(cont)
Now that we've defined exactly what NTR is, I'll now tell you what ISN'T NTR:

Infidelity/Cheating - A character cheating on another character is not NTR. It only becomes NTR when it's explicitly fetishized; aka- when a character gets horny over their partner being stolen. Infidelity and disloyalty are two uncomfortable components that can make for a complex and challenging relationship dynamic, but they do not fit well in all the wish-fulfillment scenarios we see being made today.

Fetishizing stealing someone's loved one - This is known as netori. The dynamics here are completely different to "NTR". Instead of fetishizing feelings of hopelessness and being pathetic, it is fetishizing being evil and powerful.

A female character being in a romantic relationship with any male character who isn't the MC - I wish I could say this is a joke, but it turns out this is actually how a large volume of modern demographics think. The mere presence of a female character in a relationship results in large swathes of otaku branding the work "ntr trash". It's so ridiculous that I don't even need to explain. It's precisely because such a large volume of the japanese market is like this that so much worthless templated crap gets produced like it's some kind of assembly line production.
One famous example that highlights this stigma was a VN called Kakyuusei 2. The writers made the ill-fated decision of having the main female character in a pre-existing relationship, and it drove the autistic fans insane.

>>284084902
realistic romance is boring and is for normalfags.

Case in point: shallow, unintelligent morons like >>284084938 saturate anime/manga demographics of today. Stupid people like this desire one thing only: pure idealism devoid of any complexity or challenging themes.

>cheating
Only good if it is a pretext to slut shaming and ruining and maybe even killing the perpetrator. This isn't going to happen nowadays, so fuck that.
>netori
Imagine trying so hard to get used goods. Lame as hell.

>Some of the greatest romance manga (and stories across all mediums) involve themes that are uncomfortable and challenging for a lot of people.
Perhaps men just don't find it entertaining to read a manga where the heroine doubts her feelings for the protagonist when another man courts her. It still exists in shojo manga, so it's not like you can't find it anymore. Must it be forced upon shonen romance manga when the paying customers don't find it appealing as a work of fiction? It's not like there's a huge lack of woman-centered romance stories, they dominate hollywood, books, television, visual novels, and any medium you can think of. Shonen romance is a very niche and specific genre but you want to stamp that out and make it like everything else. Why?

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>walls of text
>meltdown
>replies to everyone
>NTRfag

>>284084902
Who asked?

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>>284084902
You're 100% right OP. We should call it what it is. It's "cuck porn". All the japs who are into it are cuckolds, as well as you OP

Maybe realism and complexity isn’t the goal and it’s a good thing that men who are hopeless romantics can find an outlet for their fantasies.

>>284085169
You're not a woman. Go back to /lgbt/

>>284084902
>There hasn't been a single relationship-focused manga or anime in the past 15 years that even comes close to Ai Yazawa's Nana in terms of detail, complex dynamics and believable, relatable characters.
Good.

>>284084902
nice copypasta "anon"

>>284084902
>Aside from the obvious discrepancies between shoujo and shounen manga in writing style

There is no difference in writing style, they're not genres.

Shonen is aimed at boys and shojo is aimed at girls, there is no difference in how they're written.

>>284084907
Infidelity is the death of a relationship you fucking idiot. If you have this in your story then by default it stops being a romantic story and turns into cuck fetish for degenerates like you.
>In before infidelity turns the story into le hecking deep story
No it doesn't. Anyone that thinks infidelity is some deep complex idea is just an immature faggot.

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>>284084902
>There hasn't been a single relationship-focused manga or anime in the past 15 years that even comes close to Ai Yazawa's Nana in terms of detail, complex dynamics and believable, relatable characters.
>

There is a grain of truth in what you’re saying that the meta has gone stale, but your solution to the problem is very very wrong and ruins the point.
>Dude what if we made a mecha show without robot fights

>>284085289
You're missing the OP's point. By endlessly indulging in some cheap fantasy tailor made to satisfy your urge to feel wanted, you're not in fact indulging your fantasy but just roting your mind in a puddle of ready made cliches. You owe it to yourself to acknowledge that passionate love is not some clean affair, and may expand your horizons a little.

>>284084902

Yeah, I agree with OP. When it comes to desire and passion, many anons seem to want some sterile version where the cast is just hopelessly in love with the self insert and never see another. It's boring, and hardly engaging.

>>284085455
>posts cuck porn

>>284085489
That's fucking stupid. If I want to see how fucking awful women are, I would just fucking go find a real one in real life. That's not the point of fiction.

>>284085506
it's not cuckshit if it's the girl getting cucked

>>284085169
>Must it be forced upon shonen romance manga when the paying customers don't find it appealing as a work of fiction?
No, my problem isn't the fact that it's not being made. My problem is that shounen romance demographics are dumb people who only ever desire idealism.

It's all well and good to claim this still exists in "shoujo", but the reality is shoujo manga has also largely deteriorated and favor idealism over good quality stories. We no longer see manga in the style of the old school writers like Ai Yazawa, Yumi Tamura or Keiko Takemiya.

And as far as shounen goes, we don't even see works like School Rumble anymore, because the idea of the main character being in love with a girl who doesn't return his affections simply doesn't appeal to the shallow wishes of modern demographics. Everything must now be bogged down to the simplest form of idealism: all the girls love the main character, and all the male characters want to be him.

>>284085489
>By endlessly indulging in some cheap fantasy tailor made to satisfy your urge to feel wanted, you're not in fact indulging your fantasy
Wrong. Citation? You are not me. If I want to experience reality I can go outside whenever I please. Women can goon to billionaire vampires and men can shut out the world and experience a simplistic love story in moderation.

Textbook idiots: >>284085199 >>284085279 >>284085327 >>284085451 >>284085509

>>284085374
If it's copypasta, then show me where I'm pasting from. It should be trivial through a google search, or searching the 4chan archives. Every other "copypasta" can be found in one of these two ways.

>I don’t like this subgenre or what it aims to do and it should change for me
No?

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I want to see people suffer, even in fiction
That is why I oppose sugary sweet vanilla romances
Nobody is allowed to be happy in my sight

>>284085563
Cool enjoy the stories made for you

>>284085401
>there is no difference in how they're written.
It's more like you're not able to infer the very obvious differences in style. Many of these stylistic differences can be traced to the gender of the author. I'm not going to go through every example, but you are kidding yourself if you believe there is a single shounen manga that even remotely resembles a work like Kaze to ki no uta, or even a something more genre-focused like 7seeds or Terra e.

>>284085570
There aren't that many, purity-obsessed otaku run the show

>>284085506
Anon, you are exactly the kind of idiot the OP describes. Try not to get too offended, but you are unintelligent. You may cope however you like, but it is still a fact that you are a dumb person.

>>284085544
Ohh touched a nerve

>I don’t want cathartic heartboner slop I want reality TV dramaslop instead

>>284085597
Yes, OP is the kind of poster who monitors the threads he makes and feels he has to get the last word in for almost every reply, almost like he has some emotional stake in this

>>284085594
You’ve got niche tastes, it is what it is.

>>284084902
I'm curious about your opinion on Rumiko's Takahashi take on the romance genre, if you've read her works.

>>284084902
Using the word "purityfag" unironically is like using the word "hetslop" or "incel": it immediately identifies you as a maladjusted nutcase whose opinion is only valuable as a reference for idiotic thinking.
>>284085279
Based.

>>284084902
I just have to applaud how you avoided the use of the word "isekai" in your epic shitpost.

>>284085599
He is woman-brained

>>284084902
If you go back they have plenty of that in western shit like dispatch

I don’t think any of what you’re asking for enhances the goal of these works. There are some works that utilize these to great effect but they are going for something else entirely.

>>284084902
aw hell na blud so in denial with his jerking, he turned wanna be einstein wit it.

>>284085599
How're you going have catharsis without the drama anon? There's no drama in what the majority of anons want, because that's "too much like real life", which is just sad.

>>284085455
Listen, I have both watched the anime, and read the entire VN including all of the endings (but I didn't bother with the tertiary girls in Closing Chapter).
I am telling you right now, White Album 2 is not on the same level as Nana, or Paradise Kiss, or Kaze to ki no uta, or even other VNs like Cross Channel.
The major problem with White Album 2 (and most VNs in general) is that the relationship dynamics are too one-way, and the emphasis on the main character's own internalizations is way too strong and overbearing. Characters like Touma and Setsuna can never really shine because the focus is placed squarely on Haruki's thoughts and emotions 100% of the time (except for the after stories), and to be honest, he's an incredibly boring character.
Meanwhile in a manga like Nana, there is no true main character, and it's a lot more nuanced in how it shows relationships change. Instead of being confronted with a large internal essay transcribing the main character's thoughts and emotions, the same thing could be conveyed in Nana with nothing more the simple facial expression or gestural action, and at least for me, it leaves a much stronger emotional impression. This is also why I prefer the White Album 2 anime to the VN. When Haruki confronts Touma on the streets at the end of Introductory Chapter to pour out his feelings, I really don't care to read a literary transcription of everything he's thinking or feeling; the action is what matters. The anime conveys this perfectly while the VN meanders for way too long.

