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There are some old brands that are related to the origins of Lolita, but do not mainly produce Lolita clothing, nor really market themselves as Lolita brands (Milk, Jane Marple, Emily Temple Cute). Even so, Japanese normies think of these brands as Lolita, and Lolitas have worn their clothing since forever.

Now there are some newer brands that borrow from Lolita fashion, but are also not really Lolita (Honey Bunch, Amavel, Rosemarie Seoir... There are a lot). These brands are used for several different styles too, but generally they fall under the label girly fashion, which is as broad a term as it sounds (it's also used for normie fashion).

Misako and RinRin have both talked about labels for what could be a new style of ''not really Lolita but has Lolita elements/Lolita inspired/has the same feeling or spirit as Lolita''. Though mentioned in magazines a couple of times, they are not really defined or popular. These are soft Lolita and neo Lolita.

Then there's otome kei, which appears to be a term that's only used in the West nowadays. When I asked my SS about otome kei, she first thought I was talking about otome games, then she simply said it was girly fashion.

Tldr what are your thoughts on soft Lolita, neo Lolita and girly fashion?
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>>9439567
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Sorry if my English is weird.
>>9439569
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>>9439570
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This all sounds really made up and like we're splitting extreme hairs to give everything a label. The picture looks like basic bitch jfashion. Why does everything need a category?
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>>9439573
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>>9439576
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>>9439574
We can just not use a name and not do anything but this is a place for discussion and inspiration.
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>>9439574
>Why does everything need a category?
I agree with you but this one has been around for awhile.

I thought Misako was the one who came up with it too.
If you hate sub categories, then maybe you're just not into the fashion as much like other people are.
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This is just otome?
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It makes sense to me that Jfashion on a whole is becoming more casual. For one thing if a brand doesn't commit to a certain style, they can attract a variety of customers. The clothes can work for lolita, or a lolita could wear them casually, but someone who does larme or neo gyaru or princess of the anime club or whatever could wear it because it's generally cutesy fashion. Plus, with the toning down of jfash in general (not that full lolita isn't still a thing, but that seems to have been the trend) it makes a lot of sense.
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I like the term soft lolita for what Westerners call otome and the lolita inspired brands you mentioned. I also like the name neo lolita for it but Rinrin Doll was using it for pic related which looks nothing like lolita and looks closer to pastel goth if anything. I doubt the Western community will use the term soft lolita though, they'll just keep calling it otome
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I would really like to see/read the Leur Getter interview from Omnia Vanitas since I heard the designer was asked about otome but I can't find it anywhere
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>>9439598
she literally said in her post that otome is a term nobody in Japan uses these days, learn to read. We had the exact same argument in two other threads lately. >>9432587 >>9432593
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>>9439603
I don't really see it either, but technically, if I try really hard, the lolita inspiration could be the unicorn print, ruffles, hime haircut and doll text (a lot of Japanese lolitas say they want to look like a doll, I think Westerners don't do that because they don't want to be mistaken for living doll)
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>I've never heard of this
>It sounds made up
Suppose you've never bought an issue of KERA magazine. It's in every issue nowadays.
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other than that her accessory is AP, I don't really see it here either. Maybe because it's very feminine?
>>9439609
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>>9439567
Personally, I like a lot of the stuff that brands the west call otome put out (Jane Marple, Milk, ETC). Some of it I find boring or very normie but I own a few MILK and ETC pieces and would own a lot of JM if it wasn't so pricey. But as for all the neo lolita/soft lolita/soft sister/whatever girly brands that are doing a lot of larme these days, I really dislike them. When you tone down lolita too much, it loses the confrontational element that made it appeal to me over normie fashion and all the sexy yet childish and girly larme collections just look like Japanese nymphet to me, particularly RoseMarie Seoir's ero thing and the amount of Katie etc spreads inspired by films like Lolita or Pretty Baby. I don't want this sort of ageplay-ish stuff being lumped in with lolita because we share some common details.
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>>9439620
>I don't want this sort of ageplay-ish stuff being lumped in with lolita because we share some common details.
I feel like this is already happening a little bit with Misako liking these brands and some of them featured in Eternita.
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>>9439605
Oh my god, I'd love to read that too. I hope some anon comes through for us.

