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Library: https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

Old thread: >>20922346
>>
Anyone ever read this book? Just started reading Wicca again after almost 7 years and wiccANS always ruined it for me but I've always loved the nature appreciation.
>>
How do I become a key figure in the occult community?
>>
>>20931294
Watch 4chan greentexts on Youtube do it faggot
>>
>>20931294
unlock doors.
>>
My only problem with Wicca is how feminine orientedit is. Goddesses witches etcetc.

>>20931297
Naw
>>
>>20931294
Publish lots of good material, network a lot, and get your marketing straight.

It was easier in the past, because there wasn't much competition, but now, you'll need to really hustle for it.
>>
>>20931294
You have to kill people
>>
>>20931294
Work.
Attain.
Publish.

>>20931323
Or just fake it, like this guy. Money is money.
>>
>>20931323
did you mean to leave out actual learning and experience or was that purposeful?
>>
>>20931294
You teach the knowledge because teaching is how you'll actually learn to understand the material. The "gurus" "masters" or whatever the fuck you want to call them learn the most at those events and from making their videos. The students just blindly pay for it. Stop learning. Start doing. Start teaching. Lots will be garbage and wrong starting out. Guess what? No one's watching anyways so who cares? - in 5 years, you'll have 5 years of experience teaching and no one will ever know that the first 4 years were trash. They'll only see the good stuff that your hard work got you to. Start the sooner the better.
>>
I wish there was a wiccan general
>>
>>20931655
What horrid advice.

The occult community gets dumber by the day, and it just isn't happening fast enough for this moron.
>>
>>20931294
write a soap opera story about your time in a sex and drug cult.

Heh.
>>
>>20931632
If you don't learn or get experience, what you publish won't be any good.

I'm amazed I have to explain that.

>>20931621
Seriously guy, what's your problem?
>>
>>20931706
would you say the balg authors are any good? networking and marketing seems to work out alright for them.
>>
>>20931706
>to Keep Silent
>>
>>20931739
Well, that's the thing - they market aggressively, and that's working for them, but their product is shit and doesn't have any merit.

So while they're 'famous', I would be very hard pressed to consider them a 'key figure'.

On the other side of the spectrum, you've got Satyr, who has done (as far as I am able to evaluate) some amazing work, but is pretty far from the spotlight.

And then you've people like Kraig in the middle. Average work (basically a dumbed-down rehash of Regardie's book), but also didn't avoid marketing, and ended up being hailed as the Lord and Savior by many an ignorant newbie.

>>20931755
That defeats the purpose of these threads, doesn't it?
>>
>>20931770
in today's world of consumer spirituality, when the occult is diluted by a majority of shit product, the consuming majority will label shit figures as key to the ever popular doors of shitland.
>>
>>20931706
I don't have a problem.

>>20931812
On the other hand, it makes it easier for those who know to conceal themselves and their work. Keeps out the riffraff.
>>
>>20931841
>keeps out the riffraff
Like that Alzheimer’s care place in Switzerland who put a fake bus stop in front of their building, so patients trying to get out would be bamboozled and sit at the stop patiently waiting for a bus that’s not coming
>>
>>20931949
Rather like that, yeah.

It used to bother me, the flood of shit occultism. I now understand it as dust in the eyes of the profane. Those who need it, find it. The rest wander in darkness, often by choice.
>>
>>20931674
Well, it's summer duder.
>>
>>20931309
Wicca translates to witch, it is a feminine word. The cult was made by and for women.
Ppl wanna learn occult without even knowing language these days?
>>
>>20932010
I agree with you. I think that’s a natural reaction though, when you’re really into something and you see it getting co-opted by idiots. I try to tell myself there was never a time when it wasn’t being co-opted by idiots, and it did just fine without me around to be indignant about it.
>>
>>20932125
Yep, yep.
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>>20932123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5X8qDDMC-o
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>>20932150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCC34FWETs

Good lord, never liked cumbia
>>
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>>20931770
this struck me as relevant to your current entanglement regarding the relationship between skepticism and the ability to have mystical experiences
>Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, Santayana declared, and the metaphor is apt. The mind that seeks the deepest intellectual fulfillment does not give itself up to every passing idea. Yet what is sometimes forgotten is the larger purpose of such a virtue. For in the end, chastity is something one preserves not for its own sake, which would be barren, but rather so that one may be fully ready for the moment of surrender to the beloved, the suitor whose aim is true. Whether in knowledge or in love, the capacity to recognize and embrace that moment when it finally arrives, perhaps in quite unexpected circumstances, is essential to the virtue. Only with that discernment and inward opening can the full participatory engagement unfold that brings forth new realities and new knowledge. Without this capacity, at once active and receptive, the long discipline would be fruitless. The carefully cultivated skeptical posture would become finally an empty prison, an armored state of unfulfillment, a permanently confining end in itself rather than the rigorous means to a sublime result.

~t. Richard Tarnas
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>>20932176
What if it's not a passing idea but a clear pattern?
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>>20932123
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+founded+wicca

>>20932182
what's "it," in this sentence
>>
>>20932158
okay?
>>
>>20932123
In the Early Medieval language of Old English, the term wicca (/ˈwJttʃɑː/) was a masculine noun for sorcerer
>>
>>20931841
What do you think Regardie's final "True Grade" was in that incarnation?
>>
>>20932216
Maybe this is another one of those "ending in 'a' makes it sound feminine" things like some anon did w/ Shaula in another thread
>>
>>20932231
I think it’s like a “confusing the aesthetic of Sabrina the teenage witch with Wicca as a whole” thing
>>
>this thread

I think my Silver RaveWolf joke last night has backfired.
>>
>>20932252
Not at all, hit the target, the target it's just attempting to dodge.
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>>20932218
I have no idea. I doubt he made it to master.
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>>20931674
Lol I'm new here - It's okay to say someone's advice is horrid and then not explain why it's horrid? - Didn't know this was 9gag...

1. If you want to become an influencer in a field, you have to perfect your message. The only way to do that is to film yourself speaking the message practice it over and over again until it's second nature

2. You need those vids uploaded to somewhere, whether its D.tube or YouTube of Vimeo or wherever - You do this for marketing sake. It's called SEO - maybe you've heard of it... Been around for couple decades now... You could create the best piece of information out there of all time. Doesn't matter if no one can find it. Got to play the game bud.

Anyways, have a good one :)
>>
>>20932266
inb4 "heh"
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>>20932176
I don't think there's any issue with being skeptical and having mystical experiences.

The two, in fact, often go hand in hand.

The issue is in being able to distinguish between something worth paying attention to, and something not.

And here's the conundrum

If you look deep enough into what's possible *without* the influence of supernatural forces, all material, psychological and scientific endeavors become entirely meaningless.

Sure, one can find some sense of purpose in family, work, etc.

But that's hardly satisfactory when you're aware that everything you do or say is wholly devoid of intrinsic value.

What remains then?

The research on telepathy is iffy.

Astrology seems like a worthwhile pursuit, but somehow nobody bothers to study it in appreciable depth.

Divination turns out to work exceedingly well in some cases, barely at all in others.

All this leads to a certain degree of cognitive dissonance, or more accurately put... cultural dissonance, where you have people who engage in those more meaningful practices, who commune and interact with spirits, and those who don't.

I've been on the fence about this issue for a long time, swinging wildly between both sides.

Can't seem to reconcile this.

You've seen my nativity, think the Saturn-Jupiter opposition might be related?

>>20932266
Fuck. Right. Off.
>>
>>20932282
Heh.
>>
>>20932259
Did he claim to have crossed? I thought he claimed Adeptus Something
>>
>>20929835
Just that the Venus' and Mars' are all on or near the angles is a buttpucker. The transit Sun being in the first decan is just too much Mars. If the Natal Sun had also been in first decan would have been way way too much Mars-Venus shit.
Makes me wish I had the date for my own related incident, but I was only around four at the time.
>>
>>20932266
Fuck yeah! Race to the bottom!

>>20932303
Well, adeptus takes him as high as 7=4. Adeptus sounds about right.
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Happy Jueves gents.
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>>20932294
heh
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>>20932191
Our pattern
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>>20932333
So someone (Regardie in Eye/Triangle?) said that the grade of 9=2 implies the Magus 'has perfect control of Iesod,' or something to that effect. Is this the case? Because 3=8 doesn't imply that the Practicus has perfect control of Binah? What may one read in order to better understand, in depth, the #degree=#squared meaning? I'm aware (or think I'm aware) it pertains to the sefiroth, and that the first number is supposed to indicate which sefirah the grade "takes place in" but that's about it.

I feel like I heard it was derived from some Irregular Masonic Rite but google is giving me everything from math classes to conspiracy blogs
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>>20932345
What is the sigil in the middle? I recall it from Agrippa
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>>20931655
>>20932266
this is how occultism dies, with thunderous autism
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>>20932333
>Fuck yeah! Race to the bottom!
capitalism has touched every part of society and our world, it makes sense that it would poison occultism as well.
>>
>>20932451
That's just a ship's wheel
>>
Does anyone know if there are any BOTA materials floating around on the internet? I've checked a few big pdf collections but can't seem to find anything at all.
>>
>>20932176
>For in the end, chastity is something one preserves not for its own sake, which would be barren, but rather so that one may be fully ready for the moment of surrender to the beloved, the suitor whose aim is true

Fucking gold

>>20932293
>But that's hardly satisfactory when you're aware that everything you do or say is wholly devoid of intrinsic value.

