages more temperamental than CRTs.
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>>3939931
>Flat panel technology is ages more temperamental than CRTs.
But easy and cheap to replace. Not everyone is comfortable replacing bad capacitors. It's a lot of power to be messing with potentially and to get good at soldering caps requires practice.
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>>3935814
they make new ones duh
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>>3939596
Nothing. If there is a demand for it someone will reopen a factory.
The kids who are saying it's impossible, that all the stuff has been scrapped, etc are fools. They know nothing about manufacturing. You don't scrap something unless it's worth doing. I have tools in my injection molding factory that are decades old. Each cost thousands of dollars to make at a minimum. Why would I scrap them? Just look at this tool for the Jaguar case that keeps popping up. Nothing that couldn't be easily reproduced has been scrapped.
The only thing that can be really lost is the skills involved in making them. Making a CRT is a complicated and manual labor intensive process. When the factory workers who made them start kicking the bucket or forgetting how to do it due to alzheimers there will be a real problem with restarting production.
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>>3935828
>i see them on peoples curbs all the time out for trash
Exactly. Once they go to the dumb they're gone for good.

>Limited quantity my fucking ass
They no longer make them anymore, so even if there is a warehouse with 7 billion un-touched CRT television that is still a finite number.

>>3935831
>My CRT was made in 2007
I wouldn't count on it lasting as long as the older ones, but I wouldn't count on it taking a shit any time soon either.

>>3936697
>The art has already been lost
You're a fucking retard, broseph. Also: That plant shut down forever ago.

>>3939232
>Production has stopped and the highly specialised tooling and production facilities
Fuuuuuucccckkkk oooofffff. A soldering iron?

Here's an entire site full of DIY CRT TV instructions: http://www.earlytelevision.org/build_your_own_tv.html

>>3939596
Cost

>>3939692
The ROM has already been backed up millions of times. This is literally a non issue.
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>>3940551
>the rom has been backed up
If that's the case why not just play on PC with your Xbox controller then?
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>>3940551
>Here's an entire site full of DIY CRT TV instructions
Where's the section describing how to blow and vacuum seal a crt tube then?
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>>3940551
>They no longer make them anymore
>I believe everything some kid on the internet says
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>>3935814
Some Filipino immigrant who owns a little shop of electronics near where I live said that there are tons of brand-new dirt-cheap CRTs in the Philippines in the appliances section of grocery stores when I curiously asked him where to find brand-new CRTs.

He is not sure about the quality but they are really cheap (think $50 to $60) and I assume that they are terrible since they are ridiculously cheap and the brands are very generic and the kinds you could qualify as Chinkshit even if these CRTs are Filipino-made and not China-made, though there are China-made ones.

He didn't check which inputs it had but he said that they most likely have Composite video, he isn't sure about S-Video, Component YPbPr or RGB SCART.

CRTs are still being sold in the Philippines for the poorer people who can't afford even the cheapest LED/LCD TVs.

I wish that Sony would make Trinitrons again which would be of generally very similar to their D32E1WU BVMs but with even higher quality, a cheaper price (CRTs are cheaper to produce than their HDTVs), set inputs instead of input cards (probably have an RF input and two inputs each of composite, S-Video, RGB via BNC, component YPbPr, SVGA and HDMI on one TV) and be prettier looking instead of looking like oversized microwave ovens.

I know that my D32E1WU BVM is the best quality CRT I have ever seen, but I still can't avoid the fact that it looks like an oversized microwave oven and that more people deserve to experience retro games on a similar-quality CRT.
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>>3940976
You sound like an idiot or at the very least out of touch with any semblance of reality.

May I ask how you managed to luck into a D32?
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>>3940976
>set inputs instead of input cards (probably have an RF input and two inputs each of composite, S-Video
>S-Video
What would be the point if they're having RGB anyway?
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>>3940996
A hunt in Goodwill and tons of money to spare.

>>3941002
There are some consoles which have S-Video mods or native support for S-Video but no RGB support, natively or via mods.
An example would be the PC-FX which natively supports composite and S-Video but not RGB, and I don't know of any RGB mods for it, if they even exist.
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>>3941017
So you want a dedicated gaming CRT?