In response to this thread in general, I actually like the term "soft lolita" better than otome, because I mix a lot of pure lolita brands with these other brands (JM, ETC and LG in particular)
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>>9439631
I asked one of the organisers (before the event) and she said it would be filmed but I can't even find any useful interview videos from their previous events either. Maybe I'm just shit at searching tough.

I like both terms but I'm under the impression otome has a more specific look and is an outdated term, With soft lolita I feel like it can be anything I want it to be, maybe it can be like what used to be posted on daily ala mode.
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>>9439603
lailah had literally one lolita coord when she lived in California, and from then on out was dressed by lolita brands. I don't trust her opinions on lolita at all. Or value them.
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>>9439603
This is Neo Nymphet to me. I think one big misconception on this board is that Japanese brands love to use 'lolita' for styles that are more like inspired by the film/book, hence girly, frilly and slightly suggestive look and feel (also see the fetishy elements in larme). It's evident in lots of brand releases as it's been going on for years and there were so many items with the word lolita plastered on.

They're definitely notntalking about the Lolita fashion that we're looking at. So Rin Rins Neo Lolita is in fact nothing to do with traditional Lolita fashion or silhouette.
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>>9439674
Okay look, I'm too ignorant about this to disagree but consider >>9439569 is from Larme, and >>9439570 is from Eternita, a lolita magazine. Here Misako talks about soft Lolita and Larme together: https://matcha-jp.com/en/280

This is also interesting tough it's just her opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX0kR58dzoI

If you google there are a lot more places where they put Larme, neo Lolita and Lolita together like here https://matome.naver.jp/odai/2142201148680556701
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>>9439574
>Why does everything need a category?
I get that it's annoying but at the end of the day it does make it easier to share, particularly on social media
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>>9439657
>lailah
Who? Was this autocorrected?
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>>9439729
she's just being extra lol, rinrin used to be angelic lailah on lj
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>>9439567
Milk always struck me as slightly off out of the older brands, probably because their stylization looks less like lolita and more girly/larme to me. I prefer JM/ETC/LG because they've maintained a more lolita-inspired look where the aim isn't to look nearly as coquettish as larme does.
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>>9439766
Milk is definitely still "soft lolita" or "otome". It is more in the vein of what AP is to lolita, using a lot of brighter colors, cute/sweet/fruit prints, and heavy retro influence.
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>>9439766
MILK does a lot more normie clothes than the other brands (e.g. T-shirts and stuff rather than just dresses), but it's not got that coquettish feel larme brands do IMO. It is slightly different, since they've been around since the 70s (ETC only started in the late 90s) and have that whole MILKBOY line and other stuff going on, but I don't think they belong with larme.
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>>9439816
They are often featured in Larme, things that are in Larme often are Larme
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>>9439822
but they were around for 40 years before larme even existed and do a lot of other stuff as well, they're a girly fashion brand not a larme-specific brand
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>>9439766
MILK was the original girly Harajuku brand - designers from JM and Shirley Temple (that later added ETC) originally came from MILK. It was worn by a lot of idols/actresses.
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>>9439816
70s-80s MILK
Original Sugary Carnival 1988
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Milk has a lot of different styles of clothes. Some of them fit with Larme, but most of them don't. So I wouldn't call them a Larme brand at all. They're just responding to changing trends by offering some options that appeal beyond their core group of customers.
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>>9439966
I'm more concerned about what's going on in that 90s picture. Space-age mermaids?
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>>9439791
There's something that just doesn't look as good or as "otome" to me with their colors, print proportions, cut styles and material usage in comparison to the brands I mentioned.

It's likely I have a very narrow definition of what I prefer as a silhouette for that particular style.

