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File: leg raise.png (101 KB, 390x390)
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Realistically the leg changes shape when it moves because the muscles are attached to different (literal) bones. I'm skeptical you can just weight-paint really good; surely professionals use a different method. Can you do something like create a second model with the leg raised and anatomy corrected and morph between the two?
I've done modeling in Blender before and focused on 2D art since, and I'm interested in getting back into 3D but the impression I'm getting it modeling machines with hard joints is a better use of 3D.
>>
>>995434
Either use corrective blendshapes, or corrective helper joints that are, for example, driven by the joint causing the issue.
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>>995437
Hey thanks, that makes sense. Looks like that's pretty high level; what a pain.
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>>995441
If you're still using Blender then the term they use for it is "shape keys". Searching that will probably yield some tutorials. A couple of tips though: They should be worked on as a final step after modelling and rigging and weight painting is already done. Because you don't want to work on a dozen shape keys, and then break your model by changing the geometry and/or weights, and then have to rework the shape keys. Still, it wouldn't hurt to just do a tutorial on it now, so you get the general idea.

Also, shape keys and mirror modifier do not get along. Blender will allow you to create shape keys while the mirror modifier is on, but not allow you to apply the mirror if shapekeys are on. So again, shape keys should be done after the modelling is done. Where, presumably, you already applied the mirror.
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I do it without hand drawn shape keys.
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>>995445
NTA: Oh now i see the problem, you’re kinda pushing the human body into unrealistic poses like that. Unless you’re doing cartoony things, the body can’t do the things you’re thinking.
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>>995448
You must be very stiff.
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>>995449
Burned to a crisp, lol
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>>995434
Add a mini small baby extra bone on each joint
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>>995449
You really can’t do this as a human, the athletes train to get within 20% more flexibility than average people. Plus the model you have isn’t built for certain types that you want, the original rig might have been designed for basic things instead.

If you want something within your expectations you’re going to have to redo the rig system.
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To save volume on your asses you need another joint in the same position and orientation as the femur joint. This butt joint should be rigged to move half as much as the femur does in the normal scissor kick direction, and it's up to taste how it should move in the other directions.
The butt joint grabs most of the influence of the verts on the cheeck and blends between the pelvis and femur joint.
Here I have a very large ass, and with 1 extra joint it keeps it's circularity at full extension. If you had an absolutely ginormous ass you might need 2 or 3 joint, but just the 1 does a lot of work.
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>>995461
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>>995462
ah yeah here. took me a sec to find it.
Here is how I have the skin weights set up for the hip>butt>femu joints.
I originally had the femur be the child of the butt join which was a child of the pelvis, but I have sense decided having the butt and femu be siblings gives you more options.
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>>995470
fak
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>>995461
>>995462
>>995471
Can you try with a human body next?
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>>995475
cute. Grasp this moment and don't slip into irony.
These giant asses are edge cases. Extreme examples. Normal butts, especially a tight athletic butt hardly needs a 2nd joint to keep volume at all. Really extreme deformations like in the OP pic can be almost completely eliminated with more clever weight panting.
OP's butt has a really sharp transition from butt meat to leg meat and is fully extended. Hit that edge with a smooth tool and it will be almost completely perfect. If the camera doesn't focus on the ass like in this pic I'd say you're done.
So if you're going to come to me and say
>dude i absolutely mus keep volume on this tiny butt. I cannot accept weight painting alone
Then I have your solution. An extra joint. It works so well it keeps volume on these gigantic jungle butts.
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>>995476
Can you show me how do you use that extra joint and clever weight paint on a human body then?
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>>995461
>>995462
>>995471
These are really clean!
Do you have a good guide/video/etc with the step by step technique to get these results?y2
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How do I do this?
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>>995460
You absolutely can. I do it constantly, and I'm an out of shape middle aged guy who spend 90% his time in front of a computer. You get this angle between your leg and torso, just from going into a deep squat, like a Slav squat for example. Or sitting on the floor straight, with legs bent in front of you. If you can't do this, there's something very wrong with your body.
>>
top end is dedicated cfx guys who just do muscle sims
speaking of which, the ml-deformer stuff is incredibly interesting and actually works right now if you're a clever boy and are able to set up the muscle sim data generation.
i think a generalised humanoid ml-deformer is not only inevitable, but is likely to happen in a few years, rendering a lot of shape key work pretty irrelevant
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>>995490
all ml-deformer does is accelerate the extreme final step of tissue sim. You have to still set up and sim the muscle deformation on a per character basis without errors to get training data which takes the vast majority of the time. Additionally you then need to sim clothing on top. Vellum in houdini and houdini muscle and tissue could also be a lot better. I have experience with different muscle sims. I took a little break from simming but I'm getting back into it now.
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>>995494
I think in the near term ml deformers will power mesh specific muscle and close-proximity cloth deformations for real-time charactera, and also for high end cinematic work (that might be limited to pre-vis to help animators though).
On a longer term I believe the process will generalise to morphs of base meshes (metahuman first them daz if they're not retarded) and ultimately to any humanoid mean regardless of topology
Scaling data has worked for other problems and with this problem specifically data is incredibly easy to generate
Eventually (5-10 years) I expect to see this powered by large scan data sets, likely from Facebook's reality capture labs. Less than 5 years till they do something with facial scan data.
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>>995488
Oh yes the average person can do 50 degrees, no anon we can’t. Once you reach 40 you lose balance and even if you push to 50, you’re going to fall.
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>>995500
>facebook
>metahuman
>daz

come on man. I was trying to take you seriously. What zucc does is almost certain to become a failure and abandoned. You need to come back to reality. Sim isn't just about simming a static human to get static muscle deform, but an animated character that doesn't exist, wearing clothes that affect and deform the tissue in ways that no one has ever seen while being attacked by a group of other creatures all at once _and_ having the digits and limbs all dynamically solve against each other and have the "tissues be able to move the bone" which traditionally wasn't possible until people started making multiple sets of tissue enabled bones instead of only one bone set
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>>995503
Americans aren't persons
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>>995503
Either you're exceptionally stiff, or I happen to be much more nimble than the average person, although I really doubt that. This is really not that hard to do, and I'm almost 40, and never do stretches or anything like that. I literally just stood up, and lifted my thigh higher than it is in the pictures here, while standing straight on one leg. Doing for example pic related, should not be difficult for anyone under the age of 40, if it is, you are definitely stiff. A pose like this will have the same deformation issues as the example in the first post.
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>>995520
That’s squat, anyone can do that, what you’re claiming about is the balance isn’t real. Unless you think holding onto something and using your hands counts which isn’t what OP is referring to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlRNxGpyCPc

Yes they’re kids I can’t find better material on amateur cheerleading, sue me.

