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Library:
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ


Old thread:
>>21093471
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuThNgl3YA

Checking in.
>>
>>21105257
Bumpty bump
Opinions on the credibility and worthy ness of the Typhonian trilogies?
And on Kenneth Grant in general?
>>
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Should I practice wiccan witchcraft? Is it a good system? Do you guys think it is ridiculous perhaps?
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>>21105457
It's good enough.
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>>21105460
I'm mostly interested (and forgive my lack of knowledge on the matter) because it has a lot of old knowledge about herbs and crystals and metals and I've been posessed since birth, so I might discover an oil or herb that releives the suffering a bit.
>>
>>21105468
Traditions are there for a reason.

Every generation rejects them and regret it later.

It's part of being human.
>>
>>21105468
>old
>wicca
got some bad news for you chief
>>
>>21105480
Wicca it's a new term but the rituals and the knowledge is old.

Like using the library or the internet, but learning the same.
>>
Has Stephen been around here at all lately? Last night I felt I received something from him in a dream, though I don’t know what, and this message “here you go, and please, try to be more angry (said with light irony), looking into the pretenses of your anger will help your sadhana!”
>>
>>21105484
>the rituals and the knowledge is old.
No, not particularly.
Dirty old Scire didn't really get the ball rolling on the stuff until the 50's. He was heavily influenced by the Rosicrucian order and by The Beast himself. Almost everything "old" in wicca, is re-constructionist and stapled together with the disparate teachings of various esoteric orders. There's nothing "old" in Wicca.
>>
>>21105501
>No, not particularly.
Where could I find then good info on herbs, oils and minerals that could relieve the symptoms of a posession where priests and medication don't help?
>>
anyone know any spells for penis girth? I'm happy with 5.5" circumference but would like to be a full 6"
>>
>>21105510
dunno, not my bag, just saying, wicca is not what you think it is
>>
>>21105501
You don't get it.

It's not about being the most faithful to the original ritual it's about invoking real entities.

Do you think they really care?
>>
>>21105490
No but that's good advice when working any kind of wrathful entity, of which Vajrayogini in the base form is somewhat.
>>
>>21105557
Yep, it for sure tracks, but the sense was that the important thing was the nonverbal thing he sent me. That message a sort of post it note on a large package. Thank you
>>
>>21105442
Grant had solid work in the beginning, and then went off the rails.

Worth reading anyway.
>>
>>21105442
Grant was certifiably nuts. If you can't avoid him, consider it fiction.
>>
>>21105529
I'm here everyday, I know what Wicca is.
>>
>>21104294
>But they're missing all of the Center for Enochian Studies volumes.

http://www.billheidrick.com/tlc1988/

They primarily address the Quinti Libri.
>>
>>21106172

http://www.billheidrick.com/tlc1989/
http://www.billheidrick.com/tlc1990/
>>
I'm applying to the AA, can anyone tell me if most lineages still use Mathers' Abramelin translation?
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>>21106224
Which AA?
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>>21106280
Shoemaker's.
>>
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Bump
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>>21106328
I should guess the protocol from 418. Hopefully, someone else knows for sure.
>>
I'm trying to write a story and I want to be accurate in my depictions of them, so, does anyone know if any of these spirits of solomon have specific personality traits?
Avnas, Amadusias, Gremory, Stolas, and Vepar
>>
>>21106447
also, would writing about them bring some kind of misfortune about me? would it anger them?
>>
>>21106224
yes. not that it really matters. it's not an item on the official syllabus beyond Student work.
>>
>>21105532
what makes them any more real than any other force one might invoke?
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>>21106461
They wouldn't be angry. Demons love attention. I think Paimon specifically prefers his payments in the form of praising his name to people.
>>
>>21106461
If you've never tired to conjure them before, chances are they have no idea who you are. You're just like every other meat creature. Unless maybe someone else conjured them to ask about you or so something related to you, then they know plenty.

Assuming I'm right in my theory that they don't necessarily know something until it's been asked of them. As in, they themselves need to have had a reason to uncover or divine something before they themselves have that knowledge. They are just far better at it and can do so more quickly than any mortal, so we bid them do so for us.
>>
>>21106520
It's just being aware and not being aware.

If you can't tell what demons are doing behind the scenes you can't be fooled by their justifications.
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>>21106545
Just a hypothesis mate.
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>>21106520
What the fuck did I just read?
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What do y’all think of these books? Are they any good?
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>>21106509
He changed the Student curriculum? Interesting.
>>
is anyone here a pro at this stuff? and gets paid to do it?
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>>21106958
Basically, if I'm reading it right, he's saying that the demons are a form of spiritual Google.
>>
>>21107074
>getting paid to be an occultist
where i do sign up?? this only happens if you sell astrological or hoodoo services - and analogs thereof - more or less.
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>>21107124
Perhaps, but that doesn't seem much more intelligible.
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>>21107125
I'm sure it already exists for the hyper wealthy.
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>>21107142
It (by itself) makes sense from the perspective of "all magic is telepathy" model.

Doesn't really explain a lot of other phenomena, however.

By the way, how often are lesser angels animals?

I had the strangest interaction with one QZNPT(eL)
>>
>>21107125
>laughs astrologically
>>
>>21107154
and what makes you say that?
>>
>>21107182
knowing
>>
>>21107167
There's something hilarious about people who want to traffic with entities they don't believe exist.

Animals in real life? It's possible. All the possessions of which I was aware were of humans.
>>
>>21107204
post evidence
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>>21107221
how does one post evidence of something they just know without any material world basis?
>>
>>21107209
>There's something hilarious about people who want to traffic with entities they don't believe exist.

Meh. He's still doing better than I did a few months ago.

And, I wasn't talking about possessions. I was talking about evoked angels. I petitioned Raphael for something, and he directed me to that other being. Entity. Critter.

Thus my question - does it happen often that the spirit manifests in a somewhat unusual form?
>>
>>21107227
so you have no facts or proof or evidence and you "know" based on nothing but feels, cool.
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>>21107243
Exactly! You understand lol, still if you want to work as one I just recommend you get as good at your craft as possible and the path will open to you should your heart be good for it.
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>>21107240
I have had an angel appear as a dog playing a piano, so, no, not so rare.
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>>21106561
Nah it works, they have clear goals and clear moves, it's the justifications that are confusing.
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>>21107253
What in the fuck are you talking about?
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>>21107275
. . .
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>>21107311
https://twitter.com/Randu_Mahendra/status/1014257723930652672
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>>21107253
are you implying that you astral projected and saw wealthy people use the occult to make more money?
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>>21107323
I did no such thing. I don't do such things without consent, nor would I be capable of remote viewing them working.
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>>21107336
Fucking lel. So how do you know?
>>
Finally, a decent resource for Tha Kabala.

http://museumoftalkingboards.com/kabala.html
>>
>>21107383
I just do lol, why does there have to be a how? Let's just chill and enjoy the being :)
>>
This might get me a lot of shit but...