>>9439816
>>9439944
Didn't know that! And definitely appreciate the history lesson. I will readily admit that I'm not nearly as familiar with the cues and styles of Larme, was primarily commenting on the posted pictures in this thread so I stand corrected.
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>>9439603
>>9439674
Yeah, Rinrin's "neo lolita" always struck me as being more inspired by the Kubrick film than by Kamikaze Girls, if you know what I mean.
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>>9440793
Considering that the brand who coined the term Neo Lolita is Titty & Co which is inpired by the book Lolita, it should be obvious that it's just a term for nymphet fashion.
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>>9440795
That's not what rinrin and misako say tough
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>>9440823
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>>9440827
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Otome-kei is just something westerners made up. Soft lolita is a term that Aoki Misako made up but I think it's a little better at describing what the fashion is, a toned-down more "adult"/casual lolita (like Leur Getter etc). Of course otome-kei people will come to this thread and say B-B-BUT THOSE BRANDS DON'T DESCRIBE THEMSELVES AS LOLITA!! but that doesn't really matter, it's just marketing... lolita is kind of a dying/ultra-niche fashion from a Japanese perspective and they are trying to avoid being associated with chuu2/kera-stylefashion.
Neo-lolita seems to be all over the place but I do enjoy people attempting to experiment with lolita items.
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>>9440805
They can say a lot when the day is long, doesn't change the fact which should be obvious when you google when the term was first used and that was Titty & Co's spring/summer 2014 collection.
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>>9440831
Yeah and actually there are more brands that lolitas wear but don't describe themselves as lolita on their website, like Excentrique, yet nobody questions that. I don't really care about labels but I would love to have a tag to find experimental or lolita-inspired coords. The problem with neo lolita is that it will be mixed up with nymphet but with otome you get a lot of RPG results.
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Most of the shit here just looks like himekaji or nowadays gyaru.
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>>9440836
>>9440839
Did you read the interview or watch the video?
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>>9439610
>Kera
>It's in every issue nowadays.
You know that Kera stopped publishing?
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>>9440841
And she can say Shotacon is a new term for casual boystyle, still doesn't make it true.
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It's totally not nymphet fashion, guyz!
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>>9440844
Shotacon has existed for a long time. Neololita is pretty much undefined at this point. Milk also used it btw.
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>>9440852
The term has been existing in english for a long time already, it is used in articles about the book since the early 00s and is also used in the book Chasing Lolita quite a lot.
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>>9440859
That's not related to fashion in Japan, people started using neo lolita at the same time as neo gyaru etc.
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>>9440864
Doesn't change the fact that it's nymphet fashion in Japan with all the book references.
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>>9440805
Misako never called her style Neo lolita though, right? She called it Soft lolita and it looks pretty much like what we in the west would call otome. Rinrin's Neo lolita on the other hand is clearly nymphet inspired.

>>9440844
>shotacon for boystyle
pig disgusting most embarrassing behaviour
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It might be just me, but I refuse the term neo-lolita to be a thing. It just... doesn't look lolita to me.
Maybe as a larme or even nymphet thing, I understand.

With soft lolita... well okay. Maybe we were wrong all this time and called this soft lolita thing "otome kei". But I thought otome kei also included the use of shorts? I see rarely any western attempt at otome kei with shorts. So maybe yeah, we should call it "soft lolita". This already happened with the term kodona and boystyle. But... the thought of girls "maturing out of lolita" to wear something that doesn't resemble it that much really scares me though. I wish every lolita was like momoko and wanted to die in a btssb dress, but reality is harsh.
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Bumping some previously called otome kei outfits from google so somebody can pin point the differences. This just looks otona kawaii
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>>9440943
>I wish every lolita was like momoko and wanted to die in a btssb dress
Not everyone wants this, true, but some of us do. I've picked out the coord I want to be buried in, too.
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>>9440952
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>>9440954
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>>9440955
So far I see some color and pattern differences, but might be because of that time's fashion tendencies
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>>9440958
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>>9440961
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>>9440963
This looks like it overlaps with another fashion too, idk.
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>>9440965
and just something that I found on google
"
Otome (Japanese for Maiden and also called Otome Kei) is a Japanse fashion style that focuses on looking girly and maidenly. The style was popularized in the 70's and has much overlap with Lolita and is one of the styles in which Lolita has its roots. Many Otome brands release dresses that can double as Lolita dresses, and many Otome coordinates are often mistaken for Casual Lolita, due to their similar aesthetic with less emphasis on accessories and extreme amounts of details."

how true is this?
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>>9440943
I do kind of want to be buried in IW but for daily life, full on lolita can be really inconvenient. I'd have to sacrifice other activities if I wanted to wear lolita every day and it's so much more convenient to wear comfy ETC during those times instead. If anything, "otome" has replaced my normie/daily wardrobe whereas lolita is special weekend wear.
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>>9440968
Very true, "Otome Culture" was a pretty big thing back in the day and there are quite a lot of magazines delicated to Otome but the term simply died out.