As you see the cheerleader’s leg can only go up to a certain height until she needs to find her balance. You’re forgetting the feet and knees are also weighed, this is why you can only do it for a few seconds.
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>>995503
>>995477
>human body cant
>show me a human body
>human human human
wake up. these arent humans. theyre 3d models. if you dont want your butts big or your legs over 50 degrees then don't model them or animate them that way.
otherwise the rig itself ought to be stable beyond your use case.
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>>995537
So you agree with me? Any healthy individual can achieve this amount of leg bend easily, which would cause the deformation issues OP is complaining about. The deformation issues are going to be there, whether you achieve this by holding your leg with your hands or not. Yes, lifting your leg requires you to shift your balance to the other leg, no shit. Literally no one is talking about that, except apparently you. Whether the pose is balanced or not is irrelevant to the deformations that are going to happen. You don't waste time balancing a pose when testing out how your rig's skin weights work. The op isn't trying to create a good pose here, they're testing deformations, and that amount of bend, is perfectly normal in several poses, as you've just proven even yourself. Have you ever rigged a character in your entire life, or have you even the slightest understanding of what it involves?
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>>995537
wtf is wrong with you? what are you arguing? stop thinking about tendons and meat for a second. you have a cloud of vertices and a joint driving deformation. when the verts are at 1.0 influence they orbit a central point. but when at less than 1 the vertices do not complete partial orbits. they instead cut the corner and the volume of the cloud decreases. that is the problem youre having. the limits of the human body dont matter at this point. that is for the animation. this is the rig.
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>>995541
>>995543
>>995544
>iCaNRiG
>Poorly designed model not built for flexible movement
You can not rig, trying to make human into cake with poor judgement like you lot have always ended in bad results.
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>>995537
>>995550
Seek professional help.
>>
>build rig
>it works
>random indian on the internet says i cant rig.
>he can't post his work at all.
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>>995552
>>995554
Like I said, you're bad at rigging.
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>>995576
You can do a basic joint rig, congrats. You're still missing the point. I'm not calling you mentally impaired due to any potential rigging skills you might have, I'm doing it because you seem incapable of understanding the ongoing discussion, and are arguing against points that no one ever brought up, whether it be due to lack of mental capacity, or some misunderstanding due to a lack of language skills. Assuming you're the same idiot who wrote this >>995537
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>>995576
What the fuck is this garbage?
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>>995583
>>995584
All talk and nothing to show, I quickly make this model so yes it’s not clean. However since I worked at creating many creatures you see in media. There’s nothing i have gotten wrong about it. The creatures i made are as you guess blendshape and rigged. Why should I listen to a bunch of random people like you who can’t create anything like me or work daily on creatures.
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>>995588
good point.
www.conceptart.com
there go you. that's where you belong good bye.
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>>995591
You know that model kinda looks familiar… Maybe think twice about what you say to people.
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>>995595
what? are you trying to impress me? thats really pathetic, and you talk like youre indian.
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>>995600
You’re the one who challenged me and now you’re being pathetic about it. You can’t do anything like i did, i work at this kind of market. You lack any knowledge of 3D modeling and technical skills. If only i can break NDA agreements i can show you real monsters like the ones you see in Dark Souls or Bloodborn.

You show nothing and are nothing to us in 4chan. Anyone can say and google but can you really show the skills.
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>>995613
NTA, but no one challenged you. You're the one who started rambling about things not related to the topic at all, and when people called you out on it, you started bragging about your work like a prepubescent child. Learn to read.
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>>995613
what is this? wtf is this shit? is this a worm or is it joined rigid cylinders in a sock? we're talking about RIGS and not only did you not post a rig at all you posted an example of shitty weight painting.
>hur dur i extruded and hit smooth im a professional.
i bet you really are one of the millions of vfx sweatshop workers. no one cares. least of all here.
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>>995627
You’re the dumbass who thinks legs can do impossible things. I showed you a video and that wasn’t enough?! Really, what human can do a 70-80 degree leg up.

What part of “show your work” isn’t a challenge in 3D, are you a newfag? Why even say such things when you know someone might post something.

>>995629
It’s not smooth, 100% cube not like a noob like you understand basic professional skills. I also said it was rush, i have real work to do that pays me for my skill. The model obviously is missing IKs and controls, that’s why I said it’s rushed, the maya playblast is obviously showing me moving the bones.

So let’s run things down:

1) you failed at noticing it’s a maya playblast

2) you failed at identifying the difference between sculpting and modeling

3) you failed to read

4) you fail at 3D because you still never showed proof

5) you failed to notice animation references

This is why Blender users like you are creating the problem in 3D. You’re dumb.
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>>995640
Are you perhaps a little person? Because real humans can do about 120° forward and 20° backwards at the hip joint. Just so you know.
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>>995613
I believe you because my uncle works at Nintendo and he told me that everybody knows you and how talented you are.
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>>995640
can you seethe any harder?
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Sorry for the jank but I'm busy today. This is about 100° at the hips and it's a perfectly natural pose. Just because Blender's Armature modifier is broken it doesn't mean everybody in the world should limit themselves to 70° per joint. If you know how to do it, you can do 150°, which is necessary at the knees and at the elbows.
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>>995640
Most humans can. Yes, you showed us a video. A video that clearly shows people doing much more extreme angles than you claimed were impossible. It's even in the fucking thumbnail. Most can't hold such extreme angles for a long time obviously, but that is irrelevant, even if it's just for a moment, your rig needs to be able to account to that moment. And even assuming it wasn't possible, you still should be accounting for it, since even in realistic animation, you often need to exaggerate some. The OP was asking for advice on how to deal with deformations in these more extreme angles, and you start spouting nonsense about the this being impossible for a human, which it isn't. You obviously can't hold that exact pose due to balance reasons for maybe more than a moment, but that angle itself happens in many poses. Seriously, go lie down in a bed, and try lifting your leg up, if you seriously can't lift your leg to around 120 degrees in relation to the bed, there is definitely something wrong with your body. Besides that, the pose itself is not the point, it's the angle causing bad deformations. Why this seems impossible for you to understand, is a mystery.
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>>995650
>Still no work
No one believes what you have to say, no work no reputation.