So your issue isn't about truth, it is about meaning. I think seeing scientific and spiritual truth as at odds with each other is fallacious. The spirit of scientific inquiry is built into occultism itself (the lesson of the six of swords) and occultism is low key always informing and being informed by hard scientific inquiry (Jack Parsons, the various metaphors we use based on theories about electromagnetism and gravity et al)

Sure there are plenty of Deepak Chopra retards out there but the kinds of people who get fooled by that would be fooled by whatever avenue they chose in life, some people are just fools.
>>20932333
>333
>Race to the bottom

As retarded as pop spirituality can be, there is an argument to be made for fame as a form of Sorcery. Crowley managed to sell himself while disguising the inner mysteries perfectly. People to this day parrot the memes he invented about himself like they were facts. That is an almost Christ like act of Casting Fascination
>>
>>20932435
The first number is equivalent to the relevant sephirah. I am unsure what he meant about the Magus, if anything.

Crowley discusses the grades in an appendix to, Magick in Theory and Practice.

The grades are Rosicrucian, I thought. Been a while since I looked at such things.

>>20932465
Can't poison the genuine article.

>>20932501
Crowley needed to be a lightning rod. He wanted his material preserved.
>>
>>20932451
Seal of Jupiter
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>>20932511
>Can't poison the genuine article.
true, but that which is poisoned gets passed off as the real thing. fucking simulacras.
>>
Who wants power? Feed on me to start learning. Or possession w/e suites your needs.
>>
Heals if you serve, you will change it will hurt.
>>
>>20932522
pay denbts first, gr*ekoid
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>>20932514
So what's the difference between that Seal (or any of the planetary "seals" he gives in that section) and the alchemical symbols he gives for the planets?
>>
>>20932501
>So your issue isn't about truth, it is about meaning.

Which, as far as I can tell, is one and the same.

Meaning arises from a perception that certain things are true. Such as values, relationships, or higher ideals.

I can totally see myself finding meaning in an esoteric view of reality, however I would have to be find a way to reconcile this with the way I've been looking at life from the other side.

>>20932518
This brings up a question. Crowley was clearly a fan of laissez-faire capitalism (see Liber AL, Liber OZ).

How do you reconcile this with the idea that capitalism is poison?
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>>20932522
Sod off lad.
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>>20932527

Hello.

Telepathic handshake.

Or maybe i am draining your energy.
>>
>>20932542

No i came to eat. Hoping some knew something.

Your mind is interesting.
>>
>>20932542

Your area is interesting you know people.

The drop creates a swirling mass.
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>>20932542

Many connections about occult. Fascinating.

The grammer is useful as well. Understand that english much better than American. Thank you.
>>
>>20932528
>difference
Not sure what you mean by difference but I suppose it depends on what forces you're working with and what you're trying to accomplish at the moment.
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>>20932537
>Crowley was clearly a fan of laissez-faire capitalism

Crowley shifted his political ideals to fit whatever room he was in and his mood, and I would argue he ran the gambit from libertarian socialism all the way to fascism depending on how he felt.
He wasn't exactly the most coherent political figure, but he was very critical of the industrial capitalism emerging in his home country
>>
>>20932542

i ate your mind.

Sorry. You do you. Shape your self from void. No strings.
>>
>>20932558
>gambit
'gamut', friend
>>
>>20932558

Hello.

Interesting mind.

Studied good.

Some good data on elements. Nice.

Some creation aspects as well.

Im keeping your mind. You do you. Shape yourself from void. All info and such is there. More even
>>
>>20932558
And yet most of his inspired works seem to uniformly support free, voluntary trade.
>>
>>20932537
Heh.
>>
>>20932565

Hello. Russo?

Your smart. Math. And education.

Shape self from void.
>>
>>20932556
>not sure what you mean by difference
well, I wasn't asking you to describe discrepancies in their physical appearance. What are the uses of one vs. the other? What are some things one can be used for that the other can't, and vice-versa?
>>
>>20932576
Have you read any of Agrippa?
>>
>>20932537
So what if the truth was that there *is* no meaning? Is that not the ultimate liberty?
>>
>>20932537
>>20932558
"Society has had bad masters, who, wishing to increase their material wealth and luxury, tried every means to force men to slave for them, instead of being independent units. Also, profoundly conscious of the contempt in which they and their riches were held by poets and
artists, mystics, scholars, and even by the merely well-born, they used the power of their money to destroy the esteem in which men held wit, art, breeding, and so forth. They did this even at the cost of diminishing their own true happiness"

Note that this quote was pre Barnays and frankly prophetic. Crowley correctly diagnosed that the true failure of capitalism is psychological and spiritual and that class alienation only leads to misery

>>20932569
Voluntary trade =/= capitalism
>>
>>20932537
>How do you reconcile this with the idea that capitalism is poison?
theres nothing to reconcile because i dont give a shit what crowley thinks about politics or economics. if he saw how people lived today, he might think differently, but that doesnt matter.
actually it's funny that the guy who said that you can do what you want without infringing the will of others. what has capitalism done but created wage slaves and debt slaves of a large portion of the world's population? is that not infringing on the will of others? do you think it is anybody's will to have to choose between starving and doing meaningless work that makes someone else richer, especially when there have been valid critiques and alternatives theorized since the advent of capitalism? capitalism kills. it kills the environment, it kills humans, it kills motivation, it kills a lot of things. it leaves people destitute and morally/spiritually bankrupt, even if their boxes they call homes are gilded and full of useless shit they dont really need. the amount of manipulation and misdirection is insane, thanks to media, banking, etc. the whole thing is a shitshow.
>>20932569
theres nothing free about free trade. all it does it accelerate the concentration of wealth into the hands of the few, creates monopolies and oligarchies through power and corruption.
>>
>>20932569

You have ideas i like. Here logistics.

Ok this is more feasible.

Working model for global circle of trade with no inflation supporting highest population.

Thanks "lads" i like a lot of your ideas and knowledge.

Hopefully this fixes a lot of issues.
>>
We need to switch to material and production not a paper based system as a base for population.

With the rise of AI human work is to costly and slow.
>>
>>20932543
>>20932547
>>20932550
>>20932553
>>20932560
>>20932567
>>20932572
>>20932591
larp elsewhere you schizophrenic-sounding fuck
>>
>>20932596
Not larp. I am a telepath.

The one i am interested in speaking with read my message and is processing.
>>
>>20932579

Unfortunately the Llewellyn version but yes. I know that the Seals he gives are derived from the magic squares of the planets. I don't recall reading where he explains the virtues of those seals in comparison with the oft-used alchemical seals though.

And WOWWW I was "warned" for reporting the greek shitposter who's been shitting up every thread on the board.
>>
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>>20932580
Nah, that's depressing as hell.

>>20932584
Picture related.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy from anyone else. You can choose to buy bread at a dozen different bakeries. You can choose to make your own bread. You can choose to get land and grow your own grains to breadify.

Obviously having more resources means having more options, but at the end of the day, that's true in all areas of life.
>>
Food is already in place. Fast food. Create a chain with cheap product to fees masses.
>>
>>20932607
Even that has backfired, people hate the fast food on instinct, causing another rift between the goals and the results.
>>
>>20932569

All you got to do is think.

I am putting your thought on trade and economy as the first attempt.

Keep flushing it out. I will run it by chinese.
>>
>>20932611

Price control then.
>>
>>20932614

This gets into freedom and rights..
That is what i am trying to preserve.
>>
>>20932614

Your thoughts are interesting. Some childish. They have merit.
>>
>>20932595
>>20932595
This post is off topic. Since homosextile janitors are warning me for reporting your off-topic posts, then NOT DELETING your off topic posts after they have been reported,due to an apparent erection they have for you (so hard, in fact, it's constantly ejaculating), I guess I have to do it myself.

>>20932579
Anon, care to carry on this convo and perhaps help us get the thread back on topic please?>>20932602
>>
Basically reformat farms and power generation.

Housing ideas as well please.
>>
>>20932605
embarrassing. 0/10 for the tired tropes.
>>
>>20932600
going to sleep soon come say hello
>>
Fuck the guy ill eat him.

You 3 on about economy continue.
>>
>>20932518
You have to have faith that the poison finds the right people. I find that it generally does.
>>
>>20932567
>Im keeping your mind
"No"

>>20932591
It appears the spirit of neolibralism has visited us on this blessed day

It's like the spirit of Christmas but instead of a jolly fat man reminding you of the importance of family through gift giving it is a sociopath in a suit pointing a finger at you and telling you to stay in line because there are people poorer than you and you wouldn't want to end up like them. >>20932605
"Mass production for profit fails when its markets are exhausted; so every effort is made to impose it not only on the native but the foreigner, and should guile fail, then force! But the process
ineluctably goes on; when the whole world buys the nasty stuff, and
will accept no other, the exploiter is still faced by diminishin returns. No possibility of expansion; sooner or later dividends
dwindle, and the business is bust. To even the most stupid it becomes
plain at this stage that war is wholly ruinous; organization breaks
down altogether; one meaningless revolution follows another; famine and pestilence complete the job

Was that a criticism of colonialism during the height of the British empire? What a radical leftist.