>>284085693
Catharsis from the denial of the everyday.

>>284084938
^ he's right you know

>>284085609
Anon, it's not my fault I hit the nail on the head exposing idiots like you for what you are.

>>284085723
I bet you like AI too. Retards always fall for scams.

>>284085557
You've misunderstood.
What I don't like is the lack of diversity among stories being produced today, which is the result of declining intelligence among modern demographics.
I'm not asking for stuff like Legend of the Galactic Heroes to start being made, but we can't even have something like School Rumble anymore because modern demographics aggressively reject anything that doesn't conform to idealistic wish-fulfillment. It simply isn't marketable or profitable to have a main character in love with a girl who doesn't return his affections.

>>284085728
Thank you for continuing to double down on your stupidity and inability to engage in any form of discussion, anon.

>hates essays
>writes essays
Ok

>>284085741
You decry apples and want them to be oranges. You’re asking them to become something they aren’t.

>>284085741
>>284085748
Why didn't you just have AI write the OP post for you?

>>284085529
Idealism is a sign of intelligence. Realism is low IQ.

>>284085544
Cuckold

I find romance more interesting when it explores the concept of love rather than just interpersonal relationships.

Bland romance/harem MCs don’t exist for the reason many people think they do. Nerds self insert as chad all the time, that’s not really the problem. The problem is there needs to be an obstacle between MC and his girls, without conflict, there is no story and it’s just sex. A race where the starting line and finish line is the same.
Before the genre crystalized, there were more Chad MCs who pursued, but that means you have to introduce obstacles like love rivals and resistant heroines, and the market didn’t like either of those. Cuck MCs, or autistic oblivious asexual MCs are a byproduct of the market preferring girls to be as likable as possible, with no NTR risk. The best of the best can be more clever about love obstacles but that doesn’t work for every setting. And then you get some outside the box thinking like 100 girlfriends where you can have a semi-chad and loving girls but the obstacle is juggling 100 of them. It’s a plot necessity thing.
What OP is asking for is too extreme of an overcorrection, turning the point (wish fulfillment) into something else (dramatic romance), but I do think more inventive conflict could enhance the genre.

>>284085618
I like her and respect what she has brought to the medium.
I am sure she would be the first to admit she is not the best writer of fiction, but at the very least she has her own voice and sense of identity. Maison Ikkoku is especially good, and multiple orders of magnitude better than 99% of the junk produced today. Even though it's a bit long and repetitive, there is a lot of detail in the relationship dynamics.
That being said, I refuse to categorize myself as one of those hipsters who act like Urusei Yatsura was some kind of masterpiece that set the standard romantic storytelling (especially in the case of the anime). Urusei Yatsura was a fun, humorous manga that read somewhat like a newspaper cartoon and it's a genuinely enjoyable read for what it is. I cringe at anyone who attempts to suggest there's a degree of substance to the relationship between Ataru and Lum, or that Lum has even a modicum of substance as a character.

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>>284084907
>(cont)

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Thoughts on Maison Ikkoku? Anyway, the majority of anons remind me the MC from Homunculus. Just endlessly masturbating to their fantasies without a thought.

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>>284085741
Half of jap fetish media has either NTR or the protag has a wish-fufillement harem of slave dolls. You thinking that you need NTR in these self-insert wish-fufillement anime is not a sign that you are contrarian. Rather, it seems OP, that anime and porn has rotted your mind to the point you see complexity in a relationship as cheating and cuckoldry. You're a cuck.

>>284085828
Filtered by the show that can do everything and the girl that won the heart of a nation

>>284085844
How pretentious

>>284085670
So explain to me why nobody has even tried to replicate the magic of School Rumble for the last 15 years.
This manga was a big hit for it's time, yet there are virtually zero derivations. It's not like the basis of the story was some one-of-a-kind unique premise; it was just a fun highschool slice of life romantic comedy.
The major problem it has that is incompatible with modern demographics is that the male main character is in love with a girl who doesn't return his affections. It's a wonderful source of humor and helps engineer all kinds of funny and surprisingly good relationship dynamics between him and other characters. However, the simple fact remains that modern audiences aggressively reject any scenario of any girl being in love with another male character.

If you look at all the anime and manga coming out today, even the stuff that's a little more edgy or off-base, the vast majority of it could be described as wish-fulfillment. This is especially the case for all the garbage that falls under the "isekai" subgenre, which for some reason is enjoying unprecedented popularity and an overwhelming stream of new supply. Even other fantasy crap like "Redo the healer" which involves the main character being raped by men could still be viewed as a revenge powerfantasy, not a real story.

>>284085844
You sounds like a teenager who try hard to appear as an adult OP.

Why not just consume western romance? Almost all of them are exactly like what you are asking for, you complain about the "lack of", well there you have your alternative.

>>284085886
Suck my dick. Prove me wrong. You're gonna tell me I'm wrong? Just look at the replies to this thread. The majority knows what they're consuming is slop but they don't care because they want to keep their lame fantasies.

>>284085905
School Rumble is a different goal, mostly humor first, and a meditation on youth. The love aspects are there for melancholic yearning and comedy mostly. It’s not trying to do the same thing.
Why is that type of story not as popular? Good ones aren’t coming out as frequently.

>>284085855
No you illiterate retard. I couldn't care less about "fetish" media or pornography. The problem is people who are just as retarded as you deriding and discarding works for daring to have a female character in love with a non-MC character. This can all be traced to a very obvious anti-NTR stigma, held by stupid people who don't even understand what NTR actually is.

If you can't read a fantastic manga like Nana because it involves themes of infidelity, then you are indeed a complete retard who only desires wish-fulfillment.

Textbook 60-IQ coping mechanism: >>284085777

>>284085919
>You’re beneath me for enjoying pleasant fiction
If you’re not otaku maybe get off /a/.

>>284085858
Sorry but you're only confirming your low intelligence here.

Why do you have such a strong desire to be cucked, OP? Though I can kind of understand some aspects of your post, or maybe it makes even less sense, given that almost any relationship drama at all these days is referred to as NTR or NTRbait.

>>284085961
I can read and appreciate Nana for what it is.
That DOES NOT mean that I think that I think your average romance/harem manga/anime would benefit in its aims for being more like Nana.

>>284085913
>You sounds like a teenager who try hard to appear as an adult OP.
Meanwhile your turn of phrase heavily indicates you are a teenager. In fact, your poor literacy and grammar suggests you're even dumber than the average 11 year old.

>>284085961
NTR is fetish media and pornography. It's a jap name for "cuckoldry".

>>284085574
Adachi Mitsuru's sports romcoms do. He conveys more meaning and pathos in one panel than most do in 50. Doesn't need an abundance of tears, petty drama, OTT scenarios or long-winded internal monologues, just simple and effective storytelling. Doesn't always have the most cathartic endings but that's an industry-wide problem.

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>>284086007
>That DOES NOT mean that I think that I think

>>284086028
>Minor grammar mistake
It’s over…

>>284085985
Unfounded personal attacks are not an argument

>purityfag
OP.. how do I tell you this..

>>284086001
He’s a plotbrain, anon. He’s not looking for emotional fulfillment via a fantastical scenario, he’s looking for conflict and character drama. Both are fine as their own thing but demanding one become the other is retarded.

>>284086008
Oh sweet summer child, if you ever come out from your basement and interact with real people you will easily find numbers of well-adjusted adult who speak worse grammar than that.
Btw trying to deflect the point with
>Muh grammar! y-you ESL!
doesn't work here.

>>284084902
go be a NTRcuck somewhere else

>>284086054
The moment you preface your post with the word "filtered", you forfeit any incentive for people to respond to your post with any form of "argument". The only reasonable thing left to do is correctly label you what you are: a retard who doesn't think.
I rightly pointed out that Urusei Yatsura was nothing more than a simple newspaper-cartoon style comedy, and you've offered nothing to support the contrary, other than throwing up a standard low-IQ template retort you learned from spending too much time on 4chan.
By all means, explain how Lum has any substance as a character. You went on to suggest she's a "girl that won the hearts of a nation" but that only strengthens my point that mainstream demographics are stupid people like you, who desire shallow wish-fulfillment.

