>>271643244
I choose to believe after that one incident with Nagisa, Akio and Sanae chose to act like complete idiots on purpose just to liven up Nagisa’s life. Her being bedridden for a lot of her life, they probably didn’t want to see her be so sad.

>>271643244
>I wonder if Akio and Tomoya's dad would've gotten along
After the epilogue when Naoyuki stops being a hollow shell, they would get along.

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>>271643723
I think Akio more or less admits that, was funny when Tomoya eventually gets indoctrinated. >>271643739
Probably, no matter how it went it's such an interesting interaction that never happened.

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>be me
>finish highschool
>best friend moves on gets married and has a kid
>alone
>hear what happened
>try to reach out
>voicemails left unanswered
>wonder about him time to time

>>271643244
I feel like he’d look down on Okazaki for being a drunk and laying his hands on his son. Akio seems like a very protective, family-man type of father and would view him as someone who failed in his role as a father.

Did they ever interact in the show or VN? It’s been a while since I watched

>>271643244
Oh damn i never even thought about that
A story route with naoyuki and Akio would have been great

>>271644324
They never were shown to directly, but after Nagisa's death they contacted Tomoya's grandmother for him to visit. They must've at some point.

>>271644298
>Did they ever interact in the show or VN
No they don't
There is an Akio route but they don't interact

>>271644352
Meant for >>271644298
woops clicked while I was reading lol

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Nagisa, my beloved

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>>271644377
Dango Daikazoku.

>>271644434
Cute!

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Here op look at this

>>271644482
Wow this is awesome. I never saw this. Is this an actual CG from the VN or just bonus art?

>>271644482
Yukito in the background lol

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>tfw you will never have a very cute girl use your lap as a pillow
It hurts bros

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>>271644509
It's bonus art i think
It's not on the vn because it's not part of the vn story

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>>271644768
I was hoping so lol I played Clannad + Tomoyo After 12+ years ago and never saw it, wondered if I missed a route.

>>271644482
That's a big bowl for a little girl.

>>271644876
For you…

>>271643723
I'm pretty sure this is so blatently stated that it's an obvious plot point

I haven't rewatched it in 4 years, maybe it's time...

>>271644842
What a cute scene, I wonder what happened in the original instead of it.

>>271648461
No
It's literally the theme of clannad that miracles exist

>>271648508
I feel like that's pretty reductive, there's a lot there about growing up, family, dealing with change and overcoming tragedy that honestly just doesn't hit as hard after the ending

>>271648554
Well i definitely don't mind it
The opossite would be to continue with the misery but who wants that

>>271648584
Well, it doesn't really have to be one or the other. Before the sickness came back, his life was in a pretty decent place.

>>271648632
Eh
No...
He left his daughter to the furukawa's
I dont think he was "in a decent place"
Also i dont mind the ending because it connects the mysterious light orbs to the story.

>>271648632
He had nothing left to live for within the confines of the original story. Lore-wise iirc he quite literally dies from extreme grief after having lost the final thing left in his life that kept him going, which is why he started existing in the illusionary world
The theme and purpose of the story was about the importance of family here.

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Clannad means family.

>>271648678
Not sure if you haven't watched in a long time or something but he takes custody of her back after meeting his grandma and they live a pretty good life for a while before the sickness shows up again. Honestly feels like a better end to the whole journey

>clannad thread
>anon posts "eh, I think I wanted Clannad Man to suffer more, I would have preferred if he kept suffering"
Like pottery

>>271648760
Not just clannad man
Who wants to see ushio without a mother?

>>271648760
I have no problem at all with happy endings or happy stories, but making a character suffer and then literally erasing that suffering is just dumb my dude. Just make it a happy story if you're not going to let the sad things actually have real consequences.

>>271648791
Just watch AIR if you want that.
Clannad is just not the story for that.