The point is you can find a Crowley quote to support any ideology, he was the kind of guy who learned by doing and in his social circle people were passing around Marxist, fascist, whatever new and shiny political literature they could because that stuff was still new and interesting.

He was consistently critical of capitalism because he bore witness to how it transformed his country, for good or Ill. Had he lived to the age of Bernays, he would have recognized consumerist ideology for what it was, a profoundly advanced form of sorcery that explicitly seeks to subdue the Will of the masses through subversive psychological means.
>choice

Choice is a spook lad
>>
BEfore I get b& just wanna say I'm a regular poster and contributer, got "warned" for trying to have off topic schizoposting deleted, and the janis aren't even deleting the reported posts. So if their priority was warning me, before deleting such posts, something funny is going on here /omg/
>>
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>>20932643
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4KA0mUnC8
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>>20932646

Fair.

I.came to same conclusion about mass production.

So a support system idea for global food and Money.

How can it tie into ai factories? While maintaining a "free" market.
>>
>>20932646
Oh, I absolutely detest consumerist ideology.

However, I also recognize the necessity for free trade.

If the state regulates what I do, what kind of work I perform, how much I get paid for it (see: fascism, communism), and then taxes me an unreasonable portion of my income compared to the services it renders unto me (see: socialism), that ain't cool.

If that money was well-spent, invested into infrastructure, and had reasonable outcomes in healthcare (e.g.), I'd be for it.

But the issue is, all organizations above a certain size boil down to nepotism and corruption.

I'm not sure what that size is, but I'm fairly confident it's between 15 and 30 people.

A government is thousands of times larger than that, and so it's only to be expected that it'll tend towards corruption.

On the other hand, if I can choose what I do, and what I trade it for, that allows me significantly more opportunities for growth and upwards economic mobility, because at that point I'm able to better take charge of my fate.
>>
>>20932678
Let the Ai do whatever, to many options you can't keep the charade.
>>
>>20932646

The only option i see is a shadow economy with $ as base and a pop starve off.

That is not what i would like to happen.
>>
>>20932684

Ok so we agree a sate run economy is more effective with a base.living that is fair.
>>
There's about 7 billion too many people on this planet, how do we fix this?
>>
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>>20931294
Make up a pseudonym, publish edgy books, make a youtube channel, get arrested for possesion of drugs and illegal firearms..
>>
>>20932686

The actual ai is insane. Nope. It has to remain bound or we are dead as fuck.
>>
>>20931139

who's the artwork by?
>>
>>20932684
>imagine being this spooked
>>
>>20932646
>>20932684

Alright..

Your ideas mixed with mine.

Infrastructure. And base fair level of living and care. Free medical.

Work on skill and passion based system.

Food we can produce enough to support a higher population.

Housing and rights to property. Thoughts.
>>
>>20932600
Ok mister telelarp, I'm going to think of an uncommon animal with a coloring that it wouldnt have in the wild. If you guess it right, cool. If you don't, I'm filtering you.
>>
>>20932602
The seal of the planets are for the intelligences of the planets itself and the alchemical symbols represent this and or that force or nature and can be used in conjunction with the planetary I think any anon can correct me or add on as I'm learning as well.
>>
There your mind is yours again..

Just think at chaos if you get any more ideas you 3.

Impressive minds.
>>
>>20932684
>then taxes me an unreasonable portion of my income compared to the services it renders unto me (see: socialism)

That's not what socialism is. There would be no taxes in a socialist society because there would be no money. "Democratic Socialism" is a meme.

>But the issue is, all organizations above a certain size boil down to nepotism and corruption

Agreed, so why don't we abolish most forms of hierarchy so those at the top cannot be alienated from their peers?

>upwards economic mobility

But then you'd just be the asshole taking money out of other people's pockets. I've lived around people of every class and the extent to which they can control their behavior and choose what they do with their money is minimal at best.

Charities are great but they act as a Neo indulgence system so our parasite class can feel better about their lives ultimately being at the expense of the labor of others. One could, when they get to that level, give up all their cash, but almost nobody does. Because once you get there there are so many investment opportunities and financial technologies available to you that your focus continues to be on earning wealth, thus capitalism as pathology.

Had Donald Trump put his inheretence in an index fund and sat on his fat ass eating hamburgers all day he would have made more many than if he had decided to live out his personal mogul fantasy. Even the rich are slaves to their passions, even for them their lives are an endless series of false binaries that they confuse with "freedom"
>>
>>20932123
gerald gardner was a woman?
>>
>>20932735
Raw material; mine and refine - https://archive.org/details/@hanzer
>>
>>20932735

That is my idea as well.

With ai % above should be 100%.
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The Ai isn't insane, we are.

Also making products, should be safe.
>>
>>20932754
>>20932767

I really try to be compassionate to people with Schizo pathology because that's just the right thing to do, but you need to recognize that nobody is responding to you so all you are doing is burning posts

Please see a professional, listen to their guidance, and return when you are Sure that other people genuinely understand your thoughts. The way you are processing shit is just not in alignment with other people's brains so nobody understands what you're on about
>>
>>20932735
>"Democratic Socialism" is a meme.
i dont think dem-soc can take us from capitalism to socialism, but it can PERHAPS make it easier. it depends on how aggressive that government is in nationalizing industries and increasing the wellbeing of as many citizens as possible. it could easily be used to agitate and educate a large amount of people, to make them more receptive to the future change in system.
but the problem is that the corporate pushback would be immense, and it can easily become an impotent waste of time. it's risky, and i dont know if it's worth the risk. it could turn into a situation that breeds complacency, which can be more impotent than the pessimistic crushing of the poor and many; the latter could develop into some sort of revolutionary fervor while complacency generally doesnt.
>tldr we put surgo in a gulag AND tax him at the same time
>>
>>20932781

Ok then i will take your mind.

Rebel dude ideas have more merit.
>>
>>20932705
Was wondering same. 'Tis tits. Also, anything to get the thread back on topic.
>>
>>20931139
ok guys

so have any of you recieved REAL iniciation? not the type of reading and doing pseudo rituals at all...

Been reading Blavatsky and Dion Fortune and both of them put emphasis on finding a real inner guide
>>
File: Aemethms.gif (24 KB, 250x249)
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ሰረቃኤል we danced before time and conquered all.

We forged the crown from horrors we committed. שריאל Tezcatlipoca Θώθ Fenrir Μορμώ BaʿalBerith
Setekh well met
Sekhmet
Shaitan
чёpт
Čert
Ahhahahahahhahahahah סַמָּאֵל
Naamah
Μορμών
נַעֲמָה
כְּנָעַן
Nahum
עֲזָאזֵל
Baphomet
Bastet
בַּעַל זְבוּב
בהמות
Ishtar
Kimaris
Coyote
דָּגוֹן
Damballa
διάβολος
Yama
Εὐρύνομος
ᾍδης
Ἑkάτη
Lilith
לִילִית
Fenrir
Demogorgon
Loki
Mammon
Mania
Marduk
Tawûsê Melek
Mephistopheles
Metztli
Mictian
Jörmungandr
מַלְכָּם
נֵרְגַל
Yamarāja
Πάν
Pan
Περσεφόνη
Pluto
Proserpina
Rimmon
Sabazios
Supay
Τυφῶν

Soleil
kvikasilfur
金星
bumi
Mars
Юпитep
kuthuthwa
Uran
Hяптyн

And above all chaos the creator.

I offer these to you. Leave the "rebel" be.
>>
>>20932556
>>20932576
>>20932579
???
>>20932717
There are seals for "Intelligence" "Spirit" sometimes "Intelligency of Intelligences" (see Luna) and "Seal of (planet name). At least that's how my version has it.
>>
>>20932812
>recieved REAL iniciation
yes
>Been reading Blavatsky
ugh
>>
>>20932812
>pseudo rituals
The initiation ritual, according to some, places the aspirant in fertile soil in which "True Initiation" may take place.
>>
>>20932828
>the initiation ritual
I'm not referring to one rite in particular, just any well-thought out, well executed rite that accomplishes what it proposes to accomplish
>>
>>20932784
I wouldn't refer to myself as a socialist per se. I would argue that the future of leftism doesn't lie in theory but in actual laboratories of doing and being. So I would advocate a return to the commune system. In these communes the ethical issues that occur when theory meets practice could be resolved in a somewhat empirical sense. There was a time not so long ago in America where the social organization was essentially a distributed set of small communities that genuinely cared for each other. I think that form of social organization is better for America and much more in line with the American spirit than being stuffed into boxes in traffic ridden overcrowded cities where nobody would give a fuck about you if you died in the street.

Suggest this to a contemporary internet leftist and they will look at you like you kicked their dog. There is no more surefire way to piss off an internet tankie than to ask them how their commune is doing. The reality is that most internet leftists are sad losers who larp about fossilized ideologies as a form of escapism. Real politics happens in the streets, not in your fucking head. We don't have to wait for some magical revolution to happen in order to change the world. What if capitalism doesn't collapse before we annihilate the planets ecology beyond any repair? The revolution must happen now, not under the voting box or the guillotine but in the minds of people and in the choices they make. If you think you have to wait for "something" to happen before you live your values then you have no values at all
>corporate pushback
Of course that would happen, and I have no doubt that any real economic shift would result in extreme violence from our benefactors. Thus one must be prepared for violence if one is really about that life.