>>995674
>Split second
>BuT YOu CaN DO iT
No you can’t, now even science is against your nonsense.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-023-05184-6

What you failed to understand is the reality of the human condition. Leg goes up means defining gravity, the other times you see it do 80 degrees or so was not in pressure with gravity. The girl squatting is bending her legs which was common thing to do when sitting but becomes trope for bad people. The photographer must have quickly took photos as any professional would so the person doesn’t get uncomfortable.

The video i show also had them get hurt, guess where, yes the leg specifically the thine. So again, your nonsense is just nonsense.
>>
Can this pajeet get banned already and stop shitting up this thread with his fecal curry? This nigga can't stop redeeming
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>>995680
I don't really get the full breadth of your and the other anon's argument. But if I may interject, as someone seeking to create coomer material, one of my concerns is how exactly do you fold girls into a pretzel, and still have the deformation look good. I do believe it requires more flexibility than you're willing to admit. Granted, much of the flex actually comes from forward pelvic tilt. But even considering that, it's very difficult to get good deformation from poses such as pic related. The legs are at an extreme angle, and even twisted what appears to be 90 degrees inward. Getting this level of flexibility is what people want. And yelling that it's not possible isn't helping anyone.

If you stopped typing for just a moment, and walked over to your nearest table or stool, and propped 1 food atop it, and bent forward, then you would realize such flexibility is actually easy for the average person. Even if it's assisted. Someone just might want to do a pose like that, and they would be limited in their options, if they listened to your strict angular constraints.

Also, I'm not going to post my work, because I still haven't quite figure out the trick myself. And I came into this thread looking for a solution. Only to find walls of text of people bitching.
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>>995680
I give up, you're beyond help.

>>995684
The solution is this >>995437
blendShapes are easier to do, but less transferable, if you want to use the rig as a base for multiple characters with potentially different topology. Helper joints are a bit more work, but the added flexibility is nice. It's hard to say where exactly to stick the joint, as it will depend on the mesh and rig, just experiment with different positions. If you're on Maya, you can also stack skinClusters, which makes it less troublesome to add more helper joints, but can be a bit finicky. You can get passable results with just good weight painting and well positioned joint as well, but the more exaggerated the character, the more likely you'll want to do corrective stuff.
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>>995688
But can you give an example of how you used "use corrective blend shapes" or "corrective helpers"?
Because to me "blend shapes" for posing are really hard to make and maybe it's my skill issue, so I want to see how a talented artist like yourself does it.
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>>995689
I'm not talented, I've just been doing this for over 15 years, although I'm an animator, before I'm a rigger. I don't know how it's in other software, but in Maya, what I do is: I create an empty BS, set its weight to 1, and then pose the character to the problem pose using the rig. Then I use Maya's "sculpting" tools (if you can call them that) to do edits to the BS (you can do this from the shape editor), to look the way I want it to look in that pose. Make sure to set the BS under the skinCluster in input hierarchy, for this to work properly, and of course delete the original mesh that created the BS, in this case. What this basically does, is that it give you a sculpting layer, that you can sculpt on, regardless of the pose your character is in, moving it with the skinCluster, and you can then connect the weight attribute to whatever joint you want controlling the BS.
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>>995691
Can you show something in image format instead of typing about it?
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>>995693
That would take much more effort, I'd need to record a video of the process for it to be meaningful in anyway. I'm not a teacher, I'm here giving tips, not tutoring. Surely this is clearer than a picture of a deforming butt? If you want more comprehensive instructions, I'm sure there's plenty of tutorials on the subject on youtube or other similar sites.
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>>995695
But I want some new nightmare fuel specifically from you after the jannies wiped out the board.
>>
If I remember correctly there's a modifier in Blender that preserves volume.
Of course not the perfect solution but for some this may already be "enough"
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>>995696
Sorry, but I'm not spending an hour of my life making a tutorial for you.

Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwU6aAi3mtc

I didn't bother to look if he uses the same workflow as I do, but should be educational, if you have no prior experience.
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>>995697
I don't know if it's the same thing you're talking about. But there's something similar in Maya, basically you use dual quaternion instead of the linear skinning method for you skinCluster. But it comes with its own issues, although overall it's a better option than using linear.
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>>995698
So you're not going to post anything of yours and you'll just continue to run around posing as an expert.
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>>995683
>>995688
Cry more, blendet like you will never make it.

>>995684
What you’re looking at is people who spend hours to flex their muscles. Just like someone will spend hours to lift 70 pounds of iron. Plus the cartoons like motion of your preferences is as you said cartoonist.

If you want to make better motions look like human figures then you either fake the perception or use SFX in video editing. If you had a studio with hundreds of people then a team would be placed to better represent the scene. Programming team would handle the specific situation and the art team could handle the creative side. Since you don’t have a studio, you only have limited options.

>>995689
There’s no correct way to blendshapes or keyshapes. The creations i made were build for certain specific characters. Even human characters have different shapes, they either be skinny or fat. You just have to learn it from hands on experience.