Yeeeeah, not gonna happen.
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>>3941027
It's sad but true.
But I am just wishing for my dream CRT.
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>>3935814
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>>3941253
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>>3940863
>crt tube
Retarded. Done.

>>3940930
>I believe what some random says over what several articles and the Wiki page says
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>>3941342
>Hur, oh my god semantics!
>If you call a ATM an ATM machine you're literally retarded!
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>>3941342
>the diversionary argument of someone who's obviously in the wrong and won't admit it.

Kek
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>>3941253
>>3941254
/comfy/
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I seriously considered looking into making CRT's as a business opportunity.

Obviously theres a shitty market for it.
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>>3941541

I look at it a lot like mechanical keyboards. Even with better technology you'll still have autists splurging for a shitted up model m.
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>>3941563
>better technology than buckling spring
I guess we'll see when it's been invented eh?
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>>3940976
I've never seen them in any grocery store except hypermart but yes nearly every hypermart has at least a dozen different CRTs for sale. I haven't seen anything with more than RF/composite in at least 5 years. They have also been shrinking in size. I haven't seen anything larger than 21" in 5 years. Nothing I'm interested in but proof that the market is alive and well.

>>3941342
What several articles are you referring to? The ones written by some millennial hack saying CRT production has ended only to be superseded by a later one saying it has really ended? No this time it has really really ended? You're a fool and a tool kid.
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>>3942625
Are you in the Philippines?

And yes, the shop owner said that they are in hypermarts or some supermarkets he said were called "Savemore" but he also saw some CRTs in some supermarkets when he was in the Philippines.

What are the brands of CRTs you see?

Also, are there any new CRTs in any countries other than the Philippines?
>>
I see several a week for under $5 at my local goodwill. Are people paying decent money for them on ebay now?
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>>3942762
Only if it's a PVM or Trinitron.

Otherwise nobody cares.
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>>3942762

None of my local thrift stores carry CRT's, and the ones I asked said they won't even take them anymore

It's even worse that I don't see any point in getting anything that isn't like a PVM or an NEC xm29 or something like that. I'll never have a proper CRT at this rate
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>>3935983

Finally someone says it. I've been saying it for years, most of the visitors of this board will be dead in 50 years.
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>>3942926
But everything he said is wrong.
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>>3942692
I'm not in the Philippines but I go there regularly.
Savemore is a mall just like SM. Maybe confusing because you'll find SM hypermarts in Savemore malls. They may be in others but I've never seen it.
I don't recall the names and unfortunately the SM website only lists a couple of the TVs they sell. But they were all names I've never seen anywhere else.
I've seen new CRTs on the shelf in nearly every 3rd world shithole I've been to. If I haven't it's probably because I haven't gone ghetto enough in that location. That's why it gives me such a fit of the giggles when some little hipster posting from his iphone assures me there are no new CRTs or no new CRTs are being made or whatever he actually meant while dripping millennialspeak slime on the keyboard. Because having visited Starbucks in three major cities in his state he really is an expert on what's happening in the rest of the world. lol

>>3942926
I'm 47 and all my grandparents lived into their late 80's or 90's. 50 years of medical advances accelerating at the rate they have the last 50 years? When I'm 97 I fully intend to still be wiping the floor with underage brats at fightan games.
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>>3939647
are you implying there are no vcr's around?
>>
The games will stop working before the tv's.

Disc rot is already happening and Atari carts are melting.
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>>3943183
They're not "new" tho. They're refurbished, made from scrap.
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>>3943183
Okay, thanks for the info.
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>>3943298
simply epic. :^)
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>>3935832
I still don't understand how CRT light guns even work. How does the game know where you are pointing the gun on the screen?
>>
There is 0 demand for new crt's does nobody here understand supply and demand. It's only 5 turboautists complaining about input lag.

Not only that it costs an enormous amount of money to even start producing electronics a crt factory will most likely lose more money before they even make their first crt than it will ever earn in it's lifetime.
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>>3943919
I've said all this several times already in this very thread.