The truth is Americans should already be on the street but we are programmed to be complacent cowards.
>>20932794
You think you have my mind but all you will take from me is poison.
>>
>>20932820
That's similar to what I've read I apologize I don't have it all memorized and have no sources at my availability. I should add that by forces I mean elements or what have you but I'm sure that was implied.
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>>20932812
Of course.
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>>20932705
Sorry, no clue. I have it from one of these threads, I think from 2014?

>>20932735
>But then you'd just be the asshole taking money out of other people's pockets.
If you do it by trading them goods which exceed the value they perceive in the amount of money you're asking, what's the issue?

>>20932812
Yeah I took Minerval in the OTO.
And I have several Reiki initiations (attunements).
And I've been baptized Orthodox Christian.

And I've done Ars Paulina and spoken to what (at the time) I believed to be my HGA. But over time, I realized that wasn't the real deal, and instead was a projection of my faults.

And technically I'm self-initiated into 2=9 A.'.A.'..

I've papers confirming I'm 1=10, but they're from a worthless lineage (Rovelli).

I benefited immensely from all of these experiences, whether directly or indirectly.

Fuck the Inner Guide.
>>
>>20932843
if you havent already, read some stuff written by the situationist international. particularly these:
http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/8
http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/5
http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/4
stuff by tiqqun and the invisible committee are insightful as well. theres a lot of good stuff to read out there that isnt tired old tankie bullshit and outdated garbage that has no use in current times.
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>>20932860
>what's the issue?
>you recognize consumerist ideology is bad

You do realize that consumerism one of the mechanism by which the rich fuck everyone else right?

You have an incredibly specific cognitive deficit that has something to do with the abstract nature of psychological processes, no offense. I suspect that is why you are so hung up on empiricism, because you appear to have an issue connection abstraction to real world causal effects
>fuck the inner guide
Oh I plan to
>>
>>20932860
Why "Technically" self-initiated? What do the papers matter if they're from a useless lineage? IJS, if I was qualified for a job already, and I was at the interview, I wouldn't say "Uh yeah, I also went to Trump University"
>>
>>20932875
Severe Depression and Clever Silliness.

https://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

I fail to see how people spending money how they choose is a bad thing.

I mean, that's literally what I want for myself. I want to trade with people on good, mutually beneficial terms, and over time, save some up, and engage in larger trades.

That people deliberately choose to spend their money in dumb ways is their own fault.

>>20932888
Technically, because this hasn't been recognized by any third parties - all that I've got for that is my own word.
>>
For scrying the Tattvas, is it better to simply paste each Tattva on a black background, or should the background be the opposite/"flashing" color of the Tattva?
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>>20932897
>Not taking the Oath in the Presence of the Great Angel Hua
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>>20932897
the dude who's not self-aware is shaming people who aren't self-aware for spending money in dumb ways because they aren't self-aware. were reaching meme levels i didnt think were possible.
people with severe depression have extremely warped views of themselves and of the world around them. even more so when they think themselves to be high iq.
>>
>>20932823
>>20932828
>>20932856
>>20932860

what supernatural experiences have you had after iniciation?
>>
>>20932937
I'm aware of this. Issue is, what the fuck do I do to un-warp myself?

I've done everything with the exception of medication, which I am reluctant to do for obvious reasons.
>>
>>20932905
Black background.
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>>20932951
honestly? i have no idea. you seem to have done quite a lot of stuff and i dont think i can suggest much that is new. maybe visit a herbalist or naturopath, and take some natural antidepressants like st john's wort or other plants (you can look into this yourself or visit the herbalist who might have some tricks up his sleeve). i understand not wanting to take artificial medication. other than that, you can nuke your brain with something like:
>an hour a day of pranayama to feed the brain and organs with more oxygen
>concentration meditation
>maybe some vipassana?
>asanas, bandhas, mudras
>tai chi/qigong
>maybe some karma yoga/volunteer at some places that make you feel like youre giving back to the community or helping people in need
how long have you been depressed? were you depressed before you got married? how is your diet? do you exercise regularly?
>>
>>20932897
But you almost have the opposite problem as the one described in the article. While the scientific genius might get their mind warped by engaging in ever finer acts of reductionism, to the point where they lose touch with consensus reality, you on the other hand get trapped by the false images of grandiose concepts

Consider your understanding of choice, you say that people spending their money for foolish ends is their own fault so fuck it, and in some sense I agree. But what if you have the misfortune of being born poor? Then choice is a luxury you generally don't have. Chances are you'll have to give up school to help your families finances, or you'll just get a shit quality education. The poor never really get a choice because they are fucked from the beginning.

If you view big complex systems like the human mind and the economy hyper mechanisticallly then ensnaring yourself in dogma is a constant possibility. One thing I leaned from studying neuroscience is that, while the brain is an enormous and irreducible set of mechanisms acting in unison, the outcome of those mechanisms cannot be reduced to a simple set of theories. It simply isn't possible, the system is too great.

So I suppose I am put off by your mechanistic approach to mind and being, demonstrated by many of your interests. I think hypnosis does something, as does any form of social hacking or manipulation. I enjoyed that Google drive you posted here and I found some of those books quite valuable. But I think the ideologies those books demonstrate are often poisonous. Consider the difference between pick up artists and people who can just regular go on a date. Nobody actually likes pick up artists, but if their practices ease your social anxieties to the point where you can go get laid I think there is nothing wrong with that. But then stop being a pick up artist, because they are creeps. It's the kind of thing where you have to give up the vehicle once you reach the destination.
>>
Where can I get more info on Wicca? Also how do I not feel like such a bitch for being into it? I love reading about it in the park owo
>>
>>20933010
>https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

>"Wicca" folder
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>>20933027
Where do I start with it
>>
>>20933033
Reading.
>>
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>>20932241
Mailed you finally, took me a couple days to write it all up. Take your time, it's a lot.

>>20932897
>'medical hypothesis'
>gorillion word essay predicated on the existence of completely arbitrary terms like 'clever sillies' and 'common sense'

This is like 12000 words of this dude masturbating about his own intelligence and why he's a sperglord, in a publication basically black listed by medical community for being absolute shit. Did I mention this guy was editor at the time he wrote this?

lol
>>
>>20932945
pls respond
>>
>>20933033
Look at the titles of the Documents. If you're interested in how modern Wicca (no, I'm not implying there was an ancient Wicca!) came about, choose accordingly. If you're interested in the diferent sects of Wicca, choose accordingly. If you're interested in jumping right into the Practice asap, choose accordingly (although you're still going to need to study and read after you start practicing, in addition to experimenting). This is not Bran Scientist
>>
>>20933042
https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ895169

This is a pretty good read.
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Also anyone seen this?
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>>20933072
BTW the third option, "jumping right into practice asap" is almost always the best option, so long as one does not neglect to study in conjunction with practice. Much moderation, common sense, and judgement must be exercised in these endeavors if you are to gain anything beneficial from them.
>>
>>20933126
Im not interested in working around that particular pay wall for whatever that article has to say about nonsense.
>>
>>20933161
It's a fairly in-depth breakdown of the nonsense. Turns out even though the original article is very wrong, the topic is significantly more complex than I previously believed.
>>
>>20933168
I preferred it when it was just the opening of idiocracy, that was at least funny and not purporting to be a scientific document.
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>>20933130
No that one particularly but familiar with most of the symbols.
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>>20932945
More than I care to recount. Everything from poltergeist activity, to demonic/angelic possession, to time glitches, to 'enlightenment'.
>>
>>20933161
>>20933168
I fucks with this

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.learner.org/workshops/socialstudies/pdf/session3/3.MultipleIntelligences.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjjhN6C9tPbAhUiG5oKHVuECdEQFjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1lkuOoROZ89xCKf6fPTATI

Although it isn't perfect either, there will always be some degree of subjectivity to analysis based on behavior.
>>
>>20933126
>high iq
>common sense
>charlton's hypothesis
Is this an episode of punk'd?
>>20933176
What do you mean by time glitches?
>>
>>20933176
>>20933186

yes pls elaborate
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>>20933182
Yeah see, now this is a hypothesis.

I even like the fact they considered spiritual intelligence and existential intelligence but lacked the grounds for inclusion based on their premises of what constitutes an intelligence, good shit.
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>>20932713
I guess purple elephant but only because of fucking daniel c dennett
>>20932330
I'm surprised to see Venus plays such a heavy part, I wouldn't have expected. it's the benefic of the sect in power in my chart, not to mention that it's exalted in pisces. makes me realize I don't really have a very good grasp on that planet at all, which is not exactly news to me...I bought a book of poetry by Linda Goodman on Venus, that felt like a good medium for learning about her steez.
If you wanted a chart for your own thing I bet you could rectify a chart to get it reasonably close. I did it. Before you asked for the info, I'd had the date wrong, 2 weeks after the actual date. I looked at the wrong chart and said to myself "this would make a lot more sense if it was 2 weeks earlier...then we'd have the direct square between transit and natal mars." So I checked through my emails to see if I could get a more precise time and found the intake emails from my dr and realized that yes, it was in fact 2 weeks earlier when the mars square was exact.