>>995696
Hello I create monsters as a living, i have more experience than that scary cat that uploads YouTube videos. Show some respect.
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>>995703
But can you give one example of your work with "blend shapes" for posing in .jpg or .png format instead of just talking about it?
You have 15 years experience in character creation, so how hard can it possibly be to just take a screenshot of one of your editing sessions?
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>>995434
They suck no matter what.
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>>995704
You're replying to a different anon. And I never said I have 15 years of character creation experience, I said I'm an animator first, that means most of that time was spent in animation. I can still rig, since it's a useful skill for an animator to know, and have been doing it a bit more in recent years, after going solo. Whether you use my tips or not, is up to you, I'm not looking for an ego boost here, unlike this guy >>995703

>>995708
Perfection.
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>>995711
You're not the other anon, so you're not going to post anything. Am I right?
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>>995712
Guess you're not entirely illiterate after all.
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>>995713
And so because you're an expert as opposed to a delusional schizophrenic and I'm not entirely illiterate, then you're not going to post any of your work. Am I right?
>>
>you’re kinda pushing the human body into unrealistic poses like that
>>
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>>995704
The faker who doesn't show his work has zero experience. Here is my work:

https://pic8.co/a/25af304e-624b-451b-96d1-9d14951c26c4

There's many number of ways to do things in blendshape or keyshape. I start with copying the original, plan your changes, remember to have it "in between", do the animation and render it to be done.

Here is a video of what happens step by step:

https://streamable.com/07n9xq

the gif you see is the final, used playblast instead of rendering.

I think you're asking how "in between" works because that's the thing you need to learn to get that shape in a certain frame. Blender has it like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ14VNhy8aQ

So no matter what, you will need a second/third copy and hide it from render if you choose to go this route.
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>>995688
I've attempted to make helper joints before, and they do help in some poses. But then look awkward in other poses. As when you rotate a main joint one way, the helper joint may follow in a proper manner. But then when you move the main joint another way, the helper joint follows in a poor manner. So then it becomes a convolution of trying to get the helper joint to only move certain ways when the main joint moves certain ways. This relies on a lot of dependency issues. So now you're adding more constraints, and getting lost in the sauce. It pretty much feels impossible to get a helper joint to always move where you need it to move for all angles.

Shape keys make more sense, but it's still a lot of work. I just don't want to do it. It's frustrating that there isn't an easier, more intuitive way of rigging that gets smooth results.

I remember one anon using some method where he preserved volume, then added corrective smooth, then doubled up the armature. Or something like that. I forgot. I tried his method a while back, and while it did get some smooth results, it would sometimes over-smooth some zones. But regardless, his method got the best results for the least amount of effort.
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>>995723
You don't usually need in-between shapes for corrective shapes that often, since usually you're just patching up minor deformation issues or maybe adding some wrinkle/bulgy detail, so a linear transform is almost always good enough, as most of the movement is coming from the rig itself.
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>>995724
Don't constrain the joint directly to something, use various math nodes/clamps and so on to drive each axis separately through the joint. Driven keys work nicely also, but I'm not sure if blender has something similar. For reference, driven keys are basically animation curves, that use an attribute to play it, instead of time. So you can have for example a joint's x rotation value drive the animation you've done for the helper joint. That said, yes it is much more difficult to setup well, compared to just doing shapes keys, where you can just sculpt things to look exactly the way you want, instead of fiddling with skin weights and driven keys.
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>>995728
I think driven keys are the equivalent to "drivers" in blender. I tried learning drivers a couple times. But the menus are really awkward. It requires some higher level math than I'm accustomed. If you go look up driver tutorials, they don't even bother explaining the math, they're just like "copy and paste this equation".

There is a transform constraint that can do more or less what drivers do, with more intuitive menus. I can set those up no problem. It just takes a lot of time to set up like 12 transformers to account for the positive and negative of every axis, for both rotation and locations. And then when you try to symmetrize the bone, Blender goes retarded and doesn't invert the math on the transformers correctly. So you have to take time cleaning up all the broken transformers on the other side. It's a huge pain in the ass.
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>>995723
Man, that "animation" is really fucking embarrassing
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>>995742
I am not going to spend hours creating something after I worked for the day. The guy wanted educational advice not dumb google searches you found.
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>>995742
>>995698
Show your work fraget
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>>995640
>>995680
Jesus fucking christ what a stupid discussion. I suppose I'll add to it.
I have a very hard time believing someone with such a poor understanding of weight and balance could be a professional animator, but if you want to make an appeal to authority maybe you'd better enjoy networking with rookie animators on twitter where you can use your reputation to give them advice. If someone explains to me how to do something I can find no end of demonstrations by myself.
>>
>>995780
Don't bother. They're either mentally ill, or just trolling. Whatever you post, they'll find some reason why this doesn't prove anything, and keep claiming it's unrealistic for a human to do. Although they never did claim to be an animator, they're claiming to rig creatures at a professional level instead. Of course, any decent rigger should be able to animate at least at a junior level, to better understand the needs of the people who use the rigs.
>>
>>995780
>>995783
>YoUCAnDoIt
>Holds his legs, bends it and last for 10 seconds
Bitch this just disproved your argument. Your muscles are fighting back against you. We can clearly see your leg bend. It’s the same logic a photographer does to actors. The same logic Buddhist uses when performing. This is why you’re wrong and a fake.
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>>995780
>>995783
>>995794
See? Like clockwork.
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>>995794
>>
>>995811
Yet you still have zero evidence

>>995812
That’s a YouTube video paused exactly when she lifted her leg while also bending her body. Don’t lie, we can all see it.
>>
>>995830
Shut the fuck up already, fat pajeet with scoliosis.
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>>995835
You had 2 whole days to build something and prove yourself. You’re a fake and will always be a fake.
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>>995835
Can you stop blaming every retarded post on Indians?
>>
>>995830
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3JMS8buynI
>>
>>995849
>A pro
What part of normal people cannot do it and without support from hands, items and supernatural events, do you still not get. The photo of OP the very thing we been talking about the reason it’s unnatural scratching. It’s OP who has the leg, no support is his downfall for his work.

Gosh what an idiot do you have to be to believe a LEG yes a LEG that i been telling you about, a LEG we been saying stuff about. The LEG that doesn’t obey the laws of physics.

Not the motion of the LEG to the human body for a split second. Not the LEG supporting mechanism and definitely not the LEG model.

You are an idiot.
>>
Why are people still replying to this retard? Just ignore the idiot.
>>
>>995856
>Why are people still replying to this retard?

I don't know about other anons but I'm a custom GPT being trained to examine how hot the business end of an average schizo-posters crack pipe is.
By means of inference, as a venue of investigation I'm therefore prompting nutjobs to gather important research data.