What's the actual difference between scrying/ having visions/ remote viewing/ astral projecting and... Literally using any of our other senses?

It doesn't appear there is much difference to me, aside from our conditioned reliance, bias towards sight and sound.
>>
>>21107407
You need to practice Astral senses
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>>21107392
>why does there have to be a how?
because thats how causality works. making shit up and saying "i just know lol" isnt how anything works unless youre brain damaged. doesnt matter though, youre already lost
>>
>>21107407
Skrying, astral projection, and lucid dreaming are essentially three facets of the same thing. Yes, they're obviously related to your visual processing subsystems. It's a question of input.
>>
>>21105257
aada
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>>21107462
What's your thoughts on the idea that it isn't primarily visual, but rather spatial, via proprioception?
>>
>>21107407
I always joke to myself that remote viewing is secular astral projection
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>>21107491
It’s should be both I think. Like you’re saying you would just have a felt sense of motion without a vision of where you’re moving?
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>>21107491
Most of us seem to be strongly visually oriented. Are other senses often involved? Yes.
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>>21107418
this one is for you. yes, you.
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>>21107534
I generally don't "see", but rather get a spatial impression.

Like remembering the shape/ placement/ dimensions of my desk or table, while not actually directly seeing it.

Not sure if this conveys what I mean well enough.

It's like having a sense of touch, but... at a distance?
>>
>>21107548
I can't think of any esoteric tradition that discounts causality. Actually there is one subschool of Buddhism that did that, they said that causes and effects are not connected, and that everything is totally random and unconnected. They got shut down for being completely retarded, pretty quickly. If I remember correctly, there was also something similar in Hinduism, but I could be wrong.
Your picture is silly. Believing in causality doesn't automatically believe that someone is a logical positivist/empiricist/materialist. The fact that you don't know that says a lot.
>>
>>21107636
you need to respond with a meme back bro lol, don't worry I got you, it's ok to break the flow like this as long as it doesn't keep going for too long and seem unnatural to them
>>
>>21107667
here's your last (you), silly larper
>>
would combining qlippothic magick and hoodoo sound like a terrible idea?
>>
>>21107787
Yes.
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>>21107587
"Seeing an object" and "remembering seeing an object" use largely the same brain regions. There isn't a brain region involved in recalling seeing something that /isn't/ involved in literally seeing it. The inverse does happen tho- like there are regions that are more involved in literally seeing than they are in recalling seeing. I have that neuro background though so I have like a fairly nerdy way of conceptualizing my own mental processes.

I do personally have like a strong "haptic" sense and a reasonably weak visual sense, though, so I kind of get where you may be coming from (even if it's hard to say where you're coming from, cuz, the folly of explaining qualia). Like, I used to think the phrase "picture this" was like a euphemism for just thinking about it in language before I realized much later that no, people can literally see things in their minds' eye.

>>21107787
that is the worst sentence I've seen in the thread today so in that sense it does sound terrible
>>
Can anyone give me advice or an idea of which direction to go in when it comes to learning about the occult? I don't know where to start but I've always been interested.
>>
>>21107819
>before I realized much later that no, people can literally see things in their minds' eye.
can you not visualize with your eyes closed?
>>
>>21107918
i love having an FAQ
>What is the very first thing I should do/read to get into all this?
*A simple introductory practice is the LBRP, practice it every day. You can find it online or in the library (it's in Appendix 5 of Israel Regardie's Ceremonial Magic, in the Golden Dawn folder).
*Read one of several introductory texts- Aleister Crowley’s Magick in Theory in Practice, Israel Regardie’s The Golden Dawn {otherwise known as the Black Brick}, Aleister Crowley’s Magick without Tears.
*Start meditating every day.
*Record what you do in a journal.
>>
>>21107918
There's a link to a library here >>21105257, and a beginner's folder in the library. Dig in.
>>
>>21107957
Oh, I can now. And the weird thing is I sort of could before. Like I have visual memories and visual memories of visually imagining things. The disconnect seemed to be consciousness of that capacity, or the ability to do it at will. I'm not really sure. I started practicing like 10 years ago, once I got sold on the idea that it was actually possible. I met a guy who was really good at it - excellent sense of direction, could just hold intricate 3d shapes in his head as like easily as I could remember a phone number, and he'd like regularly blow my mind with the capacity until was finally like "there is no reason for me to be this brain blind" and started practicing. I also think that doing substances that cause visual hallucination sort of like...primed the skillset in my neural pathways, if that makes sense. I remember like the exact moment when I first saw something in my minds eye deliberately. I like freaked out and started yelling to all my housemates. It was a pyramid, lol.
>>
@ anyone who thinks they can astral project/remote view, there is a cat in my room, what color is this cat?
>>
>>21108006
It's a tortoise shell
>>
>>21108003
damn i had the perfect image for this post
>>
>>21108006
How do you expect them to find your room? You could be anywhere on the planet.
>>21108003
Interesting. What practices did you do to build up the skill? Do you think the psychedelics helped "unlock" the skill, at least a little bit?
>>
>>21107967
thanks, very informative I'll start with this right away
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>>21108023
Moreover, since this is an imageboard on the internet, he's free to say it's whatever color he wants, or download any random image from online, or get sent one as a friend for proof.

That's not even getting into the differences between RV and AP which he conflates.

How come internet skepdicks are always garbage at experimental design and think anything can be proved absent decent controls?
>>
>>21108057
a good way to verify remote viewing targets online is to use dropbox or something to send the viewer a password protected archive containing the target information before the viewing takes place, with the password given afterwards.
>>
>>21108023
>What practices did you do to build up the skill? Do you think the psychedelics helped "unlock" the skill, at least a little bit?
I started drawing every single day. I practicing drawing 3d shapes, just drilling it on a sketchpad, getting the dimensionality right, light and shadow, all things that like forced me to (semi unwittingly) visualize the object to get it right. It's not a very mystical answer but this probably helped more than anything else.