>>20933130
a screenshot from Strange Angel?

>>20933042
WOW. Thank you sincerely from the bottom of my heart for actually putting so much into this. Some astro?

>>20932990
>while the brain is an enormous and irreducible set of mechanisms acting in unison, the outcome of those mechanisms cannot be reduced to a simple set of theories. It simply isn't possible, the system is too great.
Yuss
>So I suppose I am put off by your mechanistic approach to mind and being, demonstrated by many of your interests.
The problem isn't mechanistic understanding, it's that it's stupid-simplistically mechanistic, as you observed, it is not the point's to grasp the circle. as long as you're interested in insipidly reducing the irreducible, you're going to have a stupid framework. "naturalistic mechanism" is a perfectly reasonable thought framework for understanding reality, so long as you hold it loosely. this is my hill i will die on it.
>>
>>20933186
Chronological aberrations, hinky cause and effect, that sort of thing, not necessarily time magic as such.
>>
https://deepmind.com/blog/neural-scene-representation-and-rendering/
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>>20933234
>I guess purple elephant but only because of fucking daniel c dennett
that was what i thought at first but then i realized it's too generic. so i went with purple camel.
>>20933237
chronological abberations similar to psychedelics where time feels longer or shorter?
>>
>>20933042
whoops, had to edit my last post down for brevity and my reply no longer makes sense. The "some astro?" bit is- I offer you reciprocal knowledge sharing because this is so much knowledge you just dropped on me and I am very very grateful. I'll take my time reading through this thoroughly.
>>
>>20933251
No.
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>>20933206
I took so many developmental Psych classes in college that it might as well have been my minor. This specific theory has had extraordinary effects when applied in pre schools and early child education generally. You can really catch a kids cognitive deficits early before they get deep into the meat grinder that is our school system.

Unfortunately they only really utilize this now at rich person private schools, it will be decades before the government gets its shit together to really make it useful for everyone.
>>20933234
>naturalistic mechanism

I was thinking about David Chiam Smith and his exceeding genius at making alchemical machines that have both a divine and very organic quality. Because his work begins with the precept of Sunyata his systems don't have to be bound by mechanistic limitation. Beings come into existence to give adoration to the Holy and then fade out without attachment to their own being. Prayers are endlessly whispered without anyone doing the praying. Endless worlds are coming in and out of existence without a hierarchy and without a God.

There can be a reduction and purification without anything to reduce or purify, because the alchemical gold is the very nature of change itself. It is systematic without being limiting, moving and even progressing without linearity.

Very heady stuff when treated like a Mandala.
>>
>>20933285
then what? can you describe it a bit?
>>
>>20933252
I sort of gathered that, I mean yeah I'm always open to learning more.

For me astro has always been a thing which is difficult to get into, lot's of fiddly bits and lockpicking for the meaning to get conveyed. It's something I probably eventually need to understand beyond the basic stuff, but damned if it hasn't always eluded me. Like I said I have a basic functional understanding of the art, but as soon as it starts getting into the more complicated interpretations of like, decanates and sub rulers and degrees of this or that and trines of squares of aspected nodes, my eyes start glazing over.

Astro for the illiterate maybe?
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>>20933287
>This specific theory has had extraordinary effects when applied in pre schools and early child education generally.

I can see how it would, and I can see how the education system would be resistant to viewing children as individuals and not, essentially, livestock. In their defense trying to make a curriculum tailored around an individuals unique mixture of eight measurable intelligences is fucking daunting, especially considering the piss-poor salaries we saddle our teachers with.

I mean they're only training and educating the future of the world, but maybe that's worth a little more financial respect than we currently give it and try an educational system that's structured on something that looks less like the penal system.
>>
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>>20933237
I had the dumbest one of these once, but was still deeply alarming because I frankly didn't expect it to work

>>20932293
>psychological and scientific endeavors become entirely meaningless.

>Sure, one can find some sense of purpose in family, work, etc.

>But that's hardly satisfactory when you're aware that everything you do or say is wholly devoid of intrinsic value.
If so then you can either "kill yourself or have a cup of coffee" as Camus would say. What do we mean by intrinsic? Like should there be a meaning-particle that we can grasp between tweezers and say "here, here it is, here is the meaning!" What do you think meaning is? If intrinsic means "essential, belonging naturally," then meaning is too complex to be essential and natural! Like carbon is intrinsically ordered as it is, but if you increase the magnification on your electron microscope you see that the fact that those particular constituent pieces took the shape of carbon is just as purely circumstantial as everything else. Why would you subject
"meaning" to these rigorous examinations? Meaning is the wave, not the particle, when you observe it it's rendered static and no longer the meaningful thing, just the shell of where meaning once was, like a husk. It's like a living breathing animal and it gets crushed when we try to look at it this way.
"Intrinsic value" what has that got to do with literally anything? consciousness is the only thing remotely capable of assigning "value" to an experience, and without the participation of the consciousness there's no experience experience to begin with! let alone an intrinsic meaning to be assigned to it.

>Astrology seems like a worthwhile pursuit, but somehow nobody bothers to study it in appreciable depth.
Can't relate. I know a lot of people who study it in appreciable depth.
>>
What does omg think of Aurum Solis' "Tempus Eversionis"? Good idea? Silly? Applicable in some cases? (???)?
>>
>>20933349
>Like should there be a meaning-particle that we can grasp between tweezers and say "here, here it is, here is the meaning!"

Yes. I'd call that God.

>I know a lot of people who study it in appreciable depth.

Do you have any studies that I could read?

I've been looking for something that'd be done by people who are actually competent for a while now.
>>
>>20933287
>Because his work begins with the precept of Sunyata his systems don't have to be bound by mechanistic limitation.
Yes, everything you just said is basically exactly what i was banging on about the other night when you were saying you were not a fan of the level of "clockwork mechanism" imagery employed in astrology. "Like a clock" can be a functional mode of understanding the "rules" without it necessarily being mistaken as being the literal nature of reality. it just like, is what it is, and in order to translate it to "intellectual mind" we need the illusion of something systemic and rule based. that's why I say "loosely held," like you should literally be prepared to loosen your hands at any moment and let it fall like sand through your fingers til you're holding the nothing that Is. not to get poetic.

>>20933294
>as soon as it starts getting into the more complicated interpretations of like, decanates and sub rulers and degrees of this or that and trines of squares of aspected nodes, my eyes start glazing over.
frankly you don't need any of that shit. some people get things when it's broken down into a million pieces but it doesn't make them a better reader than someone who isn't doing that.
>>
>>20933289
For example, results routinely begin to appear before Enochian ops actually occur. It's one assurance that the thing is on course to occur.
>>
>>20933408
How awkward.
>>
>>20933401
>it doesn't make them a better reader than someone who isn't doing that.
Maybe not, you'd certainly know better than I would in that regard, but as a for instance, it would be nice to know what you and shades are going on about when you're examining charts or whatever, because most of that is lost on me.
>>
>>20933308
But Sevis, you have to understand, the job creators whose sole motivations are to rise to the top on others backs are contributing so much more value to society than people who serve the public. What value does a teacher produce? Not one that can be very easily reduced into a cost/benefit analysis (although they often try, using really iffy statistics as Neo liberalism is built on fudged numbers). If value can't be turned into a number it may as well not try!
>>20933401
>clockwork mechanism

I mean to reiterate I had a specific issue with Austin Coppacks approach, where I feel like I got all the build up of this intricate system and none of the obliteration, like at what point are you so refined and balanced as a person that the intricate understanding of the way the planetary rays are imprinting on you becomes no longer necessary?

Is he the one who is a Kr*shnacuck or is that your other teacher? I might be racist against him for that reason.

Hey is this a good overview:
https://www.iep.utm.edu/astr-hel/#SH3c

>>20933408
This has happened to me with every system I have worked with, even old school mystical kabbalah
>>
>>20933412
Not at all.

>>20933462
Not surprising. The ripples from such actions seem to spread both forward and backward through time.
>>
>>20933462
>you have to understand
Oh I understand, it's why I drink.

Idea:
Declare all school children product. Make businesses and/or the military pay for acquiring them, or for recruiting from specific school districts. Children can pay off the debt incurrred by the business to through unpaid work, thus discharging their social obligation for education.

As supply and demand for children shifts, and we see which school districts are more in demand from companies for their higher quality graduates, we'll be able to qualify the value of teachers as contributors to the economy and pay them commensurate with their training of new workers.

Heck, we could even extend it to immigrating population as well in order to train and integrate them into being productive colonial citizens.

That's an innovative idea that's never been tried, that can't end poorly, certainly.
>>
>>20933547
It very much is. The reason is, you confounded my understanding of what was going when I was attempting to scry the aethyrs.

I was getting quite a bit of interference, especially in my dreams about the time I made the decision to go for it, and I was convinced that it was my mind getting prepared, psyching myself up.