Let them have their little fantasies anon, might keep them away from the dirt cheap (and free) pro CRTs I'm snapping up left and right.
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>>3943906
For the NES, when you shoot, the NES displays a single black frame, with a white square where the target is.
Inside the gun is a photodiode which conducts electricity when a light shines on it, so if the gun was aimed at the target, the white square lights up the photodiode, and then the NES interprets that as a hit.

The reason this doesn't work on modern TVs is that modern displays try to process the signal to make it look better, and then the upscale the video to fit the screen. This can take anywhere from 20 ms to 80 ms.
This is a problem because the NES expects the black frame to be displayed instantaneously, which at 60 frames per second means under 16 milliseconds (although in practice it would need to be closer to 8ms).

There are other technologies though, like lightpens, which look for the electron beam to scan over the screen.
(By timing how long it takes from the start of the frame to the electron beam hitting the light pen's position, the computer/console can figure out where the pen is on the screen)

The only lightgun tech that works with modern displays is either an infrared system, like the Wii, or camera systems, like modern VR uses.
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>>3941017
>There are some consoles which have S-Video mods or native support for S-Video but no RGB support, natively or via mods.
Are you sure? The Famicom is the only console I know off that doesn't render RGB internally.
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>>3943283
The last (known) manufacturer stopped making them last year I think.
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>>3944156
>or via mods.
The N64 does RGB internally, but you need to mod it to get the RGB out.
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>>3939089
What are you even talking about? 4k is a higher resolution than any CRT ergo more "accurate" and there are 1080p panel displays that achieve 240hz. Extremely high end CRTs like the god-tier FW900 can still eke out higher resolutions at 240hz but that'll be beaten soon. You need to realize that your attachment to CRTs is nebulous and difficult to quantify. It's a combination of the "feels" of full-analog, blooming, glowing CRTs. That's cool, I get it! I feel it too! But eventually all of the various metrics involved in that experience will be replicated using more modern methods. Be happy about that, not angry.

>>3943047
Like what, Anon? That CRTs will outlast consoles? There are a lot more CRTs out there than consoles but they're assigned less value so it's really anyone's guess. It's less cost-prohibitive to make new consoles than CRTs I suppose but either way we DEFINITELY will all be dead before the last CRT or video game console ceases to function. There's 500 year old fucking clocks out there that still work and they're much more complex than CRTs.

The real practical metric is money - and you guys are already upset that this shit is no longer literally dirt cheap. It hasn't even gotten to a fraction of its original value. You have to pay over $100 now to get a $15,000 BVM CRT. What a cruel world.
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>>3935814
Eventually will have 8k resolution VR headsets and we can just emulate our CRTs.
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>>3944382
Eventually we'll have 576 megapixel projectors shining directly onto our corneas and we can just emulate everything.
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>>3944332
Crt has better performance for retro consoles theyre designed to be played on them
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>>3944460
I agree but as time goes on we will be playing fewer and fewer of our retro games on retro consoles. Happily by the time it becomes practically unfeasible we should have a very nearly perfect reproduction of the experience through emulation.
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>>3941419
"Argument" suggests that a debate was posed. Nothing was posed debating what I said, therefor there is no argument to be won.
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>>3943312
They're not refurbished. When will you learn that everything you pull out of your ass is shit?
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>>3944207
Still, what's really the purpose of S-Video if we could have new CRTs with RGB? The only reason anyone here gives two shits about S-Video is because North American consumer TV sets so rarely has pure RGB input of any kind.
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>>3945232
Oh yes they are brah. That's why they're so cheap. Made from literal waste.
https://forum.miricommunity.net/t/monitor-queen-of-malaysia-gives-computers-a-new-life/5663
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>>3944156
PC-FX doesn't have an RGB mod that I'm aware of.

Also, S-VHS tapes.
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I'm learning to make my own homemade CRTs in my garage.
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>>3945795
Are you retarded? That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Your googlefu is not strong.
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>>3939647
Nobody sells them anymore, and most people that I know don't own one or broke it.
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>>3947180
good thing my CRT has built in VCR.
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>>3947180
Meant to quote >>3943283
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>>3947180
There are 5,500 VCRs for sale on eBay right now
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>>3947218
How many crts?
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>>3947263
17,209
dingus




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