> Although there isn’t enough time for us to examine the contents of these magazines specifically, Masuko Honda, the so-called expert on “otome theory” says that, “otome culture” deals with, first of all, “the color, the smell, and sound”. In other words, girls were moved by the colors, smells, and sounds described in the novels they read. Additionally, visual images, like “bows and ruffles”, were symbols of “otome culture”, and modern girls seem to prefer things that are frilly like bows and ruffles.

From https://tokyogirlsupdate.com/tag/kawaii-2-0 , they had a shitton of articles about how "girl's culture" (otome) helped kawaii culture become a thing. Pic related was where the term Otome Kei did origin from.
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>>9440968
I think otome is the old term for what is now girly fashion
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>>9440968
>>9440989
>>9440992
so is otome a feel? what is otome and what is soft lolita? someone please elaborate
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>>9440997
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2002/05/24/language/japanese-women-staying-in-touch-with-their-inner-virgin/#.WPfHFqKkLcs
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I like casual girly fashion, but I definetly prefer Lolita because the look of a complete, true Lolita coordinate is irreplaceable to me. I also prefer how Lolita is more established and it's widely known what is and isn't Lolita.

It's more difficult to tell what is and isn't "girly" or "otome" fashion because these terms are used more loosely, there isn't really a set name or definition for these style.
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>>9439603
I thought she said neo lolita was just whatever nice clothing lolitas wear outside of the fashion, but incorporating similar items?
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>>9441085
Yes. If you look at it that way, her definition is like Misako's soft Lolita, you can just see their difference in taste really clearly.
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>>9440842
They're going to be published digitally.

>>9440805
What they call their own personal style isn't a stand-alone fashion category
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>>9440842
Plus it wasn't because they weren't popular. It was troubles with the publisher.
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>>9439567
I like otome/soft lolita because it fills a gap in my life that lolita doesn't - it's girly and feminine yet toned down enough to wear more often, and it includes colourful, retro, 50s and 60s pop influences that I like but don't look good in lolita.

I don't like neo-lolita, and lolitesque larme brands because the stuff that they do that lolita doesn't (sexy or edgier looks, different silhouettes) isn't stuff that I actually like.
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>>9439657
>using her name from LJ days
Aren't we a special snowflake
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>>9441178

Eh, idunno. Misako seems to keep the general silhoutte for lolita, when she does it it looks more like casual lolita, lolita without petticoat, still mostly lolita but with less stiffness, frills and formality of full lolita.