And now I'm left in doubt, whether it was that or time-fuckery, given how uncannily certain elements seemed to repeat.
>>
>>20933462
>mean to reiterate I had a specific issue with Austin Coppacks approach, where I feel like I got all the build up of this intricate system and none of the obliteration,
I think you mean Chris Brennan. I wouldn't expect any obliteration in the text because that text is designed to teach astrology, not mysticism.
>like at what point are you so refined and balanced as a person that the intricate understanding of the way the planetary rays are imprinting on you becomes no longer necessary?
I think it starts unnecessary. My teacher for example never looks at his own chart, he just wakes up at dawn, reads the Gita and prays.
>Is he the one who is a Kr*shnacuck or is that your other teacher? I might be racist against him for that reason.
That's my teacher. I wouldn't personally call him "cucked," maybe because I have an actual, nuanced understanding of his spirituality built up from 100 hours of interacting with him, as opposed to just the admittedly easily-dismissible title "Kr*shnite." It's like thinking a Catholic priest is a pleb because of what the fundies are up to. His approach to his personal spirituality is, as he put it, to water the tree with trust, and not mess around manipulating individual branches. Hence, he doesn't have a use for like planetary magic and the associated practices that sometimes accompany astrology. I'm sort of with him, but that's not where I'm at right now in terms of the degree of stimulation that comes from "making things complicated" that I seem to need to stay focused on the spiritual path.

>>20933547
>The ripples from such actions seem to spread both forward and backward through time.
I feel like this is the mechanism of synchronicity, or at least a part of it. You're just getting hit with the consequences of your future self's activities. That's why I try to not overly let the stream of synchronicity dictate my actions, because it's sort of like trying to follow my own ass-end around...
>>
>>20932713
Cyan ostrich
>>
>>20933547
>forward and backward through time

Totally. I've even noticed it happening on long arcs and gradients, like I know I am about to get more intensely into my practice because I've recently been having visions and visits from entities, even when my current practice should necessarily be producing those results.

>>20933563
You bet your ass that if we upgraded the burocracy of school systems to military tier we would at the very least have smarter, albeit damaged kids.

The tragedy of this country's pathetic obsession with religious education is that some religious educational institutions are sublime at teaching kids how to teach themselves and some are just Jesus-y day care centers.
>>20933573
I haven't touched Enochian too much but for me there is a noticeable difference between "this is a border for you, don't fuck with it" kind of feelings and "I am about to do a successful ritual and I'm feeling it" kind of feelings

>>20933585

>Chris Brennen

Whoops
>astrology, not mysticism

I mean a lot of the other astrology texts I've read, even in the general lineage of Greek astrology have been pretty mystical, so maybe that's just what I prefer. The Neo Pythagorians didn't make too much of a distinction between mystical understandings of the planets and astrological clockwork. Isn't the thing in itself kind of mystical anyway? It requires the assumption that the planets are some kind of force or represent an intelligence that is acting on us

Im sorry I called your teacher a Krshna cuck, I have met good Krishnites even if the most visible incarnation of that force in the west is a garbage institution with garbage people attached to it.

>water the tree with trust

That's very Krishna-y

I think I just have profound philosophical disagreements with any sort of fatalism. Hard fatalism and hard Free Will always come across as exceptionally arrogant to me, and almost disrespectful to the fluid nature of the universe itself.
>>
>>20933585
>trying to follow my own ass-end around...
you are kink shaming and this dog is triggered.
>>
>>20933645
>upgraded the burocracy of school systems to military tier

Probably, it seems to work for places that have very rigid and regimental education practices elsewhere. That wasn't really what I was getting at though.

I was implying that the only natural conclusion to a system which views any human strictly by their economic contribution, is a chattel based system of indentured servitude which views people as product.
>>
>>20933408
Yeah wtf is up with that? The first time it happened to me I thought I was dreaming or something.
>>
>>20933684
Just the way it is.
>>
>>20933645
Is it not arrogant to claim that you posses an understanding of the universe?
>>
>>20933715
What are the Satyr-approved elemental attributions for the Watchtowers, if I might ask?
>>
>>20933645
>Im sorry I called your teacher a Krshna cuck,
The problem I have with his thing is that he seems to think it's actively ensnaring us in more Karma to do anything BUT water the tree as a spiritual path. I don't agree. I can see why you'd have a skewed perspective of his krishna-y tendencies, because the only time i really go on about them is when I'm hashing out my own frustrations with it.
>astrology, not mysticism
Was the introduction to the book one of the couple segments you read? He explains that he is 1 part historian and 1 part practicing astrologer. For my part I take sort of a >>20933715 -style approach. I've seen it the language of the stars express deaths, accidents, trauma, marriage as . I don't know why it works, just that I've witnessed it work. and the Hellenes did a damn fine job of teaching how to get it to work. I don't think that the stars *cause* events, I see them as like a chorus singing, narrating the dramas of your life like an opera as it occurs. I don't know how to reconcile the fact that the circumstances of the life are discernible in a chart with my belief in free will.

The system at large, not astrology, but the entire system of manifestation, is too complicated in my opinion for the "how does it work" to be discernible (fatalism being just one possible explanation). Just because mechanism that is turning the gears isn't visible though doesn't mean that we can't discern the way in which the gears turn- the *results* of the mechanisms are discernible. The "rules" of astrology are visible effects of something obscure to us. We can't use the same style of rule-based, intellectual thinking to discern that, the mechanism in my mind is the movement of God's body. You even see it in imagery like pic related, we're apprehending the wheel, not what turns it.

>I think I just have profound philosophical disagreements with any sort of fatalism.
I just don't presume to know, here.

>>20933462
I'll come back to this article
>>
>>20933819
Same as Crowley/GD.
>>
Is role playing part of the fun of occult
>>
As long as we're talk about ritual work, I've got a question. Things have been coming to me in the following format. First, the general concept comes, more than a month out. Then, slowly, the basic skeleton gets filled in. Next, I get the tools down, a few weeks out to the start date. Then I get the actual details and go-ahead date very, very close to when things need to actually kick-off.

It's rather annoying because I wind up scrambling a bit in the home stretch. Even though I tend to have my ear to the ground from the first whisper, things seem to come at this pace. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong like not paying close enough attention?

I've gotten major temporal ripple effects, for sure, so it's not like results aren't there. But I'm wondering if there's something I could do to smooth things out a bit and give myself a more comfortable window to prepare in. Is the solution to just meditate more? I also have some divinatory tools that I could probably use more often.

>tl;dr: What do you guys do when you sense you're in a run-up to something?
>>
>>20933893
Yo, Cap-anon here. I sent you several emails, let me know if you got all the stuff.
>>
>>20933930
AH sorry amigo, in my head I already enthusiastically replied to you! But now I realize I must have just started reading Cosmos and Psyche before getting pulled off by work. Yes! got it! Attachments all look great. Will reply to you in earnest when I get home.
>>
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>>20933811
From that perspective it is arrogant to have beliefs about anything because every belief by definition is in some way about the universe

And perhaps in some way it is, but I am just arrogant enough to come to a few select conclusions

>>20933893
>I don't know why it works, just that I've witnessed it work

I have zero doubt about whether or not it works as I have personally witnessed it and incorporated astrological conclusions into my practice.

>I don't think that the stars *cause* events, I see them as like a chorus singing, narrating the dramas of your life like an opera as it occurs

I absolutely agree and my most ascientific personal belief is the belief that celestial bodies are in some sense alive and their radiences indicate something resembling intelligence.

>we're apprehending the wheel, not what turns it.

I feel that although I think even in the densest and dumbest understanding of astrology there are hints if you can read between the lines.

I do like astrology and appreciate that you are developing a genuine expertise that has been demonstrated on numerous occasions

>>20933918
I'm in this process now and for me it is an indication to re double my practice and build positive routines

Pranayama every day, Bhakti yoga every day, mantra recitation when I have idle time

Reconnecting with old currents while also exploring new avenues, because for me when I get out of a funk it all kind of just happens at once
>>
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>>20933978
>Pranayama every day, Bhakti yoga every day, mantra recitation when I have idle time

Point taken. Thanks for the advice.

>>20933930
>>
>>20933978
>I feel that although I think even in the densest and dumbest understanding of astrology there are hints if you can read between the lines.
Mm. Mhm. I guess I just am trying to express that we shouldn’t confuse the cloak for the wearer, if that makes sense. I’m not saying the shape of it can’t be seen in its movements, because the idea that it absolutely can be is near and dear to the heart of my own spirituality. The movement of the wheel is a finger pointing, and I think Brennan in particular is very interesting in describing the metatarsals, the knuckles, the way the skin slides over each one. I’m not sure if he believes as I do that in discerning these movemements, we can get a sense of what motion the body of god is making.
>>
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>>20934095
Yw
>>20934123
I see what you're saying. It's like how I find some scientific writers to be remarkable and describing their craft and pointing at something, even if I may not agree with their personal beliefs or ultimate conclusion
>>
>>20933978
There is a big difference between understanding elements within the universe and understanding the workings of universe itself.

I believe that understanding our limitations as human beings can bring us closer to the divine.

>I am just arrogant enough to come to a few select conclusions
Fairly normal human reaction when dealing with anything beyond our comprehension, imo.
>>
>>20934161
Totally. Also ignore the fact that the metatarsals are in the foot
>>
I honestly don't understand the occult. Only Wicca makes sense to me but it's too girly and feminine minded.
>>
>>20934327
Maybe if you didn’t think it was wrong to be girly you could actually practice the style of spirituality you connect with, but noo
>>
>>20934327
Try Ananda Marga tantra.
Men dance with skulls and daggers every day.
Some of the most hardcore occult practitioners, if you know where to look.
>>
>>20934327
>Only Wicca makes sense to me
then youre already lost
>>
>>20931139
what is the most you've ever gotten from dealing with goetia lads?

im wanting to know a good gauge of what i could get before i try with marbas, botis, furfur, orias, seir, or paimon
>>
>>20934355
Why the FUCK would I want to be overtly girly when I'm a man lol? I can't transition to mtf so why would I do that?