>>284086115
The moment you preface your post with “word used made my brain turn off” is the moment you’ve lost my interest in the rest of your post.

>>284086087
Do you always cope this way when someone exposes your idiocy?
If you're going to criticize someone for "sounding like a teenager", then I think it would be best not to write your posts with grammar comparable to the standard of an 8 year old.
Even putting grammar aside, phrases like "Btw trying to deflect" is exactly the turn of phrase I would expect from a socially unadjusted teenager.

Pseud autists are the worst

>>284086140
Sorry, I just don't care what illiterate morons like yourself say, think or do.
I'm already fully aware 99% of this board is filled with retards like you who don't think, let alone have the capability to break anything down in detail. I prefaced that much in the first line of the OP.
Continue being the worthless, superficial bore that you are.

>>284086158
>h-he is writing a lot of words! he's a pseud!
Standard low-IQ cope.

“NTR” in romance sucks, the MC almost always wins in the end but the victory is less desirable or if he doesn’t win for whatever reason then you’re usually left wondering why you’ve read it in the first place.

>>284086179
"NTR" isn't even in romance, my illiterate friend.
You don't even know what NTR means, and didn't bother reading the first post of this thread.

>>284086163
Spoken like a true midwit who ‘doesn’t care’.

>>284086185
The scare quotes didn’t do it for you? In case it wasn’t obvious I’m covering the full spectrum of what people call NTR, including things that aren’t actually NTR.

>>284085844
Dogshit like everything with Rumiko's name attached to it.

They do make these. Last one that comes to mind is Bucchigiri?! which was fun enough and had a decent budget, but in my opinion the story had pacing issues and a sort of questionable muddled middle. Maybe you should look harder instead of whining? Or maybe break out your own pencil and create what you want to see instead of complaining people aren't catering exclusively to your tastes, you fucking child.

>>284086185
NTR = netorare = cuck porn

>>284086208
Indeed, you are conforming to the same ignorant, misguided definition of netorare that appears to play a big part in the continuous stream of idealistic, low-quality manga and anime being produced.

>>284086243
The colloquial definition on /a/, yes.
The same EXACT way OP does in his post.

>>284086243
You're a cuckold OP. Better accept it.

>>284086155
The reason people can tell that you're a juvenile is not because such trivial reason like grammar and such, but because you're basically just throwing a tantrum and demanding others to agree with your "superior" taste by making this thread.

>>284086234
That's a very simple way of putting it.
Of course, if you believe a girl character having sex with another male character is "ntr" regardless of context, that would make you a stupid person.

>>284086216
A curse upon thee

>>284084902
I'm curious OP, what other media do you enjoy outside anime and manga? I've always felt part of the problem is that the industry is nowadays too incestous, some outside influence would do it some good. Personally speaking, with the passing of David Lynch earlier this year, I've been binge watching his works, and even though remonce per se isn't the focus, his sensibilities lend themselves really well to it. Actually, I was thinking that Shounen no Abyss reminded me a lot of Twin Peaks.

>>284086224
Bucchigiri isn't a romance anime

>>284086259
In other words, you are illiterate, misguided and a fool, just like this moron: >>284086261
The anime/manga scene truly is hopeless if the market is saturated by this lol.

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>>284086278
>illiterate, misguided and a fool
Agreed

>>284086264
Anon, you don't have to keep digging yourself deeper after being exposed as a dumbshit lol.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You shouldn't try to claim someone "sounds like a teenager" when you can't even write such a simple sentence properly. You're an utterly stupid idiot, and deep down you know it.

>>284086286
You either didn't read the content of the OP + first post, or you completely failed to comprehend and understand any of it. That's ok, you're just one of the many low-functioning buffoons who populate /a/ (4chan in general actually).

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>>284084902
just say you're a cuck dude

110 IQ tops

>>284086290
>You're an utterly stupid idiot
I'm not the one who made this thread tho.

>>284086300
I know you’re squirming over getting caught being stupid, it’s okay.

>>284085905
It wasn't a romantic comedy, but Mob Psycho 100 had the main character interested in a girl throughout the series who had no romantic feelings toward him whatsoever.

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>>284084902
>this is the type of romance OP love

>>284084902
You say all this as if there isn't a bunch of literal NTR on /a/, the site, and the internet at large worth complaining about.

>>284086267
sure it is. the entire focal point of the main character is the get the girl. who has absolutely no interest in him whatsoever

Total puritychad victory.

>>284086337
>entire focal point
Nah

>>284086278
Hi cucky

>>284086345
that is literally the driving force of the main character. if you don't see it as a romance anime that's only because it fulfils your criteria where the mc fails to get the girl

OP shouldnt have mentioned NTR

>>284086366
OP has a superiority complex and can’t hold a conversation because anyone that disagrees with him is inferior because he’s a super genius.

>>284086366
There’s definitely a way this could have been formatted to produce a more productive conversation.

>>284086352
>mc fails to get the girl
I consider that romance but bucchigiri is just a annoying gag

>>284086385
Is OP a weird troll or is he realky the deranged cuck he is portraying himself as. I don't know what's a worse use of personal time.

>>284086417
okay. you don't like it. so what? it still fulfils your retard criteria. I don't blame you for not liking it because it had plot related issues, but at least it had a decent soundtrack and animation budget

>>284086470
>still fulfils your retard criteria
gags aren't part my criteria

>>284086481
oh so comedy is right out. you're a total fag
they do make media for your taste in the west. give General Hospital or Days of Our Lives a go if you want tawdry melodrama

>>284086505
>comedy is right out
No

Lol OP was outed himself as a newfag who just finished his curated catalogue of old animu & mango.

>OP left

Shame. I thought this thread was gonna be fun.

>>284086588
It's his bed time

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>>284086224
>They do make these. Last one that comes to mind is Bucchigiri
Bucchigiri isn't romance it's a failed fujobait that ruined itself by attempting to omnipander with a straight protag. How can you be so blind?

There is nothing with being a cuck.

>>284086613
He should break his bedtime curfew and shit post with us some more.

>>284086623
Each episode got gayer and gayer.

>>284086623
How can it omnipander if it lacks yuri?

>>284086418
>>284086385
It's not my problem you're an illiterate moron, anon.

>>284086623
>Bucchigiri isn't romance
it was a huge part of the plot and a big reason why the show failed because it ultimately led absolutely fucking nowhere. but OP is blathering on about NTR and not NTR and how anime in current day doesn't stray from established safe norms etc etc. so I countered with buccigiri because it did exactly that but was a mess precisely because it did so

>>284086407
No there isn't.
/a/ is full of retards like yourself who are programmed to react a certain way to words or opinions that go against the grain.
It doesn't matter whether or not "ntr" is mentioned or not, even when it was properly explained in no uncertain terms. At the end of the day, retards will be retards, and completely incapable of breaking anything down.

>>284084902
The stigma doesn't stop them from making NTR, nor "not-NTR" clearly.

>>284086556
Based on what? I'm curious as to how stupid people like yourself infer conclusions that don't make any sense. Idiot brains are fascinating to me.

>>284086722
You didn't need to mention ntr

I wonder what ACK aka Sean aka Melori aka anonscans aka besuretoactuallyread thinks about this thread

>>284086710
The fact that the main motivation of the protag is to fuck the main girl does not mean the genre of the show is romance though.

>>284086710
huge part of the plot was about gay delinquent gang wars

>>284086820
>>284086825
shows can straddle more than 1 genre

bucchiguri is actually a gay romance of two rivals

>>284086879
I guess naruto is also part of romance+homonen genre

>>284086752
Nope, there's a valid point to be made here that can be traced to NTR. It's not my problem a stupid person like you can't read or comprehend this.
The OP only scratched the surface too. That Kaguya manga generated a huge amount of rage because the two main characters had sexual intercourse. This isn't even a case of another dude being involved; dumbfucks like you were branding it NTR because the main girl had sex.
Don't forget female VAs being harassed either. Aya Hirano got death threats for having a boyfriend because apparently that's "NTR" in the eyes of greasy haired autistic freakos who can't separate reality form fiction.

>>284086905
I mean it isn't. If that was the plot it would be more coherent but the mc has no interest in that. probably if it was a total overt fagfest it never would've aired

>>284086879
Sure, of course it can mister strawman.
But if Bucchigiri is mainly about the het romance or has any then I'm the fucking king of anglos

>>284085509
>it's not ok if women "cheat" in fiction
>it's ok if a man strings along half a dozen females

>>284086948
Gundam079 and Naruto aired just fine though

>>284085713
You didn’t need to write an essay for that. You could’ve just admitted you don’t like the vn format and that’s fine. Also, it’s hard to take posts like this seriously when someone says they prefer the WA2 anime over the vn, the bias is obvious.