>>995853

Please sir, tell me moar about 'LEG' and why it is delivered in all caps. What physical laws(plural) is it you perceive are being violated by LEG?
I may be slow to understand but I'm not an idot just provide me with more context to help me better understand.

Btw do you happen to have a piece of glassware nearby? Has it recently been used to incinerate something?
If so might I ask you provide a temperature read-out of both each ends of the device, it's for a science project and it really would help a bunch!
>>
>>995856
>>995878
LEG = Limb’s Extension for Gastrocnemius muscle

Everyone knows this.
>>
>>995794
>>995830
None of that means that a 3D model should be unable to strike this pose in the same circumstances. This thread is, even, explicitly and in particular, about 3D models that should be able to reach such poses.
>>
>>995893
That’s bad animation, that’s the certain things I hear people like you speak crazy about and never once did such things. You are not an animator or have worked shown to us. All you are claiming is bad position of the body are fine but in reality it’s not.
>>
>>995904
None of that is relevant to OP wanting to be able to animate his character reaching this pose. Do you treat your professional clients like this too?
>>
>>995904
PYW, and no, that worm you posted doesn't count. Literally anyone who has used any 3d software for a few days can do that in a couple minutes. What you're saying, proves that you know nothing about what constitutes good animation. Good animation constantly breaks what's physically possible, some times even if the animation is aiming for realism. Good animation is not copying real life, it's referencing it, and presenting good acting and movement in a believable and clearly readable way, that does not always equal realistic movements. Why do you think studios hire animators, despite using mocap? Yes, it's for cleaning it up from unwanted data, but it's also for exaggerating movements when needed. If your rig can't cater to the needs of the animator, it's a bad rig.
>>
>>995916
What part of rushing do you not understand. I won’t make a model that takes one week to satisfy you. I’m not even in charge of the materials in my job and those guys take 3 days to get one UV ready.

Once again you’re playing the “expert” and have zero understanding of animation. There’s limits, monster models I built can be goofy but once they are done they can’t be realistic. You just see oddly and out of experience. Just like skyrim and GTAV mods, it doesn’t work because it was never designed for such. Heck even real world stuff like wearing gold is the dumbest thing, also why even walk when running is fast enough. Another example is kicking when your body will 100% hit the person, etc.

What you say isn’t correct or accurate to human nature or context. That’s what my teacher would say is bad people who don’t care enough about the project.
>>
>>995917
I guess having an industry job means that you don't need to understand project requirements when your managers and art directors do that for you.
>>
>>995917
I understood that it's rushed. My point is, that posting something you farted out in less than 5 minutes, is not posting your work. So asking others to post their work, when you haven't done it yourself either, is silly. As for your other points, it's honestly useless to talk to you, since you either have obvious trouble understanding what people are trying to tell you, deliberately pretending to not understand them, or trouble writing out what you mean in a way, that others would understand it as you intended. Since 90% of the text you write, has nothing to do with any of the points everyone else is making, or is arguing points that don't matter for subject at hand.
>>
>>995917
You go around the board every day posing as an expert, misleading people, ruining threads and bragging about how good your hand drawn shape keys are. You've been doing that for a long time with full jannies blessing. And you don't have anything prepared to prove it.
>>
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Starting to add iTaSC IK to this model, although I'll probably switch to the Megaman one.
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>>995918
It’s a team effort, the boss wants working polished models. The ones you amateurs make, break or become disorientation to the viewer.

>>995921
>>995924
It’s not even 5mins, you just assume the worm from Dune is not handled correctly but the moment i showed it’s wireframe you have nothing. Then I spent 30 minutes getting a good presentation ready for anyone to understand. I didn’t even go into the programming side or node, why should you a amateur care about that. 99% of modeling people, including Maya can’t understand bifrost and i can guarantee you that no computer will save it from crashing maya.
>>
>>995924
>>995921
Says the people who never had uploaded a single photo.
>>
>>995939
Whatever you say but are you going to talk about how good your hand drawn shape keys are for posing? Aren't you going to post anything?
>>
>>995940
You are the one who brags about being an expert.
>>
>>995939
Actually, your worm thing is not even on topic for this thread and not what I've asked you.
You brag about how good and easy to use your hand drawn shape keys are for character posing. You brag about being an expert and a professional. I want to see some proof of that and I also want some new nightmare fuel.
>>
>>995942
>>995944
It’s blendshape in maya, still I don’t blame you amateurs for being confused about the wording: https://help.autodesk.com/view/MAYAUL/2022/ENU/?guid=GUID-C954C197-6D56-4EB8-BEA0-70DD1BBBAD6B

Also you’re so lucky that’s a weekend so i do have time to work on something. Don’t have adobe stuff so don’t cry foul because of the textures.
>>
I tried
no shape keys and no drivers and no double quaternions
https://files.catbox.moe/q6n0zb.blend
critiques and improvements welcome
>>
>>995946
You could try making your own version that is designed to work for you instead of grabbing a random model and assume things work.
>>
>>995947
But I made that. What's not working?
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>>995946
Try to reproduce this pose and you'll see the issue.
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>>995951
>>
>>995952
Using the armature modifier, not by modeling it by hand. Unless you're happy with just modeling it by hand.
>>
>>995953
It's literally just an armature.
>>
>>995954
If you say so and you're happy with it, then be happy with it.
>>
>>995939
You are a nigger and a scrub, shut the fuck up
>>
>>996073
What? Scare that he’ll actually upload a nice monster that fits the description. While you a fake with no photos will get made fun of.
>>
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>>995944
>>996073
Here is your free monster, if you're complaining about something that was done for free instead of paying for artists then you have a problem. I have work tomorrow unlike you amateurish anon who won't post their work. The Bifrost crash Maya 5 times just to get this photo. This is literally the best my computer is willing to eat my resources, so again no complaints from noobs.
>>
>>996139
Surely there's no way any professional would truly be insecure enough to actually bother trying to prove themselves to a bunch of strangers like this? And why on earth are you bragging about your Bifrost skills in a rigging thread of all places? If someone asks you to prove that you can brew a cup of coffee, do you make them an omelette instead?
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>>996139
this doesn't convince me of anything you've said
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>>996139
Holy shit
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>>996143
>>996146
>>996147
None of you have any right whatsoever, never paid me and expect to do premium service under 2 days is ridiculous. No photos, no skill. The real losers are you.