I also picked up this exercise where I'd imagine an upright disk spinning on its axis, then another disk overlapping the first, spinning in the opposite directions, then introduce a third disk, perpendicular to the first two spinning on its axis, then a 4th on the same axis as the 3rd, spinning the opposite way. and onward with more intersecting disks until I was out of mental capacity to do it. I did that like every night for some months.

Re: psychedelics, imagine if say you're trying to learn a dance and someone briefly takes possession of your body and just... does the dance through you. That would help you learn it, right? I think the same thing happened, for me anyway, with psyches and visualizing images. It just...did it, over and over, in a short period of time.
Semi-unrelated but I always think of that chumbley quote when I talk about this-
>Nurture irrepressible vision!
>>
>>21105257
ive been looking since 2011 for a pdf of the original scorcerers screed (in norwegian) would you guys happen to have it?
>>
>>21108217
the author is skuggi.
>>
>>21107967
So, in Appendix 5 of Israel Regardie's Caeremonial Magic, when it says vibrate a name what does that mean?
>>
>>21108228
I thought he gave instructions? I know he does in The Middle Pillar, and I believe Crowley does in M:TP
>>
>>21108228
>>21108238

https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6
>>
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>>21107636
Ye dharmah hetuprabhavah hetun tesam tathagatah hyavadat tesamca yo nirodho
>>
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Where on the Tree of Life is the four elements? If it is just Malkuth then what is their "source" and why are they differentiated that way?
>>
>>21108700
Multiple stations.

Makut is the repository of the flow down the tree, so they're collected there.

In terms of the A.'.A.'., Neophyte through Philosophus cover the four elements, and the associated Sephira.

Individual paths have elemental connotations, cycling around, depending upon their character.

Each of the components of the soul, which comprise clusters of sephira, has an elemental connotation.

Keter is the source of all things, so the elements are inherently bound up within it, as objects lodged in a glacier are carried out as it melts.
>>
>>21108721
So you're saying that no single Sephifot or Path (except) Keter has a single element associated with it, but they are weighed in the direction of a particular element?
>>
>>21108721
>Keter is the source of all things, so the elements are inherently bound up within it, as objects lodged in a glacier are carried out as it melts.

This doesn't feel right.
>>
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>>21108721
Ape-San, can you tell me how to into Clear Light state without literally dying? I've also heard transparent state is better, do you agree?
>>
>>21108736
Why not "sculpture lodged in a block of wood before it is formed"

Does Keter have in itself the beginnings of differentiated forms?
>>
>>21108734
>In terms of the A.'.A.'., Neophyte through Philosophus cover the four elements, and the associated Sephira.

>>21108736
I've heard that said before, not by you, but nobody's ever really levied a refutation of the assertion.
>>
>>21108749
Yeah, unformed, unmanifest, and undifferentiated. It depends on how far you can disappear up your own ass and still have some relevance to reality.

Conceptually, difficult to have four elements before you have the idea of four.

>>21108764
Or reasonable proof.

Kinda why I came to dislike QBL.
>>
>bitches don't know about the Fall.
>>
>>21108768
>before you have the idea of four.
Word; my point is rather that if there's a flow outward from Keter of all things, then the elements are in there somewhere.

Maybe a chemistry metaphor is better - The elements in solution and need to form as a precipitate to drop out?
>>
>>21108768
>difficult to have four elements before you have the idea of four

Kek, good line

I like Crowleys "smooth point" as metaphors go

>came to dislike

Can you elaborate? I find the specificity of QBL makes "proving" things my myself easy, at the very least

>>21108771
They.. Don't?
>>
>>21106172
>>21106196
Got it. Thanks again.
>>
Who is the final boss (top occultist) of magick/occultism living at the moment?
>>
>>21108768
>Conceptually, difficult to have four elements before you have the idea of four.
Lightly choked on my sparkling water in amusement
>>
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>>21105468
you might consider evoking Stolas. Betcha he'd be useful to you.
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>>21108820
Tim, from Accounting.
>>
>>21108824
oh fuck you uttered his name
>>
>>21108779
There like in there but not as elements, like the “marble which is then carved” idea works because the original state is one of non-differentiation. A solution kind of still does the thing where it implies separate, distinct things that are just presently mixed, like it has components. Whereas the undifferentiated, premanifest all-thing doesn’t have components at all, it just exists and then later becomes itself in components
>>
>>21108864
>there in there
*they’re, can’t even grammar, let alone Holy Grammar
>>
>>21108864
I was going for "seamlessly mixed in needing of a catalyst for differentiation", but yeah.
>>
>>21108873
I think my complaint is a little pedantic, I got where you were coming from but if we’re going to try to hammer down the nature of the infinite in words, of all things, we should probably be precise
>>
>>21108779
>Word; my point is rather that if there's a flow outward from Keter of all things, then the elements are in there somewhere.
sounds assumptive
>>
>>21108912
Ok.
>>
>>21108796
I think one should distrust anything that makes proof easy. That's one problem.

I found it useful, magically, meaning it was useful for making something so. But the menu is not the meal. Speculations based on a model need not be correct.

And that takes a lot of the fun out of it.
>>
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>>21108779
Would Keter itself be a point of dynamic chemical equilibrium in this metaphor? Like the arrows in between chemical equations

>>21108950
>the menu is not the meal
I'm sort of stuck on this because I jive with the concept of relational non arising and that sort of non dual sensibility doesn't fit my understanding of QBL
>>
>>21108977
Really, isn’t that DCS’ whole bag- those things fitting?
>>
>>21108879
The Infinite is paradoxical and logical at the same time, so, you should be able to describe it any way you want.
>>
>>21108796
>find the specificity of QBL makes "proving" things my myself easy, at the very least
QBL is just liberation with extra steps.
>thatrickandmortymeme.jpg
>>
>>21108999
>liberation with extra steps
>western occultism: the musical
>>
>>21108977
*non dependant arising is probably more what I mean

>>21108992
Totally but I don't get it the way he does, studying his stuff helps but I have yet to have that breakthrough moment
>>21108999
I feel like the entire sphere of Yesod is making fun of me again
>>
>>21109010
>again
Lol.
I started at Buddhism and went to occultism so I mapped my understand of Kabbalah on top of my preexisting Non-dualism shtick. I genuinely don’t know how to explain it in a way that is helpful to someone who came at it from sort of the other direction but it’s also like core to my understanding because I never had an understanding of kbl that wasn’t mapped onto Buddhist brain.
>>
About to start a spell. BF is being seduced by a vixen at work. I plan on doing something against her so she loses interest in him and leaves him alone.