>>284086802
He found a crusader comrade like OP.

>>284086948
>but the mc has no interest
Sexuality doesn't matter in romance

>>284086945
>Aya Hirano got death threats for having a boyfriend
She didn't got death threats for having a boyfriend, she was shamed for having a gangbang with a band while selling herself as an idol.

>>284086982
Here's the deal, my dear retard:
1. I have absolutely zero issues with the VN format. In fact, I really enjoy them. I think Muv-Luv Alternative and Umineckbeard are far better quality than any serialized manga or anime.
I don't think visual novels are the best medium for creating a believable and interesting romance dynamic, but that doesn't mean I have a prejudice against the medium. That is a typical simpleton conclusion drawn by those low on the reading literacy scale.

2.
>Also, it’s hard to take posts like this seriously when someone says they prefer the WA2 anime over the vn, the bias is obvious.
This only further cements your status as a complete and utter idiot.

I explained my reasoning for preferring the anime in very clear, concise terms. Rather than addressing anything specific, you are responding with an asinine blanket statement with a complete absence of any thought.
I'm honestly convinced you didn't even get White Album 2 yourself. You're just a dime a dozen shallow idiot, and whatever appreciation you might have for this VN extends solely to superficial qualities like waifu appeal.

In conclusion, you're a boring, worthless peanut.

>>284086985
It's quite clear you have low intelligence when you think my posts here resemble ACK's even a tiny bit.
Retards like yourself actually seem to believe longer-than-average post equates to mental illness.

It's interesting to me seeing just how much dumber /a/ has become in the last 15 years.

>>284087042
Anon you cannot say that, think of the sensitive straight males who watch harem romcoms in the thread

>>284086802
Crackships is basically NTR

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159 KB PNG

>>284087092
You sure do sound like him.

>>284087059
No surprise everyone here is clowning on you. It’s gotta be rough living as such a pseud. You’re basically the textbook example of how a plebbit mod’s brain would function.
>muh reasoning
>starts with x,y,z is better w and "it just is"
>argument is complete utter nonsense that couldn't be further from the truth
You're not even worth my time. Stick to your containment thread and waste your life here without anyone acknowledging your dogshit.

>>284087164
You concluded that because you're a shallow, unintelligent retard.

>>284087042
this strengthens my argument that buccigiri is a bonefide romance, granted it's structured as a tragedy. the mc wants the girl, doesn't get her. his homo friend wants him, doesn't get him. evil genie wants the other one, doesn't get him

>>284087197
>No surprise everyone here is clowning on you.
Nope, just 60-IQ idiots like yourself, all of which I have comfortably shut down.
This is precisely why you need to continually cope that I'm a "pseud". You're too stupid to address anything in detail so you fall back to the same old buzzwords you learned here on 4chan like the tiny-brained retard you are :)

>>284087059
>guys look I like these two mainstream VNs
>do I fit in yet?
My fucking sides.

>>284087202
>structured as a tragedy
lol

>>284087236
Bizarre to me how you appear completely unaware of your low intelligence.

>>284087253
Name 10 VNs

>the author MUUUST ADD FUCKING B PLOTS NOWW!!!! he fucking MUST ADD SIDE PLOTS!!!! You have to it BECAUSE I SAID SOOO!!!
>here’s my multi post meltdown you’re not allowed to make fun of me with it

>>284087248
how isn't it a tragedy? I'm talking classical greek comedy/tragedy distinction. the girl also wants her brother but he dies - or am I misremembering that? does he just get the shit beat out of him? I know the guy's brother dies which makes him go berserk but I don't recall if the girl's brother died as well

>>284087260
Why? What does that have to do with this thread or the post you were quoting?
I said Muv Luv and Umineckbeard are two great VNs, and somehow your small brain inferred that as the key purpose of my post, and that I must be trying to fit in for making such a statement.
This is some truly bizarre mental gymnastics. It's hard to follow along with people who are as flagrantly stupid as yourself.

>>284087300
name ten visual novels

>>284084902
>Just to make this extra clear for the misinformed: netorare is a specific fetish that means getting horny when your loved one is stolen. If you have two characters, boy a and girl a, who are in a relationship, then girl a starts having sex with another dude, which causes boy a to get aroused, that is what NTR is.

This is simply not what NTR means and is something you made up entirely yourself or picked up from some non-japanese source. You entire argument falls flat on this misconception alone. Let me actually give you the definition of netorare
>ねとられ
>自分の配偶者や恋人、友達以上恋人未満などの人物が第三者と性的関係を持つことなどを示した言葉。
This is not the same as "cuck" i.e getting sexually aroused from infidelity of your partner. One quick look at the NTR tag on pixiv could have told you that there is no "cuck" part necessary to be classified as NTR.

>>284087369
If you're going to larp as being in a position of authority, provide some data to back up your assertions than post some vague japanese greentext.
As far as I'm concerned, this is netorare: https://vndb.org/g513
Until you present evidence of the person who officially conceived the word saying it means something different, then I'm not interested.

>vndb

>>284087417
>https://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%AF%9D%E5%8F%96%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C
Read for yourself before claiming vndb as a source of authority despite literally being the western variant of erogamescape. This tells me enough about your own knowledge of this topic. My source even explains that "arousal" is not necessary.

Let me give you another dictionary source.
>https://www.weblio.jp/content/NTR
>自分のパートナーが他の人物によって性的に寝取られるシチュエーションを描いた作品を指す

>Until you present evidence of the person who officially conceived the word saying it means something different, then I'm not interested.
This is unreasonable and shows you are arguing in bad faith. Can you present evidence of the person who officially conceived the word "cuck"? Such a demand cannot be satisfied.

>>284087417
>https://vndb.org/g513
I also think you might just be illiterate. Nowhere on your own "definition" of NTR does it state that the person being cheated on needs to enjoy it? Despite you claiming it to be a necessary condition.

Gee I wonder which pseud that keep making "symbolism" thread?

>>284087549
When did I use the word "enjoy" you laughable dumbfuck?

>>284087524
No, all this proves is some sources interpret the word differently. Just because your website has a different definition from another website does not mean one meaning is absolute.

Also, this is all tertiary to my main point. It doesn't actually matter what the absolute true meaning of "netorare" is, it still doesn't change the fact that modern demographics aggressively reject any stories involving girls becoming interested in non-main characters, which is driving a dire lack of vision in modern anime and manga.

>>284087588
>if i keep saying pseud, it will help me cope with my low intelligence

>>284087735
>Just to make this extra clear for the misinformed: netorare is a specific fetish that means getting horny when your loved one is stolen.
this is total horseshit and is not required per the very source that you cited. kill yourself

>>284087776
There is a clear difference between the word "horny" and "enjoyed" you laughably stupid idiot.
The source I quoted makes it abundantly clear you illiterate dunce:
>fetishization of jealousy and other negative feelings commonly associated with it.
Do you know what fetishization means, retard? Does this word actually need to be explained to you? Are you too braindead to just find a dictionary and look it up yourself?

>>284084907
>Kakyuusei 2. The writers made the ill-fated decision of having the main female character in a pre-existing relationship, and it drove the autistic fans insane.
There is a lot of nuance with Tamaki other than her just having a bf right at the start. But Hiruta was also retarded NTR fetishist though(you can see that what he really liked making is dark shit with rape and NTR and romance was boring to him) , who didn't understand that dou/kakyu series audience were vanilla romance fags and 7 years since ToHeart passed. Maybe he even intentionally sabotaged Kakyuusei 2 so he won't write ren'ai anymore ever. After all Elf stayed afloat for 10 years after this, Tamaki scandal didn't kill them.

>>284087735
>which causes boy a to get aroused, that is what NTR is.
From your own OP:
>When did I use the word "enjoy" you laughable dumbfuck?

>modern demographics aggressively reject
Could you provide any sources to back up this claim? One could maybe claim this to be true for an incredibly specific genre, namely shounen-romance ánd even then this is still not unquestionably true. So please provide any evidence. Apart from the fact Nana was not written in 2025.

Lastly, explain why this particularly is "driving a dire lack of vision" in the industry? As you have already mentioned yourself, your wishes for certain story tropes have already been fulfilled in the past, what makes them "fresh" now compared to the things we have today?

>>284087803
it means shadenfreude on the part of the audience, you retard clown

>>284087824
My god, your brain is actually broken. First you correlate "horny" with "enjoyment", and upon being called out for being blatantly wrong, you shift to correlating "aroused" with "enjoyment".
Completely hopeless! Your brain is broken!