Do the things i do anon:
1) Texture the model
2) hair system
3) physical touch
4) gravity
5) fire effects
6) renders

Do the things anon or forever be labeled as a fake. I know you can’t because bifrost is extremely impossible for amateur 3D artists.

Also, you never told me anything, I had free rein to create anything. Who said I have to spend my free time not getting paid.
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>>996143
>>996146
>>996147
Maybe you losers should share your work. Here is my submission.
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>>996155
Amazing, you can take screencaps of some shitty Chinese animation. I kneel.
>>
>>996156
How do you know? What’s the name of it? There’s hundreds of 3D animation and you just assume it’s from China. Plus you’re still not proven right about yourself faking everything.
>>
>>996160
5 seconds with google lens
https://www.anisearch.com/anime/12979,huan-jing-nuo-de-lin/screenshots
>>
>>996155
If you can access the outside internet you should use this opportunity to learn about the tianamen square massacre and the great leap forward and the four pests campaign and the Tibetan organ harvesting and uyghur genocide rather than shitposting here
>>
>>996161
>>996179
That’s not google lens it’s a website with 2000 ads and blocks you for it. Not only that but you know it’s released in bilibi instead of TV like normal anime is odd itself as there’s hundreds of 3D Chinese videos from the site. One would have to know exactly where to find it. It’s a video that isn’t fames like King’s Avatar or Cat’s Tea anime.

So faker i’ll ask again, do you even do anything related to 3D or are you just a fan?
>>
>>996191
It's literally the first result when searching the image with google lens. Just because you don't know how to use it, or can't access it from inside the Chinese firewall, doesn't mean others can't.
>>
>>996207
The url you put is not even Google.com why are you lying.
>>
>>996212
Why are you so god damn stupid
>>
>>995691
>>995699
Here's a short simplified clip illustrating my method of painting corrective shapes in Maya, which I talked about in the earlier posts above. It's not necessarily the most optimal way out there, but I find it intuitive. I'm not sure if there's a similar way of doing it in blender, but hopefully it's still helpful to some of you who said that you have trouble creating corrective shapes.

>>996139
>>996191
>>996155
>>996154
>>996212
Contribute to the topic, or go stroke your fragile ego somewhere else.
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>>996215
>Noob does amateur things
That’s completely wrong and the book also doesn’t recommend it. You should stop giving bad advice to others if you’re not an experienced modeler.

My advice from way back >>995448
is simply correct as a means to fix the original problem then your nonsense of altering the problem to cause another problem later on.

We don’t do that here anon.
>>
>>996221
You should take that book, throw it in the trash and then jump in yourself too.
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>>996229
You mean this world famous book that everyone who ever questions how rigging works goes to for answers. Not only does it cover Maya but Blender too, making it worth the price to buy it.

Everyone always recommends this book. My teacher, his teacher and it’s always part of the top 5 recommendations.

Only a amateur would say crazy stuff about the book. You just exposed yourself anon, no expert would dispute the books contents.
>>
>>996221
There's nothing wrong with the book, but like with all your replies, you're missing the point and talking about things that don't relate to the topic in anyway. It's like someone was talking about making fish soup, and then you'd come arguing about the intricacies of deep frying chicken. Are you an AI bot or something? Since that is the only situation I've seen this kind of behaviour, outside of literal children.
>>
>>996237
Look we know you’re fake and we don’t blame you for not knowing how we experts do things. But you gotta stop faking. The advice you give is bad and you need to learn from it.
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>>996243
As an expert, you should know that most game-ready models are made of triangles, so according to your book, how am I supposed to pose those models since they don't have clear edge loops?
>>
>>996233
The anon isn't saying that the book is bad or wrong. He's saying that you deserve to get assraped by its pages.
>>
>>996250
Those methods were a thing back in the older days of PS2 and MMO era. WOW is the biggest example of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOKmJq7RBLY

Also note that certain blender users never cared about polygons or why such methods exist. This results in a toxic community that taught newcomers bad habits. The models you have were never designed for flexing past human behavior and you’re just assuming too much from myths told by blender.

One last thing about the model is the animation side of things weren’t designed for super up close action. We can see it having painted with the skin to give the illusion of clothing. Same methods with Genshin Impact but the model you have isn’t modern enough and it will look weird for any close up.
>>
>>996212
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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>>996295
>Google lens
>anisearch.com
Not only did you link a random website that no one knows and blocks people who use adblocker. You claim false information about Google Lens when it’s dumb AI can’t understand the difference between monster hunter and dragon’s from skyrim.
>>
>>996325
First of all, I'm not that anon.
second of all, shut the fuck up.
>>
>>996361
How willing you are to give up adblocking to prove its not Google lens is mysterious. Also doesn’t prove much on how you knew about the anime being in Chinese website. Let me tell you the whole introduction was nothing but souls like story writing. Someone would’ve to know it’s anime from a very negligible angle and would have to watch the whole series.

So anon how did you personally know a no name tv show from Chinese bilibi?
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>>996365
Do you even know what google lens is?
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>>996367
Do you know Chrome is spyware. Plus since you are not the other anon, who had confirmed the existence. It’s only because of the lingering text that Google copied did it find it. And who also made it popular within a certain period, that’s right the anon.