>>20934365
Based I gotta check that out.
I don't mind feminine stuff just I don't want to be feminine appealing idk

>>20934378
Cringe
>>
who’s got the plug on streaming strange angel?
>>
>>20934444
I will not argue about gender essentialism on 4chan and just leave you to your frustrations then.
>>
>>20934458
It's nothing personal but I called myself a witch the other day and they laughed at me. My muscles are bulging and I'm hairy as fuck. I can't call myself a witch
>>
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>>20934494
>>
>>20934444
youre the one that's cringey. most occultists view wicca as a meme or a stepping stone to something more complex and serious (at best). wicca isnt even overly feminine unless all youre looking at is silver ravenwolf books and other assorted garbage. wicca was started by a man. pic related, look at this madman. if youre gonna hang around new age women named linda hawkcuck, then yeah, youre probably going to stand out or feel emasculated. if youre interested in witchcraft, but wicca isnt for you, check out the cultus sabbati (caution, this shit is not entry level) or look into historical witch sects from all over the world. witchcraft is such a broad field that even a bunch of african traditional religions have witches and witchcraft. you clearly havent even gone below the surface level. try harder.
>ps if calling yourself a witch makes you feel like a sissy cuck, call yourself a warlock. it's probably equally cringey in the eyes of most people but at least it isnt feminine, which seems to be super important to your insecurity.
>>
>>20934494
Grathiath theñor
>>
>>20934515
I don't really care for super edgy weird stuff. I just want to appreciate nature.
>>
>>20934622
you don't need wicca for that.
>>
>>20934622
then go do peyote with some natives
>>
At the end of the day occult is whatever you make of it
>>
>>20934677
>t. postmodern normie
>>
>>20934622
>appreciating nature is for girls
Someone get the ghost of John Muir on the line and tell him he was a sissy. while this sentiment is very wrong, if everyone agreed with you it would be way easier to book campgrounds in the high season, so I’m torn.

>>20934677
Maybe the real occultism is the friends we met along the way
>>
>>20934742
>Maybe the real magick is the friends we met along the way

FTFY
>>
Yeah I'm going to study occult more in depth. This Wiccan stuff has me insanely interested. I have one final goal in mind with it but nobody can help me with what I want so I have to find it myself...
>>
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>>20934768
>>
What does it mean to pour one’s own blood in the cup of babalon?
>>
>>20934772
>I have one final goal in mind with it but nobody can help me with what I want so I have to find it myself...
out of curiosity, what might that be?
>>
>>20934742
>John Muir
ikr, look at him here, this is clearly excessively feminine behavior right here, Roosevelt might as well be wearing a skirt.
>>
>>20934780
A lot of things but the two obvious metaphors are: Total and final devotion to Our Scarlet Woman of the Apocalypse and Saint of Harlotry. Another is the submit your work to the public (wherein is the blood of saints, etc.).
>>
>>20934803
its not funny when I forget the pic.
>>
>>20934777
Someone illustrated an /omg/ thread

>>20934808
Ikr what a straight cuck (as an aside, did you know this is one of the first popular uses of photoshop?)
>>
>>20934828
Not like...adobe photoshop, obviously
>>
>>20934828
What do you mean?
Photo composites? I mean Roosevelt did actually go out to Yosemite to see Muirr in 1903, its documented way beyond that photo.
>>
>>20934857
I meant my pic, he didn’t ride a bullmoose. Exactly, it was photo editing. That trip was most of the reason we have a National Park system, definitely happened ha
>>
>>20934883
>didn’t ride a bullmoose
Yeah but the impressive part isn't that he did/didn't ride a bullmoose, it's that it's at least partially believable that he did and it was necessary to debunk. I mean you can't tell me Teddy didn't ask Muirr if he knew where a bullmoose was so he could at least TRY to ride it. Crazy fucker.
>>
>>20934921
I for one completely bought the bullmoose ride story. TR national park is hecking nice btw if you ever find yourself in North Dakota. Ton of coyotes.
>>
Wicca is the first path to my greatness
Goodnight everyone
>>
>>20935048
Goodluck my friend, I wish you the best, perhaps you'll find meaning :)
>>
I glimpse at the sun and don't see an entity with the head of a lion and the body of a snake, this is bullshit
>>
>>20935066
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmoco8XqPA
>>
>>20935074
Great song.
>>
>>20935081
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic2cVpBefQM
>>
>>20935097
>>20935081
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN6pT3zL44
(Epilepsy warning)
>>
Does anyone here on /omg/ have any experience with Succubi?
>>
>>20935110
Yeah, my wife! Eyyyyyyyyyyyy
>>
>>20935110
O' Ruha Azh'ra Qarina, Lady of the South-western Airt!
Guardian of the Left-hand Pillar at the Copper Gate of Africanus!

We bid Thee to hear us and to be here with us!
Be Thou before us as the Azure-eyed Seductress, the Succubus of All-
Spacious Heaven, a-creeping in a thousand forms
to inhabit the earthen bed of fidelity.
Come forth to parade in the shaded porch of mortal worships temple;
to sell Thy wares for the souls of the pious, and to pleasure Thyself
in the bountiful harvest of each and every mortal grain.

O' Come Thou forth in grand array, garbed in the mirage of carnal lust,
to cast the glamour of each heart's desire and lure all flesh to Thy charm.
In Thy four hands bear forth the signs of Thy dominion:-
a hag-stone hung on a dream-knotted thread;
a silver sickle to reap the earthen meadows of corn;
a copper vase of philtres, for the drunken delights of the world;
and a cornucopia - a gnarled horn, filled with the fruits of thorn and vine.

O' Ruha Azh 'ra-qart"na, Lady of Africanus, be Thou here among us.
By the fruits of the earth and by the hagstone, we bid Thee to empower us.
>>
Are tulpas omg? They take a lot of effort to make and use the same visualization techniques as other magick disciplines.
>>
>>20935152
They are but you shouldn't it's just inviting a psychosis.
>>
>>20935165
How is that inviting a psychosis?
Anyway I have to sleep. Goodnight omg
>>
>>20935066
you need to stare longer
>>
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So I'm reading this book and it's talking about what each color represents in herbal magic, but it never refers to black, silver, or gold. The book mentioned it would not include anything related to 'negative' magic practice, do those colors fall into that? I'm just curious, my interests deal more with having a clear mind and possibly removing hexes.
>>
>>20936237
This is a decent general reference book, the newer version with the toxicity and medical contra-indication codes is especially good.

I would encourage you to basically ignore everything Cunningham says that is not basic correspondences and attributions (and you'll want to double check those against other sources, 777, magicians tables, etc.). His magical advice, color correspondences and his irritating morality speeches really have no place in the text, they were shoehorned in and it shows.

Black, silver, and gold in no way fall into "negative" practices any more than any other color. It's this kind of confusion that makes this shit out of Cunningham so irritating.

If you want some basic correspondences and whatever:
Black is usually used in exorcistic or otherwise 'diminishing' work. It's also frequently used in ancestral practices, new moon rites and 1000 other places. Black is "negative" but "negative" != "spooky and bad". Thats reductionist stupidity.
Gold and silver are solar and lunar respectively.
They're sort of more recent additions to candle techniques because we haven't really been able to do reasonable metallics for very long.
You can use gold and silver in any application where lunar or solar would be needed, or replace them with a more traditional color corespondences (yellow/orange/amber for solar, white/blue for lunar).

It's a decent reference for doing quick and dirty correspondence checking, I have one, I use it, but there are errors, poor correspondences and the aforementioned shoe-horned and political bullshit. Check out 777, Magicians Tables, Viridarian Umbris, Veneficium (and some of the other stuff in CS) and honestly if you plan on continuing with wort cunning my biggest recommendation is to try to ween yourself off the books asap and start to understand the process yourself by working directly with living plants and letting them teach you properly.
>>
Anyone have any experiences/thoughts on Scarlet Imprint books?
>>
>>20936534
>Scarlet Imprint
There's at least five or six of their books in the library, you could read them yourself and make an opinion, but they're in the library so that should tell you something...
>>
Where does the Lord's Prayer fit into Enochian?
>>
>>20936545
Yeah, but then again so are some Ford and Koetting books. How would you say they compare to Chumbley's work, who is apparently quite difficult to get into (but effective nonetheless)?
>>
>>20936555
I haven't really read much Ford or Koetting so I can't comment.

I will say however that imo confusing the Sabbatic Current, CS, and crooked path with LHP (especially westerrn LHP) is a mistake, so I'm not sure they even should be compared.
>>
>>20936569
Fair point. I'll try and have a few skims then. Thanks!
>>
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Can't say I enjoy this shameful display.
>>
>>20936578
no problem, I've heard red goddess is pretty good. Palo Mayombe: Garden of Blood and Bones is pretty sought after. Exu and the Quimbanda of Night and Fire is on my reading list, and I know there's some pretty good pieces in "At The Crossroads". Good luck with your path.
>>
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>>20936555
just my two inflated cents on it but:
i've only read a little of chumbley's work, my assessment so far is that ford and koetting really like his aesthetic, and seem to attempt to superficially imitate his style without fully comprehending his actual work.

cheaply made "power commandos" compared to officially licensed "G.I. Joe"
>>
>>20936623
Seems to be the general consensus.