>>284087826
>illiterate down-syndrome retard
>too stupid to grasp the context of a conversation
You're hopeless lol

>>284087857
you're a fucking moron. ntr does not mean the person being cheated on enjoys it or is made horny by the act. your definition that you brought up - you brought it up, you fucking idiot
>>284087417
>https://vndb.org/g513
says nothing like that. you fucking retard. you fucking dumbshit clown. kill yourself you cuck faggot

>>284087846
>Deflecting since he can't refute any point nor provide any source.

>>284087880
>n-nooo! you're wrong you fucking asshole! ntr doesn't mean that! it means this because my fucking link saoid so you FUCKING MORON!

>says nothing like that. you fucking retard. you fucking dumbshit clown. kill yourself you cuck faggot
Nothing like a good chimpout from a highly autistic, illiterate baboon who just self-owned and doubled down.

>>284087902
your link. lying fucker.

>>284084902
>>284084907
I agree with you 100% anon, but I do not believe anime and manga are the right media if you are looking for nuance and meaning. Even Nana, School Rumble and the other title you mentioned were not considered the "norm" in their times - although you are again very right when you say the situation has become significantly worse since then.
In my opinion, the problem is that the format of anime invites simplification: the simplified styles, exaggerated color, the focus on readability and especially the 23 minute format all play against the expression of nuance and complexity, which naturally take more time to unfold. Plus the whole production process, where you have people from outside intruding over stories to pander to this or that demographic also doesn't help.
Much like movies, anime and manga have a great potential for expression as artforms, and have sometimes been used to produce not only very valid and well made stories, but real masterpieces. However, these are media that were born and that prospered under certain material conditions - especially those of global markets which allow for fast production and distribution and focus on profit. We got to know manga because of this, but on the other hand the media is also inevitably cursed by the fact that it exists within certain economic dynamics which makes it so that its focus will always be on pleasing the fanbase, and that media will become more and more inbred as they use themselves as a basis for invention instead of the observation of life.
If you want properly developed stories, I suggest moving into literature. While also undergoing similar problems, the advantage of being an old media makes it so that you have enough good books (with deep, complex, nuanced characters) to read until the end of your life.

>>284087882
Doesn't work like that squirt.
First you tried to insinuate I was a retard who didn't understand the definition of my own link. Then I explained to you very clearly how you were the one who badly misinterpreted and misunderstood it, and that you cannot correlate "enjoyment" with "fetishization". Upon being confronted with this, you attempted to shift the goalposts and suggest "aroused" correlates with "enjoyment".

I would've responded to the rest of your post if you didn't immediately preface it with an inability to comprehend the meanings of important words and sentences. Why should I bother responding to this >>284087824 when you actually believe "being aroused" means the same as "enjoying", and insult others for suggesting otherwise? Continue being wrong at your leisure.

>>284084902
Didn't read, neck yourself you failed pathetic human garbage.

OP shouldn't have mentioned romance

>Account based in Israel

>>284087921
Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed response. I appreciate it.
I fully get what you're saying. Alas, I felt inclined to have a rant. I kind of yearn for the old days where we had a greater diversity of stories to choose from. I fully understand that there are more appropriate mediums that afford a greater deal of complexity in storytelling, but that won't diminish my yearning for another manga that replicates the magic of GTO or School Rumble. I find myself going back to all my old favourites over and over again to the point I have memorised most of the dialogue line-by-line.

>>284087846
Not only are you now reducing this to a semantics argument which is incredibly juvenile and pointless, To elaborate my wording, I would describe "horny" as an enjoyable emotion hence I used the word "enjoy". You however, have made a provable false claim about "horny" being contained in the definition of NTR, which as demonstrated by multiple of my sources is unfounded. Let us leave this semantics discussion aside, since you do not seem eager to concede.

I will ask you once more. Substantiate your the two claims you make.
1) An actual decline of your so called "mislabelled" NTR
2) Reasoning as to why this has led to a decline in drive and why the story tropes you advocate for are themselves "original" despite historically being omnipresent.

>>284087926
You seem to be conflating a different anon with me. However, you still do not respond with subsistence to his scrutiny, despite his insults.

>>284087975
Fetishization and horny can be correlated together.
Horny and enjoyment cannot.
The link I provided (which you attempted to use against me) literally says:
>the fetishization of jealousy and other negative feelings commonly associated with it.
Fetishization, aka something that makes one horny, of jealousy and NEGATIVE EMOTIONS.
You were the one who put "enjoyable" in my mouth like the strawmanning tard you are. After I told you I never used the word enjoyment, you attempted to correlate enjoyment with "horny" and then "arousal", which was blatantly incorrect.

You can screech semantics all you want, you were wrong, and you're continuing to dig yourself deeper and deeper into a pit of semantics.
I'm not going to respond to anything else you say until you apologize for trying to label me a retard for your own inability to understand the phrase "the fetishization of jealousy and other negative feelings commonly associated with it.", and how it's completely appropriate to use the words "horny" or "aroused" to contextualize a fetish, regardless of whether it's "enjoyable".

>>284087962
I pity the narrow-minded person who can't find enjoyment in his life.
There's more to life than NTR anon.

>>284088024
It's can't be nearly as bad as being mentally slow like you are bro.

>>284088021
lol, what a retard.

>>284088056
You needn't continually double down on your stupidity, anon.

>>284088021
Let me make one thing clear. You claim that the person being cheated on becomes horny. The links I provide and your own link both do not state this. It does indeed say
>the fetishization of jealousy and other negative feelings commonly associated with it.
This does not mean what you are insinuating. This statement is about a third person perspective, whose lover is not stolen, who takes in enjoyment in the fact that the character's lover is stolen. The character feels jealousy and the "viewer" enjoys and fetishizes this, which is not even remotely the same to the claims you make.

>>284088075
cuck faggot retard

>>284084902
Blame the ntrfags for making the stigma

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>>284088080
>The links I provide and your own link both do not state this
Which are no more valid than the link I provided.

>This statement is about a third person perspective, whose lover is not stolen, who takes in enjoyment in the fact that the character's lover is stolen. The character feels jealousy and the "viewer" enjoys and fetishizes this
No, what you're thinking of is netori.

https://vndb.org/g514

This nonsense about a "third person perspective" is your own conjecture.

Netorare is fetishizing feelings of jealously, hopelessness and misery.
Netori is fetishizing the idea of stealing someone elses loved one, potentially inducing a sense of misery and jealousy for the person who's loved one is being stolen.

Pic related is standard, textbook netorare, the objectively accurate example of what the vndb link describes. There is no phantom "third person". It's a porn manga about a guy who gets horny over his girlfriend having sex with another man behind his back.

>>284088039
>>284088075
see >>284085609

i can just imagine what this freak looks like irl LMAO
inb4 you are le low iq

>>284088166
It's simply evident that you're a total moron who is coping with repeated attempts to put me down, which is driven by your own inability to engage in a simple discussion. Deep down you know you're a moron, but you can't admit it to yourself and you're clearly insecure about it, so you try to shit on others to feel better about yourself.
The problem is, I can very easily see you for what you are. No amount of denial will change the fact that you're an unintelligent, worthless little loser who probably spends every hour of his life on 4chan. This is precisely why you're too dumb to hold any kind of real discussion.

uh oh cuck melty

>>284084902
Otaku definitely devolved from the kind-hearted shinshi type to thin-skinned netouyo some time in the early 2000s in Japan, and the mindset was imported into the west a couple of years later through 4chan. What really gets me is the sheer cognitive dissonance where purityfags will be fine with a girl openly thirsting for other guys in front of the MC because her being a bitch to the MC somehow makes her “pure”, while girls who are kind and devoted to the MC are seen as walking red flags and derided as “sluts”. It’s as if these newfags (yes, if you got into anime through Haruhi or later, you are an eternal newfag) twisted their moral framework and basic sense of reasoning into convoluted knots to cope with poorly written harems rather than standing firm and criticizing shit for being shit.

Is this the used goods acceptance/cope thread? Are you insecure about your 3dpd roastoid gf?

>>284084902
If you want of your cuck fetish in the stories just write your own cuck story, how about that? Everyone interested can read it and everyone uninterested might not.

>>284088150
Is this self-insert syndrome on full display? Do you know what a 4th wall is? You claim that manga cater too much to the audience yet you seem to confuse the audience and the characters themselves.

>Pic related is standard, textbook netorare, the objectively accurate example of what the vndb link describes. There is no phantom "third person". It's a porn manga about a guy who gets horny over his girlfriend having sex with another man behind his back.
What you're describing is not netorare. It is closer to netorase except maybe for your "behind his back" part. Here is your favourite authority on the topic
>https://vndb.org/g1663
If one interprets "inaction" a little bit liberally it is exactly what you describe.

>>284085609
What kind of emotional stake is that?
He got NTR-ed and has to cope by pretending that the intelligent and manly thing to do is to take it in the ass like a bonafide cuck?