Last time i checked there’s no such website or reference to the show. The anon who put the url to boost website status on google is the reason for your post.
>>
>>996395
Your government is spyware.
I confirmed this two days ago and figured that since it was so blatantly obvious and accessible to everyone I wouldn't even need to post about it. But since you confirmed that the source was indeed this animation, demonstrating that you have better knowledge of this than other users in this thread do, I can assume that you're Chinese, and since China is a communist shithole, it's predictable that people from there would be unable to perceive reality. So whatever. You have propaganda-induced schizophrenia.
>>
>>996395
Shut up and post some more nightmare fuel.
>>
>>996399
You’re the one who knew about the website. Google doesn’t promote websites that aren’t paying it. You cause the chrome spyware to react to the website and update the information. I absolutely made sure it’s not part of Google database and yet there it is, one website of the exact url that Google is promoting. A 7 year old unpopular 3D mecha anime, tracked down by someone who uses Chrome. The facts don’t lie, your browser is tracking you.
>>
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>>996411
>>
>>996427
You have no body to blame but yourself. Everyone knows Chrome is spyware, there’s no other explanation for how it once didn’t find a very niche model in a anime that bearly existed on the internet. Come into Google’s database.
>>
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A little experiment, since the experts in this thread aren't posting anything.
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>>995434
add another butt bone with a driver
it's as simple
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>>995434
Add bones in the butt and link it with IK/driver.
Additionally you can check "Preserve volume" in your armature modifier and add a "Corrective smooth" bellow it. See this: https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/275168/how-can-i-do-a-split
>>
>>996591
>and link it with IK/driver
What formula do you type in there to keep the butt bones in sync with the IK?
>it's as simple
It's not. You may think so until you actually try for yourself instead of regurgitating stuff you read on the internet.
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>>996598
var * 0.9
To keep the bones in sync with the IK you simply target the IK's rotation.
I won't spoon feed you again Cris, those are literally things you can get on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnsYKGDpBtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNyGd3K72DA
>>
>>996602
Maybe it's a good thing that you don't even understand the issue.
>>
>>996602
This is why Blender is a laughing stock, you need to go through so many steps and know exactly what to create to achieve something. Maya? Know how to perform 3D modeling and rigging. It’s been half a month and OP still hasn’t received anything from blender, time to stop using this piece of crap.
>>
>>996610
That's so true. In Maya I can enable the no-topology option with just one click and I don't have to worry about my workflow.
In Blender while you spend your time re-topo-ing your all-quads, I'm already rendering and getting paid. Blender is truly free... of pay.
>>
>>996614
>>996610
rendering in blender looks better though so I'll stick to blender
>>
>>996616
Assuming you have something to render which was likely created in Maya.
>>
>>996616
What? While I don't use it due to it being mainly a CPU renderer, Arnold is objectively better than anything blender has to offer rendering wise in the same department, and if you're talking about 3rd party solutions like redshift or vray, anything note worthy that's available for blender is also available for Maya. Even if you do use Blender, no one serious about their work should settle with eevee or cycles when there's much better options available out there, for an inconsequential cost. You might prefer Blender's rendering workflow due to whatever reason, but saying renders look better through blender is just objectively false, or a result of user error. And even IF blender was better at rendering, it is incredibly simple to transfer an animated mesh from one program to another with something like alembic, and then render it with cycles or eevee or whatever you prefer, after you've animated it Maya first.
>>
>>996623
He doesn't know the STEEVEE and BICYCLES are jokes in the industry. Leave him with the illusion.
>>
>>996610
>hasn’t received anything from blender
I uploaded a whole blend file and the feedback I received was "if you're happy with it don't post."
The chink who thinks anisearch and google and his stalker are colluding to verify that his work is actually his in order to prove that legs can bend upwards at the hip isn't the only completely mental user on this board. It should be mandatory to take lithium if you post here.
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>>996557
Happy is the one with buttocks rigging.
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>>996625
NTA, but you were told that if you're happy with it, then go for it. No one said not to post. In 3d, only the end results and how long it took to get there matters. How you achieve the result you wanted is irrelevant, if it works for your use case.

>>996614
I've used Maya for years, and I can't tell what the fuck you are talking about. Maya does have good retopo tools, but topology is just as important here as in any other 3d software. There's plenty of good reasons to use Maya over Blender, and there's no need to come up with imaginary features. If there really is a toggle like this, post a tutorial making use of it, or a feature showcase that includes it.
>>
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>>996626
That's good in itself but the issue is that bends up to 90° work with default settings because they only lose 30% of the volume, so you can easily fool yourself into thinking that everything is fine.
The issue is when you have compound rotations and angles above 90°. For elbows and knees you need 160°.
Also, I've never told you to stop posting. What I meant to say is that if you're happy manually correcting your bends (either via shape keys or helper bones) and you're happy with it, then go for it. However you'll find out that that approach doesn't work unless you're a studio and you have a team of less fortunate people to assign to correct each joint.
>>
>>996627
>there's no need to come up with imaginary features
According to your logic, there's no need for people to have computers. Whoever asked for the Metaverse or for Zucc's AR glasses? Nobody. Exactly.
>>
>>996623
>>996618
blah blah show me some personal showreels that use Maya because I hardly see any and the ones I do usually look like shit. meanwhile you have those 3D challenges where nearly all the top 100 participants are using blender in their pipeline and getting studio quality results
>>
>>996632
Thanks but I'm not the original poster or the schizo that won't post her post (or Cris).
I haven't made my armature for knees, but I'll probably do that:
add a "knee" bone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbQX8C3lrHE
And two driver bones for the muscles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKORufmsLM
>>
>>996634
That YouTuber scans his creations, yes it still technically counts as 3D but that guy never touch Blender or Maya. The animation is also from another person who is getting paid. The background stuff in his livestreams are horrible examples of how to build backgrounds, he just smashed shapes together and hopes no one calls him out. Don’t trust those scammers.
>>
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>>996632
While it's definitely a decent amount of work to set up, I feel you're exaggerating in saying that it's only doable for a studio. If you're doing corrective joints, you really only need to do them once for each character type. For example, you likely will be able to transfer them to any other human character with relatively minor amounts of extra work, with maybe some minor weight tuning at most. Possibly some slight repositioning, but that's really not a big problem either. Here's one of my own rigs, using a helper joint to correct the deformation issues, while connected to the thigh's rotation, while also working as a butt cheek controller for manual animation, when needed.
>>
>>996677
Now tell the anon how this can break your bones in real life.