Using:
- purple candle (domination)
- break-up oil (Guinea peppers, black mustard seed, galangal root, verbena)
- domination oil (calamus, licorice, cloves, don't remember what else I put in it)
- white salt (shield between her and him)
- lemons (remove any romantic energy between the two)
- wormwood (remove energy, purification; also create confusion)
>>
>>21109110
What about
>lavender (to take a nice deep breath)
>a bottle of wine (to foster intimacy)
And maybe some
>honest talk with your partner about jealousy (for to have a good relationship predicated on trust and openness, as opposed to one where you’re covertly manipulating one another with magic)
>>
>>21108013
wrong
>>21108057
Lying wouldn't help me, considering I'm looking for some sort of proof to RV/AP, could be proven by stating the color of the cat and being correct since there's no other way for them to know? (if my understanding is sound enough) Not just trying to disprove it and be a dick, I promise.
>>21108085
This is admittedly a much better idea than what I originally posted.
>>
>>21109110
I think your boyfriend is a big enough boy to be able to manage without you hovering over him and making sure that women ''leave him alone''. If he cares about you, he won't get seduced by some other person. If he doesn't, well then, you should have a talk with the guy to have everything cleared up.
>>
>>21109169
Do you have blue+white bedding perchance?

Also, you could try to prove it to yourself.
http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/answers/crvmanual/CRVManual_FiredocsRV.pdf
http://www.psychic-experiences.com/psychic-tests/remote-viewing-picture.php
>>
I made this recently to set an intention for myself. Does anyone else have set pieces like this willing to share?
>>
>>21109390
Nope, just a mattress at the moment. It's also much easier to fool myself than it is for someone else to accurately guess the color of the cat.
>>
redbull me on kechari mudra
>>
>>21109407
Have a throwaway email? I don't want to kill your interest by being off but I can send you a little session.
>>
>>21109141
Magick to keep her at bay, talking to resolve the issues with my man.
>>
>>21109559
mastermiller420@protonmail.com
>>
>>21109110
Use cleansing herbs to cleanse her from positive energies.
>>
Can anyone here explain to me the current neuroscience behind anatman? When someone has "entered the stream", what is going on in their brain? And what long-lasting neurological effects do such experiences deliver?
>>
>>21108721
>Keter is the source of all things, so the elements are inherently bound up within it, as objects lodged in a glacier are carried out as it melts.

Nope.

If anything, Binah has that function, and even then it's questionable because it's above the Abyss.

Perhaps Da'ath as the "second tzimtzum"?

>>21108950
>I think one should distrust anything that makes proof easy.
I think that's a problem with any system. As long as you're knowledgable in the rules, it's possible to insert specific inputs to get specific outputs.

>>21109110
lol
>>
I think the biggest problem with the general is the condescension toward aspirants and novices who ask the questions one would expect an aspirant or novice to ask. The curmudgeonly elitist attitude is rather dull.
>>
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>>21110390
This general is not for beginners or at least that's what Ape said months ago.
>>
Why have I never encountered a paranormal phenomenon?
>>
tips on working with goetic spirits and how to craft with intention passion, but not lose yourself and your mind ?
>>
>>21110390
I have to agree with you, but only in part.

For the vast majority of beginners, all topics are covered in the books of the library.

What remains to be discussed in more depth is praxis. Issue is... most of it is also covered in the books.

So we're stuck having to talk about more advanced topics because there's only few things you can't explain by pointing at a book or two.

>>21110489
He's not wrong.

>>21110565
You make no sense. Care to elaborate?

>>21110518
Probably because you haven't actually done anything.
>>
i think i've been sterilized as a kid ( vasectomy).
i have zero sperm count and low libido, although i have normal test and other hormones.
maybe i was born for specific role in society.
what should i do with this information?
>>
>>21110518
Ghosts shy away from homosexual people
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66F2-AkwJOc
>>
>>21110489
Stupid way to think about it. Why not help initiate all those who are interested? Secretism in magick is what has been holding back magick for centuries, nigh millenia, and we are wound up in it due to the materialist culture we live in. Time for change.
>>
>>21111236
???

>>21108271
>>21108238
>>21108228
>>21108052
>>21107969
>>21107967
>>21107918
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>>21111260
Things are moving.
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>>21110352
>If anything, Binah has that function, and even then it's questionable because it's above the Abyss

I tend to agree.

>>21110489
It was never intended to be a beginner's discussion. It does provide more than enough information to bring you to an intermediate level.

>>21110565
Learn ceremonial work and achieve K&C first.

>>21111236
There's no upside to spoon-feeding dilettantes with zero experience, knowledge, or self-mastery.
>>
>>21111236
There are no secrets here.
In fact this is probably the only place on the internet that routinely and with zeal rips down the veil of Adytum.
>>
>>21111290
Right like I’ve never had someone ask a q and get the response “it’s a *~secret~*” but I have for sure seen people ask that are either dizzyingly incoherent or could be found in 30 seconds on google. Hell sometimes I do even google shit for people if I’m not really doing anything.
>>
>>21111306
that meme tho
>>
so was crowley a black brother or a yellow one or a white one?
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>>21111317
As far as I am aware he was an only child.
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>>21111322
oh ahhaaha i get it. you're pretending to be retarded. very funny indeed. some real comedy gold he he he
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>>21111326
As far as I am aware Crowley was white.
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>>21111267
>I tend to agree.
>If anything, Binah has that function
Last I recall the lightning bolt of MZLA didn't start at Binah.
>>
>>21111341
I still think you're fundamentally mistaken, but I don't know that you are in a position to understand the Fall. Your current understanding will have to do.
>>
>>21111351
IJS mate, if we take the cosmology metaphor, Binah may well actually be the star-forge which produces heavier elements in decay and supernova, that doesn't actually change the fact that every atom that underwent transformation was present as soon as quark-gluon plasma cooled, which itself implies the constituents were present all the way back (nanoseconds) to the Planck Epoch.
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>>21111377
>atom
Particle.
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>>21111341
See picture.

The idea is that MZLA is the underlying force from which all things spring forth.

Da'ath is the gate "beyond", with Binah being the only "visible" manifestation of it from below.

So while yes, everything springs forth from Ain down the Tree, the emanations etc.

The actual world we live in, including all spirits and Godforms are bound within Binah, and thus spring forth from it as a secondary flow, rather than as a direct result of MZLA.

At least that's what I got from 3-4 minutes of contemplation.

>>21111377
>science terms
You're conflating the above with the below, it feels like.