Going by >>9441085 the ratio seems reversed? Like "anything goes" since a lolita can wear anything outside of lolita, and "incorporating similar items" seems reduced to a random cutesy theme instead of keeping the silhoutte.
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some more japanese nymphet stuff
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>>9443336
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RinRin: ''Neo Lolita as a genre doesn’t yet exist, but I may be subconsciously becoming something like that already. I like to mix up my style with Harajuku fashion, and I don’t feel I need to live my life exactly according to the rules of Lolita. There would still be a difference between Lolita and “Kawaii”-style though, for example we have a way of doing our eyemakeup which is more decorative, and a hime haircut is a must for me. The most important thing to be a Lolita among the Harajuku styles though, is to think of yourself as one. It would be great to see a subculture of cool neo lolitas appear from this.''
>>9443355
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>>9443359
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>>9443360
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>>9440836
Pic related is from 2007.
>>9443362
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>>9443365
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>>9443367
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>>9443368
Misako: ''I often think it is difficult to wear Lolita fashion because my other job is nursing. So I can’t wear Lolita clothes when I work as a nurse, and I also don't have enough time to complete my ideal Lolita fashion collection. Although, I know that there are a number of girls who want to enjoy Lolita fashion 365 days a year, so I suggested the girlie and romantic “Soft Lolita”, which is a more casual Lolita fashion option. A good example of this is can be seen in “LARME”, the fashion magazine which is very popular among young girls who love kawaii. “LARME” shows many “Soft Lolita” styles.''
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>>9443371
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>>9443365
And the first books about Neo-Lolita in a nymphet fashion connection are from the 90s, try again.
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>>9443359
>The most important thing to be a Lolita among the Harajuku styles though, is to think of yourself as one.
And this is how itas are born.
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>>9443376
I don't actually care about who used it first and what bad connotations lolita-related words have, I just want something to call my daily lolita-inspired fashion so I can easily find inspiration and people to follow on insta
>>9443373
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>>9443336
The "before" coords here are better. The "after"s are just a mess.
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>>9443393
I totally agree but it's from kera and they usually look so random or busy. I think the point is to show how to 'lolify' your normal clothes.
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>>9443393
Definitely, the after with the star bag and glitter party shoes isn't too bad but the giant tulle bow wrecks an otherwise cute outfit.
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>>9443373
What dress is she wearing?
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>>9439816
>have that whole MILKBOY line and other stuff going on
I never really understood what milkboy was for, I think it's supposed to be a men's line but when you search it on .jp sites it seems to be mostly worn by women.
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>>9443362
So cute! I wish it was possible to wear a cute apron or pinafore outside without people making a big fuss about it.
>do u work at a bakery
>shouldn't u b in the kitchen lololol
>omg r they filming Master Chef here??
>hey Alice!!!!
It's somehow more aggravating than the comments I get in full on lolita. It's just a nice way to protect my clothes when I'm doing messy stuff! Leave me alone!

>>9443365
Weird, these look like regular ol' lolita to me.
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>>9443423
It helps if your apron is the same colour as your dress or skirt, anyway don't let others stop you from wearing what you want
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>>9443362
This girl always posts her JM coords in the lolita tag, not sure if efame hungry or if she really thinks pic related is lolita
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>>9443419
I always assumed MILBOY was kawaii fashion in masculine silhouettes but apparently they released a lot of "punk" stuff in the 90s, including multiple shirts with swastikas on:
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x482835907
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u140698537

What the fuck has this got to do with MILK's aesthetic?
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>>9443378
>Even when wearing a jersey, a princess is a princess.
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>>9443431
Milk aesthetic is basically a more kawaii version of their interpretation of British youth fashion.
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>Aoki: The one-piece dress I’m wearing is from a brand called Leur Getter. It’s one of the more casual and easy-to-wear Lolita fashion brands, and I recommend it highly as everyday-wear.
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>>9443382
that looks too ita. Are you sure you want to follow a bunch of itas on instagram?
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why do we all care so much about what a stupid and ugly ass californian girl (aka rinrin) says is neo lolita? none of that shit reminds me of lolita.
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>>9443399
It looks more like making your lolita clothes look more normal but failing at it, just like how a ugly generic tank top gets put over the jsk at the right one.
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>>9443497
>lolita from 2009 is wearing milky planet
>milky planet wasn't even released until 2010
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>>9443428
This is pretty cute desu I wouldn't mind seeing stuff like this in my lolita feed.

>>9443488
I love LG but feel like it's too expensive for what you get, and kinda too expensive for daily wear. It's definitely easier to wear casually but I guess I'm too much of a poorfag to wear >$250 dresses while running errands. My LG dresses are just as treasured and precious, if not more, than most of my "hard lolita" dresses.
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>>9439966
This is amazing to see, thanks anon

>>9440005
Exactly, anon. This is how businesses survive and thrive over time. And considering they've already been around for well over 40 years, it is shouldn't be surprising that they're savvy to market needs.

Milk is weirdly under appreciated in the west I think
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>>9443511
Did you look at the same picture? They're not wearing lolita clothing, they're adding lolita accessories
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>>9440005
You can say the same things about other ''larme brands''
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>>9443521
I agree. It's getting easier to find LG on the second hand market at least.
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>>9439578
I have a mighty need for this dress.
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>>9443382
>I just want something to call my daily lolita-inspired fashion so I can easily find inspiration and people to follow on insta
same, I can't decide between girly fashion and otona alice tough
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>>9443557
I don't think tank tops count as lolita.
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>>9444613
that's literally what it says tough, perhaps not the tank top specifically




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