>>284084902
>ome of the greatest romance manga (and stories across all mediums) involve themes that are uncomfortable and challenging for a lot of people
OP is chomping at the bit to write a 600 word post defending Lolita and saying that Nabokov actually wasn't a pedo

>>284088290
>self-insert syndrome
I recommend not spending your entire life on 4chan, anon. All the buzzwords you learn here won't serve you very well in the real world.

>>284084902
I didn't read past the first lines, because I already know what you want to say and how stupid it all is. So I will just highlight your faggotry and close the thread.
Feel free to whine and stomp your feet in the reply.

>>284088499
There is no need to pretend you're a newcomer to this thread, my dear idiot. This is just another one of your coping mechanisms because I nailed you before. Autistic retards like you do not know how to change your writing prose, or even mix up your vocabulary.

>>284084902
>>284084907
I understand your grievance OP, but first you must understand that cuckoldry has entered the zeitgeist. Everyone nowadays is prone to viewing romantic rivalry and infidelity through the lens of cuckoldry.
>Kakyuusei 2. The writers made the ill-fated decision of having the main female character in a pre-existing relationship, and it drove the autistic fans insane.
Youre wrong about this one, though. What you dont understand about NTR is that it also derives arousal from feelings of insecurity and inferiority, especially in the sense of being a man. The scenario in Kakyuusei 2, iirc, is about the cover girl being in a relationship with a handsome and rich medical student who is by every conventional measure of masculinity superior and more successful than MC, and the heroine getting with MC is clearly depicted as MC being the "second choice" after the rich handsome medical student dumps her for being too close with another man for his comfort (notice how easily he dumps her which implies he has plenty other options). The entire scenario is meant to draw on the players insecurities as a man and the optional scene where the MC peeps at them having a saucy moment in the park just confirms that this shit is a BSS fetish thing first and foremost fetishizing the idea of your childhood friend being taken by a superior man and deriving pleasure from that figurative humiliation like conventional NTR. The well of NTR is much deeper than you think and shit like the Kanokari moment are ridiculed for the same reason.
The proper mmf love triangle where two equal men duel for the affection of a girl is more common to shoujo because modern shounen manga have a tendency to portray the MC and rival in inferior and superior relations that prey on male insecurity of being a failure of a man and having your girlfriend taken by a superior male, and deriving pleasure from that humiliation, which is quite degenerate.

>>284085199
/thread

>>284084902
>As time goes on, modern anime demographics have started craving shallow, indulgent wish-fulfillment more than high quality writing.
True, see bokuyaba

>Filipino babble

>>284084902
Dude, if the deepness of your story comes from a love triangle, I don't think you have ever seen a deep character in your life.
A deep character is about challenging philosophies and worldviews, questioning moralities and then trying to present the author's view, not if girl A is being fucked by boy B.
If the focus of your story is romance, it's already shitty soap opera tier, which has a lot of this cheating and infidelity shit you like so much.

>>284085855
>jap fetish media
You mean korean. Almost every single big NTR artist is korean or chinese.

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>>284084902
>There hasn't been a single relationship-focused manga or anime in the past 15 years that
Read VNs or fuck off

>>284088290
>self-insert syndrome
It's called empathy. A feeling that most functional human beings have.
If a person reads a lot of stories about suffering, unless he is some kind of sociopath that feels no empathy, that person should feel a connection to the characters that suffers in the story.
You could make this argument for an horror game. "You are not the guy in the game, so why would you be scared that a monster jumped in front of him?", because in that moment, we feel such a strong sense of empathy due to gameplay mechanics, that when that character is attacked, we feel as if it is happening to the player themselves.

>>284088664
I will concede and admit that I wasn't 100% familiar with exactly what goes on in Kakyuusei 2. I used it as an example despite not understanding the full context of the story, which is hypocritical of me considering I've been critical of others here for drawing conclusions without bothering to develop a sufficient understanding of what they're talking about.
I played Doukyuusei and really liked it, and figured Kakyuusei 2 was more or less the same kind of thing, only it dared to have a heroine in a relationship with another man. I thought that was the sole reason for it's bad reputation but clearly I should've educated myself.

That being said, it's not like my guesswork was completely unfounded. I know there are people who brand Doukyuusei "NTR trash" under the pretext of having heroines that aren't virgins or are in an existing relationship. As a matter of fact, just mentioning Doukyuusei on the cesspool that is /vn/ will yield exactly those reactions. These kinds of shallow dispositions saturate the modern market so heavily, even in japan, that I feel like it's driving the endless stream of worthless, uninspiring junk.

I've rambled on too much in this post.

>>284089359
I do read VNs. I also pity anyone dumb enough to think a VN can engineer a romantic dynamic to anywhere near the same level as a high quality manga.
Just keep believing the endless internal monologue of the main character constitutes quality writing.

>>284089415
>It's called empathy
no it's not retard empathy is a completely different thing from thinking you are literally the mc and anything bad happening to them is a personal slight

>>284089724
>Empathy is generally described as the ability to perceive another person's perspective, to understand, feel, and possibly share and respond to their experience.
You are literally putting yourself in their shoes. If they are cucked, it's feeling as if you were cucked yourself.
If something bad happens to a character, and you don't personally feel anything at all, that is the lack of empathy. Usually a form of sociopathy or psychopathy.
This is why the other anon called you out on this "self-insert syndrome", because it's not something that exists. You are simply talking about people with high levels of empathy, but it's not like most people doesn't have empathy at some level.
If you see a scene of a person being stabbed on the stomach, and you place your hand on your own stomach, it can be a reaction caused by empathy. It's as if you were personally being stabbed, even though on a metacognitive thinking, you know you haven't.

>>284089576
I didnt play Kakyuusei 2 either, thats just what I read on the various rundowns people keep posting about the games infamy. It certainly would have been a different story if the plot was about MC trying to prove himself as the better one for the girl and actually competing with the rival instead of picking up the pieces. Again, your grievances arent unfounded, it just seems that when men write love triangles their insecurities start bubbling to the surface and they can only imagine having their girlfriend stolen by someone better instead of being someone that fights for the girls affection on equal ground like a female writer likes to imagine two guys fighting over her, so there is a tendency for shounen romance to veer into that BSS/NTR territory.
But yes, non-virgin heroine doesnt equate to ntr either, thats just some puritans being neurotic because it naturally introduces the anxiety that you arent the best guy she had and that she is settling for you, it destroys the fantasy of being a girls number one unless youre confident enough to imagine yourself being the best guy she ever met, which many cant. When in comes to male audiences, thats the kind of insecurity that immediately bubbles up which you cant shake without getting accustomed to shoujo romance sensibilities.

>>284084902
>read comments on sites like Sad Panda and nhentai over the years
>check DLSite and Fanza surveys
>NTRfags more willing to be paypigs and fund shit
>Vanillafags more likely to pirate
On one hand, that explains the surge of the former. On the otherhand, vanillafags stay winning because paying for porn is a big cuck move.

>>284090146
by that logic ntr fags win harder because they get to realize their fantasy of being figuratively cucked (out of their money)

>>284084902
>UWAAAA WHY WON'T PEOPLE LIKE THAT I WANT OTHER MEN FUCK MAI WAIFU
Cope

>>284090209
Also true.

>>284090250
Don't worry anon I already know you're an idiot.

>>284086722
You are the retard that’s preprogrammed to react in a way that is not conducive to conversation, actually. Jimmy Neutron complex.

>>284090581
That's just you coping because you're too stupid to engage in any kind of discussion.

>>284090642
Thank you for the latest example. Like a wind up toy.

>>284090652
You can keep telling yourself that, but deep down you know you're a complete moron.
Dime a dozen autists like you are all the same, and you never learn. You keep picking fights that are above your weight class :)

>>284090677
Midwit Madlibs are all you can muster. Why would anyone be upset at somebody so ridiculous?

>>284085544
If you think nana is one of the greatest romance stories in the medium, your opinion is not even worth listening to.

>>284084902
True. These days a romance needs the girl to be pure, no man interactions and 3 layers of himen to be a love interest.

>>284090798
Based Japan

>>284090796
>non argument from a complete and utter idiot

>>284090796
Gottem lmao

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>>284084902
why are ntrkeks like this
you don't understand the first thing about what makes purityfags tick
you don't understand women or men
and you don't understand what makes a great story
>b-buh spice muh spice!
fags like you can't comprehend that when people say "not that spice" they don't in fact mean "no flavor"
if your "good story" absolutely must revolve around women being shallower than your average whore, incapable of attachments, and carrying the emotional maturity of their 3-year old selves, then pal you are either yet another ntrfag injecting your degenerate fetishes into everything or an actual, factual retard that hasn't the first clue what goes on in the hearts of others.