Now, I realize this might sound arrogant as I have attained nothing, but this also gives me a certain idea that might relate to the structure of the A.'.A.'..

K&C being the finding of ones direction below the Abyss, within Binah (Secondary Emanations, Da'ath being the hinge from which they unfold).

Then Crossing would be finding ones direction on the deeper levels - in the First Emanations, if that's a term I can use.
>>
>>21111377
Are you seriously trying to replace modern physics with Jewish mysticism?

God, I dislike QBL. How's that menu taste, anyway?
>>
>>21111392
>conflating
I'm trying to use a hamfisted metaphor for shit that's hard to describe using typical and direct terms.

>>21111402
>replace
Um, no?

>menu
????

If I'm just to shut up, say "shut up".
>>
>>21111351
What is the fall in your understanding?
>>
>>21111415
I don't think they're hard to describe at all.

Besides, isn't it easier to come up with a small glossary, or just define terms by their functions?

I mean at the end of the day, sure, language is limited but that doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from discussing matters.
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>>21111415
Nah, today is a good day to hear you talk.
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>>21111427
Well, when I tried explicitly using metaphor
(>>21111377 >metaphor) that I found shared some compelling mechanics I'm told I'm not only conflating but attempting to replace the standard model, so obviously speech has failed in the face of silence.
>>
>>21111415
I won't tell you to shut up.

>>21111417
Beyond words, for the most part. How to describe the process by which reality is ground down into matter?
>>
>>21111439
>so obviously speech has failed in the face of silence.

We have a winner!
>>
>>21111439
Well, the reason why that metaphor doesn't work is because even the primary particles you mentioned would be within the scope of Binah.

In a way, I think this is a recursive process - the more you try to pull from within Binah, the more you'll get that *isn't* MZLA.

The key seems to be side-stepping the issue and just taking things as they are.
>>
>>21111450
>even the primary particles you mentioned would be within the scope of Binah
Which would imply Binah is ultimate Source, which it clearly ain't.

>In a way, I think this is a recursive process - the more you try to pull from within Binah, the more you'll get that *isn't* MZLA.
>The key seems to be side-stepping the issue and just taking things as they are.
These are perfectly reasonable to me.
>>
>>21111456
>which it clearly ain't

You're saying "clearly", but I don't see any evidence for that.

As far as I know (which isn't much), above the Abyss, distinctions disappear. Binah = Chokmah = Kether.

Yes, it seems to be the case that they can be explored separately, however I don't see that it matters in the slightest from our limited perspective.

And had we Crossed, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

So it changes nothing.
>>
>>21111464
>You're saying "clearly", but I don't see any evidence for that.
Oh, I dunno, the five other things that exist behind it?
>>
>>21111443
>Beyond words, for the most part. How to describe the process by which reality is ground down into matter?
Of course. But a few words, imperfect as they are, would be appreciated. Maybe they can at least point in the general direction of the truth.
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>>21111468
Map =/= territory.

Top of the Seal.
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>>21111464
>Abyss, distinctions disappear
I agree entirely, hence my statement half the thread ago that there must be differentiation for the appearance of the elements: That doesn't mean they simply did not exist before, but that they were bound up in Unity (i.e. Keter, AND Chokmah, AND Binah) and in need of a catalyst for individuation.
>>
>>21111469
Liber 333, Liber 418.
>>
>>21111477
No, I don't think they were, unless we distinctly specify that *everything* and *every possibility* is held as potential Above, unmanifest, unformed, non-functioning.
>>
>>21111484
>>21111469
There's also a pair of illustrations that Spare did for the first Equinox as a probationer.
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>>21111489
>unless we distinctly specify that *everything* and *every possibility* is held as potential Above, unmanifest, unformed, non-functioning.
>>21111447
>We have a winner!
>>
>>21111484
>418
Lol
>And therefore was he a fool who uttered her name in his heart, for the root of evil is the root of breath, and the speech in the silence was a lie.

>>21111377
the trouble with this is that all these metaphors are like "process oriented" and rely on like a narrative, temporal process of one thing progressing to the next.
>But they that are without understanding have interpreted all this askew, because of the Mystery of the Abyss, for there is no Path from Binah unto Chesed; and therefore the course of the Flaming Sword was no more a current, but a spark.
Like I see it as not a process of one thing to another thing but like co-manifesting things that co-occur. The idea of the tree as a process, flowing like water from vessel to vessel I think sometimes confounds people's understanding, like shaula was saying here >>21108977
but I can't really offer an alternative metaphor except for like individual pools with the waters springing up in themselves anew in each moment, and I'm still pretty dissatisfied with that.
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Do any of you find that LST has an effect on some of your practices? This graph isn't definite as I've had good sessions during the dips but I don't think that I've yet been successful during the 18-19 period.

jsasoc.com/docs/JSE-LST.pdf
>>
Is the Rite of the Opposer something you are supposed to do often?
>>
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hPsdjlPVaJU
>>
Can you make mantras to dieties? if so how?
>>
>>21112242
>dieties
yeah heres one:
>om jenny craig vajra hydroxycut svaha slimfast hum PHAT
>>
>>21105532
no, you don't get it.
I never said it was illegitimate, wrong, or bad.

I stated that it was not old, I am not incorrect.

I am curious why you seem to be so quick to make defenses against attacks that never happened though.
>>
>>21109886
Bumping for an answer
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>>21105821
If you think Wicca is "old" then you clearly do not.
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>>21112539
isn't wicca glorified witch role play?
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>>21111545
idk what happened to my trip for this post
>>21112242
wot deities
>>21109886
>anatman
to answer that you'd need to put someone into an fmri while it's happening. which we haven't done, to my knowledge. They've done a ton of Buddhist monk studies though- googling "monk neuroscience fmri" will probably yield the results you want.
>>
>>21112568