>>271648758
If the theme of the story was about overcoming grief and finding happiness past loss and trauma then sure, but the author specifically said that the story's purpose was to highlight the importance of family. Tomoya's wife and only child dies in his arms and through his deeds of helping the people around him in a town he intially hated, he gets offered a chance to love a happy life with his FAMILY in a reality where they never died.
The story shows how much grief and suffering he goes through because of his decision to isolate himself from his father and the suffering he goes through from losing the loves of his life. The story shows just how important it was for Tomoya to keep his family at the forefront of his mind when going to work, and that it was his desire to care for his family that drove him to keep getting up every day to work a job he didn't really like. Tomoya even literally thinks about if life would have been better if he had never met Nagisa and then comes to realize just how important she was to his life. And then at the end of all this shit, the story shows just how much happier he is to be with his family if they never died.
Also the anime never really balatantly shoves this in your face unless you watched the extra episodes but Tomoya does in fact remember all that shit that happened to him. Everything he experienced he still remembers, he didn't just undo everything and forgot about it.

>>271648785
That was another thing yeah, the entire After Story segment was showing just how important it is to actually have a mother and a father for your child. Ushio suffered greatly because of the amount of neglect by Tomoya and the absence of her mom.

>>271648791
>but making a character suffer and then literally erasing that suffering is just dumb my dude
Tomoya remembers everything. Everything that happened to him happened for real and he still remembers it.

>>271648990
Yeah this is why i think the ending was the right decision
You just can't end with a child getting neglected like that

>>271648953
>If the theme of the story was about overcoming grief and finding happiness past loss and trauma then sure, but the author specifically said that the story's purpose was to highlight the importance of family
The emotional climax of the story has the main character dealing with his grief and learning to move on and be a good father in spite of that has happened to him, all done in a very powerful way. Then in the final episode all of that gets solved in a fairy tale-esque dumb way.

>>271649026
That doesn't really change anything for me. Death is powerful precisely because it's final and can't be changed. It's still a fact that the best episodes of the show focus on the MC dealing with his grief over a death that is reversed.

>>271649063
True.

>>271649063
>You just can't end with a child getting neglected like that
Rewatch the show. Tomoya was legitimately taking good care of Ushio and was absolutely not neglecting her by the end. They had found peace and that was a perfect end point.

>>271649086
But that wouldn't have solved the imaginary world plot thread.

>>271648953
>Tomoya does in fact remember all that shit that happened to him.
Huh, that's cool. The vn kinda implies that Tomoya has some memory of the routes he went through
since he does become more mature as the vn goes on.

>>271649110
Yes, obviously you would have to change how that played out also. Frankly, I don't think that plot adds anything at all interesting to the story so I'd be happy with it gone but it could also be something like just magically making Ushio healthy again, not actually going back in time to undo the death

>>271649142
Curing ushio but not nagisa?
That just seems even worse than the actual ending.

>>271649064
>family is very important. I think it's also important to have both a mother and father for raising a child because family is important. I will end this story about family with the main character coping the loss of both his only child and his since-deceased wife. Family's important and all, and ending the story with the main character learning to move on from grief definitely fits with the narrative of the story I'm trying to write
Or
>Family is important so I'm going to show a reality of what happens when the mom dies to show how important it is to have a wife/mother and then I'm going to show a reality of just how much happier and better it is for a family to have all the members present. Cause family is important. The main character, who begins the story as a spiteful prick who erroneously hates his father and hates his school and hates everyone else and the town he lives in ends the story as someone who learns to love his family and the town he lives in!

>>271649289
>to show how important it is to have a wife/mother
Is this really some deep lesson that had to be learned? You think that Tomoya didn't love his wife before all that? You think that we as an audience are enlightened by the deep message of "wow, moms are important"?

And to be clear, I don't think ending with Ushio dying would be a good ending, there's not even any meaningful exploration of grief over that since it gets reversed right away. The grief over Nagisa however is explored over several episodes which are the actual high point of the show, and undoing them hurts it overall.