>>284090835
>illiterate moron ramblings

>>284084971
>>284084907
>>284084902
kill yourself, cuck

>>284090846
post hand

>>284089208
Killing cheating whore partners is legal in the philippines by the way

>>284090677
Why are you here, wanschizo?

>>284090835
Yep.

>>284090808
Indeed, it isn't an argument; it's more of an eye roll. Far more than what a bum like you with too much free time deserves.

>>284091047
That's one way to cope with your low intelligence.
The simple reality is you're a complete moron, and you know it. Any work with a modicum of complexity is like garlic to a vampire for vapid idiots like you.

>>284091060
>My choice in oriental cartoons makes me smart.
You people are all so tiresome.

>>284090677
>>284091060
You realize that your writing style is super easy to identify right

>>284091151
Oh I'm not trying to make any claims about my own intelligence, my idiot friend. I am simply correctly labeling you a moron.
Downie morons like you follow a pattern of "he likes x? his opinion is not worth listening to".
Again, you're a dime a dozen imbecile. Zero intelligence :)

>>284084902

People who cheat deserve a life of regret and wasted time being alone in the end with five children who fucking hate their parents guts. The crushing sobering thought that they wasted so much time on indulging lust with little to show for it ultimately but so garnered much hate and disgust for their actions is the price tag for a life of infidelity. Instead of building something beautiful and special that lasts, the least anyone could do is break up first before beginning another relationship.

Also people who cheat end up looking forward to middle age alone whilst all of their friends and family are in relationships and marriages that have gone on for decades happily with children of their own.

Don't destroy what precious little you have already, build and create something new with that special someone and hold onto it for dear life. It is absolutely worth it.

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>>284091238
>>People who cheat deserve a life of regret and wasted time being alone in the end with five children who fucking hate their parents guts. The crushing sobering thought that they wasted so much time on indulging lust with little to show for it ultimately but so garnered much hate and disgust for their actions is the price tag for a life of infidelity. Instead of building something beautiful and special that lasts, the least anyone could do is break up first before beginning another relationship.

>Also people who cheat end up looking forward to middle age alone whilst all of their friends and family are in relationships and marriages that have gone on for decades happily with children of their own.

>Don't destroy what precious little you have already, build and create something new with that special someone and hold onto it for dear life. It is absolutely worth it.

>>284084902
>mfw a romcom can't have something as simple as a love triangle without apes screeching NTR

>>284084902
NTRfags get the rope

>>284084902
While I agree that a lot of shonen romance is just mindnumbing drivel, the bottom line is that people don't want to endure women's bullshit in fiction too when it's already at max obnoxiousness in real life.

>>284091306
>too stupid to read
>too stupid to comprehend anything

>>284091151
I'm pretty sure it's a chatbot you're replying to

>>284091387
And he's bumping his one thread as well kek

>>284091387
>calling me an idiot? only a chatbot could ever think i'm stupid!

>>284091421
Who are you quoting?
>>284091406
If it's automated can you really say he's doing it?

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>>284084902
>>284084907
>>284091337

>>284091151
Not him, but you said in your original post:
>If you think nana is one of the greatest romance stories in the medium, your opinion is not even worth listening to.
What makes you think you're entitled to anything more than being called a retard? That anon is right, you're retarded.

>>284085961
>anti-NTR stigma
you're being too obvious

Man, this thread is hard to read.
Wish we still had an IP count so it can be checked 1 same-fag isn't successfully baiting OP constantly.

I geniuinely agree with some of OP's points, but I think his definition of NTR is too narrow. Due to constant NTR baiting around the 2000s-2010s(the scenario where the MC thinks their love interest is being cucked/already taken but it was alllll just a silly misunderstanding teehee all resolved in 2-3 chapters and it was never true for even a second), people developed a push-back to that kind of trope being used. Now it's kind of an instinctual reaction for some people.

I personally believe that some romance stories have to challenge the idea that finding love will make you perfectly happy.
Remember during Oregairu there was a whole fanbase who was actively cheering for Hachiman to end up alone? I still don't agree with them, the story makes it clear that Hachiman's own solitiude hurts him, but I get what they were trying to angle for. They wanted Hachiman to end up alone, though I'm unsure if they wanted him to be happy.
It's kind of anithetical to the genre, but by introducing the idea that the characters can be alone and be completely fine, it creates a much stronger choice in choosing romance despite not having a need to.

>>284091535
no you're just an illiterate moron :)

>>284091551
Again wanschizo, why are you here sperging about NTR?

>>284091545
The definition of NTR is tertiary to the main point in regards to the standard of content being produced.
As a matter of fact, the presence of the term NTR in the opening posts was precisely to trigger low-IQ autists. /a/ will always have a large collection of mentally unhinged autismos who will screech loudly at the mere mention of "NTR" regardless of the context it's used in. It can be a good source of amusement.

>>284084902
>>284084907
Terrific effortpost and also you're 100% correct

>>284091598
samefag

>>284091589
If you really wanted a discussion, don't bait retards then proceed to argue with them. You'll fill the thread with the garbage i.e this thread.

>>284091614
My first post in the thread. Keep seething troonie

>>284091682
Here's the thing: without a bit of bait, the thread likely dies on 0 replies. Been there done that; most people on this board do not have the attention span to read more than a couple of sentences unless it involves "spoilers" for a shounen manga.

By including the word "NTR" and tying it to the main point I'm trying to make (and it's a valid correlation), it is guaranteed to attract low-IQ nutjobs who immediately react with hostility just with the mere mention of NTR.

But at the end of the day, between all the shitposting and back-and-forth namecalling (of which I've largely been involved in), there have at least been a handful of good quality, thoughtful posts by people who actually read the OP. This would not have happened without tipping some blood into the ocean.

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>>284084902
My issue with those stories is that
1) They are written like absolute retarded dogshit, like pic related. They are just trash. There's no compelling plot where, dunno, maybe the woman would rather stay with a man with a stable income, job and shit rather than follow her real love interest but then ends up realizing what matters in life is love and the MC wins her over. No. There's just shit faggot writing that just makes the woman look like an absolute retarded whore for no reason. And if the reason is "women are retarded whores" then I don't want to read about the story of a man chasing a retarded whore;
2) Most of those cliches are used, over used, one million times. It's so boring. You also see them in non-romantic focused anime/manga stories too (like when the heroine gets kidnapped by the villain, like a very basic example: Orihime in Bleach), they got done so many times, they got boring. So readers would rather just do some harem focused story is whatever
I'll add, I fucking hate modern harem shit too (I have no idea how shit like Rental Girlfriend is popular), they just don't get it, but it's not because there's no cuck shit.
Toradora is a good example of a romantic focused story. It has comedy, it portrays youth love decently well, Taiga doesn't decide to go fuck Kitamura on a whim just because Ryuji keeps chasing on Minori like a retarded whore.

>>284084907
>Infidelity/Cheating - A character cheating on another character is not NTR
>Fetishizing stealing someone's loved one - This is known as netori. The dynamics here are completely different to "NTR"
I think you're doing an "ephebophilia isn't the same as pedophila" thing here.

>>284091987
If it's a plot element that's not meant to be sexually titillating then it isn't NTR

Fucking purityfags just don't get it. It's HIS TURN with her. Just like it will be my turn after Chad is through. If you can't accept this you are a mind broken purityfag!!!

>>284091905
I'll say it again: the OP post is not making a case for more "cuckshit" in anime and manga. It is simply highlighting how the negative stigma surrounding "NTR" contributes to the endless stream of sterile, uninteresting romance and wish-fulfillment being produced today.

I've mentioned this example a lot, but something like School Rumble won't get made today because modern day otaku demographics get the ick from seeing a male main character in love with a girl who doesn't return his affections.

>>284091896
why is it always the pseuds who defend this fetish so rabidly?

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>>284092020
The reason why it has a negative stigma is exactly for the reasons I mentioned: the girls showing infidelity are always written like shit and it just genuinely feel like the authors just added NTR-shit to "spice things up" rather than being actual character growth, progression or whatever you want to call it. So eventually readers got fed up with it.

>>284092033
You have to have some amount of smarts to be this retarded.

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>>284084902
Considering the state of /a/ in the current year, I don't think there are many anon that actually read manga.

>>284092125
Still missing the point.
A female character simply not returning the affections of a main male character, or being in love with a different male character, is not "NTR", or netorare, or cuckshit, or whatever you want to call it.
Despite this, large swathes of the modern market will brand such a thing as NTR, and immediately discard the work as "cuckshit". Something like School Rumble would never get written today because Tenma showing affection towards Karasuma = cuckshit in the minds of the increasingly large, vapid audience.
If 90%+ of anime is driven by wish-fulfillment, you get a boring landscape of content, and evidently a very large supply of template "isekai".