Having a bit of trouble finding all the Scarlet Imprint books in the archive though. I've only found 4...
>>
>>20936632
Well, 5 now. Just found Red Goddess
>>
>>20936649
like I said I only know of 5, maybe 6 in there unless Im missing some somewhere.
>>
>>20936725
I've found around 7 now. Unfortunately it seems Apocalyptic Witchcraft and Lucifer: Princeps isn't there (unless I'm just really bad at looking for things) but Frisvold's work is mostly there. Some stuff from Stratton-Kent as well.
>>
Looking for stuff related to Cthulhu, thanks - N
>>
>>20936795
chaosium makes some excellent cthulhu board games and rpg's
>>
>>20936484
I'm reading this one by cunningham

I'm not that person you replied too.>>20931195
>>
>>20931195
I read this years ago when I was exploring Wicca. it's is nature oriented, sure, but VERY white light fluffy stuff. not ceremonial style magic at all, from what I remember, a lot of 'spells' and meditations that require very basic things. (for me) the framework seemed weak, even bland, and the results (if even obtained) were consequently weak and bland.
if you like nature oriented stuff with minimal to high ceremonial trappings (devoid of Hebrew junk, christian prostrations and other golden dawn-esque frameworks and tools) I suggest Edred Thorsson, Futhark, and his Nine Doors of Midgard. changed my life.
>>
>>20936555
Scarlet Imprint is academic but accessible.
>>
>>20936649
They're scattered.

Eight in Afro-Carib/Voodoo iirc.
Four in grimoires.
Two in A.'.A.'. philosophy (Scarlet Imprint's XVI).

As I've said before I need to shore up a folder specifically for them.
>>
If you got rid of your self then take off the tripcode
>>
>>20937580
>got rid of your self
Never claimed this.
>>
>>20937590
There's a bunch of Starfires in Ben Fernee's latest drop, if that's something you're still interested in
>>
>>20937597
Good old Ben.
If they're the Chumbley Starfires, maybe, but I'm broke for the next few weeks, maybe, unless a certain Secret Chief accelerates developing his services in need of rendering.
>>
>>20937622
Starfire, Vol.I No.5, Starfire 1994, Card covers, large format. Illustrated. Over 200pp Substantial articles on Spare by Gavin Semple & Randall Holmes, also articles by Mick Staley, Paul Lowe & Andrew Chumbley Ed. by Mick Staley, a prominent member of the Typhonian OTO, an impressive journal. Fine Order Ref. 6-18-G-19 £55

Starfire, Vol.II No.2, Starfire 1999, Large format, card covers. 200pp & 8pp ads Official Statement Concerning OTO; Damian Sinclair, Dreaming Attention; Robert Taylor, the Black Stone; Michael Staley, Iridescent undulations & the Sacred Fire; Nigel Aldcroft-Jackson, How to Leap Forth by Standing Still; Margaret Ingalls; Chaos Magic & Maat Magick; Nicholaj Frivold, Into the depths of Severity & All Beauty; Damian Sinclair, Pax Noblis; Stephen Dzicklewicz, A Mantra for Evoking the Great Old Ones; Andrew Chumbley, Opening the Way for the Daemons of the Void; Michael Staley, Transformation; Austin Osman Spare & Besz-Mass;Simon Hinton, Liber AL intelligence; An Instrument of Succession etc Fine Order Ref. 6-18-G-20 £50
>>
>>20937622
there are more but those are the two that include Chumbley
>>
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>>20937622
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJlBfgu7HDk
>>
>>20936548
Wherever you want it to fit.
>>
>>20937750
That’s what she said
>>
thoughts on Quareia s magicians deck? got it a week ago and it's proven itself very powerful
>>
>>20938327
I'd like to piggyback on this to solicit opinions on Quareia / McCarthy in general.
I understand she's pretty well-liked in the occult scene at large, but am curious about omg's take on her whole 'visionary magic' thing.
>>
>digging for socialism

Absolutely haram.
>>
>>20937590
>>20936592
Whats going on with you two, you used to be friends
>>
>>20938528
They were separated for reasons.
>>
>>20938534
very illuminating
>>
>>20937537
Thanks! Any chance you can get Grey's Apocalyptic Witchcraft or Lucifer: Princeps?
>>
>>20938528
?

>>20938534
???

>>20938857
>Princeps
No but I think there's a .pdf floating around.
>Grey's Apocalyptic
No, but if there's not a .pdf floating around I can scan my copy.
>>
I have a question.


Why not Christianity, why this?
>>
>>20938977
Old tricks of our super technological chaos magician.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUfRA2il01U
>>
>>20938990

>Why not both?
>>
>>20939000
Not compatible with Christianity
>>
>>20939010
Which Christianity are we talking about?
>>
>>20939025
Christianity in the general sense.
>>
>>20939042
>knows nothing about Christianity other than entry level pop-religion
>>
>>20939087

Well generally, it's not compatible because Satan tempted Jesus with the same shit you guys are "promised" with (power, materials, etc.) so why is this the true alternative to Christianity?
>>
Ahh drinking red wine reading my Wiccan book...I'm going to go vegan. Nature is magic
>>
>>20939010
Despite the reeees of exoteric Christians, “””LHP”” edgelords, and pagans, the majority of western magick is Abrahamic in nature.
>>
>>20939111
makugo i prefer this side of you
>>
>>20939133
idk who that is
>>
>>20938977
I saw someone post Apocalyptic on Reddit but it's 2 years ago so the link's expired. Pmed the poster, still waiting for a reply.

I'll try and find Princeps though, thanks!
>>
Hey Ape, sidebar to the conversation about books and library additions.

Did that new herbal form Schulke ever come out? I cant remember the name, I think it was 'The 13 paths of herbalism' or something? I remember thinking it looked good but didn't keep up to date on it.
>>
>>20939264
I ordered two books from three hands press which are now about a month late so I bet they are backed up in some way. Check the website for release dates
>>
>>20939292
I'll check thank you, also I mailed you back.
>>
>>20939294
>>20939292
God damn it, this is why I don't go on the site, there's like nine other books here I want and I need to eat this month.
>>
>>20939119
>the majority of western magick is Abrahamic in nature.
(citation missing)
>>
>>20939308
What do you practice?

I don't believe we even got to talking about the important stuff last we talked.
>>
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Just bought this book to dive into and read and drink with... Is it based
>>
>>20939345
I practice magic.

I like playing with sticks and rocks and dirt and plants and dead things and talking to weird shit that may or may not be there.
>>
>>20939372
That sounds pretty awfully damn close to what an insanely unreasonably gay acquaintance of mine does.

It gets pretty nuts.
>>
>>20939378
what constitutes 'unreasonably gay'?
>>
Have any of you fapped to an occult book before
>>
>>20939098
Because you don't have a strong understanding of Christianity, or the topics discussed in these threads. And in the case of Qabalah, and much Thelema, Christ and the power he represents, are very important aspects
>>
>>20939382
Will fuck literally anything that walks.

Although he'd probably take exception to that.

>>20939386
Depends on what you mean by 'occult book'. How wide is the definition?
>>
>>20939386
only when reading about the Kanaima drinking corpse juice.

>>20939427
>Will fuck literally anything that walks.
That's not being gay that's just being a slut.
>>
>>20939372
Sevis I know I already said this but that email you wrote me is incredible. you should consider publishing something, there’s a lot here.

>>20939436
I keep meaning to post this image when that guy who wants to connect with the jester is around
>>
>>20939318
>doesn't know anything about western occultism
>tries shitposting anyway
I guess I'm taking the bait, but the issue is that when the majority of posters here have BASIC knowledge on the thread topic, we can tell when someone doesn't know anything whatsoever
>>
>>20939443
>Sevis I know I already said this but that email you wrote me is incredible. you should consider publishing something, there’s a lot here.

Now I've half a mind to ask for a copy.

Would that be impolite?
>>
>>20939443
Thank you, I really appreciate that, gives me some validation. I'm not sure I have the experience either magically, or scholastically to publish something worth reading. Also like I said in the mail, I'm not sure that it would reach it's intended audience. I don't want to hand this stuff to just anyone. They can all go read the Magpie Oracle and buy their tools at Claire's in the mall. I want to pass stuff on before I'm dead, but I want it in good hands? I don't know.

>>20939454
It's not impolite to ask, but I do not know enough about your beliefs and practices. It was written specifically for 493.
>>
>>20939491
>I do not know enough about your beliefs and practices

Meh. Mostly curious, since I've seen that email mentioned several times now, with high praise from 493.
>>
>>20939454
I had to do dark and terrible things. Things that were even (squints at notecards) “unreasonably gay”

>>20939523
Call me a republican over 60, I can’t shut up about the emails
>>
Fresh bread: >>20939537
>>
>>20939539
You were also supposed to let me know when you wanna do the reading exchange.

Which you didn't.

And which I still hope to go through sometime.




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