>>271649366
>Bro thinks he's a better writer than Jun Maeda
Just give up dude. If you want nihlism and sadness go read something by Urobutcher, or if you want death and finality, read/watch Air

>>271649419
>nihlism
I guess nihilism is when you overcome tragedy, learn from it and from your mistakes and achieve a happy life with your daughter. You learn something new every day I guess.

>>271643920
Sunohara is literally me except I don't have girl friends.

>>271649366
>shifting the argument to “wow was it really that deep of a lesson?”
The theme of the story was the importance of family, every route in the story expands on this in one way or another. Having the story end with the main character living happily in a reality where everyone he loves never died to show how important family is seems to fit perfectly fine in my eyes. Yet for some reason you think having the main character continue to suffer and cope and recover from their loss would be a perfect conclusion to such a story. Your preferred ending does not make for a fitting conclusion to a story whose message is ‘the importance of family’. Your ending fits more for a story about finding happiness or peace past the death of a loved one. Like some other anon said, your ending has no place in Clannad.

>>271643244
I was in a really bad mental spot when I decided to watch Clannad and the series hit hard, not so much because of the drama but because of the coming of age relationships themes that I felt I missed in my youth.

>>271649490
>Your ending fits more for a story about finding happiness or peace past the death of a loved one
Of the last 6 episodes, 5 are about that. You can't erase the fact that the climax of the story is exactly about that by just pointing out that actually the main writer said that it's about moms

>>271649547
The author injects a part of the story where Tomoya realizes that his supposed asshole father only became the way he was because he had to take care of Tomoya all by himself. Tomoya quite literally has a life-changing epiphany and realizes that he is going through the same shit his father went through except he did not have the mental fortitude to keep going to take care of Ushio because the loss of losing Nagisa was too great, whereas his father made the hard decision to keep going for Tomoya’s sake and (in the words of Tomoya’s grandmother) loses everything. In the VN he monologues multiple times about how much different things would be if Nagisa were still around and often asks her what he should do when he momentarily loses confidence as a parental figure. The writer didn’t write all of this primarily as a story of learning to move on past grief. There is indeed an element of trying to cope past death, but the author wrote After Story in such a way that they include Tomoya’s father’s backstory in that exact moment specifically to highlight how much damage it causes to lose a family member.
If the story decided to end on Ushio’s death then sure, you could say the final few episodes WERE about moving past grief, but it didn’t. The reason why I’m able to argue about this at all is because the author chose to end Clannad in a reality where Tomoya’s wife and child never dies, which puts the prior events of After Story in a different context due to the existence of that very ending.

>>271649547
Honestly im not sure where you are getting that the story is about the "moving past death" when not only tomoya and his daughter deeply miss nagisa but Akio and Sanae too.

>>271649842
This is an extremely bizarre way of arguing where I say I don't like the ending and you just keep going "but that's just how the author wrote the ending". Well, yes. And I think the way he wrote it is bad and cheap and undermines a lot of the stuff that came before it for reasons I think I've made pretty clear by now. I don't think the message the author chose to go with is at all insightful or interesting and it's made worse by the fact that literally before the final episode it was handling things with a maturity that is rare to see in a lot of anime.

>>271649547
You’re not looking at the bigger picture and only focusing on those few episodes. You can’t just tell me “you can’t deny those episodes happened, the final few episodes were exactly about that” when this whole conversation happened because you refuse to accept the ending. I’m basing my argument on everything that had happened in the story, I don’t think it helps your point when you keep conveniently leaving out the fact the ending happened the way it did because it doesn’t fit your agenda. It’s a poor debate.
That’s not mentioning the entire rest of Clannad’s routes and stories, which all dives into aspects of family.

>>271649977
lol. Do you think that when people talk about moving on after experiencing grief they're literally talking about never missing the loved ones you lost? Moving on doesn't mean you don't miss them, it means you try your best to keep living a good life without being destroyed by grief. Like Tomoya was managing to do with Ushio.