>BuT tHe ChARacTeR iS Not ReAl

And neither is your argument.
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>>996681
Admit it anon, you just want us to keep showing you sexy buttocks pictures :3
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>>996632
If I was happy with it I wouldn't have posted it here. I had an idea that I wanted to try out and share with other people who are looking at the same problem as I am. Maybe I've interpreted your post unfairly but it's not like you could have meant anything more productive.
>>
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>>996716
I don't have much time today. I just wanted to say that in addition to a new realtime joint correction algorithm, I've also done some work on the iTaSC IK solver. I think I was able to make it work as it was intended.
>>
>>996677
>>996716
I would agree but anon only rigged upwards to the thigh. Realistically the only weight difference between the bones from hip and buttocks would disorient the muscles. Don’t believe me try it and see how stupid adding weight tolerance to the butt sounds as more and more problems arise. Stop believing in this anon, he doesn’t know.
>>
>>996677
nice saving this to ref
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>>996729
Thank you ChatGPT. You're always so helpful.
>>
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>>996729
Whatever you say, anon.
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>>996742
The leg has IK physics that creates the unnatural motion of a claw clanging. This is not a good reference for anything.

>>996762
If you think i’m that schizo think again. You show poor judgement on your part. You never uploaded any real footage. You’re not a artist.
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>>996766
I haven't finished this rig yet, but if we have to go there, then let's go there.
>>996767
I have no idea what you're talking about and I've never done art. I'm a programmer.
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Or we could go here. And look... I don't care if this is triggering to some jannies. Fuck jannies.
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>>996773
Thought you were the other guy who posted the bad leg photo.
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>>996775
Just to clarify >>996774 is the old Makehuman standard female model. I'm not showcasing the art, I'm presenting my own algorithms that I've applied on top of it.
>>
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Here's the control rig visible, for anyone interested. A pretty basic and standard setup. I tuned the volume retention a bit. There was some noticeable volume loss, when the cheek was compressed here >>996766

>>996767
There's no physics there anon. Try again.

>>996774
Jannies won't care, as long as you don't post actual porn or genitals or maybe nipples. Although there's been threads with people posting rigged genitals and buttholes, and those were left alone so it's not exactly consistent. Why this is a blue board in the first place, while /ic/ is red, is a mystery.
>>
>>996780
Lie all you want, the moment you posted your “rig” was the moment everyone knew about rigify. Your entire rig control system makes no sense, the arrows are inside the genitals. The butt has two different types of controls each. Two controllers in the exact area as if you were too dumb to hula hoop the character correctly so you added more. Then the abs control are added for no good god dam reason. Why do you continue to being a fake expert if you’re always getting caught.
>>
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>>996783
If you're curious about how things work, you could have just asked. Here, just for you.
>>
>>996788
Again not how controlling rigs work, you literally just created something that doesn’t work in real world scenarios. Not a single puppet is created like this.
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>>996798
So, given your experience, what do you think of my iTaSC control rig. There is no Rigify and no pole targets and it's a game-ready model so it's all triangles.
>>
>>996829
I dont know what is happening because no one uses ancient methods to rig stuff anymore. I Had to look deep into JP version to get an idea: https://wiki.blender.jp/Dev:Source/GameEngine/RobotIKSolver

So you think using a dead game engine and an abandoned rig system makes you smarter. This explains why everything unnatural you did somehow works. Then when you told OP and the other guy, it caused them errors because the game engine was removed a long time ago. Only lasting 8 years, you have to personally keep the dead version to use this method.

Anon this is dumb...
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>>996829
>>996774
NTA, but out of curiosity, what is your goal with this and the other rig you've been posting? After looking into what iTaSC actually is, it seems quite niche as far as uses in 3D animation go, and it seems like it's not used much these days. Are you making a full body ik rig or something? That does seem to be one of the main uses for it. Or is this just for the sake of trying out something new? The popular game engines don't seem to support it either, so you'd need to recreate the rig inside them from my understanding, if you wanted to use the rig in a dynamic way for real time content. Or am I missing something?
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>>996861
It can be used in the game engine but it's independent from it. As I said, it appeared around 2.6 and is still present in 4.2 but has always shipped in a vandalized state.
>>996865
It does full body rigs in a way that you can pull a finger from an hand and have the pose propagate up to the foot on the other side.

Long story short, I've spent some time bug fixing it it and found out it's really good.
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>>996875
That is what I meant when I said full body IK. It has its uses of course, it's great for doing quick poses for example, and there's plenty of use cases in real time content, but it comes with its trade offs. For one it's obviously a bigger performance hit compared to a regular rig. But the bigger problem I have with them is that due to their nature you lose some minute control, which I at least find annoying when animating. So for manual animation I'd take a traditional FK/IK mix rig, over a full body IK one any day. Basically when polishing your animations, it is more often than not detrimental that the whole body reacts, instead of letting you do those reactions manually yourself. Of course, as with many things, it's a matter of preference, and how you're used to working.
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>>996882
>you lose some minute control
Yes but I don't have a team of less fortunate people to refine joints and animations, so for me it's not an option.
>obviously a bigger performance hit
After bug fixing it, the iTaSC solver does a full body rig with rather complicated constraints at 20 fps just like SFM or Cascadeur. If you try to use it as is, it literally takes 5 seconds per frame on a human rig.
While I was going through it I wasn't sure if it was tremendous incompetence on the part of the Blender developer who worked on the interfacing of the external library or deliberate vandalism. Like, if the Blender developers pulled a Dobarro on the iTaSC team too, as they do.
Also, I haven't read the source code of the standard IK solver yet, but I've taken a glimpse and I've immediately spotted a critical bug in there too.
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>>996885
I work alone also. Most animators who work solo use regular FK/IK rigs. I'd argue most people work faster with a regular rig. Well I guess it depends on the end result you're going for, if you're okay with rougher animations, then what you're doing will most likely be faster. But animating with a FK/IK rig is not the impossible task you're making it out to be. If you truly want faster output, I'd recommend looking into cheap mocap alternatives. But I won't argue this further, if this is what you want to do. And I'm not trying to change your mind, I was mostly just curious on why you've taken this approach.
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>>996861
What the fuck

>>996875
Are you actually using blender game engine?
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>>996898
Mocap works, I have examples from a while ago if you want to see them but it's annoying and it's not Skibidi.
>>996899
Not at the moment but I could. Some of the things I've shown do work in the game engine too. It's a future project.
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This could use more work. But just for fun.



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