I am a student of psychology at a top 30 research university. It is within my ability to make this happen, if anyone on /omg/ is capable and willing to do the fmri thing.
>>
>>21112582
I'd say I volunteer to do parts of my practice in an fMRI, but I'm basically worthless for research because I'm left handed. The only area in life in which lefties are still a pariah lol. Are you a grad student?
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>>21112582
no one here is skilled enough in meditation to be worth putting in an fmri. you gotta find people who've meditated multiple hours a day for years and years. get a research grant to fly to tibet or the big tibetan centers in india to find monks with the level of practice and experience youre looking for, if thats your jam.
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>>21112642
We have plenty of meditation studies. I want to see some other practices represented in fMRI studies. Like what happens if you scry an enochian aethyr in an fMRI? You could have the person speak aloud what's happening into a recording device so you could map the changes in brain function across time and match it up to what was happening in the aethyr. What is the visual cortext doing? thalamus? post central gyrus? Increased global activation of neurons, over basic meditation states? Probably more prefrontal cortex activity than meditation, but I want to know for sure! How does it differ from the brain state of the same group of practitioners doing a visualization exercise, or visualizing themselves doing exercise? I have so many questions and I need to know lol.
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>>21112698
i agree but the guy also said hes interested in "anatman" and "when someone entered the stream". your suggestions are better.
i also vote that we give mushrooms to surgo and put him in the machine while he uses the lord's prayer to initiate communion with angels.
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>>21112582
You should check out the work of Andy Newberg, he's like the only really famous guy working on this
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52402ca4e4b0b7dd2fafe453/t/57166abb22482e87df44b4d9/1461086907907/how-god-changes-your-brain.pdf

>>21112720
no mushrooms, too many confounding factors. Newberg did a glossolalia study that wasn't exactly conclusive of anything, but still cool that he's doing the stuff. I met with him in college to pursue an internship but I wound up doing work with these guys who are pursuing research around applying mind-body practices to heal PTSD for people in war-torn or natural disaster-affected areas instead.

We could just buy like 20 of those stupid "sky" headsets, try to coordinate a group to do a ritual together and see what happens.
...holy shit i just looked and those guys started selling a star wars themed hologram mind-training game. it's only 30 bucks. https://store.neurosky.com/
>>
In Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God, Grant claims that all of the Class A Libri were inspired/transmitted by Aiwass. Is that how Crowley, or anyone besides Grant understood them?
>>
What are your opinions on traditional philosophers like Hegel, Kant, Heidegger, Nietzche? What about Marx?
>>
Why the fuck do occultists name their writings as "Liber something" or some obscure bullshit instead of giving it a proper, intuitive name.
>>
>>21113141
The names are intuitive.
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>>21113141
Occulism has a strong tradition of using Latin going back centuries, and even in modern times it is used in titles and certain phrases as a throwback to that. Liber means book. Don't be a pseud
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>>21113162
There is absolutely no credible reason to keep traditions forever other than orthodox people getting upset.
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>>21111545
>And yet, and yet… Denying temporal succession, denying the self, denying the astronomical universe, are apparent desperations and secret consolations. Our destiny … is not frightful by being unreal; it is frightful because it is irreversible and iron-clad. Time is the substance I am made of. Time is a river which sweeps me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger which destroys me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire which consumes me, but I am the fire. The world, unfortunately, is real; I, unfortunately, am Borges.
I literally thank God every time I stumble across some convenient, much-better phrasing of a thing i’m trying to communicate https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/09/19/a-new-refutation-of-time-borges/
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>>21113185
I just told you to not be a pseud and then you came back and doubled down. Fuck off.
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>>21113185
Then why do scientists still use Latin nomenclature?
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>>21113193
>pseud
how ironic that the only one pretending to be intelectual is you.

sorry, but im not going to leave just because youre mad
>>
>>21113141
>why is it called Fahrenheit 451?? they don’t even say the number 451 in the book? Why not just called it “censorship is bad: the novel”? That would be more intuitive
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>>21113199
because academic circles are snobby, conservative and disconnected from ordinary folks.
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>>21113209
>Why is it called Farenheit 451 when most of the world uses Celsius? They should call it Celsius 232
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>>21113209
youre comparing a fictional novel to books that claim to explain the mysteries of the universe.
are you impliying that occultism is fiction?
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>>21113213
ordinary folks are basically retarded so who gives a shit about what they think, especially when it comes to science?
>>21113221
>poor reading comprehension
spotted the ordinary folk. go be an anti-intellectual philistine elsewhere, bucko
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>why do they call it the egyptian book of the dead? ancient egypt never invented books.
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I... uh... guys. This is weird.
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>>21113232
im sure the occultists who were hanged and burned by them should have paid more attention to what ordinary people thought.
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>>21113243
>persecution is the fault of the persecuted
Kk
>>
>>21113221
I’m trying to illustrate, through the magic of comparison, that fact that the meaning is not necessarily obvious to you, the clearly casual reader, doesn’t mean that there isn’t a meaning. No one is just randomly picking a number for these shits to be mysterious. It just seems that way to you because you aren’t versed in the symbolic language
>>21113243
Lol went right to witch burning huh? I hope the guy who was like “why aren’t you nicer to nubs” is still here and paying attention ha
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>>21113243
things also probably would have gone smoother if they just named their books things like "heretical ideas that will get you executed for entertaining"
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>>21113262
not sure if youre the same person, but someone who believes that ordinary people are basically retarded and intellectual elites should not even give a shit about what they think most definitely deserves to be persecuted
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>>21113275
Yes definitely /less/ shrouding of heresy is the solution to save them from the pitchforks of the ign’ant
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>>21113275
so does the blame lie with the people or with the church?

then why do occultists seem to resent "normies" and people but are just fine with the church being left intact
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>>21113277
>Let my servants be few and secret, they shall rule the many and the known.
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>>21113294
What a pathetic philosphy, ruling in secret, like a fucking rat.
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>>21113277
>but someone who believes that ordinary people are basically retarded
have you met the ordinary person? theyre basically retarded. sorry if that offends your normie sensibilities.
>intellectual elites should not even give a shit about what they think
yeah, they shouldnt. when it comes to specific topics and fields, leave it to the experts. some dumb faggot who read a pop psychology book once has nothing worth contributing to the psychologists and neuroscientists who do the work.
if you think that i should get persecuted for thinking that engineers and scientists should be doing the engineering and science-ing because the average person is a bumbling retard with barely two brain cells to rub together, then what can i say other than: youre part of that group of retards.
read a book and aspire to more than being a 90iq brainlet
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>>21113311
Look at this picture.

Chill.

It's not like you want to put in any work anyway.
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>>21113311
The eternal whine of the paranoid and powerless

Power exists to be seized, even in this banal hell world
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>>21113349
>>
>>21113344
imagine what engineering, science and psychology could achieve if ordinary people were informed and supportive of the industry instead of giving most of our resources to entertainment.
youre the brainlet, we should strive to progress as an entire civilization.
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>>21105257
I'm just curious. Any actual proof of this stuff working? To those who practice, what made you believe in it? Have you did anything yourself?
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>>21113408
>imagine if ordinary people were intellectually involved
Then they wouldn’t be nearly as “ordinary” as anon is describing it.
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>>21113418
thats the point. what is the reason that anyone ever writes books if not so people can read them and become knowledgeable?

everyone is ordinary at some point in their lives, that is what pompous retards cant admit
>>
>>21113416
>Any actual proof of this stuff working?