>>271650051
I have one question
What do you think about the hospital Akio talk then?
It was a similar case but with Akio and not tomoya

>>271650016
All I was literally doing was arguing how your ending does not at all fit the themes of Clannad given everything that happened in the story (ending included). Of fucking course a lot of what I will say is “that’s how the author wrote things” because your entire argument is literally “I don’t like the ending, I would have preferred it another way” and then proceeded to back yourself up by saying some of the episodes were about Tomoya moving on past his traumas and shit.
Again, you are failing to look at the whole picture.

>>271650033
You seem to be confused if you think I'm trying to claim the ending the author chose with is not about family or whatever. I think the ending is bad and corny and undermines both drama and character development that came before it which wasn't simply about "family is good".

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>>271650167
I mean this conversation if it wasn't clear enough
It was in ep20 i think

>>271650195
No, my argument stemmed from the fact I told you that your ending doesn’t fit the themes of Clannad and you rebutted me. I never said you thought the ending wasn’t about family, everything I ever replied to you with was to inform you about the reasons for which the story was written because my original reply was “your ending does not fit the themes of Clannad” so every other reply I made was to explain why.

>>271650191
I think it works plenty well with everything that came before. In fact, you keep saying that the point was to "make him realize Nagisa was important" or some shit as if he didn't already know that. The actual real evolution in his character happened in the bad timeline where he came to terms with the way his dad was and decided to actually take care of Ushio instead of neglecting her. The theme of the importance of family is arealdy complete at that point, getting Nagisa back just erases any semblance of consequence in the story without adding anything insightful

>>271650195
>undermines […] character development
Tomoya lived through that and still remembers it.

>>271650380
Literally does not matter. He goes back in time and gets to redo everything without having to go through any of the things that prompted the character growth.

>>271650274
He didn't answer but that literally foreshadows the ending lmao

>>271650452
Is the argument supposed to be that you're not allowed to dislike something if it's foreshadowed?
Give me a fucking break dude.

>>271650347
You misunderstand, I told you the author chose to include the father’s backstory at that specific moment in order to emphasize the importance of having both parental figures to the READER. It’s literally the author going ‘see what Ushio’s life is like without a mom and dad? Pretty bad right? Well here’s Tomoya’s Father’s story, wow would you look at that’
>>271650422
>literally does not matter
It literally does because all those experiences were real and he lived through it for real. Having the opportunity to live a life where none of that happens doesn’t magically erase the growth he already went through. If you can explain how it does then by all means I’d love to hear why.

>>271650502
No
But don't act then like a fairy tail happy ending is out of the realm in this story then

>People are still arguing that Nagisa was supposed to be dead when Nagisa is literally just a town soul
Heh..
I mean, Clannad has quite a weak impact in the ending because of Ushio, and the way the townsfolk return Tomoya's favor feels weak since they are just people who are close to him. Ushio only appears in about one arc, and the anime is even worse since it doesn't show the bad ending unless you collect all the light orbs. Anyway, Samapoke is almost a fix for Ushio, but it also has its own problems

>>271650537
Good thing I never did that. I even said I'd have been fine with magic healing Ushio.

>>271650527
>Pretty bad right
Not really? It does take time but Tomoya with the help of the Furukawas eventually managed to achieve a pretty good life.
>doesn’t magically erase the growth he already went through
It does not do that but it does cheapen it.

>I don’t like the ending! I think it would have been much better if X happened!
>no, it wouldn’t fit with the themes (writes textbook length posts talking about the author’s intentions and themes of the story)
>uhhh I think that’s all dumb, you’re not listening to meee!!!!! (completely ignores everything)
This is fucking retarded, keep going

>>271650642
I understand you somehow think that Disney-tier endings are somehow thematically profound but you can't expect me to feel the same way.