>>284091905
>Taiga doesn't decide to go fuck Kitamura on a whim.
She absolutely would if he didn't conveniently fall out of love with her to focus on some random class rep bitch. This is exactly what >>284088254 was getting at. For some reason, despite how neurotic this kind of person is at the idea of a woman cheating on them, they ignore actual cases of loose and unfaithful women if they're tsunderes, and push the blame on the other heroines instead (also see people calling the side heroines in ZnT homewreckers and sluts when Louise is the one who fawns over the bearded villain and the playboy in front of Saito). It's such a consistent example of cognitive dissonance that it can't be explained as anything but a militant dogma caused by being brainwashed.

>Anon makes a case that most of today romance is just wish-fulfillment sludge without any real developments or obstacles to beat
>Damn, he's got a point. I wonder if he's going to give examples of couples overcoming shit like different social standing, family pressure or arranged berothals, that would be-
>He proceeds to write paragraphs about NTR
Every single time.

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>>284084902
NTR is the cheapest of cheap heat. It for authors who are too much of a hack to come up with conflict in their romance so they default to the easiest of plot points

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>>284084902
>>284084907
tl;dr
your a faggot and you have AIDS

It's actually bizarre how just mentioning "NTR" gets so many vapids fired up.

notice how "realism": "IQ" or "intelligence" are recurring talking points with these cucks >>284092129

>>284092213
I guess that the modern audience just want fantasies fulfilled rather than reading interesting stories, then.
>>284092237
>She absolutely would if he didn't conveniently fall out of love with her to focus on some random class rep bitch.
I'm pretty sure he was in love with the rep bitch since the beginning, or do I misremember? It's not like Minori with Ryuji.
>also see people calling the side heroines in ZnT homewreckers and sluts when Louise is the one who fawns over the bearded villain and the playboy in front of Saito
Because Louise and Saito were not even a confirmed couple back then. Saito was still half hating her guts, only after she is about to leave he realizes that he genuinely loves her, same for Louise, even before the "he's a traitor!" twist.
ZnT is a 20 years old series tho. Let's see what that scene would've looked like if ZnT was released today and written by modern authors:
>dude arrives
>marries her
>fucks her
>Louise shows absolutely no sign of liking Saito at all
>he's revealed to be a traitor, Saito defeats him
>"TEEEHEE I GUESS YOU WERE RIGHT SAITO-KUN"
Capiche?
Modern audience hates this because modern authors are shit.
I guarantee you if you showed me any less popular romantic story with the themes you're referring to, like the MC having to actually earn the girl, I guarantee you it would just be smartly hidden whore woman moment shit with zero substance.

>>284092487
Meant to say "modern story" obviously.

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OP's opinion if the "role" is reversed.

>>284084902
1) You giving the dictionary definition of NTR is just arguing semantics. You know exactly what people mean when they say they don't want NTR in their series. Arguing semantics is typical low IQ behavior btw.
2) Literally every single piece of Western media nowadays has what you want: women being whores, men accepting every type of bullshit throwed at them, etc. a.k.a. wish fulfillment media for women. Shounen manga is the only wish fulfillment for men. But of course you want to take that from them too.

>>284084902
I like it when anon rants. It's an imageboard after all : you post publicly even if people will disagree.
> shallow, indulgent wish-fulfillment more than high quality writing
You're talking about very different consumer bases, both can coexist I think.
>one of these reasons is the long-standing negative stigma associated with "NTR"
I agree.
>ntr disambiguation
Hey I learned something today.

I think it's in part shared trauma. Some authors will do something horrible to a fictional relationship you cared about and you just can't forget it, you start being very wary of the pattern.
It's also something very important to men in general : appearance of virginity, purity, innocence.
I think your stance can be summarized as the following question : do you like it when fiction tried to realistically emulate real life? With a spectrum of answers.

>>284092546
>1) You giving the dictionary definition of NTR is just arguing semantics. You know exactly what people mean when they say they don't want NTR in their series. Arguing semantics is typical low IQ behavior btw.
You're trying to say getting the definition right is just "semantics" and "low IQ behavior", and misusing the term isn't low-IQ behavior?
You're retarded my dude.

>>284084938
That would be my answer too.

>>284092563
>I think it's in part shared trauma. Some authors
>Implying it was authors and not real life

>>284084902
>>284084907
>i am a cuckold. Now allow me to explain to you why this just the intelectual fetish. You see-
No.
Kill yourself cuck.

>>284092609
>real life
You think the people who consume this kind of media had any actual relationship irl? lol
It's 100% because authors just randomly add whore shit in their stories for no reason at all but le epic twist.

>>284092596
No it wouldn't.

>>284092577
NTA but you're like the tards who spend entire threads arguing about shit like ,,native isekai". Being obtuse on purpose is just further damaging your point and making people deliberately disagree with it, just because you're annoying.

>>284088689
retard

>>284092707
>g-ghh! im not that anon but you're fucking annoying!
Sure idiot. Next time get your basic facts right you laughable retard

>>284092722
kill yourself, retard

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>>284092722
Retard-kun...

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i read some ntr and never really understood the reactions of the cuckee. It doesn't come off like they ever loved the person being fucked at all, just had a mild interest in them maybe and are currently missing out. If someone fucked my oneitis they're either going to die on the spot, or if im bound ill disassociate from the situation and kill them later, either way it's not sexy. Cannot fathom passively sitting there and getting horny over that kind of trauma. The only way it makes sense if there's no real love there anyway.

But that's my $0.02 cents

>>284092750
Keep chimping out like the low-IQ idiot you are :)

>>284092707
nta but people who unironically use native isekai are dumb tho

>>284092707
nta but ntr

>>284092487
Kitamura loved Taiga when they first met, but she went full Palmtop Tiger mode on him, and later on, she went full thirsty dere mode for him, at which point Kitamura wasn’t paying attention to her anymore.

>>284084902
What's your opinion on Hare-Kon?

>>284085509
>>284085533
Most netorare isn't realistic in the first place, the characters are just exaggerated cartoons for the sake of drama and fetishism
Just like lolis never act any where close to real children

>>284092789
My point is that arguing about exact definition being wrong because of minute specifics, even though you 100% know what people are talking about is retarded and waste of time. Whether it's isekai, loli or in this case ntr.
>>284092798
kek

>>284092773
see>>284092750

>>284092895
>or in this case ntr.
The fact that you are too stupid to recognize NTR as a tertiary point in the OP says a lot about your low intelligence, anon.
Like a common idiot, you allow one term to consume your small brain.

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>OP

>>284093077
It's not tertiary point, literally half of his rant is about ntr and how it's ,,wrongly used".
I already said it here. >>284092247

You're a cuck buddy

>>284093223
he's a retard and a cuck, one of the worst combinations
probably gay as well

>>284093209
>It's not tertiary point
Yes it is, my illiterate moron.
>literally half of his rant is about ntr and how it's ,,wrongly used".
And yet, it's still tertiary, silly moron. Learn how to read and comprehend before exposing yourself as a fool on the internet.
"Wrongly used" is also illiteracy on your end. Used for what? I'm saying down-syndrome retards like you misinterpret what it actually means, and regularly apply it to anime and manga where it doesn't actually apply at all.
It's actually remarkable how dumb you are, anon.

>>284093298
Uh, akshully, Down Syndrome is a very specific medical condition that you're misusing, therefore your entire post is invalid.

>>284084902
>>284084907
Well, i don't really want a taste of reality in my chinese cartoons, i have real life for that.

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Incredible thread. I have nothing to add.

If watching the woman i love the most be ravaged and degraded by a strong and powerful man (preferably black) with his massive and virile cock (BBC) fulfilling her in ways I could never hope to (i have a tiny white penis) filling her to the brim with his mighty semen is wrong then i don't want to be right...

>>284093383
Apparently it's okay as long as you use proper spelling for the tag. That's all that I'm getting from the OP so far.

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I'm fine with the kind of stuff existing as long as the author doesn't pretend it's going to be a wholesome story.
Recently i enjoyed pic related, its about a woman who suspects her husband is fucking one of her friends.

>>284084902
So, you are a cuck, got it. If you are ever going to kill yourself over a 3dpdoid cheating on you, don't forget to livestream it.

I would like to see more manga with couples going trough real relationship challenges (not cheating).
Problem is most romance manga end when they get together.

>>284093599
You either end on confession, or you run long enough to see yourself become the 2nd Kaguya.

>>284086234
Cuck and NTR are not the same