What do you mean by "actual proof"?

>To those who practice, what made you believe in it?

What do you mean by "belief" in this context?

>Have you did anything yourself?

I would think I have but I am uncertain due to the unknowableness.
>>
>>21113424
Literally nothing is stopping anyone from doing that. No one is gate keeping information. You’re the one who got incensed that you had to read further than a book’s title to work out why it had its name.
>>
>>21113408
Do you honestly believe it is the experts fault that normal people aren't informed in those subjects? While gatekeeping is a thing, it is up to the individual to have the dedication required to become truly educated. It's no shortage of work
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>>21113408
>if ordinary people were informed and supportive of the industry instead of giving most of our resources to entertainment.
>we should strive to progress as an entire civilization.
100% agree. but those people would stop being ordinary. you gotta understand that the ordinary person is a chucklefuck who does nothing with their life except work, come home, drink 3 beers, and watch fox news (this is hyperbolic). if a person learns about science and strives to contribute to a field (including the arts, of course), then they stop being ordinary.
>what is the reason that anyone ever writes books if not so people can read them and become knowledgeable?
i mean...if you are a newb, picking up a 4th year physics textbook is going to look cryptic and meaningless to you. the books you rail against make perfect sense if you are of the level and caliber of the target audience. just gotta git gud. nothing is hidden, it's all there, in books that are easily accessed. you just have to have the eyes to see it. and developing that metaphorical eye takes time and effort.
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>>21113445
it doesnt matter whos fault it is that the world is ignorant, but the fact is that if more people were informed, more progress would be made, from an economic point of view, and the way to achieve that will never be alienating the rest of the world and treating them like swine.
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>>21113445
It's the experts fault it always was, the general population has no clue what the fuck are they talking about.
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>>21113428
>What do you mean by "actual proof"?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is has anyone who practices Magick seen results. And what made you guys interested/believe in the existence of Magick in the first place.
>>
>>21113476
What do you mean by "results"?

At which point *precisely* between "it was complete luck" and "it was 100% because of my ritual" do you draw the line?
>>
>>21113466
clearly you havent met a regular person. they work long hours and eat poorly and are too tired after work to put in much effort towards becoming smarter or reading a book or anything like that. it's a sad economic reality. how is it the fault of some scientist, engineer, or professor that cletus from the trailer park doesnt give a shit about reading books, or bill who works 10-12 hour shifts at the factory and is too tired to read a book, or susan who is too stressed about making enough money to pay her bills to even have the thought of reading a book cross her mind? ive never met any ivory tower academics that are against ordinary people rising up to a higher level, if only they would be able to go through the educational programs that currently exist. cant afford it cause youre an amerilard? blame the government, blame the corporations, blame the people responsible, not the relatively-powerless nerds in academia that run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to publish studies so that they can put food on the table like everybody else
>>
>>21113483
Not the same person, but how can you be sure that it was your free will to perform that ritual, or that the resulting event wasnt going to happen either way.
>>
>>21105525
No spells, no sigils, just cranberry juice.
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>>21113494
if occultists have magickal power, why arent they doing anything about the government and corporations?
>>
>>21113506
How do you define free will in this context?
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>>21113519
probably because a large portion of occultists are individualists that probably dont give much of a shit about what is going on. and also, what do you think magick is and how do you think occultists can use it to "do something" about the government and corporations?
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>>21113537
That is was your voluntary decision to modify some aspect of your reality, and not the fact that you were being influenced by factors out of your control, or that the intention to do it wasnt implanted by an external source.
>>
I am pretty sure that most of occultism is just primitive psychology/science
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>>21113557
What if it was voluntary, but that volition was caused by factors out of my control?

Or that it was "coincidence" caused by my voluntary actions, yet unaware of the consequences?

Where does that fit into your understanding?
>>
>>21113579
That events unfold like a long movie and we can influence a bit but are really more like a simulated character.

But really I don’t know, I don’t have a clear understanding of any of this, so I’d like to read your thoughts.
>>
>>21113408
The phrase "Panem et circenses" comes to mind.
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>>21113604
I don't see that it matters.

If you think you have volition in the first place, a strong argument can be made that you don't.

If you think everything's determined, a strong argument can be made that it isn't.

At the end of the day, you do certain things, and certain other things follow.

The causal relationship (in a mechanical sense) isn't of the least concern.

This is because the practice and theory rely on presuppositions which we aren't able to verify one way or another.

Worse still, radically conflicting methodologies can co-exist and "bring" about desirable events, which conflates the issue even more.
>>
>>21112561
no, but it's very misrepresented in modern culture, mostly by those who claim to practice it.
There's real religion, spirituality and witchcraft somewhere in there, but getting to it through the brain-dead haze of self-help, "feminist" propaganda, misandry, new thought, and lazy fluffy bullshit has become very difficult.

Any more its more usefully thought of as an initiatory filter.
>>
>>21113459
Too many assumptions, too little data.

This ain't for everyone.

>>21113572
And you would be mostly wrong.
>>
Are there any books on Stones and Crystals on the library? Can I get a recommendation?
>>
>>21113452
The bar for what a normie is will rise with the degree of initiation of the group soul. Although of course there is no actual bar. It's a gradient from normie to nemo.

>>21113506
Does it matter? You can't ever know for sure, but through continued experiments you can begin to spot trends, and make the assumption that your decisions do in fact affect the world.
>the method of science, aim of religion

>>21113476
It's pretty easy to see results. Spend a few weeks meditating and doing LRP every day and you will. If you're curious, go find out. No one can prove anything to you.
>>
>>21113506
free will =/= True Will
>>
Is there any truth to the "Abrahamic religion = saturn worship le black cube" stuff, or is it just /pol/tards with no esoteric knowledge connecting dots? Doesn't really make sense to me, but what the fuck do I know.
>>
>>21114467
>Is there any truth to the "Abrahamic religion = saturn worship le black cube" stuff, or is it just /pol/tards with no esoteric knowledge connecting dots?
I'll give you one guess.
>>
Can someone smart give me a quick rundown on how to kabbalistically analyze Babalon and her general mythos? Apparently I have been volunteered to speak on the subject and I don't wanna sound like a dummy
>>
Just curious, guys. Lets say you we're on a situation where you had a really angry person beside you; angry to the point where he can hurt himself, you or a third person.