>>271650642
It’s like arguing with someone who thinks Lord of the Rings is about war because there was a battle at Gondor and would have preferred if Frodo threw the ring into the volcano like a true hero because him succumbing to it undermines all the character development of trying to resist the ring

>>271650621
What about fuko?
Are you fine with her magic existence or not

>>271650642
We’ve had over thousands of Clannad threads and every single one of them has at least one faglord saying the ending is an asspull. Now you people know why we choose not to engage with them

>>271650754
Her story in season 1 is fine. It's one of the better of the side stories in the show though her coming back in After Story felt very sudden and underexplored.

>>271650750
I don't "think" Clannad isn't ultimately about family. I think the way they addressed that theme is banal and uninteresting and undermines other themes (yes! stories can actually have multiple themes!)

>>271650837
You might have selective ignorance, no one said you don’t think Clannad isn’t ultimately about family or whatever. Are you just inventing conversations in your mind?

>>271650837
What about shima turning into a cat
are you fine with that or not

>>271647525
hyuck hyuck

>>271650938
Well, since the analogy was fucking terrible I had to guess what you were trying to say. Frodo's succumbing to the ring in LOTR adds complexity to the story and is good. Clannad's ending turns a beautiful and complex story into a banal fairy tale.

>>271650955
It's fine, yeah.

>>271651021
>It's fine, yeah
Then why do you hate the ending?

>>271651039
I'm sorry, but you might be actually retarded.

>>271651081
No, you are fine with every other case
Why do you call this a stupid fairy tale ending

>>271651106
Every other case of what? When have I said that my main problem was simply the fact that there are supernatural elements?

My problem is with killing a character, then focusing 99% of the ending of a story on the MC dealing with the grief of that death but then having that death undone in the last 5 minutes

>>271651179
>Undone
They actually died, the death was for real, the character experienced it for real

>>271651199
They literally went back in time before it happened, it was undone, shut the fuck up.

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>>271650825
>one faglord saying the ending is an asspull
Not him, but the ending is really quite ehhh?? Like it feels a bit rushed, possibly because the release of Clannad was delayed for a long time, and the fanmade VN came out before the official one. It seems like they just needed to actually finish it or else fans would get angry kek

>>271651248
That's not how a vn production works

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Can you laugh freely, next to the one you hold most dear?

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>>271650429
Sticky Dango Family

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Holy fuck a Clannad thread!! I managed to catch it in time! It's tied for my favorite VN ever. I love Clannadbros. Puhiii!

>>271643723
>>271643789
Yeah, I agree! I wonder if Nagisa knows that they're hamming it up a bit.

>>271650825
This! Ignore those people who weirdly keep bringing up the same thing over and over again.

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Wow what happened to him
He looks different

>>271652007
lack of girlfriend lmao

>>271652007
CHADohara had to dye his hair back to it's original color to get a job

>>271652075
> t. Mei

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So is this (first heard about it in this thread) actually worth playing, like the snoot game that apparently was better than the actual volcano high game? Or is it a low effort troll game? The setting seems to be futuristic...

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>>271652243

>>271652318
She should introduce onii-chan to a girlfriend...
And a better best friend...

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>>271652259
Wtf is this
It looks like it was made in paint

>>271652375
Oh it's Japanese?? I thought it was made by western fans given the crazy setting long. If it's made by Japanese fans for some reason I feel like it'll be worth playing.
And the prose in your screenshot actually looks nice.

>>271649419
Based. Urobutcher sucks and Jun Maeda rocks!!!
You should have put the last part in a spoiler though... I haven't read all of the Key VNs yet...

>>271652428
I took the screenshot from vndb
I have no idea what nettanad is

>>271648791
You've been refuted a dozen times about why your opinion is wrong
You are simply choosing to be retarded at this point

>>271652843
I think he says it about (another VN series) muv-luv as well. basically anything with routes and different ends triggers him lol

>>271652007
Sunohara should have gotten tomoyo

thanks for talking about Clannad guys, been wanting to over the months and couldn't really get a thread going.

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>Clannad thread
>/v/ tier arguing takes up half of it
What a waste

>>271655247
Blame the ending hater anon.