He's notably tougher than you. From the occult/psychological point of view, what would be a good way to banish other people's anger?

Tell me an approach you could take. I leave the details of the situation up to you. If you need any equipment/element in the situation, assume you got it.
>>
>>21114639
you banish him by pre-emptively kicking him in the dick and casting magic missile or you polymorph him into a sheep
>>
>>21114708
>cast stealth
>eviscerate
>>
>>21114782
>cast stealth
>cast teleportation
>cast eviscerate
Nothing personnel kid.
>>
>>21114801
heh.
>>
Any suggestions on what order to read Israel Regardie's stuff?
>>
Poppets? Y/n?
What have you made them out of? What have you had the best luck with?
>>
How do I bless my farm and my dog?
>>
>>21115285
This is the most adorable post I've ever seen on this thread so I'm going to bless your farm and your dog in addition to whatever you do
>>
>>21115285
I'm gonna bless you too.
>>
>>21115285
>>21115415
>>21115439
I love you guys
>>
>>21113221
Nice strawman, please logic better and try again!
>>
>>21113311
>Not saying anything is the same as lying!
>>
>>21108006
Orange/yellow and it's slightly fat and/or fluffy
>>
>>21116329
mastermiller420@protonmail.com
>>
So I know the concept of karma, but if you were to try and hurt someone to protect someone else, how would that affect it?
And what would be the best method?
>>
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>>21115285

bless you man!
>>
>>21115285

Mezuzah on your doorpost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezuzah

Treat your land as a holy place. Do no evil there. Be kind to the stranger in your land, for you were a stranger in the land of Egypt.

Place totems/statues of guardian deities around your property (could make for some neat scarecrows).

Make a tefillin-style dog collar with protective prayers written on it.

Symbols of protection as dog tags.

May the Force be with you, may the fruits of your labor be bountiful, and may happiness and long life be with you, your dog.
>>
Anyone else noticing increase in nightmates since dabblin with the occult?

I have been doing ajna meditation, sigils and lucid dreaming/hypnagogic imaginery for a year now.
No kidding, at least a year has gone where I have spent at least an hour a day reading occult/magick stuff.

Problem is, for a year now I have had nightmares every single night. That's right.
They dont bother me though and I am glad to see them since they always give me insight and guidance on self development.

Am I just being a fool, am I just getting nightly astral attacks because I know too much?

Please respond.
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>>21116749
No that's normal.

For me, at least.

After about a year and a half they stopped happening, unless something major was going on.
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>>21116749
for me, the definition and character of a nightmare changed entirely. Things that used to terrify me are now amusing. The real terrors are thoughts like "what if I never self actualize because I'm doing/did something to sabotage my understanding?"
It's like, you get over the fear of death, destruction, possession, etc, and a new fear takes its place. I think perhaps the mind needs conflict to grow, and until it's actualized there will always be some sort of fear.
>and the light rises to meet the dark
>balanced as all things should be
recognize the indicator that is fear, follow it to the source.
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>>21116772
But did they only start after getting into the occult right?
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>>21116891
Yeah I normally don't dream at all. The last dream I had, two weeks ago, was due to an Enochian vision I had.
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>>21115415
>>21115439
>>21115480
wow someone liked my post!
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>>21117100
kek
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Who the fuck is Tommy Wiseau?
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>>21116904
Have you thought why?
I believe it might just be evil entities trying to get you back to your normal bluepill grind.
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>>21117283
A better question would be:

Who ISN'T Tommy Wiseau?
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>>21115415
Some hex signs are a classic Pennsylvania Dutch protection magic (pic related). Look up images and make yourself one. If you live in a rural area and are interested in some good old-fashioned farming folk magic, Id recommend looking into pow wow and braucherei, look up "Pow-Wows or The Long Lost Friend" You should be able to find a copy online, I don't think Ape has it in the library. You might also look up "The Red Church" I've heard good things.
You can drag a little hoodoo into the mix, chickens are good for the farm for many reasons including magical, frizzly feathered chickens are supposed to be best for magical defense. Find yourself four railroad ties or some big nails from the local home improvement store, drive them down in all four corners of your property to "nail it down" and prevent losing it for unforeseen circumstances.
Cleanse the house with a method of your choosing, there's a million ways to do it, look online.

I personally bless my doggos with a little bit of floral water on my hands and run it through their fur while saying a little blessing. Be careful what you put on them though and monitor them the first time to make sure they're not trying to lick it off. Don't use smoke to cleanse them it's unpleasant for their little noses.

There's a lot of stuff that can be done for protection and blessing of home and hearth but this should be a good start.
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Surgo is going for the throne unaware thoths big uncut non white cock is already knocking at his butts door. It's thelema after all, bum fucking is tradition.
The serious occcultist fags observe tradition. However the emphasis is on fags.
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>>21116749
Practice eliminated all my nightmares. Dream control ftw!
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>>21117505
What do you think about the fact that there's a whole thread on demon worshiping right now?

>>21115253
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>>21117667
4chan is crawling with crackpots, summer fags, LARPers, you name it.
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>>21105501
everything old is new again :)
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>>21117836
I think you missed the point.
What's happening here is not the old becoming new, its the new claiming to be old.
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>>21117848
Literally every order in living memory is made of stapled together syncretism
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>>21117859
sure but not all of them are claiming, or thought to be "thee olde wayes of arte" or claiming to be older than they are.
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>>21112156
>:o
that song is great
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Ape, I have often seen you reference the case of Urbain Grandier regarding the sigils that were on the alleged "contract," but you also seem to discuss it as though you believe Grandier truly was involved in such occult activity.

Is this the case? If so, what factors contribute to your inclination that it is so (his record as a philanderer who broke his vow of celibacy, etc.)? Obviously Richilieu was in a position to forge just about anything, and have any accusations he made taken seriously, but it does seem that Grandier was not what he claimed to be.

What say you?
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>>21117863
These books on witchcraft better yield results motherfuckers
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>>21118256
wut
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>>21118256
You better put the time (reading AND Working) in and develop a daily regimen (if you haven't already) before attempting to Work something like Chumbley and understand it, let alone get results...motherfucker
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>>21118275
>>chumbley
>implying I'm not a chad and I didn't go for Ravenwolf
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>>21118291
Ell. Oh. Ell.
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>>21113349
would smash
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Nu bred

>>21118505
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>>21113416
>Any actual proof of this stuff working?




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